The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.
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Islam obliges Muslims to fast just as Jesus and the prophets did during their tenure in the world:
1. Matthew 4:2 “And when he (Jesus) had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry”.
2. Exodus 34: 28 “And he (Moses) was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water”.
3. Matthew 6:16 “Moreover when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, with a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward”
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1. Luke 24:36 “Now as they said these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you”.
2. John 20:19 “Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you”.
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posted
BELIEF IN THE ONENESS OF GOD (ALLAH): Jesus was very explicit in his words about the “Unity of God” instead of the “Holy Trinity” which he never said nor preached in his lifetime:
1. Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you Satan! it is written:” you shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve”.
2. Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him. “The first of all the commandments is: Hear O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one”.
3. Isiah 43:10-11 “Before me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.”
4. John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and of Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.
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Ibn 'Umar reports that Allah's Messenger said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):
1-To testify that none has the right to be worshiped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Messenger. 2-To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly. 3-To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) . 4-To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca) 5-To observe fast during the month of Ramadan. [Bukhari]
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الله يخليك، انت مش دورك إنك تخلى كل الناس فى المنتدى ده يسلموا، كل واحد بيحب دينة و ذى ما أنت بتحب دينك، فحاول تحترم حرية و عقيدة الأخرين، بلاش بقى نلافيهم بيقولوا عليك إرهابى...... فى أجانب هنا مخهم ضيق و بيفسروا الحاجات دى غلط
إحترم إن فى أديان تانيه هنا غير الإسلام و الكلام ده بيضايقهم ذى ما بيضايقك لما حد مش بيحترم دينك
إنت خليك مسلم كويس و ركز فى نفسك و خلاس
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
actually i was enjoying his post, and diddnt think he was a terrorist...oops sorry should i have written that in arabic??????
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quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: actually i was enjoying his post, and diddnt think he was a terrorist...oops sorry should i have written that in arabic??????
No no... I didnt tell him he's a terrorist at all... But I was just giving him an advice to be careful with what he says sometimes in religion or even in politics that might present him to non-arabic speakers as as a fanatic. Becuase we the arabic speakers as well as a few more non-arabic speakers here find him funny. But the rest don't because they take his posts too seriously. And Batman doesnt want to be taken seriously all the time
I enjoy his posts too... he's hilarious
And forgot to translate this too: that since he's aware that we have people here with differnet religions.... He should be resperctful of their religions.... they love their religions as much as he loves his.... & It is not his duty to make them all believe in Islam....... That's the part when it doesnt get hilarious or funny or sarcastic
we just dont want non muslims to think we are intolerant.... it's a bad image
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Muslimman, I can't follow this thread since part of it is in Arabic. Lady is asking a question, a huge improvement since in another thread she was just stating both muslims and christians the factual 'truth' about the way they should take up their subsequent religons. If you mean the new converts I consider you are right about the underlying insecurities, to me that goes for some newly converts in any religion. Narrowmindedness and exclusion is a state of mind and not a very religious or faithfull attitude.
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Are you a newly convert Lady? We like to have people come in categories you know!:-) But newly converted or just ignorant about others in the world it will all boil down to the same thing, misunderstandings and quarrels and war eventually. Unless we can have some humor and sarcasm about it it is hard to swallow.
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yes, i meant narrowmindedness and new type of islam... that suits to ppl who are changing religion not because of Allah but because of other reasons... its very hard to change sbs faith... its a longterm process... especially when someone was growing up among christians or jews or other religions... even if he/she didnt fully agree with his/her religion.... its still not a piece of cake to change it to another one, specially islam... its hard work, of course some of them know that its worth to do this, but still the background, families, ways of thinking and habits are not making it easier... i dont want to say that all converted muslims are not real muslims - NO. Its much harder for them to be a muslim, for sure. And they have much more problems in finding good sources and examples to follow up than muslims from birth who are very often too lazy to look around ...
on the other hand new converts they have open minds for new religion, without cultural influences like in Egypt or other Arab countries... anyhow i appreciate every person's effort to know islam and understand it...
but pls first try to understand yourselves... and why you want to change your religion? and this is not a simple question believe me. and its not enought sometimes to ask once or ten times and get same answer from inside.... its the matter of being honest to yourself and God... HONEST up to pain.
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quote:Originally posted by Lady from the water: i think its the duty of all the muslims to let others believe in islam,no?
Water lady, I don't think so.... I think that every muslim has a duty towards his/ her self to improve & be a better person or a better muslim..... than to make others want to convert but be a bad person/ muslim yourself
Start with yourself & if you are like a prophet (which is impossible) then think about doing it
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Onfortunately, the answer to Lady's question should be 'yes'.
Even Al-Azhar (from a textbook in 1999) teaches its students that Islam should be forced on people by djihad unless they are offered the message and accept it by peacefull means, believers of monotheistic faiths could refrain from converting by paying taxes (converting them was frowned upon since it would lower the income of the religious state). Djihad is a religious duty to a society not to an individual,unless there is only an individual to rely upon.
In an article by an Egyptian Dutch she gives two arguments. The historical djihad of Islam over the arabic peninsula and the world is learned in all arabic schools to children with facts and figures in history to be proud of.
Second (from lectures and books from Bassam Tibi a Syrian professor in international relations in Germany) all major classical Shia and Sunni judicial schools refer to this obligation. Even Al-Ghazali, who bridged between sufism and mainstream Islam is quoted likewise. All the texts are drawn from Islamic schoolers around the turn of the year 1000. And mentioned by others like Ibn Khaldoun in the 15th century.
The idea is in no way an Islamist or extremist idea but has been teached to mainstream believers in all countries.
There are only some intellectuals, merely in the 20th century who opposed of it, of which some were openly denouncing their faith.
Mahmoud Taha from Sudan, a reformist and writer was killed over his rejection of this Djihad. Al-Azhar proclaimed him a kafir and someone did the job. Taha suggested that only the quaranic texts from the first period in Mekka should be recognised als central to Islam, that would shut up these djihadists.
Bassam Tibi advises all muslims in the west to embrace western culture, these sort of orthodoxe doctrines are a danger to an open society.
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posted
Well, in fact, the answer to Lady's question should differ to whom is responding this. In the end you are personally responsible to answer this to yourself, to God, to anyone.
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posted
The fact that westerners like to do their Shahada at Al-Azhar isn't of much help either.
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: Well, in fact, the answer to Lady's question should differ to whom is responding this. In the end you are personally responsible to answer this to yourself, to God, to anyone.
isnt like that in quran that jihad should start from your own person before you start to repair and show others the proper way?
i think that all matured ppl on the world know what is responsibility for their actions, words and feelings. they dont need to have a backup like religion to behave in proper way and respect others around. Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: Onfortunately, the answer to Lady's question should be 'yes'.
Even Al-Azhar (from a textbook in 1999) teaches its students that Islam should be forced on people by djihad unless they are offered the message and accept it by peacefull means, believers of monotheistic faiths could refrain from converting by paying taxes (converting them was frowned upon since it would lower the income of the religious state). Djihad is a religious duty to a society not to an individual,unless there is only an individual to rely upon.
In an article by an Egyptian Dutch she gives two arguments. The historical djihad of Islam over the arabic peninsula and the world is learned in all arabic schools to children with facts and figures in history to be proud of.
Second (from lectures and books from Bassam Tibi a Syrian professor in international relations in Germany) all major classical Shia and Sunni judicial schools refer to this obligation. Even Al-Ghazali, who bridged between sufism and mainstream Islam is quoted likewise. All the texts are drawn from Islamic schoolers around the turn of the year 1000. And mentioned by others like Ibn Khaldoun in the 15th century.
The idea is in no way an Islamist or extremist idea but has been teached to mainstream believers in all countries.
There are only some intellectuals, merely in the 20th century who opposed of it, of which some were openly denouncing their faith.
Mahmoud Taha from Sudan, a reformist and writer was killed over his rejection of this Djihad. Al-Azhar proclaimed him a kafir and someone did the job. Taha suggested that only the quaranic texts from the first period in Mekka should be recognised als central to Islam, that would shut up these djihadists.
Bassam Tibi advises all muslims in the west to embrace western culture, these sort of orthodoxe doctrines are a danger to an open society.
Jihad Explained
In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his (1) popularity with his constituents and so on. The term strive or struggle may be used for/by Muslims as well as non-Muslims; for example, Allah, the One and Only True God says in the Qur'an:
"We have enjoined on people kindness to parents; but if they STRIVE (JAHADAKA) to make you ascribe partners with Me that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not..." (29:8; also see 31:15)
In the above two verses of the Qur'an , it is non-Muslim parents who strive (jahadaka) to convert their Muslim child back to their religion.
In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is UNHOLY to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable. If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." WE CHALLENGE any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda. This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.
For Muslims the term JIHAD is applied to all forms of STRIVING and has developed some special meanings over time. The sources of this development are the Qur'an (the Word of God revealed to Prophet Muhammad (S) [(S) denotes Sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam, meaning peace and blessings of Allah be upon him]. The Qur'an and the Hadith use the word "jihad" in several different contexts which are given below:
1. RECOGNIZING THE CREATOR AND LOVING HIM MOST:
It is human nature to love what is seen with the eyes and felt with the senses more than the UNSEEN REALITY. The Creator of the Universe and the One God is Allah. He is the Unseen Reality which we tend to ignore and not recognize. The Qur'an addresses those who claim to be believers:
"O you who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for protectors if they love disbelief over belief; whoever of you takes them for protectors, such are wrong-doers. Say: if your fathers, and your children, and your brethren, and your spouses, and your tribe, and the wealth you have acquired, and business for which you fear shrinkage, and houses you are pleased with are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and STRIVING in His way: then wait till Allah brings His command to pass. Allah does not guide disobedient folk." (9:23, 24)
It is indeed a struggle to put Allah ahead of our loved ones, our wealth, our worldly ambitions and our own lives. Especially for a non-Muslim who embraces Islam, it may be a tough struggle due to the opposition of his family, peers and society.
2. RESISTING PRESSURE OF PARENTS, PEERS, AND SOCIETY:
Once a person has made up his mind to put the Creator of the Universe above all else, he often comes under intense pressures. It is not easy to resist such pressures and STRIVE to maintain dedication and love of Allah over all else. A person who has turned to Islam from another religion may be subjected to pressures designed to turn him back to the religion of the family. We read in the Qur'an:
"So obey not the rejecters of faith, but strive (jahidhum) against them by it (the Qur'an) with a great endeavor." (25:52)
3. STAYING ON THE STRAIGHT PATH STEADFASTLY:
Allah says in the Qur'an:
"And STRIVE (JADIHU) for Allah with the endeavor (JIHADIHI) which is His right. He has chosen you and has not laid upon you in the DEEN (religion) any hardship..." (22:78)
"And whosoever STRIVES (JAHADA), STRIVES (YUJAHIDU) only for himself, for lo! Allah is altogether independent of the universe." (29:6)
As for those who strive and struggle to live as true Muslims whose lives are made difficult due to persecution by their opponents, they are advised to migrate to a more peaceful and tolerant land and continue with their struggle in the cause of Allah. Allah says in the Qur'an:
"Lo! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wronged themselves, (the angels) will ask: 'In what you were engaged?' They will way: 'We were oppressed in the land.' (The angels) will say: 'Was not Allah's earth spacious that you could have migrated therein?'" (4:97)
"Lo! Those who believe, and those who emigrate (to escape persecution) and STRIVE (JAHADU) in the way of Allah, these have hope of Allah's mercy..." (2:218)
Allah tests the believers in their faith and their steadfastness:
"Or did you think that you would enter Paradise while yet Allah knows not those of you who really STRIVE (JAHADU), nor knows those (of you) who are steadfast." (3:142)
"And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and fruits; but give tidings to the steadfast." (2:155)
We find that the Prophet Muhammad (S) and his clan were boycotted socially and economically for three years to force him to stop his message and compromise with the pagans but he resisted and realized a moral victory (2).
4. STRIVING FOR RIGHTEOUS DEEDS:
Allah declares in the Qur'an:
"As for those who STRIVE (JAHADU) in Us (the cause of Allah), We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good doers." (29:69)
When we are faceD with two competing interests, it becomes jihad to choose the right one, as the following Hadith exemplify:
"Aisha, wife of the Prophet (S) asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, we see jihad as the best of deeds, so shouldn't we join it?' He replied, 'But the best of jihad is a perfect Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah).'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #2784)
At another occasion, a man asked the Prophet Muhammad (S):
"'Should I join the jihad?' He asked, 'Do you have parents?' The man said, 'Yes!' The Prophet (S) said, 'Then strive by serving them!'" (Sahih Al-Bukhari #5972)
Yet another man asked the Messenger of Allah (S):
"'What kind of jihad is better?' He replied, 'A word of truth in front of an oppressive ruler!'" (Sunan Al-Nasa'i #4209)
The Messenger of Allah (S) said: "...the MUJAHID (one who carries out jihad) is he who STRIVES against himself for the sake of Allah, and the MUHAJIR (one who emigrates) is he who abandons evil deeds and sin." (Sahih Ibn Hibban #4862)
5. HAVING COURAGE AND STEADFASTNESS TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM:
The Qur'an narrates the experiences of a large number of Prophets and good people who suffered a great deal trying to convey the message of Allah to mankind. For examples, see the Qur'an 26:1-190, 36:13-32. In the Qur'an, Allah specifically praises those who strive to convey His message:
"Who is better in speech than one who calls (other people) to Allah, works righteous, and declares that he is from the Muslims." (41:33)
Under adverse conditions it takes great courage to remain a Muslim, declare oneself to be a Muslim and call others to Islam. We read in the Qur'an:
"The (true) believers are only those who believe in Allah and his messenger and afterward doubt not, but STRIVE with their wealth and their selves for the cause of Allah. Such are the truthful." (49:15)
6. DEFENDING ISLAM AND THE COMMUNITY:
Allah declares in the Qur'an:
"To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'..." (22:39-40)
The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self-defense and for the protection of family and property. The early Muslims fought many battles against their enemies under the leadership of the Prophet Muhammad (S) or his representatives. For example, when the pagans of Quraysh brought armies against Prophet Muhammad (S), the Muslims fought to defend their faith and community (3). The Qur'an adds:
"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ...And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." (2:190, 193)
7. HELPING ALLIED PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT BE MUSLIM:
In the late period of the Prophet Muhammad's (S) life, the tribe of Banu Khuza'ah became his ally. They were living near Makkah which was under the rule of the pagan Quraysh, Prophet Muhammad's (S) own tribe. The tribe of Banu Bakr, an ally of Quraysh, with the help of some elements of Quraysh, attacked Banu Khuza'ah invoked the treaty and demanded Prophet Muhammad (S) to come to their help and punish Quraysh. The Prophet Muhammad (S) organized a campaign against Quraysh of Makkah which resulted in the conquest of Makkah which occurred without any battle (4).
8. BANISHING THOSE WHO ACT TREACHEROUSLY:
Allah orders the Muslims in the Qur'an:
"If you fear treachery from any group, throw back (their treaty) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms. Lo! Allah loves not the treacherous." (8:58)
Prophet Muhammad (S) undertook a number of armed campaigns to remove treacherous people from power and their lodgings. He had entered into pacts with several Jewish tribes, however, some of them proved themselves treacherous. Prophet Muhammad (S) launched armed campaigns against these tribes, defeated and exiled them from Medina and its surroundings (5).
9. DEFENDING THROUGH PREEMPTIVE STRIKES:
Indeed, it is difficult to mobilize people to fight when they see no invaders in their territory; however, those who are charged with responsibility see dangers ahead of time and must provide leadership. The Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (S), had the responsibility to protect his people and the religion he established in Arabia. Whenever he received intelligence reports about enemies gathering near his borders he carried out preemptive strikes, broke their power and dispersed them (6). Allah ordered Muslims in the Qur'an:
"Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it may happen that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. And Allah knows and you know not." (2:216)
10. GAINING FREEDOM TO INFORM, EDUCATE AND CONVEY THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM IN AN OPEN AND FREE ENVIRONMENT:
Allah declares in the Qur'an:
"They ask you (Muhammad) concerning fighting in the Sacred Month. Say, 'Fighting therein is a grave (offense) but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its inhabitants. Persecution is worse than killing. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith, if they can..." (2:217)
"And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) fight back." (42:39)
To gain this freedom, Prophet Muhammad (S) said:
"STRIVE (JAHIDU) against the disbelievers with your hands and tongues." (Sahih Ibn Hibban #4708)
The life of the Prophet Muhammad (S) was full of STRIVING to gain the freedom to inform and convey the message of Islam. During his stay in Makkah he used non-violent methods and after the establishment of his government in Madinah, by the permission of Allah, he used armed struggle against his enemies whenever he found it inevitable.
11. FREEING PEOPLE FROM TYRANNY:
Allah admonishes Muslims in the Qur'an:
"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? - Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You, one who will protect; and raise for us from You, one who will help.'" (4:75)
The mission of the Prophet Muhammad (S) was to free people from tyranny and exploitation by oppressive systems. Once free, individuals in the society were then free to chose Islam or not. Prophet Muhammad's (S) successors continued in his footsteps and went to help oppressed people. For example, after the repeated call by the oppressed people of Spain to the Muslims for help, Spain was liberated by Muslim forces and the tyrant rulers removed. After the conquest of Syria and Iraq by the Muslims, the Christian population of Hims reportedly said to the Muslims:
"We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny under which we have been living." (7)
The defeated rulers of Syria were Roman Christians, and Iraq was ruled by Zoarastrian Persians.
WHAT SHOULD MUSLIMS DO WHEN THEY ARE VICTORIOUS?
Muslims should remove tyranny, treachery, bigotry, and ignorance and replace them with justice and equity. We should provide truthful knowledge and free people from the bondage of 'associationism' (SHIRK, or multiple gods), prejudice, superstition and mythology. Muslims remove immorality, fear, crime, exploitation and replace them with divine morality, peace and education. The Qur'an declares:
"Lo! Allah commands you that you restore deposits to their owners, and if you judge between mankind that you judge justly. Lo! It is proper that Allah admonishes you. Lo! Allah is ever Hearer, Seer." (4:58)
"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah's witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to Piety and fear Allah. And Allah is well acquainted with all that you do." (5:8)
"And of those whom We have created there is a nation who guides with the Truth and establishes justice with it." (7:181)
"Lo! Allah enjoins justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbids lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorts you in order that you may take heed." (16:90)
"Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish prescribed prayers (SALAH) and pay the poor-due (ZAKAH) and enjoin right conduct and forbid evil. And with Allah rests the end (and decision) of (all) affairs." (22:41)
DID ISLAM SPREAD BY FORCE, SWORDS OR GUNS?
The unequivocal and emphatic answer is NO! The Qur'an declares:
"Let there be no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error." (2:256)
Here is a good study of the question of the spread of Islam by a Christian missionary, T. W. Arnold:
"...of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christiandom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them" (8).
Islam does not teach, nor do Muslims desire, conversion of any people for fear, greed, marriage or any other form of coercion.
In conclusion, jihad in Islam is STRIVING IN THE WAY OF ALLAH by pen, tongue, hand, media and, if inevitable, with arms. However, jihad in Islam does not include striving for individual or national power, dominance, glory, wealth, prestige or pride.
References
1. For the sake of simplicity and easy reading, masculine pronouns have been used throughout this brochure. No exclusion of females is intended. 2. Haykal, M. H., THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD, Tr. Ismail R. Faruqi, American Trust Publications, 1976, p. 132. 3. Haykal, pp. 216, 242, 299 and 414 for the Battles of Badr, Uhud, Al-Khandaq and Hunayn, respectively. 4. Haykal, p. 395 for the conquest of Makkah. 5. Haykal, pp. 245, 277, 311 and 326 for campaigns against the tribes of Banu Qaynuqa', Banu Al-Nadir, Banu Qurayzah and Banu Lihyan, respectively. Also, see p. 283 for the Battle of Dhat Al-Riqa'. 6. Haykal, pp. 284, 327, 366, 387, 393, 443 and 515 for the Battles of Dawmat Al-Jandal, Banu Al-Mustaliq, Khayber, Mu'tah, Dhat Al-Salasil, Tabuk and the Campaign of Usama Ibn Zayd, respectively. 7. Hitti, Philip K., HISTORY OF THE ARABS, St. Martin's Press, New York, 1970, p. 153. 8. Arnold, Sir Thomas W. THE PREACHING OF ISLAM, A HISTORY OF THE PROPAGATION OF THE MUSLIM FAITH, Westminister A. Constable & Co., London, 1896, p. 80.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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Glad you leave it to that Sultan!:-) I bet we all believe in the inner Jihad.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: Glad you leave it to that Sultan!:-) I bet we all believe in the inner Jihad.
peace be upon you, Damiana How have you been? I miss arguments here with you and Dalia* I decided to be back to ES again Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Egyptian_batman: Carrying out Prayer (Prostration):
The only people in the whole world today who pray like Jesus (Peace and blessing be upon him), and all the other prophets are the Muslims:
1. Matthew 26:39 “He (Jesus) went a little farther and fell on his face, and prayed, O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will”.
2. Psalm 55:17 “Evening and morning and at noon, I will pray and cry aloud: and He shall hear my voice”.
3. Numbers 20:6 “So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them”.
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Your yoking Sultan!:-) Wish you a good night since I have to prepare for tomorrow.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: The idea is in no way an Islamist or extremist idea but has been teached to mainstream believers in all countries.
Same copy and paste bullshit.
You need a history lesson about Muslims and stop that crap about understanding others because you don't understand anyone when you go picking from ant Islamic material to attack Muslims and mispresent Islam.
Non Muslims -generally- lived much better under Islamic rulers (refer to my thread Muhamad's sword written by Jewish Atheist) than they lived under Christian rulers. On the other hand and for a very long period of time, Christians of the west tried in everyway to convert Muslims and Jews to the point of killing thousands of them or pushing them to leave their home.
When you say mainstream believers are taught to convert others by violence, you insult even our current history where Christians live among muslims without having to pay Jizyah or forced to Islam. If most of us believe this, you wouldn't see one single christian walking alive anywhere in Egypt
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I am not a racist in any form whatever. I don't believe in any form of racism. I don't believe in any form of discrimination or segregation. I believe in ISLAM .
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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People from the book can avoid forced convertion by abiding to Islamic rules and paying taxes. Not be killed. Says the doctrine, that has been teached till today etcetera.
I am not sure about the taxes, never heard of such a thing in Egypt but: they are second class citizens in Egypt and have different rights.
Besides let alone the different status of citizenship the article tells us that all mainstream Islamic denominations teach their believers the orthodox doctrine still today since they follow this Judicial philosophers and imams from the time around 1000. Even Al-Azhar etcetera.
I don't need to prove this.
Where did you go to school and what did they tell you about the way Islam has been spread and how to be proud of that, disregarding christianity and obviously making a preference religion of Islam.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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You have to be blind to not notice the exodus of christians out of the ME and the Islamization of the region. I do not want to blame Islam I do not want to blame believers. I try to understand and the publicists of the articel I mentioned above are not some twisted journalists but arab intellectuals that are not trying to stir the fire.
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It is nog enough to live better under Islamic rule as a christian. Christians, especially in Egypt should have their full rights. And it is not enough to mention other countries where the citizenship is divided to, that is also wrong and does not make the Egyptian situation right. And it is not allright to mention the past, enough stories to pick one way or the other, religious people should have civil rights as civilians not as religious people.
I am not sure about the taxes, never heard of such a thing in Egypt
Someone just likes to contradict herself!
Wasn't this the mainstream teaching and understanding of Islam as you said, how come you never heard of it in Egypt?
quote:but: they are second class citizens in Egypt and have different rights.
Oh really! where exactly in the Egyptian law, Christians are said to be second class citizens?
quote:Besides let alone the different status of citizenship the article tells us
Hear hear!! what article?
quote:I don't need to prove this.
You can't because obviously you have no knowledge of what you talk about except from Christian materials about Islam, same materials that told you that agnostics hate religions. LOL
quote:Where did you go to school and what did they tell you about the way Islam has been spread and how to be proud of that, disregarding christianity and obviously making a preference religion of Islam.
In my class I killed 3 non Muslims and managed to take jizyah from 2 christians. Thank God for Al Azhar, now I'm rich.
P.S did I tell you I have a few slaves too?
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Fooling around does not make things clear Lazeez. Christians are not alowd to stay in the army above a certain age, to prevent them from the high rankings. The church is under the protection of Mubarak himself and cannot receive donations from the west, where muslims can freely receive from any arab country or whomever. There is a huge bureaucracy to get something done in a church like having something broken get repaired. As goes with initiating the construction of a new church. Mosques have clergy payed by the state, christians do not and the area around the mosque is free from taxes, not so for churches. I bet you are better informed about the differences in law then I am, but only this is enough to depress the religious life of christians compaired to muslims. Next to that it is not only legislation but growing Islamisation, Though in name a republic still Egypt is afficiated as a muslimstate to appease the upcoming Islamists for over 30 years they grow in influence. Every legislation today is measured along sharia law. This gives the mob you have among all people the reason to harass christians where they can. Discrimination on the labourmarket, most christians are selfemployed for very good reasons. Muslims that convert to christianity are not able to change religion on their ID-cards. This is benevolent Islamic rule? It is very unfortunate that we have to live with this in our day and age.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: Lazeez, you miss the point.
People from the book can avoid forced convertion by abiding to Islamic rules and paying taxes. Not be killed. Says the doctrine, that has been teached till today etcetera.
I am not sure about the taxes, never heard of such a thing in Egypt but: they are second class citizens in Egypt and have different rights.
Besides let alone the different status of citizenship the article tells us that all mainstream Islamic denominations teach their believers the orthodox doctrine still today since they follow this Judicial philosophers and imams from the time around 1000. Even Al-Azhar etcetera.
I don't need to prove this.
Where did you go to school and what did they tell you about the way Islam has been spread and how to be proud of that, disregarding christianity and obviously making a preference religion of Islam.
This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens. Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Chinderella on the Left wing: This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens.
Then why do they have to have presidential approval to build new churches or to have churches renovated and Muslims don't have to ask for the same permission to build mosques?
And when Copts do manage to get approval to build a church a gang of hoodlums go out and either protest or burn the church in construction down? I mean it doesn't happen every single time, but it happens alot.
And what part of the "Pact of Omar" is taken directly from the Final Prophet's (PBUH) own words?
I don't appreciate how foreign Copts have chosen to put together "Coptic Congress" like the jews have created a "Jewish Congress", I think that is complete balony.
but still I find it really wacky. There is a film out recently about "blue movies" and one of the characters is a Copt. Right in church they start discussing all the "good times" the friends have had together, in reference to dirty movies. I don't particularly want to see this kind of scene taking place in a mosque, but I don't want this kind of scene in a church either. Respect isn't given to a church in the fashion it is towards a Mosque.
Another scene in which the pope shows up for a speech in a church and a assination attempt is played out, in the church. I have yet to see the same scene in a mosque up on the silver or small screen yet produced in the Middle East.
Respect isn't granted equally, even by the film industry.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: This is benevolent Islamic rule? It is very unfortunate that we have to live with this in our day and age.
Did I say anywhere Egypt is following Islamic rules?
I wont respond to every false claim you make, I think it's clear for every visitor to Egypt how many churchs we have and how Christians have reached to positions like ministers and leader of 1/3 of the Egyptian army if they investigate...something which you wont see in any western country now.
But let me tell you something, Christians don't get their full rights, true, but so are the Muslims. Egypt is ruled by police dicatoric state who don't care about Islam or Christianity, Muslims nor Christians.
Is not helpfull either. Fooling around is confusing anyone and it will not be helpfull.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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And when Copts do manage to get approval to build a church a gang of hoodlums go out and either protest or burn the church in construction down? I mean it doesn't happen every single time, but it happens alot.
LOL
Have you been to Egypt before?
quote:And what part of the "Pact of Omar" is taken directly from the Final Prophet's (PBUH) own words?
Pact of Umar isn't recognized in Egypt law, is it?
It's not even authentic not it's from Umar nor the prophet.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Is not helpfull either. Fooling around is confusing anyone and it will not be helpfull.
Ah so we should take the claims coming with no refrences from someone who doesn't live in Egypt and is telling us that Christians are not allowed in Egypt to have any high ranks over the words of Egyptians, why?
You're the one fooling yourself and making a fool out of yourself in a public forum
Your husband lied to you, admit it!
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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You don't want to see the difference, where it is accountable for the flee of Egyptian Christians abroad. Yes, a lot of young people try to make a buck abroad, but a larger amount of Christians do so since they not only try to make a buck but also get more civil rights.
And when Copts do manage to get approval to build a church a gang of hoodlums go out and either protest or burn the church in construction down? I mean it doesn't happen every single time, but it happens alot.
LOL
Have you been to Egypt before?
quote:And what part of the "Pact of Omar" is taken directly from the Final Prophet's (PBUH) own words?
Pact of Umar isn't recognized in Egypt law, is it?
It's not even authentic not it's from Umar nor the prophet.
Yes I have been to Egypt, a few times.
And Lazeez we both know that what is law is a hopeful misinterpretation of what actually happens.
And unfortunately cassette tape sheiks reference the "Pact of Omar" quite often even though its a fraud. Egyptians put alot of currency behind the pact, which is the reason why so many churches that are authorized to be built are burnt by an angry mob and very little investigation, let alone any criminal charges are put forth by the government.
Don't splice words with me. your intent shows.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: You don't want to see the difference, where it is accountable for the flee of Egyptian Christians abroad. Yes, a lot of young people try to make a buck abroad, but a larger amount of Christians do so since they not only try to make a buck but also get more civil rights.
And many Muslims too!
Again stop insulting Muslims by ignoring their rights. They are as persecuted as much as Christians...let's talk about Egyptian rights not Muslims not Christians, we are suppose to be one nation.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: You don't want to see the difference, where it is accountable for the flee of Egyptian Christians abroad. Yes, a lot of young people try to make a buck abroad, but a larger amount of Christians do so since they not only try to make a buck but also get more civil rights.
And molsems as well flee the country.... because also moslems dont earn well here
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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"Again stop insulting Muslims by ignoring their rights. They are as persecuted as much as Christians...let's talk about Egyptian rights not Muslims not Christians, we are suppose to be one nation. "
"And molsems as well flee the country.... because also moslems dont earn well here "
You don't want to see the difference Lazeez, or Chinderella, it comes with a price.
quote:Originally posted by *Albino_Eskimo*: Egyptians put alot of currency behind the pact, which is the reason why so many churches that are authorized to be built are burnt by an angry mob
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Once again.................... LOL!
I can tell you 99.99% of Egyptians don't even know what is the pact of Umar.
As for the mob...
Next time you visit Egypt gove me a ring , I will let you see some churchs being built without any mob burning them down.ok mafia gurl?
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: "This is what ass kissing copts want the world & particulatly the USA to believe.... that they are second class citisens"
Blaming is not helpfull either.
This is not a blame.... It's a well known fact, maybe not to you but we know it
it's cheap to play a victim when you're not
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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LaZeez, take it easy. Can u in clear way explain why you feel insulted by Demiana? Im losing the track here... what do you want to hear from others? that they are mistaken and they are stupid that havent followed islam yet? or what? just as simple as possible, maybe it will calm the whole mess here. thx. Salam
Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
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did i said anything about converted muslims Demiana....? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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