Their evidence is to be found in the saheeh ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which prove that it is prescribed, for example:
1-
The hadeeth narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, cutting the nails, plucking the armpit hairs, and trimming the moustache."
This hadeeth includes circumcision of both males and females.
2-
Muslim (349) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) mentioned the two circumcised parts, i.e., the circumcised part of the husband and the circumcised part of the wife, which indicates that a woman may be circumcised just like a man.
3-
Abu Dawood (5271) narrated from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcisions in Madeenah and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” But the scholars differed concerning this hadeeth. Some of them classed it as da’eef (weak) and others classed it as saheeh. It was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood. The fact that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam is confirmed by the ahaadeeth quoted above, not by this disputed hadeeth. But the scholars differed concerning the ruling, and there are three opinions:
1 – That it is obligatory for both males and females. This is the view of the Shaafa’is and Hanbalis, and is the view favoured by al-Qaadi Abu Bakr ibn al-‘Arabi among the Maalikis (may Allaah have mercy on them all).
Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Majmoo’ (1/367): Circumcision is obligatory for both men and women in our view. This is the view of many of the salaf, as was narrated by al-Khattaabi. Among those who regarded it as obligatory is Ahmad… it is the correct view that is well known and was stated by al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him), and the majority stated definitively that it is obligatory for both men and women. end quote.
See Fath al-Baari, 10/340; Kishshaaf al-Qinaa’, 1/80
2 – That circumcision is Sunnah for both males and females. This is the view of the Hanafis and Maalikis, and was narrated in one report from Ahmad. Ibn ‘Aabideen al-Hanafi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Haashiyah (6/751): In Kitaab al-Tahaarah of al-Siraaj al-Wahhaaj it says: Know that circumcision is Sunnah in our view – i.e., according to the Hanafis – for men and for women. end quote.
See: Mawaahib al-Jaleel, 3/259
3 – That circumcision is obligatory for men and is good and mustahabb for women. This is the third view of Imam Ahmad, and it is the view of some Maalikis such as Sahnoon. This view was also favoured by al-Muwaffaq ibn Qudaamah in al-Mughni.
See: al-Tamheed, 21/60; al-Mughni, 1/63
It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (5/223):
Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, and it is for both males and females, except that is it obligatory for males and Sunnah and good in the case of women. End quote
Thus it is clear that the fuqaha’ of Islam are agreed that circumcision is prescribed for both males and females, and in fact the majority of them are of the view that it is obligatory for both. No one said that it is not prescribed or that it is makrooh or haraam.
Secondly:
With regard to the criticism of circumcision by some doctors, and their claim that it is harmful both physically and psychologically,
This criticism of theirs is not valid. It is sufficient for us Muslims that something be proven to be from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then we will follow it, and we are certain that it is beneficial and not harmful. If it were harmful, Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would not have prescribed it for us.
In the answer to question no. 45528 we have mentioned some of the medical benefits of circumcision for women, quoting from some doctors.
Thirdly:
We would add here the fatwas of some modern scholars who have responded to this war that has been launched against female circumcision on the grounds that it is harmful to health.
Shaykh Jaad al-Haqq ‘Ali Jaad al-Haqq, the former Shaykh of al-Azhar, said:
Hence the fuqaha’ of all madhhabs are agreed that circumcision for both men and woman is part of the fitrah of Islam and one of the symbols of the faith, and it is something praiseworthy. There is no report from any of the Muslim fuqaha’, according to what we have studied in their books that are available to us, to say that circumcision is forbidden for men or women, or that it is not permissible, or that it is harmful for females, if it is done in the manner that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught to Umm Habeebah in the report quoted above.
Then he said:
From the above it is clear that the circumcision of girls – which is the topic under discussion here – is part of the fitrah of Islam, and the way it is to be done is the method that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained. It is not right to abandon his teachings for the view of anyone else, even if that is a doctor, because medicine is knowledge and knowledge is always developing and changing. End quote.
In the fatwa of Shaykh ‘Atiyah Saqar – the former heard of the Fatwa Committee in al-Azhar – it says:
The calls which urge the banning of female circumcision are call that go against Islam, because there is no clear text in the Qur’aan or Sunnah and there is no opinion of the fuqaha’ that says that female circumcision is haraam. Female circumcision is either obligatory or recommended. Even though there is a fiqhi principle which says that the decree of a ruler may put an end to a dispute regarding controversial matters, the decree of the ruler in this case cannot be but either of two things: that it is either obligatory or recommended, and it is not correct to issue a decree banning it, so as not to go against sharee’ah which is the principal source of legislation in our land, whose constitution states that Islam is the official religion of the country. It is permissible to issue some legislation that provides guidelines for performing this procedure (female circumcision) in the proper manner in such a way that does not contradict the rulings of sharee’ah.
The words of the doctors and others are not definitive. Scientific discoveries are still opening doors every day which change our old perceptions. End quote.
In the fatwa of Dar al-Ifta’ al-Misriyyah (6/1986) it says:
Thus it is clear that female circumcision is prescribed in Islam, and that it is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah and it has a good effect of moderating the individual’s behaviour. As for the opinions of doctors who say that female circumcision is harmful, these are individual opinions which are not derived from any agreed scientific basis, and they do not form an established scientific opinion. They acknowledge that the rates of cancer among circumcised men are lower than among those who are not circumcised, and some of these doctors clearly recommend that circumcision should be done by doctors and not these ignorant women, so that the operation will be safe and there will be no negative consequences. However, medical theories about disease and the way to treat it are not fixed, rather they change with time and with ongoing research. So it is not correct to rely on them when criticizing circumcision which the Wise and All-Knowing Lawgiver has decreed in His wisdom for mankind. Experience has taught us that the wisdom behind some rulings and Sunnahs may be hidden from us. May Allaah help us all to follow the right path. End quote.
________________________________________
Could you explain me what is the medical benefit of girl’s circumcision?.
Answer: Praise be to Allaah.
Just as Allaah has created mankind, He has also guided them that which is best suited to their interests in this world and in the Hereafter, so He sent them Messengers and revealed Books to guide mankind to what is good and urge them to follow it, and to teach them what is evil and warn them against it.
Islam may enjoin or forbid something and the people – or most of them – may not be able to see the wisdom behind this command or prohibition. In that case we are obliged to obey the command or heed the prohibition and to have certain faith that the laws of Allaah are all good, even if we cannot see the wisdom behind them.
Circumcision is one of the Sunnahs of the fitrah, as is indicated by the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, plucking the armpit hairs, cutting the nails, and trimming the moustache." narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257).
Undoubtedly with regard to the Sunnahs of the fitrah, some of the wisdom behind them is obvious, and that includes circumcision. There are clear benefits to it which we should pay attention to and understand the wisdom behind it.
In the answer to question no. 9412 we have discussed circumcision, how it is to be done and the ruling on it. In the answer to question no. 7073 we have explained the health and shar’i benefits of circumcision for males.
Circumcision is prescribed for both males and females. The correct view is that circumcision is obligatory for males and that it is one of the symbols of Islam, and that circumcision of women is mustahabb but not obligatory.
There are reports in the Sunnah which indicate that circumcision for women is prescribed in Islam. In Madeenah there was a woman who circumcised women and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.
Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:
The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.
Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.
Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.
Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.
Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.
Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:
Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves.
From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).
The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):
For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.
Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:
It takes away excessive libido from women
It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.
It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections
It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.
In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:
With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.
And Allaah knows best.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
and Allah didnt give ANY instructions on this and the prophet had 4 daughters NO evidence has ever been found that ANY of them were circumcized.
This BARBARIC MUTILATION was carried out by pagan Arabs and others, the pagan Arabs also worshipped stones and other idols so should we take that as Islamic too??
You and those like you are a disgrace to humanity and a disgrace to Islam. May God have mercy on your lost souls. You are SICK
Posted by jessie (Member # 681) on :
Why did He build women [and men] this way, if surgery is necessary?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Jessie thats a good point.
For men it is from a covenant between God and Abraham.
For women its from men who have a fear of sexual inadequacy, not from God or Islam.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:
With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.
The WHO has declared ALL forms of female genital mutilation as harmful, and I've posted several links to that in the other thread.
So why does Islam-QA ignore this and instead quote something published almost 30 years ago? That's their typical way of twisting and ignoring facts in order to deceive people who are stupid enough to believe this crap. It's also typical that they don't give a reliable source as to whether this "book on traditions" really exists.
It's also highly deceiving that they are speaking of "saheeh" ahadeeth when all of the ahadeeth used to justify FGM have been clearly declared as weak. Again, ample evidence of that can be found in the old thread.
I sincerely think castration would be a good option for those angry old men in order to calm them down and make them focus on other things than women and sex. It would also be the perfect solution for the supposedly abundant male libido they keep speaking about in order to justify other atrocities against women. Isn't it weird that those scholars constantly claim that men are the gender with a higher libido and give this as the reason that their wifes should be constantly available to them, that they should be able to marry up to four women and have sex with an unlimited number of slaves ... yet at the same time they claim it's women's libido that should be *reduced*, limited and restricted?
It's a sickening double standard and it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by jessie: Why did He build women [and men] this way, if surgery is necessary?
what are Nails or armpit hair created for?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by jessie: Why did He build women [and men] this way, if surgery is necessary?
what are Nails or armpit hair created for?
Dont be so bloody rediculous!!! they grow back you moron, a clitoris doesnt!
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: The WHO has declared ALL forms of female genital mutilation as harmful, and I've posted several links to that in the other thread.
It was said by health organizations before that Male circumcison is harmful . Now they declare the benefits of it. Why is that?
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by jessie: Why did He build women [and men] this way, if surgery is necessary?
what are Nails or armpit hair created for?
Dont be so bloody rediculous!!! they grow back you moron, a clitoris doesnt!
What about the umbilical cord ?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
are you for real??
The umbilical cord is cut from the placenta which is only for use while inside the womb.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: and Allah didnt give ANY instructions on this and the prophet had 4 daughters NO evidence has ever been found that ANY of them were circumcized.
This BARBARIC MUTILATION was carried out by pagan Arabs and others, the pagan Arabs also worshipped stones and other idols so should we take that as Islamic too??
You and those like you are a disgrace to humanity and a disgrace to Islam. May God have mercy on your lost souls. You are SICK
Agreed, Ayisha. What is pitiful is that since joining ES Dalia, Ayisha and lots of other people have provided numerous, strong arguments proving Sultan's sick views on FGM are wrong. It's utterly bizzare that he doesn't read the points properly and just keeps posting a lot of old tosh, written by a load of old tossers. People like this harm the faith they claim to believe in.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
The disciples of Jesus asked him
Is circumcision beneficial or not?
He said to them:
If it were beneficial, their father would begat them circumcised from their mother. e.g. be born like it.
But the true circumcision in Spirit gives the ultimate benefit.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.
I think you simply don't understand the fatwas you're reading.
How on earth can reducing a person's libido lead to a *healthy libido*? A bit contradictory, is it not?
In the case of women, it serves a useful purpose which is to reduce desire.
With regard to the wisdom behind the circumcision of women, it is to regulate their desire so it will be moderate.
The purpose of circumcising women is to regulate their desire, because if a woman is not circumcised her desire will be strong. Hence the words “O son of an uncircumcised woman” are used as an insult, because the uncircumcised woman has stronger desire.
Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.
female circumcision is a sunnah. but female circumcision is not what you think it is. the kind in the sunnah is not meant to remove the clitoris, but to remove part of the skin that covers it, making the female more sensitive(women find it so much harder to get satisfied than men! because they are not circumcised.) Now this can explain your inquiry.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
If we do read the two storis of Kathy and Cindy posted by Batman. We can understand this easily.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: I'm a female, and I was circumcised a little over two years ago to correct a problem of a hidden clitoris, I couldn't get enough stimulation to it normally, without going through some uncomfortable maneuvers. I had a friend who had it done and it helped her, so I complained to my GYN about my difficulties. My GYN was hesitant to do it and I had to tell her several times how much trouble I was having reaching orgasm during intercourse because I had such a long hood. Finally I said I would do it myself if she refused. This got her attention and we set up an appointment a few days later and she circumcised me. She had me sign a paper that she was not responsible for any problems caused by the operation and it was at my request. I guess she was protecting herself since so many DR's are being sued if something goes wrong.
The results of the operation were wonderful and I only wish I had known about it sooner.
As far as the hypersensitivity issue, it's more a matter of getting used to the feeling and mentally putting it out of your mind until you have sex.
Kathy (USA)
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: I recently had my clitoral hood removed (female circumcision) to improve sensitivity and cleanliness as it was such a long hood. I had some pain during healing, but that has been minimal. Healing has been rapid.
The glans clitoris has slowly increased in size since the operation. The sensitivity is also there and my ability to orgasm has increased be cause of it.
I think that all women should consider have their hoods removed as it would aid in cleanliness of the area and grreatly improving orgasm! I'm totally satisfied!
Female circumcision (i.e. foreskin removal) is an operation not widely known by females - and usually not widely known by doctors who may be called upon to practice it. Contrary to the recurrent idea in sex manuals today, most females, even in Western countries, had very little idea about their anatomy until the 1950s, and only a minority had any idea what a clitoris was, what it could do for them, and - last but not least - that it had to be cleaned. A good number of female friends whom I've discussed this with have found to have adherences that were extremly unpleasant, causing itching, redness, soreness - just like under the foreskin of uncircumcised boys.
Based on the above, it would seem easy to follow my advice. However, there has been some debate on whether circumcising clitoral hoods did not, in some cases, cause a problem in women - i.e., making the sensitivity of their clits impossible to control. The clitoris is not a penis. It does not thrust to orgasm, is attached to the belly, moves back and forth in the slit. It can be irritated easily (a phenomenon reported for a while by all freshly circumcised women), but certainly bring greater orgasms when it is totally naked. The few cases we see, however, like mine, are insufficient to form a real idea of the benefits of circumcision in females. Obviously for me it did provide many benefits. But it may not for you. I do not know enough circumcised women to form a wide sweeping opinion on this.
Probably one of the best ways to deal with this subject would be to have a clitoral exam when a female reaches a certain sexual maturity (around her twenties). Gynecological exams before then are usually an unpleasant, and sometimes traumatic experience for a girl. The doctor would not only check the vagina, the rectum, and the cervix, but also the sensitivity of the clitoris, the degree to which the hood adheres to the tip, and whether it would be beneficial or not to have a hood removal - which takes 15 minutes under local anesthesia, at the most. It would also be an ideal time to discuss clitoral hygeine with women, and the need for regular clitoral hood retraction and washing. This would enable women to add to the sexual pleasure - giving them greater sexual confidence. It would also give women a basis for which to decide if they believe they would benefit from female circumcision, as I have.
Cindy (USA)
This is clearly a confirmation to the importance of the islamic circumcison which is reducing the libido( which is increasing due to lack of correct sensitivity) and increase sensitivity of female.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
''Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.''
Yeah, like www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=9412&ln=eng can be trusted to answer questions scientifically, with proper, up-to-date research to back their more absurd claims.
The ugly truth cannot be hidden, that ignorance is overwhelmingly behind FGM, not the desire to enhance female pleasure. They insult only their own weak weak intelligence by even presenting this rubbish as an argument. Morons.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
I feel uncomfortable because you are unable to understand my clear point. please Don't give me the impression that I'm talking with wrong persons. I'm against FGM. Don't you get this point?
it is frustrating that women find it much harder to get satisfied than men, and definately it is true that female circumcision, if done properly, would be something beneficial to women in their married lives.
The proper circumcision is sunna circumcision.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Sultan, as a woman, I think you are talking utter rubbish. I am infinitely better qualified to comment on female sexuality than you are. I understand what you're saying, it's very simple . I simply disagree. All of the other sane women on this thread disagree with you too. Should that not provide even the smallest of clues that you are barking up the wrong tree or just barking mad? Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Sultan, as a woman, I think you are talking utter rubbish. I am infinitely better qualified to comment on female sexuality than you are. I understand what you're saying, it's very simple . I simply disagree. All of the other sane women on this thread disagree with you too. Should that not provide even the smallest of clues that you are barking up the wrong tree or just barking mad?
You can't judge all women. you are talking from the logic that you are a woman and you know better than me. Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Islam hasn't freed you from utter stupidity, Sultan. I don't claim to speak for all women, but I'm a better placed candidate than you will ever be. Every woman here, as far as I can see, has expressed concern at your views on FGM. The majority have expressed disgust.
The issue is about sick attitudes towards women and a desperate need to control even the most private aspects of female sexuality. It has nothing to do with 'God' or the Qur'an and women and men here have repeatedly demonstrated this. Don't try and pretend you now care about the very few women in the world that may have a rare physical condition. In my entire life, I have never met one such woman or even heard of any, yet you were so so keen to drag a child off to be examined. Are you crazy? Dressing ignorance up as truth will never work. Your views have been discredited and every slimy twist and turn noted. Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
Your post consists of Insults and escaping from the topic frame. Why don't you address me in a more scientific way?
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
Why don't you read the stories I posted in the other thread of Sherry, Joe and the millions of other men who are suffering from their intense sex drive and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see men suffering because of a lack of harmony with their wives.
Castration comes to free men from this dilemma. I think it would be the perfect solution for men who feel they can't contain their urges. Imagine -- no women being pressured to have sex with their husbands if they are not in the mood, no men hurting their wives' feelings by having second, third and fourth wives out of a desire for variety in the bedroom anymore, no prostitution, no cheating; in short, much less suffering for millions of women in the Muslim world, now wouldn't that be wonderful? And since you're so concerned about women not suffering unnecessarily, I'm sure you will agree with me that castration would be very, very beneficial to achieve this goal. Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
Why don't you read the stories I posted in the other thread of Sherry, Joe and the millions of other men who are suffering from their intense sex drive and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see men suffering because of a lack of harmony with their wives.
Castration comes to free men from this dilemma. I think it would be the perfect solution for men who feel they can't contain their urges. Imagine -- no women being pressured to have sex with their husbands if they are not in the mood, no men hurting their wives' feelings by having second, third and fourth wives out of a desire for variety in the bedroom anymore, no prostitution, no cheating; in short, much less suffering for millions of women in the Muslim world, now wouldn't that be wonderful? And since you're so concerned about women not suffering unnecessarily, I'm sure you will agree with me that castration would be very, very beneficial to achieve this goal.
Firstly This is not prescribed by Islam Secondly This is abuse for women. Thirdly Castration is like FGM. Both are Illegal in Islam
Posted by ZAME (Member # 12914) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Your post consists of Insults and escaping from the topic frame. Why don't you address me in a more scientific way?
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Your post consists of Insults and escaping from the topic frame. Why don't you address me in a more scientific way?
Sultan, your use of the word scientific is preposterous, given the absence of any credibility in your arguments. Your views, I find hugely offensive and degrading to women. I will address your monstrous opinions as I see fit. If you don't like it, remove your overly emotional brain from the debate. Instead of presenting evidence, you just cut and paste more layers of nonsense, as you try to manoeuvre your way out of the pit you have dug for yourself. The problem is that you are not a skilled enough driver and you don't even appear to understand the words you post. Quit playing the injured party when you know how rancid your opinions on women's sexuality are to most people here.
I suggest you go off and learn some biological facts, rather than trying to convince anyone that FGM or female circumcision is necessary to inflict on huge populations of women. You don't listen and admit that you are too lazy to bother to read replies. How can anyone respect your sincerity, in such circumstances or tolerate you asking the same questions over and over again? You have failed to reverse your initial argument. It is futile to try and persuade anyone that you now have the sexual interests of all women at heart. You are one deluded dude. Posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert (Member # 12634) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Sultan, as a woman, I think you are talking utter rubbish. I am infinitely better qualified to comment on female sexuality than you are. I understand what you're saying, it's very simple . I simply disagree. All of the other sane women on this thread disagree with you too. Should that not provide even the smallest of clues that you are barking up the wrong tree or just barking mad?
You can't judge all women. you are talking from the logic that you are a woman and you know better than me. Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
There are many people who have a medical procedure to remove their tonsils. Doctors recommend this kind of surgery to improve the patients health. Sometimes the tonsils are so large that they make breathing and swallowing quite difficult and painful. They sometimes do this procedure on children if they have repeated infection.
It would be stupid to remove the tonsils of every new born baby to prevent few from having problems when they`re adults.
Likewise, circumcision may be medically required to treat some women but there`s no way to know who will require this corrective procedure until they are grown and start to have problems. It does not make any sense to circumcise every baby girl on the off chance that few may need it way into their adulthood.
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert:
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Sultan, as a woman, I think you are talking utter rubbish. I am infinitely better qualified to comment on female sexuality than you are. I understand what you're saying, it's very simple . I simply disagree. All of the other sane women on this thread disagree with you too. Should that not provide even the smallest of clues that you are barking up the wrong tree or just barking mad?
You can't judge all women. you are talking from the logic that you are a woman and you know better than me. Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
There are many people who have a medical procedure to remove their tonsils. Doctors recommend this kind of surgery to improve the patients health. Sometimes the tonsils are so large that they make breathing and swallowing quite difficult and painful. They sometimes do this procedure on children if they have repeated infection.
It would be stupid to remove the tonsils of every new born baby to prevent few from having problems when they`re adults.
Likewise, circumcision may be medically required to treat some women but there`s no way to know who will require this corrective procedure until they are grown and start to have problems. It does not make any sense to circumcise every baby girl on the off chance that few may need it way into their adulthood.
wut if baning tonsils remve ?
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Castration comes to free men from this dilemma.
unnnnnnnnnnnnnmom. should u post this in the marriage forrrrrum/share ur experience forum?
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by jessie: Why did He build women [and men] this way, if surgery is necessary?
the foreskin is for proetction of the penis of the baby in abdomn of mama. when the baby come he is circumcised because this skin on his penis is no use now. we need show the penis now to be visible Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert:
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Sultan, as a woman, I think you are talking utter rubbish. I am infinitely better qualified to comment on female sexuality than you are. I understand what you're saying, it's very simple . I simply disagree. All of the other sane women on this thread disagree with you too. Should that not provide even the smallest of clues that you are barking up the wrong tree or just barking mad?
You can't judge all women. you are talking from the logic that you are a woman and you know better than me. Why don't you read the upove stories of Cindy , Kath and other millions of females that are suffering and don't know what to do? It's frustrating to see women suffering because of lack of sensitivity harmony with their husbands. Islam comes to free women from this dilemma.
There are many people who have a medical procedure to remove their tonsils. Doctors recommend this kind of surgery to improve the patients health. Sometimes the tonsils are so large that they make breathing and swallowing quite difficult and painful. They sometimes do this procedure on children if they have repeated infection.
It would be stupid to remove the tonsils of every new born baby to prevent few from having problems when they`re adults.
Likewise, circumcision may be medically required to treat some women but there`s no way to know who will require this corrective procedure until they are grown and start to have problems. It does not make any sense to circumcise every baby girl on the off chance that few may need it way into their adulthood.
fyi ya auto clitoralhod cause UTI for ladies because urine drops is rotton n rancid in this area between clitoris and clitois hood.
clit sheath(hood) is for protectin of glans of the baby in mother abdomen like the penis sheath(forskin) after birth, the sheat of penis n the clit shoud b removed for cleaning
the penis sheath cause uti the clit sheat cause uti Posted by TAREK307 (Member # 7838) on :
ANY MAN WHO AGREES WITH FGM SHOULD HAVE HIS PENIS CUT OFF IMMEDIATLEY! YOU IGNORANT IDIOTS
Posted by little surfer girl (Member # 12820) on :
quote:Originally posted by TAREK307: ANY MAN WHO AGREES WITH FGM SHOULD HAVE HIS PENIS CUT OFF IMMEDIATLEY! YOU IGNORANT IDIOTS
!!!!
Posted by Aya Hosni (Member # 10646) on :
quote: ''Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.'' [/QB]
Does male circumcision have something in common with libido???? I thought it is made just from hygienic reasons.. As i have thought all the time, sanitary (cleaness) is the main aim of circumcision, but in female circumcision takes place other intentions. And i have heard that in most countries it is forbidden nowadays. Sultan, can u explain plz?
Posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert (Member # 12634) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
the penis sheath cause uti the clit sheat cause uti
Garbage
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
Urinary tract infections. Urinary tract infections. Circumcision decreases the risk of urinary tract infection (UTI) tenfold in the first year of life, and the decreased risk continues for the first
five years of life. Ginsberg and McCracken first reported a relationship between circumcision and UTI in 1982. Of 62 male infants admitted to the hospital with UTI, they found that 95% were uncircumcised. Wiswell's 1985 hospital-based study reported fewer UTIs during the first year of life in circumcised males. A much larger, two-part study by Wiswell and Roscelli the following year confirmed these initial findings.
In the first part of the larger study, which included 3,924 infants born at Brooke Army Medical Center, the frequency of UTI in uncircumcised males was 1.1%, ten times the frequency found in circumcised males (0.1%). in the second part of the study, of 422,328 infants born over a 10-year period, uncircumcised males made up only 19.3% of the study population but accounted for 70.8% of the UTIs. Even more significant, as the rate of circumcision decreased over the years, the number of UTIs increased.
Data from 100,000 Swedish children confirmed Wiswell's findings, revealing a risk of 1.1% for uncircumcised males in the first year of life. More recently, several reports have demonstrated that the risk of UTI is lower for circumcised than uncircumcised males beyond the first year, at least through 5 years of age. A study published in December by To and colleagues supports the findings of decreased risk of UTI for circumcised males but notes that the protective effect of circumcision may be less than previously thought. http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circum.htm Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
Circumcision has been performed from very early times in many cultures around the world . The table summarizes its benefits and risks according to current data. Studies suggest that neonatal circumcision does play a role in preventing some medical conditions, including penile carcinoma and urinary tract infection, and may or may not reduce the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases and cervical cancer.
Diseases Prevented: >7,000 cases of Aids >10,000 cases of syphilis >20,000 episodes of kidney infection >1,000 cases of penile cancer 200,000 cases of phimosis (foreskin scared closed) 250,000 cases of balanoposthitis (infected forskin)
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aya Hosni:
quote: ''Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.''
Does male circumcision have something in common with libido???? I thought it is made just from hygienic reasons.. As i have thought all the time, sanitary (cleaness) is the main aim of circumcision, but in female circumcision takes place other intentions. And i have heard that in most countries it is forbidden nowadays. Sultan, can u explain plz? [/QB]
There are a lot of theories.
Posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert (Member # 12634) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Urinary tract infections. Urinary tract infections. Circumcision decreases the risk of urinary tract infection (UTI) tenfold in the first year of life, and the decreased risk continues for the first
five years of life. Ginsberg and McCracken first reported a relationship between circumcision and UTI in 1982. Of 62 male infants admitted to the hospital with UTI, they found that 95% were uncircumcised. Wiswell's 1985 hospital-based study reported fewer UTIs during the first year of life in circumcised males. A much larger, two-part study by Wiswell and Roscelli the following year confirmed these initial findings.
In the first part of the larger study, which included 3,924 infants born at Brooke Army Medical Center, the frequency of UTI in uncircumcised males was 1.1%, ten times the frequency found in circumcised males (0.1%). in the second part of the study, of 422,328 infants born over a 10-year period, uncircumcised males made up only 19.3% of the study population but accounted for 70.8% of the UTIs. Even more significant, as the rate of circumcision decreased over the years, the number of UTIs increased.
Data from 100,000 Swedish children confirmed Wiswell's findings, revealing a risk of 1.1% for uncircumcised males in the first year of life. More recently, several reports have demonstrated that the risk of UTI is lower for circumcised than uncircumcised males beyond the first year, at least through 5 years of age. A study published in December by To and colleagues supports the findings of decreased risk of UTI for circumcised males but notes that the protective effect of circumcision may be less than previously thought. http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circum.htm
Garbage. And how easy it is to get you change your argument. You argued that circumcision should be done to increase pleasure for women. But the problem there is not every woman suffers from that closed hood thing and there's no way of knowing if a baby girl would develop such a problem later in life. Which makes your argument for routine circumcision mute.
Now you pulling this UTI crap. How many people do you know who are uncircumcised and have/had UTI? How many people are uncircumcised period? You can't get any more delusional than this. It's not rocket science, all you have to do is look around you. If UTI is really that much of a risk why aren't there hundreds of millions of people in hospitals or being treated right now? Why are children dying from hunger and diseases resulting from unclean water and not UTI (at least not that I've heard of) ?
If you really care that much of the subject, drop everything you're doing and go down to the nearest clinic near you. Ask them how many patients came today to be treated for UTI.
I bet if you research tonsil infection you will find more cases than those with UTI.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote: how easy it is to get you change your argument.
I didn't change my first argument. It's an additional one.
quote: Ask them how many patients came today to be treated for UTI.
The number is amazingly high ( women are greater in number). Btw, UTI are not one type disease.
Posted by sultan.org(In Makka ) (Member # 10368) on :
quote:Originally posted by GetYourFilthyHandsOffMyDesert: If UTI is really that much of a risk why aren't there hundreds of millions of people in hospitals or being treated right now?
because there are Broad spectrum Antibiotics that cure it.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
well thats odd, I have not had FGM performed on me, I am not on any anti biotics or medication of any type and have never had a UTI so I must be a miracle of some sort Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
I say it again. I pray to God Sultan, BatMan and all men who wish to remain ignorant and hold on to delusions about circumcision NEVER will be blessed with female children. I hope their sperm is sterile and furthermore, they become impotent.
The "clit" does not have the same kind of "sheath" like a penis. I would imagine a chronically "exposed" clit would be painful, not pleasurable. The hood of the clitoris protects the clit as it is an extremely sensitive nerve. The clit serves NO OTHER FUNCTION than to provide sexual satisfaction for the female, unlike the penis which provides multiple functions.
Finally, both men argued circumcision (and backed it up with their cavemen scholars) limits female sexual libido. Now, they take a few statements from WESTERN WOMEN LOL who extoll the virtues of clitorectomy (which is not what happens in ME countries, even when the entire clit is not removed!!!!!!!!) and try to argue this is what circumcision is all about...pleasure for the woman!!!!! They are liars and they are so ignorant. I wonder how they get computers hooked up in their caves???
Posted by Aya Hosni (Member # 10646) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ):
quote:Originally posted by Aya Hosni:
quote: ''Correctly circumcised Males and Females have healthy libido that is better than uncircumcised couples.''
Does male circumcision have something in common with libido???? I thought it is made just from hygienic reasons.. As i have thought all the time, sanitary (cleaness) is the main aim of circumcision, but in female circumcision takes place other intentions. And i have heard that in most countries it is forbidden nowadays. Sultan, can u explain plz?
There are a lot of theories. [/QB]
Is it possible to have a lot of theories in the field of medicine? It is not a philosophy- it's practical science Posted by SUKKUR (Member # 13009) on :
Likewise, circumcision may be medically required to treat some women but there`s no way to know who will require this corrective procedure until they are grown and start to have problems. It does not make any sense to circumcise every baby girl on the off chance that few may need it way into their adulthood. -----------------------------------
Yes but if we can just save one woman from excessive libido our efforts will be worthwhile. It would be like saving mankind. A single woman can corrupt the minds of so many pious men..why take the chance?
Posted by Mobrouk (Member # 13095) on :
Could SUKKAR be any more gay????? S U C K E R
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): Urinary tract infections. Urinary tract infections. Circumcision decreases the risk of urinary tract infection (UTI) tenfold in the first year of life, and the decreased risk continues for the first
five years of life. Ginsberg and McCracken first reported a relationship between circumcision and UTI in 1982. Of 62 male infants admitted to the hospital with UTI, they found that 95% were uncircumcised. Wiswell's 1985 hospital-based study reported fewer UTIs during the first year of life in circumcised males. A much larger, two-part study by Wiswell and Roscelli the following year confirmed these initial findings.
In the first part of the larger study, which included 3,924 infants born at Brooke Army Medical Center, the frequency of UTI in uncircumcised males was 1.1%, ten times the frequency found in circumcised males (0.1%). in the second part of the study, of 422,328 infants born over a 10-year period, uncircumcised males made up only 19.3% of the study population but accounted for 70.8% of the UTIs. Even more significant, as the rate of circumcision decreased over the years, the number of UTIs increased.
Data from 100,000 Swedish children confirmed Wiswell's findings, revealing a risk of 1.1% for uncircumcised males in the first year of life. More recently, several reports have demonstrated that the risk of UTI is lower for circumcised than uncircumcised males beyond the first year, at least through 5 years of age. A study published in December by To and colleagues supports the findings of decreased risk of UTI for circumcised males but notes that the protective effect of circumcision may be less than previously thought. http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circum.htm
Err ... this is referring to MALE circumcision which is a whole different issue altogether, so it doesn't have any significance for the discussion at hand. A penis is used for urinating, a clitoris is not.
I'm surprised you didn't know that. Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Holy moly, thank god I saved myself and my unborn daughter for this kind of fate!
Seriously, I can't get over the fact that FGM is discussed here with some virgins who never touched a woman, never made love to a woman, don't know anything about the female species!
And then they pull this crap about 'healthy libido'. And what are you - advocators about UTI????
Guys, you are afraid of women who have normal desire for sex. You are afraid of the fact that she might wander off to someone else. So you wanna keep her under control by removing some private parts of her?!
Seriously, something is completely wrong in the Muslim culture. Why are all these women don't get out off the street and demonstrate against mutilation, oppression and other things? Why do they bend down and let the males rule their lives? Women where are your united voices????
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist:
The "clit" does not have the same kind of "sheath" like a penis.
liar Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: I would imagine a chronically "exposed" clit would be painful, not pleasurable. The hood of the clitoris protects the clit as it is an extremely sensitive nerve. The clit serves NO OTHER FUNCTION than to provide sexual satisfaction for the female, unlike the penis which provides multiple functions.
now answer this list 1 u say "exposed clit will be painful not pleasurable", where th Fcuk u get this? 2 the hood protct clit from what? the forskin protect penis from what?
3 u say the penis have no sexual function? the penis erect and the clit erect u know that. wat the differnece? the clit is sensivite and the tip of the penis is not??
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
humanist u r ignortant it's crystal clear u have no knowledge about sex ur words about sex mechanism and "exposed clit" is distorted and deluded.
u r ignorant Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
my my batman you are stupid Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Batman, Humanist is a woman (I think)and should have a more direct knowledge of the sexuality of women than you appear to. You are just embarrassing yourself on this thread, Batman. I'm embarrassed for you. Your views are misinformed, misguided and plain wrong and your refusal to see the truth damns you. Please stop typing until you know what you are talking about. Are you just trying to be offensive?
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
I'm a woman working in the medical field, interfacing on a technical basis with Ob/gyn's on a regular basis, have delivered several children and had enjoyed thousands of orgasms at the hands of my skilled, sensitive and GRATEFULLY intelligent and logical EGYPTIAN husband.
Batman is an idiot who hasn't got a clue.
Posted by al-Kahina (Member # 12077) on :
quote:Originally posted by SUKKUR: Likewise, circumcision may be medically required to treat some women but there`s no way to know who will require this corrective procedure until they are grown and start to have problems. It does not make any sense to circumcise every baby girl on the off chance that few may need it way into their adulthood. -----------------------------------
Yes but if we can just save one woman from excessive libido our efforts will be worthwhile. It would be like saving mankind. A single woman can corrupt the minds of so many pious men..why take the chance?
How many votes for Sukkur being a castration canidate?
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
Sukkur was being facetious...I think...am I right Sukkur?
Posted by TAREK307 (Member # 7838) on :
TAKE YOUR STUPID SAUDI SALAFI WAHABI ASS BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM! YOU IDIOT!
you people disgust me, trying to say ISLAM says circumsize FEMALES! HOW DARE YOU??
The SAUDI WAHABI who posted this should have his penis cut off and never be allowed to have children ....I HONESTLY DESPISE YOU!!
Posted by Don't Call Me A Small Fry (Member # 10626) on :
quote:Originally posted by TAREK307: TAKE YOUR STUPID SAUDI SALAFI WAHABI ASS BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM! YOU IDIOT!
you people disgust me, trying to say ISLAM says circumsize FEMALES! HOW DARE YOU??
The SAUDI WAHABI who posted this should have his penis cut off and never be allowed to have children ....I HONESTLY DESPISE YOU!!
**Standing Ovation for Tarek307** Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: Sukkur was being facetious...I think...am I right Sukkur?
No, he's just a troll. Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by Don't Call Me A Small Fry:
quote:Originally posted by TAREK307: TAKE YOUR STUPID SAUDI SALAFI WAHABI ASS BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM! YOU IDIOT!
you people disgust me, trying to say ISLAM says circumsize FEMALES! HOW DARE YOU??
The SAUDI WAHABI who posted this should have his penis cut off and never be allowed to have children ....I HONESTLY DESPISE YOU!!
**Standing Ovation for Tarek307**
Second standing ovation for Tarek. I have never, ever heard of such a barbaric thing until I came to this forum. I've been in the medical field for almost 20 yrs and I never ,ever knew such things were done. I cant believe it, it makes me sick. You men on this forum that advocate this should be castrated !! This is why I dont believe in organized religion, because I know this is made up **** by stupid men wanting to control woman. The God I believe in would never want his beautiful creations to be mutilated. When it is time for you to meet your maker you will be judged for these evils that you condone, but until then, I curse you with dead dickies for the rest of your days you evil basturds!!
Posted by TAREK307 (Member # 7838) on :
quote:Originally posted by Don't Call Me A Small Fry:
quote:Originally posted by TAREK307: TAKE YOUR STUPID SAUDI SALAFI WAHABI ASS BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM! YOU IDIOT!
you people disgust me, trying to say ISLAM says circumsize FEMALES! HOW DARE YOU??
The SAUDI WAHABI who posted this should have his penis cut off and never be allowed to have children ....I HONESTLY DESPISE YOU!!
**Standing Ovation for Tarek307**
Thanks, but this shouldn't even be a debated SUBJECT! it honestly makes me sick and ashamed to be Egyptian or affiliated with those idiot backward Arabs...or so called Muslims who interpet Islam in a very dark and violent Light!
FEMALE CIRCUM is not part of ISLAM, Male circum is not female! Those saudi salafi wahabi idiots are the same people that introduced us to the freake'n BURKA aka NIKAB aka NINJA OUTFIT! so nothing good comes from them abviosley!!
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): This is not prescribed by Islam
Says who? Can you bring on a fatwa that says in clear words it's prohibited?
quote:Originally posted by sultan.org(In Makka ): This is abuse for women.
No, you don't understand, women will greatly benefit from this!!!
Read this:
Another positive aspect of castration is that it reduces not only the sexual impulse, but all aggressive traits in a person.
Apart from the advantages I mentioned in the other thread, having more males castrated will lead to more stable families since cheating and domestic violence will decrease. Also, harassment in the street (unfortunately an all-too-common problem in many Muslim countries) and rape will be much less of an issue, so all in all there will be much less fitna in society, isn't that great?
You know, men with a stronge libido will need at least ten women to please their lust, so they will be considered a bit not chaste. So it's advisable for them to have this surgery. Again, this will help men to increase their health and achieve a calmer mindset, but also lead to happier relationships between men and women. A further benefit that is apparent for men and even more so for their wives is that men of hot climates often have a strong sex drive, so when their genitals rub against their clothing their desires get aroused. Their penis or testicles may even grow to such a size that sexual intercourse is not possible. Therefore, castration reduces his desires and their effects in the first case and makes intercourse possible in the second case.
So if you see all those advantages castration would bring to men, but also to society in general, you will surely agree that it would be a truly Islamic thing to encourage more men to search out a responsible doctor and have their libido checked in order to determine whether they need this operation or not and not hesitate to have it performed in case the doctor deems it necessary. Parents should also be told there is no shame in taking their male baby to a responsible, non-biased pediatrician to check his libido and see whether he needs the operation or not. Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
Female Circumcision Does it Only Apply to Males?
Allah (SWT) ordered His Messenger (SAW) to follow the way and religion of Ibraheem (AS) in His saying:
"Then, We have inspired you (O Muhammad (SAW) saying): "Follow the religion of Abraham (AS) Hanifan (Islamic Monotheism to worship none but Allah)…" (An-Nahl 16:123)
And circumcision if from his religion, and this nation is commanded with whatever its Prophet (SAW) was commanded unless there if further proof to show that it is something particular to him.
Narrated by Abu Hurairah (RA) who said: Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:
"The Fitrah (natural way) is five: circumcision, shaving the private parts, trimming the mustache, clipping the nails and plucking hair from the armpits." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
It is clear that circumcision is obligatory. However, does this apply to females or is it particular to the males. From the manners prescribed for the new-born child is the circumcision (Khitaan) which the surgical removal of the skin surrounding the head of the boys penis and the skin dangling above the girl’s vagina.
Circumcision of Girls
The view that we arrived at when discussing the ruling of circumcision was indeed particular to males.
Perhaps the closest of the sayings to the truth is that circumcision is prescribed for women and allowed for them and is not an obligation, and that is due to the following:
1) The saying of the Prophet (SAW):
"When two circumcised parts unite then bathing becomes obligatory." (Sahih, Reported by Ahmad and Al-Baihaqee)
2) The saying of the Messenger (SAW) in the Hadith of Umm ‘Atiyyah to a female circumcision:
"When you circumcise then do not cut severely, since that is better for her and more pleasing to the husband." (Reported by Abu Dawud and Al-Baihaqee and declared Hasan by Shaikh Al-Albani)
3) And to those who declare it to be obligatory upon the women, then it is said: Rather the other refers to the men and it is not correct to transfer the ruling to the women, since they differ from men in their nature and constitution and there is no proof for its obligation upon them except for an analogy - and that cannot be applied here as we have mentioned.
4) As for the Hadith of Umm ‘Atiyyah then it shows no more than an allowance as has preceded, not an obligation.
The Harm That is Attributed to this Operation
The harm that is attributed to this operation cannot be ascribed to circumcision itself, rather to two matters:
1) Cutting too severely - as occurs in some Islamic lands - such that the clitoris or its hood is totally removed, indeed sometimes even the outer lips (labia) are removed and the vaginal orifice closed. It is essential to point out here that this is not the prescribed Shariah method by the Messenger (SAW) who warned against its saying: "When you circumcise then do not do so severely…"
2) Or the harm is also due to this operation being carried out by those who do not specialize in this field, or by the use of unsterilized instruments which causes infection or harmful illnesses.
So when we consider this harm, we find that it is not caused by circumcision itself, but rather by contradicting the text forbidding cutting severely, or by using unhygienic instruments, and this cannot be used to prevent the operation itself - if properly performed - since it male circumcision were to be performed by cutting to excess or with unhygienic instruments - then that would also be detested and rejected. So would this be a reason to prevent male circumcision? So the same goes with regard to females.
So from what has preceded it becomes clear that female circumcision - if done correctly - such that the cutting is limited, and done with proper instruments - is something prescribed and produces health and psychological benefits - and is far removed from harmful effects of danger.
Benefits of Female Circumcision
A number of doctors have affirmed that female circumcision produces a number of benefits. Female circumcision shares some of the benefits of male circumcision, and has extra benefits particular to it - some of them being mentioned by our Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who said that it is:
"Better for the woman and more pleasing for the husband" and that it is "Better of the face and more pleasing to the husband." (Reported by Al-Baihaqee)
And as is known these benefits so not reach the level of importance of the benefits of male circumcision. However, they are benefits and productive of good effects.
Here are some of the benefits which have been discovered:
1) A reduction of infections resulting from microbes gathering under the hood of the clitoris.
2) Attacks of herpes and genital ulcers are less severe and less harmful with men and women who have been circumcised.
3) A further benefit that is apparent for women and more so for their husbands, is that women of hot climates often have a large clitoris which arouses their desires when it rubs against the adjacent clothing. It may even grow to such a size that sexual intercourse is not possible. Therefore, circumcision reduces her desires and their effects in the first case, and makes intercourse possible in the second case.
quote:Originally posted by humanist: I'm a woman working in the medical field, interfacing on a technical basis with Ob/gyn's on a regular basis, have delivered several children and had enjoyed thousands of orgasms at the hands of my skilled, sensitive and GRATEFULLY intelligent and logical EGYPTIAN husband.
Batman is an idiot who hasn't got a clue.
u frak idiot
the forskin of female is no use it increas time of reach orgasm u
According to Kinsey, for about 75% of all males, orgasm is possible to be attained within the first two minutes after initiation of sexual intercourse. For women the average time to reach orgasm is between 10 and 20 minutes. The swiftness of the male system virtually guarantees climactic orgasms for males but is usually too quick to give the female a penetration-induced orgasm. However, the average time to female orgasm via masturbation is significantly less at four minutes after forskin remove in women women have fast orgasm
if u dont circumcise women this is woman abuse
go figure moron
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Batman not again please!!
Allah made us PERFECT he didnt make any mistakes that we humans need to correct. THIS IS NOT IN ISLAM.
wake up and GO FIGURE Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
It is clear that circumcision is obligatory. However, does this apply to females or is it particular to the males. From the manners prescribed for the new-born child is the circumcision (Khitaan) which the surgical removal of the skin surrounding the head of the boys penis and the skin dangling above the girl’s vagina.
I know you're only quoting this disgusting piece of nonsense in order to provoke since you are surely aware of the fact that it's been posted and debated before here.
I will report this to the moderators nevertheless because cutting off the labia of a newborn baby is child abuse, and saying it's a religious duty is promoting child abuse.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
According to Kinsey, for about 75% of all males, orgasm is possible to be attained within the first two minutes after initiation of sexual intercourse.
Two minutes? ROFL ... are you into quickies, badman? I guess most people would prefer to enjoy the whole thing for a bit longer, wouldn't you think? Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
Poor dear, sweet, pathetic Batty! It took him 3 weeks to come up with that weak "Kinsey" report--LOL, what we civilized people understand about KINSEY was the guy would NEVER propagate clipping off any piece of the female clitoras.
Batty, it really is simple...the foreskin of a woman's clitoris is VERY different from the male foreskin. It is, for lack of a better word, a very thin membrane that PROTECTS the clitoral nerve...the clitoral nerve is 500x more sensitive than the head of the male penis. Chronic exposure of the clitoral nerve freaking hurts!
The worst part about your argument is you swing between saying circumcision is to make a woman chaste because it reduces sexual desire and then you bring arguments to suggest it enhances sexual desire! Which one is it Batty? Which Imam are you listening to today?
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
FORSKIN IN MALE AND FEMAL IS THE SAME
GO FIGURE U R IGNORAMOUS
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORSKIN IN MALE AND FEMAL IS THE SAME
GO FIGURE U R IGNORAMOUS
Have you ever seen a clitoris up close Batty? Now I know you've seen plenty of male foreskin up close, especially your own...tell me, is it really the same?
Come on Alistair, help me out here. We know you've got a track record. Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
quote:Come on Alistair, help me out here. We know you've got a track record. [/QB]
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Eritrea bans female circumcision
ASMARA (Reuters) - Eritrea has banned female circumcision, a life-threatening tradition that aid groups say afflicts some 90 percent of the country's women.
A government statement issued on Thursday said anyone who requested, took part in or promoted the practice now faced a fine of several hundred dollars or up to 10 years in jail.
"Female circumcision is a procedure that seriously endangers the health of women, causes them considerable pain and suffering besides threatening their lives," the statement said.
"Whosoever requests, incites or promotes female circumcision ... shall be punishable with a fine and imprisonment."
ignorant arrogants trolls Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORSKIN IN MALE AND FEMAL IS THE SAME
GO FIGURE U R IGNORAMOUS
Have you ever seen a clitoris up close Batty? Now I know you've seen plenty of male foreskin up close, especially your own...tell me, is it really the same?
Come on Alistair, help me out here. We know you've got a track record.
ROFL Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
First of all, this is CAT's brother talking
Batman and Sultan, why don't you take your "Islamic" preachings and shove it up your ass! I'm sure you'll like it being up there. After that, go to a doctor and let him fill your ass with cement so that you know what it feels like to be deprived from sexual gratification. Reading your earlier posts, I came to the conclusion that both of you are religious extremists/fanatics who love to show off with their worship, as to try to convince us of you being "good" I guess I know why they call us terrorists. My mouth is as dirty as my penis, and both of you don't want me start ejacualting all over your "clitoris" I really doubt that you even have a brain, all you have is just a remote control that controls most of your sexual instincts to writings. Both of you now have revealed to us that you have no respect for women, nor have you any fcuking what religion even is. I hope you enjoy shoving that stuff up your ass, it's NICE! Great Success! your vagine work very well, but your start to recieve hair on your chest, so I will have to go to Pameeela now. Throw Batman and Sultan down the well! Borat twin
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: First of all, this is CAT's brother talking
lol
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
I like CAT's brother already. Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: I like CAT's brother already.
I swear it is my brother, i told him to register & make his own account but he was too lazy, i didnt want him to call people names with my own account LOL Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
I know it is your brother! I swear. Waves hello to CAT's brother. Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
Boahahahahaha!! How old is your brother ya CAT?
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
CATTY UR BRO IS A GAY TROLL?
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: Boahahahahaha!! How old is your brother ya CAT?
He is 18 years old Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: Boahahahahaha!! How old is your brother ya CAT?
He is 18 years old
18 YEARS OLD GAY? SINCE WHEN HE PRACTISE HOMSEXUALITY YA CATTY? Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: CATTY UR BRO IS A GAY TROLL?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: Boahahahahaha!! How old is your brother ya CAT?
He is 18 years old
18 YEARS OLD GAY? SINCE WHEN HE PRACTISE HOMSEXUALITY YA CATTY?
Posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up (Member # 10626) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORGET TO ASK IS UR BRO WITH FORSKIN OR WITHOUT?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
You know, Brat. They say that when someone focuses too much on what they think another person is-it's often because they are trying to hide the FACT they are the one with the issue.
So, tell us, how many men did you have this week and the week before last? Everyone here knows you're a homosexual and you don't hide it too well!!
*Oops* Did I just say that?!! Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: Boahahahahaha!! How old is your brother ya CAT?
He is 18 years old
18 YEARS OLD GAY? SINCE WHEN HE PRACTISE HOMSEXUALITY YA CATTY?
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORGET TO ASK IS UR BRO WITH FORSKIN OR WITHOUT?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
Bass ya magnoon, enta ahbal yallah?
Both you're language & thoughts are so digusting, yuck Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORGET TO ASK IS UR BRO WITH FORSKIN OR WITHOUT?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
You know, Brat. They say that when someone focuses too much on what they think another person is-it's often because they are trying to hide the FACT they are the one with the issue.
So, tell us, how many men did you have this week and the week before last? Everyone here knows you're a homosexual and you don't hide it too well!!
*Oops* Did I just say that?!!
LACKEY ESM 3LA MOSAMMAH " A NAME WITH A MEANING"
U LACK THE GOOD HUMOUR YA SHATRA Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORGET TO ASK IS UR BRO WITH FORSKIN OR WITHOUT?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
You know, Brat. They say that when someone focuses too much on what they think another person is-it's often because they are trying to hide the FACT they are the one with the issue.
So, tell us, how many men did you have this week and the week before last? Everyone here knows you're a homosexual and you don't hide it too well!!
*Oops* Did I just say that?!!
Go Lackey gooooooooo
hehe, actually you took that right out of my mouth Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: FORGET TO ASK IS UR BRO WITH FORSKIN OR WITHOUT?
UR PARENT CIRCMUSIE UR BRO OR NOT YA CATTY?? AM AFRAID UR BRO CATCH SOME ILLNESS FROM OTHER GUYS
Bass ya magnoon, enta ahbal yallah?
Both you're language & thoughts are so digusting, yuck
NOT CIRCUMCISED THOUGHT SO ENTO ILSABAB B2A FE ILLY HAYE7SAL
Posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up (Member # 10626) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
YAWN!!! You wouldn't know good humor if it hit you in the face, you el diablo incarnate!
Try to use some better imagination than that (I know it's a little hard for such a tiny-brained creature such as yourself), but, please try harder!! The more you fight back, the more I just laugh at you!! I'm waiting..........!!! Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: U LACK THE GOOD HUMOUR YA SHATRA [/QB]
Anybody see "good" or even "bad" HUMOR in that at all?
Your, what you call humor, sucks big time ya looser !
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: ENTO ILSABAB B2A FE ILLY HAYE7SAL
Is that some kind of a threat or something? should i be scared? ya mama !
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote: Is that some kind of a threat or something? should i be scared? ya mama !
careless mama can cause HIV infection to their gays sons
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: Is that some kind of a threat or something? should i be scared? ya mama !
careless mama can cause HIV infection to their gays sons
asshole
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
catty i know u don like read but u maylike read this
Circumcision is thought to help protect against HIV because cells under the foreskin are vulnerable to the virus.
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: Is that some kind of a threat or something? should i be scared? ya mama !
careless mama can cause HIV infection to their gays sons
asshole
is it cat bro speaking about assholes ?
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
thers egypytian song say
" ya ommo ilmettaher roshy ilmal7 saba3 marat"
oh mother of a circumcised son thorw salt 7 times
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
''Circumcision is thought to help protect against HIV because cells under the foreskin are vulnerable to the virus''
Batman, are you sure you're not 12? I have this vision of you, and a few of your gormless friends, huddled round the screen, thinking up incredibly witty (to you) things to write. Once you trawl out some old, ridiculous piece of nonsense, you all celebrate with a 'high five' (well, those of you that can count that high do, the rest just point a few fingers.) You should never be let loose on the world...mostly for your own safety. Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: thers egypytian song say
" ya ommo ilmettaher roshy ilmal7 saba3 marat"
oh mother of a circumcised son thorw salt 7 times
Hmmm, well it's not quite as catchy as 'Danny Boy' Batty IS Borat.
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Batman, are you sure you're not 12? [/QB]
hehe....... my 18 year old brother is more mature than that batty boraty
LOL, batty boraaz Posted by Formerly a Lackey,and Moving On Up (Member # 10626) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: thers egypytian song say
" ya ommo ilmettaher roshy ilmal7 saba3 marat"
oh mother of a circumcised son thorw salt 7 times
Hmmm, well it's not quite as catchy as 'Danny Boy' Batty IS Borat.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
^ this is clear example of trolls posts Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Answers from the Bible to Questions about Circumcision
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: ^ this is clear example of trolls posts
And you're a pussy troll Posted by CAT's bro (Member # 13317) on :
Batman, you think I'm gay? I can if you want me to fcuk you up real nice! Remember what happened between Borat and Azamat in the hotel room? History repeats itself my pussical musical fanatical mono-testicle friend. Your crotch is new scientific discovery that proves to humanity that there is a third sex. Do you beat off in the bus or metro? I'm sure you do, in spite of all the children that keep staring at you in amazement. Are you into children? Holy **** !
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by CAT's bro: Batman, you think I'm gay? I can if you want me to fcuk you up real nice! Remember what happened between Borat and Azamat in the hotel room? History repeats itself my pussical musical fanatical mono-testicle friend. Your crotch is new scientific discovery that proves to humanity that there is a third sex. Do you beat off in the bus or metro? I'm sure you do, in spite of all the children that keep staring at you in amazement. Are you into children? Holy **** !
Oh my God!! Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:Originally posted by CAT's bro: Batman, you think I'm gay? I can if you want me to fcuk you up real nice! Remember what happened between Borat and Azamat in the hotel room? History repeats itself my pussical musical fanatical mono-testicle friend. Your crotch is new scientific discovery that proves to humanity that there is a third sex. Do you beat off in the bus or metro? I'm sure you do, in spite of all the children that keep staring at you in amazement. Are you into children? Holy **** !
Oh my God!!
Rumicrazieluv, where have you been? I've missed your posts.
CAT's brother, welcome to ES. Your language sure is colourful and expressive. Despite myself, I laughed out loud, especially the Borat movie scene part. That was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. I closed my eyes, after the first bits. Ha, so did my husband! Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:Originally posted by CAT's bro: Batman, you think I'm gay? I can if you want me to fcuk you up real nice! Remember what happened between Borat and Azamat in the hotel room? History repeats itself my pussical musical fanatical mono-testicle friend. Your crotch is new scientific discovery that proves to humanity that there is a third sex. Do you beat off in the bus or metro? I'm sure you do, in spite of all the children that keep staring at you in amazement. Are you into children? Holy **** !
Oh my God!!
Rumicrazieluv, where have you been? I've missed your posts.
CAT's brother, welcome to ES. Your language sure is colourful and expressive. Despite myself, I laughed out loud, especially the Borat movie scene part. That was one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. I closed my eyes, after the first bits. Ha, so did my husband!
Moved to a new apartment,swys and have had a big pain in the butt getting my network set up. Missed ES and all you wonderful people here, I see I have some catching up to do. I just watched that borat movie last week for the first time, it was so stupid that it was funny. I actually couldnt believe that part either then I pop in here and see reference to it with batty in the same post, I just couldnt think of any thing else to say ......
Posted by CAT's bro (Member # 13317) on :
Thank you Say What You See for your comment. I watch too many movies Borat is one of my favorite movies, I watch it 3 times a day, and I remember Batman every time I see the "fight" scene in the hotel room. I'm wondering what is Batman still doing here, he should disappear! Almost every lady on this forum has rejected/insulted him at least once by now. Man is he going to die a virgin!
Posted by CAT's bro (Member # 13317) on :
Yekshimash! Batty, where are you? I'm thinking about you all the time! yes yes yes, I'm gay gay gay! XXX You remind me of Pamela (C.J) from a town called "Baywatches." You have golden hairs, teeth as white as pearls, and an asshole of a 7 year old. for the first time in my lives, I am in love! You mean to tell me that Batty who I screwed in bed last night, is homosexual? WAWAWEYA! Hi5! Great Success! Although Kazakhstan a great country, it has many problem economic, social and Batman! Throw Batman down the well! WAWAWEYA!
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: [/qb]
Moved to a new apartment,swys and have had a big pain in the butt getting my network set up. Missed ES and all you wonderful people here, I see I have some catching up to do. I just watched that borat movie last week for the first time, it was so stupid that it was funny. I actually couldnt believe that part either then I pop in here and see reference to it with batty in the same post, I just couldnt think of any thing else to say ...... [/QB][/QUOTE]
Glad you are now online again, Rumi...and I hope you're enjoying your new home. Nothing much has changed, same old psychos in new 'frocks'. Just observe the nastiness behind the words and on schedule, the cuckoos pop out of the ES clock. Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
''Throw Batman down the well! WAWAWEYA!'':Catt's Bro 'Wawaweya' cracks me up!
Ha, that part of the movie did make me laugh, especially when the audience joined in! I prefer Ali G to Borat though, as Borat is too vile, for my timid tastes, in parts of the film (like the scene in the bedroom, you described earlier.) Posted by CAT'S BROTHER XFIANCEE (Member # 13322) on :
quote:Originally posted by CAT's bro: Yekshimash! Batty, where are you? I'm thinking about you all the time! yes yes yes, I'm gay gay gay! XXX You remind me of Pamela (C.J) from a town called "Baywatches." You have golden hairs, teeth as white as pearls, and an asshole of a 7 year old. for the first time in my lives, I am in love! You mean to tell me that Batty who I screwed in bed last night, is homosexual? WAWAWEYA! Hi5! Great Success! Although Kazakhstan a great country, it has many problem economic, social and Batman! Throw Batman down the well! WAWAWEYA!
You want to stalk Another guy!! ya Loser. Just to tell you Batman, This guy is neither homosexual nor heterosexual. He is asexual. He's neither a male nor a female. He lied on me for 1 years before I know his secret which he tries to hide. Just wanted to warn you all. Don't ever let this Loser delude you.
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by CAT'S BROTHER XFIANCEE:
quote:Originally posted by CAT's bro: Yekshimash! Batty, where are you? I'm thinking about you all the time! yes yes yes, I'm gay gay gay! XXX You remind me of Pamela (C.J) from a town called "Baywatches." You have golden hairs, teeth as white as pearls, and an asshole of a 7 year old. for the first time in my lives, I am in love! You mean to tell me that Batty who I screwed in bed last night, is homosexual? WAWAWEYA! Hi5! Great Success! Although Kazakhstan a great country, it has many problem economic, social and Batman! Throw Batman down the well! WAWAWEYA!
You want to stalk Another guy!! ya Loser. Just to tell you Batman, This guy is neither homosexual nor heterosexual. He is asexual. He's neither a male nor a female. He lied on me for 1 years before I know his secret which he tries to hide. Just wanted to warn you all. Don't ever let this Loser delude you.
Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa, promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it Posted by KatangaWeBass (Member # 12550) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
Now why don't you two just get married and be over with it already!
Posted by Buck Naked (Member # 13323) on :
quote:Originally posted by KatangaWeBass:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
Now why don't you two just get married and be over with it already!
Look who's talking, you misogynist pig Posted by KatangaWeBass (Member # 12550) on :
quote:Originally posted by Buck Naked:
quote:Originally posted by KatangaWeBass:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
Now why don't you two just get married and be over with it already!
Look who's talking, you misogynist pig
Now why don't you marry them as well and be over with it! One big happy family with the Gamosa - yourself - in the background!
Posted by Buck Naked (Member # 13323) on :
quote:Originally posted by KatangaWeBass:
quote:Originally posted by Buck Naked:
quote:Originally posted by KatangaWeBass:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
Now why don't you two just get married and be over with it already!
Look who's talking, you misogynist pig
Now why don't you marry them as well and be over with it! One big happy family with the Gamosa - yourself - in the background!
You wanna **** with me bitch Posted by Alchemist (Member # 12318) on :
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy Katanga!
Posted by KatangaWeBass (Member # 12550) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alchemist: Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy Katanga!
How are you Posted by Buck Naked (Member # 13323) on :
quote:Originally posted by KatangaWeBass:
quote:Originally posted by Alchemist: Heyyyyyyyyyyyyy Katanga!
How are you
I'm good, thanks for asking Posted by Buck Naked (Member # 13323) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
dumbo
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Bass ya ebn el habla ya troll ya waty ya gay mn ta7t el gamoosa , promoter of female circumsion & violence against women ya mota7'alef
now you hate your self ya catty speaking about racist n u hate racist now u practise racism , judgemental, fanatcsm
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: I'm anoyed by Fanatics, racists, people who are vain, people who think they are always right, peole who are judgemental
now go figure am not insulting u back cuz i hate racism n dont practise it
What does this have to do with racism or fanaticism?
Do me a favor, look those couple of words up on Wikipedia
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
Comparison of the Glans of the Clitoris with the Glans of the Penis
11. Scott, F. Brantley. “Nerve Endings in Glans Clitoris vs. Glans Penis.” Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality. 15.7 (July, 1981), 88.
Several arguments—some by famous sexologists (see, e.g. W. H. Masters, V. E. Johnson, and R. C. Kolodny, Masters and Johnson on Sex and Human Loving, 1986, 32-3)—have been published over the years claiming that the removal of the clitoral hood should not be compared to the removal of the male foreskin, on the ground that the clitoral glans was much more sensitive to stimulation than the male glans. This claim is repeated as fact by several self-identified “experts.” Scott’s brief answer to a question sent to the journal would appear to count against any such claim: “Anatomic studies have shown that on a per centimeter surface area, the number of nerve endings in the glans clitoris is equal to that in the same surface area of the glans penis” (88). The same evidence would seem to support the surgical removal of the clitoral hood, for women who find its presence has the effect of dampening stimulation, on the simple ground that the clitoral glans is so much smaller, and thus offers less opportunity for stimulation than does the male glans.
Batman, why does the clitoris bother you so much? perhaps you shouldn't be with women.... maybe you don't like women...... becuase a woman with a clit is a package....you take it or leave it
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Batman, why does the clitoris bother you so much? perhaps you shouldn't be with women.... maybe you don't like women...... becuase a woman with a clit is a package....you take it or leave it
R U SEXUALLLY EDUCATED CATTY? U NO WAT CLITORIS AND CLITORAL HOOD ?
GO FIGURE N READ
Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT: Batman, why does the clitoris bother you so much? perhaps you shouldn't be with women.... maybe you don't like women...... becuase a woman with a clit is a package....you take it or leave it
R U SEXUALLLY EDUCATED CATTY? U NO WAT CLITORIS AND CLITORAL HOOD ?
GO FIGURE N READ
ha ha ha Posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT (Member # 11953) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: humanist u r ignortant it's crystal clear u have no knowledge about sex ur words about sex mechanism and "exposed clit" is distorted and deluded.
u r ignorant
Isnt it ironic when those who least know about sex.... talk about it the most? And those who dont know a woman's body, never seen or touched one, talk about clits & circumsion? Posted by Otomatik (Member # 13356) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: The same evidence would seem to support the surgical removal of the clitoral hood, for women who find its presence has the effect of dampening stimulation, on the simple ground that the clitoral glans is so much smaller, and thus offers less opportunity for stimulation than does the male glans.
I agree to that. Women who find...... Women not baby girls not underage girls, not routine circumcisions....none of that. That quote refers to grown women who in their judgment(and hopefully with medical consultation) found that they need this surgical procedure. That makes perfect sense.
Posted by Récif corallien (Member # 12656) on :
How Prevalent is Female Circumcision?
It is not practiced in the cradle and of Islam, namely Saudi Arabia. Neither is it practiced in Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia.
In Egypt
The practice of female circumcision is widespread in Egypt. According to the Egyptian Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS) done in 1995, 97% of the ever-married females questioned had been circumcised. The prevalence was only 90%, however, with those with secondary or higher education as well as in the frontier provinces. According to other studies, two thirds of circumcised females showed a partial or total excision of the clitoris and labia minora, while partial or total excision of the clitoris was less common and of the labia minora only was least common. Labia majora excision occurred in one in eleven cases only.
In the Middle East:
Female circumcision is not practiced in the Middle East, or in the countries of the Arab Peninsula, with the exception of Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Oman.
In Bahrain, genital operations are rapidly decreasing, and consist of a cut made over the clitoris.
Sultan you are one sick dude. Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
I would like to mention a certain issue with the Egyptian Demographic Health Survey. If you could get hold of a copy, they explain their data collection methods in detail. There are two main problems with population surveys in Egypt;
first that we dont have a proper "sampling frame" for the population where every single person of the population is listed and a random sample could be appropriately derived. Such a sampling frame is present in the UK, for example, in primary health care records of family doctors because in the UK every person is registered to recive medical care in one GP practice. In absence of an appropriate sampling frame, every time a population survey is done in Egypt, there is some bias in the study sample which reflects in the results.
Second, Egyptian upper classes are much less receptive to door to door survey researchers and are extremely unlikely to participate. This creates further bias in the study sample.
The results are always skewed in terms of socioidemographics and are almost always representative of the lower socioeconomic/educational level part of the population.
As an Egyptian who lived in the better educated part of the society, I am sure that the prevalence of female circumcision is very small in this group. So if a truly representative sample was taken, the effect would be to dilute the present value (97%) quite significantly. In fact, I never heard of female circumcision until i was about 20 and that was from a servant girl who worked for my family. I also remember when I was a medical student (i cant remember which year) and the surgery registrar mentioned female circumcision to us as a problem in the Egyptian middle-lower classes. A significant proportion of those students present were hearing about it for the first time.
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: I would like to mention a certain issue with the Egyptian Demographic Health Survey. If you could get hold of a copy, they explain their data collection methods in detail. There are two main problems with population surveys in Egypt;
first that we dont have a proper "sampling frame" for the population where every single person of the population is listed and a random sample could be appropriately derived. Such a sampling frame is present in the UK, for example, in primary health care records of family doctors because in the UK every person is registered to recive medical care in one GP practice. In absence of an appropriate sampling frame, every time a population survey is done in Egypt, there is some bias in the study sample which reflects in the results.
Second, Egyptian upper classes are much less receptive to door to door survey researchers and are extremely unlikely to participate. This creates further bias in the study sample.
The results are always skewed in terms of socioidemographics and are almost always representative of the lower socioeconomic/educational level part of the population.
As an Egyptian who lived in the better educated part of the society, I am sure that the prevalence of female circumcision is very small in this group. So if a truly representative sample was taken, the effect would be to dilute the present value (97%) quite significantly. In fact, I never heard of female circumcision until i was about 20 and that was from a servant girl who worked for my family. I also remember when I was a medical student (i cant remember which year) and the surgery registrar mentioned female circumcision to us as a problem in the Egyptian middle-lower classes. A significant proportion of those students present were hearing about it for the first time.
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
Homing, what can be done about this problem in Egypt...how would you suggest reaching the masses that are obviously still practicing this. Why are efforts to stop it so slow and controversial? I understand what you are saying about the numbers being skewed and the middle to upper class Egyptians not doing this anymore...but doesn't your heart bleed for the majority of Egyptian women, albeit poor and uneducated still having to endure this?
Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
Humanist, please dont think that there is nothing being done. Efforts have been and still are directed towards this problem. There was a time around the sixties and seventies when the practice hit an all time low. It was banned by law and a lot of health education effort was done over all media; news papers, magazines, television. Religious scholars from the Azhar called to people that the habit is nothing to do with religion. Then came a time when a rise of the 'previously' falling rate of female circumcision could be correlated to the rise of radical Islamic groups preaching a perverted form of Islam and spreading all over the globe like a cancerous growth; the Salafi groups. The danger of these groups is that they grow on people insidiously and people (usually young men and women) often do not realize they are being converted or perverted until too late. They even infiltrated the Azhar as you can see by the bizarre fatwas issued by some Azhary scholars. These groups directed a lot of focused effort to reverse the falling rates of this habit; so much so that even young ladies who escaped having it done to them as little girls are now asking to have it done for themselves, Can u believe this? There was a report on it in some magazine recently.
The problem the Public Health officials are now facing is a complicated health/cultural/religious/political one and it becomes more of a challenge than ever. Add to this the necessity of prioritization of funding for various public health problems where the size of the problem is not the only determinant but also the effect it has on general public health and its cost effectiveness which when applied to the problem of female circumcision would place it lower down the list after much more pressing health needs of the less priviliged Egyptian population.
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
************ ختان الانثي في الطب و الاسلام بين الافراط والتفريط اعداد / د. امال احمد البشير اخصائية طب المجتمع ( امومة و طفولة) المقدمة بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم الحمد لله الذي انعم علينا و اكرمنا بالاسلام و الصلاة و السلام علي سيدنا محمد خاتم النبيين , و المبعوث رحمة للعالمين و علي اله و صحبه اجمعين وبعد : ان الذي دفعني للكتابة في هذا الموضوع المعقد (ختان الانثي في الطب و الاسلام) هو خدمة الاسلام و التقرب الى الله سبحانه و تعالي , و ذلك بالرد علي واحدة من ادق الشبهات التى يروج لها لتشكيك المراة -المسلمة وغير المسلمة - في رحمة الاسلام بها و تكريمه لها , كما كرم اخاها الرجل , قال تعالي: ( ولقد كرمنا بني ادم و حملناهم في البر و البحر و رزقناهم من الطيبات و فضلناهم علي كثير ممن خلقنا تفضيلا ) .1 "سورة الاسراء اية 70 تقول الكاتبة الامريكية ايلين قرونبام (Ellen Gruenbaum) :2 ترجمة من مقال منشور للكاتبة, (انظر المرجع رقم 21) ( يعتبر ختان البنات من العادات الضارة التي يجب التخلص منها لانها تمتهن انسانية المراة و تمثل جزءا من الترتيبات الاجتماعية و الثقافية التى تزيد من خضوع المراة و سيطرة الرجل عليها . فالمراة في المجتمعات المسلمة الاصولية تعتمد اجتماعيا و ماديا علي دورها كزوجة و ام , و لذلك فهي تحرص كل الحرص علي الحصول علي زوج لها ولبناتها , ولا يمكنها الحصول علي هذا الزوج الا اذا حافظت علي عفتها و عفة بناتها بواسطة الختان و لذلك لا يمكن التخلص من عادة الختان الا اذا استقلت المراة اقتصاديا عن الرجل و اتيحت لها فرصة التعليم و العمل خارج المنزل). كما تعرضت الكاتبة في مقالها لشبهات اخري حول مكانة المراة في الاسلام. فتحدثت عن الارث , و الطلاق , وسن الزواج , وقوامة الرجل , وخضوع المراة في الاسرة , و تعدد الزوجات , و الحجاب و النقاب و ما اسمته بتحديد حركة المراة . وبعون من الله تعالي قمت فى هذا البحث البسيط بالرد على بعض هذه الشبهات . وقد ركزت على موضوع( ختان الانثي ) لانني لم اعثر على مولف منفرد يناقش هذا الموضوع رغم اهميته 1 (في دراسة اجريت عام 1991 بمنطقة ام شانق , بالسودان وجد ان 99.1 % من الامهات يعزمن علي ختن بناتهن و ان 89.4 % يصررن علي عمل الخفاض الفرعوني "انظر المرجع رقم 19") و رغم ما فيه من تضارب بين اقوال علماء المسلمين و اقوال الاطباء. وقد ادي هذا التضارب الى تفريط بعض الناس و تركهم لختان الانثي نهائيا او افراط البعض الاخر ووقوعهم في الممارسات الخاطئة. فكانت هذه المحاولة المتواضعة لازالة ما قد يبدو من تناقض. و مما شجعني علي المضي في هذا الموضوع- الذى يمس الحياء- واعطاني بعض الجرأة علي نشره هو قول ام المؤمنيين عائشة رضي الله عنها : (نعم النساء نساء الانصار لم يمنعهن الحياء من ان يتفقهن فى الدين) 2( اخرجه البخاري في كتاب العلم (1/276)باب الحياء في العلم) و قوله تعالي ...و الله لا يستحى من الحق ...) 3 (سورة الاحزاب الاية53 )
تعريف الختان في اللغة و الشرع جاء في( لسان العرب)1 :لسان العرب المجلد الثالث عشر, ص 137-138 ختن الغلام والجارية يختنهما ختنا. وقيل الختن للرجال و الخفض للنساء. و الختان موضع الختن من الذكر, و موضع القطع من نواة الجارية. كما روي عن النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم(اذا التقي الختانان فقد وجب الغسل)2 اسناده صحيح اخرجه الامام احمد في مسنده (6/161) ومن هذا التعريف يتضح لنا انه لافرق بين المعنى اللغوى و الشرعي للختان. حكم الاسلام في ختان الانثي يقول ابن القيم1:تحفة المودود باحكام المولود,ص115 (لاخلاف فى استحباب الختان للانثي و اختلف في وجوبه). كما يقول فضيلة الشيخ محمود شلتوت عضو جماعة كبار العلماء2 :نقلا عن كتاب الختان ,لابي بكر عبد الرازق ص87 (الختان شأن قديم ترجع معرفة الناس به الي عهد ابراهيم عليه السلام و كانوا يختنون الذكور و الاناث, وقد رويت فيه عن النبي صلي اله عليه وسلم عدة احاديث اتفق المحدثون علي صحة بعضها ,و ضعف البعض الاخر, فما اتفق عليه قول النبي صلي الله عليه وسلم: (خمس من الفطرة : الختان و الاستحداد و قص الشارب و تقليم الاظافر و نتف الابط)3 اسناده صحيح اخرجه البخاري(7/206),و مسلم(3/146) ومما ناله تضعيف المحدثين:حديث (الختان سنة في الرجال مكرمة فى النساء)4 اسناده ضعيف اخرجه الامام احمد في مسنده(5/75) , و قوله صلي الله عليه و سلم للمراة التي تختن الاناث أشمى ولا تنهكى فانه احظى للزوج واسري للوجه)5 اسناده ضعيف,اخرجه الامام احمد فى مسنده(6/433) . وامام هذه الاحاديث اختلف الفقهاء فى حكم الختان , شانهم في كل ما لم يرد فيه نص صريح قاطع . فراي الشافعية انه واجب في الذكور و الاناث , ووافقهم الحنابلة على الوجوب في الذكور فقط , وراى الحنفية و المالكية انه سنة سنة في الذكور و مكرمة في الاناث , وقد قال الامام الشوكانى : (و الحق انه لم يقم دليل صحيح يدل علي الوجوب , و المتيقن السنية , كما في حديث-خمس من الفطرة -ونحوه,و الواجب الوقوف على المتيقن الى ان يقوم ما يوجب الانتقال عنه). و من هنا يتبين ان الادلة لا تعطي اكثر من ان الختان سنة , وقد كان العموم فى حديث السنية الصحيح وهو(خمس من الفطرة)يقضى بالمساواة بين الذكر و الانثي فى سنية الختان, ولكن كثيرا من المذاهب راى انه مكرمة فى الاناث و سنة فى الذكور)). و سنوضح من خلال هذا البحث اننا نرجح الراى الذى يقول بالمساواة بين الذكر والانثي فى سنية الختان. الجهاز التناسلى للمراة تتكون اعضاء المراة التناسلية من اجزاء داخلية و اخرى خارجية. الاجزاء الداخلية: وهذه تشمل : المبيضان و الرحم وقناتا الرحم و المهبل(vagina) و يحازى المهبل من الامام قتاة مجرى البول(urethra) و من الخلف المستقيم(rectum). 2 . الاجزاء الخارجية : يبين الشكل ادناه الاجزاء الخارجية للجهاز التناسلي للانثي و تشمل فتحة المهبل (او الفرج) (vaginal opening) و يغطيها غشاء البكارة قبل الزواج و توجد فوقها فتحة قناة مجرى البول (urethral meatus) بينما يوجد الشرج(anus) تحت فتحة المهبل . و يوجد الشفران الصغيران و الكبيران على جانبى فتحة المهبل و فتحة مجري البول. ويقع البظر (clitoris) عند التقاء الشفرين الصغيرين فوق فتحة قناة مجري البول. و البظر عضو انتصابى صغير يقابل القضيب (penis) عند الرجل. و طرف ( او حشفة ) البظر (glans of clitoris) حساس جدا للمس كحشفة القضيب (glans of penis) و تغطى حشفة البظر حلدة تسمي القلفة (prepuce or preputium) تماما كما تغطي حشفة القضيب قلفة و تسمى قلفة البظر عذرة (perputium clitoridis)11ما غلفة القضيب فتسمي غرلة (perputium penis) و لقلفة البظر نفس عيوب القلفة في الرجل, اذ تتجمع فيها الافرازات (smegma clitoridis)2" انظر المرجع رقم 22 ص 1297" ( 1 انظر المرجع رقم 20 ص 348 و رقم 22 ص 1135 ) و تنمو الميكروبات. وبعد هذا الشرح المبسط للاعضاء الخارجية للانثي علينا ان نتامل جدوى نزع او ازالة ما يسمى بالعذرة او القلفة التى تغطى حشفة البظر في الانثي. طرق الختان فى الانثي
يمارس ختان الانثي في مناطق كثيرة من العالم و بطرق مختلفة. جميع هذة الطرق يضر بصحة المراة , عدا طريقة و احدة ذكرها كثير من علماء المسلمين وقليل من الاطباء.1
. الطريقة الصحيحة ( الختان الشرعي او السني)
يقول ابن القيم 1(تحفة المودود باحكام المولود ص 113-114) ( عرف ابن الصباغ في الشامل الختان فقال : ( الواجب علي الرجل ان يقطع الجلدة التى على الحشفة حتى تنكشف جميعها . اما المراة فلها عذرة كعرف الديك فى اعلى الفرج بين الشفرين تقطع و يبقى اصلها كالنواة ) و قال الماوردي : ( و اما خفض المراة فهو قطع جلدة فى الفرج فوق مدخل الذكر و مخرج البول على اصل كالنواة و يؤخذ منه الجلدة المستعلية دون اصلها)) وسئل شيخ الاسلام ابن تيمية عن المراة هل تختن ام لا؟2(مجموع فتاوى الشيخ ابن تيمية, المجلد 21 ص114) فأجاب : (( نعم , وختانها ان تقطع اعلى الجلدة التى كعرف الديك, قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم -للخافضة-و هى الخاتنة-: ( اشمي ولا تنهكي , فانه ابهي للوجه و احظي لها عند الزوج.))) كما يقول الدكتور محمد على البار ( مستشار الطب الاسلامي فى مركز الملك فهد للبحوث الاسلامية بجدة)3 الامراض الجنسية ص 417 ( الختان هو اخذ القلفة التى تكون على القضيب او الغشاء الذى يكون على بظر الانثي) و ذكر الدكتور حامد رشوان 1(اسباب محاربة الخفاض فى السودان د.عبد السلام و د. امنة و اخرون) اخصائي النساء و الولادة ان خفاض السنة يعنى قطع الجلدة ام القلفة التى تغطى البظر. و جاء فى كتاب( العادات التى تؤثر على صحة النساء و الاطفال) 2 انظر المرجع رقم 23 ) الذى صدر عن منظمة الصحة العالمية عام 1979م ما ياتى: (( ان الخفاض الاصلي للاناث : " circumcision proper" هو الاستيصال الدائري لقلفة البظر وهو شبيه بختان الذكور و يعرف فى الاقطار الاسلامية بخفاض السنة ... وهذا النوع لم تذكر له اي اثار ضارة على الصحة...)) و بالمقارنة بين اقوال هؤلاء العلماء و الاطباء و ما وضحناه سابقا من الاجزاء الخارجية للجهاز التناسلي للمراة يتبين لنا ان المقصود بالجلدة و العذرة و الغشاء هو قلفة البظر. اما النواة فتعني حشفة البظر. و معنى هذا ان ختان السنة (اي الختان الشرعي) يعنى قطع قلفة البظر فقط وترك الحشفة مكشوفة لتسهل نظافتها, و لكي تعطي المراة حقها الكامل فى التمتع بالمعاشرة الزوجية-كما وضحنا فى هذا البحث- (انظر ص 22-27), واى زيادة فى ذلك (سواء كانت من البظر او من الشفرين الصغيرين او الكبيرين) تكون مخالفة لختان السنة و تضر بصحةالمراة ولا تنفعها. و قد اوصانا المصطفى صلي الله عليه و سلم بالنساء خيرا حيث قال فى حجة الوداع (استوصوا بالنساء خيرا...). و يمكن ان نترجم ختان الانثي الى اللغة الانجليزية ب(prepucectommy = قطع القلفة) 1 وهذه تعني الختان الذى شرعه الاسلام للمراة و الرجل على السواء)) و ليس (clitoridectomy = قطع كل البظر )2 انظر المرجع رقم 20 ص92)) او (clitoridotomy = قطع جزء من البظر )3 نفس المرجع و الصفحة)) كما هو معروف و متناقل فى المتب و ينسبه البعض الى الاسلام.
تنبيه: هنالك خطأ يقع فيه كثير ممن يمارس الختان الشرعي للانثي (اي قطع قلفة البظر فقط) وهو انه بعد قطع القلفة يلصق جانبا الجلد المقطوع مما يؤدى الى تغطية البظر مرة اخرى. و الصحيح هو ان يكون القطع دائريا و الخياطة دائرية ذلك اذا احتجنا لها لوقف نزيف الدم من بعض الشعيرات الدموية (تماما كما نفعل فى ختان الرجل).مع ملاحظة ان قلفة البظر تغطى فقط السطح الامامى للحشفة.2
. الطرق الخاطئة و منها : 4
(القطع من البظر يكون معه بالضرورة قطع للقلفة التى تغطيه) " الختان الفرعونى : (يقطع البظر4 , الشفرين الصغيرين وكل او جزء كبير من الشفرين الكبيرين و يضم الجرح ليلتصق و يترك ثقب صغير ليخرج البول و دم الحيض )5 اسباب محاربة الخفاض في السودان ,د.عبد السلام و د. امنة, واخرون )) " الطهور الجديد او المتوسط : ( وهو درجات متفاوتة و يعمل حسب الرغبة . وفى كل الدرجات يبتر البظر (clitoridectomy) و جزء من الشفرين الصغيرين و يخاط الجانبان )6 نفس المرجع)) وقد نبهت بعض الطبيبات الى ان خياطة الشفرين بعضهما مع بعض و التصاق الجانبين , يؤدي الى تغطية فتحة مجري البول و يخلق فراغا داخليا تتجمع فيه الاوساخ و تصعب نظافته . كذلك تصعب الطهارة من البول لاداء الصلاة و العبادات الاخري , فقد يقع بذلك الاثم على من يقوم بهذه العملية و على من يطلب عملها , والله اعلم. كما ان الثقب الصغير الذى يترك يسبب معاناة نفسية و جسدية للمراة و الرجل بداية حياتهما الزوجية . " قطع جزء من البظر (clitoridotomy): وهذا يحدث فى بعض البلاد الاسلامية التى يمارس فيها ختان الانثي ظنا منهم ان هذه هى الطريقة الصحيحة لختان السنة. يقول الدكتور حامد الغوابى1 نقلا عن كتاب الختان لابى بكر عبد الرازق ص50) : ( اخر ما راه الطب خاصة فى مؤتمر الطب الاسلامي هو ان عملية الختان ان لا يقطع البظرمن جذوره بل يقطع جزء منه فتقطع الحشفة و جزء من العضو , و هذا الجزء الاعلى هو ذو الحساسية الشديدة , ثم يبقى جزء منه توجد فيه ايضا الحساسية و لكن بدرجة اقل ). " اما الدكتور محمد على البار فقد ذكر الطريقة الصحيحة لختان السنة في المراة , في كتابه (الامراض الجنسية-ص14 ) , الا انه عدل عن ذلك في كتابه (خلق الانسان بين الطب و الاسلام-ص33 ) حيث قال: ( و الختان فى النساء سنة و يقطع شئ من البظر). اقول : ان هذه الطريقة مخالفة للسنة كما شرحنا سابقا و تؤدى الى ضرر بالمراة.(لا ضرر ولا ضرار) .
" قطع جزء من القلفة: قال الشيخ منصور بن يونس البهوتى2 نقلا عن كتاب سنن الفطرة, للامين محمد احمد ص 42) : ( ويجب ختان الانثي باخذ جلدة فوق محل الايلاج تشبه عرف الديك , و يستحب الا تؤخذ كلها نصا لحديث (اخفضي ولا تنهكي) . للزوج جبر زوجته المسلمة عليه). قلت : كلمة جلدة هنا لها ثلاثة احتمالات : الاحتمال الاول هو : انها استعملت لتعنى البظر مع قلفته و قصد بعدم اخذ الجلدة كلها و قطع بعضها اى قطع القلفة فقط و ترك البظر , كما في الختان الشرعي للانثي. اما الاحتمال الثانى فهو : ان يكون المقصود بالجلدة هو قلفة البظر فيكون المعني هو اخذ بعض القلفة , فيكون ذلك مخالفا لطريقة ختان الانثي الذي شرعه الاسلام وهو قطع كل الجلدة (القلفة) و ترك اصلها (حشفة البظر) مكشوفا تماما فتتحقق بذلك الحكمة من الختان. الاحتمال الثالث هو : ان يكون المقصود بالجلدة هو البظر فيكون المعني هو اخذ بعض البظر و هذا ايضا مخالفا للختان الشرعى للانثي . " ومن الممارسات الخاطئة كذلك : اعادة عملية الختان بعد الزواج و الولادة -على الاخص-ظنا منهم ان ذلك سيجعل المراة كالبكر 1 يعرف ذلك في السودان بالعدلة), وقد اخبرنا القران الكريم ان الله سبحانه وتعالي هو وحده القادر علي اعادة الزوجة بكرا , مكافاة لزوجها في الجنة , قال تعالي (انا انشاناهن انشاء فجعلناهن ابكارا عربا اترابا لاصحاب اليمين)2 الواقعة الايات(35-38) فلا داعي اذن لتعذيب المراة فى الدنيا بالعمليات الجراحية المتكررة و بالالم عند المعاشرة الزوجية , وتعذيبها في الاخرة بعدم صحة طهارتها وعبادتها 3 انظر ص 19), ولاطاعة لمخلوق في معصية الخالق. نسال الله تعالي ان يهدينا لما فيه سعادة الدنيا و الاخرة لعباده ..امين.
موانع ختان الانثي و مضاعفاته ان ختان الانثي الذى شرعه الاسلام عملية جراحية بسيطة و مأمونة اذا ما اجريت من قبل طبيبة او قابلة خبيرة و مدربة و كانت الادوات معقمة .ومضاعفاته نادرة جدا لا تتعدى مضاعفات العمليات البسيطة الاخري كحدوث نزف بسيط يسهل علاجه او التهاب خفيف . يقول الدكتور شوين 1 نقلا عن كتاب اسرار الختان,د.حسان شمسي باشا ص 63 ): (ان فوائد الختان الروتينى عند الوليدين كوسيلة صحية ووقائية تفوق كل المخاطر المزعومة للختان). اما موانع ختان الانثي فهي مطابقة للموانع التي ذكرت بالنسبة لختان الذكر . يقول ابن القيم: 2 تحفة المودود باحكام المولود ,ص118-120) (يسقط وجوب الختان بعدة امور منها : ان يولد الرجل و لا قلفة له .ان يسلم الرجل كبيرا ويجاف على نفسه منه .كما يسقط بالموت , ولا يقاس بحلق العانة و نتف الابط و قص الشارب للميت) ويقول د. حسان شمسي باشا 3 المرجع السابق ص64 (يجب الا يجري الختان عند طفل مريض غير مستقر .و عند طفل مصاب بتشوهات خلقية في الاعضاء التناسلية . كما يجب ان تجري الفحوصات المناسبة عند الوليد اذا كانت هناك قصة امراض دموية (كقصة نزف دموي) في العائلة)) و من اهم موانع ختان الانثي كذلك عدم وجود خاتنة خبيرة و مدربة على الختان الشرعي (السنة) , فيمكن في هذه الحالة تأجيل ختان البنت الى حين وجود مثل هذه الخاتنة ذلك لان ضرر الختان الخاطئ اكبر من ضرر التاجيل . ويمكن ازالة قلفة البظر كعملية جراحية عادية فى اى مرحلة من مراحل عمر الفتاة.4 (يمكن انلا يذكر لفظ الختان فى هذه الحالة حتي لا يكون هنالك حرج للفتاة اذا كبر سنها.) الحكمة من مشروعية ختان الانثي يقول ابن القيم1 (تحفة المودود باحكام المولود ص109-112) : ( الختان من محاسن الشرائع التى شرعها الله تعالى لعباده ... وهو علم للدخول في ملة ابراهيم .و هذا موافق لتأويل من تأول قوله تعالي : ( صبغة الله ومن احسن من الله صبغة ونحن له عابدون) 2 البقرة138 علي الختان . و المقصود ان صبغة الله هى الحنيفية التى صبغت القلوب بمعرفة الله تعالي و محبته و الاخلاص له و عبادته و حده لا شريك له , و صبغت الابدان بخصال الفطرة من الختان و قص الشارب و تقليم الاظافر و الاستحداد و نتف الابط و المضمضة والاستنشاق والسواك و الاستنجاء , فظهرت فطرة الله علي قلوب الحنفاء و ابدانهم فيعرف الناس ان من كان كذلك فهو من عبيد الله الحنفاء فيكون ذلك علما لهذه النسبة التى لا اشرف منها .. وقد كانت هذه الخصال من الفطرة لان الفطرة هى الحنيفية ملة ابراهيم , و خصال الفطرة من الكلمات التى ابتلى الله تعالي بهن ابراهيم(عليه السلام) ...فلما اتمهن جعله اماما للناس ...و قد اشتركت خصال الفطرة في الطهارة و النظافة و التزيين واخذ الفضلات المستقذرة التى يالفها الشيطان ويجاورها من بنى ادم ...هذا مع ما في الختان منتعديل للشهوة التى اذا افرطت الحقت الانسان بالحيوانات , وان عدمت بالكلية الحقته بالجمادات . و لهذا تجد الاقلف من الرجال و القلفاء من النساء لا يشبع من الجماع 3))الجماع فى الاسلام يقصد به المعاشرة الزوجية بعد العقد الشرعي). وقد اشار الامام ابن القيم الى سبب عدم شبع الاقلف من الجماع ,عند حديثه عن الحكمة التى لاجلها يعاد بنو ادم غرلا 4 قلفا ) حيث قال ( وعد الله سبحانه وتعالى انه يعيد الخلق كما بداهم اول مرة من تمام اعضائهم قال تعالي(كما بداكم تعودون)1 الاعراف 29 ,فان الختان انما شرع في الدنيا لتكميل الطهارة و التنزه من البول , واهل الجنة لا يبولون ولا يتغوطون , فليس هنالك نجاسة تصيب الغرلة . كما ان القلفة في الجنة لا تمنع لذة الجماع و لا تعوقه))2 نفس المرجع ص125 . و قد اتفق هذا التفسير مع ما جاءفي كتاب (العادات التى تؤثر على صحة النساء و الاطفال)3 انظر المرجع رقم 23 و الذي ذكر فيه : ((ان الخفاض الاصلي للاناث :circumcision proper يمارس ايضا في بعض الاحيان فى الولايات المتحدة الامريكية لمعالجة عدم حدوث هزة الجماع orgasmعند المراة فى حالة زيادة قلفة البظر او ضيقها...)) و لتوضيح ذلك اكثر اقول : ان الاقلف لا يشبع من الجماع ذلك لان العضو الحساس منه , وهو حشفة القضيب او البظر , قد غطي بالقلفة و هى جلد اقل حساسية يمنع الاحساس بالمتعة الكاملة , فيبقي الاقلف من الرجال و النساء فى بحث متواصل لاشباع رغبته لهذا السبب. وهنا يمكن القول ان خفاض السنة يحقق للمراة اكتمال متعة المعاشرة الزوجية مما يدخل السرور فى نفسها فيزداد بهاء وجهها و يسعد زوجها , وقد بدا لي هذا الفهم من قول الرسول صلي الله عليه و سلم لام عطية رضي الله عنها : (اشمي و لا تنهكي فانه احظي للزوج و اسري للوجه)4اسناده ضعيف ,اخرجه الامام احمدفى مسنده(6/433) .. و الله اعلم. فوائد ختان الانثي يقول فضيلة الاستاذ محمد محمد اللبان 1: (نقلاعن كتاب الختان لابي بكر عبد الرازق ص85 (( فى ختان الانثي تزال تلك الزائدة التى تمنع من وصول المياه المطهرة الي الداخل فيصعب نقاء دقاء الحيض و البول مما يؤدي الى الروائح الكريهة) )2و لهذا فان كثير من المسلمين يطلقون علي عملية الختان الطهارة او الطهور ) كما قدم الدكتور البار الى المجمع الفقهي برابطة العالم الاسلامي بمكة المكرمة بحثا جاء فيه3نقلا عن كتاب اسرار الختان د .حسان شمسي باشا ص100 : (( ان ختان الانثي او خفضا الذى ورد فى لسنة له محاسن كثيرة ذكرها الباحثون فى المؤتمر الطبي الاسلامي عن (الشريعة القضايا الطبية المعاصرة).هذه الفوائد يمكن ان نجملها فيما يلى : " ذهاب الغلمة والشبق 4 (الغلمة و الشبق تعنى شدة الشهوة و الانشغال بها و الافرط فيها و ذهابهما يعنى تعديل الشهوة)عن المختونين من الرجال و النساء " منع الالتهابات نتيجة تجمع اللخن 5 (افرازات دهنية تتجمع تحت القلفة عند غير المختونين من الذكور و الاناث) {smegma}و الميكروبات تحت قلفة الذكور و الاناث. " انخفاض حدوث السرطان لدى الذكور و الاناث من المختونين. " ان الاصابة بالهربس التناسلي {Genital Herpes } و القرحة الرخوة {chancroid} و الورم المغبني {Granuloma Inguinale} تكون اقل حدة عند المختونين من الرجال و النساء على سواء.((كما يقول الدكتور صبري القبانى في كتابه "حياتن الجنسية" و في الختان بعض الفوائد نذكر منها: " بقطع القلفة يتخلص المرء من الافرازات الدهنية المقززة للنفس , و يحال دون امكان الانتان و الالتهابات. " يخفف الختان من كثرة استعمال العادة السرية لدي البالغين لان افرازات القلفة تثير الاعصاب التناسلية حول الحشفة و تدعو المراهق الى حكها و الاستزادة من مداعبة عضوه)) 1 نقلا عن كتاب تربية الاولاد فى الاسلام ص116 ) و قد اشير الى هذا المعنى في جريدة الانقاذ الوطني 2 الخرطوم -2جمادي الاجرة 1415ه -5 نوفمبر 1994 العدد (1732) فى موضوع تحت عنوان (طبيبة امريكية تطالب بختان البنات) جاء فيه (( حذرت الطبيبة الامريكية اي-بي-لوري فى كتاب اصدرته متضمنا خبرتها الطويلة فى مجال التعامل مع الاناث -من عدم ختان البنات. قالت فى كتابها و عنوانه (Herself اي نفسها) , ان عذرة3 (عذرة هنا ربما قصد بها ترجمة لكلمة {clitoris} التى تعنى البظر. و كما ذكرنا فان قلفة الانثي هي التى تسمي عذرة "انظر ص15" ) الانثي بها قلفة امامية صغيرة مطوية فوقها لحماية نهايتها الحساسة , واحيانا ما تكون هذه القلفة معقوفة لاسفل بشدة -فبدلا من ان تكون وقاية فانها تكون مصدر للتهيج ,لان الافرازات الطبيعية تحتجز تحتها -وكم من امراة كانت عصبية طوال حياتها بسبب قلفة معقوفة , وهو ما يمكن تصحيحه بعملية فى منتهى البساطة. و اشارت الطبيبة الى ان العلاج يكون احيانا بالتربية -ولكن الختان المبكر فى سن الطفولة للبنت يكون علاجا مؤكدا -و قالت :ان القلفة المعقوفة ينتج عنها تهيج دائم يعود الى ممارسات مؤذية للفتاة وقد يفضي الى ممارسات شاذة وله صلة بالحياة غير السوية لبعض البنات. وتقول مجلة اللانست البريطانية 1(نقلا عن كتاب اسرار الختان ,د. حسان شمسي باشا ص40 ) في مقال نشر عام 1989م : ((ان ختان الاطفال فى الفترة الاولى من العمر يمكن ان يخفض نسبة التهاب المجاري البولية عند الاطفال بنسبة 90% وتؤكد الدراسات التى اجريت فى هذا المجال ان الاعضاء الجنسية عند الذكور هى عامل هام -كما هى عند الاناث -في احداث التهابات المجاري البولية و الكليتين.ووجد ان هذه الالتهابات-بما قد تسببه من مضاعفات {complications} -يمكن منعه باستئصال قطعة جلدية صغيرة و سليمة هى القلفة)). وقد ثبت ان في اللخن {smegma} مادة تسبب السرطان و اشارت الدراسات الحديثة الى ان هذه المادة هى فيروس يدعى papillovirus . وقد تمكن الباحثون من عزل هذا الفيروس من المرضي المصابين بسرطان القضيب ومن المصابات بسرطان الفرج وسرطان عنق الرحم . ومن العوامل المهيئة كذلك لحدوث السرطان التهاب الحشفة {Balanitis} و تضيق القلفة{phimosis} وهذه تحدث من احتباس اللخن خلف القلفة2.(نفس المرجع ص42-44) وبالرجوع لاقوال هؤلاء العلماء والاطباء 3 انظر ص22-26,نلاحظ ان فوائد ختان الانثي قد انحصرت في فائدتين ,مطابقتين لفوائد ختان الذكر,هما: 1. النظافة: فبعد قطع قلفة البظر تسهل النظافة من الافرازات الطبيعية ومن دماء الحيض و البول, وهذا مهم لاكتمال طهارة المراة المسلمة لاداء عبادتها ,قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم (الطهور شطر الايمان)1"صحيح مسلم ج1,كتاب الطهارة,بابفضل الوضوء,ص203 "كما ان النظافة تقي المراة من كثير من الامراض العضوية والنفسية. 2. تعديل الشهوة وتقليل الانشغال بها,ويكون ذلك بطريقتين: " ازالة قلفة البظر التى تقلل من متعة الجماع فتكتمل اللذة ويحدث الشبع الذي يقلل من الانشغال بهذه الشهوة والافراط فيها.ويكون ذلك للمتزوجات. " كذلك فان ازالة قلفة البظر يمنع احتجاز الافرازات الطبيعية تحتها وبذلك يزول سبب الاثارة المتكررة للاعصاب التناسلية حول الحشفة , مما يقلل الحك و التهيج. وتشترك فى ذلك المتزوجات و غيرهن من النساء.
والذي بدا لى بعد هذا البحث البسيط هو ان الفوائد جميعها متساوية 2(يعتقد البعض ان مرور مجري البول خلال القلفة يزيد من اهمية الختان فى الذكورولكن وجود دم الحيض ربما زاد كذلك من احتمال تلوث و التهاب القلفةفي الانثي) بالنسبة للختان فى الذكر و الانثي .ولهذا يمكننا ترجيح ما ذكره الشيخ محمود شلتوت3 (انظر ص13) من ان العموم فى حديث السنى الصحيح (خمس من الفطرة)يقضي بالمساواة بين الذكر و الانثي فى سنية الختان..والله اعلم.] اراء خاطئة عن الحكمة من ختان الانثي و الرد عليها
هنالك خطأ غير مقصود وقع فيه كثير ممن تحدث عن الحكمة من مشروعية ختان الانثي, حيث انهم قالوا انه مكرمة لها لانه يمنع عنها الدوافع التى تثير الرغبة الجنسية لديها مما يؤدي الى المحافظة على العفة و الشرف ومن امثلة هذه الاراء ما ياتى: يقول الدكتور محمد نزار الدقر و الدكتور محمد وليد في مقال بعنوان (الختان بين الطب و الاسلام)1 نقلا عن كتاب اسرار الختان ,د.حسان شمسي باشا ص93 : (تتضح الحكمة الصحية من الختان عند الرجال اكثر منها عند النساء ,و نستطيع ان نقول انه فى البلاد ذات الطقس الحار كما فى السودان و غيرها من المناطق الافريقية وفى مصر و الجزيرة العربية فانه يغلب ان يكون للنساء بظر نام مما يزيد فى الشهوة الجنسية لدى احتكاكه بما جاوره من بدن وثياب اثناء المشي ,وقد يكون شديد النمو الى درجة يستحيل معها الجماع ومن هذا وجب استئصال مقدم البظر فى مثل هذه الظروف لتعديل الشهوة و لجعل الجماع ممكنا فى الحالة الثانية). وقال ابن الحاج فى المدخل2 نقلا عن كتاب سنن الفطرة, الامين محمد احمد ص43 (واختلف فى حقهن هل يخفضن مطلقا او يفرق بين اهل المشرق واهل المغرب ؟ فأهل المشرق يؤمرن به لوجود الفضلة عندهن من اصل الخلقة ,واهل المغرب لا يؤمرن به لعدمها عندهن .وذلك راجع الى مقتضي التعليل فيمن ولد مختونا فكذلك هنا سواء بسواء). كما يقول محمد ابراهيم رئيس المحكمة العليا الشرعية1: نقلا عن كتاب الختان لابي بكر عبد الرازق ص 81 ( ختان البنات عادة قديمة من عادات العرب توارثوها عن ابائهم و اجدادهم من اقدم العصور .وقد جاء الاسلام واقر هذه العادة لما فيها من الخير و المصلحة للمراة نفسها و للمجتمع .وهذا الختان الذى اعتبرته الشريعة الاسلامية مكرمة هو ازالة الجزء البارز من البظر المرتفع عن البشرة لينخفض الى مستواها حتى لا يكون عرضة للتهيج من الحركة او الملابس او ركوب الدواب او نحو ذلك.وقد اجمع الفقهاء على استحسان ختان البنات لما فيه من الحفظ و الصيانة من التعرض للالتهابات العضوية و التضخم فى اجهزة التناسل الظاهرية, والانفعالات النفسية ,واثارة الغريزة الجنسية, التى تؤدى الى الالتهاب العصبى فى حالة كبتها, او الى السقوط فى مهاوى الرذيلة اذا اطلقت من عقالها, خاصة فى سن الشباب ونشاط الغدة التناسلية. ولا شك فى ان ختان البنت على هذا الوجه-ازالة الجزء البارز فقط وابقاء الجزء الكامن- يكسبها صحة فى الجسم,وجملا فى الانوثة,وصيانة فى الخلق, ومناعة فى العفة و الشرف,مع الابقاء على الحساسية الجنسية بالقدر المناسب الذى لا شطط فيه ). ويقول الدكتور محمد علي البار2: خلق الانسان بين الطب و الاسلام,ص45-46 (البظر حساس جدا للمس كالحشفة تماما وهو مما يزيد الغلمة و الشبق 3 انظر هامش (4)ص24 و لذا جاء فى الحديث الخفض منه قليلا وفي نفس الوقت على الخاتنة ان تشم ولا تنهك فان ذلك احظي للمراة عند زوجها وادعى الاتصاب بالبرود الجنسي. كما ان الاخذ منه ادعى لتقليل الغلمة و الشبق و دواعى الزنا.. وخاصة اذا لم يقدر للمراة ان تتزوج ..او تايمت بعد زواج بموت او طلاق). ونرد على الاراء الاربعة بلاتى :
" مما ذكرنا سابقا (انظر صفحة 22-27) فان الحكمة الصحية لختان الانثي قد وضحت -ولله الحمد-كوضوحها عند الرجال. " هنالك حالات نادرة جدا(كما فىالذكر) تولد فيها الانثي و هى مختونة (اى ليس لها قلفة تغطي البظر)وهذه الحالات تحددها الطبيبة او الخاتنة المدربة قبل اتخاذ قرار عمل الختان للانثي. " ان وجود بظر نام لا علاقة له بالمناطق الحارة و ربما كانت هنالك حالات مرضية او خلقية, وكذلك الحال بالنسبة للتضخم فى اجهزة التناسل الظاهرية, وهذه الحالات تعالج بعد تشخيص كل حالة على حدة ,و لاعلاقة لذلك بختان الانثي . " ان الفضلة الزائدة التى تكون محلا للختان فى الانثي هي قلفة البظر وهى موجودة فى كل نساء العالم ولا فرق بين اهل المشرق و اهل المغرب في ذلك.و القلفة عبارة عن جلدة فقط, وقطعها لا يؤدى الى تقليل الرغبة الجنسية للمراة. " بالرغم من ان الدكتور البار قد اشار الى الحكمة الصحيحة لختان الانثي,حيث قال 1 نفس المرجع ص33 بقاء القلفة يزيد الغلمة و الشبق فى الرجال و النساء ),كما انه قد ذكر ان موضع الختان فى الانثي هو قلفة البظر (انظرص16 ). الا انه قد عاد وفسر الخفض بقطع جزء من البظر, ولم يذكر قطع قلفة البظر فقط التى-كما اشار هو نفسه-هى موضع الختان وهى السبب فى زيادة الشهوة والافراط فيها. اما قول الدكتور البار (وخاصة اذا لم يقدر للمراة ان تتزوج او تايمت بعد زواج بموت او طلاق), فان هذا قد يحدث للذكور كذلك, ورغم ان صيانة الخلق و العفة مطلوبة من كل افراد المجتمع المسلم, فاننا لانجد احدا يقول ان قطع حشفة القضيب هو واحد من اسباب العفة فى الذكور, لان هذا السبب لا يمكن التخلص منه بعد الاحصان بالزواج وزوال الحاجة اليه كذلك لا يمكن ان نقول ان قطع جزء من البظر (الحشفة) هو واحد من اسباب العفة فى المراة.الاسلام قد كفل حق التمتع بنعمة المعاشرة الزوجية لكل فرد ذكرا كان او انثي بعد النكاح الشرعي ويشير ابن قيم الجوزية الى حق المراة على الزوج فى الوطء ويقول: قال تعالي : (ومن اياته ان خلق لكم من انفسكم ازواجا لتسكنوا اليها وجعل بينكم مودة و رحمة ان فى ذلك لايات لقوم يتفكرون)3 سورة الروم الاية21 ( اما الجماع فكان هديه صلي الله عليه وسلم فيه اكمل هدى, يحصل به مقاصده التى وضع لاجلها. من هذه المقاصد حفظ النسل, وحفظ الصحة, ونيل اللذة, و التمتع بالنعمة, و غض البصر, و القدرة على العفة من الحرام, وتحصيل ذلك للمراة, فالزوج ينفع نفسه فى دنياه و اخراه, و ينفع الزوجة و مما ينبغى تقديمه على الجماع ملاعبة المراة و تقبيلها, وكان الرسول صلي الله عليه و سلم يفعل ذلك مع اهله)4الطب النبوى,ابن قيم الجوزية ص249 . هذا هو راى الاسلام فى الحياة الزوجية, ولا يمكن ان نقول ان تقليل الدافع الجنسي بين الزوجين فيه صحة للجسم, ام مناعة فى العفة و الشرف. ان دواعى واسباب الاحصان والعفة فى المجتمع المسلم قد فصلها علماء المسلمين و الذى قصده العلماء هو قطع قلفة البظر فقط ...و الله اعلم. دواعي الاحصان و العفة فى المجتمع المسلم لما كان الحديث عن ختان الانثي لا يتاتى الا و معه نقاش عن عفة المجتمع, كان لابد من ذكر بعض ما قاله علماء المسلمين عن دواعى و اسباب الاحصان و العفة فى المجتمع المسلم. علقت الدكتورة نائلة مبارك كركساوى عن مقال الكاتبة ايلين قرونبام (انظر ص 9) قائلة: ((المنطق يقول (استنادا الى قول الكاتبة), الختان يحفظ للمراة عفتها , وفي تلك الناطق الاصولية فان العفيفة تستطيع ان تحصل على زوج (فهى تعتمد عليه اقتصاديا) اما اذا استقلت اقتصاديا فلا تحتاج للرجل( يعنى كزوج) و بالتالي يمكنها ان تتخلى عن الختان (اى عن عفتها), وهنا تطفح الفكرة الشيطانية الخبيثة, فلاصل ليس انسانية المراة ولا حوجتها الاقتصادية و لا حوجتها للرجل كزوج ولا حتى الختان ولكن المطلوب هو حرية الممارسات الجنسية و النيل من التعليمات الاسلامية)) ان الاسلام قد حرم الزنا على الذكور و الاناث قال تعالى : (الزانية و الزاني فاجلدوا كل واحد منهما مائة جلدةولا تاخذكم بهما رافة فى دين الله..)1 سورة النور الاية2 والاصل فى المجتمع المسلم هو الزواج والاحصان, فليس هنالك كبت كما يزعم اعداء الاسلام بل يجب ازالة مل العقبات التى تمون سببا فى تاخير الزواج بالنسبة للنساء و الرجال. اما الحالات النادرة التى يتعذر فيها الزواج فتكون فيها المحافظة على العفة و تعديل الشهوة و البعد عن الزنى بالوسائل الاتية: " الايمان الصادق وتقوى الله , قال صلي الله عليه وسلم: (لايبلغ العبد ان يكون من المتقين حتى يترك ما لا باس به حذرا مما به باس)1 رواه ابن ماجة,المجلد الثاني ص567 . ومن اسباب التقوى كذلك معرفة مداخل و مكايد الشيطان2 قال تعالي في سورة الاعراف, الاية201 ان الذين اتقو اذا مسهم طائف من الشيطان تذكروا فاذا هم مبصرون).و الوقاية منها بقراءة القران و التحصينات الماثؤرة عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلمو المحافظة على الصلوات و الطاعات الاخرى و البعد عن المعاصى. " الاهتمام بالعلم الشرعي, و معرفة ان النعم التى تفوتنا فى هذه الحياة الدنيا الفانية, سنجدها-اذا صبرنا والتزمنا بالاسلام-فى الجنة حيث النعيم الدائم باذن الله. " الصوم. قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم3*: اخرجه البخارى,(9/106) (يا معشر الشباب من استطاع منكم الباءة 4* الباءة كناية عن النكاح, واصلها المكان الذى يأوى اليه الانسان فليتزوج, فانه اغض للبصر, و احفظ للفرج, ومن لم يستطع فعليه بالصوم,فانه له وجاء(اى مانع)) " الصحبة الصالحة . قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم (لا تصاحب الا مؤمنا ولا يأكل طعامك الا تقي)5 * سنن الترمزى ,(4/600) " ملىء الفراغ بما يفيد فى الدنيا و الآخرة. قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : (نعمتنا مغبون فيهما كثير من الناس : الصحة و الفراغ)6* فتح البارى شرح صحيح البخاري,(11/299) " الحذر من وسائل الاعلام المسموعة و المنظورة و المقروءة قال تعالى : ( ...ان السمع و البصر و الفؤاد كل اولئك كان عنه مسئولا)7* سورة الاسراء الاية36. " البعد عن المنبهات وعن كل المحرمات التى تؤدى الى الفتن اثارة الغرائز. " قطع القلفة فى الذكور و الاناث. " استقرار المراة فى بيتها و عدم خروجها لغير حاجة. لكن يمكن للمراة ان تخرج لمساعدة اخواتها فى المجتمع اذا لم يتعارض ذلك مع مسئوليتها الاولى داخل بيت زوجها. كما يمكنها ان تعمل فى مجتمع مختلط اذادعت الضرورة قال تعالي وقرن فى بيوتكن ولا تبرجن تبرج الجاهلية الاولى...)1* سورة الاحزاب الاية 33 " الحجاب الذى يستر جميع بدن المراة ووجهها وكفيها فى حالة خروجها قال تعالى : ( واذا سالتمهن متاعا فسألوهن من وراء حجاب...)2* سورة الاحزاب الاية53 " الحذر من الخلوة مع غير المحارم 3*المحارم من الرجال هم الاب, و الاخ, و الابن, و الجد, و العم, و الخال, و ووالد الزوج, و ابن الزوج, وابن الاخ, و ابن الاخت. اما المحارم من النساء فهم الام, و الاخت, و البنت, و الجدة , و العمة , والخالة, و ووالدة الزوجة , وبنت الزوجة , و بنت الاخ , و بنت الاخت.قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم : ( لا يخلون احدكم بامراة الا مع ذى محرم)4* رواه البخاري(9/290) " تجنب المصافحة (او الملامسة) مع غير المحارم, قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم: (انى لا اصافح النساء...)5* صحيح اخرجه الامام احمد,(6/357) " غض البصر , قال تعالي قل للمؤمنين يغضوا من ابصارهم ويحفظوا فروجهم ذلك ازكى لهم ان الله خبير بما يصنعون...)6* سورة النور الايات30-31 " تجنب الاختلاط بين النساء و الرجال غير المحارم . والالتزام بالمجتمع المسلم النموذجي الذى يتكون من مجتمعين .واحد للنساء واخر للرجال,ويربط بينهما المحارم ولا يكون التعامل بين المجتمعين الا اذا دعت الضرورة , و الضرورة يجب ان تقدر بقدرها. وعند الضرورة يمون التعامل بضوابطه الشرعية مأن يكون من وراء حجاب و في غير خلوة و دون اخضاع بالقول, قال تعالى : (...فلا تخضعن بالقول فيطمع الذى فى قلبه مرض وقلن قولا معروفا)1*سورة الاحزاب32 سال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم ابنته السيدة فاطمة عن افضل شيء للمراة, فقالت رضي الله عنها (الا تري رجل و لايراها رجل),فضمها صلي الله عليه و سلم الى صدره وقال ذرية بعضها من بعض. " اعتراف المراة بقوامة وفضل الولى2*الولى هو الاب او الاخ او العم ويشترط فيه الاسلام و الحرية و العقل و البلوغ )او الزوج ومعرفة حقوقها وواجباتها فى تعاملها معه قال تعالى : ( الرجال قوامون على النساء)3* سورة النساء الاية 34. وقال صلي الله عليه وسلم (ما افلح قوما ولوا امرهم امراة) رواه البخاري لان فطرة المراة و طبيعتها تساعدها علي الادارة الداخلية فى البيت وطبيعة الرجل تساعده على الادارة الخارجية فى المجتمع . وقد اوصي الاخ د.عصام احمد البشير-فى احدي محاضراته -المسلمين بالاقتداء بقصة بنتى سيدنا شعيب مع سيدنا موسي عليهما السلام , فقد خرجت البنتان من بيت ابيهما لضرورة وهى ان اباهما شيخ كبير , ولم تخرج واحدة تفاديا للخلوة , و انتظرتا حتى ينصرف الرجال تفاديا للاختلاط بهم و مزاحمتهم , وعندما اراد سيدنا موسي ان يسقي لهما رضيتا ولم تستكبرا -وتزعما انهما مساويتان للرجال و يمكنهما عمل كلما يستطيع الرجل عمله-بل طلبتا من ابيهما ان يستأجره لقوته و امانته ,وتفاديا للفتنة زوجه سيدنا شعيب عليه السلام احدي ابنتيه فرضيت البنت براي ابيها 4*وهذا ما يجب ان يفعله كل رجل صالح للمراة,فسيدنا موسي عليه السلام حفظها من مخالطة و مزاحمة الرجال غير المحارم , وسيدنا شعيب عليه السلام حفظها من الفتنة بتزويجها و احصانها. ان الالتزام بهذه الضواط سهل اذا ما قورن بالاضرار الكثيرة التى ستصيب الانسان فى دنياه واخراه ازا لم يلتزم بها . وجميع هذه الضوابط مشتركة بين الذكور و الاناث عدا الاستقرار فى البيت و الحجاب ذلك لان المسئولية الاولى للمراةفى المجتمع المسلم هى رعاية الزوج و الابناء داخل البيت و مسؤلية الرجل هى العمل خارج البيت و جلب المال لينفق على الزوجة و الابناء. نسأل الله تعالي ان يعين النساء على ما كلفهن به سبحانه و تعالى من واجبات, وعدم الجرى وراء الاهواء الدنيويةو منافسة الرجال فى اعبائهم من اجل السلطة و الشهرةو الترف ذلك لانسعادة البشرية فى الدنيا و الاخرة تكون باتقان كل جنس لدوره فى المجتمع.قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه و سلم : (كلكم راع و كلكم مسئول عن رعيته , و الامير راع , و الرجل راع فى اهل بيته , و المراة راعية فى بيت زوجها وولده فكلكم راع و كلكم مسئول عن رعيته )1* فتح الباري شرح صحيح البخاري (9/299) . بعض الشبهات و الرد عليها: " هنالك من يقول ان بعض الضوابط خاص بنساء النبي صلي الله عليه و سلم لكن الراي الراجح عند كثير من العلماء انها عامة لكل النساء لان امهات المؤمنين- رضي الله تعالي عنهن-هن القدوة لكل امراة صالحة.و علي المسلم ان يستفتي قلبه ولو افتاه الناس. " كذلك هنالك من يقول ان تغطية الوجه واجب فقط على المراة ذات الوجه الفاتن. لكن من الذى يملك القياس الذى يحدد ذلك ؟ وكما ذكرت احدي الاخوات , فان الحجاب الكامل 2* الحجاب الكامل يستر جميع بدن المراةحتى الوجه و الكفين و القدمين).نعمة انعمها الله تعالي علي المراة لتستر به عيوبها ومحاسنها من تعليقات و اذي الرجال غير المحارم. " و هنالك من يقول ان المجتمع المختلط يعطينا فرصة لتربية الشباب لانهم سيشاهدون الاخطاء بانفسهم . ونقول لهؤلاء يكفى الشباب الاختلاط المفروض عليهم فى وسائل الاعلام و فى المجتمع عامة, و لا نحتاج ان نهيء لهم هذا الجو, بل نحتاج ان نهيء لهم الجو النظيف الخالي من الفتنو الاختلاط بلا ضرورة , قال تعالي (زين للناس حب الشهوات من النساء و البنين و القناطير المقنطرة من الذهب و الفضة و الخيل ال مسومة و الانعام و الحرث ذلك متاع الحياة الدنيا و الله عنده حسن الماب)1* سورة ال عمران الاية14 . وقال صلي الله عليه وسلم : ( ما تركت من بعدي فتنة هى اضر على الرجال من النساء)2* صحيح البخارى,(5/15) .حمانا الله من الفتن ما ظهر منها وما بطن...امين. " وهنالك من يقول ان هذا التشدد يزيد من الفتنة بين النساء و الرجال , ونقول لهؤلاء ان هذا ليس عيبا في المجتمع المسلم الذى يجب ان يظل الرجل رجلا و المراة مراة, ويستمر التجاذب و التزاوج بينهما لاستمرار الحياة البشرية, و حتى لا نكون كالمجتمعات التى لا تلتزم بهذه الضوابط, و التي شاع فيها الاختلاط بين الجنسين فى المكان و الواجبات, فزهد كل جنس فى الاخر , ونشأ ما يعرف بالجنس الثالث, وانعدمت الحياة الاسرية, انهارت المجتمعات. حمانا الله تعالي من ذلك...امين. " و هنالك من يتساءل عن كيفية اختيار الزوج او الزوجة الصالحة اذا طبقنا مثل هذه الضوابط. و نقول لهؤلاء ان ذلك يكون بالالتجاء الى الله سبحانه و تعالى ودعائه اولا , ثم بالتزكية من المحارم , وبعد ذلك فان الشرع يبيح, بل يطلب من الخطيبين النظر الى بعضهما البعض قبل اتخاذ قرار العقد, و يكون ذلك بضوابط شرعية فصلها علماء المسلمين3* منها ان يتحين الخطيب فرصة للنظر دون معرفة الخطيبة. ), جزاهم الله عنا خيرا كثيرا. قال تعالي : ( يريد الله ان يبين لكم و يهديكم سنن الذين من قبلكم و يتوب عليكم و الله عليم حكيم. والله يريد ان يتوب عليكم و يريد الذين يتبعون الشهوات ان تميلوا ميلا عظيما.يريد الله ان يخفف عنكم وخلق الانسان ضعيفا)4* سورة النساء الايات26-28 وقت ختان الانثي توصيات بعد ان اكدنا من خلال هذا البحث الفوائد الجسدية و النفسية من ختان السنة فى المريقول ابن القيم 1* : تحفة المودود باحكام المولود ص106-107 (يجب علي الولى ان يختن الصبى قبل البلوغ بحيث يبلغ مختونا. فاذا بلغ الصبى اقلف او المراة غير مختونة ولا عذر لهما الزمهما السلطان به). ((و قال الحافظ ابن حجر فى الفتح : واختلف فى الوقت الذى يشرع فيه الختان, قال الماوردي : له وقتان : وقت وجوب عند البلوغ ووقت استحباب قبله, و الاختيار في اليوم السابع بعد الولادة, فان اخر ففي الاربعين يوما, فان اخر ففي السنة السابعة, فاذا بلغ وكان نضوا(ضعيفا)نحيفا يعلم من حاله انه اذا اختتن تلف سقط الوجوب. و يستحب ان لا يؤخر عن وقت الاستحباب الا لعذر))2* نقلا عن كتاب سنن الفطرة ص45 واقول انالمهم فى وقت ختان الانثي هو ان يكون في السن التى يسهل فيها على الطبيبة او القابلة المدربة فصل القلفة عن حشفة البظر و قطعها دون ان تاخذ معها اى جزء اخر من المنطقة المجاورة, و يختلف ذلك بين طفلة و اخرى, لذلك يجب ان يكون هنالك كشف على العضو التناسلى لكل طفلة-بواسطة الطبيبة المختصة-قبل تحديد وقت ختانها. حفل الختان قال الشيخ الامين محمد احمد1* سنن الفطرة ص52-54 : ((قال ابن الحاج المالكي فى كتابه المدخل و السنة فى ختان الذكر اظهاره و فى ختان النساء اخفاؤه ) و قيل فى الرد على هذا القول انه ورد عن عائشة رضي الله عنها اظهاره فى النساء ايضا)). واقول ان فى المسألة سعة لمن اراد ان يظهر...و الله اعلم. خاتمة نخلص من هذا البحث الى الاتى: " عرف الختان انه موضع الختن من الذكر, و موضع القطع من نواة الانثي. " ان ختان السنة للمراة يعنى قطع كل قلفة البظر, وترك حشفته مكشوفة كما هو الحال فى ختان الرجل. واى زيادة على ذلك (سواء كانت من البظر او من الشفرين الصغيرين او الكبيرين) تعتبر ممارسة خاطئة مخالفة لختان السنة و تضر بصحة المراةو لا تنفعها.و من الممارسات الخاطئة كذلك اعادة عملية الختان(العدلة) بعد الزواج و الولادة. " ترجيح الراي الذى يقول بالمساؤاة بين الذكر و الانثى فى سنية الختان. ذلك لان الختان الشرعي للمراة له فوائد مطابقة لفوائد ختان الرجل, و ليس له مضار-بأذن الله-اذا كانت الطبيبة او القابلة مدربة على ختان السنة و كانت الادوات معقمة. وقد انحصرت هذه الفوائد فى فائدتين هما : النظافة التى تكتمل بها طهارة المراة لاداء عباداتها, و تقيها من كثير من الامراض العضوية و النفسية. و تعديل الشهوة لتقليل الانشغال بها, و ينتج ذلك عن شبع المتزوجات من الجماع بعد ازالة القلفة التى تقلل المتعة . كما ان ازالة القلفة يمنع احتجاز الافرازات الطبيعية حول الحشفة , مما يقلل الحك و التهيج عند المتزوجات و غيرهن من النساء. " هنالك خطأ كبير وقع فيه كثير ممن تحدث عن الحكمة من مشروعية ختان الانثي , حيث انهم قالوا ا نه مكرمة لها لانه يمنع عنها الدوافع التى تثير الرغبة الجنسية لديها مما يؤدي الى المحافظة على العفة و الشرف. وقد تم تصحيح ذلك بتوضيح الطريقة الشرعية لختان الانثي و شرح الحكمة الصحيحة منه.و ذكرت بعض الدواعى و اسباب الاحصان و العفة فى المجتمع المسلم . " لم يفصل هذا البحث في موضوع الشهوة و الرغبة الجنسية و كيفية التحكم فيها و الاستجابة لها , و اعتقد ان هذه مجالات لبحوث اخري تتعلق بشرح قوله تعالى (ولا تقربوا الزنا انه كان فاحشة و ساء سبيلا)1* الاسراء الاية32. " ان المهم فى وقت ختان الانثي هو ان يكون فى السن التى يسهل فيها على الطبيبة او القابلة المدربة فصل القلفة عن حشفة البظر و قطعها دون ان تاخذ معها اى جزء اخر من المنطقة المجاورة. " اختلف العلماء فى اظهار حفل ختان النساء و لكن فى المسألة سعة لمن اراد ان يظهر.. و الله اعلم. اسأل الله ان يشرح صدر الجميع لما فيه سعادتهم فى الدنيا و الآخرة...امين. المراجع اولا: المراجع العربية مرتبة ترتيبا ابجديا 1. القران الكريم. 2. اسرار الختان تتجلى فى الطب الحديث, د.حسان شمس باشا , مطتبة السوادى للنشرو التوزيع,جدة, الطبعة الاولى1412ه-1990م. 3. الطب النبوى,ابن قيم الجوزية, مؤسسة الرسالة للطباعة و النشر و التوزيع, بيروت, الطبعة الثانية عشر1408ه-1988م. 4. اسباب محاربة الخفاض فى السودان, د. عبد السلام جريس, د.امنة الصادق بدرىو الاستاذة ايمان محمد, الخرطوم, 1989م. 5. الختان, راى الدين و العلم فى ختان البنات , ابو بكر عبد الرازق, دار الاعتصام للطباعة و النشر و التوزيع, القاهرة. 6. الامراض الجنسية, د.محمد على البار ,دار المنارة للنشرو التوزيع ,جدة, الطبعة الثالثة 1407ه-1987م. 7. تحفة المودود باحكام المولود,ابن قيم الجوزية , تحقيق بشير محمد عيون,مكتبة دار البيان,دمشق,1987م. 8. تربيو الاولاد فى الاسلام,الجزء الاول,عبد الله ناصح علوان, دار السلام للطباعة و النشر, جدة, الطبعة السابعة عشر,1410ه-1990م. 9. خلق الانسان بين الطب والاسلام د.محمد على البار ,الدار السعودية للنشر و التوزيع , الطبعة الثامنة1412ه . 10. سنن الفطرة, الامين محمد احمد , دار المطبوعات الحديثة, جدة 1410ه-1990م. 11. سنن ابن ماجة , للحافظ ابى عبد الله بن محمد بن يزيد المجلد الثانى. 12. سنن الترمزى , محمد بن عيسى بن سورة الترمزي , دار الكتب العلمية , لبنان. 13. صحيح البخارى , للامام ابى عبد الله بن اسماعيل البخاري . 14. صحيح مسلم , للامام ابى الحسين مسلم بن الحجاج, دار الفكر. 15. فتح البارى بشرح صحيح البخاري , للامام الحافظ احمد بن على بن حجر العسقلانى , دار المعرفة, الرياض. 16. لسان العرب , للعلامة ابى الفضل جمال الدين محمد بن مكرم بن منظور المصرى , المجلد الثالث عشر , دار الفكر للطباعة و النشر. 17. مسند الامام احمد بن حنبل , دار الكتب و الوثائق-الرياض. 18. مجموع فتاوى شيخ الاسلام ابن تيمية , جمع و ترتيب عبد الرحمن بن محمد بن قاسم , المجلد الحادى و العشرون.
ثانيا: المراجع الانجليزية 19- Aplan for the establishment of a model helth area around Om Shanig Rural Hospital , Amal Elbeshier , 1991. 20 -Hitti's New Medical Dictionary ,English-Arabic, YusufK. Hitt and Ahmad Alkhatib. 21- Reproductive ritual and social reproduction: female circumcision and the subordination of womenin Sudan , Ellen Gruenbaum. 22-Stedman's Medical Dictionary , 24th edition. 23- Traditional practices affecting the health of women and children WHO, 1987.
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Dr. Royal H. Benson, III Ob/Gyn
Dr. Royal Benson, III F.A.C.O.G.Dr. Royal H. Benson, III is a highly qualified and skilled, Board Certified, Obstetrician/ Gynecologist offering female genital refinement surgery and in-office tumescent liposuction. Dr. Benson has been performing the refinement surgeries for twenty years. Education
Royal H. Benson, III, M.D. graduated from Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, School of Medicine, in Lubbock, Texas, where he was elected to the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society. He completed his internship and residency at St. Paul Medical Center in Dallas. Certifications & Memberships
Dr. Benson is board certified by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. He is a Fellow of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and is a member of the American Medical Association, The Texas Medical Association, the Brazos-Robertson County Medical Society, the Society of Laparoscopic Surgeons, the Association of American Gynecologic Laparoscopists, and the International Society of Cosmetogynecology. Specializations
With new specialized surgical techniques, the patient is able to return to her normal activities in a very short amount of time after this surgery. There is minimal postoperative pain and minimal scarring occurs.
You should demand a surgeon with exceptional surgical skills. There are a limited number of surgeons qualified to perform vaginal refinement procedures. Dr. Royal H. Benson, III is highly qualified to perform this surgery for you.
The procedures Dr. Benson specializes in are:
* Clitoral Hoodectomy or Clitoral Circumcision * Labiaplasty or Labia Minora Reduction * Vaginoplasty or Tightening of the Vagina * In Office Tumescent Liposuction
Increase Self Esteem and Orgasms with Clitoral Hoodectomy
Many women feel that they are abnormal because they either cannot reach climax/orgasm or they are extremely slow in reaching their orgasm. This can be a point of frustration for the woman and her sexual partner. The woman believes that there is something wrong with her because she feels like she does not sexually perform like other women. The partner believes that there is something wrong with him/her because they cannot get the woman to reach the climax in a timely manner.
Dr. Benson has found that sometimes the real problem is undiagnosed clitoral scarring and a simple procedure such as Clitoral Hoodectomy, commonly known as Clitoral Circumcision, will yield tremendous benefits. Safe and Simple
The procedure is very simple. It is done on an outpatient basis and takes only a few minutes. Like other procedures, it is nearly bloodless and is painless. There are no sutures to remove. The patient is able to return to normal activities within several days and may expect a complete return to sexual relations within 4-6 weeks. Reach Orgasm Faster
After the Clitoral Hoodectomy procedure, many women have reported a shortened time to reach orgasm and that they now have multiple orgasms. A patient with a pre-surgical time to orgasm of 30 minutes may now only take 2-5 minutes to reach orgasm. Penile thrusting is much more stimulating to the clitoris after this surgery. Improve Self Esteem
These procedures are designed to improve sexual function. But these procedures are also designed to improve a woman's self-esteem and confidence, not only sexually, but also in the day-to-day activities of her life.
Clitoral Hoodectomy is commonly referred to as clitoral refinement, clitoral hood removal, clitoral adhesion removal, removal of the hood of the clitoris, removal of clitoral adhesions, clitoroplasty, clitoridotomy, female circumcision, and clitoral circumcision, clitoral hood release, or hoodectomy.
Humanist, I thought u might be interested in this survey as well:
Unique Identifier 11554206
Authors Dandash KF. Refaat AH. Eyada M.
Authors Full Name: Dandash, K F. Refaat, A H. Eyada, M.
Institution :Community Medicine Department, Faculty of Medicine, Suez Canal University, Ismalia, Egypt.
Title: Female genital mutilation: a descriptive study.
Source: Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. 27(5):453-8, 2001 Oct-Dec.
Abstract: Female circumcision is one of the tradition still practiced in Egypt. It is a custom related to morals. In order to study its practice in Sharkia governorate, mothers of 352 girls between the ages of 14 and 16 years were interviewed. Results showed that 97.2% of girls in rural areas were circumcised, compared with 81.9% of the girls in urban areas. Of the various factors studied, we found that mothers aged 40 years and older, those married before the age of 20 years, housewives, illiterate mothers, and those living in rural areas more significantly practiced daughter circumcision. Regression analysis revealed that the level of the fathers' education and the area of residence were the most significant factors influencing this practice. Fathers' illiteracy and rural residence were the factors most responsible for its continuation.
Publication Type Journal Article.
Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
And maybe this one shows some hope:
Unique Identifier 9373386
Authors Full Name : Ericksen, K P.
Institution: Department of Psychology, University of California at Davis 95616, USA. kpericksen@ucdavis.edu
Title: Female circumcision among Egyptian women.
Source: Womens Health. 1(4):309-28, 1995.
Abstract: Although a remarkable degree of consensus has been reached among international agencies, policymakers, and women's health advocates that the practice of female circumcision should be eliminated, such consensus is not necessarily shared by those who perform the operation or the families responsible for having girls excised. The surgical procedure is nested in a complex set of beliefs about identity, moral behavior, and the working of the female body. This article describes the dominant themes produced in 85 extensive interviews with mother and operators representing the broad spectrum of Egyptian society. The interviews detailed the operation itself, women's emotional response to the operation, and the rationales put forth in support of the practice. Although institutional efforts to eliminate the practice will meet with resistance, significant demographic shifts already taking place are producing changes in family systems and the opportunity structure that coincide with the abandonment of excision in key sectors of the urban population.
Publication Type Journal Article. Research Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S..
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
Thanks Homing for providing those links...interesting, discouraging and a tad bit hopeful...
I guess I take such issue with this particular problem in society because sexual gratification is such a God given right..It saddens me that some of the less educated, downtrodden Egyptian women themselves have bought into this practice...actually working to defend their own demise...Why can't there be $$$$ funneled to clinics being set up in those rural areas to educate people...I know Egyptian people...they are, by nature, reasonable and non violent people...
Posted by humanist (Member # 12798) on :
Here's another link for you Homing supporting what you said earlier. Which tells me that if Egyptian med students are poorly informed about FGM than surely an ignoramus like Batty will be!
What do medical students in Alexandria know about female genital mutilation?Mostafa SR, El Zeiny NA, Tayel SE, Moubarak EI. Community Medicine Department, Faculty of Medicine, University of Alexandria, Alexandria, Egypt.
We explored the knowledge, beliefs and attitudes of 330 5th year medical students in Alexandria University towards female genital mutilation (FGM). The students' basic knowledge about the practice of FGM was unsatisfactory. Students were unaware of the prevalence of FGM in Egypt and the practices and procedures of FGM. They were also poorly informed about the complications of FGM, and the ethical and legal aspects of FGM in the country. As a result, 52.0% of the students supported the continuation of the practice and 73.2% were in favour of its "medicalization" as a strategy for reducing the risks of FGM. Most students (86.9%) thought that the issue of FGM should be incorporated into the undergraduate medical curriculum.
Posted by honeybunny (Member # 12861) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: Thanks Homing for providing those links...interesting, discouraging and a tad bit hopeful...
I guess I take such issue with this particular problem in society because sexual gratification is such a God given right..It saddens me that some of the less educated, downtrodden Egyptian women themselves have bought into this practice...actually working to defend their own demise...Why can't there be $$$$ funneled to clinics being set up in those rural areas to educate people...I know Egyptian people...they are, by nature, reasonable and non violent people...
Here here
Posted by Dr. Otomatik (Member # 13356) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: I know Egyptian people...they are, by nature, reasonable and non violent people...
Really! And which nationality do you find Unreasonable and violent by nature?
Posted by Alchemist (Member # 12318) on :
quote:Originally posted by Otomatik:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: The same evidence would seem to support the surgical removal of the clitoral hood, for women who find its presence has the effect of dampening stimulation, on the simple ground that the clitoral glans is so much smaller, and thus offers less opportunity for stimulation than does the male glans.
I agree to that. Women who find...... Women not baby girls not underage girls, not routine circumcisions....none of that. That quote refers to grown women who in their judgment(and hopefully with medical consultation) found that they need this surgical procedure. That makes perfect sense.
Leave my Hoo Hoo alone! Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: Here's another link for you Homing supporting what you said earlier. Which tells me that if Egyptian med students are poorly informed about FGM than surely an ignoramus like Batty will be!
What do medical students in Alexandria know about female genital mutilation?Mostafa SR, El Zeiny NA, Tayel SE, Moubarak EI. Community Medicine Department, Faculty of Medicine, University of Alexandria, Alexandria, Egypt.
We explored the knowledge, beliefs and attitudes of 330 5th year medical students in Alexandria University towards female genital mutilation (FGM). The students' basic knowledge about the practice of FGM was unsatisfactory. Students were unaware of the prevalence of FGM in Egypt and the practices and procedures of FGM. They were also poorly informed about the complications of FGM, and the ethical and legal aspects of FGM in the country. As a result, 52.0% of the students supported the continuation of the practice and 73.2% were in favour of its "medicalization" as a strategy for reducing the risks of FGM. Most students (86.9%) thought that the issue of FGM should be incorporated into the undergraduate medical curriculum.
Yes, I've seen this study but I would add that many of the students are simply unfamiliar with what this is in the first place. It isnt a prominent part of their everyday life as u might think when u read the prevalence figures. My own colleagues were like that. I was like that. They may not take a position against it simply because they dont know much about it. I remember when I first heard of it through one of the servants when I was about 18 or something, I asked my mum and she said that was something ignorant people used to do in the distant past and I went through life assuming this was true. Around the year I graduated, there was a lot of media coverage about it and it was then I read about it in magazines and newspapers. I assumed then that, well, they're trying to eradicate what remains of it in the remote rural areas I also remember I would come across journal articles on the issue and I would skip them because I didnt think they were important for my knowledge then. I would move on to read about Bilharziasis or hepatitis.
It's interesting when i come to think of it. I am almost sure that in Alexandria female circumcision is much less prevalent than it is in other parts of the country. Tracing back my memory over the years I trained as undergrad and then my postgrad medical practice, I must have seen a few hundred vulvas by now, but I am sure it was only the occasional one that looked abnormal (circumcised). The figure would not even be anywhere near the 50% mark (because that would mean half which is nowhere near it). I know it isnt scientific to generalize from my personal experience but I think it is useful to use as a pointer or indicator of sorts.
Then I came upon a day when I realized the truth about it and had a hypertensive crisis. I'm not exaggerating. I did. I was taken to the emergency treatment room of the hospital I worked in. It was an incident when one doctor, who typically hails from a village in the western Delta, and whose medical education has not changed much of his character. These things do happen sometimes. He said that girls MUST be circumcised. There were about four or five people in the room then and if it wasnt for the interference of other people who came hurrying when they heard the voices, I think we might have killed him . I'm glad to say he was sacked from that private hospital...and the chief executive of the hospital, who happened to be his head of department at the university hospital he worked in (yes, we can have two jobs) told him he would screw him right into the ground if he ever found out he was propagating these ideas among students or trainees....which probably meant he would report him to the medical syndicate....but unfortunately, it is people like that who go set up secret clinics to perform the procedure. The law in Egypt, you see, does not allow the prof to sack him from his university job.
Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
And I would also like to add a note about the medicalization of the procedure which is being put forward, not as a sign of sanctioning it, but as a public health strategy to "reduce harm" by performing a token sort of circumcision with the least possible damage. Instead of having girls suffer with type II or III FGM, they might just get away with type I which would affect their quality of life much less than the other types....and at least woul ensure a reduced rate of fatal haemorrhages and infections.
This was put forward as a planned public health strategy to control the process while efforts towards its elimination are being done.
Posted by homing pigeon (Member # 8039) on :
quote:Originally posted by humanist: Why can't there be $$$$ funneled to clinics being set up in those rural areas to educate people
Because there isnt enough money. there are more pressing health problems in egypt. Remember in one of my messages above when I spoke about the magnitude of a health problem and its effect on the health of the population as well as the cost of addressing it. Public health funding has to prioritize something like hepatitis C, bilharziasis, paediatric diahreal diseases, polio eradication and vaccine coverage.
But there are rural health units in every village, set up as primary healthcare outposts....but they cannot control the problem without focused media coverage. When this happened around 1994, a large reduction in the rate was seen. I dont know where the funding came from then....but I dont think it was governement funded.....but if it were, especially if it were, repeating the diversion of funds on a large scale towards controlling FGM is not going to be anytime soon, unfortunately.
Posted by Récif corallien (Member # 12656) on :
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Morons.
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Are you crazy? ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Dressing ignorance up as truth will never work. Your views have been discredited and every slimy twist and turn noted. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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