You can link to posts in the locked thread from here. Find the post you want to link to, right click the little icon on the left before the word 'posted' - on most posts it is a yellow 'message pad' - and you can copy and paste the location into your comments in here.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Still feeling quite happy this morning. Still a fair amount of honking going on outside.
So happy for the people of Egypt! I hope they can move forward towards getting what they want and have fought for.
Looking forward to what will happen in the coming weeks and months.
Posted by swam (Member # 5321) on :
Congratulations Misr, popular awareness became huge! Joy in front of results of determination and dignity, chokran.
bonne suite.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Cooking koshari tonight to celebrate Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Greetings,
I hope you are all well.
I'm not complaining and I'm sure it doesn't really matter. I am just wondering why lock a thread just because it has reached a certain number of pages? It's hard to see why 47 pages are any worse than 2. To get to the most recent page from the list of threads to read the most recent posts, it's just as easy to click on the highest page number as it is to click on the number 2, no matter how many pages there may be. If 47 is not worse than 2 why lock a thread at all based on page numbers? On the other hand, why not lock one that reaches 48 or 124?
Best Wishes, LUN
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I'm guessing it was locked more because it was very centered around the protesters and the struggle, with links about timely information shared, etc.
Since the demands of the protesters were met and hopefully things will be moving forward, there is not the immediacy of the situation any longer, and we can start with a fresh new thread, just like Misr is starting fresh.
Just my guess though.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Update:
The ruling military pledged Saturday to eventually hand power to an elected civilian government
Egypt's interim authorities shortened the curfew hours Saturday, setting the new time from midnight to 6 a.m., state TV reported.
The main opposition coalition — a loosely based grouping of youth and traditional opposition groups — said it would end its main protest in Cairo's Tahrir, or Liberation, Square but would call for weekly demonstrations after Friday prayers.
The group also listed its demands for the first time during a press conference. Those included: the lifting of hated emergency laws, the forming of a presidential council and broad-based unity government, the dissolution of parliament and creation of a committee to amend or rewrite the constitution. They called for reforms ensuring freedom of the press, freedom to form political parties and more transparent media institutions.
The coalition also called for an investigation into allegations of endemic corruption within the regime and the trial of officials responsible for the deaths of protesters.
Egypt's ruling military will honor the peace treaty with Israel
Banks reopened last week and the stock market was scheduled to reopen on Wednesday, nearly three weeks after it was closed.
Most stores in Cairo have reopened, and the usually congested traffic in the city of 18 million is returning to its normal level.
I locked it not because of the number of pages specifically (though it if it had only been 6 or 7 I wouldn't have), but because it was informative and contained debate and discussion. People might want to read it through in detail. Almost like "Chapter 1".
The protestors achieved their stated aim - that HM should leave - yesterday, so now we are in a new era and the discussions will take a different flavour and have different issues to discuss. Hence it felt like an appropriate place to start a new thread.
Until yesterday, there was one focus. From today there will be new foci - the opposition will start defining their positions over the coming weeks and people will be trying to identify their aims and where their sympathies lie.
A thread like Happy People could be a zillion pages long and that wouldn't matter because its more or less random rather than debates and discussions and I don't really think anyone will be reading it from the word go!
PS the original thread seems to be one of the longest (top 5) on the whole of ES (excluding Ancient Egypt and Egyptology which I can't bear to look at) by a long long way and it was done in under a month. The 3 or so longer threads have taken a couple of years to get that long.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
AJE - army has made conditional offer to remove emergency law on Friday?
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Now revolution takes hold in Algeria: '30,000' riot police try to quell democracy march inspired by downfall of Hosni Mubarak
I wonder if there will be any demonstartions and riots in North Korea.... China....Zimbabwe and other non democratic countries, doubt it very much, they seem to have a different approach to people rioting. Believe me, we Africans have looked on at Egypt with envy, as most of the dictators. are similar if not worse to Mubarak. Uganda is one such country, next week they have elections which are going to be 'won' by the current President- who will go on to lead for an another 5 years making it a total of 30 years with little to show for it! IT HURTS!!! - Maureen , Formely British Colony with plenty of sunshine, 12/2/2011 15:18
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Egyptians gather around a "stone memorial" covered in flowers, in honor of those who died since the Jan. 25 uprising started, as it is lowered down from a truck by a crane, in Tahrir Square in downtown Cairo, Egypt Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011.
Saw thread was locked and moaned as wanted to post in it, saw this one with link to the other in the first post so ta muchly for that.
Fully agree with reason for closting chapter 1.
@ Penny, been thinking about you a lot lately, wasn't sure where you were but glad you're safe!
I have been out all day away from tv and internet Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
AJE just said that State TV showed the martyrs!
Forming Council of Trustees to defend the aims of the demonstrators.
Also: Police in Alex protesting outside the Ministry of Information for failing to protect their reputation!!!!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I wonder if they are going to reorganize the police (black uniform thugs)...something needs to be done about them... Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Hosni Mubarak used last 18 days in power to secure his fortune
(Edited your link as the one you posted was broken).
[ 12. February 2011, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Shanta Qadeama ]
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti. Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
Hiya folks, Allow me to introduce myself if I may. My name is Amoun and I'm over the moon, for obvious reasons.
I was born yesterday! tried to enter my birth date as 11/2/2011 but the system said I was under age. Clearly it was able to detect I was one day old!
Just for the record, in a previous life I was known as Ramses nemesis and still exist as such in a parallel universe, but for now I'm Amoun and I'm ova da moon.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
With the niceties out of the way, now to the real stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama:
Also: Police in Alex protesting outside the Ministry of Information for failing to protect their reputation!!!!
Didn't know they had one of those (reputation). As for the MoI, well tarnishing police reputation would be the least of my worries. How about misinforming the public, the ones that pay their salaries. Like the police, there's a need for serious re-structuring of state media. It should be more professional than political, a bit like the BBC. On paper Egypt has a similar system where the state "union of broadcast and television" has a council of trustees. Not sure who apoints them though, is it the minister or parliament. In any event, it does need to be reformed. It's really sad because Egypt's is the first Radio broadcast in the Arab world, and aparantly the second TV broadcast. Yet we've been completely over taken by the younger ones, like AJ, etc. My 2p on revolutionary reform!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: Greetings,
I hope you are all well.
I'm not complaining and I'm sure it doesn't really matter. I am just wondering why lock a thread just because it has reached a certain number of pages? It's hard to see why 47 pages are any worse than 2. To get to the most recent page from the list of threads to read the most recent posts, it's just as easy to click on the highest page number as it is to click on the number 2, no matter how many pages there may be. If 47 is not worse than 2 why lock a thread at all based on page numbers? On the other hand, why not lock one that reaches 48 or 124?
Best Wishes, LUN
The same occured to me actually but Shanta explained it convincinlgy. Nonetheless, I think we should protest. Let's have a rally. We want Shanta Gdeeda!!
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Freedom in Egypt! But there's no petrol (and don't even think of asking for a gin and tonic)
The scene as the sun rose above the square in downtown Cairo was reminiscent of Trafalgar Square in the aftermath of an exuberant New Year’s Eve party.
The country is suffering chronic poverty and unemployment – 76 per cent of all young men do not work. This is socially crippling in a society where 60 per cent of the population is under 30
I'm a movie blogger and I am really interested in interviewing (over email) someone about my blog post: Will the fall of Egypt’s President see a rise in a new wave of creativity? http://bit.ly/fKPuOu
Get in contact with me if you are interested....
Thanks heaps.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
Hope the army don't get too heavy-handed with the demonstrators who won't go home.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Hiya folks, Allow me to introduce myself if I may. My name is Amoun and I'm over the moon, for obvious reasons.
I was born yesterday! tried to enter my birth date as 11/2/2011 but the system said I was under age. Clearly it was able to detect I was one day old!
Just for the record, in a previous life I was known as Ramses nemesis and still exist as such in a parallel universe, but for now I'm Amoun and I'm ova da moon.
Greetings Amoun You have to be over 13 to use the forum
I would turn into Shanta Gdida for a bit except then I won't be able to turn back to Qdeama or Qdeema (I used that one up).
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Freedom in Egypt! But there's no petrol (and don't even think of asking for a gin and tonic)
The scene as the sun rose above the square in downtown Cairo was reminiscent of Trafalgar Square in the aftermath of an exuberant New Year’s Eve party.
The country is suffering chronic poverty and unemployment – 76 per cent of all young men do not work. This is socially crippling in a society where 60 per cent of the population is under 30
I keep on wondering if there is any procedure, any santaria ceremony I can perform to give myself telekenetic powers in which I could visualize your fingers breaking into a physical reality. At that point you couldn't copy and paste your usual drivel and bulcaca to ruin a joyous mood.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: Egyptians gather around a "stone memorial" covered in flowers, in honor of those who died since the Jan. 25 uprising started, as it is lowered down from a truck by a crane, in Tahrir Square in downtown Cairo, Egypt Saturday, Feb. 12, 2011.
This whole cleaning issue is very touching. (And, as someone else said, quite significant )
I was very impressed with how clean the square was even while there were thousands of people camping and protesting on there. They had organized the garbage collection very well, and everyone took care to not just throw their stuff on the ground.
Posted by Shanta Qadeama (Member # 9889) on :
First two bus rides of the revolution by me
Needed to go to Al Arish St - half way up Haram Street. Waited outside mine for a bus or microbus. A microbus pulled up, 'salam alaikum' they all said. I would only describe the facial expressions as that thing the Brits do so well: "surprised, pleased, but let's pretend it's completely normal" (and with a very slightly detectable eagerness to please). Anyway, unfortunately he was going to Awl Faisal so couldn't get on it. Then a minibus (these are the small buses bigger than a microbus) turned up going my way. Exactly the same facial expressions. No other women on bus. Apart from a couple of surreptious glances (and nothing to make me uncomfortable) and a couple of slight startled looks when more people got on the bus and notice me, nothing. At Midan Remaya, about 20 young men got on. Apart from one or two little surprised glances when they first got on - diddle. I got exactly the same amount of attention and hassle as before i.e. NONE WHATSOEVER.
In El Arish St, went to the Etisalat shop, again, the same slightly startled, surprised, pleased, let's pretend everything's normal reaction again. Went in Metro supermarket and KFC (with another ESer who I met for the first time up there she can reveal herself if she chooses) - same.
Then I got a microbus back home again. Same.
I feel so refreshed after that.
Btw there are two tanks at Midan Remaya and an APC at the head of the El Fayoum Road, but you could easily not notice them. It only just occurred to me, of course, they are sand-coloured. Am too used to British khaki camouflage!
Couldn't see if the pyramids were reopened yet.
PS for those who don't know, I'm a strapping blonde foreigner, don't blend in, and very very rarely get any hassle or stares.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
just a quickie,and sorry no links as based on phone calls and what I remember of media input-
I saw mention of pensions going up and a phonecall that said the person had 'signed on' and was expecting to get money 'like you do in your country' if you are not working. I found that hard to believe as I imagine it would take a while to organise a social security system! Anyone else heard of that?
Posted by weirdkitty (Member # 15365) on :
Anyone with any idea when the British embassy will be back up and running, please let me know. Considering a friend got his visa today, I'm assuming the germany embassy is all good.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Went out this morning to meet our Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema), and have to say I was a little wary of being out as I've not been out since the 31st or so.
I tried to surreptitiously look about as we were out to see if I was getting any stares, but only saw one or two men who seemed surprised to see me, but that's about normal for me.
I can't say I felt threatened but I can't say I felt like things were back like before either. Still not sure enough how people are feeling about foreigners from watching news or being misinformed or anything else.
Overall I'd say it was fine out, Giza way.
Also, Shanta appeared neither old or bag like. Is this the spot where I tutt? lol
Posted by cbrbddd (Member # 3891) on :
SQ, considering all the reports that I had from my friend who lives off haram street (near where you went ) . . . did you notice much damage from fires? That would have been nightclubs hich were torched during the first days of protesting . . . but maybe you needed to go further down (I can't remember where all those places are located in relation to El Arish Street).
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by cbrbddd: SQ, considering all the reports that I had from my friend who lives off haram street (near where you went ) . . . did you notice much damage from fires? That would have been nightclubs hich were torched during the first days of protesting . . . but maybe you needed to go further down (I can't remember where all those places are located in relation to El Arish Street).
Actually I saw them going back home. There was one that looked like it might have had some damage (wasn't paying close enough attention) and one that was blocked with a wood type structure or something, which it usually isn't when we pass by, so maybe there was some damage to that one.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Ok...this is an interesting view via a facebook link about the role of the military that I havent yet seen in this forum...I did ask the guy if it was ok to copy and seeing facebook played such a big part in it all didnt think you'd mind. I know there have been some wonderfully inspiring photos of lads and their tanks but is anyone else suspicious of the role of the army ?
Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood "Security and normalcy are top priorities." - Shafiq announced after meeting with Tantawi. Next will be security clampdown. The protests are going to end. Military coup was planned by army to remove Mubarak and Gamal dynasty. It used people to pull it off. A military coup is not a revolution, the dictator is gone but not the dictatorship. 46 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood Islam & military are both anti-democracy. Of top10 failed states 7 are Muslim & of top 10 most corrupt nations 7 are Muslim. Egypt's work ethics are Insha Allah & education is poor. The real revolution in Muslim world can come only by chang...ing school curriculum to science heavy secular international curriculum. This can only be done by putting it as condition to foreign aid.See more 43 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 person (name deleted) likes this..Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood The military restraint helped show to the 84 millions of Egyptians that didn't come out that military can be trusted with the country. The protesters never numbered more than 200,000 and did not come close to the protests of 1989 or Iran 19...79. The combo of the military's end goal and the small protests meant the military never felt threatened enough to crack down. The whole transfer of power was internally managed and now the powers of the Parliament and the president belong to the military . The military will decide when "military rule" ends.See more 41 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood Army needs set the specific date of the election, specific dates for milestones leading up to the election, e.g., Constitutional reform, dates for registering candidates, dates for establishing who will oversee the elections to ensure that they are fair, lifting emergency rules which block freedom of speech and press so the candidates can run and debate freely in the open, etc. If they do all these things quickly it will give people confidence that the Army is serious about civilian democratic rule. 40 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood Breaking news: The Egyptian military said they will run the country for six months, or until presidential and parliament elections can be held. Egypt's military rulers have dissolved parliament and suspended the constitution. Let's hope they soon announce lifting of emergency. 35 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading....Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood Q: Where does the Egyptian military contend to derive their authority from ? Clearly, there is no authority that I am aware anywhere of a military possessing the right to suspend a constitution. A: The loaded magazine rounds.. 20 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.(name deleted) Thanks Imtiaz....Thats a different take on things...may I invite you to www.egyptsearch.com forum....? You sound like you would give an interesting perspective.... 19 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading....(name deleted) or may I copy paste that take on the post rev thread? 18 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.مستر جيف لوي @Imiataz: The way I understand it, Military governments like this are legal under international law. At least recognized globally. 7 minutes ago · LikeUnlike.Imtiaz Hussain Mahmood (name deleted): You have full rights to copy paste any of my posts here or elsewhere 3 minutes ago · UnlikeLike · 1 personYou like this.
(EDIT BY SHANTA: I have edited out real names other than Imtiaz as he has now joined the forum under this name).
[ 13. February 2011, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) ]
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
Interesting view on AJE from someone in Tel Aviv, not sure who it is. Basically, look at how peaceful this revolution has been so far, look to the chances not the problems. If I get his name, I'll add it later.
"This so-called stability encompasses millions of Arabs living under criminal regimes and evil tyrannies. In stable Saudi Arabia, the women are regarded as the lowest of the low; in stable Syria, any sign of opposition is repressed; in stable Jordan and Morocco, the apple of the eye of the West and Israel, people are frightened to utter a word of criticism against their kings, even in casual coffee-shop conversations."
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by cbrbddd: SQ, considering all the reports that I had from my friend who lives off haram street (near where you went ) . . . did you notice much damage from fires? That would have been nightclubs hich were torched during the first days of protesting . . . but maybe you needed to go further down (I can't remember where all those places are located in relation to El Arish Street).
I didn't see any, but I think all the clubs etc are further along Haram St than I went.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I've not been out since the 31st or so.
Wow! You haven't been out at all? Not even grocery shopping or going for a walk? Aren't you suffering from cabin fever?
I've been out every single day, I was going insane being locked in the house so much. Been running errands, sitting at the ahwa, taking taxis etc. I've been on the Metro regularly, but only from Sakanat to Maadi or vice versa. Went to Dar el Salam briefly some time last week. I took the Metro downtown and spent a lot of time on Tahrir on the 10th and the 11th.
I haven't encountered any hostility, stares, harassment, or anything of that sort. There were reports of hostilities against foreigners at some point, but personally I didn't feel any of that.
I got – as is normal – some curious looks, and a few people on Tahrir asked me what my nationality is or welcomed me. At some point I got very badly stuck in a crowd in the middle of the square, not being able to move forward, but people pushing from behind. Yet I haven't been grabbed, harassed or anything of the sort.
My personal experience is that people were actually very friendly to me as a foreigner during this revolution.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
Watching this police protest on AJ - they're protesting outside the Interior Ministry.
Just to indicate how peaceful this whole thing has been (overall) noone's attacking them.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: I've not been out since the 31st or so.
Wow! You haven't been out at all? Not even grocery shopping or going for a walk? Aren't you suffering from cabin fever?
I've been out every single day, I was going insane being locked in the house so much. Been running errands, sitting at the ahwa, taking taxis etc. I've been on the Metro regularly, but only from Sakanat to Maadi or vice versa. Went to Dar el Salam briefly some time last week. I took the Metro downtown and spent a lot of time on Tahrir on the 10th and the 11th.
I haven't encountered any hostility, stares, harassment, or anything of that sort. There were reports of hostilities against foreigners at some point, but personally I didn't feel any of that.
I got – as is normal – some curious looks, and a few people on Tahrir asked me what my nationality is or welcomed me. At some point I got very badly stuck in a crowd in the middle of the square, not being able to move forward, but people pushing from behind. Yet I haven't been grabbed, harassed or anything of the sort.
My personal experience is that people were actually very friendly to me as a foreigner during this revolution.
I do get a bit of cabin fever, yes. It's not usually so long between going out, but with the curfew and everything else going on, just... meh. Hubby brought home groceries, etc., so I've just been in.
Not anyplace really nice to go in our neighborhood anyways. Though I always enjoy getting out for a walk and seeing what there is to be seen. Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Excellent article:
Why Egypt Will Not Be Another Iran
The overwhelming role played by religious forces in Iran contrasts with the ongoing demonstrations, strikes, and other actions in Egypt, which has been led from the outset by secular youth through the Internet and other means of communication. The slogans, communiqués, banners, graffiti, tweets, and Facebook messages have been almost exclusively secular in orientation, pushing nationalistic and liberal democratic themes. And, despite decades of U.S. support for the Mubarak dictatorship, the Egyptian protests have featured virtually no explicit anti-Americanism, a striking contrast with the Iranian revolution. Indeed, the current protests have almost exclusively focused on Mubarak’s misrule rather than the U.S. role in enabling it.
The Muslim Brotherhood
U.S. apologists for the Egyptian dictatorship point to the fact that the largest single opposition group – and arguably best organized – is the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement which has played a role in Egyptian politics since the 1920s. Being the single largest opposition group, however, does not mean that the Muslim Brotherhood has majority support – far from it. Most estimates put their popular support at 20-15 percent, with the upper estimate at 30 percent or slightly higher. Its active adherents probably number no more than 100,000 out of a population of over 82 million. There are also serious divisions between the more progressive and more conservative elements within the movement, and it would likely split into two or more political parties once legalized. Indeed, according to the Egyptian newspaper El-Masry El-Youm, both the women’s and youth wing appear to have already split from the Muslim Brotherhood last week and joined the April 6 Movement.
According several sites hosni m in coma.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
yeah, I read that too. Hm.
Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Im stressed now just said mon is bank holiday because workers are on strike. My money comes wed. I need atm will have money and international access! Help!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
None of us know Adelly.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
According to Al Masry Al Youm, Hosni on the way to the UAE:
@Adelly where did you hear that tomorrow has been made a Bank Holiday? Tuesday is Prophet's Birthday so that might be one I guess.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
quote:Originally posted by adelly: According several sites hosni m in coma.
We have learned through foreign sources that Hosni Mubarak was flown this morning to a Baden hospital in Germany after falling into a coma. The report was confirmed this morning by Bahrain daily Al Wasat who indicated that just prior to leaving for his resort in Sharm-el-Sheikh, Mubarak became comatose.
They're still saying he's in Sharm. It's quite an interesting piece giving an insight on how things in Sharm really are now. TL, take note:
"The Cooke family, from Abbotsbury, Dorset, on their fifth holiday in Sharm, were relaxed about the protests hundreds of miles to the north. "If there were student riots in London, you wouldn't worry if you were in Cornwall, would you?" Maureen Cooke, 53, said. "They don't want any trouble here – they depend on tourism."In the Queen Vic pub, draped with Union flags, in Soho Square, Sharon and Paul Stone from Exeter were the only customers. The Egyptian protesters, Sharon said, had "got what they wanted, and good on 'em". The couple was delighted with their first holiday to Egypt and were planning to return with their children and grandchild within a couple of months.
"It's lovely, totally relaxed," said Paul, sipping a beer in the afternoon sun. "There are no Germans and no Russians. We've noticed a lot of police and guards on hotels, but we don't feel at all uneasy."
When I went to the airport on 2nd Feb, all the Mubarak posters remained intact on the drive in, which surprised me. It was quiet on the streets, the airport itself was busy, but I was surprised by the normality of it all once you checked in. It seemed very much business as normal, even then.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Sad News
Zahi Hawass
The staff of the database department at the Egyptian Museum, Cairo have given me their report on the inventory of objects at the museum following the break in. Sadly, they have discovered objects are missing from the museum. The objects missing are as follows:
1. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun being carried by a goddess
2. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun harpooning. Only the torso and upper limbs of the king are missing
3. Limestone statue of Akhenaten holding an offering table
.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
Said on tv that whoever took them knew exactly what they were looking for. Wonder if they're in a vault in a Swiss bank?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Why break things though? I think I read that 30 odd pieces had been damaged. For what?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
Make it look like random vandals?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Yeah. Definitely looks like someone knew what they were doing. Wouldn't imagine a passerby would think of going in through the roof.
Disgusting though. Like the Egyptians haven't been robbed of enough already.
I heard a pretty impressive story of a police officer, before all this happened, turning down a bribe of, I think it was $5,000,000 (and I've got a feeling it may have been more) to turn a blind eye to a piece being smuggled out of the country. That was just the bribe! Imagine what the piece was worth! I think it was a gold sceptre or something.
Pretty impressive. Just goes to show they aren't all crooked.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Let me share with you my neutral persepective.
I knew that Mubarak was suffering from a stomach cancer while he was there.
May be He was too proud to step down. I think The Guy had enough. and I think his family were the real enemies who destroyed him and allowed him to end this way.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
How are you feeling about all this now Tareq?
Interested to hear your perspective as an Egyptian actually living here.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Let me share with you my neutral persepective.
I knew that Mubarak was suffering from a stomach cancer while he was there.
May be He was too proud to step down. I think The Guy had enough. and I think his family were the real enemies who destroyed him and allowed him to end this way.
I read something about that yesterday...
Mubarak's top aides and family — including his son Gamal, widely viewed as his intended successor — told him he could still ride out the turmoil.
"He did not look beyond what Gamal was telling him, so he was isolated politically," said the official. "Every incremental move (by Mubarak) was too little too late."
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Let me share with you my neutral persepective.
I knew that Mubarak was suffering from a stomach cancer while he was there.
May be He was too proud to step down. I think The Guy had enough. and I think his family were the real enemies who destroyed him and allowed him to end this way.
Stomach cancer can kill within a few months or a few weeks.
Let alone it cripples its victim massively, for an 82 year old he doesn't look like he has stomach cancer. I've seen people in their late 50s with stomach cancer and they look alot worse.
I have a feeling it was prostate cancer which spreads quite quickly to non-vital organs and takes vital organs after some time. No Egyptian man would admit to having cancerous gonads.
But he doesn't appear to have stomach cancer, only pancreotic cancer is worse.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Just got a message on my internet dongle thingy from "ArmedForces" stating what was stated earlier here and in the news, about the parliament and constitution stuff.
I find it interesting the way that the phone/internet companies are used to get messages out to people. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in the States.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
True that he doestn look like a 82 old man,but im sure he has had plenty of plastic surgeries performed at least on his face.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
And Mr. Mubarak is very much respected and welcomed in Germany if indeed he comes and perhaps he's already there.
Even before he stepped down as Egyptian president negotiations were made to offer him 'medical exile' in Germany.
I can't confirm the news at this point if they are indeed true - that he apparently fell into a coma - (IMHO rumors could have been spread just to justify Mubarak's exit from Egypt) but they make me sad. Also if he would pass away now what an irony.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I thought it was pretty sweet - taking pride in a country they finally felt a true sense of ownership of.
Robert Fisk: Cairo's 50,000 street children were abused by this regime
Cairo's street kids were duped into resisting the revolution, then shot by police in the chaos that ensued
This whole cleaning issue is very touching. (And, as someone else said, quite significant )
I was very impressed with how clean the square was even while there were thousands of people camping and protesting on there. They had organized the garbage collection very well, and everyone took care to not just throw their stuff on the ground.
Auch dieser blinde Bettler traut sich nach 18 Tagen wieder auf die Straße. Viele Menschen haben in den vergangenen Wochen kein Geld eingenommen und sind froh, dass die Proteste jetzt ein Ende haben.
Also this blind beggar dares again after 18 days on the road. Many people have taken in recent weeks, no money and are glad that the protests are now over.
He's not blind and he's not a beggar. I don't know who and why they'd make this assumption.
The sachel is common amoung older bureaucratic workers and bureaucratic retirees. My FIL has one, along with many of his fellow Ministry of Education colleagues, teachers often have this sachel and it was once part of their official wardrobe. I've heard all sorts of wild talk at the "club for teachers" which most towns have one, like an officers club. Official wardrobe for each ministry dictated western clothing, including a sachel. That cane is common among older men who have been to KSA, its a sign of a Hajji.
When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required. His shoes also are not part of the dictated wardrobe, another freedom of retirement.
He's probably has a small business which many bureacrat retirees have, there was a loan program as part of their pension, divert part of your pension towards the setup costs of a business. They did this as part of a compromise to cut back on pension payments, and encourage old timers with more than 20 years in to set up businesses and get off government payroll.
A few hundred gov. retires in Shebin alone have businesses in Cairo, mostly Attaba. Though some were fortunate to secure store fronts in Downtown as well.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
If you are asserting this condemnation I'd prefer you post recent photos hyperlinks as proof.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Here's some great proof like the littering problem, sexual harrassment was a symptom of the regime:
(Cairo, January 30, 2011) - **** *******, Egypt researcher: Several thousand people remain in Tahrir Square, many say they're planning to spend the night and stay till Mubarak resigns. There was a huge cheer when we heard Mohamed ElBaradei was coming but unfortunately most of us couldn't hear what he said - no loudspeakers, apparently. A crowd of about 800 and lots of journalists crowded around to hear him speak but everyone else just carried on chanting, "Mubarak you must leave." People were also very angry to hear that the Interior Ministry is ordering police back on to the streets - though the Army still has control in Tahrir Square. Yesterday they were calling for the minister's resignation, so they're very upset about that. It's been much more organized today, people going around with loudhailers urging people not to leave.
The square has emptied out since the afternoon but it's still a great atmosphere, a sense of solidarity, and very well-behaved – people are sitting around bonfires, or walking around picking up rubbish. Crowds who find occasional looters drag them over to the soldiers and hand them over. And no sexual harassment – which is not the norm downtown, especially when there are big groups gathering! We're happy to be eating koshary – thank goodness vendors are still selling street food because we're starving.
Keep in mind the protesters were mixed, ethnically, class-wise, gender and faith. Therefore its truly an amazing turn in behavior/attitudes.
With more changes on the way, hopefully there will be less for foreign women to complain about.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Thanks for putting it all to rights sono, I knew you would know more about everything than us here and wow amazing you can see everything about the blind man just from one pic!! Is he your FIL?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
He's not blind and he's not a beggar. I don't know who and why they'd make this assumption.
The sachel is common amoung older bureaucratic workers and bureaucratic retirees. My FIL has one, along with many of his fellow Ministry of Education colleagues, teachers often have this sachel and it was once part of their official wardrobe. I've heard all sorts of wild talk at the "club for teachers" which most towns have one, like an officers club. Official wardrobe for each ministry dictated western clothing, including a sachel. That cane is common among older men who have been to KSA, its a sign of a Hajji.
When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required. His shoes also are not part of the dictated wardrobe, another freedom of retirement.
He's probably has a small business which many bureacrat retirees have, there was a loan program as part of their pension, divert part of your pension towards the setup costs of a business. They did this as part of a compromise to cut back on pension payments, and encourage old timers with more than 20 years in to set up businesses and get off government payroll.
A few hundred gov. retires in Shebin alone have businesses in Cairo, mostly Attaba. Though some were fortunate to secure store fronts in Downtown as well.
If you are asserting this condemnation I'd prefer you post recent photos hyperlinks as proof.
Also I'm sure after they have done all the big wigs they will get round to those retired govt. workers like your FIL and dig into his assets and how he managed to obtain his wealth on a govt job which the rest of the world knows is paid a pittance apart from the obvious corrupt nearer the top. They better start getting their businesses and shop fronts out to Swiss bank accounts quick
Not the right time now to be shouting what your high up ex FIL has amassed out of obvious corruption sono, he will be investigated and I will now start saving everything you have written about him so they will have something to start with.
Oh and the satchel is a shopping bag, yes lots of people have them for shopping with. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess. The piles of rubbish around living quarters is because this country has been 'so poor' as the regime stole from the country it couldn't even set up proper rubbish disposal. It needs much more than a man going around with a brush and cart to sort the rubbish problem here in this country. Their clean up of the square was nothing to do with the world watching and everything to do with an Egyptian's pride in his country.
In the last few weeks, prior to revolution, there is a building going up across from me. That corner was where our skip was which was emptied daily. Now they took the skip away and we have nowhere to put our rubbish in these streets that used that skip, so it's piled up on another corner in the hope that eventually a man with a cart will come and clean it up or the truck that used to empty the skip will come and do it in one go. There were notices in Arabic posted around telling us not to put rubbish there but gave no indication where it was to go or how it would be collected. cats are having a great time though Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess. The piles of rubbish around living quarters is because this country has been 'so poor' as the regime stole from the country it couldn't even set up proper rubbish disposal. It needs much more than a man going around with a brush and cart to sort the rubbish problem here in this country. Their clean up of the square was nothing to do with the world watching and everything to do with an Egyptian's pride in his country.
Exactly.
There were many private initiatives cleaning the streets and collecting garbage over the past couple of week in areas far away from Tahrir.
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
Anyone watching how the Army is moving out the people left in Tahrir? I'm not saying they nshould remain in the street... but the right to assemble is an intergal part of a democracy. Forcing people to leave, dragging them out, and arresting them if they dont go... THIS is NOT what should be happening.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Thanks for putting it all to rights sono, I knew you would know more about everything than us here and wow amazing you can see everything about the blind man just from one pic!! Is he your FIL?
That was a weird post from sono. wasn't it? When exactly did she visit Egypt? Around 1935? Civil servants change their underwear [with some relief] upon retirement? Are we certain she's talking about Egypt, 'cos it doesn't seem like anywhere in the real world. And the guy probably was blind, hence the stick! And most assuredly he must has asked the film crew for money, or why would they say he was begging? And eerrrr So what? BTW, why does Cairo still not have decent garbage disposal yet? Here in Alex we've had Veolia for about 8 years, wheelies and roadsweepers, and pretty efficient well paid workforce. Is it decided by central government or the governate? Please don't answer this Sono, you told me about 5years ago that garbage here was burned in the streets.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Mo Ning, now you know full well sono is the expert on Egypt so don't question it, just take it in. Stick is part of hajj and there are no blind people in Egypt, they banned them along with the deaf people
Cairo do have better rubbish disposal than we do here, here in Luxor our governor is much more concerned with making people homeless, painting the curb of any main streets some big wig will drive through and doing away with those silly trees everywhere.
wonder what will happen to him, hope they burn him at the stake, bloody waste of space! I will volunteer the matches.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Our govenor banned smoking in all restaurants, and then banned SHISHAS in coffee shops [even outside!] on pain of LE10000 fine and closure for 3 months. All this just before the revolution, so maybe people feel safe ignoring it. He had previously hounded out most of the traders in the street markets although many of them said they had licences. Power mad. All the good stuff, like new pavements, street lights, tree planting and garbage/sewage upgrades was instigated by the previous gov [who was disliked 'at the top', but adored by the people of Alex.
Oh God, i've got this vision of retiring civil servants being presented with their little haaj sticks, shopping bag, and sexy jockey shorts, at their retirement parties.[Then they all hop back into their gallabeyas and go blind.]
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And Mr. Mubarak is very much respected and welcomed in Germany
Is he?
Posted by hmozachsown (Member # 14872) on :
"And Mr. Mubarak is very much respected and welcomed in Germany"... a few posters from the demonstration come to mind... guess the likeness wasn't so far off...
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
I would never dare to speak in the name of all Germans, I think it goes without saying that this would be silly.
Personally, I don't know any German who supports Mubarak. I read some newspaper articles speaking about the possibility of him going to Germany, and the comments underneath the articles were 90% disapproving. Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power.
Apparently there was an assassination attempt on Ayman Nour in Luxor.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
where did you hear that Monkey?
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
Thanks Tigerlily,
You write with touching feeling about rumours of the former dictator's ill health, of your suspicions of the motives of the volunteer cleaners, and of your belief that Germany would welcome Mubarak in his exile.
You views seem to me quite extraordinary. Why mourn a brutal dictator, rather then his victims? Why the cynicism and sour grapes towards the new sense of unity felt by the liberated people? And why such warm attachment to a foreign leader?
I admire, however, your consistency. Hypocritical western leaders did what they always do. They supported their client right up until he fell, then they acted as if they had supported the uprising all along. You, on the other hand, just keep right on supporting your man.
I wonder now whether you wish for a return to the old order in Egypt, with its torture, arbitrary arrest and emergency law? If so, do you believe it would be a good thing for your own country of origin as well, which I believe is Germany, or is it just good for Egyptians?
Just wondering.
Best Wishes, LUN
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Qadeama: I would turn into Shanta Gdida for a bit except then I won't be able to turn back to Qdeama or Qdeema (I used that one up).
Hey Shanta Gdeeda, thanks for the change, more in tune with the times.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: where did you hear that Monkey?
Ahem... Well... It may have been on Twitter BUT... It was on Euronews' tweets so I assumed it would be fairly reliable... and it was breaking news on their website... now it's disappeared.
Doesn't seem overly reliable. Must stop listening to Twitter reports Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: Excellent article:
Why Egypt Will Not Be Another Iran
The overwhelming role played by religious forces in Iran contrasts with the ongoing demonstrations, strikes, and other actions in Egypt, which has been led from the outset by secular youth through the Internet and other means of communication. The slogans, communiqués, banners, graffiti, tweets, and Facebook messages have been almost exclusively secular in orientation, pushing nationalistic and liberal democratic themes. And, despite decades of U.S. support for the Mubarak dictatorship, the Egyptian protests have featured virtually no explicit anti-Americanism, a striking contrast with the Iranian revolution. Indeed, the current protests have almost exclusively focused on Mubarak’s misrule rather than the U.S. role in enabling it.
The Muslim Brotherhood
U.S. apologists for the Egyptian dictatorship point to the fact that the largest single opposition group – and arguably best organized – is the Muslim Brotherhood, a movement which has played a role in Egyptian politics since the 1920s. Being the single largest opposition group, however, does not mean that the Muslim Brotherhood has majority support – far from it. Most estimates put their popular support at 20-15 percent, with the upper estimate at 30 percent or slightly higher. Its active adherents probably number no more than 100,000 out of a population of over 82 million. There are also serious divisions between the more progressive and more conservative elements within the movement, and it would likely split into two or more political parties once legalized. Indeed, according to the Egyptian newspaper El-Masry El-Youm, both the women’s and youth wing appear to have already split from the Muslim Brotherhood last week and joined the April 6 Movement.
I totally agree with this analysis, judging from your quotes (haven't read the actual article). I would also add a main difference between Egypt and Iran and that is the sect. As people know, Iran is Shia while Egypt is Sunni. As far as I know, the Shia sect has a religious hierarchy, and the religious leaders have a strong influence on the people (I'm not necessarily saying that this is something bad or good, it's just an observation, possibly even a fact). So in Shia islam there's a sort of clergy that doesn't exist in Sunni islam. In the latter you don't have a ruling religious group or figure, like Ayatoullah Khamenei in present day Iran. Even in Saudi Arabia, which has the most religiously based regime, the king and members of government are not members of a clergy in any way. Yes they are supported by religous figures, like the mufti, but they themselves are not religous figures. In fact, and again to the best of my knowledge, Sunni Islam does not have a clergy, not in the Catholic sense at least. Yes you have scholars who study and interpret Islam but they are not infallible, and they acknowledge and even point to that. Usually fatwas end with something to the effect of "and god knows best", implying that this is our interpretation but we might be mistaken.
As for the Muslim Brotherhood, again I totally agree with the analysis. I'd say that their support might even weaken if they become a party. Some people sympathise with them mainly because they're discriminated against and criminalised, i.e. for being the underdogs. I'm personally neither for them nor against them, but at some point sympethised with them for being prosecuted. I view them as just another political player in the field that's entitled to voice it's views. However, among all the political players, they are the best organised and the most popular. I don't believe any other political party (from the formally existing ones, a new one may break this rule) can muster the 20% mentioned above. Anyway, let's hope for the best for Egypt
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername:
Hypocritical western leaders did what they always do. They supported their client right up until he fell, then they acted as if they had supported the uprising all along.
Yes, always made me wonder why the next dictator to be doesn't learn from his predecssors and not sell his soul to the devil. Saddam has seen the Shah, Ben Ali has seen Saddam, Mubarak has seen Ben Ali! Yet they all keep repeating the same mistake. Is it human nature, always wanting to gamble, to go for maximum gain while not paying attention to the risks?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername: If so, do you believe it would be a good thing for your own country of origin as well, which I believe is Germany, or is it just good for Egyptians?
Tiger is from East Germany, which used to be a country ruled by a dictatorship that persecuted, punished, and often killed those who disagreed with the government. Thus, your question is a very valid one. However, it's been asked various times by various people and never been answered …
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by hmozachsown: Anyone watching how the Army is moving out the people left in Tahrir? I'm not saying they nshould remain in the street... but the right to assemble is an intergal part of a democracy. Forcing people to leave, dragging them out, and arresting them if they dont go... THIS is NOT what should be happening.
I've seen on the BBC yesterday morning what appeared to be scuffles between army personnel and protestors. This really worried me and broke my heart. I genuinely hope it doesn't descend into violence, not after chieving all this peacefully. I think that the protestors should go back home now. Maybe do as somebody suggested, a rally every Friday. But to keep occupying the square I believe is wrong. I hope they're not losing touch with the rest of the population, because I believe many (if not most) people want some sort of normality back. I don't think it's in the army's interest to retain power more than is necessary. The political climate in the country does not allow it. We should start thinking now of who comes next. Do the youth movements have representatives? Several times on the BBC and AJ they talk to somebody who's presented as a youth leader. But nobody knows how representative those leaders are of the youth movement, and indeed of the whole population. You can bet that the powers that be (e.g. US et al) have already started opening channels of communication with them. I just hope they don't get corrupted like what they're replacing.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: [QB] Do the youth movements have representatives? Several times on the BBC and AJ they talk to somebody who's presented as a youth leader. But nobody knows how representative those leaders are of the youth movement, and indeed of the whole population. You can bet that the powers that be (e.g. US et al) have already started opening channels of communication with them. I just hope they don't get corrupted like what they're replacing.
Thanks Ayisha. Unfortunately I don't do "Fakebook", is there a website for that party. I couldn't find anything on google.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Thanks for putting it all to rights sono, I knew you would know more about everything than us here and wow amazing you can see everything about the blind man just from one pic!! Is he your FIL?
That was a weird post from sono. wasn't it? When exactly did she visit Egypt? Around 1935? Civil servants change their underwear [with some relief] upon retirement? Are we certain she's talking about Egypt, 'cos it doesn't seem like anywhere in the real world. And the guy probably was blind, hence the stick! And most assuredly he must has asked the film crew for money, or why would they say he was begging? And eerrrr So what? BTW, why does Cairo still not have decent garbage disposal yet? Here in Alex we've had Veolia for about 8 years, wheelies and roadsweepers, and pretty efficient well paid workforce. Is it decided by central government or the governate? Please don't answer this Sono, you told me about 5years ago that garbage here was burned in the streets.
over all this time you've protested that your former love interest was legally married to you despite your insistence that Orfi is a great advantage for foreign women...
You've never once eeked out any information on your love interest's profession, or that of his family.
Actually no empirical or personal information whatsoever.
By the way I stopped reading your posts quite some time ago, like I don't read Ayisha's either. Nothing useful, just provocations, insults and mindless chatter.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I swear ES is better than any soap opera Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required.
Metinoot, most guys who wear gallabeyas wear boxer shorts underneath.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: A new political party.
Thanks Ayisha. Unfortunately I don't do "Fakebook", is there a website for that party. I couldn't find anything on google.
Not that I can find but there is an email address and a Skype address
25januaryparty@gmail.com Skype ID: january.party
It's new, only saw it today and it's all in Arabic too so had the google translator in action. Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required.
Metinoot, most guys who wear gallabeyas wear boxer shorts underneath.
Hmmm, I'm tempted to ask how do you know that "most" of them do that, but I won't
Cheer up girls (or boys or trannies or whatever you lot are!)
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Thanks for putting it all to rights sono, I knew you would know more about everything than us here and wow amazing you can see everything about the blind man just from one pic!! Is he your FIL?
That was a weird post from sono. wasn't it? When exactly did she visit Egypt? Around 1935? Civil servants change their underwear [with some relief] upon retirement? Are we certain she's talking about Egypt, 'cos it doesn't seem like anywhere in the real world. And the guy probably was blind, hence the stick! And most assuredly he must has asked the film crew for money, or why would they say he was begging? And eerrrr So what? BTW, why does Cairo still not have decent garbage disposal yet? Here in Alex we've had Veolia for about 8 years, wheelies and roadsweepers, and pretty efficient well paid workforce. Is it decided by central government or the governate? Please don't answer this Sono, you told me about 5years ago that garbage here was burned in the streets.
over all this time you've protested that your former love interest was legally married to you despite your insistence that Orfi is a great advantage for foreign women...
You've never once eeked out any information on your love interest's profession, or that of his family.
Actually no empirical or personal information whatsoever.
By the way I stopped reading your posts quite some time ago, like I don't read Ayisha's either. Nothing useful, just provocations, insults and mindless chatter.
I don't mind being the chatter but you certainly are the mindless part of our little duet. Not reading me but manage to post provoking answers to my posts has to be an action of one with little mind.
Mo Ning!! Spill about this 'former love interest' in your brand new fantasy life, make up anything you want quick before she does!
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername:
I admire, however, your consistency. Hypocritical western leaders did what they always do. They supported their client right up until he fell, then they acted as if they had supported the uprising all along. You, on the other hand, just keep right on supporting your man.
Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
Only now does Tantawi curb his enthusiasm for contact with Israel.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required.
Metinoot, most guys who wear gallabeyas wear boxer shorts underneath.
OMG my hubby doesn't wear boxers, OMG that must mean he is ex govt too
To answer the query about Dalia knowing these kind of things, she has little mirrors on the tops of her shoes. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required.
Metinoot, most guys who wear gallabeyas wear boxer shorts underneath.
How do you know? X-ray eyes or gone around and lifted up those gallabeyas.
Personally I have made a number of visits to Egypt without my ex to accompany me, and one of the tasks was to bring back 100% Egyptian cotton underwear. For men.
Have you ever bought underwear for men in Egypt? Is it a personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt? Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: When these dudes retire they often give up western attire completely, free to not wear boxer shorts as undergarments which were required.
Metinoot, most guys who wear gallabeyas wear boxer shorts underneath.
OMG my hubby doesn't wear boxers, OMG that must mean he is ex govt too
To answer the query about Dalia knowing these kind of things, she has little mirrors on the tops of her shoes.
Can't imagine he'd let you go near him when his pants are down.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by longusername:
I admire, however, your consistency. Hypocritical western leaders did what they always do. They supported their client right up until he fell, then they acted as if they had supported the uprising all along. You, on the other hand, just keep right on supporting your man.
Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
Only now does Tantawi curb his enthusiasm for contact with Israel.
Sono has inside info on all govt officials even down to their undies and private calls. So glad to see you sono, where would we be without you and your corrupt govt ex in laws inside info and your extensive knowledge about Egypt and surrounding countries. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: I would never dare to speak in the name of all Germans, I think it goes without saying that this would be silly.
Personally, I don't know any German who supports Mubarak. I read some newspaper articles speaking about the possibility of him going to Germany, and the comments underneath the articles were 90% disapproving. Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power.
I'm relieved to see this post. It's good to have some balance.
I get that he's an old man, and he's been poorly, and he looks very sorry for himself, but...
TL, if/when Mugabe finally gets ousted, will you be inviting him too?
William tsk-tsk tut-tut Hague said in Parliament today that the call has come from Cairo to freeze the assets of a number of ex Egyptian ministers. Didn't say who.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
How on earth do you know this stuff?!!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
You made visits to Egypt without your ex because he refused to ever go back, he's not seen his own daughter since she was a year old.
As for 100% Egyptian cotton underwear, most of the best quality cotton is exported and what there is here is not only boxers, there are a wide range of mens undies, so still a load of bull as normal.
How do YOU know the man in the pic is not blind and is probably ex govt? Still not answered that one yet.
I hope you get a v-day call from someone, hasn't your children called you lately? [/QB][/QUOTE] spoke to my daughter this morning and my son on Friday. I speak to my kids regular, do you remember you even had one?
How is your daughter? Did you even think to get her away from a country in the middle of a revolution or was she one of the many street kids in the square?
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: How do you know?
a) Gallabeyas tend to be a bit see-through, particularly when the sun is shining. b) Guys often lift their gallabeyas – because they are using a water hose, or because they are peeing somewhere etc., and then you can often see their underpants. c) People hang out their laundry for everyone to see.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Have you ever bought underwear for men in Egypt?
No.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Is it a personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
Thanks for the laugh! I just imagined myself walking around and lifting men's gallabeyas … "Exuse me, ya hagg, I Just wanna have a look at your underwear!" Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Netanyahu hasn't had a call returned from Obama in six months. Netanyahu cannot get Obama on the phone nor can he get Tantawi on the phone.
Netanyahu had 5 minutes in which Tantawi told him off that by speaking with him he looks bad in the eyes of Egyptians.
How on earth do you know this stuff?!!
My ex told me. Its been on Arab satellite TV, he watches it with his roommate and the dude emphasized what my ex stated.
I think its been in Egyptians news papers as well. But you'd have to read Arabic to know.
My ex has a distant relation, possibly a cousin of his father's who is on the transitory council too. An old general who doesn't work within the Ministry of Interior, he hasn't been home in a month. He won't be home for several more months, and his wife is in a frenzy going back and forth between Shebin and Cairo with his food and clothes.
Not that this relative will give us current inside information, he's not sleeping every night. Nor is he staying in the same hotel room every night, nor is he at the same phone number every day, he doesn't have a mobile phone because that would be to glitzy.
My ex wasn't exactly supportive of the demonstrators until a relative was appointed to the transitory council. Now he's paying attention and is up until 6am every night watching the news. He'll call me in a few hours to give me an update.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: It just blows me away.
I wish someone would! Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: How do you know?
a) Gallabeyas tend to be a bit see-through, particularly when the sun is shining. b) Guys often lift their gallabeyas – because they are using a water hose, or because they are peeing somewhere etc., and then you can often see their underpants. c) People hang out their laundry for everyone to see.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Have you ever bought underwear for men in Egypt?
No.
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Is it a personal past time to go around and look up the hems of men in Egypt?
Thanks for the laugh! I just imagined myself walking around and lifting men's gallabeyas … "Exuse me, ya hagg, I Just wanna have a look at your underwear!"
I dare ya!!!! Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema) (Member # 9889) on :
Dudes - can you take the boxer shorts and gigolo discussions to either the bitching thread or the love and marriage section? Shokran.
PS by popular demand I have cleaned most of those posts out of this thread.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema): Dudes - can you take the boxer shorts and gigolo discussions to either the bitching thread or the love and marriage section? Shokran.
soz shanta
sono take it to the bitching thread get some work done, or go play on the highway.
I'm out
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda (was Qadeema): Dudes - can you take the boxer shorts and gigolo discussions to either the bitching thread or the love and marriage section? Shokran.
soz shanta
sono take it to the bitching thread get some work done, or go play on the highway.
I'm out
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
The 82-year-old former head of state is in a 'severe psychological condition and is declining treatment despite his illness' but he is not in a coma, the pro-government Al-Gomhuria daily said, citing sources close to Mubarak.
This has completely deteriorated into a soap opera.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Makes you wonder if the house arrest rumours are true and this is just some excuse for naffing off with his loot.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Makes you wonder if the house arrest rumours are true and this is just some excuse for naffing off with his loot.
I am sure he attempted to secure a German visa, but more than likely has been refused by nearly every viable nation.
I wouldn't doubt he has "loot" under names of friends or confidants who have never been out of Egypt and that he later could recover.
But most of the NDP leading member's foreign bank accounts have been frozen and are under investigation.
BabaMu isn't going anywhere, and it seems he's hit rock bottom.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
Egypt’s first digital wall of shame
As Egypt’s first wall of shame list, The Arabic Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI) launched a new website announcing names of public figures who stood against the Egyptian revolution that forced former president Hosni Mubarak out of the country. The website lists artists, TV news commentators, sports figures, actors and others. The title of the new website el-3ar means shame.
The ANHRI, an organization that defends freedom of information and freedom of speech in the MENA region said they started this list ”to expose where people stood during the time of the revolution and to prevent them from diluting the public and betraying the national conciseness.”
Being with freedom of expression and criticizing these figures is not a paradox for AHNRI.
“We are with freedom of expression and with people taking sides but to accuse others of being foreign agents and accuse them of betrayal is a mean to oppress others who have anti-dictatorship stands,” AHNRI said in a press release.
The rights group added that many of these public icons changed their stances immediately after the regime fell.
“Changing views that quick is disgraceful,” AHNRI said.
The infamous list contains cinema icons Adel Imam, Yosra and Elham Shahin, who according to ANHRI, were fierce defenders of Mubarak and his regime.
Adel Imam called the protests “absurdness coming from outsiders who are not related to Egypt.” Imam is a regional icon in comedy and acted in pro-government films that demonized Islamic groups.
Actress Yosra, who partnered with Imam in many films, said she “didn’t find any thing negative with the regime’s policies for the last 30 years.”
On the media list was Ans Al Fiki, the former minister of media, currently under house arrest, who led the poor and misleading coverage of the state owned TV stations where the numbers of protesters were cut drastically in his news reports and the theory of protesters being foreign agents, Israeli and American, working to serve foreign agenda originated.
Also landing on the list is former head of the press syndicate, Makram Mohamed Ahmed, who many journalists during the protests asked for his resignation as well. Many journalists in Egypt are not happy with Makram and have accused him of allaying the regime on their expense.
Most of the media names on the list are either working for the country’s state TV or the privately owned Al Mehwar. Al Mehwar channel was met with a massive upheaval of criticism for its coverage of the protests. In one of its shows, they hosted a woman who identified herself as a journalist and said that she was one of the young people protesting in Tahrir and that she had been trained in the US to protest and was paid for it.
Many loved sports stars had taken Muabrak’s side in the media during the unrest including Egypt’s national soccer coach Hassan Shehata and Zamalek club stars Hossam and Ibrahim Hassan, and Egypt goal keeper star Essam Al-Hadary as well as Mido, Egypt’s star who also plays for the Zamalek club.
The list is being updated and more names will be added according to the website.
I have no idea if there is any existing political group or figure behind this, just sharing it for information.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
That's what I figured but thought I'd run it across you all. I hope the gun shots are getting few and far between for you these days!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
They are for me, not sure about in other areas. I'm really thankful it's settled down. I think it was really starting to wear on me.
Anyways, as to the rumor, someone else might have a different opinion, that's just mine. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne:
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
There have been more rumors going around since this started than you could shake a stick at.
To me, that one doesn't sound believable at all.
People love a good conspiracy theory. Unfortunately there usually isn't a way to prove any of them.
Also, there are quite a few Muslims who would love to smear the name of Israel at any chance given. *shrug*
That's what I figured but thought I'd run it across you all. I hope the gun shots are getting few and far between for you these days!
Its been part of Mubarak's PR plan all these years to blame Israel for his bad choices. Bad habits die hard, and administrative officials within the Ministry of Information do not want to take blame for a directive handed down from Mubarak.
The way the "Internet backbone" works is not decided by neighboring nations. Each local telecommunications company and supporting government has to manage telecommunication infastructure on its own accord.
Israel doesn't own or administer Egyptians ISPs (Internet Service Providers) which distributes bandwidth on existing fiber optic and ISDN cable.
Israel does share a Satellite with Egypt for its international calls, some of which are routed over the internet. But its up to the nation's government to shut down ISPs and Mobile phone networks.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Is there any truth to the rumor going around that Israel actually were the ones to cut off all internet access in Egypt? At least four of my husband's friends, none of them friends with each other, have told him this.
If it is true, I have to wonder why? I mean that was what cinched the deal and since they loved Mubarak why would they do that?
I would say it's rubbish.
From what I understand, the ISPs simply removed the DNS look ups (which probably simply meant turning their DNS servers off).
Internet connections were actually LIVE but whatever you typed in didn't go anywhere because the browsers didn't know where to look.
Initially, people were accessing Facebook and Twitter via proxies, but these gradually got blocked. Some people started using the direct numbers and they started to get cute enough to block those, so I am given to understand that facebook actually changed it's IP a few times to give people a chance. So, only one thing for it, the 'kill' switch. Remove the indices.
If that is meaningless to you, picture it this way:
The internet is like a huge giant warehouse of files just heaped around the place. Each pile has a number called the IP which tells a computer where to go look.
Each ISP connecting to the internet has a lookup table which tell it which heap of files to go to.
So, for example, there's a pile of files sitting here: 128.242.240.52
So if you know the number, you can type it straight in where you normally type the web address and go straight there (try it )
However, most people don't like numbers too well and sometimes the location of the pile of files moves around.
So, instead, they tell you - when you get online, type in www.twitter.com - your ISPs DNS servers index will then say - aha, if you want twitter, you have to go to that heap over there 128.242.240.52 and take you there. And if the files move, the index will get updated so it will go to the new numbers. If you remove the index, it won't have a clue.
Hope that helps someone understand DNS servers!
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4
Shanta's completely right in this, but went into detail which most people keel over when they just start to get the jist of it.
Its like the mail stopping when the US postal service stays home.
Yet the US postal service doesn't deliver streaming porn and real time shopping.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess.
Moahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
So let me get this straight. All the 30 years Mubarak was in the office people cleaned up their sh#t?????
Next you will tell me that all the Egyptians who threw trash on the sidewalks, out of the cars and out of the windows did so because they were depressed and it was all Mubarak's fault?
Ayisha, where are you living??? That country is a dirty filthy mess and no one can argue about it.
It takes a complete change of mentality of the whole nation to be cleaning up after themselves so they can be proud of their own country. A few hundreds or thousand people on FB won't do it - EVERY single Egyptian has to contribute to a clean, safe and healthy environment and unfortunately this is not the case but as you say, Ayisha, you know better.... you live in Egypt, right.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Give the people a chance! How do you know they won't?
Someone I know (Egyptian) once asked another why he was throwing rubbish on the street and the answer was 'to upset the government'. It's a tiny act of rebellion.
Yes, there's a long way to go. And right now, I'm analogizing the situation as similar to when in the UK 17 or 18 year old boys pass their driving tests, then go straight out and hare around the lanes at top speed, then prang their car after a month or so (or within a few days in many cases) and then learn to drive more sensibly.
But there is good stuff coming out. Yesterday, hearing horse and camel owners discussing how to bring animal rights in, seeing things like Egypt Vision 2030, and apparently there was an "Egypt Tomorrow" conference yesterday which I'm trying to find out more about.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And Mr. Mubarak is very much respected and welcomed in Germany
Is he?
Yes, he is and so is his wife. Funny to realize you had to google to check out the fact for yourself.
Germany had excellent relations with Mubarak, so did France, Italy, Russia and other nations. Why you think Merkel, Sarkozy not even Obama directly demanded Mubarak to step down immediately?
And Suzanne Mubarak received Honorary Citizenship of the Universität Stuttgart (FOR non-German folks: the city of Stuttgart is located in Germany) for her social commitment and her dedication to the rights of children and women - SURPRISE SURPRISE. Bet you didn't know that!!!
Please, Dalia, feel free and google the info yourself cause you won't believe me anyway. Yeah things happening in Germany but you can't know that because you don't live here.
The Mubaraks did many good things in their own country. They fought against FGM (one of your favorite subjects here on ES isn't that so), overpopulation, spousal abuse, women and children rights, human trafficking, equal job opportunities (yes Mrs. Mubarak supported fully that women can work too!), illiteracy (libraries sprung up) among other things.
Suzanne Mubarak was the President of the Advisory Board of the National Council for Motherhood and Childhood in Egypt and was also President and Founder of the Suzanne Mubarak Women's International Peace Movement
among other important social activities. Please contact me if you want a complete list of accomplishments.
Under the Mubaraks tourism was flourishing. 15 million foreign tourists alone in the year 2010, wow!!! See how many foreign investors spent their money on Egyptian holiday resorts and they are still growing as I type this. Millions of jobs got created during his presidency.
Of course like the rest of the ladies here you have to jump on the bandwagon and have to denounce Mubarak as a 'tyrant'.
I am wondering why you would live in a country where another Saddam Hussein (that's with who you basically compare Mubarak to, isn't that so) reigns and brings so much misery upon it's people, why would you stay in this country for what - 8 years - and support its economy?
Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
See what you have now with a military junta for the next six months and a government who will have trouble to satisfy quickly the visions of the #jan25 movement.
IMHO Egypt's population continues to grow and grow and that's the major problem for the country and the living conditions of its people . As I stated in the other - unfortunately locked - thread from 80 million to an estimated 99 million in the year 2020.
Egypt is not a rich country like Saudi Arabia. Even the most democratic president will have no chance to get rid of the overpopulation and will be able to create jobs for every single Egyptian. It's just an impossible thing to do. But people are dreaming and it's a good thing because it creates visions and hopes and at least people will get busy and try to achieve them.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
You can link to posts in the locked thread from here. Find the post you want to link to, right click the little icon on the left before the word 'posted' (eg on your post above it is a blue arrow, on most posts it is a yellow 'message pad') and you can copy and paste the location into here.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: I would never dare to speak in the name of all Germans, I think it goes without saying that this would be silly.
Personally, I don't know any German who supports Mubarak. I read some newspaper articles speaking about the possibility of him going to Germany, and the comments underneath the articles were 90% disapproving. Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power.
Cairo smog must really get on your nerves, haha!!!
Hm, last time I checked Mubarak was indeed a Muslim so it doesn't make sense to offer someone exile who is Muslim when you are oh-so "Islamophobic".
And why would you state "Those who support Mubarak are in most cases Islamophobes and/or people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood obtaining too much power."???
Are you afraid of the MBs gaining too much power? What if, Dalia???
Mubarak is gone but the MB are meant to stay. Egyptians will decide in a democratic election if they want the MB to rule the country or at least have a strong influence in which direction Egypt will go.
Again Mubarak was respected by other nation's leaders so therefore they don't mind offering him exile. Does the truth not fit into your little box of thinking????
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
It is well to remember how Hosni Mubarak came to power: He was vice president when the moderate Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic extremists for making peace with Israel.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
It is well to remember how Hosni Mubarak came to power: He was vice president when the moderate Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic extremists for making peace with Israel.
He was shot by 3 soldiers while in a parade.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Was very moved when i saw on TV news Egyptians themselves taking care in cleaning Tahrir Sq,including scrubbing the stone panels under some statue off grafitti.
Guess why they did it - because the whole world was watching. Unfortunately CNN and BBC World did not step into living quarters in Cairo and showed the many still existing piles of rubbish.
They did it because they made the mess and Egyptians usually clean up their own mess.
Moahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
So let me get this straight. All the 30 years Mubarak was in the office people cleaned up their sh#t?????
You misunderstood what I was saying. In ALL the Egyptian homes I have been it is always clean and immaculate, even though they have very little. Any time we have had people over for food they will ALL contribute to cleaning up (not pot washing), I am talking about where they 'live' and when they visit. IF I or they had a cleaner or someone on hand that was PAID to do that then that's another story. Once rubbish from the homes goes out it is the governments responsibility to dispose of it. For 18 days these people 'lived' in that square, it was their home, and for that they cleaned up after themselves.
quote:Next you will tell me that all the Egyptians who threw trash on the sidewalks, out of the cars and out of the windows did so because they were depressed and it was all Mubarak's fault?
No I wont tell you that.
quote:Ayisha, where are you living??? That country is a dirty filthy mess and no one can argue about it.
I'm not arguing about it, yes this country does need a better rubbish disposal system and recycling, and THAT IS Mubarak's fault.
nevertheless I do hope you have a wonderful holiday in our dirty filthy country.
quote:It takes a complete change of mentality of the whole nation to be cleaning up after themselves so they can be proud of their own country. A few hundreds or thousand people on FB won't do it - EVERY single Egyptian has to contribute to a clean, safe and healthy environment and unfortunately this is not the case but as you say, Ayisha, you know better.... you live in Egypt, right.
Yes a change of mentality comes with hope for the future, no one is saying that a change of mentality is not needed, they have had 30 years of this and I'm sure it took East Germans a bit of time to realize they were free to change too.
A few hundred or thousand people on Facebook ousted a 30 year old destructive (to it's people) regime peacefully, who knows what they can do next. There is now HOPE, there was none before.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Or if you live in the Presidential zone it is lovely and clean all of the time
I remember maybe about 8 years back an Egyptian friend of mine threw litter on the floor (and as a Brit it has been ingrained in me that this is very very wrong) and i was mortified and picked it up. He told me to put it back down as if there is no litter to sweep then many folk would lose their jobs. His theory was others litter dropping kept others in jobs...
All the Egyptian homes I regularly visit are immacualte.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yes, he is and so is his wife. Funny to realize you had to google to check out the fact for yourself.
Who said anything about googling?
I'm in contact with Germans all the time, and everyone I know is happy he is gone and not too fond of the idea of Germany granting exile to a dictator.
The newspaper article I linked to was to give you an idea of what a big number of people is thinking.
I am aware of the fact that there are other opinions out there, but my impression is that those are not the majority.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And Suzanne Mubarak received Honorary Citizenship of the Universität Stuttgart (FOR non-German folks: the city of Stuttgart is located in Germany) for her social commitment and her dedication to the rights of children and women - SURPRISE SURPRISE. Bet you didn't know that!!!
So what? That's just politics. There are close ties between Cairo and Stuttgart; the university of Stuttgart is one of the two patron universities of the German university in Cairo.
Do you think that the average German citizen has such a favourable opinion of Suzanne Mubarak, or why did you bring this up at all? I don't really see the point.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I am wondering why you would live in a country where another Saddam Hussein (that's with who you basically compare Mubarak to, isn't that so)
Of course like the rest of the ladies here you have to jump on the bandwagon and have to denounce Mubarak as a 'tyrant'.
Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. It would be nice if you could stop making things up, drop the aggressive attitude and the ad hominem attacks and have a respectful exchange of thoughts and opinions instead. I don't understand all the bitching and the overly negative attitude. Yes, there are very tough times ahead for Egypt, yes, there are countless problems in the country we all have been complaining about on here and elsewhere for years. But there is no way back now, and we have to give people a chance, for God's sake.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Yes a change of mentality comes with hope for the future, no one is saying that a change of mentality is not needed, they have had 30 years of this and I'm sure it took East Germans a bit of time to realize they were free to change too.
And we are still waiting for an answer to the question why it was ok for the East Germans to fight for democracy and freedom, but not for the Egyptians. Seems a bit hypocritical to me that one is acceptable, but the other is not.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
It was ok because West Germany could afford to shoulder the cost.
- Germans faced no problem with Islamic extremists
- East Germany was an developed country
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
by Eric Margolis
Have the Egyptians exchanged totalitarian rule by Mubarak for totalitarian rule by Mubarak’s handpicked generals?
"Plus ça change," say the cynical French, "plus c’est la même chose."
Many thoughtful Egyptians will be recalling this "bon mot" as the watch one ruler, the ousted Husni Mubarak, replaced by a military junta led by Field Marshall Mohammed Tantawi.
Egyptians are getting more Mubarakism, sans Mubarak, at least for now. This is not what most Egyptians want or deserve.
Many Egyptians are still euphoric over the ouster of Gen. Mubarak, known to one and all as "pharaoh."
Most of them do not yet seem to have realized that the people who have taken over the regime are the very same generals, policemen and tycoons who ran it under Mubarak.
Egypt’s senior generals are part of the ruling establishment. Many spend more time managing their business affairs than military matters. Such is also the case in many other Arab one-party states.
As in Pakistan, Egypt’s army is up to its helmets in big business: shopping centers, tourism, property, hotels, steel, telecom. Few among Egypt’s top brass wants to end their gravy train by changing the status quo. They are ready to fight to the last mall or stock split.
As I watch Egypt’s slow-motion revolution, I wonder if somewhere among the armed forces is another young colonel who loves his people even more than he loves real estate.
Egypt’s younger officers must be thinking about the example of Gamal Abdel Nasser, who seized power in 1952 after Egypt’s disastrous war with Israel in 1947–8. Perhaps there is a young colonel or even major who may try to seize power and emulate Nasser, who is still adored by many Egyptians in spite of his disastrous mistakes. People have forgotten many of them. What they do remember was that when Nasser died of a heart attack in 1970, his family had little money, and they recall that Nasser spoke for Egypt, not foreign powers.
So far, the so-called Egyptian Revolution has only been a game of musical chairs. The United States still dominates Egypt’s military, policy, and economy. Washington provides wheat without which Egypt cannot feed itself.
Israel still exercises powerful influence over Egypt thanks to its supporters in the US Congress. An angry word from Jerusalem, and Egypt’s wheat could be cut off. Egyptian and Israeli intelligence are as entwined as was Israel’s Mossad with the Iranian Savak secret police.
The massive pyramid of Egypt’s police state – to use a fine metaphor from the brilliant Albanian writer Ismail Kadere – will not be easily lifted, perhaps without a full scale, violent revolution. To date, the revolt on the Nile has not even produced a Kerensky, never mind a Lenin.
If Egyptians feel cheated by the change of power in Cairo, as many will, and violent demonstrations begin, what will happen if the junta orders a battalion commanded by a colonel to open fire on protesters?
The first young officer who refuses and orders his men to join the demonstrators could become Egypt’s new hero. Nasser’s ghost haunts Cairo.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv:
- Germans faced no problem with Islamic extremists
Egypt probably faces less problem with Islamic extremists than UK does, or America or many other of the 'western' world, so your constant banging on about Islamic extremists is a bit out of place really.
I was coming here a few years ago, I think around the time of the Taba bombing. I was stopped at Birmingham Airport by security who asked where I was going, why etc etc, then asked me wasn't I worried about travelling to Egypt. I reminded him that Birmingham and London had also recently had bomb attacks, in fact more than Egypt had had in that time, hence Egypt was a safer option to be in than UK was.
It still is.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Washington provides wheat without which Egypt cannot feed itself.
forgetting links again vw! not polite dear girl, not polite at all
Concerning wheat, there has been something on tv hubby was explaining, there was some time ago a HUGE peice of agricultural land that had started to have wheat grown on it. For some unknown reason it was all stopped. This seemed to be in a program they were discussing many other things that had been started up to employ and feed Egyptians, all had been stopped by govt. Now these things as well as many other things are being looked into.
The army may well be governing us right now BUT there is now freedom of speech, freedom of the press and there are many with a voice and a lot to say. Many things are now coming out as more and more find their voices are not halted which is leading to investigation into all areas of everything. InshaAllah they will eventually get down to Samir Farag!
Hubby spent yesterday, he's with them today too, with French news TV crew and some from ........forgot, African country beginning with C........, he was based in Amman though, they were interviewing all walks of life on what they now thought about the revolution and about tourism here, about MB and all sorts. They had arrived from Cairo where they had spent 2 weeks in Tahrir.
this country IS a RICH country, but the men at the top were corrupt and it suited 'foreign governments' to keep Egypt as a 3rd world country. Now things are staring to change as the people, those that matter, get a voice they are allowed to use. All will be watching whoever gets into power and any at the top will now be held accountable as now the Egyptian people understand what democracy is all about and that they have rights over those at the top.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
I like what you have just said Citizen. You expressed it perfectly! Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: A few thoughts Egypt is a filthy country Yes, it is. It is also poor, corrupt, mostly ignorant, polluted, crowded, underdeveloped etc... this is why we needed the REVOLUTION, It was a volcano waiting to erupt and instead of blowing its top off (as most people expected sooner or later), lava emerged from cracks and flowed slowly down the slopes covering up the old and... well enough of that metaphor you know what I mean Change of attitude Absolutely essential, and it's happening already. Everyone, rich and poor that I have talked to, feels a huge sense of relief, and pride for the first time. They really DO want to improve this country. This only happened after Mubarak stepped down. There was the fear of instability before, but once he'd gone, EVERYBODY celebrated (that I know of). He was so despised and disrespected. People lived in fear their whole lives, could not imagine not having that fear. Difficult road ahead Yes, terrible, and it still might all go wrong, but it could not have been worse. The difficulty now is understanding democracy and dissent. Big awareness campaign needed Military still here Yes, its a worry. They are very entrenched and also corrupt and have their own old regime power structure. But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest. Now political parties will be allowed to form for the first time. And the press, amazing! the official newspapers are all writing freely for the first time ever.
There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
I like what you have just said Citizen. You expressed it perfectly!
Ditto!
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Oh may I just add that the military had a meeting with a delegation of the young 'facebook' people yesterday, The young people reported a complete difference in attitude from the old guys, no more patronizing 'Listen son, I'm like your father I know what's good for you".., no they actually listened to them as equals and respected their views. This is HUGE.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Some facebook and other groups where people are beginning to gather their ideas on the new Egypt:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Germany had excellent relations with Mubarak, so did France, Italy, Russia and other nations.
France have said they won't have him. Italy I think will, Russia couldn't tell you, but France won't.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
A little OT but has anyone heard/read about when they might open the border again to Gaza?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
According to BBC World - Army Council has said work in changing constitution to be completed in 10 days.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
And we are still waiting for an answer to the question why it was ok for the East Germans to fight for democracy and freedom, but not for the Egyptians. Seems a bit hypocritical to me that one is acceptable, but the other is not.
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: It was ok because West Germany could afford to shoulder the cost.
- Germans faced no problem with Islamic extremists
- East Germany was an developed country
So....
1/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because _______ can't afford to shoulder the cost.
What is the "cost" of a democracy versus a dictatorship, exactly?
2/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because they face a problem with Islamist extremist.
So does Germany, UK, US, etc.
3/ It's not ok for Egyptians to have democracy because it's not a developed country.
vwwvv, are you on drugs or is the only thing you ever read your bible?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Mubarak ordered the army to mow over the demonstrators with tanks on the evening of January 30th (the Sunday night - day after the prisoners escaped - ahem). The tank commanders refused. God bless a military where the troops DO question orders - it was established at Nuremberg that "I was obeying orders" is no defence in war crimes trials.
"We had witnessed many similar sentiments from the army over the past two weeks. But the critical moment came on the evening of 30 January when, it is now clear, Mubarak ordered the Egyptian Third Army to crush the demonstrators in Tahrir Square with their tanks after flying F-16 fighter bombers at low level over the protesters.
Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.
Thus when General Hassan al-Rawani told the massive crowds yesterday evening that "everything you want will be realised – all your demands will be met", the people cried back: "The army and the people stand together – the army and the people are united. The army and the people belong to one hand."
(PS I don't know what his sources were).
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I really like the way Robert Fisk writes. This was a good one:
Many of the senior tank commanders could be seen tearing off their headsets – over which they had received the fatal orders – to use their mobile phones. They were, it now transpires, calling their own military families for advice. Fathers who had spent their lives serving the Egyptian army told their sons to disobey, that they must never kill their own people.
So really, the senior official who GAVE the orders are the same ones currently running the country. And it's the low-level rank officers in the actual tanks that refused to carry them out.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
I was reading Robert Fisk day by day, first thing every morning, he was obviously getting to his hotel late and writing his daily despatch for the morning paper.
He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Get to know better about Tahrir square. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Get to know better about Tahrir square.
wow, what a brill pic!
TL you need to have a click round that pic, look at the rubbish bins, see how these guys were organized better than anything else I have seen in Egypt and in less that 3 weeks!!
This country will be great and proud as it's guys like these that are it's FUTURE and it will be a great one!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Yes, I found that a couple of days ago. Whoever said Egyptians can't organize, it just proves they CAN.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Yes, I found that a couple of days ago.
Me too, I like the way they did it. And, yes, it shows very well how organized they were.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Military still here ................ But there was no other choice. All opposition has been repressed so there is nobody to step into power. So far they have behaved honourably, the constitution had to be abolished, it was tailored to the dictator, the parliament had to be dissolved since elections were rigged. The whole regime was based on cheating, lies, suppression, self-interest.
............ There is a great feeling of hope sweeping the nation, so let's enjoy it while it lasts, no doubt disillusion will set in fairly soon and then we'll have to wait for real improvement to people's lives for people to bless this revolution.
I totally agree with you citizen, well said. I've said something similar on another thread where somebody was being very cynical.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I just got a billet doux from the Armed Forces:
المجلس الأعلى ق.م:نناشد المواطنين الشرفاء تضافر جهودهم لنصل معا بالوطن الى بر الأمان
which according to Google translate means:
Supreme Council of BC. m: appeal to the honorable citizens pool their efforts together to get the homeland to safety
Give 'em a chance chaps!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I just got a billet doux from the Armed Forces:
المجلس الأعلى ق.م:نناشد المواطنين الشرفاء تضافر جهودهم لنصل معا بالوطن الى بر الأمان
which according to Google translate means:
Supreme Council of BC. m: appeal to the honorable citizens pool their efforts together to get the homeland to safety
Give 'em a chance chaps!
do you mean a billet deux mon ami? Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Non, mon ami, je mean un billet doux (a sweet letter)
Or as we railway buffs used to call emails from Our Glorious Leader - a billydoo
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Again, totally agree citizen. Fisk is a great ans fair journalist/writer. He's also very familiar with the region, he's written a mamoth of a book on the middle east. I believe he lived there for many years (possibly still does), I think mainly in Lebanon. Another good one is Frank Gardner of the BBC, the one who lost his leg in a blast in Saudi Arabia.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Non, mon ami, je mean un billet doux (a sweet letter)
Or as we railway buffs used to call emails from Our Glorious Leader - a billydoo
ah oui, d'accord
Thought it was ticket #2 Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I just got a billet doux from the Armed Forces:
المجلس الأعلى ق.م:نناشد المواطنين الشرفاء تضافر جهودهم لنصل معا بالوطن الى بر الأمان
which according to Google translate means:
Supreme Council of BC. m: appeal to the honorable citizens pool their efforts together to get the homeland to safety
Give 'em a chance chaps!
LOL, KM in arabic can mean BC, but in this context it means Kowwat Mossallaha, i.e. Armed Forces
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Get to know better about Tahrir square.
Great pic indeed! Have you guys noticed how they called the toilet el-hezb el-waty, a variation on the words el-hezb el-watany which is the NDP Lol
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
I also found it funny that the clinics were called mustashfa al thaura – revolution hospital.
That's one of the things I really liked … that despite the seriousness of the situation Egyptians didn't lose their sense of humour.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Again, totally agree citizen. Fisk is a great ans fair journalist/writer. He's also very familiar with the region, he's written a mamoth of a book on the middle east. I believe he lived there for many years (possibly still does), I think mainly in Lebanon. Another good one is Frank Gardner of the BBC, the one who lost his leg in a blast in Saudi Arabia.
I have the book and got it signed by him when he gave a lecture at Saqiat El Sawy a couple of years ago. I told him to take care of himself. He's such a risk taker. LIves in Beirut speaks fluent Arabic.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I really like the way Robert Fisk writes. This was a good one:
Fisk appears to have largely dropped his "blame America and ignore the British empire" slant.
About time and it might actually earn him some accolades for his long career covering events that are often ignored.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I really like the way Robert Fisk writes. This was a good one:
Fisk appears to have largely dropped his "blame America and ignore the British empire" slant.
About time and it might actually earn him some accolades for his long career covering events that are often ignored.
Read his book, he blamed the British plenty
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Again, totally agree citizen. Fisk is a great ans fair journalist/writer. He's also very familiar with the region, he's written a mamoth of a book on the middle east. I believe he lived there for many years (possibly still does), I think mainly in Lebanon. Another good one is Frank Gardner of the BBC, the one who lost his leg in a blast in Saudi Arabia.
Fisk does skimp on alot of historical information, obviously doesn't read Arab history written by Arabs.
Fisk has a a few books, and while readers reviews are great; think tanks and Arab intellectuals find fault with his texts. Basically Fisk books, region journalism coverage shores up the usual assumptions westerners developed of the Middle East via mainstream journalism.
Thomas Friedman is our American counterpart to Fisk. Whats frightening is Friedman is from Minneapolis and he sounds like a Jew with strong Zionist brainwashing. Fisk is missing Zionist commentary, but his observations certainly support many Zionist reactions.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I really like the way Robert Fisk writes. This was a good one:
Fisk appears to have largely dropped his "blame America and ignore the British empire" slant.
About time and it might actually earn him some accolades for his long career covering events that are often ignored.
Read his book, he blamed the British plenty
Which book?
His news coverage he mainly refers to historical sources documented by Brits and Europeans, his historical sources by Arabs are no-where to be seen.
I could repost a good 20 journalism articles quips in which he takes a very tired old anti-American slant.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Fisk does skimp on alot of historical information, obviously doesn't read Arab history written by Arabs.
Is it just me or did anyone else laugh? I mean considering the timing and the thread
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
On Saturday I bought a copy of The Scotsman newspaper as a souvenir of the event as these days we get all our news on line and I felt it was important to have a tangible piece of history for ever.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
@Ayisha: No. And yes.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East
Most of the first chapter is conspiracy theories on the CIA and Osama bin-Laden.
This is the bibliography from chapters 2 and 3, showing this book is mainly a memoir with a "terrorism fantasy ideologue" slant.
CHAPTER 2
1. William Johnston, Tom Graham, V. C, A Tale ofthe Afghan War, London, Thomas Nelson & Sons, 1900. 2. Burnes, Cabool. 3. Afghanistan and Nepal, pp. 26-27. 4. Sykes, Durand, P. 96. 5. Ibid., P. 117, facsimile of the handwritten letter from Durand to Her Sykes, January 26, 1895. Durand included a poem he had composed on the death of a British trooper appropriate Victorian verse: "Oh, we have found, with his young face / looking skyward ruthless Afghan ... Lying there in the middle, in the plain / where men charged in vain, / fighting at all and before all dead / sewn for many deadly blows. " 6. Ibid., P. 207. 7. Ibid., 216-217. 8. Simon Winchester, "Russia's back door £ 350 Million ', The Guardian, May 8, 1978. 9. Griffiths, Afghanistan, p. 174. 10. See Centlivre-Demont Micheline, Popular Art in Afghanistan: Paintings on Trucks, Mosques and Tea-Houses, Graz (Austria), Akademische Druck-u. Sanstalt-Verlag, 1976. 11. Statement by Minister of Foreign Affairs, Tehran, December 30, 1979. 12. Interview with author, Tehran, July 9, 1980. 13. The Times, January 22, 1980. 14. Mills, Pathan Revolts, pp. 108-109.
CHAPTER 3
1. See Winston Churchill, My Early Life: A Roving Commission, London, Thornton Butterworth, 1930, p. 156. 2. See, for example, Literatumaia Gazeta, February 20, 1980, p. 9. 3. I wrote exactly the same in my story to the newspaper, as if that fact deserves to be recorded just extraordinary. See The Times, February 18, 1980. 4. Griffiths, Afghanistan, pp. 182-183. 5. Anthony Hyman, "Arab Involvement in the Afghan War," in The Beirut Re-view: AJournal on Lebanon and the middleeast, 7, Spring 1994, p. 78. 6. Ibid., P. 79. 7. Douglas-Home Letter to author, March 26, 1980.
Noam Chomsky has a had a field day on this guy.
If Robert Fisk actually spoke Arabic, and read Arabic he'd be citing actual Arabic texts, not just his previous work and historical British national edicts on the region.
Robert Fisk's books are mainly a way he can produce income to retire on, a re-hashment of his flawed journalism career.
Basically he's a guy who has had his boots on ME soil yet still thinks like John Espito and Thomas Friedman.
Here's chapter 4 and 5 bibliography:
CHAPTER 4
1. Roosevelt, Countercoup, p.18. 2. Woodhouse, Somelhing Ventures, p.45. 3. Bill, The Eagle and the Lion, pp. 69-70, citing L.P. Elwell-Sutton, Persian OH: A Study in PowerPolitics (London: Lawrence and Wishart, 1955), p.195. 4. Bill, p. 69. 5. Ibid., P. 96. 6. Woodhouse, p. 132. 7. Halliday, have, p.87. 8. Kapuscinski, Shah ofshahs, pp. 36-37. 9. Rapport de synthese faisant suite at the premiere series of visiting delegates des du Comité International de la Croix Rouge to 3.087 détenus de sécurité dans Prisons Ira-Nienna 18, 1977. 10. See Frank Giles, "Why Iran Feels it Needs No advice frpm the West on human rights", Sunday Times, April 16, 1978. 11. See Edward Mortimer, "Iran: The Greatest Revolution Since 1917," Spec-Tator, February 17, 1979. 12. Shawcross, Shah'sLastRide, p. 218. 13. The longer report in English that exists in Tehran on the initial appearance in court of Hoveyda appeared on the international edition of Kay-han, 17 March 1979. 14. Author's letter to Ivan Barnes, March 30, 1979. 15. Shawcross, p. 317. 16. These and subsequent quotations are taken from the 85 volumes of documents rebuilt U.S. Embassy, published in Tehran between 1979 and 1985. You can find a summary of the involvement of In-tezam and Bazargan on Bill, pp. 290-3. 17. Ebtekar, Takeover, p. 98. 18. The Last Message: The Political and Divine Will Khomei ofHis Holiness Imam-ni (Tehran: The Imam Khomeini Cultural Institute, 1992). Khomeini wrote his will on February 15, 1983, six years before his death. 19. Ebtekar, p. 110.
CHAPTER 5
1. Letter to the author of Charles Dickens's daughter, Hilda Maddock, October 28, 2003. 2. Attiyah, Iraq, p. 108, quoting Sir Percy Cox in a letter to the Viceroy of India on November 23, 1914. I am indebted for this and other subsequent details about the British occupation of Iraq with the magnificent work of Ghassan Attiyah research in both British and Iraqi files at the time. This is a volume that should read all the "statesmen" planning to invade Western Arab countries. 3. Attiyah, The Middle Euphrates: A Topograpkkal Itinerary, New York, American Geographical Society, 1927, pp. 95-96, citing Alois Musil. 4. The Sphere, London, May 15, 1915. 5. Attiyah, The Middle Euphrates: A Topographical Itinerary, New York, 1927, p. 104, citing National Archives (NA), F0371/2775/187454. 6. Ibid., P. 105, quoted the BH CAB 21/60. 7. Ibid., P. 130, citing a memorandum by the British Admiralty, ^ March 1915. 8. Ibid., P. 130n, quoting Herbert Henry Asquith, Loyalties, andre-flections Memories, 1852-1927, vol. II, London, 1928, p. 69. 9. Ibid. p. 165, citing AN FO371/3387/142404 (Cox). 10. Ibid. p. 168, citing AN f0371/4148/13298. 11. Ibid. p. 166, citing aE. Burgogne, Gertrude Bell, from Her Personal Papen, 1914-1926, London, 1961, pp. 78-79. 12. Hansa House of Commons, vol. 127, et al. 662-664, 25 March 1920. 13. Attiyah, p. 203. 14. Ibid., P. 211, citing AN FO371/5227/E6509. 15. Ibid., P. 230. 16. Ibid., P. 249, citing a document from the Iraqi Interior Ministry, Nasiriyah, April and May 1919. 17. John Darwin, Britain, Egypt and the Middle East: Imperial Policy in the After-math of War, 1918-1922, New York, St Matin's Press, 1981, quoted in Fromkin, A Peace to End All Peace, p. 453. 18. Attiyah, p. 343. 19. Ibid., P. 362. 20. Quoted in Fromkin, p. 452. 21. The Letters OFT. E. Larvrence, David Garnett (ed.), London, Jonathan Cape, 1938, p. 316, quoted in Fromkin, p. 497. 22. T. E. Laurence [sic], Saudi memorandum for the Reconstruction of East War Cabinet, November 5, 1918, NA CAB 27/36. 23. Clive Semple, ms. Unpublished "Eight Graves to Cairo: Calamity and Cover-up", 2004, p. 4. 24. Letter from Churchill to Trenchard, 29 August 1920. Winston S. Churchill Companion Volume 1917-1922 TV Martin Gilbert, London, Heinemann, 1977, p. 1190. 25. Dudley Saward, 'Bomber'Harris: The AuthorisedBiography, London, Cassell, 1984, p. 31. 26. The Observer, August 8, 1920. 27. Peter Metcalfe letter to author, June 22, 2004. 28. Garnett, Letters to T. E. Lawrence, op. cit, pp. 306-308, letter to The Times, July 22, 1920. 29. The Sunday Times, August 22, 1920. 30. David Omissi 'RAF Officer Who Resigned Rather Than bomb Iraq ", The Observer, February 10, 1991. 31. Quoted in Warner, p. 113. 32. Warner, Iraq and Syria, p. 117. 33. Popovic, ofAfrican Slaves Revolt, p. 124. 34. Poor translation of the news conference by Saddam in Baghdad July 20-21, 1980, contained in The Baghdad Observer, 23 and 24 July 1980, but without comments on the expulsions. 35. Simon Sebag Montefiore, "A disciple of Stalin in the dock ', The International Herald Tribune, July 3, 2004. 36. Cited by David Hirst in "The megalomaniac pitted Against the zealot", The Guardian, September 24, 1980. 37. Marion Woolfson, "Iraq Drive to Eradicate illiteracy" 8 Days, 1 March 1980. 38. Sean Cryan, "Land of the Leftist sheikhs", The Sunday Press, Dublin, March 27, 1977. 38. Author's message to Barnes, May 7, 1980. 40. Hansard, House of Lords, 14 December 1989, et al. 1397-1398. 41. Richard Norton-Taylor, "Sell Arms to Iraq - But keep it quiet: The Scott inquiry Exposing a system is corrupted by secrecy ', The Guardian, September 13, 1993. Memorandum cited in this article. 42. Chronicle Norton-Taylor in The Guardian, March 13, 1993. 43. Daphne Parish, Prisonerin Baghdad, London, Chapmans, 1992, pp. 124-131. 44. Letter from Dr. Abdul Amir al Anbir, Iraqi ambassador in London, February 21, 1986, Pat Davis, deputy editor of The Times. 45. Alloway message from Tehran sent to Barnes, 7 August 1980. 46. Author interview with Anis Naccache, Tehran, October 22, 1991. 47. Abul Fazl Ezzati, The Revolutionary Islam and the Islamic Revolution, Tehran, Ministry of Islamic Guidance, 1981, p. 195. 48. The full text of Khomeini's message can be found in the English language version of The Tehran Times, April 8, 1982. 49. Colin Smith, 'Bahai Women Die for Their Faith ", The Observer, June 26, 1983. 50. Colin Smith, "Inside Khomeini's slaughterhouse", The Observer, May 6, 1984. 51. Iran Monitor (English translations of news from the radio and the press Iran Persian) 4julio 1980. The local correspondent of The Times, Tony Alloway, made this valuable summary of the revolutionary activities for more than a year after the overthrow of the Shah. 52. Unitt Amnesty International's statement on human rights in Iran toPolitical Af-fairs Committee of the European Parliament, November 28, 1985. 53. The brochure in English was given by officials of the Ministry of Islamic Guidance in 1979 under the title The People and the Revolutionary Courts. The author has a copy. 54. Khomeini, Last Message. 55. Human Rights Watch, Tears, Blood and Cries: Human Rights in Afghanistan 1979-1984, Helsinki Report, December 1984, pp. 5, 9 and 35. 56. This statement, Yazdi's comments and the declaration of the United States on Saddam's intentions are from Vols. 10 and 12 of the documentation from the U.S. embassy in Tehran issued. 57. Interview with Frank Giles, The Sunday Times, April 16, 1978. 58. The Iraqi-Iranian Dispute: Facts versus Allegations, Baghdad, Iraqi Foreign Affairs Ministry, 1981. 59. You can find an unconvincing explanation of the decision by Iraq in a speech before the General Assembly of the United Nations Prime Minister Tariq Aziz of September 25, 1987. 60. Interview with Fatima Daud Muffak, Baghdad, July 30, 2004.
All of which can be found in government records in London, no need to spend any substantial amount of time in ME, nor actually speak with any Arab intellectuals. All cited sources are in English.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: He's an amazing writer, not just analysis like the other pundits, but historical background, nitty gritty details from being in the thick of the action, conflicting emotions of the players and personal anecdotes... very readable like literature.
Again, totally agree citizen. Fisk is a great ans fair journalist/writer. He's also very familiar with the region, he's written a mamoth of a book on the middle east. I believe he lived there for many years (possibly still does), I think mainly in Lebanon. Another good one is Frank Gardner of the BBC, the one who lost his leg in a blast in Saudi Arabia.
I have the book and got it signed by him when he gave a lecture at Saqiat El Sawy a couple of years ago. I told him to take care of himself. He's such a risk taker. LIves in Beirut speaks fluent Arabic.
Thanks nice, if he speaks fluent Arabic, why doesn't he cite Arab sources instead of purely English sources?
Mind you luckily for me, that book you listed was the only book of his I could find that has a bibliography. Most of his books don't have any sources.
He's a crackpot, like all the others.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Actually I had forgotten this:
The term fisking is blogosphere slang describing a point-by-point criticism that highlights perceived errors, or disputes the analysis in a statement, article, or essay.[1]
Eric S. Raymond, in the Jargon File, defined the term as:
A point-by-point refutation of a blog entry or (especially) news story. A really stylish fisking is witty, logical, sarcastic and ruthlessly factual; flaming or handwaving is considered poor form.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking
this has been discussed before:
Fisk is as creative and genuine as a Chinese Iphone. Usually “glorified” journalists become more reputable with age. This dude is obviously not holding true to that pattern. It's not that I don't like Fisk, I do, but it seems like he mailed this one in. Perhaps he should stick to his specialty, Lebanon, because this piece echoes laymen of Cairo, you know the ones who proclaim Egypt as the richest nation on earth, failing to realize that Egypt doesn't even have a national car. I'm alluding to Fisk's claim that Algeria is just as rich as Saudia Arabia. Algeria has less than 3 billion oil barrels in reserve, Saudia Arabia has nearly 300 billion. As for natural gas reserves Saudia Arabia has almost double the reserves of Algeria. There's no comparison, as for the rest of his piece, well Hosni Mubarak told us all about “benevolent dictators” several weeks ago, perhaps Fisk should get his feet on the ground because if his info is also from Wiki-Leaks then he's nothing more than a parrot.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Truth is without him you would have had way more Islamist extremist attacks on the soil which would have hurt the economy and its citizens and you on the other hand would have deserted Egypt long time ago.
It is well to remember how Hosni Mubarak came to power: He was vice president when the moderate Anwar Sadat was murdered by Islamic extremists for making peace with Israel.
Hm, I've read history books too. I think everybody knows that.
Without a doubt this was a very traumatic event for him and the whole country and that's why he was such a hardliner and created the Emergency Law for such misfits.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: So what? That's just politics. There are close ties between Cairo and Stuttgart; the university of Stuttgart is one of the two patron universities of the German university in Cairo.
Politics? Just brush it off as usual what doesn't fit into your little box of own opinions.
Truth is Germany honored the 'tyrant's wife' for her dedicated work for women and children.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Do you think that the average German citizen has such a favourable opinion of Suzanne Mubarak, or why did you bring this up at all? I don't really see the point.
The 'average' German has no interest in Egyptian politics, dear Dalia. The typical German comes as a tourist and leaves again after one or two weeks of spending a good time on the beaches.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I am wondering why you would live in a country where another Saddam Hussein (that's with who you basically compare Mubarak to, isn't that so)
Of course like the rest of the ladies here you have to jump on the bandwagon and have to denounce Mubarak as a 'tyrant'.
Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. It would be nice if you could stop making things up, drop the aggressive attitude and the ad hominem attacks and have a respectful exchange of thoughts and opinions instead. I don't understand all the bitching and the overly negative attitude.
This 'tyrant' as you call him let you live good in his country. You lived good in Egypt BECAUSE of Mubarak. Without Mubarak there wouldn't be any GUC. He gave you a job at the GUC, a job which could have been easily given to an Egyptian with the same qualifications. See it like that - you took a qualified Egyptian the job away. And yet you still complain about Mubarak.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Yes a change of mentality comes with hope for the future, no one is saying that a change of mentality is not needed, they have had 30 years of this and I'm sure it took East Germans a bit of time to realize they were free to change too.
And we are still waiting for an answer to the question why it was ok for the East Germans to fight for democracy and freedom, but not for the Egyptians. Seems a bit hypocritical to me that one is acceptable, but the other is not. [/QB][/QUOTE]
You have no idea about East Germans. My bet is you never traveled to the former East part of the country neither you had a more deeper conversation with the people from there.
We didn't have what you would consider 'bad' in East Germany. We didn't starve (we always had enough different food and were able to afford meat any time of the day etc. unless many Egyptians), we had a great educational system, very qualified workers next to academics, affordable housing for everyone and believe it or not - but we had fun too. The problem was speaking against the government would threw people in jail and traveling wasn't easy for us. Some similarities to Egypt there you see.
BUT - we didn't start the revolution. East Germany was not the first country to revolt against its regime. It started in other countries of the Eastern Bloc. Sooner or later the whole communist system in this area came crashing down.
My mom went on vacation to Budapest in summer of 1989 to meet my West-German grandma and grandma asked if daughter wants to come back with her to West Germany. My mom only said "Not without my daughter (me)".
It took 11 months to unite Germany after the wall came down. It was an extreme change for the East Germans and quite a few years of uncertainty and fears, too many people lost their jobs. But we were not alone because of West Germany which invested a lot in our area. Unfortunately some West Germans did not understand the process and why they should help with paying to build up the former East part.
Egypt doesn't have this kind of 'helper'. Furthermore the whole region which includes Egypt is known for Islamist extremist attacks. With Egypt's downfall the Gaza issue and the relations with Israel are in question.
Also the unrest in forms of strikes continues even after the president is ousted. At one point Egyptians need to quiet it down and see the real situation for what it is. There is no quick fix and everyone can live happily ever after. Their economy just twirled right down the gutter after #Jan25. They will have to work for a better future and show patience. One step at a time.
Speaking about Egypt - why striving for freedom when it means you can't put anymore food on the table? Freedom won't fill your hungry stomach.
Under Mubarak Egypt had stability. Now this stability which came with a thrieving economy is gone, gone, gone...
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: this country IS a RICH country
Not rich enough for 80 million people; in around 10 or 15 years it will be approximately 90 million Egyptians.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I believe this country could generate enough solar power for the whole planet given it's extensive desert area under almost permanent sunshine. (And of course, that requires investment.)
Also, a friend's Egyptian husband many years ago identified a strain of wheat that would grow in more arrid/desert regions but because of government corruption, it never became available. Maybe now, it can be.
Egyptians produce good scientific research in their PhDs and ongoing studies, but it sits dusty on shelves. Because of the corruption, their ideas were not taken and exploited.
One of my Egyptian friends, her niece and husband invested their life savings in a lovely cafe/restaurant up in the Delta, but because of the corruption of the Governor of the area demanding bribes way over and above the legitimate licencing fees, they were forced to close within a month.
This country is RICH in the resources of solar energy, creativity and ingenuity and hardwork.
Egyptians are hard workers - despite their reputation to the contrary - many of the Egyptian men I see around me work long hard days and then go to classes in the evening to try to improve themselves with English lessons or 'Soft skills' lessons. Cairene women hold down management and professional posts, are sometimes the main earner in the home, and juggle homecare responsibilities. (I think they are in a sort of 'Shirley Conran Super Woman' phase which we went through in the 70s and 80s in the UK).
Egyptians just need the opportunity and encouragement to flourish in a much less corrupt environment.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
tigerweed:
The assassination squad was led by Lieutenant Khalid Islambouli after a fatwā approving the assassination had been obtained from Omar Abdel-Rahman. Islambouli was tried, found guilty, sentenced to death, and executed in April 1982.
It was an inside job. Done by the military and could have been prevented.
I believe there is actual photos of the assisination in Haykal, Muhammad Hasanayn (1982). Autumn of Fury: The Assassination of Sadat. Wm Collins & Sons & Co. ISBN 0394531361.
I've read the book and there's plenty of proof to show several different groups within the military were planning an assisination. The guys who actually did it just managed to organize it first.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I believe this country could generate enough solar power for the whole planet given it's extensive desert area under almost permanent sunshine. (And of course, that requires investment.)
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Also, a friend's Egyptian husband many years ago identified a strain of wheat that would grow in more arrid/desert regions but because of government corruption, it never became available. Maybe now, it can be.
Honestly I did not hear about it before.
But I do know that the Egyptian government carried out various projects to cultivate deserts.
"... The government is keen to encourage people to move to the desert by pressing ahead with an estimated $70 billion plan to reclaim 3.4 million acres of desert over the next 10 years. Among the incentives are cheap desert land to college graduates.With only five percent of the country habitable, almost all of Egypt’s 74 million people live along the Nile River and the Mediterranean Sea.... Cairo’s crowded living conditions will likely get worse as Egypt’s population is expected to double by 2050... "
What a prognosis for the future population!!! Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
But I do know that the Egyptian government carried out various projects to cultivate desert areas.
"The government is keen to encourage people to move to the desert by pressing ahead with an estimated $70 billion plan to reclaim 3.4 million acres of desert over the next 10 years. Among the incentives are cheap desert land to college graduates.With only five percent of the country habitable, almost all of Egypt’s 74 million people live along the Nile River and the Mediterranean Sea. Cairo’s crowded living conditions will likely get worse as Egypt’s population is expected to double by 2050. "
And the same type of projects have been done in KSA and other Gulf Arab nations. those nations have billions of spare dollars, yet de-salinization requires billions dollars more per year.
I am sure most of Europe had a very dark and deary outlook for Germany in 1946, yet Germany managed to rise above those expectations.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
CBS reporter Lara Logan assaulted in Egypt: CBS News
(Reuters) - "CBS correspondent Lara Logan was beaten and sexually assaulted by a mob while covering the jubilation in Cairo's Tahrir Square on the day Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak stepped down, the U.S. broadcasting network said Tuesday.
Logan, a 39-year-old South Africa native and longtime war correspondent, has since flown back to the United States and is recovering in hospital. She was one of dozens of journalists attacked during the three weeks of protests throughout Egypt..."
Poor woman. And there is no end in sight for journalists as more countries in the region currently experience major protests against their own governments.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
Thanks Laura....my feelings exactly
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Pro Mubarak Supporter
Is this the new curse word here on ES? So anyone who shares not your opinion is getting this label from you???
So much about freedom of speech, Laura.
Hypocrite.
Let me pass you the bucket.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
Thanks Laura....my feelings exactly
yep, mine too. and what sono's super spam of Robert Fisk books has to do with anything I don't know!
A meeting was held last night in Luxor with business owners, tour guides, etc. An event is planned for Feb 26th in which CNN BBCW and many more I can't remember (still tired)from all over the world will be filming as an event for 'Egypt Moving Forward', sponsors from hotels and businesses here in Luxor.
These guys are enthusiastic about the future and a new free Egypt and are putting in the time and effort, and many their money, to promote Egypt to the world again.
People need to stop talking about Mubarak. He's gone, he's not coming back. After all it wasn't him alone to rule this country.
It's time to look forward, organize elections, stop the protests and bring the economy back on its feet.
But I do sense that even in 50 years when things don't go right in Egypt people will still blame Mubarak for everything. Oh boy.... he's doooooooomed. He won't go to paradise. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
I agree. In fact, I think it would be more palatable if their income did rely on it, but when they support the above on the basis that it's nice and comfy for them when they come on holiday, it just stinks.
TL, are you sure you are German? Are you sure you aren't English, from around the colonial period? You still didn't answer the question. You explained how the Berlin wall fell but still not why exactly you feel that as a German you are entitled to the rights you're so happy to deny the Egytians.
And what does the attack on the CBS news reporter have to do with anything? Is that supposed to be a valid argument that Egyptians in general don't deserve basic human rights? You think the whole country, including the women and soldiers who saved the reporter, should be punished for it?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Pro Mubarak Supporter
Is this the new curse word here on ES? So anyone who shares not your opinion is getting this label from you???
So much about freedom of speech, Laura.
Hypocrite.
Let me pass you the bucket.
Your freedom of speech is not halted and nor is anyone elses who may disagree. No one is saying you cant think the way you are, or say it, they are just disagreeing with it and having their opinion too.
You have every right to say whatever you want and others have every right to either agree or disagree with it. That is not hypocritical, that is freedom of speech.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Pro Mubarak Supporter
Is this the new curse word here on ES? So anyone who shares not your opinion is getting this label from you???
So much about freedom of speech, Laura.
Hypocrite.
Let me pass you the bucket.
Hey, "if the shoe fits"...and from all you have posted it does..let me throw it at you! Ah! That felt good!
Seriously!
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
As posted on a FB group,Mubarak went into coma when he realized most of his $70 billion assets were frozen.
...and not because of any illness.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
TL, why don't you start a whip round? Maybe you can revive him.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: As posted on a FB group,Mubarak went into coma when he realized most of his $70 billion assets were frozen.
...and not because of any illness.
It will be interesting to see what, if any, of that money ever returns to Egypt. Also the other funds stolen by his family members and cronies.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Politics? Just brush it off as usual what doesn't fit into your little box of own opinions.
Of course it's politics. Or are you suggesting the German people care so much about Suzanne Mubarak that they are interested in officially honouring her? Is the fact that she was honoured by some insitution an indicator of the fact that the German people supposedly love and respect her and her husband?
Of course not. And actually, you are confirming this yourself with the following statement:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: The 'average' German has no interest in Egyptian politics, dear Dalia.
Exactly. So you are confirming my statement that the average German has no interest in Suzanne Mubarak. Why did you bring her up in the first place then?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: This 'tyrant' as you call him
I already said it earlier – I have not called him a tyrant anywhere. Stop lying.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: He gave you a job at the GUC, a job which could have been easily given to an Egyptian with the same qualifications. See it like that - you took a qualified Egyptian the job away.
You are making things up about people as you go along just so you can find a reason to nag and attack.
Where and what I work is none of your business. But FYI – there are no Egyptians with the same qualification who would be able to do exactly what I do. So your assumption that I took an Egyptian's job away is wrong.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And yet you still complain about Mubarak.
I dare you to find a post of mine where I've "complained about Mubarak". And while you're at it, please also dig out the ones where I've called him a tyrant. If you can't find any, kindly stick to what has actually been said. Thank you.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
CBS reporter Lara Logan assaulted in Egypt: CBS News
I saw this lady on Tahrir on Friday. Didn't know she was British.
It is terrible that she was attacked. But in general many women reported that there has been a surprising absence of sexual harassment during the demonstrations, and I can only confirm this. I spent hours on Tahrir on Thursday and Friday, even got stuck in the crowd badly at some point, but I didn't get harassed even once. Thought that was quite remarkable.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
I agree as well. I'm fed up with Tigerlilly's overly agressive posts stating her personal opinion as if it was representative of an entire nation... then attacking anyone who doesn't agree with her views.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Politics? Just brush it off as usual what doesn't fit into your little box of own opinions.
Of course it's politics. Or are you suggesting the German people care so much about Suzanne Mubarak that they are interested in officially honouring her? Is the fact that she was honoured by some insitution an indicator of the fact that the German people supposedly love and respect her and her husband?
Of course not. And actually, you are confirming this yourself with the following statement:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: The 'average' German has no interest in Egyptian politics, dear Dalia.
Exactly. So you are confirming my statement that the average German has no interest in Suzanne Mubarak. Why did you bring her up in the first place then?
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: This 'tyrant' as you call him
I already said it earlier – I have not called him a tyrant anywhere. Stop lying.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: He gave you a job at the GUC, a job which could have been easily given to an Egyptian with the same qualifications. See it like that - you took a qualified Egyptian the job away.
You are making things up about people as you go along just so you can find a reason to nag and attack.
Where and what I work is none of your business. But FYI – there are no Egyptians with the same qualification who would be able to do exactly what I do. So your assumption that I took an Egyptian's job away is wrong.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And yet you still complain about Mubarak.
I dare you to find a post of mine where I've "complained about Mubarak". And while you're at it, please also dig out the ones where I've called him a tyrant. If you can't find any, kindly stick to what has actually been said. Thank you.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
CBS reporter Lara Logan assaulted in Egypt: CBS News
I saw this lady on Tahrir on Friday. Didn't know she was British.
It is terrible that she was attacked. But in general many women reported that there has been a surprising absence of sexual harassment during the demonstrations, and I can only confirm this. I spent hours on Tahrir on Thursday and Friday, even got stuck in the crowd badly at some point, but I didn't get harassed even once. Thought that was quite remarkable.
CBS is American I think.
I can also confirm an absence of sexual harassment here in Luxor, in fact everyone I have encountered has been wonderful, friendly and helpful.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
I wonder why CBS is now reporting something as awful as this, what..4 -5 days later?
@Ayisha - yes it'a an american tv station.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: CBS is American I think.
Ooops, my bad. Yes, it is.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: TL, why don't you start a whip round? Maybe you can revive him.
ROFL Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
And another ruddy thing... This business with St Suzanne... You know, it's very commendable that she got FGM banned, but how come it took her nigh on two decades to realise she gave a rat's a$$?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: After all it wasn't him alone to rule this country.
He was the man at the top....he was in charge.....THE BUCK STOPS AT HIS DOOR.......He knew what was going on in his country.......He should now be held responsible for the corruption, torture,and poverty that went on under his watch
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: And another ruddy thing... This business with St Suzanne... You know, it's very commendable that she got FGM banned, but how come it took her nigh on two decades to realise she gave a rat's a$$?
*Like*
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: After all it wasn't him alone to rule this country.
He was the man at the top....he was in charge.....THE BUCK STOPS AT HIS DOOR.......He knew what was going on in his country.......He should now be held responsible for the corruption, torture,and poverty that went on under his watch
To sum it up,he should be trialed for crimes against humanity.
Posted by longusername (Member # 1428) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: I'm fed up with Tigerlilly's overly agressive posts..
For what it's worth, I don't think Tigerlily was being aggressive. Her posts are some of the most observant and well-informed, and it's interesting to see contrary opinions expressed. She may be a tad defensive when she's so outnumbered, but that's understandable. She's still entitled to state her case and though I may disagree with her I still appreciate her posts.
Best Wishes, LUN
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some really bizarre posts on this thread! Sounds like they could have been written by a Pro Mubarak Supporter who now sees their entire entire financial future ruined now that corruption is being reined in. Justify corruption and illegal detention and torturing and murdering people any way you can. Sickening really.
Thanks Laura....my feelings exactly
yep, mine too.
Amen, count me in girls! Looks like it's time for me to hybernate again.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Apparently France and Germany have also been asked to freeze ex minister's assets. Not Mubarak's though, by the sound of it.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
(taken from my facebook feed)
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by longusername:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: I'm fed up with Tigerlilly's overly agressive posts..
For what it's worth, I don't think Tigerlily was being aggressive. Her posts are some of the most observant and well-informed, and it's interesting to see contrary opinions expressed. She may be a tad defensive when she's so outnumbered, but that's understandable. She's still entitled to state her case and though I may disagree with her I still appreciate her posts.
Best Wishes, LUN
She's informed via western media, with little info from the arab world.
There is tons of holes in her "reporting" and its repeatative at best.
Here's what I gathered about Lara Logan:
Lara Logan Detained By Egyptian Police Lara Logan
CBS News chief foreign affairs correspondent Lara Logan has been detained, along with her crew, by Egyptian police, TIME reported Thursday afternoon.
Logan, who has been in Egypt since Monday, had been reporting from Alexandria but was detained outside the Israeli embassy in Cairo, according to TIME.
Wednesday, Logan filed a foreboding report about the Mubarak government "throttling" foreign press.
"The army just shifted dramatically to a much more aggressive posture," she said Wednesday, one day before her detention. "And they have absolutely prevented us from filming anywhere today...And in fact when our crew went out to film beauty shots early this morning, with no idea that the situation was now different, they were confronted by soldiers and plainclothes agents. They were armed, they were intimidated and bullied and in fact marched at gunpoint through the streets all the way back to our hotel."
Logan described it as "a very frightening experience and one that was repeated throughout the day for us."
"Everywhere we went we were approached by people," she said. "We were accused of being more than journalists, very frightening suggestions were being made. Suggestions that really could be very dangerous for us."
Logan said they were being "watched everywhere that we go" and "definitely being prevented from telling the story."
Well it explains the Egyptian Plainclothes cops had been following Lara and her crew the entire week, then finally shut down her journalism activities by sexual assault.
More reason to shut down the police completely and start over.
What a bunch of mofos.
Lara Logan is a South African, not an American. She's an international journalist who works as a freelancer and her entire crew is probably freelancers.
Not exactly much of an American crew, she was assualted for being a foreigner, and a hot one.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: And another ruddy thing... This business with St Suzanne... You know, it's very commendable that she got FGM banned, but how come it took her nigh on two decades to realise she gave a rat's a$$?
I am not starting an argument with you, don't take this as an opportunity to start a hobbit gang fight.
But... its been illegal in a few forms with several laws on the books since Nassar's time.
Problem is the authorities didn't want to enforce it until lately. Mainly because if they didn't it could harm US military aid. Secondly because it could harm Egypt's image for tourism.
Mostly doctors didn't want to do it anymore, and the generation who is now raising teenagers are far more cosmopolitan than the teenagers themselves.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
@ metinoot, there's an old wise saying that goes: 'Don't judge a book by its endnotes" - that's what you copied and pasted from Fisk's book not the bibliography. Go and read the actual book, all 1364 pages of it, and form an opinion of your own.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: @ metinoot, there's an old wise saying that goes: 'Don't judge a book by its endnotes" - that's what you copied and pasted from Fisk's book not the bibliography. Go and read the actual book, all 1364 pages of it, and form an opinion of your own.
Yeah because his books don't cite his comments usually. Because his books amount to nothing more than "travelogues".
I have the book, I copy and pasted the "end notes" which were cited in MLA form, typically known as a bibliography.
Its Robert Fisk, the only nation that will give him awards is UK. No one else takes him seriously because he gets most of his "personal accounts" very wrong. Its British Empire tunnel vision, which appleases old hobbits who still need to feel entitled to look down upon the world's savages.
I haven't read the entire book but when he starts the first chapter out in this manner:
"They combine a mad love of country with an equally mad indifference to life, their own as well as others. They are cunning, unscrupulous, and inspired."--"Stephen Fisher" in Alfred Hitchcock's Foreign Correspondent (1940)
he f*cking quotes hitchcock as his opening to the first chapter of his book. I love hitchcock, but movie script has no place in a book on the Middle East.
A benevolent white dust covered the windscreen, and when the wipers cleared it the desolation took on a hard, unforgiving, dun-coloured uniformity. The track must have looked like this, I thought to myself, when Major-General William Elphinstone led his British army to disaster more than 150 years ago. The Afghans had annihilated one of the greatest armies of the British empire on this very stretch of road, and high above me were villages where old men still remembered the stories of great-grandfathers who had seen the English die in their thousands. The stones of Gandamak, they claim, were made black by the blood of the English dead. The year 1842 marked one of the greatest defeats of British arms. No wonder we preferred to forget the First Afghan War. But Afghans don't forget. "Farangiano," the driver shouted and pointed down into the gorge and grinned at me. "Foreigners." "Angrezi." "English." "Jang." "War." Yes, I got the point. "Irlanda," I replied in Arabic. "Ana min Irlanda." I am from Ireland. Even if he understood me, it was a lie. Educated in Ireland I was, but in my pocket was a small black British passport in which His Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs required in the name of Her Majesty that I should be allowed "to pass freely without let or hindrance" on this perilous journey. A teenage Taliban had looked at my passport at Jalalabad airport two days earlier, a boy soldier of maybe fourteen who held the document upside down, stared at it and clucked his tongue and shook his head in disapproval.
It had grown dark and we were climbing, overtaking trucks and rows of camels, the beasts turning their heads towards our lights in the gloom. We careered past them and I could see the condensation of their breath floating over the road. Their huge feet were picking out the rocks with infinite care and their eyes, when they caught the light, looked like dolls' eyes. Two hours later, we stopped on a stony hillside and, after a few minutes, a pick-up truck came bouncing down the rough shale of the mountain.
An Arab in Afghan clothes came towards the car. I recognised him at once from our last meeting in a ruined village. "I am sorry, Mr. Robert, but I must give you the first search," he said, prowling through my camera bag and newspapers. And so we set off up the track that Osama bin Laden built during his jihad against the Russian army in the early 1980s, a terrifying, slithering, two-hour odyssey along fearful ravines in rain and sleet, the windscreen misting as we climbed the cold mountain. "When you believe in jihad, it is easy," he said, fighting with the steering wheel as stones scuttered from the tyres, tumbling down the precipice into the clouds below. From time to time, lights winked at us from far away in the darkness. "Our brothers are letting us know they see us," he said.
After an hour, two armed Arabs--one with his face covered in a kuffiah scarf, eyes peering at us through spectacles, holding an anti-tank rocket-launcher over his right shoulder--came screaming from behind two rocks. "Stop! Stop!" As the brakes were jammed on, I almost hit my head on the windscreen. "Sorry, sorry," the bespectacled man said, putting down his rocket-launcher. He pulled a metal detector from the pocket of his combat jacket, the red light flicking over my body in another search. The road grew worse as we continued, the jeep skidding backwards towards sheer cliffs, the headlights playing across the chasms on either side. "Toyota is good for jihad," my driver said. I could only agree, noting that this was one advertising logo the Toyota company would probably forgo.
There was moonlight now and I could see clouds both below us in the ravines and above us, curling round mountaintops, our headlights shining on frozen waterfalls and ice-covered pools. Osama bin Laden knew how to build his wartime roads; many an ammunition truck and tank had ground its way up here during the titanic struggle against the Russian army. Now the man who led those guerrillas--the first Arab fighter in the battle against Moscow--was back again in the mountains he knew. There were more Arab checkpoints, more shrieked orders to halt. One very tall man in combat uniform and wearing shades carefully patted my shoulders, body, legs and looked into my face. Salaam aleikum, I said. Peace be upon you. Every Arab I had ever met replied Aleikum salaam to this greeting. But not this one. There was something cold about this man. Osama bin Laden had invited me to meet him in Afghanistan, but this was a warrior without the minimum courtesy. He was a machine, checking out another machine.
It had not always been this way. Indeed, the first time I met Osama bin Laden, the way could not have been easier. Back in December 1993, I had been covering an Islamic summit in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum when a Saudi journalist friend of mine, Jamal Kashoggi, walked up to me in the lobby of my hotel. Kashoggi, a tall, slightly portly man in a long white dishdash robe, led me by the shoulder outside the hotel. "There is someone I think you should meet," he said. Kashoggi is a sincere believer--woe betide anyone who regards his round spectacles and roguish sense of humour as a sign of spiritual laxity--and I guessed at once to whom he was referring. Kashoggi had visited bin Laden in Afghanistan during his war against the Russian army. "He has never met a Western reporter before," he announced. "This will be interesting." Kashoggi was indulging in a little applied psychology. He wanted to know how bin Laden would respond to an infidel. So did I.
................................................
If he was actually fluent in Arabi he'd have a better account of these situations. He translates only simple phrases. He does not note a guide nor a translator on these episodes, because I don't know if they really have happened. Its just not credible stuff.
Plus with all these first person accounts which sound like all the other first person accounts of supposive "Arabist experts fluent in Arabic" none of these "experts" have a wingman to second their narrative.
Seriously when was the last time you read a book on the region written by an actual Arab who hadn't turned zionist?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Honestly, metinoot, you make very little sense. The book has an excellent bibliography as well as copious endnotes and a long index.
I admire Fisk the hobbit and I'm not going to fight with you, so store up your fighting energy for someone else.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Honestly, metinoot, you make very little sense. The book has an excellent bibliography as well as copious endnotes and a long index.
I admire Fisk the hobbit and I'm not going to fight with you, so store up your fighting energy for someone else.
Actually what I copy and pasted the "bibliography" in this post:
I make plenty of sense, Robert Fisk is known for his tunnel vision, his personal accounts that cannot be verified, his absolute limited understanding of Arabic, and his dire need to crank out books that feed the zionist imagery of the Middle East.
Go ahead pay for his books, I downloaded them via torrent. WHy pay for crap?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
LOL...
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: LOL...
What could I expect from a lass who spent her career working for USAid and considers it "food stamps" for Egyptians yet doesn't apply the same insult to Israelis who also use USAid "food stamps".
It was odd but predictable when the two of you did a 180 degree turn on the revolution, but didn't correct your "food stamps" designation error.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
ROFL...
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Hmmm It looks like there is a little Cat and Mouse game going on at the moment in the Suez Canal area with Israeli and Iranian Warships.. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: And another ruddy thing... This business with St Suzanne... You know, it's very commendable that she got FGM banned, but how come it took her nigh on two decades to realise she gave a rat's a$$?
I am not starting an argument with you, don't take this as an opportunity to start a hobbit gang fight.
But... its been illegal in a few forms with several laws on the books since Nassar's time.
Problem is the authorities didn't want to enforce it until lately. Mainly because if they didn't it could harm US military aid. Secondly because it could harm Egypt's image for tourism.
Mostly doctors didn't want to do it anymore, and the generation who is now raising teenagers are far more cosmopolitan than the teenagers themselves.
Exactly. I'm not arguing with you either. I was referring to a previous post where the ending of FGM seemed to be singularly attributed to the good work of Mrs M. Call me cynical, but I think the reasons you've cited had more to do with it, particularly international condemnation and the possible halting of US aid.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: LOL...
My favourie part was 'I make plenty of sense'. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Just in from The Armed Forces on my vodafone (first one from them on there, others have been on my Etisalat)
المجلس الأعلي للقوات المسلحة: نهيب بالمواطنين تهيئة المناخ المناسب لإدارة شئون البلاد تمهيدا لتسليمها إلي السلطة المدنية المنتخبة من الشعب
Which google translate says means:
Supreme Council of the armed forces: We call on citizens to create the right climate to manage the affairs of the country in preparation for handing over power to elected civilian people
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: LOL...
My favourie part was 'I make plenty of sense'.
My favourite part is "the two of you did a 180 degree turn..." does that make a 360 degree turn for the both of me?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Just in from The Armed Forces on my vodafone (first one from them on there, others have been on my Etisalat)
المجلس الأعلي للقوات المسلحة: نهيب بالمواطنين تهيئة المناخ المناسب لإدارة شئون البلاد تمهيدا لتسليمها إلي السلطة المدنية المنتخبة من الشعب
Which google translate says means:
Supreme Council of the armed forces: We call on citizens to create the right climate to manage the affairs of the country in preparation for handing over power to elected civilian people
Do they get free evening and weekend texts or something? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
sono, stop spamming with crap. You haven't read the damn book and citizen has read the book, logic assumes the one that has read the book knows more about it and it's writer than the one spouting crap about it that hasn't read it.
signed mamma hobbit.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: LOL...
My favourie part was 'I make plenty of sense'.
My favourite part is "the two of you did a 180 degree turn..." does that make a 360 degree turn for the both of me?
Sono's ambition to be a zionist failed, she confused them too much with the tangents so now she's having a tantrum. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
13 new political parties to be formed Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ooh, they need another one. Thirteen gives me the eebie jeebies...
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Just a question. My pretend hubby has told me that he has given his name and address(couldnt understand who to!) and expects for the authorities to give him money soon like our dole....and that he had a letter about his loan which has been suspended for at least 3 months which is good news as not many tourists in Luxor and wondered how he was going to pay that....sounds too good to be true...has anyone else heard things like this?
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
Early in 2008, workers at a government-owned textile factory in the Egyptian mill town of El-Mahalla el-Kubra announced that they were going on strike on the first Sunday in April to protest high food prices and low wages. They caught the attention of a group of tech-savvy young people an hour's drive to the south in the capital city of Cairo, who started a Facebook group to organize protests and strikes on April 6 throughout Egypt in solidarity with the mill workers. To their shock, the page quickly acquired some 70,000 followers.
But what worked so smoothly online proved much more difficult on the street. Police occupied the factory in Mahalla and headed off the strike. The demonstrations there turned violent: Protesters set fire to buildings, and police started shooting, killing at least two people. The solidarity protests around Egypt, meanwhile, fizzled out, in most places blocked by police. The Facebook organizers had never agreed on tactics, whether Egyptians should stay home or fill the streets in protest. People knew they wanted to do something. But no one had a clear idea of what that something was.
The botched April 6 protests, the leaders realized in their aftermath, had been an object lesson in the limits of social networking as a tool of democratic revolution. Facebook could bring together tens of thousands of sympathizers online, but it couldn't organize them once they logged off. It was a useful communication tool to call people to -- well, to what? The April 6 leaders did not know the answer to this question. So they decided to learn from others who did. In the summer of 2009, Mohamed Adel, a 20-year-old blogger and April 6 activist, went to Belgrade, Serbia.....
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Fascinating article, thanks D'oro
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Just a few thoughts... Where is Suliman? Is he a non issue from now on or will he resurface again?
Why didnt the Army include any of the organizers of the Revolution including WOMEN in the group who is working on the new constitution?
Why can't the Army set up a Task Force to hear complaints from the Labor District. I know I have seen where many sectors are now organizing a little and telling workers they should set up a committee of a few people to represent them, and then to begin negotiations. If the Army sent out some more "meaningful and instructional" sms's maybe some of these strikes might be calmed down.
Back to my coffee...
Posted by samaka (Member # 9228) on :
Where is Suliman? He was last seen disappearing off the horizon with Exiiled.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by samaka: Where is Suliman? He was last seen disappearing off the horizon with Exiiled.
That is NOT good news Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: And another ruddy thing... This business with St Suzanne... You know, it's very commendable that she got FGM banned, but how come it took her nigh on two decades to realise she gave a rat's a$$?
Suzanne Mubarak was often invoked as a way of attacking her husband. For example, protesters chanted then, "Ya Suzanne, Ya Suzanne libis Mubarak il-fustan" ("Hey Suzanne, Mubarak Put on a Dress.") At the same time, despite attempting to cultivate the persona of a leading woman interested in Egypt's children and literacy, she instead became a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Mubarak regime, from her public friendship with the controversial Culture Minister, Farouk Hosni, to her desire to tear down a hospital near Alexandria's Corniche because she thought it to be an eyesore.
Speculators are hoping to make a fast buck from the crisis in Egypt by buying shares in companies whose stock market values have been hammered by recent events.
One senior financial adviser told Guardian Money that investors who bought after the Tiananmen Square massacre profited hugely from China's economic rise while, more recently, Thailand has been one of the world's best-performing stock markets since last April's Bangkok riots.
Mark Mobius, arguably the most renowned investor in politically risky emerging markets, told Citywire.co.uk that he was "looking to buy" in Egypt when the stock market reopens.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: to her desire to tear down a hospital near Alexandria's Corniche because she thought it to be an eyesore.
Yes and that's why she helped founding the Children's Cancer Hospital in Cairo and planned an advanced cancer hospital in the 6th of October Governorate.
International awards:
The 1989 UNICEF Executive Board conferred upon Mrs. Mubarak its highest honour, the"Maurice Pate Award", in recognition of her dedication and efforts for child survival, protection and development.
Given the highest Award in 1989 by the Rehabilitation International Centre for her outstanding services and support to disabled children.
Given an Honorary Fulbright Award, in recognition of her efforts in the field of child development and education.
The "Together for Peace Foundation" bestowed upon Mrs. Mubarak "The 1992 Enrique de la Mata International Prize for Peace" in recognition of her dedication in promoting child development and alleviating the suffering of victims of natural disasters.
The Rotary Foundation of Rotary International named Mrs. Mubarak in 1992 a "Paul Harris Fellow" in appreciation of the tangible and significant assistance for the furthering of better understanding and friendly relations between peoples of the world.
The " Health for All Gold Medal", the highest distinction awarded by the World Health Organization, was conferred upon Mrs. Mubarak in June 1994 in recognition of her outstanding contributions to improving the quality of life of the women and children of Egypt and her personal commitment to international efforts aimed at integrating health in the development process.
Mrs. Mubarak received the "International Book Committee, International Book Award" in April 1995 in recognition of her outstanding efforts to promote reading in Egypt.
Soka University bestowed upon Mrs. Mubarak its Award of Highest Honour in April 1995.
Westminster College, New Wilmington, honoured Mrs. Mubarak with the degree of Doctor of Laws in recognition of her outstanding achievement for the people of Egypt and in causes valued by the international community.
"The American World Book Association for Publication Award" in recognition of her role in the publication of books and her efforts in supporting the campaign of "Reading for All".
"Award of the Arab Publishers Federation in recognition of her efforts in promoting Arab literature. Cairo, 1996.
"The Avicenne Medal", UNESCO highest award, in recognition of her role in promoting cultural activities in Egypt, 1997."
"Prize of Tolerance", European Academy of Sciences and Arts, Salzburg, 1998.
"The Degree of Professor Counsellor", Shanghai University, April 1999.
Honorary Doctor Degree", Iwa University, Seoul, Korea, for her efforts to promote women's education and social development in Egypt, April 1999.
The "Rotary Award" for her efforts in combating polio, June 1999.
"Honorary Doctor Degree for Humane letters", American University in Cairo, February 2000.
"Honorary Doctor Degree", American University in Spain, in recognition of her distinctive efforts in the social field in Egypt, February 2000.
*********
Also just in October of last year Suzanne Mubarak received the honorary doctorate from Cairo University and yeah I guess she didn't deserve it either - just politics eh???
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Pro Mubarak Supporter
Is this the new curse word here on ES? So anyone who shares not your opinion is getting this label from you???
So much about freedom of speech, Laura.
Hypocrite.
Let me pass you the bucket.
Hey, "if the shoe fits"...and from all you have posted it does..let me throw it at you! Ah! That felt good!
Seriously!
You are around 60????
It shows.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Cairo University? No. I don't see any ulterior motive there at all.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
TL, what happened to make you so completely change your tune? I'm sure something must have.
What made the difference to you?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Hitler was decorated with quite a few awards too and was also nominated for Nobel Peace Prize in 1939
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by samaka: Where is Suliman? He was last seen disappearing off the horizon with Exiiled.
I'm still around but unfortunately so is Sulayman. He's actually at the top end of the Supreme Council of Armed Forces hierarchy, along with Tantawi, Anan and Shafiq. Oh well like their master before them, their days are numbered too. Anyone who supports Mubrak or even makes an argument for Mubarak is morally shot. The same applies to anyone making an argument for Qaddafi, Hafez Al-Asad, Saddam Hussein, Ceaușescu, Milosivic, Bashir (Sudanese Thug) or any other modern dictator that brutalized his own people.
I am however elated been so past week. Still in shock actually, with a kool aid smile when hearing and seeing Egyptian freely talk. It's beautiful to see Egyptian college students freely talking politics with out fear. As far as Egypt losing 20 billion Sterling pounds, so what, what is the price for freedom?
But I love numbers and here are some facts with regards to that lost revenue. More than half of it was stock market loss. I can say with certainty that 98+% of Egyptians won't be affected by Ahmed Ezz, Sawaris and other entrepreneur losses.
They told Naguib Sawiris “you lost 1 billion overnight”, he replied “freedom is priceless.” Also there is an initaive to raise 100 Billion L.E (about 17 Billion US) by the business community, this capital wouldn't be raised if HM was still in power. And not to mention something truly valuable “intellectual capital” by way of western Egyptians who are planning on returning to Egypt. Beautiful things will happen, it will take time, but really how beautiful is it to be on the verge of democracy.
As I said before anyone making any argument for HM is morally corrupt. Damn it.
Power To The People Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Why I changed my mind? Because the country is in a complete chaos now.
In the beginning it was exciting to see what's gonna happen. I followed several political activists on Twitter for over a year so I knew beforehand that #Jan25 activities were planned. I told Mona Eltahawy on that very same morning that nothing is gonna change in the land of Egypt. Oh boy was I wrong!!!! I did not think until Friday, 28 Jan that a completely new chapter for Egypt will start when I saw pics of Tahrir Square in teargas, heard shots, saw fires.
Btw I just got to know that my former boss and his entire team were running for their lives from the studio in Maspero to the German Embassy in Zamalek on that very same day. Scary, scary....
If the majority of Egyptians wanted to have Mubarak removed so be it but IMHO he should have ended his term in September and been given time for all the organizational changes involved in the transition process, changes in the constitution, enough time for parties to form etc.
What happened was chaos and as I said it's not over yet. For the sake of the country the protesters should have agreed to stick with Mubarak for a merely six months and not try to remove everyone in higher positions. Now still protests are staged for higher wages and salaries all over Egypt and I just heard that another protest in Tahrir Square is planned for tomorrow.
Mubarak made good things happen for his country, yeah he had his faults, he was disliked by many, but others spoke highly of him and not only because they feared repercussions, too many lived fat because of him. And you didn't see many pro-Mubarak supporters on the streets during the protests because they were too busy taking care of their assets.
About El Baradei: El Baradei had his chance and yet he missed it again. Where is he?????? I just wished that the #Jan25 movement had a leader, a leader who even now realizes enough with the protesting for the time being, lets bring stability back.
This revolution and the aftermath hit the poor so hard it's undeniable. They don't know what's gonna happen to them. They don't have options unlike Egyptians which are financially better off.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: to her desire to tear down a hospital near Alexandria's Corniche because she thought it to be an eyesore.
Yes and that's why she helped founding the Children's Cancer Hospital in Cairo and planned an advanced cancer hospital in the 6th of October Governorate.
Yes what? In your logic, it's ok for her to want to get rid of a hospital because she feels it's an eyesore in one city as long as she "helps fund" another hospital hundreds of miles away?
How did she "help fund" a hospital, exactly? With her own money? By not stealing as much of that year?
I'm sorry you are so gullible as to believe because someone makes her an honorary something or gives her an award that it is a reflection upon her moral character and proves what a good person she is. Sorry, that's just PR. Most of us who work out there in the real world can spot it a mile off.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: to her desire to tear down a hospital near Alexandria's Corniche because she thought it to be an eyesore.
Yes and that's why she helped founding the Children's Cancer Hospital in Cairo and planned an advanced cancer hospital in the 6th of October Governorate.
Yes what? In your logic, it's ok for her to want to get rid of a hospital because she feels it's an eyesore in one city as long as she "helps fund" another hospital hundreds of miles away?
How did she "help fund" a hospital, exactly? With her own money? By not stealing as much of that year?
I'm sorry you are so gullible as to believe because someone makes her an honorary something or gives her an award that it is a reflection upon her moral character and proves what a good person she is. Sorry, that's just PR. Most of us who work out there in the real world can spot it a mile off.
You are just trying again to discredit Suzanne Mubarak's achievements. Perhaps its jealousy on your side.
And yes she was working too, constantly.
She did not sit on her half Egyptian arse all day to enjoy her wealth provided by her husband.
Maybe she should have - then you would have a reason to hate her.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: For the sake of the country the protesters should have agreed to stick with Mubarak for a merely six months and not try to remove everyone in higher positions.
I completely disagree. I think the pro democracy movement HAD to insist on this. There really was no choice. It was what you could call a matter of life and death.
He was still promising them safe passage and assuring there would be no arrests, and even as those words were leaving his lips, and beyond, people WERE still being arrested - foreign media too - how stupid was that? Why would his last months have been any different to the previous 30 years? How credible is a promise when it's already broken at the moment it's uttered? Even NOW there are still protestors who haven't been accounted for, their families trawling around the morgues trying to find missing relatives.
I don't understand this logic at all. If you catch an armed robber in your house do you offer to employ him as a security guard and invite him to stay?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
It hasn't even been a week yet - a period of chaos is natural and normal in any major change like this. It will settle.
There's so much GOOD stuff happening out there and from that the future will arise. Egyptians have to learn to trust each other. I do not understand when in history Egyptians learnt to tell themselves and each other that they are 'very bad people' when they quite simply are not.
Last Thursday night when Mubarak made the step down speech that wasn't, more than a few people here in Egypt went to bed convinced we would wake up to a massacre and hell on Earth. No way could he have stayed. And now it seems he is very very ill and probably was at the time, had he died in office this week or next, what would the situation be with no chance of opposition parties being created by that time?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I came across this comment...
Mubarak’s greatest crime against his people. He had no vision, no high aspiration, no will for great educational attainment. He just had this wildly exaggerated sense of Egypt’s greatness based on the past. That is why I feel sorry for those Egyptians now clamoring to get back money they claim the Mubaraks stole. That is surely a crime, if true, but Mubarak is guilty of a much bigger, more profound, theft: all the wealth Egypt did not generate these past 30 years because of the poverty of his vision and the incompetence of his cronies.
Very well said Pink cherry
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: You are just trying again to discredit Suzanne Mubarak's achievements. Perhaps its jealousy on your side.
And yes she was working too, constantly.
She did not sit on her half Egyptian arse all day to enjoy her wealth provided by her husband.
Maybe she should have - then you would have a reason to hate her. [/QB]
Oh yes, me and so many other professional journalists must be jealous of Suzanne Mubarak. Really, you're not capable of holding an adult conversation without reverting back to child-like insults.
Maybe it's time you got out of the house a bit more.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I came across this comment...
Mubarak’s greatest crime against his people. He had no vision, no high aspiration, no will for great educational attainment. He just had this wildly exaggerated sense of Egypt’s greatness based on the past. That is why I feel sorry for those Egyptians now clamoring to get back money they claim the Mubaraks stole. That is surely a crime, if true, but Mubarak is guilty of a much bigger, more profound, theft: all the wealth Egypt did not generate these past 30 years because of the poverty of his vision and the incompetence of his cronies.
That is putting it mildly. Seriously, what else was expected of a man who ran Egypt like it was his own private company. He's not special, he's identical to every other despot.
There was a leaked cable (wikileaks) of a “frustrated US Ambassador to Egypt”, who wrote “Mubarak believes that God, military and NDP will sort out who will lead his country after his death”
Translation Gamal Mubarak or Sulayman or some other NDP member working in self interest of the regime.
Just take a second and decipher that. That is a seriously sick mentality, as if Egypt were some company and leaving it to the board to sort it all out. As if the right of the people to freely choose their own leader was not even a possibility. That was his mindset, he never ever imagined his people to be free.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Here's a link to the above wikileak, it's all over the net:
"U.S. officials wrote in a 2009 cable. “Indeed, he seems to be trusting to God and the ubiquitous military and civilian security services to ensure an orderly transition.”
someone posted this on FB - I put it in google translate - I think it's trying to prove that the Gonim guy is an American spy / Freemason based on him wearing rubber wrist bands and having a lion rampant on his polo shirt and by chance so does the freemason coat of arms (as do zillions of coats of arms!)
They're hilarious aren't they? I think my favourite wasn't to do with the revolution, but the shark attacks, where someone decided that the sharks had been specially trained to kill and planted by the Israelis.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Conspiracy theories are us:
someone posted this on FB - I put it in google translate - I think it's trying to prove that the Gonim guy is an American spy / Freemason based on him wearing rubber wrist bands and having a lion rampant on his polo shirt and by chance so does the freemason coat of arms (as do zillions of coats of arms!)
Actually it is disturbing trend, there appears to be attempts to smear or discredit Wael Ghonim. He is a very good and decent man, and the 100 L.E billion that I mentioned earlier was actually spearheaded by him. He actually raised the first billion. He has enemies that's for sure.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
And the theory Israel shut down the internet not the Egyptian government
I suppose they're all lizards really Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Really? So, David Icke was right all along?
Who would have thunk it? Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Apparently 4 of the 8 stolen statues have been returned:
These have come out from the Egypt Tomorrow group on facebook which has a very small following right now! I don't know who specifically is behind this group.
لا توقع على بياض-1
ظهرت في الآونة الأخيرة دعوات لترشيح هذا أو ذاك لأن يتحدث بإسمي وإسمك أو أن يترشح الى كذا وكذا ... ومنها مثلا صوت لوائل غنيم ليكون متحدثاً بإسمك ... فهل تعرفه أو تعرف شيئاً عن أفكاره ومعتقداته؟ كانت مصيبتنا الكبرى دائما وأبدا هي أننا نوقع على بياض للحاكم ولغيره . فإذا صودر حق من جقوقك فلن تستطيع إسترداده بسهولة فلا تو...قع على بياض . مستقبل البلد يحتاج الى كفاءات لا الى ثوار.
Google Translate - I'll just c/p what it writes - there's more coming now.
Do not sign a blank -1
Appeared in the recent calls for the nomination, because this or that speaks in my name and name or to run to such and such ... Such as the voice of Wael Ghneim to be speaking your name ... Do you know or know anything about his ideas and beliefs? Our loss was great and always is that we never sign a blank check for the governor and others. If confiscated right Jqoukk will not be able to recover it easily Tu ... Qa blank. The country's future needs to be qualified not only to the rebels.
لا توقع على بياض - 2: ان التركيز على أن شباب التحرير أو الفيسبوك هم أصحاب الثورة هو وهم لأن الثورة ملك لكل الذين انتفضوا في وجه الظلم عبر سنوات وصولا بمحطة التحرير. هناك الناشطة جيجي ابراهيم كانت ضيفة المحطات الأجنبية . هي لا تجيد السياسة بقدر إجادتها للإنجليزية وتفتقد الوعي السياسي والرؤية السياسية ويكفيك أن تتصفح صفحتها على الفيس بو...ك لتعرف ما هي إهتمامات الست جيجي . فهل تمثل هذه السيدة شباب مصر أو مستقبل مصر؟
Do not sign blank - 2: The focus on the youth of editing or facebook are the owners of the revolution is an illusion because the Revolution belongs to all who rebelled in the face of injustice over the years leading editing station. There are active Gigi Ibrahim was the guest of foreign stations. Is not good policy as far as mastery of English and lack of political awareness and political vision and that is sufficient for browsing the front page on Facebook bu ... as to know what are the concerns of the six Gigi. Does this woman represent Egypt's youth or the future of Egypt?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
This is a very happy time for Egypt. And despite the revolution, unsubstantiated portrayal of “chaos” are just that unsubstantiated, and mostly the opinion of a lone ES member. Some European union nations have declared travel to the Red Sea as safe. Tourist sites throughout Cairo and all of Egypt are re-opening.
Students have returned to school or are returning, and the thing is during parts of the revolution school was out, conveniently it's not as if they can't make those days up as they have very long summer breaks.
Re getting unemployment benefit - a friend just messaged me and told me that a friend of hers husband in one of the Delta governates was sent a letter to the family home saying people with no work are to register and will get 500LE a month!!!!
Wonder if it's a local or national initiative? Will they breed a benefits culture - that's more than a lot of people get for a hard month's work!
All the British dole scroungers will move here Eat your heart out Daily Mail!!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
All I can say to that is, such a shame the money made from that isn't coming into Egypt!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Re getting unemployment benefit - a friend just messaged me and told me that a friend of hers husband in one of the Delta governates was sent a letter to the family home saying people with no work are to register and will get 500LE a month!!!!
Wonder if it's a local or national initiative? Will they breed a benefits culture - that's more than a lot of people get for a hard month's work!
All the British dole scroungers will move here Eat your heart out Daily Mail!!
haha... really... wow! that is very exciting, we need to verify this though. I bet it's coming from Hosni's stash There I was thinking Glassflower was blabbering Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
If it is true, then surely it can only be for a short time maybe 6 months or a year because that's more than half the country earn every month.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: All the British dole scroungers will move here Eat your heart out Daily Mail!!
Will they take Jeremy Kyle with them too? (Please say yes...)
I wonder how he'd go down in Egypt... Hmmm...
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: If it is true, then surely it can only be for a short time maybe 6 months or a year because that's more than half the country earn every month.
That sounds realistic and intelligent.
Sorry to bring this up in this thread but I don't feel inclined to start a new one, but I was just thinking about this. The most valuable asset in the world is a human being. And with the right leadership, Egypt's population despite growing can be utilized in a very effective way.
Industrialization. The same way the Chinese succeed, so can Egypt. It will however take responsible leadership. That is another major failure of HM, he failed to utilize one of Egypt's greatest strengths, man power!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Mmmm... Maybe not quite like China...
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Mmmm... Maybe not quite like China...
Why not? Lack of natural resources? There is also the service sector, I can understand an Egyptian with broken english, but an INDIAN ..omg.. there's like millions of them here and I have to pay close attention to what they say.. bali..bali.bali. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Because they got so industrialised basically by slave labour. The human rights abuses going on in China now... I don't think you could get any worse.
They do have a good economy, but I don't think it would be the way to go.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
So somewhere in the middle, and perhaps you're right not as aggressive as China. The point remains a large population could be used effectively to make a country prosper.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
All the British dole scroungers will move here Eat your heart out Daily Mail!! [/QB]
They won't have anything to put in their paper anymore
(deleted the bit where I accidentally edited you instead of replying )
[ 17. February 2011, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Shanta Gdeeda ]
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
What I can't figure out is how all Johnny Foreigners are simultaneously taking all 'our' jobs and claiming all 'our' dole money?
Anyway, Off Topic so I won't sidetrack anymore!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
I hope they find a new progressive Minister of Education and totally revamp the entire system. The strength of the new nation will rely on well educated men and women. Also, get the kids off the streets and into school.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Okay was about to go to bed then saw this:
Egyptian prosecutors have ordered the arrest of a former ruling party chief and three ministers from deposed strongman Hosni Mubarak's government, including its onetime interior minister, the state news agency MENA announced Thursday.
Habib Adly, that was Hosni Mubaraks right hand man. He was the POLICE and AMN Al-Dowla.
Justice.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It's a start
Does seem a bit sus (well, a lot sus really) that they aren't asking for Mubaraks assets to be frozen though. William Hague has said upteen times when the order comes we'll do it but the order just doesn't seem to be coming...
Makes you wonder... Who exactly is running the show now? General conscensus seems to be the people want their money back...
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Something else that sickens me...The way the mouthpieces of the US flip flop daily/hourly on what countries they "feel" deserve a democratic society. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Depends on the oil and strategic alliances really doesn't it. I think the US has a lot of navel gazing to do on this subject.
When they said US marines were coming to the Red Sea, I thought to myself 'that's to protect Suez Canal not people'.
But they're not the only ones, the UK has been very mealy-mouthed on the subject too.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Okay was about to go to bed then saw this:
Egyptian prosecutors have ordered the arrest of a former ruling party chief and three ministers from deposed strongman Hosni Mubarak's government, including its onetime interior minister, the state news agency MENA announced Thursday.
Habib Adly, that was Hosni Mubaraks right hand man. He was the POLICE and AMN Al-Dowla.
Justice.
Do you think the time may come when they go after Soliman too?
I wonder what kind of cell they put these crooks in? Do they have some special cells for the "elite"?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Okay was about to go to bed then saw this:
Egyptian prosecutors have ordered the arrest of a former ruling party chief and three ministers from deposed strongman Hosni Mubarak's government, including its onetime interior minister, the state news agency MENA announced Thursday.
Habib Adly, that was Hosni Mubaraks right hand man. He was the POLICE and AMN Al-Dowla.
Justice.
Normally NYT does a very great job reporting. but when a story gets handed over to the AP words are rearranged or replaced. Possibly this article is an example:
Ms. Morayef said the cases of detention and torture did not appear to be “systematic,” but added, “It is enough to set off alarm bells and call for an investigation into abuses by the military police.”
And this piece:
“The military is detaining people incommunicado, which is illegal, and so it is effectively disappearing people,” said Heba Morayef of Human Rights Watch, which has documented four cases that it describes as involving torture. Amnesty International has documented three such cases, and the Front for the Defense of Egyptian Protesters has documented five.
Now a westerner assumes Security Forces, military and the Ministry of Interior is all the same organization. So the Associated Press uses the three terms as interoperable.
I just googled "Sami Enan" and found that early in the demonstrations his name was used as a "replacement" for Mubarak. Yet this dude is also being propped up as the go to guy for disappearances and torture.
There is a clear difference between the military, military intelligence, ministry of interior, and the security services.
likewise in US organizations, but why is it when the AP combs over an original article they jumble everything up?
Also could Omar Soliman have been put forward as "Vice President" since Sami Enan name had been sullied yet provided as a savior in western press?
Actually the news article this time is actually very similar:
Sounds like the military transported protesters and the Security Services with Military Intelligence kept information on the detained demonstrators out of official government circulation.
Any word if Sami Anan was arrested?
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
This is the part I don't get. Why should Egyptians trust the Army if they are still illegally detaining and torturing people?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
@ metinoot, you posted the same article twice
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: This is the part I don't get. Why should Egyptians trust the Army if they are still illegally detaining and torturing people?
The military intelligence (US equivilant CIA) arrests demonstrators, the Army soldiers drive the trucks the demonstrators are piled in.
At the prison, the prison police unload them, the army soldiers process the demonstrators, the ministry of interior tortures them, the military intelligence informs the tortured demonstrators what to say and what not to do after being released, the prison police give medical treatment and food, the military intelligence loads them on the trucks to bring the demonstrators to the train to go back to Cairo.
At that point the military soldiers sit with the demonstrators on the train and then drive them back to the military intelligence headquarters. At military intelligence headquarters the ministry of interior officials tell them what will happen if they say something other than what they are told to say, and if they do what they are told not to do....
the military soldiers drive them to their homes.
catch my drift?
I don't think the average military soldier doing his 3 years of duty or even the guy who spends 25 years in the military until retiring knows the entire process or what the ministry of interior, security services, or the military police have done.
putting a blanket blame on the military is too easy.
There are about 20 working parts under several different agencies who take part. Only the ministry of interior coordinates all these moving parts.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: @ metinoot, you posted the same article twice
Actually its not.
MSNBC did a shorter draft of the NYT article. The Associated PRess often takes an article from the original news organization and abbreviates it.
The Abbreviated news article loses certain details which also lose the meaning and intent of the original article.
This is how misinformation gets started, thus how Americans and many westerners get news regirtated with a 'slant'.
"Hidden agendas" and ulterior motives drive the "abbreviated" news reporting.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: This is the part I don't get. Why should Egyptians trust the Army if they are still illegally detaining and torturing people?
I don't think the average military soldier doing his 3 years of duty or even the guy who spends 25 years in the military until retiring knows the entire process or what the ministry of interior, security services, or the military police have done.
putting a blanket blame on the military is too easy.
There are about 20 working parts under several different agencies who take part. Only the ministry of interior coordinates all these moving parts.
But the Chief of the Armed Forces, who is now running this country SHOULD know. If he doesn't know, or else DOES know and this still continues again I ask, How can anyone trust him? Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Am wondering what the popular feeling about Baradei is. Do you think he's p*d off that he wasn't carried in on the backs of cheering crowds without having to go through the hassle of an election?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: This is the part I don't get. Why should Egyptians trust the Army if they are still illegally detaining and torturing people?
I don't think the average military soldier doing his 3 years of duty or even the guy who spends 25 years in the military until retiring knows the entire process or what the ministry of interior, security services, or the military police have done.
putting a blanket blame on the military is too easy.
There are about 20 working parts under several different agencies who take part. Only the ministry of interior coordinates all these moving parts.
But the Chief of the Armed Forces, who is now running this country SHOULD know. If he doesn't, then again I ask, how can anyone trust him?
Laura he has to know. But you can be certain that he also is aware he cannot let this continue on his watch.
the common idea is that as long as someone is in charge they are responsible, everyone else is taking orders.
When a regime change happens its convenient finally to refuse orders. doesn't explain why until the regime change happened he didn't refuse similar orders before.
they've known, they've always known. But the impact of those orders on politicians as they move up through the military takes a different impact and subsequent residue.
Its always wrong to do what is being done, but when its inconvenient to your career thats when things change doesn't it?
Sorry I've got to hit the sack. Neighbor upstairs gets home at 2.30am to exercise his two terrier puppies in the apartment instead of the middle of the day. So I sleep until now and then wait out puppy time until I can go back and sleep another 3 hours before going to work.
Yes it needs to change, but this is the way humans are. The time, situation and situation needs to put an agenda through which can make this convenient for their careers.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Am wondering what the popular feeling about Baradei is. Do you think he's p*d off that he wasn't carried in on the backs of cheering crowds without having to go through the hassle of an election?
he's on the transitory council.
He's pretty much off limits to the public.
Right now they are at the tail end of 10 days to rewrite the constitution.
thats night 10 days to rewrite portions of the constitution that was amended over and over again over 30 years to legitimize the emergency law.
The transitory council is split up and sent to several different hotels every night and not allowed to be at the same hotel every night. They aren't allowed to spend more than 5 minutes talking to loved ones. Only one phone call a day.
Limited sleep, little time to shower, no TV, constant work.
el-Baradei did this before on the UN nuclear regulatory committee, he knows the retinue.
18 months later he'll sleep for a month straight through. Because he's done this before, he'll know how to pace himself.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
A number of posts have been deleted and the contents copied over to the 'bitching thread'. This post refers.
I have responded in the Mods thread. Can we stick more or less to topic from now on thanks.
For what it's worth Sono, I actually think you are making some interesting points in this thread on the actual topic.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Seems most media now is picking the most frightening/ugly (not that I ever thought he was attractive looking)pics of Mubarak for their articles. Evil looking.. Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Seems most media now is picking the most frightening/ugly (not that I ever thought he was attractive looking)pics of Mubarak for their articles. Evil looking..
I always thought he was evil looking.......always gave me the creeps
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Seems most media now is picking the most frightening/ugly (not that I ever thought he was attractive looking)pics of Mubarak for their articles. Evil looking..
I always thought he was evil looking.......always gave me the creeps
I noticed that, some are quite frightening!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
My residency visa is for 5 years each time. Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Seems most media now is picking the most frightening/ugly (not that I ever thought he was attractive looking)pics of Mubarak for their articles. Evil looking..
I always thought he was evil looking.......always gave me the creeps
I noticed that, some are quite frightening!
He was photoshopped and touched up for years
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Seems most media now is picking the most frightening/ugly (not that I ever thought he was attractive looking)pics of Mubarak for their articles. Evil looking..
I always thought he was evil looking.......always gave me the creeps
I noticed that, some are quite frightening!
The last couple of speeches he made with the subdued lighting etc I couldn't help thinking he was a perfect Dracula, all that was missing was the cape Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Just seen on TV, square is heaving! Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just seen on TV, square is heaving!
And they say Qaradawi led the Friday prayers. Puke!
Posted by cbrbddd (Member # 3891) on :
nothing ever changes around here does it??? Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I'm trying to figure the best way to clean up the last couple of pages and I'm probably going to copy and paste the most inflammatory posts and responses to the Bitching Thread whether people want them there or not rather than just delete posts.
Unfortunately the system does not allow me to move individual posts so it will be just text copies in one or two big long posts.
I think I will be reduced to hijacking the Armed Forces SMSs and begging for a return to stability so pretty please with sugar on top can we return to topic in this thread and stop responding to the insults and attacks?
Any insulting or response to insult posts made in this thread after this post WILL be deleted unceremoniously.
Right, It's 18:35 in Egypt and I'm starting the cleaning now. I'm working BACKWARDS so the location of posts doesn't change as I go. I will then paste the copies over in Bitching Thread.
Well that was an hour of my life I don't want to live again - half an hour hunting and copying posts and then nearly half an hour moving them.
I will delete the posts where I have put 'contents removed' later so it's not so depressing to read.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Tens of thousands of people have gathered in Cairo's Tahrir Square to celebrate the overthrow one week ago of Hosni Mubarak as Egypt's president.
"Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said."
Wonder what that is all about? Is there some current conflicts going on now about peoples opinion of him? I think I saw somewhere recently a "Wael Ghonim doesn't speak for me" facebook thing.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: "Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said."
Wonder what that is all about? Is there some current conflicts going on now about peoples opinion of him? I think I saw somewhere recently a "Wael Ghonim doesn't speak for me" facebook thing.
Yes, some people are trying to make out he's a freemason or something due to having a polo shirt on with a lion logo and the same lion rampant is on the masonic coat of arms (same as it is on thousands of Coats of Arms)
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely?
I don't know Shanta, it seems AJE is being dominated today of the news by the BLOODBATH going on in surrounding countries. Incredibly sad Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely?
quote:Originally posted by Laura: "Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said."
Wonder what that is all about? Is there some current conflicts going on now about peoples opinion of him? I think I saw somewhere recently a "Wael Ghonim doesn't speak for me" facebook thing.
Yes, some people are trying to make out he's a freemason or something due to having a polo shirt on with a lion logo and the same lion rampant is on the masonic coat of arms (same as it is on thousands of Coats of Arms)
That is just beyond ridiculous. A little scary though, how fast things can develop using "social networks" for both good and bad.
Just read the following article which gives a few more reasons for his sudden unpopularity.(At least these seem a little more credible than wearing shirt with emblem on it.)
There was a news item on BBC World earlier - they were talking to someone in the tourist business here - sorry didn't catch who - and he said someone from the government had actually phoned him in the past week and asked him what his grievances might be!!!!! He was astonished.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Aww..pls don't send Sono and Ayisha to another thread.
They're fun and have shaped this forum's character throughout the years..let them say what they want, freedom to the people. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
They can say what they want, just not in this thread. I had loads of complaints about it. I deleted about 2 pages worth of fighting posts which can be seen in the Bitching Thread.
Also note that other mods are inclined to simply delete a whole thread where there are lots of complaints, not spend several hours editing the irrelevancies which I think would be a crying shame as we are individuals here commenting on history as it is being made as it affects us as people with an interest in Egypt personally and without the benefit of hindsight.
Further discussion of this point to the Mods thread please!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: This is one place where the masonic stuff is:
Well the guy obviously loves Giordano shirts...but....After reading up on this company, I hardly think it has Masonic ties. If it does have some super secret hidden ties then someone should alert the Emirates about it, as their Middle East headquaters are in Dubai.
Silly really
I wonder how many arabs that owned a shirt like that hid it or burned it when they saw ppl trying to connect it to the Masons...lol
Made a trip over to Mohandiseen this afternoon. First time going over in that direction since the beginning of January.
I have to say, I was *extremely* pleased at how clean the streets were. Not just the main street but the little side streets too.
The trash all over Cairo has been such an eyesore and something that I know many ex-pats can't stand to see.
I'm glad that they are cleaning up all over and insha'Allah they keep it up.
Also noticed as I was leaving the apartment today that they had repainted the edge of the sidewalk, but instead of just black and white, they got red in there too. Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely?
I don't know Shanta, it seems AJE is being dominated today of the news by the BLOODBATH going on in surrounding countries. Incredibly sad
I actually like the Bahrainis, had a couple fellow students in college from that nation.
One particular student of the pair stated the government is really bad and it is secretarian like Iraq.
I just can't understand why these governments feel its okay to fire live ammunition on peaceful protesters. The governments assume they answer to no one.
I think you might remember Kent University, if I have the name right. It was a protest against the Viet Nam war in which the National guard fired rounds into the crowd and killed 4 people.
I think its the Kent State incident which really gets to Americans about the uprising in the Middle East. Its part of our history too.
This is the part of Arab mentality I just never understood, that its leaders feel untouchable and because they are Muslim they answer to no other law except for their own hand picked laws.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
Wikipedia - Egypt 2011 Revolution the complete story of the peaceful Egyptian revolution. Very well presented. A link to save...!
It would be nice if someone could translate the stuff on the Armed Forces FB page. They've posted stuff in picture format so I can't copy and paste it into Google Translate which though leaving something to be desired, does give a vague idea as to what it's all about!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Wikipedia - Egypt 2011 Revolution the complete story of the peaceful Egyptian revolution. Very well presented. A link to save...!
Very nice thanks.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Wikipedia - Egypt 2011 Revolution the complete story of the peaceful Egyptian revolution. Very well presented. A link to save...!
25 January 2011: Nationwide protests against the government of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak began, inspired by Tunisia's uprising. Tens of thousands of protestors gathered in Cairo, with thousands more in cities throughout Egypt. The protests were generally non-violent, but there were reports of some casualties among both civilians and police.
28 January 2011: The “Day of Rage” protests began. Shortly after Friday prayers, hundreds of thousands gathered in Cairo and other Egyptian cities. Opposition leader Mohammed ElBaradei traveled to Cairo to participate. Some looting was reported, and the Egyptian government ordered the military to assist police. International fears of violence grew, but no major casualties were reported.
That was the understatement of the century. It doesn't in any way describe what happened on January 28 and how pivotal that day was and the level of violence that propelled the protests to a full blown revolution. The revolution started and ended peacefully but succeeded because it got violent.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I'm trying to figure the best way to clean up the last couple of pages and I'm probably going to copy and paste the most inflammatory posts and responses to the Bitching Thread whether people want them there or not rather than just delete posts.
I personally do not care who writes what and do not read the board that much. Having said that if I were you I would simply delete everything those two idiots write. No copy and past and all that crap, simply delete the posts.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: "Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said."
Wonder what that is all about? Is there some current conflicts going on now about peoples opinion of him? I think I saw somewhere recently a "Wael Ghonim doesn't speak for me" facebook thing.
Well, to be honest I wasn't at all impressed by his interview with this Egyptian woman on the private Egyptian channel. I felt the bit when he cried at the end came across as staged. I don't know much about him and I'm not on facebook and not into social networing, so admittedly I'm judging from just one view of him. However, I feel that he was being pushed forward as the leader of the revolution. Later on I've seen a few people inteviewed on the BBC and AJ being presented as youth leaders (including Ahmad Fouad Negm's daughter). My question is two fold a) How representative are those "leaders" of the youth movement? I mean how have they been selected, have they been elected somehow? b) How representative is the "youth movement" as a whole of the Egyptian population?
I also think that the youth movement wants to get things done too quickly. I think we do need some form of emergency law or some other exceptional laws for the time being. Those are exceptional circumstances and that's what true emergency laws are meant for, when there's a breakdown of normal laws. I also think that the committee for constitutional reform should take it's time. Ten days is WAAAAY too short a time for such a crucial task. You'd take much longer to negotiate a two party contract, let alone a document that will decide all other laws in the land. I do acknowledge they're not starting from a scratch and that some of them had already suggested specific constitutional reforms years ago (I beleive Taher El-Beshry and Abul Magd), but still it's not a task to be taken lightly and in haste.
Anyway, I really hope the revolution will reap its benefits and Egypt becomes a better place for everybody, Egyptians and visitors.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Okay was about to go to bed then saw this:
Egyptian prosecutors have ordered the arrest of a former ruling party chief and three ministers from deposed strongman Hosni Mubarak's government, including its onetime interior minister, the state news agency MENA announced Thursday.
Habib Adly, that was Hosni Mubaraks right hand man. He was the POLICE and AMN Al-Dowla.
Justice.
Do you think the time may come when they go after Soliman too?
I wonder what kind of cell they put these crooks in? Do they have some special cells for the "elite"?
I doubt Soliman will prosecuted in this current climate. The hunt appears to be after the money. To date they targeted NDP members who had free access to embezzling money.
Ahmed Ezz Billionaire MP & tycoon, also Gamal Mubrak's BFF net worth 7-10 billion dollars
Habib Adly - Interior Minister net worth 1.3 billion dollars
Zuhair Garana – Tourism Minister net worth 2.1 billion dollars
Ahmed Al-Maqrabi – Housing Minister net worth 1.8 billion dollars
These people have the same characteristics they're sycophants, held prestigious positions and became filthy rich via their positions.
As for will “they have special cells.” I believe they will as transparency remains lacking. These were highly influential people and I'm sure many of their connections remain in place.
We'll see what deveolpes, but it's hard to believe that the integrity of the judicial system changed overnight. It is not like there is an impartial and independent prosecutor or committee that is overseeing these corruption cases. I find it hard to believe that a regime is able to prosecute itself from within.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely?
I don't know Shanta, it seems AJE is being dominated today of the news by the BLOODBATH going on in surrounding countries. Incredibly sad
I actually like the Bahrainis, had a couple fellow students in college from that nation.
One particular student of the pair stated the government is really bad and it is secretarian like Iraq.
I just can't understand why these governments feel its okay to fire live ammunition on peaceful protesters. The governments assume they answer to no one.
I think you might remember Kent University, if I have the name right. It was a protest against the Viet Nam war in which the National guard fired rounds into the crowd and killed 4 people.
I think its the Kent State incident which really gets to Americans about the uprising in the Middle East. Its part of our history too.
This is the part of Arab mentality I just never understood, that its leaders feel untouchable and because they are Muslim they answer to no other law except for their own hand picked laws.
Sure I remember Kent State. That was 1970 a memorable (good and bad) year for me. Living in Madison I also witnessed the bombing of Sterling Hall. Shocking and probably one of the first "terrorist attacks" in the US by Americans.
I also don't agree with the mentality of these arab rulers (not that I agree with any western leaders either). Akin to the Master/Slave mentality.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Laura: "Google executive Wael Ghonim, who emerged as a leading voice in Egypt's uprising, was barred from the stage in Tahrir Square on Friday by security guards, an AFP photographer said."
Wonder what that is all about? Is there some current conflicts going on now about peoples opinion of him? I think I saw somewhere recently a "Wael Ghonim doesn't speak for me" facebook thing.
Well, to be honest I wasn't at all impressed by his interview with this Egyptian woman on the private Egyptian channel. I felt the bit when he cried at the end came across as staged. I don't know much about him and I'm not on facebook and not into social networing, so admittedly I'm judging from just one view of him. However, I feel that he was being pushed forward as the leader of the revolution. Later on I've seen a few people inteviewed on the BBC and AJ being presented as youth leaders (including Ahmad Fouad Negm's daughter). My question is two fold a) How representative are those "leaders" of the youth movement? I mean how have they been selected, have they been elected somehow? b) How representative is the "youth movement" as a whole of the Egyptian population?
I also think that the youth movement wants to get things done too quickly. I think we do need some form of emergency law or some other exceptional laws for the time being. Those are exceptional circumstances and that's what true emergency laws are meant for, when there's a breakdown of normal laws. I also think that the committee for constitutional reform should take it's time. Ten days is WAAAAY too short a time for such a crucial task. You'd take much longer to negotiate a two party contract, let alone a document that will decide all other laws in the land. I do acknowledge they're not starting from a scratch and that some of them had already suggested specific constitutional reforms years ago (I beleive Taher El-Beshry and Abul Magd), but still it's not a task to be taken lightly and in haste.
Anyway, I really hope the revolution will reap its benefits and Egypt becomes a better place for everybody, Egyptians and visitors.
You raise some excellent points Amoun. From what I have read, they are not actually rewriting the constitution, but merely amending a couple of items to allow for a free election. After a free election occurs then it's up to the new administration to take on the rest of it.
And yes, I also think that people are demanding way too much, too soon, especially the labor force. I see today that the Armed Forces is stating they will use Legal Measures if any more demo's or strikes occur. Wonder how that will go over...hmmm...and what exactly are their legal measures.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I doubt Soliman will prosecuted in this current climate. The hunt appears to be after the money. To date they targeted NDP members who had free access to embezzling money.
Ahmed Ezz Billionaire MP & tycoon, also Gamal Mubrak's BFF net worth 7-10 billion dollars
Habib Adly - Interior Minister net worth 1.3 billion dollars
Zuhair Garana – Tourism Minister net worth 2.1 billion dollars
Ahmed Al-Maqrabi – Housing Minister net worth 1.8 billion dollars
These people have the same characteristics they're sycophants, held prestigious positions and became filthy rich via their positions.
As for will “they have special cells.” I believe they will as transparency remains lacking. These were highly influential people and I'm sure many of their connections remain in place.
We'll see what deveolpes, but it's hard to believe that the integrity of the judicial system changed overnight. It is not like there is an impartial and independent prosecutor or committee that is overseeing these corruption cases. I find it hard to believe that a regime is able to prosecute itself from within.
It seems the Swiss had just enacted a new law that allows them to freeze accounts of suspected political embezzlers without being asked. That's good news. They stated yesterday they had froze accounts of many of the Mubarak clan and "tens of millions francs" would soon be returned to Egypt. Ok when I did the math that amounts to tens of millions dollars as the exchange rate is not much different between francs and dollars. That's millions, not billions. It is a start though....
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Some good news for Egyptian ppl....this will help many ppl tremendously! I think alot of the prices of food were controlled by these crooks who worked for Mubarak...
Butchers, green grocers slash prices in solidarity with revolution
Several butchers and green grocers have decided to lower their prices in solidarity with the 25 January revolution.
Traders raised banners with slogans such as “No to manipulation” and “In solidarity with our people, we discount our prices.” They cut the price of tomatoes to LE1-1.25per kilo and oranges to LE1.75.
The prices of vegetables dropped to a record low on Friday, with haricot beans and peas dropping to LE3 a kilo; taro, carrots and bell peppers to LE2; and potatoes, okra and onions to LE1.5. Butchers reduced the prices of local meat from LE70 to LE40-45 a kilo.
Traders said that the price cuts will reduce their profits, but said they will willingly absorb the loss.
Ahmed Ata, a retailer, said that the decision by several green grocers to lower prices has kept the prices of vegetables low, and that retailers have not abused the low supply of goods to raise prices.
Ata said he expects prices to remain low over the coming days.
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Some good news for Egyptian ppl....this will help many ppl tremendously! I think alot of the prices of food were controlled by these crooks who worked for Mubarak...
Butchers, green grocers slash prices in solidarity with revolution
Several butchers and green grocers have decided to lower their prices in solidarity with the 25 January revolution.
Traders raised banners with slogans such as “No to manipulation” and “In solidarity with our people, we discount our prices.” They cut the price of tomatoes to LE1-1.25per kilo and oranges to LE1.75.
The prices of vegetables dropped to a record low on Friday, with haricot beans and peas dropping to LE3 a kilo; taro, carrots and bell peppers to LE2; and potatoes, okra and onions to LE1.5. Butchers reduced the prices of local meat from LE70 to LE40-45 a kilo.
Traders said that the price cuts will reduce their profits, but said they will willingly absorb the loss.
Ahmed Ata, a retailer, said that the decision by several green grocers to lower prices has kept the prices of vegetables low, and that retailers have not abused the low supply of goods to raise prices.
Ata said he expects prices to remain low over the coming days.
That is excellent news... the % increase of food over the last three years has taken its toll on many.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: ...................
Ahmed Ezz Billionaire MP & tycoon, also Gamal Mubrak's BFF net worth 7-10 billion dollars
Habib Adly - Interior Minister net worth 1.3 billion dollars
Zuhair Garana – Tourism Minister net worth 2.1 billion dollars
Ahmed Al-Maqrabi – Housing Minister net worth 1.8 billion dollars
These people have the same characteristics they're sycophants, held prestigious positions and became filthy rich via their positions.
As for will “they have special cells.” I believe they will as transparency remains lacking. These were highly influential people and I'm sure many of their connections remain in place.
......
I've received this clip, allegedly showing Ezz, Garrana and Magrebi taken into prison. Very unnerving, almost surreal. Those same police officers and soldiers would've been saluting them and protecting them only a month ago! It's a bit scarey how times change in unpredictable ways. Who would've thought a month ago that Ezz would be dragged into prison when he was on the top of the world.
بعد اجتماع عدد من منظمات المجتمع المدني في مؤسسة المرأة الجديدة اليوم، للإتفاق على التحرك الجماعي في هذه المرحلة...
تتشرف المنظمات في مصر بدعوة سيادتكم للمشاركة في مؤتمر صحفي لمناقشة البيان المقدم للمجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة من أجل :
1 ـ تغيير الوزارة القائمة بوزارة جديدة لا يشارك فيها الشخصيات التي تمثل إستفزازاً للشعب المصري ممن شاركوا في أخطاء النظام السابق.
2 ـ إعادة تشكيل اللجنة المنوط بها تعديل الدستور بحيث تضم جميع الأطياف السياسية والإجتماعية نساءً ورجالاً. ... 3 ـ التعجيل بمحاسبة من ساهموا في فساد او إفساد النظام السابق وفي الانتهاكات التي وجهت ضد ثورة 25 يناير وبكل شفافية.
آملين في مشاركة سيادتكم والتي سوف تثري المناقشة حول فعاليات اللقاء .
المتحدثين : 1. د/ محمد نور فرحات 2. أ/ نولة درويش 3. أ/ أمير سالم 4. د/ هدى بدران 5. د. محمد منبر مجاهد 6. المستشارة / تهانى الجبالى .... أتيلية القاهرة رقم 2 شارع كريم الدولة - متفرع من شارع محمود بسيوني - طلعت حرب الساعه الخامسة رابطة المراة العربية
Which google translate says means:
After meeting a number of civil society organizations in the New Woman Foundation today, to agree on collective action at this stage ...
Organizations in Egypt has the honor to invite you to participate in a news conference to discuss the statement submitted to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces for:
1 Change the ministry's new menu at the Ministry does not share the characters that represent a provocation to the Egyptian people who participated in the errors of the former regime.
2 re-formation of the committee charged with amending the constitution to include all political and social spectrum of women and men. ... 3 speed contributed to the accounting of corruption or corruption of the former regime and abuses directed against the Revolution of January 25 with full transparency.
We hope to share yourself and that will enrich the debate on the activities of the meeting.
Speakers: 1. Dr / Mohamed Nour Farahat 2. A / Noula Darwish 3. A / Amir Salem 4. D / Hoda Badran 5. D. Mohammed Mujahid platform 6. Chancellor / congratulations Jabali .... Atelier Cairo No. 2 State Street Kareem - Branched From Mahmoud Bassiouni - Talaat Harb Five o'clock Alliance for Arab Women
Doesn't seem to say what date unless it means right now!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Prison guards accused of killing dozens of jail inmates in Egypt
An investigation has opened into the suspected fatal shooting by prison guards of dozens of jail inmates in what is probably the biggest single atrocity committed by state-employed security forces during the protests that toppled Hosni Mubarak.
An account of killings, wounded inmates left without treatment for days and others forced to scavenge for food at a jail in al-Qatta has emerged based on evidence from inmates and relatives. Some details are impossible to corroborate, including a claim by one prisoner this week that 153 inmates were killed.
[ 19. February 2011, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Shanta Gdeeda ]
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Lara Logan - a guy called Richard Bridge has posted this account of what happened to her - I don't know how he knows - but it seems more realistic than other stories going around.
"The incident initially started with verbal abuse by local women against all journalists present. A camera belonging to a German film crew was damaged, a lot of pushing and shoving started, Lara and her crew became separated, her sound recording engineer witnessed the assault on Lara but was unable to reach her.
He said she was pushed i...nto what looked like a bus shelter. She was surrounded by about eight men, two held her and she was quickly stripped naked and repeatedly groped. A number of these men took lurid self gratification, he confirmed three or four other men carried out penetration, of these two seemed quite old.
At no point was an attempt made to stop them. There was a report that local women intervened, no one can confirmed this. It was a technician from a Dutch news channel who notified soldiers standing nearby, they intervened after about 25 minutes.
Lara is a strong person, it will take considerable time to get her over this."
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
That is just incredibly disgusting, shocking and sad! Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I've just messaged the guy who posted it to see if he can tell me his source. I dunno, this version of events just sounds much more real to me.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Mmmm... I dunno. He doesn't seem very credible to me. None of his FB friends indicate any connection... In fact there seems to be a bit of a national front thing going on there. He just looks like a bit of a weirdo to me.
EDIT: Yeah, in his activities and interests it says he's BNP. What a sick pile of...
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Really - I didn't notice that - oh yeah just read it now. Doesn't mean his story is shite though. Be interested to see what, if, his reply is!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Do they have bus shelters in Tahrir Square?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I was trying to think what kind of structure it might be. They do have things like bus shelters sort of, trying to think where exactly.
I don't think it's an eye witness account, but it just sounds more realistic than '200 people'.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I've googled the first paragraph and it appears in a number of places, so I think he was copying it from somewhere. Will have a look through and see if I can find a more credible source.
Again, have to use the cached version because the Question has actually been deleted from Yahoo.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
What is BNP?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
British National Party - fascist party in the UK. Do quite well in local elections in certain parts of Essex and other parts of the country. Anti-immigrants that sort of stuff.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
But only the cached version as it's since been deleted.
I just don't think her sound engineer would give such a graphic account, and I find it hard to believe he was pinned there for 25 whole minutes, saw the whole thing and could do nothing about it... With a crowd like that I don't think he'd have seen anything unless it was literally under his nose.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Something just doesn't add up in all this. Was just reading where she was expelled from Egypt at gunpoint on the 4th after being held in detention for 24 hours. So she flew to the states and then a few days later hopped on a plane and came back? Would she even be able to get back in, if she was thrown out like that?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
There's something not adding up in the story, but I just find it more likely she was bundled into a small confined area possibly down a side street and something happened than a baying mob of 200. That said, I guess most foreigners avoided Tahrir because the State TV had been saying foreigners and journalists were Israeli spies and whipping folk into a frenzy. So I guess it might have happened as stated. Did it happen before Mubarak 'stepped down' or after?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I thought it was after.
I'm not saying I don't think it happened, nor that it isn't awful - clearly it is.
CBS did say the guys who did it kept chanting 'Jew'.
But rape is rape and sexual assault is sexual assault. CBS put the statement out there which she had to have approved, so presumably if it had been rape then they would have said that. They didn't have to reveal her name - she could have retained her anonimity, and the statement could have been put out as 'a reporter was attacked'.
I dunno. This guy going into all the lurid details... he just sounds like some old perve to me, plus given his background and his denial of the women helping her, coupled with him implying that the army just stood and watched for 25 minutes... sounds like an anti-foreign thing to me. Doesn't mention the beating - presumably if she's still in hospital several days later it must have been pretty horendous.
I'll be interested to see what his reply is.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
This facebook group want Wael Ghonim to be authorised to speak.
Anyway, they have just produced a one page graphic of behaviours covering speeding, rubbish, harassment, smoking, traffic, pedestrian and other items.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Egypt Moving Forward invites you to join us for an exciting celebration of Egyptian life and culture as we welcome the world to the New Egypt.
Beginning at 3:00 PM on February 26th, Luxor Temple Park will come alive with the voices of Luxorians and authentic folkloric entertainment.
Egypt Moving Forward is welcoming the world to celebrate our culture and unity: coming together and embracing change.
Today, Egypt is making new history: a free future for the people. The streets of Egypt are full of newfound liberty, happiness, and the warmth and hospitality the people are famous for. Freedom has brought new life to Egypt.
Did it happen before Mubarak 'stepped down' or after?
After. I saw her around 11 p.m. on the night of the celebrations, and at that point she was doing fine and in the company of a cameraman.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I thought it was after.
I'm not saying I don't think it happened, nor that it isn't awful - clearly it is.
CBS did say the guys who did it kept chanting 'Jew'.
I'll be interested to see what his reply is.
I'd be interested to see what her comments are. The whole thing sounded like too much drama to me, but now with what's mentioned above I feel very strongly that it is indeed drama, not real life.
I believe that's the dilemma with social networking, whilst the provide huge opportunities they pose serious challenges as well. You can write anything you want and you're bound to find someone who'd believe it. Someone has written something earlier in this or the original thread that sounded too much drama as well. Throughout the revolution we had all sorts of preposterous claims that nobody could verify.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: .
2 re-formation of the committee charged with amending the constitution to include all political and social spectrum of women and men. ...
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this one. This is not a popularity contest, it's a highly technical issue. Ammending the constitution requires some of the great legal minds in Egypt, a panel of experts. What they're suggesting is like you're driving down the street, you witness a hit and run. You stop, pick-up the victim and take her to hospital, they tell you thanks for saving her life, now please perform brain surgery on her so she returns to normal. Some issues have to be left to the experts. It's like when you want to draw a contract, you tell the lawyers what yo want in detail and they do it. So yes, all people should have an input in what needs to be done, but the actual articulation and formulation should be left to the experts.
Besides, as Laura says, this will probably be an interim constitution to facilitate the election of parliament and the president. They then can initiate a new amendment process.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Mmmm... I dunno. He doesn't seem very credible to me. None of his FB friends indicate any connection... In fact there seems to be a bit of a national front thing going on there. He just looks like a bit of a weirdo to me.
I think the guy is a freak! Look at his page – lots of pictures of half-naked chicks, and some friend congratulating him on getting the Russ Meyer box set. He obviously got off on the description of an attractive blond woman raped in public by a bunch of Arab guys gone wild. Ugh!
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
It was posted elsewhere on the net before he put it out there, but seems to have since been taken down.
Yeah, if he were a dog I reckon they'd put him to sleep. His FB page is the best advert for emigrating I ever saw.
EDIT: Ew, ew, ew... I didn't see the half naked ladies. This guy is wrong on every level.
ES needs a puke smilie
POST EDIT EDIT: This guy's older posts are unbelieveable. I'm ringing the Natural History Museum first thing. I think we just found the missing link...
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
He hasn't answered yet....
I just thought about a structure that would fit the description. I am pretty sure that there are some bus 'shelters' in the side streets.
However, on the green area in front of the Mogamma, if you stand and look at the front of Mogamma, to the right hand side near the side road to the right, there is a kind of structure which I think has a water bottle dispenser in it. It is about the size of a bus shelter, but is of quite solid structure, and has two closed in sides. It would be pretty easy to trap someone in between the two open sides if you were minded to do so and if there were people on both sides.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
I think you should all stop speculating of what exactly happened to the CBS reporter, there is just too much BS out right now by different people who claim to know the exact facts.
Give Lara Logan some time to recover and she will tell her story.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Also, cabinet reshuffle expected in the next few hours. Expected that some current figures will be replaced with opposition figures.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: ...................
Ahmed Ezz Billionaire MP & tycoon, also Gamal Mubrak's BFF net worth 7-10 billion dollars
Habib Adly - Interior Minister net worth 1.3 billion dollars
Zuhair Garana – Tourism Minister net worth 2.1 billion dollars
Ahmed Al-Maqrabi – Housing Minister net worth 1.8 billion dollars
These people have the same characteristics they're sycophants, held prestigious positions and became filthy rich via their positions.
As for will “they have special cells.” I believe they will as transparency remains lacking. These were highly influential people and I'm sure many of their connections remain in place.
......
I've received this clip, allegedly showing Ezz, Garrana and Magrebi taken into prison. Very unnerving, almost surreal. Those same police officers and soldiers would've been saluting them and protecting them only a month ago! It's a bit scarey how times change in unpredictable ways. Who would've thought a month ago that Ezz would be dragged into prison when he was on the top of the world.
Getting a taste of their own medicine. Their apprehension, I take it was under the Emergency Law, kind of ironic. At least they heard their charges. I’m sure Ezz and others are comfortable in Tora, it is notorious for allowing inmates as many possessions and luxuries as they can afford. TV, Mobiles, Take out, Intimacy, Etc.
There is something fishy though. Ahmed Ezz was prevented from traveling abroad in late January. This was when HM was in control. Habib Adly was prevented from traveling immediately after he was dismissed as MoI. This was also true for the Housing Minister, he actually wisely replied “I’m hearing this for the first time”, when reporters told him he was banned from traveling abroad.
The point I’m trying to make here is that most of these individual were targeted when HM was still in power. I really don’t know what to make of it, but something stinks. How can Ezz face corruption charges when Gamal isn’t? The entire world know they’re linked and associated in most dealings.
Monkey mentioned it was suspect that HM accounts were not included in the list of accounts requested to be frozen. My only guess is that HM/Gamal are using those accounts to funnel (bribe) to accounts of military officials.
But yeah that video was awesome if there's any merit to it.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I have read that Hisham Talat Mustafa was welcoming them in Tora Prison when they came.
For those who do not know, hisham was a real estate Tycoon who built Al rehab and madinati. He was accused and condemned of killing a lebanese singer.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model. I am wondering how she switched her career to the press. There must be a unknown story to tell.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model. I am wondering how she switched her career to the press. There must be a unknown story to tell.
So good looks and brain can't go together in your opinion? And therefore you are questioning her academic achievements?
She was a swimsuit model while studying journalism at the University of Natal in Durban, which she successfully graduated in 1992.
Tareq, you don't think that Lara Logan is a 'loose' woman, do you? You don't think that she deserved what happened to her at Tahrir Square because of her past????
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I have read that Hisham Talat Mustafa was welcoming them in Tora Prison when they came.
For those who do not know, hisham was a real estate Tycoon who built Al rehab and madinati. He was accused and condemned of killing a lebanese singer.
And I thought he escaped prison three weeks ago. Lots of unconfirmed rumors, it's crazy....
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model.
Yeah, so? What does that have to do with anything? Never heard of people switching carreers? Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: How can Ezz face corruption charges when Gamal isn’t? The entire world know they’re linked and associated in most dealings.
[/QB]
I was asking the same question last night to hubby Exiiled, and he said that it will be much harder to go after Gamal since he had no official position in the regime, was only a member of the NDP. Just his opinion This must be extremely frustrating for many. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model. I am wondering how she switched her career to the press. There must be a unknown story to tell.
So good looks and brain can't go together in your opinion? And therefore you are questioning her academic achievements?
She was a swimsuit model while studying journalism at the University of Natal in Durban, which she successfully graduated in 1992.
Tareq, you don't think that Lara Logan is a 'loose' woman, do you? You don't think that she deserved what happened to her at Tahrir Square because of her past????
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model.
Yeah, so? What does that have to do with anything? Never heard of people switching carreers?
What a load of Questions..
I do not believe 50 % of what is written by journalist who have no past different jobs. what if someone was working a plumber in the past and then went to work as a journalist. It does not match.
I respect speciality.
Yes, she can switch careers ( or 'carrers 'according to Dalia ) but I am not gonna believe such stories written by her Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model. I am wondering how she switched her career to the press. There must be a unknown story to tell.
So good looks and brain can't go together in your opinion? And therefore you are questioning her academic achievements?
She was a swimsuit model while studying journalism at the University of Natal in Durban, which she successfully graduated in 1992.
Tareq, you don't think that Lara Logan is a 'loose' woman, do you? You don't think that she deserved what happened to her at Tahrir Square because of her past????
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model.
Yeah, so? What does that have to do with anything? Never heard of people switching carreers?
What a load of Questions..
I do not believe 50 % of what is written by journalist who have no past different jobs. what if someone was working a plumber in the past and then went to work as a journalist. It does not match.
I respect speciality.
Yes, she can switch careers ( or 'carrers 'according to Dalia ) but I am not gonna believe such stories written by her
yet no problem with a soldier becoming a dictatorial president of a country and bleeding it dry?
Many people work as waitresses or waiters while putting themselves through college, does that make their degrees invalid and make them only half doctors, scientists, journalists, etc? No one is BORN into a particular profession, babaMu wasn't born as president, people work hard in the real world to reach their goals and only here is it down to family related achievements where working hard and having brains matters little
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Yes, she can switch careers ( or 'carrers 'according to Dalia )
Excuse the typo. Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Many people work as waitresses or waiters while putting themselves through college, does that make their degrees invalid and make them only half doctors, scientists, journalists, etc? No one is BORN into a particular profession, babaMu wasn't born as president, people work hard in the real world to reach their goals and only here is it down to family related achievements where working hard and having brains matters little [/QB]
I don't think Tareq has traveled much outside of Egypt and in his country, you don't waitress your way through university (sadly).
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I am not sure if she was working as a model because she was in a need for money. Do not mix being a waiter or waitress for education expenses with being a model for may be a fame and Lots of Money..
I do not Judge any one but I am cautious to believe all what I read. I still take past jobs as a reference to what others speak and talk.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Many people work as waitresses or waiters while putting themselves through college, does that make their degrees invalid and make them only half doctors, scientists, journalists, etc? No one is BORN into a particular profession, babaMu wasn't born as president, people work hard in the real world to reach their goals and only here is it down to family related achievements where working hard and having brains matters little
I don't think Tareq has traveled much outside of Egypt and in his country, you don't waitress your way through university (sadly). [/QB]
Well, I have travelled outside Egypt. and I know personally a couple of American Girls who were working as waitresses during university.
The culture here in egypt is different. But It is not that sad as you describe it. Most families here support their children education during university. They have no need to work before graduation...
Do I need to say that those two girls I know have no solid family. Their parents are divorced.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Hmmm. I know this is a bit controversial but... I actually see where Tareq is coming from.
Not that being an ex model in anyway justifies sexual assault. Not that being an ex model makes you a less credible journalist. But this story sure is big news. 300 (or if you count those murdered in the prison, 450) + people were murdered throughout this revolution. I'd like to see a FB page devoted to each of their families with people saying how sorry they are.
Why does this story make the BBC homepage? Because Lara Logan is beautiful? When that beautiful Egyptian girl was smashed over the head, they didn't print a word for her. She was just a number. And she was not only badly beaten. She's dead. There's something wrong in the world, I'm telling you.
I will say, my best friend from school was raped. The last thing she would have done is put an announcement in the national papers - heck, international papers. Actually, they wouldn't have printed it until it was proven in a court of law.
Everyone and their dog knows who Lara Logan is now. But what was that Egyptian girl called?
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Hmmm. I know this is a bit controversial but... I actually see where Tareq is coming from.
Not that being an ex model in anyway justifies sexual assault. Not that being an ex model makes you a less credible journalist. But this story sure is big news. 300 (or if you count those murdered in the prison, 450) + people were murdered throughout this revolution. I'd like to see a FB page devoted to each of their families with people saying how sorry they are.
Why does this story make the BBC homepage? Because Lara Logan is beautiful? When that beautiful Egyptian girl was smashed over the head, they didn't print a word for her. She was just a number. And she was not only badly beaten. She's dead. There's something wrong in the world, I'm telling you.
I will say, my best friend from school was raped. The last thing she would have done is put an announcement in the national papers - heck, international papers. Actually, they wouldn't have printed it until it was proven in a court of law.
Everyone and their dog knows who Lara Logan is now. But what was that Egyptian girl called?
Great post Monkey with extremely valid points!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I agree with you Monkey regarding the situation of the women.
However, this story is about more than a case of sexual harassment/rape of an individual.
Commments by normal everyday readers of the press are using this incident to say:
(1) Egyptians are nothing but brutish animals (2) This proves that they are unfit for democracy (3) This is an unsafe country to travel in (4) All Egyptian men are abusers (5) It's all because of Islam and that's what we should expect to happen in the UK if we kowtow to muslims and so on and so forth.
I was spitting feathers after reading the Daily Mail readers comments - and unfortunately the Daily Mail never ever publish any comments I ever make (even though I promise you that they are non-inflammatory and polite!)
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: As For Lara Logan, I have read that she was working as a model. I am wondering how she switched her career to the press. There must be a unknown story to tell.
I really always thought of you as an intelligent,quite forward Egyptian guy,but your statement above makes you come across as quite the contrary. Any reason why an attractive or even boldly beautiful woman shouldnt strive or pursue a career other than being a model? Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: .
2 re-formation of the committee charged with amending the constitution to include all political and social spectrum of women and men. ...
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this one. This is not a popularity contest, it's a highly technical issue. Ammending the constitution requires some of the great legal minds in Egypt, a panel of experts. What they're suggesting is like you're driving down the street, you witness a hit and run. You stop, pick-up the victim and take her to hospital, they tell you thanks for saving her life, now please perform brain surgery on her so she returns to normal. Some issues have to be left to the experts. It's like when you want to draw a contract, you tell the lawyers what yo want in detail and they do it. So yes, all people should have an input in what needs to be done, but the actual articulation and formulation should be left to the experts.
Besides, as Laura says, this will probably be an interim constitution to facilitate the election of parliament and the president. They then can initiate a new amendment process.
And I have to disagree with you, Amoun! Please see below petition signed by 63 different organizations:
The Constitutional committee starts working while neglecting and excluding female legal experts
The institutions and organizations below have signed this statement in disapproval of the criteria and formation of the Constitutional Committee, whereby the committee does not include a single female expert. Advancing with a committee like this, triggers fears and suspicions with regards to the future of Egypt and the transitional phase which Egypt is currently witnessing after the 25th of January Revolution. This issue poses a critical question with regards to democracy and the main aims of the revolution which were initially spelled out as equality, freedom, democracy and participation of all citizens. We are hereby questioning the criteria according to which the members of the constitutional committee are chosen; are they based on political criteria or on values of equality and justice as spelled out by the revolution? If the criteria are based on efficiency and integrity, then why are female legal experts excluded despite the fact that Egypt is rich with lots of female experts in constitutions whether in the Supreme Constitutional Court or the Faculties of Law. We believe that as Egyptian women largely and equally participated in the revolution with Egyptian men and some of them have been jailed and still lost while others have even martyred, they have the right to participate in building the New Egyptian State on the simple basis of citizenship. Nevertheless, we strongly have confidence in the discretion of the Military Council in guiding Egypt towards democracy. Hence, we are making the statement today to stress on the values of citizenship and participation of women, specifically in the Constitutional Committee at the moment.
1- The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights- Helwan 2- Andalus institute for tolerance and anti-violence studies- Cairo 3- The Centre for the Independence of Judges and Lawyers (CIJL) – Cairo 4- Association of Human Communication- Cairo 5- The United Group- Cairo 6- Association of Arab Women- Cairo 7- Health and Environmental Culture Society- Cairo 8- Egyptian Medical Women's Association- Helwan 9- Citizen's Society for Development and Human Rights- Giza 10- Maat Foundation for Peace and Development and Human Rights- Cairo 11- Vision Society for Enlightenment and Community Development- El Menia 12- Association of population development and the preservation of the environment- Cairo 13- Our Society Association for Development and Human Rights- Cairo 14- The Egyptian Society for Marketing and Development 15- The Egyptian Foundation for Family Development- Giza 16- Association of Middle East for Peace and Human Rights- Cairo 17- With You Society for Social Assistance- Helwan 18- Gozour Society for the comprehensive Development- Helwan 19- The Egyptian Society for Family Empowerment- Giza 20- The Legislative Association in Bakri Mastour- Qalioubia 21- Pioneers Society for Development- Giza 22- Al Zohor Association for Development - 6th of October 23- Society Development Association in Sakil – 6th of October 24- The Egyptian Association for Environmental and Humanitarian Development - Al Qualiubia 25- Our Society Association for Development and Human Rights - Giza 26- The Egyptian Association for the spread of environmental awareness - Al Qualiubia 27- Association of Women and Child Development - Al Qualiubia 28- The legislative Association in Saa'd Zaghlol – Al Qualiubia 29- Legal Association for the support of Family and Human rights - Cairo 30- Mary Girgis Youth Association - Cairo 31- Hope Association in Al Aslougy - Sharkia 32- Women for Development Association – 6th of October 33- The Egyptian Association for Defend and support - Helwan 34- Ayatollah Association - Giza 35- Economic Liberalization Association - Cairo. 36- Al Sharkia Youth Association – Al Sharkia 37- Al Mashrek Association for Population Development - Sharkia 38- Cairo Center for Development - Giza 39- Kelmetna Association for Dialogue and Development - Cairo 40- El Nadim Center for the Management and Rehabilitation of victims of violence - Cairo 41- Friends of Youth and Environment Association - October 42- Future Girls Association for Development - Cairo. 43- Frasis Charitable Association for Society's Development - Gharbia 44- Al Hayat Association in Zifta- Gharbia 45- The Forum of Dialogue and Partnership for Development - Giza 46- Future Association for Development - Aswan 47- The Egyptian Association for Community Participation Enhancement - Fayuom 48- Al Fayoum Renaissance Association - Fayuom 49- The Association of the interested people in education and development – Fayuom 50- Al Tanweer Centre for Development and Human Rights - Giza 51- The Egyptian Organization for Human Rights – Cairo 52- Al Mahrousa Center – Cairo 53- Nama'a Association for Development and Human Rights – Al Gharbia 54- The Arab Program for Human Rights Activists – Cairo 55- Association For the Development and Enhancement of Women – Cairo 56- Hawaa Future Association – Giza 57- Ismailia Generations for Development Association – Ismailia 58- Haq Center for Democracy and Human Rights – Cairo 59- Association for the Support and Development of Education – Giza 60- World Without Borders Association for Human Rights - Cairo 61- New Fustat Association- Cairo 62- Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights- Cairo 63- Egyptian Association for Disseminating & Developing Legal Awareness- Giza
quote: Not that being an ex model in anyway justifies sexual assault.
I agree
quote: Not that being an ex model makes you a less credible journalist
I disagree. In some cases, It does mean something.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
From the UK.
Come on, Tareq. I can tell you that here in the UK, many, many women like to buy clothing online or mail order. We won't buy the clothes if we can't see what they look like on. Being a swimwear model is not the same as being a glamour model here. I don't think so anyway.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8: Any reason why an attractive or even boldly beautiful woman shouldnt strive or pursue a career other than being a model?
My point was that both Careers does not match. and I do not know the lady to tell you she is credible or not. She might be used by others for such a story.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: From the UK.
Come on, Tareq. I can tell you that here in the UK, many, many women like to buy clothing online or mail order. We won't buy the clothes if we can't see what they look like on. Being a swimwear model is not the same as being a glamour model here. I don't think so anyway.
Will you work as a model, one day? or will you let your sister or daughter or mother work so?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Here is another journalist saying she too was attacked in Tahrir by a mob on the same night.
I have a brother, and if he wants to, no problem Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
@Tareq - modelling is very highly paid - why go and fit pieces to circuit boards for national minimum wages when you can prance around in clothes for more money in one day than a factory worker earns in a few months?
I don't necessarily agree with that (as there's no chance anyone is going to pay me £'000s to prance around in clothes for a day!) but that is the way of the world. Salary paid is often inversely proportional to the value of the work to society.
In the UK modelling is not considered a shameful profession unless you are modelling clothes made of animal fur.
There is a distinction between swimwear modelling and glamour modelling.
Swim wear modelling is exactly what it says and no problem at all. The women (and men) are wearing what they would wear at the seaside or pool.
Glamour modelling is soft porn and designed to titillate.
And yes, you can both do that and have a 'sensible' career.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: From the UK.
Come on, Tareq. I can tell you that here in the UK, many, many women like to buy clothing online or mail order. We won't buy the clothes if we can't see what they look like on. Being a swimwear model is not the same as being a glamour model here. I don't think so anyway.
Will you work as a model, one day? or will you let your sister or daughter or mother work so?
What would be the problem to work as a model?And why on Earth if a woman,girl or lady has a career-profession and wishes to have another one as side job or whatever,should they match? Seriously,you are talking as a fundi and not as a young,well travelled guy. Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I have a brother, and if he wants to, no problem
I did not ask about your bro? Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I have a brother, and if he wants to, no problem
I did not ask about your bro?
Yes, but men and women are EQUAL. So if it goes for one it goes for the other too. If a woman can be a model, so can a man. If a man can be an astronaut, so can a woman.
The only thing men can't do that women can is get pregnant and have a baby.
The only thing men can do that women can't is produce sperm.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Hmmm... Ok. I don't have a sister or a daughter and I don't feel it's my place, ever, to tell my mother what to do.
I would not be allowed to as I am contractually bound by my employers not to moonlight whatever the vocation.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Same Question to Shanta Will you work as a model, one day? or will you let your sister or daughter or mother work so?
I have just read that Mubarak reveals his money to the government. and It says that he used to reveal his money year by year to the goverhnment.
Posted by D_Oro (Member # 17954) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I have a brother, and if he wants to, no problem
No problem if he wants to what? Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I have a brother, and if he wants to, no problem
No problem if he wants to what?
model Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
@Tareq I would love to work as a model and get paid £10000 for a day's work but ain't noone gonna pay me ;(
If my sister or mother or daughter if I had one wanted to, yes, why not? If my male relations wanted to why not?
It is not a bad profession which you seem to think it is. It's just putting odd-looking clothes on and having your photo taken.
Anyway, this is moving considerably off topic now so I shall stop commenting on this now!
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: How can Ezz face corruption charges when Gamal isn’t? The entire world know they’re linked and associated in most dealings.
I was asking the same question last night to hubby Exiiled, and he said that it will be much harder to go after Gamal since he had no official position in the regime, was only a member of the NDP. Just his opinion This must be extremely frustrating for many. [/QB]
Your hubby's opinion is as good as everyone else's. It is all frustrating and it is all puzzling. I am of the belief that the system can only truly change when ALL remnants of the regime are eliminated. And as harsh as that may sound, I do not mean executions, but rather fair trials, and those found complicit must refrain from any participation in politics, for life.
Hosni Mubarak Must Be Held Accountable Gamal Mubarak Must Be Held Accountable
There is a lot of dirt on each and every member of the Mubarak family, but these two, they stand out. Inexcusable crimes of corruption.
Including Mubarak and his son Gamal and the 3 ministers that were recently charged, and also Ahmed Ezz. We are talking about 6 of the most 500 richest me on earth. These are not natural Tycoons, they are not whiz-kids, they are thieves!
I ask everyone here:
The Interior Minister is worth 1.3 billion The Tourism Minister is worth 2+ billion The Housing Minister is worth 1.8 billion
Which other country has a ministry of billionaires? What does that say about Hosni Mubarak when 40% of his people were living on $2 a day or less.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
so shanta, Have you thought why they will pay £10000 for a one who works as a model?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: so shanta, Have you thought why they will pay £10000 for a one who works as a model?
Last comment on this topic by me:
Yes, it is because the clothes companies expect to make a heck of a lot more money because Naomi or Claudia or whoever it is these days is seen in their clothes.
I think you are trying to suggest that it is prostitution and has some relation to sexual favours, it is not.
If you saw most British prostitutes, they certainly wouldn't make modelling careers, a lot of them are drug-addled very sorry looking types.
Anyway, enough. Off topic now.
If you want to debate this subject in more detail, please make a new thread - maybe something like Differences in Attitudes to Female Careers between Egypt and Wherever.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
You guys seeing what's happening in Libya. Madman unleashed helicopters against his people. Al-Khalifa in Bahrain sending Pakistani and Indian riot police against Bahrani citizens. Oh yeah, there are reports that some Bahrani riot police are actually Syrians. That's how those small Gulf states operate. They hire mercenaries.
The wickedness of Arab dictators is on full display on CNN. USA bought Arab dictators. You know what they call Obama in Egypt? It's never been mentioned not even once on ES. Black Bush just translate it in Arabic.
You know some beautiful things that arised after Jan25 and after Feb11?
Arab writers online are using their real names and not their pen names. Did you know that? Most people don't even know the significance. It's actually huge. Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I agree with you Monkey regarding the situation of the women.
However, this story is about more than a case of sexual harassment/rape of an individual.
Commments by normal everyday readers of the press are using this incident to say:
(1) Egyptians are nothing but brutish animals (2) This proves that they are unfit for democracy (3) This is an unsafe country to travel in (4) All Egyptian men are abusers (5) It's all because of Islam and that's what we should expect to happen in the UK if we kowtow to muslims and so on and so forth.
I was spitting feathers after reading the Daily Mail readers comments - and unfortunately the Daily Mail never ever publish any comments I ever make (even though I promise you that they are non-inflammatory and polite!)
Shanta...please give up reading the Mail. They hardly touched the revolution in their so called news. Why do they keep putting down Egypt.....On another board I noticed similar negative remarks being made...quoting the Mail....They guy was Jewish....the Mails money comes from the Jewish point of view. All they could think about when the revolution was on .....was what about Israel......nothing about give the people their freedom and choice. I now don't read the mail....The Independant is much more objective
In no way am I religious, but I have come across some people in Egypt quick to blame Israel when bad things happen.......Reading the Mail reminds me of that attitude
Good luck the new Egypt
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I know PC - I hate the Daily Mail - unfortunately it is very popular with normal Brits who might be thinking of coming here on holiday and reflects the British mindset in many cases! It is as well to know what you are up against!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
It seems things are quieting down today in Egypt Far less strikes going on, banks opened, Pyramids opened, talk of opening stock market on Tuesday...yeah....all good news!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
we've been through or are still going through the 'chaos' when many new ideas are generated - do we have a feel yet for the 'transforming idea'?
Chaos, Stress, and Creativity
Chaos is stressful. The stress is our response to a Foreign Element, an indication that one of our significant assumptions differs from reality. We may experience the stress as pain, fear, confusion, urgency, excitement. Whatever the emotion, the purpose of the stress is to motivate us to make sense of what is going on and figure out how to respond effectively. Up to a point, the greater the stress, the greater our motivation to resolve the chaos.
When we are in Chaos, we are uncertain about what we can do to make things better. We try a variety of responses. We do more of what we have been doing, or less. We try behaviors that worked at some other time and place. We try things we have never done before, hoping that something, anything, will work. We search frantically for information, though we are uncertain about what information will help us. We yell, or cry, or shut down, or run away. We may try each of these things, one after another. Our behavior becomes very unpredictable.
To express this in a different way, we become very creative. Our stress jolts us into extraordinary creativity. We generate a great variety of possible things to do, and we try them.
Unfortunately, most of our ideas and behaviors do not help, and some of them make things worse. We continue because each new idea, each new behavior is potentially a Transforming Idea. Eventually, some behavior, some idea will work. But we don’t know which one until we try, so we try many different things.
The purpose of Chaos is to generate a Transforming Idea.
That's great news Laura. Hopefully the British embassy will be opening soon too.
I wish someone would want me as a model... Oh wait, I have a degree in journalism so I guess I can't *sigh*
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: You guys seeing what's happening in Libya. Madman unleashed helicopters against his people. Al-Khalifa in Bahrain sending Pakistani and Indian riot police against Bahrani citizens. Oh yeah, there are reports that some Bahrani riot police are actually Syrians. That's how those small Gulf states operate. They hire mercenaries.
The wickedness of Arab dictators is on full display on CNN. USA bought Arab dictators. You know what they call Obama in Egypt? It's never been mentioned not even once on ES.Black Bush just translate it in Arabic.
You know some beautiful things that arised after Jan25 and after Feb11?
Arab writers online are using their real names and not their pen names. Did you know that? Most people don't even know the significance. It's actually huge.
Hey I did Exiiled, but it seems so many other things are on ppl's minds these days. It's like just about every country in the region is desperately trying to achieve what Tunisia and Egypt did...may God be with them...the murdering of innocent civilians that is taking place is just horrific
posted 18 February, 2011 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: How have things been in Tahrir today? Anyone been? Anyone been following closely? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know Shanta, it seems AJE is being dominated today of the news by the BLOODBATH going on in surrounding countries. Incredibly sad
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: So where do you think we are on the graph:
we've been through or are still going through the 'chaos' when many new ideas are generated - do we have a feel yet for the 'transforming idea'?
Chaos, Stress, and Creativity
Chaos is stressful. The stress is our response to a Foreign Element, an indication that one of our significant assumptions differs from reality. We may experience the stress as pain, fear, confusion, urgency, excitement. Whatever the emotion, the purpose of the stress is to motivate us to make sense of what is going on and figure out how to respond effectively. Up to a point, the greater the stress, the greater our motivation to resolve the chaos.
When we are in Chaos, we are uncertain about what we can do to make things better. We try a variety of responses. We do more of what we have been doing, or less. We try behaviors that worked at some other time and place. We try things we have never done before, hoping that something, anything, will work. We search frantically for information, though we are uncertain about what information will help us. We yell, or cry, or shut down, or run away. We may try each of these things, one after another. Our behavior becomes very unpredictable.
To express this in a different way, we become very creative. Our stress jolts us into extraordinary creativity. We generate a great variety of possible things to do, and we try them.
Unfortunately, most of our ideas and behaviors do not help, and some of them make things worse. We continue because each new idea, each new behavior is potentially a Transforming Idea. Eventually, some behavior, some idea will work. But we don’t know which one until we try, so we try many different things.
The purpose of Chaos is to generate a Transforming Idea.
Presently – Transforming Idea. Inevitably: New Status Quo. Now what the hell is the rest of the text supposed to be about!
Here is a reality check! The Arab youth are storming the Middle East. They will take it. But relax, Egypt is under control, it's safe, schools are re-opening, foreign students are returning, it's all good. And they say Arabs are savages.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: That's great news Laura. Hopefully the British embassy will be opening soon too.
I wish someone would want me as a model... Oh wait, I have a degree in journalism so I guess I can't *sigh*
Love it Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: The Arab youth are storming the Middle East. They will take it. But relax, Egypt is under control, it's safe, schools are re-opening, foreign students are returning, it's all good. And they say Arabs are savages.
See I don't think they will. I don't think everywhere is quite like Egypt. Some of those countries don't allow the press in, let alone give two hoots about what the rest of the world thinks. There is no US aid to tie their hands behind their backs with. I'm sorry to say I don't think there will be a unanimous happy ending.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
@Exiled - the rest of the text is about how the chaotic phase is when lots of creative new ideas come about. We can see this in the dozens and dozens of groups that are making facebook pages and probably other places too - figuring out what they want, their focus and stuff. Most will fail, but eventually some will stick. A bit like punk rock basically - hundreds of crappy bands that fell by the way side and a few good ones like Clash and Stranglers or whatever came through it. I hope there is a good future for all the countries, but fear it may take a lot more bloodshed and violence in some of them. I don't think they built up the grassroots support first. Someone posted a really good link on here a few days ago about how to do that WITHOUT relying on the net generation - so the Egyptians had built up a 'critical mass' before they began their protests which I'm not sure has happened elsewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: The Arab youth are storming the Middle East. They will take it. But relax, Egypt is under control, it's safe, schools are re-opening, foreign students are returning, it's all good. And they say Arabs are savages.
See I don't think they will. I don't think everywhere is quite like Egypt. Some of those countries don't allow the press in, let alone give two hoots about what the rest of the world thinks. There is no US aid to tie their hands behind their backs with. I'm sorry to say I don't think there will be a unanimous happy ending.
A week ago who would have thought that Bahrain would shake. Everyone was guessing Algeria, Yemen and Syria.
Now it's Bahrain of all nations at the forefront, along with Libya and ever present Yemen.
I do agree with you that these nations especially Yemen and Libya greatly differ from Egypt. I know they are much more brutal. Yes press is limited and they are cut off from the outside world, these revolutions won't be won from the outside, not via US/UK/EU ….. no. They will be won by local blood.
The US/UK/EU will release their pathetic releases, and it's all BS. The revolution in Libya won't end when the US says Stop. It will end when the Libyans including military can't stomach more Libyan deaths. When they say it is enough. When they say KHALAAAAS. When they say it's time for Qaddafi to step down.
Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time. Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Mmmm... I just remember when I was a kid seeing Tiananmen Square happen... And there have been moments in the Egyptian revolution where it's felt like it could have gone two ways. I mean, I do remember the Berlin wall falling and of course that was great, but it doesn't always pan out that way.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Mmmm... I just remember when I was a kid seeing Tiananmen Square happen... And there have been moments in the Egyptian revolution where it's felt like it could have gone two ways. I mean, I do remember the Berlin wall falling and of course that was great, but it doesn't always pan out that way.
At the end of the day you and I are just meagre souls if you think about it. You bet against the masses, I bet they succeed. And time will tell.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Oh I don't bet against them. That would be tantemount to saying I want them to fail and no, I'd get no pleasure from that.
I just feel that other countries have different setups, priorities and different agendas, but really, I hope you are right.
I have to say though, I wonder about it all. Tunisia had a fresh bout of rioting recently when the people voiced their anger that half of the previous ministers were still in their jobs. I STILL find it sus that Mubarak is being protected. Why is he being let off the hook? I don't quite buy that everything's changed. Not yet. But time will tell.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
So Guys, How much Ms swimwear journalist will take as compensation from CBS news?
according to what is apparent in news
1- she was detained with no IV infusion 2- she was kicked out of the country and then booked a ticket back and she was raped.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: So Guys, How much Ms swimwear journalist will take as compensation from CBS news?
according to what is apparent in news
1- she was detained with no IV infusion 2- she was kicked out of the country and then booked a ticket back and she was raped.
(insult removed)
[ 21. February 2011, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Shanta Gdeeda ]
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I have just read that Ms clinton is making a discussion with Egyptian Youth in Facebook.
So Any one have any idea what is going on? Why does she care? I have also found out that america is paying Egypt about 200 millions USD in days.
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
where did you hear that Tareq ?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: So Guys, How much Ms swimwear journalist will take as compensation from CBS news?
according to what is apparent in news
1- she was detained with no IV infusion 2- she was kicked out of the country and then booked a ticket back and she was raped.
You're sick.
you live in a new era. What you see in TV can be 10% of the reality. A lot of journalists lie to make a living.
Call me sick or whatever.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Oh I don't bet against them. That would be tantemount to saying I want them to fail and no, I'd get no pleasure from that.
I just feel that other countries have different setups, priorities and different agendas, but really, I hope you are right.
I have to say though, I wonder about it all. Tunisia had a fresh bout of rioting recently when the people voiced their anger that half of the previous ministers were still in their jobs. I STILL find it sus that Mubarak is being protected. Why is he being let off the hook? I don't quite buy that everything's changed. Not yet. But time will tell.
In time all your suspicions concerning Tunisia and Egypt will be answered. Just have to wait I guess. Personally as I pointed out in the previous thread I am optimistic that a Arab Revolution is a brewing.
Very hopeful that Egypt and Tunisia will both be free. Would you bet your house that each of these countries won't be free? Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ah you are a tinker, Exiiled. Stop trying to put words in my mouth
Again, love it if it happened. But it all seemed suspiciously easy with Egypt. Ok, easy is the wrong word. I mean the u-turn was so sudden. One minute Mr M would step down over his dead body, next... well alrighty then, oh, ok... I don't see all tyranical dictators suddenly deciding to roll over in quite the same way. I think there was a lot more to it than we know now, or will ever. Save for another Wikileaks disclosure.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: where did you hear that Tareq ?
I have just read it in an egyptian site and about the money US is giving I read it in aljazeera arabic 2 days ago
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Ah you are a tinker, Exiiled. Stop trying to put words in my mouth
Again, love it if it happened. But it all seemed suspiciously easy with Egypt. One minute Mr M would step down over his dead body, next... well alrighty then, oh, ok... I don't see all tyranical dictators suddenly deciding to roll over in quite the same way.
I'm not tinkering anything, but if I was I would be tinkering your ass of the fence. Think positive, think glass half full. You have to admit life is much more unpredictable, the status quo is just not there anymore. You don't have the foresight to see that?!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: .
2 re-formation of the committee charged with amending the constitution to include all political and social spectrum of women and men. ...
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this one. This is not a popularity contest, it's a highly technical issue. Ammending the constitution requires some of the great legal minds in Egypt, a panel of experts.
.............
And I have to disagree with you, Amoun! Please see below petition signed by 63 different organizations:
The Constitutional committee starts working while neglecting and excluding female legal experts
The institutions and organizations below have signed this statement in disapproval of the criteria and formation of the Constitutional Committee, whereby the committee does not include a single female expert. Advancing with a committee like this, triggers fears and suspicions with regards to the future of Egypt and the transitional phase which Egypt is currently witnessing after the 25th of January Revolution. This issue poses a critical question with regards to democracy and the main aims of the revolution which were initially spelled out as equality, freedom, democracy and participation of all citizens. We are hereby questioning the criteria according to which the members of the constitutional committee are chosen; are they based on political criteria or on values of equality and justice as spelled out by the revolution? If the criteria are based on efficiency and integrity, then why are female legal experts excluded despite the fact that Egypt is rich with lots of female experts in constitutions whether in the Supreme Constitutional Court or the Faculties of Law. We believe that as Egyptian women largely and equally participated in the revolution with Egyptian men and some of them have been jailed and still lost while others have even martyred, they have the right to participate in building the New Egyptian State on the simple basis of citizenship. Nevertheless, we strongly have confidence in the discretion of the Military Council in guiding Egypt towards democracy. Hence, we are making the statement today to stress on the values of citizenship and participation of women, specifically in the Constitutional Committee at the moment.
....................
We'll have to agree to disagree then citizen, nothing wrong with that. It seems to me that some people are adamant on turning this into male/female issue. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with that. It's about merit, and I don't believe it's about political views. The members of the committe are highly respected in the legal profession and in society in general. Some of them have suggested constitutional reform many years ago and have written books about it. Two points I'd like to raise here: 1- Aren't there women legal experts? are women less capable? In my view, the answer is no to both. No women are not less capable, and unfortunately (in my view) there aren't enough female legal experts to choose from, or they are not well-known enough to be trusted by the population at large (of course this doesn't mean they aren't trustworthy, it only means that at this interim stage trust (or perceived trust) is very important. Now the reason I'm saying there aren't enough female legal experts to choose from is for the simple fact (read objective) that there aren't that many women judges in Egypt.
2-My second point is about those endorsing the statement. I have to admit that I haven't gone through the whole list of 63 undersigned, but looking at the top 20, none of them is a political party, a public body (e.g. faculty of law or lawyers syndicate) or even representatives of the youth movement. So, who do they represent? I'm not necessarily saying they're not genuine in their concerns. What I'm saying is that they're acting as a divisive force at a time when we need unity. They're fighting an imaginary battle, Don Quexote windmills. If I were to be cynical, I'd say they're pleasing their funders (talk about conspiracy theory, lol, we Egyptians can't seem to get rid of it!).
Like Shanta said, this is my last post on the topic. I've said all what I want to say. (I agree with Shanta, and I agree with Nick as well)
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I'm not tinkering anything, but if I was I would be tinkering your ass of the fence. Think positive, think glass half full. You have to admit life is much more unpredictable, the status quo is just not there anymore. You don't have the foresight to see that?!
It's an English expression - not to say you're tinkering as such - more mischeivous with my words.
Nah, I don't think I'm on the fence really. I think in an ideal world, every country deserves democracy. But we don't live in an ideal world. Look at China. What, a conservative estimate would be 3,000 protesting students killed, and 22 years later nothing's changed.
But yes, life is unpredictable, and comparing Libya to China is comparing chalk to cheese. There is no precedent to what's going on in the ME right now. But what worked for Tunisia and Egypt may not be the same for Libya, Jordan, Bahrain and the Yemen. And if we get on to Saudi and UAE, Iran, Iraq... This is like the whole of Europe destabilised and in political turmoil... Just after a global recession/depression. We're moving from positive and exciting to out and out scary.
But yes, democracy is their right so more power to them.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [ Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time.
I agree, Libya will fall. It's almost inevitable. Dictators don't seem to learn from history, even very recent history, like a few weeks ago!! Bahrain doesn't surprise me because there's systemic injustice there. My understanding is that the majority of the population are Shia muslims while the ruling elite are Sunnis. I'm told by Bahrainis that the Shia'ites don't get their rights. Unless the king makes true reform, there's likely to be major unrest. The problem with Bahrain is that it's a testbed for the rest of the gulf states because all of them have Shia minorities who are (allegedly) discriminated against. I think Jordan and Morroco will survive if they implement true reforms. My understanding is that in both countries, people are not against the king a such but the ruling system. Syria seems to be under control. Can't predict much about Algeria, it might go either way.
Amoun, the political anal-ist, lol
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
, and comparing Libya to China is comparing chalk to cheese.
when Qaddafi visited China in the 1980's the Chinese premier asked him about the population of Libya to which Qaddafi answered proudly in his crazy way of turning and tilting his head "two million". The Chinese premier replied by asking "why didn't you bring them with you?"
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: where did you hear that Tareq ?
I have just read it in an egyptian site and about the money US is giving I read it in aljazeera arabic 2 days ago
then post the hyperlinks to the webpages stating exactly that.
Otherwise if your claims cannot be verified you are rumormongering.
"this" has been in the west for 2 decades and I must say I agree with him about 85% of the time. I agree with him whole heartedly this time as well.
you on the otherhand is the perfect example of why a psychological test needs to be included in visas to the west, and as a requirement for marriage at the MOJ.
Lara Logan was never a swimsuit model, she's a journals with excellent credentials.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
NO Hyperlinks
Consider what I say rumours.
Bye
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I was wondering - what attitudes do you think people need in a democracy and what do you think will be hardest for Egyptians?
EG in the UK thankfully we did away with automatic deference to someone just because they have a particular unearned social status. People at the top have to EARN respect not just get given it because they are rich or got there via cronyism or nepotism (British equivalent of wasta).
Having seen some of the sentimentality re the Ancien Regime going around - the rough and tumble of democratic politics where politicians are routinely insulted, criticized and the butt of jokes, might that be a little hard for some Egyptians to stomach? How can you transition to that if you would want to?
Moving from a nepotocracy to a meritocracy(notionally though we all know that 'old school tie' 'old boys' network' 'cronyism' etc are rife at the top of many companies and organisations) - when the person you are reporting to came from a 'lower' social status than yourself in the general working environment.
(Not saying everything about the UK system is great - the one place where we do still exhibit unearned deference is regarding media celebrities.)
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [ Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time.
I agree, Libya will fall. It's almost inevitable. Dictators don't seem to learn from history, even very recent history, like a few weeks ago!! Bahrain doesn't surprise me because there's systemic injustice there. My understanding is that the majority of the population are Shia muslims while the ruling elite are Sunnis. I'm told by Bahrainis that the Shia'ites don't get their rights. Unless the king makes true reform, there's likely to be major unrest. The problem with Bahrain is that it's a testbed for the rest of the gulf states because all of them have Shia minorities who are (allegedly) discriminated against. I think Jordan and Morroco will survive if they implement true reforms. My understanding is that in both countries, people are not against the king a such but the ruling system. Syria seems to be under control. Can't predict much about Algeria, it might go either way.
Amoun, the political anal-ist, lol
Did anyone watch Gaddafi's son rant and rave through a speach on TV last night? He gave out threats, blackmail, offered to change flag, blamed everyone from the outside world, threatened civil war. Then said people would need a passport to travel from East to West Lybya.....he just waffeled for 40 mins waving his hands around.......a dictator in training... Control freak
No wonder Libyan's want to be free. Good luck the people
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
A convoy leaving Cairo at 4pm,heading to #Libya ,carries medical supplies and essentials.If anyone wants to help:+20109999208 #Egypt #Feb17
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [ Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time.
I agree, Libya will fall. It's almost inevitable. Dictators don't seem to learn from history, even very recent history, like a few weeks ago!! Bahrain doesn't surprise me because there's systemic injustice there. My understanding is that the majority of the population are Shia muslims while the ruling elite are Sunnis. I'm told by Bahrainis that the Shia'ites don't get their rights. Unless the king makes true reform, there's likely to be major unrest. The problem with Bahrain is that it's a testbed for the rest of the gulf states because all of them have Shia minorities who are (allegedly) discriminated against. I think Jordan and Morroco will survive if they implement true reforms. My understanding is that in both countries, people are not against the king a such but the ruling system. Syria seems to be under control. Can't predict much about Algeria, it might go either way.
Amoun, the political anal-ist, lol
Yes that's exactly the situation in Bahrain. Despite being the majority that are not adequately represented. The current system heavily favors sunnis across the board, including higher level jobs.
I too think Jordan can be salvaged. It is technically a constitutional monarchy but a closer look reveals that the King rules by decree. There is a parliament that are voted in by the people, but the King appoints all Ministers. Usually he'll appoint a Prime Minister and then asks the PM to form a government. Furthermore the king appoints each and every Senator in the the senate.
The demands are simple:
1.)The people want to vote for the Prime Minister
2.)Balanced electorate. As of now it is unbalanced, a province that may have only 100,000 people may have larger representation in parliament than a province of 1,000,000. This was formulated to prevent Palestinians from assuming to much control in parliament. The political structure of Jordan has choke holds throughout the entire system.
Morocco I believe will fall. This will be accelerated after Libya falls. We're on the verge of witness a third regime fall in North Africa. It is only a matter of time before Algeria and Morocco falls as well. The King in Morrocco is afraid of his own police and military, too the point that lower level police are only allowed 5 bullets and they must be accounted for whenever asked. There are reports that the military is infiltrated by opposition elements and are awaiting the opportunity.
Syria As you mentioned is under tight control, with over 20 security departments and over 300,000 informants. There is a weakness though, and that is the higher hierarchy of ruling Baathist are Alaywiya, while the majority of the people are not. The people know this and the government knows this too. Their strong base is Latatika in the north west of the country, it is also the most beautiful city in Syria as it is favored by the regime. We could very well see the lower ranks of the military siding with the people. These soldiers will only have the courage when they see people mass protesting. And that the dilemma, the Syrian regime is designed to eliminate such dissident before it grows and gains momentum.
I guess all we can do is wait, but the rate at which events are unfolding is overwhelming.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I have not been able to get on AJE youtube for several days now. Is anyone else having this problem?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
مفاجأة: أبو الغيط الوزير الوحيد الذي لايزال يحتفظ بصورة لمبارك في مكتب
في موقف يتسق تماما مع سلوك أحمد أبو الغيط السياسي وموقفه المناهض لثورة 25 يناير، قالت مصادر أن اللقاء الذي جمع بين وكيل وزارة الخارجية الأمريكية للشؤون السياسية، ويليام بيرنز وأحمد أبو الغيط وزير الخارجية يوم الاثنين، كشف عن مفاجأة تتمثل في احتفاظ أبو الغيط بصورة مقاس "30*40" للرئيس السابق حسني مبارك ويضعها في مكان بارز في مكتبه وكأن الرئيس المخلوع لايزال رئيسا يمارس صلاحياته ويتلقي أبو الغيط التعليمات منه.
ورغم أن مجلس الوزراء أزاح صورة الرئيس السابق مبارك من مقر المجلس ووضع بدلا منها صورة بها لفظ الجلالة، وهو نفس الأمر الذي حدث في العديد من المؤسسات التابعة للقوات المسلحة، يبدو اصرار أحمد أبو الغيط على الاحتفاظ بصورة مبارك وهو رئيس مخلوع أمر يثير التساؤلات وبحاجة لمعرفة هل أبو الغيط لا يعترف بثورة 25 يناير؟ ولا يعترف بنتائجها التي كان أولها هو إزاحة مبارك عن السلطة؟ ومن أين إذن يتلق أبو الغيط التعليمات الآن من المجلس العسكري الأعلي أم من رئيس سابق لاتزال صورته معلقة في مكتبه؟
Hmm, who is he going to talk to? There's nobody who represents the people. Whoever he'll speak to is in a temporary position. I don't think this is the right time for foreign leaders to visit Egypt, let the dust settle first then come. If it's absolutely imperative that they talk with someone in Egypt, then send someone less senior than the prime minister, maybe the foreign secretary or some junior foreign office minister.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
"Although Tora Prison is known to be the detention facility for celebrities, it appears uncomfortable for former ministers Habib al-Addly, Ahmed al-Maghraby, Zoheir Garrana and former ruling party official and business tycoon Ahmed Ezz. The big four are jailed pending investigation in charges of corruption.
They asked for TV sets and satellite receivers in their cells, but the administration refused their requests.
Ezz asked that his cell floor be covered with ceramics, which was also rejected.
Sources said that whereas the three ministers maintained high morale, Ezz seemed depressed."
quote:Originally posted by Laura: "Although Tora Prison is known to be the detention facility for celebrities, it appears uncomfortable for former ministers Habib al-Addly, Ahmed al-Maghraby, Zoheir Garrana and former ruling party official and business tycoon Ahmed Ezz. The big four are jailed pending investigation in charges of corruption.
They asked for TV sets and satellite receivers in their cells, but the administration refused their requests.
Ezz asked that his cell floor be covered with ceramics, which was also rejected.
Sources said that whereas the three ministers maintained high morale, Ezz seemed depressed."
I had heard something about this. My ex told me about Ezz, he was really excited about this.
Also I have heard over the radio BBC (don't know if there is any truth) that early steps to charging babaMu for corruption are in the works.
If Ezz is already in prison, good God could babaMu be next?
This is a question, speculation, not stating fact Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Personally, I don't think they will go after Mubarak. Just a gut feeling. Dragging the obviously physically ill (as well as mentally ill) fool into jail might evoke some sympathy in some I think.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: If Ezz is already in prison, good God could babaMu be next?
This is a question, speculation, not stating fact
Looks like you may be right. Aljazeera just reported the transitional government have ordered Mubarak's assets be frozen.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Damn. I wish there was a translation but I think I get it:
This advice has been updated with new amendments to the Travel Summary and the Safety and Security - Political Situation section. We no longer advise against all but essential travel to Cairo (all four governorates, including Giza), Alexandria, and Suez. There are no restrictions in this travel advice on travel to Egypt.
مفاجأة: مجند بالقوات المسلحة هو مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي دعا لثورة 25 يناير
كشف د.شادي الغزالي حرب عضو ائتلاف ثورة 25 يناير عن مفاجأة مدوية بأن مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي كان أول من دعا للخروج في مظاهرات يوم 25 يناير، هو الآن مجند في القوات المسلحة ويدعى "عبد الرحمن منصور".
وأضاف حرب في تصريحات لبرنامج العاشرة مساء بأن "عبد الرحمن منصور" كان صاحب الفكر السياسي وراء جروب كلنا خالد سعيد ودعوة الخروج في مظاهرات حاشدة تطالب باسقاط نظام الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك، وأن الناشط وائل غنيم كان مسئول الجانب التقني في الجروب.
وقال حرب- في حضور ثلاثة من أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة- أن ائتلاف الثورة اخفى اسم عبد الرحمن منصور طوال هذه الفترة بسبب حساسية موقفه كونه أصبح مجندا في القوات المسلحة منذ يوم 17 يناير الماضي أي قبل الثورة بثمانية أيام فقط، وطالب حرب أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة عدم اتخاذ أي إجراء تجاه منصور وهو أمر كان الرد عليه من قبل أعضاء المجلس بأن الفيصل في ذلك هل ما قام به لمصلحة الوطن أم لا، مؤكدين أن مافعله هو لمصلحة الوطن بكل تأكيد، كما أكد أعضاء المجلس.
@Amoun - just noticed you posted about this up the thread about.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
According to Education Ministry records, 388 schools were named after former President Hosni Mubarak, 160 were named after his wife Suzan, and one school was named after his son Gamal during Mubarak’s 30-year rule.
“These schools should now be named after those who died in the 25 January revolution,” said education expert Kamal Mogheith. “We must protect our children from hypocrisy.”
Bravo!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: مفاجأة: مجند بالقوات المسلحة هو مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي دعا لثورة 25 يناير
كشف د.شادي الغزالي حرب عضو ائتلاف ثورة 25 يناير عن مفاجأة مدوية بأن مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي كان أول من دعا للخروج في مظاهرات يوم 25 يناير، هو الآن مجند في القوات المسلحة ويدعى "عبد الرحمن منصور".
وأضاف حرب في تصريحات لبرنامج العاشرة مساء بأن "عبد الرحمن منصور" كان صاحب الفكر السياسي وراء جروب كلنا خالد سعيد ودعوة الخروج في مظاهرات حاشدة تطالب باسقاط نظام الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك، وأن الناشط وائل غنيم كان مسئول الجانب التقني في الجروب.
وقال حرب- في حضور ثلاثة من أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة- أن ائتلاف الثورة اخفى اسم عبد الرحمن منصور طوال هذه الفترة بسبب حساسية موقفه كونه أصبح مجندا في القوات المسلحة منذ يوم 17 يناير الماضي أي قبل الثورة بثمانية أيام فقط، وطالب حرب أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة عدم اتخاذ أي إجراء تجاه منصور وهو أمر كان الرد عليه من قبل أعضاء المجلس بأن الفيصل في ذلك هل ما قام به لمصلحة الوطن أم لا، مؤكدين أن مافعله هو لمصلحة الوطن بكل تأكيد، كما أكد أعضاء المجلس.
It doesn't surprise me really. I'm sure a lot of people will claim they started the revolution or were leaders, motivators, making tea for the leaders, buying bathroom tissue for the leaders to wipe their bums, etc, etc. We've already seen a few people in the media interviewed as leaders. I've posted about that earlier. The fact remains that none of them has been democratically elected (to the best of my knowledge). If you're an instigator of an event, does that make you it's leader? I don't know.
Hey, here's the real surprise, you know what? Hosni Mubarak is the one who started the revolution because he wanted to have something to his name. The first air strike wasn't good enough an achievement, he wanted to have his own revolution like Nasser. Spread the word!
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by Tareq:
quote:Originally posted by Chef Mick: where did you hear that Tareq ?
I have just read it in an egyptian site and about the money US is giving I read it in aljazeera arabic 2 days ago
then post the hyperlinks to the webpages stating exactly that.
Otherwise if your claims cannot be verified you are rumormongering.
"this" has been in the west for 2 decades and I must say I agree with him about 85% of the time. I agree with him whole heartedly this time as well.
you on the otherhand is the perfect example of why a psychological test needs to be included in visas to the west, and as a requirement for marriage at the MOJ.
Lara Logan was never a swimsuit model, she's a journals with excellent credentials.
ES needs a like button.
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [ Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time.
I agree, Libya will fall. It's almost inevitable. Dictators don't seem to learn from history, even very recent history, like a few weeks ago!! Bahrain doesn't surprise me because there's systemic injustice there. My understanding is that the majority of the population are Shia muslims while the ruling elite are Sunnis. I'm told by Bahrainis that the Shia'ites don't get their rights. Unless the king makes true reform, there's likely to be major unrest. The problem with Bahrain is that it's a testbed for the rest of the gulf states because all of them have Shia minorities who are (allegedly) discriminated against. I think Jordan and Morroco will survive if they implement true reforms. My understanding is that in both countries, people are not against the king a such but the ruling system. Syria seems to be under control. Can't predict much about Algeria, it might go either way.
Amoun, the political anal-ist, lol
Did anyone watch Gaddafi's son rant and rave through a speach on TV last night? He gave out threats, blackmail, offered to change flag, blamed everyone from the outside world, threatened civil war. Then said people would need a passport to travel from East to West Lybya.....he just waffeled for 40 mins waving his hands around.......a dictator in training... Control freak
No wonder Libyan's want to be free. Good luck the people
What will be most difficult for Egyptians is the idea of EQUALITY - that each voice, and vote, has the same value - that the dark skinned Nubian, the baweb's daughter, and the Christian shop keeper all have the same right to express their opinion at the polling booth as the wealthy businessman living in a villa in 6 October.
THIS, I believe, will be Egypt's challenge.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I agree with you Stayingput. You know, I think Wael Ghonim's great with all he's done, but a couple of times he's said things which made me uneasy. First he was talking about the soldiers who were holding him - that he's middle class so they weren't the sort of people he could ever hold a conversation with (?) Second about Khaled Saeed - that he was middle class too so he could relate to him. He could have been his brother.
Dunno. Not sure how well those who do earn less than $2 a day are going to be represented.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by stayingput: What will be most difficult for Egyptians is the idea of EQUALITY - that each voice, and vote, has the same value - that the dark skinned Nubian, the baweb's daughter, and the Christian shop keeper all have the same right to express their opinion at the polling booth as the wealthy businessman living in a villa in 6 October.
THIS, I believe, will be Egypt's challenge.
I completely disagree. You can't possibly be talking about Egypt. There no racism in Egypt (feel free to disagree), class system is not more than it is in any other culture. Sectarianism, maybe, yes I'll give you that, but it's not as serious as it was purported to be by the last regime. They had their agenda for that, to scare the west of Islamic movements. I honestly can't relate to what you're saying, or at least to how it sounds.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I don't mean racism (though I'm not convinced anywhere in the world is 100% free from that), but the class thing I agree 100%. I just don't see as it matters in the UK anymore. And I don't think it should do either. If I said "I'm sorry. I just can't hold a conversation with XXX because he's working class." I would not get a universal pat on the back - quite the contrary.
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by stayingput: What will be most difficult for Egyptians is the idea of EQUALITY - that each voice, and vote, has the same value - that the dark skinned Nubian, the baweb's daughter, and the Christian shop keeper all have the same right to express their opinion at the polling booth as the wealthy businessman living in a villa in 6 October.
THIS, I believe, will be Egypt's challenge.
I completely disagree. You can't possibly be talking about Egypt. There no racism in Egypt (feel free to disagree), class system is not more than it is in any other culture. Sectarianism, maybe, yes I'll give you that, but it's not as serious as it was purported to be by the last regime. They had their agenda for that, to scare the west of Islamic movements. I honestly can't relate to what you're saying, or at least to how it sounds.
No racism?
Really?
Then how would you explain the popularity of Fair & Lovely? Or the endless suitors proposing to a friend of my daughter's because her skin is light? Of course Egypt is racist - and WHITE IS RIGHT.
Live in Egypt, as a Christian, then tell me the sectarianism is created by the old regime.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
From what I have seen, heard and read, the class system is alive and well here in Egypt. Thriving no less. I don't see that ending anytime soon. Unfortunately.
From a country that is predominantly Muslim, you'd think or hope that they'd rise above all that junk but I guess not. It seems, like with many other cultures, that prejudices are passed from generation to generation in families, regardless of which "class" the people live in.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
Class system: I think it's rife in England (not the whole of the UK). I've never heard the words "working class" as much as I have in England. Talk about the North/South divide, etc. I don't know where everybody's from, but anybody who's lived in England will know that such issues there are subtle and convoluted (like everything Enlgish, lol).
Racism: As I said, please exercise your right of disagreeing with me, I have on problem with that. However, finding a particular look or complexion or body type for that matter, attractive doesn't mean that you find the opposite to be inherently inferior. Egyptians do not find dark people to be of lower intelligence or unworthy, etc. I used to live in LA and I know how racist the American society is (again feel free to disagree). When I went to rent a flat, to entice me to rent the owner blatantly told me we don't rent to black or Mexicans. That was only a few months after the LA riots in 1992. Some white people there truly believe that non-whites are inferior. I strongly maintain that this is not the situation in Egypt.
Sectarianism: I did NOT say it was created by the previous regime. I only said it was exaggerated by it. I also maintain that it wasn't this way in the past. I'm talking from personal experience. I do acknowledge that this is a complicated issue however, and the blame for it falls on all involved.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Class system: I think it's rife in England (not the whole of the UK). I've never heard the words "working class" as much as I have in England.
Why? Is it second class elsewhere?
Working class is used here in a positive as well as a negative way. Some people are proud to be working class. Really.
I don't understand the north/south remark, sorry.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne: From what I have seen, heard and read, the class system is alive and well here in Egypt.
Most definitely. It is NOT the same as in any other culture, sorry.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
As I've said, each is entitled to their own opinion. We all talk from our experiences which will be different, especially those who live in Egypt or visiting or have been living there, etc. Based on all that, I accept that you don't agree with me. I hope you too accept that my opinion is based on my own experiences. I'll have to leave it at this point.
Happy flighting, lol
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:We all talk from our experiences which will be different, especially those who live in Egypt or visiting or have been living there, etc.
Amoun, in which countries, apart from Egypt, have you lived?
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Amoun seems to have a habit of saying 'let's agree to disagree - goodbye' when the discussion has barely begun.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Anyway, there is definitely rampant classism in Egypt, which is more pervasive than religionism. This is what the revolution is about. To close the wealth gap, to end the authoritarianism that makes every boss treat their workers as inferiors who receive pitiful wages and have no right to complain for fear of losing their jobs. Every rich person treats the poor with either contempt or condescension. The language reflects it, the ridiculous forms of address of the lower classes to the upper, the poor to the rich. This will be the greatest achievement of the revolution... respect for all.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Amoun seems to have a habit of saying 'let's agree to disagree - goodbye' when the discussion has barely begun.
not really, only when I sense that the discussion won't be going anywhere. I only present my view and listen to that of others. I'm not trying to score a point or prove anybody wrong. It's not a matter of life and death for me! I'm not an egoist, I have no problem withdrawing from a discussion if it's not leading anywhere. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
Also some discussions descend into absurdism (a la Samuel Beckett, lol), where others seem to completely utterly totally catgorically miss your point that you feel they're talking about something completely different. They don't read what you say but what they think you ought to be saying! That's not to mention personal attacks of course. I think most sensible people would avoid such a discussion. Btw, I'm not talking about the particular discussion about classism, etc., but about other discussions (if I can call them that) on other threads. Hey, carry on without me, I assure you the world won't stop. It didn't stop when Mubarak left!
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Amoun seems to have a habit of saying 'let's agree to disagree - goodbye' when the discussion has barely begun.
not really, only when I sense that the discussion won't be going anywhere. I only present my view and listen to that of others. I'm not trying to score a point or prove anybody wrong. It's not a matter of life and death for me! I'm not an egoist, I have no problem withdrawing from a discussion if it's not leading anywhere. I really don't see anything wrong with that.
Amoun in my opinion (you might want to try using that phrase), you are immensely inflexible in your thinking.
Its your country yes, but doesn't mean others cannot judge or develop opinions of Egypt as well.
I can't tell you how many times I have been in public somewhere in Egypt and this guy comes out of the woodwork to give me his manefesto on America. He's never been to America, he's a retired cop obviously, and he knows more about my nation than I do and he's never been there.
Very few people around him feel any kind of revulsion for that type of banter.
I understand its your nation, but Egyptians would rather, in my opinion, pretend problems don't exist that don't concern them.
That type of attitude kept babaMu in power for nearly 30 years. The "HOLIER THAN THOU" paradigm.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by stayingput:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: [ Libya will fall, like so many more after it. Let's chill though, 2 nations fell in a month's time.
I agree, Libya will fall. It's almost inevitable. Dictators don't seem to learn from history, even very recent history, like a few weeks ago!! Bahrain doesn't surprise me because there's systemic injustice there. My understanding is that the majority of the population are Shia muslims while the ruling elite are Sunnis. I'm told by Bahrainis that the Shia'ites don't get their rights. Unless the king makes true reform, there's likely to be major unrest. The problem with Bahrain is that it's a testbed for the rest of the gulf states because all of them have Shia minorities who are (allegedly) discriminated against. I think Jordan and Morroco will survive if they implement true reforms. My understanding is that in both countries, people are not against the king a such but the ruling system. Syria seems to be under control. Can't predict much about Algeria, it might go either way.
Amoun, the political anal-ist, lol
Did anyone watch Gaddafi's son rant and rave through a speach on TV last night? He gave out threats, blackmail, offered to change flag, blamed everyone from the outside world, threatened civil war. Then said people would need a passport to travel from East to West Lybya.....he just waffeled for 40 mins waving his hands around.......a dictator in training... Control freak
No wonder Libyan's want to be free. Good luck the people
What will be most difficult for Egyptians is the idea of EQUALITY - that each voice, and vote, has the same value - that the dark skinned Nubian, the baweb's daughter, and the Christian shop keeper all have the same right to express their opinion at the polling booth as the wealthy businessman living in a villa in 6 October.
THIS, I believe, will be Egypt's challenge.
What do you base this on?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
شهد السوق التجارى بمدينة الغردقة صباح اليوم الثلاثاء اشتباكات بين مواطنين عاديين وأفراد شرطة على خلفية التظاهرات التى نظمها أمناء الشرطة والمخبرين السريين بالمدينة للمطالبة بتحسين أوضاعهم الوظيفية وزيادة الرواتب.
وأشار شهود عيان إلى أن الاشتباكات اندلعت بين الجانبين فى أعقاب محاولة أمناء الشرطة إغلاق منافذ السوق الأمر الذى رفضه الأهالى بما دفع بعض أفراد الشرطة للاشتباك مع المواطنين وتحطيم بعض السيارات المتواجدة بالمنطقة وإصابة أحد المواطنين "علاء الرشيدى "بكسر مضاعف فى الساق .
وأضاف شهود العيان أن اعتداءات افراد الشرطة تمت على مرأى من ضباط مديرية الأمن ومدير الأمن الذين تواجدوا على مقربة من الأحداث ولم يتدخلوا لوقف تجاوزات الشرطة وقال المواطن حسين أحمد القزاز أنه اثناء قيادة سيارته الخاصة ف فوجىء بمجموعة من افراد الشرطة بيرتدون الزى الميرى يسيرون فى مسيرة تسد الشارع قبل أن يشرعو فى تحطيم سيارات المواطنين و يقتحمون عليه سيارته الخاصة ويحاولون تحطيمها.
No more Germany for Mubarak, not it's Saudi Arabia
أفادت قناة الحرة منذ قليل أن الرئيس المصري المخلوع حسني مبارك قد سافر إلى السعودية منذ ما يقرب من يوم تقريبا للعلاج من سرطان البنكرياس بمستشفى تبوك، وذلك بعد اشتداد المرض عليه في الفترة الأخيرة، خاصة بعد تدهور حالته النفسية عقب تخليه عن السلطة مجبرا نزولا على مطالب الثوار.
وكانت قناة المستقبل اللبنانية - القريبة من النظام السعودي والتي تمول من قبل بعض رجاله - قد أكدت نفس الخبر منذ قليل.
ومن المعروف أن الرئيس المصري السابق كان قد أجرى عدة فحوص طبية سابقة قبل أن يجري عملية جراحية لاستئصال الحويصلة المرارية بمستشفى هيدلبرج بألمانيا.
quote:Originally posted by this: مفاجأة: مجند بالقوات المسلحة هو مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي دعا لثورة 25 يناير
كشف د.شادي الغزالي حرب عضو ائتلاف ثورة 25 يناير عن مفاجأة مدوية بأن مؤسس جروب خالد سعيد الذي كان أول من دعا للخروج في مظاهرات يوم 25 يناير، هو الآن مجند في القوات المسلحة ويدعى "عبد الرحمن منصور".
وأضاف حرب في تصريحات لبرنامج العاشرة مساء بأن "عبد الرحمن منصور" كان صاحب الفكر السياسي وراء جروب كلنا خالد سعيد ودعوة الخروج في مظاهرات حاشدة تطالب باسقاط نظام الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك، وأن الناشط وائل غنيم كان مسئول الجانب التقني في الجروب.
وقال حرب- في حضور ثلاثة من أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة- أن ائتلاف الثورة اخفى اسم عبد الرحمن منصور طوال هذه الفترة بسبب حساسية موقفه كونه أصبح مجندا في القوات المسلحة منذ يوم 17 يناير الماضي أي قبل الثورة بثمانية أيام فقط، وطالب حرب أعضاء المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة عدم اتخاذ أي إجراء تجاه منصور وهو أمر كان الرد عليه من قبل أعضاء المجلس بأن الفيصل في ذلك هل ما قام به لمصلحة الوطن أم لا، مؤكدين أن مافعله هو لمصلحة الوطن بكل تأكيد، كما أكد أعضاء المجلس.
It doesn't surprise me really. I'm sure a lot of people will claim they started the revolution or were leaders, motivators, making tea for the leaders, buying bathroom tissue for the leaders to wipe their bums, etc, etc. We've already seen a few people in the media interviewed as leaders. I've posted about that earlier. The fact remains that none of them has been democratically elected (to the best of my knowledge). If you're an instigator of an event, does that make you it's leader? I don't know.
Hey, here's the real surprise, you know what? Hosni Mubarak is the one who started the revolution because he wanted to have something to his name. The first air strike wasn't good enough an achievement, he wanted to have his own revolution like Nasser. Spread the word!
When I went past the Mubarak Police Academy on the way to the airport on Monday, the name was still up there in English lettering, but the Arabic lettering had mostly been torn down and was in a heap at the bottom of the wall.
Also, travelling around the Giza area for the past week, almost every time I've seen a policeman, there's been a soldier in the vicinity as well. Wonder if that is just to help the police get back in role and how widespread it is?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Re: Classism
A new constitution can tackle class discrimination. Affirmative action can be used effectively to reverse the systematic discrimination that flourished under Hosni Mubarak's regime. It's as simple as that, a policy of fair employment via a quota system that all companies in Egypt must adhere with must be enacted. I also agree with Laura about new education policy that must be put in place. One hopefully that will increase literacy rates. A good model is Jordan, they have successfully increased their literacy rate from below 70% in 1990 to over 92% in 2009. With 99.5% literacy rate of 15-25 yr old group. Just as big a challenge will be educating the sizable illiterate population. This must be achieved in pragmatic way and should take into account all complexities and challenges facing Egypt. Nothing truly worth sustaining will be easy. It will take many years, but how beautiful is it to have a new start in life?!
I would also like to add that what is transpiring around the Arab world may prove very beneficial for Egypt. Arab regimes for political reasons limit the number of Arab workers from other Arab countries. Gulf states alone employ millions of non-Arabs because of these policies. I could very well envision sympathetic Arab governments hiring workers from their Arab neighbors over laborers from countries that are thousands of miles away. This would help because the illiterate Egyptians I mentioned above will have greater opportunities in neighboring countries. This is common policy in many parts of the world. In the Asean region, hiring of laborers is preferential to neighboring nations, there are accords and agreements in this regard.
Power To The People.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
The Ministry of Interior in Cairo is currently on fire.
CAIRO: Ten new ministers and the first deputy prime minister in years were sworn in on Tuesday in the first cabinet reshuffle since a military council took power, state television announced.
The new ministers were sworn in before Field Marshall Hussein Tantawi, the head of a military council which has ruled Egypt since president Hosni Mubarak was ousted on Feb.11 following more than two weeks of mass protests.
Professor of constitutional law Yehia El-Gamal was sworn in as deputy prime minister; Amr Ezzat Salama as Minister of Scientific Research and Technology; Ahmed Gamal Eddin Moussa as Minister of Education and Higher Education; Maged Ibrahim Othman as Minister of Communication Information Technology; Ashraf Mahmoud Ibrahim Hatem as Minister of Health and Population; Mahmoud Abdel-Latif Mahmoud Amer as Minister of Petroleum; Gouda Abdel-Khaleq as Minister of Social Solidarity; Samir Youssef El-Sayyad as Minister of Trade and Industry; Ismail Ibrahim Fahmy as Minister of Manpower and Immigration; Mounir Fakhry Abdel-Nour as Minister of Tourism and Mohamed Abdel-Moniem El-Sawy as Minister of Culture.
Key portfolios of defence interior, foreign, finance and justice were unchanged in the reshuffle. – Agencies
Anyone elses Facebook gone down? Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Nope, I'm still farming away. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
hhmm just mine then. I was on then it went off, can't connect at all now and even restarted browser, nothing Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Our net in general was wonky for a couple days during the sand storm and it tends to be slow the last couple days, but aside from that everything appears to be working.
Have you tried using a different browser?
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Just a couple of observations:
When I went past the Mubarak Police Academy on the way to the airport on Monday, the name was still up there in English lettering, but the Arabic lettering had mostly been torn down and was in a heap at the bottom of the wall.
Should it be changed? I'm not particularly fond of Mubarak and his regime, but does that mean we change the name of everything that has his name. If you think yes, then why and if you think no, then also why? We still have a lot of things carrying Nasser's name, Sadat's name and even the Khedevis' names. Think El-Esmayliya, Port Said, ,Sadat City, bank Nasser, lake Nasser. Or is it because Mubarak was deposed by revolution while the others weren't. That might make sense actually, because whilst we have Port Fouad, we don't seem to have anything in Farouk's name!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: The Ministry of Interior in Cairo is currently on fire.
the comments below the clip is suggesting that the police are doing it to burn any evidence against them. May very well be the case!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: No more Germany for Mubarak, not it's Saudi Arabia
القذافي من العشرة المبشرين بجدة
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Just a couple of observations:
When I went past the Mubarak Police Academy on the way to the airport on Monday, the name was still up there in English lettering, but the Arabic lettering had mostly been torn down and was in a heap at the bottom of the wall.
Should it be changed? I'm not particularly fond of Mubarak and his regime, but does that mean we change the name of everything that has his name. If you think yes, then why and if you think no, then also why? We still have a lot of things carrying Nasser's name, Sadat's name and even the Khedevis' names. Think El-Esmayliya, Port Said, ,Sadat City, bank Nasser, lake Nasser. Or is it because Mubarak was deposed by revolution while the others weren't. That might make sense actually, because whilst we have Port Fouad, we don't seem to have anything in Farouk's name!
Gamal Abdel Nasser died penniless. Sadat's wife Jehan had to earn a living after her husband's death. The Mubaraks are worth billions they made at the expense of Egyptian people. Therein lies the difference.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Good, people's reaction was exactly what every corrupt officer, civil worker of government official should expect now. People are not afraid to take matters in their own hands. I was in a motor vehicle bureau after the revolution and the fear on many of the employees was great to see. All one had to do is raise his/her voice and the entire office wondered if the building is about to be burned down. It was great.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Isn't the one week promise of Constitution revisions up?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I had a follow up on a police man (high up) who gave us a bit of stick (not literally, I'd like to point out) on January 25th, coincidentally enough.
When I was there, he sat in the middle of the coffee shop playing the big I am. Never picked up a tab of course. Now he hides himself away in the corner.
When the revolution was going on, our driver saw him in the supermarket. He said "Hi Pasha". Apparently his face was a picture "Sssshhh ssshhh ssshhh!!!".
Happy days Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
What I don't get is the emergency law. I thought it was a no brainer and that it would have the been first to go.
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: [QUOTE]What do you base this on?
Are you asking for a biography, or does it suffice to know one of the first Arabic words I learned was "hdrdk" because I heard it so often?
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: What I don't get is the emergency law. I thought it was a no brainer and that it would have the been first to go.
Suspended Constitution Suspended Police Force Temporary Government
There has to be something in place to determine what's legal and what's not.
I suspect the emergency law will stay in place until lots more is sorted out.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Quite possibly they are keeping it in enforce, to allow them to round up all these theiving corrupt officials and their counterpoints legally.
From Wiki:
Under state of emergency, the government has the right to imprison individuals for any period of time, and for virtually no reason, thus keeping them in prisons without trials for any period.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by stayingput:
quote:Originally posted by this: [QUOTE]What do you base this on?
Are you asking for a biography, or does it suffice to know one of the first Arabic words I learned was "hdrdk" because I heard it so often?
I don't understand what you mean and I have no clue what hdrdk means.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by stayingput:
quote:Originally posted by this: What I don't get is the emergency law. I thought it was a no brainer and that it would have the been first to go.
Suspended Constitution Suspended Police Force Temporary Government
There has to be something in place to determine what's legal and what's not.
I suspect the emergency law will stay in place until lots more is sorted out.
The police has not been suspended. I don't exactly know what happened to them and why their number have dwindled but they were not restricted in a way that prevent them from enforcing the current laws. Not to my knowledge anyway.
There are enough laws on the books to provide for security and justice. There's never a reason for draconian laws. Canceling the emergency law will give a clear signal that justice will prevail in Egypt, not power.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Quite possibly they are keeping it in enforce, to allow them to round up all these theiving corrupt officials and their counterpoints legally.
From Wiki:
Under state of emergency, the government has the right to imprison individuals for any period of time, and for virtually no reason, thus keeping them in prisons without trials for any period.
If they can not put together a case and support a charge under the existing laws, I would be happy to see them go free. "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer".
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
تقدم عصر اليوم الخميس اللواء عادل لبيب محافظ الإسكندرية بإستقالته إلى المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة وجاءت استقالة محافظ الإسكندرية بعد تعرضه لإعتداءات من قبل أهالى الإسكندرية لدرجة جعلته يغير مكان إقامته أكثر من مرة.
وجاءت المظاهرة التى اقامها أمس بعض الشباب أمام حى شرق بالمدينة بعد علمهم بتواجد المحافظ بداخله لتسيير أمور المحافظة لتعرض مبناها إلى الهدم نتيجة اشتعال النيران به خلال المظاهرات، الأمر الذى دفع موظفى الحى بضرورة رحيل المحافظ حرصاً على حياتهم بعد تهجم المواطنين على مبنى الحى والإشتباك مع المحافظ لولا تدخل حراسته وتهريبه وهى ليست المرة الأولى فسبق وأن هاجمه المواطنين فى مبنى مديرية الإسكان فى الأسبوع الماضى وقام موظفى المديرية بالإعتصام لحين رحيل المحافظ عن مبنى المديرية، وأنشئ شباب المدينة جروب يطالب بسقوط عادل لبيب على الموقع الإجتماعى الشهير (فيس بوك).
وقالت مصادر من داخل محافظة الإسكندرية بأن السكرتير العام للمحافظة خيرى حماد سيكون القائم بأعمال محافظ الإسكندرية لحين تعيين محافظ جديد.
The governor of Alexandria has tendered his resignation for fear for his safety after being attacked by Alexandrians that he had to change his place of residence more than once.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Isn't the one week promise of Constitution revisions up?
I actually have been taking the previous day's NYtimes from a friends place and scouring the pages just to see if something was there that I hadn't read in the online version.
Sure enough nothing has been noted on the week revisions, not a word on the current state of the Constitution.
Its making me uneasy.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
They said 10 days not 1 week? Last I heard, weeks hadn't gone decimal unlike the French revolution! The constitution committee is meeting the army tomorrow:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: They said 10 days not 1 week? Last I heard, weeks hadn't gone decimal unlike the French revolution! The constitution committee is meeting the army tomorrow:
7 days for "constitutional amendment" committee discussion and 3 days to decide how to get started or put together a frame work on how the "amendments" will impact from here to the election in six months?
from article:
"An army source told Reuters that before the elections, the constitutional amendments would be the subject of a public debate followed by a referendum."
Just discussing how to get the public involved and how to get a referendum out and be voted on without the usual election debacle makes sense.
Breaking old habits and removing the "emergency law" policies in regards to funneling decision making one way could actually take six months.
its difficult to learn new tricks, even in six months.
I am think "checks and balances" would taken out of government policy for the last 30 years, putting them back in will take a gargantuan effort.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
I am just excited about the constitutional amendments.
Attempting to re-orchestrate how a government would function without an emergency law, to infuse "transparency" really works me over.
That has to be the blockage, undoing literally tens of thousands of procedures and policies to allow transparency. Thus the "check and balance" of the system has me literally dizzy to mull over.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: They said 10 days not 1 week? Last I heard, weeks hadn't gone decimal unlike the French revolution! The constitution committee is meeting the army tomorrow:
They keep posting updates but unfortunately as pictures so can't just copy and paste the words into google translate.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
The blog post mirrors pretty much the same articles of the constitution that were discussed.
Many newspapers I read in the USA stated 7 days.
Anyhow the blogspot post also has the names of all six who make up the committee:
Sixth here is the full list of the constitutional committee’s members :
* Tarek El-Bishry * Dr. Atef El-Banaa : Professor of constitutional law , Cairo university , law school * Hussanein Abdel Aal : Professor of constitutional law , Cairo university , member of the national human rights council and was chosen as a member in previous constitutional amendments committee formed by Omar Soliman. * Dr. Mohamed Bahi Yonus : Professor of constitutional law, Alexandria university * Judge Maher Sami Youssef : Deputy of the supreme constitutional court head , a Christian judge * Judge Hassan El-Badrawy : Deputy of the supreme constitutional court head and minister of justice’s aide for the parliamentary affairs. * Judge Hatem Bagato : The head of the commissioners’ committee at constitutional court “I hope that I translated it correctly”. He is considered from the fathers of Criminalizing FGM law in Egypt and he is the man who nullified the law no.100 to regulate the unions and syndications in Egypt in one of the biggest slaps to the regime before the revolution. Bagato is the sectary of this committee. * Lawyer Sobhi Saleh : Former member of parliament from 2005 to 2010. He is from the Muslim brotherhood. An active member in the bar association and he lost in the last election in front of Abdel Salem Maghoub.
now there is quite a balance in there, a throw back to previous regime workovers of the constitution and a couple judges who pushed the regime down.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
As frustrating as it is, we should all remember that Egypt was under the Mubarak's regime for over 30 years. It will take time.
I am excitedly inpatient like many of you, but some patience would be helpful. The day will come when a new constitution will be in place, with freedom of expression, set presidential terms, free elections, and other rights. The day will come when Tantawi, Shafiq, Aboul Gheit and other remnants of the regime will be gone forever.
A new president will eventually replace the old guard in the military and in cabinet.
Let'a emphasize the difference between today and January 1, 2011.
Call a radio talk show and voice your grievance about government corruption and even name names. or even blog ANYTHING you wish with your real name.
February 25, 2011: Nothing will happen to you.
January 1, 2011:Expect a knock on your door at around 3 or 4am.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
January 1, 2011:Expect a knock on your door at around 3 or 4am.
(you forgot to add: and eveyone in your immediate family and extended family, and some of your friends too.) Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: January 1, 2011:Expect a knock on your door at around 3 or 4am.
(you forgot to add: and eveyone in your immediate family and extended family, and some of your friends too.)
The poor Bowab too. Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Better a resignation than being thrown out I guess. Here is list of the rest of them going soon. Anyone missing from the list, or did they cover it well?
Informed sources told Ahram Online that they expect at least half of the country’s governors will be replaced, including Fathy Saad, the governor of 6th October city, Seif El Din Galal, governor of Suez, Abdel Fadeel Shousha, governor of South of Sinai, Ali Hussein, governor of Qalyoubia, Adel Labib, governor of Alexandria, Mustafa Abdel Latif, governor of Port Said, Abdel Gleel Fakharani, governor of Ismalia, Mustafa El Sayed, governor of Aswan and Ahmed Zaki Abdeen, governor of Kafr El Sheikh
quote:Originally posted by this: تقدم عصر اليوم الخميس اللواء عادل لبيب محافظ الإسكندرية بإستقالته إلى المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة وجاءت استقالة محافظ الإسكندرية بعد تعرضه لإعتداءات من قبل أهالى الإسكندرية لدرجة جعلته يغير مكان إقامته أكثر من مرة.
وجاءت المظاهرة التى اقامها أمس بعض الشباب أمام حى شرق بالمدينة بعد علمهم بتواجد المحافظ بداخله لتسيير أمور المحافظة لتعرض مبناها إلى الهدم نتيجة اشتعال النيران به خلال المظاهرات، الأمر الذى دفع موظفى الحى بضرورة رحيل المحافظ حرصاً على حياتهم بعد تهجم المواطنين على مبنى الحى والإشتباك مع المحافظ لولا تدخل حراسته وتهريبه وهى ليست المرة الأولى فسبق وأن هاجمه المواطنين فى مبنى مديرية الإسكان فى الأسبوع الماضى وقام موظفى المديرية بالإعتصام لحين رحيل المحافظ عن مبنى المديرية، وأنشئ شباب المدينة جروب يطالب بسقوط عادل لبيب على الموقع الإجتماعى الشهير (فيس بوك).
وقالت مصادر من داخل محافظة الإسكندرية بأن السكرتير العام للمحافظة خيرى حماد سيكون القائم بأعمال محافظ الإسكندرية لحين تعيين محافظ جديد.
The governor of Alexandria has tendered his resignation for fear for his safety after being attacked by Alexandrians that he had to change his place of residence more than once.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Better a resignation than being thrown out I guess. Here is list of the rest of them going soon. Anyone missing from the list, or did they cover it well?
Informed sources told Ahram Online that they expect at least half of the country’s governors will be replaced, including Fathy Saad, the governor of 6th October city, Seif El Din Galal, governor of Suez, Abdel Fadeel Shousha, governor of South of Sinai, Ali Hussein, governor of Qalyoubia, Adel Labib, governor of Alexandria, Mustafa Abdel Latif, governor of Port Said, Abdel Gleel Fakharani, governor of Ismalia, Mustafa El Sayed, governor of Aswan and Ahmed Zaki Abdeen, governor of Kafr El Sheikh
quote:Originally posted by this: تقدم عصر اليوم الخميس اللواء عادل لبيب محافظ الإسكندرية بإستقالته إلى المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة وجاءت استقالة محافظ الإسكندرية بعد تعرضه لإعتداءات من قبل أهالى الإسكندرية لدرجة جعلته يغير مكان إقامته أكثر من مرة.
وجاءت المظاهرة التى اقامها أمس بعض الشباب أمام حى شرق بالمدينة بعد علمهم بتواجد المحافظ بداخله لتسيير أمور المحافظة لتعرض مبناها إلى الهدم نتيجة اشتعال النيران به خلال المظاهرات، الأمر الذى دفع موظفى الحى بضرورة رحيل المحافظ حرصاً على حياتهم بعد تهجم المواطنين على مبنى الحى والإشتباك مع المحافظ لولا تدخل حراسته وتهريبه وهى ليست المرة الأولى فسبق وأن هاجمه المواطنين فى مبنى مديرية الإسكان فى الأسبوع الماضى وقام موظفى المديرية بالإعتصام لحين رحيل المحافظ عن مبنى المديرية، وأنشئ شباب المدينة جروب يطالب بسقوط عادل لبيب على الموقع الإجتماعى الشهير (فيس بوك).
وقالت مصادر من داخل محافظة الإسكندرية بأن السكرتير العام للمحافظة خيرى حماد سيكون القائم بأعمال محافظ الإسكندرية لحين تعيين محافظ جديد.
The governor of Alexandria has tendered his resignation for fear for his safety after being attacked by Alexandrians that he had to change his place of residence more than once.
I counted 8, so there are 21 more governors that need to be replaced. They didn't include biggies such as Cairo, Giza, Minya, Dakhilia, Sohag, Monifya, etc. It will be interesting to see who they replace them with, and it could turn out to be a good transitional move, and just that transistional. Ultimately the people of the governorates should vote in the governors of their choice. This shouldn't be decided by the President or PM.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Shooting of a minibus driver by a police officer today in Maadi
Everyone was talking about this yesterday; strangers on the street and taxi drivers warned me not to go near Midan al Gazair. There were also rumours about plans to set the police building on fire and it was surrounded by tanks and soldiers later last night.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Shooting of a minibus driver by a police officer today in Maadi
You can't tell from the clip whether the man lying in the back of the truck is dead or unconscious. You also can't tell if he's a microbus driver or a police officer or anything else! Also the burning car, is it a police vehicle? Nothing on it indicates that it is (police logo, nubmer plates or even colour).
If it said "foriegn reporter killed by Egyptian mob", or "sectarian violance in Egypt" or "secret police killing a civilian and burning his truck", etc, etc. We'd still be none the wiser!
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
Sorry, we must've cross posted. So it's been corroborated by other sources then?
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by stayingput:
quote:Originally posted by this: [QUOTE]What do you base this on?
Are you asking for a biography, or does it suffice to know one of the first Arabic words I learned was "hdrdk" because I heard it so often?
I don't understand what you mean and I have no clue what hdrdk means.
Good luck mate! I hope you have better luck than me. I failed miserably in this discussion!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Does 'hdrdk' mean 'hadritik' momkin?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
If that's what it means, it's common form of addressing people and showing respect. Like "Sie" in German. It doesn't answer my question and doesn't clarify what Stayingput meant.
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: The police has not been suspended. I don't exactly know what happened to them and why their number have dwindled but they were not restricted in a way that prevent them from enforcing the current laws. Not to my knowledge anyway.
There are enough laws on the books to provide for security and justice. There's never a reason for draconian laws. Canceling the emergency law will give a clear signal that justice will prevail in Egypt, not power.
Whilst the police hasn't been suspended, it certainly isn't operating normally. I have a legal dispute with somebody regarding a propery I own. The property was "sealed with red wax" as they say in Egypt, to prevent him from accessing it. Guess what happened? He removed the wax during the unrest and started using the property. This is a misdemeanor, punishable by law. I asked the person who called me from home to let me know and who looks after my interests there, I asked him if the police station is operating normally so he can report it (what we call mahdar in Egypt). He said no, because the station had been burnt and probably all the past reports (mahdars) as well, unless they've been forwarded to the attorney (neyaba). Such small everyday sort of incidents will go unresolved and will have repercussions on people's rights in disputes. If the police reports have been burnt and I can't file a report with the recent developments, then this makes it more difficult for me to prove my rights in the future. I'm sure others will have experienced other sorts of problems. Things like traffic accidents, car licence renewals (files may have been burnt, if not stored electronically), minor legal problems, etc.
As for your second point, I believe that if there's ever a suitable time for emergency laws then it is now. I've discussed that before so won't repeat it here. In fact the original reasons for the emergency laws (drugs and terrorism) could've been handled within the normal laws (or slight modifications of them). Everybody knows the emergency laws were there to crush political dissent. And the corrupt parliaments for the past 30 years used to extend them without even a meaningful discussion of whether they were needed.
I really think that eveybdoy who was in past parliament (from the NDP) should be stripped of their political rights, a bit like el-baath law in Iraq. I know this will be unjust for some, but it's in the best interest of society as a whole.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
علم "الدستور الأصلى" من مصادر مطلعة أن هناك اتجاه قوى لدى رئيس الوزراء أحمد شفيق لطلب تعيين الدكتور أحمد زكى بدر وزير التعليم السابق محافظاً للقاهرة خلفاً للدكتور عبد العظيم وزير المحافظ الحالى، وقالت المصادر أن القرار سيصدر خلال أيام ، فى نفس الوقت الذى سيتم فتح التحقيق فيه مع "وزير" بسبب عدد من المخالفات ارتكبها خلال الفترة التى تولى فيها منصب محافظ القاهرة.
يأتى ذلك رغم أن أحمد شفيق قال عن زكى بدر أنه شخص مندفع ولا يعرف كيفية التعامل مع الجمهور، وهو ما يعنى أن أحمد شفيق يريد أشخاصا يجلسون فى المكاتب ولا يتعاملون مع الجمهور.
The big crook, Ahmad Shafik, is thinking of appointing his crooked friend -Ex Education Minister Ahmad Zaki- as Cairo Governor. These people obviously don't get the point.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by this: The police has not been suspended. I don't exactly know what happened to them and why their number have dwindled but they were not restricted in a way that prevent them from enforcing the current laws. Not to my knowledge anyway.
There are enough laws on the books to provide for security and justice. There's never a reason for draconian laws. Canceling the emergency law will give a clear signal that justice will prevail in Egypt, not power.
Whilst the police hasn't been suspended, it certainly isn't operating normally. I have a legal dispute with somebody regarding a propery I own. The property was "sealed with red wax" as they say in Egypt, to prevent him from accessing it. Guess what happened? He removed the wax during the unrest and started using the property. This is a misdemeanor, punishable by law. I asked the person who called me from home to let me know and who looks after my interests there, I asked him if the police station is operating normally so he can report it (what we call mahdar in Egypt). He said no, because the station had been burnt and probably all the past reports (mahdars) as well, unless they've been forwarded to the attorney (neyaba). Such small everyday sort of incidents will go unresolved and will have repercussions on people's rights in disputes. If the police reports have been burnt and I can't file a report with the recent developments, then this makes it more difficult for me to prove my rights in the future. I'm sure others will have experienced other sorts of problems. Things like traffic accidents, car licence renewals (files may have been burnt, if not stored electronically), minor legal problems, etc.
As for your second point, I believe that if there's ever a suitable time for emergency laws then it is now. I've discussed that before so won't repeat it here. In fact the original reasons for the emergency laws (drugs and terrorism) could've been handled within the normal laws (or slight modifications of them). Everybody knows the emergency laws were there to crush political dissent. And the corrupt parliaments for the past 30 years used to extend them without even a meaningful discussion of whether they were needed.
I really think that eveybdoy who was in past parliament (from the NDP) should be stripped of their political rights, a bit like el-baath law in Iraq. I know this will be unjust for some, but it's in the best interest of society as a whole.
I may have missed your points. If there are no police to enforce law, why should I believe that they will be there to enforce emergency law?
Then you went on to explain to me that the emergency law was not intended to fight terrorism and drug crimes as was claimed but in fact to quash dissent. Then why is this a good time for emergency law? Why is there ever a good time for emergency law?
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: I may have missed your points. If there are no police to enforce law, why should I believe that they will be there to enforce emergency law?
Then you went on to explain to me that the emergency law was not intended to fight terrorism and drug crimes as was claimed but in fact to quash dissent. Then why is this a good time for emergency law? Why is there ever a good time for emergency law?
The point I was trying to make was that during exceptional times you need exceptional (aka emergency) laws. I gave the example of my property as a situation where normal law could not be enforced. Although in this particular instance, emergency law wouldn't have helped either As someone mentioned above, in the current climate if you catch someone involved in sabotage, burglary, etc (especially if politically motivated) then you need to be able to apprehend them. It is difficult to go through the due process in the current climate (as my case demonstrates albeit in a different context).
To answer your question about who enforces it, I suppose it's the army. I certainly wouldn't want the police enforcing it again as they'll abuse the power. I do see your concern btw, but what's reassuring is that this is (or should be) a temporary measure until things settle down, sort of a necessary evil.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by this: I may have missed your points. If there are no police to enforce law, why should I believe that they will be there to enforce emergency law?
Then you went on to explain to me that the emergency law was not intended to fight terrorism and drug crimes as was claimed but in fact to quash dissent. Then why is this a good time for emergency law? Why is there ever a good time for emergency law?
The point I was trying to make was that during exceptional times you need exceptional (aka emergency) laws. I gave the example of my property as a situation where normal law could not be enforced. Although in this particular instance, emergency law wouldn't have helped either As someone mentioned above, in the current climate if you catch someone involved in sabotage, burglary, etc (especially if politically motivated) then you need to be able to apprehend them. It is difficult to go through the due process in the current climate (as my case demonstrates albeit in a different context).
To answer your question about who enforces it, I suppose it's the army. I certainly wouldn't want the police enforcing it again as they'll abuse the power. I do see your concern btw, but what's reassuring is that this is (or should be) a temporary measure until things settle down, sort of a necessary evil.
Amoun, why don't you have the "caretaker" throw his behind out, beat the hell out of him and scream harami. He would have the whole neighborhood behind him soon, and your problem solved. PS, you might want to consider a little extra bonus for him this month Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
Amoun, why don't you have the "caretaker" throw his behind out, beat the hell out of him and scream harami. He would have the whole neighborhood behind him soon, and your problem solved. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Thanks Laura for your concern and your advice. I wish it was as simple as that, although even if it was, I'm not that sort of person. Anyway, the real problem is that the guy is a "baltagy", i.e. thug. Without going into too much detail. When he first got into the property, it was because the original tenant owed him money and didn't pay it. So he brought two truckloads of criminals, with machetes and knives, stormed into the property and pulled the other guys men out (reggaltoh, that's the language they use). He was telling me how he sorted his things out with the police station before hand, then brought the criminals from a part of the city well known for having criminals. He gave them "water" (turned out to mean alcohol), apparantly got them drunk, gave each a some of money and a promise to get them out of the police, then set them loose. The police only interfers if someone gets killed, otherwise they don't give a monkey's (sorry monkey!). That's their normal practice btw, has nothing to do with my case.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by this: I may have missed your points. If there are no police to enforce law, why should I believe that they will be there to enforce emergency law?
Then you went on to explain to me that the emergency law was not intended to fight terrorism and drug crimes as was claimed but in fact to quash dissent. Then why is this a good time for emergency law? Why is there ever a good time for emergency law?
The point I was trying to make was that during exceptional times you need exceptional (aka emergency) laws. I gave the example of my property as a situation where normal law could not be enforced. Although in this particular instance, emergency law wouldn't have helped either
"In this particular instance" you needed police not laws. The laws are there, just no on to enforce them.
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by this: [qb]
As someone mentioned above, in the current climate if you catch someone involved in sabotage, burglary, etc (especially if politically motivated) then you need to be able to apprehend them. It is difficult to go through the due process in the current climate (as my case demonstrates albeit in a different context).
Again, the what you're describing is the lack of law enforcement personnel. Not laws. Had there been police to apprehend the burglar they would've had to follow procedure file charges and support it them with evidence. That's how the law works.
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: [QUOTE]Originally posted by this: [qb] To answer your question about who enforces it, I suppose it's the army. I certainly wouldn't want the police enforcing it again as they'll abuse the power. I do see your concern btw, but what's reassuring is that this is (or should be) a temporary measure until things settle down, sort of a necessary evil.
That's fine and dandy. Then the army can enforce the laws and no need for emergency laws. If the army is trained in powers of arrest and evidence gathering, so be it. Still no need for emergency law.
Now here is what I get from your argument if we can call it that. You want a gang of thugs to go around arbitrary arresting and detaining people because you're scared you may loose a land. Well that's just not how civil societies work.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Amoun - I don't think most ppl are "that sort of person" including myself. BUT..these are extraordinary times and ppl are fed up with being taken advantage of and property being stolen, especially now!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Thanks Laura for your concern and your advice. I wish it was as simple as that, although even if it was, I'm not that sort of person. Anyway, the real problem is that the guy is a "baltagy", i.e. thug. Without going into too much detail. When he first got into the property, it was because the original tenant owed him money and didn't pay it. So he brought two truckloads of criminals, with machetes and knives, stormed into the property and pulled the other guys men out (reggaltoh, that's the language they use). He was telling me how he sorted his things out with the police station before hand, then brought the criminals from a part of the city well known for having criminals. He gave them "water" (turned out to mean alcohol), apparantly got them drunk, gave each a some of money and a promise to get them out of the police, then set them loose. The police only interfers if someone gets killed, otherwise they don't give a monkey's (sorry monkey!). That's their normal practice btw, has nothing to do with my case.
The way I would react to this scenario is resort to Law, shoot the motherfucker myself or let it go altogether.
No way would I ask for an emergency law that would victimize millions of people.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Clarification: I too, want the emergency law dropped immediately. My suggestion to Amoun was strictly an advice on how to handle his "property issue".
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
this, let us agree on a few things: 1- The police is currently dysfunctional. 2- The army is not trained to enforce the common law, criminal or otherwise. 3- Hence normal law can not be enforced (either because of 1 or 2), i.e. those who are trained to enforce it are not fully functional, and those who are functional are not trained to enforce it. 4- Hence we are in exceptioal cricumstances, that need exceptional solutions. This happens to be emergency law, I would've prefered to call it marshal laws actually, because they shouldn't be the actual emergency laws that we had.
Finally this, I assure you it has absolutely nothing to do with my propery, and I most certainly do not believe that the law should be left in the hands of thugs. I've suffered from the consequences of that myself! I don't know where in my post did you infer this from. I was talking about the army who are honourable and trained individuals, certainly not thugs!
In fact the problem with my property diminishes into insignificance compared to what's happening in the country at large, or to what happened to some people during the revolution, e.g. killed or maimed. So please don't phrase it as if I want emergency law for personal reasons!!!!!!! That would be insulting to those who suffered in the revolution.
Given 1 and 2 above, which we seem to agree upon, in your view how can we sort out the situation?
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: Clarification: I too, want the emergency law dropped immediately. My suggestion to Amoun was strictly an advice on how to handle his "property issue".
ditto as for my property issue, this was just an example. Let us drop it from the conversation and focus on the more important issue, the law.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
If they remove the "EL" will they have to immediately start releasing all the political prisoners they are holding?
Posted by Amoun over the moon (Member # 18587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: If they remove the "EL" will they have to immediately start releasing all the political prisoners they are holding?
Good point Laura. I know they can release them without removing the EL (hence a test of intentions). But, if they remove the EL, will they HAVE to release them. I suppose it depends on why they were detained (on paper that is).
Now to another issue. Does anybody have any news about the situation in Libya. I saw parts of the guys talk on TV. He's a real nut case, I seriously suspect that he's clinicaly insane!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Btw the posts seem a bit scrambled - posts on page 2 are older than posts on page 1 for example.
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Does 'hdrdk' mean 'hadritik' momkin?
Aiwa.
I never use vowels in my transliterations.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Thanks Laura for your concern and your advice. I wish it was as simple as that, although even if it was, I'm not that sort of person. Anyway, the real problem is that the guy is a "baltagy", i.e. thug. Without going into too much detail. When he first got into the property, it was because the original tenant owed him money and didn't pay it. So he brought two truckloads of criminals, with machetes and knives, stormed into the property and pulled the other guys men out (reggaltoh, that's the language they use). He was telling me how he sorted his things out with the police station before hand, then brought the criminals from a part of the city well known for having criminals. He gave them "water" (turned out to mean alcohol), apparantly got them drunk, gave each a some of money and a promise to get them out of the police, then set them loose. The police only interfers if someone gets killed, otherwise they don't give a monkey's (sorry monkey!). That's their normal practice btw, has nothing to do with my case.
Sounds like a nightmare Is there no way of smoking him out? Literally sounds good to me but is there no way of cutting off his power/water etc?
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey:
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Thanks Laura for your concern and your advice. I wish it was as simple as that, although even if it was, I'm not that sort of person. Anyway, the real problem is that the guy is a "baltagy", i.e. thug. Without going into too much detail. When he first got into the property, it was because the original tenant owed him money and didn't pay it. So he brought two truckloads of criminals, with machetes and knives, stormed into the property and pulled the other guys men out (reggaltoh, that's the language they use). He was telling me how he sorted his things out with the police station before hand, then brought the criminals from a part of the city well known for having criminals. He gave them "water" (turned out to mean alcohol), apparantly got them drunk, gave each a some of money and a promise to get them out of the police, then set them loose. The police only interfers if someone gets killed, otherwise they don't give a monkey's (sorry monkey!). That's their normal practice btw, has nothing to do with my case.
Sounds like a nightmare Is there no way of smoking him out? Literally sounds good to me but is there no way of cutting off his power/water etc?
You ccould do with a few Hell's Angel's...they would sort him out
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
Sorry, we must've cross posted. So it's been corroborated by other sources then?
Yes. And it's been reported by various news sources.
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I counted 8, so there are 21 more governors that need to be replaced. They didn't include biggies such as Cairo, Giza, Minya, Dakhilia, Sohag, Monifya, etc. It will be interesting to see who they replace them with, and it could turn out to be a good transitional move, and just that transistional. Ultimately the people of the governorates should vote in the governors of their choice. This shouldn't be decided by the President or PM.
Most of those Governors are from Menoufia. Even my husband's family has a problem with the Govs being predominantly from one area.
THough I think some of them do try really hard to build a consensus among mayors of prominent towns. It would be seriously difficult to carry out national orders at a municipal level without the mayors help.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
quote:Originally posted by this: The police has not been suspended. I don't exactly know what happened to them and why their number have dwindled but they were not restricted in a way that prevent them from enforcing the current laws. Not to my knowledge anyway.
There are enough laws on the books to provide for security and justice. There's never a reason for draconian laws. Canceling the emergency law will give a clear signal that justice will prevail in Egypt, not power.
Whilst the police hasn't been suspended, it certainly isn't operating normally. I have a legal dispute with somebody regarding a propery I own. The property was "sealed with red wax" as they say in Egypt, to prevent him from accessing it. Guess what happened? He removed the wax during the unrest and started using the property. This is a misdemeanor, punishable by law. I asked the person who called me from home to let me know and who looks after my interests there, I asked him if the police station is operating normally so he can report it (what we call mahdar in Egypt). He said no, because the station had been burnt and probably all the past reports (mahdars) as well, unless they've been forwarded to the attorney (neyaba). Such small everyday sort of incidents will go unresolved and will have repercussions on people's rights in disputes. If the police reports have been burnt and I can't file a report with the recent developments, then this makes it more difficult for me to prove my rights in the future. I'm sure others will have experienced other sorts of problems. Things like traffic accidents, car licence renewals (files may have been burnt, if not stored electronically), minor legal problems, etc.
As for your second point, I believe that if there's ever a suitable time for emergency laws then it is now. I've discussed that before so won't repeat it here. In fact the original reasons for the emergency laws (drugs and terrorism) could've been handled within the normal laws (or slight modifications of them). Everybody knows the emergency laws were there to crush political dissent. And the corrupt parliaments for the past 30 years used to extend them without even a meaningful discussion of whether they were needed.
I really think that eveybdoy who was in past parliament (from the NDP) should be stripped of their political rights, a bit like el-baath law in Iraq. I know this will be unjust for some, but it's in the best interest of society as a whole.
First off how do you know it wasn't part of the emergency law that kept police paperwork and court paperwork from going electronic?
Some government agencies that aren't yet paperless or "electronic" do have carbon copies of all forms which get transported every week.
Yet the police paperwork and some court paperwork wasn't even carbon copied. You ever wonder why?
And how would the emergency law even address errant, rioting, looting, and burning done by police officers? Seriously the emergency law gave police the ability to circumvent civil rights, isn't that what they are doing now?
It doesn't mean the emergency law would get police to deter their rioting, burning, looting and chase this guy out of your flat.
Emergency law give the police the privledge to explain to you your flat is not as important as chasing down terrorists. Some of whom are rioting, burning down the Ministry of Interior, shooting Maadi bus drivers and spent the last month looting.
Instead of chasing down a guy who moved back into your flat.
Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
Egyptian Workers Strike for Minimum Wage and Independent Unions
We need them to write that "Revolution for Dummies" book. The world can use it!
.
Posted by stayingput (Member # 14989) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: If that's what it means, it's common form of addressing people and showing respect. Like "Sie" in German. It doesn't answer my question and doesn't clarify what Stayingput meant.
Right, the formal "you," used with anyone holds a higher social status, real or perceived.
It's the distinction between status/class that I believe will be Egypt's biggest challenge in forming a democracy, meaning "one man, one vote" - and one woman, one vote.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon:
In fact the problem with my property diminishes into insignificance compared to what's happening in the country at large, or to what happened to some people during the revolution, e.g. killed or maimed. So please don't phrase it as if I want emergency law for personal reasons!!!!!!! That would be insulting to those who suffered in the revolution.
What is happening "in the country at large"? What happened happened to some people during the revolution? Please answer in relation to our discussion regarding emergency law.
quote:Originally posted by Amoun over the moon: Given 1 and 2 above, which we seem to agree upon, in your view how can we sort out the situation?
I believe the police can be reformed quickly to perform the tasks they need to perform especially as it relates to security. That can be done very quickly and they will still operate within current laws excluding emergency law. I'm not sure if they are stupid or pretending to be but some very basic law enforcement procedure are yet to be implemented.
Most important is that I do not like the over-reliance on policing to begin with. I criticize western societies for surrendering much of their freedom to laws and law enforcement and do not believe that is healthy for any community. Law enforcement is necessary in some situations but the emphasis should be on community involvement and management. The fascinating part abut the revolution is how people organized themselves so quickly to support protesters and at the same time to provide security for themselves and their families. There should be more community organization, involvement and oversight. Not saying that people should patrol the streets as they did but form neighborhood watches and work with law enforcement to keep their communities safe. There are many examples in the west to take from.
Traffic control in many areas can be better organized by community organization rather than police. The emphasis should be on cooperation rather than threat of punishment.
There's no reason for police involvement in administrate matters such as drivers licensing and vehicle registration. Those police personnel can be reassigned to law enforcement duties.
It doesn't take four years of academy to train a person in law enforcement. They're not suppose to be legal minds, just enforce some basic rules withing strict guidelines.
The whole thing is not in any way complicated just need fresh minds to start working with people rather than against them.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by stayingput:
quote:Originally posted by this: If that's what it means, it's common form of addressing people and showing respect. Like "Sie" in German. It doesn't answer my question and doesn't clarify what Stayingput meant.
Right, the formal "you," used with anyone holds a higher social status, real or perceived.
It's the distinction between status/class that I believe will be Egypt's biggest challenge in forming a democracy, meaning "one man, one vote" - and one woman, one vote.
I was intrigued by you stating that the class mentality in Egypt will have an affect on voting and democratic reform. Not sure how you believe that could happen and what you based that opinion on?
"What will be most difficult for Egyptians is the idea of EQUALITY - that each voice, and vote, has the same value - that the dark skinned Nubian, the baweb's daughter, and the Christian shop keeper all have the same right to express their opinion at the polling booth as the wealthy businessman living in a villa in 6 October."
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Sex, brothels and the REAL tyranny threatening the Arab world: Islamic fundamentalists are already imposing their own brutal puritanism
By John R Bradley Last updated at 12:54 AM on 26th February 2011
A few hundred metres from the main mosque in the heart of Tunis’s old quarter lies Abdallah Guech Street, a red-light district which has thrived since the 19th century. Here, the Ottomans legalised and regulated prostitution — as they had in much of the rest of the Muslim world. Uniquely, though, in the Arab world, the tradition in Tunisia endured. Every one of the country’s historic quarters boasts bordellos; even, most remarkably, Kairouan, Islam’s fourth holiest city after Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.
In keeping with Tunisia’s deep-rooted secularism and unprecedented championing of Muslim women’s rights, the prostitutes carry cards issued by the Interior Ministry, pay taxes like everyone else and enjoy (along with their clients) the full protection of the law.
But last week, faster than you could scream ‘Allahu Akbar’, hundreds of Islamists raided Abdallah Guech Street armed with Molotov cocktails and knives, torching the brothels, yelling insults at the prostitutes and declaring that Tunisia was now an Islamist state.
As soldiers fired into the air to disperse them, the Islamists won a promise from the interim government that the brothels would be permanently closed.
In other cities, brothels were targeted, too; and there have been demonstrations throughout the country — whose economy is heavily dependent on the vibrant tourism industry — against the sale of alcohol.
Suspected Islamists otherwise preoccupied themselves with slitting the throat of a Polish Catholic priest, which, if confirmed, would be the first such sectarian murder in modern Tunisian history. And anti-Semitic slogans could be heard outside Tunisia’s main synagogue: this in a country with no history of persecution of its Jewish minority.
When the Tunisian revolution started last month, it was hailed as a template for the rest of the Arab world. But if revolutions are judged by their outcomes rather than their intentions, then the story of post-revolution Tunisia is equally instructive.
The world’s attention has quickly moved on — to Egypt, Bahrain, Libya or the next theatre of this extraordinary, fast-moving drama.
The phrase ‘Arab Spring’ is being touted as if we were witnessing an unambiguous leap forward for ordinary Arabs: history marching towards democracy and pluralism.
No one wishes to contemplate, let alone prepare for, the alternative — that this might end in the restoration of authoritarian rule or, worse, the triumph of a radical Islam.
Talk of a new era of freedom is hugely premature. The truth is Islamic fundamentalists, under the cloak of democracy, are already imposing their own brutal puritanism
When David Cameron visited Egypt this week, there were too few signs of the budding liberal democracy which he and other Western leaders had envisioned. He could hardly congratulate his host, a former Air Force commander, for what was, in effect, another military coup. There was no Lech Walesa figure for him to meet, no secular democratic champion of the new Egypt.
The Muslim Brotherhood remains the only political group of any note. The key to being optimistic about Egypt’s future — and the Arab world more generally — is not to look too closely at what is happening on the ground. And to pay as little attention as possible to the events in Tunisia.
For all its restrictions on direct political participation, for decades, Tunisia was the most secular and progressive country the Islamic world has ever known. The regime was the least brutal in the region, its people the wealthiest and best educated.
The poverty level was just 4 per cent when the revolution broke out, which is among the lowest in the world.
Eighty per cent of the population belonged to the middle class. And the education system — allocated more funding than the army — ranked 17th globally in terms of quality. The veil was banned in public institutions, polygamy was outlawed, mosques were shuttered outside prayer times, and men needed permission from the local police to grow a beard.
It was the only Muslim country where abortion was legal, where frank sex education was compulsory in schools, and where children had it drummed into their heads that religion and politics were distinct and separate.
Radical Islamists opposed to this strict secular order were either exiled or imprisoned. Now, however, with the collapse of the old order, the Islamists are starting to come back — with a vengeance.
At least one group saw the warning signs. A few weeks before the Islamist-led violence, a small and peaceful protest was held by secular women against any move towards a more Islamist way of life.
Restored order? Radical Islamists opposed to strict secular order were either exiled or imprisoned. Now, however, with the collapse of the old order, the Islamists are starting to come back - with a vengeance
They gathered when news broke of the imminent return from exile in London of 69-year-old Rachid Ghannouchi, the ‘moderate’ leader of Tunisia’s (previously banned) Ennahdha Islamist movement.
Ghannouchi has been careful to distance himself from the subsequent violence. But in retrospect, the women clearly had genuine cause for concern, both at his return and the simultaneous mass release of Islamists from Tunisia’s prisons — and all in the name of the country’s new pluralism.
The West, it seems to me, should be equally troubled. If these notoriously ‘moderate’ Islamists, while still a minority and in the infancy of their campaign, can hijack such a modern, sophisticated and secular Arab country in a matter of days, what could await the wider region, where secularism is already anathema and Wahhabi-inspired Islam has, in many instances, a firm foothold?
The Islamists have, through hate campaigns, set the social agenda in Tunisia even before elections have been proposed. Without a similarly assertive counterpart, there is every chance they will also fill the power vacuum being created from Cairo to Tripoli.
Egypt is the Arab world’s most populous nation, with a long tradition, like Tunisia, of tolerant and liberal Islam. The slogans on placards gave the West plenty of cause for hope, as did the westernised Egyptians who tweeted their commentary in English.
But placards are a poor proxy for the vox populi. In fact, the social decay during Hosni Mubarak’s three decades in power strongly increased the Islamists’ appeal — which Mubarak, in turn, exaggerated to keep Washington’s calls for reform at a whisper.
One month before Mubarak’s downfall, a poll conducted by the Pew Research Center found that a majority of Egyptians support stoning as a punishment for adultery, hand amputation for theft, and death for those who convert from Islam to another religion.
Sensing their moment may be nigh, the Muslim Brotherhood — harbouring a long-cherished goal of establishing an Islamist state in Egypt — is already increasing its sway in the post-revolutionary land of the Pharaohs.
Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the fundamentalist group’s spiritual guide made famous by his weekly television show on Al Jazeera, visited Cairo recently to deliver a political sermon to a five million-strong crowd of the Egyptian faithful in Tahrir Square.
If, as seems inevitable, the Brotherhood gains sway over the government by joining in a coalition when parliamentary elections are held, it will find itself in a position to put the institutional heft of the Egyptian state behind its puritanical agenda.
This would dismay most Egyptians who, while vaguely sympathetic to the Brotherhood’s goals, for the most part have no longing to live in an Iranian-style theocracy. But neither did the Iranians before the ayatollahs took power.
As a hint of what might be in store for Egypt, consider the city of Alexandria.
Once it was a cosmopolitan summer resort famous for its secular, carefree atmosphere. Now it is about the least fun place to live in North Africa.
All Muslim women in the city are veiled — among the young, often for fear of otherwise being labelled a whore.
Violence between local Christians and Muslims is commonplace (23 Christians were killed by a bomb planted in a Coptic Orthodox church on New Year’s Day). Most bars have stopped serving alcohol, and the only women to be found on the beaches, even in the height of summer, are those taking care of their children — and they are invariably covered from head to toe in black. It is a great mistake to assume democracy is an enemy of Islamism. When the gift of democracy is unwrapped in the Arab world, Islamists frequently spring out of the box.
The jihadis may be despised by most Muslims, but often in Arab countries, only about 20 to 40 per cent of the population vote. It is by no means impossible for the Islamists to secure a majority from the minority because their supporters are the most fanatical.
Whatever the theory of democratisation in the Arab world, the history is clear: where democracy, however tentatively, has already been introduced, it is the Islamists who have come to power.
Democracy came to Morocco, and now the fundamentalist Party for Justice and Development (PJD) increases its number of seats at each election: it is only a matter of time before the party forms a majority in parliament.
Democracy came to Gaza, and the Islamist group Hamas took power. In Bahrain, following democratic reforms a decade ago, there is now a fundamentalist Sunni block dominating the elected chamber — despite the fact that the country’s population is 70 per cent Shia.
Ditto Yemen. Even in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood was officially outlawed, the group won a quarter of the parliamentary seats up for grabs six years ago.
But the Islamists seldom want to take control of the government machine; they have little interest in setting tax or energy policy. The influence they seek is cultural totalitarianism.
Bereft of sensible — let alone practical — solutions to the real ills that plague their societies, they aim to Islamise society from below. And principally by tackling a subject close to everyone’s heart: sex.
The events in Tunisia are merely an echo of what has been happening in the region for a decade.
In Yemen, Islamists have long since been busy raiding alleged brothels and campaigning against all other forms of what they denounce — wrongly — as imported western decadence.
In Bahrain, too, the Islamists have explicitly dedicated themselves to clamping down on prostitution and the sale of alcohol.
In Tunisia and Egypt, the Islamists have quickly ruled out running for the all-important presidency. They do not seek to lead a government, because with that power comes responsibility and accountability.
What they need is a government sufficiently biddable to allow them to impose their cultural tyranny — and to succeed, they don’t need majority support. All the Islamists require is to be louder, more forceful and better organised than their opponents.
It would be foolish to argue that Arabs are somehow incapable of stable democratic government. There is, indeed, a chance that they are setting out on a turbulent path to a brighter future, free from repressive dogma.
But in a region that confounds analysts’ predictions on a daily basis, only one thing can be said with certainty: it is far too soon to declare any kind of triumph.
Is there any site that is offering English translations of all these statements on the facebook page? They are done as pictures so I can't copy and paste them into Google Translate for what it's worth!
I googled and found nothing.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
AJE reporting on proposed changes to the constitution right now.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
An army-appointed legal commission announced Saturday a package of proposed constitutional amendments that eased restrictions on eligibility conditions for presidential elections, limited the number of presidential terms to two four-year periods and ensured full judicial monitoring of elections.
To satisfy political forces calling for the promulgation of a new constitution, the commission made it compulsory for the next parliament to draft one.
After nearly ten days of deliberation, the eight-member commission unveiled modifications introduced to eight constitutional articles that should ensure fair and free presidential and parliamentary elections.
Two articles dealt specifically with the presidential poll. With nationalist motives, article 75 was modified to guarantee that Egypt’s next president is born to two Egyptians parents and cannot marry a non-Egyptian. The old version did not include any conditions pertaining to the president’s wife.
Meanwhile, article 76 was modified to ease draconian restrictions on presidential nominations. The commission set three methods for candidacy: a presidential hopeful should either be endorsed by 30 members from one of the parliament’s two chambers or both, garner 30,000 signatures from Egyptians living in 15 provinces or belong to a party that has at least one seat in the People’s Assembly or the Shura Council.
These modifications could be seen as a significant leap from the restrictions of the old constitution. Mubarak’s regime had set defeating conditions requiring a candidate to either secure at least 250 signatures from the parliament and municipal councils or belong to a five-year-old party that holds 3 percent of contested parliamentary seats. As an exception to this provision, the article says, parties who hold one parliamentary seat can field a candidate until 2017.
Given the concentration of power in the hands of Mubarak’s formerly ruling National Democratic Party, these conditions were not seen as conducive to genuine multi-party presidential elections.
“I am very satisfied, it is a historic achievement,” Sobhi Saleh, a lawyer and the commission’s member, told Al-Masry Al-Youm.
Last week representatives from the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, which is in charge of running the country during the interim period, said in a televised interview that the commission’s suggested amendments would be subject to a public debate before being finalized.
In the meantime, the commission proposed an end to the legacy of eternal rulers. By amending article 77 and setting a limit on presidential terms, the commission did away with a constitutional order that gave the president the right to run for indefinite consecutive 6-year terms.
Article 139 was changed to make it obligatory for the next president to appoint a deputy within the first two months of coming to power. If the president decides to sack him, a substitute must be appointed. For thirty years, Mubarak resisted appointing a deputy, which enraged the opposition.
“He [Mubarak] used to run the country while lying in hospitals inside and outside Egypt; he had no deputy. Could that be acceptable?” asked Atef El-Banna, professor of constitutional law at Cairo University and also on the commission.
“He did not want to appoint a vice-president and many people saw that as a sign ensuring hereditary sucession,” added El-Banna.
To guarantee the integrity of upcoming polls, the commission modified article 88 making full judicial oversight necessary from start to finish .
“The changes ensure complete judicial monitoring, from voter lists to the announcement of results,” said Saleh, adding that the commission also suggested changes that would allow voters to use national identification cards rather than voting cards. For decades, the opposition has complained that voting cards facilitate the falsification of polls.
Before 2007, the constitution guaranteed full judicial oversight. But in a move widely dismissed as an attempt to make electoral fraud easy, the Mubarak regime changed article 88 to delegate electoral oversight to a government-appointed judicial commission.
The commission also appeased those who demanded the abrogation rather than the amendment of the existing constitution. Article 189 on mechanisms to amend the constitution was modified to ensure that the next elected parliament use a 100-member elected commission to draft a new constitution within the first six months after its election. The commission, furthermore, will be expected to complete its mission within another six months.
“We added this amendment in order to be able to change flaws that we could not fix this time,” said Saleh.
The army is reluctant to abolish the constitution during the six-month transitional period and asked the commission to modify only provisions dealing with the nitty-gritty details of elections.
Some opposition members expected changes to articles that give sweeping powers to the president. But commission members believe they achieved this to some extent.
“We limited some of the president’s authority over critical matters including the right to declare a state of emergency,” said El-Banna.
El-Banna and his peers announced changes to article 148 dealing with this particular matter. The new article makes the declaration of a state of emergency contingent upon the approval of the People’s Assembly. If the president decides to apply Emergency Law for longer than six months, a public referendum will be held. The old version, failed to set a time limit, which gave Mubarak leeway to renew Emergency Law for 30 years. This allowed his regime to perpetrate notorious human rights abuses.
By the same token, the commission proposed the abrogation of the unpopular article 179, which granted the government the right to infringe upon human and personal rights under the pretext of combating terror.
Moreover, the commission changed article 93, which granted the People’s Assembly the exclusive right to decide upon the validity of parliamentary membership and ignore court verdicts that deemed thousands of memberships nil in the past. The new version makes the Supreme Constitutional Court the ultimate arbitrator on contested memberships.
“We are putting them [amendments] to public debate now,” Saleh said. “If there is a substantive challenge, we will take it into consideration.”
A national referendum on the final changes is expected to be held within a few weeks.
In Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s writings on problems with democracy, he points out that one advantage of monarchy over democracy is that there is a clearer distinction between the ruler and the ruled; so that if the monarch starts to become despotic, he can at least in principle be killed or removed from power. At least the people know who to aim their ire at. In democracy, the state is bureaucratized and distributed, and the line between ruler and ruled is blurred–because citizens can vote, they accept the propaganda that “we are the government.”
Recent protests in Egypt, Libya, Bahrain, and Yemen help illustrate this–there, the people are fed up with rule by brutal strongmen, thugs and dictators, so demand their ouster. Success is not guaranteed but the people at least have a target for their anger. In the western democracies, protests of this type are inconceivable. Half the country voted for Obama, so there would never be mass protests. And he’ll be out of office in 2 or 6 years in any case, so why bother protesting to kick him out a bit earlier. And even if he is somehow ousted, he’ll be replaced with another plastic man. While regicide is possible with a monarchy or even dictatorship, it’s not so easy to decapitate a democratic state; it’s more like a hydra. The most we can expect in a democracy are protests by special interest groups demanding more loot from the state (such as the pathetic protests by the state teachers’ unions in Wisconsin) or reform of a particular law (such as medical marijuana or gay marriage). And when 5% of the populace pays most of the income tax, don’t expect widespread protests against confiscatory tax rates.
This is not to say that rule by dictatorial thugs is preferable to modern democracy–Hoppe’s work compares modern democracy to limited, traditional monarchies, not to dictators and absolute emperors–but it does help highlight why it’s so difficult to reform a democratic state.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Shooting of a minibus driver by a police officer today in Maadi
The driver did not die and the officer wast beaten up and is a lying low life scumbag.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
What is the reasoning behind one of the amendments of the constitution concerning the presidents wife having to be Egyptian? Are there some possible candidates that have foreign wives?
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Mrs Mubarak was half welsh, wasn't she? Maybe it's something to do with that - conflict of interests, maybe.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I believe Zoeil and Elbaz are married to non-Egyptian women.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Not familiar with either of them, anything to say about them this, or is it a non issue since they won't be able to run anyways.
edited
Do you think they added this new clause to rule out certain ppl?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I don't really know but if they run neither one would win in my opinion as I don't think they're known to the majority of Egyptians and have not history in Egypt. And in that sense this specific amendment has no effect as the new government should scrap the constitution altogether and write a brand new one. Not sure why they bothered with something so minor and inconsequential at this time. It is a bit risky to add something like that specially that the vote on the amendments will be to accept them all or none. So there's chance the few will vote against the amendments just because of that single item.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: What is the reasoning behind one of the amendments of the constitution concerning the presidents wife having to be Egyptian? Are there some possible candidates that have foreign wives?
Sadat's wife was also only half Egyptian or was she completely non-Egyptian.
Anyhow Jahan and Suzanne are very good reason not to, both had made some pretty condescending comments about the masses, especially Egyptian women at times.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: I believe Zoeil and Elbaz are married to non-Egyptian women.
Zoeil is married to either a Jordanian or a Syrian. Either way Zoeil spent about 5 chapters of his book complaining about his ex wife and a good chunk of 2 chapters professing this belief that Egyptian women are the lowest of Arab women.
He spends half his book discussing his life and his work, 1/10 of it talking about brain drain's effect on Egypt, another 1/10 discussing Egypt's future, and the rest bitching about his ex-wife.
Zoeil has hit his peak for this profession, now if he would just drowned in a bath tub he'd be better off.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Weeks later, they finally put a Travel Ban on Mubarak and his family today. Why now?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
حالة من الجدل تنتاب الأوساط الحقوقية عقب الإعلان عن موافقة المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة عن التعديلات التي أدخلتها اللجنة التشريعية المشكلة برئاسة المستشار طارق البشري ما بين مؤيد ومعارض لتلك التعديلات فرحبت مؤسسة ماعت للسلام والتنمية وحقوق الإنسان برئاسة أيمن عقيل بما انتهت إليه لجنة تعديل الدستور من صياغة جديدة لتسعة مواد دستورية ، خاصة المواد المنظمة لانتخاب رئيس الجمهورية (75-76-77 )، وكذلك المواد المتعلقة بالإشراف على انتخابات مجلس الشعب (88 ) ، والمادة (93) المعنية بالفصل في عضوية أعضاء المجلس وقالت ماعت في بيان أصدرته اليوم الأثنين بأن التعديلات جاءت متوافقة مع رؤيتها التي قدمتها بعد تشكيل اللجنة في تقرير مفصل تم نشره منذ أسبوعين، والذي أكدت فيه على ضرورة أن لا يكون التعديل مانعا لحق مواطن في ترشيح نفسه طالما توافرت فيه الشروط وطالبت ماعت بضرورة طرح التعديلات الدستورية للنقاش العام قبل طرحها للاستفتاء ، لضمان استيعابها من قبل المواطنين وعلى الجانب الأخر أعلن المركز المصري للحقوق الاقتصادية والاجتماعية برئاسة المحامى خالد علي عن تأييده للعديد من التعديلات التي قامت بها اللجنة وترحيبه بها مثل فترات الرئاسة، ومدتها، وطريقة إعلان حالة الطوارئ أو مدها،واختلافه مع بعض المقترحات التي أعلنتها اللجنة، وطالب المصري للحقوق السياسية والإقتصادية المجلس العسكري بحث تلك المقترحات والاستجابة إليها وذكر المركز أن يختلف مع ما ورد بالمادة 75 من اشتراط عدم زواج المرشح الرئاسي من غير مصرية فهذا الشرط يخالف مبادئ المحكمة الدستورية التي قضت في الحكم رقم 23 لسنة 16 قضائية بعدم دستورية البند السادس من المادة 73 من قانون مجلس الدولة والتي كانت تشترط على من يعين بالقضاء ألا يكون متزوجا من أجنبية حيث أكدت المحكمة أن اختيار الزوج جزء من الحرية الشخصية التي لا يجوز تقيدها ووصفت مثل هذا الشرط بأنه يهدر الحق في المساواة بين المواطنين والحق في تكافوء الفرص بينهما، وبالتالي قضت بعدم دستوريته، ومن ثم لا يقبل وضع مثل هذا القيد في نص دستوري على حق من الحقوق العامة.
وأضاف المركز في بيان أصدره صباح اليوم أن التعديلات المقترحة على المادة 75 جعلت الحد الأدنى لسن الترشيح لمنصب رئاسة الجمهورية 40 سنة، كما أنها لم تضع حد أقصى لسن المرشح، والأصل الدستوري أنه لا يجوز الفصل بين حقي الانتخاب والترشيح باعتبارهما حقين متلازمين فمن يملك حق الانتخاب يملك حق الترشيح مشددا على أنه لاينبغي على اللجنة الخروج عن الأصل العام والاستناد إلى تقديرات أعضائها واقترح المركز ألا يقل سن المرشح عند تقديم أوراق الترشيح عن 35 سنة حتى نفتح الباب لقاعدة أوسع من المواطنين، ولما كانت مدة الرئاسة فى التعديلات المقترحة محددة بأربع سنوات نقترح النص فى المادة 75 على ألا يزيد سن المرشح وقت تقديم أوراق الترشيح عن 66 سنة وذلك حتى لا يتجاوز عمر رئيس الجمهورية 70 عاما.
واقترح المصري للحقوق الاقتصادية والاجتماعية أيضا حذف النص الخاص باشتراط قبول أوراق الترشيح لانتخابات رئاسة الجمهورية تأييد ثلاثون عضوا من مجلسي الشعب والشورى لطلب المرشح، أو تأييد ما لا يقل عن ثلاثين ألف مواطن من خمس عشرة محافظة من المادة 76 والاكتفاء بالاكتفاء بما ورد من شروط في المادة 75 وأن نترك للشعب المفاضلة بين المرشحين عبر الانتخابات، فلا يجب أن نثقل الحق في الترشيح بالعديد من القيود التي تقلص دائرة الاختيار بين الناخبين، وان نلتزم بالأصل العام بأن من يملك حق الانتخاب يملك حق الترشيح، ولا نخرج على هذا الأصل إلا في أضيق الحدود كما رفض المركز ما ذهبت إليه المادة 76 من جعل قرارات اللجنة المشرفة على الانتخابات الرئاسية نهائية ونافذة بذاتها وغير قابله للطعن عليها، وطالب بعدم تحصين أي عمل أو قرار عن رقابة القضاء فمهما كانت المهام التي تقوم بها اللجنة، ومهما كان تقديرنا لأعضائها -المحددين بطريقة موضوعية في المقترحات- فمن غير المقبول إهدار الحق في التقاضي باعتباره أهم صورة من صور الرقابة الشعبية لضمان صحة ونزاهة العملية الانتخابية.
واختلف المركز أيضا مع الفقرة الأولى من المادة 88 التي نصت على عرض القانون المنظم للانتخابات الرئاسية على المحكمة الدستورية قبل إقراره، وهو ما يعنى انحياز اللجنة للرقابة الدستورية السابقة على إقرار القانون وشدد المركز على أن من شأن ذلك أن يحصن القانون من إمكانية الطعن على نصوصه أمام المحكمة الدستورية العليا.
كما اختلف المركز مع الفقرة الأخيرة من المادة 88 أيضا والتي تنص على إجراء الاقتراع والفرز تحت إشراف أعضاء من الهيئات القضائية وهو ما يتيح إشراف أعضاء من هيئة قضايا الدولة على عمليات الانتخاب الأمر الذي لا يستقيم مع طبيعة وظيفة أعضائها كمحامين للحكومة يتولوا الدفاع عنها أمام المحاكم.
ولفت المركز إلى رفضه الشديد للتعديل الحادث على المادة 93 من الدستور والتى أحالت للمحكمة الدستورية الفصل في صحة عضوية أعضاء مجلس الشعب مؤكدا أنه من الملائم أن يترك أمر الفصل في مثل هذه المنازعات للمحكمة الإدارية العليا أو لمحكمة النقض، وأن تظل الدستورية العليا تمارس مهامها برقابة دستورية القوانين، والتفسير، وتنازع الاختصاص، دون أن نثقلها بمهام أخرى كما طالب المركز بتعديل المادة 139 لكي يتم انتخاب نائب رئيس الجمهورية شأنه شأن الرئيس، وطالب المركز بإلغاء ما جاء في المادة 189 والتي جعلت تشكيل الجمعية التأسيسية لوضع الدستور من مائة عضو من أعضاء مجلسي الشعب والشورى من غير المعينين، وطالب المركز بأن تكون الجمعية التأسيسية من الكفاءات التي تمثل جميع القوى السياسية والاجتماعية والثقافية والدينية وكافة الفئات والمهن، فمن ناحية فقد لا تكون كل هذه الأطياف ممثلة في المجلسين، ومن ناحية ثانية فهذه التعديلات ستجعل القوى السياسية صاحبة الأغلبية في المجلسين تنفرد بوضع الدستور وانتقد المركز تجاهل التعديلات المقترحة وضع تعديلات تكفل وتضمن حق المصريين في الخارج في التصويت سواء عبر الاستفتاءات العامة أو الانتخابات العامة.
واختتم المركز بيانه بالتأكيد على أن الدستور الحالي يحتاج إلى تغيير كامل.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Postponed reopening the Bourse again. I think they just have to suck it and see. They did say that they would stop trading at particular levels and whenever they open it, there will probably be a drop. GM Egypt are proposing to invest $175million
Some foreign investors are looking to buy cheap because stocks bought when other countries have been revolutions have done extremely well so it might not be as drastic as some think after the first few rocky days.
The decision to freeze former President Hosni Mubarak and his family’s assets and ban him and his family from traveling abroad was based on a complaint filed by Mustafa Bakri against Mubarak and his acquisition of wealth, said Head of Giza Criminal Court Mohammed Abdel Latif Hamza.
Hamza did not rule out the possibility that suspicions raised over the Bibliotheca Alexandrina’s funds, which were registered in the name of Mrs. Suzanne Mubarak, could also be a major reason for the decision. He said Mubarak would likely be charged with of profiteering and facilitating the acquisition of public funds.
Hamzah went on to say that he expected Mubarak to face three to five years of hard labor and that his two, Alaa and Gamal, would be considered partners in crime for exploiting their father’s influence as president of the country. Hamza said he expects the investigations to reveal forged documents.
Meanwhile, law expert Shawky al-Sayed said the Attorney General’s decision affirms that no one is above the law, including the former president and his family, and that it is a natural result of an awakening national consciousness.
Al-Sayed said that Mubarak is expected to be convicted of smuggling money abroad and of abusing his influence, which are criminal rather than political offenses. He went on to say that if convicted of committing state security crimes in Egypt and abroad, Mubarak may be exposed to even higher penalties.
quote:Originally posted by Laura: The decision to freeze former President Hosni Mubarak and his family’s assets and ban him and his family from traveling abroad was based on a complaint filed by Mustafa Bakri against Mubarak and his acquisition of wealth, said Head of Giza Criminal Court Mohammed Abdel Latif Hamza.
Hamza did not rule out the possibility that suspicions raised over the Bibliotheca Alexandrina’s funds, which were registered in the name of Mrs. Suzanne Mubarak, could also be a major reason for the decision. He said Mubarak would likely be charged with of profiteering and facilitating the acquisition of public funds.
Hamzah went on to say that he expected Mubarak to face three to five years of hard labor and that his two, Alaa and Gamal, would be considered partners in crime for exploiting their father’s influence as president of the country. Hamza said he expects the investigations to reveal forged documents.
Meanwhile, law expert Shawky al-Sayed said the Attorney General’s decision affirms that no one is above the law, including the former president and his family, and that it is a natural result of an awakening national consciousness.
Al-Sayed said that Mubarak is expected to be convicted of smuggling money abroad and of abusing his influence, which are criminal rather than political offenses. He went on to say that if convicted of committing state security crimes in Egypt and abroad, Mubarak may be exposed to even higher penalties.
Well I can honestly say I didn't think they would do it, but this is the best news so far today. Thanks Laura!
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
I had a feeling this was coming Ayisha, when I read they had placed a travel ban on him/family. Bravo EGYPT!!!!
Hard Labor - Images of him and sons being hooked up to donkey carts comes to mind.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
This bit raises 'hope' to an even higher status.
"Attorney General’s decision affirms that no one is above the law, including the former president and his family, and that it is a natural result of an awakening national consciousness."
It's about time! Sons of Pharaoh did GOOD!!! Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: I had a feeling this was coming Ayisha, when I read they had placed a travel ban on him/family. Bravo EGYPT!!!!
Hard Labor - Images of him and sons being hooked up to donkey carts comes to mind.
Plenty of donkeys and carts here, nice sugar cane fields he can work in from 4am we can even supply a nice dirty galabaya
Further down the Nile a few quarries they can break rocks in
We could have them learn to carve granite statues of wael ghonim and I think one of the famous (now) pic of the boy on the roof with the flag (love that pic!)
babaMu, the future is BRIGHT! Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
I wonder how long before they have enough evidence against Suzanne for her alleged embezzling from her "Charities".
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Re the Bourse and fears of small investors losing everything - I'm sure they could come up with some kind of plan - eg define 'small investor' fix a value date from before the revolution - say I don't know, January 24th, have the government buy their shares at that price, then give small investors the opportunity to buy the shares back at that price in say 1 year's time + a % of any increase in value above that price say what they could get in a deposit account. Of course, define small investor! I have no idea what the typical investment by individuals in the Egyptian stock market is. Or maybe make it a protection of 75% of the value of the stocks at a given date. They do need to open up and start letting things find their market price and whenever they do it, it is likely to fall initially.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Well they have to reopen soon, or else they will lose their membership in the Exchange, from what I have read.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
They didn't have a choice but to freeze Mubarak's assets because there is a group of prominent lawyers who started legal actions even a week or so before he stepped down. Alyoum Alsabe3 published documents that shows Mubarak transferring 620 Million dollars to a swiss account on February 07,2011. They are exposing their assets right around the world and the Egyptian authority have no choice but to investigate their claims.
أقام عدد من المواطنين دعاوى قضائية أمام محكمة القضاء الإدارى ضد اللجنة القضائية المكلفة بتعديل بعض مواد الدستور برئاسة المستشار طارق البشري ، يطالبون فيها بإلغاء التعديل الذى إقترحته اللجنة لإلغاء شرط ازدواج الجنسية أوالزواج من أجنبية فى مقترحات التعديل الدستورى وقانون مباشرة الحقوق السياسية للشروط الواجب توافرها فى مرشحى انتخابات الرئاسة، وانتخابات مجلس الشعب القادمة، وطالب المواطنون بأحقية مزدوجى الجنسية فى خوض انتخابات الرئاسة، وحق المصريين المقيمين بالخارج فى الإدلاء بأصواتهم فى الانتخابات التشريعية خارج البلاد. وشدد المواطنون في دعاويهم على أنه ليس من المقبول معاقبة الذين يرغبون فى خدمة بلادهم والعودة إليها من حق الترشيح لانتخابات الرئاسة ومجلس الشعب بدعوى ازدواج الجنسية، أو الزواج من سيدة أجنبية أوتحمل الجنسية الأجنبية، رغم توافر الشروط الأخرى عليه. كما طالبوا في دعاويهم المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة بمراعاة حق المصريين المغتربين فى الإدلاء بأصواتهم فى الانتخابات البرلمانية والرئاسية وعدم حرمانهم من مباشرة حقوقهم السياسية إرساء لمبدأ الديمقراطية فى المرحلة الجديدة.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Prime minister Ahmad Shafik gets and a shouting match with writer Alaa Alaswany!
“I would love to see this group fighting [sexual] harassment and not promoting the fact the one foreigner was assaulted,” wrote one female commentator by the name of Arwa Atef Shalaby.
“We all get assaulted; it happens everywhere to all of us. No girl in Egypt or any country was not harassed by a guy. I think that’s just life, there are perverts all over the world it has nothing to do with the revolution.”
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
I agree with the first part, disagree with the second.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Ironic that people should plan a demo to protest about a journalist getting felt up. In the past 8 years or so, in Iraq and elswhere, reporters have been routinely slaughtered [in a friendly way] and no doubt any protests would be viewed as 'insurgence' and result in another massacre. And so it goes... different strokes..
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Yes, you're right Dalia, it is an exaggeration, but I do think that this idea is like a slap in the face to every Egyptian woman who has encountered harassment, and it's mostly ignored.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Shafiq Resigns
Essam Sharaf new PM
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egyptian ex-leader Hosni Mubarak to be questioned in Cairo over alleged corruption, prosecutor's office quoted as saying.
-CNN
More good news.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
he'll probably be in a wheelchair and black out....dont think they will get much outta him...money or sence.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: he'll probably be in a wheelchair and black out....dont think they will get much outta him...money or sence.
Probably. But the image of him in court will be priceless.
I'll be content with his wife and son(s) in prison. Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian ex-leader Hosni Mubarak to be questioned in Cairo over alleged corruption, prosecutor's office quoted as saying.
-CNN
More good news.
Do you think he is really going to say ANYTHING near the truth?
As we say in my country....Pigs may fly.........
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egyptian ex-leader Hosni Mubarak to be questioned in Cairo over alleged corruption, prosecutor's office quoted as saying.
-CNN
More good news.
Do you think he is really going to say ANYTHING near the truth?
As we say in my country....Pigs may fly.........
30 years in power, there must be a paper trail. A decent prosecutor with resources can nail him. Heck the prosecutor can even make a deal with a smaller fish to rat out the tyrant.
So whether he says anything or not is irrelevant. The point is he will be in court for corruption and for an Egyptian/Arab president I think that's unprecedented.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
I am keeping my fingers crossed.......... Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: I am keeping my fingers crossed..........
It would be nice if someone loudly called him something not so nice. I mean just two months ago, such a heckler would have disappeared. He actually deserves a shoe, or at the very list a dirty soled ship-ship. Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Bravo for them!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Shafiq Resigns
Essam Sharaf new PM
المثير أن قيادات بالمجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة كانت تشاهد الحلقة على الهواء مباشرة، وتأكدت حينها من ضعف شخصية أحمد شفيق وعدم قدرته على إدارة الحوار، وافتقاده لأدوات الرجل السياسي، كما كشفت الحلقة عن حجم الغضب الشعبي الكبير نحوه، فصدر قرارا بإقالته من منصبه وتكليف د. عصام شرف لرئاسة الحكومة بدلا منه.
Sources say that the supreme council of the armed forces were watching the program live on TV and decided to fire him when they saw him lose his temper. About time.......
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
جامعة القاهرة خالية من الشرطة للمرة الأولى منذ 40 عاما
كشف مصدر قضائي للدستور الأصلي، فضل عدم ذكر اسمه، عن أن هناك عدد كبير من القضاة قد قرروا الدخول في إضراب مفتوح عن العمل في جميع محاكم مصر وفي جميع النيابات في حال استمرار تولي المستشار ممدوح مرعي منصب وزير العدل، حيث ترددت أنباء عن استقبال عصام شرف رئيس الوزراء الجديد للمستشار ممدوح مرعي وزير العدل، وهو ما فسر بوجود نية لاستمراره في الوزارة.
Next comes the interior minister.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
What a weasel. Like he didn't know what had been taken. They could have at least released descriptions to try to intercept them when they went out of the country.
Can't believe I liked him. I feel cheated. I don't think resignation is quite enough myself.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: جامعة القاهرة خالية من الشرطة للمرة الأولى منذ 40 عاما
This is great news. Policing university campuses should never ever be relegated to the ministry of interior again.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Egyptians turn revolutionaries. People gets wild. those microbus drivers Thugs turn more mean and rudely revolutionaries.
I believe No country in the world will be able to bear all these protestings, demonstartions in month period. we need a fire cease. we need patience.
SHAME on Thawragia( revolutionaries). Can't you stop for a while to re-organize the stuff again.
Counrty is now driven by Thawragia without any leadership or stop Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
إطلاق رصاص حى وقنابل مسيلة للدموع بسجن شبين الكوم يتسبب فى مقتل بعضهم
Now Egypt will never gets the Nefertiti bust back. Good for us.
Enjoy a lovely retirement, Dr. Hawass. You have been an excellent egyptologist - with sometimes a fiercy tongue. It's on other people now to protect and maintain Egypt's historical treasures; many more will be found in the future.
Thank you for all of your achievements.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Now Egypt will never gets the Nefertiti bust back. Good for us.
Hawass was a civil servant and nothing more. The Nefertiti Bust is an eternal antiquity that belongs to Egypt. I could very imagine a responsible German government being more accommodating to a democratic Egypt.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Gamal Mubarak attempted suicide with poisoned tea
Who comes up with such a stupid sh#t????
If I had to guess, probably the same type of people that spread such nonsense. Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Mubarak faces corruption probe on gas to Israel, warrants for Israeli, US partners
This could get interesting...
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
The new prime minister went to the square today.
Best Wishes for the new government.
We want to see the government walking with us in the street. may be it is dangerous?
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Well as long as the protests last the economy incl. tourism will be in the gutter.
Instead of changing and changing again heads in the government, people should let start ministers to work on some progress.
And hence elections have to be organized, parties need to be formed. Possible candidates have to be able to displays their agendas with enough time so people are sure who to vote for.
If not carefully managed Egypt will go from one fiasco into another one.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Well as long as the protests last the economy incl. tourism will be in the gutter.
Instead of changing and changing again heads in the government, people should let start ministers to work on some progress.
And hence elections have to be organized, parties need to be formed. Possible candidates have to be able to displays their agendas with enough time so people are sure who to vote for.
If not carefully managed Egypt will go from one fiasco into another one.
After an invite from Egypt’s tourism minister Oprah to host a live show from Tahrir Square
Because women were left off the committee to revise the constitution, many worry that their demands will not be heard in a post-Mubarak Egypt. In order to prevent that, a number of activists--men and women--are planning a Million Woman March for 3PM on Tuesday, 8 March (which is also International Women's Day) in Tahrir Square.
"This is a continuation of the revolution," said one of the organizers, Aalam Wassef last night in Tahrir, where he planned to spend the night. "We don't fear that women will be left out, we know they will be," said Wassef. The highlighting of women's rights, according to Wassef, builds upon the solidarity that was a major characteristic of the revolution, and also, most believe, a key to its success. "Everyone participated," Wassef said. "Everything was celebrated."
Yasmine Khalifa, an AUC graduate student in Womens Studies and another organizer, chimed in: "The slogan during the revolution was political, but it was also about solidarity."
Women's rights are a natural topic now that Mubarak has resigned and Egyptians can focus on more specific issues. One thing that Wassef and Khalifa are concerned about, and that will be highlighted in the Million Woman March, is the scrutiny of martyr Sally Zahran. In the photo of Zahran widely circulated following her murder, which has become a symbol of the regime's brutality, she is unveiled. According to Wassef and Khalifa, many criticize her for that, as well as bring into question the specifics of her death: was she really in Tahrir? That kind of suspicion is not something that either activist has witnessed being leveled on male martyrs, and is something they plan to address on Tuesday. "A martyr is a martyr, full stop," Wassef said. "With Sally, it became a question of character," added Khalifa.
On Tuesday, signs carried by protesters will celebrate women on an individual basis--as a sign-holder's sister, mother, or daughter--as well as the collective desires of Egyptian women. Foremost among those (which include demands of the revolution as a whole, like the ending of Emergency Law) are the abolishment of Article 2 of the constitution, which cites sharia law as the main source of legislation. In a religious government, women's rights are nullified, said Wassef and Khalifa.
The march will be women saying, "We are together, we are united. We are women who stand together, "Khalifa said. During the revolution, "We felt it. We lived it. And now it will be verbalized," said Wassef.
The Million Woman March will mark the beginning of a stretch devoted to the advancement of women's rights in Egypt, an ongoing cause punctuated by International Women's Day as well as Egyptian Women's Day (16 March) and Mother's Day (22 March). The march is being organized on the Facebook page, "Women for Democracy."
1.) Free College campuses. Who here ever entered an Egyptian college campus? A Thabit (officer) stands at the gate. Uniform idiots next to him. Undercover IN CAMPUS.
NOW CAMPUSES ARE FREE! Which human being would not be happy for college students. They were the revolution. ha'nin;kir
2.) Oprah. In Tahrir
AM I DREAMING!
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
Seems fighting has broken out, both here in Cairo and in Alexandria, at the um... can't remember the name, the headquarters for the place that's like the CIA. Gamina et dowla? I'm sure I'm not getting that right.
We have been able to hear some type of gun shots (or cannon or tear gas or whatever) off and on for the last several hours and only just found out what was happening by reading some news online.
I'm not sure what this is about? I guess it must be related to everything else going on but...
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Oprah won't come to midan el tahrir.
I got that she has a flu or may be ..
There will be an investigation tomorrow against mubarak. but I do not know more details.
I think They use the emergency law to detain mubarak for some time. Above all, This is his emergency law. He must taste the cake he made.
شماته ya3ny eh bel english??
اللهم لا شماته
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Oprah won't come to midan el tahrir.
I got that she has a flu or may be ..
There will be an investigation tomorrow against mubarak. but I do not know more details.
I think They use the emergency law to detain mubarak for some time. Above all, This is his emergency law. He must taste the cake he made.
شماته ya3ny eh bel english??
اللهم لا شماته
Oh Tariq, you don't understand.
Oprah can move mountains. If Oprah wants to do a show in Tahrir square the right connections will be pulled and there will be a day of absolute peace in Cairo. Like the 7th day of creation.
Thats the power of Oprah.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: Oprah won't come to midan el tahrir.
I got that she has a flu or may be ..
There will be an investigation tomorrow against mubarak. but I do not know more details.
I think They use the emergency law to detain mubarak for some time. Above all, This is his emergency law. He must taste the cake he made.
شماته ya3ny eh bel english??
اللهم لا شماته
If you don't like what you see do something about. Don't like "revolutionaries" do something about it, don't like micro bus drivers do something about them, don't want opera to come do something about. Enough fucking complaining and do something or shut up.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Well as long as the protests last the economy incl. tourism will be in the gutter.
Instead of changing and changing again heads in the government, people should let start ministers to work on some progress.
And hence elections have to be organized, parties need to be formed. Possible candidates have to be able to displays their agendas with enough time so people are sure who to vote for.
If not carefully managed Egypt will go from one fiasco into another one.
After an invite from Egypt’s tourism minister Oprah to host a live show from Tahrir Square
Aldostour: In bed with flu since Oscar show. Hearing reports that I'm taking show to Cairo. NOT TRUE. Have no plans to do so
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Mabaheth Amn Aldawal has been suspended till it is reformed. Hopefully never.
husseinelsaid Hussein El Said by fubarista amn dawla nasr city is burning paper in their car park but no protest! #25jan #egypt #ss #fb 3 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Zeyadsalem Zeyad Salem by m_aggan Army officer is injured and SS are still in firing #alexandria #egypt #jan25 4 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
kanu_356 kanu_356ducts15-16 by annfinster When will Egyptians finally realise that army IS NOT with the people? #Jan25 #Egypt #Alex 18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
kalimakhus Tamer Mowafy by egyosha RT @mrmeit: امن الدوله في دمياط يسربوا اوراقهم امام اعيين القوات المسلحه الان وتجمع لنشطاء 6 ابريل امام المبني #jan25 #egypt 8 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
CooToo22 Coo Key RT @monaeltahawy: Amazing! RT @Zeyadsalem: After finding a secret door to SS HQ thru a mosque ppl are flooding in #alexandria #egypt #jan25 3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
A call to surround all state security buildings to prevent the destruction of evidence by shredding and burning documents.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The official facebook page for prime minister Esam Sharaf
monaeltahawy Mona Eltahawy by RB_Phan Amazing! RT @Zeyadsalem: After finding a secret door to SS HQ thru a mosque ppl are flooding in #alexandria #egypt #jan25 59 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Protesters surround State Security premises in Giza, Alexandria
Sandmonkey Mahmoud Salem Today is the day we heard that the army arrested state security officers with the people's help. Glorious days in Egypt. #jan25 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
oldmoe oldmoe by Yasmine_Sabri Just came back from #AmnDawla #Alexandria I saw an officer getting the beating of his life when he tried to escape, army took him away 2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply
ReemAO8 Reem by Mivasair El Miry hospital in #Alexandria abandoned because thugs attacked. Wounded need doctors & nurses! #Help. Pls RT #Egypt #jan25 @3arabawy 4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
DemocracyReview Democracy Review by ReemAO8 URGENT PEOPLE GO & Protect hospital so NURSES & DOCTORS return to work PROTECT WOUNDED #Alexandria Elmiry Hospital Abandoned #Jan25 #Tahrir
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Thats alot of firepower, any idea what kind of explosives and what was the target, let alone by whom?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The people gathered in front os the state security building to demand it being dismantled altogether and SS officer investigated. The stupid mothefuckers (ss officers) start firing on the people and throwing Molotov cocktail at them!
The the people get angrier and gather in larger numbers and wanting to break in the building.
The army arrives and start arresting SS officers and issue a warning for those who escaped to surrender or face harsher prosecution if when they are found and arrested.
You know, just another day in Egypt. Power to the people.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Oh and then when the people finally got in they found mountains of shredded documents.
Look at the last couple of pictures to see the documents shredded.
But worse its human rights not shares and pensions.
Its actually better the protestors dismantle this SS function. Leaving it to the people who still hold the same jobs that they did before is not productive.
quote:Originally posted by this: The people gathered in front os the state security building to demand it being dismantled altogether and SS officer investigated. The stupid mothefuckers (ss officers) start firing on the people and throwing Molotov cocktail at them!
The the people get angrier and gather in larger numbers and wanting to break in the building.
The army arrives and start arresting SS officers and issue a warning for those who escaped to surrender or face harsher prosecution if when they are found and arrested.
You know, just another day in Egypt. Power to the people.
Well thats sounds like the norm over the last month.
So hospitals are being attacked, after matyrs are sent there for treatment.
I wonder if there is some way protestors can organize blockades around hospitals in the time being so the SS can do less damage.
I wonder how long the SS can hide before neighbors and not so distant relations tear them from their hiding places and hand them over to the protestors.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The Mubarak's can't find lawyers to represent them. Two lawyers agreed to represent them tomorrow and for one day only to ask the court for a postponement until they find lawyers.
علم "الدستور الأصلي" أن فريق الدفاع عن الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك الذي سيتولي مهمة الدفاع عنه أمام محكمة الجنايات غدا في قضية منعه من السفر والتحفظ علي أمواله هو وأسرته التي صدر بشأنها قرار من النائب العام يتكون من بهاء ابو شقة ومحمد حمودة.
وأكدت مصادر أن الاثنين لن يستمرا في الدفاع عن الرئيس نظرا لحساسية وضع الرئيس وحالة السخط العام التي يشعر بها المواطنون تجاهه وأنهما اعتذرا عن الاستمرار في القضية للرئيس نفسه عبر اتصالات جرت بين الجانبين وأنهما سيطلبان غدا تاأجيل البت في قرار النائب العام بالتحفظ علي اموال الرئيس واسرته ومنعهم من السفر لجلسة أخري حتي يتسني للرئيس وعائلته توكيل محامي
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
@This
Can we just believe that there is a good intention inside the new government? I am sure that you want to make the good change. But Please Know that we can't change the mistakes that we had since 30 years in a month or two. I am with gradual change and the end of the demos now and we can start again after a period of 2 month ( at least).
I do not complain about any thing but I condemn the actions of some among those revolutionaries who want to play the role and behave as if they want to improve the countries more than others who are not revolutionaries.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The army is going head to head with the Security Police and arresting commanding officer for destroying documents.
Edit: It's back Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
DostorNews الدستور الأصلى عاجل : اقتحام مقر أمن الدولة بمطروح والنشطاء داخل المقر الأن #jan25 #egypt #amndawla v @ayman_shweky 4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Activists storm the SS headquarters in Matouh and are inside it right now.
mikehagan I'll bet! RT @Jan25voices: Multiple reports that Special Forces / Commando Units attempting to secure SS HQ. #Egypt #horseleftbarn less than 10 seconds ago via web
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The official facebook page for "leaded SS documents" Of course they were not leaked;people stormed in and took them.
Horror. The chambers are evil and filthy like Hosni Mubarak. This is sick. Kilab-al-dowla needs to be absolved. Their mandate was regime protection from their own citizens. Damn them.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Correction: Dissolved! Filthy Shai'a'teen. Torturing their own people.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
o_salem Omar Salem by Rymo_adel نظرا لغياب امن الدولة نرجوا من السادة المواطنين عمل لجان لتعذيب انفسهم حتى استقرار الاوضاع والله الموفق #AmnDawla #Egypt 2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
So many scandals is coming out of the fall of the security police, this is the best part of the revolution. Some of the documents reveal cooperation of some of the well known TV show hosts.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
kilab el dawla was established in 1913 that time the British was occupying Egypt.
The Brits want to follow those who oppose the occupation and so they made it by the help of the Egyptian traitors.
It is all made by Egyptian traitors. Those who torture are traitors. Those who helped the Brits are traitors.
2011 is the end of This crap.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
oh bugger, I knew it would end up being our fault *sigh*
were Brits occupying in 1913? I knew they left in the revolution of 1952 but didn't realize they had been there that long.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
That's 98 years ago. Plenty of time for people to dismantle some of the disgraceful apparatus of the British Empire from the days when the Union Jack was known across many parts of the world as The Butcher's Apron.
Having said that we did do some bloody good railways and administrative systems (even though the Egyptians and Indians do seem to have taken red tape to levels undreamt of even in Blighty!)
@Ayisha - 1882 I think.
@Tareq, you rightly condemn torture. Do you not think that had things followed the 'let the regime stay in place for 8 months to allow an orderly transition' would not have lead to mass torture of those kids who were in the square non-stop for 3 weeks and had their faces all over TV? A couple of times they interviewed the 2 girls and I saw real fear in their faces when they thought people were going to accept that route. I wouldn't have given 2pst for their lives if that path had been followed.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: That's 98 years ago. Plenty of time for people to dismantle some of the disgraceful apparatus of the British Empire from the days when the Union Jack was known across many parts of the world as The Butcher's Apron.
OMG I never knew that.
quote:Having said that we did do some bloody good railways and administrative systems (even though the Egyptians and Indians do seem to have taken red tape to levels undreamt of even in Blighty!)
agree there but France and Germany did way better after WW2 IMHO
quote:@Ayisha - 1882 I think.
quote:@Tareq, you rightly condemn torture. Do you not think that had things followed the 'let the regime stay in place for 8 months to allow an orderly transition' would not have lead to mass torture of those kids who were in the square non-stop for 3 weeks and had their faces all over TV? A couple of times they interviewed the 2 girls and I saw real fear in their faces when they thought people were going to accept that route. I wouldn't have given 2pst for their lives if that path had been followed.
fully agree 100%, the whole lot HAS to go and now. How can anyone trust any of them now?
History was never my strong point, hated it, all I remember of history was keeping 1 of 3 fields 'fallow' and 1066. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I learned yesterday there are 4 men not allowed to leave Luxor, apparently. Samir ferag (governor), Mamdour Phillip (hotel owner), Mahmoud Edriss (hotel and more than half of Luxor owner (tut hotel, Metropolitan, kebabgy to name only a few)) and some guy called Bahaa in Karnak. All to do with antique smuggling apparently. Some newspapers said 17 artifacts and some said 32 had been discovered in one (not sure which one) of these houses. The great thing about this time is that anyone caught is immediately grassing on all his mates that had anything to do with it, no one wants to go down alone, and apparently goes right back to the big guy himself, mr Hawass and is part of to do with him having a huff and leaving now.
Cannot wait to see the 1st 3 get their 'justice' for their part in bleeding this country.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: That's 98 years ago. Plenty of time for people to dismantle some of the disgraceful apparatus of the British Empire from the days when the Union Jack was known across many parts of the world as The Butcher's Apron.
OMG I never knew that.
quote:
History was never my strong point, hated it, all I remember of history was keeping 1 of 3 fields 'fallow' and 1066.
I didn't learn it from school - in my youth I was a fully paid up member of Tooting Popular Front My dad used to send letters to me at my Uni Hall of Residence addressed to Tovarish {Shanta's real name}
PS Wasn't it 1 in 4 fields fallow and didn't it have something to do with a Spinning Jenny or some gadget that Ancient Egyptians invented thousands of years earlier - a dribbling stick or something? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
ooh I loved that program! Power to the people!! He was from Ilson ya know (Ilkeston to none hobbits)
I'm sure it was 3rd field fallow, but age is not good with memory Ah I remember the Spinning Jenny but most things were invented in Ancient Egypt that were re-invented later
Now if we had done Egypt in history I might have took more notice, British history was just too boring and stopped doing it after the first couple of years when we could choose Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Have they found detainees? I see some "tweets" but nothing concrete. Wonder what they will do with these men if they find them..hmmm Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
Lessons for future dictators: don't put everything in triplicate.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
I remember this random bloke who used to nick all the bags of shredding from outside the city lawyers, stick it all back together and sell stories about the stars' divorces to the tabloids.
It's definitely possible.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
What they need is a cross-shredder. £9.99 from Argos.
Sorry am in flippant mode.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Crikey, don't tell the secret police...
It's all taken away in bags and incinerated now. Trying to find a clip on him - there was a Louis Theroux type programme about him. He was called Benji - very eccentric guy.
Guess that's what happens when you spend your days trying to stick little bits of paper back together.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: That's 98 years ago. Plenty of time for people to dismantle some of the disgraceful apparatus of the British Empire from the days when the Union Jack was known across many parts of the world as The Butcher's Apron.
Well, I will say that Both Brits and Americans ( I mean the governments) wanted the apparatus to stay. after 1952 they were pushing the responsible staff to keep those traitors on power to serve their purposes. Also those traitors helped the government to wipe out the opposition.
Yesterday, I read in news that US was worried about the leakage of those documents the SSI had because It condemns America.
@Shanta yes, I thought an orderly tranfer of power would be a light solution and I think they are unable to imprison all of them. The SSI has no magic power to follow all of them.
All those who torture are weak and stupid. If they are strong or intelligent, they will not torture.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt names new foreign minister: Nabil al-Arabi
CAIRO, March 6 (Xinhua) -- The Egyptian care-taker government named on Sunday Nabil al-Arabi, a former judge in the International Court of Justice as new foreign minister, the state- run news agency MENA reported.
Nabil al-Arabi, who replaced former Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit, discussed with Prime Minister Essam Sharaf Arab and African affairs and other issues related to the neighboring countries, MENA said.
Newly-appointed Justice Minister Mohamed Abdel-Aziz el-Gendi expressed his aspirations to achieve his mission successfully.
Newly-appointed care-taker Awqaf Minister Abdullah el-Husseini discussed with Sharaf road maps in many issues, especially those related to Islamic da'wa or Islamic call, MENA reported.
Ahmed Hassan el-Boraie who accepted the manpower and immigration portfolio promised to exert utmost efforts to achieve positive developments, according to MENA.
Boraie urged all labor unions to concentrate on pushing the production cycle in the coming phase and pledged to set the minimum wage for the employees as soon as possible.
The petroleum and agricultural ministers have not been decided yet, government spokesman Magdi Radi said on Sunday.
The new cabinet is expected to take the constitutional oath on Monday, Radi added.
@sarrahsworld: #AmnDawla elected 20 say that a lot of rooms are locked by the army because of important docs inside!
It makes me a little nervous about how all these documents are being handled. It seems there needs to be some sort of orderly way in how to deal with them, and just who has access to them.
Personally, I don't think this should all be "public domain". Things they are retreiving, passwords, sex tapes that's personal stuff.
And it would seem that right now is not the time to go "leaking" information that could be highly controversial and imflammatory globally. Why not let things settle down, get to the election, and then let the proper authorities decide what should be done with all this information.
I still want to know where all these detainees are? Where are they hiding them now?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Zoom in to find yourself
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
On the one hand that is nice, but on the other it is a little scarey that the ability to do that exists on the planet. In my old demo'ing days back in the 70s and 80s, the police used to hang off bridges and tall buildings with video cameras to catch all the faces.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Awesome! What did Gobarchev say “I knew it was time to give in when I found out they (US) could read a license plate from outer space”
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
I've said that weeks ago. It really doesn't matter who will be on top of Egypt's government, nothing will change. At least not for another two generations - if ever.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
… says a Jewish gentleman who emigrated to Canada from Egypt in 1957. And the other statements in that article are from a man who emigrated in 1960.
The article raises a few valid points, but the fact that it's been published in "The Canadian Jewish News" and both people being quoted spent most of their lifes outside of Egypt doesn't really make it look like the best source of reliable opinions and information.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
“But [the protesters] have no structure. They are still going to end up with the same unemployment, the same problems with food, the same problems with corruption. “Whether [Egypt is ruled] by this guy or that guy, it doesn’t matter. It will just be a matter of time before the hand goes under the table and you have to give money. That is just the culture.”
… says a Jewish gentleman who emigrated to Canada from Egypt in 1957. And the other statements in that article are from a man who emigrated in 1960.
The article raises a few valid points, but the fact that it's been published in "The Canadian Jewish News" and both people being quoted spent most of their lifes outside of Egypt doesn't really make it look like the best source of reliable opinions and information.
Get over the source, Dalia. I guess the longer you live among Egyptians the more anti-Semitic you are becoming in your thinking.
If you lived long enough in Egypt you know what these JEWISH gentlemen are talking about and yes I agree this article made a lot of sense.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: I guess the longer you live among Egyptians the more anti-Semitic you are becoming in your thinking.
Nonsense. I pointed out that your source might not be the best for objective information and why. I'd do the same if someone presented quotes from the Muslim Brotherhood website as objective information on anything related to Israel.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Instead of serving the people they thought it is easier to convince us they are
Just for info as Bikya Masr didn't post any with it, that video relates to the events over the weekend re the state security papers:
اردنا دخول مقر امن الدولة بلاظوغلي لضمان تسليم الملفات للنيابة كما حدث البارحة بمقر مدينة نصر و لكن الجيش منعنا ثم هاجمنا . في الصباح راينا سيارة جيش تخرج من المقر بملفات و اخرين رأوا من منازلهم ظباط يخرجون من نفس المقر في نفس التوقيت و الجيش يحميهم.
Google Translate: We wanted to enter the headquarters of state security Blazawgli to ensure delivery of files to the prosecution, as happened yesterday at the Nasr City, but we attacked the army to stop us then. In the morning we saw a car out of the Army Headquarters and other files from their homes Officers saw out of the same venue at the same time and the army protects them.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Law-abiding citizens: Egyptians struggle to cope with police absence
Zahi Hawass and the Museum Gift Shop EgyptianMuseum240 Zahi Hawass and the Museum Gift Shop The Egyptian Museum in Cairo The new Museum gift shop that was looted during the recent revolution in Egypt has been a subject of ongoing controversy. In official reports from the International Council of Museums (ICOM) and the Egypt Cultural Heritage Organisation (ECHO) it was stated by the former director of the museum of Egyptian Antiquities (2004-2010) Mrs Wafaa el-Saddik, that the looting of the new gift shop was an inside job, carried out by the museum’s own security and Egyptian Police dressed in plain clothes.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
'Six shot dead' in Egyptian religious clashes
(AFP) – 57 minutes ago
CAIRO — At least six Coptic Christians were shot dead and 45 wounded by gunfire in religious clashes with Muslims in the Egyptian capital, a Coptic priest told AFP on Wednesday, updating an earlier toll.
"We have at the clinic the bodies of six Copts, all of them shot," local priest Samann Ibrahim told AFP, referring to a medical centre attached to his church.
oh now that is handy, such a shock that financial documents might be going up in smoke. NOT.
Now if that is not an 'inside job' I don't know what the hell is.
Wasn't there a report yesterday somewhere of a car torched outside the Magomma while a person standing and looking at the Magomma saw nothing of the like?
Nice way to get rid of a few financial documents that could be needed in some peoples trials though Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Problem that we might have at the moment is little fires breaking out due to electrical faults that would normally have been caught and dealt with quickly in more steady times. (We all know how great Egyptian electrical wiring is - in my flat if I twist the light bulb in the office one way all the lights in the hall come on or go off, twist it the other way and the rest of the lights in the office go on or off).
There may or may not be anything suspicious going on.
Remember the Hyper1 fire - the manager saw 'a foreigner running away' well it was an electrical fault. If anyone was seen running away, I would have put the manager of the new Spinneys in the frame. Hyper1 was reported as being razed to the ground. Erm... it wasn't.
Egyptians are apparently keeping their kids away from school because 'they might get kidnapped and have their body parts taken'. Erm... hello - they're small kids and most body parts need to be adult sized.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
If Egyptians are not careful more than only government buildings gonna end up in smoke.
Honestly I don't see any unity of the Egyptians - rather the opposite. Too many people having too many different opinions and agendas. Everybody wants to suddenly protest now for something.
Someone needs to speak up and stop all this chaos.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
What would YOU do right now if you were here and if you had some say - given that you can't turn the clock back and put HM back in power?
How would you recommend communities deal with the apparent invisibility of the police?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
not 100% sure but I think this article says after stepping down HM switched to the Thuraya UAE network for his telecoms because they can't be monitored? It's a very expensive network due to the security features and who is going to be responsible for paying his phone bill?
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: What would YOU do right now if you were here and if you had some say - given that you can't turn the clock back and put HM back in power?
How would you recommend communities deal with the apparent invisibility of the police?
Who wants the police??? Egyptians don't want the police - they hate and disrespect them.
IMHO a fresh start has to be made after the revolution. Both sides need to learn to trust and to show respect to each other. It will take time, many years.
In the meantime the current PM needs to speak up and urge his citizens to calm it down and get ready to organize elections etc. After Egypt has a new government - voted for by their citizens in not rigged elections - then negociations can be held in regards to changing laws, higher wages etc etc. the list is too long.
The foundation has to be established at first, incl. changes in constitution. Safety and stability has to return to the country to do that and then everything else can follow. All these different protests and demands at the moment are just counter-productive to the revolution.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
OK at the moment we have got a certain element of fear in the country, some based on genuine incidents and some based on overhyped media and scare stories. We have got untrained vigilantes and militia getting trigger-happy with passing pigeons and one day soon there's going to be a tragic accident. So they do want a police force that does 'normal' policeman stuff albeit a new force and call them something else and give them new clothes or whatever.
How would you manage this in the time it takes to get elections organized? If you were Egyptian and lived in a local residential area, what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
Posted by Mrs Hassan (Member # 15069) on :
Actually you will find that the majority do want the police and security stability. What your seeing is pockets of pent up anger and emotion. Citizens are protecting each other and looking out for one another, the police are around, just in smaller numbers and I admire the ones who came back to work.It must have been hard to do with everyone hating you. Having lived here many years knowing many egyptians, you will find that they have never really respected or trusted each other, even before the revolution. The revolution has made some changes in that respect and people now know their neighbours. It will come in time, you have to promote a postive message otherwise there is no hope. The goverment need time to make a few inroads and should make a couple of changes in the next few weeks, so that people can see things starting to happen. As for the police, well I have already suggested that the 1st thing they do is change the color of the uniform from black & white, its tarnished now and this will help gain some respect back. Yes things are happening which aren't right, 80 million people live here, and even if 1 million decide to do different protests etc... it will seem a lot to the outside world, but infact its a small drop in the ocean here. Inshallah change will come and to do that let people rant, have there say whatever, a few weeks down the road normality (says hopefully) will return and for the better.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Actually you will find that the majority do want the police and security stability. What your seeing is pockets of pent up anger and emotion. Citizens are protecting each other and looking out for one another, the police are around, just in smaller numbers and I admire the ones who came back to work.It must have been hard to do with everyone hating you. Having lived here many years knowing many egyptians, you will find that they have never really respected or trusted each other, even before the revolution. The revolution has made some changes in that respect and people now know their neighbours. It will come in time, you have to promote a postive message otherwise there is no hope. The goverment need time to make a few inroads and should make a couple of changes in the next few weeks, so that people can see things starting to happen. As for the police, well I have already suggested that the 1st thing they do is change the color of the uniform from black & white, its tarnished now and this will help gain some respect back. Yes things are happening which aren't right, 80 million people live here, and even if 1 million decide to do different protests etc... it will seem a lot to the outside world, but infact its a small drop in the ocean here. Inshallah change will come and to do that let people rant, have there say whatever, a few weeks down the road normality (says hopefully) will return and for the better.
I have to agree, It's not that ppl "hated" the police per se, but rather the tactics they employed. That is changing. Accountability is being worked on.It's rather naive to believe any society can work with out law enforcement. That's where chaos comes in.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
I'm not so sure the links about religious clashes belong in the post departure thread? Maybe they should be put in the section below, or the religious section.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: [qb] What would YOU do right now if you were here and if you had some say - given that you can't turn the clock back and put HM back in power?
How would you recommend communities deal with the apparent invisibility of the police?
Who wants the police??? Egyptians don't want the police - they hate and disrespect them.
of course they want the police! They want the police to do their job, which is to protect the people. They hated and disrespected a police that tortured and stole from them, who wouldn't? They want the police to do the job that police do, not the job they were doing.
quote:IMHO a fresh start has to be made after the revolution. Both sides need to learn to trust and to show respect to each other. It will take time, many years.
That includes the police doing the job police should be doing. It takes no time at all. At the moment they are here, but unsure what they should be doing as too many years of backsheesh and 'I am IT' attitude.
quote:In the meantime the current PM needs to speak up and urge his citizens to calm it down and get ready to organize elections etc. After Egypt has a new government - voted for by their citizens in not rigged elections - then negociations can be held in regards to changing laws, higher wages etc etc. the list is too long.
yes the list is long and they are working through it NOW, not later, no one is going to sit back and get another lot the same in BEFORE things change.
quote:The foundation has to be established at first, incl. changes in constitution. Safety and stability has to return to the country to do that and then everything else can follow. All these different protests and demands at the moment are just counter-productive to the revolution.
Yes, everything else including elections will follow, sort the other things FIRST before they give some God knows who 4 years to create the same again. It is being set in place so that will NOT happen again.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
When I was in Alex yesterday, the police seemed to back, at least doing traffic duties. Pity really, traffic has been moving much more freely in the past few weeks sans police. They must be keeping a low profile though, certainly I noticed that whenever officers were around lots of people seemed to be scrutinising them. Uncomfortable for them I think. I guess like others here, I got email from my Consulate with a warning about increased crime risk. Friend-of-a-friend had his car and money hijacked at gunpoint on the outskirts of Alex last week. Oportunistic crimes are probably going to be around for a while I think, simply because the police will maybe not want get into risky situations these days, even if they are back at work. Hope it doesn't escalate to kidnappings or real violence.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
They were in Haram Street yesterday (have been since the revolution) but with military police in close attendance. I did also see some in Tahrir doing normal policeman stuff (I saw some giving directions to people - not tourists, Egyptians). Also, though, a lot of the traffic cop duties round Tahrir were being done by civilians.
Like Mrs H, I agree that those who have returned to work in what must be frankly scarey to them circumstances do deserve admiration for their courage.
(OK, that's my last pontifaction for the next week - see Mods thread!)
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: OK at the moment we have got a certain element of fear in the country, some based on genuine incidents and some based on overhyped media and scare stories. We have got untrained vigilantes and militia getting trigger-happy with passing pigeons and one day soon there's going to be a tragic accident. So they do want a police force that does 'normal' policeman stuff albeit a new force and call them something else and give them new clothes or whatever.
How would you manage this in the time it takes to get elections organized? If you were Egyptian and lived in a local residential area, what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people. Integrate those with more experience police officers and you have yourself a police force by the people for the people. Later after elections the police act should be thrown out and policing should become a municipal responsibility with municipalities and govern-ates having a direct say on local rules and policies.
With regard to Sharm and Sinai in general, Bedouins -not all of course but most- are opportunists and have very little if any integrity. From my experience, Bedouins from northern Sinai are much better than southerners. Almost no comparison between the two.
Posted by Laura (Member # 879) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Meanwhile "political parties and figures in Egypt are calling for a million-man march on Friday in central Cairo’s Tahrir Square under the slogan "No to sectarian strife."
It was mentioned on the news the other day, that there are over 400,000 Thugs AKA State Security employees. Is that possible, almost a half million of them? Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura:
quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
From the same municipality. I don't see any problems arising from it and those scenarios you mentioned will be very few and in cases of serious crimes police guidelines and crime investigation procedures provide enough safeties to insure impartiality.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Laura: It was mentioned on the news the other day, that there are over 400,000 Thugs AKA State Security employees. Is that possible, almost a half million of them?
Doubt it. I heard 120,000 (total including clerks), which logically means around 25,000 actual kilab-al-dowla officers, and many more informants.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Large clashes in Tahrir today!!!!!!!!!
Meanwhile "political parties and figures in Egypt are calling for a million-man march on Friday in central Cairo’s Tahrir Square under the slogan "No to sectarian strife."
quote:Originally posted by this: Train new police personnel right from the community they will serve in. This way they are already part of the community and will be respected by the people.
What do you mean by "community"? Same city, specific areas within the city? The problem I see with this, is that while trying to do their job, it might become hard to enforce laws they find friends, and possibly even family members breaking.
And, if an officer had to arrest some friend of the family, oh.....not good no matter how you look at it.
No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again and that would be a good way to do it, that's how you teach people if you're doing nothing wrong then no problem, if you are then there will be. Like parents really, you don't stop reprimanding your kids just coz you're related to them. With the correct training, and decent pay, the police could become what they are supposed to be. Back in the 60's in UK the local 'bobby' knew everyone and everyone knew him and you certainly respected him. That was a time when you could go out and leave your doors unlocked.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again
And most of all TRUST each other - that's what I said earlier today.
It takes a good will and efforts from both sides.
It can't be that the police will show their best side from now on and the ordinary Egyptian will still not abide to any laws (and even if it's means only to buckle up in the car).
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: No I think that's actually a good idea. Both sides need to learn how to respect each other again
And most of all TRUST each other - that's what I said earlier today.
It takes a good will and efforts from both sides.
It can't be that the police will show their best side from now on and the ordinary Egyptian will still not abide to anY laws (and even if it's means only to buckle up in the car).
I agree absolutely but the problem has been how do you respect a police officer than works by bribes, and they all did. Police will have to earn that respect BY respecting the people they are supposed to be protecting.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Now this is pathetic. For the office of the prime minister to not be able to develop and implement a decent website is just pathetic.
A couple of days ago or so they decided for some strange reason to write one of their posts in English and it was laughable. I commented on it and I'm sure hundreds of others and in less than a minute of it being posted was removed and never reposted. I don't know who sits on a desk and posts comments on behalf of the prime minister but it can't be someone older than 12.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
re: Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people
Egyptian people?
Where aside from goverment institutions is bribery rampant. Back up your accusations.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
You really need to stop your crap. You do not have a clue what Egyptians do or believe. Change is happening and nothing can stop it. It is to the better no matter how many obstacles and bumps are encountered along the way. It may get much more messy before it gets better and in the grand scheme of things, that's a price worth paying.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Now this is pathetic. For the office of the prime minister to not be able to develop and implement a decent website is just pathetic.
A couple of days ago or so they decided for some strange reason to write one of their posts in English and it was laughable. I commented on it and I'm sure hundreds of others and in less than a minute of it being posted was removed and never reposted. I don't know who sits on a desk and posts comments on behalf of the prime minister but it can't be someone older than 12.
I would say it was built by Rainbownet of Luxor, but it can't be as it does have a doc type declaration, theirs normally don't. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
you really know very little about Egypt and Egyptians TL. You seem to know nothing about what really has been going on and is still going on by your babaMu.
Let me ask you another question that you wont answer, just like you wouldn't answer the Berlin wall question.
If your kids were in a school, it's the only school in the area so you have no choice. you find your kids are being very seriously abused. Do you:
a) tell the abusers off, slap a few wrists and tell them thy are on their way out but will still run the school until a new school is built with different teachers, or b) take your kids out of the school asap, report the abusers and help to carry them off to the clink and have the kids off school for a while.
Which is more detramental to the KIDS?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: So all Egyptians can except bribes except the police from now on????
Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people. This fact is not going to change; no way.
re: Giving and receiving bribes is as crucial as aysh baladi and water to the Egyptian people
Egyptian people?
Where aside from goverment institutions is bribery rampant. Back up your accusations.
Depends on how you define bribe. If it is necessary to give tip to receive the service you paid for anyway then it is a bribe and that is rampant. Let's face it, Egypt is corrupt to the bone and Egyptians have been very innovative in getting bribes/tips. Having said that it will change. There are people who care. It came to me as a surprise but there are lots of people who care. During the revolution I found out that almost all my friends are self centered and not willing to do anything more than talk and at the same time met amazing number of people from all walks of life who want to give everything they have to secure better living for others. It surprised me that after that much corruption intelligent caring people survived. It was like the entire body was dieing of cancer while a healthy child is growing in the womb.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Sharm Business and Community FB group have posted that police appear to have returned to Sharm this evening, checking licences at checkpoints etc. for the first time in a month - normal police duties.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: You really need to stop your crap. You do not have a clue what Egyptians do or believe.
Truth hurts, doesn't it? Especially when it comes from a foreigner??
quote:Originally posted by this: Change is happening and nothing can stop it. It is to the better no matter how many obstacles and bumps are encountered along the way. It may get much more messy before it gets better and in the grand scheme of things, that's a price worth paying.
Wow .... "change is happening". Big words too big for my opinion for such a little time as it's been only four weeks since Mubarak stepped down. Lots of ideas, good and bad, but all these ideas need time to realize them. Change will come or will not come within years, many years. If it will get better or not for the ordinary Egyptian has to be seen.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: what would you consider to be the best response in order to avoid the situation such as in Sharm at the moment where you have the local bedouin - and it may be a few chancing their arm, or it may be more organized than that - I don't know - going in to hotels and companies demanding substantial 'protection' money and also to avoid giving arms to people in the grip of their emotions.
I wouldn't be convinced it was the Beduoin. I haven't seen an awful lot about this apart from that there were a spate of robberies, but did they catch any of them? When it all kicked off there was story after story about the Beduoin coming to murder us all in our beds - it was all BS. And I think the police were behind it - just like the stories about crims getting out (not that they didn't, but the authorities certainly appear to have had a hand in that), gangs of robbers and all the rest of it. A massive amount of Beduoin in Sinai rely on tourists for their livelihoods just like everyone else. It's tightknit and they have their own justice system. I just don't see that one would stick out their neck for short term gain when they'd be cutting off the livelihoods of many. More like someone who no longer can rake in the dollars through corruption... Just a theory but... Can anyone account for a certain Mr M's movements on the day in question? It's well documented he was in the vicinity and must be by far the biggest crook in town Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
This is more of a revolution than you think
Seeing the images of the storming of the State Security Bastilles in Nasr City, Alexandria, Beheira, Aswan, Siwa and elsewhere, it dawned on me that many--including myself--have underestimated the scope of the events of the last few weeks. On 11 February, Egypt got rid of a dictator and his cronies, who all had come to symbolize stagnation and corruption. But it turns out this was just the beginning. What is now being questioned--and, step-by-step, brought down--is a method of governance, raising questions about the very nature of the relationship between citizen and state. And that battle is yet to be won.
After the fall of Hosni Mubarak, it seemed like the military wanted to restore order as quickly as possible. This is a perfectly legitimate aim when it comes to the security situation, but it was a misstep when it came to the institutions of the state. The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces set a six-month deadline for restoring the normal order of things, tasking a committee with quickly patching up the constitution and electoral laws. That committee itself recognized this was an interim measure, and suggested that a new constitution should be drafted within a year. The idea is that this will be handled by the next president and parliament, which will essentially act as a constituent assembly.
This idea has its merits, but it ignores the thirst for immediate justice and the gradual realization of what kind of regime Mubarak (and his predecessors) ran. There were worse dictatorships, yes, but the problem was not simply an aging, authoritarian president, his ambitious son and his corrupt entourage. It was that, for the sake of regime preservation, a sprawling security apparatus collected information on citizens, manipulated them, cajoled and threatened them, humiliated them. State Security did not just, as its role should have been, keep tabs on possible terrorists and criminal networks. It ran Egypt on a day-to-day level, super-imposing itself onto the regular bureaucracy, acting as an intermediary.
While ministries shuffled paper and red tape, state security kept tabs on people. This goes beyond the issue of torture, which it certainly practiced abundantly, or the racketeering, blackmailing and other schemes its officers carried out with impunity. What those who gained access to its offices discovered is that, much like the Ministry of Transport might keep an inventory of its buses and trains, State Security maintained an elaborate database on citizens, the threats they represented, their weaknesses, relationships and other every little detail of their lives.
This process that had its own chilling logic, reminiscent of the “banality of evil” Hannah Arendt chronicled in Nazi Germany, Andrei Almarik in the Soviet Union, Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck in East Germany, or Ariel Dorfman in Pinochet’s Chile. What it boils down to is that a vast bureaucracy existed simply to perpetuate itself and those in charge. Consider the neat categorizations of the population--“Muslim Brothers”, “Communists and human rights activists,” etc.--or the recent allegation that the Ministry of Trade paid a monthly retainer of LE174,000 to its own state security watchers to get them to write positive reports.
Whatever counter-terrorism and other legitimate roles State Security played, this must have been a relatively minor part of what it did: most of its resources were dedicated to the humdrum task of keeping tabs on those Egyptians who, for whatever reason--wealth, political opinion, media influence, foreign connections--posed a potential threat to the regime. In the end, this may have become about more than protecting the president and National Democratic Party bosses: the real power brokers in late Mubarak Egypt were most probably high-level officials at the Ministry of Interior, who ran things even if they weren’t public figures.
To deal with the immensity of this realization (or for many, a confirmation of what they already felt but could not prove), the military will have to adjust its ambitions for the interim period. It is no longer enough to have an adjustment period to a new, hopefully more democratic, regime. There has to be a wider process of national reconciliation and acknowledgement of past crimes if Egypt isn’t to sink into a morass of endless accusations and recriminations.
The population at large will also have to adjust its expectations for how justice will be rendered. If every official and businessman alleged to have committed offenses or engaged in corruption is pursued through the courts, the process will take years if not decades. The main culprits should no doubt be pursued, but something else will be needed to render a sense of justice that so many crave.
A good model to follow would be something along the lines of the truth and reconciliation commissions implemented in South Africa and elsewhere. What Egypt is now experiencing is not like the end of Apartheid, in that it’s not’s about the acts of a distinct group against another. But there is a need to bear witness, in the open and for all to hear, to the testimony of the victims and the confessions of the perpetrators of the fallen regime. It will mean facing some uncomfortable truths, not least of which is the degree to which very few public figures are completely blameless.
Interesting interview with Tahani al-Gebali, Egypt’s first female judge and vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court and why she will be saying 'no' in the referendum on March 19th and how she thinks things should be handled over the next few months.
الصفحة الرسمية لحكومة عصام شرف التعليم" تحذف فصلا كاملا عن "مبارك" من منهج التربية الوطنية
الدكتور أحمد جمال الدين موسى، أصدر تعليمات لمساعده الدكتور رضا أبو سريع والدكتور أحمد السيد، مستشارى مادتى الفلسفة والتربية الوطنية فى الوزارة، بحذف فصل كامل من محتوى النصف الدراسى الأول فى كتاب مادة التربية الوطنية المقرر على طلاب المرحلة الثانية من الثانوي...ة العامة، لأن هذ...ا الفصل يعرض لعهد الرئيس السابق حسنى مبارك بشكلاً دعائى وليس علمى .
Google Translate (except I have changed it's translation of mubarak which was 'blessed' back to Mubarak):
Official Page of the Government of Essam Sharaf Education ", delete an entire chapter on "Mubarak" from the national education curriculum
Dr. Ahmed Gamal Eddin Moussa, issued instructions to his assistant, Dr. Reda Abu fast and Dr Ahmed Al-Sayed, adviser to the subjects of philosophy and civic education in the ministry, delete the entire chapter of the content of half the first semester in the Book of citizenship education to be on the students of the second stage of secondary ... e public , because this ... a Chapter presents to the reign of former President Hosni Mubarak similar free resource propaganda and not scientific.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I wouldn't be convinced it was the Beduoin. I haven't seen an awful lot about this apart from that there were a spate of robberies, but did they catch any of them?
"Community meeting, Sharks Bay, 9.3.2011 Due to the current security situation in Sharm el Sheikh and having looting problems, which were attributed to some irresponsible young Bedouins, we have contacted the Sheikhs/Heads of the Bedouin tribes in Sharm. We, a group of long-time Sharm residents along with Bedouins from our community, have investigated these incidents and concluded that these Bedouin are in no way related to the Bedouins of Sharm el Sheikh, but are outsiders, not from our city. We have formed a committee consisting of Bedouins (living in Sharm) and residents to form a TEMPORARY security group to protect us and tourist installations until regular police force is present again in Sharm."
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Ooh... Wouldn't like to be them if the local Bedouin do catch them...
Why no police? There are police further up the coast...
I dunno. Little accidental fires and oopsie, evidence all gone... Religious clashes... Didn't think there was any great threat against the police in Sinai? Compared to the rest of the country, I mean. Why have they been pulled off the street? When Mubarak was still in there was a very visible police and army presence (check points attended by both) to try to make the tourists feel safe.
Something smells off.
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
Am I missing something in all this? Can't quite get my head around it. Have the regular police been disbanded then?
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
I'm a bit dubious about 'community policing'. Don't imagine it's going to be like the friendly copper who knows everyone etc. This is how you end up with sectarian, or tribal militias, answerable to themselves and with little or no real grasp of the law. It was ok in the early days of the revolution, when people were protecting their neighbourhood, just a threat of armed response, and probably worked. I know Bedouins keep an eye on their own districts, and 'control' crime, but I've seen them chasing suspects with machetes too, not a really safe system. at least in these cases, they would haul the perps off to the police station. Maybe we'll just have to forgive and forget, re the police, and if they clean their own house, [they know who abused and who didn't]just move on.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
مسيرات تأييد كبيرة بعرض البلاد وطولها تطالب بمبارك رئيسا لمصر مدى الحياة.. Marches in support of a large display of the country and length of calls Mubarak President of Egypt for life .. مجلس الشعب يستجيب لإرادة الشعب ويمرر المادة (أم ٤٤) التى تجعل مبارك رئيسا «مش» مدى حياته هوّ.. People's Council responds to the will of the people and pass the article (or 44) that make President Mubarak «I do» how life is .. لأ مدى حياة مصر. No, over the life of Egypt.
القبض على بتوع التحرير بتهمة محاولة قلب نظم الحكم، ويتم الحكم عليهم وهم فى سيارة الترحيلات بالإعدام.. Ptua arrested on charges of attempting to overthrow the editorial systems of government, they are sentenced to death in a car deportations .. استغاثات يستجيب لها الرئيس فيخفف الحكم إلى مؤبد وسط عاصفة من التهليل لرقة قلبه، بعدها يتم العثور على جثث المتظاهرين، والعادلى يقول إنهم ماتوا من الفرحة. Call for Help responds to the President eases the sentence to life sentence in a storm of paper to cheer his heart, then found the bodies of the demonstrators, and Interior Minister says they died of joy. تغيير لقب تامر حسنى من «نجم الجيل» إلى «عم الجيل»، والرئاسة تنتج بالاشتراك مع السبكى فيلم طلعت زكريا الجديد «ريس الطباخين».. Change the title of Tamer Hosny «generation» to «with generation», and the presidency, produced in collaboration with Sobkey Talaat Zakaria's new movie «Reese cooks» .. نجاح سماح أنور فى انتخابات مجلس الشعب عن دائرة الدقى، وأمن الدولة يمرر للصحف القومية الملفات التى تثبت أن البرادعى حول فيلته إلى معصرة للنبيذ، وأن إبراهيم عيسى تاجر آثار، وأن زويل المستشار العلمى لتنظيم جيش الإسلام الفلسطينى، وأن وائل غنيم هو «اللى حدف الطوبة بتاعت ماتش زيمبابوى»، وأن شباب ٦ أبريل سبق أن وردت أسماؤهم فى قضية عبدة الشيطان، وأن التحرش الجنسى الجماعى الذى حدث فى العيد الكبير كان تحت قيادة شباب «كفاية»، وأن سمير عمر مراسل الجزيرة هو «اللى أخد رشوة المرسيدس»، وأن علاء الأسوانى هو المؤلف الحقيقى لفيلم «بون سواريه». Success allow Anwar in the People's Assembly elections by the Department of Dokki, and state security passes for newspapers national files that prove that ElBaradei on his villa to the presses for wine, and Ibrahim Issa, an antiquities dealer, and Zewail, Scientific Adviser to the organization of the Army of Islam Palestinian, and Wael Ghoneim is «Elly Hdv Brick Btaat Match Zimbabwe », and the April 6 youth that had been named in the case of Satanists, and that sexual harassment of the mass, which occurred in the great feast was under the leadership of Youth« adequacy », and Samir Omar Al-Jazeera correspondent is« saree, take your bribe Mercedes », and Ala Al Aswany is the real author of the film «Bonn Swareah».
إعلان السويس محمية طبيعية وتهجير كل سكانها إلى عزبة الكيلو «أربعة ونص»، فى الوقت نفسه يتم إعلان «نزلة السمان» منطقة حرة، والعملة المتداولة بها هى الدولار والسماح لسكانها بإقامة سباق دولى للجمال والبغال. Declaration Suez nature reserve and the displacement of population to each estate Kilo «The text of four», at the same time will be announced «bad fat» free zone, and currency is the dollar and allow the population of the establishment of an international race for beauty and mules.
أحمد عز يأمر بإعدام كل أعضاء فرقة طيبة الموسيقية وعلى رأسهم حسين الإمام، ويفوز بمناقصة لتحويل ميدان التحرير إلى أكبر ورشة خراطة فى الشرق الأوسط، ويقود حملة لتغيير السلام الوطنى من «بلادى بلادى» إلى «سيخى طوله كام»، العادلى يقترح تحويل يوم ٢٥ يناير إلى «العيد القومى للبرنس» وسيتم إجبار الشعب فيه على النزول للشارع بالبرنس البمبى (بالنسبة للإناث) والأبيض بالنسبة للزملكاوية. Ahmed Ezz, ordering the execution of all members of the Task good music and on top of Imam Hussein, and wins a tender to convert Tahrir Square to the largest and Turner Workshop in the Middle East, spearheading a campaign to change the Palestinian National Anthem of «my» to «Sikh length cam», Adli is proposed to convert on 25 January to the «National Day of the Prince» and it will force the people to get off the street Balbrns Alpmby (for females) and white for Zmlkkawip.
إلغاء العمل بـ«قانون الطوارئ» على أن يتم العمل بـ«الطوارئ» دون قانون، ويتم افتتاح أمانة جديدة داخل الحزب الوطنى اسمها «أمانة البلطجة» تهدف إلى الاستفادة من خبرات بلطجية مصر فى دعم الحزب وتسند الأمانة إلى «سيد زرجينة»، بعد يومين يتم العثور على سيد زرجينة مذبوحا فى فيلا بـ«مدينتى» ويتم إسناد الأمانة إلى «حمادة كُخة»، أول اقتراحات «كُخة» هو منح وسام الجمهورية للخواجة «كنتاكى» وتكريم مخترع «الترامادول». Abolition of the b «emergency law» that the work is b «emergency» without law, and is opening a new secretariat within the National Party, called «the secretariat of bullying» aims to benefit from the experiences of thugs Egypt in support of the party and entrusted the Secretariat to the «master Zrgenp», two days after found Mr. Zrgenp slaughtered in Villa b «cities» and is assigned to the Secretariat «Hamada Kkp», the first proposals «Kkp» is to give the Order of the Republic of Khawaja «Kentucky» and honor the inventor of the «Tramadol».
تقنين العمل على الفيس بوك بحيث يكون متاحا ٣ أيام أسبوعيا من الثالثة فجرا حتى موعد أذان الفجر، مع تقديم موعد أذان الفجر ليصبح فى الثالثة والربع، ويتم إلزام كل مواطن بإيداع نسخة من باس وورد البروفايل بتاعه فى إدارة مباحث الديجيتال، ويحظر إقامة أى جروب إلا بموافقة المجلس الأعلى للصحافة، ويعاقب بالجلد كل من يثبت امتلاكه حسابا على تويتر، ويحظر مونتاج أو إذاعة أى كليبات على اليوتيوب إلا بموافقة أنس الفقى. Codification work on Facebook, so it is available 3 days a week from three in the morning until Fajr, and provide the date Fajr azan to become the third quarter, and are bound by every citizen of the deposit of a copy of the bass and reportedly profile Dominos in the Investigation Department digitalis, and prohibits the establishment of any group except with the consent of the Supreme Press Council, and is punishable by flogging prove possession of an account on Twitter, and prohibits editing or broadcast any clips on YouTube without the consent of Anas el-Feki.
تبدأ ولاية مبارك الجديدة، وأمناء الشرطة يقيمون استعراضا بهذه المناسبة يطلقون خلاله كميات من الرصاص المطاطى والقنابل المسيلة للدموع فيقع معظمهم صرعى ومبارك يحتسبهم من الشهداء. Mubarak begins new mandate, and the Trustees of the Police live review of this which call the appropriate amounts of rubber bullets and tear gas is located mostly lying dead and Mubarak Ihtsabhm of martyrs.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
He's basically fear-mongering. According to him, police officers are great, honorable and we're all proud of them! The most corrupt agency in Egypt is now honorable Fucking people, I think we're better off with no government at all if that's all we can get for ministers.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
ألقت قوات من الشرطة والقوات المسلحة مساء اليوم الجمعة، القبض على نائبي الحزب الوطني عبد الناصر الجابري ويوسف خطاب بتهمة التحريض على الإعتداء على المتظاهرين في ميدان التحرير بالجمال والخيول في الثاني من فبراير الماضي فيما عرف بـ”موقعة الجمل”.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Interesting interview with Tahani al-Gebali, Egypt’s first female judge and vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court and why she will be saying 'no' in the referendum on March 19th and how she thinks things should be handled over the next few months.
And she wasn't appointed to the constitutional committee.
What she is refering to is "reactivating the constitution", hence she is pushing for continued emergency law.
Here's a few excerpts:
"What if the new constitution cancels the Shura Council later on? We will have to get rid of it then. So we will be canceling the council after candidates had spent millions and killed themselves to garner seats."
"I am for electing a president after six months according to a temporary constitutional declaration. In this declaration, we can make it compulsory for the new president to call for a national association elected by the people to draft a new constitution within another six months."
"What if the upcoming parliament is dominated by a limited number of forces and fails to accommodate other existing segments? And this might happen. When we asked the commission how the parliament is going to elect this 100-member association, we did not get a clear answer. Would the association members be elected from the parliament itself or from outside the parliament? The answer was not clear, however, constitutional articles have to be very precise."
She is very concerned about a freely elected parliment that the NDP doesn't sign off on having a say in the new constitution. She wants a parliment granted by the NDP to have the final say in the constitution. Meaning business as usual.
This judge was appointed, she wasn't elected. I wouldn't doubt the NDP chocked off all female judicial candidates in the elections just so they can appoint a stoodge.
Makes me think of the Minister of Family and Population. How this female minister put all blame on Egypt's population on the Egyptian women ignoring the fact that Egypt's 2.6 child per woman quota is very similar to the USA's 2.4 child per woman quota.
There are times when a woman who is pushed through by the NDP to show the west that the only way a woman can take a top level government position is by the NDP putting her there is the worst choice possible.
And to prove her stoodge position this question was sent her way:
"Al-Masry: How would you assess the status of women’s rights during Mubarak’s 30-year rule? "
Her response:
"Over the last 30 years, women’s rights were codified in laws and in the constitution, but were not enjoined in reality. This was the main challenge facing women during the last 30 years."
Problem was the NDP made sure bureaucracy was so corrupt no woman or man had their rights.
The reality became that when young men cannot become functional adults because their opportunities are stalled due to widespread corruption it creates a massive void and resentment between the genders.
Al-Gebali ignores this completely. She puts the wrath of societal segregation on the shoulders of the people instead of issuing any fault on government corruption.
Just like the Minister of Family and Population.
Again Al-Gebali wasn't appointed to the constitutional ammendment committe not because she's a woman, but because she is an NDP insider. Sour grapes all around.
Sorry Shanta this isn't against you, I just can't stand this woman. Can't stand Al-Gebali at all. I've heard alot about her that isn't becoming that hasn't been discussed in Egyptian media.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Egyptians abroad participated in the revolution .. ويجب أن يشاركوا في التصويت Must participate in the voting
كلف الدكتور ماجد عثمان وزير الاتصالات وتكنولوجيا المعلومات المهندس ياسر القاضي الرئيس التنفيذي لهيئة تنمية صناعة تكنولوجيا المعلومات "ايتيدا" ببدء حوار مع منظمات الأعمال والمجتمع المدني العاملة في مجال تكنولوجيا المعلومات وكافة المهتمين لدراسة مدي إمكانية الاستفادة من قانون التوقيع الالكتروني وتطبيقاته وأدواته في تمكين الناخبين المصريين من التصويت في الانتخابات الرئاسية القادمة كخطوة تهدف إلى التفاعل مع المصريين باستخدام التكنولوجيا التي أسهمت في تغير ايجابي حقيقي للمجتمع المصري وتوسيع قاعدة المشاركة في الانتخابات. Commissioned Dr. Majid Osman, Minister of Communications and Information Technology Engineer Yasser Judge Chief Executive Officer of Information Technology Industry Development "ITIDA" to initiate a dialogue with business organizations and civil society working in the field of information technology and all those interested to study the possibility of using of the law of electronic signature and its applications and tools to empower voters Egyptians vote in the upcoming presidential election as a step designed to interact with the Egyptians, using technology that contributed to the real positive change in the Egyptian society and broaden the base of participation in the elections.
ودعت الهيئة إلى هذا الحوار الذي شارك فيه – على مدار جلستين عقدتا الأسبوع الجاري وكان ثانيها أمس – ممثلي شركات التوقيع الالكتروني وممثلي منظمات المجتمع المدني والأعمال المتخصصة في تكنولوجيا المعلومات وخبراء قانونيين ومتخصصين. The SBSTA invited to this dialogue in which - over the two meetings held this week and was second yesterday - representatives of companies that the electronic signature and the representatives of civil society organizations and the business specialized in information technology and legal experts and specialists. واتسمت الجلستان بادراك واضح لأهمية الحوار ودور كل الأطراف في المشاركة الايجابية لصياغة مستقبل مصر ودور قطاع تكنولوجيا المعلومات المهم في هذه الصياغة انطلاقا من مسئوليته إزاء خدمة المجتمع المصري. The meetings marked a clear realization of the importance of dialogue and the role of all parties to participate in the positive shaping the future of Egypt and the role of the information technology sector is important in this formulation from the responsibility for the service of Egyptian society. واستهل المهندس ياسر القاضي الاجتماع الأول مؤكدا على أن الهدف الأساسي هو زيادة قاعدة المشاركة الديمقراطية الفاعلة بشكل يتسم بالنزاهة والشفافية. Yasser initiated the first meeting of the judge stressed that the main objective is to increase the base of participation in a functioning democracy in a fair and transparent.
وقال أن النتيجة النهائية للحوار ستتمثل في الوصول إلى أكثر الوسائل والتطبيقات التقنية دقة وأمنا لإتاحة خيار التصويت الالكتروني داخل مقار الانتخاب، ودراسة كيفية توفيره للناخب المقيم بمصر وخارجها. He said that the final outcome of the dialogue will be access to more tools and applications, technical accuracy and safer option to allow electronic voting in the election headquarters, and examine how available to the voters resident in Egypt and abroad. وأشار إلى أن إتاحة هذه الوسائل التقنية لن تقتصر على الناخب وإنما ستمتد إلى القضاة المشرفين على اللجان الانتخابية بما يتيح لهم ممارسة عملهم الإشرافي في العملية الانتخابية. He pointed out that the availability of such technical means will not be limited to the voter, but will extend to judges supervising the election commissions, allowing them to exercise their supervisory role in the electoral process.
وأوضح المهندس ياسر القاضي أن ثورة 25 يناير منحت مصر فرصة ذهبية لتفاعل أوسع نطاقا واشمل تأثيرا مع تكنولوجيا المعلومات وأدواتها، كما فرضت واقعا جديدا يحتم زيادة الاعتماد على تكنولوجيا المعلومات في الوصول إلى المواطن وتحقيق تطلعاته من جانب، وتعزيز دور القطاع وشركاته وتفعيل إسهاماتهم المجتمعية من جانب أخر. The Engineer Yasser judge Revolution January 25 gave Egypt a golden opportunity for the interaction of a broader and more comprehensive impact with information technology and tools, also imposed a new reality requires a greater reliance on information technology in the access to the citizen and to achieve their aspirations on the part of, and strengthen the role of the sector and its companies and activate their contributions to community by another. وأضاف أن هذه الثورة ستنعكس بشكل ايجابي على مجتمع تكنولوجيا المعلومات المصري بنفس الدرجة التي ستؤثر بها على المجتمع المصري ككل.واتفق المشاركون في الجلسة الأولى على ضرورة دراسة مختلف الوسائل والحلول التقنية بشكل واع ومسئول للوقوف على انسب هذه الوسائل وأكثرها دقة وأمنا في عملية تمكين المواطنين من الإدلاء بأصواتهم. He added that this revolution will be reflected positively on society Information Technology Egyptian in the same class, which will affect the Egyptian society as a whole. The participants agreed at the first meeting on the need to study various methods and technical solutions are conscious and responsible to determine the most appropriate means and the most accurate and secure in the process of enabling citizens to cast their ballots.
وشدد المهندس ياسر القاضي على أن الأسبوعين المقبلين سيشهدان دعوة الهيئة لمختلف الأطياف الفنية، والقانونية، والمجتمعية، والإعلامية لحوار مفتوح حول خيار التصويت الالكتروني بما يسمح بتطبيقه خلال الانتخابات الرئاسية المقبلة، على أن يتم بعد ذلك رفع تقرير نهائي للدكتور ماجد عثمان وزير الاتصالات وتكنولوجيا المعلومات لاطلاع الجهات المعنية على نتائجه وما تم التوصل اليه. He stressed Yasser judge that the next two weeks will witness shall invite the various spectra technical, legal, societal, and media for an open dialogue about the option of electronic voting to allow its application during the next presidential election, that is then a final report to Dr. Maged Osman, Minister of Communications and Information Technology to brief stakeholders on the results of what has been reached. وبدا من خلال مناقشات الجلستين أن هناك وعيا والتزاما شديدا بضرورة إتاحة خيار التصويت الالكتروني للمصريين داخليا وللمغتربين مع التأكيد على حتمية تميز هذا الخيار بعناصر الأمان الواجب توافرها وهو ما ستضمنه هيئة تنمية صناعة تكنولوجيا المعلومات بحكم القانون باعتبارها الجهة الوحيدة المنوط بها تنظيم عملية التوقيع الالكتروني. And looked through the discussions at the meetings that there is awareness and a strong commitment to the need to allow the option of electronic voting for the Egyptians internally and overseas, with an emphasis on the inevitability of distinction this option elements of security that must be met, which Stdmenh the Information Technology Industry Development by law as the only body entrusted with the organization of the electronic signature process.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
It’s a lovely day to be talking to you all in a Mubarak and NDP free Egypt. It’s been quite the undertaking, and many people were terrified, injured or killed, but we somehow managed to do it. Congratulations on that to all of us. Pats on the back, everybody!
Naturally, we (the revolutionaries) still don’t think the battle is over. The Mubaraks are still free, so are Fathy Surrour, Zakaria Aazmy and Safwat ElSherief, alongside with all the corrupt NDP officials in all branches of government, not to mention all the state security and police officers who spent the last 3 decades terrorizing, monitoring, torturing & killing those they were supposed to protect. The Political prisoners and detained Jan25 protesters are still unlawfully in prison, the stolen money is still in foreign countries, and the Minimum wage of 200 dollars a month for all Egyptians is still not enforced. There is also the matter of transparency of the government (financially & operationally and having the country run by civilians instead of a military Junta, a new constitution to be drafted instead of one that gives absolute power to the head of state, political freedoms to all Egyptians, enforceable bill of rights to all Egyptians, equal rights to all women, equal political rights to Egyptians living abroad and/ or born or married to a foreigner, freedom of the media, etc..etc.. I don’t want to bore you, but, yep, lots of work is yet to be done, and it’s taking far too long by those in charge to get done, which is making us unhappy. And Unhappy protesters usually protest. It’s just a fact of life.
But we are hearing that some of you are unhappy with all this protesting. We are hearing that you think we are kids with no purpose or jobs, who are currently destroying the country and the economy by all of our protesting and demands. We are hearing that you just want stability & security, and that we are not listening to all of you or your concerns and that we are no different than the dictator we just toppled. Please be assured, this is not the case here, because you are our people, and your concerns are the same as our concerns. We must admit that we are surprised by such accusations, & some of us are not taking it well, while others don’t have time to respond because, let’s face it, trying to find out whether your friends are killed or not, and trying to free them from being court-martialed in the new democratic Egypt, all the while addressing a the new referendum, and the issue of Copts getting murdered, churches being burned and such other sectarian strife issues that plague us, well, it could become a consuming full-time job. Our sin might be that we are so used to fighting those small (in your opinion) battles that we are not focusing enough on explaining our point of view to you and how we are on the same side. For that we apologize and we hope you forgive us. Now, on to your concerns.
You are concerned about the lagging state of the economy and the losses that were caused by the revolution and all of our protests, and you just want everybody back to work, without asking yourself how is it that our economy was so weak that all it took to destroy it was less than two months of protests, while a country like France has nation-wide protests all the time, and their economy isn’t collapsing because of it. You are also forgetting that that the other main causes of the lag in economy is the complete & total corruption in all government institutions (state, municipal & local), the military curfew that’s completely destroying our logistical operations and Tourism, the absence of Security (more on that later), and the total confusion of (the many many many) foreign investors- who want to come to Egypt now and invest- in regards to who they could talk to in order to come here and invest, given that the civilian government has no power and the military council isn’t exactly approachable.
You are concerned about the thugs attacking and robbing you of your property & demanding the return of the police & security, but you are forgetting that the police (who acted no different than the thugs except having a shiny uniform) used to rob you every single day. And about those thugs who are terrorizing you, who let them out of their prisons in the first place and then refused to arrest them? Oh yes, I remember, the Police. Silly us for demanding that they get held accountable for their actions. We should beg them daily- like you- to come back to work unconditionally after they betrayed their oath to protect us & put us all in grave danger. Our bad.
You are concerned about your kids getting killed by thugs (who, again, reminder, are unleashed by the police), but you were not concerned that they were getting killed daily by the polluted water, the poisoned meats & fruits & vegetables, the completely unsafe roads & public transportation options, the complete and utter catastrophe that is health-care and Egyptian public hospitals, where far more people die than get better and where any Egyptian would rather not step a foot inside if they can afford to go to a private Hospital (which isn’t always incredibly better). Lest we forgot, even the grandson of our former President died in one of them. But yes, the thugs are the problem. Our bad.
You are concerned that the Islamists are going to take over the country and turn it into Afghanistan, and yet don’t seem concerned with taking concrete steps to ensure that this won’t happen without impeding their rights. A good way to do so is to demand the overhaul of the Egyptian education system, the end of bigotry & discrimination against minorities in all job positions (private or public), the removal of hate-inciting Imams or Priests from Mosques and Churches, and in case all of the aforementioned are too much for you to handle, you could simply stand for religious freedom and equal rights to all in Egypt, especially Egypt’s Christians, who in case you didn’t hear are getting attacked and their churches are getting burned and you don’t seem to care. We would recommend you take a small visit to the Maspiro protest and talk to “those people” and understand the issues at hand, but we also should understand that this would take some time from your busy schedule of complaining about us ruining everything. Our bad.
We get it. We see how we are irresponsible. How we are ruining the country. How we are not concerned about you. We are evil. A cancer that plagued this fine and healthy nation. 25 Khasayer. You are right not to like us. You are right to hold protests against protesting and only 500 of you would show up on a Friday and then claim you are talking in the name of the silent majority. Those millions of us who went down to support those demands are only from every social class and religious background and from both genders. We are in no way representative, especially that the majority of people in Tahrir right now are now the poorest of all the protesters, who are told to go home & live on 20 dollars a month salary until we figure all of this out in 6 month to a year, and all of your Korba Festival buddies are too busy to go there anymore. You want the ones who are still there to go home and leave u alone. After all the ones in Tahrir now are poor. They smell. Can’t have that! Egyptian people are not smelly or poor, of course. Shame on them for defaming us all.
So, since we are such a public menace and refuse to listen to reason, I have a proposal to all of you that will surely make you happy: How about we take all those people who took part in the revolution and supported it, and give them a piece of land in Egypt to create their own failed state on? Maybe somewhere in Sinai, on the beach, say Sharm el Sheikh for example? Yes, give us Sharm and some backland and leave us there, so you can continue living your lives in Peace and stability. We will give you back the Mubarak Family (we are not big fans) and we recommend you give us all those people you don’t like in return: you know those annoying minorities, like the Copts, the Bahaai’s , the Shia, the jews, the Nubians even. Yes, get rid of the races you dislike as well. We will take them all. We will even divide the people up fair and square and ensure that none of us remain with any of you. Ok? Let’s start right now.
You can have Ahmed Shafiq as your Prime Minister and we will take Essam Sharaf as ours.
You can have the NDP and its officials and we will have all the new political parties that are starting up all over the place.
You can have Aamr Moussa as your ideal Diplomat; we will take Mohamed ElBaradei as ours.
You can have Zaghloul elNaggar as your top Scientist; we will take Ahmed Zuweill.
You can have Alaa Mubarak, Ahmed Ezz, Mohamed Abu Elenein, ElMaghraby as your businessmen, and we will take Naguib Sawiris and the Bisharas and all the other businessmen in Egypt who want to run legitimate businesses without unnecessary bureaucracy and bribing 18 different entities to open and continue to run one.
You can Have Adel Emam, Yosra and Samah Aanwar, we will take Khaled Abulnaga , Basma and Yousra Ellouzy.
You can have Tamer Hosny and Mohamed Fouad, we will take Mohamed Mounir, Mariam Aly and Ramy Essam (and we will make sure no one tortures him while he is in their custody).
You can have Farouk Hosny, and we will take the artists that the revolution brought out.
You can have the Supreme Military Council meet your demands on their schedule and discretion; we will take the Revolution Trustee Council any day of the week.
You can have a country where women suffer from oppression, sexual assaults, genital mutilation and honor killing, we will have a country where women are in all positions of power, sexual harassment and FGM absolutely not tolerated, and where one gender doesn’t see that it has the right- in the name of honor- to oppress , beat and violently murder the other gender. We won’t tolerate that happening to our women; you can do with yours what you please.
You can keep a constitution that got amended so much in the past 7 years and still discriminates against many Egyptians and gives the President absolute Power, and we will have one that ensures the rights and equality of all of our citizens (no matterwhere their parents come from or whom they marry) and where there are checks and balances against executive Power.
You can keep an economy that is plagued with inefficiency, corruption, poverty and Monopoly. We will have one where entrepreneurship is encouraged and supported, our country open to all investments, and our workers are guaranteed a living wage.
You can keep a public school system in shambles and half of the population being illiterate, and be forced to pay for public schools and private tutoring for your children. We will have public schools that are well funded and teachers who are well-trained and well paid.
You can have your healthcare system being a complete and total fiasco where apathy and complete lack of concern for the patients’ well-being is what defines it, while our public Hospitals will be properly funded and staffed and those who due to negligence harm or kill a patient will be held accountable.
You can have a country where people believe that being civilized is to go for one day and clean Tahrir Square up, while we will believe that true civilization is ensuring that our government cleans our street up and as for us, well, we just won’t litter.
You can have Your Internal Security services spying on you, arresting you indefinitely, collaborating with terrorists to attack your churches (if you will continue to have any) torturing and/or kill you, and your Police to bully you and blackmail you. Our internal security service won’t do that to us and our Police will protect us, will uphold the law, and, god forbid, reduce crime and put criminals in jail instead of letting them out.
You can have an Army that dictates orders to you; we will have an army that obeys us.
As you can see, what we are asking for is totally unrealistic and we are completely dedicated to destroying ourselves. If we are truly such a problem, we urge you to help us make that happen, so we can get out of your hair as soon as possible.
But if you are insane and unreasonable like the rest of us, please join us and help us. We don’t want our own state, we want to do this here. We want our Country, Egypt, to be the best country it can be. One where we all can live and co-exist; one where the state is healthy and functions and all are represented and have rights. That’s what we always wanted and called for, and we don’t know when that message stopped being clear to you.
We are not saints. We make mistakes and we are not above criticism of any kind. You have the right not to help rebuild the country, and you have the right to criticize those who are trying to do it, but you don’t have the right not to help and only criticize that things aren’t exactly to your liking. If you don’t like something, change it. That was the lesson of the Jan25 revolution after all, you know?
So please, if you agree with our vision, join us, and if you can’t, simply defend us. We have achieved so much, that it would be a sin to stop now.
Hell I won't read them. Just post the headline and provide a link. Anyone interested will look further.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Well I read part of it until I realized it's his usual garbage.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Egypt Military considers postponing constitutional referendum, hold presidential elections first
Well informed sources have confirmed that there is a strong trend within the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to hold back the constitutional amendment referendum planned for 19 March, after a number of prominent political voices positioned themselves to vote against the amendments. Commenting on this, a source from the Supreme Council said: “Our eyes are on the opinion of the street and the existing political forces in the interest of the country, and if this is the trend among the people, then there is no problem in delaying the referendum." He went on to add, however, "the Supreme Military Council wants to bring an end to its role in governance as soon as possible.”
A government source, who met with the military council to discuss parliamentary and presidency elections, told Ahram Online that “the council is now leaning, though as yet undecided, towards holding the presidential election first, before parliamentary elections, and that the president would take his oath of office before the head of the supreme constitutional court." The elected president, the source said, would then invite a Constituent Assembly to formulate a new Constitution, which in turn would be put to a referendum ahead of parliamentary elections. The source went on to point out that this position came out of a meeting between the military council and the prime minister.
In a poll conducted by the Egyptian cabinet's Information Support Center on Saturday, 59 per cent said they would reject the amendments. Commenting on this, the military source said that he expected more of these polls to resolve the issue finally in the next few days.
In a similar vein, Judge Hossam Mekawy, head of the South Cairo Court and one of the most prominent representatives of the Judicial Independence trend, told Ahram Online “the military council has one eye on the situation in the street and another on the opinion makers among the political and intellectual elite.”
Mekawy pointed out that a vote on the constitutional amendments introduced by a specially constituted committee would, in fact, prove faulty in legal terms. Such a referendum had no legal basis in the 1971 Constitution, which the military had suspended, but which would be revived in the event the amendments were approved by popular referendum, creating a legally anomalous situation. Furthermore, he pointed out, the amendments do not touch on the seeping presidential powers which the 1971 constitution grants the president, and there is no guarantee that a president elected in accordance with that constitution will want to relinquish such powers.
He continued, “there are more problems for the military council studying the process of holding a referendum and elections as the military council are not covered by any article in the 1971 Constitution. The term ‘suspension of the Constitution’ is a legal anomaly and the problem remains that the military council does not have the right to either call presidential or parliamentary elections or name a committee before the Constitution falls completely.”
Mekawy added that, in fact, "the military council overthrew the president, for there is no constitutional or legally binding text that says the president can hand over his powers to the military, which underlines that he was forced to do so.”
أعلن ائتلاف شباب الثورة، في بيان له على صفحته على فيسبوك اليوم الاثنين، أنه رفض دعوة للقاء هيلاري كلينتون أثناء زيارتها للقاهرة.
هذاالاسبوع.وذكر البيان أنه: انطلاقا من حرص الائتلاف على العمل بوضوح مع جماهير الثورة يعلن الائتلاف انه تمت دعوة اعضاء من الائتلاف للقاء وزيرة الخارجية الاميركية هيلارى كلينتون وبناء على موقفها السلبي من الثورة فى بدايتها ومواقف الادارة الاميركية فى المنطقة فقد تم رفض هذه الدعوة. ولم يضف البيان اي ايضاحات اخرى.
ومن المقرر أن تقوم كلينتون بزيارة لمصر هذا الاسبوع في اطار جولة تقودها كذلك إلى تونس.
وهذا الموقف من وزيرة الخارجية لأنها كانت تدعم النظام وقالت في بداية الثورة ان النظام في مصر مستقر.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Arabic documentary of th revolution. A collection of events that lead to January 25
quote:Originally posted by this: In a poll conducted by the Egyptian cabinet's Information Support Center on Saturday, 59 per cent said they would reject the amendments.
I'm VERY interested to know how representative this poll was. Did they include Upper Egyptian villages and city slums?
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: In a poll conducted by the Egyptian cabinet's Information Support Center on Saturday, 59 per cent said they would reject the amendments.
I'm VERY interested to know how representative this poll was. Did they include Upper Egyptian villages and city slums?
I believe they were talking about the poll they had on their website. This week they have a different poll.
I think around 10% of Egyptians have internet access (but correct me if I'm wrong) and the number who found their way to the IDSC website would probably be... ???
OK, my educated guess... the referendum will get a majority yes vote but a large minority no vote.
There are already NDP party members giving out oil and sugar in the Ain Shams area to get a YES vote... !!
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
No comment.. Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
A spokesman for Sen. John Kerry told the Washington Times that the senator misspoke Wednesday when he said the U.S. had frozen more than $30 billion of assets belonging to ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, according to the Washigton times website.
The spokesman for Senator Kerry said he mistakenly referred to Mr. Mubarak instead of Libyan dictator Moammar Gaddafi.
During a question-and-answer session after a speech Wednesday at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, an Egyptian reporter asked Mr. Kerry if the U.S. intended to honor the new Egyptian government’s request to freeze Mr. Mubarak’s assets, saying nothing had yet been done.
The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee answered: “I understood we have frozen assets of President Mubarak, somewhere in the vicinity of $30 billion. And that includes properties in New York, properties in California, and bank assets, as well as in other parts of the world. But we ourselves — just us — have frozen $31.5 billion.”
The website of Sen.John Kerry, however, doesn't refer to the incident, while the Carnegie's Endowment website shows the video of the speech including the senator's reference to Mubarak's wealth freeze.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Ditto. You are too gullible.
Aljazeera did not lie and it is clear that he was answering a question form an Egyptian reporter regarding Mubarak and Egypt.
Here is the video the comments were made at the very end, right at the last minute or so.
It was the first time in my entire fvcking 60 + yrs. for me to ever see such an organised crowd of Egyptians patiently waiting in a queue to vote for anything.
I went past everyone (senior citizenship has finally paid me back), got some dirty looks from folks in their fifties who looked older than myself, some elderly folks were too old to climb up those idiotic stairs taking us to the polling hall, they were on crutches and volunteers (young tahrir-like ppl.) were helping them up and down again.
It was really quite an experience for all of us to be back to life.
I voted nay..I don't want to please the Salafis nor do I ever want to see them in power. Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: Albaradei stoned on his way to cast his vote and was escorted away without voting for fear for his safety.
Absolutely disgusting. This guy hasn't done nothing wrong to his country or his people.
Some Egyptians just need to be kept on a fUcking leash.
Did you really just say that? Really??!! Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
ES needs a spew smilie
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: It was the first time in my entire fvcking 60 + yrs. for me to ever see such an organised crowd of Egyptians patiently waiting in a queue to vote for anything.
I went past everyone (senior citizenship has finally paid me back), got some dirty looks from folks in their fifties who looked older than myself, some elderly folks were too old to climb up those idiotic stairs taking us to the polling hall, they were on crutches and volunteers (young tahrir-like ppl.) were helping them up and down again.
It was really quite an experience for all of us to be back to life.
I voted nay..I don't want to please the Salafis nor do I ever want to see them in power.
I took my 80 year old mother in law and her 88 year old sister. I tried to usher her to the head of the queue as did the 'shabab' in the men's queue. She refused, saying she was shabab like them! Actually over 50% of the women were over 60. Fortunately the queue moved fast and everyone was very good humoured. Many mutterings of 'first time' from the old people, possibly last for many of them!
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I voted Yes. It was an easy job. I voted at 9:30 AM. I managed to remove the red ink in my finger.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: Albaradei stoned on his way to cast his vote and was escorted away without voting for fear for his safety.
Absolutely disgusting. This guy hasn't done nothing wrong to his country or his people.
I am wondering what is the reason for that? This Albaradei must have made something wrong.
I read Amr moussa was met in a very respectable way..
There may be a sign here that I am not sure I can understand.
Can we say that The Egyptian like Amr moussa and hate albaradei to this degree?
This reminds me of the attack on George Bush by the shoes of the journalist in Iraq.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
"This Elbaradei" did nothing wrong trust me.
You just have animals living in your country. It doesn't matter which path Egypt will take you will always have to deal with uncivilized folks, their mentality won't change. And now that everyone is free and able to voice his opinion - rocks are flying. Great accomplishment to try to hurt a respected 68-year-old scientist and diplomat.
I am sure that Mubarak thugs will be blamed for doing this like for everything else too. Yeah just stick your heads in the Egyptian sand and believe everything you want to believe .....
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
We have animals here.. Animals feel, Love and hate ..
My Analysis for this incident is that there was a clash between the bodyguards of This Elbaradei and the crowd who comes to vote..
This Elbaradei has no popularity here in Egypt. He will not be a strong candidate. I believe Our next president is Amr Moussa.( thumb up to him)
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: "This Elbaradei" did nothing wrong trust me.
You just have animals living in your country. It doesn't matter which path Egypt will take you will always have to deal with uncivilized folks, their mentality won't change. And now that everyone is free and able to voice his opinion - rocks are flying. Great accomplishment to try to hurt a respected 68-year-old scientist and diplomat.
I am sure that Mubarak thugs will be blamed for doing this like for everything else too. Yeah just stick your heads in the Egyptian sand and believe everything you want to believe .....
Tigerlily, whether or not it was Mubarak's thugs today, it was certainly Mubarak's thugs in elections, referendums and protests for the last 30 years, and El Baradei was a victim along with any other opposing voices. That is historical, recorded fact.
And regarding animals... is your country - or any other - free of violent disruptive elements? What happened today was horrible, especially as everyone was so pleased at how respectful and organised the queuing crowds were in every area. This incident was an exception, and hopefully these exceptions will become fewer as time goes on.
Your perspective is difficult to understand. Do you believe that some peoples are genetically incapable of ruling themselves?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: "This Elbaradei" did nothing wrong trust me.
Why will I trust you that This Elbaradei did nothing wrong?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: Albaradei stoned on his way to cast his vote and was escorted away without voting for fear for his safety.
I am wondering what is the reason for that? This Albaradei must have made something wrong. Oh Tareq, think what you just wrote. Last year, when I spoke to Egyptian friends about the killing, by police, of that poor guy in Alex, they said exactly the same thing.
Maybe now in the coming years [or maybe decades?] people here will instinctively think that maybe a person is 'innocent until proven guilty'. BTW I think many countries in the world would be proud to have a [real] Nobel peace prize winner as a presidential candidate. Or would you rather have a man who thinks that if someone is attacked, they must have made something wrong... ???
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
I fully believe that there is no reason for such attack except if there is a mistake done by albaradei.
And not because he had a nobel prize, he get the full respect if he violates some lines of egyptian culture.
and I will feel respect and sympathy for him if he went to another place to vote. but albaradei left voting. Is that logic? He is supposed to be a president and he was weak and escaped and did not vote or tried to vote in other place. He could call the armed force to allow him to vote but he did not. What kind of a president is that?
This makes me think It is an organized incident done by albaradei himeself to draw attention..
I do not know really. These are the things I think of. you may agree or disagree.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
I can only speak as an outsider, as an Egyptian, your attitudes will carry more weight than mine in the future of your country; but in the time I have lived here and witnessed or heard about some pretty bad things, it has disturbed me that there really is a tendency to try to justify physical violence against fellow Egyptians on the grounds that 'they must have done something bad..' [Assaulting an old genleman in public is NOT bad?] If hurting people is ok, without any explanation is ok with you, fine, bring back the security police, legalise police brutality. He could call the armed force to allow him to vote ????? Or in fact, do not allow these 'bad?' people to take part in elections, imprison them, and bring back the old regime.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Rabab-Al-Mahdi: MB handing out flour and oil, and telling people, please vote "NO"
So take the oil and flour and vote "YES"
This was on AJE.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
I meant Yes-No and not No-Yes Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
That sort of thing is common in the UK
Back in my youth when I did hands-on politics, the old people voting for our party used to phone up the opposition and use their free transport to the polling station and then vote for us (so limiting amount of transport available for the other side's old ladies)
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The up side of a Yes win is that all the people who voted yes for stability and progress will hopefully shut up and stop complaining in fear of being mocked.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
The outcome of the referendum can give an idea of how well the MB will fare in parliamentary elections.
If the Yes Vote is 60% and No vote is 40%, by logical deduction when can assume the MB will have approximately 25%-30% of the parliamentary seats.
Surprise-Surprise as it's a given that their potential was anywhere between 20%-35%.
Just an opinion.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I don't think the Yes vote had much to do with the MB. A lot of people who do not want the MB still voted Yes for reason of fear and most of them had no clue what the amendments were and what they meant. The amendments remind me of Mubarak's first and second speeches after Jan25, pure insult to our intelligence.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Honestly I don't care who is in power in six months. If the MB will have a huge influence in Egypt's future politics, society, life in general so be it. Really it does not matter - what matters is what the majority of Egyptians want .
Mubarak and inside stability which incl. suppression of the MB wasn't right so see what you are getting now. Let the Islamists take over the country. Good luck with that.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: This makes me think It is an organized incident done by albaradei himeself to draw attention..
You are really something I have to tell you..... Creating some conspiracy theory here, aren't we????
I bet you don't even trust your own mother.
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: I do not know really. These are the things I think of. you may agree or disagree.
I fully disagree. The attack on El Baradei was such a nasty and unacceptable thing to do.
You know I - and I am not even Egyptian - sent an apology off to ElBaradei via Twitter. He probably will never read it but anyway. I actually apologized for some Egyptian dumbasses who think it's cool to attack an elderly man with rocks because of different political views.
Is this how democracy is supposed to start in your country? If so you will never have it, no democracy for all, no human rights, no freedom etc. it will all only be kalam.
And honestly I don't believe in any change at all in the Egyptian mentality. As I said before perhaps after two generations. Actually it will get even harder before it will get easier. Just remember that.
Oh and another thought before I log off for today: Your own people are deeply devided which hinders any possibility of a true democratic society in which all people will live equally. Unity is the key and unfortunately it's just not there.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
When one looks at the number of people who participated in the revolution and the number of people who voted it becomes very clear that large majority of the population has zero influence. All that is needed is a strong minority to make things happen.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: When one looks at the number of people who participated in the revolution and the number of people who voted it becomes very clear that large majority of the population has zero influence. All that is needed is a strong minority to make things happen.
I noticed this as well. And what about the illiterate, the ones who can't read. I've seen some of the ballots, they must've had at least a couple of thousand words.
So who do you think are the people who are actually voting?
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
I've always belonged to a miniscule minority, so what the heck, may the MB rule. Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
quote:Originally posted by this: When one looks at the number of people who participated in the revolution and the number of people who voted it becomes very clear that large majority of the population has zero influence. All that is needed is a strong minority to make things happen.
I noticed this as well. And what about the illiterate, the ones who can't read. I've seen some of the ballots, they must've had at least a couple of thousand words.
So who do you think are the people who are actually voting?
I read about an incident where voters were seriously confused and messed up their ballots because they could not find the Crescent and Camel symbols that they were used to. The NDP had always used those symbols and illiterate people just looked for them.
It appears that there are mix of reasons why people went out to vote and I personally thin it was mostly because it is different this time. They believe this time their vote will mean something but I think the vast majority of the voters had no clue what the issues were. That was not limited to illiterate people as I know of highly educated men and women who voted on gut feeling. There wasn't enough time to engage in debates and not enough time to correct misinformation. The logic that some government official used was just laughable.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
U.S. Senator John Kerry holds T-shirt in Tahrir Square
If 1 million people vote for A and 1million+1 vote for B, then B wins and you could say maybe 2 million person's votes made no difference - but who is to say which 'the one' was that did?
In fact Isaac Asimov who wrote a science fiction story published in 1955 called "Franchise" set in some future where 'they' had figured out a way of identifying 'the one' whose vote was the one that counted for a given election so only one vote would be cast.
“Franchise” is a short story about election polling in the future by the grandmaster of science fiction, Mr. Isaac Asimov. Originally published in If, the Science Fiction Magazine in 1955, this story was almost certainly inspired by the correct prediction of the 1952 presidential election by one of the original computers, the UNIVAC, designed by J. Presper Eckert and John Mauchly.
This concept was the inception point of Asimov's Multivac, the powerful Big Brother style computer that is featured for the first time in Franchise but makes many more appearances in Asimov's literature. In essence, Multivac is such a powerful computing device that it can filter through information fed to it and make decisions based on very limited inputs that factor in all available data.
In the Franchise the concept of electoral polling is taken to a new height (or low) by means of this awesome computing power. In essence, Multivac has taken away the necessity of voting by its constant interaction with social networks (far before such intractive media networks actually existed, another innovative Asimov concept) and demographic needs that make it understand what the people want and how to best decide who should be elected, from local school boards to the President of the United States.
That last piece of information that Multivac must utilize is the human element which emphasizes the randomness of the human mind. Inexplicably, Multivac apparently can gather enough of that data from a brief survey of one individual, and so that individual in essence through their input decides every election nation-wide. As it is explained each campaign season Multivac picks out one representative sample, and then the election is forever after known by that individual's name. So if John Smith was the selection, that year became the Smith Election and all things good or bad are then assigned to Smith.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
أهالي شهداء الإسكندريّة يهاجمون قسم الرمل بالحجارة عقب إخلاء سبيل “وائل الكومي”.
1-Not all yes voters are illiterate. and not all illiterate are uncultured and ignorant.
2-Not all Yes voters got flour and oil from MB
3- 25 jan youth do not represent the majority of Egyptian. We have a common target which to drop Mubarak oppression. But We do not agree on All what the 25 jan youth say and declare.
4- I fully disagreed to take one from each party to rule Egypt. This is just an insane stupid idea. It must be only one party to Rule.
Thankfully, We had a vote and we had a say.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Our TV said 40% didnt vote....to me that doesnt sound a good start...what is the turn out in previous elections/referendums?
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
those 40% might represent those who are full time workers or those with special needs.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by LovedOne:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: Albaradei stoned on his way to cast his vote and was escorted away without voting for fear for his safety.
Absolutely disgusting. This guy hasn't done nothing wrong to his country or his people.
Some Egyptians just need to be kept on a fUcking leash.
Did you really just say that? Really??!!
I don't agree with her "Some Egyptians just need to be kept on a f*cking leash" rhetoric.
But stoning el-baradei should be investigated, suspects need to be arrested and tried in court.
Keep in mind tigerweed's recent comments don't fall to far from this type of "keeping Egyptians on a leash" comment. And this is from a person who's sig line is "left my heart in Egypt". Possibly tigerweed gets off on being leashed and whipped. Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Well Australia has compulsory voting and manages over 90%...I can remember people even going to the old peoples home so they could make a vote even if they were too sick to get there. Seems a high amount of abstainers to me....I thought seeing whats happened it would be a high turnout.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Mind you the original article which was published by the Washington Post was removed.
Which is why I post the entire article. WHen they publish articles and then get negative feedback from the "powers that be" whomever they might be, conservatives end up asking to have articles filled with comment and facts pulled from the internet.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
just been reading about voter turnout in Wiki....lol...seems it may be genetic!!!!
'In addition to the twin study method, scholars have used gene association studies to analyze voter turnout. Two genes that influence social behavior have been directly associated with voter turnout, specifically those regulating the serotonin system in the brain via the production of monoamine oxidase and 5HTT.'
lol...
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
One of my friends said she didn't vote because the queues were too long. Another niqabi friend believes that governments are chosen by God and voting is unislamic. Maybe there are a fair few who genuinely couldn't make up their mind and are leaving it up to those who could? 60% turnout is on a par with the US presidential elections and 60-70% seems to be the going rate for non-compulsory democracies (India being the world's largest I believe and possibly most comparable with Egypt in terms of socio-economic factors (unresearched comment by me)) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turnout.png
PS Other friends did vote, some yes, some no. Most of those that did commented on how good it felt do feel that they did have a genuine choice.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
It was a 41% turnout not 60 which is still pretty good.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
A member of the supreme military council stated that they will announce a temporary constitution withing 48 hours! Come again
I just never know what to believe....
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The numbers released would not add up to 80%.
The total number of voters 18 million and five hundred and thirty seven thousand and nine hundred and four.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: Well Australia has compulsory voting and manages over 90%...I can remember people even going to the old peoples home so they could make a vote even if they were too sick to get there. Seems a high amount of abstainers to me....I thought seeing whats happened it would be a high turnout.
Enabling elderly voters to vote will be costly and will invade their privacy. Australia has the budget to pay for this, and the respect and safeguards for privacy and civil rights. Egypt has not shown the same respect for privacy and protection of civil rights, therefore I'd be against this arrangement.
I don't know many Egyptians who would enjoy an agency of the government arriving at their door for any reason.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: Yes Shanta...but turnout is pretty low in US...on that list in Wiki they were at the bottom....
US doesn't have compulsory voting. why bother comparing the US to Australia?
Voter turn out in national elections in my state is over 75%, thats non-compulsory voting.
This thread is on Egypt, you can chose to compare Egypt to your nation, but please don't drag your views of America into the discussion. You don't have the numbers.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: 60% turnout is on a par with the US presidential elections and 60-70% seems to be the going rate for non-compulsory democracies (India being the world's largest I believe and possibly most comparable with Egypt in terms of socio-economic factors (unresearched comment by me)) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turnout.png
Yup non-compulsary voting is the key indicator.
At the same time that wikipage doesn't indicate where they got the data from, data methodology or anything.
junk statistics, is junk without showing how those stats came to be.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Well dearest Metinoot this site points to poor voting rates in US too...http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html... You are right I dont want to get into a row with u about America,that would be stupid, but I think the point is that if voter turn outs arent high enough is a democracy viable and how many people even understand on what they are voting about? Id almost say from what we see here, America isnt much of a democracy anymore...and Id hate for Egypt to go down corrupt path America has where a president can get in on about 20% and then blow up heaps of countries like Bush...(shudders even at the thought of the creep)
If there wasnt compulsory voting here I dont reckon half the country would bother to vote...seems like thats about the same in lots of countries.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: Well dearest Metinoot this site points to poor voting rates in US too...http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763629.html... You are right I dont want to get into a row with u about America,that would be stupid, but I think the point is that if voter turn outs arent high enough is a democracy viable and how many people even understand on what they are voting about? Id almost say from what we see here, America isnt much of a democracy anymore...and Id hate for Egypt to go down corrupt path America has where a president can get in on about 20% and then blow up heaps of countries like Bush...(shudders even at the thought of the creep)
If there wasnt compulsory voting here I dont reckon half the country would bother to vote...seems like thats about the same in lots of countries.
Wow, thats predictable.
the infoplease website doesn't state how it compiled its data, the data sample, the data methodology, or anything.
and what infoplease uses as a source doesn't even compile voting data: http://www.fec.gov/
The FEC is for "administrating and enforcing federal campaign finance laws" not compiling statistical data on how many people vote.
Right now I am not making any vicious comments on Australia, nor quoting crap sources of the wrong statistical information.
Most of what you stated in the quoted post has nothing to do with voter turnout and everything to do with "Anti-Americanism".
Yet I take the high road! Why are Americans expected to turn the other cheek when Anti-Americanism raises its ugly head? Because Americans improved themselves over the land of our ancestors. Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
ok then darlin' is there a site or statistic you do find acceptable? A Metinoot Certified site? If your state is up to about 75% (but no link) shows there must be some pretty poor voting states.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ok then darlin' is there a site or statistic you do find acceptable? A Metinoot Certified site? If your state is up to about 75% (but no link) shows there must be some pretty poor voting states.
You are the one who made the assertion. I know the voting statistics of my state.
I didn't bother investigating the "90% compulsary voting" stat for australia because I am not out to tar and feather your nation.
Why don't you take the time to apologize for your anti-american remarks and I'll dig up the voting stats for my state.
Agreed?
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tareq: those 40% might represent those who are full time workers or those with special needs.
SPECIAL NEEDS? What does this supposed to mean? That El Baradei was stoned wasn't enough for you so you have to have a go at people with disabilities now? Let me spin this a little further. They are not REAL people so they shouldn't be able to vote in the first place????
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: U.S. Senator John Kerry holds T-shirt in Tahrir Square
Sorry but what is it with you and Kerry? You seem to endorse him here on ES.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Sorry Ive been busy Metinoot- ...ummm...apologise for anti american comments Metinoot? I think I am just concerned about when is a democracy not a democracy as Id imagined a turn out similar to what the laid back aussies manage.
I am sure there is lots I will like about america....its just Im dubious about an amazing country,full of awesome people that can manage to vote Bush junior in twice....its the same as how Id feel if Tony Abbot got to be PM here, or if Mabaraks son got elected in Egypt.
I wonder how many people in Egypt dont vote because of religious beliefs like Shantas niqab woman friend....
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
“We were told to strike hard and fast, that the protesters were a bunch of American University pansies who’d run away at the first gunshot.”
Thug life: Pro-Mubarak bullies break their silence
PS for clarification, and because others have made the inference earlier, just because I write 'interesting' by a link does NOT imply and it should NOT be inferred that I agree with any opinions expressed therein!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
There was a televised press conference to announce the results in detail and they are just over 41%. Anything else is false.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: U.S. Senator John Kerry holds T-shirt in Tahrir Square
Sorry but what is it with you and Kerry? You seem to endorse him here on ES.
That's not an endorsement. He and Clinton went to Tahrir for a photo op.
TL is interested more about some idiots in Florida that burn the Qur'an rather than what's actually going on in Egypt day to day.. Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
Thanks this....I'll believe u about the 41%...so that means under a third of the people voted yes-loads of people didnt really understand what they were voting for even tho they voted yes....but the constitution gets changed....yea! Go democracy! wtf! Lets hope they dont waste heaps of money on balloons and tickertape come the big election....wonder which egyptian celebs will endorse which candidate to help them get the popular vote....
Again the question...is there many people with the religious idea not to vote there like how Jehovahs witnesses wont vote?
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Well my understanding is that people were voting on an amendment version of the constitution. Then after the vote a statement from the Military Council that they be announcing a temporary constitution confused the hell out of me! Why a vote on something that will not be implemented? What does it mean to vote on a constitution then announce another temporary one? I read an hour ago or so that they are working on a constitution that contains the amendments and parts of the old constitution.
My belief is that realized after the amendments and setting the date for the referendum that the constitution as amended contained serious flaws and legal challenges as it was seriously contradictory, but they did not want to paddle back. That explains what a member of the council stated on TV that people were voting on the amendments only and not the rest of the constitution as it was nullified by the revolution but if that was the case why did the amendments include sections that canceled parts of the constitution? Why cancel something that has been nullified?
These people are a bunch of fucking armatures.
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: “
Thug life: Pro-Mubarak bullies break their silence
yes...interesting and good to put human face on things....omg about the 7 tonnes of Marajuana that the govt had him try sell!
Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
this-'Well my understanding is that people were voting on an amendment version of the constitution. Then after the vote a statement from the Military Council that they be announcing a temporary constitution confused the hell out of me! '
- and you are someone that does care and is trying to understand!!!!!
'
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser:
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: U.S. Senator John Kerry holds T-shirt in Tahrir Square
Gamal Mubarak at one point suggested to Adly the opening of the cages and Giza Zoo and letting wild animals out. Brilliant Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
العادلي : تلقيت تعليمات من جمال مبارك بقتل المتظاهرين
القاهرة : فجرت تحقيقات نيابة امن الدولة العليا مع وزير الداخلية الأسبق حبيب العادلي مفاجأة مثيرة في اطلاق الرصاص على المتظاهرين يوم 28 يناير/كانون الثاني المعروف باسم "جمعة الغضب" .
ونقلت صحيفة "الوفد" في عددها الصادر اليوم عن مصدر قضائي ، لم تسمه، عن اعتراف العادلي صراحة بأنه تلقى تعليمات من جمال مبارك بقتل المتظاهرين
وكشف المصدر أن النيابة سألت العادلي سؤالا فاصلا كالتالي: وهل جمال مبارك يشغل منصب رئيس الجمهورية لكي تنفذ قرار بهذة الخطورة ؟ اضاف المصدر بأن اجابة العادلي كانت واضحة بالنفي .
ويوجه العادلي تهمة القتل العمد لانصياعة لقرار غير سيادي ومن شخص لا يجلس على مقعد رأس الدولة.
واوضح المصدر ان القيد والوصف في نهاية التحقيقات مع العالي كان كان سختلف جملا وتفصيلا لو أجاب بأن الرئيس السابق هو الذي اصدر قرار بقتل المتظاهرين في جمعة الغضب .
في غضون ذلك ، قررت نيابة أمن الدولة العليا تجديد حبس حسن عبدالرحمن مدير أمن الدولة، واللواء اسماعيل الشاعر مدير أمن القاهرة واللواء عدلي فايد مدير الأمن العام، واللواء أحمد رمزي مديرالأمن المركزي السابقين لمدة 45 يوما في قضية قتل والشروع في قتل عشرات الشباب من المتظاهرين في الثورة.
ووجهت النيابة لقيادات الداخلية السابقين تهم اطلاق الرصاص الحي علي المتظاهرين يوم 28 يناير الماضي.
وفرضت أجهزة الأمن إجراءات مشددة حول خروج قيادات الداخلية من مقر النيابة العامة ونقلهم إلى سجن مزرعة طره. وتجري النيابة العامة تحقيقات موسعة حول تسبب الأربعة في قتل المتظاهرين أثناء الثورة، ضربا بالرصاص ودهسهم تحت عجلات عربات الأمن المركزي والسيارات المدرعة.
يذكر اهم سيواجهون جميعا أمام النيابة يوم الخميس الوزير السايق حبيب العادلى, الذى ألقى بتهم قتل المتظاهرين, والتسبب فى الإنفلات الأمنى عليهم.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
I'll use the Shanta line: It was bad electrical wiring. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Maybe - we'll see how much is still standing tomorrow.
And by the way about 3 days ago, I plugged a lamp in at home and flames literally started leaping from the socket and burned right through the cable in seconds! Darn chinese rubbish. Luckily I was in rubber-soled shoes and wrapped a cloth round my hand to yank it out of the socket.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: [ Don't be JEALOUS.
hmmmm... recurring theme?
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
Fire sweeps Egypt's Interior Ministry building as police protest outside to demand higher pay
By DIAA HADID , Associated Press
Last update: March 22, 2011 - 12:48 PM
CAIRO - Fire swept the upper floors of Egypt's Interior Ministry building on Tuesday as policemen protested outside to demand higher pay. A security official accused demonstrators of starting the blaze in downtown Cairo.
TV footage showed flames climbing the top floors of the building and a huge plume of black smoke filling the sky. Later, firefighters on tall ladders sprayed water to extinguish the fire.
One protester denied they had lit the fire and accused those inside of setting if off by burning security files to get rid of evidence of police abuses.
Many Egyptians still associate the Interior Ministry's security forces with the worst excesses of the regime of ousted President Hosni Mubarak. Earlier this month, protesters rallied outside State Security offices across the nation, storming some of them in a search of evidence of human rights violations.
Tuesday's protest outside the ministry, however, was held by policemen themselves. They want a minimum salary of $200 a month — much more than many get now — and other benefits, including improved health care. The mass demonstrations that toppled Mubarak on Feb. 11 have set off frequent protests by laborers, including police officers, seeking to improve their lot.
The security official said protesters lit the fire in the building housing in the ministry's personnel department. It then spread to an adjacent communications building.
One protester who arrived to see fires burning in the two buildings said it couldn't have been started by the crowd because they had no way of entering the heavily guarded compound. He accused workers inside of burning security files and starting the blaze.
"It is as if light just started to arrive and they want to bring back the darkness," he said, giving only his first name, Amil, because he feared government retribution.
About 15 central security trucks cordoned off the complex to prevent demonstrators from storming it. It remained unclear how the fire started, though onlookers said it appeared to begin in the six-story building's middle floors, then spread to the top.
Thousands of people collected in nearby streets to watch as four fire trucks extinguished the blaze. Military police in khaki uniforms and red berets prevented them from approaching the building.
Tuesday's demonstration also called for the return of former Interior Minister Mahmoud Wagdi, whom Egypt's military rulers replaced in a Cabinet shake-up this month aimed at removing stalwarts of the Mubarak regime.
Wagdi, who held the post for less than a month, was replaced by Maj. Gen. Mansour el-Essawy, a former Cairo security chief who has pledged to restore security and reduce the role of the hated State Security agency.
كشفت تحقيقات نيابة الأموال العامة عن مفاجآت جديدة في الاتهامات الموجهة لكل من انس الفقي وزير الاعلام السابق ويوسف بطرس غالي وزير المالية السابق حول اهدار النال العام والاضرار العمدي به من خلال صرف ملايين الجنيهات علي الدعاية الانتخابية للحزب الوطني والرئيس السابق حسني مبارك والتي احالهما النائب العام الي محكمة جنايات القاهرة بناء عليها.
وبناء علي قرار الاحالة الذي اعده المستشار علي الهواري المحامي العام الأول لنيابات الاموال العامة العليا تم إخطار الانتربول الدولي وتكليفه بالقبض علي يوسف بطرس غالي وزير المالية السابق الذي ثبت انه غادر البلاد بتاريخ 11فبراير 2011كما اكدت مصلحة الجوازات والهجرة وكلفت السلطات المصرية الانتربول الدولي بسرعة تسليم غالي ليمثل أمام محكمة جنايات القاهرة مع أنس الفقي . واثبتت التحقيقات أن يوسف بطرس غالي صرف مبلغ 36مليون جنيه من الأموال المخصصة لاحتياطيات السلع الاستراتيجية والاساسية ومواجهة الأزمات الطارئة التي تتعرض لها البلاد وذلك بعد ان طلب منه انس الفقي المبلغ لانفاقه علي التغطية الاعلامية لانتخابات مجلسي الشعب والشوري وتمويل الحملة الاعلامية الخاصة بالاحداث السياسية الهامة والانجازات التي تحققت منذ عام 1981وحتي عام 2010وهي فترة حكم الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك.
واشارت التحقيقات الي أن تلك الملايين تم صرفها بالمخالفة للمعايير المعتمدة من مجلس الوزراء والتي قصرت صرف هذه الاحتياطيات المالية المملوكة للدولة لمواجهة المتطلبات الجسيمة القومية الطارئة والالتزامات المستجدة كما أن مافعله وزيري الاعلام والمالية السابقين خالف قوانين الانتخابات الرئاسية والبرلمانية التي تحظر استخدام المال العام في الانفاق علي الدعاية الانتخابية .
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Protest in front of ministry of Tourism on March 31,2011 at 10:00AM against the reassignment of the same old board members of the 5 chambers that were dissolved earlier this month.
Simply put, the minister dissolved the chambers then issued another order to reinstate them with the exact same board member/business men who were accused of profiting from their close relation with former Minster Garana. In one case a court ordered a chamber closed for suspicion or corruption and conflict of interest. So the minster is taking the ministry back to the old days were court rulings were ignored and minister permits were the norm.
Peaceful protests of Egyptians????? I call that vandalism.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Not Cairo but Alexandria:
Student attendance in the schools of Alexandria has dropped to around 30 percent , with parents afraid to send their children to school due to the lack of security on the streets.
School bus drivers are refusing to collect children because they may not be able to protect them.
“This is an acceptable percentage of attendance, given the current circumstances,” said Mahmoud Abu Emeira, undersecretary in the Ministry of Education.
This is not gonna sit well with some other Egyptian activists.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
"Why did you publish a story that said Mubarak's family fortune was $70bn?" an Egyptian reader asked me in a face-to-face encounter in Cairo last week. For him it was not an academic question: "Some people thought it was part of a plan to encourage the revolution."
Exactly.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
What was religion doing in the debate on the Constitutional amendments?
Saturday's referendum concerned articles of the constitution related to presidential elections, the presidential term and emergency law. How, then, did religion come to dominate the debate, and influence the voting?
by Salma Shukrallah and Yassin Gaber, Tuesday 22 Mar 2011
After the victory for the “Yes” camp, many are wondering whether this was a consequence of the religious sway of Islamists and Salafists....
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: "Why did you publish a story that said Mubarak's family fortune was $70bn?" an Egyptian reader asked me in a face-to-face encounter in Cairo last week. For him it was not an academic question: "Some people thought it was part of a plan to encourage the revolution."
There was a clear plan and there are some other factors ( the united opposition parties , the camel incident, american objection, the armed force leaders ...)
This shows you that there is one god planning all these factors to oust this president.
Subhan Allah (Praise Allah.)
you know the camel incident was organized by one of the NDP. The camel was always known to be a symbol of the NDP in the election. It was just an amazing sign for the NDP to be involved in such a thing.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Egypt poised to become region's model of democracy
As foreign officials keep coming to Cairo the question remains the same: how to help Egypt become a model of democracy.
The expected visit of the Luis Ocampo, the prosecutor general of the International Criminal Court (ICC) on Wednesday will be groundbreaking.
It will be the first visit of its kind in Egypt, which had previously shrugged off the ICC upon the direct orders of toppled President Hosni Mubarak.
During his talks in Cairo with Nabil El-Arabi, foreign minister, and Amr Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League, Ocampo will address the situation in Libya, as the ICC continues its investigation of war crimes allegedly committed by Libyan ruler, Muammar Gaddafi against his own people in order to quell a movement to oust his regime.............
Peaceful protests of Egyptians????? I call that vandalism.
It doesn't look like it was vandalism rather more like planned destruction of evidence.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Egypt poised to become region's model of democracy
Not by a long shot. It looks no like the revolution needs to escalate to make point that basic rights and freedoms can no longer be restricted.
مجلس الوزراء يقر مشروع قانون يجرم التجمهر والإحتجاج
أقر مجلس الوزراء في إجتماع عقد صباح اليوم الأربعاء مشروع قانون “يجرّم حالات الاحتجاج والاعتصام والتجمهر”.
ويتضمن مشروع القانون عقوبتي الحبس والغرامة المالية التي قد تصل إلى نصف مليون جنيه.
علماً بأنه يسري هذا الحكم في حالة الطوارئ فقط، وينطبق على كل من نظّم أو حرّض أو دعا أو روّج بأي وسيلة لوقفة احتجاجية أو اعتصام أو تجمهر أو شارك في أي منهم، بحيث عاقت أو عطلت هذه الأفعال العمل بجهات العمل الخاصة أو العامة.
ويعاقب بالحبس أو بالغرامة التي قد تصل إلى نصف مليون جنيه، أو بكليهما من يرتكب هذه الجرائم المشار إليها.
البورصة تنهي أول جلسة لها بعد الثورة على انخفاض 8.9%
أنهت البورصة المصرية تعاملاتها الأربعاء على انخفاض وصل إلى 8.9%، وذلك في اول يوم للتداول منذ إغلاق البورصة المصرية تعاملاتها نتيجة لأحداث ثورة 25 يناير الماضي.
وشهدت البورصة بعد أول 16 ثانية من عُمر جلسة اليوم خسائر بلغت 9.93% وهو ما جعل إدارة البورصة توقف التداول على الأسهم لمدة نصف ساعة مع إعادة التداول الساعة الحادية عشر صباحا.
جدير بالذكر أنه جرى وقف التداول في البورصة المصرية بعد انتهاء جلسة يوم 30 يناير الماضي وهو أول أيام التداول بعد "جمعة الغضب" التي شهدت مواجهات دامية بين المتظاهرين وقوات الأمن. وفي ذلك اليوم خسرت مؤشرات الأسهم المصرية الرئيسية نحو 17% من قيمتها.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Egyptian women protesters forced to take ‘virginity tests’
23 March 2011
Amnesty International has today called on the Egyptian authorities to investigate serious allegations of torture, including forced ‘virginity tests’, inflicted by the army on women protesters arrested in Tahrir Square earlier this month.
After army officers violently cleared the square of protesters on 9 March, at least 18 women were held in military detention. Amnesty International has been told by women protesters that they were beaten, given electric shocks, subjected to strip searches while being photographed by male soldiers, then forced to submit to ‘virginity checks’ and threatened with prostitution charges.
‘Virginity tests’ are a form of torture when they are forced or coerced.
"Forcing women to have ‘virginity tests’ is utterly unacceptable. Its purpose is to degrade women because they are women," said Amnesty International. "All members of the medical profession must refuse to take part in such so-called 'tests'."
20-year-old Salwa Hosseini told Amnesty International that after she was arrested and taken to a military prison in Heikstep, she was made, with the other women, to take off all her clothes to be searched by a female prison guard, in a room with two open doors and a window. During the strip search, Salwa Hosseini said male soldiers were looking into the room and taking pictures of the naked women.
The women were then subjected to ‘virginity tests’ in a different room by a man in a white coat. They were threatened that “those not found to be virgins” would be charged with prostitution.
According to information received by Amnesty International, one woman who said she was a virgin but whose test supposedly proved otherwise was beaten and given electric shocks.
“Women and girls must be able to express their views on the future of Egypt and protest against the government without being detained, tortured, or subjected to profoundly degrading and discriminatory treatment,” said Amnesty International.
“The army officers tried to further humiliate the women by allowing men to watch and photograph what was happening, with the implicit threat that the women could be at further risk of harm if the photographs were made public.”
Journalist Rasha Azeb was also detained in Tahrir Square and told Amnesty International that she was handcuffed, beaten and insulted.
Following their arrest, the 18 women were initially taken to a Cairo Museum annex where they were reportedly handcuffed, beaten with sticks and hoses, given electric shocks in the chest and legs, and called “prostitutes”.
Rasha Azeb could see and hear the other detained women being tortured by being given electric shocks throughout their detention at the museum. She was released several hours later with four other men who were also journalists, but 17 other women were transferred to the military prison in Heikstep
Testimonies of other women detained at the same time collected by the El Nadeem Center for Rehabilitation of Victims of Violence are consistent with Rasha Azeb and Salwa Hosseini’s accounts of beatings, electrocution and ‘virginity tests’.
“The Egyptian authorities must halt the shocking and degrading treatment of women protesters. Women fully participated in bringing change in Egypt and should not be punished for their activism,” said Amnesty International.
“All security and army forces must be clearly instructed that torture and other ill-treatment, including forced ‘virginity tests’, will no longer be tolerated, and will be fully investigated. Those found responsible for such acts must be brought to justice and the courageous women who denounced such abuses be protected from reprisals.”
All 17 women detained in the military prison were brought before a military court on 11 March and released on 13 March. Several received one-year suspended prison sentences.
Salwa Hosseini was convicted of disorderly conduct, destroying private and public property, obstructing traffic and carrying weapons.
Amnesty International opposes the trial of civilians before military courts in Egypt, which have a track record of unfair trials and where the right to appeal is severely restricted.
Omg...the treatment of those brave women makes me feel sick...absolutely disgusting! Poor women and girls...
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: It doesn't look like it was vandalism rather more like planned destruction of evidence.
Yeah you are right. That's why they waited until the 22 March.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Hear hear.....
Egypt govt passes law criminalizing protests
Staff Wed, 23/03/2011 - 17:38
The Egyptian government on Wednesday passed a law criminalizing protests and strikes. Under the new law, anyone organizing or calling for a protest will be sentenced to jail and/or a fine of LE500,000.
The new law will be enforced as long as the current Emergency Law is in place, said the Council of Ministers in a statement on Wednesday. The Emergency Law has been in force since 1981 following the assassination of former President Anwar Sadat.
The new law will apply to anyone inciting, urging, promoting or participating in a protest or strike that hampers or delays work at any private or public establishments.
Since the overthrow of former President Hosni Mubarak on 11 February, Egypt has witnessed nationwide labor strikes and political protests. Among those protesting have been university students, political activists, railway workers, doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, journalists, pensioners, and the police force.
I think you mean "here here". Take it you'll be petitioning for the same in Germany without delay.
The comment underneath sounded sensible enough:
"Progress? Is this a step forwarth or backwarth? What's happening now with this law is that people are being silenced again. Was that not one of the reasons to topple Mubarak and his regime? Off course I understand the intention of this measure, but I am reluctant for the effect of it. The man in the street now is aware of his rights, his deficits and still wants a better life. For him that life started with the whith freedom of speech, ability to express what's in his mind and heart. He tries to make an honest fight for a better life for his family and relatives. And now he sees a glimpse of the chance to change it, he gets a warning again, like before January 25th: don't express, cause when you do, you get punished.... Really, huge progress. Why do rulers have the imagination that suppressing is the correct way to achieve their goals? It's a familiair method; I doubt it's the best. But what else can you expect from people who still benefit an unchanging society?"
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Two More Cruise Lines Return to Egypt
Yeah Romance Tourism for Easter, things are getting back to normal!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: Omg...the treatment of those brave women makes me feel sick...absolutely disgusting! Poor women and girls...
I, like many-unfortunately-, tend doubt these types of allegations because of how extreme they sound. Then almost without exception they turn out to be true. I recall the first report I read about Khaled Saeed, I skimmed the article quickly and dismissed it as unlikely as I could not believe that the police would be so criminal. I knew they had committed heinous crimes before but this one was just in your face, we do anything we like kind of crime. It was **** you Egyptians one and all.
Posted by Tareq (Member # 18033) on :
Can we rate the content here? I am very weak to even try to read.
I am confused. Was that when the thugs came to al-tahrir and the army asked the protesters to leave warning them of thugs coming? I do not remember exactly what the protesters were seeking.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I think you mean "here here". Take it you'll be petitioning for the same in Germany without delay.
I meant what I said. You need to stop making a monkey @ss out of yourself on this forum. You decided to throw dirt first but you get upset if it hits you right back in your ugly face. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I think thats a 'NO' to the same in Germany, wouldn't want the first world nations having dictators and certainly wouldn't want any third world nations being promoted to their level of democracy. Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Cairo University is a real mess today. The professor who was going to show me the messiness just fled in fear. 37 minutes ago http://twitter.com/#!/NickKristof Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
quote:Originally posted by this:
quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: Omg...the treatment of those brave women makes me feel sick...absolutely disgusting! Poor women and girls...
I, like many-unfortunately-, tend doubt these types of allegations because of how extreme they sound. Then almost without exception they turn out to be true. I recall the first report I read about Khaled Saeed, I skimmed the article quickly and dismissed it as unlikely as I could not believe that the police would be so criminal. I knew they had committed heinous crimes before but this one was just in your face, we do anything we like kind of crime. It was **** you Egyptians one and all.
I can remember once thinking that nothing would shock me any more as I thought Id read or seen so much on TV and felt quite numb or desensitised about so many awful things and a few days later Rowanda massacres happened. I just have to hope the 'good' somehow wins...it really shouldnt be that hard to show respect! Then again even in these forums people I assume are clever resort to low comments when unwarrented...(wonders why TL is being rather harsh lately...can take away from some interesting points)
Posted by Monkey (Member # 17287) on :
في استطلاع لعينة من شباب التحرير %70 في انتظار أحزاب الشباب و%10 ينتمون للأخوان
اليوم مر شهران علي انطلاق شرارة ثورة الشباب في الخامس والعشرين من يناير واحتفالا بهذه الثورة التي أعادت للمصريين الكثير من القيم التي كانت غائبة عنا بسبب اللامبالاة والقهر السياسي والاقتصادي قمنا بعمل استطلاع رأي ميداني من داخل ميدان التحرير, وكانت الفتر البحثية من18 فبراير وحتي11 مارس. التقينا خلالها بحوالي1000 شاب وفتاة وسألناهم عن دورهم في الثورة وعن آرائهم بالنسبة لعدد من القضايا والموضوعات التي أثيرت في الأسابيع الماضية مثل المشاركة في الأحزاب السياسية التي سينشئها الشباب وأن يكون يوم25 يناير هو العيد القومي لمصر بدلا من23 يوليو وأكثر الشخصيات التي أثارت تقديرهم وإعجابهم أثناء الثورة والشخصيات التي صدموا في أرائها ثم السؤال الأهم من الذي نرشحه لمنصب رئيس الجمهورية, تعالوا معا ونحن نحتفل بمرور شهرين علي الثورة نتعرف عل نتيجة هذا الاستطلاع الهام, هذا الاستطلاع يختلف عن غيره من الاستطلاعات التي يتم نشرها علي المواقع الالكترونية المختلفة في أنه تم باللقاءات المباشرة مع الجمهور تضمن الاستطلاع أربعة عشر سؤالا وأنقسم إلي ثلاثة أقسام القسم الأول: كان معلومات حول المشارك عمره وإذا ماكان قد شارك في الثورة منذ يومها الأول وكيف تعرف عليها وأسباب مشاركته في المظاهرات وقيامه بأي عمل تنظيمي فيها والمبيت في الميدان والقسم الثاني: حول نتائج الثورة وكانت تتضمن أسئلة حول: النسبة التي تحققت من أهداف الثورة والمشاركة في الانتخابات المقبلة والانضمام إلي الأحزاب السياسية وإمكانية إنشاء أحزاب للشباب والمشاركة فيها. والقسم الثالث: كان حول بعض القضايا والموضوعات التي أثيرت في الفترة الأخيرة ومنها هل توافق علي تغيير ميدان التحرير إلي ميدان الشهداء وهل توافق علي يوم أن يكون25 يناير هو العيد القومي لمصر بدلا من23 يوليو وماهي اكثر الشخصيات التي أثارت إعجابك والشخصيات الاخري التي صدمت من أرائها ومواقفها ومن الذي ترشحه رئيسا للجمهورية ومن خلال تحليل مضمون الاستطلاع تبين أن نسبة المشاركين من الذكور كانت ضعف نسبة الإناث وذلك بنسبة68% إلي32% ـ و الفئة العمرية الأكثر مشاركة من20:30 عاما بنسبة37% يليها من30:40 عاما بنسبة26%, ثم من40:50 عاما بنسبة19% وأكثر من50 عاما بنسبة10%. جاءت نسبة الذين شاركوا في مظاهرة يوم25 يناير55%, أحتل الفيس بوك الصدارة كمصدر للتعرف علي بداية التظاهرات وهو ما أكده مايقرب من40% من المستطلعين ويليه الإعلام بنسبة35% ثم الأصدقاء بنسبة27% بخلاف مصادر أخري. بالنسبة لأسباب المشاركة في المظاهرات ذكر66% أنهم شاركوا في الثورة من أجل إسقاط النظام في مصر بأكمله في حين ذكر17% أن مطلبهم الرئيسي تنحي الرئيس وأصر البعض علي تسويد خانة أسباب أخري بجانب أحد الاختيارات السابقة وذلك بنسبة20% وكانت أهم الأشياء الاخري التي أشاروا إليها( كأسباب للمشاركة في المظاهرات) محاربة الفساد, إلغاء قانون الطوارئ, الإفراج عن المعتقلين, إسقاط الظلم, الحرية والعدالة الاجتماعية, القضاء علي البطالة كرامة المصريين, مستقبل أفضل للأبناء, حسن توزيع الثروة, وكان من بين التعليقات عشان نخلي بلدنا أحلي وأجمل. وحول المشاركة في الأعمال التنظيمية في المظاهرات والمبيت في الميدان أكد30% أن مشاركتهم في الأعمال التنظيمية في المظاهرات كان من بينها المبيت في الميدان, عمل مجموعات علي الفيس بوك للدعوة إلي المشاركة في الميدان, الدفاع عن المتحف, تنظيم الدخول, تمريض الجرحي, توزيع المواد الغذائية والمشروبات, الدفاع عن الشباب أثناء موقعة الجمل, تنظيف الشوارع, تأمين صفوف المتظاهرين, قيادة المسيرات الفرعية, لجان تفتيش, وأكد عدد كبير علي أنهم شاركوا إما في كل أيام الثورة أو في اغلبها. وحول ما إذا كانت الثورة حققت أهدافها ومطالبها فان حوالي35% يرون أن الثورة حققت50% من أهدافها و26% يرون أنها حققت75% من أهدافها في حين أن12% يعتقدون أنها لم تحقق سوي25% من أهدافها و10% تري أنها حققت اقل من ذلك, في حين أن5% تري أنها حققت كامل أهدافها وهو مايعني أن النسبة الأغلب من الشباب علي قناعة من أن ماقاموا به هو بداية الطريق وان المشوار مايزال طويلا لتحقيق الأهداف التي يسعون إليها وأن إسقاط النظام لم يكن سوي الخطوة الأولي. وحول الحرص علي المشاركة في التصويت في الانتخابات المقبلة أكد أكثر من96% من الشباب أنهم سيشاركون وعن, وعما إذا سيشاركون في أي حزب سياسي فذكر60% أنهم سيسعون للمشاركة وأيد70% من الشباب إنشاء أحزاب جديدة تضم شباب الثورة وتباينت الأسماء المقترحة للأحزاب الجديدة من حزب شباب الثورة( حزب شباب25 يناير), وأشار البعض إلي إمكانية إنشاء أكثر من حزب سياسي لشباب الثورة, ائتلاف الثورة, حزب الثوار, في حين ذكر ما يقرب من10% عن رغبتهم في الانتماء إلي الحزب الذي سينشئه الأخوان المسلمون حيث عبر البعض صراحة بعبارة حزب الإخوان المسلمون, في حين ذكر الأغلب الاسم المقترح لهم( الحرية والعدالة) وبنسبة حوالي2% من المستطلعين ذكروا انتمائهم إلي أحزاب أخري ومنها الوفد والغد والجبهة الديمقراطية و6 أبريل والناصري والكرامة والتجمع وذكر مشاركا واحد أنه سينتمي إلي الحزب الوطني في حين أكد18% من أنهم يعتقدون انه لا ينبغي أن يكون لشباب الثورة أحزابا خاصة بهم وأكدوا أنهم لن يشاركو في أي حزب سياسي.
العيد القومي لمصر وحول تغيير العيد القومي لمصر ليصبح يوم25 يناير بدلا من23 يوليو فأكد66% من المشاركين تأيدهم للفكرة في حين رفض ذلك25% وأقترح البعض إن يظل العيد القومي لمصر كما هو علي أن يكون يوم25 يناير هو عيد لثورة الشباب وأجازة رسمية احتفالا بثورة الشباب بدلا من الاحتفال بعيد الشرطة, هل توافق علي تغيير اسم ميدان التحرير إلي اسم ميدان الشهداء فأيد بنسبة68% هذا الاختيار وأضاف البعض إمكانية إن يكون اسمه ميدان شهداء التحرير, في حين فضل32% بقاء اسم الميدان كما هو هذا الشخص أحبه وهذا الشخص أكرهه كان السؤال الذي أثار تباينا غريبا بين المشاركين في الاستبيان هو أكثر الشخصيات التي أعجبت بها في الثورة وأكثر الشخصيات التي صدمت فيها, حيث أختار البعض بعض الشخصيات الرمزية مثل الجيش, شهداء الثورة, الثوار وشباب الثورة, شعب مصر, شباب الإخوان, بينما صدموا في التليفزيون المصري وحجم الفساد والحكومة بأكملها والممثلين والرياضيين المنافقين, الأحزاب, الأمن المركزي والشرطة. الأغرب أن نجد بعض الشخصيات قد أنقسم الرأي حولها ما بين إعجاب البعض وبين رفضهم له وصدمتهم فيهم مثل: وائل غنيم, البرادعي, أحمد شفيق, محمود سعد, أحمد زويل, علاء الأسواني, أسماء محفوظ, إسراء عبد الفتاح, أيمن نور, القرضاوي, محمد حسان في حين أن الشخصيات التي لم يختلف الجميع عن أنها أثارت صدمتهم فقد تصدرها الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك وعائلته, حبيب العادلي, حيث احتلا النسبة الأعلي في التصويت, وحرص البعض علي كتابة أسماء أخري صدموا فيها وكان من بينهم, عمر سليمان, زكريا عزمي, محمد أبو العينين, مرتضي منصور, أحمد أبو الغيط, صفوت الشريف, فاروق العقدة, انس الفقي, رشيد محمد رشيد, شيخ الأزهر, مفتي الجمهورية, البابا شنودة, فتحي سرور, ومن الإعلاميين والفنانين: عمرو أديب, أسامة سرايا, مصطفي بكري, تامر أمين, خالد صلاح, هناء السمري, سيد علي, أحمد المغربي, مصطفي الفقي, تامر حسني, سماح أنور, زينة, عمرو دياب, حسن يوسف, شمس البارودي, عادل إمام. الغريب انه أي أن من المشاركين لم يذكروا اسم أحمد عز بين أسماء أكثر الشخصيات التي سببت لهم صدمة وعندما استفسرنا عن ذلك من احد المشاركين علق ساخرا أن أحمد عز مش محتاج صدمة ومعروفون من البداية فلم نصدم فيه. بالنسبة للشخصيات التي أجمع الشباب علي إعجابهم بها ولم يثر حولها أي اختلاف أو تباين في الرأي تصدرها الداعية صفوت حجازي, عمار الشريعي, بلال فضل, عمرو حمزاوي, محمد البلتاجي, عمرو خالد, مني الشاذلي, عمرو واكد, الفنانة نسمة, المخرج خالد يوسف, تيسير فهمي, أبو العز الحريري(عضو مجلس شعب سابقا), المستشار زكريا عبد العزيز, الفنان خالد الصاوي, نادر السيد, عصام العريان, حسنين هيكل, ممدوح حمزة, الضابط أحمد شومان, اللواء محسن الفنجري( الذي أدي التحية للشهداء), ومن الأشياء الطريفة التي ذكرها البعض في خانة الشخصيات التي أعجبوا بيها( الراجل الواقف ورا عمر سليمان) في حين أن البعض أصر أن يقول أن والدته أو والده هو من أثار إعجابه خلال تلك الثورة, البعض الأخر ذكر بالاسم احد زملاءه في الميدان الذين أصيبوا بطلق ناري أو من لم يتوقع أن ينزل إلي الميدان من جيرانه وأصدقائه وخلافه و قاموا بأدوار تتسم بالشجاعة. من هو الرئيس؟؟ رغم أنه من المبكر للغاية أن نتعرف علي الشخص الذي سوف يجمع عليه المصريون رئيسا قادما لمصر وفي ظل أن بورصة الاختيار في صعود وهبوط عبر الانترنت والفيس بوك فأننا من خلال هذا لاستطلاع الذي شارك فيه حوالي1000 شاب كان هناك وضوحا أن هناك عدد من الأسماء هي التي تسيطر علي الساحة, في حين أن هناك طرحا لعدد أخر جديد الاستبيان يوضح إن النسبة الغالبة من المشاركين فيه لم يحددوا بعد الشخصية التي سيختارونها كرئيسا لجمهورية مصر وإنما حرصوا جميعا علي التنويه عن ابرز الملامح والسمات التي يريدونها في الرئيس القادم, فهم أكدوا أنهم يريدون شخصا جديدا والأجدر والأصلح أو أي مواطن لديه وعي, ذكر البعض انه حتي تلك اللحظة لا يعلموا من سيختارون وان الاختيار سيتم حسب البرنامج الانتخابي لكل مرشح, وتباين أراء الناس وقال البعض أرشح أي خادم لمصالح مصر, أي شخص شريف يحافظ علي هذه البلد, قال أخر أرشح من يتعهد بضمان الحرية والديمقراطية, فيما كرر أكثر من مشارك يريدون مرشحا نظيفا ليس له علاقة بالفساد وأكد البعض علي أنهم يريدون شخص من خارج النظام, وفضل البعض أن يكون شاب مابين الأربعين والخمسين, وكل تلك الأمور هي بمثابة مواصفات يطرحونها لاسم لا يعرفونه بعد, ويلي تلك المجموعة التي احتلت المقدمة مجموعة أخري اختارت عمرو موسي والذي تصدر قائمة المرشحين ويليه أحمد زويل, البرادعي, كمال الجنزوري, هشام البسطويسي, احمد شفيق, السفير نبيل العربي, فاروق الباز, عمر سليمان, عمرو خالد, المستشار/ طارق البشري, جودت الملط, عصام العريان, أي مرشح للإخوان المسلمين, المشير طنطاوي, الفريق سامي عنان, وحصل علي عدد قليل من الأصوات الدكتور علي لطفي, حسب الله الكفراوي, المستشار محمود الخضيري, حمدين صباحي, أيمن نور, جميلة إسماعيل, أسامة الغزالي حرب, عمرو حمزاوي, معز مسعود, د/ سليم العوا. في حين رشح البعض أسماء بعض الشباب مثل: مصطفي النجار, وائل غنيم. ومما سبق يتضح أن الشباب حائر ما بين اختيار لخبرة الخبرة ورغبته في ظهور مرشح جديد بعيد عن الأسماء المتداولة وربما خلال الأيام السابقة يظهر مجموعة من المرشحين الذين يقلبون المعادلة رأسا علي عقب. ملاحظات علي الاستطلاع: - نسبة المنتمين للإخوان المسلمين لا تتعدي10% إلي15%. - المنتمون للأحزاب السياسية لا يتعدي2% إلي3%. - هناك رغبة جادة للمشاركة السياسية تنتظر لمن يوجهها الوجهة الصحيحة. - الشباب لديه شعور بفقدان الثقة في كثير من الرموز السياسية والإعلامية. -الاستطلاع لم يتعرض لعدد من المشكلات وعلي رأسها الفتنة الطائفية, لأنه تم البدء فيه قبل ظهور مشكلة أطفيح, ويتم حاليا عمل استطلاع حول عدد من القضايا المطروحة علي الساحة.
By Ashraf Sadek-The Gazette Online Saturday, March 26, 2011 05:29:58 PM
CAIRO - Police have detained a score of men who tried to break into el-Mazraa Prison on Friday morning to free hundreds of inmates, including ex-Interior Minister Habib el-Adli, who is awaiting trial next month, security sources said.
The unidentified men tried to storm into the prison building on the outskirts of Cairo to release their imprisoned friends and family members including el-Adli, who has been charged with committing capital crimes, the sources added.
The break-in attempt is the latest in a string of embarrassing security lapses in Egypt, raising questions about the country's ability to ensure its own security after the January 25 revolution, which toppled Mubarak.
The entire prison staff as well as riot police fired warning shots in the air to disperse the crowd and prevent the convicts from escaping, according to the sources.
The police arrested 20 suspects, who said that they were trying to release their relatives and friends, who should only be set free after serving half of their prison terms in accordance with a decree issued by ex-Interior Minister Major-General Mahmoud Wagdi.
The attack on el-Mazraa (The Farm) Prison, in Tora, south of Cairo, came just one hour before the weekly Friday noon prayers.
Authorities said the attackers tried to prise open the main gate to help the convicts, who were gathering in the main courtyard, to escape.
However, no-one on the inside appears to have been actively involved in organising the failed breakout, they stressed.
The attack triggered an immediate backlash in Cairo against top security officials, while a special committee has been formed to investigate the incident.
The committee has ordered that the number of police checkpoints be increased on the road leading to el-Mazraa Prison.
Official figures have shown that one-quarter of the nation's prisoners have managed to escape since January 28.
Some allege that the prison breaks have been engineered by the embattled el-Adli, who is trying to cling to power by creating anarchy.
A few days after the revolt began on Jan. 25, police vanished from the streets and the military took over; a transition that was followed immediately by the eruption of looting, arson and lawlessness on the streets of the capital, Cairo.
under house arrest by the country's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.
The council made the announcement through a statement posted on its website on Monday.
The statement refuted reports that Mubarak had sought refuge in Saudi Arabia.
Following a popular revolution in the country, Mubarak handed over power to Egypt's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, which is headed by Defense Minister Gen. Mohammed Tantawi.
The remarks come after local news reports said that Mubarak had traveled to Saudi Arabia to receive treatment for pancreatic cancer at a hospital in Tabuk.
The Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz was the first Arab leader to express a full support for Mubarak and to describe the Egyptian revolutionary forces as a handful of 'infiltrators.'
The developments come as Mubarak and his former petroleum minister Sameh Fahmy are under investigation for selling natural gas to Israel and several Western countries for artificially low prices.
In December, Israel signed 20-year contracts with Egypt worth more than USD 10 billion (EUR 7.4 billion) -- much cheaper than global prices -- to import Egyptian natural gas.
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Egypt army shortens curfew Text size
CAIRO, Mar 28, 2011 (AFP) - The curfew imposed in Cairo and two other major Egyptian cities was reduced on Monday to three hours, state news agency Mena quoted a military official as saying.
"It was decided to lighten the curfew to three hours, from 0200 (0000 GMT) to 0500 (0300 GMT)," the official said.
The restriction had been in place between the hours of midnight and 0600.
It was imposed on January 28 in Cairo, Alexandria in the north and Suez in the east after violent riots during the popular uprising demanding the resignation of president Hosni Mubarak.
Mubarak was forced to resign and handed power to the army on February 11, after 18 days of an unprecedented revolt.
The U.S. Department of State urges U.S. citizens planning to travel to Egypt to consider the risks and to be aware of the information below. This Travel Warning replaces the Travel Warning dated February 18, 2011, to update information on the ongoing security and political situation in Egypt, including the return to Egypt of most non-emergency US Embassy personnel.
On February 1, the Department of State ordered the departure of all non-emergency government personnel and family members from Egypt due to the ongoing political and social unrest. The U.S Embassy in Cairo remains on ordered departure status for dependents, but most employees have returned, and the Embassy is resuming normal operations.
Elements of the Egyptian government responsible for ensuring security and public safety are not fully reconstituted and are still in the process of being reorganized. Until the redeployment of Egyptian civilian police is fully restored, police response to emergency requests for assistance or reports of crime may be delayed. The Embassy’s ability to respond to emergencies to assist U.S. citizens is also significantly diminished. The Government of Egypt has implemented a country-wide curfew. As of March 29, the curfew hours are from 2:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. U.S. citizens should obey curfew orders and remain indoors during curfew hours.
The security situation in Luxor, Aswan, and the Red Sea Resorts, including Sharm el Sheikh, is calm; however, the situation across Egypt remains unpredictable and subject to change. Travelers should remain in contact with their tour operators.
All airports, including the Cairo airport, are open and operating; commercial airlines report flight availability. Travelers should remain in contact with their airlines or tour operators concerning flight schedules. U.S. citizens who reside in Egypt should keep their travel documents up to date and maintain sufficient funds on hand to depart by air should security conditions change.
Male dual Egyptian–U.S. nationals who have not completed military service and have stayed in Egypt for more than six months are required to obtain an exemption certificate through the Ministry of Defense Draft Office before they can leave Egypt. The Ministry of Defense Draft Office reports they are open daily to provide exemption certificates.
The U.S. Department of State strongly urges U.S. citizens to avoid all demonstrations in Egypt, as even peaceful ones can quickly become violent and a foreigner could become a target of harassment or worse. U.S. citizens who are near demonstrations should remain in their residences or hotels until the demonstrations subside. Security forces may block off the area around the U.S. Embassy during demonstrations, and U.S. citizens should not attempt to come to the U.S. Embassy during that time. U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security. U.S. citizens should carry identification and, if moving about alone, a cell phone or other means of communication that works in Egypt.
The U.S. Embassy is open for all routine American Citizens’ Services by appointment. U.S. citizens needing emergency assistance do not need an appointment. Visit the Embassy website to check the latest changes to embassy hours or services. U.S. citizens with routine phone inquiries may call the Embassy’s American Citizens Services section at 2797-2301, Sunday to Thursday from 1:00 p.m. until 3:00 p.m. For emergencies after business hours and on weekends and holidays, U.S. citizens can contact the Embassy Duty Officer via the Embassy switchboard on 2797-3300. The U.S. Embassy is closed on U.S. federal holidays. U.S. citizens in Egypt are encouraged to enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP). By enrolling, U.S. citizens make it easier for the Embassy to contact them in case of emergency.
For the latest security information, U.S. citizens traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department of State’s Internet website where the Worldwide Caution, Country Specific Information for Egypt, Travel Warnings, and Travel Alert can be found. Follow us on Twitter and the Bureau of Consular Affairs page on Facebook as well. Up to date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the United States and Canada, or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).
The Embassy is located at 5 Tawfik Diab Street (formerly known as Latin America Street), Garden City, Cairo. For emergencies after business hours and on weekends and holidays, U.S. citizens can contact the Embassy Duty Officer via the Embassy switchboard on 2797-3300. The American Presence Post (APP) in Alexandria is closed to the public until further notice. U.S. citizens in Alexandria needing emergency consular services may come to the Consular Section in Cairo during the hours noted above.
Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
I received the same e-mail Chef Mick. I will be returning to Egypt in July. By the following statement "U.S. citizens who reside in Egypt maintain sufficient funds on hand to depart by air" lets me know that there is the great possibility they won't charter flights as before if there is unrest.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dilemma: I received the same e-mail Chef Mick. I will be returning to Egypt in July. By the following statement "U.S. citizens who reside in Egypt maintain sufficient funds on hand to depart by air" lets me know that there is the great possibility they won't charter flights as before if there is unrest.
i am not scared....i will be with my family..if i could id stay there...( will be soon anyway). i should be returning the end of summer..god willing. you should be fine by July Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
I havent had any hassles or problems whatsoever throughout everything. I never thought about leaving
Posted by Dilemma (Member # 16672) on :
My employer have given me until July to return. I will return with my friend.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Egypt revolution fortunes swing back up despite Brotherhood backtracking The revolution is far from being over, even if the Muslim Brotherhood has sold out, say young revolutionaries reinvigorated by the success of the Friday to Save the Revolution
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Apr 1st, 2011 | By Manar Ammar | Category: Egypt, Featured, Women, Women Featured
Former Egyptian television anchor and activist Bothaina Kamel announced on her Twitter account late Friday evening Cairo time that she plans to run for president in the next round of elections, making her the first woman ever to announce her candidacy for Egypt’s highest office.
“I intend to run for [the] presidency in 2011,” Kamel wrote. Coinciding with the announcement, she also changed her profile description to “Journalist & Mother and Egyptian presidential nominee.”
Kamel was active before and during the 18 day revolution that brought down former President Hosni Mubarak on February 11. She is known as being a supporter of the youth movements and a familiar face at almost all pro-democracy protests in previous years leading up to the January 25 movement.
Kamel began her career in radio where she hosted a popular radio show called “e3terafat li’leya,” or “Nightly Confessions,” where anonymous callers told her personal stories. She later moved to television, and until recently hosted “argook ifhemny,” or “Please Understand Me,” where she interviewed many social and political figures in Egypt.
2 more martyrs.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
A friend has just posted on his FB that protestors are throwing rocks into the Museum by which I assume he means the Egyptian Museum. I think he is actually there right now but not 100% sure.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
The army is going to get it in the ass.
Posted by LovedOne (Member # 10222) on :
From what I heard, it wasn't the army but thugs of the old NDP. I don't know what the actual source of this is, just something I heard. Perhaps I should have asked. Posted by adelly (Member # 14574) on :
Mubarak made speech by phone. He said he and his family dont have any money outside egypt.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
It was the army and sooner or later there will be a face off between the people and the army. The army leadership is just as corrupt and as backward as the government was. They have to be cleaned out.
Posted by vwwvv (Member # 18359) on :
Former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on Sunday issued his first public remarks since his recent ouster, decrying corruption accusations against him.
In a brief audio message aired on Al-Arabiya television, Mubarak said the Egyptian government's probe into his finances is aimed at tarnishing his reputation and undermining his "history."
"I cannot keep silent facing this continued falsified campaign and the continued attempt to undermine my reputation and the reputation of my family," he said.
Mubarak, in the taped message, said he has agreed to allow the public prosecutor to contact governments around the world "to take all the proper legal steps to reveal" whether he and his family own any properties or real estate outside of Egypt. He also claimed he has no bank accounts abroad.
The former president said he, his wife and sons will account for everything they own, and that his sons will be able to show that anything they own, whether in Egypt or beyond, was not obtained through political influence or illegal means.
"I will reserve my legal right to sue anybody who attacked me or tried to undermine my reputation," he added.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: It was the army and sooner or later there will be a face off between the people and the army. The army leadership is just as corrupt and as backward as the government was. They have to be cleaned out.
I agree, and it is inevitable that the old guard is purged. Unlike the police/amn-al-dawla I don't despise the Army in general. Hopefully the younger higher ranking officers will help facilitate the inevitable purge. The Army has some good people in it, unlike the police who were literally vile top to bottom.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on Sunday issued his first public remarks since his recent ouster, decrying corruption accusations against him.
In a brief audio message aired on Al-Arabiya television, Mubarak said the Egyptian government's probe into his finances is aimed at tarnishing his reputation and undermining his "history."
"I cannot keep silent facing this continued falsified campaign and the continued attempt to undermine my reputation and the reputation of my family," he said.
Mubarak, in the taped message, said he has agreed to allow the public prosecutor to contact governments around the world "to take all the proper legal steps to reveal" whether he and his family own any properties or real estate outside of Egypt. He also claimed he has no bank accounts abroad.
The former president said he, his wife and sons will account for everything they own, and that his sons will be able to show that anything they own, whether in Egypt or beyond, was not obtained through political influence or illegal means.
"I will reserve my legal right to sue anybody who attacked me or tried to undermine my reputation," he added.
Ahhhhhhhh ..... Hosny is back!!! Honestly I am not so certain that he is still in Egypt!! Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
السماح للمصريين بالخارج بالإدلاء بأصواتهم في الإنتخابات القادمة
قامت اللجنة الوزارية التشريعية بالموافقة على إجراء تعديل في قانون مباشرة الحقوق السياسية ليتم السماح للمصريين بالخارج بالإدلاء بأصواتهم في الانتخابات النيابية والرئاسية القادمة.
وسيناقش مجلس الوزراء التعديلات المقترحة من هذا القانون في اجتماعه المقبل.
Egyptians abroad will be able to vote in the upcoming elections.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Mubarak suffers a heart attack while being questioned on corruption charges. Is this true or another ploy. I'm skeptical because the prosecutor stated he wasn't even questioned.
Anonymous sources told Ahram Online that Suzanne Thabet, the wife of Egypt’s ousted president Mubarak, is being questioned now inside a government building.
Mubarak’s wife faces accusations of profiteering, specifically, with regard to secret accounts linked to the Alexandria Library as well as siphoning money from the yearly Reading for All Festival.
The probes also include alleged gold funds that were supposed to be delivered by the ex-minister of information, Anas El-Fiqi to Mrs Mubarak.
Ahram Online has also learnt that ex-minister of health, Hatem El-Gabaly will be summoned on accusations of profiteering. Both the ex-minister of culture, Farouk Hosni and ex-minister of finance, Youssef Boutros Ghali, will also be summoned on accusations of administrative corruption while they were in office.
*It would truly be something - if Hosni, Suzanne, Gamal and Alaa were all detained in Tora. Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
A friend and I were wondering earlier what sort of funeral Mubarak would get if he died in the next few months given that there are still a lot of Egyptians who believe he didn't know what was going on and was manipulated by wife and sons and ministers reporting to him?
Do you think he would get some kind of state funeral and if so how much pomp and ceremony, and if not, a private funeral somewhere?
Posted by Life is a journey (Member # 17655) on :
Apparently mubark and sons start their trial in Cairo on the 19th April ? Do people think it will go ahead, and if so does people think there could be trouble ?
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Re: Hosni's funeral
He will definitely have a sizable funeral and it won't be quiet. The evil bastard that he is, there are many evil bastard supporters that will see to it. Whether of not it will be a State funeral, I don't know, but if he dies with the Junta still in power, it is a possibility.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Is Suzanne next?
على الباغي تدور الدوائر
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Suzanne Mubarak is being questioned
Anonymous sources told Ahram Online that Suzanne Thabet, the wife of Egypt’s ousted president Mubarak, is being questioned now inside a government building.
Mubarak’s wife faces accusations of profiteering, specifically, with regard to secret accounts linked to the Alexandria Library as well as siphoning money from the yearly Reading for All Festival.
The probes also include alleged gold funds that were supposed to be delivered by the ex-minister of information, Anas El-Fiqi to Mrs Mubarak.
Ahram Online has also learnt that ex-minister of health, Hatem El-Gabaly will be summoned on accusations of profiteering. Both the ex-minister of culture, Farouk Hosni and ex-minister of finance, Youssef Boutros Ghali, will also be summoned on accusations of administrative corruption while they were in office.
*It would truly be something - if Hosni, Suzanne, Gamal and Alaa were all detained in Tora.
I wrote a huge research paper in college on the Alexandra library's million e-book launch.
That b*tch turned my well-received term paper into a joke. Evil cow!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt's Sharaf names new governors
The Egyptian Gazette Online Thursday, April 14, 2011 03:33:04 PM
CAIRO – Egyptian Prime Minister Essam Sharaf appointed new governors on Thursday, responding to the calls from protesters to reshuffle the governors, as they are no longer suitable in the post-revolutionary era, the local media reported.
The acting Prime Minister named Abdel-Qawi Khalifa for Cairo, Ali Abdel-Rahman for Giza, Essam Salem for Alexandria, Mohamed Abdel-Moneim for Suez, Ibrahim Hammed for Assiut, Emad Shehata for Qena, Mohamed Abdel-Qader for Sharqiya and Samir Salam for el-Minya. Sharaf also appointed Ashraf Helal for Menoufiya, Khaled Fouda for Luxor, Ali Mohamed for Damietta, Ahmed Hussein Moustafa for Ismailiya, Ahmed Abdullah for Port Said, Mohsen Hefzi for Daqahliya, Mohamed Hindi for Behaira and Taha Mohamed el-Sayyed for Mersa Matrouh. The Prime Minister has retained Moustafa el-Sayyed for Aswan, Mohamed Abdel-Fadil Shousha for South Sinai, el-Sayyed Abdel-Wahab for Noth Sinai, Gamal Imbabi for the New Valley, Magdi Qobaisi for the Red Sea, Waddah Mohamed for Sohag and Ahmed Zaki Abdeen for Kafr el-Sheikh. Sharaf has also renamed some of the governorates.
Witchhunting - now all new in Egypt! Because sure it was witches who were to blame for the drought, plague, and what not.
I find it disgusting that you let someone rule you for 30 years, do in general a fine job for his era and environment, then start accusing him, post-factum, of exactly same thing that the rest of country was also doing and tolerating in unison... I think wise people would let emotions cool before they start assessing someone. And democratic people would take part of blame, because you saw it and you tolerated it. You did not give appropriate guidance.
Hate it when people become like dogs - all licky-licky until they are alone and feel dominated, then all snarly the moment the master falls and a group of you gathers, so he can be safely devoured.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Nevermind, change your name to nomind. That would suit you well.
Mubarak and his family are accused of crimes that are being investigated. Should they be found guilty, the people will expect them to be treated like any other criminal and that is being generous. Because their crimes was against millions of people and deserve far worst penalty than the criminal justice is allowed to give them.
What they did was to infect the society with so much corruption that it became impossible to *live* without facing some sort of corruption. Then it became necessary, of the poor struggling Egyptian, to be corrupt in order to survive.
Anyone who tried to stand in the way of corruption was persecuted. Anyone who even wrote about corruption was persecuted. People were jailed, tortured, disappeared, slandered and force into exile.
The dogs (and I like dogs) are those who are too obedient and remain attached to their masters, refusing to be free. Barking to protect them. Demanding the return of their masters or seek new ones to enslave them.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
They're reading the women prison and increasing security in preparation for Susan Mubarak. They start interviewing her next week.
قال المستشار محمد عبد العزيز الجندى، وزير العدل المصرى،أن استجواب سوزان مبارك سيكون الأسبوع المقبل فى الإتهامات الموجهة لها فى أكثر من قضية.
أكد وزير العدل المصري أن استجواب السيدة سوزان ثابت، زوجة الرئيس المصري السابق حسني مبارك ستبدأ الأسبوع المقبل، وذلك على خلفية اتهامات لها بالكسب غير المشروع.
وكانت مسألة التحقيق مع سوزان مبارك قد تعرضت لكثير من الإشاعات والتقارير المتضاربة، فقد سبق أن أفادت تقارير بأن التحقيق معها بدأ في المستشفى في اليوم ذاته الذي أدخل فيه زوجها إلى مستشفى شرم الشيخ الدولي.
ثم قيل إن التحقيق معها بدأ في مقر إقامتها، ومع ولديها علاء وجمال، غير أن أياً من تلك التقارير لم تثبت صحتها، رغم أن بعض تلك التقارير ذكرت أن التحقيق مع سوزان مبارك بدأ الأربعاء الماضي في "مقر جهة سيادية عليا"، وتناول التحقيق "تهماً تتعلق بالفساد المالي بشأن مكتبة الاسكندرية، إضافة إلى التحقيق في أمور تتعلق بمهرجان القراءة للجميع."
ونقل أحد الموقع أنه لم يحدد ما إذا كانت السيدة الأولى السابقة ستلحق بنجليها إلى أحد السجون المصرية، رغم أن مصدراً بمديرية أمن القليوبية، أفاد بأن هناك "تعزيزات أمنية مشددة داخل وخارج سجن 'القناطر الخيرية' للنساء، استعداداً لصدور قرار بحبس سوزان مبارك، وأخريات من السيدات اللاتي تولين مناصب في عهد النظام السابق، في قضايا فساد وتربح، ومنهن من شاركت في موقعة الجمل."
على أن المصدر، الذي رفض الكشف عن اسمه، أكد لموقع بوابة الأهرام أن "السجن لم يتلق أي قرار بوصول زوجه مبارك إليه"، مشيراً إلى تلقي تعليمات بالاستعداد "لأي قرار مفاجئ قد يصدره النائب العام، خاصة أن التحقيق يجري معها الآن"، بحسب موقع "أخبار مصر."
غير أن وزير العدل المصري، المستشار محمد عبدالعزيز الجندي، نفى حينها مثول سوزان مبارك، للتحقيق أمام النيابة العامة.
لكنه أكد أن "مبارك وأفراد أسرته جميعا سوف يخضعون للتحقيق أمام جهاز الكسب غير المشروع خلال الأيام القليلة القادمة، وأن القانون يطبق على الجميع في البلاد على قدم المساواة"، وفقاً لما نقله موقع أخبار مصر التابع للتلفزيون المصري.
كذلك نفى المتحدث باسم الادعاء العام المصري، تلك التقارير وقال "إن الشائعات المتناقلة حول التحقيق مع سوزان مبارك غير صحيحة، وقد أوضحنا أن المعلومات التي يجب الوثوق بها هي تلك الصادرة عن مصادرنا فقط."
وأضاف في تصريح لـ CNN أن على وسائل الإعلام أن تتجنب المعلومات الخاطئة التي قد تؤدي إلى تضليل الرأي العام.
وكان النائب المصري العام، المستشار عبدالمجيد محمود، قد أصدر في وقت سابق الأربعاء قراراً بحبس مبارك ونجليه علاء وجمال لمدة 15 يوماً على ذمة التحقيقات التي تجرى معهم بمعرفة النيابة.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Not guilty until proven everything else is just that - bullsh#t. This is my opinion on every single Mubarak which is being accused and all the other people who might participated in corruption and will be prosecuted. Right now the Egyptians are going after the big fish without realizing it's the WHOLE nation which's into that but on different levels. Or perhaps they think if they can put blame on few individuals than it will take away from their own guilt.
It still amazes me that people here in general think that once these people are prosecuted the corruption will stop. Again it's in the blood of the Egyptians to offer and take bribes. Stop moaning and learn to live with this fact. That's how the um el donya rules - and IT WON'T CHANGE. Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
In this case they're guilty until proven guilty. Everyone knows the sun rises from the east, we do not need proof that it does but it is always interesting to read scientific explanation of how it works.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Ahhh is this how democracy will work from now on Egypt??? Well good luck then with making Egypt a better place - not.
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Well, I have been informed that under the Egyptian legal system there is no presumption of innocence, the onus is on the accused to prove they are innocent. I have listened to people in this country complaining about corruption ever since I came here. President, police, civil servants blah blah Personally I don't see why it is assumed that corruption begins at the top. Even on this board I've regularly seen established expats giving advice and suggesting a little baksheesh will oil the wheels and so on. Not one single person in this country has never given a few pounds to jump a queue in a government office, police station, and chasing the Mubarak family and the rest for corruption is at best amusing [to me at least] and at worst, hypocritical. The lawyers, prosecutors, judges involved will almost inevitably be in their posts through corrupt means. I am not defending Mubarak, any more than I would defend any of you if I saw you slipping someone LE20 in the Mogamma. My opinion of HM [don't know a lot about him] is that he was around far too long [even if he'd been a great president] and well, he could have been a lot worse.All politicians are power mad jerks in my opinion, and over the past 30 years, there have been a few at best as bad, and some a lot worse than this regime. The issue of human rights abuses toward his own people, is unforgiveable. it will be scary if this aspect is not addressed in favour of following the money.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Mo, on the one hand I agree with you about the corruption and it's right through from top to bottom BUT if it hadn't been FROM the top then the bottom wouldn't HAVE to be.
About slipping backsheesh to get things done, there are MANY instances where you can't get what you SHOULD or are entitled to without it and that's how it's been for God knows how long, and there WAS nothing you could do about it.
I have a friend with an established business and an impecable record. For good reasons new rules were put to those same businesses and my friends company passed all requirements without problem BUT some box had to be ticked by the governor annually and last year he must have been getting a little skint, so he wouldn't tick the box. Not to do with safety or anything but LE250,000 got it ticked when there was NO good reason to not tick the box in the first place. So there was really no choice, pay up or no tick for NO reason but the governors own. In a proper society there would have been somewhere to go and report this, there wasn't.
As for babaMu, it was up to HIM to stop this sort of thing AT the top, not encourage it so it HAS to filter down to the little man. My husband was watching something the other day that was saying before babaMu such and such % were under the breadline so to speak, now after and during his regime the % got much MUCH higher and the rich-poor divide got wider. He did nothing for his PEOPLE and all for his OWN, and that is why they must do the top FIRST.
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
A friend told me yesterday she read that Mubarak could be hanged for his crimes...
Posted by Mo Ning Min E (Member # 681) on :
Don't you secretly suspect though, that concentrating on $$$$$ will be a smokescreen to enable the next [if there is one?] government to maintain the ability to maintain an internal security system just like the last one? I still have this irrational belief that while those in power [like your example] can easily excercise their greed, this system is fed from below. Why on earth are the police suddenly screaming for more money? Because they fear that the bribes won't be available. Next, the 'traffic office' staff will pull out for the same reason. I have stood in line in one of those places wanting to scream "Don't pay!!! wait all day! they will ask for a pay rise eventually! Or stop complaining about corrupt politicians." Mubarak didn't invent graft in this place.
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
No, in democracy it is what YOU make of it, not what someone makes FOR you.
And you cannot judge what happened 30 years ago, from today's position of habits and knowledge! 300 years ago perhaps all our forefathers were murderers by today's standards. Though in their times it may have been the way to do things. Egypt recently was a kingdom and all presidents up till now have mimicked either kings or then generals (because this is what they were). There are no human rights I think in wars and military courts are also pretty grim places. You follow orders or you...
You have to take that in account when assessing those persons.
Torturing by services is another thing but again - historically there was torturing, until people became enlightened enough to start thinking it is wrong, perhaps.
You cannot ask a person be more enlightened than he can realistically be in his time and in his country. It is even dangerous for a leader, I think, to be too enlightened, too much "ahead", because then the simple folks will not "get" him. You have to be in tune, and in tune with the most violent kind, who prefer to speak with hands. Should Egypt not get a "softy" president next, THEN what will happen, for example?
Anyway, who cares, they are all sniffing blood already so...
Posted by nevermind (Member # 6674) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: The dogs (and I like dogs) are those who are too obedient and remain attached to their masters, refusing to be free. Barking to protect them. Demanding the return of their masters or seek new ones to enslave them.
I like cats. Always fully independent, always of own mind .
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Re: Egyptian Legal System
Hosni, his sons, and former regime for that matter are detained under the Emergency Law that they enacted. Under the Emergency law suspects irrespective of innocence or evidence may be detained indefinitely. Initially 15 days and then subsequent 15-day periods that are indefinitly renewed. This is authorized by a.) public prosecutor b.) state security prosecutor.
This is the system that Hosni Mubarak put in place. It's truly ironic but certainly poetic justice. So the idiots here who cry at the unfairness or injustice - again it's the system that Hosni Mubarak put in place. Now if the Emergency Law is lifted, all allegations, cases and ensuing prosecutions would be constitutional. This wasn't the case the past 30 years and fittingly it's not the case with the Mubaraks' prosecution.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Re: Egyptian Legal System
Hosni, his sons, and former regime for that matter are detained under the Emergency Law that they enacted. Under the Emergency law suspects irrespective of innocence or evidence may be detained indefinitely. Initially 15 days and then subsequent 15-day periods that are indefinitly renewed. This is authorized by a.) public prosecutor b.) state security prosecutor.
This is the system that Hosni Mubarak put in place. It's truly ironic but certainly poetic justice. So the idiots here who cry at the unfairness or injustice - again it's the system that Hosni Mubarak put in place. Now if the Emergency Law is lifted, all allegations, cases and ensuing prosecutions would be constitutional. This wasn't the case the past 30 years and fittingly it's not the case with the Mubaraks' prosecution.
Hung by his own noose in effect, sweet.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Well, I have been informed that under the Egyptian legal system there is no presumption of innocence, the onus is on the accused to prove they are innocent.
That is absolutely false. There is exception though. Min Ayna Laka Hatha (from where did you get that). When it comes to money and suspicion of corruption a prosecutor can ask a person or company to prove that the money they have was gained legally. The onus is on the accused to provide proof.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
RE: "I have been informed that under the Egyptian legal system there is no presumption of innocence, the onus is on the accused to prove they are innocent."
I think whoever told her that is very ignorant. But it's also wrong to take anyone's word on such a serious matter. The saying “Ignorance is not an excuse” also applies here. The fact is suspects are presumed innocent until proven guilty under Egyptian judiciary.
”Egypt's laws require that a detained person be brought before a magistrate and officially charged within forty-eight hours or released. An accused is entitled to post bail and had the right to be defended by legal counsel.”
Unfortunately Hosni Mubarak has undermined Egyptian's Judiciary over the past thirty years. His regime weakened Judges and the Courts and empowered the Police and Prosecutors under the Emergency law that blatantly circumvents Egyptian Judiciary.
Egyptian Judicial Law → You are innocent until proven guilty, and you are to be released within 48hrs after your arrest if there is not enough evidence against you e.g enough to formal charges. You will see a judgee and you are entitled to post Bail.
Hosni Mubarak's Emergency Law → You are guilty and can be held indefinitely, even without a shred of evidence. You won't see a judge, you can't post bail. Your relatives don't have the right to visit you. You can't have a lawyer.
There is some serious-serious-serious ignorance that prevails around here. Ignorance is not an excuse.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
الجريدة - كشف مصدر مطلع، أن حكومة الدكتور عصام شرف تدرس حالياً، إلغاء قانون التوقيت الصيفي، وذلك لما يسببه من حالة من الارتباك في حياة المواطنين المصريين، إضافة إلى وجود بعض التحذيرات من المخاطر الصحية من تغيير الساعة على صحة الإنسان، ويبدأ العمل بالتوقيت الصيفي نهاية شهر أبريل، وينتهي في الخميس الأخير من سبتمبر في كل عام.
وفي تصريحات خاصة لـ”المصري اليوم” أضاف المصدر، أن في العام الماضي حدثت حالات من الارتباك للمواطنين، نظراً لتغيير الساعة أكثر من مرة مع حلول شهر رمضان المبارك وتغييرها بعد انتهائه والعودة للعمل بها مرة أخرى.
يذكر أن القانون رقم 141 لسنة 1988 صدر في شأن تقرير نظام التوقيت الصيفي، معدلاً بالقانون رقم 14 سنة 1995 ، حيث تقضي المادة الأولى منه بأن التوقيت الصيفي يبدأ من يوم الجمعة الأخيرة من شهر أبريل حتى نهاية يوم الخميس الأخير من شهر سبتمبر بحيث تكون الساعة القانونية هي الساعة بحسب التوقيت المتبع مقدمة بمقدار ستين دقيقة.
بينما تقضي المادة الثانية من القانون رقم 141 لسنة 1988 المشار إليه، باستثناء شهر رمضان المعظم من كل عام من نظام التوقيت الصيفي المنصوص عليه في المادة الأولى سالفة الذكر.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by this: الجريدة - كشف مصدر مطلع، أن حكومة الدكتور عصام شرف تدرس حالياً، إلغاء قانون التوقيت الصيفي، وذلك لما يسببه من حالة من الارتباك في حياة المواطنين المصريين، إضافة إلى وجود بعض التحذيرات من المخاطر الصحية من تغيير الساعة على صحة الإنسان، ويبدأ العمل بالتوقيت الصيفي نهاية شهر أبريل، وينتهي في الخميس الأخير من سبتمبر في كل عام.
وفي تصريحات خاصة لـ”المصري اليوم” أضاف المصدر، أن في العام الماضي حدثت حالات من الارتباك للمواطنين، نظراً لتغيير الساعة أكثر من مرة مع حلول شهر رمضان المبارك وتغييرها بعد انتهائه والعودة للعمل بها مرة أخرى.
يذكر أن القانون رقم 141 لسنة 1988 صدر في شأن تقرير نظام التوقيت الصيفي، معدلاً بالقانون رقم 14 سنة 1995 ، حيث تقضي المادة الأولى منه بأن التوقيت الصيفي يبدأ من يوم الجمعة الأخيرة من شهر أبريل حتى نهاية يوم الخميس الأخير من شهر سبتمبر بحيث تكون الساعة القانونية هي الساعة بحسب التوقيت المتبع مقدمة بمقدار ستين دقيقة.
بينما تقضي المادة الثانية من القانون رقم 141 لسنة 1988 المشار إليه، باستثناء شهر رمضان المعظم من كل عام من نظام التوقيت الصيفي المنصوص عليه في المادة الأولى سالفة الذكر.
Good move, this will end the ridiculous disproportionate day hours. Especially during the summer months when worshipers only have 6 or so hours between Isha and Fajr prayers. That's 3'thaaab there. There is nothing better than the natural divide of daylight and nighttime.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
In the UK they keep muttering about 'double summer time' - that would be bizarre if the UK was on the same time as Egypt!
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
كشفت صحيفة "الديلي تليجراف" البريطانية النقاب عن السبب وراء محاكمة الرئيس السابق حسني مبارك وعائلته، رغم تعهد الجيش بعدم ملاحقته قضائيا، وهو أن مبارك خرق الاتفاق المبرم مع الجيش عندما تنحي في 11 فبراير الماضي، بالبقاء بعيدا عن السياسية، إلا أنه بخطابه الأخير الذي بثته فضائية العربية، واكتشاف مؤامرة لتحريض البلطجية ضد المتظاهرين ومحاولة الوقيعة بين الجيش والشعب في تظاهرة 8 إبريل كسر الاتفاق، الأمر الذي دفع النائب العام لتوجيه الاتهامات لمبارك.
ونقلت الصحيفة عن بعض الخبراء قولهم : إن" السبب وراء توجيه المدعي العام المصري للاتهامات لمبارك وعائلته هو أنهم كسروا الصفقة السرية المبرمة مع الجيش حاكم مصر الجديدة، فقد وافق مبارك عندما ترك منصبه على البقاء بعيدا عن السياسة والتقاعد الهادئ في فيلته بشرم الشيخ".
وأضافت الصحيفة:" لكن بدلا من ذلك، قام أبناء مبارك بتحريض البلطجية مرة أخرى ضد المتظاهرين، وختم الرئيس السابق مصيره بإصدار تسجيل فيديو بث على فضائية العربية يصر فيه على أنه بريء تماما من ارتكاب أي مخالفات، كما كانت لهجته لهجة تبرير وتحد، وهدد بمقاضاة متهميه، وهذا التسجيل دفع المصريين للنزول مرة أخرى لميدان التحرير للمطالبة بمحاكمة مبارك".
تابعت الصحيفة أن هذا النزول دفع المجلس الأعلى للقوات المسلحة للإعلان عن حريصه على تجنب المزيد من الاضطرابات وأنه سوف يتم استجواب مبارك.
وقال الدكتور عماد جاد، الخبير السياسي في مركز الأهرام للدراسات السياسية والاستراتيجية:" عندما تنحى مبارك قدم المجلس العسكري الأعلى ضمانات بأنهم سوف يقومون بحمايته ولأسرته وعدم السماح بالتحقيق معه إذا بقي بعيدا عن السياسة.. إلا أن جمال خالف هذا الفهم، وبدأ التدخل مرة أخرى، وكان يخطط لثورة مضادة ومحاولة التسبب في الفوضى".
ويضيف جاد :أن" جمال وراء معظم القرارات الكارثية التي سارعت في سقوط والده، فمنذ 25 يناير وهو يقوم بالخطأ تلو آخر". ويتوقع المصريون أنه آن الأوان للكشف عن أكثر قضايا الفساد خطورة، ولا أحد يعرف بالضبط كم من الأموال غير المشروعة سرقها مبارك وأولاده، ولكن المحققون يجمعون المزيد من المعلومات عن ثروة العائلة.
وتوضح الصحيفة أن أسرة مبارك سعت للحفاظ على عرشها بتكوين دولة بوليسية سجنت وعذبت الآلاف ظلما، وهذه الانتهاكات محل تحقيق حاليا، والسؤال الأساسي هل لعبت الأسرة دورا في تفجيرات هزت البلاد مثل تفجير كنيسة القديسين في يناير والتي خلفت عشرات القتلى. ويعتقد على نطاق واسع على أن نظام مبارك يحاولون إثارة الفتنة بين المسيحيين والمسلمين إتباعا لنظرية "فرق تسد".
وبحسب الصحيفة فإن مستقبل الأسرة حاليا يبدو كئيبا، وسوف يمثل الأخوان أمام محكمة في القاهرة، وفي نهاية المطاف قد ينضم والدهما إلى قفص الاتهام معهما إذا استرد صحته، وقد رفع الآلاف شعارات ضده وهو يرقد في مستشفى في شرم الشيخ، ويطالبون بتحويله لمستشفى عسكري، ومن المرجح أن يموت مبارك في المستشفى العسكري قبل أن تدركه العدالة، وقد تستغرق المحاكمة بضع سنوات. المصدر : الوفد
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt's Former Ruling Party Dissolved — But Not Defunct
By MATT BRADLEY
CAIRO—A high-level Egyptian court has ordered the dissolution of Egypt's former ruling National Democratic Party (NDP), fulfilling a central demand of the protest movement that ousted the country's former president in February.
But reports of the NDP's death may be greatly exaggerated. Before the verdict, the party's residual leadership was already restyling itself for a comeback ahead of parliamentary elections scheduled for September, complete with a new name and new leadership....
Omar Suleiman questioned in Egyptian probe into deadly violence used against protesters by Hosni Mubarak's regime.
Omar Suleiman, the former Egyptian vice-president, has been questioned in connection with violence against protesters during the uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, the president, the general prosecutor's office has said.
Suleiman, the country's long-time chief of intelligence, was questioned about "information held by the intelligence services on the events of the January 25 revolution," the prosecutor's office said on Tuesday.
He was asked about "the killing of protesters during peaceful [anti-regime] protests and over the wealth of the former president and his family," it said.
Mubarak, who had ruled Egypt since 1981, named Suleiman his first ever vice-president on January 29 in a bid to placate the growing protest movement.
Nationwide protests that erupted on January 25 and eventually toppled Mubarak's regime on February 11.
Rawya Rageh, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Cairo, said: "It actually is not clear if Mr Omar Suleiman is under house arrest or not.
"We do know for a fact that he's not being detained pending those investigations, we know that he was summoned on Monday to be questioned over information he would have been privy to in his capacity as intelligence chief of the country.
"We know that there has been no official announcement banning him from travel like the other members of the inner circle of president Mubarak."
Revised death toll
A government fact-finding mission announced on Tuesday that at least 846 Egyptians died in the nearly three-week-long popular uprising.
In their report, the panel of judges described police forces shooting protesters in the head and chest with live ammunition and presented a death toll more than twice that of previous official estimates.
"The fatal shots were due to firing bullets at the head and the chest," the report read, adding that "a huge number of eye injures," filled hospitals, and hundreds lost their sight.
Earlier official estimates put out by a Mubarak associate had put the toll from the days of demonstrations, in which protesters battled heavily armed legions of riot police, at 365, but local groups had put the figure much higher.
The mission held Mubarak ultimately responsible for the killing of the protesters since Habib el-Adly, his interior minister, had issued the orders to open fire.
Omar Marwan, the head of the commission, said the report is based on the accounts of 17,058 officials and eyewitnesses, along with 800 video clips and pictures obtained from individuals who were present at the protests.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Commission: Mubarak complicit in shootings
Cairo (CNN) -- Ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was complicit in shootings of anti-regime protesters during a period of upheaval in the country, a member of an official fact-checking commission said Tuesday.
"Whether the president gave the official order or remained silent knowing the shooting of protesters would take place, he is responsible for the 846 protesters who died during the January 25 revolution, especially since the killing started from Day One," said Judge Omar Marawan, the commission's secretary-general.
Marawan held a press conference after the release of the commission's report, which said 846 civilians and 26 policemen were killed during 18 days of protests that led to Mubarak's resignation on February 11.
The report focused on the killing and injury of demonstrators during the unrest in an effort to disperse them; what it said was the intentional opening of prisons, leaving a security vacuum; and the government's manipulation of the media. It also issued recommendations as the country moves forward.
The commission watched videos that confirmed several prisons were opened by security forces, according to the report. Members also concluded that police used extreme force against protesters and fired shots at people who were trying to film the unrest from balconies and windows. In addition, the report accused police of intentionally running over protesters with vehicles.
The commission's role was to compile information about the events and hand over their findings to the general prosecutor.
Prosecutors have questioned Omar Suleiman, Egypt's former vice president and intelligence chief, the general prosecutor's office confirmed Tuesday, about events that took place during his brief period as vice president.
quote:Originally posted by this: official fact-checking commission
my @SS!!!!!
If Mubarak wanted to take protesters out he would have pulled a Gaddafi on his own people but that's not him. He loves his country, he fought for this country, he would have died for his country just like a martyr.
How do they come up with the figure of 846 dead people I wonder - people continue to talk and show pictures of the 25 martyrs which died fighting for 'freedom and democracy' during the uprising. Now what happened to the other 821 Egyptians? They weren't brave enough? Where are their pictures and stories? What does it take to die a f#cking martyr death in Egypt?
Honestly I have no idea of how they came up with 846 casualties. Anyone???????
It's a bloody shame that Mubarak doesn't receive more support from inside and also outside of the country. But that's how it is. People will always be nice to you as long as they can benefit from you. Once you are going downhill they will turn their backs on you. Too many Egyptians profited from Mubarak during his 30 years of reign, now everbody is busy to cover their own @sses, keep their mouths shut, try to secure much of their wealth as possible and pray to Allah that they won't be caught and prosecuted too.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Suleiman: Mubarak did not order killing of protesters
by Ahmed Shalaby Tue, 19/04/2011 - 19:05
The public prosecutor heared statements on Monday evening from Egypt's former head of intelligence, Omar Suleiman, regarding the information collected by the General Intelligence Service on the events of the 25 January revolution, the killing of protesters and the wealth of the Mubarak family.
According to judicial sources, Suleiman was summoned by the prosecution after ousted President Hosni Mubarak told investigators that he received information from the head of intelligence that saboteurs and Muslim Brotherhood members were preparing to join the protesters in order to create a state of lawlessness.
During the five-hour-long questioning, Suleiman said the General Intelligence Service had received information that the protests were being led by Brotherhood members. Suleiman said the information was sent to the president in confidential reports.
Suleiman went on to say that the State Security apparatus had the same information. When asked by the prosecution where he received this information, how the former president and Interior Ministry dealt with the protesters and whether or not they had issued orders to kill the protesters, Suleiman said that meetings were being held continuously at the presidential residence in light of the protests, some of which he had attended, but that he never heard the former president issuing orders to kill the protesters.
Suleiman claimed the former president ordered the former Interior Minister Habib al-Adly to show restraint and not to attack the protesters, and that with the escalation of events he instructed him to protect public property and to let the armed forces deal with the protesters.
Suleiman then added that there was information he could not mention in the investigations, and that this information could have serious implications if publicized.
Regarding the Mubarak family’s wealth, Suleiman did not mention any specific information, other than his claim that the former president had always instructed his sons not to contact any ministers or to request any illegal benefits.
When I penned my column ‘Egypt’s youth uprising has been hijacked’ in early February, I experienced a deep sense of foreboding. I didn’t want to dampen everyone’s optimism because, of course, I want the best for the people of Egypt, a great Arab nation. I knew I was bucking the trend, but I refused to see the situation through rose-tinted spectacles. Two months on, everything I dreaded is, sadly, unfolding. As I predicted, the country is still beset by protests, strikes, sit-ins and lawlessness.
According to the Associated Press, “Crime has soared by 200 per cent since Hosni Mubarak’s ouster from the presidency” with “murder, violent theft and kidnapping leading the surge”.
The cancellation of an African Champions League football match between the Egyptian club Zamalek and Tunisia’s Africain, because Egyptian fans attacked players and officials on the pitch, was shameful.
People empowerment is one thing, but ultimately law and order must prevail. Equally disturbing is the ravaged economy.
Foreign currency reserves are at their lowest since 2007 and growth projections have been downgraded. Tourism is almost non-existent. Hotels are empty. Adding to Egypt’s economic woes is the mass influx of Egyptian workers escaping Libya.
I’m most worried about the political front. Almost as soon as Mubarak resigned, prominent figures in the youth movement faded away. It is also worrying that the young protesters haven’t appointed a leader.
When the former IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei tried to vote during last month’s constitutional referendum he was booed and shoved by opponents who claimed he was an agent for the US. I’m beginning to wonder whether some of the revolution’s instigators were being paid by foreign powers all along.
It’s no secret that Washington’s relationship with Mubarak had cooled and that the 2005 presidential contender Ayman Nour was cozy with the White House.
Likewise, Saad Eddin Ibrahim, an Egyptian pro-democracy activist and a critic of Mubarak, has been financed by American NGOs. The fact is there are no credible applicants for the top job and not enough time for new ones to emerge.
The Muslim Brotherhood have announced that they won’t propose a candidate this time around but its leadership is waiting patiently in the wings, cooking up a plan to grab the attention of the electorate in four years’ time. That doesn’t mean that they won’t support an ‘independent’ candidate as their puppet in the meantime.
The Brotherhood are currently trying to model their soon-to-be-formed political party along the lines of Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development (AK) Party, which was founded on moderate Islamic principles. Don’t be fooled by this makeover.
This group, the parent of Hamas with offshoots throughout the Middle East and North Africa, plan to turn Egypt into an Islamic state run according to their own perception of the Sharia (Islamic Law). In a country with substantial Coptic and secular minorities, that would be a recipe for violent dissent.
President Mubarak once warned: “If the Muslim Brotherhood succeeded in taking over the country, the world would isolate them, as they have done Hamas... Many people will take their money and leave the country. Investments will stop. Unemployment will grow.”
Say what you will about the former leader, on this point he was right. Worst of all, the Muslim Brotherhood have informal ties to the Iranian regime, primarily through its strong links with Hamas.
The group welcomed Iran’s Islamic revolution and in 2008 its former Supreme Guide Mohamed Mahdi Akef told an Iranian news agency that “the Muslim Brotherhood support the ideas and thoughts of the founder of the Islamic Republic”.
It is, therefore, not illogical to assume that, should the Brotherhood assume power, they could become a conduit for Iranian influence in the heart of the Arab world.
That would be a coup for Tehran which has already spread its tentacles to Lebanon, Syria and Yemen – and is trying to infiltrate Kuwait and Bahrain. Last week, a court in Kuwait City sentenced Iranian spies to death and expelled Iranian diplomats for their involvement in a spy ring.
Egyptian-Iranian relations have already warmed following the passage of Iranian warships through the Suez Canal and a meeting between the Egyptian interim Foreign Minister, Nabil al-Arabi, and Mugtabi Amani, a top Iranian official.
“Cairo is ready to re-establish diplomatic ties with Tehran after a break of more than 30 years,” al-Arabi said.
An appointed caretaker government has no mandate to take such important decisions on policy. Prime Minister Essam Sharaf and his Cabinet are supposed to limit themselves to the day-to-day running of the country until elections have been held.
Sharaf should be focusing on the more pressing needs of the Egyptian people. It was a bad omen when, last month, he spoke on a podium in Tahrir Square with leading Muslim Brotherhood figure Mohamed al-Beltagui at his side.
Egyptians must remain alert to destructive external forces which are gaining influence in Egypt with the help of proxies.
If Egypt, the Mother of the Arab World, is weakened by division and infighting, it will be like a knife thrust into the heart of every Arab, as well as a gift to the strategic ambitions of Washington, Tel Aviv and Tehran.
The writing’s on the wall. I pray that the Egyptian people will see it before it’s too late.
“Did the Egyptian revolution erupt to take Egyptian women a step backward?”
The Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights (ECWR) condemned the recent reshuffling and appointment of new governors in Egypt that excluded women, describing it as “disappointing and contradictory to the principles of citizenship, justice and equality.”
“The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights is worried that this exclusion may be intentional with the pretext that now is not the convenient time to talk about women’s rights,” the statement read.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: “The Egyptian Center for Women's Rights is worried that this exclusion may be intentional with the pretext that now is not the convenient time to talk about women’s rights,” the statement read.
And it's not - according to Egyptian men. Khalas. Call back the office in let's say 100 years.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote: Commission: Mubarak complicit in shootings
Maybe his best days are behind him, and maybe imprisonment won't amount to much. But he will feel the deepest despair knowing his two sons are ruined and damned. Now if they get Suzanne too, well that'll be the cherry on top (Hosni's demise).
A most beautiful day. Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by this: official fact-checking commission
my @SS!!!!!
If Mubarak wanted to take protesters out he would have pulled a Gaddafi on his own people but that's not him. He loves his country, he fought for this country, he would have died for his country just like a martyr.
How do they come up with the figure of 846 dead people I wonder - people continue to talk and show pictures of the 25 martyrs which died fighting for 'freedom and democracy' during the uprising. Now what happened to the other 821 Egyptians? They weren't brave enough? Where are their pictures and stories? What does it take to die a f#cking martyr death in Egypt?
Honestly I have no idea of how they came up with 846 casualties. Anyone???????
It's a bloody shame that Mubarak doesn't receive more support from inside and also outside of the country. But that's how it is. People will always be nice to you as long as they can benefit from you. Once you are going downhill they will turn their backs on you. Too many Egyptians profited from Mubarak during his 30 years of reign, now everbody is busy to cover their own @sses, keep their mouths shut, try to secure much of their wealth as possible and pray to Allah that they won't be caught and prosecuted too.
Well the video I posted above is of a Chief Justice- a member of the fact finding commission. After listening to him detailing how they went on gathering evidence and giving facts about what happened in various stages of the revolution. I'm convinced some people will fry. They were so good and so impartial and soooooooo detailed. I believe Mubarak is toast. The crimes that were committed and the planning that was involved boggles the mind.
On example that surprised is that members of the state security met with representatives of the three mobile service provides to plan for cutting service if need be. They met on January 23rd! I would love to know if the meeting was unprecedented or if this was done before every protest. The attacks on February 02,2011 on Tahrir square was likely planned days in advance. Mubarak supporters came in groups from different areas and one group did not know the other but they all gathered empty bottles and filled sacks with rocks before heading to the square. The commission established who incited each group to attack the protesters and those people are connected to each other. They refused to give names but I bet Murtada Mansour is one of them and he's likely to fry for this one. People died.
They got the number of dead and wounded from hospital records. They believed that the number is much higher but refused to include any dead person who was not documented by hospitals,army or any reliable organization. I'm telling you, they were so accurate and conscientious this report by itself could start a revolution.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
نشرت صحيفة الفجر تحقيقا بعنوان "المهمة المستحيلة لنقل مبارك من شرم الشيخ" رصد فيه الزميل حاتم أبو النور أسرار ما حدث عصر الاثنين الماضي في مستشفى شرم الشيخ، وفيما يلي نص التحقيق..
في الساعة الثالثة من عصر يوم الاثنين الماضي وصلت إلى شرم الشيخ ثلاث سياسات مغطاة بزجاج فاميه نزل منها خمسة مسئولين، أربعة منهم من مكتب النائب العام والخامس لواء في الجيش وتوجهوا على الفور إلى جناح الرئيس السابق في المستشفى الهرمي.
كانت مهمة هذه المجموعة نقل مبارك من مدينته المفضلة التي اختار النفي فيها إلى المركز الطبي العالمي على طريق الإسماعيلية، لكن ما إن دخلوا عليه حتى أصابته حالة من التشنج العصبي مصحوبة ببكاء وتشبث بالسرير وقال لهم: "انتوا حتحبسوني".. فقد تصور أنهم سيحملونه إلى السجن كما حدث مع ولديه علاء وجمال.
وانتقلت عدوى البكاء إلى زوجته سوزان وصرخت فيهم: "كفاية كفاية أنتوا حتسجنونا".. فلم تجد المجموعة مفرا من أن تتصل بمسئولين أعلى منها في القاهرة وتقرر بعدها أن يبقى مبارك في مكانه حتى يمكن إقناعه بأنه سينتقل من مستشفى مدني إلى مستشفى عسكري.
كانت هناك سيارة إسعاف مجهزة بمعدات العناية الفائقة تقف في انتظار نقله إلى المطار بعد أن رفضت التعليمات الأمنية نقله بطائرة هليكوبتر.
وصل عدد بوكيهات الزهور التي وصلت إليه حتى تلك الساعة 194 بوكيها.. وسمح لأطباء المستشفى بزيارته مدة لا تزيد على 30 ثانية كان خلالها يكتفي بتحية الزوار بهز رأسه. وكانت هناك في الساعة السادسة و18 دقيقة من مساء يوم السبت الماضي طائرتان أقلعتا من مطار ألماظة لنقل متعلقات مبارك وعائلته إلى القاهرة.. ووصلت الطائرتان مساء أمس بالمتعلقات لكن .. دون أن يصل مبارك.
قبل أن يدخل الرجال الخمسة على مبارك كانت حالته الصحية مستقرة واستعاد عافيته من ارتجاف الأذين القلبي وضبط ضغط قلبه، لكن بعد أن دخلوا انقلب الأمر وحدثت انتكاسة صحية تمثلت أعراضها في قصور بوظائف القلب وقصور في وظائف الطرفين السفليين (الرجلين). وامتنع عن الطعام والشراب.
فريقه الطبي الذي يشرف عليه ماهر جاويش لم يجد مفرا من وضع محاليل له يتم حقنها فيتامينات "ب" مركب (بنورابيون) وأوصى بأخذه ثلاث مرات يوميا.
كما أوصوا بمنحه على الفور علاجا دوائيا لضبط الضغط الذي وصل لحظة دخول الرجال الخمسة إلى أدنى مستوياته 100/50 لكن وبعد ربع الساعة تقريبا انضبط الضغط وارتفع إلى المعدل الطبيعي 130/80.
المفاجأة أن التشخيص الطبي لمبارك عقب محاولة نقله اكتشف ثقلا في لسان مبارك وخروج بعض الحروف من فمه غير منضبطة خاصة بعد أحداث عملية نقله فتم استدعاء طبيب ألماني استشاري في الأمراض العصبية وآخر مصري يحمل رتبة لواء في الخدمات الطبية استشاري في الأمراض النفسية والعصبية.
تم الكشف على مبارك من قبل الطبيبين الألماني والمصري فخرجا الاثنان بنفس التشخيص وهو إصابة مبارك anxity neurosis عصاب القلق أو الخوف من المجهول نتيجة تعرضه لموقف عصبي عنيف فأصبح متوجسا وخائفا على الدوام.
الطبيبان أوصيا بضرورة تجدد الوجوه بأخرى غير مألوفة حتى ترتفع معنوياته بجانب العلاج الدوائي اناكس أقراص ويستعيد الأمل مرة أخرى بعد أن وصل إلى أقل معدلاته بعد محاولة نقله من شرم الشيخ.
مصادرنا أكدت أن الأطباء يخشون من حدوث جلطات بسبب الخلل في إنزيمات الكبد نتيجة نقص المناعة، وتم منحه مدرات للبول كعلاج تحفظي خوفا من حدوث ارتشاح جديد على عضلة القلب، لذلك تم منع الصحف المصرية نهائيا من دخول غرفته والاكتفاء ببعض المجلات الأجنبية.
هناك الآن ثلاثة أنواع من الحراسات على مبارك الأولى داخل الجناح وتتولاها حراسته الشخصية بقيادة اللواء مصطفى سليمان، والثانية حراسة الشرطة العسكرية التي تتولى تأمين المستشفى من الداخل، والثالثة حراسة شرطية التي تتولى محيط المستشفى من الخارج.
أول من زاره يوم الاثنين كانت خديجة الجمال بصحبة ابنتها فريدة لكنها غادرت المبنى بعد أقل من 20 دقيقة تاركة ابنتها مع جدها بناء على طلبه، وفي اليوم التالي وصلت هايدي راسخ بسيارة بورش زرقاء بصحبة خادمة فلبينية كانت تحمل في يديها حقيبتين، وبعد خمس دقائق هبطت خديجة الجمال من سيارة جاجور سوداء ومعها خادمة مصرية.
الغريب أن سوزان ثابت لم تكن موجود يوم الثلاثاء وكان بصحبة مبارك خادمة أجنبية ظلت معه طيلة اليوم لكنها غادرت مع هايدي التي تركت الفلبينية لتسهر على خدمة مبارك ليلا.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Hosni is stuck in Hosni Emergency Law Hell. The prosecutor renewed the 15-Day detention. The same renewal his sons got. The same renewal that countless Egyptians received while awaiting trials that never materialized.
Source: Every news source
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Mubarak to be transferred to military hospital "Mazraa" associated with Tora prison after being judged ok to travel.
Well, he'll start sobbing again and they will feel sorry for him and let him stay a little longer in his suite in Sharm Hospital Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Egypt-Israel gas pipeline attacked by armed gang' By REUTERS AND JPOST.COM STAFF 04/27/2011 06:12
Egyptian security source says unknown assailants blew up pipeline in Sinai leading to Jordan and Israel; pipeline has been target of attack since Egyptian unrest began in February.
The myth of ‘non-violence’
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
Egypt first-time guest at Cannes film festival
The Cannes International Film Festival on Thursday announced a new plan to host a "guest country" at the festival each year, and that Egypt will be the first, in tribute to the 25 January revolution.
In a statement, the administration said that the Egyptian uprising reflected a universal longing for freedom and democracy.
This year’s Cannes festival, to be held from 11 May to 22 May, will be its 64th. A celebration held on 18 May will commemorate the late Egyptian filmmaker Youssef Shahin and present the Egyptian film "18 Days," which comprises ten short documentary films depicting the revolution.
The celebration will end with a dinner, to be attended by the Egyptian minister of culture.
The Egyptian film “The Postman” will also be shown among the festival’s “classics” program.
The festival will also salute the Tunisian revolution by showing the Tunisian documentary film "No More Fear," which French Minister of Culture Frederic Mitterrand invited the Egyptian delegation to watch.
Translated from the Arabic Edition
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
AUC law professor to be tried before a military court
By Mai Shams El-Din /Daily News Egypt April 29, 2011, 6:02 pm
CAIRO: Law professor at the American University in Cairo Amr El-Shalakany was arrested two days ago and will be tried in a military court in Suez, according to rights activist and a member of "No for Military Trials for Civilians" campaign, Mona Saif,
El- Shalakany faces a possible sentence of 15 years in prison for "insulting the supreme military council" and causing riots and burning a police station.
Hailing from a family of prominent lawyers, El-Shalakany has not yet been officially charged. He was arrested when he attempted to drive in a restricted area near Neama Bay in Sharm El-Shiekh, one of Egypt’s top beach resorts in South Sinai.
He allegedly exchanged verbal insults with the military officers who tried to stop him.
Initially he was to be released Friday when the detaining officers suddenly decided to transfer him to Suez for a trial under martial law.
"We assume that he would not set fire in a police station, and would calculate his actions in this context, as someone who is very aware of Egyptian law," said Saif.
El-Shalakany's lawyer could not be reached for comment by press time.
Swiss reveal funds stashed by Gaddafi, Mubarak, Ben Ali
GENEVA (Reuters) – Switzerland has found 360 million Swiss francs ($415.8 million) of potentially illegal assets linked to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his circle stashed in the Alpine country, the Foreign Ministry said on Monday.
Some 410 million Swiss francs traced to former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and 60 million Swiss francs linked to former Tunisian President Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali have also been identified, Foreign Ministry spokesman Lars Knuchel said.
"In the case of Libya, it was 360 million Swiss francs," Knuchel told Reuters. "These amounts are frozen in Switzerland following blocking orders by the Swiss government related to potentially illegal assets in Switzerland."
Both Tunisia and Egypt -- where unrest led to the ousting of Ben Ali and Mubarak -- are in touch with Swiss judicial authorities regarding their formal requests for legal assistance to seek return of the funds and property, according to Knuchel.
No such discussions are underway with authorities in Libya, where Gaddafi is clinging to power in the face of an uprising and NATO air strikes.
Neutral Switzerland had previously announced that it was freezing any assets linked to the three North African leaders, thereby requiring financial and other institutions to report any suspicious funds.
The respective amounts were fairly "stable," based on information provided by Swiss-based financial institutions to authorities, Knuchel said. He declined to name the banks or the cantons (states) in which the accounts or properties are held.
"We never specify the institutions. It is not just money, there are real estate assets," he said.
LIBYA HAS DENIED SWISS ACCOUNTS
Swiss Foreign Minister Micheline Calmy-Rey was shown on Swiss television on Monday night telling a news conference in Tunis after meeting Swiss ambassadors from North Africa and the Middle East meeting in the Tunisian capital: "The funds that Mr. Ben Ali put in Switzerland were not very significant. We did not have very good relations with his regime."
Libya's foreign ministry has previously denied that Gaddafi holds bank accounts in Switzerland or in other foreign coffers.
Relations between Switzerland and Libya soured in July 2008 when Geneva police arrested Gaddafi's son Hannibal on charges of abusing two domestic employees. The charges were later dropped after a confidential settlement negotiated with the victims.
Libya withdrew more than $5 billion from Swiss banks, halted oil exports to Switzerland and barred two Swiss businessmen working in Libya from leaving the country for more than a year.
Swiss authorities also froze assets belonging to Ivory Coast's now deposed President Laurent Gbagbo in January.
Switzerland has worked hard in recent years to improve its image as a haven for ill-gotten assets.
Its cabinet has previously taken blocked funds in accounts held by deposed strongmen including Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines and Nigeria's Sani Abacha, buying time for foreign prosecutors to build a case for restitution of funds.
Knuchel said that Switzerland had returned $800 million, held by Abacha, to Nigeria, although it took some 4-5 years to complete legal proceedings.
"It was a good example of restitution," he said.
The Swiss Finance Ministry said earlier on Monday it had started proceedings to return assets of former Haitian dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier, frozen since 1986, to the Haitian government.
Posted by this (Member # 17234) on :
May 5 (Reuters) - Egypt's former interior minister, Habib al-Adli, was sentenced on Thursday to 12 years in jail for money laundering and profiteering, a judicial source said.
Many Egyptians have been closely watching the fate of Adli, one of the most hated members of the administration of Hosni Mubarak, because of the brutality of his police force during the uprising that deposed the former president on Feb. 11.
Adli is also facing separate charges of killing pro-democracy protesters during the revolt and squandering public funds. (Reporting by Dina Zayed; Writing by Edmund Blair)
الجريدة: كشفت تحريات رقابية عن مفاجآت جديدة فى قضية الاستيلاء على أموال مهرجان القراءة للجميع، تتمثل فى حصول سوزان ثابت، زوجة الرئيس السابق حسنى مبارك، وفاروق حسنى، وزير الثقافة الأسبق، وأنس الفقى، وزير الإعلام السابق، وصاحب دار نشر شهيرة على 1.5 مليار جنيه كانت أرسلتها دول وجهات أجنبية لدعم المهرجان.
هذا وقالت مصادر إن التحريات أفادت بأن صاحب دار النشر اتفق مع الفقى على استثمار هذه الأموال فى شركات سمسرة، يملك جمال وعلاء مبارك أسهماً بها، مما أدى لتحقيقهم أرباحاً بلغت نحو 2 مليار جنيه.
ولقد أوضحت تفاصيل التحقيقات التى أجراها فريق من محققى جهاز الكسب غير المشروع وأعضاء اللجنة القضائية، مع جمال مبارك، نجل الرئيس السابق، داخل سجن مزرعة طرة، فى وقائع اتهامه بتضخم ثروته نتيجة استغلال سلطات والده، التى استمرت أكثر من 7 ساعات، وانتهت بحبسه 15 يوماً على ذمة التحقيقات. أن جمال حصل على 5 ” عمولة من قيمة عقد تصدير الغاز إلى إسرائيل.
ولقد أشارت التحقيقات إل حصول رجل الأعمال حسين سالم على نسبة مماثلة، وأن جمال مبارك استغل نفوذه وتمت الموافقة على تصدير 1.7 مليار متر مكعب سنوياً من الغاز لمدة 20 عاماً بثمن يتراوح بين 75 سنتاً و1.5 دولار للمليون وحدة حرارية، بينما يصل سعر التكلفة إلى 2.65 دولار، مما أضر بالمال العام، لكن جمال نفى حصوله على عمولة وقال: ”ليس لى علاقة بموضوع الغاز من قريب أو بعيد ولم أحصل على عمولات”.
وخلال التحقيقات اعترف جمال بعدم تقديمه إقرارات الذمة المالية الخاصة به على مدى 10 سنوات، واعترف بوجود تحويلات بنكية بين حساباته وحسابات مسؤولين سابقين فى الحكومة والحزب الوطنى المنحل، منهم أحمد عز وزهير جرانة وأحمد المغربى، لكنه قال: ”هذه التحويلات كانت تبرعات للحزب، وأنه كان ينفقها على الدعاية له”.
لكن جمال عجز عن الرد على المحقق عندما واجهه بوجود شركات فى قبرص وإحدى الجزر البريطانية تعمل فى إدارة صناديق الاستثمار، ويتم تمويلها من بعض رجال الأعمال، ويساهم فيها هو وشقيقه، بجانب شركات أخرى لهما فى بريطانيا ومصر وجزيرتى فيرجين وكايمن أيلاند، فيما نفى وجود حسابات سرية لأفراد أسرته فى البنوك، وأعطى أعضاء اللجنة موافقة بالكشف عن سرية حساباته فى الداخل والخارج، ووقع على ذلك باللغات العربية والإنجليزية والفرنسية.
من جهة أخرى، بدأت نيابة أمن الدولة العليا التحقيق فى البلاغ المقدم ضد المهندس سامح فهمى، وزير البترول السابق المحبوس فى سجن طرة، وعدد من قيادات الوزارة بشأن الموافقة على إبرام اتفاق لبيع الغاز المصرى بالأمر المباشر عام 2002 إلى الشركة الإسبانية – المصرية للغاز، التى تساهم فيها شركة يونيون فينوسيا الإسبانية بحصة الأغلبية
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Families of revolution martyrs threaten to set Suez ablaze
قضت محكمة جنايات الجيزة برئاسة المستشار محمود سامي كامل بمعاقبة زهير جرانة وزير السياحة السابق ورجلي الأعمال حسين السجواني وهشام الحاذق بالسجن المشدد لمدة 5 سنوات مع إلزامهم برد المبالغ المهدرة من أموال الدولة المقدرة بـ51 مليون دولار وذلك في قضية تخصيص ملايين الأفدنة لصالح شركتي الحاذق والسجواني بمنطقة الجمشة في الغردقة بالمخالفة للقانون وبسعر أقل من سعر المتر في هذه المنطقة. وفور صدر الحكم هتف أمير جرانة شقيق وزير السياحة السابق قائلا "ده مش عدل.. ده مش عدل" ووجه بعض أفراد أسرة جرانة ألفاظا سباب للصحفيين والإعلاميين المتواجدين بالقاعة بينما قام حرس المحكمة بإدخال زهير جرانة من قفص الاتهام بسرعة. ويعدر جرانة ثاني مسئول سابق في نظام مبارك المخلوع الذي يصدر ضده حكما بالسجن، بعدما صدر قبل أيام حكما على حبيب العادلي وزير الداخلية الأيف بالسجن 12 عاما في قضايا فساد مالي.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Mashaal: Egyptians are not required to march to Gaza Strip
Thu, 12/05/2011
Khaled Meshaal, the head of the political bureau of the Islamic resistance movement Hamas, said that for the time being Egyptians are not required to march to the Gaza Strip in support of the Palestinian cause.
Egyptian activists had called on Egyptians to march to the Gaza Strip through the Rafah border crossing on 15 May. The event, which has been dubbed “March to Palestine Day", is intended to mark the 63rd anniversary of the declaration of the State of Israel.
In statements published on the official website of the Muslim Brotherhood in Alexandria, Meshaal said that, "advocating the cause by taking a political stance, sending relief aid, boycotting and sending prayers is a must at the moment. We do not ask you to march."
He went on to say that "Egyptians of various factions and sectors must unite to establish a strong internal front,” said Meshaal. “They must pay attention to the fact that the transitional period must end as soon as possible and with minimal losses so it can form a strong government and authority that can heal the internal faults and protect the country from external threats."
"As a Palestinian resistance movement, we cannot expose Egypt to the burden or to more than it can handle now,” he said. “We cannot call on it to engage in a direct clash or war with the Zionist Entity at the critical stage that Egypt is passing through.”
Meshaal added that "the Palestinian people, who endured for 60 years will be able to withstand another five or ten years, and can wait for a powerful Egyptian recovery, which will in turn lead to the rise of the entire Islamic world, not only Palestine."
"I would like to tell the Egyptians to take care of their country and its internal front, and that the transitional period must pass quickly,” Said Meshaal. “We are waiting for you after Egypt rises, and we will not burden you with more than you can bear." http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/434877
Burning the israeli flag in #Tahrir NOW . Long Live #Palestine ...... #may13 5 hours ago
Israel is a disgusting ( will never call it country ) , Will burn their flag EVERYDAY again and again! YES i want to be offensive #Palestine 49 minutes ago
Tens of thousands of SMS call for the launch of the third Palestinian intifada
SMS flood Palestinian mobile phones in an attempt to ignite the third Palestinian intifada on Friday, with a series of events planned at the Al Aqsa mosque and elsewhere in the West Bank
adamakary Adam Makary Buses are being organized to bring #Copts to Cairo. This is all part of their ongoing protest for more rights in wake of the #Imbaba clashes 14 minutes ag
adamakary Adam Makary # Maspero protesters have also called on #Copts from all over #Egypt to gather there 2day, not #tahrir. Aim: to get a million ppl at state tv 16 minutes ago
This should become a very interesting weekend.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Uh ohhhh what a weekend indeed!!!! I could have won bets big time that really nasty events will unfold.
EGYPT: Shooting, clashes at Coptic Christian sit-in injure at least 60
May 15, 2011
Witnesses and Egyptian state television reported that armed thugs attacked a group of mainly Coptic Christian protesters overnight Saturday, injuring at least 60 people, two critically.
Christian protesters have been holding a sit-in outside the state television building in Cairo for nearly a week after Christian-Muslim clashes in the Imbaba area of the city that left 15 people dead.
Overnight, crowds could be seen rushing into the sit-in area, lobbing rocks and fire bombs from a nearby bridge and charging toward the few hundred protesters. Vehicles were set on fire and fires burned in the middle of the street.
Apparently, clashes began after protesters blocked the road at about 8 p.m. Marc Mino, a protest organizer, told state television that drivers had provoked the fight after refusing to be searched before entering the protest area. An eyewitness, George Thabet, said he saw “young thugs in plain clothes” atop the nearby 6th of October bridge hurl Molotov cocktails down at protesters at about 8 p.m., injuring scores of people and setting cars ablaze.
After gunshots were fired, police and soldiers set up tanks at the ends of the road and began firing warning shots to scare of the attackers, Thabet said. By 1:30 a.m., security forces had restored order and protesters resumed the sit-in.
Sectarian violence has challenged Egypt's military rulers, who took over after longtime President Hosni Mubarak was forced to step down in February and have attempted to maintain order ahead of September’s presidential election.
Political analyst Ammar Ali Hassan described the latest violence as "a second phase of what started last week in Imbaba."
"The same people who ignited sectarian violence and were aiming to disrupt the country’s stability and start a civil war between Muslims and Copts to destroy any gains of the January 25th revolution are unleashing their thugs against Coptic demonstrators, especially after efforts to calm down tensions over the last week have been relatively successful," he said.
He rejectedthe possibility that the attackers were religious extremists, and said they were more likely allied with Mubarak.
"We still have many people who belonged to Mubarak’s regime and it’s in their best interest to trigger conflicts like these and keep them alive," Hassan said.
Following the latest religious violence, military leaders promised to respond to Coptic Christian protesters’ demands, including reopening nearly 50 churches. But no trial date has been set for those responsible for last week’s violence.
Our friends on Twitter are telling us that protests in Cairo against the Israeli Embassy have turned violent.
From what we are hearing and seeing (via YouTube and TwitPic) there could be hundreds injured and several killed. The Army is involved and there are reports of tear gas being used, as well as bullets.
Animals at the Cairo Zoo are also crying out as tear gas drifts into the animals' cages.
This is one in a series of protests demanding the removal of the Israeli ambassador and the severance of ties with the Jewish state.
We think they should all just stop -- right about now -- before this situation becomes worse than it already is ...
Let's have a look ourselves at some of the tweets:
Ramy Yaacoub There are several reports stating that some protesters at Israeli Embassy in #Cairo attempted to storm it. #Egypt 5 hours ago
Zeinobia By the way I am quite distracted by some of our revolutionaries ,what do you want !? seriously what do you want ? 2 hours ago
Menna منّة Alaa I said it once,and I'll say it again. A revolution is destroyed by the stupidity of its revolutionaries. #Egypt #israeliembassy 3 hours ago
Nadia El-Awady I seriously worry about revolutionaries becoming addicted to the adrenaline of revolting for the sake of revolting alone 3 hours ago
Alfred Raouf What happened today at #IsraeliEmbassy is the worst possible distraction, it will not get any public support to the revolutionaries #Egypt 2 hours ago
Reem Abdellatif We need to fix our country first and we need to start now. then we'll get what we want. #EGypt #IsraeliEmbassy #Maspiro 2 hours ago
Adam Makary #BREAKING #UPDATE: at least 120 people injured after clashes outside the Israeli embassy in #egypt // #nakba #gaza 33 minutes ago
How pathetic these Egyptians are.... Instead of focusing on the upcoming parliamentary elections and bringing back stability to their own country they are out to show their hate against 'arch enemy' Israel.
The revolution got side tracked I am afraid to say, it's gone..... you royally **** up your country and do no good for your own citizens. Keep up these kinds of incidents and you are better off with Mubarak again and his state of emergency law.
Egyptians can't deal with freedom I can see that now; sh$t what else will happen in the months to come????? You ain't gonna get tourists or your blooming economy back in this kind of way no no no..... FCUK THIS. GOOD NIGHT!!!!!!!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Okay, first good update on what exactly took place last night:
@adamakary Adam Makary #BREAKING: Health ministry now says 353 people injured in yesterday's clashes outside the Israeli embassy in #Egypt #nakba #gaza
rago_legal Ragia Omran Confirmed approx 150 protesters arrested yesterday frm #Israeliembassy are at Military Prison in Haykestap. No interrogation yet.#egyarmy
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt highest military leader Tantawy's first public speech since Feb 11
Candlelight vigil for Egyptian shot by army asks 'Why was Ramy killed?'
Mourners at a candlelight vigil are burdened with questions over how Ramy Fakhry was shot three times from behind by the Egyptian army, despite his family's satisfaction with the investigation
by Mohamed El Hebeishy, Ekram Ibrahim, Tuesday 17 May 2011
He should never speak again. He's pathetic.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
At the rally last Tuesday to demand the release of our friend Tarek Shalaby, who was imprisoned along with hundreds of other civilians in the military base of "Haykestep" الهايكستب, for having peacefully protested on May 15th, we had a funny discussion:
I don't know if the people who keep giving him prizes are dumb or just can't read. No matter how he tries to highlight the fact that he had a small role in th revolution somehow westerners love making too much out of him. It is not helping him at all as people are getting quite annoyed of hearing about him all the time. I know I am.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
People can't be that annoyed cause Wael just landed a mega book deal.
Without a doubt he receives so much international recognition because of the interview upon his release (well here is the dramatic end of it):
And he's not the only one who gets awards. Blogger Sandmonkey f.e. just received recognition by the University of San Francisco.
Just a week ago I was reading an article from the NYP stating that Egypt's revolution isn't over and all these blogger who get awards in the US and go for interviews would be better off and stay in their homeland to make this change a successful one.
Ahhhh..... another million man protest in Cairo this Friday!!!
Tuesday, May 24, 2011
The Demands of #May27 Million Man Protest
Here are the demands of the #May 27 million man protest insh Allah at Tahrir next Friday. I found this flyer in Tahrir square. The demands in this flyer are classified in to economic demands , political demands and freedoms demands. First :The economic demands :
Minimum and maximum limit of wages Redistributing wealth to save the country from economic crisis. Controlling prices. Impose progressive taxes Prosecuting corrupted businessmen and confiscating the assets they got illegally Second : The political demands :
The return of police force extensively Prosecuting Mubarak on the charge of treason based on the confession of field marshal Tantawy that Mubarak gave his orders to the army to kill the protesters. Legal and human rights supervision on the newly found national security apparatus and to prosecute all the officers involved in murdering the protests and their torture. Disbanding the municipals. Disbanding the security central force or merger it in the army. Enforcing the voting rights of Egyptians abroad in elections. Dismissing Yahia El Gamal from his positions and prosecuting Omar Soliman. Third : The freedom demands :
No military trials for civilians. Re-prosecuting those convicted in front of military courts after reverting them to civilian courts. To ban the dispersing of strikes with force. Cleaning up the media , we want a media that represents the people not the ruler I found many people do not agree with the economic demands , they feel that they are bit Nasserite and socialist especially the redistribution of wealth.This point made people fear from nationalization. I believe the economic demands were put in the first part of the flyer in order to attract the working class. Other than that the demands are reasonable. I found out that it was written by activist Lillian Wagdy’s father. These demands are actually very close to the demands issued by 6th April youth. The famous group published a list for the demands on the Facebook and the demands of 6th April are :
Justice : Fast , just and public trials for Mubarak and his regime icons. A new committee to be formed for political corruption charges. “We do not have a law for political corruption.” Cleaning up : Cleaning up the ministries especially the ministry of interior , the media ,governorates, the universities and the embassies from Mubarak’s remnants.Dissolving the current municipals. The rights of the revolution’s martyrs and injured : Their right to be treated on the state’s expense and the families of the martyrs. Freedom : Lifting up the emergency laws as long as it is not being used against the Mubarak regime’s remnants and the thugs. Liberating the official mainstream : From the remnants of the Mubarak regime and from those hypocrites to the SCAF , who cut the on air programs because guests criticize the rulers of the country. Securing the nation and its youth : No more double standards in dealing with protests violently or sending youth to military courts while leaving and ignoring criminals and thugs in the street. Bread , freedom , dignity and humanity : Protests should not be banned despite we know that the government is facing huge economic challenges. We want clear strategies and plan for the coming period. The people and the army are one hand : It is not a protest against the army but we have the right to criticize the SCAF Wael Ghonim is using Google moderator to know what we want from #May27 million man protest and most answers came in favor of two demands : Prosecuting the former regime icons and the return of security. Here are the demands I found reasonable to go to Tahrir on May 27th. Of course up till now the reactions online are encouraging but offline , well we need to remind the people that the revolution is not over and we are not looking for another revolution but we are looking for the demands of the first revolution that have not been fulfilled. Now some want it another Day of wrath , Day of revolution or rather second revolution and honestly I do not know what kind of second revolution when the first revolution has not finished yet !? We have still demands that are not fulfilled yet from the first revolution. The first revolution is not over. Any talk about second revolution with my all respect is some sort of political crap with my due respect !! Mohamed Diab wrote about why #May27 should be a million man protest and not a revolution. Many will attack Diab especially he was from the youth that met with some of the SCAF members.
So many demands, so little time..... the economy is down the gutter and parliamentary elections will be held in merely four months.
As I see it Egyptians will be able to protest for the next 20 years.
Don't think that these demonstrations will stop once a new president takes over the country. Egyptians were deprieved of voicing their opinions for many years and now they going to take full advantage of it. Everyone is already out there to demonstrate for his very own interests be it wages, human rights, religious reasons etc. etc....
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: As I see it Egyptians will be able to protest for the next 20 years.
Good for them.
True democracy is not the dictatorship of the majority over the minority - but listening to ALL voices.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: As I see it Egyptians will be able to protest for the next 20 years.
Good for them.
True democracy is not the dictatorship of the majority over the minority - but listening to ALL voices.
You gotta be kidding me. Time is running out because the elections loom. See the full picture. Vote for the most qualified candidates with actual plans and work it from there.
And as I said there is no end in sight for protests which are completely distracting from the main focus: ELECTIONS.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: As I see it Egyptians will be able to protest for the next 20 years.
Good for them.
True democracy is not the dictatorship of the majority over the minority - but listening to ALL voices.
You gotta be kidding me. Time is running out because the elections loom. See the full picture. End as I said there is no end in sight for protests.
After the elections when you are proven wrong, will you publically apologize on this board for your anti-democracy rantings?
Or does your eastern block east german beginnings blinded your mind against democracy so very completely?
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Sonomod, go and work on your dysfunctional life!!!!
************************************************
Rights groups urge 7 ministers replaced
The Egyptian Gazette Tuesday, May 24, 2011 04:22:42 PM
Five Egyptian human rights groups yesterday called on Prime Minister Essam Sharaf to replace seven ministers as well as deputy prime minister Yehia el-Gamal as soon as possible over their alleged failure to "respect expectations of the Egyptian people".
The groups urged Sharaf in a letter to dismiss el-Gamal as well as ministers of transport, health, industry, water resources, civil aviation, housing and telecommunications "for lacking a clear-cut strategy to develop the sectors they lead". "Those ministers and the deputy premier could not achieve expectations of the Egyptian people for lacking a roadmap to the future," the group added in the letter. The groups also called on Sharaf to adopt new ways to improve people's daily life." Otherwise "resign and open the way for new Government to take over such heavy responsibility," they told Sharaf who was picked for the post last March. The groups sending the letter are New World for Development and Human Rights; the Reform and Citizenship; Observers without Borders Network; Advocates of Human Rights; and the Civil Society for Justice and Democracy.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Sonomod, go and work on your dysfunctional life!!!!
************************************************
Rights groups urge 7 ministers replaced
The Egyptian Gazette Tuesday, May 24, 2011 04:22:42 PM
Five Egyptian human rights groups yesterday called on Prime Minister Essam Sharaf to replace seven ministers as well as deputy prime minister Yehia el-Gamal as soon as possible over their alleged failure to "respect expectations of the Egyptian people".
The groups urged Sharaf in a letter to dismiss el-Gamal as well as ministers of transport, health, industry, water resources, civil aviation, housing and telecommunications "for lacking a clear-cut strategy to develop the sectors they lead". "Those ministers and the deputy premier could not achieve expectations of the Egyptian people for lacking a roadmap to the future," the group added in the letter. The groups also called on Sharaf to adopt new ways to improve people's daily life." Otherwise "resign and open the way for new Government to take over such heavy responsibility," they told Sharaf who was picked for the post last March. The groups sending the letter are New World for Development and Human Rights; the Reform and Citizenship; Observers without Borders Network; Advocates of Human Rights; and the Civil Society for Justice and Democracy.
Thats only 7 mininisters, when babaMu was in power he'd replace his entire cabnit every 10-18 months and order the parliment to be replaced almost as often.
At least I am honest about my life and didn't create two more biological children, two adopted, and a number of other falsehoods just to get attention.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: As I see it Egyptians will be able to protest for the next 20 years.
Good for them.
True democracy is not the dictatorship of the majority over the minority - but listening to ALL voices.
You gotta be kidding me. Time is running out because the elections loom.
Don't you mean time is running out because your holiday to Egypt looms? Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Don't you mean time is running out because your holiday to Egypt looms?
What a nonsense. I wasn't aware that I will spent my vacation in a temporary tent on Tahrir Square.
Hurghada is as much as quite as your Luxor is. I am pretty certain about that. Only problems arise in Cairo. There on Tahrir Square people are getting mobilized to protest.
BUT TAHRIR IS NOT EGYPT.
And the opinions you hear there don't match those of million of other Egyptians around the country.
Everywhere else in the country business is as usual, people are going to work (thanks god at least they know what's currently in the best interest for their own country), they are going on with their lives and try to make the best out of the dilemma which was created through the uprising.
As I predicted already in February most likely by now many many Egyptians are regretting what happened since Jan25. Under Mubarak there was stability now it's all uncertainty. Egyptians care only to a certain degree about freedom and democracy - their moreso worry to put daily food on the table. Freedom and democracy won't fill your stomach. Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Salafis and Brotherhood to coordinate efforts in parliamentary elections
Khaled Saeed, founder of the new Fadila (meaning virtue) Party, which was founded recently by a group of Salafis, says he has agreed with the Muslim Brotherhood group that neither party will field candidates in areas where the other is fielding candidates during the next parliamentary elections.
“We shall meet in a few days to determine how many parliamentary seats each party will compete for,” he said. “We do not want to antagonize any political party that is based on a religious reference.”
Saeed also said the platform of the Fadila Party is currently being devised by a number of legal experts.
Well isn't that awesome.....
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
Everywhere else in the country business is as usual, people are going to work (thanks god at least they know what's currently in the best interest for their own country), they are going on with their lives and try to make the best out of the dilemma which was created through the uprising.
They are getting on with their lives because that's in the best interest for them, that's how they feed their families.
quote:As I predicted already in February most likely by now many many Egyptians are regretting what happened since Jan25. Under Mubarak there was stability now it's all uncertainty. Egyptians care only to a certain degree about freedom and democracy - their moreso worry to put daily food on the table. Freedom and democracy won't fill your stomach.
I disagree, they are certainly not regretting what happened and are pleased it did and yes freedom and democracy will feed them and they know they will get through this. They now know how much their 'stable' president and his regime stole from them in monetary terms and in terms of freedom. They ARE upset about the sectarian violence in some areas but only a few think it's not still regime members trying to make them think what you think they already do.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Egypt: you can’t eat democracy
by Alan Fraser Wednesday, May 25, 2011
Despite providing a real opportunity for the Egyptian people’s desire for more political freedom, the 25 January revolution also exposed a number of vital problems. These matter more to future prosperity and stability in Egypt and the region than the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak. Continuing violence is increasingly sectarian, while the economic impact of the unrest worsens the structural obstacles to growth, leaving little hope of improvement for those who revolted against poor living conditions, food inflation and high unemployment. Sectarian violence between Coptic Christians and Muslims has surged.
A number of clashes in recent weeks in the Imbaba district of Cairo killed at least 15, both Copts and Muslims. Reports of non-intervention by security forces has prompted fears that Egypt’s interim military government is incapable of imposing order, particularly as non-sectarian crime has also risen sharply in recent months.But the most pressing problem for the interim government remains the economy, as in most of the Arab Spring countries: “We are very much concerned by the rise in expectations... Sometimes the demands are justified and sometimes they are unrealistic,” Finance Minister Samir Radwan said this week. Due to the recent instability, the economy contracted by around 7% in the first quarter of this year. Tourism revenue, the largest component of GDP, declined by 80%, while the stockmarket tumbled 32% prompted by security fears. The IMF has revised its growth estimate to 1% this year after 5.1% growth last year, while the Institute of International Finance (IIF) expects a decline in GDP of 2.5%. Yet strong growth is required simply to keep pace with a rapidly growing population and rising inflation.
In response, the World Bank is expected to lend around US$2.2 billion, while Egypt has asked the IMF for help in curbing an estimated US$10 to US$12 billion gap in government funding. Despite fears that the military-led government may be less inclined towards economic liberalisation and privatisation than the former regime, the new loan deals can be expected to enforce a resumption of economic reforms, which had been gradually started under the previous regime. With an average of 20% of Egyptians living in poverty (and up to 70% in some rural areas), however, any austerity measures and some economic freedoms such as removing subsidies may prove as inflammatory for a new government as the current sectarian violence.
There are also continuing fears that Islamist movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood, or more extreme Salafists, may take advantage of unpopular economic policies to gain traction in the newly open political scene. Religious groups, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood, were largely left behind by the pace of the anti-Mubarak demonstrations, initially led by a loose coalition of bloggers, youth activists and opposition party supporters. However, given its superior organisation, combined with its reputation for social welfare, the Brotherhood may become an attractive option for those increasingly disillusioned with the slow rate of change—even though the majority of Egyptians do not agree with the group’s ideology.
Representative government may perhaps repress the endemic corruption that was one of the themes of anti-government demonstrations. However, as demonstrated elsewhere—most notably in Lebanon and Iraq—democracy does not directly translate into prosperity and stability: indeed, politics often hampers economic freedoms and trade, the removal of regulations and the withdrawal of subsidies to favoured sectors—all the things that allow people to prosper. In fact, many Arab Spring protestors demanded more subsidies and more jobs from government.
If a future elected government of this massively influential Arab nation does not grasp the economic nettle, Egypt’s underlying weakness will continue to fuel instability and inter-communal conflict: failure will resound throughout the Arab world.
So do you wish that, in the light of the financial and social difficulties which followed 'reunification' in the early 1990s, East Germany had remained independent of West Germany, or were the few years of pain worth it?
"As might have been expected, the economy of eastern Germany went into a deep and precipitous slump immediately after unification. Within a year after unification, the number of unemployed rose above 3 million. Industrial production in eastern Germany fell to less than half the previous rate, and the total regional product fell precipitously through 1991. One estimate was that in 1991 the entire production of eastern Germany amounted to less than 8 percent of that of western Germany."
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Oh wow..... I don't think Egyptian morning news can get any better than that.
Ayisha, Shanta and others - you might wanna consider to look for a new retirement home OUTSIDE of Egypt. You as foreign expats had a great life under Mubarak's regime.
Remember all the trouble starting on Jan 25.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: So do you wish that, in the light of the financial and social difficulties which followed 'reunification' in the early 1990s, East Germany had remained independent of West Germany, or were the few years of pain worth it?
"As might have been expected, the economy of eastern Germany went into a deep and precipitous slump immediately after unification. Within a year after unification, the number of unemployed rose above 3 million. Industrial production in eastern Germany fell to less than half the previous rate, and the total regional product fell precipitously through 1991. One estimate was that in 1991 the entire production of eastern Germany amounted to less than 8 percent of that of western Germany."
Okay let me tell you something, as a German, as someone who witnessed reunification and the years that followed IN PERSON.
Yeah we had a huge rate of unemployment due to the fact that our economy crushed once GDR was history but
- We were well studied, many professionals
- Good living standards, never poor (only the first years after WWII ended but so was whole Germany) infact I remember we sent aid packages off to other socialist countries during my schooltime in the 80's
- We did not march and asked for outrageous demands and worked as much as we were able to
- We had no sectarian violence whatsorever (we were one) and most of all no religious nuts around.
Btw, Shanta, I have no idea where you get the 'social difficulties' from. Please can you be more specific?
Now look at Egypt:
- Non-stopping strikes and call for silly demands (silly as you won't be able to fix the whole country in four months until elections will take place)
- Illiteracy is still very rampant
- Religion is very deep rooted and many religious crazies are around
- High rate of poverty.
It doesn't look good for Egypt, not at all. It's gonna be a painful wake-up for many at some point.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: - Good living standards, never poor (only the first years after WWII ended but so was whole Germany) infact I remember we sent aid packages off to other socialist countries during my schooltime in the 80's
And I remember we sent aid packages off to East Germany.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: - Good living standards, never poor (only the first years after WWII ended but so was whole Germany) infact I remember we sent aid packages off to other socialist countries during my schooltime in the 80's
And I remember we sent aid packages off to East Germany.
Oh you mean boxes with sweets, clothes, pens, coffee etc. in them you've sent to your extended family in East Germany? And you would hide some Deutsche Mark in there in the hope that East German authorities wouldn't find it? Yeah we've got them too from my grandma but I would hardly define them as 'aid packages'.
Your above claim is absolutely false. West and East Germany were on Cold War terms. And anyway you don't come around as someone who would care.
Well then how is life at the German University? Keep tight on that job... you might lose it soon. You never know what's going to happen with Egypt. Grrrrr!!!! Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
Your above claim is absolutely false. West and East Germany were on Cold War terms.
I said we used to send aid packages to East Germany. This is a true fact, not a "false claim". Posted by Mrs Hassan (Member # 15069) on :
Now look at Egypt:
- Non-stopping strikes and call for silly demands (silly as you won't be able to fix the whole country in four months until elections will take place)
- Illiteracy is still very rampant
- Religion is very deep rooted and many religious crazies are around
- High rate of poverty.
It doesn't look good for Egypt, not at all. It's gonna be a painful wake-up for many at some point. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Actually people dont have silly demands,its each to their own. All of the above things you have stated have been here for many years, and have not just appeared "Now look at Egypt:" Its just that we are getting a better view of things now media etc is not censored. Dont knock something which people have fought very hard for. The chance to make changes will happen.... not over night, but it will come. We look to the younger generations, to step up to the mark and take egypt forward and I am sure they will. Lots of dicussions here in Cairo to improve and make changes for the better. The media push the Mubarak situation, prosecution etc.. Everyone needs to forget about that and concentrate on building a future and beleive it or not...it is happening
Posted by Cheekyferret (Member # 15263) on :
Silly demands!!!!???
Wow...
Change takes time and I hope that the people of Egypt meet their demands, no matter how menial or 'silly' they appear to foreigners, to them their demands are REAL and much needed. And change will happen. Simple.
Let's hope that tomorrow is peaceful. I have already been warned that schools and KGs may not be oipen on Sunday!!! Some people are fearing the worst Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
It's just 4 months - 17 weeks - since the revolution started.
If you had got preganant on that day,
Your baby is now nearly 11cm long from crown to rump and weighs about 140g. His skeleton is mostly rubbery cartilage, but will start to harden as the weeks go by.
If you couldn't even grow a single whole baby in that time, how the heck do you suppose to change an entire society in that time?
Give it time!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: It's just 4 months - 17 weeks - since the revolution started.
If you had got preganant on that day,
Your baby is now nearly 11cm long from crown to rump and weighs about 140g. His skeleton is mostly rubbery cartilage, but will start to harden as the weeks go by.
If you couldn't even grow a single whole baby in that time, how the heck do you suppose to change an entire society in that time?
Give it time!
That was nicely said
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
Your above claim is absolutely false. West and East Germany were on Cold War terms. And anyway you don't come around as someone who would care.
Well then how is life at the German University? Keep tight on that job... you might lose it soon. You never know what's going to happen with Egypt. Grrrrr!!!!
Heck Americans were sending those aid packages too. Liberal socialist pro-peace types, they'd gather materials while on tour of the Berlin wall to show solidarity with those under communist rule (socialists are not communists, nor are they friendly to communism).
As a wife of a retired military personal who didn't exactly have the most flattering rank leaving the force; you need to be more worried about your own affairs.
While I don't appreciate over half of what Dalia has to say, she doesn't come across as a person who need to lie and create fairytales about her life as you do.
Undoubtably Germany is going to reestablish some very good ties within the Middle East since their foreign policy has established a more neutral approach.
Plus Dalia was living in Egypt for quite some time off and on before the revolution, she has some particularly fine tuned insights into how she can avoid some unpleasant fascets of life for expats.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
Your above claim is absolutely false. West and East Germany were on Cold War terms.
I said we used to send aid packages to East Germany. This is a true fact, not a "false claim".
And I say YOU ARE A LIAR . My mom is 72, born just before WWII and she never heard of aid packages from West to East Germany.
Besides that you did not come to discuss the post-Mubarak situation. You came on here yesterday to have a go at me. Try better next time.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: The media push the Mubarak situation, prosecution etc..
Wrong, its the Jan25 stars who want to have Mubarak hanged and they are pushing and pushing for prosecution instead of finding the right people to vote for in several months which can work successfully on their demands. Right now - as we speak - it's JUST NOT THE RIGHT TIME.
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Everyone needs to forget about that and concentrate on building a future and beleive it or not...it is happening
That's what I am saying. But protesting for the sake of protest is not a very good option right now.
Don't you people see the red flags? Muslim Brotherhood, Salafis, Gama'a al-Islamiya they all want to take part in this years elections.
And god forbid this just came up on the news:
After fall of Mubarak, group announces intent to form Nazi party
I am not sure if you all live in denial but there is a big danger of Islamization of Egypt in the air.
Who do think the normal village folks will vote for? MB and even Salafis.
If you want to do something good for your current home country go out and educate people.
Otherwise you will be sitting here in four months when the MB's won overall the parliamentary elections and will say these were fraudulent since it's too hard for you to swallow the truth.
Mubarak knew why he oppressed the MB, the Salafis, Gama'a al-Islamiya members. They all came out of the woodworks now to fight for their very own agendas - and many of them are not pretty ones I am afraid to say and wouldn't be in Egypt's best interest to move positively forward.
And shame on you for saying that all these latest actions of church burnings were done by paid pro-Mubarak supporters. I even had to read on here how people completely believe that Mubarak was involved in the church attack in Alexandria.
Mubarak might have been a dictator, but he was not evil.
What you have now running around on the streets and doing harm to others and Egyptian property these are evil people. They are a big threat to Egyptian society. Too many to catch I am afraid to say. And it's gonna get worse. You watch.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Silly demands!!!!???
Wow...
Change takes time and I hope that the people of Egypt meet their demands, no matter how menial or 'silly' they appear to foreigners, to them their demands are REAL and much needed. And change will happen. Simple.
I stated silly and I explained silly in my post so please don't pick out two words to twist what I said. I know some people are slower so I will repeat myself again.
SILLY because it's not the right time. Protesters are demanding too many things which the army can't guarantee. They are mainly there for protection and keeping the country civilized.
As you all know there is an interim goverment working right now, most ministers were appointed just merely two, three months ago. Not enough time to do a job well and even to focus on too many things. The country is experiencing a huge change in all aspects.
Again elections will be hold very soon. Elect the RIGHT people you trust and you share the same ideology to do the job of leading the country and only then push your agendas.
The only thing what is important right now is to get prepared for this very important time. Tell the protesters to get off the streets, stop the strikes at companies, just go to work, don't let the economy go down any further, bring calm and safety back to the country and its people.
Tourists will not come I repeat will not come if the unrest doesn't stop. The uprising damaged Egypt's economy completely; now it's time to rebuild the country. Egyptians have to aim for the same goals. They have to become one otherwise they will only hurt further the entire nation.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
once elections have been held it will be too late to make their demands, they could be in the same position as before. The electees need to know NOW what the people want so they can start campaigning towards that before elections.
Tell the people to get off the streets is the same as bring a babamu type back in and enforce the same regime there was before, they have a voice and they have every right to use it, 25 Jan gave them all that right, it has to carry on now. That is the only thing important right now, that Egypt runs for Egyptians
I repeat tourists are coming even now and it's almost summer, Egypt is on the map and tourists are coming. Without allowing the people to have a voice there will be no rebuilding of this country. They have as much right to protest and strike as you do.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
And I say YOU ARE A LIAR .
As you like. Posted by Mrs Hassan (Member # 15069) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: The media push the Mubarak situation, prosecution etc..
Wrong, its the Jan25 stars who want to have Mubarak hanged and they are pushing and pushing for prosecution instead of finding the right people to vote for in several months which can work successfully on their demands. Right now - as we speak - it's JUST NOT THE RIGHT TIME.
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Everyone needs to forget about that and concentrate on building a future and beleive it or not...it is happening
That's what I am saying. But protesting for the sake of protest is not a very good option right now.
Don't you people see the red flags? Muslim Brotherhood, Salafis, Gama'a al-Islamiya they all want to take part in this years elections.
And god forbid this just came up on the news:
After fall of Mubarak, group announces intent to form Nazi party
I am not sure if you all live in denial but there is a big danger of Islamization of Egypt in the air.
Who do think the normal village folks will vote for? MB and even Salafis.
If you want to do something good for your current home country go out and educate people.
Otherwise you will be sitting here in four months when the MB's won overall the parliamentary elections and will say these were fraudulent since it's too hard for you to swallow the truth.
Mubarak knew why he oppressed the MB, the Salafis, Gama'a al-Islamiya members. They all came out of the woodworks now to fight for their very own agendas - and many of them are not pretty ones I am afraid to say and wouldn't be in Egypt's best interest to move positively forward.
And shame on you for saying that all these latest actions of church burnings were done by paid pro-Mubarak supporters. I even had to read on here how people completely believe that Mubarak was involved in the church attack in Alexandria.
Mubarak might have been a dictator, but he was not evil.
What you have now running around on the streets and doing harm to others and Egyptian property these are evil people. They are a big threat to Egyptian society. Too many to catch I am afraid to say. And it's gonna get worse. You watch.
Everyone has a right to there opinion, as do you.. however dont bother coming on holiday as according to your last statement your bound to be robbed and beaten. Dont get we wrong, crime has risen, its just opportunists, dont tar the country with it all being a den of crime.. your not helping the situation. If you lived here you would have a better understanding of the current situation, and for those "foreigners" who choose to live there expat life here, most of them I know, inclduing Shanta/CF live in mostly egyptian areas and are feeling the situation 1st hand.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: once elections have been held it will be too late to make their demands, they could be in the same position as before. The electees need to know NOW what the people want so they can start campaigning towards that before elections.
You are thinking wrong. The protesters can't be actively roaming the streets and demanding loudly stuff what the army can't fulfill but need to sit right now with potential candidates together and create plans TOGETHER. And then they have enough time to 'sell' their candidate(s) to the people so they know who to vote for.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Tell the people to get off the streets is the same as bring a babamu type back in and enforce the same regime there was before, they have a voice and they have every right to use it, 25 Jan gave them all that right, it has to carry on now. That is the only thing important right now, that Egypt runs for Egyptians.
Honestly, Ayisha, I think it's good to be outside to get a different view of the whole situation. I will repeat again: Let calm and stability come back to Egypt and move away from the streets. Don't make matters worse.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I repeat tourists are coming even now and it's almost summer, Egypt is on the map and tourists are coming. Without allowing the people to have a voice there will be no rebuilding of this country. They have as much right to protest and strike as you do.
People are not coming back, not as they used to.
Here is the proof:
Cairo - The number of tourists visiting Egypt slumped 46% in the first quarter when mass protests ousted President Hosni Mubarak, the government's statistics agency said on Sunday.
"CAIRO: The price tag for the labor unrest and political protests that have roiled Egypt since the outbreak of the mass demonstrations that ousted President Hosni Mubarak has reached LE 20.5 billion ( $3.5 billion ), the country's finance minister said Thursday. The total was a fresh indication of the bruising taken by the economy since Mubarak's ouster in February. Worker demands for higher wages and ensuing strikes have compounded problems caused by the near-daily protests that continue in the Arab world's most populous nation. Finance Minister Samir Radwan said that LE 13.5 billion ( $2.2 billion ) of the losses were in the tourism sector — an Egyptian mainstay that has been damaged badly since the start of the Jan. 25 Revolution...."
And the ongoing fighting in neighbor country Libya and now that the Rafah border opens permanently will not influence the situation any better.
14 million tourists came last year to Egypt , imagine that, what an impressive number. That's how it used to be. You can discredit Mubarak and his governemnt all you want but you must respect him for bringing tourists into the country.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Without allowing the people to have a voice there will be no rebuilding of this country. They have as much right to protest and strike as you do.
But people had the last four months to voice their demands and opinions. Now it's time to work on it. All that drama on the streets and in the factories won't bring any prosperity for the country; it's only counterproductive. One step at a time I say, the main focus should now be elections.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
And I say YOU ARE A LIAR .
As you like.
Rolling eyes ain't enough, you need to come up with something more than that. I am still interested about the imaginative 'aid packages'.
Perhaps next time you will do better in attacking me (if that's what you wish to do). Better is just stick to a topic.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
And shame on you for saying that all these latest actions of church burnings were done by paid pro-Mubarak supporters. I even had to read on here how people completely believe that Mubarak was involved in the church attack in Alexandria.
You cannot be serious!
quote:Mubarak might have been a dictator, but he was not evil.
2 men meet at Hajj, they chat and one finds the other has a certain position, he says to the guy to remember Allah and do the right thing while in this position.
They arrive back in Egypt from Hajj on the same plane, man in position has other man arrested and locked away for years for saying 'do the right thing'
That is evil. Where is the mercy he is now expecting and what was the crime this man was locked away for for years?
quote:What you have now running around on the streets and doing harm to others and Egyptian property these are evil people. They are a big threat to Egyptian society. Too many to catch I am afraid to say. And it's gonna get worse. You watch.
You really don't seem to get it. Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Everyone has a right to there opinion, as do you.. however dont bother coming on holiday as according to your last statement your bound to be robbed and beaten. Dont get we wrong, crime has risen, its just opportunists, dont tar the country with it all being a den of crime.. your not helping the situation. If you lived here you would have a better understanding of the current situation, and for those "foreigners" who choose to live there expat life here, most of them I know, inclduing Shanta/CF live in mostly egyptian areas and are feeling the situation 1st hand.
Oh don't worry I will come on vacation ( actually on two right now), who knows how long it is safe there to come after all?
It must be a difficult time right now for Egyptians and expats to live in the country with the ongoing high crime rate caused by the uprising. Seriously if Egyptians don't feel safe why should tourists????
I am concerned that posters on here seem to have their rose-colored glasses on in regards to Egypt's situation.
Really if you don't want to see the red flags that's fine. If you want to live in denial that's fine with me too.
Have a good day.
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
Actually, TL, you'll be pleased to know that many people are working on elections. There are party meetings every evening. However, all this activity is not being reported inside or outside the country. Here are some of the websites for your interest: http://www.egysdp.com/ http://www1.eladl.org/pages/home.aspx http://almasreyeenalahrrar.org/ There is a lot of action on the ground, visiting governorates etc. The country is not overcome with demonstrations. Tahrir just gets busy on a Friday!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Mrs Hassan: Everyone has a right to there opinion, as do you.. however dont bother coming on holiday as according to your last statement your bound to be robbed and beaten. Dont get we wrong, crime has risen, its just opportunists, dont tar the country with it all being a den of crime.. your not helping the situation. If you lived here you would have a better understanding of the current situation, and for those "foreigners" who choose to live there expat life here, most of them I know, inclduing Shanta/CF live in mostly egyptian areas and are feeling the situation 1st hand.
Oh don't worry I will come on vacation ( actually on two right now), who knows how long it is safe there to come after all?
It must be a difficult time right now for Egyptians and expats to live in the country with the ongoing high crime rate caused by the uprising. Seriously if Egyptians don't feel safe why should tourists????
I am concerned that posters on here seem to have their rose-colored glasses on in regards to Egypt's situation.
Really if you don't want to see the red flags that's fine. If you want to live in denial that's fine with me too.
Have a good day.
No rose coloured glasses on but rather eyes that see first hand how it is, and it's not how you seem to think it is. If you are prepared to still come on holiday what makes you think millions of others who know Egypt already wont still come? I don't know anyone who lives here or who is regular visitor that has gone home or canceled their plans, even when the planes were canceled people still found a way to get here.
You are the one living in denial, we are the ones living here by The Nile.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: If you are prepared to still come on holiday what makes you think millions of others who know Egypt already wont still come? I don't know anyone who lives here or who is regular visitor that has gone home or canceled their plans, even when the planes were canceled people still found a way to get here.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT, AYISHA. I know what to expect, I am not worried. I lived in Egypt for three years, I still come back and back again on vacation.
You know I had my neighbor asking me two weeks ago when I mentioned I am happy to go off to Egypt soon if I am not concerned?
The same happened to me with two American ladies residing overseas here in Germany. They can't believe I am going - with children. They are actually concerned for my kiddies. I just tried to explain to them that we are going to the Red Sea and it's quiet there.
But that's how normal people view Egypt right now: PROBLEMATIC. And every new news report about sectarian violence and unpeaceful demonstrations on the street just further confirms their opinion.
And you deliberately avoided the links I posted in regards how much Egyptian tourism is down in the loo right now. No prob.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by citizen: Actually, TL, you'll be pleased to know that many people are working on elections. There are party meetings every evening. However, all this activity is not being reported inside or outside the country. Here are some of the websites for your interest: http://www.egysdp.com/ http://www1.eladl.org/pages/home.aspx http://almasreyeenalahrrar.org/ There is a lot of action on the ground, visiting governorates etc. The country is not overcome with demonstrations. Tahrir just gets busy on a Friday!
Well first of all thank you for the links although they are all in Arabic. Can you read Arabic that well - because I can't!!!
Secondly I wonder why all these activity wouldn't be made public at least to the Egyptians. They have the right and need to know what's happening.
IMHO everybody seems to do something - BUT JUST NOT TOGETHER.
Have a great weekend.
Posted by Dzosser (Member # 9572) on :
What rose colored glasses ? We're experiencing a day to day situation in a transitional stage towards a true democracy (I hope )
We aren't yet ready to govern and rule in a civilized democratic fashion, that's coz we've been never trained or given the chance throughout something like 60 years, ever since the Nasser regime came to power in 1952, leading Egypt towards what it became nowadays, we reap what we sow.
People revolted because they'd had enough, a populaton of over 80 million is bound to come up with at least a few million (Tahrir youths and likes) who'd ask for an immediate reform..something that's not done by simply pushing a button, meanwhile a few thousands, if not millions (thugs or whatever) are doing a great job minding their business (vandalism), there's always a price to pay if we want a true democracy, as 'some' don't want order to prevail, as simple as that.
TL may come visit while we're in the kitchen, if she wants..tourism has dropped to 17%, due to the mess we're in. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: If you are prepared to still come on holiday what makes you think millions of others who know Egypt already wont still come? I don't know anyone who lives here or who is regular visitor that has gone home or canceled their plans, even when the planes were canceled people still found a way to get here.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT, AYISHA. I know what to expect, I am not worried. I lived in Egypt for three years, I still come back and back again on vacation.
and so are millions of others.
quote:You know I had my neighbor asking me two weeks ago when I mentioned I am happy to go off to Egypt soon if I am not concerned?
The same happened to me with two American ladies residing overseas here in Germany. They can't believe I am going - with children. They are actually concerned for my kiddies. I just tried to explain to them that we are going to the Red Sea and it's quiet there.
I was asked by security in Birmingham airport if I wasn't concerned about going to Luxor after the Taba bombing, I reminded him there had been 2 bombs in Birmingham and a few in London at around the same time, so it was safer in Luxor than UK at that time. Of course people are concerned when they're getting the hyped up news of a few isolated incidents and not the actual facts of the whole.
quote:But that's how normal people view Egypt right now: PROBLEMATIC. And every new news report about sectarian violence and unpeaceful demonstrations on the street just further confirms their opinion.
see above regarding the news reporting, the hyped media about isolated incidents. This is a huge country, these incidents are not happening over the whole country, it's a shame your 'normal' people don't have the ability to see that and just like my security officer in bomb ridden UK didn't see it was safer in Luxor than in the airport stood next to him in Birmingham. Not all 'normal' people should be reading the Daily Mail.
quote:And you deliberately avoided the links I posted in regards how much Egyptian tourism is down in the loo right now. No prob.
I didn't deliberately avoid anything, although I did post about this not being as bad as made out a few days ago, which I don't think you commented on either.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Lemme see who shall I believe TigerLilly or people who actually live in Egypt (Dzosser, Dalia, Ayisha, Citizen, Cheeky, Shanta, Mrs. Hassan).
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: you need to come up with something more than that. I am still interested about the imaginative 'aid packages'.
I don't need to come up with anything. You want to suggest I'm making things up, be my guest. *shrugs shoulders*
My point was that not everyone sees the situation in East Germany the way you see it. You obviously feel that the living standards were great there, others felt differently, be it in regards to freedom or to things like clothes, food items, or consumer goods.
Your line of logic is that because East Germany was rich enough that people could send aid packages to other socialist countries, the conditions for change were better than they are in Egypt right now. This logic is faulty, and it doesn't hide the fact that you are applying double standards – what's ok for Germany is not ok for Egypt.
Shanta brought up a good point – that bringing about major changes in a society takes time, and that there were many difficulties facing German society after the reunification, just like there are difficulties in Egypt after the revolution.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
And just for the record, I was talking to a good friend last night (a supporter of the revolution and not an expat) whose own good friend was heavily involved in Jan 25th and he told me that some of the Jan 25th folk are trying to shut people up 'just for the time being' - he turned round to his friend and told him 'Now you've lost me'. Animal Farmanyone?
It's important that EVERYONE continues to speak NOW before elections, and AFTERWARDS.
In case you forgot, Friday here is the normal weekly day off as is Sunday in the UK and much of Europe. In London on Sundays, people often go down to Hyde Park - Speakers' Corner and listen to people speaking their mind on anything that takes their fancy.
As to the remark that 'Shanta and the others better find somewhere else for their retirement' - this isn't about us. As expats we DO have the option to go elsewhere if we don't like it - though much more difficult for some than others, not so for many Egyptians here. Yes, maybe most of us did have a good life under Mubarak, but many Egyptians didn't.
One of my Egyptian friends was telling me a not-untypical story about her niece and niece's husband who sank their life-savings into opening a new restaurant up in the Delta investing in new equipment, new furniture everything. It became very popular within a few weeks, and so the greedy Governor of that region turned up and started demanding backsheesh. Suffice to say they couldn't pay it and the restaurant was closed, losing them everything.
Unfortunately this kind of thing was normal for many Egyptians trying to be entrepreneurs.
Scientific research carried out which could have been used to better society - farming methods and the like - was shelved because there was no backsheesh in it for those with the power to say yay or nay.
What was the point for many in working hard (though my experience of Egyptians is that they are **extremely** hard-workers even if it is a bit mis-directed sometimes) or making a good job of things if no matter how well you did, unless you knew the right person you wouldn't get credit or reward for it?
Yes, some people did very well under the regime AND BY MERIT and THEIR OWN WORTH, but others did not.
It's a tremendous change in society that has to be made here, and it's like stopping a huge train - can't be done instantly. Ok, apply the brakes, but that train will carry on for a couple of km before it comes to a halt.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: you need to come up with something more than that. I am still interested about the imaginative 'aid packages'.
I don't need to come up with anything. You want to suggest I'm making things up, be my guest. *shrugs shoulders*
My point was that not everyone sees the situation in East Germany the way you see it. You obviously feel that the living standards were great there, others felt differently, be it in regards to freedom or to things like clothes, food items, or consumer goods.
Of course we lived good. We lived much better than millions of German living right now!!!
We all had affordable apartments to live in, clean environment, good food, free education, work for all (unemployment was unheard of), free healthcare, affordable childcare, playgrounds, discos.... believe it or not but people in East Germany were not dead and they knew how to have a good time.
We produced successful scientists, athletes, artists you name it. We had everything expect freedom to travel (only to several countries - socialistic of course and f.e. we sent our workers also off to Egypt) and exotic fruits.... and I do remember my mom did complain about the horrible coffee in East Germany lol.
And really if you didn't open up your mouth and spoke against the current government you were well off - which would fall under the term restricted freedom of speech.
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Your line of logic is that because East Germany was rich enough that people could send aid packages to other socialist countries, the conditions for change were better than they are in Egypt right now. This logic is faulty, and it doesn't hide the fact that you are applying double standards – what's ok for Germany is not ok for Egypt.
But East Germany had way more positive factors working for its own progress for change than Egypt does right now!! And I pointed them all out yesterday.
And I am not applying double standards as you claim - I tell how it is.
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Shanta brought up a good point – that bringing about major changes in a society takes time,
I think we can all agree about that - I even said so already in February right here on this forum. It's not a new thought.
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
and that there were many difficulties facing German society after the reunification, just like there are difficulties in Egypt after the revolution.
Yeah but really can't compare both countries.
But if you want to do - Egypt is way worse off imho. Among other things I pointed out yesterday already it's also the fact that the country is heavily overpopulated. I posted the numbers back in February on here and I can do it again. It doesn't look good. Even the most democratic government will not be able to deal with this dilemma.
But what I am saying it's like you are all closing your blinds, you don't want to hear about it.
And if you want to keep talking about East Germany do so, I don't mind, I am willing to answer all questions you may have - but perhaps on another thread.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Naguib Sawiris says Egypt's priorities should be restoring stability and reviving the economy
Ahram Online, Thursday 26 May 2011
Naguib Sawiris, one of Egypt’s leading businessmen and up and coming politicians, has announced that he will not join Friday’s protests which are set to launch the “second revolution of anger.”
Sawiris, head of the newly established “Free Egyptians” party, says that Egypt needs stability now and should focus on increasing the country’s production and preventing the economy from collapsing.
During a meeting at Al Jazeera Sport Club yesterday evening, Sawiris hailed the Egyptian revolution for helping Egyptians regain their freedom and dignity. However, he warned that million man marches like the one planned for Friday will only cause tension between the people and the army. He said the army is the protector of the people and if anything happened to it, it would be a disaster for the country.
Sawiris pointed out that Egyptians should now focus on restoring the factory production cycle and helping revive the tourism industry. He added that Egyptian, Arab and Western investors would not be able to help Egypt’s economy recover as long as the country is unstable.
He also said that it was wrong to accuse all of the country’s businessmen of wrongdoing, adding that many are honourable people who helped create jobs for Egyptians, insisting that the private sector will be vital in reviving Egypt’s ailing economy.
Sawiris also rejected the idea of progressive taxes on those with high incomes, saying the idea may work in the future but at the moment investors need incentives that encourage them to invest in the country.
The businessman also brushed away reports that he may transfer his business overseas, saying he is proud of being Egyptian and would not live in any other country.
He also urged the country’s Copts to participate in the next parliamentary elections, whether they are held in September or postponed. He said elections should indeed be postponed in order to help newly formed political parties prepare for them.
Sawiris added that Egyptians are one people and there are no differences between Muslims and Christians. However, he asked that a law be passed that bans protests in front of houses of worship.
The man is right!!!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Plans for Friday protest highlight political divides
Disagreements between revolutionary groups over protests planned for Friday reveal division between groups that took part in the recent 18-day uprising.
While some groups say the protests on Friday should be the start of a “second revolution,” others say the protests are unnecessary and refuse to participate....
shadihamid Shadi Hamid #Egypt's liberals seem to be doing alot of 'confronting the military.' Not sure this is the best strategy for winning in September.
cairowire نشرة القاهرة RT @moftasa From several tweets at least 3 different incidents of arrests of activists distributing flyers or pasting posters for #may27.
bloggingegypt Sallie Pisch I'm all for freedom of speech, but on the surface it looks like they were trying to incite the military (not justifying the arrests)
LaurenBohn Lauren E. Bohn Tlking to @ahmadfahmy abt pol mobilization in #Egypt: "There is none. Most revolutionaries complain, tweet, and appear on news channels."
NohaSalah NoOoOos @Zeinobia Many ppl are participating and intending to confront the army..they want it anothe jan 28th!
NohaSalah NoOoOos by Zeinobia @Zeinobia Arrogance of revolutionaries is what will KILL this revolution! #egypt #may27 #jan25 #tahrir
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But please give me the opinion of Shanta and Ayisha any day and everyday over cherry picking cut and paste posts. At least they don't have to resort to sensationalized cut and paste article, at least they share first hand experience. At least they can share the POV from their end, living in the Cairo and Luxor. At least they can share what their neighbors, friends, etc are feeling.
We can all read the news. A week or so ago I read about a reformist Muslim Brotherhood member advocating Christians converting to Islam and vice versa, as free will (article:http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/439184) We can all cut and paste article to our own cherry picking liking.
I also read in the upcoming elections Muslim Brother are only contesting 45-50% of parliamentary seats. (article: http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=218531) This all but makes it impossible for Islamist to have a majority in parliament. Even with Salafi and other Muslim groups vying for seats.
But you have fear-mongers here, who are probably miserable in their own existence and extending their misery to every channel they know.
Fact > Copy and Paste
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
@TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)! Our Polish member was here a few weeks ago and very interesting to compare her views on what she was hearing here about Egypt and what happened in Poland in the aftermath of their revolution following 45 years of dictatorship with parties forming and dissolving rapidly, people all with different opinions about what should happen next.
I do wish people would stop fearmongering too. The other day I spent no less than 4 hours travelling across Cairo from 6th October, Haram, Mdinent Nasr, Heliopolis on a variety of buses and microbuses and, as ever, was met with nothing but helpful kind people (and witnessing helpful kind acts to each other, not just talking about to me now). No looks, no stares, no harassment, nobody mugged me, nobody had burgled my flat when I got home (nor did they the night last week I accidentally left the back door open). Sure, last week I got some looks, but that was because I put my hair in 'viking braids' and was a bit self-conscious about it. Hair back to normal this week and ZERO attention again.
Naturally people have worries and uncertainties, and some work is stopped and it's worrying for those employed eg where big company owners are being investigated for dodgy dealings and others like Vodafone which are using the revolution as an excuse to lay off loads of workers. But electricity is still arriving (and so are the bills!), the phones are still working (well most of the time anyway!), the transport systems are functioning, stocks are getting to the shops so delivery systems are working. Police are out on the streets, and on Monday when I was out, the microbus drivers were all being hauled over on the Ring Road to have their permits etc checked (yes I do know because I was sat in the front of the mbus when we were pulled over), AND they were all (and I noted taxi drivers alongside) obviously worried enough about the police to pull their seatbelts on. school inspectorates are still working, the schools are open (albeit end of school year soon!)
Egypt had a very small crime rate before, and now it's a bit bigger, the problem is people talk in percentages which can give a totally false impression. OK crime might be up 200% but if you had 1 crime now you get 3 crimes - all the ones I have heard about (and I know, I don't get a full picture because of lack of Arabic etc) don't even amount to one busy crime week in London.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: @TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)! Our Polish member was here a few weeks ago and very interesting to compare her views on what she was hearing here about Egypt and what happened in Poland in the aftermath of their revolution following 45 years of dictatorship with parties forming and dissolving rapidly, people all with different opinions about what should happen next.
I do wish people would stop fearmongering too. The other day I spent no less than 4 hours travelling across Cairo from 6th October, Haram, Mdinent Nasr, Heliopolis on a variety of buses and microbuses and, as ever, was met with nothing but helpful kind people (and witnessing helpful kind acts to each other, not just talking about to me now). No looks, no stares, no harassment, nobody mugged me, nobody had burgled my flat when I got home (nor did they the night last week I accidentally left the back door open). Sure, last week I got some looks, but that was because I put my hair in 'viking braids' and was a bit self-conscious about it. Hair back to normal this week and ZERO attention again.
Naturally people have worries and uncertainties, and some work is stopped and it's worrying for those employed eg where big company owners are being investigated for dodgy dealings and others like Vodafone which are using the revolution as an excuse to lay off loads of workers. But electricity is still arriving (and so are the bills!), the phones are still working (well most of the time anyway!), the transport systems are functioning, stocks are getting to the shops so delivery systems are working. Police are out on the streets, and on Monday when I was out, the microbus drivers were all being hauled over on the Ring Road to have their permits etc checked (yes I do know because I was sat in the front of the mbus when we were pulled over), AND they were all (and I noted taxi drivers alongside) obviously worried enough about the police to pull their seatbelts on. school inspectorates are still working, the schools are open (albeit end of school year soon!)
Egypt had a very small crime rate before, and now it's a bit bigger, the problem is people talk in percentages which can give a totally false impression. OK crime might be up 200% but if you had 1 crime now you get 3 crimes - all the ones I have heard about (and I know, I don't get a full picture because of lack of Arabic etc) don't even amount to one busy crime week in London.
Excellent Post!
I would like to bring attention to this trip across town, that this western blondie took:
quote:I do wish people would stop fearmongering too. The other day I spent no less than 4 hours travelling across Cairo from 6th October, Haram, Mdinent Nasr, Heliopolis on a variety of buses and microbuses and, as ever, was met with nothing but helpful kind people (and witnessing helpful kind acts to each other, not just talking about to me now). No looks, no stares, no harassment, nobody mugged me, nobody had burgled my flat when I got home (nor did they the night last week I accidentally left the back door open). Sure, last week I got some looks, but that was because I put my hair in 'viking braids' and was a bit self-conscious about it. Hair back to normal this week and ZERO attention again.
This blondie british lady went from 6th of October (outskirts of Cairo) across all of Cairo in Public Transportation. Not just any public transportation but microbuses, she was hip to hip with all classes of Egyptian society including the poorest.
Just think about that for a second, a western woman traveling across town in public transportation, going to her destination and going back home. That is fact, that is normal.
On the opposite spectrum is Tigerlilly cut and pastes that portray Egypt in a very negative light. Such fear-mongering as Egypt is engulfed with crime, islamist harliners are taking over. This lady does not live in Egypt, hasn't lived there in over a decade, yet thinks she knows about Egypt more than the people who live there. Goes as far as to ridicule them accusing them of having "rose colored glasses", when reality is she is a fear-monger, and her BS is easily debunked.
Take your fear-mongering hatred elsewhere tigerlilly. You have been exposed.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled:
she was hip to hip with all classes of Egyptian society including the poorest. [/QB]
yep, I was!! nothing like being squashed up on a 'jolly green giant' bus to be 'hip to hip' with the Egyptian people LOL
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Army not going to be present at the Friday protests "In the statement, the SCAF also noted that the armed forces would not to be present in the area of the protests in order to avoid the risk of any attempts to drive a wedge between the armed forces and the people. It said the role of the armed forces would be limited to securing major locations against security threats."
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Wow, some powerful posts there Shanta, *Like* buttons all the way..
Things here are still all functioning as normal, the ac man due at 12 today still hasn't arrived, power cuts still happening as normal although the west bank do get more, they have to light up that mountain of VOK somehow, but that's always been like that.
People are still helpful as always, caleche men still a pain.
I sat tonight having a coffee outside the restaurant I used to work at but at it's new position where a few more English style restaurants are, and Arkwrights shop, and there were a few tourists about but it's hot now so there will be less anyway. always is in summer here.
The point you mentioned about governors wanting their piece of businesses, same here, thousands that little creep Samir Ferag had and glad he's gone, maybe businesses will have a chance now without all the backsheesh that ruins them. Luxor had an olympic sized public swimming pool, the bastage sold it off to Mamdour Phillip for his fecking hotel so now no public pool although we were promised a new one. On paper he sold it for pennies, in reality he pocketed thousandssssssssssssss.
ggrrr
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
Worried tourists turn backs on Egypt
Financial Times By Heba Saleh in Cairo
Published: May 26 2011 19:12 | Last updated: May 26 2011 19:12
Excerpts:
"...The decline this time has been huge,” said Elhamy El Zayat, chairman of the Egyptian Tourism Federation.
“This is worst we have ever witnessed. It is a bigger drop than after the September 11 attacks.”
Makes you wonder.... Perhaps Mr. Zayat is incompetent for the job or needs new glasses? He seriously should consult with Ayisha as she knows best. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Just saying what I SEE Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???
I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not.
Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.
Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just saying what I SEE
I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.' Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just saying what I SEE
I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.'
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.
Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???
I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not.
Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.
Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I would like to bring attention to this trip across town, that this western blondie took:....."
Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.
And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?
If I told you I used one of the busses before and had a bad experience you wouldn't believe me either and declare my claim as
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Take your fear-mongering hatred elsewhere tigerlilly. You have been exposed.
That the guy waited until all passengers were out and drove around with me and my little son in an for me unknown area and when I had enough and demanded to exit he kept the door closed and wanted a payment of 100 LE this can't be true, right?
Because Egyptians are so nice and helpful, all of them, right. Perhaps I made this experience because I wasn't a blondie. Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just saying what I SEE
I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.'
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.
Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.
No problem Ayisha. I realize you want to stay positive about your life in Egypt. You don't want to hear the bad. You should have just stated so in the beginning.
You say this and Egyptian government officials say that. In the end of the day you have to live there. You have to deal with everything what's going on right now and what will happen in the future.
But if you call me a 'scaremonger' I call you just delusional.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???
I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not.
Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.
Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.
camel boy???? WTF is wrong with you TL? What's with all the personal abuse lately? Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: @TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)!
What a nonsense. Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people. That's what I stated right after Mubarak stepped down in middle of February.
And under Mubarak people knew what they are having and what they are able to get. Most Egyptians are know fully uncertain.
As for ElBaradei. You don't like him? Why not? Who do you personally want to see as new President?
IMHO Don't think ElBaradei will make it. Egyptians are more fond of Amr Moussa, you should know you live in Egypt, right?
As for you stating:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: It's just 4 months - 17 weeks - since the revolution started.
If you couldn't even grow a single whole baby in that time, how the heck do you suppose to change an entire society in that time?
Give it time!
As for the 'four months remark': Yeah it's been only a short time since the uprising.
The change just started but you wouldn't send an infant right off to college, now would you?
Small steps a a time and the protesters want everything right now, right in this minute. They are moaning and whining, typical Egyptian 'drama queens' lol.
Believe me lots of them are protesting because that's their new hobby. The feel the power of demonstations and the 'strong man factor'.
Just yesterday many of them handed out offensive flyers about the Armed Forces. They try to create friction between them and the soldiers so in case people getting hurt and even killed during protests again they can point fingers on the Army and say 'You are the bad ones. You need to go." That's why the Army said they won't protect people during today's protest.
Just don't think that all protesters are genuine in their efforts. Some of them climbed to stardom during the revolution, they became hungry for celebrity status, they became arrogant.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Just saying what I SEE
I take it as 'when I am wrong I just roll eyes on here.'
No I'm not wrong and I am saying what I see actually living here. The rolling eyes was for those who think the FT certainly know better than those living here when those living here have no particular agenda and the FT need to sell NEWS.
Really TL you believe whatever you wish, it makes no difference to the reality of it and as you prefer to scaremonger I and others living here will continue to post facts that we SEE.
No problem Ayisha. I realize you want to stay positive about your life in Egypt. You don't want to hear the bad. You should have just stated so in the beginning.
I don't mind hearing the bad, I have had bad experiences here as well as good, same as back in UK. Just putting my point across as a foreigner living in Luxor which is one of the most popular tourist places in Egypt. There are not masses of tourists granted, but they are here and they are coming. Sorry you don't want to hear a different side to those trying to sell news.
quote:You say this and Egyptian government officials say that. In the end of the day you have to live there. You have to deal with everything what's going on right now and what will happen in the future.
Yes I do live here and I am dealing with it WITH Egyptians on a daily basis.
quote:But if you call me a 'scaremonger' I call you just delusional.
you forgot to add ne ne ne ne ne
Posted by citizen (Member # 1344) on :
TL, we all know Egypt's problems. The revolution happened because people couldn't take any more. That's the point you're not getting. The whole system of rich and poor, repression, violence etc was unsustainable. Something had to happen. Now we have to work hard to make sure we rebuild a country like yours.
Of course the press reports the sensationalist stuff, trials, protests etc. Most news worldwide is bad news, isn't it? They don't report routine stuff like political meetings of fledgling parties.
There's a lot happening that you won't find on twitter or the news.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Tigerlily is cherry picking articles and even tweets. Desperately trying to come off as she knows what is going on in Egypt. Fact is she doesn't, she has proved this on numerous occasions with her cut and paste posts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Hmmmm you don't like the articles I post and you don't like the opinions what I have. What can we do about it???
I tell you what, camel boy, just ignore me and the stuff I do on here. It will make your life much more easier believe me. I mean it's already easy enough of not having to work for your whole life, right? Today is Friday, no work day, but for you EVERY DAY is Friday. WOWW.... not.
Don't tell me you care about Egyptians and about their suffering when you sit on the other side of the globe in some Asian country and dad pays for all your living expenses right down to the toilet paper you have to use. What kind of man, what kind of human being are you? No wonder they wanted you to go as far away from them as possible.
Really you are the last person who should judge and critize others as you have nothing accomplished in life, and you never will. And that's just the way you like it. LOSER.
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: I would like to bring attention to this trip across town, that this western blondie took:....."
Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.
who do you define as the 'ordinary foreign expat' to make a statement like that? So people who use buses are cheap now? Are your 'ordinary foreign expats' ones who have plenty of retirement money and assets, coz not all of us foreign expats have that, so we're not 'ordinary' in your book? There is a difference in an expat living here who never mixes with Egyptians, frequents the English clubs and the marriot and those who do live the life here the same way as most 'ordinary' Egyptians do.
quote:And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?
If I told you I used one of the busses before and had a bad experience you wouldn't believe me either and declare my claim as
quote:Originally posted by Exiiled: Take your fear-mongering hatred elsewhere tigerlilly. You have been exposed.
That the guy waited until all passengers were out and drove around with me and my little son in an for me unknown area and when I had enough and demanded to exit he kept the door closed and wanted a payment of 100 LE this can't be true, right?
so one bad experience and they are all the same right? I advice everyone never to use a butchers shop here then based on that twisted logic.
quote:Because Egyptians are so nice and helpful, all of them, right. Perhaps I made this experience because I wasn't a blondie.
something really not right about you lately! Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Ever thought of the idea that she is cheap? She documented about her living expenses in the first year of living in Egypt on her blog. And I can tell you this much - the ordinary foreign expat is not living like this.
I'd say it is entirely irrelevant *why* she takes microbusses, the discussion was about safety in Cairo.
In any case, there is a difference between being cheap and using your limited resources sensibly. 6th of October is far out, going there or coming back from there in a taxi can easily cost you 100 LE or more, depending on the traffic on the ring road, which is often bad.
I've been to 6th of October and back on microbusses many times, even very late at night. It's no big deal, and, no, microbusses are not seedy or disgusting, and people on there are usually helpful.
I take the Metro all the time – not for financial reasons but because it gets me from Maadi to downtown or Heliopolis much faster than a car. It's reliable, clean and safe. And I'm not the only foreigner using it.
As for the "ordinary foreign expat" – not every foreign expat here is rich and lives in a $3000 apartment, driving an SUV and employing a maid, cook etc. There are many on local salaries or on salaries that would be low/medium range by European standards who have to keep an eye on their expenses.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: And if she likes to use seedy microbuses for the purpose of transportation and she has enough time on her hand why not?
When you're stuck in Cairo traffic, it does not matter whether you're in a microbus or in a car … it will take the same time. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people.
The change just started but you wouldn't send an infant right off to college, now would you?
Small steps a a time and the protesters want everything right now, right in this minute.
"could" have been smoother if the entire LOT weren't as corrupt as babaMu
yes the infant needs to GROW and find his feet, not easy when it's been used to someone chopping his legs off for 60 years.
No they don't want everything right now, they want to be HEARD, they want things STARTING on a footing they can TRUST with people they feel they can trust for a change and they want that to start BEFORE they elect anyone else as they don't want to have another dictator replace the last one.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr:
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: @TL - it's not that we're pulling down the blinds on it, but on the one hand you know (as everyone does and no, it wasn't a new thought) that this will take a lot of time and on the other hand you are slamming the whole thing and wishing Mubarak back because it isn't all tidily sorted out in 4 months (with your hero ElBaradi being ridden into power on the backs of the revolutionaries - shame he has to go through elections like anyone else)!
What a nonsense. Mubarak ain't coming back, the chapter is done but the whole transition period could have been way smoother for Egypt and it's people. That's what I stated right after Mubarak stepped down in middle of February.
And under Mubarak people knew what they are having and what they are able to get. Most Egyptians are know fully uncertain.
As for ElBaradei. You don't like him? Why not? Who do you personally want to see as new President?
IMHO Don't think ElBaradei will make it. Egyptians are more fond of Amr Moussa, you should know you live in Egypt, right?
I didn't comment as to whether I like ElBaradei or not, I just know that before the revolution YOU were all for him and since he didn't come riding in on his white charger to rescue a grateful nation, you have totally rejected everything.
I don't have a view on who should be president as yet because I don't know who all the candidates will be or what they will stand for. If I did have, I wouldn't state it publicly. It is for Egyptians to decide, not me.
I don't see how the transition could have been done any more smoothly unless one dictatorship was substituted directly with another.
Oh - and so maybe I live more cheaply than other foreign expats, I know I live less cheaply than other expats. We're not all oil-company employees you know!
As to why I go on the buses etc, a lot of expats live in prisons of fear of their own making, doing nothing but rubbishing Egyptians and cranking themselves up into hysterical states precisely because they read the bad news and don't actually get out and experience it for themselves.
Bad experiences happen across the globe and Egypt is still a lot safer than many other countries. The way you go on though, you would think that there is zero crime in Germany or Europe or the US or UK or wherever.
I have been burgled in the UK, also caught a burglar trying to break into my home through a bedroom window, I was off sick that day and lying in bed when I saw the hand coming in. I have been mugged and assaulted (the worst kind) in the UK. Saturday nights, I ran the gamut of drunken young men - usually relatively highly paid City types - roaming round in cars screaming sexual abuse. Minicab (illegal taxi drivers) drive off and assault passengers who were daft enough or ignorant enough to use them. Harassment in the workplace does exist and despite all the high-falutin' 'Harassment Policies' what actually happens is the junior has to leave and the senior gets barely a slap on the wrist. I've seen it happen too many times and helped one girl fight her case by advising her to document everything so the company HAD to do something instead of dismissing things as 'personality clash'.
When I was living in Germany, the men used to go into the hedges in the Kurpark or near the public swimming pools and wank themselves off at passing teenage girls - we all saw them and learn the smell of spunk - can't abide the smell of celery seed ever since. Two of my friends were kidnapped by guys on motorbikes in the Munich area and held for a few hours. And I just remembered a male friend of mine was seriously sexually assaulted by a well-known at the time male classical singer at the hotel we worked in, in Germany.
Tourists to Florida get shot the first night (google it, I can't be assd), mugged.
I don't know why we waste effort debating with you as you are 100% completely negative about the whole thing. As in any major corporate change - there are the 20% all for it, the 60% 'maybe we'll see' and the 20% who will never ever be fore it so don't expend any management effort on trying to convince those because you never will, spend your time on the 60%. (%s might be slightly different, but can't be bothered to google it right now).
Right, that's my input for the day and probably for the next week!
I'm just hoping today's demo is relatively peaceful because I know a lot of Egyptians are worried about it.
Posted by Mrs Hassan (Member # 15069) on :
@TL.. You having a bad day or what?? The comments and insults your throwing a people are not needed. Plus i dont understand why your coming to egypt on holiday, with all the negative comments your writing... it definately does not help promote egypt! Also why not write about your good experiences rather than the bad... its good to know them too... I read the media too, I see the comments, I watch the T.V, see the reports on crime etc.but if I spent my days worrying about it, not getting on with my life and trying to make a change to Egypt.. hell i would be just as bitter and twisted as you seem to be lately.
Posted by Exiiled (Member # 17278) on :
@tigerlilly – everyone is entitled to an opinion and when your fearmongering contradicts the realities on the ground do expect a rebuke. Let's not kid ourselves though, something hasn't been right with you for some time. I'm not the only one to take notice.
Posted by *Dalia* (Member # 13012) on :
Thanks for a reasonable response.
quote:Of course we lived good. We lived much better than millions of German living right now!!!
We all had affordable apartments to live in, clean environment, good food, free education, work for all (unemployment was unheard of), free healthcare, affordable childcare, playgrounds, discos.... believe it or not but people in East Germany were not dead and they knew how to have a good time.
We produced successful scientists, athletes, artists you name it. We had everything expect freedom to travel (only to several countries - socialistic of course and f.e. we sent our workers also off to Egypt) and exotic fruits.... and I do remember my mom did complain about the horrible coffee in East Germany lol.
Yes, I am well aware of that.
My point is: Despite the fact that many things were good in East Germany, despite the fact that people were in general quite educated, not starving, had a healthcare and childcare system etc. pp.; despite the fact that their situation in general, as you pointed out, was definitely better than the situation of the Egyptian people – despite all this, there had always been people who found the system so unbearable that they risked their lifes to escape it, and not few died doing so. And despite all this, the people in East Germany were fed up with their system to the point that masses took to the streets.
So when you say Egyptians shouldn't have had a revolution because under Mubarak they had "stability", then, judging by your logic, the East German people should not have taken to the streets either since their situation wasn't really that bad.
That's what I perceive as a double standard. I just don't understand the logic behind it.
quote:And really if you didn't open up your mouth and spoke against the current government you were well off - which would fall under the term restricted freedom of speech.
Exactly. Just like in Egypt under Mubarak, there was a certain class in East Germany who lived very well. Just like in Mubarak's Egypt there was a system of corruption, of people abusing the system, of people spying on each other, of police brutality and of people being killed because they were against the system.
So again – if I apply what you say about the Egyptian people to the situation in the GDR, then people should have just tolerated the bad things and kept everything as it was.
quote:But if you want to do - Egypt is way worse off imho. Among other things I pointed out yesterday already it's also the fact that the country is heavily overpopulated. I posted the numbers back in February on here and I can do it again. It doesn't look good. Even the most democratic government will not be able to deal with this dilemma.
Yes, of course Egypt is way worse off, and there are serious problems that need to be dealt with. Nobody here is denying that, quite the opposite. The point is that those problems would not have gotten better had Mubarak stayed in power and that it will take time to implement positive changes.
quote:But what I am saying it's like you are all closing your blinds, you don't want to hear about it.
Sometimes I am wondering if we are reading the same board. I don't have the impression that any of the people living here who have posted on this thread are closing their eyes to the problems in Egypt. All those posters, me included, have often criticized many things about it.
What we are objecting to is your insistence that there exists only one version of the truth, and that this is the one you are getting from the news. Believe it or not, we are following the news as well, but we are also talking to Egyptians on a daily basis and observing the situation here. It would be more beneficial to the whole discussion if all of us acknowledged that everyone's POV is just one aspect of the truth, and that in order to see the whole picture we have to take all those observations into consideration.
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Apparently stuff has kicked off in Tahrir today but I don't know what. Just checking the news sources - not got tv right now!
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
Can't find anything in English - if anyone knows enough arabic and is willing to check twitter and dostor etc, please let us know what's going down!
One tweet in English from @Lilianwagdy:
"Can we plz mobilize for next Friday starting from now. I don't ever wanna see #Tahrir in the mess I've seen it in today"
Posted by Shanta Gdeeda (Member # 9889) on :
I'd say enough is enough, no more demos please. I know a few hundreds don't disrupt work, etc, but it's not about actual disruption but about the perception of uncertainty, instability and lack of control that such actions raise.
Let us have an election as soon as possilbe, and as long as it is a fair election then whoever wins will be representative of the people and will have the mandate to govern and write a new constitution. I don't think any single party or political directoin will have an overall majority. We need to get the military out of power ASAP, not that I don't turst them, but it's just that it's not their job. As someone said on telly, they're ruling with a shakey hand. You do feel that they don't quite know what they want or have to do. Enough is enough!
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: Further info on today's demos:
I'd say enough is enough, no more demos please. I know a few hundreds don't disrupt work, etc, but it's not about actual disruption but about the perception of uncertainty, instability and lack of control that such actions raise.
Let us have an election as soon as possilbe, and as long as it is a fair election then whoever wins will be representative of the people and will have the mandate to govern and write a new constitution. I don't think any single party or political directoin will have an overall majority. We need to get the military out of power ASAP, not that I don't turst them, but it's just that it's not their job. As someone said on telly, they're ruling with a shakey hand. You do feel that they don't quite know what they want or have to do. Enough is enough!
Alf shukr, alf shukr for your comment. I am relieved to hear such words coming out of the mouth of an Egyptian (online as well). That's what I've been saying all along.
Freedom and democracy sound good but what the Egyptians actually really want is to bring back their economy right now. This won't happen if foreigners stay away out of fear of instability etc.
I returned from Hurghada last night, yeah business is going on, but not a lot of tourists for this time of the year. Everybody is complaining, everybody. And it doesn't look like the situation will change within the next few months.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
In the early days of the January 25 revolution, policemen were suddenly withdrawn from police stations on January 28, resulting in a state of unrest and chaos prevailing in Egypt with thugs and criminals benefiting from the security vacuum. In April, gunmen abducted Zeina Effat el-Sadat, the 12-year-old grandniece of the late Egyptian leader Anwar el-Sadat. But they released her nearly 24 hours later after $5 million ransom was paid by her family. There has been a surge in violence over the past weeks. In the aftermath of the January 25 revolution, there have been 40 incidents of kidnapping recorded, according to statistics on this crime compiled by the Public Security Department, which is affiliated to the Ministry of the Interior. General Sayyed Shafiq, the Deputy Director of Public Security's Central Zone, has claimed that “police officers have succeeded in recovering all of the kidnapped children. These cases of kidnapping are rife because of the chaos that Egyptians are suffering nowadays.” Shafiq added: “In some incidents, when a girl has disappeared in an apparent kidnapping, she had secretly agreed with a boyfriend to extort money from her father by demanding a ransom for her return.” According to him, most of the kidnappers have no criminal records. However, Ahmed Magdi Hegazi, a professor of sociology, told the semi-official Al-Ahram newspapaer: “Escaped prisoners, outlaws and thugs have spread fear and alarm in society [since 28 January] and have kidnapped children, aspiring to get money through the ransoms.” He added that in most cases, children were being kidnapped to be used in criminal gangs, such as beggars, thieves or drug dealers, or for sexual exploitation including prostitution. Hegazi stressed that parents are responsible for looking after their children: “They should not leave their children unattended.” A Public Security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, disclosed that most kidnapping cases occur in Greater Cairo governorates. The kidnappers, he continued, focus on wealthy figures and in the majority of cases they either have some kind of relationship with the victim's parents or are their relatives. Parents must not be overconfident in others.
"Nineteen Egyptians who died during the 25 January revolution were buried on Thursday after efforts to identify them failed.
Hundreds participated in funeral prayers at Sayyed Nafisa mosque in Cairo before the unidentified bodies were buried at the neighboring al-Imam al-Shaf’ey graveyard....."
It’s Time to Debunk the Many Myths of the Egyptian Revolution
Written by Sarah Grebowski
Egyptians appreciate the attention they’re getting these days. They take great pride in their revolution, which is portrayed in the international media as being not just inspirational, but classy. It was swift, peaceful, and led by a generation of technology-savvy activists, so the narrative goes. This exemplary revolution has earned Egyptians a new platform with which to provide leadership in regional and international affairs. But with this platform, Egyptians would like you to know a few things. In fact, a desire to debunk conventional knowledge about Egypt’s revolution has become commonplace in statements from activists and academics alike.
Firstly, the Egyptian revolution was not sudden or unexpected, but was the culmination of more than a decade of popular struggle. New theories emerging from academics like Dina Shehata from the Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies- and backed by prominent activists- explain that the protests the world saw on January 25th in Egypt actually began in 2000 with the second Palestinian intifada. An organization called the Popular Committee for the Support of the Palestinian Intifada provided a new model for activism characterized by street protests with pro-democracy demands led by a new generation of activists who came from a variety of ideological backgrounds but were uniformly jaded by formal politics. This new trend of action was then recycled to animate campaigns such as Kifaya, the April 6th Youth Movement, the National Association for Change (the campaign backing Mohamed ElBaradei), and finally the January 25th protests.
This is not to say that protests grew and grew, exploding in early 2011- in fact, momentum waned significantly throughout this evolution. But the Egyptian revolution did not “come out of nowhere,” as the world seems to believe.
Secondly, what happened in Egypt was not merely a “Facebook” revolution, nor one of young activists. It was the participation of Egypt’s subaltern- lower class segments of society who are excluded from power structures and are certainly not plugged into the internet- that truly boosted the revolution’s momentum. Rabab El Mahdi from the American University in Cairo explains that these people not only amplified the size and scope of protests but also contributed important revolutionary know-how to them, for example tactics in dealing with the riot police. Let’s face it- internet gurus did not lead the charge on January 28th, picking up tear gas canisters and chucking them back at the riot police, building effective barricades to defend Tahrir Square, or halting ambulances that were carrying ammunition to Mubarak’s forces.
Furthermore, the actual fall of Mubarak can be attributed to the millions of workers who went on strike during the last few days of the revolution. It was they who tipped the scale of collective action in Egypt, prompting the military to force Mr. Mubarak out.
Along similar lines, the revolution was not peaceful. Protesters fired RPGs at a police station in the Northern Sinai and burned others to the ground. Hossam el-Hamalawy, Egypt’s best known activist, explained in a recent talk that although some Egyptian protesters chanted “silmiyya,” meaning “peaceful,” others threw rocks and molotov cocktails at the police. Some did both simultaneously. In el-Hamalawy’s words, “This [the revolution] was not a dinner party… People died.” Activists’ assertion that the revolution was indeed violent is in part a reaction to rather obtuse claims from Western media outlets and academics that political scientist Gene Sharp’s theories of nonviolent resistance inspired Egyptian strategies of mobilization.
Lastly, the revolution is not over. What Egyptians have achieved is to disassemble the country’s old order (or perhaps, to borrow a phrase from Steve Heydemann from the U.S. Institute of Peace, simply “decapitated” it). It’s clear from unmet demands and the subsequently continued presence of protesters in Tahrir Square that the Egyptian revolution has not yet brought about revolutionary change. Citizens are quite aware that the Supreme Council of Armed Forces, currently managing Egypt’s transition, is no less authoritarian than the Mubarak regime. Overthrowing Mubarak was in reality the first step in a much longer-term, fluid, and transformational process.
Democracy should be not assumed as the end goal of this process. If Egyptians are to establish a functional democracy- an elusive goal, as democratization is an open-ended pursuit- it will take much time and many setbacks.
Much of the world sees Egypt’s revolution through rose colored glasses. While uplifting portrayals of the event are flattering, they can also prove reductionist. In the authoritative words of Hossam el-Hamalawy himself, the notion of a spontaneous, youth-led uprising that brought democracy to Egypt via Facebook and Twitter is actually quite insulting. It diminishes the real struggle of the Egyptian people, to which there is no happy ending in sight.
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