Originally posted by Djehuti:
Even the Arab man above despite his light complexion displays hints of black ancestry
quote:Some, like Miss Dana have been claiming recently that the Arabs of Muhammad's time were Negroid.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
I wonder if people who say things like this realize that it is reported that the Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) said this:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
الله الله في أهل الذمة ، أهل المدرة السوداء السحم الجعاد فإن لهم نسبا وصهرا
quote:it sounds reasonable
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Also, while I may not agree with everything Dana says and whether or not Muhammad and his tribe were black, it is clear that black peoples were a component among Arabia's early population. And why not? Most of Arabia is in the tropics and it is right next to Africa.
Let's see you how you 'reason' everything I just stated above! [/QB]
quote:We are talking about Prophet Muhammad and what was predominant type of people in Mecca at the time. You are speaking of Adani here, of the North
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Indeed. The Arabs, even the non-black ones knew and accepted the fact that the Egyptians were blacks just as the ancient Israelites and other peoples of the Near East who wrote of the Egyptians millennia prior. There was no getting around it. The Egyptians black identity was as plain and common as the Greeks 'white' identity.
However, there was no getting around the fact of an aboriginal black presence in Arabia.
The Arabs themselves divide themselves into Qahtani Arabs of the south and Adnani Arabs of the north and acknowledge that the black Qahtani were the oldest of the Arab peoples, but that the Adnani mixed with many of them as they moved further south. The Bible even identifies black peoples just to the south of them in northern Arabia.
quote:Indeed. The Arabs, even the non-black ones knew and accepted the fact that the Egyptians were blacks just as the ancient Israelites and other peoples of the Near East who wrote of the Egyptians millennia prior. There was no getting around it. The Egyptians black identity was as plain and common as the Greeks 'white' identity.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
However Lyin'ass is simply taking Alwaad out of context, he is saying that the Arabs(Ishmaelites) are Relatives of Egyptians by Hagar and thus both were black "Kinky" haired populations.
Why does Lyingass Lie so much???
quote:Okay. I never said anything to the contrary. My only point was that blacks are still aboriginal to the Arabian lands. Also, it's interesting that you bring up patrilineage since the Qahtani were very different culturally especially in those regards of lineage. The Qahtani were traditionally matrilineal tracing descent from the mother. There were also many other customs of the Qahtani that are evidence of matriarchal or rather matrix type culture. This was very different from the Adnani patriarchy. Even the names of many tribes and clans in southern Arabia are feminine. And of course there are the various legends of Arabian sovereign queens who ruled on their own without men.
Originally posted by the lioness:
We are talking about Prophet Muhammad and what was predominant type of people in Mecca at the time. You are speaking of Adani here, of the North
According to Islamic tradition, the Islamic prophet Muhammad was descended from Adnan. The genealogy from Adnan to Muhammad comprises generations, and is considered certain. The following is the list of chiefs who are said to have ruled the Hejaz and to have been the patrilineal ancestors of Muhammad.
* 122 BC – Adnan (عدنان)
* 89 BC – Ma'add (معد)
* 56 BC – Nizar (نزار)
* 23 BC – Mudar (مضر)
* 10 AD – Elias (إلياس)
* 43 AD – Mudrikah (مدركة)
* 76 AD – Khuzaimah (خزيمة)
* 109 AD – Kinanah (كنانة)
* 142 AD – al-Nadr (النضر)
* 175 AD – Malik (مالك)
* 208 AD – Fihr (فهر)
* 241 AD – Ghalib (غالب)
* 274 AD – Luwaiy (لؤي)
* 307 AD – Ka'ab (كعب)
* 340 AD – Murrah (مرة)
* 373 AD – Kilab (كلاب)
* 406 AD – Qusai (قصي)
* 439 AD – Abd Manaf (عبد مناف)
* 472 AD – Hashim (هاشم)
* 505 AD – Abd al-Muttalib (عبد المطلب)
* 538 AD – Abd Allah (عبد الله)
* 570 AD – Muhammad (محمد)
quote:he doesn't have a light complexion
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Even the Arab man above despite his light complexion displays hints of black ancestry
quote:Yes - Lyin_ss - the Kana'anites are descendants of Adnan now do you get it. Or are you just trollin around again.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:We are talking about Prophet Muhammad and what was predominant type of people in Mecca at the time. You are speaking of Adani here, of the North
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Indeed. The Arabs, even the non-black ones knew and accepted the fact that the Egyptians were blacks just as the ancient Israelites and other peoples of the Near East who wrote of the Egyptians millennia prior. There was no getting around it. The Egyptians black identity was as plain and common as the Greeks 'white' identity.
However, there was no getting around the fact of an aboriginal black presence in Arabia.
The Arabs themselves divide themselves into Qahtani Arabs of the south and Adnani Arabs of the north and acknowledge that the black Qahtani were the oldest of the Arab peoples, but that the Adnani mixed with many of them as they moved further south. The Bible even identifies black peoples just to the south of them in northern Arabia.
According to Islamic tradition, the Islamic prophet Muhammad was descended from Adnan. The genealogy from Adnan to Muhammad comprises generations, and is considered certain. The following is the list of chiefs who are said to have ruled the Hejaz and to have been the patrilineal ancestors of Muhammad.
* 122 BC – Adnan (عدنان)
* 89 BC – Ma'add (معد)
* 56 BC – Nizar (نزار)
* 23 BC – Mudar (مضر)
* 10 AD – Elias (إلياس)
* 43 AD – Mudrikah (مدركة)
* 76 AD – Khuzaimah (خزيمة)
* 109 AD – Kinanah (كنانة)
* 142 AD – al-Nadr (النضر)
* 175 AD – Malik (مالك)
* 208 AD – Fihr (فهر)
* 241 AD – Ghalib (غالب)
* 274 AD – Luwaiy (لؤي)
* 307 AD – Ka'ab (كعب)
* 340 AD – Murrah (مرة)
* 373 AD – Kilab (كلاب)
* 406 AD – Qusai (قصي)
* 439 AD – Abd Manaf (عبد مناف)
* 472 AD – Hashim (هاشم)
* 505 AD – Abd al-Muttalib (عبد المطلب)
* 538 AD – Abd Allah (عبد الله)
* 570 AD – Muhammad (محمد)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:Your responses remind me of the Africans that said Richard Pryor looks Italian - LOL!. Now I understand where your coming from.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:files/Ross_photo_0009.jpg[/IMG]
Even the Arab man above despite his light complexion displays hints of black ancestry
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:why?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Africans and Eurasians are two different people...
It appears the brains of lyingass is boggled. Dana, perhaps it would be wise to ignore the twit troll.
quote:What's the matter Lyin - can't appreciate differences.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:why?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Africans and Eurasians are two different people...
quote:Actually - yes we should all do that. But I find it irresistable sometimes to make comment on idiotic commentary. I guess its just the bully in me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:yet your ass has been handed to you on a platter
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Actually - yes we should all do that. But I find it irresistable sometimes to make comment on idiotic commentary. I guess its just the bully in me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^
quote:If ur talking to me - if that were the case I'd be more than happy! Too many stretch marks nowadays. On the other hand I'm much of a meateater as Lyins are, and certainly no cannibal.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yet your ass has been handed to you on a platter
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Actually - yes we should all do that. But I find it irresistable sometimes to make comment on idiotic commentary. I guess its just the bully in me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^
quote:I'm sure if Tariq posted it than there is a reference for it - Lyin'. He has references for eeverything he posts. You should ask him about it - but since you don't speak Arabic I don't know how much it will help you.
Originally posted by the lioness:
dana,
did anybody ever post an attribution for this quote?:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:I'm sure if Tariq posted it than there is a reference for it - Lyin'. He has references for eeverything he posts. You should ask him about it - but since you don't speak Arabic I don't know how much it will help you.
Originally posted by the lioness:
dana,
did anybody ever post an attribution for this quote?:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
quote:right, as long as the information fits your agenda no need to check it
Originally posted by dana marniche:
I'm sure if Tariq posted it than there is a reference for it
quote:Why don't you check it yourself lyin' instead of posting parts of peoples responses and projecting themselves like sneaky Lyin'_sses do.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:I'm sure if Tariq posted it than there is a reference for it - Lyin'. He has references for eeverything he posts. You should ask him about it - but since you don't speak Arabic I don't know how much it will help you.
Originally posted by the lioness:
dana,
did anybody ever post an attribution for this quote?:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."quote:right, as long as the information fits your agenda no need to check it
Originally posted by dana marniche:
I'm sure if Tariq posted it than there is a reference for it
quote:Asking Lyin' _ss to have some integrity is like asking people on this forum to stop calling white people albinoes.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:I tried, for some reason it's hard to find.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
And don't change the subject - just prove the statement you copied from Tariq doesn't exist.
My agenda? Right ur Lyin' _ss. LOL! Keep projecting yourself onto others. [/QB]
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Serpentine one - your snake like zzzzzzzzz ways prohibit me from responding to you at a level to which you can rise.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I tried, for some reason it's hard to find.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
And don't change the subject - just prove the statement you copied from Tariq doesn't exist.
My agenda? Right ur Lyin' _ss. LOL! Keep projecting yourself onto others.
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
The people who had black skin and kinky were much earlier ancestors.
But the Egyptian didn't even have "black" skin like you see in the Egyptian art how they portrayed the Kushites. They had reddish brown skin.
Apparently you have no interest in finding this alleged hadith. I can see why
Sorry - until you answer the question Tariq asked of you nicely - "Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? ..."
you can not seriously expect me to lower myself to answer you.
I obviously can't respond to what no one said.Further more you obviously haven't looked at Tariq's site to see what is meant by black skinned in the language of the black men of Arabia.
Besides - you project your self and your intellectual laxity and laziness onto me again. Just like a Lyin'-snake.
quote:I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I tried, for some reason it's hard to find.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
And don't change the subject - just prove the statement you copied from Tariq doesn't exist.
My agenda? Right ur Lyin' _ss. LOL! Keep projecting yourself onto others.
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
The people who had black skin and kinky were much earlier ancestors.
But the Egyptian didn't even have "black" skin like you see in the Egyptian art how they portrayed the Kushites. They had reddish brown skin.
Apparently you have no interest in finding this alleged hadith. I can see why [/QB]
quote:to you and dana, sorry I didn't notice your comment in this thread until dana pointed it out
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
quote:This is unbelievable Dana.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Asking Lyin' _ss to have some integrity is like asking people on this forum to stop calling white people albinoes.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
Not going to happen - Tariq. This is what trollers do.
She will just twist your words like a low and sneaky snake. In fact that is what I am going to call her from now on Her Snakiness.
Certainly suits her better than Lioness.
quote:AGAIN:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:to you and dana, sorry I didn't notice your comment in this thread until dana pointed it out
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
Should I proceed when you have not attributed what hadith you claim that is from?
O.K. I'll do it anyway. I don't think you are acknowledging the basic logic of the quotation.
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
First we have to take note "people of Kemet" seem to be an interpretation. Anyway...
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
quote:Concerning People of Kemet, the hadith says أهل المدرة السوداء which means the people of the black soil. kemet [𓆎𓅓𓏏𓊖] (Coptic: kīmi), the "black land", a reference to the fertile black soil deposited by the Nile River.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:to you and dana, sorry I didn't notice your comment in this thread until dana pointed it out
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
Should I proceed when you have not attributed what hadith you claim that is from and blindly accept it and the accuracy of the translation like dana?
O.K. I'll do it anyway. I don't think you are acknowledging the basic logic of the quotation.
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
First we have to take note "people of Kemet" seem to be an interpretation. Anyway...
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
quote:It says "People of the Black Soil" in capital letters. This means that the People of the Black Soil
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired? [/QB]
quote:Are you saying that it's a weak hadith? Or are you saying that I just made it up and it doesn't exist? What are you saying?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I tried, for some reason it's hard to find.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
And don't change the subject - just prove the statement you copied from Tariq doesn't exist.
My agenda? Right ur Lyin' _ss. LOL! Keep projecting yourself onto others.
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
The people who had black skin and kinky were much earlier ancestors.
But the Egyptian didn't even have "black" skin like you see in the Egyptian art how they portrayed the Kushites. They had reddish brown skin.
Apparently you have no interest in finding this alleged hadith. I can see why [/QB]
quote:I'm saying either of those are possibilities as well as issues with the translation and people who post such comments which could have a lot of impact in a site like this would be quick to quote the source rather than conceal it.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Are you saying that it's a weak hadith? Or are you saying that I just made it up and it doesn't exist? What are you saying? [/QB]
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote:I don't get what you are saying about people of the black soil being in capital letters. Do you realize that the hadith is in Arabic and there are no capital letters in Arabic? I translated it and I put the capital letters. You can make them small letters if you want. The source of the hadith cannot be found. But it's there. If you are saying that it's a weak hadith, I would like to know your proof. The hadith is mentioned regularly in Arabic. If you have knowledge of it being a weak hadith, tell me about it.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:It says "People of the Black Soil" in capital letters. This means that the People of the Black Soil
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired?
not people of the soil as in some of.
However, I must say the context is not entirely clear either way.
I cannot proceed further until you give the source.
That would be easy enough. It seem suspicious like you are hiding it for some reason.
Some of the other people who are currently talking about Prophet Muhammad was black (an quoting you) say that Muhammad and Mecca were black and that the whites came in only about a hundred years with the first Caliph
Abu Bakr. They go on to claim therefore the hadiths are all false anyway because it was white people writing them.
I don't know if this is your opinion. If you or dana are of the opinion that Islam was good until whites took it over then you would need give the point at which this occurred, who was the first "white" caliph?. Maybe you are of the opinion that it wasn't till much later until the Ottomans.
But artwork prior to the Ottoman seems to contradict that.
I'm of the opinion that many Arabs in the peninsula are neither black or white but a natural transition between the two so called "races". [/QB]
quote:If you don't trust/believe me, simply show the hadith to someone who speaks Arabic and ask him/her to honestly tell you what it means and to not guess and to ask about the words that he/she doesn't understand before he/she gives you the translation because surely your average Arabic speaker would not understand some of the words in the hadith. Also ask the person to look and see if it is actually a hadith or did I make it up.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I'm saying either of those are possibilities as well as issues with the translation and people who post such comments which could have a lot of impact in a site like this would be quick to quote the source rather than conceal it. [/QB]
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Are you saying that it's a weak hadith? Or are you saying that I just made it up and it doesn't exist? What are you saying?
quote:I would love to do that. Please identify what hadith it is.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:If you don't trust/believe me, simply show the hadith to someone who speaks Arabic and ask him/her to honestly tell you what it means and to not guess and to ask about the words that he/she doesn't understand before he/she gives you the translation because surely your average Arabic speaker would not understand some of the words in the hadith. Also ask the person to look and see if it is actually a hadith or did I make it up. [/QB]
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I'm saying either of those are possibilities as well as issues with the translation and people who post such comments which could have a lot of impact in a site like this would be quick to quote the source rather than conceal it.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Are you saying that it's a weak hadith? Or are you saying that I just made it up and it doesn't exist? What are you saying?
quote:Tariq - I think you need to explain snaky where hadiths are located since she obviously is not aware what they are or where she can look for them.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I don't get what you are saying about people of the black soil being in capital letters. Do you realize that the hadith is in Arabic and there are no capital letters in Arabic? I translated it and I put the capital letters. You can make them small letters if you want. The source of the hadith cannot be found. But it's there. If you are saying that it's a weak hadith, I would like to know your proof. The hadith is mentioned regularly in Arabic. If you have knowledge of it being a weak hadith, tell me about it. [/QB]
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:It says "People of the Black Soil" in capital letters. This means that the People of the Black Soil
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired?
not people of the soil as in some of.
However, I must say the context is not entirely clear either way.
I cannot proceed further until you give the source.
That would be easy enough. It seem suspicious like you are hiding it for some reason.
Some of the other people who are currently talking about Prophet Muhammad was black (an quoting you) say that Muhammad and Mecca were black and that the whites came in only about a hundred years with the first Caliph
Abu Bakr. They go on to claim therefore the hadiths are all false anyway because it was white people writing them.
I don't know if this is your opinion. If you or dana are of the opinion that Islam was good until whites took it over then you would need give the point at which this occurred, who was the first "white" caliph?. Maybe you are of the opinion that it wasn't till much later until the Ottomans.
But artwork prior to the Ottoman seems to contradict that.
I'm of the opinion that many Arabs in the peninsula are neither black or white but a natural transition between the two so called "races".
quote:You can find the hadith in Sirat Ibn Hisham.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I'm saying either of those are possibilities as well as issues with the translation and people who post such comments which could have a lot of impact in a site like this would be quick to quote the source rather than conceal it. [/QB]
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Are you saying that it's a weak hadith? Or are you saying that I just made it up and it doesn't exist? What are you saying?
quote:Dana. Do you know if Sirat Ibn Hisham is available in English for her to read?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Tariq - I think you need to explain snaky where hadiths are located since she obviously is not aware what they are or where she can look for them. [/QB]
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I don't get what you are saying about people of the black soil being in capital letters. Do you realize that the hadith is in Arabic and there are no capital letters in Arabic? I translated it and I put the capital letters. You can make them small letters if you want. The source of the hadith cannot be found. But it's there. If you are saying that it's a weak hadith, I would like to know your proof. The hadith is mentioned regularly in Arabic. If you have knowledge of it being a weak hadith, tell me about it.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:It says "People of the Black Soil" in capital letters. This means that the People of the Black Soil
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired?
not people of the soil as in some of.
However, I must say the context is not entirely clear either way.
I cannot proceed further until you give the source.
That would be easy enough. It seem suspicious like you are hiding it for some reason.
Some of the other people who are currently talking about Prophet Muhammad was black (an quoting you) say that Muhammad and Mecca were black and that the whites came in only about a hundred years with the first Caliph
Abu Bakr. They go on to claim therefore the hadiths are all false anyway because it was white people writing them.
I don't know if this is your opinion. If you or dana are of the opinion that Islam was good until whites took it over then you would need give the point at which this occurred, who was the first "white" caliph?. Maybe you are of the opinion that it wasn't till much later until the Ottomans.
But artwork prior to the Ottoman seems to contradict that.
I'm of the opinion that many Arabs in the peninsula are neither black or white but a natural transition between the two so called "races".
quote:Yes - I see it on-line as a free download. I'm sure she'll find it quick enough if she isn't already looking into it.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana. Do you know if Sirat Ibn Hisham is available in English for her to read?
quote:I can't find it in English online.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Tariq - I think you need to explain snaky where hadiths are located since she obviously is not aware what they are or where she can look for them. [/QB]
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I don't get what you are saying about people of the black soil being in capital letters. Do you realize that the hadith is in Arabic and there are no capital letters in Arabic? I translated it and I put the capital letters. You can make them small letters if you want. The source of the hadith cannot be found. But it's there. If you are saying that it's a weak hadith, I would like to know your proof. The hadith is mentioned regularly in Arabic. If you have knowledge of it being a weak hadith, tell me about it.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:It says "People of the Black Soil" in capital letters. This means that the People of the Black Soil
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
I don't know what color you are, but let's just assume that you are of color with kinky hair. If I say to you, when you go to Egypt, be good to the dark-skinned kinky-haired because they are your people. Does that mean that you aren't dark-skinned and kinky-haired?
not people of the soil as in some of.
However, I must say the context is not entirely clear either way.
I cannot proceed further until you give the source.
That would be easy enough. It seem suspicious like you are hiding it for some reason.
Some of the other people who are currently talking about Prophet Muhammad was black (an quoting you) say that Muhammad and Mecca were black and that the whites came in only about a hundred years with the first Caliph
Abu Bakr. They go on to claim therefore the hadiths are all false anyway because it was white people writing them.
I don't know if this is your opinion. If you or dana are of the opinion that Islam was good until whites took it over then you would need give the point at which this occurred, who was the first "white" caliph?. Maybe you are of the opinion that it wasn't till much later until the Ottomans.
But artwork prior to the Ottoman seems to contradict that.
I'm of the opinion that many Arabs in the peninsula are neither black or white but a natural transition between the two so called "races".
quote:I think that's in Arabic.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Yes - I see it on-line as a free download. I'm sure she'll find it quick enough if she isn't already looking into it.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana. Do you know if Sirat Ibn Hisham is available in English for her to read?
quote:It's on the first page of the first volume.
Originally posted by the lioness:
what number is it in
Sirat Ibn Hisham?
quote:I can't find the hadith in the English translation. Here it is in the Arabic original:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Sirat%20Ibn%20Hisham.pdf
quote:Lioness, if you don't find it in the English translation, don't blame me. Blame the translators. I told you where you can find it in Arabic. It's on the first page of volume 1 of Sirat Ibn Hisham. Sooner or later you will come to realize that what I'm trying to translate for you into English will probably never be translated by anyone else. I don't mean to sound vain or cocky, but it's just the reality. Not many people are willing to translate these things for you.
Originally posted by the lioness:
what number is it in
Sirat Ibn Hisham?
quote:That's because they made it an "abridged version" and as usual probably made sure it wasn't in the English copy. That's typical Tariq, and not surprising.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I can't find the hadith in the English translation. Here it is in the Arabic original:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Sirat%20Ibn%20Hisham.pdf
قال ابن هشام : حدثنا عبدالله بن وهب عن عبدالله بن لهيعة عن عمر
مولى غفرة أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله قال : " الله الله في أهل الذمة ،
أهل المدرة السوداء السحم الجعاد ، فإن لهم نسبا وصهرا " .
;
quote:They are first and foremost not going to translate anything which has Mohammed (pbuh)calling his people black - that's for sure. Everyone had better know that.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Lioness, if you don't find it in the English translation, don't blame me. Blame the translators. I told you where you can find it in Arabic. It's on the first page of volume 1 of Sirat Ibn Hisham. Sooner or later you will come to realize that what I'm trying to translate for you into English will probably never be translated by anyone else. I don't mean to sound vain or cocky, but it's just the reality. Not many people are willing to translate these things for you.
Originally posted by the lioness:
what number is it in
Sirat Ibn Hisham?
quote:And why are you putting People with black-skinned kinky-haired instead of keeping it with of the Black Soil? Can't you see that People is capitalized with of the Black Soil? It's People of the Black Soil. أهل المدرة السوداء
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:to you and dana, sorry I didn't notice your comment in this thread until dana pointed it out
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness,
Why did you take what I said completely out of context and add to it and make your own deductions and then say that I said it? Why did you do that? Do you really not understand what I said or are you intentionally changing my words? Why??? Here is what I said:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003425;p=2
And how does the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) saying that the black-skinned, kinky-haired people of Egypt are the relatives of the Arabs mean that the Arabs aren't black-skinned and kinky-haired? If he hadn't mentioned black-skinned kinky-haired, you would have all of the different types of Egyptians claiming that he meant them, right? It seems to me he was only making it clear which Egyptians he was talking about - the original Egyptians - who were dark-skinned and kinky-haired. Remember that at that time there were other peoples in Egypt like the Romans, Greeks, and Persians. Don't you know this? Please don't take my words out of context and add to them and subtract from them.
Should I proceed when you have not attributed what hadith you claim that is from and blindly accept it and the accuracy of the translation like dana?
O.K. I'll do it anyway. I don't think you are acknowledging the basic logic of the quotation.
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
First we have to take note "people of Kemet" seem to be an interpretation. Anyway...
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
quote:Whatttt????!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness:
12.The Arabs say Hajr and Ajar, changing the h to an a as in the verb haraqua and araqua 'to pour out' Hajar was an Egyptian. 'Abdullah b. Wahb from 'Abdullah b. Lahia in the authority of 'Umar client of Ghufra told me that the apostle said 'Show piety in dealing with the protected peoples those of the settled lands, the black the crinkly haired, for they have a noble ancestor and marriage ties (with us)' The said 'Umar explained by ancestry the prophet referred to the fact that the prophet Ishmail's mother came from them, and the marriage tie was contracted when the apostle took one of them as his concubine.
Ibn Lahia said: Ishmail's mother Hagar,the mother of the Arabs, came from a town in Egypt facing Farama; and Ibrahim's mother Maria, the prophet's concubine whom Muqauqis gave him, came from Hafn in the province of Ansina.[/b]
_________________________________________________
-the Prophet is telling his command to treat the Egyptians well when conquering them because they had taken female sex slaves and had babies with them so they were ,in part, of the same "stock"
quote:"Malik al-Ansari, also called al-Sulami, told him that the apostle of God said: 'When you conquer Egypt treat it's people well, for they can claim our protection and kinship.' I asked al-Zuhri what the apostle meant by making them our kin and he replied that Hagar, the mother of Ismail, was of their stock
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Whatttt????!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness:
12.The Arabs say Hajr and Ajar, changing the h to an a as in the verb haraqua and araqua 'to pour out' Hajar was an Egyptian. 'Abdullah b. Wahb from 'Abdullah b. Lahia in the authority of 'Umar client of Ghufra told me that the apostle said 'Show piety in dealing with the protected peoples those of the settled lands, the black the crinkly haired, for they have a noble ancestor and marriage ties (with us)' The said 'Umar explained by ancestry the prophet referred to the fact that the prophet Ishmail's mother came from them, and the marriage tie was contracted when the apostle took one of them as his concubine.
Ibn Lahia said: Ishmail's mother Hagar,the mother of the Arabs, came from a town in Egypt facing Farama; and Ibrahim's mother Maria, the prophet's concubine whom Muqauqis gave him, came from Hafn in the province of Ansina.[/b]
_________________________________________________
-the Prophet is telling his command to treat the Egyptians well when conquering them because they had taken female sex slaves and had babies with them so they were ,in part, of the same "stock"
quote:Do have mulatto dreams Snake or mulatto nightmares. I suspect its the latter.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:"Malik al-Ansari, also called al-Sulami, told him that the apostle of God said: 'When you conquer Egypt treat it's people well, for they can claim our protection and kinship.' I asked al-Zuhri what the apostle meant by making them our kin and he replied that Hagar, the mother of Ismail, was of their stock
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Whatttt????!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness:
12.The Arabs say Hajr and Ajar, changing the h to an a as in the verb haraqua and araqua 'to pour out' Hajar was an Egyptian. 'Abdullah b. Wahb from 'Abdullah b. Lahia in the authority of 'Umar client of Ghufra told me that the apostle said 'Show piety in dealing with the protected peoples those of the settled lands, the black the crinkly haired, for they have a noble ancestor and marriage ties (with us)' The said 'Umar explained by ancestry the prophet referred to the fact that the prophet Ishmail's mother came from them, and the marriage tie was contracted when the apostle took one of them as his concubine.
Ibn Lahia said: Ishmail's mother Hagar,the mother of the Arabs, came from a town in Egypt facing Farama; and Ibrahim's mother Maria, the prophet's concubine whom Muqauqis gave him, came from Hafn in the province of Ansina.[/b]
_________________________________________________
-the Prophet is telling his command to treat the Egyptians well when conquering them because they had taken female sex slaves and had babies with them so they were ,in part, of the same "stock"
quote:"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:"Malik al-Ansari, also called al-Sulami, told him that the apostle of God said: 'When you conquer Egypt treat it's people well, for they can claim our protection and kinship.' I asked al-Zuhri what the apostle meant by making them our kin and he replied that Hagar, the mother of Ismail, was of their stock
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Whatttt????!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness:
12.The Arabs say Hajr and Ajar, changing the h to an a as in the verb haraqua and araqua 'to pour out' Hajar was an Egyptian. 'Abdullah b. Wahb from 'Abdullah b. Lahia in the authority of 'Umar client of Ghufra told me that the apostle said 'Show piety in dealing with the protected peoples those of the settled lands, the black the crinkly haired, for they have a noble ancestor and marriage ties (with us)' The said 'Umar explained by ancestry the prophet referred to the fact that the prophet Ishmail's mother came from them, and the marriage tie was contracted when the apostle took one of them as his concubine.
Ibn Lahia said: Ishmail's mother Hagar,the mother of the Arabs, came from a town in Egypt facing Farama; and Ibrahim's mother Maria, the prophet's concubine whom Muqauqis gave him, came from Hafn in the province of Ansina.[/b]
_________________________________________________
-the Prophet is telling his command to treat the Egyptians well when conquering them because they had taken female sex slaves and had babies with them so they were ,in part, of the same "stock"
quote:If I was Chinese I wouldn't address a crowd of Chinese people "in regard to yellowish people with black hair".
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And why are you putting People with black-skinned kinky-haired instead of keeping it with of the Black Soil? Can't you see that People is capitalized with of the Black Soil? It's People of the Black Soil. أهل المدرة السوداء
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People. [/qb]
You said:
"because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given."
What would be a given? [/QB]
quote:Only in your mulatto nightmares - Snaky. The Arabians of that region were black and near black with kinky hair just like the 13th century Syrian Dhahabi said and fair skin was "rare" in the Hijaz where Mecca and Medina and the Ansar lived. Only their conubines and slaves were fair in that day.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:If I was Chinese I wouldn't address a crowd of Chinese people "in regard to yellowish people with black hair".
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And why are you putting People with black-skinned kinky-haired instead of keeping it with of the Black Soil? Can't you see that People is capitalized with of the Black Soil? It's People of the Black Soil. أهل المدرة السوداء
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
You said:
"because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given."
What would be a given? [/QB]
If I was George Bush addressing his followers I wouldn't say "concerning white people with straight hair"
That would be obvious. He looks like, they look like that.
But the Arabians he was addressing didn't look black skinned with kinky hair so he had to point out to them that the people that did look like that were related to them because these light skinned Arabs with straight hair had relations with black African concubines (female sex slaves)so they had some mulatto thing going . They should keep this in mind and not be too harsh when taking over the land for it's riches [/QB]
Tariq's not talking to you anymore so go to sleep. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:so you're saying that the slaves and concubines that the took from Africa were "fair skinned".
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Only in your mulatto nightmares - Snaky. The Arabians of that region were black and near black with kinky hair just like the 13th century Syrian Dhahabi said and fair skin was "rare" in the Hijaz where Mecca and Medina and the Ansar lived. Only their conubines and slaves were fair in that day.
quote:Byzantines don't come from Africa and most of the black slaves they had in that time were other Arabians, like the Eshban servants of the Banu Sulaym and ALL OF THE OTHER BLACK TRIBES OF THE HARRA.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:so you're saying that the slaves and concubines that the took from Africa were "fair skinned".
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Only in your mulatto nightmares - Snaky. The Arabians of that region were black and near black with kinky hair just like the 13th century Syrian Dhahabi said and fair skin was "rare" in the Hijaz where Mecca and Medina and the Ansar lived. Only their conubines and slaves were fair in that day.
[/QB]
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
No I'm not saying that. Keep projecting.
And I don't see any kinky hair in that south Arabian man you posted.
Beouin of Jordan
many Sinaitic and Jordanian Arabs come a little closer in appearance to the blacks or akhdar (green) people of early islamic Medina and Mecca. Incidently one hadith apparently describes the Prophet as a green man as should be expected.
quote:True - reddish brown like the color of the Arabs I posted and the color of millions of sub-Saharan Africans and blacks outside of Africa such as myself were blacks to the Arabs, Syrians and Iranians and Europeans.
Originally posted by the lioness:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
No I'm not saying that. Keep projecting.
And I don't see any kinky hair in that south Arabian man you posted.
Beouin of Jordan
many Sinaitic and Jordanian Arabs come a little closer in appearance to the blacks or akhdar (green) people of early islamic Medina and Mecca. Incidently one hadith apparently describes the Prophet as a green man as should be expected. [/QUOTE
your using contemporary definitions for blacks. These above could have been blacks to some ancient peoples. Look at the Egyptians they aint even black. They reddish brown. They use black for painting the Kushites.
quote:Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:If I was Chinese I wouldn't address a crowd of Chinese people "in regard to yellowish people with black hair".
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And why are you putting People with black-skinned kinky-haired instead of keeping it with of the Black Soil? Can't you see that People is capitalized with of the Black Soil? It's People of the Black Soil. أهل المدرة السوداء
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
You said:
"because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given."
What would be a given? [/QB]
If I was George Bush addressing his followers I wouldn't say "concerning white people with straight hair"
That would be obvious. He looks like that, the people he's addressing look like that.
But the Arabians he was addressing didn't look black skinned with kinky hair so he had to point out to them that the people that did look like that were related to them because these light skinned Arabs with straight hair had relations with black African concubines (female sex slaves)so they had some mulatto thing going . They should keep this in mind and not be too harsh when taking over the land for it's riches
The Sirat Rasul Allah records many references to black slaves and black mercenaries if they were black themselves they would be saying "slaves" and "mercenaries" not indicating something different [/QB]
quote:THANK YOU JARI! Maybe you can get her to understand this. I tried, but it's like she's not listening to me.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:If I was Chinese I wouldn't address a crowd of Chinese people "in regard to yellowish people with black hair".
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And why are you putting People with black-skinned kinky-haired instead of keeping it with of the Black Soil? Can't you see that People is capitalized with of the Black Soil? It's People of the Black Soil. أهل المدرة السوداء
Originally posted by the lioness:
"Fear Allah "Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
If you look at the above statement where he opens with "concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
If he was addressing his people and they themselves were "black-skinned" and "kinky-haired"
he wouldn't have said to them:
"concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People"
because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given.
Do you see what this comment reveals? It proves they were not black-skinned, kinky-haired People.
You said:
"because if he and they were all black-skinned, kinky-haired People that would be a given."
What would be a given?
If I was George Bush addressing his followers I wouldn't say "concerning white people with straight hair"
That would be obvious. He looks like that, the people he's addressing look like that.
But the Arabians he was addressing didn't look black skinned with kinky hair so he had to point out to them that the people that did look like that were related to them because these light skinned Arabs with straight hair had relations with black African concubines (female sex slaves)so they had some mulatto thing going . They should keep this in mind and not be too harsh when taking over the land for it's riches
The Sirat Rasul Allah records many references to black slaves and black mercenaries if they were black themselves they would be saying "slaves" and "mercenaries" not indicating something different [/QB]
In essence Muhammed could be saying, in Regards to Egypt.."Remember the Kinky Haired black Egyptians are your Kin" I.E not the Greek and Mixed Egyptians who controlled the Delta and Alexandria and the Richer cities...I.E don't harm them(The Black Kinky Haired..YOUR KIN).
For instance if a bunch of Africans took over Europe for 300 plus years and subjugated the Native whites and then a White Powerful Army from America decideds to Invade Europe, would it not make sense if the LEader of the resistance said.."Remember the Blond, Fair skinned Europeans are you Kin, so treat them well and don't harm them"..to folks who have not been to Europe in 300 Plus yrs, who don't really know who to attack..So Muhammed could be saying "Don't Go on a Killing Spree, Remember the Blacks with Kinky hair are your Kin"...
You are obviously taking things out of proportion...which is so typical of you. [/QB]
quote:could be
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
In essence In essence Muhammed could be saying, in Regards to Egypt.."Remember the Kinky Haired black Egyptians are your Kin" I.E not the Greek and Mixed Egyptians who controlled the Delta and Alexandria and the Richer cities...I.E don't harm them(The Black Kinky Haired..YOUR KIN).
For instance if a bunch of Africans took over Europe for 300 plus years and subjugated the Native whites and then a White Powerful Army from America decideds to Invade Europe, would it not make sense if the LEader of the resistance said.."Remember the Blond, Fair skinned Europeans are you Kin, so treat them well and don't harm them"..to folks who have not been to Europe in 300 Plus yrs, who don't really know who to attack..So Muhammed could be saying "Don't Go on a Killing Spree, Remember the Blacks with Kinky hair are your Kin"...
You are obviously taking things out of proportion...which is so typical of you. [/QB]
quote:Tariq - she probably has already read this.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana,
Show her the description of the Prophet Mohamed's (pbuh) first cousin Ali ibn Abi Talib and his uncle Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas and then maybe she'll understand things better. And tell her to read this:
http://savethetruearabs.blogspot.com/2009/08/true-description-of-prophet-mohameds_26.html
And this:
http://savethetruearabs.blogspot.com/2010/05/mohamed-al-nafs-al-zakia-pure-blooded.html
And tell her to read here how the Arabs of the past described the Arabs and ask her if she knows more about what the Arabs of the past looked like than the Arabs of the past themselves. If she says yes, ask her where she got her knowledge from:
http://www.savethetruearabs.com/gpage1.html
quote:Great paintings and posts Jari but the Lyin- snake just the like the average Euronut, I believe, is very much already aware of the fact that Kushites were often represented as copper brown in color just like the other Africans in Egypt. She is just draining everyones energy and time, and has been living in Sweden too long. That is where she had in her profile if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe she's not even African - I don't know.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
and Vice Versa..
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
quote:See what I mean - Nuttiest of the Nutties - and an evil snake.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
quote:what, you're calling two jari quotes evil now?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:See what I mean - Nuttiest of the Nutties - and an evil snake.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
quote:Your two quotes of mine are strawman and expose the depths of deception and desperation you operate in.(Don't you get I know how you operate). First off I never said the Egyptians painted themselves only a certain way, you did. Second I never said the Egyptians never painted themselves black so your quotes have no bearing on this discussion and are therefore dismissed as strawman, unless you can provide where I claimed the Egyptians did not paint themselves black and only reserved that for the Kushites...Please Post.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
quote:Ibn Hisham of Basra wrote a "rescension" of Ibn Ishaq's writings. So if there are truly derogatory things said about blacks than we know why.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:could be
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
In essence In essence Muhammed could be saying, in Regards to Egypt.."Remember the Kinky Haired black Egyptians are your Kin" I.E not the Greek and Mixed Egyptians who controlled the Delta and Alexandria and the Richer cities...I.E don't harm them(The Black Kinky Haired..YOUR KIN).
For instance if a bunch of Africans took over Europe for 300 plus years and subjugated the Native whites and then a White Powerful Army from America decideds to Invade Europe, would it not make sense if the LEader of the resistance said.."Remember the Blond, Fair skinned Europeans are you Kin, so treat them well and don't harm them"..to folks who have not been to Europe in 300 Plus yrs, who don't really know who to attack..So Muhammed could be saying "Don't Go on a Killing Spree, Remember the Blacks with Kinky hair are your Kin"...
You are obviously taking things out of proportion...which is so typical of you.
or could not be
It seems like it could be either one. Unless you go to the hadith and see all the other associations where blacks are described.
It becomes obvious that the perspective is of a people who were not the blacks.
Also notice how the note is referring to the actual hadith where they were describing the conquering of Egypt. Oh how they loved the Egyptians. (and their booty)
Look at this on Amazon:
Life of Muhammad : A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Muhammad-Translation-Ishaqs-Sirat/dp/019636034X
Now hit "search inside this book" at left
put in the word "black"
Now read the entries. Look at the bottom left of the list:
"show 20 more results"
read those too.
One can nitpick over different translations on detail, regardless it is obvious they make numerous remarks about black people,
black slaves,
black concubine (nice word for sex slaves)
also disparaging remarks about blackness,
lands they conquered and put under yoke.
treat your slaves well.
you will also notice, if you look up Bilal how he was traded for a "stronger" black who was a called "heathen", But Bilal was the one who was freed because he converted to masa's religion
and was a great singer of prayer [/QB]
quote:Your the snake - you should know.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:what, you're calling two jari quotes evil now?
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:See what I mean - Nuttiest of the Nutties - and an evil snake.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
quote:dana they used a lot of black people as slaves, must we go on? Woman working as sex slaves and men dying of exhaustion in mines and vast numbers dying on long transport routes. wake up already.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Saying - "You insulted them BECAUSE OF THEIR BLACKNESS while there are still PURE BLACK SKINNED ARABS. However you are blue (eyed) the RUm Byzantines having embellished you with their color."
Ture Arab historians already know about the racism of the Abbasid period - Snaky by people of of part Arab blood. Maybe you should buy the book Black Arabia by Wesley Muhammed for more detailed info.
Nice try though. [/QB]
quote:a black man with long flowing hair. Very interesting. What will these hadiths turn up next?
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
translation of the hadith called
SIRAT RASUL ALLAH
p. 243
A man of B.al-'Ajlan told be that he was told that Gabriel came to the apostle and said
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
quote:Funny because the banu Ajlan are also of the Dawasir "the tallest and blackest of the Arabs". The original Dawasir belonged to the Azd (described as "jet black and "akhdar") depending on the time period.
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
translation of the hadith called
SIRAT RASUL ALLAH
p. 243
A man of B.al-'Ajlan told be that he was told that Gabriel came to the apostle and said
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
quote:Look at how the Kushites are done, they often have hoop earrings and leopard skins. They often have a wide sash or belt going across their chests often tying around the waist, supposedly a leather item. The are portrayed with bigger lips and wider noses than the Egyptians. (alarm bells going off-something she said is wrong...)
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
there's evidence for European (north Mediterranean)
immigrants to littoral N Africa in prehistoric times
quote:dana they used a lot of black people as slaves, must we go on? Woman working as sex slaves and men dying of exhaustion in mines and vast numbers dying on long transport routes. wake up already.
Originally posted by the lioness:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
Saying - "You insulted them BECAUSE OF THEIR BLACKNESS while there are still PURE BLACK SKINNED ARABS. However you are blue (eyed) the RUm Byzantines having embellished you with their color."
Ture Arab historians already know about the racism of the Abbasid period - Snaky by people of of part Arab blood. Maybe you should buy the book Black Arabia by Wesley Muhammed for more detailed info.
Nice try though.
quote:If you want to go on go on.
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
quote:Maybe he was Indian?? You should do the Radius think you do when you run out of spin tactics and strawman..Im sure India would fit your criteria..a Black man with Ruddy cheeks sounds like and Indian.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:dana they used a lot of black people as slaves, must we go on? Woman working as sex slaves and men dying of exhaustion in mines and vast numbers dying on long transport routes. wake up already.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Saying - "You insulted them BECAUSE OF THEIR BLACKNESS while there are still PURE BLACK SKINNED ARABS. However you are blue (eyed) the RUm Byzantines having embellished you with their color."
Ture Arab historians already know about the racism of the Abbasid period - Snaky by people of of part Arab blood. Maybe you should buy the book Black Arabia by Wesley Muhammed for more detailed info.
Nice try though.
quote:a black man with long flowing hair. Very interesting. What will these hadiths turn up next? [/QB]
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
translation of the hadith called
SIRAT RASUL ALLAH
p. 243
A man of B.al-'Ajlan told be that he was told that Gabriel came to the apostle and said
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
quote:a black man with long flowing hair. Very interesting. What will these hadiths turn up next? [/QB][/QUOTE]Maybe he was Indian?? You should do the Radius think you do when you run out of spin tactics and strawman..Im sure India would fit your criteria..a Black man with Ruddy cheeks sounds like and Indian. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
translation of the hadith called
SIRAT RASUL ALLAH
p. 243
A man of B.al-'Ajlan told be that he was told that Gabriel came to the apostle and said
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
quote:Bernard Lewis said it best. "The slave population of the Islamic world was recruited from many lands. In the earliest days, slaves came principally from the newly conquered countries -- from the Fertile Crescent and Egypt, from Iran and North Africa, from Central Asia, India, and Spain... by conversion and manumission they were rapidly absorbed into the general population.”
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:dana they used a lot of black people as slaves, must we go on? Woman working as sex slaves and men dying of exhaustion in mines and vast numbers dying on long transport routes. wake up already.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Saying - "You insulted them BECAUSE OF THEIR BLACKNESS while there are still PURE BLACK SKINNED ARABS. However you are blue (eyed) the RUm Byzantines having embellished you with their color."
Ture Arab historians already know about the racism of the Abbasid period - Snaky by people of of part Arab blood. Maybe you should buy the book Black Arabia by Wesley Muhammed for more detailed info.
Nice try though.
[ [/QB]
quote:Yes I'll wake up when you post some evidence of that. Meanwhile I'll post this.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:dana they used a lot of black people as slaves, must we go on? Woman working as sex slaves and men dying of exhaustion in mines and vast numbers dying on long transport routes. wake up already.
Originally posted by the lioness:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche:
Saying - "You insulted them BECAUSE OF THEIR BLACKNESS while there are still PURE BLACK SKINNED ARABS. However you are blue (eyed) the RUm Byzantines having embellished you with their color."
Ture Arab historians already know about the racism of the Abbasid period - Snaky by people of of part Arab blood. Maybe you should buy the book Black Arabia by Wesley Muhammed for more detailed info.
Nice try though.
[
quote:Maybe he was Indian?? You should do the Radius think you do when you run out of spin tactics and strawman..Im sure India would fit your criteria..a Black man with Ruddy cheeks sounds like and Indian. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:a black man with long flowing hair. Very interesting. What will these hadiths turn up next?
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Originally posted by the lioness:
THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD
translation of the hadith called
SIRAT RASUL ALLAH
p. 243
A man of B.al-'Ajlan told be that he was told that Gabriel came to the apostle and said
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
quote:The man narrating makes the mistake of claiming slavery a Muslim or Muhammedan perpetration which may be more accurate than calling it Arab but it still is not entirely accurate. many people perpetrating the inhumanity at this time were neither Arab or even Muslim as we well know.
Originally posted by the lioness:
The Arab Muslim Slave Trade Of Africans, The Untold Story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zM_MzkLKPY&p=E36AB3CCF9CE91A5&playnext=1&index=6
.
quote:Google translates this passage:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
الله الله في أهل الذمة ، أهل المدرة السوداء السحم الجعاد فإن لهم نسبا وصهرا
I'm finished discussing this with you.
quote:Wally. That's not a translation. Google can't translate that passage. This is what Lioness wrote a while back, isn't it? Is that what she did? Got a Google translation of it?! That explains why it doesn't make any sense. I thought an actual person translated it like that. Yes. Here is what she said a while back:
Originally posted by Wally:
quote:Google translates this passage:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
"Fear Allah - Fear Allah concerning the black-skinned, kinky-haired People of the Black Soil (People of Kemet) who are under your protection! Verily they are your relatives."
الله الله في أهل الذمة ، أهل المدرة السوداء السحم الجعاد فإن لهم نسبا وصهرا
I'm finished discussing this with you.
الله الله في أهل الذمة ، أهل المدرة السوداء السحم الجعاد فإن لهم نسبا وصهرا
as
"God God in the people of the Book, the people of generating black Shm Aldjaad they have the proportions and marriage relationship"
quote:p243
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
The correct translation of the description of Nabtal is NOT this - as Lioness wrote:
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
This is the description of Nabtal:
كان جسيما أدلم ثائر شعر الرأس أحمر العينين أسفع الخدين
"He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair (not combed hair), red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks".
quote:The hell it can! You just repeated the accuracy of this translation, and here's another
awlaadberry wrote:
Wally. That's not a translation. Google can't translate that passage.
quote:Wally. That also isn't a correct translation. What makes you think it is correct? It makes no sense either. The correct translation of what you just posted in Arabic is:
Originally posted by Wally:
quote:The hell it can! You just repeated the accuracy of this translation, and here's another
awlaadberry wrote:
Wally. That's not a translation. Google can't translate that passage.
example of Google's translation that duplicates your own or the troll's...
والمعروف طبعا أن السيدة هاجر هي الأم التي انحدر من نسلها كل العرب، وبذلك يكون لأهل بورسعيد الشرف كل الشرف
في أن تكون السيدة هاجر منهم لحما ودما، حسبا ونسبا
"Known of course, that Hagar is the mother who descended from the offspring of all Arabs,
and thus to the people of Port Said Honor all honor to be Hagar them flesh and blood, and ratios, happens"
What Arabic dialect do you speak?
quote:And???? What's your point? I THINK I might know what you are getting at. Read this hadith Lioness:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:p243
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
The correct translation of the description of Nabtal is NOT this - as Lioness wrote:
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
This is the description of Nabtal:
كان جسيما أدلم ثائر شعر الرأس أحمر العينين أسفع الخدين
"He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair (not combed hair), red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks".
The line immediately preceding that line:
"Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b.al-Hraith'
He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair , red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks
-I have added your translation to the preceding
quote:maybe
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And???? What's your point? I THINK I might know what you are getting at. Read this hadith Lioness:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:p243
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
The correct translation of the description of Nabtal is NOT this - as Lioness wrote:
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
This is the description of Nabtal:
كان جسيما أدلم ثائر شعر الرأس أحمر العينين أسفع الخدين
"He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair (not combed hair), red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks".
The line immediately preceding that line:
"Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b.al-Hraith'
He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair , red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks
-I have added your translation to the preceding
(عن زيد بن أسلم عن عطاء بن يسار أنه أخبره قال كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المسجد فدخل رجل ثائر الرأس واللحية فأشار إليه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ( بيده ) أن أخرج كأنه يعني إصلاح شعر رأسه ولحيته ففعل الرجل ثم رجع قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أليس هذا خيرا من أن يأتي أحدكم ثائر الرأس كأنه شيطان
It is related by Zaid ibn Aslam that Ataa ibn Yasaar told him that the Prophet (pbuh) was in the mosque when a man with unkempt hair and beard entered. The Prophet (pbuh) then signaled to him with his hand telling him to leave as if he meant leave and go comb your hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. When he returned, the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"Isn't that better than coming to the mosque with unkempt hair as if one is a Satan?"
quote:Yes. It's a different hadith.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:maybe
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And???? What's your point? I THINK I might know what you are getting at. Read this hadith Lioness:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:p243
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
The correct translation of the description of Nabtal is NOT this - as Lioness wrote:
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
This is the description of Nabtal:
كان جسيما أدلم ثائر شعر الرأس أحمر العينين أسفع الخدين
"He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair (not combed hair), red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks".
The line immediately preceding that line:
"Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b.al-Hraith'
He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair , red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks
-I have added your translation to the preceding
(عن زيد بن أسلم عن عطاء بن يسار أنه أخبره قال كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المسجد فدخل رجل ثائر الرأس واللحية فأشار إليه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ( بيده ) أن أخرج كأنه يعني إصلاح شعر رأسه ولحيته ففعل الرجل ثم رجع قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أليس هذا خيرا من أن يأتي أحدكم ثائر الرأس كأنه شيطان
It is related by Zaid ibn Aslam that Ataa ibn Yasaar told him that the Prophet (pbuh) was in the mosque when a man with unkempt hair and beard entered. The Prophet (pbuh) then signaled to him with his hand telling him to leave as if he meant leave and go comb your hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. When he returned, the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"Isn't that better than coming to the mosque with unkempt hair as if one is a Satan?"
but is that a different hadith?
quote:maybe
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
It is related by Zaid ibn Aslam that Ataa ibn Yasaar told him that the Prophet (pbuh) was in the mosque when a man with unkempt hair and beard entered. The Prophet (pbuh) then signaled to him with his hand telling him to leave as if he meant leave and go comb your hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. When he returned, the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"Isn't that better than coming to the mosque with unkempt hair as if one is a Satan?" [/qb]
quote:Maybe what???
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:maybe
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:And???? What's your point? I THINK I might know what you are getting at. Read this hadith Lioness:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:p243
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
The correct translation of the description of Nabtal is NOT this - as Lioness wrote:
'There comes to sit with you a black man with long flowing hair, ruddy cheeks and inflamed eyes like two copper pots. His heart is more gross than a donkey's; he carries your words to the hypocrites so beware of him'. This so they say was the description of Nabtal.
This is the description of Nabtal:
كان جسيما أدلم ثائر شعر الرأس أحمر العينين أسفع الخدين
"He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair (not combed hair), red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks".
The line immediately preceding that line:
"Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b.al-Hraith'
He was huge, jet black-skinned, with unkempt hair , red eyes, and black mixed with reddish cheeks
-I have added your translation to the preceding
(عن زيد بن أسلم عن عطاء بن يسار أنه أخبره قال كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المسجد فدخل رجل ثائر الرأس واللحية فأشار إليه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ( بيده ) أن أخرج كأنه يعني إصلاح شعر رأسه ولحيته ففعل الرجل ثم رجع قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أليس هذا خيرا من أن يأتي أحدكم ثائر الرأس كأنه شيطان
It is related by Zaid ibn Aslam that Ataa ibn Yasaar told him that the Prophet (pbuh) was in the mosque when a man with unkempt hair and beard entered. The Prophet (pbuh) then signaled to him with his hand telling him to leave as if he meant leave and go comb your hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. When he returned, the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"Isn't that better than coming to the mosque with unkempt hair as if one is a Satan?"
but is that a different hadith?
quote:Yes. It's a different hadith. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:maybe
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
It is related by Zaid ibn Aslam that Ataa ibn Yasaar told him that the Prophet (pbuh) was in the mosque when a man with unkempt hair and beard entered. The Prophet (pbuh) then signaled to him with his hand telling him to leave as if he meant leave and go comb your hair and beard. The man did so and then returned. When he returned, the Prophet (pbuh) said:
"Isn't that better than coming to the mosque with unkempt hair as if one is a Satan?"
but is that a different hadith? [/qb]
quote:a few weeks ago he was was lurking around in one of my closets around 2am. I told him "you're boring, get out" and he left out the window
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Have you seen Satan?
quote:I see.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:a few weeks ago he was was lurking around in one of my closets around 2am. I told him "you're boring, get out" and he left out the window
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Have you seen Satan?
quote:The stupid girl wrote the above after Dana told her they took fair skinned slaves from Byzantium in modern Turkey. Obviously she thinks slaves can only be black, forgetting that most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
Originally posted by the lyingass:
so you're saying that the slaves and concubines that the took from Africa were "fair skinned".
quote:The dumb one then goes against the Arab Hadith she herself cited where they called the Egyptians BLACK WITH CRINKLY HAIR! LOL Now she tries to claim that the Egyptians with very DARK reddish brown or mahogany skins are not really black but only ebony dark people are!LOL
your using contemporary definitions for blacks. These above could have been blacks to some ancient peoples. Look at the Egyptians they aint even black. They reddish brown. They use black for painting the Kushites.
quote:If I didn't know any better I'd say Satan left her closet and entered HER! They say Satan is the Lord of lies, but then again he is very clever whereas this girl is very stupid.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I see.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:a few weeks ago he was was lurking around in one of my closets around 2am. I told him "you're boring, get out" and he left out the window
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Have you seen Satan?
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
quote:Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Funny how black people's hair is usually described as unkempt and/or disheveled in Arabic writings like the hadith.
“…worshipped by the Azd, Sa’d bin Zaid Ashhal was sent to the idol temple of Menat to demolish it, this being the idol of the tribes of Aus, Khazraj and Ghusan. When Sa’d entered the temple of Menat he beheld a black woman with dischevelled hair coming out of it… but S’ad finished her with one blow of his sword. “ From Garden of Purity by Mirkhond The Rayzat – in Safa translation E. Rehatsak printed by the Royal Asiatic Society , London, 1891-1894.
Al Tabari born in Central Asia in the 9th century mentions the goddess Uzza or Azziz-lat another emanation of Allat, daughter of Allah: "'I have destroyed it.' he said to Muhammad. 'Did you see anything.' 'No.' 'Then.' Muhammad said, 'go back and kill her.' So Khalid returned to the idol. He destroyed her temple and broke her graven image. The shrine's keeper began saying, 'Rage, Oh Uzza, display one of your fits of rage.' Whereupon a naked, wailing Ethiopian woman came out before him. Khalid killed her and took the jewels that were on her. Then he went back to Allah's Messenger and gave him a report. 'That was Al-Uzza,' Muhammad said. 'Al-Uzza will never be worshiped again.'" –
Another translation says “Khalid Ben Alwalid destroyed the idol temple of Uzza and a nude black women with unkempt hair manifested. Al walid exclaimed, ‘Thou art not to be believed, nor to be praised. Allah has humbled thee!”
Oh - they had "unkempt" hair alright. Someone should have told these Iranian hadith writers what black hair looked like. LOL!
Looks to me like unkempt was another word for "fuzzy-wuzzy".
quote:I'm beginning to see this Djehuti.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Mr. Berry do not allow this fool to lead you astray like a devious jinni in the wilderness, or rather yet like a mentally deficient child leading you to her silly imaginations.
You are dealing with a person who is so delusional she chooses to ignore what is true and continues to spout her idiotic beliefs
quote:This is no doubt the case as virtually every word in the Bible which in the original Hebrew was 'black' became "Ethiopian" in English translations.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
quote:I would imagine that their complexion was like that of all the other Arabs.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:This is no doubt the case as virtually every word in the Bible which in the original Hebrew was 'black' became "Ethiopian" in English translations.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
By the way, I can't help but notice the brutal backlash against the old pagan religion of Arabia. This makes me more curious about it. How many of these temples existed and what happened to all the priestesses. Were all of many of the priestesses to the goddesses black?
quote:Tariq u are right the word Ethiopian here is probably originally just black woman because thats what the Arabs were at that time. The English translator probably just chose to translate it as "Ethiopian", just as in the Bible the word Kush or Kushi is in most cases translated in late editions as Ethiopian and people have wrongly since then associated that with the African Kush in Nubia or black people.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I would imagine that their complexion was like that of all the other Arabs.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:This is no doubt the case as virtually every word in the Bible which in the original Hebrew was 'black' became "Ethiopian" in English translations.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
By the way, I can't help but notice the brutal backlash against the old pagan religion of Arabia. This makes me more curious about it. How many of these temples existed and what happened to all the priestesses. Were all of many of the priestesses to the goddesses black?
quote:Yes. The translator just assumed that since she is described as black-skinned, she must be Ethiopian and can't be Arab.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Tariq u are right the word Ethiopian here is probably originally just black woman because thats what the Arabs were at that time. The English translator probably just chose to translate it as "Ethiopian", just as in the Bible the word Kush or Kushi is in most cases translated in late editions as Ethiopian and people have wrongly since then associated that with the African Kush in Nubia or black people.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:I would imagine that their complexion was like that of all the other Arabs.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:This is no doubt the case as virtually every word in the Bible which in the original Hebrew was 'black' became "Ethiopian" in English translations.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
By the way, I can't help but notice the brutal backlash against the old pagan religion of Arabia. This makes me more curious about it. How many of these temples existed and what happened to all the priestesses. Were all of many of the priestesses to the goddesses black?
quote:???
Originally posted by the lioness:
this painting may be authentic but it's highly unusual, wouldn't you agree?
quote:that's a lie
Originally posted by Djehuti:
most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
quote:How do you know that the majority were from Ethiopia? What's your proof? When did the Muslims fight the Ethiopians and take captives and enslave them??? Ask me when they fought the Persians, Romans, Byzantines, etc and take captives and enslave them and I will give you many examples.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:that's a lie
Originally posted by Djehuti:
most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
the majority were Ethiopian
why are you telling that lie?
quote:actually no. u r lying as is apparent with your egyptsearch calling to be known by the epithet lyness. First of all slavery being exclusive to dark skinned came at a later date in the world as the economy of sudanic states shifted from a overall gold exporter to an overall human resource agency. due also to divisions and civil strife in the islamic world and the strengthening of european nations in military the economic status of teh sudanic did a topsy turvy. They became what europe was to the world. beleive it or not but europe was and still to this day to an extant was a main exporter for human labour. it is recorded in the american and australian histories.
that's a lie
the majority were Ethiopian
why are you telling that lie?
quote:which has origins in
Virginia, 1682
“Act I. It is enacted that all servants [...] which shall be imported into this country either by sea or by land, whether Negroes, Moors [Muslim North Africans], mulattoes or Indians who and whose parentage and native countries are not Christian at the time of their first purchase by some Christian [...] and all Indians, which shall be sold by our neighboring Indians, or any other trafficking with us for slaves, are hereby adjudged, deemed and taken to be slaves to all intents and purposes any law, usage, or custom to the contrary notwithstanding.”
Document H: October, virginia slave codes 1705. Chap. XLIX: An act concerning servants and
slaves.
…And also be it enacted ... That all servants imported and brought into this
country, by sea or land, who were not Christians in their native country, (except Turks
and Moors in amity with her majesty, and others that can make due proof of their being
free in England, or any other Christian country, before they were shipped, in order to
transportation hither) shall be accounted and be slaves, and as such be here bought and
sold notwithstanding a conversion to Christianity afterwards.
…And also be it enacted … That all masters and owners of servants, shall find and
provide for their servants, wholesome and competent diet, clothing, and lodging, by the
discretion of the county court; and shall not, at any time, give immoderate correction;
neither shall, at any time, whip a Christian white servant naked, without an order from a
justice of the peace: And if any, notwithstanding this act, shall presume to whip a
Christian white servant naked, without such order, the person so offending, shall forfeit
and pay for the same, forty shillings sterling, to the party injured…
And for a further Christian care and usage of all Christian servants, Be it also
enacted … That no negros, mullatos, or Indians, although Christians, or Jews, Moors,
Mahometans, or other infidels, shall, at any time, purchase any Christian servant, nor
any other, except of their own complexion, or such as are declared slaves by this act:
And if any negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, or such as
are declared slaves by this act, shall, notwithstanding, purchase any Christian white
servant, the said servant shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then
due, and shall be so held, deemed, and taken.
And for a further prevention of that abominable mixture and spurious issue, which
hereafter may increase in this her majesty’s colony and dominion, as well as by English,
and other white men and women intermarrying with negros and mulattos, as by their
unlawful coition with them, Be it enacted … That whatsoever English, or other white man
or woman, being free, shall intermarry with a negro or mulatto man or woman, bond or
free, shall, by judgment of the county court, be committed to prison, and there remain,
without bail; and shall forfeit and pay ten pounds current money of Virginia, to the use
of the parish, as aforesaid.
And be it further enacted, That no minister of the church of England, or other
minister, or person whatsoever, within this colony and dominion, shall hereafter wittingly
presume to marry a white man with a negro or mulatto woman; or to marry a white
woman with a negro or mulatto man, upon pain of forfeiting and paying, for every such
marriage the sum of ten thousand pounds of tobacco.
South Carolina, 1712
"Be it therefore enacted, by his Excellency, William, Lord Craven, Palatine.... and the rest of the members of the General Assembly, now met at Charles Town, for the South-west part of this Province, and by the authority of the same, That all negroes, mulatoes, mestizoes or Indians, which at any time heretofore have been sold, or now are held or taken to be, or hereafter shall be bought and sold for slaves, are hereby declared slaves; and they, and their children, are hereby made and declared slaves...."
quote:this was a crusade
Pope Nicholas V authorizes the Portuguese to "attack, subject, and reduce to perpetual slavery the Saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ southward from Cape Bajador and Non, including all the coast of Guinea"
quote:I would imagine that their complexion was like that of all the other Arabs. [/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:This is no doubt the case as virtually every word in the Bible which in the original Hebrew was 'black' became "Ethiopian" in English translations.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Dana, Which hadith was translated "Ethiopian" woman? All of the hadiths that I know about in Arabic say "black-skinned" woman. I'm wondering if someone translated "black-skinned" as "Ethiopian". That's probably what happened.
By the way, I can't help but notice the brutal backlash against the old pagan religion of Arabia. This makes me more curious about it. How many of these temples existed and what happened to all the priestesses. Were all of many of the priestesses to the goddesses black?
quote:Exactly Djehuti - that is what I have been saying and it is also clear that this happened in the northern part of the peninsula within the last 3-4 centuries as is clear from the descriptions of the North and Central Arabian tribes until the 15th and even 19th century when the Ka'b Muntafik or numerous clans of the Qays are described as having the complexion of Galla Ethiopians. I have already said the Anaesa, Shammar and other fair-skinned groups of basically Arabized Syrian biological stock began according to textbooks moving into North and Central Arabia in the last 4 centuries.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I am aware that the indigenous Arabians were black, but what of the lighter-skinned populations of the Levant and Mesopotamia who moved further south into northern Arabia? I am under the impression that these non-blacks moved in the area and mixed with the local peoples. But that such populations kept moving south in various waves creating the new non-black Arab identity.
quote:
Originally posted by the lyingass-dummy:
that's a lie
the majority were Ethiopian
why are you telling that lie?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
The only one telling lies is YOU as is the usual case! LOL quote:Correct! And just to add further, Ethiopia was far from being a major source of slaves for early Muslims, because of the fact that it was the first Islamic center outside of Arabia!! Yes, for those who don't know (including Lyingass) you read right! Ethiopia became the first center of Islam outside Southwest Asia even though it was a Christian state. During the time of civil strife within the Quraysh (Muhammad's tribe) between Muhammad and his Muslim followers and the pagan tribal leaders and their followers, the persecution of Muslims became so bad Muhammad and his followers fled Mecca and crossed the Red Sea to Ethiopia. It was in Ethiopia where they sought sanctuary, and even Muhammad gave explicit orders to his followers to respect the Christian Ethiopians who gave them refuge. Even today, the Ethiopian city of Negash is considered the fourth holiest city in Islam after Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem! Many of the first converts to Islam outside of Arabia were of course Ethiopians. Even Ethiopia's neighbor, Somalia received Islam peacefully from Arab traders especially from Yemen therefore Somalis like Ethiopians were never considered enslaved nations. Most of the Africans who were enslaved by Arabs were Sudanese Christians and pagans further north who were hostile to Muslims as well as pagan Bantus further south in what is today the Swahili Coast who were also hostile to Muslims.
Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
actually no. u r lying as is apparent with your egyptsearch calling to be known by the epithet lyness. First of all slavery being exclusive to dark skinned came at a later date in the world as the economy of sudanic states shifted from a overall gold exporter to an overall human resource agency. due also to divisions and civil strife in the islamic world and the strengthening of european nations in military the economic status of teh sudanic did a topsy turvy. They became what europe was to the world. beleive it or not but europe was and still to this day to an extant was a main exporter for human labour. it is recorded in the american and australian histories.
second, the lands that became the known modern arab lands are in actuality the empires of rome and persia. the arabs not only became the new rulers but the new maintainers of the already existing economies. henceforth black slaves in these empires were not very numerous. they were of course mentioned in text but they are not the bulk of the slaves. this is y u see statements with arabs like red(white) the color of a slave. also the word slave itself means a european in classical arabic and slav in english. from a business point of view, black slaves were not as lucrative to be the only source of servitude in the days b 4 "strictly black slaves" came along. if not for the reasons stated b 4, there would have not been a need for the famosity of black slavery. It is very evident in the hadeeths and history of the arabs they called slaves with skin color that were very deep black "black slaves" instead of slaves whereas in america and majority lighter skinned nations called them blacks or negroes only because blacks meant slaves in the new world so it would have been redundant to say black slaves because blacks were a slave race to them. They do not use the same for the indentures but instead call them white servants because they (callers of the target language)shared a common background with these white servants...
quote:Quite right. Europeans made it a policy not to conquer or enslave Christian nations, which was still a boon to Europe since MOST nations in the world especially during that time were not Christian nations in the first place. This was the reason why Ethiopia was spared conquest until of course the 1930s when the very nation of the Pope, Italy began its occupation of Italy! By then it was no longer about whose Christian or not but about whose not WHITE and "fair game".
Virginia, 1682
“Act I. It is enacted that all servants [...] which shall be imported into this country either by sea or by land, whether Negroes, Moors [Muslim North Africans], mulattoes or Indians who and whose parentage and native countries are not Christian at the time of their first purchase by some Christian [...] and all Indians, which shall be sold by our neighboring Indians, or any other trafficking with us for slaves, are hereby adjudged, deemed and taken to be slaves to all intents and purposes any law, usage, or custom to the contrary notwithstanding.”
Document H: October, virginia slave codes 1705. Chap. XLIX: An act concerning servants and
slaves.
…And also be it enacted ... That all servants imported and brought into this
country, by sea or land, who were not Christians in their native country, (except Turks
and Moors in amity with her majesty, and others that can make due proof of their being
free in England, or any other Christian country, before they were shipped, in order to
transportation hither) shall be accounted and be slaves, and as such be here bought and
sold notwithstanding a conversion to Christianity afterwards.
…And also be it enacted … That all masters and owners of servants, shall find and
provide for their servants, wholesome and competent diet, clothing, and lodging, by the
discretion of the county court; and shall not, at any time, give immoderate correction;
neither shall, at any time, whip a Christian white servant naked, without an order from a
justice of the peace: And if any, notwithstanding this act, shall presume to whip a
Christian white servant naked, without such order, the person so offending, shall forfeit
and pay for the same, forty shillings sterling, to the party injured…
And for a further Christian care and usage of all Christian servants, Be it also
enacted … That no negros, mullatos, or Indians, although Christians, or Jews, Moors,
Mahometans, or other infidels, shall, at any time, purchase any Christian servant, nor
any other, except of their own complexion, or such as are declared slaves by this act:
And if any negro, mulatto, or Indian, Jew, Moor, Mahometan, or other infidel, or such as
are declared slaves by this act, shall, notwithstanding, purchase any Christian white
servant, the said servant shall, ipso facto, become free and acquit from any service then
due, and shall be so held, deemed, and taken.
And for a further prevention of that abominable mixture and spurious issue, which
hereafter may increase in this her majesty’s colony and dominion, as well as by English,
and other white men and women intermarrying with negros and mulattos, as by their
unlawful coition with them, Be it enacted … That whatsoever English, or other white man
or woman, being free, shall intermarry with a negro or mulatto man or woman, bond or
free, shall, by judgment of the county court, be committed to prison, and there remain,
without bail; and shall forfeit and pay ten pounds current money of Virginia, to the use
of the parish, as aforesaid.
And be it further enacted, That no minister of the church of England, or other
minister, or person whatsoever, within this colony and dominion, shall hereafter wittingly
presume to marry a white man with a negro or mulatto woman; or to marry a white
woman with a negro or mulatto man, upon pain of forfeiting and paying, for every such
marriage the sum of ten thousand pounds of tobacco.
South Carolina, 1712
"Be it therefore enacted, by his Excellency, William, Lord Craven, Palatine.... and the rest of the members of the General Assembly, now met at Charles Town, for the South-west part of this Province, and by the authority of the same, That all negroes, mulatoes, mestizoes or Indians, which at any time heretofore have been sold, or now are held or taken to be, or hereafter shall be bought and sold for slaves, are hereby declared slaves; and they, and their children, are hereby made and declared slaves...."
which has origins in
Pope Nicholas V authorizes the Portuguese to "attack, subject, and reduce to perpetual slavery the Saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ southward from Cape Bajador and Non, including all the coast of Guinea"
this was a crusade
quote:But I thought these movements occurred much earlier than in the last 4 centuries but even centuries before the advent of Islam which only sped up the process.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
Exactly Djehuti - that is what I have been saying and it is also clear that this happened in the northern part of the peninsula within the last 3-4 centuries as is clear from the descriptions of the North and Central Arabian tribes until the 15th and even 19th century when the Ka'b Muntafik or numerous clans of the Qays are described as having the complexion of Galla Ethiopians. I have already said the Anaesa, Shammar and other fair-skinned groups of basically Arabized Syrian biological stock began according to textbooks moving into North and Central Arabia in the last 4 centuries.
That is why there are both dark skinned Shammar and light Shammar, dark skinned Anaeza and light skinned Anaeszah groups. Same thing as you can find with the Berbers - Kabyles, Mozabites, Masmuda, etc.
quote:Again, I thought immigration into Arabia occurred in the North first but then later in the south. The northern incoming peoples were of Syrian descent while the southern incomers were of Iranian descent. By the way, this might explain the Banadir people of Somalia who are the fair-skinned Yemenis of Persian ancestry.
The admixture in southern and eastern Arabia actually began a lot earlier than in the North and those people unlike the Northern emigrant Syro Arabians were known for a long time as Ebna (Persians or Iranians) and not as "Arabs". Nevertheless they now speak Arab or sometimes both languages and have become largely intermixed with the original black Azd, Kinda, Himyarite, Qahtan who were the true Arab peoples of the peninsula.
quote:this is garbage.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
quote:Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests? Those people you see selling captives in that picture are the descendants of the Persian, Greek, Roman, Slavic slaves. The Prophet Mohamed said to the Arabs what means something like this: "Your hands will become full of Persians (slaves). Then they will become like fearless lions. Then they will cut your throats and take your spoils."
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:this is garbage.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
Millions of black Africans were enslaved in a period of 14 centuries which still remains today in some countries.
Historians estimate that between 11 and 17 million slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert from 650 to 1900 AD.
It is estimated that they captured 1.25 million slaves from Western Europe and North America between the 16th and 19th centuries (this is the higher estimate)
As if the quantity of slaves from Europe and the Mediterranean makes one iota of difference to the fact that millions of black Africans were enslaved.
Many male slaves were castrated the females used as sex slaves, female slave to male slaves at a ratio 2:1. Massive numbers of slaves died when being transported over long distances.
slave market, Yemen, 13th century
The Arabs were usually ruthless and often disrespectful of societies and cultures that existed in Africa before they arrived. Many times the Arabs moved down the coast of East Africa rendering the service of the much needed East African coastal trade. Soon after this, Arabs began to marry or cohabit with African women. This in turn resulted in a generation of African-looking Arabs.
Djehuti for you to gloss over and attempt to excuse this simply by pointing out there where white slaves is a disgrace to the African people and the suffering of 14 centuries that goes on to this day.
quote:Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests? Those people you see selling captives in that picture are the descendants of the Persian, Greek, Roman, Slavic slaves. The Prophet Mohamed said to the Arabs what means something like this: "Your hands will become full of Persians (slaves). Then they will become like fearless lions. Then they will cut your throats and take your spoils."
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:this is garbage.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
most of the slaves during Medieval Islam were whites from Europe and the northern Mediterranean.
Millions of black Africans were enslaved in a period of 14 centuries which still remains today in some countries.
Historians estimate that between 11 and 17 million slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert from 650 to 1900 AD.
It is estimated that they captured 1.25 million slaves from Western Europe and North America between the 16th and 19th centuries (this is the higher estimate)
As if the quantity of slaves from Europe and the Mediterranean makes one iota of difference to the fact that millions of black Africans were enslaved.
Many male slaves were castrated the females used as sex slaves, female slave to male slaves at a ratio 2:1. Massive numbers of slaves died when being transported over long distances.
slave market, Yemen, 13th century
The Arabs were usually ruthless and often disrespectful of societies and cultures that existed in Africa before they arrived. Many times the Arabs moved down the coast of East Africa rendering the service of the much needed East African coastal trade. Soon after this, Arabs began to marry or cohabit with African women. This in turn resulted in a generation of African-looking Arabs.
Djehuti for you to gloss over and attempt to excuse this simply by pointing out there where white slaves is a disgrace to the African people and the suffering of 14 centuries that goes on to this day.
quote:I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests?
quote:Correct! And just to add further, Ethiopia was far from being a major source of slaves for early Muslims, because of the fact that it was the first Islamic center outside of Arabia!! Yes, for those who don't know (including Lyingass) you read right! Ethiopia became the first center of Islam outside Southwest Asia even though it was a Christian state. During the time of civil strife within the Quraysh (Muhammad's tribe) between Muhammad and his Muslim followers and the pagan tribal leaders and their followers, the persecution of Muslims became so bad Muhammad and his followers fled Mecca and crossed the Red Sea to Ethiopia. It was in Ethiopia where they sought sanctuary, and even Muhammad gave explicit orders to his followers to respect the Christian Ethiopians who gave them refuge. Even today, the Ethiopian city of Negash is considered the fourth holiest city in Islam after Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem! Many of the first converts to Islam outside of Arabia were of course Ethiopians. Even Ethiopia's neighbor, Somalia received Islam peacefully from Arab traders especially from Yemen therefore Somalis like Ethiopians were never considered enslaved nations. Most of the Africans who were enslaved by Arabs were Sudanese Christians and pagans further north who were hostile to Muslims as well as pagan Bantus further south in what is today the Swahili Coast who were also hostile to Muslims.
Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
actually no. u r lying as is apparent with your egyptsearch calling to be known by the epithet lyness. First of all slavery being exclusive to dark skinned came at a later date in the world as the economy of sudanic states shifted from a overall gold exporter to an overall human resource agency. due also to divisions and civil strife in the islamic world and the strengthening of european nations in military the economic status of teh sudanic did a topsy turvy. They became what europe was to the world. beleive it or not but europe was and still to this day to an extant was a main exporter for human labour. it is recorded in the american and australian histories.
second, the lands that became the known modern arab lands are in actuality the empires of rome and persia. the arabs not only became the new rulers but the new maintainers of the already existing economies. henceforth black slaves in these empires were not very numerous. they were of course mentioned in text but they are not the bulk of the slaves. this is y u see statements with arabs like red(white) the color of a slave. also the word slave itself means a european in classical arabic and slav in english. from a business point of view, black slaves were not as lucrative to be the only source of servitude in the days b 4 "strictly black slaves" came along. if not for the reasons stated b 4, there would have not been a need for the famosity of black slavery. It is very evident in the hadeeths and history of the arabs they called slaves with skin color that were very deep black "black slaves" instead of slaves whereas in america and majority lighter skinned nations called them blacks or negroes only because blacks meant slaves in the new world so it would have been redundant to say black slaves because blacks were a slave race to them. They do not use the same for the indentures but instead call them white servants because they (callers of the target language)shared a common background with these white servants...
quote:Is it me or does this sentence make no sense at all?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests?
quote:What language of mine is vague and metaphoric? And what racist angle are you talking about? Why do you think I'm a racist? And racist against whom? Can you tell me a little about yourself so that I can try to understand what your problem might be?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Then they go about finding all the vague metaphoric language and claim it supports their conclusion.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests?
In this case corrupting the religious text with a racist angle of their desire.
quote:Tell me about the wars that these non-whites were captured and enslaved during.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests?
The problem comes when a religious person tries to explain history. Instead of using all the historical sources they use only religious texts.
Then they go about finding all the vague metaphoric language and claim it supports their conclusion.
In this case corrupting the religious text with a racist angle of their desire.
quote:There are slaves that had become slave as a result of losing a war. However much of the slave trade involved capture of people without war.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Tell me about the wars that these non-whites were captured and enslaved during.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
Lioness did you read my book The Unknown Arabs? Why are you ignoring the period when most of the red (white) people were enslaved - the period of the Islamic conquests?
The problem comes when a religious person tries to explain history. Instead of using all the historical sources they use only religious texts.
Then they go about finding all the vague metaphoric language and claim it supports their conclusion.
In this case corrupting the religious text with a racist angle of their desire.
quote:Which war/wars? Explain.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:There are slaves that had become slave as a result of losing a war.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:How and from where?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:However much of the slave trade involved capture of people without war.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Tell me. Who was he.
Originally posted by the lioness:
who the hell do think Bilal was?
quote:1600 to 1790???
Originally posted by the lioness:
Cambridge history of Africa: from c.1600 to c.1790, Volume 4
p 118-121
quote:if you were to read that entry which one can do in the google books link you would see that in that section of the book they also mention centuries prior to the general period that is the title of the volume.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:1600 to 1790???
Originally posted by the lioness:
Cambridge history of Africa: from c.1600 to c.1790, Volume 4
p 118-121
quote:White Washing what history, you do realize that in the begining of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe, mainly "Slavs" and Turks..etc. The Saqqiliba and Mamluks were so common the term Slave comes from Slav. This is why the Turks and Mamluks were able to overwealm the Arab Caliphates such as those that controlled Baghdad. So in theory Alwaad is right, it was not until the Ottoman Turks came into power(around the 1600's RING A BELL) that enslavement of Whites was outlawed leading to the rise of black Abdeed slaves.
Originally posted by the lioness:
jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
quote:yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
quote:Who told you he was of Ethiopian origin? Do you mean because his mother was Ethiopian? From what I know, he was born in a place called Sira in Yemen.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:By the way Bilal was a black slave of Ethiopian origin. He was traded for another black slave, the other man was not freed because he was considered a heathen. Bilal was because he had converted to the slave master's religion and sang his song.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:1600 to 1790???
Originally posted by the lioness:
Cambridge history of Africa: from c.1600 to c.1790, Volume 4
p 118-121
quote:Lioness I understand what you are saying, but if you notice I don't usually post pics like this:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
If you were to listen to awlaadberry he would tell you there were no black slaves taken in earlier preiods from the Rashidun to the Abbasid and also prior to Muhammad. The picture I posted earlier is a slave market in Yemen in the 13th century.
The account of the conquest of Egypt which I just mentioned including it's tributaries paid in slaves and other goods and a disrespect for Egyptian culture.
quote:That's good news Neferkemet! It sounds like to me that your origin is from Oman.
Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Tariq, I have already told you that you were right in regards my arab origins. I did have my DNA tested, and my results have confirmed my paternal DNA matches are from "West, North, Central, and East Africa" to Oman, and my maternal DNA matches are from Yemen, Oman, and all the way to Pakistan. How is this possible? I have read your book, and didn't believe it until my DNA results came back, and proved what you said.
So, the question for me is where do these origins really come from? Arabia or "Africa"? Just because the frequencies are where they are now today, does that mean they originate from there?
quote:Of course the Lyingass is completely ignorant of the fact that the very word 'slave' is derived from 'Slav' as in the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. But of course the lyingass seems to be ignorant about history in general let alone Islamic history.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
White Washing what history, you do realize that in the begining of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe, mainly "Slavs" and Turks..etc. The Saqqiliba and Mamluks were so common **the term Slave comes from Slav**. This is why the Turks and Mamluks were able to overwealm the Arab Caliphates such as those that controlled Baghdad. So in theory Alwaad is right, it was not until the Ottoman Turks came into power(around the 1600's RING A BELL) that enslavement of Whites was outlawed leading to the rise of black Abdeed slaves.
I don't believe the Arabs were all black and if they were they were power hungry incompotents who did not know how to run their Empires and could not get over their lust for slave women. They pretty much bred themselves into destruction and allowed former Slave populations..Mamluks and Turks to take over their empires.
And lets be clear Africans all over the continent were resistant to Islamic factions. The Nubians kicked the Arabs and Turks until modern weapons were invented, the Zanj rebellion..etc.
There I helped you out, saved you from the freight train..LMAO
quote:LOL Yes, I believe this confusion goes back to the mistranslation of 'black' to Ethiopian. Bilal is widely known in the Islamic world as an 'Ethiopian' even though he was Yemeni.
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Who told you he was of Ethiopian origin? Do you mean because his mother was Ethiopian? From what I know, he was born in a place called Sira in Yemen.
Originally posted by the lioness:
By the way Bilal was a black slave of Ethiopian origin. He was traded for another black slave, the other man was not freed because he was considered a heathen. Bilal was because he had converted to the slave master's religion and sang his song.
quote:Interesting point. I too once thought that it was a slave revolt until I did more research. It's a shame how Western scholarship has turned every black presence outside of Africa into a 'slavery' affair.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also Lioness, one of the main reasons why African Kingdoms fell to Europeans and Arabs is because a lack of unity. Africans had some of the biggest armies, best Archers, we had navies, armor, Forts etc.
The Hebesha invaded Arabia and controlled it at one point..
... We have conquered the country of the Arabs as far as Mecca and have governed them. We defeated Dhu Nowas (Jewish King of Yemen) and killed all the Himyarite princes, but you, White people, have never conquered our country. Our people, the Zenghs (Negroes) revolted forty times in the Euphrates, driving the inhabitants from their homes and making Oballah a bath of blood
Al-Jahiz-Glory of the Blacks over the whites
The Zanj Control of Iraq:
"It was not a slave revolt. It was a zanj, i.e. a Negro, revolt. To equate Negro with slave is a reflection of nineteenth-century racial theories; it could only apply to the American South before the Civil War."
"All the talk about slaves rising against the wretched conditions of work in the salt marshes of Basra is a figment of the imagination and has no support in the sources. On the contrary, some of the people who were working in the salt marshes were among the first to fight against the revolt. Of course there were a few runaway slaves who joined the rebels, but this still does not make it a slave revolt. The vast majority of the rebels were Arabs of the Persian Gulf supported by free East Africans who had made their homes in the region.
Now the Zanj, Ethiopians, and the Nubians had some of the most powerful and advanced Empires during the middle Ages, what if the had come together, they could have controlled the Trade routes, subjugated the Arabs, Turks, and Persians while they fought each other.
quote:I don't agree with your term "significant history" I don't know what that means. Sounds Eurocentric to me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Mr. Berry, her only point is simply to white wash blacks from any significant history except as slaves. This is why she denies Ancient Egypt was black and she does the existence of blacks in the Arabian peninsula until the 'slave trade'.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:Of course the Lyingass is completely ignorant of the fact that the very word 'slave' is derived from 'Slav' as in the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. But of course the lyingass seems to be ignorant about history in general let alone Islamic history.
quote:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Who told you he was of Ethiopian origin? Do you mean because his mother was Ethiopian? From what I know, he was born in a place called Sira in Yemen.
Originally posted by the lioness:
By the way Bilal was a black slave of Ethiopian origin. He was traded for another black slave, the other man was not freed because he was considered a heathen. Bilal was because he had converted to the slave master's religion and sang his song.
quote:Lol, you're an idiot
Originally posted by Djehuti:Yes, I believe this confusion goes back to the mistranslation of 'black' to Ethiopian. Bilal is widely known in the Islamic world as an 'Ethiopian' even though he was Yemeni
LOL
quote:These types of remarks are from Arab historians who represent a legacy of the slave holding class.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[i]"It was not a slave revolt. It was a zanj, i.e. a Negro, revolt. To equate Negro with slave is a reflection of nineteenth-century racial theories; it could only apply to the American South before the Civil War."
quote:let me throw in some info that was left out.
Originally posted by the lioness:
jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
ISLAM ENTERS EGYPT :
632 AD Death of the Prophet Mohammad.
636 AD Arab conquest of Syria.
639-640 AD Arab Muslim conquest of Egypt led by Amr ibn al ‘As for Khalifa ‘Omar. This begins the first Muslim contacts with Lower Nubians who are forced to pay tribute in slaves and livestock and promise no aggression against Egypt.
641-2 AD Islamic armies of ‘Amr ibn al`As reach the plain north of Dongola but fail to capture it.
646 Egyptians attack Nubia.
652 AD A "baqt" treaty established between Nubia and Egypt under Abdallah ibn Sa'ad ibn Abi Sahr. Nubia would provide 360 slaves each year and promise no attacks; Egypt would provide 1300 "kanyr" of wine. Old Dongola is captured for a period; conflicts noted between Makuria and Nobatia
661-750 AD Umayyad Dynasty in Egypt. Some Nubians serve as mercenaries in the Islamic armies.
697-707 AD Merger of Nobatia and Mukurra under King Merkurius
720 AD A "baqt" is recorded between Egyptians and Beja
740's AD Cyriacus, King of Dongola lays siege to Umayyad capital at Fustat (Cairo).
750-870 AD Abbasid dynasty in Egypt.
758 AD Abbasids complain of no "baqt" payments and Blemmyes attacks on Upper Egypt.
819-822 AD Dongola king and Beja refuse to pay "baqt" tribute and they mount attacks on Egypt
835 AD George I (816-920), crowned King of Dongola
836 AD George I travels to Baghdad and Cairo
868-884 Amr Ahmed ibn Tulun rules Egypt; large numbers of Nubians in Tulunid army.
920 AD Reign of Dongola King Zakaria begins
950 AD Some Muslims reported at Soba
951,956,962 More Nubian raids into Upper Egypt
969-1171 AD Fatimid rule in Egypt; attack on Nubia by al-Umari
969 AD King George II reigns and attacks Egypt
ca. 1000 AD Nilotic cattle pastoralists expand into southern Sudan.
ca. 1050 Up to 50,000 Nubians serve in Fatimid army
1171-1250 AD Ayyubid Dynasty in Egypt
1127 AD Saladin (Ayyubids) forces Nubians to withdraw to Upper Egypt; George IV is Nubian King.
1140's AD Christian kingdom of Dotawo (Daw) noted in Nubia
1163 AD Crusaders attack Ayyubids and seek alliance with Nubian Christians.
1172 Nubian-Crusader alliance against Ayyubids; clashes in Cairo and Delta towns; Turanshah attacks Nubia
ca. 1200 Rise of the Daju dynasty in Darfur. Northward movement of Dinka, and Nuer populations into Bahr al-Ghazal and Upper Nile
1204 Nubian and Crusader leaders meet in Constantinople
1235 Last priest sent to Nubia from Alexandria
1250-1382 Bahri Mamluk Dynasty in Egypt
ISLAM PENETRATES NUBIA
1260-1277 Forces of Mamluke Sultan Al-Zahir Baybars attack Nubia
1264 Nubians again pay "baqt" tribute, now to Mamlukes
1268 AD Dongola King Dawud pays "baqt" to Mamlukes
1275 AD King Dawud raids Aswan
1275-1365 Period of warfare between Mamlukes and Nubians
1276 AD Mamluke Egyptians sack Dongola; forced conversion to Islam; King Dawud captured
1289 AD Last Mamluke military campaign against Dongola.
1317 AD Defeat of the last Christian king in Nubia and the first Muslim king Abdullah Barshambu on the throne in Dongola; "baqt" re-established; first mosque is built at Dongola
1372 AD Bishop of Faras consecrated by Patriarch in Alexandria
1382-1517 AD Circassian (Burji) Mamluke Dynasty in Egypt
1400's Probable time of the replacement of the Daju by the Tunjur Dynasty in Darfur. Luo migrations from the southern Sudan led to creation of Shilluk groups.
1453 AD Fall of Roman Empire of the East.
ISLAM REACHES THE CENTRAL SUDAN: Rise of Funj and Fur Sultanates
1504 AD The fall of Soba, capital of the last Christian kingdom of Alwa; the beginning of the Islamic Funj Sultanate at Sennar.
quote:Read this:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I don't agree with your term "significant history" I don't know what that means. Sounds Eurocentric to me.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Mr. Berry, her only point is simply to white wash blacks from any significant history except as slaves. This is why she denies Ancient Egypt was black and she does the existence of blacks in the Arabian peninsula until the 'slave trade'.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:Of course the Lyingass is completely ignorant of the fact that the very word 'slave' is derived from 'Slav' as in the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe. But of course the lyingass seems to be ignorant about history in general let alone Islamic history.quote:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Who told you he was of Ethiopian origin? Do you mean because his mother was Ethiopian? From what I know, he was born in a place called Sira in Yemen.
Originally posted by the lioness:
By the way Bilal was a black slave of Ethiopian origin. He was traded for another black slave, the other man was not freed because he was considered a heathen. Bilal was because he had converted to the slave master's religion and sang his song.quote:Lol, you're an idiot
Originally posted by Djehuti:Yes, I believe this confusion goes back to the mistranslation of 'black' to Ethiopian. Bilal is widely known in the Islamic world as an 'Ethiopian' even though he was Yemeni
LOL
He was a black Ethiopian who was born in Mecca you dimwit.
the son of an Abyssinian slave, Rabafi, who was sold into slavery in Ethiopia and transported across the Red Sea to Arabia where a rich Makkan trader bought him. The child of a slave, Bilal, was purchased in the slave market in Makkah by an Arab merchant, Umaya. His master treated him harshly and at times tortured him brutally.
.
quote:These types of remarks are from Arab historians who represent a legacy of the slave holding class.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[i]"It was not a slave revolt. It was a zanj, i.e. a Negro, revolt. To equate Negro with slave is a reflection of nineteenth-century racial theories; it could only apply to the American South before the Civil War."
Zanj cut sugar cane and worked in salt mines. Their jobs were to clear away the nitrous top soil that made the land arable. The working conditions were also considered to be extremely miserable and
dying of exhaustion was common.
The nature of who comprised the revolt is irrelevant to this point.
The Arabs removed the testicles of many of the male slaves. The female slaves they raped.
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
quote:Lioness do you know that all peoples throughout history had slaves?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
quote:yes and the wicked pratice still goes on today
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Lioness do you know that all peoples throughout history had slaves?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
quote:Perhaps it does. You didn't answer my question. I asked you if everything I said just now is clear to you and if you understand what I am saying. Do you now realize that the Arab that you keep mentioning treated Bilal badly was also black-skinned?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes and the wicked pratice still goes on today
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Lioness do you know that all peoples throughout history had slaves?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
quote:Frank Snowden:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Perhaps it does. You didn't answer my question. I asked you if everything I said just now is clear to you and if you understand what I am saying. Do you now realize that the Arab that you mentioning treated Bilal badly was also black-skinned?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes and the wicked pratice still goes on today
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Lioness do you know that all peoples throughout history had slaves?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
quote:Can you talk to me Lioness using your own words instead of just pasting a paragraph from an article? Do you want to say that though Banu Jumah were described as black-skinned, they weren't really black-skinned? Is this what you want to say by pasting this paragrah?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Frank Snowden:
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Perhaps it does. You didn't answer my question. I asked you if everything I said just now is clear to you and if you understand what I am saying. Do you now realize that the Arab that you mentioning treated Bilal badly was also black-skinned?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes and the wicked pratice still goes on today
Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Lioness do you know that all peoples throughout history had slaves?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Many of them gloss over the history of slavery as the practice had become institutionalized via Muslim conquests. They also try to make it seem like their version of slavery was the nice version. Women didn't have to work in the fields, they could stay in the house. And get raped. Men got their balls cut off. It was a good technique for keeping thoer population under control.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also what does this have to do with "Arab Historians"?? Explain..
Another frequent misconception in some discussions of the populations of the ancient world is the assumption that words or expressions describing people as dark--or black--skinned were always in classical usage the equivalents of "Ethiopians" i.e. Negroes, or, in twentieth century usage, blacks. Greeks and Romans, well acquainted with their contemporaries, differentiated between the various gradations of color in Mediterranean populations and made it clear that only some of the black- or dark-skinned peoples, those coming from the south of Egypt and the southern fringes of northwest Africa, were Ethiopians, i.e. Negroes. Ethiopians, known as the blackest peoples on earth, became the yardstick by which classical authors measured the color of others. In first century AD, Manilius described Ethiopians as the blackest; Indians, less sunburnt; Egyptians, mildly dark; with Moors the lightest in this color scheme. In other words, to all these peoples--Ethiopians, Indians, Egyptians, and Moors--who were darker than the Greeks and Romans, classical authors applied color-words but it should be emphasized that in general the ancients described only one of these--Ethiopians--as unmistakably Negroid. To summarize this point, there is no justification to equate Egyptians, Moors or any other north Africans, with Ethiopians, even when a color-word is applied to them, unless details are given as to other physical traits such as color, hair, nose, or lips, or unless there is additional evidence to support an equivalence with Ethiopian.
quote:Do you know what specific haplotypes you have?
Originally posted by NeferKemet:
Tariq, I have already told you that you were right in regards my arab origins. I did have my DNA tested, and my results have confirmed my paternal DNA matches are from "West, North, Central, and East Africa" to Oman, and my maternal DNA matches are from Yemen, Oman, and all the way to Pakistan. How is this possible? I have read your book, and didn't believe it until my DNA results came back, and proved what you said.
So, the question for me is where do these origins really come from? Arabia or "Africa"? Just because the frequencies are where they are now today, does that mean they originate from there?
quote:In Arabic, there are specific words that are used to described specific complexions and there are many different words used to describe complexions that today would be considered "black". One of these words is the term "white". A person who was called "white" by the Arabs of the past would be called "black" today.
Originally posted by the lioness:
in those periods "black" people could include
quote:But the Banu Jumah were described as "green" which means black in Arabic - black meaning black.
Originally posted by the lioness:
in those periods "black" people could include
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] ^ LOL Actually the man in the 2nd photo is NOT black
italians 
kemet or deshret
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ LOL Actually the man in the 2nd photo is NOT black
on what basis are you saying the man in the second photo is not black?quote:No sane person would call Barack Hussein Obama white. Anybody who saw him on the street with no foreknowledge would say that he's black.
Originally posted by the lion:
quote:On the basis of the very definition of black, you moron! His skin is not dark enough to be 'black'. Of course many African Americans with light skin due to mixed ancestry, especially those with a "high yellow" look are technically not black in color either but are still labeled as such for political reasons. It's a known fact, Malcolm X's grandmother was raped by a white man and even though there were classifications for multiracial people like 'mulatto', politically such people were still lumped in with other blacks and disowned by the white populace in attempt to preserve a false sense of racial 'purity'.
Originally posted by the lioness:
on what basis are you saying the man in the second photo is not black?
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:on what basis are you saying the man in the second photo is not black?
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti: On the basis of the very definition of black, you moron! His skin is not dark enough to be 'black'.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
Djehuti, 2 questions
You use the term "black" frequently. It's only fair you define this term if you are going to be using it so much. You used the phrase "technically black" and the phrase "politically black" For this discussion when I use the word black I will be referring to what you call "technically black" rather than "politically
black"
quote:No sane person would call Barack Hussein Obama white. Anybody who saw him on the street with no foreknowledge would say that he's black. [/qb][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by the lion:
quote:the above is addressed to Djehuti.
Originally posted by the lioness:
Djehuti, 2 questions
You use the term "black" frequently. It's only fair you define this term if you are going to be using it so much. You used the phrase "technically black" and the phrase "politically black" For this discussion when I use the word black I will be referring to what you call "technically black" rather than "politically
black"
QUESTION 1:
If "black" is a word that you use in describing people's skin color what word or words do you use to describe people who are not black?
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:on what basis are you saying the man in the second photo is not black?quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti: On the basis of the very definition of black, you moron! His skin is not dark enough to be 'black'.
Below are two examples of the color "black"
Are you claiming, "political definitions" aside that anyone who is not this color is technically not black?
example of a three dimensional black object
Then a whole of of Africans (and others) would not be as you said "technically black".
Look at the following color:
Someone might call this light black, or call it gray. It is closer to black than a similarly light shade of the color brown.
When you neutrally diluted version of black it's called gray.
Brown is a color that is produced by mixing red, yellow and blue. When the colors are mixed the amount of blue mixed in can control the level of darkness or lightness even though your eye can't pick out the blue because the red and yellow dominate visually over the blue. As in the above example of a "black" rock the rock is not the darkest black like the flat black paint sample above it yet no brown is present. You could also call it dark gray" or just attribute the grayness to lighting and still call it a black rock. Either way it doesn't matter, has no browness to it.
^^^density of blackness, gray ranges
But you want to include brown in your definition of "technically black" fine, let us proceed.
I have to ask you these questions because you used the term "technically black" so now we have to get technical. You can't assume that everybody would agree on exactly what that means.
If you are saying "technically black" includes certain browns, fine, the category of "technically black" would then not to have be literally "technically black" in terms of pure color allow would allow for certain browns if the term "technically black" is applied to people.
So if you are defining black as including a certain level of dark brown please indicate what that level of brownness is. You said that Malcom X and the second man below him are not "technically black" because they are both not dark enough to be "technically black" (although you say Malcom falls into the "politically black" category).
So if these men are not technically black and at the same time you allow for a certain level of dark brown to be considered "black" what precisely is the cut off point?
Malcom and the second man are not snow white. They are a certain shade of brown. Yet you say that some browns are not light enough to be considered "black" as in a "black person"
QUESTION 2:
Below is range of browns that have been numbered which is the number at which that shade of brown and shades lighter than it, to you, are not dark enough to match a "technically black" person?
(left to right)
___TOP ROW = 1,2,3
MIDDLE ROW = 4,5,6
BOTTOM ROW = 7,8,9
quote:this is actually what it all comes down to "black" means whatever you want it to mean. it's ridiculous
Originally posted by kenndo:
THEY LOOK BLACK,THEY DO NOT LOOK WHITE.
quote:what you are not understanding is that:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
he above is addressed to Djehuti.
What does Djehuti think. Again the direct quote from you said Anybody(This includes Djhuti) would think Barack Obama was "BLACK" if they saw him on the street. So I proved Obama and Malcolm X have the same features, thus it is on YOU to define why Malcolm X is black and not the other person because YOU made the claim that "ANYBODY(Including Djhuti) would see Obama(Malcom X) as Black. Simply saying this is for Djuhuti does not so away with the fact that you are blatanly contradicting your self here.
Not what do you think the lioness' answer to the question is. Let us not be obsessed on me all the time, this is Djehuti's moment Lets thin about this, You asked Djhuti why Maclom X is black compared to aonther man who is not even of his same ethnicity is not, while in the same breath claiming a man who has the same features, skin, hair and ethnicity would be recognized as Black by "Anybody" thus your questioning of Djhuti is contradiction at best and hypocritical at worse when you are taking issiue with him when you believe same damn thing.
If you can not understand this, you are beyond stupid.
quote:Originally posted by kenndo:
THEY LOOK BLACK,THEY DO NOT LOOK WHITE.
this is actually what it all comes down to "black" means whatever you want it to mean. it's ridiculous
Djeutie didn't answer the questions because he couldn't
Again a contradiction on your part and proof of your hypocrisy, You claim Obama who has Skin, Features, and ethnicity as Malcolm X would be recognized as "black" by "Anyone" yet you claim the use of black by other posters is "ridiculous" yet you use the word to describe Obama, who has the similar features as Malcolm X(besides the red hair), in essence you are also Ridiculous.
You are pathetic.
quote:The term "mulatto" is irrelevant to whether a person is "black" or "white" according to Egyptsearch definitions.
Originally posted by Mike111:
Lioness - This man is an obvious mulatto.
quote:regardless of speculation on your part we only need to look at one of the cases:
Originally posted by Mike111:
[QB] [b]Lioness - You are such a Dim-wit.
Black Parents have white baby = Albino!
White Parents have Black baby = Nigger in the Wood pile!
quote:LOL Obviously the redneck "professor" is only lying to himself to claim they "don't look black". Really, if the 'professor' or any of his white friends saw people who look like Egyptian royals in physical appearance there would be no doubt on their color or 'race' label would be.
Originally posted by Hammeredbrains:
many of those pieces of art Djehuti posted, in fact, do not look black. That they are black is the view of the lunatio fringe. the same kind of people who believe in UFO's and Bigfoot promote black Egyptians.
quote:LOL No what's ridiculous is your absurd lies! The meaning of black is quite clear, buffoon! You just don't want to accept it!
Originally posted by the lyingass:
this is actually what it all comes down to "black" means whatever you want it to mean. it's ridiculous
quote:Your question was answered a LONG TIME AGO. Of course you just ignored it because of the deranged lying fool that you are.
Djeuti didn't answer the questions because he couldn't
quote:Good idea Djehuti!
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Mr. Berry and everyone else with intelligence, perhaps we should move on and get back to the topic which is about Muhammad and his tribe and whether or not they were black.
Leave the Lyingass's strawmen arguments and false accusations alone. They are mere distractions from the argument at hand and are a desperate save face from her total and utter defeat in other threads where she failed to prove the Egyptians to be anything else but black.
quote:Like I said the dividing line between "dark-skinned" and almost but "not dark skinned"
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:LOL No what's ridiculous is your absurd lies! The meaning of black is quite clear, buffoon! You just don't want to accept it!
Originally posted by the lyingass:
this is actually what it all comes down to "black" means whatever you want it to mean. it's ridiculous
Dictionary.com
21.
( sometimes initial capital letter )
a.
a member of any of various dark-skinned peoples, esp. those of Africa, Oceania, and Australia.
Now how about YOU define what "caucasian" is since it is obvious it means whatever YOU want it to mean.
quote:Your question was answered a LONG TIME AGO. Of course you just ignored it because of the deranged lying fool that you are.
Djeuti didn't answer the questions because he couldn't
quote:The definition is quite clear. You're right that there is no straightforward dividing line as skin color grades, however any moron knows the difference between a black person and white person and of course those in between would be labeled as 'brown'.
Originally posted by the lioness:
Like I said the dividing line between "dark-skinned" and almost but "not dark skinned"
is not clear at all.
The dividing point between "black" and "white" is whatever given person decides it to be.
Are there more terms that refer specifically to color that people could be categorized into?
Again the answer to this question is not clear at all. Now supposedly, assuming that the dictionary.com represents truth:
"esp. those of Africa, Oceania, and Australia"
quote:Of course he's black! His skin complexion is no different from most equatorial Africans. Stop the nonsense.
does this mean that the following man is not black:
or is he still black because they said "esp." (especially) but not exclusively?
quote:Incorrect as usual. 'Negro' and 'caucasian' are racial terms that are invalid and bankrupt since race does not exist. 'White' and 'black' are labels based on description on skin color which does exist. I gave you the definition of black, can you define "caucasian" or "negro"? You still fail to provide these definition even though its been asked of you for weeks now. Therefore you are dismissed.
Jari, you calling any of this clear is a from of retardation. It's also actually a lie to call it clear. It's a lie that persists so you can have the flexibility to call anybody black or white for arbitrary reason.
You try to shoot down the term "Negro" and "Caucasoid" yet use the very same definition and insert the word "black". hypocrisy again
Are there other categories for mankind other than "Negroid" ? What are the names of these categories or is everybody "black"
All of these recent scientific article getting posted do the scientists use the terms "black" and "white"?
Oh those terms are perfectly clear. Now let's take a Chinese person with light skin. You have shown us how perfectly clear these terms "black" and "white" are so what category do Chinese people many of whom are light skinned, fall into? You're not going to say "yellow" now are you? You set up a color premise, so they are "white" then?
All of this is crystal clear. Just look it up in the dic tionary honey. Even anguish of being knows that the term "black" is arbitrary
quote:Djehuti: you contradict yourself, here with obvious doublespeak. You say the issue is quite clear (straightforward) then in the next sentence you say it is not straightforward (unclear). You have been exposed.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:The definition is quite clear. You're right that there is no straightforward dividing line as skin color grades
Originally posted by the lioness:
Like I said the dividing line between "dark-skinned" and almost but "not dark skinned"
is not clear at all.
The dividing point between "black" and "white" is whatever given person decides it to be.
Are there more terms that refer specifically to color that people could be categorized into?
Again the answer to this question is not clear at all. Now supposedly, assuming that the dictionary.com represents truth:
"esp. those of Africa, Oceania, and Australia"
quote:obviously you have a problem interpreting colors. The man's hair black his skin is a shade of brown. Notice the difference. Well what would a lighter shade of black be? It would be gray, still not black.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
however any moron knows the difference between a black person and white person and of course those in between would be labeled as 'brown'.
does this mean that the following man is not black:
or is he still black because they said "esp." (especially) but not exclusively?
Of course he's black! His skin complexion is no different from most equatorial Africans. Stop the nonsense.
quote:And exactly where did I contradict myself?! I said the definition of black is quite clear! I also said there is no dividing ling between black and white i.e. people are not just black or white only! LOL
Originally posted by the lyinass-dummy:
Djehuti: you contradict yourself, here with obvious doublespeak. You say the issue is quite clear (straightforward) then in the next sentence you say it is not straightforward (unclear). You have been exposed.
Again you resort to distorting my words in a desperate attempt to prove your nonsensical notion that can never hold up! quote:More strawman sh|t! First of all, NO human being is the actual color or shade of 'black' in skin. Black is a label used to describe very dark complexions or those that approach that color. Even the darkest skin equatorial Africans are not the actual color black. Second, the definition of black didn't say anything about the equator you nitwit! And last, most Africans who don't live around the equator are still considered black. The man in the picture is Indian and last time I checked while India may not be on the equator it is still in the tropics and on the same latitudes as Sudan or Nigeria, stupid! Of course the Egyptians are hundreds of miles from the equator but so are the Nubians whom YOU label as 'black' even though they live only a few miles from Egypt!
obviously you have a problem interpreting colors. The man's hair black his skin is a shade of brown. Notice the difference. Well what would a lighter shade of black be? It would be gray, still not black.
But for the sake of argument let's go along with this corruption of language and say that this man is "black" like his hair and that equatorial Africans are also "black".
Therefore many non-equatorial Africans including the people of ancient Egypt which is among the least equatorial regions in Africa, according to your own definition are not black.
I ask you will you now follow your own instructions and stop calling brown people "black"?
quote:
You've been outed my mellow.
Your only recourse now is to not address this and start attacking lioness like a flea
ROTFLMAO The only one outed is YOU as the idiot you usually are! YOU are the one guilty of double speaking, not I! Tell me why do you consider a Nigerian person black but not an Indian who is of the same exact complexion, or even an Egyptian who is both of the same complexion AND is a fellow African??!
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
in between would be labeled as 'brown'.
quote:Is this Arab history by a Lyin_snake or what?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:I know about the period when when most of the white people were enslaved, but the period when most of the white people were enslaved was also a period when most people enslaved by the Arabs were not white.
quote:Hmmmm..."many tribes united under one flag" - that's a new one. I wonder why we have to remember this when Egyptologists say otherwise.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:sometimes but usually they indicate a difference. As jari said:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
[QB] They use black for painting the Kushites.
They also used the same Brown Color to paint the Kushites that "They" used to paint themselves..
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
OT: Egyptians and Art: Does the Dark Brown only occur in the Armana » Post A Reply
We have to remember that Egypt was a Nation of many tribes united under one flag, so not one Phenotype was present..We have Dark, Light, and in between in Egypt.
quote:Like I 've said before Snaky - you've been living in Sweden to long. We all know in Germany and other parts of very blond Europe such people as Iranians and Turks are called black.
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:[IMG]
are these people "brown" or "black" ?
your methodology is completely arbitrary in applying these terms. It 's particularly arbitrary when used to discuss information in scientific journals.
All you're doing is kissing up to your audience. If you think your audience wants to hear given person called "black" and other given person called "white" or "brown" you tell them what they want to hear (although you never ever actually apply this term "brown person" and use "white" infrequently
So when calling people "black" or white" your audience aren't going to ask any questions about what these words specifically mean or don't mean mean if who they are being applied appeals to their emotions.
But when looking at statistics, measurements and graphs all of the sudden this vague approach is unacceptable. Then we go over all the numbers with a fine tooth comb, do the math and attempt to use precision.
What a charade.
quote:Keep saying it - your Snakiness - and maybe it will come true - in that delusional head of yours. The slave you posted for all we know is a Yemenite silly! And the Turko-Persian features of the slavers are more than obvious. Which style of Eurasian art was that again - Seljuk or what?
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
If you were to listen to awlaadberry he would tell you there were no black slaves taken in earlier preiods from the Rashidun to the Abbasid and also prior to Muhammad. The picture I posted earlier is a slave market in Yemen in the 13th century.
The account of the conquest of Egypt which I just mentioned including it's tributaries paid in slaves and other goods and a disrespect for Egyptian culture.
quote:Jari make sure you upload these photos on a new post. People like Snakiness need to know that these Central Asian people (such as the above) during this period often depicted Arabs, Moors, Ethiopians and everyone else the same way.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Lioness I understand what you are saying, but if you notice I don't usually post pics like this:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:yes I realize this and I also realize that the import of black slaves from Africa was much larger in number in any period of Islamic history. The numbers of white vs. black slaves is irrelevant anyway.
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:White Washing what history, you do realize that in the beginning of Islamic slave history slaves were imported from Europe
Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb] jari you are a disgrace for not speaking against this white washing of history
If you were to listen to awlaadberry he would tell you there were no black slaves taken in earlier preiods from the Rashidun to the Abbasid and also prior to Muhammad. The picture I posted earlier is a slave market in Yemen in the 13th century.
The account of the conquest of Egypt which I just mentioned including it's tributaries paid in slaves and other goods and a disrespect for Egyptian culture.
or like the Slave market scene, why because I was working in a Library last semeseter and I had access to a lot of books. Anyway, I came upon a book on Islamic art and it had Images of the Arabs fighting "Ethiopians" and the Ethiopian Army was stark white(Ill try to upload some images to show you what I mean.), some of that art is not reliable just like the Orientalist paintings. Im not saying slaves were not imported from Ethiopia and East Africa, nor do I think Alwaad is denying this. However Alwaad is right that white slaves were used more until the Ottoman Turks gained power and banned the sale of White Slaves. Does this justify the enslavement of Africans, no.
quote:its abeed
can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
quote:Jari werent you the one in one of your post saying how much you hate arabs and islam??
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^^
Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Jari Productions..
quote:no not really the creation of these places was not from the arabs. they were simply carriers and fighters for the religion. the technology part is from the non-arabs. this is mentioned in the religion and discussed by the scholars. everybody just went under the name of arabs. no different than america. contributions to the united states came from various demographics other than the ethnicity of the ruling class but they all went under the name of american. an example would be the american revolutionary war which involved peoples such as hugenots, haitians, french, native americans, african americans, and etc.. it was kinda common back in the day. different groups under one flag. christopher columbus is an example. white americans are even made of majority non-anglo groups who later became white. in south africa the chinese are legally black so bascially who did this and who did that would go to all who were involved under the particular flag.
Abdulbenson, ...
The Abbasid Caliphate or, more simply, the Abbasids (Arabic: العبّاسيّون / ISO 233: al-‘abbāsīyūn), was the third of the Islamic caliphates. It was ruled by the Abbasid dynasty of caliphs, who built their capital in Baghdad after overthrowing the Umayyad caliphs from all but the Al Andalus region.
So then Bhagdad was the Creation of White Arabs...Hmm interesting...
So then would it be fair to say the Black Arabs created Petra and Islam..(LOL)...Too bad for Bhagdad in their list of accomplishments
quote:the issue is a shadowed by all kinds of ignorance. arabs(some) know this but they are not in charge of media or book publishing. arab nations(government) you have to understand work for westerners and the white agenda was birthed amongst the arabized population b 4 the coming of the europeans to exacerbate the problem. awlaadberry is doing his part which is good and ive seen arabs copy and paste his stuff on other websites, so his work is actually spreading amongst arab populations. southern populations(yemen, oman) were not the only places were dark-skinned populations existed qahtaan and adnaani arabs were all dark-skinned and these people migrated to different parts of the peninsula
Adbulbenson...I understand what you are saying and like I said it makes sense the the some Arabs like the southern Arabs were black due to the proximity of the Gulf of Aden. At the same time these Arabs need to be recognized if as you and Aswani claim that Arabic speakers know the original arabs were black. Its kind of pathetic they get no recognition in Modern Arab/Islamic History, Even Black Americans get some recognition.
quote:I really don't care what black Americans do on YouTube I only said that so that it would make jari angry I acknowledge all of my African brothers whether there in Africa the Americas Australia or Europe I just have no respect for people who debate whites on how great African culture is yet when it comes to an African they would talk them down as if they were nothing.
Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
@Asante
I consider my people to be among the various Mande-speaking groups in West Africa. But you can't use Youtube as a way to knock Black Americans. Everybody puts crap on Youtube...Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs...why just focus on Blacks??? I personally believe our culture has been hijacked & too defined by the media but that's a different topic. So how do Asante & Mande people get along in Africa?
quote:Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^^
Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Gundislavus "the Iberian" Productions..
quote:Jari is probably Gundislavus a fake and likely Iberian who likes to call blacks monkeys and clowns both here and on you tube. he is probably not black or African which is why he feels threatened when people speak about Moors and Arabs as black AS DO ALL ANCIENT DOCUMENTS.
Originally posted by asante:
^^^
your ancestor came from west africa like it or not your people were ashanti get over it you are not ethiopian or egyptian your just angry because i exposed you as the lying hypocrite that you truly are.
Trust me you dont have a fan club you probaly dont even have any friends.
And its plain and simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us its bad enought that we have you black americans making us look bad with all your youtube videos, sara suten seti, ashra kwesi, moors, nation of islam and black hebrew israelite bullshit
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
^^^^
Yasmin can you please explain why modern Arabs call blacks "Abdeed" if your "Prophet" was black??
Also When did the White Arabs become dominant in the Muslim world??
Thanks..
BTW welcome to the Forum...Join your Arab Brother Alwaad Berry who is the main poster representing for the Black Arabs...
A-Salaam-Alaykum...
Gundislavus "the Iberian" Productions..
These original north Arabians K'ab the al Muntafik Beni Amir or Hawazin in Iraq are today called Abeed because they are "black" - PERIOD.
How many times do you have to be told Gundislavus the early Arabs or Arabians in general were black a people from Yarab descendant of Saba like the rest of Qahtan. Their true descendants still claim to come from Africa originally. "Arab" is a language and nationality today and anyone can call themselves Arab.
Jahiz wrote, “if the Arabs are reddish, then they belong to the Rum (Byzantines), Saqaliba (Slavs), Persians and Khurasanis...."
Non-Arabs like Persians and Khurasanis took over the Islamic world in the Abbasid period. You might want to look up some history of the Middle East. They disliked black peoples like the Arabs who had originally conquered them and treated as slaves.
Rumi a PERSIAN wrote to Abbasid leaders in the 9th century - "You insulted (the family of the Prophet) because of their blackness (bi-l-sawad), while there are still deep black, PURE_BLOODED ARABS. However, you are white – the Romans (Byzantines) have embellished your faces with their color." (cited by Berry and Wesley Muhammad, 2010, p. 29).
From the account of Ma Huang admiral of Zheng He of the 14th century explorer - "The Country of the Heavenly Square“… from Zhida (today’s Jedda or Jiddah) you go West and after traveling for one day you reach the city where the king resides. It is named the capital city of Moqie (Mecca)… They profess the Muslim religion a holy man first expanded and spread the doctrine of his teaching in this country, and right down to the present day the people of the country all observe the regulations of the doctrine in their actions, not daring to commit the slightest transgression.
The people of this country are stalwart and fine looking, and their limbs and faces are of a dark purple color”.
There “are two main categories of blacks in Iraq, mostly in the south, who total about 300,000: those of East African origin numbering around 100,000; and those of whom are Arab and originate from the Hejaz, claiming to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, who moved to this country mostly in the 1750s and 1980s. The latter are mostly from the Muntafek tribe... " now available for purchase at Amazon.com Iraq's Blacks”, APS Diplomat Redrawing the Islamic Map (Newsletter), December 15, 2008, Arab Press Service, Volume: 56 Issue: 6; Distributed by Gale, a part of Cengage Learning Volume 56 Issue: 6
All early Arab tribes are at one time called black or near black with kinky hair. ALL OF THEM! This includes the Kindites except for Sasak and Sakun whom Tabari describes as black with straight hair. The Azd or Kahlan tribes, the Qays or Sulaym (black as lava and Hawazin (modern Abeed of Iraq) the Bakir bin Wail (still black) the Anaeza and Lakhimids of the Azd and Lihyan now called Lahiyan of the Hudhail (with black and shining skins todya), the Tayyi, Shammar and Madhij whose leader Shuraik al Cadi (el -Ca'idah) said a fair-skinned Arab is INCONCEIVABLE and one of the 7 rare things in this world in the 7th century (according to a Cordoban work the Precious Necklace written by an Arabized Iranian in the 9th.).
Iraqi's are people the Arabs conquered. "White Syrians", Iranians and Turks are peoples the Arabs conquered and Arabized - PERIOD. These people are called the "red " men by early Arab peoples and some of their descendants now occupy the peninsula among the original black or Arab populations. It doesn't mean these people can not be called Arabs today.
All of the southern and northern tribes - the Kedarenes (Nabataeans)are called black in documents - As late as the 14th century Andalusian descended Ibn Khaldun says the largest group of the north Arabians were the Beni Amir bin Zaza tribes represented today by the ABID of Iraq , Kab, Uqayl Khafaja, Khazael in Khuzestan and southern Iraq living BLACKS i.e. real Arabs!
“Tung Tien” and “T’ang History” written in the 8th and 10th centuries in China respectively have notices regarding the visit of early delegations from the Hijaz. They mention that men from the country of the Arabs “are black and bearded” and “have high noses” (cited in Muhammad, p. 194, Black Arabia. 2009). The delegations involved were led by S'ad ibn Waqqas and his father CLOSE relatives of MOHAMMAD.
I guess I will have to report the other hundred accounts of what the Arabians looked like later when I am able to come back to the forum since some of us aren't getting the gist of the problem, but I couldn't let your Iberian nonsense stand for long.
quote:
Originally posted by dana marniche:
I forgot to add according to Richard Burton the Hijaz area or eastern Arabia was universally called East Africa and in south Arabia the land of SHEM up until the 20th century when colonialist Europeans changed it.
Mecca in recent times is also a place occupied totally by descendants foreigners taking Abyssinian concubines according to encylopedias of the early 20th and late 19th centuries.
quote:
Originally posted by alurubenson:
quote:the issue is a shadowed by all kinds of ignorance. arabs(some) know this but they are not in charge of media or book publishing. arab nations(government) you have to understand work for westerners and the white agenda was birthed amongst the arabized population b 4 the coming of the europeans to exacerbate the problem. awlaadberry is doing his part which is good and ive seen arabs copy and paste his stuff on other websites, so his work is actually spreading amongst arab populations. southern populations(yemen, oman) were not the only places were dark-skinned populations existed qahtaan and adnaani arabs were all dark-skinned and these people migrated to different parts of the peninsula
Adbulbenson...I understand what you are saying and like I said it makes sense the the some Arabs like the southern Arabs were black due to the proximity of the Gulf of Aden. At the same time these Arabs need to be recognized if as you and Aswani claim that Arabic speakers know the original arabs were black. Its kind of pathetic they get no recognition in Modern Arab/Islamic History, Even Black Americans get some recognition.
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Also I read your page about the black Arabs, do you have any original sources to back up your claims?? Are there any University or schorlarly references to the originals???
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
I don't believe all arabs were black, I believe her and Alwaadberry have a point that the Southern Arabs of the 6th century were black, as it makes no sense that black populations that live a hop and skip away like the Sabans and Ethiopians, and Eritreans were black.
quote:^^^^
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Have'nt you ever thought that Muhammed said this because there were "Non Egyptians" In Egypt who ruled and that the real Egyptians were the Kinky haired and black residents. When the Muslims attacked Egypt it was the Greeks who were ruling at the Time that fought and defended against the Muslims, normal Egyptians unless they were threatened by the removal of Greek powers did not fight the Muslims.
In essence Muhammed could be saying, in Regards to Egypt.."Remember the Kinky Haired black Egyptians are your Kin" I.E not the Greek and Mixed Egyptians who controlled the Delta and Alexandria and the Richer cities...I.E don't harm them(The Black Kinky Haired..YOUR KIN).
For instance if a bunch of Africans took over Europe for 300 plus years and subjugated the Native whites and then a White Powerful Army from America decideds to Invade Europe, would it not make sense if the LEader of the resistance said.."Remember the Blond, Fair skinned Europeans are you Kin, so treat them well and don't harm them"..to folks who have not been to Europe in 300 Plus yrs, who don't really know who to attack..So Muhammed could be saying "Don't Go on a Killing Spree, Remember the Blacks with Kinky hair are your Kin"...
You are obviously taking things out of proportion...which is so typical of you.
quote:
Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
If anything the Orignal Arabs probably looked like Dravidians, and other Eastern Kushites. Kush was also associated with India.
quote:banu 2mir and hawazin dem my peeps awlaad sa3yd represent ashawiya 2 d fullest
Goldenberg states in the Curse of Ham, “This view of the Arab as dark-skinned is also found among other peoples as is indicated by the term arap (i.e. Arab) meaning black African in modern Turkish, Greek and Russian as well as in Yiddish.” (Goldenberg, p 2003. 124) Today, the lesser modified remnants of the Arab tribes once known to have been settled as far North as Turkey and Greece in the Medieval period are still found in southern Mesopotamia among the Beni Amir or Hawazin tribes who figure among those “blacks” facing “racial discrimination in what was Mesopotamia modern and called ABEED along with the descendants of the Zanj!
These original north Arabians K'ab the al Muntafik Beni Amir or Hawazin in Iraq are today called Abeed because they are "black" - PERIOD.
quote:I totally agree ive never seen a so called if he even is "african american" who goes on african forums and disrespect our people so much.
Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Jari is probably Gundislavus a fake and likely Iberian who likes to call blacks monkeys and clowns both here and on you tube. he is probably not black or African which is why he feels threatened when people speak about Moors and Arabs as black AS DO ALL ANCIENT DOCUMENTS.
Originally posted by asante:
^^^
your ancestor came from west africa like it or not your people were ashanti get over it you are not ethiopian or egyptian your just angry because i exposed you as the lying hypocrite that you truly are.
Trust me you dont have a fan club you probaly dont even have any friends.
And its plain and simple if you dont like africans dont talk about us its bad enought that we have you black americans making us look bad with all your youtube videos, sara suten seti, ashra kwesi, moors, nation of islam and black hebrew israelite bullshit