posted 28 November 2003 07:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Hey Laura,

I am happy you're around, I noticed your silence yesterday!!! nothing new on Fauna and Flora and i thought you must be taking a break.
This thread is special don't you think...all sorts of issues, I guess it's a unique blend!

By the way, I found something with snow for you....yes yes ...I'm sending it today!
Later!
Monica

---

How ya doooooin Monica haha

OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Banners rising.....drums beating....and a Fanfare of Trumpets PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.!!!!

THIS IS THE 400TH POST AND I TAKE EXTREME PLEASURE IN THE FACT I AM THE ONE DOING IT

Some Cartwheels Please Ms Jen...

TADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

laughing

Laura (working of her new addition to flora and fauna)

posted 28 November 2003 08:04 AM            

Soooo congrats dear fiend!

And...don't you leave now...

GIVE US YOUR OPINION ON MARRIAGE
Reasons why yes, vs no etc etc...

Looking forward to your next Fauna and Flora article.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
How ya doooooin Monica haha

OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Banners rising.....drums beating....and a Fanfare of Trumpets PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.!!!!

THIS IS THE 400TH POST AND I TAKE EXTREME PLEASURE IN THE FACT I AM THE ONE DOING IT

Some Cartwheels Please Ms Jen...

TADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

laughing

Laura (working of her new addition to flora and fauna)

---

posted 28 November 2003 08:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Lauraaaaaaaa....

Soooo congrats dear fiend!

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 November 2003).]

---

FIEND>>>FIEND!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHaH

I just had to capture this one word hahahahaha...ya funny inteeeee

Now let me finish my other post and will start with this "marriage" stuff

Laura

posted 28 November 2003 08:41 AM            

LAUGHING OUT LOUD ....but seriously...

I'm greatful that you are creating joy for others...with that thread of yours.

I'll check it out.

It's snowing lightly here...and in Alexandria too, right?!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
FIEND>>>FIEND!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHaH

I just had to capture this one word hahahahaha...ya funny inteeeee

Now let me finish my other post and will start with this "marriage" stuff

Laura

---

posted 28 November 2003 09:30 AM            

Concerning marriage after divorce, the one and I repeat ONE important thing you need to do, is some real soul searching as to why you chose the partner you did. Granted there can be some situations that you truly had no control over, but in general, there is usually a reason why you chose someone to commit your life to, and then found that this was a mistake. Take some time for an evaluation of who you are and what you really want, admit to yourself any shortcomings you may have, and if you find there are areas of self improvement you need to work on, then do it. Do it for yourself.

I think lack of self-esteem is a major contributor to choosing the wrong partner. If this is missing it has a very negative effect on a marriage. Inner strength and confidence is vital not only to you but to your partner also, as marriage is a growth process you will need these very valuable assets to survive the challenges ahead of you.

For me personally, marriage gives you a level of intimacy that cannot be achieved with any other type of relationship. It holds a (lifelong commitment) of trust, sharing, satisfaction that can only be found in this type of relationship. Some women say they value their independence, but a marriage does not have to be a “prison term”, so to speak. If you have chosen wisely, your partner will know your needs, and respect them. The key here is to know whom you are marrying. Know how he/she reacts to as many different types of situations as possible. Know that you can trust this person, in all ways.

Viva Marriage!!

Laura

posted 28 November 2003 09:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear fiend!!!

LAUGHING OUT LOUD ....but seriously...

I'm greatful that you are creating joy for others...with that thread of yours.

I'll check it out.

It's snowing lightly here...and in Alexandria too, right?!!!

---

Thanks Monica, hope others see something they enjoy also

Came back from Cairo last night and its cold here in Alex, but no snow yet..I will keep dreaming for that day ..am truly greatful though for at least some nice cold rains..ahhhh..refreshing...

The fiend

posted 28 November 2003 09:38 AM            

"The key here is to know whom you are marrying".

That's a real tough one!!

Unfortunately, many people hide their real personality for a very long time!!!

C'est la vie!

Viva freedom!

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Some women say they value their independence, but a marriage does not have to be a “prison term”, so to speak. If you have chosen wisely, your partner will know your needs, and respect them. The key here is to know whom you are marrying. Know how he/she reacts to as many different types of situations as possible. Know that you can trust this person, in all ways.

Viva Marriage!!

Laura

---

posted 28 November 2003 01:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
I agree with you Laura in regards with:

"The key here is to know whom you are marrying".

That's a real tough one!!

Unfortunately, many people hide their real personality for a very long time!!!

C'est la vie!

Viva freedom!

Monica

---

posted 28 November 2003 01:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
How mature is 'mature'? he he he...

Could you please describe the characteristics of a decent mature Egyptian Man for all women that read this board?

---

I'm actually asking this question in a forum full of women.

Do decent mature men actually exists?

Ok, I will tell U:

1- Men who don't lie and cheat.
2- Men who don't put you down so they can feel better about themselves.
3- Men who are not scared of a strong, outspoken, blunt woman.
4- Men who actually have a romantic side and know how to use it.
5- Decent men who treat you well and don't walk out on you, who care for you and who don't act like they are better than you are.
6- Remain Focused on the Game.
7- Stay Calm.
8- Demonstrate Charisma.
9- In one word: Be A Man, Not A Boy.

First, most of these qualities are prescribed elsewhere in all the holly books for every person, including women.

Second, maturity takes time, effort, and discipline.

Third, no one is perfectly qualified.

Decency and maturinty is harder to find than it once was--perhaps more difficult than ever.

But, it still can be found; and it is still worth the effort.

But the question to all nice women out there: Would you choose a man like that to be your partner?????????????

I have to say from experience, although I thought I did everything I could that a person wanted from me. It was not enough to save the relationship, once they were on the road to leaving, it was a little too late.

posted 28 November 2003 02:32 PM            

Marriage implies security and stability – that is of what we grow up believing. There is a financial security of two people being responsible for each other, the security of having someone in case you get sick or have an accident, or whatever.

people get married for different reasons, like for security, money, sex, may never get a chance, pregnancy, their parents want them to, they want to move away from home, to have children, they are lonely, "if i don't get him or her will someone else", marriage is romantic, they have been acting for long time and it would be hard to back out of things now.

The thing is that some people say that its better to wait for one-two years what will be, how you'll be and that pregnancy at the beginning of a marriage are not a good combination that couple has to wait for some time to stabilize everything before having their first child.
Its for those who are already together.

Now let me look at this from another corner.
Being alone - is not the same thing as being lonely. Usually, people who are really alone consider themself as with some passion as art, music, philosophy, religion, or whatever and moreover you seldom heard them complaining or that they are lonely.

Now, another corner, for those who find another reasons completely different for getting married i mean not getting married which are he or she is not wealthy, intelligent, passionate in bed, beautiful or handsome, whatever you may remember about someone from a past relationship. So, i mean that they are waiting for someone brave, handsome, romantic, charming on white horses (i'm sorry to note this as there is someone i'm sure). People, you are going to have a long and possibly lonely wait (actually, this is about me but i told that i answer later).

Now, I’d like to tell some reasons why some people get married:

(1) marrying for money only;
(2) waiting to leave your parental home;
(3) wanting children;
(4) to prove you’re not a gay;
(5) social pressure, like all your friends are getting married – so, be it.
(6) you are born to be a good wife or husband and not responsible for something great.

Sorry, guys, I think that for today this is the end, you know the thing is that I want to get marred him but I can’t find the answer WHY… Monica, it’s like a … ok, I will think about this but just one thing I know for sure I know this is HIM and I feel great and I know that everything will be OK but let me think first or may be shouldn’t?

LOVE is AS AN ALIANT EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THERE IS BUT NOBODY CAN EXPLAIN IN WORDS WHAT IT IS..

posted 28 November 2003 03:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear fiend!!!

LAUGHING OUT LOUD ....but seriously...

I'm greatful that you are creating joy for others...with that thread of yours.

---

posted 28 November 2003 03:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
For me personally, marriage gives you a level of intimacy that cannot be achieved with any other type of relationship. It holds a (lifelong commitment) of trust, sharing, satisfaction that can only be found in this type of relationship. Some women say they value their independence, but a marriage does not have to be a “prison term”, so to speak. If you have chosen wisely, your partner will know your needs, and respect them. The key here is to know whom you are marrying. Know how he/she reacts to as many different types of situations as possible. Know that you can trust this person, in all ways.

Viva Marriage!!

Laura

---

posted 28 November 2003 03:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
I'm actually asking this question in a forum full of women.

Do decent mature men actually exists?

Ok, I will tell U:

1- Men who don't lie and cheat.
2- Men who don't put you down so they can feel better about themselves.
3- Men who are not scared of a strong, outspoken, blunt woman.
4- Men who actually have a romantic side and know how to use it.
5- Decent men who treat you well and don't walk out on you, who care for you and who don't act like they are better than you are.
6- Remain Focused on the Game.
7- Stay Calm.
8- Demonstrate Charisma.
9- In one word: Be A Man, Not A Boy.

First, most of these qualities are prescribed elsewhere in all the holly books for every person, including women.

Second, maturity takes time, effort, and discipline.

Third, no one is perfectly qualified.

Decency and maturinty is harder to find than it once was--perhaps more difficult than ever.

But, it still can be found; and it is still worth the effort.

But the question to all nice women out there: Would you choose a man like that to be your partner?????????????

I have to say from experience, although I thought I did everything I could that a person wanted from me. It was not enough to save the relationship, once they were on the road to leaving, it was a little too late.

---

10 - men who understand rather than hear and communicate rather than talk
11 - creativity

posted 28 November 2003 03:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Dear members,
First of all i'd like you to forgive me for missing me again of reading your last posts.

---

i'm the first to do that sorry, just fooling around

posted 28 November 2003 04:57 PM            

Super post!!!

You're so right, it's hard to understand why someone loves that one, or this one for sure; I agree with you. It hits and it's 'bye bye' rest of the world...and I guess you have to go through your experience and live it, and I wish you great happiness.

When I said Viva freedom, I was referring to my situation now. I enjoy not being married for the moment. Whereas Laura said Viva marriage, because she is enjoying marriage now.

If I ever meet a man with the qualities that are absolutely necessary for a good marriage, in my eyes, maybe then, I will say Viva marriage !!!

And just for fun, here is a description of the 'ideal' qualities in a man for a good marriage as per my 'humble' opinion( provided the chemistry is right):

An available (no other wives) very kind, caring and decent man, with very high morals, who won't lie and cheat, who won't put his wife or ANYONE down so he can feel better about himself, who would respect the fact that his wife is an intelligent, outspoken straigth woman, who would be highly educated, a reader with a romantic side and a great sense of humour. Who would NOT be a double standard, who would treat his wife EXACTLY as she treats him. Very clean, and who absolutely hates the 2 wives or more, syndrome, and last but not least, who would genuinely love Egypt.

And if all these qualities exist in ONE man... well, good for him, he he he...and he should be very proud of himself!

Salam,

Monica

posted 29 November 2003 08:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear Jamilah,

Super post!!!

You're so right, it's hard to understand why someone loves that one, or this one for sure; I agree with you. It hits and it's 'bye bye' rest of the world...and I guess you have to go through your experience and live it, and I wish you great happiness.

When I said Viva freedom, I was referring to my situation now. I enjoy not being married for the moment. Whereas Laura said Viva marriage, because she is enjoying marriage now.

If I ever meet a man with the qualities that are absolutely necessary for a good marriage, in my eyes, maybe then, I will say Viva marriage !!!

And just for fun, here is a description of the 'ideal' qualities in a man for a good marriage as per my 'humble' opinion( provided the chemistry is right):

An available (no other wives) very kind, caring and decent man, with very high morals, who won't lie and cheat, who won't put his wife or ANYONE down so he can feel better about himself, who would respect the fact that his wife is an intelligent, outspoken straigth woman, who would be highly educated, a reader with a romantic side and a great sense of humour. Who would NOT be a double standard, who would treat his wife EXACTLY as she treats him. Very clean, and who absolutely hates the 2 wives or more, syndrome, and last but not least, who would genuinely love Egypt.

And if all these qualities exist in ONE man... well, good for him, he he he...and he should be very proud of himself!

Salam,

Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 November 2003).]

---

HMMM am I the only one who is thinking that Monica's list almost matches Adoula's ...

posted 29 November 2003 08:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
HMMM am I the only one who is thinking that Monica's list almost matches Adoula's ...

hehe
the fiend

---

posted 29 November 2003 08:44 AM            

I just went back to Adoula's list...( my friend too) well, I have to say that the man has a great mind!

But speaking of minds...it's only 4 of us that regularly contribute to this multiple choice type of a thread! Pity!!! There are many that could join, I noticed 'newcomer' she is a very wise woman I find her very well informed. But lately, I also noticed that many members adopted 'silence'!?

I guess it goes by phases.

Baba_Mido and fanta also disappeared....

But anyway, DID YOU KNOW that:

Antique shopping in Alexandria is quite a treat. For the interested, it is located in the 'Atareen' area. Some little treasures - at very reasonable prices - have been found right there.

Laura have you ever been?

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
erm, nope, that was what sprung to my mind, too ... hehe

---

posted 29 November 2003 09:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear Laura and msjen, my friends...

I just went back to Adoula's list...( my friend too) well, I have to say that the man has a great mind!

But speaking of minds...it's only 4 of us that regularly contribute to this multiple choice type of a thread! Pity!!! There are many that could join, I noticed 'newcomer' she is a very wise woman I find her very well informed. But lately, I also noticed that many members adopted 'silence'!?

I guess it goes by phases.

Baba_Mido and fanta also disappeared....

But anyway, DID YOU KNOW that:

Antique shopping in Alexandria is quite a treat. For the interested, it is located in the 'Atareen' area. Some little treasures - at very reasonable prices - have been found right there.

Laura have you ever been?

---

Hi Monica,
Not a lot of free time today, but I too also noticed many gone. Hmm...the one that bothers me most is Fantachero. I do hope things are going ok for her.

Have never been to the shop you mentioned but give a name if you can, or address, and will look it up next time I am in that area. I love "bargains" especially if they are antique, though I am probably older than anything I will find..haha

Laura

posted 29 November 2003 10:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Hi Monica,
Not a lot of free time today, but I too also noticed many gone. Hmm...the one that bothers me most is Fantachero. I do hope things are going ok for her.
Laura

---

have an idea what fanta might be up to

FROM THE LAND BEYOND BEYOND, FROM THE WORLD HAS NO HOPE AND FEAR,I WISH BABA-MIDO NOW TO APPEAR

re any others, i asked newcomer to join on another thread, i don't think she will, but it was worth a try...

Monica and Laura
maybe some people would join in if you posted a thread "Advertisement" for the competition ... i'm not known enough for that to be effective.

what about nefertiti for example? her nice sense of humour would be appreciated by so many on this thread i think...

posted 29 November 2003 01:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear Jamilah,

Super post!!!

You're so right, it's hard to understand why someone loves that one, or this one for sure; I agree with you. It hits and it's 'bye bye' rest of the world...and I guess you have to go through your experience and live it, and I wish you great happiness.

When I said Viva freedom, I was referring to my situation now. I enjoy not being married for the moment. Whereas Laura said Viva marriage, because she is enjoying marriage now.

If I ever meet a man with the qualities that are absolutely necessary for a good marriage, in my eyes, maybe then, I will say Viva marriage !!!

And just for fun, here is a description of the 'ideal' qualities in a man for a good marriage as per my 'humble' opinion( provided the chemistry is right):

An available (no other wives) very kind, caring and decent man, with very high morals, who won't lie and cheat, who won't put his wife or ANYONE down so he can feel better about himself, who would respect the fact that his wife is an intelligent, outspoken straigth woman, who would be highly educated, a reader with a romantic side and a great sense of humour. Who would NOT be a double standard, who would treat his wife EXACTLY as she treats him. Very clean, and who absolutely hates the 2 wives or more, syndrome, and last but not least, who would genuinely love Egypt.

And if all these qualities exist in ONE man... well, good for him, he he he...and he should be very proud of himself!
Salam,
Monica

---

U R right Monica,
If all these qualities exist in ONE man... well, good for him.
And better if he will not marry, as he will lose all this and will lose even himself....lol

------------------
Regards
adoula777@yahoo.com

posted 29 November 2003 01:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear Laura and msjen, my friends...

I just went back to Adoula's list...( my friend too) well, I have to say that the man has a great mind!

But speaking of minds...it's only 4 of us that regularly contribute to this multiple choice type of a thread! Pity!!! There are many that could join, I noticed 'newcomer' she is a very wise woman I find her very well informed. But lately, I also noticed that many members adopted 'silence'!?

I guess it goes by phases.

Baba_Mido and fanta also disappeared....

But anyway, DID YOU KNOW that:

Antique shopping in Alexandria is quite a treat. For the interested, it is located in the 'Atareen' area. Some little treasures - at very reasonable prices - have been found right there.

Laura have you ever been?

---

Ehemmmmmm, am here.....lol
I will not reply to the first part of the message, but:
I just came from Alex, one week ago, and as U may know or may don't know I like antiques, and I came across many of nice things on shopping trips to Attarine in Alexandria.

Laura here is a list for U:

Shop name Tel.

Agiba 5432140
Antiqua 4863433
Diksson 4802610
Habashi 4864448
Karim 5880652
Lux 4873872
Meshmesh 3908261
New Art 5838296
Reda 4860922
Youssef Shaaban 4809507

posted 29 November 2003 01:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Ehemmmmmm, am here.....lol
I will not reply to the first part of the message, but:
I just came from Alex, one week ago, and as U may know or may don't know I like antiques, and I came across many of nice things on shopping trips to Attarine in Alexandria.

Laura here is a list for U:

Shop name Tel.

Agiba 5432140
Antiqua 4863433
Diksson 4802610
Habashi 4864448
Karim 5880652
Lux 4873872
Meshmesh 3908261
New Art 5838296
Reda 4860922
Youssef Shaaban 4809507

---

posted 29 November 2003 02:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
I think that in 'another' life Adoula and I were probably twins he he he...right brother?

---

hahhhahaa,
This is a touchy subject.

Well I know a brother who took his sister's hand and said to her, Come, let us go together out into the wide world!

That was about 15 years ago, but unfortunately the sister refused and said: no need to panic.....lol

posted 30 November 2003 04:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
no need to panic.....lol

---

i read and re-read this last line but I DON'T GET IT. Would someone be so kind to explain it to me?

posted 30 November 2003 06:13 AM            

The magic words make me come back again ) I was in a quite holiday and it was very useful for me to ease the pain of bomb tragedy... Sorry to make u all worry...

Ohh my god, I need days to read all the writings. You have already reach the 9th page, you guys are so creative....

Will be back very soon....

Best wishes to all of you,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by msjen:
[B] have an idea what fanta might be up to

FROM THE LAND BEYOND BEYOND, FROM THE WORLD HAS NO HOPE AND FEAR,I WISH BABA-MIDO NOW TO APPEAR

posted 30 November 2003 06:20 AM            

welcome back dear friend - somehow i knew you'd be fine ... you'd better hurry up now with reading all the posts so you can keep up with the competition!!! hahaaaaaa

nice to have you back

posted 30 November 2003 07:19 AM            

msjeeeen...what competition? which reminds me....

DID YOU KNOW what is the Arab league?

The Arab League is an organization that promotes inter-Arab cultural technical and economic links, and prevents conflicts between Arab states. A pact was signed in 1945 by 8 states, and it was established in Cairo. These days, it has become the voice of moderate Arab opinion, and a body favouring economic unity. It now has 19 member states.

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
hey fantaaa

welcome back dear friend - somehow i knew you'd be fine ... you'd better hurry up now with reading all the posts so you can keep up with the competition!!! hahaaaaaa

nice to have you back

jen

---

posted 30 November 2003 07:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
DID YOU KNOW what is the Arab league?

The Arab League is an organization that promotes inter-Arab cultural technical and economic links, and prevents conflicts between Arab states. A pact was signed in 1945 by 8 states, and it was established in Cairo. These days, it has become the voice of moderate Arab opinion, and a body favouring economic unity. It now has 19 member states.

---

Just found their web-site - very informative for a person who does not know too much about the arab world as yet, many thanks Monica!

posted 30 November 2003 08:01 AM            

But I noticed the presence of a new member who says she is FROM Cairo, her name is: sweet_witch. So there's still hope I guess.

Adoula, what do you think?

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:

Just found their web-site - very informative for a person who does not know too much about the arab world as yet, many thanks Monica!

You know what just occurred to me - actually there are hardly any Arabs posting on ES, mainly expats and those who would love to be expats in egypt one day. Do you have an explanation why this is the case?

---

posted 30 November 2003 11:43 AM            

That's a question I don't have a good answer for. But:
In my 'humble' opinion, here are the top five reasons why people don't post on ES, or don't say their opinion:

1- People are insecure about the value of their knowledge.
2- People don't trust each other.
3- People may assume there is no need to share.
4- People who think that they will not change the world by saying their opinion.
5- People who think that if they have friends on-line, there's something wrong with theirr social life in the "real" world, so they prefer to go out and smoke shesha.

People are amazing to me. It seems like some people are living only for themselves and not for anyone else. There are three types of people: self-centered, caring, and two-faced. Each type has problems. I’m not saying that anyone is better than anyone else. What I am wanting to say is that we all need to improve somewhere in our lives to make us all better people.

posted 30 November 2003 06:08 PM            

why do you think that arabs in particular don't post here? or are they just more affected by the above reasons you wrote about? i guess that would then be a result of their upbringing.

if so, that's sad because that should mean that they are missing out on a great opportunity to become more knowledgeable about one another ... and to understand what makes 'all these foreigners with these asurd values (or novalues at all)' tick ... but mabe they're simply not interested?

looks as if there is not much of a chance to change that even in a small circle of people ...

posted 01 December 2003 03:22 AM            

Monica,

posted 01 December 2003 03:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:

...But then why not simply live with a partner rather than with your husband or wife? What i mean is 'why marry?' If a couple is sure of one another they WILL stay forever if there is no compelling reason not to. And if there is a reason, then both partners should have the freedom to leave.

Many people marry for religious reasons, or because this is what society expects from them. But to me that is not reason enough, there should be a more COMPELLING reason.

Children are a reason to marry, many say. As far as I can see, unfortunately this is the case but only because the laws are not very favourable to people having children if they are not married. Especially to men, the have close to zero rights where i live if they are not the husband of their child's mother.

---

You know people usually take your relationship seriously if you’re married, they talk to you with some kind of respect and you are more protected from not married women, whereas if you’re not, people often don’t (take it seriously that is).

Your families get officially joined together.

When babies pop out they get to officially have a dad.

posted 01 December 2003 04:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
I'm actually asking this question in a forum full of women.

Do decent mature men actually exists?

Ok, I will tell U:

1- Men who don't lie and cheat.

---

Sometimes happens i guess but do it carefully and as a regard for their women.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:

2- Men who don't put you down so they can feel better about themselves.
3- Men who are not scared of a strong, outspoken, blunt woman.
4- Men who actually have a romantic side and know how to use it.

---

That is real true but women have to rule men time to time and you will see that it works

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:

5- Decent men who treat you well and don't walk out on you, who care for you and who don't act like they are better than you are.
6- Remain Focused on the Game.
7- Stay Calm.
8- Demonstrate Charisma.
9- In one word: Be A Man, Not A Boy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:

But the question to all nice women out there: Would you choose a man like that to be your partner?????????????

---

Adoula even if there are more points it doesn't make sense until you feel it by your heart (of cause its better not to loose brains but anyway)

I liked a lot what Laura said that ... marriage gives you a level of intimacy that cannot be achieved with any other type of relationship. It holds a (lifelong commitment) of trust, sharing, satisfaction that can only be found in this type of relationship....

And i think the same 1000%

You know all my life i was independent, strong, knowing that there is only me and i even could't imagine that there can be your half who can take care of you and to stand all your moods and even to be tender and nice to you when you act completely unbearable and i do (now trying to improve it ) I think the main thing is that you understand and you see that there is man who takes care of you, who is interested in you, who can understand you without words and who feels whats wrong or good with you by your voice.

posted 01 December 2003 04:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Dear Jen, i'd like somehow to answer to you questions from my poin of view concerning these:

You know people usually take your relationship seriously if you’re married, they talk to you with some kind of respect and you are more protected from not married women, whereas if you’re not, people often don’t (take it seriously that is).

Your families get officially joined together.

When babies pop out they get to officially have a dad.

So, that is how i understand people's opinions concerning marriage..

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Dear Jamilah

Thank you for your answers, they are very good points. i understand that this is how society works, unfortunately. i am aware that there are different traditions in different cultures and that your points probably hold true in Egypt, for example.

However, I am not sure if "what society thinks" should be a compelling argument for young people to make a life-long commitment.

I should have enough self-respect to respect myself and my partner for what we are WITHOUT making this self-worth dependent on the rest of society? There are friends and family who are important (who would probably respect any of my decisions, which is why i chose them to be my friends ), but is the rest of society really worth a marriage?

If a baby "popps out" why should the parents make a life-long commitment to each other, the baby still has a mother and a father if both parents make a life-long commitment to THE BABY. This of course requires mutual support with regards to all matters relating to the child(ren).

If you have a partner and your parents know him/ her, those families can still socialise if they want, however if they do have different outlooks on life then there is no compulsory reason for them to do so if they don't want to.

Jamilah it is quite possible that i am missing something here.... but from my limited perspective i fail to see what that is ...

posted 01 December 2003 05:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BaBa-Mido:

An available (no other wives) very kind, caring and decent man, with very high morals, who won't lie and cheat, who won't put his wife or ANYONE down so he can feel better about himself, who would respect the fact that his wife is an intelligent, outspoken straigth woman, who would be highly educated, a reader with a romantic side and a great sense of humour. Who would NOT be a double standard, who would treat his wife EXACTLY as she treats him. Very clean, and who absolutely hates the 2 wives or more, syndrome, and last but not least, who would genuinely love Egypt.

Monica,

Did you call me ?

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posted 01 December 2003 05:21 PM            

My question to you is: what if after marriage the woman realizes that she is so unhappy, but a couple of children are right there.. what is she supposed to do, in your opinion?

Society will certainly condemn her for divorcing...so would she have to stay and forget about starting a new happy life because of society???

And by unhappy, I mean really miserable.

posted 02 December 2003 03:27 AM            

You have a right to live and choose the way of your life as you wish, thanks God we live in a free world! And to choose your friendsJ and live independent!!!!J

Ok, now let me tell you something i'm thinking about Monica's question for long time already and can't find a real reasonable answer to that question except that he is my second HALH and whatever he does reflects very positively on me and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE and RESPECTION, GREAT RESPECTION, RESPECTION!!!! i cant put my thoughts and what i have inside me what i feel into words...

Moreover, thinking more about it I have more questionsJ But I’m honest to myself and listen to my voice. Yes, Jen, you’re right that we don’t need to swept up into social normalcy of getting married. I ask myself why do I really want to get married only because that my partner really wants to, or that we’ve been together for a long time, so it’s the next logical step, or that my friends or family want me to get married – no way, moreover my parents are not agree. There are always not good reasons on which to base a big life decision. And I DO understand that to have a long, happy marriage, I need to be clear and sure that this is what “I” want.

There is another question “why do I want to marry this person at this time”. Ok, let’s see. That could be silly to get married in order to “we can fix existing problems in our relationship, feel like an adult and are distracted from unhappiness in our life”
This part is difficult, I have to be able to answer this question clearly and in some details.

Also it’s very important how long we know each other because to discover new things about each other can be joyful if we discover something good and positive but to my mind it’s better to know more before getting married the lesser chance of discovering qualities, behaviours or values that I cant live with after the fact.

Long-term relationship is good for realizing of meaning of being in such kind of relationship and its understanding. Because getting married doesn’t create intimacy, happiness or romance – that is what ME an my PARTNER DO. (by the way, may be this is really good I told you that we were going to get married in Dec. and we had to postpone it may be this is to realize our needs and expectations of our life-long commitment). We all carry internal templates of expectations and how things should be in marriage and if me and my partner can live with each other’s expectations and we know and understand and fulfill each others expectations – that is great!

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:
Dear Jamilah

Thank you for your answers, they are very good points. i understand that this is how society works, unfortunately. i am aware that there are different traditions in different cultures and that your points probably hold true in Egypt, for example.

However, I am not sure if "what society thinks" should be a compelling argument for young people to make a life-long commitment.

I should have enough self-respect to respect myself and my partner for what we are WITHOUT making this self-worth dependent on the rest of society? There are friends and family who are important (who would probably respect any of my decisions, which is why i chose them to be my friends ), but is the rest of society really worth a marriage?

If a baby "popps out" why should the parents make a life-long commitment to each other, the baby still has a mother and a father if both parents make a life-long commitment to THE BABY. This of course requires mutual support with regards to all matters relating to the child(ren).

If you have a partner and your parents know him/ her, those families can still socialise if they want, however if they do have different outlooks on life then there is no compulsory reason for them to do so if they don't want to.

Jamilah it is quite possible that i am missing something here.... but from my limited perspective i fail to see what that is ...

Jen

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posted 02 December 2003 03:51 AM            

Monica you mean it, you really want to know what I think?

Ok, want to say that I haven’t been in such kind shoes I don’t have children, I’m not married (yet ) and I can’t tell what that woman can do because I don’t know her and what she does and I don’t know what she is.

I’m not competent in this question, so what can I say then?

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
Jamilah,
ciao cara,

My question to you is: what if after marriage the woman realizes that she is so unhappy, but a couple of children are right there.. what is she supposed to do, in your opinion?

Society will certainly condemn her for divorcing...so would she have to stay and forget about starting a new happy life because of society???

And by unhappy, I mean really miserable.

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posted 02 December 2003 04:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
funny bunny baba_Mido!!
But where have you been really?

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posted 02 December 2003 11:43 AM            

I have to say that lately, you have been doing a great job contributing to this thread.

Monica

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamilah:
Oh no, dear friends, what i was afraid of it's time now to do this

I have to describe my individual objectives, measurements, targets and goals concerning market leadership, quality services, quality growth, quality people and personal development and career goals. Oh, no

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posted 03 December 2003 05:45 AM            

I'm leaving to Montreal for a few days to attend a few meetings.

msjen, Laura, Jamilah, Baba_Mido, fanta, Debbie, and all the other readers anonymous there's a new thread that Adoula initiated (about wearing masks), I am looking forward to read your own views. If I understand correctly it's meant to make a difference

Adoula, and all of the above I'll miss your brilliant posts!

Before I go...DID YOU KNOW that

Someone said: It doesn't really matter who you marry, because in any case, when you wake up the next day, it will be a different person!

So I guess, the important part is that you should be willing to adapt!

Until later, take care.
Salam
Monica

quote:

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Originally posted by msjen:

Jen[/B]

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posted 03 December 2003 06:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
My dear friends,

I'm leaving to Montreal for a few days to attend a few meetings.

msjen, Laura, Jamilah, Baba_Mido, fanta, Debbie, and all the other readers anonymous there's a new thread that Adoula initiated (about wearing masks), I am looking forward to read your own views. If I understand correctly it's meant to make a difference

Adoula, and all of the above I'll miss your brilliant posts!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 03 December 2003).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:

Before I go...DID YOU KNOW that

Someone said: It doesn't really matter who you marry, because in any case, when you wake up the next day, it will be a different person!

So I guess, the important part is that you should be willing to adapt!

Until later, take care.
Salam
Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 03 December 2003).]

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posted 03 December 2003 06:19 AM            

By the way thanks for that great definition of marriage which i totally agree

Take care

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
My dear friends,

I'm leaving to Montreal for a few days to attend a few meetings.

msjen, Laura, Jamilah, Baba_Mido, fanta, Debbie, and all the other readers anonymous there's a new thread that Adoula initiated (about wearing masks), I am looking forward to read your own views. If I understand correctly it's meant to make a difference

Adoula, and all of the above I'll miss your brilliant posts!

Before I go...DID YOU KNOW that

Someone said: It doesn't really matter who you marry, because in any case, when you wake up the next day, it will be a different person!

So I guess, the important part is that you should be willing to adapt!

Until later, take care.
Salam
Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 03 December 2003).]

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posted 03 December 2003 01:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
How ya doooooin Monica haha

OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

Banners rising.....drums beating....and a Fanfare of Trumpets PLEASEEEEEEEEEE.!!!!

THIS IS THE 400TH POST AND I TAKE EXTREME PLEASURE IN THE FACT I AM THE ONE DOING IT

Some Cartwheels Please Ms Jen...

TADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

laughing

Laura (working of her new addition to flora and fauna)

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hey Laura

evertime i open this thread i have to laugh when i see this "How ya doooooin" ... certainly keepin' me happy

but what about your flora and fauna thread ...
are you too busy at the moment?

posted 03 December 2003 01:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jamilah:
... he is my second HALH and whatever he does reflects very positively on me ...

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good enough reason, dear all my best wishes to you and your loved one!

not criticising what you are doing here, you're doing a great thing!!!

just expressing my unhappiness about the fact that society puts everyone into one big pot and 'judges' them according to how they live their life ... and trying to find compelling justification or at least a certain validity for society to do so ... and i wish i was wrong with my impressions ...

posted 03 December 2003 02:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
msjen, Laura, Jamilah, Baba_Mido, fanta, Debbie, and all the other readers anonymous there's a new thread that Adoula initiated (about wearing masks), I am looking forward to read your own views. If I understand correctly it's meant to make a difference

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have a good time in montreal, i shall try to give ou a detailed account of the happenings on ES (any volunteers to help me with this honourable task?)

loooove that new thread ... like it a lot. do you think that there is a chance that some arabs might contribute and explain to us why they are as reserved as they are? ...

just a thought ...

posted 05 December 2003 02:05 PM            

Ok, as am here, so I just wanted to say Hi.

Now if U want to read something interesting go to this URL: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/667/li1.htm

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Regards
adoula777@yahoo.com