posted
The 2020 has a different outcome some of these activists have actually influenced some states to change their policing budgets and policies.
However there is a crime surge going on also but it is too early to tell if that is going to continue
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
With all the bum rushed prisoners rented for labor With deportation of blk Mauritanian business families 21 Savage got the aid?
Ah well BLM is the call of the amateur activists though I wonder how many of the youth standing up for what's right are sympathizers more than members.
What does the like 80+% white involvement signify?
Blk potential 'protesters' staying home letting the allies vanguard?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yes that's why today don't need no 60s 70s rhetoric.
Today looters and arsonists are an anarchic minority using struggle to shield their selfish greed. Their tactic of violence and destruction is not what got results. Looting & arson was the hallmark for decades right up until now.
2020 is a breath of fresh pacifist air. Peaceful protest and a catch phrase like Black Lives Matter is getting things done. New tactic new millenium new age new 'police dpts'. In a matter of weeks!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The 2020 has a different outcome some of these activists have actually influenced some states to change their policing budgets and policies.
However there is a crime surge going on also but it is too early to tell if that is going to continue
In all honesty blx have gotta express outrage of 'blk treatment' some other way than by gunning down blx in the agreement of the worthlessness of black lives projected by the dominant social structure WORLDWIDE Check the murder rate in Jamaica (not Queens, the island).
The anti-snitch thing? Ghetto Hasidic Jews will not snitch. What they will do is gang up on and beat and kick a thief among their own. Hasidic Jewish ghettos police themselves.
Blx are rightfully anti-snitch and call cops only as a lasts result but they don't police their nabes.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber: This interview will let you know all you need to know. These three lesbians are only the cofounders, but the puppet master is a transgender man, Malachi Larrabee-Garza who is the "husband" of Alicia Garza.
Black Lives Matter cofounder Alicia Garza and partner, community justice activist Malachi Larrabee-Garza speak at the 2016 YBCA 100 Summit.
this video is not proof that Malachi Larrabee-Garza is a"puppet master"
You have presented to no argument as to what they are saying is wrong
Yes it is. That person clearly explained the lines set out. And Alicia Garza followed into it.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The 2020 has a different outcome some of these activists have actually influenced some states to change their policing budgets and policies.
However there is a crime surge going on also but it is too early to tell if that is going to continue
It's not them, it was other people who have done that. The Jason Blacks, Tariq Nasheeds etc. They have pushed the people in the streets and put in work. The LBTQ pandered on this, like they have with all the deaths of Black people.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:It's not them, it was other people who have done that. The Jason Blacks, Tariq Nasheeds etc. They have pushed the people in the streets and put in work. The LBTQ pandered on this, like they have with all the deaths of Black people.
Jason Black is a mysterious person you never see on camera on youtube. He definitely did not get people on the streets. People who get people on the streets are on the streets themselves leading people
Tariq Nasheed has he been on the streets? I don't know. I listen to him occasionally but not than much, he has that womanizing background which I don't respect
some of his book titles pre-Hidden Colors
The Mack Within, The Art of Mackin', The Art of Gold Digging
You tell me has Tariq been on the streets?
the revolution may be uploaded after the fact to youtube but it isn't youtubers and what goes on in the streets with the BLM does not start with people making youtube videos
Who is actually leaving their house, taking risks to engage with the world?
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quote:It's not them, it was other people who have done that. The Jason Blacks, Tariq Nasheeds etc. They have pushed the people in the streets and put in work. The LBTQ pandered on this, like they have with all the deaths of Black people.
Jason Black is a mysterious person you never see on camera on youtube. He definitely did not get people on the streets. People who get people on the streets are on the streets themselves leading people
Tariq Nasheed has he been on the streets? I don't know. I listen to him occasionally but not than much, he has that womanizing background which I don't respect
some of his book titles pre-Hidden Colors
The Mack Within, The Art of Mackin', The Art of Gold Digging
You tell me has Tariq been on the streets?
the revolution may be uploaded after the fact to youtube but it isn't youtubers and what goes on in the streets with the BLM does not start with people making youtube videos
Who is actually leaving their house, taking risks to engage with the world?
It's Jason Black who has put out documentaries about white supremacy and had prominent white suprematist in that documentary. That documentary he made became a best seller on Amazon. He and Tariq made phone calls had peoples charges dropped, payed fines etc. Him and Tariq literally have been on the streets. Tariq was on the streets in Atlanta during the hight of the riots. lol
All these other people are all about talk and trying to derail the subject. Dancing in the streets with their asses in the air. As if that is going to accomplished something. That is typical passive gay behavior. No heterosexual male acts like that when important decisions need to be made.
Tariq has connected people in local business development, what have you done???
These books are important to heterosexual male" The Mack Within, The Art of Mackin', The Art of Gold Digging.
There's hundreds of books like this that came after Tariq published his. All focused on heterosexual men.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I did not expect to meet here a topic for discussion. I confess that I am tolerant and do not attach much importance to it. Everyone makes their own choice and it has nothing to do with me. Less than half of Poles, Slovaks and Hungarians believe that homosexuality should be accepted by society. I became curious and I studied this topic in more detail, an article on the site https://kafkadesk.org/2020/07/09/less-than-half-of-poles-slovaks-and-hungarians-think-homosexuality-should-be-accepted-study-shows/, where I found a lot of interesting facts. For example, did you know that among the V4 countries, the Czech Republic is the only country where the majority of respondents (59%) agree with the statement that homosexuality should be accepted by society. A very controversial topic of homosexuality in Eastern Europe, I will continue to monitor the changes further.
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quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: Its not African.
True. Why they insist on this beyond crazy.
the initial post is about the the Nyakyusa. Do you know anything about them
before you go look them up on google??
or pertaining to the subject? Do you know what Chibados are?
Yes, I know and I don't care, because it's not a (big) thing. It's all blown out of proportion, because they want to force Black people into some LBTQ submission.
I understand African spiritually and I know that there's a male and female spiritual side.
You have always been supportive of things that pertain the demise of Black people , so I am not shocked here.
How can that be true when we've given numerous examples of homosexuality already existing in Pre-Colonial African societies?? Homosexuality existed in every ancient and modern civilization around the World, but somehow those people did not die out. This whole lgbt population control argument is so much nonsense. As though people who have homosexual sex can not or do not also have heterosexual intercourse. So many Black men (and men of all races) have repressed their own urges, and feel that everyone who doesn't is foul. So much lying! Is it a wonder why Black people are in such a bad mental state?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Until now there's been no such thing as any homosexual/queer community concept in inner Africa --ttboms-- despite the fact of male-male occasional sex acts by warrior on warrior w/o penetration, society condoned lifelong fluid gendering of page boys, etc. There were rare and scattered look the other way one off instances of a male living as if born a female including taking up house. This differs from a two masculine males relationship, where neither claims to be female in any manner.
Currently practiced syncretic spiritualities from Africa in the Americas find feminine aura males make for good 'horses' for invoked spiritual beings to 'ride'.
Sahro-Libyans painted some freaky deaky rock artwork. Lucian records an Egyptian forcing a Levantines to have 'sore throat'.
Africa from north Sahra to Mediterranean coast has displayed at least one locale permitting man-boy marriage as a norm. Nowadays they claim they were 'misrepresented in the media'.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Until now there's been no such thing as any homosexual/queer community concept in inner Africa --ttboms--
How can you say that when there have already been examples of homosexuality being wide spread in certain West African societies?
"In 1921, German ethnographer Günther Tessmann quoted a local calling homosexuality a "national custom"[3][4][5] among the Bafia people in his book Die Homosexualität bei den Negern Kameruns. He later on described the three stages of life of a Bafia man, namely:[6]
kiembe, men who did have any sexual relationships with women. It starts around 15 years old. ntu, men who had sexual relationships with women. mbäng, fathers, men who have children. Kiembe boys were prohibited to have sexual and social contacts with prepubescent girls at the risk of being tortured or enslaved; there was a fierce competition to get the available women. The only option left of those kiembe men was to develop a close male sexual friendship with a lexan, a kiembe boy of a younger or of the same age who is in the same situation, where they would often engage in ji’gele ketön, anal penetration.[7] Before the sexual act, one of the boy would ask the consent of the other person by showing them a basketry plate of earthnuts and say that if they eat one, they consent. This metaphor symbolized the apparent dirtiness of a nut coming from the ground but become sweetness of it upon tasting. These acts could happen anytime, at any place (such as at one of the boys' home) and were seen as normal. For instance, it wasn't rare for a father to come back home to witness his son performing a sexual act and to laugh it off"
quote:despite the fact of male-male occasional sex acts by warrior on warrior w/o penetration, society condoned
Anal penetration was done between the soldiers. Thigh sex is for occasions not a regular custom, for what would the bottom get out of it except a rub burn? Let's stop the nonsense of denying human nature. You're not gay, so you wouldn't understand how these things go, so just take it from me they inserting lol.
quote: Currently practiced syncretic spiritualities from Africa in the Americas find feminine aura males make for good 'horses' for invoked spiritual beings to 'ride'.
So you're saying that gays were the spiritual leaders of indigenous African and American society. You acknowledge this while also claiming that gays played no major role in African society? I imagine what happened in America during the Harlem renaissance as a recent example of these gay spiritual leaders leading the Black population to ascend past utter subjugation. The Harlem Renaissance was the movement that created "The New Negro" movement, which of course lead to the Civil Rights movement that rippled throughout the diaspora and the continent of Africa! The Harlem Renaissance was created as a result of out of place ("Be a man like me" or "why don't you dress like the other gals") gay Blacks in the rural American south looking to come amongst one another for mutual understanding of our uniqueness (like Atlanta today). We create all culture in this race, and sitting in a few Black churches (which birthed all American music) will show you who truly narrates this eccentric style of the music and culture that comes out of those Black churches (the gay men).
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Blah blah blah blah blah
How can I say it?
Because it's non-biased fact. Not Euro-queer centric Not Afr-eccentric
Listen up I know Akamba, Agikuyu, Masai, and baRundi males and females I believe what they've told me Intrafemoral sex for warriors and for certain young ladies
This is even a fact in southern Africa where interfemoral sex is used when pregnancy is definitely not desired
Do you know any actual African techniques? It's not only that one method that you think it is. One was taught to me Some Agikuyu women enjoy it just as much as vaginal penetration
Even Classic Greek male-male sex was mostly interfemoral Go look it up Your one off quotes mean little to one who has whole volumes on African sexuality and is not looking only for examples that one agrees with while ignoring all else.
You need to start with those given and work your way up to more current sources from there ... but you don't wanna believe that men in Africa long before your kind came have killed men who propositioned them You act like inner Africans are stupid and couldn't possibly have anti-queer notions unless your yte Euro ppl taught them so.
In case you don't know Xianity is older along the Niles than the Danube, Loire, Rhine, Shannon, or Thames.
Prove any one of these examples I gave isn't a fact.
quote:Until now there's been no such thing as any homosexual/queer community concept in inner Africa --ttboms-- despite the fact of male-male occasional sex acts by warrior on warrior w/o penetration, society condoned lifelong fluid gendering of page boys, etc. There were rare and scattered look the other way one off instances of a male living as if born a female including taking up house. This differs from a two masculine males relationship, where neither claims to be female in any manner.
Currently practiced syncretic spiritualities from Africa in the Americas find feminine aura males make for good 'horses' for invoked spiritual beings to 'ride'.
Sahro-Libyans painted some freaky deaky rock artwork. Lucian records an Egyptian forcing a Levantines to have 'sore throat'.
Africa from north Sahra to Mediterranean coast has displayed at least one locale permitting man-boy marriage as a norm. Nowadays they claim they were 'misrepresented in the media'.
Check out de Rachewiltz Black Eros Byrk Voodoo Eros Beckwith&Fisher African Ceremonies and holla back.
.
Didja bother to view Beckwith&Fisher? No you didn't. The Taneka initiation ceremony has "father spirit of the penes" where male-male simulated sex is enacted in public vigorously and imaginatively but the Taneka have no anti-hetero community.
Ish tried explaining 'interconnectedness' of things in Africa that are quite boundaried in Europe like 'sacred vs secular' or the One Day O' Th' Week Only religion concept. Read this for some minimal understanding of spirituality's sexuality in Africa (no way resembling Euro concept sex-worship) or go on wildly imagining inner Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality rife with communities where two masculine men lived as husband and husband.
And another thing dude calm yr frantic ass down ask questions stop assuming to speak for me
You ask me if I believe something You ask me for clarity and/or expansion You do not go about accusing me with shih like "So you're saying that ..." Well poisoning and strawmanning to make debate points
Fuch making points Lay down education
Bottomline remains the fact Inner Africa had no queer community as the term is used today to describe people who don't like/are against hetero sex and propagating future generations of human beings on this planet.
You can very well educate folks that deny male-male sex love marriage is in Africa throughout time more effectively once you develop 360° 'holistic' methodology to see the 'whole' story or the rest of the story or at least some more bits of the story as nothing is one sided. Or is it?
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Blah blah blah blah blah
How can I say it?
Because it's non-biased fact. Not Euro-queer centric Not Afr-eccentric
Listen up I know Akamba, Agikuyu, Masai, and baRundi males and females I believe what they've told me Intrafemoral sex for warriors and for certain young ladies
Your insistence that this most basic human instinct to "get it in" is not primal in homosexuals is telling of your inherent biased.
"Kiembe boys were prohibited to have sexual and social contacts with prepubescent girls at the risk of being tortured or enslaved; there was a fierce competition to get the available women. The only option left of those kiembe men was to develop a close male sexual friendship with a lexan, a kiembe boy of a younger or of the same age who is in the same situation, where they would often engage in ji’gele ketön, anal penetration. [7] Before the sexual act, one of the boy would ask the consent of the other person by showing them a basketry plate of earthnuts and say that if they eat one, they consent"
Your trope is "Well if there is was homosexual relations then they didn't have anal sex because it's yucky to me", but what do you have to say about the Cameroonian word cited above that literally translates into anal sex? Why don't they mention anything about skin burns from the friction of the "thigh sex" that you claim these people to prefer?
quote: This is even a fact in southern Africa where interfemoral sex is used when pregnancy is definitely not desired
"Interfemoral sex" sounds ridiculous, and as you just alluded, it is used as an ALTERNATIVE to normal penetrating sex when certain factors are instilled, i.e. pregnancy. In the case of gay men a bottom who doesn't feel like jumping out of bed and douching his ass before sex might insist on the alternative.
Trust me no gay guys are in the clubs shaking their thighs looking for hot "femur sex". We're checking asses, bodies etc etc. I have only allowed myself to accept femur sex on one occasion. I've had sex foreign men, even from the continent, and "femur sex" is not a thing that we do.
quote: Do you know any actual African techniques? It's not only that one method that you think it is. One was taught to me Some Agikuyu women enjoy it just as much as vaginal penetration
No I do not know of any "African" techniques that are distinct from the rest of World's sexual practices. Do tell.
quote: Even Classic Greek male-male sex was mostly interfemoral Go look it up
No. How about you provide the source for that silliness.
quote: Your one off quotes mean little to one who has whole volumes on African sexuality and is not looking only for examples that one agrees with while ignoring all else.
Is this ancient Khoisan in Zimbabwe art another one of those one off examples?
Is this the "African sex" that you are talking about? We got stick figure men sitting on dix, and tugging on each others dix. That looks very gay to me, and it also looks very ancient (predates the Bantu migration). Yet you want to claim that these hunter gatherer men were tainted by an external force, but this external force did not advance their nomadic lifesyles. The external force only made them gay lol you cannot make this up folks lol. The freakin denial is a cancer in the Black community.
quote: but you don't wanna believe that men in Africa long before your kind came have killed men who propositioned them You act like inner Africans are stupid and couldn't possibly have anti-queer notions unless your yte Euro ppl taught them so.
Long before "my kind"? You sound stupid. I'm Black, and gay. Is that not a possibility in your mental? Secondly the gist of early Eurocentrics scholars on African homosexuality was essentially that Africans were too simple minded/or stupid to have sexual dynamics that did not involve the most primal reproductive instincts of human beings. This implies that Europeans know or believe that gay people are intellectually or at least intuitively more astute then heterosexuals. Europeans were saying that the Africans were too stupid to produce these elements that Europeans have gained a new affinity towards worshipping.
You therefore have it backwards. Europeans and Arabs came into Africa and saw homosexuality in every corner. When the foreigners introduced their religion then the people began to turn on the homosexuals whom the previously worshipped. Not only Africa, but all over the World this pattern occurs. Do you have the honestly to note that this pattern occurred around the World from Papua New Guinea (Black people) to the Americas (more Black people), India (Black People), and finally Africa, because it will prove that Africa was no different.
quote: Prove any one of these examples I gave isn't a fact.
You didn't provide any evidence for anything that you're claiming. Nothing but a diatribe of desperate running from the truth.
quote: Bottomline remains the fact Inner Africa had no queer community as the term is used today to describe people who don't like/are against hetero sex and propagating future generations of human beings on this planet.
It is my conjecture that homosexuality in Black people is tabooed or propagated to be, because Black gay homosexuals who were formerly worshipped as the priest of your damn villages will again earn that title. I think that white people put you all up to hating this truth, because they know our power and took advantage of the down period. They also know your egos...So many damn DL dudes spouting homophobic nonsense to deflect from the bussy hankering it's pathetic.
That being said I read a quote about a year or two ago about a group of archaeologist who went into Nubia a while ago, and found an entire village of homosexuals. Apparently the collective tribes sent their homosexuals to the priestly tribes. What was interesting about this very short quote, was that they used the phrase it " it is whispered in archaeological circles". I think it's high time that we realize what they (the Europeans) are really "whispering" about.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Your trope is "Well if there is was homosexual relations then they didn't have anal sex because it's yucky to me",
.
Sod off with you posting your ideology as if words from my mouth. Words I never spoke, do not believe nor never spreaded about nowhere.
You don't know how many wenches I've tupped in their fine fat fannies or not.
Doin' it in da butt is a very hetero thing dontcha know ♪https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsWnrkQl7yI♪ Ya see there's a reason lotsa guys wanna "piece o' azz" and spazz out over curvy bottoms.
It's your loser butt what said anal is yucky. Own up to it and talk to Freud about slips. I have merely shown interfemoral was the Great Lakes region male-male warrior (when away from home) method. Also proved by citation even ancient Greeks (the most vaunted male-males) primarily practiced interfemoral.
You are the most prejudiced against male-female hetero men who love the kitty and don't want any of your 'tuhkiss'. So you go around to even make imaginary enemies out of any and all who disagree with even just one thing you have to say inna your purely-de-propaganda rage-on.
No different than those closeted Afreccentrics and Blackcentrics who negatively way over react about male-male relations and used "no homo" in their vocabulary of insecurity. Nope, you're no different at all from them in the attitude department.
Incredible ... a Homo-centric says I don't realize same gender sexual activity is a part of nature, while Afr-eccentrics / Black-centrics accused me of being homo when I showed them examples of male-male sex and companionship in Inner Africa.
The hate people have in their hearts toward me SMH. Bless Gd no gay men I know of are as hateful and prejudiced and don't claim mystical magical mind reading powers the way backward propaganda pushers like to do.
Your lies, deliberate misrepresentations of others views, and the rest of your approach/lack-of-method is antithetical to greater recognition and acceptance of gays, lesbians, non-binaries, and sexual experimenters.
You yourself hurt your own cause when you lie on people and deny facts.
posted
LGBT+ people must have always existed throughout the world, but I don’t know if having ritualized same-sex intercourse like pederasty means somebody was born with a homosexual orientation as we would recognize it today. The anthropological data cited in this thread would indicate that the idea of same-sex intercourse was not universally considered repugnant in the past, but what did those cultures think of people who were hardwired to be homosexually oriented (like LGBT+ people in our culture) rather than doing that intercourse for ritual reasons?
Any yet you are implying that of the quarter million years of human existence in Africa that there was not a culture of two men doing this with each other. It's ridiculous. As long as anal sex has been around (since humanity) then it corresponds with how long "homosexual acts" have been performed.
quote:I have merely shown interfemoral was the Great Lakes region male-male warrior (when away from home) method.
More thigh sex nonsense I see smh lol. You are so indenial of these peoples gender fluidity, but why?
" Age-structured and gender-based homosexuality also existed in various royal courts. According to John Faupel, the Ugandan king Mwanga’s persecution of Christian pages in 1886 was largely motivated by their rejection of his sexual advances (1962: 9,10,68,82,83). He found it increasingly difficult to staff his harem of pages and supposedly was especially enraged when Mwafu, his favorite, refused any longer to submit to anal penetration .20 In the early 19605, male homosexuality was described as common among Hutu (Bantu agriculturalists) and Tutsi (Nilotic pastoralists) in the kingdom of Rwanda, especially among young Tutsi being trained at court, who were sexually available to court guests (Maquet 1961: 77-78).
So the let's examine this quote. We have a king in Uganda following a tradition (as there is no indication of his leadership being tabooed or rejected by the tribe) of fucking on the twink boys and females sometimes as his harem. When does this become an issue? Only when the NON AFRICAN RELIGIOUS indoctrination is brought to the tribes there is conflict with the tradition of homosexuality.
It's so sad for you to deny the obvious correspondence with this cultural shift, all because of what it implies about you, and the potential for your sexual fluidity. "We are our ancestors" right? Let me ask....do you think that it's more disrespectful to impose a Western based idea of shame onto the traditional actions of our ancestors to the point that you essential affront them? If some of our ancestors liked to take dick or bust male ass as a twink/young adult or their entire live (like many kids do today on the low) then you are imposing shame onto them just as their European oppressors did. This probably why we have disconnected from our ancestors over the last 5 centuries.
quote: Also proved by citation even ancient Greeks (the most vaunted male-males) primarily practiced interfemoral.
I have yet to see that quote, and regardless of that we have all the evidence that we need that ANAL SEX was how the African got down regardless. More evidence can be provided for the African side by me upon request.
quote: You are the most prejudiced against male-female hetero men
You having to retort with juvenile logical fallacies is just more telling of your own mental weakness that is very apparent. You've accepted that homosexuality existed in pre-colonial Africa, but you attempt to "clean it up" by putting an asterisk next to the fact with a note at the bottom saying "thigh sex only". It's utterly ridiculous and juvenile. It's nothing more than prejudice, which is the opposite of what an intelligent person expounds.
quote: You yourself hurt your own cause when you lie on people and deny facts.
MR. THIGH SEX,
You sound like a babbling old fool, who will continue to get drowned with examples of noted male to male anal penetration in precolonial Africa with your juvenile and baseless arguments of "Western style homosexuality".
- THE TRUTH
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: LGBT+ people must have always existed throughout the world, but I don’t know if having ritualized same-sex intercourse like pederasty means somebody was born with a homosexual orientation as we would recognize it today. The anthropological data cited in this thread would indicate that the idea of same-sex intercourse was not universally considered repugnant in the past, but what did those cultures think of people who were hardwired to be homosexually oriented (like LGBT+ people in our culture) rather than doing that intercourse for ritual reasons?
We were the priest and rulers, not just in Africa, but all over the World. In the Americas where we have all of this evidence of Africans before Columbus, we find it there. I wonder how the "we ain't Africans"/homophobic crowd would respond to that fact.
"An early twentieth-century dictionary includes the Rundi terms umuswezi and umukonotsi, translated as “sodomite,” and at least five Rundi words for male-male sexuality (kuswerana nk’imbwa, kunonoka, hwitomba, kuranana inyuma, ku’nyo). The dictionary also appears to document gendermixing priests among the Mirundi (Hutu and Tutsi), called ikihindu and ikimaze (translated as “hermaphrodite,” a very imprecise label at that time) (Burgt 1904: 20, 107)."
Father Antonio Cavazzi’s reaction to the Ganga-Ya-Chibanda, the presiding priest of the Giagues (Imbangala), a group in the Congo region, typifies the European response to African sexual diversity . In his 1687 Istorica de scrizione de’ tre’ regni Congo, Matamba, et Angola. Cavazzi described the Ganga-Ya- Chibanda as “a bare-faced, insolent, obscene, extremely villainous, disreputable scoundrel,” who “committed the foulest crimes” with impunity. The funeral rites held for him were so indecent “that the paper dirtied with its description would 10 AFRICA AND AFRICAN HOMOSEXUALITIES blush.” According to Cavazzi, the Ganga-Ya-Chibanda routinely cross-dressed and was addressed as “grandmother. ” The element chibanda in his title is certainly related to other terms used by Bantuspeakers in the region for nonmasculine males who are often shamans and have sex with other men (for example, chibadi, chibado, jimbandaa, hibamba, and quimbanda— see Part III).
I say wtye people did this. They turned the tribes against the priest with the Bible, and then took over the tribes. That's kind of what they get for fronted us the way that they did though right? Shaka Zulu, the greatest Bantu leader of recent times who was never reported with a female was said to have the same HAREM of young soldiers as described above, was said that his last words warned his treacherous brothers that the wyte man is about to kick their asses without him.
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posted
@TheTruth01 Are you proposing that Africans were a "fluid", pansexual group of people who were only shamed into heterosexuality by European Christians?
If so I don't understand the motivation behind this narrative.
...and the examples you give aren't forthcoming about much that hasn't been said here already.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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Any yet you are implying that of the quarter million years of human existence in Africa that there was not a culture of two men doing this with each other. It's ridiculous. As long as anal sex has been around (since humanity) then it corresponds with how long "homosexual acts" have been performed.
As the LGBTQ+ population moves to become more accepted in the United States, many are wondering just how many people are gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender? Simply put, 4.5% of Americans identify as LGBT. (Source: https://www.gaytravel.com/gay-blog/lgbt-population-statistics)
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I believe this 4.5% percentage to be around what naturally occurs in humans. I believe that when that percentage exists in other cultures it could be taboo in the cultures so it will be hidden but it's still there. On the other hand I believe that if a culture is very open and accepting of it and allows celebrations of it it doesn't influence people to become gay -because they aren't naturally that way. So in my opinion a percentage around 5 people out of a hundred are gay and it always stays around that percentage and the culture either allows it to be seen or hides and suppresses it by shaming. And that when a society is very accepting of it and has parades and so people get the impression this percentage is much higher but it really isn't and the acceptance doesn't make more people become gay. It just makes it acceptable that this about 5% can bee seen or not. So if you look at the historical thousands of cultures in Africa you may see some evidence of gay people in this natural percentage or you may see none because a given culture hides it or suppresses it. This is in my opinion, these things are very difficult to measure accurately
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Immediately stopped reading after you still put words in my mouth and moderation allows one poster to totally misrepresent another, oh but use a shorthand name for somebody and BOOM moderaor'll goodbye a whole post.
We do agree on our assessments of each other viz And you continue to be a babbling prejudiced baby nutz idiot spreading your white Euro western non- traditional gender role "community" nonsense while refusing to engage the overview of African sexualities within their African contexts and the variety of sexual positions in favor of an unprovable penis- anus couplings only in complete and avid fanboy disregard to all other coition.
Since peace go with you brother was rejected ... go sod off myth making obvious distorter of texts who can show nothing in Europe approaching the African 'weltanshuang' of proposed examples we've already noted on ES over the years but thinks they are stunning new never seen before presentations.
Would laugh but this mentality in a purported Afrikan is too too sad especially the ageism. Love yr yte homo bro -- hate yr blk senior Big Bruh nevermind ytes pass down yte heritage from generation to generation w/o hate while you wish to tear down the previous generation passing on the cultural heritage for you to leave your mark on and then pass it on in turn.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Immediately stopped reading after you still put words in my mouth and moderation allows one poster to totally misrepresent another, oh but use a shorthand name for somebody and BOOM goodbye whole post.
exactly right. In an academic debate, rhetoric and misrepresentation (except not false "" "" quotes) is allowed, schoolyard name calling is not because that is not intellectual. It's the opposite and degrades the conversation. It is often not boom, I often give a few warnings about name calling. When I get ignored and it keeps returning, then boom. Misrepresentation of the opponent is part of the art of debate. If the opponent can point out the misrepresentation then the person that did it loses credibility. And it's opinion as to what is misrepresentation or is not. If you call someone an "idiot" it's clearly insult and you usually don't see that in most intellectual debates even when it gets heated.
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Calling Alexander Alex, eg, is hardly name calling. Shortening down to a nickname is not an insult. On the otherhand "babbling old fool" is no compliment, and that after my 'Peace go with you brother' sign off. This is your house as a guest I obey and spell out full names.
=-=-=
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01:
you are implying [no direct quote -- you project your mental fabrication onto me]
you are imposing shame [no direct quote -- that's your judgement -- still slippin w/Freud aintcha]
quote: Also proved by citation even ancient Greeks (the most vaunted male-males) primarily practiced interfemoral.
.
I have yet to see that quote [i told you to "go look it up" -- where have you looked, not even a simple https://www.google.com/search?q=interfemoral+greek -- me no spoon feed -- well ok maybe this one time one for non-investigative skeptics]
juvenile logical fallacies your own mental weakness
You've accepted that homosexuality existed you attempt to "clean it up" [i don't accept anything -- i recognize facts and present them w/o value judgements the way you just did]
babbling old fool,
- THE TRUTH
.
Oh my goodness this baby nutz idiot believes he is THE truth vs A truth, his own
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Calling Alexander Alex, eg, is hardly name calling. Shortening down to a nickname is not an insult. On the otherhand "babbling old fool" is no
I missed that one but I'll let it slide due to "You sound like a "
rather than "you are"
Neverthless, TheTruth01, refrain from this sort of thing, thanks
I say wtye people did this. They turned the tribes against the priest with the Bible, and then took over the tribes. That's kind of what they get for fronted us the way that they did though right? Shaka Zulu, the greatest Bantu leader of recent times who was never reported with a female was said to have the same HAREM of young soldiers as described above, was said that his last words warned his treacherous brothers that the wyte man is about to kick their asses without him.
"White people" didn't "purge" homosexuality from Africa. SOME European teachings devalued homosexuality, but then again some African teaching or practice did the same. In Egypt for example, though homosexuals were in place, the norm as in most of Africa, was hetero-normative:
"In theory a number of variations in sexual behaviour were not alien to the Egyptians, but again the sources are most discreet as to what actually took place. As far as homosexuality is concerned there are but few examples to suggest that it was indulged in for pleasure. Raping another man was an act of aggression, a means of gaining power over an adversary. A passage in The Book of the Dead speaks of it as a virtue not to have committed a homosexual act, and a list of prohibitions valid in various cities suggests the same. A much discussed passage in one of the wisdom texts points to the same attitude. Pictorial evidence is ambiguous. In some of the sketches showing two persons in an intimate situation it is difficult to distinguish the sex of the participants. There is an allusion in a tale in which the god Seth, whose bi-sexual inclinations are evident elsewhere, jumps at the goddess Anat who is a sort of Amazon, dressed as a man...
Homosexuality among women is even more sparsely documented. In a Book of the Dead written for a woman it says: 'I have not had intercourse with any woman in the sacred places of my city god/11 but beyond doubt the text was copied from a 'male' version and an obvious mistake has not been corrected. But the possibility had, nevertheless, entered some people's minds, for in a dream book for women it is said: 'If she dreams that a woman has intercourse with her, she will come to a bad end.' (P. Carlsberg XIII, b2, 33)12.."
--By Lise Manniche. 2013. Sexual Life in Ancient Egypt
Likewise the traditional West African Yoruba devalued homosexuality as a way of life not because of evil "bible thumpers" but because homosexuality fails to affirm key cultural and religious principles related to childbearing, progeny and the linkage of such into the afterlife and its ancestral realm. QUOTE:
"The ontology of the human spirit’s journey between the otherworld and earth and the value Yoruba place on progeny also explain why homosexuality as a way of life is absent in Yorubaland. Although homosexual relations are known to exist, it would be inconceivable for Yoruba not to perpetuate the spirits of their forebears. Both men's and women’s significance in life is judged by the number of children they bring into the world. To have no children is regarded as a great human tragedy." -- Margaret Thompson Drewal. 1992. Yoruba Ritual: Performers, Play, Agency. p 186
African thus did not need European bible "thumpers" to come and tell them about a hetero-normative norm, or to develop negative moral views or practical disapproval as far as homosexuality. Again, this does not mean there was not such activity in place but the guiding practice or norm of the society did not embrace it, or viewed it negatively. The existence of, or tolerance of outliers, whether openly, in limited special contexts or secretly on the "down low," does not change the general pattern, whatever the local variation in different places. --------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as far as Africa, it is glaringly obvious that some activity would be present. Given a continent of hundreds of millions and millennia of occupation, of course homosexuality in some form or variant was in place, somewhere, over almost 12 million square miles of territory to work with. Hardly surprising, and hardly news. Yawn.. In general most African societies did not valorize homosexuality or hold it in esteem equal to the normative. Was there tolerance for small groups, outliers or individuals in various places on the continent? Sure. But put outliers on the same status with other key societal-wide institutions like hetero marriage, as in the push now in many parts of the the modern West? Not at all. Few pre-colonial Africans for example were handing over the traditional dowries in cattle, goods or money for homosexual "marriages." Such a central feature of many African societies, is not merely gift giving between lovers, but ties together clans, lineages, families. etc with serious, society-wide political and economic ramifications. As such it was reserved for the hetero norm, not outlier activity.
As far as Shaka "never reported with a female" this is questionable. He quite possibly had male lovers, just like European rulers like Hadrian or Alexander the Great, but he also had multiple wives and concubines documented as shown below (De Vries 2015) and he had "relations" with said wives and concubines per both European and Zulu sources.
So to say Shaka was "never reported with a female" is rather dubious.
QUOTE: "..suggest that he was most likely a latent homosexual and was impotent with women (Gluckman 1960, Morris 1966). Such a conjecture cannot be substantiated with the limited information we have about Shaka. In issues of gender-orientation, the nature-nurture question is particularly difficult to resolve. Each individual's gender-orientation is the result of a complex process of interaction between biological, environmental and psychological factors. A person acquires a homosexual orientation when an imbalance occurs between these specific biological, experiential and psychological predisposing factors, each of which evolves on its own timetable (Gadpaillc. 1989).
To the extent that family factors affect the etiology of homosexuality, a close-binding, seductive mother who devalues and dominates a rather passive, distant and hostile father is suspect. Some researchers suggest that such a family situation impairs a young boy’s normal identification process. Boys need a father figure to help them come to grips with factors such as rivalry, envy and idealization. Shaka’s family constellation, consisting of a rejecting, absent father and a close-binding mother, comes close to the suspect pattern. Without an acceptable father figure as object of identification during much of his childhood. Shaka would have been forced into a defensive identification with his mother.
Given the paucity of evidence available we can make only tentative conjectures about Shaka's gender-orientation. Although some would predict homosexuality on the basis of his family constellation, the historical record suggests that he enjoyed associating with some of the women in his seraglio. Nathaniel Isaacs repeatedly made reference to Shaka retiring from a discussion and amusing himself with his ladies. What the nature of this ‘amusement’ was. we will never know.
Shaka’s childhood games of warfare, though dictated to some extent by the hostility of others, also suggest heterosexuality. Play behaviors and preferences in childhood that follow the typical interests of girls are generally considered a predictive factor (among many) for later homosexuality, and gender non-conformity in childhood and homosexual preferences in adolescence have been correlated with adult homosexuality. The historical record reveals no hint of the feminine in the young Shaka."
--By Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries. 2015. Lessons on Leadership by Terror: Finding Shaka Zulu in the Attic.
And as the author above suggests, it was European historians such as Gluckman 1960, and Morris 1966, that imposed a "gay" Shaka on to the historical record, when in fact it is mostly sheer speculation on their part, and not based on any credible or substantial evidence. This par for the course with some European writers on southern Africa, where exaggeration, distortion and even fantasy seem in evidence when it would help book sales. One white writer for example, Nathaniel Isaacs, visited Zululand, wrote to Henry Fynn, a white adventurer, trader and quasi-local chieftain, who was about to issue a book- QUOTE:
"Hear you are about to publish. Do make Shaka out to be as bloodthirsty as you can; it helps swell out the work and make it interesting." --Dan Wylie. 2006. Myth of Iron: Shaka in History. 14-45
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan aka Enrique Cardova: "White people" didn't "purge" homosexuality from Africa. SOME European teachings devalued homosexuality, but then again some African teaching or practice did the same.
Actually they did, and they did so with the Bible. There is a pattern of this behavior change, not only in Africa, but around the World.
Africa
" In the Buganda Kingdom, part of modern-day Uganda, King Mwanga II was openly gay and faced no hate from his subjects until white men brought the Christian church and its condemnation . Though King Mwanga is the most prominent African recorded as being openly gay, he was not alone."
America
"Two-spirit people were respected by native societies not only due to religious attitudes, but also because of practical concerns. Because their gender roles involved a mixture of both masculine and feminine traits, two-spirit persons could do both the work of men and of women. They were often considered to be hard workers and artistically gifted, of great value to their extended families and community. Among some groups, such as the Navajo, a family was believed to be economically benefited by having a "nadleh" (literally translated as "one who is transformed") androgynous person as a relative. Two-spirit persons assisted their siblings' children and took care of elderly relatives, and often served as adoptive parents for homeless children. ...In the 20th-century, as homophobic European Christian influences increased among many Native Americans, respect for same-sex love and for androgynous persons greatly declined . Two-spirit people were often forced, either by government officials, Christian missionaries or their own community, to conform to standard gender roles. Some, who could not conform, either went underground or committed suicide."
Asia
" Name, Shame and Blame Criminalising Consensual Sex in Papua New Guinea
and
What ever happened to ritualized homosexuality? Modern sexual subjects in Melanesia and elsewhere
In this paper, I examine the legacy of ritualized homosexuality as a behavioral practice and as an analytic category of research in Melanesia since the early 1980s. A case study of striking change among the Gebusi of Papua New Guinea suggests that ritualized homosexuality and insemination of boys have become behaviorally vestigial or moribund and that characterizing sexual practices in these terms has been difficult to begin with (as the original proponent of these terms has himself suggested). Historical change in Melanesia reveals linkage between the contemporary construction of heterosexual norms and desires for locally modern development and progress. A larger issue is how researchers of sexuality may unwittingly accept Western ideologies of sexual choice and freedom while positing historical and non-Western practices as culturally bound rather than being open to individual exploration and interpersonal diversity.
So what these examples show is that in every continent mentioned there were Black people who practiced homosexuality freely, and were well respected members of the society. In the case of New Guinea there is even ritualistic homosexuality among not only the "gay" boys but the general male populations before Europeans came and literally criminalized those willing actions among Black people. Therefore I have to insist that Europeans did purge open homosexuality from Africa, as the it follows the same patterns elsewhere.
quote:Likewise the traditional West African Yoruba devalued homosexuality as a way of life not because of evil "bible thumpers" but because homosexuality fails to affirm key cultural and religious principles related to childbearing, progeny and the linkage of such into the afterlife and its ancestral realm.
That's more rhetorical than anything based in facts. We know from the citations that homosexuals were more often to be Shamans, priest etc, why in the World would anyone consider people who are characterized as playing such a pivotal role in tribal societies be regarded has having menial roles? Is more proof needed of our shamanic tendencies? Why would a "Shaman" of all people not embody "key cultural and religious principals". That's faulty logic in my opinion.
The Yoruba themselves like everyone else practiced and even have words for homosexuals.
"Tade Akin Aina, a sociologist at the University of lagos, has written about male concubines and male prostitutes (many of whom double as pimps for female prostitutes) in contemporary cities such as Lagos and Kana. Patrons often “operate plural relationships with a retinue of young men,” who may use the resources they derive from their homosexual liaisons to pursue heterosexual sex:
“They are often identifiable as big spenders and playboy socialites” (1991: 88). The male prostitutes that he interviewed in Kano and Lagos still believe that there are magical and witchcraft effects associated with male homosexual intercourse . They also believe that if the dominant partner is a businessman, such associations confer spiritual benefits to his business. This, they state, affects the price they place on their services. Also it is felt that homosexuality conveys some unique advantages on its practitioners; for instance, they feel that homosexuals tend to be rich and successful men .... [They] feel that they are at risk of becoming impotent (the “eunuch effect”) or permanently incapable of conventional heterosexual relations once any of their clients exploit the relationship for ritual or witchcraft purposes…. Among the Nigerian prostitutes spoken to, modern risks such as AIDS or sexually transmitted diseases did not carry weight as sources of fear. (88)"
So Yoruba homosexuals were not "marginalized", and in fact the opposite was seen. Homosexuals were the WEALTHY people of the society, and they even had beliefs of spiritual superiority. This is a stark difference from the margination of gays that you imply based on essentially rhetoric.
The citations by myself above regarding Native Americans, makes it clear that aside from Shaman roles homosexuals filled the voids of a society. The examples are listed, which include voluntarily taking care of the elderly, raising orphaned children, participation in warfare, as well as our above average contribution to the culture of any society.
" In 1921, German ethnographer Günther Tessmann quoted a local calling homosexuality a "national custom"[3][4][5] among the Bafia people in his book Die Homosexualität bei den Negern Kameruns. He later on described the three stages of life of a Bafia man, namely:[6]
kiembe, men who did have any sexual relationships with women. It starts around 15 years old. ntu, men who had sexual relationships with women. mbäng, fathers, men who have children. Kiembe boys were prohibited to have sexual and social contacts with prepubescent girls at the risk of being tortured or enslaved; there was a fierce competition to get the available women. The only option left of those kiembe men was to develop a close male sexual friendship with a lexan, a kiembe boy of a younger or of the same age who is in the same situation, where they would often engage in ji’gele ketön, anal penetration. [7] Before the sexual act, one of the boy would ask the consent of the other person by showing them a basketry plate of earthnuts and say that if they eat one, they consent. This metaphor symbolized the apparent dirtiness of a nut coming from the ground but become sweetness of it upon tasting. These acts could happen anytime, at any place (such as at one of the boys' home) and were seen as normal. For instance, it wasn't rare for a father to come back home to witness his son performing a sexual act and to laugh it off.[8]
Where is the persecution of homosexuality at here? Where are the beheadings and public oustings and what not?
quote: African thus did not need European bible "thumpers" to come and tell them about a hetero-normative norm, or to develop negative moral views or practical disapproval as far as homosexuality.
Where is the conflict of what I stated earlier in this statement that you make? The Biafra people of Cameroon who fully engage in homosexually in adolescence are still expected to procreate eventually. Some men do however go on to be full fledge homos, and there is not evidence of their persecution.
quote: Sure. But put outliers on the same status with other key societal-wide institutions like hetero marriage, as in the push now in many parts of the the modern West? Not at all.
One thing that you are not taking into consideration is that sexuality in general has a completely different outlook in these societies before Europeans came along with shame for all sex. I agree that the whole modern "LGBT" ploy is exaggerated horseshit, lead by the dominant society. However, I have given instances where entire villages have partook in homosexuality by social tradition, so this instance of this natural African fence being put around the "outliners" is more cushion for the homophobes to come into the absolute truth. The argument that "Well gays were there, but we put them on the outskirts", is completely unfounded if that is what you are arguing. It's rhetorical cushion for the truth in my opinion.
quote: As far as Shaka "never reported with a female" this is questionable. He quite possibly had male lovers, just like European rulers like Hadrian or Alexander the Great, but he also had multiple wives and concubines documented as shown below (De Vries 2015) and he had "relations" with said wives and concubines per both European and Zulu sources.
The quote that you gave is still not really shaking this theory for me. It has been stated that Shaka has NEVER been seen with a woman, let along had been intimate with one. The source that you gave is a speculation that he may have had sex with a female. What monarch is shy about his or her sexual endeavors when they have a system where they have the pick of the litter? Not bearing children can could imply some fertility issues, but the fact that he was not ever known to knock down any of these female subjects is plain as day that he was gay. There should be NO QUESTION as to whether this SUPREME example of an alpha male was not knocking down these females at a rate of three a day! My uncles would accuse people exhibiting that behavior as "being scared of pussy". Further, as a gay person he put a cap on the twink age at 35 lol. You've already noted however the high likihood that he was knocking down his own twink soldiers for pleasure, so I think deep down we both the answer to the Shaka question.
quote: And as the author above suggests, it was European historians such as Gluckman 1960, and Morris 1966, that imposed a "gay" Shaka on to the historical record, when in fact it is mostly sheer speculation on their part, and not based on any credible or substantial evidence.
We do not even have documentation or even a NAME of his wife or female companions, so in the same breath his straight nature is also speculation. A "lack of evidence" works both ways in this regard. None the less from what I've read I'm pretty confidence that Shaka was an aggressive chicken hawk (big buck who freaks on twinks), and his unseen rage and power is one of a little known beastly gay nature that ancients knew to respect.
lol The wyte folks know. They put it in our cartoons. I'd advise you to watch the don't call me a sissy episode of the Proud Family.
Actually they did, and they did so with the Bible. There is a pattern of this behavior change, not only in Africa, but around the World.
Only in part. Long before Europeans showed up in Africa, the Egyptian teachings and the Biblical teachings were in place devaluing homosexuality. 100% the same in all places, in all eras? No, but many such teachings were centuries in place. And the Bible did not originate with Europeans. Furthermore the negative attitude many Africans feel over homosexuality is not necessarily due to "bible thumpers" but is rooted in part in the fact that homosexual activity is something many Africans consider to be marginal, done on the "down low" or in specially separated groups, initiates, and sub-cultures etc. Most Africans do not at all agree with a white western gay model, where homosexuality is something to be celebrated or embraced by the mainstream society- quite the contrary. Homosexuality does not rank equally with the cultural mainstream of male-female marriages, families, and procreation.
This is one of the key reasons for the seemingly irrational denial by many Africans that homosexuality exists on the continent. or irrational claims it was "introduced by the white man." The denialism may not substantially have anything to do with "Christian morality," but a feeling that an activity considered marginal, should REMAIN marginal- on the down low or confined to limited specialized contexts or groups- separate from the mainstream. Unlike Western gays with their Pride parades and rainbow flags, and gay high school groups, gay-friendly media and "cancel culture" clubs deployed to bash those who offend gay sensibilities or agendas, many Africans. as seen in both behavior or opinion polling seem to prefer not to deal with "gay" issues at that level at all. The seem to prefer a quieter "down-low" approach where what is marginal remains on the margins from the central mainstream.
Much homosexual activity is consensual indeed, but there is also a substantial element of coercion in some situations. When a young male is manipulated or pressured into being sodomized by other males, the reasons given may seem religio/cultural, such as "imparting" fresh semen into the targeted male, but there is a negative power dynamic at work, and the element of exploitation and abuse may be present. Africans may not be anxious for these practices to be aired far and wide- having their "backdoor linen" being exposed for all to see. The exposure of these practices thus may not be necessarily based on any "Bible thumpers" come to lecture the natives. There can be legitimate cause for discomfort at the abuse or exploitation taking place. Even so-called "innocent" or "consensual" homosexual "play" may not be "innocent" at all times given the realities of peer pressure, bullying etc etc. Each society was different, but in general, there was/is no great desire to publicly broadcast or valorize homosexual activity.
" In the Buganda Kingdom, part of modern-day Uganda, King Mwanga II was openly gay and faced no hate from his subjects until white men brought the Christian church and its condemnation . Though King Mwanga is the most prominent African recorded as being openly gay, he was not alone."
That Mwanga II had sex with men is well known, but this is hardly a positive thing. In fact it was viewed negatively by many of his subjects. Who says he had no “hate” from his subjects? One of the things that got the Christian missionaries involved in the first place was “hatred” TOWARDS MWANGA HIMSELF for his habit of forcibly sodomizing young boys. These boys objected to being sexually exploited and complained to or sought out the missionaries to escape rape or unwanted sexual advances. And they were absolutely right. Why should they passively bend over for buggery by “soul brotha” Mwanga?
In between bouts of buggery, “soul brotha” Mwanga ordered the killing of several young men who refused his sexual advances. But not only young men at his royal court were at risk. Mwanga was a sort of African gay predator. Not only black male children and teenagers were at risk but black males in general as well. QUOTE:
“..1884 to 1888, was widely reported to have engaged in sexual relations with his male subjects. Researcher Ambrose Mukasa said: ‘It is documented that King Mwanga II had many young men in his palace and was sodomizing them at his will. ‘When missionaries introduced Christianity and some of the young men were baptized and taught about the dangers of homosexuality, they started denying Mwanga the usual “pleasure” he used to get from them.’ Mwanga reportedly became annoyed and went wild wondering how mere pages had started disobeying him. He clashed with the missionaries. He instructed the killing of all the young men w ho disobeyed him - with the executions taking place between 1885 and 1887. And the murdered young men were considered martyrs because they resolved to die for their new religion rather than surrendering their bodies to the king.
The word Bbaffe in Buganda kingdom means ‘our husband9. All subjects in Buganda under Mwanga, including men, were instructed to refer to king Mwaga as Bbaffe because to him, men were also his wives. ‘Even men referred to king Mwanga II as Bbaffe w hich means that he was free to sodomize any man he wanted after all he was the husband for all men and women,9 said an elder in Buganda, Siomon Mugere. On April 1899, Mwanga was forced out of his kingdom and exiled by the British into the Seychelles Islands, where he was detained until his death.” -- Khanye Tsebo. 2015. From Africa To America To The World. Pg 8..
Many in Mwanga’s kingdom had plenty of reasons to “hate” the mofo. In a sense, the Europeans did the African peoples of the region a solid by helping to check this black gay predator.
”...In the 20th-century, as homophobic European Christian influences increased among many Native Americans, respect for same-sex love and for androgynous persons greatly declined . Two-spirit people were often forced, either by government officials, Christian missionaries or their own community, to conform to standard gender roles. Some, who could not conform, either went underground or committed suicide."
This is questionable. No one has established what the homosexual level (10? 20%?) of the so-called “two-spirit” people were to begin with. Various accounts at any rate show in some places they were marginal to the mainstream. Recognized in SOME cultures and tolerated- certainly. But in others devalued per the core values o: lineages, reproduction, inheritance, governance etc And who says they were necessarily homosexual? A number of researchers criticize a homosexual interpretation on what is a complex mix of religio/cultural strands. Some “two-spirit” people were only such symbolically without any “gay action.” Others were small secret societies conducting limited homosexual action as part of a limited ritual, open only to a limited number of ritual practitioners. Visible yes, but a mixed picture. In some cultures- open, others marginal. Some scholars warn against the imposition of modern “gay” interpretations of the cultures of other people.
In this paper, I examine the legacy of ritualized homosexuality as a behavioral practice and as an analytic category of research in Melanesia since the early 1980s. A case study of striking change among the Gebusi of Papua New Guinea suggests that ritualized homosexuality and insemination of boys have become behaviorally vestigial or moribund and that characterizing sexual practices in these terms has been difficult to begin with (as the original proponent of these terms has himself suggested).
Sure. Homosexuality and insemination of boys by men did take place, and some of it was apparently consensual. But some of it WASN’T consensual. What you don’t mention is that in the same book there are several cases of forcible sodomy perpetrated on boys, teens and young adults. This is not unusual for colonies. Colonial court cases elsewhere, such as in early 1900s southern Africa show several hundred cases of black boys being raped by black men, which is a key reason that the cases came before the colonial regime courts in the first place.
So what these examples show is that in every continent mentioned there were Black people who practiced homosexuality freely, and were well respected members of the society. In the case of New Guinea there is even ritualistic homosexuality among not only the "gay" boys but the general male populations before Europeans came and literally criminalized those willing actions among Black people. Therefore I have to insist that Europeans did purge open homosexuality from Africa, as the it follows the same patterns elsewhere.
You are correct in part that practice existed. Your own examples show homosexuality practiced freely in SOME cases, but they also show that those raped and forcibly sodomized had no such “freedom.” You speak of “gay” boys. SOME no doubt were. Others were sexually exploited and raped black children. Colonial regimes and missionaries got involved not simply because they disliked consensual “gay” sex, but because they saw young black boys and teenagers being sexually abused. There are literally multiple hundreds of court cases to this effect.
Far from Europeans “purging” homosexuality, it was to continue in various forms, some more muted or disguised. But the European colonialists had a legitimate right to regulate it, in view of the sexual abuse and exploitation of black males. Indeed it could be argued that Christian morality helped complement traditional African morality in terms of putting a check against homosexual behavior that undermined core African values on male-female marriage, children etc.
That's more rhetorical than anything based in facts. We know from the citations that homosexuals were more often to be Shamans, priest etc, why in the World would anyone consider people who are characterized as playing such a pivotal role in tribal societies be regarded has having menial roles? Is more proof needed of our shamanic tendencies? Why would a "Shaman" of all people not embody "key cultural and religious principals". That's faulty logic in my opinion.
Well you yourself are offering sweeping rhetoric rather than facts. Who says homosexuals were more likely to be shamans, priests etc? This is not necessarily so. Few of the great medicine men like Chief Joseph or Sitting Bull show any "gay" identifications. From the record. SOME shamans etc were homosexuals. OTHERS were not. And your shaman example only applies as far as SOME Indian cultures. Trying to extend the Indian pattern to Africa is similarly dubious. SOME African secret society types were homosexuals. But most others in Africa were not. Most of guilds of metalworkers for example were not made up of or driven by homosexuality. Most African rulers were not homosexuals like Mwanga. And its African scholars that note what I say above- that homosexuality is regarded as a marginal influence, in view of the key cultural and religious principles that drive Yoruba culture for example. A similar pattern applies to most African cultures in general::
“The emphasis on manliness in traditional Africa and the need for males to be ready to go into battle almost at a moment’s notice against enemy tribes or clans must have led to the discouragement of any unmanly or “feminine” tendencies. There are even reports of ritualistic procedures in some societies designed to “purge” or sublimate “unnatural” tendencies before they take root. However, apart from homophobia, the most important factor working against homosexuality in Africa is the universal insistence on marriage and having children. People who might have been disinclined to find lifelong partners in the opposite sex find themselves obligated to do so because of relentless societal and familial pressure and because, once they get to a certain age, partners are found for them in any case.” -- Eustace Palmer. 2021. Africa: An Introduction.
he Yoruba themselves like everyone else practiced and even have words for homosexuals.
Sure, but again, homosexuals are a marginal force of influence on the central culture. As already stated, there are plenty of “gay” outliers, marginals, special small groups etc to go around, but in general, on the average, they remain marginal.
"Tade Akin Aina, a sociologist at the University of lagos, has written about male concubines and male prostitutes (many of whom double as pimps for female prostitutes) in contemporary cities such as Lagos and Kana. Patrons often “operate plural relationships with a retinue of young men,” who may use the resources they derive from their homosexual liaisons to pursue heterosexual sex:
“They are often identifiable as big spenders and playboy socialites” (1991: 88). The male prostitutes that he interviewed in Kano and Lagos still believe that there are magical and witchcraft effects associated with male homosexual intercourse . They also believe that if the dominant partner is a businessman, such associations confer spiritual benefits to his business. This, they state, affects the price they place on their services. Also it is felt that homosexuality conveys some unique advantages on its practitioners; for instance
So Yoruba homosexuals were not "marginalized", and in fact the opposite was seen. Homosexuals were the WEALTHY people of the society, and they even had beliefs of spiritual superiority. This is a stark difference from the margination of gays that you imply based on essentially rhetoric.
The marginalization picture is mixed, true, but your own example of the male prostitutes undermine your argument somewhat, for the very same male prostitutes, whatever the “magical” powers they imagine accrue from sodomy, remain a marginal societal element. Same for the concubines. They exist sure, but often the source of their influence is to hookup with wealthy clients. They, like most prostitutes elsewhere, remain marginal and devalued, and are not accorded the same societal respect accorded mainstream families and individuals. Some male homosexuals businessmen as mentioned above may become rich, that that is due to their businesses, not buggery.
One thing that you are not taking into consideration is that sexuality in general has a completely different outlook in these societies before Europeans came along with shame for all sex. I agree that the whole modern "LGBT" ploy is exaggerated horseshit, lead by the dominant society. However, I have given instances where entire villages have partook in homosexuality by social tradition, so this instance of this natural African fence being put around the "outliners" is more cushion for the homophobes to come into the absolute truth. The argument that "Well gays were there, but we put them on the outskirts", is completely unfounded if that is what you are arguing. It's rhetorical cushion for the truth in my opinion.
Actually it is very well founded and the “gay” villages illustrate the point. Homosexuality did exist, but many cultures did “fence” it off. There may have been “gay” villages, but what stands out about them is that they remain outliers to the general mainstream of villages.
The quote that you gave is still not really shaking this theory for me. It has been stated that Shaka has NEVER been seen with a woman, let along had been intimate with one. The source that you gave is a speculation that he may have had sex with a female.
But you yourself give no credible source that Shaka “NEVER” was seen with a woman. Says who? The source I give incorporates both Zulu and European sources and they clearly indicate that Shaka did indeed indulge in sexual activity with females, and he indeed had a large seraglio of wives and concubines to that end. So your claim about “it is reported” that Shaka “never was seen” with females, doesn’t hold any water.
What monarch is shy about his or her sexual endeavors when they have a system where they have the pick of the litter? Not bearing children can could imply some fertility issues, but the fact that he was not ever known to knock down any of these female subjects is plain as day that he was gay.
You keep insinuating things like “it was reported” or “it was known” – sheer speculation. ”Known” by who? “Reported” by who? You have proferred no credible evidence at all, just opinion Whereas I have already demonstrated from the historical record that Shaka did indeed have wives and women and did indulged with them.
We do not even have documentation or even a NAME of his wife or female companions, so in the same breath his straight nature is also speculation.
Simply because some white guy did not write down the names of various precolonial "concubines of the week” is weak beer indeed for arguing Shaka was "gay."
“his unseen rage and power is one of a little known beastly gay nature that ancients knew to respect.”
That “beastly gay nature” you refer to was not necessarily respected, for it oft involved sexual abuse of black children, teenagers and young adults., as the activities of the beastly "soul brotha" Mwanga show.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan aka Enrique Cardova:Only in part. Long before Europeans showed up in Africa, the Egyptian teachings and the Biblical teachings were in place devaluing homosexuality.
How does that work when the oldest Egyptian story, which is that of Horus and Set literally details how Set the uncle literally seduced his nephew, and said "my, what nice bottox you have" (along those lines), and proceeded to bust a nut in his booty. In the oldest African story, the details of homosexuality are vivid. Yet you are trying to claim that this was action was not known. How could the general population adhering the Ausarian religion possibly relate to such a taboo action for it to be referenced?
Horus and Set Then Set said to Horus: "Come, let us have a feast day at my house." And Horus said to him: "I will, I will." Now when evening had come, a bed was prepared for them, and they lay down together. At night, Set let his member become stuff, and he inserted it between the thighs of Horus. And Horus placed his hand between his thighs and caught the semen of Set.
-- Story of Horus and Set
After Osiris' eventual death, while Horus was growing up and planning his own revenge, Set and Horus engaged in a homosexual relationship. In one part of the myth, Set proclaimed to Horus, "How lovely your backside is." Informing his mother Isis about his uncle's ardour, Horus is told to catch Set's semen rather than becoming impregnated by the murderer of his father. Set, in doing so, was planning on humiliating Horus by showing the gods that Horus would be filled with someone else's semen.
Horus and Isis's next plan was to 'impregnate' Set with Horus' semen. His mother spreads powerful unguents on Horus' penis, after which he ejaculated into a jar, and they spread it on some lettuce, a favourite aphrodisiac to the ancient Egyptians. Set then eats the semen-covered lettuce, and so Horus (rather than Set with his first 'attack') becomes sexually dominant over his uncle. Set then asked the gods to bring the semen forth from the 'impregnated' one, to humiliate Osiris' son. The semen comes out of Set himself, and he becomes the laughing stock of the gods!
These are very "pausible" moments captured in this most ancient African story. It's full of males lusting after and inseminating one another, and yet you are trying hold strong to your conviction that homosexual behavior was somehow a taboo in African society.
quote: Furthermore the negative attitude many Africans feel over homosexuality is not necessarily due to "bible thumpers" but is rooted in part in the fact that homosexual activity is something many Africans consider to be marginal, done on the "down low" or in specially separated groups,
"Subcultures" like the traditional African priesthoods right? These subculture initiates who are often characterized as homosexuals, play an integral part in the local tribal religions obviously.
A priest serves a particular god or spirit and watches over the behavior and needs of its adherents. An elder member of a lineage group may be the priest of the clan's ancestral cult. A secret society may have its own priest, and a priest may also serve the guardian spirit of a compound or village.
That being said and proven through sources already presented, what would make a tribe ostracize it's own priest/spiritual gatekeepers? It makes no sense? I notice that you have not really spoken to this fact yet. Please do.
quote: Most Africans do not at all agree with a white western gay model , where homosexuality is something to be celebrated or embraced by the mainstream society
You're building strawmen to knock over. What is the "Western gay model" firstly? If you're going to say that cross dressing and flamboyancy is it's product, well good luck with that argument.
quote: Homosexuality does not rank equally with the cultural mainstream of male-female marriages, families, and procreation.
Why would they even be ranked for? They serve two different purposes. One is strictly for pleasure, why the other is meant for that and procreation. How does invoke a competition? That is to assume that the men engaging in homosexuality could not have been bisexual. That is a gay couple, and the girl basically carried their baby. Where is the procreation issue at?
It's asinine that some people are trying to make this a whole us vs them thing. It has never been that case in history to my knowledge. In ancient Greece where homosexuality was documented to be a normal function of society, I fail to see where procreation of this once "elite" civilization was an issue. Rome as well. We all know that those southern Euros got down in many ways sexually, but this argument issues in a society as a result of sexual fluidity is an Afrocentric fallacy, and a low IQ cop out for Black men to deny the possibility of their own sexual dynamics.
quote: This is one of the key reasons for the seemingly irrational denial by many Africans that homosexuality exists on the continent. or irrational claims it was "introduced by the white man." The denialism may not substantially have anything to do with "Christian morality," but a feeling that an activity considered marginal, should REMAIN marginal- on the down low or confined to limited specialized contexts or groups- separate from the mainstream.
We have documented evidence of homosexuality in all corners of Africa, but today many if not most of these Africans will flat out deny that these practices were normalized (meaning people didn't gasp in shock when they saw these individuals in their sexual nature). What I'm not really getting from you, is what made these once normalized/accepted inviduals of society go into hiding? What was the catalyst that made the Bafia people of Cameroon stop their ancient traditions of normalized homosexuality among young men? It's not like that today openly, so what changed the openess? What put shame in their hearts towards their own traditions? I'm willing to bet that this was the result of the Bible/religion, especially given the timeline of the change in behavior. We're not referencing ancient stone writings in this case for the behavior, we're referring to recent (in the last two centuries) documented activity.
I literally just presented an article about Black people in Southeast Asia, who were shamed and persecuted into giving up their ritualized homosexuality to the point that they deny it's placement in the recent past. That being said the pattern is apparent. The spreading of Europeans brought about the spread of anti gayness in all corners of the Earth, and in the same time frame.
quote: Unlike Western gays with their Pride parades and rainbow flags, and gay high school groups, gay-friendly media and "cancel culture" clubs deployed to bash those who offend gay sensibilities or agendas,
Whyte LGBT cultism has nothing to do with homosexuality. LGBT is a modern wyte supremacist political party/cult, and is really irrelevant to the discussion of homosexuality in precolonial Africa.
quote: Much homosexual activity is consensual indeed, but there is also a substantial element of coercion in some situations.
Meanwhile
straight men every single day and night solicit young females. Stop with this asinine double standard. "Old innocent young boys" no just like the little girl prostitutes the gay men have the same hustle only without the need of a pimp. I want to you really understand how obtuse you sound, actually trying to scape goat the ills of the Worlds oldest known profession onto a marginalized group. Grow up man.
quote: When a young male is manipulated or pressured into being sodomized by other males, the reasons given may seem religio/cultural, such as "imparting" fresh semen into the targeted male, but there is a negative power dynamic at work, and the element of exploitation and abuse may be present.
Meanwhile on the hetero side;
Confronting a Sexual Rite of Passage in Malawi
CHIRADZULU, Malawi — A slight frame gives her the appearance of a child, but the hardened look Grace Mwase wears makes her seem older than her 14 years. In many villages across Malawi, a largely agrarian sliver of a country in southern Africa, custom dictates that both boys and girls as young as 8 attend a rite of passage known as “initiation,” after which they are no longer seen as children. The practice is most entrenched in the country’s south, where Mwase’s Golden Village is located.
Little girls are forced to be inseminated by the King AGAINST THEIR WILL as part of their ancient rituals.
quote: Africans may not be anxious for these practices to be aired far and wide- having their "backdoor linen" being exposed for all to see.
You ignore the most frequent "child rape" on the continent which is that of little girls being forced into traditional marriages where they are forced to have sex with straight men. But because this sex is considered "natural" in many Afrocentric eyes it's perfectly fine, and violations are noted. You're so worried about backdoor access that you're ignoring that the front door has already been kicked in! smh
quote: Even so-called "innocent" or "consensual" homosexual "play" may not be "innocent" at all times given the realities of peer pressure, bullying etc etc.
The book that I've been citing for many of these examples has made mention of the laws against rape of any gender. Even when the strong men decide that they're going to rape a soft lady boy, which happens to this very day very often. So called "straight men" (many white) are killing or incapacitating their tranny prostitutes. My relative sadly was a victim.
quote:That Mwanga II had sex with men is well known, but this is hardly a positive thing. In fact it was viewed negatively by many of his subjects. Who says he had no “hate” from his subjects? One of the things that got the Christian missionaries involved in the first place was “hatred” TOWARDS MWANGA HIMSELF for his habit of forcibly sodomizing young boys.
More double standard nonsense;
King of This Ancient African 'Kingdom State' Picks a 'Virgin' Bride Every Year
Do you honestly want to sit here and believe that beautiful young women want to be climbed on by an out of shape older man? Let me find the one article that I read a few years back, where the king of one African society bones ALL the girls and they HATE IT. Now there are World women's rights advocates who are calling this out, that you don't seem to find a problem with. Nonetheless you tried to take it there, and make it seem that only the gay king had unwilling paiges to fuck on, when in reality just about all traditional monarchs across the globe have this practice from a hetero standpoint. Do you see how juvenile your anti gay prejudice makes you look in these assessments?
quote:In between bouts of buggery, “soul brotha” Mwanga ordered the killing of several young men who refused his sexual advances.
OMG man. You're really trying to hold up this double standard. As though women subjects in traditional African society actually had/have the right to reject the advances of a king without some form of reprisal for breaking tradition. If the Bafia females did not want to be with an older established man, and chose a young boy she would killed or ran out of the village. But you don't have outrage for that?
quote:The word Bbaffe in Buganda kingdom means ‘our husband9. ...
That seems like a traditional abuse of power that straight men to this day in Africa do to their wives or other women subjects. A gay rapist is kind of absurd outside of "Dauhmer culture". Gay sex is not really that spontaneous for obvious reasons. None the less despite those subjects being angry at him, his Kingdom stood behind him when he executed those who refused him. The Europeans in their typical divide and conquer scheme used their new Christian followers to form a coup against this king that openly opposed European influence on his land.
quote:Many in Mwanga’s kingdom had plenty of reasons to “hate” the mofo. In a sense, the Europeans did the African peoples of the region a solid by helping to check this black gay predator.
Hmmmm so you side with the most destructive entities to ever come into Africa (Eurasian colonial religious institutions), and their eventual takeover through divide conquer than you would with an African traditionalist who was determined to keep their influence out of his kingdom? You hate homosexuality more than your own subjugation. Let's read the info.
Mwanga came to the throne at the age of 16. He increasingly regarded the greatest threat to his rule as coming from the Christian missionaries who had gradually penetrated Buganda. His father had played-off the three religious traditions - Catholics, Protestants, and Muslims - against each other and thus had balanced the influence of the powers that were backing each group in order to extend their reach into Africa . Mwanga II took a much more aggressive approach, expelling missionaries and insisting that [B]Christian converts abandon their faith or face death . A year after becoming king he executed Yusufu Rugarama, Makko Kakumba, and Nuuwa Sserwanga, who had converted to Christianity. On 29 October 1885, he had the incoming archbishop James Hannington assassinated on the eastern border of his kingdom ....These murders and Mwanga's continued resistance alarmed the British, who backed a rebellion by Christian and Muslim groups who supported Mwanga's half brother and defeated Mwanga at Mengo in 1888.
So his paiges not letting him fuck pissed him off, but to equate his entire gripe with the missionaries (THE SAME GRIPE THAT SHAKA ZULU HAD) with that instance is passive dishonestly. This king saw Europeans as a threat to his kingdom's stability as his forefathers did before his sex issue became a problem, so he became proactive in cleansing the land. In the midst of him cleansing the land he see's his harem basically saying that he isn't the king anymore because the wtye people who he's warring with said so, and or treason.
quote: This is questionable. No one has established what the homosexual level (10? 20%?) of the so-called “two-spirit” people were to begin with. Various accounts at any rate show in some places they were marginal to the mainstream.
So now the straw man that you are imposing on my argument is that the "majority of the population was 2 spirit". Dude! You are doing your best to avoid what my evidence is proving. That gay people were a normal part of precolonial societies around the World. The role for the homosexuals in the Americas is more documented, and we can see that they played an integral part of the society. So now that it's proven that homosexuality was normal in these societies, you try to make my argument out to be that the majority of the populace had this status.
quote: Recognized in SOME cultures and tolerated- certainly. But in others devalued per the core value s o: lineages, reproduction, inheritance, governance etc
Those are YOUR core values, that YOU are imposing on these people. You have no evidence of two spirit/gay people being maltreated in these societies before the European.
quote: And who says they were necessarily homosexual?
You are a on such a mission to conceal this truth smh.
In this paper, I examine the legacy of ritualized homosexuality as a behavioral practice and as an analytic category of research in Melanesia since the early 1980s. A case study of striking change among the Gebusi of Papua New Guinea suggests that ritualized homosexuality and insemination of boys have become behaviorally vestigial or moribund and that characterizing sexual practices in these terms has been difficult to begin with (as the original proponent of these terms has himself suggested).
quote: Sure. Homosexuality and insemination of boys by men did take place, and some of it was apparently consensual. But some of it WASN’T consensual.
Do you know understand your lack of logic.
Fact #1 - consensual sex exist Fact #2 - rape also exist in all societies Your inference - The existence of a rape issue nulls out the possibly of any unrelated consensual sex.
Just absurd smh.
quote:Well you yourself are offering sweeping rhetoric rather than facts. Who says homosexuals were more likely to be shamans, priests etc? This is not necessarily so. Few of the great medicine men like Chief Joseph or Sitting Bull show any "gay" identifications.
" According to Cavazzi, the Ganga-Ya-Chibanda routinely cross-dressed and was addressed as
“grandmother.” The element chibanda in his title is certainly related to other terms used by Bantu- speakers in the region for nonmasculine males who are often shamans and have sex with other men
(for example, chibadi, chibado, jimbandaa, hibamba, and quimbanda— see Part III).
"An early twentieth-century dictionary includes the Rundi terms umuswezi and umukonotsi, trans- lated as “sodomite,” and at least five Rundi words for male-male sexuality (kuswerana nk’imbwa,
kunonoka, hwitomba, kuranana inyuma, ku’nyo). The dictionary also appears to document gender- mixing priests among the Mirundi (Hutu and Tutsi), called ikihindu and ikimaze (translated as “her- maphrodite,” a very imprecise label at that time)"
"As among many other African peoples, Yoruba spirit possession (òrìsà: gìgún) is primarily associated
with women. Most Sango priests are female, and those who are not dress in women’s clothing, cos- metics, and jewelry and sport women’s coiffures when they are going to be possessed Most Sango priests are female, and those who are not dress in women’s clothing, cos- metics, and jewelry and sport women’s coiffures when they are going to be possessed (Matory 1994:
6-7, also see 183-215; H. Baumann 1955: 3335; Matory 1986: 51).
"although in Latin America (and probably in Mediterranean Europe as well) not particularly masculine boys and/or those not showing signs of being sexually interested in females traditionally have been channeled into the priesthood .
Thus, there is a social view of the priesthood as a niche. Moreover, for many men in Latin cul- tures, the manhood of priests is suspect . Respect for them is frequently low; jokes about their
“dresses” and lack of cojones (testicles properly bursting With semen that must out) are com- monplace."
So from these examples that I gave there is definitely a noted proclivity for homosexuals to be involved in the priesthood.
quote: The marginalization picture is mixed, true, but your own example of the male prostitutes undermine your argument somewhat, for the very same male prostitutes, whatever the “magical” powers they imagine accrue from sodomy, remain a marginal societal element.
Umm did you miss the part of the society where the males who partake in buttsex with the boy prostitutes are the APEX of the community? They are the "whose who" in the society, so what are you talking about them being marginalized? How can you be an APEX and also be marginalized?
quote: Actually it is very well founded and the “gay” villages illustrate the point...did exist, but many cultures did “fence” it off
Or they simply had a belief that homosexuals are spiritually superior (hence the priestly inclination), and that the best of our contributions would come from the collective of us rather than isolated by normal folks.
quote: But you yourself give no credible source that Shaka “NEVER” was seen with a woman.
Name is his wife. It's that simple. Let's say he was sterile, Ok. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't have a life long partner(s) should it? Where is his family/children? He was born out of wedlock himself, so the idea that if he was freakin some thots he would have some bastard children running around the village, but there are no reports. He was gay man, just accept it. A king with no wife was a prophet and was the singular most dominating monarch in recorded Southern African history. This males essentially did what the pharaohs of the Nile did thousands of years prior, and he no one can name his wife. That really defied the rhetoric that behind every great King is a great Queen.
Not to mention Queen Nzinga, the other big dog in Southern-Central Africa was known to have boy wives concubines.
"The thing about Nzinga is her title was Ngola, and Ngola means king," Owunna said. "Nzinga ruled dressed in full male clothing as a king, and she had a harem of young men dressed as women who were her wives. So in the 1600s, you basically had a butch queen with a bunch of drag queens for wives leading a fight against European colonization."
quote: The source I give incorporates both Zulu and European sources and they clearly indicate that Shaka did indeed indulge in sexual activity with females,
If you cannot name the woman/queen that this most powerful monarch was reported with, and even more the children that they bore then you have no argument for anything. A CHILD would be evidence of sexual intercourse, and there is no child. Only speculation. Which one of your sources that you boast named this woman?
quote: Simply because some white guy did not write down the names of various precolonial "concubines of the week” is weak beer indeed for arguing Shaka was "gay."
We have the names of the concubines whom the Ugandan King put down for their refusal to give up the ass, but it is according to you too much to get a documented name or even an oral tradition among the Zulus of this female compassion of Southern Africa's greatest king.
quote: That “beastly gay nature” you refer to was not necessarily respected, for it oft involved sexual abuse of black children, teenagers and young adults., as the activities of the beastly "soul brotha" Mwanga show.
Meanwhile in straightland
I wonder how old these potential concubine girls are for this Zulu King;
[ 16. August 2021, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Old southern Agikuyu initiation ritual included
* a mature woman who personally taught boys graduating into manhood everything about sexual intercourse
* graduating males had to gang rape an enemy woman
White European Western society moral judgements are just that white European euphemismed 'Western' moral values imposed on Africa.
Arguments that colonial ytes imposed their Bible anti-homo etc morality pretend they don't see ytes now importing their their post-Bible pro-homo etc morality as responsible for current Western non-traditional binary values that are different from those of African origin.
Outside of really old Jacobus what books detail global sex mores on their own merits not solely on indigenous European (and daughter colonies)' judgements?
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Old southern Agikuyu initiation ritual included
* a mature woman who personally taught boys graduating into manhood everything about sexual intercourse
"Mature" in this content typically means about 14-16 right? I'll find that article about the unwilling girls of other African tribes to give their virginity to the monarch.
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
No. She is a grown woman. Probably initiates at least two generations of males into the varied arts of hereosexual intercourse. The details, learned some 40 yrs ago, escape me.
Don't hate on heteros.
Don't hate on (once) traditional African practices.
Don't judge home grown African ways using your Europe metrestick.
Don't offer one Euro ideology for another in bias against the obvious.
Don't let myopia blind you to the intermediate and distant.
African peoples developed practices of their own and lived by them until when? Until Eurasian outsiders came whether Christian, Muslim, or secularist in ideology.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Arguments that colonial ytes imposed their Bible anti-homo etc morality pretend they don't see ytes now importing their their post-Bible pro-homo etc morality
So rather than ask the wytes why they are playing such a diabolical game, you come after the messenger who points out that they are the ones playing a game.
You see the game, so why not ask why?
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: No. She is a grown woman. Probably initiates at least two generations of males into the varied arts of hereosexual intercourse. The details, learned some 40 yrs ago, escape me.
Don't hate on heteros.
Don't hate on (once) traditional African practices.
Don't judge home grown African ways using your Europe metrestick.
Don't offer one Euro ideology for another in bias against the obvious.
Don't let myopia blind you to the intermediate and distant.
African peoples developed practices of their own and lived by them until when? Until Eurasian outsiders came whether Christian, Muslim, or secularist in ideology.
I just provided a link to an article that puts these hetero kings in the "pedophile" category with babies as young as EIGHT! 14 is the typical age in which they are forced to give up their virginity, and 16-18 tends to be birthing age. This really is not a secret! The Sudanese here in America regularly recruit 16 year old girls into their the Muslim harem yet no one bats an eye. As you can see from the guy above however this is a terrible sin that only gays commit.
MEANWHILE IN STRAIGHT LAND; LATE BREAKING NEWS!!!
HIP HOP NEWSBrother Polight trends on Twitter, after being accused of raping his girlfriend’s fourteen year old daughter
So wow!!!! Here you have one of the mouthpieces for anti gay hotep nonsense, being charged with drugging and raping his 14 year old daughter. What a degenerate!!!! So here we see heterosexuals engaging in what the guy above (Zaharan) tried to characterize as some gay demonic thing, when really it is quite normal in the hetero community, especially outside of the US.
"BLACK MEN HAVE NO RIGHT TRYING TO BE HOMOSEXUALS TRYING TO REPRESENT OUR COMMUNITY". - Polight the alleged Pedophile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnlRyweXYacPosts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] But anyway why is it male-male practices are OK but you deride all other African sexual practices?
Excuse my French, but what in the Hell are you talking about?
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Of course all know full well what was said to a myopic propaganda pusher feigning confusion. If not, some ESer please tell me you want a lil help to get the message.
Ah, denial when your own prejudice and bias against heteros and favor of your approved yte impositions upon and displacement of the original African ways is laid bare.
But of course you'll never admit to hating heteros and our sexual customs in Africa before any 'West Eurasian' imposed values, including any idea of a 'gay community'.
Your riling against inner African societies, who don't fit your yte Euro so-called western phony value system, is in exactly the same vein as the Christianity you use to distract your hatred of inner Africa and inner African ways approved by those peoples to maintain their social order as they created them hundreds if not thousands of years ago before either Christianity or the Gay (and whatever quasi-similar types of) Community ever existed.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Old southern Agikuyu initiation ritual included
* a mature woman who personally taught boys graduating into manhood everything about sexual intercourse
* graduating males had to gang rape an enemy woman
White European Western society moral judgements are just that white European euphemismed 'Western' moral values imposed on Africa.
Arguments that colonial ytes imposed their Bible anti-homo etc morality pretend they don't see ytes now importing their their post-Bible pro-homo etc morality as responsible for current Western non-traditional binary values that are different from those of African origin.
Outside of really old Jacobus what books detail global sex mores on their own merits not solely on indigenous European (and daughter colonies)' judgements?
.
Not the truth, 01 or any other number, to willingly twist this into a false narrative of a young girl forced to have sex. Obvious prejudice and bias and continuing propaganda of placing yte Euro so-called western values above blk inner African ones.
The very first thing noted about the Sex Teacher is "a mature woman". Not the truth, 01 or any other number, to lie and try making her into an abused young teen even after quoting and hi-liting what was actually posted. SMH. To hell with the facts when truth demands we bend fact out of shape into a 'truth' nowhere near reflective of fact.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Old southern Agikuyu initiation ritual included
* a mature woman who personally taught boys graduating into manhood everything about sexual intercourse
"Mature" in this content typically means about 14-16 right? I'll find that article about the unwilling girls of other African tribes to give their virginity to the monarch.
.
Wow, talk about non-sequitor, strawman, well poisoning, and other losing debater bag of tricks rolled into one.
And in what kind of mind imagines a not even fully biologically developed, though nubile, young teen has had the experience to know everything about practicing sexual intercourse so as to teach it as a course in the school of African adult initiation/Secret Society?
Where in the world are 14-16 year old girls mature women? Where propaganda pushers pushing their private truth reside. That's where a way past initiate grade Kenyan woman gets turned into a just graduated South African girl. South Africa where one whole society invented and approved the practice of their graduation ceremony, whether any body likes it and approves of it or not with their non-South African baNtu hateful anti-African ideologies.
Blk South African Bantu nkosi are not yte so-called western European kings who did in fact tupp every male subject's dear bride on the wedding night, a double moral violation per the very Christianity they claimed to espouse and uphold.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: No. She is a grown woman. Probably initiates at least two generations of males into the varied arts of hereosexual intercourse. The details, learned some 40 yrs ago, escape me. Don't hate on heteros. Don't hate on (once) traditional African practices. Don't judge home grown African ways using your Europe metrestick.
Don't offer one Euro ideology for another in bias against the obvious.
Don't let myopia blind you to the intermediate and distant.
African peoples developed practices of their own and lived by them until when? Until Eurasian outsiders came whether Christian, Muslim, or secularist in ideology.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
More anti-African hatred disguised as offended morality by someone very inexperienced in life, untraveled, and never read the literature on global sexual customs for nuances peculiar to continent or culture etc.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: No. She is a grown woman. Probably initiates at least two generations of males into the varied arts of hereosexual intercourse. The details, learned some 40 yrs ago, escape me. Don't hate on heteros. Don't hate on (once) traditional African practices. Don't judge home grown African ways using your Europe metrestick.
Don't offer one Euro ideology for another in bias against the obvious.
Don't let myopia blind you to the intermediate and distant.
African peoples developed practices of their own and lived by them until when? Until Eurasian outsiders came whether Christian, Muslim, or secularist in ideology.
The Sudanese here in America regularly recruit 16 year old girls into their the Muslim harem yet no one bats an eye.
.
Recruit? You mean marry don't you? Most of your precious Europe start at 14, a full 2 yrs younger than your Sudani supposedly 'morally horendous' example.
And who the f you think you are you to sit in judgement?
Forget private truths inoperative in the world as it is. Gasp, gurgle, and choke on the facts you choose to neglect
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: More anti-African hatred disguised as offended morality by someone very inexperienced in life, untraveled, and never read the literature on global sexual customs for nuances peculiar to continent or culture etc.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: No. She is a grown woman. Probably initiates at least two generations of males into the varied arts of hereosexual intercourse. The details, learned some 40 yrs ago, escape me. Don't hate on heteros. Don't hate on (once) traditional African practices. Don't judge home grown African ways using your Europe metrestick.
Don't offer one Euro ideology for another in bias against the obvious.
Don't let myopia blind you to the intermediate and distant.
African peoples developed practices of their own and lived by them until when? Until Eurasian outsiders came whether Christian, Muslim, or secularist in ideology.
The Sudanese here in America regularly recruit 16 year old girls into their the Muslim harem yet no one bats an eye.
.
Recruit? You mean marry don't you? Most of your precious Europe start at 14, a full 2 yrs younger than your Sudani supposedly 'morally horendous' example.
And who the f you think you are you to sit in judgement?
Forget private truths inoperative in the world as it is. Gasp, gurgle, and choke on the facts you choose to neglect
I'm really getting B-Rad vibes from this guy.
Your nonsensible attempt at ebonics is almost unreadable man.
Anyway, I see only a handful of African nations are at 18 years for consent. So are you going to ignore the nature of most of Africa to have sex at with "young" (16) women?
[ 21. August 2021, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
^ shrink that map down to 640. U stretchin th screen.
Ooh them nefarious Sudanis
the only Inner African countries allowing consent under 16 yrs of age (Comoros, Sahrawi, and Mauritius don't count)
Can't imagine any circumstances of an 11 yr old competent enough to consent to anything. Wonder if Muslims or Traditionalists made that law. Honestly young teens are curious and taking advantage of that imagining it's consent is in my own personal view something not to be done, legal or not.
Abuse and disappearance of teen girls is a problem among another people who have their own sexual mores not to be judged by outsiders. Amerinds on a Rez. But the perps are outsiders taking advantage of law and custom both.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Well as vetting turns out
=-=-=-=
What exactly is the age of consent in Nigeria? [Explainer] Motolani Alake June 4, 2020 7:00 AM
There has been misinformation about the Nigerian age of consent, with Nigerians being misled by a foreign website.
The Nigerian Age of Consent is 18, not 11. (This Is Africa)
As at today, if you type ‘age of consent Nigeria’ on your google search bar, the most authoritative thing you will get is from a website - ageofconsent.net - which wrongly pegs the Nigerian age of consent at 11, when it is 18.
Conversations around rape, pedophilia, child marriage and sexual harassment have intensified in the court of public opinion and have taken centre stage on Twitter, the quintessential vehicle for activism and contemporary conversations in the 21st century. Thus, the Nigerian age of consent has been subject to intense questions at such trying times.
The truth The real age of consent in Nigeria is 18. Section 31 (3) (a) of the Child's Rights Act 2003 states that, “Where a person is charged with an offence (of unlawful sexual relations with a child) under this section (31 of the same act), it is immaterial that the offender believed the person to be of or above the age of eighteen years.”
While the Law didn’t expressly provide that the age of consent in Nigeria is 18, the gamut and purport of section 31 of the Child's Rights Act implies that "the age of eighteen years" is a benchmark that could determine the difference between an adult and a child.
Thus, if "the age of eighteen years" is mentioned, the age of 18 is a determinant of whether anyone can or cannot give their consent to have sex. Some might argue on the premise of the Law, over the lack of clear statement, but the same Child's Rights Act provides that the minimum age for marriage to be 18.
The Mischief Rule of the canons of legal interpretation looks at the mischief a provision of Law seeks to rectify. By that Mischief Rule, if the Law is unconcerned with an offender’s lack of knowledge of a victim when he has carnal knowledge of her and seeks to punish that mischief (offence) regardless, and makes the age from which a person’s perception to be wrong as 18, then the age of consent is 18.
Also noteworthy is that the constitution is also silent on the minimum age of consent in Nigeria.
Why do Nigerians think the age of consent is 11?
Age of Consent in Nigeria via a simple Google search. (Google)
Asides the problem of international misinformation championed by the infamous website, ageofconsent.net, the reasons are a threefold;
The sexual offences bill.
The uncertain minimum age of marriage in Nigeria.
The problem of state Laws across Nigeria.
The unpopular Sexual Offences Bill issue
Following the very high-profile controversies of Senator Sani Ahmed Yerima who married a 13-year-old girl in 2013, second quarter 2015 birthed the Sexual Offences Bill. It was one of 46 laws hurriedly passed by the penultimate National Assembly. It stipulates life imprisonment as punishment for any individual convicted of having sexual intercourse with a minor.
But as the Law was passed, probably due to misinformation, Nigerians thought the National Assembly had reduced the age of consent from 18 to 11. Thus, Premium Times decided to do a “fact check” on the matter.
In the report, Premium Times documented criticisms from eminent Nigerians like Professor Wole Soyinka and Senior Advocate of Nigeria, Chief Femi Falana (SAN) who reportedly described the bill as “obnoxious."
Falana reportedly said, “It was that Committee (Committee on Judiciary and Legal Matters) that illegally removed the age of 18 years and replaced it with 11 years.”
Whereas in truth, Section 7 of the Sexual Offences Bill prohibits sexual intercourse with anyone between the ages of 0 to 18. It punishes offenders with life imprisonment upon conviction. That Section 7 states that;
A person who commits an act which causes penetration with a child is guilty of an offence called defilement.
A person who commits an offence of defilement with a child aged eleven years or less shall upon conviction be sentenced to imprisonment for life.
A person who commits an offence of defilement with a child between the age of twelve and fifteen years is liable upon conviction to imprisonment for life.
A person who commits an offence of defilement with a child between the age of sixteen and eighteen years is liable upon conviction to imprisonment for life.
What birthed this misinformation that '11' is the age of consent in Nigeria?
The problem stems from people who only read the provision of Section 7 (2) above which states that, “A person who commits an offence of defilement with a child aged eleven years or less shall upon conviction be sentenced to imprisonment for life.”
They interpreted the benchmark for age of consent to be 11 without reading the provisions of sub-sections (3) and (4) of that Section 7. The provisions of Section 7 (3) and (4) further prohibits sexual intercourse with children between the ages of twelve and fifteen years and sixteen and eighteen years respectively, and equally punishes those cases with life imprisonment. The criticism of the bill was popular, so it probably became a standard across international media and the object of misinformation.
The problem is also partly the draftsman's fault. He could have simply punished all sexual acts with any child under the age of 18 with life imprisonment. The breakdown of Section 7 into different ages of the Sexual Offences Bill complicated matters.
If Section 7 of the Sexual Offences Bill had simply stated that, “Anyone who is found guilty of having sexual intercourse with a child under the age of 18 will be sentenced to imprisonment for life," we might not have had this problem. Such unnecessary dichotomies (as in the aforementioned Section 7) should not be a characteristic of the legal draftsman.
The ambiguous minimum age for marriage
The Matrimonial Causes Act is silent on the minimum age for marriage in Nigeria. Section 3 (1) (e) of the same Act, which covers reasons why a marriage could be void only mentions a ‘marriageable age’ without specifying what that marriageable age means. However, Section 18 (1) of Marriage Act specifies the minimum age for marriage when consent is required to be 21.
Of all the Laws, the Child's Rights Act was the most explicit, stipulating the minimum age for marriage to be 18. However, that has only been adopted by 24 Nigerian States. Section 18 of the Child's’ Rights Act 2003 states that, “No person under the age of 18 years is capable of contracting a valid marriage, and accordingly a marriage so contracted is null and void and of no effect whatsoever.”
The problem of State Laws in Nigeria
In Nigeria, State Houses of Assembly can make Laws to operate in the state they serve. By Law in some Nigerian states, children as young as 12 could still legally get married. With the Child's Rights Act only being adopted by 24 states, 12-year-old girls can still get married in some Nigerian states.
However, where there is a clash between the provisions of State Laws and the provisions of an Act of the Federal Republic of Nigeria - passed by the National Assembly, the provisions of an Act of the National Assembly shall prevail.
Where there is a Lacunae ( no provision) on an issue by an Act of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, while a State Law has a provision on the same issue, the provision of that State Law shall be effective when the matter is required for prosecution within the walls of that state.
While pedophilia is an infamous practice across Nigeria, child marriage is more common in the North and seemingly backed up by religious claims of Islam. It is claimed that Prophet Muhammed married a 9-year-old girl. In the recent #ArewaMeToo, quite a few of those cases happened when the victim was under the age of 18 – one of the victims was 13 when she was a victim.
That said, practitioners of Islam have argued that the marriage of Prophet Muhammed to said Aisha, whose age has been repeatedly reported as nine, is a misinformation. They argue that in the days of Prophet Muhammed, girls mature faster than they do now. Some clerics have also argued that Aisha was 19 and not nine when she married Prophet Muhammed.
Some Nigerian Islamic clerics have since warned about conflating Islamic theories on marriage with primitive, yet acceptable cultural practices of child marriage in the Northern parts of Nigeria. They argue that the popularity of Child marriage in the North is not necessarily backed by Islamic or Sharia Law, but instead an incidence of primitive cultural practices in the North.
Their point is premised on how Muslims criticized Senator Sani Ahmed Yerima after he took a 13-year-old bride. These practitioners of Islam also point out that if anyone will marry any woman in Islam, the woman must verify that she;
Consents to the marriage by herself - not by her parents.
Is
physically,
mentally,
psychologically and
physiologically ready to get married.
The practitioners of Islam have a point, but it's a hard sell. If a 13-year-old girl has been conditioned to see early marriage and conception as a cultural source of pride, she will likely agree to early marriage.
Vice President Yemi Osinbajo speaks on child marriage in Nigeria. [Twitter/@ProfOsinbajo] Vice President Yemi Osinbajo speaks on child marriage in Nigeria. [Twitter/@ProfOsinbajo]
Nonetheless, Vice President Yemi Osinbajo has also noted that, “There is a positive correlation between child marriage, poverty and Illiteracy. The states with the lowest level of illiteracy have the highest rate of child brides.”
Thus, with the unpopular accepted religious and cultural standards across certain parts of Nigeria, some state Laws might be at loggerheads with provisions of a Law like the Child's Rights Act on age of consent in Nigeria.
They could state or imply the age of consent to be 11, 12, 14, 13 or 15. These provisions could also charge the batteries of misinformation and fuel people on a charade of futile intellectualism.
Actions by Citizen Gavel
Citizen Gavel is a not-for-profit organization that uses its nationwide network of Lawyers to help Citizens out of Legal fixes with no upfront payments. Theirs is a young but large network of Lawyers willing to work pro bono. The organization was active during the #EndSARS campaign and worked alongside Segun Awosusi also known as Segalink and rap legend, Ruggedman.
While a petition was circling the internet to change the age of consent in Nigeria, Pulse stumbled upon a Tweet dated February 8, 2019, by the non-profit legal organization, Citizen Gavel’s Twitter account. It sent a tweet to Google’s Twitter account, @Google to take down the misinformation that the Nigerian age of consent is the lowest in the world – pegged at 11.
Correspondences between Citizen Gavel and Google on the misinformation of the Nigerian age of consent. (Pulse Nigeria) Correspondences between Citizen Gavel and Google on the misinformation of the Nigerian age of consent. (Pulse Nigeria) Correspondences between Citizen Gavel and Google on the misinformation of the Nigerian age of consent. (Pulse Nigeria)
Speaking to Lead Counsel at Citizen Gavel, Oluwafemi Ajibade, he tells Pulse that, “On the 22nd day of November, 2018, we wrote a letter to the Nigerian branch of Google. The letter was predicated on the spread of a false information about the age of consent in Nigeria.
“The information making the rounds on the Nigerian social atmosphere at the time was that the age of consent is 11 years old. The gravity of the situation online was exacerbated by Google search results spewing out data confirming the erroneous information.
Correspondences between Citizen Gavel and Google on the misinformation of the Nigerian age of consent. (Pulse Nigeria)
“Google replied to our letter a month later. We followed the instruction stated in the reply but we have not gotten any feedback till date.
“We are not relenting our efforts to change this grossly misleading view as we have taken it upon ourselves to respond to every situation wherein the false information is being or likely to be spread and promptly correcting same.”
Despite these issues, Ajibade tells Pulse that Citizen Gavel still plans to message Google as long as the misinformation persists and continues to cause a problem on Twitter Nigeria. As at the morning of March 12, 2020, a simple search of 'age of consent Nigeria' will still bring you the false information from ageofconsent.net that the Nigerian age of consent is 11.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: the only Inner African countries allowing consent under 16 yrs of age (Comoros, Sahrawi, and Mauritius don't count)
Can't imagine any circumstances of an 11 yr old competent enough to consent to anything. Wonder if Muslims or Traditionalists made that law. Honestly young teens are curious and taking advantage of that imagining it's consent is in my own personal view something not to be done, legal or not.
Abuse and disappearance of teen girls is a problem among another people who have their own sexual mores not to be judged by outsiders. Amerinds on a Rez. But the perps are outsiders taking advantage of law and custom both.
Ok that African map/age list is disgusting, and I did not see those detailed ages in my map..
None the less, these laws are directed at heterosexual people, which highly promotes "pedophilia" throughout "Straight" Africa. That being said, please stop trying to allude to homosexuals as pedophiles. When we have nations that legally justify egregious underage sex strictly for heteros I do not want to here ANYTHING about any homosexuals having this proclivity.
ELEVEN YEAR OLD BABIES....are being fucking raped in Nigeria!!!
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01: Ok that African map/age list is disgusting, and I did not see those detailed ages in my map..
None the less, these laws are directed at heterosexual people, which highly promotes "pedophilia" throughout "Straight" Africa. That being said, please stop trying to allude to homosexuals as pedophiles. When we have nations that legally justify egregious underage sex strictly for heteros I do not want to here ANYTHING about any homosexuals having this proclivity.
ELEVEN YEAR OLD BABIES....are being fucking raped in Nigeria!!! [/QB]
Your posts read like things I'd read on twitter lol. There aren't many places in the world where "underaged" children (male or female) aren't getting molested and or r*ped. What's with the sensationalism? (did you read the excerpt above your post btw??)
Also I think the topic is on homosexuality, I think we should reduce the discussions of statutory r*pe.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
What kinda purely dee bullshih? Age of consent law only for heteros? Quit the 'gaywash'. Consent law applies to everyone regardless of personal sexual orientation. theTruth01 seems to feel consent law should apply to everyone else except his category, male homosexuals.
And who are the biggest world sex tourists going to Africa to schtupp children underage back in their own nations?
Why the very Westerners of this 21st century. This https://www.google.com/search?q="gay"+underage+sex+tourism+africa [may have to cut n paste to the URL bar for link to work] guy has no beef with them at all and wants Africa to adapt their ways and mentality. theTruth01 pushes his propaganda that it's better str8 & gay ytes pay for sex with African who'd be underage back home than South African baNtu have graduations, hallowed in tradition, celebrating successful completion through the Age Grade System, a cultural marker for much of Inner Africa as much as confirmation or bath misswah is for a good part of the Euro world.
Forget about this guy's over obvious anti-African bias prejudice and hatred where every other people on earth get a pass but Africans get screwed.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01: please stop trying to allude to homosexuals as pedophiles
.
I shouldn't even have to say I said no such thing. In the real world, outside schizoland, pedophiles come in homo and hetero criminal varieties. Duh. Obvious, except for those in search of enemies.
This is how it works. An ineffective debater begins heaping false "quotes" on a perceived opponent. It doesn't matter to prove one's innocence after lied on because the damage is already done. People'll begin to accept unwarranted accusations as factual, especially after repeated deployments of the dirty trick. One of the oldest tricks in the book. It works. Ask Trump.
This manufacturing of statements people never made proves theTruth01 is a psychopath pushing an agenda no matter what lies need to be told to achieve his goal and a hypocrite ready to be disgusted by anything except its own hedonism.
Why it is allowable is beyond me. It's OK to put false words and concepts on thread participants but using an abbreviated form of a member's username is worth moderating.
This is the the 4th time theTruth01 has proven himself an A1 Liar and yet again spitefully lied and attributed his own self-hating themes onto me in an effort to besmirch my name (I will now make up shih and lay it on him to see how far I can get away with actual character defamation since that's apparently approved by the mod. I demand all theTruth01 posts putting his own self-hateful words in my mouth be deleted as an offense above and beyond abbreviating a name.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
More theTruth01 hatred for Africa, where disgusting is not used for Europe.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01: Ok that African map/age list is disgusting,
.
26 1st &2nd world European nations of indigenous culture list age of consent under 16 years old, while only 7 Inner African countries of indigenous cultures list age of consent under 16 years old. Angola --a 2nd world economy-- raised its age of consent from 12 to 18 six years ago (unvetted), leaving Guinea BurkinaFaso Niger theDRC Malawi and Madagascar (all 3rd 4th & 5th world economies). The write-up @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Africa is a good start for vetting 'unsourced' sources. They only list 4 under 16 countries and give same sex laws where applicable.
theTruth01 also railed on and on about Sudanis marrying --which he Eurocentrically dismissed as harem recruiting-- 16 yr olds in America while playing dumb to the true fact the majority of states (30 of them) in America list 16 as the legal age of consent.
Apparently for theTruth01 its fine for Americans to have sex w/16yr olds but epitome of evil for Sudanis go even further than that and actually legally marry 16 yr olds as sex before marriage is illegal in Sudan.
=-=-=
Why is all this? It's an obvious pattern. theTruth01 doesn't read what he doesn't want to hear --pro gay and anti-African-- and very similar to a paranoia sufferer hallucinates neutral observations into attacks.
quote:Originally posted by TheTruth01: Ok that African map/age list is disgusting, and I did not see those detailed ages in my map..
None the less, these laws are directed at heterosexual people, which highly promotes "pedophilia" throughout "Straight" Africa. That being said, please stop trying to allude to homosexuals as pedophiles. When we have nations that legally justify egregious underage sex strictly for heteros I do not want to here ANYTHING about any homosexuals having this proclivity.
ELEVEN YEAR OLD BABIES....are being fucking raped in Nigeria!!!
Your posts read like things I'd read on twitter lol. There aren't many places in the world where "underaged" children (male or female) aren't getting molested and or r*ped. What's with the sensationalism? (did you read the excerpt above your post btw??)
Also I think the topic is on homosexuality, I think we should reduce the discussions of statutory r*pe. [/QB]
Well some of you all the guy above named Zaharan are trying to created a lying narrative that "pedophillia" which would be defined as in the US is a problem that characterizes homosexuals. We see that this is simply not the case, especially in Africa where homosexuality is widely outlawed;
Can't imagine there being a big homosexual pedophile problem in nations where homosexuality is illegal.
Posts: 29 | From: Haberdashery, MS | Registered: Jul 2020
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
any genes that predispose people to homosexuality would rarely be passed on to future generations. Yet same-sex attraction is widespread in humans, array of genetic variations associated with same-sex behaviour would have eventually disappeared, unless it somehow helped people to survive or reproduce.
the array of genetic variations associated with same-sex behaviour would have eventually disappeared, unless it somehow helped people to survive or reproduce..
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