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Author Topic: Why is Biagamy accepted within Islam?
brian04
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This is a burning question for me. I hope some people can give me insight to this difficult question.

I am researching on how to convert to be a Muslim.

I believe thought the family is the core of a society.

So having more than one wife, would be unrighteous for the wife that you have and love with all your heart.

Would appreciate any views and opinions.
Salam,
Brian


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Brian, what you are going to do if you don't fall in love with a Muslim woman but with Coptic Christian woman?

Anyhow, I am really impressed about your drive to understand and your willingness to convert into a religion without even meeting your girl.


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EgyptianDoc77
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quote:
Originally posted by brian04:
This is a burning question for me. I hope some people can give me insight to this difficult question.

I am researching on how to convert to be a Muslim.

I believe thought the family is the core of a society.

So having more than one wife, would be unrighteous for the wife that you have and love with all your heart.

Would appreciate any views and opinions.
Salam,
Brian


Salam Brian

obviously an excellent question and by the way polygamy was not allowed in islam except under some cirucmstances and conditions. People tend to misunderstand it all and say 3,4 are accepted but ill give u some versus from the quran

allah said " marry of the women who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hand possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice. "
from this verse
it must be emphasised that the Qur'anic position is that – unless one is able to treat his wives with just equality – one must not consider taking more than one wife. In practice, this condition is most difficult to fulfil and so it must be understood that the general recommendation is towards monogamy. Also, polygamy, as the verse suggests, can only be justified under particular circumstances. In any case, there is no escaping the fact that a man has ultimately to justify all his actions before Allah, remembering that Allah knows what is in his heart. The following verse emphasises the fact that it would be extremely difficult to deal justly between more than one wife. If one does put himself in that situation, it is only right to insist that one should not ignore the first wife, but fulfil all the outward duties that are obligatory on him in respect of her.

a few verses later and in the same surah allah restates again "Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so)"

see so he said u can have more than one only if u can be fair and resays u will never be fair...so its sort of prohibition to polygamy to those who understand..

but the reason or justification was given only in some conditions, certain conditions where by life would be impossible to live with that wife

And it is no secret that polygamy of a sort is carried on in Europe and America. The difference is that while the Western man has no legal obligations to his second, third or fourth mistresses and their children, the Muslim husband has complete legal obligations towards his second, third or fourth wife and their children

iam not defending polygamy or favoring it.. Iam inshallah willing to have if god wills just one wife whome we may share all with eachother with harmony, love and respect but polygamy like u see is sort of prohibited except in conditions only..
islam never humiliated woemn, intrun gave them much of dignity, even there is versus or surahs of quran named " women" and not men and always a woman;s name was mentioned before a man in many versus; not as a way of not praising men; but in a way of showing how women are great and how women and are a wonderful dignified creation and how much care we all men get raised upon from these women and how much trouble we gave them in becoming adults and grown up potentially good memebers of our society..

its a lovely topic, and inshallah u wil learn more brian from the replies here

and may god bless us all

------------------
Dr.M.Lotfy
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ExptinCAI
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polygamy isn't new...it's been practiced in many cultures for many centuries. kings and emperors use to have thousands of wives while most poor men were celibate in the old days.

i think the answer to your question is your own limited perception of what a family is. your definition is one wife, one husband. that's not what others see as "family."


islam states (as far as I know) IF (and that's a big, big IF) a man can treat all his wives equally, he may marry up to 4 women at one time. But ONLY IF.

i suggest you read some books about the history of islam, as we're talking about a time when polygamy was the norm, women were property and had no rights and many men had more than 4 wives, often marrying widows for their inheritance/property.

anyway, these days you cannot marry a 2nd wife without the permission of the 1st wife...your first wife must agree or has the right to automatically divorce you.


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jaguar
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Mr Brian,EgyDoc& ExptinCAI.... Allah did not commence the Aya like this 'Marry of the women..............'. It goes like that and I am quoting the Quran and Arthur J. Arberry interpretation:
```(2)Give the orphans their property, and do not exchange the corrupt for the good;and devour not their property with your property; surely that is a great crime.(3)And if you fear that you will not act justly towards the orphans, marry such womenas seem good to you, two, three, four...........```
Please notice the following: Marring more than one woman is only allowed under the circumstances mentioned in the Sura i.e 1-A widow with orphans 2-Fearing injustice towards the orphans.
Please check Suret Alnesaa. V2 and V3.
That goes to prove that a Moslem is only allowed to marry more than one
WIDOWED woman and NOT just a Woman
Please re-read the Aya and my comment and correct me if/when I am wrong.Wallaho A3lam.


[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 22 March 2004).]


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akshar
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I think you phrased your original qquestion incorrectly by using a legal term in the West for an illegal marriage. It is not bigamy in Islam to marry more than one wife.

Speaking as a second wife I find the situation a loving and special one. I have not only gained a husband and father for my orphan child (yes I was a widow) but I have also gained a sister and step daughter. My daughter has gained another mother and sister. In fact everyone has gained. Nobody is hurt or deprived. We all work together for the benefit of the family and respect and care about each other.

I think our situation is a lot more honest open and respectable than many of the alternative relationships going on in the West.

This is why it is so important to be part of the family in Egypt because if my husband hurt either me or my co-wife my mother in law would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

Don't knock until you have tried it.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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katrina
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.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 23 May 2004).]


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newcomer
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quote:
Originally posted by EgyptianDoc77:

see so he said u can have more than one only if u can be fair and resays u will never be fair...so its sort of prohibition to polygamy to those who understand..

[/B]


EgyptianDoc77 if this is so does this mean that the Prophet and the Companions and the Followers didn’t really understand this verse? Was that why the Prophet never advised the Companions to divorce their wives when they had less than four and why he continued to give them advice on how to manage their multiple households and wives? Sorry for being a little facetious, but trying to imply that people now understand something about the religion that the Prophet and Companions didn’t seems a bit strange considering how much further we all are from the religion these days.

And jaguar, I’d use the same argument with you, you said: “That goes to prove that a Moslem is only allowed to marry more than one WIDOWED woman and NOT just a Woman Please re-read the Aya and my comment and correct me if/when I am wrong. Wallaho A3lam.”

Does this mean that the Prophet and the Companions were wrong when they married virgins and divorcees without children as polygynous wives?

The best explanation of the meaning of the Qur’an is the Qur’an itself and after that the example set by the Prophet and then the Companions, if they did something or did not discourage others from doing it, then that is a fairly good guide that it is permitted by Islam and we should be wary of putting limits on things that Allah and His Prophet didn’t.

And brian04, May Allah guide your research if you are genuinely interested in learning about Islam. We have actually discussed this subject several times on this forum, that last time not so long ago. It might be an idea to do a search under polygamy, or more accurately polygyny (having multiple wives) to see what was said previously.



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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Sorry for being straightforward. Perhaps your situation is unique enough, but if your husband loved and loves his first wife, why does he need to have a second wife? While you "gained" a husband, father to your daughter, and a "sister", what did the other woman gain? Another wife for her husband? How it is that he can treat you both "equally"? Sorry it is not intended to be offensive.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 March 2004).]


He married me because he loves me and I love him. Same reason as most people get married.

According to her she gained by having me as part of the family. She loves me very much and feels that I complete the family unit.

We both feel we are treated equally so he must be doing something right.

Please reread your post and see how judgemental you are being.

Why do you think the Western way is better. A man has 2 or 3 wives there but consequitively. The percentages of polygamous men in Egypt and divorced/remarried men in the West are about the same. In the process both women and children get hurt and abandoned. I don't put you on the spot to justify that behavour.

Here nobody is getting hurt, nobody loses and everyone is gaining. It might rock your belief system but there is no denying it works.

BTW I know other women in the same situation and it works for them to. With marriages ranging from 5 to 43 years. Yes 43 years as a second wife, I just heard from this lady very recently and she is totally happy and recommends it.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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katrina
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quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
He married me because he loves me and I love him. Same reason as most people get married.

According to her she gained by having me as part of the family. She loves me very much and feels that I complete the family unit.

We both feel we are treated equally so he must be doing something right.

Please reread your post and see how judgemental you are being.

Why do you think the Western way is better. A man has 2 or 3 wives there but consequitively. The percentages of polygamous men in Egypt and divorced/remarried men in the West are about the same. In the process both women and children get hurt and abandoned. I don't put you on the spot to justify that behavour.

Here nobody is getting hurt, nobody loses and everyone is gaining. It might rock your belief system but there is no denying it works.

BTW I know other women in the same situation and it works for them to. With marriages ranging from 5 to 43 years. Yes 43 years as a second wife, I just heard from this lady very recently and she is totally happy and recommends it.



I did not say having affairs in the West is good. In fact, I am totally against that and find very wrong. It was actually your comparison. I made no such statement.

I asked you if your husband loved and loves the first wife, why would he need another one? And what exactly would his first wife gain instead of being one of the wives while before she was the wife?

Also, I am not saying you do not love your husband, but it seems you gain more than anybody else there.

Another quick comment. You tend to advise many who may have problems on this board, to follow your path. Do you think it is a great idea? Actually, statswise, how common is such marriage as yours in Egypt? And a step further, out of the ones that actually take place, how many are successful with two wives cooking together?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 March 2004).]


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Raymon
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Akshar,

Even if it worked out fine with you ... being a second wife, and everybody is happy with it, your case will still be a unique exception.

------------------

Raymon www.youregypt.com


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EgyptianDoc77
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[EgyptianDoc77 if this is so does this mean that the Prophet and the Companions and the Followers didn’t really understand this verse? Was that why the Prophet never advised the Companions to divorce their wives when they had less than four and why he continued to give them advice on how to manage their multiple households and wives? Sorry for being a little facetious, but trying to imply that people now understand something about the religion that the Prophet and Companions didn’t seems a bit strange considering how much further we all are from the religion these days.

hi
thanks newcomer for the post but iam saying what allah versus said..I said its allowed under conditions ...u better mention the conditions coz u all are roaming around a point instead of saying who is eligible to take the step..

i didnt say its a matter of orphans only as exptcai said but new comer the prophet and companions conditions were different and u should better understand why salal allahu alayhi wasalam indulged in many marriages. do u know the erasons behind them??many were for the dawaa matter, dont forget that one of the reasons for aisha's marriage so young was to give him some one of a young age who could probably remember and easily narrate all his hadiths afterwards, it was allah orders, didnt he see it in a dream with sayedna jebril coming for him to marry her??? dont forget that sayeda aisha almost narrated all of prophets hadiths " majority" after his death due to her young age and capapbility to narrate afterwards.. u shall never compare that to that..So at time of companions it was a time of war and fotohat alislam during which many were orphaned and the count of women to men was at a greater ratio..Things are not just taken for granted..The quran is the source and basic refernce and prophets teaching complimentary no doubt, but still continue to debate. i love the issue..

barak allahu fikom all

thanks akshar and karina also for sharing ur experiences.. and brian u opened a great subject

------------------
Dr.M.Lotfy
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jaguar
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quote:
Originally posted by newcomer:

Does this mean that the Prophet and the Companions were wrong when they married virgins and divorcees without children as polygynous wives?

I am unable to answer that, as I am not certain of wheather the Sa7aba were committed to this catagory(virgins and divorcees). As for the Prophet, I remember I made a post claiming that We have no rights to be colliding with his deeds, referring to Moses killing an Egyptian. Again allaho A3lam.


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katrina
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.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 30 May 2004).]


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
I did not say having affairs in the West is good. In fact, I am totally against that and find very wrong. It was actually your comparison. I made no such statement.

I asked you if your husband loved and loves the first wife, why would he need another one? And what exactly would his first wife gain instead of being one of the wives while before she was the wife?

Also, I am not saying you do not love your husband, but it seems you gain more than anybody else there.


I did already reply

My husband needed me because he loved me.

She gains because I complete the family unit. That is what she told me I made the family perfect. Being one wife or being one of many makes no difference to her life at all. You are looking at it with Western eyes.

We all gain here, she feels she gains most, he feels he gains most and I feel I have gained most.

I know one relationship where the first wife suggested to the husband he marry the second wife.

You see instead of just 2 people being happy this happiness has extended to 3.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymon:
Akshar,

Even if it worked out fine with you ... being a second wife, and everybody is happy with it, your case will still be a unique exception.


No that is where you are so wrong there are loads of women like this. I personally know about 10 both in real life and on the net. It is much more common than you think but because of the abuse we get when we come out very few talk about it except to each other.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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katrina
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quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I did already reply

My husband needed me because he loved me.

She gains because I complete the family unit. That is what she told me I made the family perfect. Being one wife or being one of many makes no difference to her life at all. You are looking at it with Western eyes.

We all gain here, she feels she gains most, he feels he gains most and I feel I have gained most.

I know one relationship where the first wife suggested to the husband he marry the second wife.

You see instead of just 2 people being happy this happiness has extended to 3.


She gained family? Hmmmm.. She had the family before he married you, didn't she?


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
She gained family? Hmmmm.. She had the family before he married you, didn't she?


I guess you are not listening so I won't bother to explain anymore.

Try stepping out of the box and looking at it with different eyes.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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EgyptianDoc77
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 March 2004).]



hey
yes i was referring u, and experiences in matter of eagerness to debated the topic and state something.. by the way did u find out the mystery of the container


------------------
Dr.M.Lotfy
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katrina
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quote:
Originally posted by EgyptianDoc77:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by katrina:
[b]

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 March 2004).]



hey
yes i was referring u, and experiences in matter of eagerness to debated the topic and state something.. by the way did u find out the mystery of the container

I am losing sleep over it trying to figure out..


[/B][/QUOTE]


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I couldn't imagine to be a first, second wife of someone; not the way I was raised. Maybe my way of thinking would change if I would become a believer in the Islam.

My point is if Akshar is happy to be a second wife to someone and everyone else is agreeing and happy too than let them live their life together. By the way I hear it is very common in other Arab countries though not very often in Egypt.


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newcomer
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Assalamu alaykum EgyptianDoc77.

The only condition that I know of that was mentioned in the Qur'an regarding polygyny was in the verse that both you and jaguar mentioned, “…if you fear you shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one…” This justice was clarified in a hadith about the Prophet, peace be upon him, “The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, used to divide his time between his wives and he was fair,” and also by two of the Companions, ‘Ubaydah as-Salamaanee and Ibn ‘Abbas. They explained that the verse talking about not being able to do perfect justice between wives was referring to love and sex, and these are things that men are not in control of. They cannot make themselves love their wives with total equality or respond to them the same way sexually, any more than they can make themselves love all their children equally. However in the things that are in their control must be managed equally, like their time and their money, and Allah only judges men on the actions that they are in control of.

As to the other conditions that you are referring to, as far as I know there is no reference to them in either the Qur'an or the Hadith. No where have I ever seen in these texts any conditions laid down other than the above condition for taking another wife. I have never seen an original source text that limit polygyny to times of war, excess numbers of unmarried women, having a sterile wife, a husband having an excessive sex drive, or any of the other so called reasons/conditions that are commonly talked about as the “only” circumstances under which a man is allowed to take a second wife. If I have missed them, please give me the references and I will stand corrected.

Basically, polygyny has been allowed to Muslim men with a limitation of only four wives, if he can deal justly with them as regards his time and money, and if he can support them all as this is a right all Muslim women have on their husbands. That is of course unless any of the wives voluntarily relinquish their right to financial support or their share of his time.

Surah 33: 50-52 clearly show that the Prophet, peace be upon him was a special case in the number of wives that he had, and all other men were limited to a maximum of four, but this was the only factor related to his marriages that was unique to him. And of course the circumstances of his marriages were very varied, but in everything he did there was a lesson for us as Muslims, to learn what is allowed and what the limits are. That was the purpose of his mission. Although Aishah was an exceptional woman, we cannot use this fact to dismiss the fact that the factors surrounding her marriage were a lesson to Muslims for what is permissible, as were the factors of all of his marriages.


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jaguar
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quote:
Originally posted by EgyptianDoc77:
dont forget that one of the reasons for aisha's marriage so young was to give him some one of a young age who could probably remember and easily narrate all his hadiths afterwards, ........ dont forget that sayeda aisha almost narrated all of prophets hadiths " majority" after his death due to her young age and capapbility to narrate afterwards..


Mr.EgyDoc77.... Please Do Not Teffti..


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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Mr.EgyDoc77.... Please Do Not Teffti..

salamo 3alekom

he is right jaguare and 3amr khaled said the same in his program in ART. its not men aliftah en elwa7ed ye2ol 7a2i2a..

3amr khaled discussed all marriages last week in ART and he say the same egyptiandoc77 say..

balash takhbit men gher ma3refa
salamo 3alekom


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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Mr.EgyDoc77.... Please Do Not Teffti..

dah kan men el asbab elly alha 3amr khaled fi bernameg beta3oh fi ART we kanat Ekra2...
shokran doc77 3ala el ma3loma we sa7i7a meya fel meya..
barak allaho fikom gami3an walaho a3lam



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kawsar
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akshar, when u tell us all of u gain- ok, might be. but when u tell us, its common today...only becoz u know a couple of ppl like u...hmmmm, hard to believe, sorry:
wallah, i would if i could.

speaking as a second wife is always different than speaking as a first. u better believe that ur co-wife WAS really shocked and hurted from the beginning about his idea. but only becoz u are cooperating and only becoz she had no choose than to accept the situation as given- only becoz of this u succeed.

i dont wanna jugde about ur way of life neither his nor hers, and i can- but hardly- imagen that it can work.
but its much more common that both wives dont accept each other, at least for a long long time.
it IS hurting to the first one!


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SAFI
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HI EVERYONE, WITH REGARDS TO THE MATTER OF MORE THAN ONE WIFE..IT IS NOT BIGAMY OF COURSE IN THE MUSLIM RELIGION BUT NEITHER IS IT THE NORM FOR EVERY MAN TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE. A MAN NEEDS TO BE FAIRLY WEALTHY TO GIVE MANY WIVES THE SAME STANDARD OF LIVING ETC.ALSO IT'S COMMON PRACTISE HERE FOR A FATHER TO CHOSE WIVES FOR HIS SONS TO MARRY,AND VERY OFTEN THEY DO NOT EVEN MEET BEFORE THEIR WEDDING DAY! SO MANY MARRIAGES ARE LOVELESS..i.e.LOVE AS WE KNOW IT IN THE WEST ETC. COUPLES MARRY OUT OF DUTY TO THEIR PARENTS. ON A POSITIVE NOTE HOWEVER A MARRIED MAN CAN ALSO MARRY A WIDOW AND THEREFORE GIVE A HOME TO HER AND MAYBE HER CHILDREN. OTHERWISE SHE WOULD HAVE NO POSSIBILTY OF EVER REMARRYING. IT'S ALSO LEGAL HERE TO MARRY A FIRST COUSIN AND IN FACT IT'S THE NORM TO KEEP MARRYING INTO ONE'S OWN FAMILY. OBVIOUSLY THIS NOT GOOD FROM A HEALTH POINT OF VIEW BUT THE MAN IS ASSURED OF MARRYING A "GOOD WOMAN" !!!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE FAMILIES OF COURSE AND THERE SHOULD BE PROOF THAT THE BRIDE WAS A VIRGIN ON HER WEDDING NIGHT!
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jaguar
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Nesrine.. Amr Khaled?? Please ya Nesrine...
I don't go Amr Khaled, he is a TV star and quite amusing, but that's about all.
I'd rather go Omar Ben Khattab, who refused, YES, refused to quote the Prophet.

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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Nesrine.. Amr Khaled?? Please ya Nesrine...
I don't go Amr Khaled, he is a TV star and quite amusing, but that's about all.
I'd rather go Omar Ben Khattab, who refused, YES, refused to quote the Prophet.


jaguar. amr khaled alhom men kotob mogaza men el azahar el sharif, beyestatdel 3aleha ma3lomatoh men kotob 3elm we men regal din, ba3den baramgoh mogaza fi amaken ketira la2anoh dares..akid wa7ed law al 7aga ghalat kanet el nas we2fetloh..
jaguar balash begad el mogadla ketir we te2dar tes2al benafsak bas ana moktane3a belkalam dah, ba3den aan waldy ostaz shari3a we agaz el kalam dah

barak allah fik walaho a3lam



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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Nesrine.. Amr Khaled?? Please ya Nesrine...
I don't go Amr Khaled, he is a TV star and quite amusing, but that's about all.
I'd rather go Omar Ben Khattab, who refused, YES, refused to quote the Prophet.

kaman 3amr khaled gayeb kalamoh menen??
bos ya jaguar ya okhti aw akhi fellah,
ketab " zigat el nabey" lel sheikh el karadawy zaker nafs el sabab elly doc77 aloh...ya3ni e7na mesh fi khena2a we nesib el din lo2olo el3elm a7san, e7na benezkor we benatadawal asbab mazkora fe3lan

allahu a3lam


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NOxReducer
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Nesrine,
What you state in that message is exactly why I do not listen to anything Mr. Khaled has to say, becuase he never states any of his sources, and people just assume they are legitmate, and besides Amr Khaled has afta things that are complete and utter bogus....I was shocked last time I was in Cairo after having been away for about 2 years to see this Amr Khaledmania, for example girls at AUC worship the man, they put him up a pedestal too high, he is not worthy of all of that in my opinion...
quote:
Originally posted by Nesrine:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jaguar:
[b]Nesrine.. Amr Khaled?? Please ya Nesrine...
I don't go Amr Khaled, he is a TV star and quite amusing, but that's about all.
I'd rather go Omar Ben Khattab, who refused, YES, refused to quote the Prophet.


jaguar. amr khaled alhom men kotob mogaza men el azahar el sharif, beyestatdel 3aleha ma3lomatoh men kotob 3elm we men regal din, ba3den baramgoh mogaza fi amaken ketira la2anoh dares..akid wa7ed law al 7aga ghalat kanet el nas we2fetloh..
jaguar balash begad el mogadla ketir we te2dar tes2al benafsak bas ana moktane3a belkalam dah, ba3den aan waldy ostaz shari3a we agaz el kalam dah

barak allah fik walaho a3lam

[/B][/QUOTE]


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by kawsar:
akshar, when u tell us all of u gain- ok, might be. but when u tell us, its common today...only becoz u know a couple of ppl like u...hmmmm, hard to believe, sorry:
wallah, i would if i could.

speaking as a second wife is always different than speaking as a first. u better believe that ur co-wife WAS really shocked and hurted from the beginning about his idea. but only becoz u are cooperating and only becoz she had no choose than to accept the situation as given- only becoz of this u succeed.

i dont wanna jugde about ur way of life neither his nor hers, and i can- but hardly- imagen that it can work.
but its much more common that both wives dont accept each other, at least for a long long time.
it IS hurting to the first one!


I didn't say it was common I said I wasn't unique.

Why does everyone say I am a liar and my co wife is a liar because we say we are happy. You are all suddenly experts on polygamous marriages and you know everything about her and me.

Just because you can't handle it you doubt it can happen. That is your problem not mine.

Just accept we are all happy.

The original question on this thread was how can it be that a family unit survives another wife. I gave an example that it can. If you don't want to believe it that is an issue you have to come to terms with not me

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by NOxReducer:
Nesrine,
What you state in that message is exactly why I do not listen to anything Mr. Khaled has to say, becuase he never states any of his sources, and people just assume they are legitmate, and besides Amr Khaled has afta things that are complete and utter bogus....I was shocked last time I was in Cairo after having been away for about 2 years to see this Amr Khaledmania, for example girls at AUC worship the man, they put him up a pedestal too high, he is not worthy of all of that in my opinion...

7asha lellah, 7asha lellah, mat2olsh kedah , elly beye3mel keda yeb2a 7aram 3aleh, la2 ya akhi , ketir men 3olama2na agazo kalamoh, ba3den el7okm mesh benazret el nas lelshakhs bas, laken bekalamoh we dinoh, 7ash lelah..
law etfaragt 3ala barameg el zawag beta3toh hatla2ih al kol el sources...ba3den howa elly beyetkalem fel din wel wa3z khalas ba2a kohka, eder yegama3 7awaleh alaf el shoban welshabat elly kano kab kawsen aw adna men fasad...la el kalam yekon belmante2 law sama7to

e7na el mafrod adults


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NOxReducer
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Nesrine,
You are a good example of the Amr Khaled mania, you refuse to allow anyone to crticise him because you too put him up that high pedestal. I have watched his programmes and I find the man to have a really annoying voice for someone who preaches. Additionally, he never quotes his sources, I never know where that came from, and some of the things I've heard from him do not make any sense to me at least. It's so sad that the Amr Khaled phenonmena is encouraging people who listen to him to take the things he says for granted as opposed to question everything, research and learn for themselves. A sad state of affairs I must admit...


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jaguar
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quote:
Originally posted by Nesrine:
7asha lellah, 7asha lellah, mat2olsh kedah , elly beye3mel keda yeb2a 7aram 3aleh, la2 ya akhi

He could be a great lad.. but I wonder, how much money does he make daily?? Sure you will say RISK MIN 3AND RABENA... O NO... these guys, I am sure, are OK, but they abuse the desparation of the masses.. Remember during the Iraqi war, when the Jazeera lad was killed?? Did you see how Mr.Amr Khaled was weeping like Amina Rizk?? I thought to myself, WHAT A CREEP ! Please ya Ms Nesrine.. 7asha lel lah is a big word. You need to read more, far more..

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 24 March 2004).]

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 24 March 2004).]


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Nesrine
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
He could be great lad.. but I wonder, how much money does he make daily?? Sure you will say RISK MIN 3AND RABENA... O NO... these guys, I am sure they are OK, but they abuse the desperation of the masses.. remember during the Iraqi war, when the Gazeera lad was killed?? Did you see how Mr.Amr Khaled was weeping like Amina Rizk?? I thought to myself, WHAT A CREEP ! Please ya Ms Nesrine.. 7asha lel lah is a big word. You need to read more, far more..

mr jaguar, i dont know all, but look, u told some one mateftish,. tayeb hat el explanation el sa7 then?? wa7ed egtahad we gab ma3loma, et2aked mennaha abl mat2oloh balash tefti aw hgat el ma3olma e lsa7..ana 3ashan teb2a 3aref ba7adar majestaire fel fekh ya akhi wal7amdolilah.
el7aga el tanya ya akhi aw okhti, ana mesh 3arfa bezzabt, 3afwan, ennoh khateam el nabeyeen tazawag men 3a2esha rady allahu 3anha bamr men ellah wa ba3d ro2ya, we akid kan fih sabab. wel fokaha2 welmofasereen zakaro men elasbab ely zakaroh akhona abl keda 3an elelmama bela7adith we fe3lan aghlab ala7adith el nabaweya rawatha alsayeda 3a2esha...

dah mesh ra2y 3amr khaled, amr zayoh zay ay wa7ed beyestamed ma3lomatoh men el shari3a welsonna wala yada3 ta3alim gadida..

makhtalafnash bas elly ba2olholak enn el akh ellytkalam abl kedda mafatash. we maysa7ash kamasryeen aw muslimeen nekhateb ba3d belahget el motaham we mofti wel 3alem, ya3ni tarayas ya akhi aw okhti wa e2ti be3elm aw belfatwa elsa7i7a abl matatahem 7adan ghalat bel efta...


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Nesrine
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kaman jaguar ana mohandeset decor asasan we mesh rag3eya wala 7aga , we elhamdulilah bemashi2toh ba7adar majestaire fe 3elm el fekh wel tafsir..

tarayaso ya ekhwan fi omor el deen bezzat we ya ret balash neb2a na2er wen2ir ma3a ba3d , we fih mawada we eslob latif lel7ewar
gazakom ullah khairan


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katrina
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akshar

Regardless of all the happiness you describe which as you see we doubt very much even if your case is indeed a unique one....the question still remains, if your husband loves his first wife so much, why does he need to bring the second wife or you? He loves you, we do not need to be reminded of that, but how can he still love his first wife? Did she really have a choice or was she afraid of being dumped by her husband if she said no to his second marriage?

Also how would you feel if your husband brings a third wife to make it even "bigger" family so that you can be even more "happy"?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 24 March 2004).]

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 24 March 2004).]


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jaguar
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quote:
Originally posted by Nesrine:
zk?? I thought to myself, WHAT A CREEP ![QUOTE]Originally posted by jaguar:
[b]
we akid kan fih sabab. wel fokaha2 welmofasereen zakaro men elasbab ely zakaroh akhona abl keda 3an elelmama bela7adith we fe3lan aghlab ala7adith el nabaweya rawatha alsayeda 3a2esha...


Nesrine, The word MATEFTEESH isn't kelma ABEE7A, and think about it, who doesn't Yeftee these days.. very sad. The fact that you mentionwe akid kan fih sabab is totally inconceivable. We have to take things for what they are, and not NEFASSAL reasons. I will give you something to ponder... have you ever heard 3an Abou Bakr El Sedeek that the prophet said this or that?? Again, try to focus on Omar Ibn El Khattab regarding his reluctance to A7adeeth, and check this book: Bedaya wa Nehaya (Ibn Katheer) Page 107. I am sure your father has got it. With a good spirit, I ask you to read more,as I am trying to do just the same, and dare I ask you to read the old and the new testament? Nesrine, I am a HE.

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 24 March 2004).]


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Nesrine
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boss ya akhi

ana ba2olak akid kan fih sabab kano3 men el ta7fiz 3ala el kera2a. dah belfos7a besamaoh fan estedrag al kare2 ...mesh ennoh mafish

oltelak masdar " zigat el naby" ketab lelsheik youseef el karadawy, beyodaras fel azhar we mosadak 3aleh men alazhar al sharif we gam3et el malek 3ab el 3aziz we mogaz fi gami3 el belad...

a7ad tafisratoh welly estaktabha kanet nafs el asbab elly zakarha el akh mosabbakan

fih meet masdar lely zoker dah ya akhy..ana la atakalm fel deen e3tebatan..

la2a kelmet " mateftish" fiha 3angaha we estekhfaf we enta aslan bayent ennak mesh 3aref elsabab..famat2olshi kedda 3ashan 7atta matefkedshy mesdakeyetek fel 7aya wal fi ay makwef
TARAYAS.. kabl ana ta7kom

tesba7 3ala kher


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Nesrine
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tasharafna ya akhi we ahlan bik

aiwa 3andi el ketab we inshallah hakra2oh tani webelakhas habos 3ala 107 zay ma2olt..ana bas 3ayza a2ol. leh mates2alosh el akh el fadel masalan " men ayna laka alma3loma" badalan men " balash tefty"..afdal bvektir we esloob fih ma7aba we efeda we haykoon howa kaman mabsoot yegawbak badal mat2ol balash tefto...argo ennena nekon gami3an mostafedeen henna
salam we tesbah 3ala kher
tasharafna


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Nutso_Ordinary
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
akshar

if your husband loves his first wife so much, why does he need to bring the second wife or you?



Threesoms


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It’s nice to see such an active discussion but sadly some of us haven’t yet learned transliterated amiyyah and have been cut out of the discussion...although I know this board is about Egypt, it is an English medium board generally.

There are some scholars who use qiyas to suggest that the reason for the forbiddance of two people whispering in front of a third can also be applied to speaking in a language they don’t understand especially if the people using the second language know the first language, as the person who is left out might think that the other people were talking about them and couldn’t defend themselves.

Some of us non-Egyptians have actually heard of Amr Khaled and could perhaps add something useful to the discussion if we fully understood what it was about and it would also be informative for those who don’t know him to hear the debate. Can anyone summarize it for us???

And Katrina...I was going to keep out of this debate as akshar is quite capable of defending herself, but to be honest your constant doubting of everything she says to you is becoming repetitive. Could I suggest that you go and have a look round the internet to the many sites that discuss polygyny from all its different aspects and get a wider perspective on the issue? There are many sites out there that will help you in this.


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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
akshar

Regardless of all the happiness you describe which as you see we doubt very much even if your case is indeed a unique one....the question still remains, if your husband loves his first wife so much, why does he need to bring the second wife or you? He loves you, we do not need to be reminded of that, but how can he still love his first wife? Did she really have a choice or was she afraid of being dumped by her husband if she said no to his second marriage?

Also how would you feel if your husband brings a third wife to make it even "bigger" family so that you can be even more "happy"?


You are still bound by your Western perceptions that a man can only love one wife. Actually as we know from many adulterous reltionships where the man tries to hang on to both wife and mistress that men are perfectly capable of loving two women at the same time.

Think of King Edward, his Queen, Alexandria summoned Mrs Kepple to his death bed. There is you like was an example of British polygamy.

There are many other examples like this throughout history.

So having accepted that a man can love more than one woman you then have to resolve that need with a social solution that endures stability of the family. In Victorian times the wife turned a blind eye. This is no longer accpetable in the West so you have serial marriages with chidren being left aside as the man moves on to another love.

Islam acknowledges this need and allows the man to meet it but it puts on him heavy responsiblities. He had to make sure that all his wives are treated equally and fairly. I should think that a lot of men would like to do this but because the Prophet has made it conditional and they know they can't do it they don't.

It is a rare man that can do this. I have found that rare man.

If Mahmoud wanted to marry another wife of course I would have no problem with it because he would never ever do anything to hurt me, my daughter, my co-wife and my step daughter. So if he felt he could keep us all happy then I have enough respect for him to know that he would.

You keep on sniping at me about this and thinking I am unique. I am not unique I am just public about it. There are loads of women in this situation. You may not agree with me but at least have the courtsey to accept that what I say is true for me.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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lisane
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quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
akshar

Regardless of all the happiness you describe which as you see we doubt very much even if your case is indeed a unique one....the question still remains, if your husband loves his first wife so much, why does he need to bring the second wife or you? He loves you, we do not need to be reminded of that, but how can he still love his first wife? Did she really have a choice or was she afraid of being dumped by her husband if she said no to his second marriage?

Also how would you feel if your husband brings a third wife to make it even "bigger" family so that you can be even more "happy"?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 24 March 2004).]

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 24 March 2004).]


delete

[This message has been edited by lisane (edited 10 July 2004).]


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kat2
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quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I guess you are not listening so I won't bother to explain anymore.

Try stepping out of the box and looking at it with different eyes.

Akshar, you must be fed up with trying to put across your situation, i'm muslim and don't know how i would feel about another wife, however i can see where you are coming from and respect your views and am happy that everything has worked out well for you and your family.
Salaam
Kat2



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akshar
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quote:
Originally posted by kat2:
Akshar, you must be fed up with trying to put across your situation, i'm muslim and don't know how i would feel about another wife, however i can see where you are coming from and respect your views and am happy that everything has worked out well for you and your family.
Salaam
Kat2



Thank you for that.

------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor


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katrina
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.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 30 May 2004).]


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lisane
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by katrina:
[b] lisane, interesting.... "Sugar mama"? that is very "unique" and "original"

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 25 March 2004).]

delete

[This message has been edited by lisane (edited 10 July 2004).]


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katrina
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.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 30 May 2004).]


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