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Originally posted by shumza:
So what is the government doing about all of the American Muslims who practice polygamy? and the American Mormons in Utah who practice polygamy? and the American Christians who practice polygamy?

[This message has been edited by shumza (edited 11 April 2004).]

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Not sure about American muslims... Never heard of such practices in muslim communities in the US... but those who do poligamy and they are not necessarially muslims at all are not very seen around, they may live in some unincorporated areas, so it takes a while to uncover such by the police. Not sure what police do when they find a "harem" somewhere in the woods of Utah or Montana

Bring donuts and join?

And then we hear FOX news: "Nothing new in the world, but our top news of the day, in the state of Utah two policemen reported missing while on duty..." hehehehe kidding...

Have you ever lived in a muslim community? There are muslim communitites all over the States and believe me polygamy is practiced in these communities by american muslims, not in some backwoods and not hidden from view. I know a family of three wives. The husband has a PHD and teaches at a well known university in the South. I know many two wife families living in NY, NJ, PA, VA, CA.

Seriously, what do you think would happen if the police found out about a polygamous family?

There are communities around the world that practice polygamy with a new twist, in the open although not Muslims...surprise surprise...they are called the polyamourous communities, or polylove...

There you go, international polygamy for all...

SALATAH!!! (a term refering to a lot of everything that means a real salad)

To each their own and woow they are not Egyptians!!! I'm amazed!
Monica

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Originally posted by katrina:
Not sure about American muslims... Never heard of such practices in muslim communities in the US... but those who do poligamy and they are not necessarially muslims at all are not very seen around, they may live in some unincorporated areas, so it takes a while to uncover such by the police. Not sure what police do when they find a "harem" somewhere in the woods of Utah or Montana bring donuts and join?

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Originally posted by shumza:
Katrina,

Have you ever lived in a muslim community? There are muslim communitites all over the States and believe me polygamy is practiced in these communities by american muslims, not in some backwoods and not hidden from view. I know a family of three wives. The husband has a PHD and teaches at a well known university in the South. I know many two wife families living in NY, NJ, PA, VA, CA.

Seriously, what do you think would happen if the police found out about a polygamous family?

[This message has been edited by shumza (edited 11 April 2004).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by shumza:

Seriously, what do you think would happen if the police found out about a polygamous family?

[This message has been edited by shumza (edited 11 April 2004).]

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I do not know. actually I wanted to ask you that question. Since poligamy is illegal in the US, I wanted to ask you how it is possible to do it in open and in fact for such high profile people as you described. They can not really hide the fact, as you correctly pointed out... Would these people marry outside USA or here in USA?

P.S. in my other post, I was simply making a joke. Never intended to state a fact

...multiple relations in the open...

They don't look Egyptians, so maybe that's an asset to get away with...anything

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Originally posted by katrina:
I do not know. actually I wanted to ask you that question. Since poligamy is illegal in the US, I wanted to ask you how it is possible to do it in open and in fact for such high profile people as you described. They can not really hide the fact, as you correctly pointed out... Would these people marry outside USA or here in USA?

P.S. in my other post, I was simply making a joke. Never intended to state a fact

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Originally posted by Monica:

To each their own and woow they are not Egyptians!!! I'm amazed!
Monica

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 11 April 2004).]

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Polygamy is allowed in Islam because Allah said so. Whether you think there are stipulations to practicing polygamy, or polygamy is not for this time or not for you, or unfair or whatever. It is permissible for a Muslim man to have more than one wife because Allah said so in Sura Anisa, verse 4:

If ye fear that ye shall not
Be able to deal justly
With the orphans,
Marry women of your choice,
two, or three, or four;
But, if ye fear that ye shall not
Be able to dealjustly (with them),
Then only one, or (a captive)
That your right hands possess.
That will be more suitable,
To prevent you
From doing injustice.

- Verse 3, Sura 4 (Nissa / The Women)

So next question..... Who is Allah?

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I do not know. actually I wanted to ask you that question. Since poligamy is illegal in the US, I wanted to ask you how it is possible to do it in open and in fact for such high profile people as you described. They can not really hide the fact, as you correctly pointed out... Would these people marry outside USA or here in USA?

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what would happen if the police found out about a polygamous marriage? Nothing.

Do you remember the case of Tom Green the Utah Mormon polygamist, married to five wives, one was his stepdaughter, two were 12 and 13 at the time he married them. Mr. Green openly advocated polygamy. He appeared on Jerry NBC"S dateline and numerous talkshows including Jerry Springer(boo, hiss). He was convicted of child rape, bigamy, defrauding the government because his wives received gov. support...food stamps, welfare, health care etc. But it is my understanding that he is only serving time for the charge of defrauding the government not bigamy. His case was the first prosecuted bigamy case in Utah in 50 years!!

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010521-03.html

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
Men are created weak when it comes to women, and if they'd be allowed to marry only one woman, they'd always be longing for the forbidden, for another woman. Since it is allowed for them within the framework of Islam to marry again, they have the power to refuse this idea with nobility and honor, saying: I could if I wanted to, but alhamdulillah, one is enough for me. Does this make sense?

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No, this doesn't make sense to me at all. If God is perfect why should he create anything "weak"? (I am not being sarcastic here, this is my honest opinion.)

A certain percentage of people - men as well as women - always wanted and always will have sex outside marriage, but it's their personal "weakness" they have to deal with, and I don't think it's an exclusively male thing.

I'd rather assume it's a man-made argument in order to justify marrying more than one wife.

If I personally love a man, with all my heart and soul including sexual desire the mere thought of him walking off to sleep with another woman would be completely unacceptable.

Now I do believe Akshar or others when they say they are happy with this arrangement, but I'm really interested in knowing how exactly that works.

Islam does not allow poligamy it restricts it with one very obvious and clear condition: JUSTICE towards the wives. Breaking the promise and commitment to be faithful to me, is simply injustice stemming from betrayal, which in turn is assassination of character. If my husband takes another wife/woman, he may as well pull my heart out with a knife, slice it in pieces and feed it to the dogs...and I can garantee the dogs will die immediately, from the venom of my bleeding heart..............

A bedouin woman told me once, that when her husband took a second wife she felt like a TREE that was pulled out of its roots and left to DRY eternally!!!! That is harsh.

Seriously committed to my beliefs for life, and the afterlife...

Monica
________________________________________
Dreams come true........................

I do not imply that you are in for adultery (sorry if you got that wrong), the choice no. 1 (remember, to divorce wife no. 1 to be free for the other woman) would be the choice for many women, for sure. But still there are others, who can accept having a co-wife, and prefer an open, socially and religiously accepted arrangement with a co-wife, rather than beeing betrayed or divorced. It is only one option, that is neither emphazised nor recommended, and can be practiced or refused.

Also I apologize if you got the impression I was talking to you when I asked everybody to stop picking on Ashkar, I tried to reply to a number of people in one posting.

I think the Koran reference you asked for has been posted several times until now, also Monica has emphazised the main requirment already, which is Justice and fairness. The bottom line is, since a man will not be able to do real justice and be fair between wives, he better has very good reasons for a second marriage and only the best of intentions, because he'll be judged by Allah about it one day.

re. weakness, it is stated in the Koran, that man was created weak in Sura Al Nisa, the women 4:28

[4.28] Allah desires that He should make light your burdens, and man is created weak.

My Koran teacher told me at this verse, for men, their biggest weakness are women.

And yes, now my POV, not Koran citation, I think, that when it comes down to it, men are much more after sex than women. Where is the proof? that's why it is scarcely dressed young, beautiful women portrayed in all the commercials, beauty contests in swimming wear, pin-up calendars, female prostitution,... because sex sells - to men, that is.

There is a small movement of 'feminists' trying to promote men as sexual objects too, instead of stopping the portrayal of female sexual objects. Well it's a crazy world, and obviousely it does not work.

If a man (not all, but most) looks at an attractive half-naked woman, his phantasy and body are reacting different than a woman who sees even the most handsome man naked in front of her.

His thoughts go to imagine how that woman may look naked, how she smells, how her skin feels, how it would be to make love with her... while the woman thinks: that's a handsome guy.

I have thought and talked about this with lots of friends, and also men, and each of the girls says: well, me personally, I have no problem to just pass by that man, but for sure there are others out there whose sex drive will be just as strong as a mans'.

If all of you sit down in honest reflection - how many do you know, really?

for Dalia:
I hope I'll not spoil your day by telling you, that mankind being part of the creation of the perfect God, we are not perfect ourselves! God is also the Just, the Fair, the Loving, the Wise, the All-Knowing, the All-Forgiving.. all attributes of which we humans got only a small part of, obviously, while all of them belong to Allah, who created them.

ok see you guys later,

Jane, I applaud you for your openess and candor regarding this situation and sharing your personal life with us. I wonder if you wish now you had just remained silent? (kind of kidding and kind of serious

As a muslimah I accept that this practice is allowed, but I do have one question.

If a non muslim women "gets interested" in a married muslim man, is this right? Isn't it tantamount to ??? what is the word I am searching for....maybe "going after" another woman's man by western standards since this (seeking another wife)isn't allowed in any other religion today?? (forgive my lack of being able to express this more sensitivly)I ask this in sincerity and with all due respect.

Brian, you said you were researching reverting to Islam. Are you considering becoming muslim? Just curious.

Karin,

Judging from your answer you seem to imply that the only reason people have extramarital affairs or marry multiple partners is to satisfy sexual urges. I would argue that women have extramarital affairs, and MIGHT marry multiple partners if allowed, to satisfy other urges and needs that their partner neglect.

A woman will fantasize about a character in a movie or book or just a movie star in general because of unfullfilled needs such as kindness and understanding, the ability to listen and care, and other character traits that have NOTHING to do with sex. Why does sex have to be the only motivator for multiple marriages? If a woman doesn't get quality time with her husband, but a neighbor offers a listening ear when she needs it, or she sees a character in her favorite movie that does, wouldn't it be normal to become closer with the neighbor or fantasize about the star? Now men being men, perhaps she will share sex with him because she wants to or maybe in exchange for what he offers her.

I just think that your excuse that men are weaker than women, regarding sex, is not a good argument for allowing men to take on multiple wives and not women multiple husbands.

Now for the record, I agree that the NORMAL excuses for men taking on extra wives makes more sense, IE: women that have lost their husbands in war (I mean if the women are completely incapable of taking care of themselves, and no preparations were made by the husband or his country before he left for war to take care of his family), women that can't have children, etc.... but even with this second one, why isn't there any stipulation about men that can't produce children? Muslim men don't have the corner on being Manly Men and totally verile. Not that they would admit to any weakness such as impotence (although I believe the need or desire for Viagra in this country speaks for itself along those lines) or having a low sperm count, but I would bet my last bottom dollar on the fact that there have been Muslim men that couldn't produce a baby and perhaps his wife should have been given some alternative solution to that one.

What do you think?

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Originally posted by Laura:
This issue about multiple wives always seems to attract alot of attention.

Jane, I applaud you for your openess and candor regarding this situation and sharing your personal life with us. I wonder if you wish now you had just remained silent? (kind of kidding and kind of serious

As a muslimah I accept that this practice is allowed, but I do have one question.

If a non muslim women "gets interested" in a married muslim man, is this right? Isn't it tantamount to ??? what is the word I am searching for....maybe "going after" another woman's man by western standards since this (seeking another wife)isn't allowed in any other religion today?? (forgive my lack of being able to express this more sensitivly)I ask this in sincerity and with all due respect.
Laura

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Well I decide to come out because I wanted people to know I am not ashamed of the choices I have made. For us it was the perfect soloution and it may well be for other people. I know when I was making up my mind I really appreciated input from other women in this situation and I hope that my story likewise helps others.

I felt by not mentioning it. It made like I felt guilty about it and I most defiantely don't. Everyone that meets us knows about it so in a way it was bound to come out at some point anyway.

I didn't particualrly like the persnal attacks but hey I am a big girl now and if I can't handle a bit of abuse well........

As a Christian it was quite a thought to marry a non Christian. The Bible talks about not being yoked together with unbelievers. Certainly Muslims are believers so I felt Ok about it.

The Bible also mentions multiple marriages and says Christians should only have one husband/wife. Mahmoud isn't bound by that but I am and that is what I have done.

Of course I might have got it wrong and in the fullness of time I will find out.

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Originally posted by akshar:
He married me because he loves me and I love him. Same reason as most people get married.

According to her she gained by having me as part of the family. She loves me very much and feels that I complete the family unit.

We both feel we are treated equally so he must be doing something right.

Please reread your post and see how judgemental you are being.

Why do you think the Western way is better. A man has 2 or 3 wives there but consequitively. The percentages of polygamous men in Egypt and divorced/remarried men in the West are about the same. In the process both women and children get hurt and abandoned. I don't put you on the spot to justify that behavour.

Here nobody is getting hurt, nobody loses and everyone is gaining. It might rock your belief system but there is no denying it works.

BTW I know other women in the same situation and it works for them to. With marriages ranging from 5 to 43 years. Yes 43 years as a second wife, I just heard from this lady very recently and she is totally happy and recommends it.

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Originally posted by Undead:
Because of issues of geneology/lineage. One woman with four husbands is not likely to be able to know exactly who got her pregnant. So she is not likely to be able to say who the father is. Also, just as what is happening now that women are taking employment more and more often, why would a man enter into such a marriage? He is supposed to earn his own money, so why share it with other men who also share his wife? He could just get his own wife and support her. Men that don't want to work and also don't feel possesive probably wouldn't mind though :s

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It's interesting how people interpret religions.

Christians/according to the Bible, are not supposed to marry within another faith, as far as my knowledge goes.

So if a Christian woman is not very religious, it's fine. But the same person that is not very religious will make it a point that she is only taking one spouse as per her religion...but still marying within a different faith 'Islam'- which is not accepted by her religion- where the spouse is 'allowed to take more than one wife under one specific condition of being just with all wives' ...but is he just with all wives? who cares...as long as somewhere in some religion it says 'more than a wife' does not matter what the condition is and does not matter if that same husband who is so following the religion ( he is marrying more than one isn't he) also drinks alcohol maybe...but note, he does not get drunk and he probably prays but not when he has been drinking which is following his religion of course if he is a Muslim - just speculating here based on many stories -...... but that is ok because at this point the person marrying into another faith, is not very religious... and the Muslim marrying 2 wives or more doesn't mind not praying or drinking alcohol ~ maybe ~ because at this point, he is not really really religious...

Muslim men can marry within other faiths, and the children will be recognized as muslims, but the Christian wife, who does not have to convert to Islam if she does not want to, will not be able to baptize her children/if she has any, because their father is from another faith...but who cares since she is not very religious after all...and maybe will not have children anyway...

wooooooooooooooooooooow...this is getting to me!

My personal conclusion:
A very high percentage of people do what exactly they want/need/feel for sexual purposes, to have a kid, out of desperation, to runaway with a kid, for inheritance purposes, etc...who on earth knows... regardless of religion, and then justify their actions the way it suits them, sometimes through religion, sometimes through culture, black mailing, accusing etc...

If they can get away with it, good for them!

Always in good spirit, in respect to all religions and cultures, and different ways of interpreting religions and cultures, and different mentalities, and different nationalities and backgrounds, and different sects and in reference to non-religious people or/and religious people, because after all 'Vive la différence!'

Salam,
Monica

PS: If you live in Canada for example as a woman, you can marry someone the Civil way and then go to Egypt for example, and marry someone the Muslim way...as long as the Muslim husband in Egypt ~ for example ~ does not blow the whistle on you in Canada...and opens a can of worms...but then you can get away with it because it was an Orfi one and Canada will not recognize it...but in Egypt they do...depending on the colour of the paper, is it blue is it stamped by a lawyer is it a real lawyer ...etc...etc...there you go...anyone can do whatever they please...at the end of the day it depends on our principles, conscientiousness and morals.

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Originally posted by Jutta3:
Dear Akshar, I have just one question: I mean for me personally this would never be an alternative, and if you dont like to answer dont do, but I can not imagine how it feels, when you deeply love a man and you know for sure, that he is in bed with another woman and making love with her. This would drive me crazy. I mean, even here in Europe, if my husband would have an affair with another woman, he will find his suitcase in front of the door when he comes home. Did you never be jealous about his first wife?

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No it doesn't, don't ask me why but I never jealous of his other wife. His male friends yes. I would love him to spend half the time he spends with them with either me or my co-wife I don't even thingk about it.

There are boundaries which I feel you must never cross even in your mind (is she better than me!!!!!) It is hard at times but ultimately you are happier if you don't go there. Western equivalent asking about old girlfriends, What matters are you happy .

Monica regarding Christianity if you check your Bible it never actually says you have to marry a Christain. It actually says 'do not be yoked together with unbelievers'. A muslim is certainly not an unbeliever neither is a Jew.

...and in reality I don't think that people follow religion to the word when it comes to taking certain decisions...

But, I find all the different interpretations interesting, intriguing and sometimes really amazing!

1. True believers accept that Allah has perfected our religion for us (so says the Qur’an). To add anything or make changes (aka “modernize”) is seen as second guessing our creator. It says to him, “We don’t think Islam is perfect. We think it’s outdated and flawed and we think we can do a better job than you can.” No one who fears Allah would ever say anything like that with their actions or deeds.

2. Islam is for all people, at any time, in any place. We have to abide by the same rules no matter where we are, or what technology we have access to. Why should the rich Western woman be able to know who her "Baby’s Daddy" is while the impoverished woman in the Arabia is forced to guess?

3. As Undead said...what determines the lineage? One of the main reasons for certain Sharia laws have to do with preservation of lineage. Knowing who both parents are is very important in Islamic society. As for the DNA testing comments, please see reasons #1 and #2.

4. Unless they have a very valid reason mates are not allowed to withhold sex from each other in Islam. ‘Not feeling like it‘, is not a valid reason in Islam. Not be vulgar, but how would a woman be able to walk if she had four husbands?

5. Consider two things: One, each person in Islam has a right to have children. And two, women are the primary caretakers of children in Islam. So that means this poor woman would have to bear at LEAST one child for each man (since it’s his right to have his own offspring). And on top of that, it would be her duty to take care of them all. (Oh my!)

6. A woman is supposed to “guard what Allah has ordered them to guard”. Basically that means she has to maintain her husbands property, good name, wealth, etc. when he’s gone. So if a woman has two or more husbands and they go away, for who does she guard? Someone is going to have to get neglected. Think about how it was for women during WWII when their husbands were gone. Holding down the household was hard enough. Can you imagine having to do that when you have two husbands and households.

Even if you do polygamy properly, it’s still more work on the man’s part. And even then, I only see benefit in it for the women involved, not the man. But I can’t see ANY benefit for the woman to have more than one husband. I truly believe that the who feminist movement here in the West has gotten women to the point where they think that they have to be identical to men to be equal. I mean I’m all for the equal pay, equal opprtuniues for education, more money going to fund women’s sports. But sometime we have to admit that men work better in some things (like polygamy), and women work better in other things (like everything else! Teehee!).

Ma Salaama

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Originally posted by Monica:
Did'nt that mean the unbelievers of God and the Christian faith? ...if it was ok, why does'nt the church recognize a marriage between a Muslim and a Christian? Why do they insist that the kids be baptized...

...and in reality I don't think that people follow religion to the word when it comes to taking certain decisions...

But, I find all the different interpretations interesting, intriguing and sometimes really amazing!

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 13 April 2004).]

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Hi Monica, there is one mistake: you can baptize your children in protestant churchs and also some catholic churches do not have a problem with it. So a friend of me did. The point is always the personal statement. Why does the Islam insists on raising up the children as Moslems just because the father is a Moslem? It's the same like the christian church insists on raising them as christians. When I do not mention, that the father is a Moslem, I can have my children baptized as christians. But the Islam would never accept that. So there is intolerance on both sides which I never will understand.

If a Christian mother takes the child of a Muslim father and gets him baptized without the father consent it's illegal, religion -wise, that is...

Now, I'm sure it is possible to pretend that the father is unknown, and falsify papers, yes of course, and that is a fraud.. but we are looking here at the rules of religion, not at what people CAN do!

If a Christian woman does not reveal to the Church that the father of her children is Muslim then she is cheating and being a fraud. Would'nt you agree?

If you marry a Muslim there are certain sacrifices you have to make in regards with your religion. If you are not ready to make them, do not marry a Muslim unless he signs you a legal paper that he accepts that the children are raised Catholic.

Again at the end of the day it is a matter of morals wether someone tells the truth or not, in order to get the papers they need.

Have you discussed this fact with your husband, in regards with the religion of your future children?

Do you think that you will be able to raise them as Muslims?

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Originally posted by Jutta3:
Hi Monica, there is one mistake: you can baptize your children in protestant churchs and also some catholic churches do not have a problem with it. So a friend of me did. The point is always the personal statement. Why does the Islam insists on raising up the children as Moslems just because the father is a Moslem? It's the same like the christian church insists on raising them as christians. When I do not mention, that the father is a Moslem, I can have my children baptized as christians. But the Islam would never accept that. So there is intolerance on both sides which I never will understand.

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to Debbie: I agree with you, I was talking about sex being the main reason for an extra-marital affair for MEN, while women mostly are looking for something they miss in their relationship. I'm not searching for excuses for men, they have the permission to marry more than one woman from God in the Koran. I'm trying to explain from my own view, one point of why I think is allowed, in reply to the original topic.

There are of course much nobler reasons for taking on a second wife for a muslim man (examples the ones you mentioned and many others in their postings). I just wanted to add that those reasons, noble as they may be, are not imposing restrictions, they are just examples.

A woman married to a muslim man is also entitled to a fulfilling sexual relationship, it is her husbands responsibility to make her happy. If a man is impotent, his wife has the immediate right to divorce him, because of her rights to enjoy sex and have children - or she can stay with him. And alhamdulillah with new technologies it is possible many times to join the female egg with the husbands sperm by injection or in vitro (provided that the egg is from the wife, and the sperm her husbands, of course!) and thus the couple could still have children.

Lady Yuna and Undead have summed up already the most important reason why in Islam a woman could not marry more than one man at the same time.

A question for the followers of the Christian faith: who made up the belief that christian men always only have one wife? did you consider Abraham (as), who was had two wives (Sara and Haggar)?

Personally, The idea of a woman marrying more than one, gives me the creeps!

Same feeling when I think of a man going from one woman to the other, during the same week.

I guess it is the way we feel psychologically and/or physiologically, the way we are brought up, educated etc... that makes the difference.

If it is only a matter of sex for some, well maybe they can take the multiple spouses idea. I certainly can't understand multiple 'love' though.

Loving one man is intense enough, how can I even think of loving two?

And if my husband becomes 'impotent' the hell with sex then! Loving someone is not just words....we either stand by our man or we don't, regardless of sex! I expect him to stand by me too, that's for sure!

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
to Monica: as usual, right on the point and expressing some of my thoughts in much more eloquent way than I ever could

to Debbie: I agree with you, I was talking about sex being the main reason for an extra-marital affair for MEN, while women mostly are looking for something they miss in their relationship. I'm not searching for excuses for men, they have the permission to marry more than one woman from God in the Koran. I'm trying to explain from my own view, one point of why I think is allowed, in reply to the original topic.

There are of course much nobler reasons for taking on a second wife for a muslim man (examples the ones you mentioned and many others in their postings). I just wanted to add that those reasons, noble as they may be, are not imposing restrictions, they are just examples.

A woman married to a muslim man is also entitled to a fulfilling sexual relationship, it is her husbands responsibility to make her happy. If a man is impotent, his wife has the immediate right to divorce him, because of her rights to enjoy sex and have children - or she can stay with him. And alhamdulillah with new technologies it is possible many times to join the female egg with the husbands sperm by injection or in vitro (provided that the egg is from the wife, and the sperm her husbands, of course!) and thus the couple could still have children.

Lady Yuna and Undead have summed up already the most important reason why in Islam a woman could not marry more than one man at the same time.

A question for the followers of the Christian faith: who made up the belief that christian men always only have one wife? did you consider Abraham (as), who was had two wives (Sara and Haggar)?

salam, Karin

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Originally posted by Monica:
Thanks karin

Personally, The idea of a woman marrying more than one, gives me the creeps!

Same feeling when I think of a man going from one woman to the other, during the same week.

I guess it is the way we feel psychologically and/or physiologically, the way we are brought up, educated etc... that makes the difference.

If it is only a matter of sex for some, well maybe they can take the multiple spouses idea. I certainly can't understand multiple 'love' though.

Loving one man is intense enough, how can I even think of loving two?

And if my husband becomes 'impotent' the hell with sex then! Loving someone is not just words....we either stand by our man or we don't, regardless of sex! Reciprocity is a must too!

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 14 April 2004).]

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There is a verse in Surat el Nisa'a that expresses that.

Do you care to emphasize?

About a Muslim husband: when he loves his wife for REAL : he will not take another wife even if she is on her death bed! More reasons not to!!!!

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Originally posted by anuna:
Bigamy is not accepted in Islam. Muslim men think that it is because the Qur'an says they can have more than one wife... it is more than that... there are rules to taking more than one.
1. if your wife is on her death bed and can not perform her motherly and wifely duties you may take another wife but take care of the dying one as well.
2. if your wife refuses to be, well, a wife.. this happens sometimes because of arranged marriages... so the man is entitled to take another
3. if your wife is barren and you want children you may marry again- of course many of these require your first wife's permission to marry again and if she refuses the options are to divorce her and be responsible for her until she remarries... or do not get a second wife
Also, if you can not afford more than one you can not get another... you have to share everything between them including yoruself... if one wife has a house, a car and two kids, the other wives must have the same
this part of the religion came because in early Islam there were many wars and fighting... women at that time did not have the same freedoms that Islam over in that part of the world would eventually give them... so the men were responsible for the women who were alone after the fighting was over...the men still had to care for them.. back then the only legal way to do so was for them to marry the women so no other man could take and rape her, kill her and pillage her land that her and husband, father or brother or other male relative worked so very hard for.
This practice is still observed by some not so smart muslims today... the actual verses relating to this part of the Qur'an and the religion is meant as a history lesson... of course the world is populated quite well and there are muslims all over the world so this is not a problem and in most places women will not be pillaged and harmed if her male counter part does not come home alive from war.

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quote:

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Originally posted by katrina:
Not sure about American muslims... Never heard of such practices in muslim communities in the US... but those who do poligamy and they are not necessarially muslims at all are not very seen around, they may live in some unincorporated areas, so it takes a while to uncover such by the police. Not sure what police do when they find a "harem" somewhere in the woods of Utah or Montana

Bring donuts and join?

And then we hear FOX news: "Nothing new in the world, but our top news of the day, in the state of Utah two policemen reported missing while on duty..." hehehehe kidding...

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 11 April 2004).]

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When you accepted to become a second wife did your husband tell you that he will have to be with both of you equally in every way?

Do not rely on 'gypsies' please.

If your husband does not have relations with his wife and only with you is it 'fair' to her?
If your husband leaves his first wife if you have a son together, would that make you proud of him? would'nt that mean that he can leave you and go back to her?

Being a second wife is not easy in your case I guess! why did you accept may I ask?

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Originally posted by shamila:
I am my husbands second wife, we got married on the 27th fast last year and I am finding things really difficult. He has 3 children 1 was born 3 weeks ago and I'm really hurt because I know that he loves her too and that they have children together. For him I left my family luckly enough my sisters are still in contact with me. I read up about that a husband should treat both wives equally but I don't want him to have sex with her he can support her and the children but sexually I don't want anything happening with them. I pray to Allah everyday to help me cause I am really depressed. A gypsy approached my sister about 3 months back and she said to my sister tell me what you want to know and I can tell you. My sister asked her how is my sister(at that time we weren't in contact)she said to my sister that your sister is safe and the man she married loves her very much and that she is living in a house. Then she said to my sister that your sister will have a son and when she has the baby her husband will leave his first wife to be with your sister. Shall I believe this or not as Allah knows everything and how can I come to expecting the first wife.

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Originally posted by katrina:

lisane

I agree. Telling this story 100 times is one thing, it is educational to a degree, but suggesting becoming a second wife to others on this board every time they write about relationship their problems is something else...don't you think? saying this is normal, blablabla...

Thanks for pointing to the website. hmmm So how old do you think the guy is? I'd say if I did not know the story I would think he was her son. Interesting, for some reason the other "happy" Egyptian half or third to be exact(the first wife) is not one the website!

sure we look at this exactly from a western perspective....hehehehe

lisane, where are you from yourself?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 25 March 2004).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by shamila:
I am my husbands second wife, we got married on the 27th fast last year and I am finding things really difficult. He has 3 children 1 was born 3 weeks ago and I'm really hurt because I know that he loves her too and that they have children together. For him I left my family luckly enough my sisters are still in contact with me. I read up about that a husband should treat both wives equally but I don't want him to have sex with her he can support her and the children but sexually I don't want anything happening with them. I pray to Allah everyday to help me cause I am really depressed. A gypsy approached my sister about 3 months back and she said to my sister tell me what you want to know and I can tell you. My sister asked her how is my sister(at that time we weren't in contact)she said to my sister that your sister is safe and the man she married loves her very much and that she is living in a house. Then she said to my sister that your sister will have a son and when she has the baby her husband will leave his first wife to be with your sister. Shall I believe this or not as Allah knows everything and how can I come to expecting the first wife.

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He's family doesn't know about us and he thinks that when they do find out they will try and break us up but he says he will neva leave me.

I'm only 18 I just hope that I haven't made a mistake but I know he loves me a lot more than her cause he has told me.

He's family doesn't know about us and he thinks that when they do find out they will try and break us up but he says he will neva leave me.

I'm only 18 I just hope that I haven't made a mistake but I know he loves me a lot more than her cause he has told me.

Are u muslim?