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SFVL i apologise immensly for my misunderstanding of what you were trying to say. Your last message is a little clearer. I appreciate what you were saying about your wife and her being muslim and that is good for both you and her that you have the same beliefs and she is happy to live by the expected behaviour of a muslim woman. What i am trying to say is i am not a muslim woman and i will respect my husband in that i will not dress provocatively to attract the attention of other men, i do not drink acohol other than a very occasional bottle of beer and only the one but he tends to do the same, i am a loyal and faithful woman but that is not only out of respect to him that is out of respect to myself. But he must also respect that if he chooses to be with a christian woman he must accept some behaviours that are my way of having fun but harmless such as dancing with other men. However, when i say dancing i do not mean dancing close or even touching them just dancing. If he cannot accept this then i would suggest to him he finds himself a muslim woman. We have discussed this and i have told him if i believed in the teachings of the Quran i would convert but i would never convert to please him as that would be blasphemouse in my eyes. Needless to say i have not explored this so it is not even a consideration at the moment and i do not know whether it will be in the future.
Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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Tigerlily wasn't forced to go to a hotel but between the hard bed and the cockroaches didn't quite suit me. Nasr city is boring and dirty. I I like being closer to downtown cairo. My favorite hotel is the marriott. Very pretty, excellent restaurants and very comfortable. I am just spoiled with my lifesyle here in the U.S. is all. Egypt doesn't float my boat at all! I live in California, 10 minutes from the beach one hour north of santa barbara. They call it god's country here. It's the best!
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by bettyN: Tigerlily wasn't forced to go to a hotel but between the hard bed and the cockroaches didn't quite suit me.
Oh alright, so the apartment had flaws. And of course I know the Marriott very well. I used to be many times there for lunch and at Harry's Pub!!
And I fully understand your view. Cairo is not for everyone. You either love it or you hate it. But did you ever take a trip up to the beaches in Northern Egypt or Sinai? I am sure you would almost feel like back home. Take care! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by habeeby: SFVL i apologise immensly for my misunderstanding of what you were trying to say. Your last message is a little clearer. I appreciate what you were saying about your wife and her being muslim and that is good for both you and her that you have the same beliefs and she is happy to live by the expected behaviour of a muslim woman. What i am trying to say is i am not a muslim woman and i will respect my husband in that i will not dress provocatively to attract the attention of other men, i do not drink acohol other than a very occasional bottle of beer and only the one but he tends to do the same, i am a loyal and faithful woman but that is not only out of respect to him that is out of respect to myself. But he must also respect that if he chooses to be with a christian woman he must accept some behaviours that are my way of having fun but harmless such as dancing with other men. However, when i say dancing i do not mean dancing close or even touching them just dancing. If he cannot accept this then i would suggest to him he finds himself a muslim woman. We have discussed this and i have told him if i believed in the teachings of the Quran i would convert but i would never convert to please him as that would be blasphemouse in my eyes. Needless to say i have not explored this so it is not even a consideration at the moment and i do not know whether it will be in the future.
Habeeby you just don't get it, its not about your partner finding another a woman if he can't accept you dancing with other men. It is the other way round, if you want to dance with men then dont marry a muslim man. There are many areas that you will need to both find compromise in a cross cultural relationship but this is not one of them, if you can't understand how he feels to see you dancing with another man then you don't understand your man at all. If you want the love, respect and caring of an Egyptian man then start learning fast about the things that really matter to him. If you really love and understand him you could not do this to him. Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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ya know i have noticed they dont want u to do the same with their own family members ya can talk to his brother but nothin more y is that all women know family members are offlimitis well if she has the basic knolege of love and respect!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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^^^ He has the occasional beer - we're talking about a different type of Egyptian Muslim man altogether. Definitely not the type you want to get involved with IMO.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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learning what matters is difficult if you dont know the egyptian ways.....i learnt to cover up....tried not to be seen and not heard...OBEY. i was told once this is not the way and was expected to remember for all times....seems i did everything wrong all the time..yep for me it was hard to understand........but perhaps i had the wrong teacher.....or perhaps he just wanted control..........which he may not have got with an egyptian woman.......who knows.......i was down all the time to see him help etc but also wanted to go out.......we never went out as a couple always with men friends of his......think i was a liability...together 24hrs......and if he had to go somewhere he left me with a MAN friend of his alone either in the flat or coffee shop until he had finished....he always told me he could trust this man.any ideas
Posts: 171 | Registered: Nov 2007
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i thank god walid does not drink and he is very smart he takes care of his mom and brother very well so i know he would be a great provider so what if he is poor compaired to our usa standards he tries he doesnt give up
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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exactly tina kamal - I don't understand how women can reject men on the basis of their income.
If they are young and eager and have potential anything can happen. And it is character building not have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth...
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Yes Smuckers - one beer is one too many, so i dont think advices i give mean the same. the other things may not be able to be seen the same way. i do not think i am very strict myself, but i do follow these simple commands.like Penny said some things are not a choice for us - they just mean too much to break and choosing a muslim husband does not mean he will change for you Posts: 98 | From: Firmly On The Ground | Registered: Sep 2007
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Having a drink doesn't make anyone bad. Ok so Islam says its bad. I'm a Catholic, but do the occasional thing that I shouldn't - I still like to think of myself as generally a good person!
Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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I don't understand how people can justify themselves by saying that they don't drink alcohol and then they committ many moral sins - like backbiting, and slandering other people...oh but it is all ok, they will get into paradise because they didn't drink alcohol or eat pork.
How can that be more important?
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by soozi: Having a drink doesn't make anyone bad. Ok so Islam says its bad. I'm a Catholic, but do the occasional thing that I shouldn't - I still like to think of myself as generally a good person!
Soozi its not like that of course you are not bad because you drink alcohol in moderation. Its just for a Muslim they are following a code of conduct laid down in the Koran, and that prohibits alcohol for them. A Muslim's relationship with god is an integral part of their life and alcohol would interfer with that. It's not right for them but they are not saying it's not right for you. As a non Muslim maybe it's not right for me to explain but that's the way I understand it.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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it is bad when a man drinks everydang day yes the tend to get drunk and act a fool i would rather have a poor man then a drinkin man anyday i could survive better knowin im loved then not know if hes rich and treatin other women the same no never i have been with alcoholic mexicans most of my life and i do not drink yuck so y should i put myself in that situation the men who drink are more opt to abuse women or even kill them when they hit u and dont rember its the worst oooooooooooo im sorry i wont do it again what the f ever the next day same dang thing sorry dont cut it when im black and blue i will never let a man do that again
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Anthropos: I don't understand how people can justify themselves by saying that they don't drink alcohol and then they committ many moral sins - like backbiting, and slandering other people...oh but it is all ok, they will get into paradise because they didn't drink alcohol or eat pork.
How can that be more important?
You're not looking at it the right way, it's a cultural thing. Of course all people of all religous backgrounds do things that perhaps their religious beliefs tell them they shouldn't, but culturally for a muslim man in Egypt to drink alcohol isn't a good sign. IT's that simple and I wouldn't have known that until I have lived here a while. It's that simple. People need to start viewing these men from the viewpoint of the MANS culture and not from her own.
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i would love to live in a place where the women and men dont make drinkin the number 1 prority in their lives everyone i know are drinkers when they get drunk i feel left out but i still will not drink to be apart of the crowd thats just not me therefor i would rather disaccoiate myself from that and be online with walid lol
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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If some Egyptian man drank occasionally then I wouldn't necessarily think it a bad sign. I would even perhaps take it as a sign of being open minded and not being totally dictated by cultural norms and "gosh what will people think?"
It could be a strong sign of character
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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^^ Ok, well good luck with that. I'm talking about the man who claims to be a practicing believing Muslim man. There are many born Muslims who don't necessarily practice Islam the same as any other religion. I am insistient that a Muslim man in EGYPT who claims to practice his faith and believe in the words of the Qur'an who even takes the OCCASIONAL drink is shifty shady and will eventually cause someone heart ache...sorry JUST MY OPINION. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ^^ Ok, well good luck with that. I'm talking about the man who claims to be a practicing believing Muslim man. There are many born Muslims who don't necessarily practice Islam the same as any other religion. I am insistient that a Muslim man in EGYPT who claims to practice his faith and believe in the words of the Qur'an who even takes the OCCASIONAL drink is shifty shady and will eventually cause someone heart ache...sorry JUST MY OPINION.
with that yes smuckers i do agree with u
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Of course it would look very strange if a man who proclaims to be correct in his muslim ways would then drink - but the fact remains that nobody is correct in his ways, and what I am saying is that taking occasional drink is much less of a sin than many other sins that people committ, muslim or not, and yet they go unnoticed or untalked aobut, but everybody is fixated on a drink???
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by soozi: Having a drink doesn't make anyone bad. Ok so Islam says its bad. I'm a Catholic, but do the occasional thing that I shouldn't - I still like to think of myself as generally a good person!
Soozi its not like that of course you are not bad because you drink alcohol in moderation. Its just for a Muslim they are following a code of conduct laid down in the Koran, and that prohibits alcohol for them. A Muslim's relationship with god is an integral part of their life and alcohol would interfer with that. It's not right for them but they are not saying it's not right for you. As a non Muslim maybe it's not right for me to explain but that's the way I understand it.
I do understand what you say here, but if a Muslim man (or woman) decided that one day they were going to have a bottle of beer, that doesn't make them bad. It could make them not the best Muslim on the planet, but not a bad person. Having said that, Smuckers comment did make me view my opinion from a different perspective, how from a cultural view, it could be a bad sign about the character of the person.
Interesting isn't it, how a slightly different view of something, makes it look totally different! Posts: 836 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Soozi that's exactly right. It isn't the idea that messing up in religion makes you a BAD person, we're all human. But in Egypt it's beyond religion, it's a cultural norm that is broken and while I don't think everyone is perfect, the Muslim man in Egypt who comes from a good family and lives by the cultural standards he is used to wouldn't breech this idea of alcohol even OOPS by accident 'every now and then'.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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It is not necessarily a bad sign of the character. People are not robots, they don't follow their culture like it was a program installed in them. Culture is being constantly reproduced and renegotiated.
personally I don't drink alcohol, but I come from a country where it is considered normal to drink.
According to this cultural logics, me not drinking would be a bad sign of my character because it didn't coincied with the culture of the majority of my country?
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People coming from "traditional" countries are not more controlled by culture than people from any other countries.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ^^ Ok, well good luck with that. I'm talking about the man who claims to be a practicing believing Muslim man. There are many born Muslims who don't necessarily practice Islam the same as any other religion. I am insistient that a Muslim man in EGYPT who claims to practice his faith and believe in the words of the Qur'an who even takes the OCCASIONAL drink is shifty shady and will eventually cause someone heart ache...sorry JUST MY OPINION.
Shifty Shady- I like this alot smucks. This is my new phrase of the week! Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anthropos please I did not mean anyone is bad who is drinking and i hoped no one would think i was trying to make myself better than anyone. if people drink it is up to them.but alcohol is bad and can make us do stupid things. drinking is not for me.that is my choice but i dont mean i try to show i am better than anyone. what i mean is if a man thinks it is ok to drink, (they usually will never drink in ramadan which means there is a limit to what they will do) then that man is so strict about other things too. so any advices to Habeeby about dancing etc. may be no good to her because her man is not so culturally strict as some people and dancing, wearing bikini etc is not bad in his eyes. a man drinking a beer does not make him bad husband.
i never wish to insult anyone or back bite them as you think. this is not good to do. im sure i have done things wrong as all human people do. i am not strict either. i smoke! i wear funky european clothes & have great friends from all cultures and religions. i listen to music, i dont ban people who have been drinking from my house and we have 2 dogs and a cat inside - thats not strict!
i dont choose who goes to paradise and i dont think i have any better chance than anyone else, muslim christian or jew. we are all at Gods mercy for that one. the bible says man cannot be saved by his deeds alone. Habeeby sounds very happy and i hope she will continue to be happy and i hope nothing except her mans behaviour would make her choose the way to go. he deserves a chance to prove himself the same as anyone does. this man may be just everything she hopes him to be
Posts: 98 | From: Firmly On The Ground | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Anthropos: Poor man everyday than a drinking beating alcoholic who spends all his money on the booze.
Why such a drastic scenario?
Look f.e. to countries like Italy and France where a good glass of wine actually belongs to at least one meal a day. And it doesn't mean these people turn into alcoholics.
Now if Muslims drink alcohol it's up to them how sincere they are following the rules of the Koran. I know couple of Muslims which drink alcohol and they are wonderful people. If it doesn't bother them to drink alcohol why should it bother me? Live and let live.
Cheers!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ^^ Ok, well good luck with that. I'm talking about the man who claims to be a practicing believing Muslim man. There are many born Muslims who don't necessarily practice Islam the same as any other religion. I am insistient that a Muslim man in EGYPT who claims to practice his faith and believe in the words of the Qur'an who even takes the OCCASIONAL drink is shifty shady and will eventually cause someone heart ache...sorry JUST MY OPINION.
Shifty Shady- I like this alot smucks. This is my new phrase of the week!
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you are absolutely right tigerlily. I am 1/2 italian, my grandfather used to make wine. every sunday after church he would take us down to the wine cellar and poor 1 glass and let us kids share it. It's their culture, but he wasn''t a alcoholic. We wondered later on if he ever washed that glass! As for Egypt I have never been anywhere but Banha and Cairo. I am so tired from traveling I don't want to travel anywhere else when I am their. I come from California so it's such a long flight to Egypt. I need to experience some of the other areas definately. I get so nervous with the driving in cairo. It amazes me their is no road rage.
Posts: 1369 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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Oh mu god you lot i said 1 occasional bottle of beer and you make this man out to be an alcholic!!!! I have never seen him drunk ad if i did i would not be with him as i am not very keen on alcohol myself. As for a practicing muslim all i cn tell you is when it is Ramadam he prays, stops smoking and fasts. At other times he does not pray and is a smoker. I do not have any problem with the occasional bottle of beer and i mean very occasional my preference is not to be with a man who has beer breath and talks crap because he is intoxicated. He does live his life by some of the rules of the Qur'an and not ny others but surely this is individual choice not sin. I don't think it is anybody's place to judge someone it is only God who can judge and i don't think Mohammad will cast him out for drinking a bottle of beer and smoking. He is a good man who is kind and respectful to others isn't that what is important. You say that my dancing with other men makes him angry but i have discussed this with him and obviously if i was gyrating with complete strangers in a bar he would be very angry but then rightfully so. i only ever dance with the people that i know he trusts and who have an open minded way of thinking like him so that they do not misunderstand me. I do not gyrate or make physical contact with these men. Anyway how hypocritical some muslims can be have you seen some of these professional belly dancers in England we would call them pole dancers. They were the skimpiest of clothes and dance so suggestively isn't that a cultural thing????
Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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oh my god i am so angry that my last message was full of grammatical errors You have called this man shifty, shady and a thief because he drinks a beer, how narrow minded and judgmental. This is not a dictatorship, do you thin if people do not conform to your expectations it is ok to dis them? I would not like to be on a desert isand with you lot, lord of the flies springs to mind. Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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'battlefield' i am on the verge of full scale war!!!!! I do not mind the opinions in respect of certain behaviours but to refer to someone as shifty, shady and a thief - very strong words that are totally uncalled for Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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You are right Makbeta - i will count to 10 ! no i will count to 100 ! No 1000! No i will just rise above the narrow mindedness like the better person that i am Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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Honey, I don't think anybody here is narrow-minded - just the opposite. And everybody on ES has an inalienable right to express their opinion. Posts: 2807 | From: Europe | Registered: Nov 2007
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assal opinion is fine i do not have any probem with that in fact i find it interesting to hear other people's opinions but to call somebody a 'shifty, shady and a thief'!!! If we are going to discuss the understanding of other people's cultures well in my culture that is very offensive Yes it maybe fair to say that he is not a very good muslim and he does not pretend to be anything other that what he is - but he was born a muslim he did not choose this so if he makes the choice to walk with one foot on the path and one foot in the wilderness surely that does not make him shifty, shady and a thief Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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Habeeby please don't take everything so serious what's written here..... ES is a wacky forum you'll see!!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sorry Tigerlily - i was just so insulted ! But do i get 10 out of 10 for defending my habeeby to the death ha ha Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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Whats the 10 out of 10 for? defending your so sure you are not one of the suckers? (For that its certainly a 10 from 10 score). you defend him well. or for defending someone you hope to get to know properly one day? habeebi = anyone whose close to you, male or female - habibti = more close like darling/sweetheart.
so, the all the advice did not matter anyway? you already know he's maferig, emir aswad?
I bet so many people wish they had such certainty of knowing someone. I reckon Egyptian men know what conduct is expected of Egyptian men. To find one willing to give some true insight is rare.
Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by habeeby: Sorry Tigerlily - i was just so insulted ! But do i get 10 out of 10 for defending my habeeby to the death ha ha
Try reading the posts, nobody called him a thief, as for 'shifty shady' have you asked him yet if he is allowed to marry an Agnostic woman or does he stretch his Muslim principals on this one as well his consumption of Alcohol? Its a bit more of a serious issue though?
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by habeeby: Sorry Tigerlily - i was just so insulted ! But do i get 10 out of 10 for defending my habeeby to the death ha ha
Try reading the posts, nobody called him a thief, as for 'shifty shady' have you asked him yet if he is allowed to marry an Agnostic woman or does he stretch his Muslim principals on this one as well his consumption of Alcohol? Its a bit more of a serious issue though?
Very good point Penny on the marrying of an Agnostic woman.
Habeeby, Although I have been a member here for a number of years I don't post all that much as I am really busy and I don't have a lot of time to. Also, I am not one to judge anyone else as I feel that is not my place and only God's/Allah's place. You know your b/f, we don't, and as long as you stay objective you will know if there is a chance for this relationship to progress to a loving marriage.
I do feel though, that this is a very good question for you to discuss with your b/f. Even those Muslims that don't always follow their religion most always will only marry another muslim or Christian woman. Even though it is none of my business I for one am very curious as to how he would answer this question... Good luck..
Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Habibi, I have been married to an Egyptian for two years, never would I drink in public, dance with another man, even family or friends,nor sunbathe in public. Visas are very difficult to come by. Good luck
Posts: 66 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2006
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I am was christened a Christian, as i have gained more knowledge in respect of religion i have become an agnostic which as you are aware is not a non believer but a non practicing christian. Therefore all this means is that i do not go to church to worship god. I believe that he see's all that i do everyday and if i wish to speak to my God he will listen to me wherever i am so i do not go to church. I lead a good clean life and treat all people as i would wish them to treat me. Yes1 i have shared this with him and he does not have a problem with this.
Back Dahlia can you please translate maferig, emir aswad, i am an ignorant english woman Posts: 1797 | From: By my husband's side | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote: I am was christened a Christian, as i have gained more knowledge in respect of religion i have become an agnostic which as you are aware is not a non believer but a non practicing christian. Therefore all this means is that i do not go to church to worship god. I believe that he see's all that i do everyday and if i wish to speak to my God he will listen to me wherever i am so i do not go to church. I lead a good clean life and treat all people as i would wish them to treat me. Yes1 i have shared this with him and he does not have a problem with this.
The definition of Agnostic, as I understand it, is someone that does not 'know' or 'believe' that God exists.
There are different categories of Agnostics, those who don't 'think' God exists and don't care, those that have doubts but are ready to learn more, those that refuse to even discuss God at all etc..
In Islam, those who do not believe in God, are called the unbelievers, and Muslims are not supposed to marry unbelievers.
Thus, the fuss over how come a Muslim man has no problem with this.
Psychologically speaking, Muslims who pray occasionally, and maybe fast in Ramadan, apparently feel less guilty that way, for not practicing their religion on a daily basis.
On the other hand, those who only pray when they feel desperate, are a 'third' kind.. they only think of God when they are let down by everyone, or in need with no help from anyone, then they reach out to God.
But in your case habeeby, you seem to be a believer in God, but don't practice religion. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong, but I do not think that describes an Agnostic person. I think it describes an Atheist.
EDITED and ADDED the following:
On the other - other - hand here is something to confuse us more lol
Agnostic atheism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search
Agnostic atheism is a philosophical doctrine that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Atheism is generally defined as "do not believe in a theism" while agnosticism is usually defined as "an absence of knowledge (or any claim of knowledge)". An agnostic may identify as an atheist or a theist in certain circumstances (see Agnostic theism).
One of the earliest explanations of agnostic atheism is that of Robert Flint, in his Croall Lecture of 1887-1888 (published in 1903 under the title Agnosticism):
"The atheist may however be, and not unfrequently is, an agnostic. There is an agnostic atheism or atheistic agnosticism, and the combination of atheism with agnosticism which may be so named is not an uncommon one."[1]
"If a man has failed to find any good reason for believing that there is a God, it is perfectly natural and rational that he should not believe that there is a God; and if so, he is an atheist... if he goes farther, and, after an investigation into the nature and reach of human knowledge, ending in the conclusion that the existence of God is incapable of proof, cease to believe in it on the ground that he cannot know it to be true, he is an agnostic and also an atheist - an agnostic-atheist - an atheist because an agnostic... while, then, it is erroneous to identify agnosticism and atheism, it is equally erroneous so to separate them as if the one were exclusive of the other..."[2]
Individuals may identify as agnostic atheists based on their knowledge of the philosophical concepts of epistemology, theory of justification and Occam's razor.
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its not about your partner finding another a woman if he can't accept you dancing with other men. It is the other way round, if you want to dance with men then dont marry a muslim man.
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Habeeby, your last post looks like a battlefield!
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