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Originally posted by Maahes:
Sami Bouajila is not "mulatto". He is a Tunisian native-very classic features for a North African.

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Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Dammit, I thought this was a real movie being made...

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Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Wow, I'm stunned!!

Is this casting for real?!!

I knew they had Halle Berry and the other mixed-dude as Akhenaton but I didn't know about all the other characters!

This is perhaps the most accurate portrayal of Ancient Egypt by Hollywood ever made!!

The question is how will the mainstream public react to such a casting??

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Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Sundiata:
^^This would be epic, but there's still no information about it on imdb. Where did you receive your information from and when should we expect production to end, IF what you say is true..

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Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


You have to admit, whether or not the guy is light-skinned or not, he beats Yul Brynner or worse Charleton Heston! LOL

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Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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^ LOL "Tainted" is an understatement. Since European conceptions of 'race' began in the 1800s, African history has been distorted and warped into one big racist lie. Of course Western scholarship has come a long way since then, and alot of things have changed.

Science has shown 'race' does not truly exist but is a purely social and subjective concept. The reason why is that the very premise of race is that a population with a certain lineage will possess certain physical characterstics. Physical anthropology has debunked this notion and recently genetics has blown it out completely despite what some old throwbacks say.

Here is an anthropological primer:

Does the statue below depict "caucasian" features?

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Cranial features:
The human phenotypic trait that holds the greatest diversity is cranial
morphology. Because of this fact, cranial features can at times be
misleading if not taken into proper context. For example, for a long time
features like long narrow faces and narrow noses have been associated with
“caucasian” or “caucasoid” people even though such features are present in
populations throughout the globe from Africa to the Americas. The same can
be said about so-called “negroid” features such as broad faces and noses
which are also not just confined to Africans but various peoples in Asia,
the Pacific etc.

Which is why we have studies like this:

J. Edwards, A. Leathers, et al.
...based on Howell’s sampling Fordisc 2.0 authors state that "there are no
races, only populations," yet it is clear that Howell was intent on
providing known groups that would be distributed among the continental
"racial" groups.
We tested the accuracy and effectiveness of Fordisc 2.0 using twelve cranial
measurements from a homogeneous population from the X-Group period of
Sudanese Nubia (350CE-550CE). When the Fordisc program classified the adult
X-Group crania, only 51 (57.3%) of 89 individuals were classified within
groups from Africa. Others were placed in such diverse groups as
Polynesian (11.24%), European (7.86%), Japanese (4.49%), Native American
(3.37%), Peruvian (3.36%), Australian (1.12), Tasmanian (1.12%), and
Melanesian (1.12%). The implications of these findings suggest that
classifying populations, whether by geography or by "race", is not
morphologically or biologically accurate because of the wide variation even
in homogeneous populations.

And...

Forensic Misclassification of
Ancient Nubian Crania:
Implications for Assumptions
about Human Variation -April 2005, Current Anthropology:

It is well known that human biological variation is principally clinal
(i.e., structured as gradients) and not racial (i.e., structured as a small
number of fairly discrete
groups). We have shown that for a temporally and geographically homogeneous
East African population, the most widely used “racial”
program fails to identify the skeletal material accurately. The
assignment of skeletal racial origin is based principally upon stereotypical
features found most frequently in the most geographically distant
populations. While this is useful in some contexts (for example, sorting
skeletal material of largely West African ancestry
from skeletal material of largely Western European ancestry), it fails to
identify populations that originate elsewhere and misrepresents fundamental
patterns of human biological diversity.

These exact same mistakes were made in classifying Egyptian skulls and is
also the reason you hear these old studies speak of a percentage of
“Caucasoid” and even a percentage of “mongoloid” skulls!

Jean Hiernaux
The People of Africa(Peoples of the World Series) 1975
The oldest remains of Homo sapiens sapiens found in East Africa were
associated with an industry having similarities with the Capsian. It has
been called Upper Kenyan Capsian, although its derivation from the North
African Capsian is far from certain. At Gamble's Cave in Kenya, five human
skeletons were associated with a late phase of the industry, Upper Kenya
Capsian C, which contains pottery. A similar associationis presumed for a
skeleton found at Olduvai, which resembles those from Gamble's Cave. The
date of Upper Kenya Capsian C is not precisely known (an earlier phase from
Prospect Farm on Eburru Mountain close to Gamble's Cave has been dated to
about 8000 BC); but the presence of pottery indicates a rather later date,
perhaps around 400 BC. The skeletons are of very tall people. They had
long, narrow heads, and relatively long, narrow faces. The nose was of
medium width; and prognathism, when present, was restricted to the alveolar,
or tooth-bearing, region......all their features can be found in several
living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who
are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in a number of body
proportions.............
From the foregoing, it is tempting to locate the area of differentiation of
these people in the interior of East Africa. There is every reason to
believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'.
Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be
closely related to the populations of Europe and western Asia.

claims that Caucasoid peoples once lived in eastern Africa have been
shown to be wrong, - JO Vogel, Precolonial Africa.

So features like narrow faces and noses do NOT indicate foreign ancestry or
‘admixture’.

Fulani (West African)


Somali (East African)
[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40489000/jpg/_40489201_ghedi203ok_bbc
.jpg[/img]

Egyptian (North African)


Tutsi (Central African)


Ironically, another trait all of these people above share in common besides
facial features is skeletal structure of their bodies. Their body structure
has been called “super-negroid” indicating their extra-tropical

adapted bodies compared to stereotypical blacks of West Africa who only have
plain “negroid” builds. This is another indication that these people
definitely have NO non-African ancestry!

Also, just because someone happens to have the same features as those you
consider ‘true blacks (negroes)’ does not mean they are even African. As
seen by this Andamanese person below.

Southeast Asian


Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa 1975
p.53, 54

"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range
of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range
is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest
human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest
nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the
world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent
of the world range:

only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African
record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world
range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once
cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the
head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."

So all this talk of "races" and “mixed-races” because of certain looks is
downright silly...
And why there really are no 'races' because most of human diversity *comes
from Africans*.

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Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Also of relevance--- the famous African (Somali) Supermodel, Iman:



She was one of the first generation of high-profile black supermodels and although attitudes have changed since 1975, she insists that the fashion industry is inherently racist. Then, she was treated as some kind of exotic alien. 'Oh, you're so beautiful,' was one comment, 'you must be half-white.' Her reply? 'I don't have a drop of white blood in me. I'm beautiful because I am black and I am Somali.'

Note the similarities between Iman and the reconstruction of the mummy alleged to be Nefertiti:



Ironically enough, Iman even portrayed Nefertiti:

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Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Maahes:
I think many of you will appreciate the great attention to detail we have included in this project.

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Maahes:
The Egyptian army is made up of different battalions and troops of widely different ethnicities.

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The Fort Buhen Troops are of one dark brown ethnicity known as the Irthet. Other troops within the Egyptian army are Wawat, Dinka and Saite etc. Each division is made obvious by facial features, face paint, weaponry and regalia.

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We are obviously celebrating the great ethnic diversity of 18th dynasty Egypt- not reducing it to short-sighted Eurocentric notions.

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Afrocentricism is an appendange of Eurocentricsm.

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Most Egyptians continue to identify themselves by their religion, region, clan or tribal affinities. They do not really comprehend the western obsession with classifying people in tiny anectdated boxes. '

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This preconception with 'light-skinned' and 'dark-skinned' has a tendency to obscure the greater topics- the history of humanity
[…]
If one opens their minds to the naturalistic philosophies and artistic expression of the ancient people of the region and places value in the words and deeds of these peoples, the issue of colour vanishes altogether.

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From the great history of the ancients perhaps we will transform this guiless, materialistic and violent reality we live in today.

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
By the way, I'm not black or of African descent but I too notice the irreputable damage racism has done (especially to a few individuals who post in this forum with things like Afro-Iranians and Afro-Celts)!! LOL

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Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Maahes:

The first issue has to do with Egypt and history.
Early Egyptologists were from Europe. Many of the best known archeologists specializing on Egyptian history were Victorians. I don't think anyone would argue that Victorian society had a tendency to be both racist and chauvinistic. Subsequently, my history that is, Egyptian history as it was sysnthesized by this generation was tainted a bit.
Certain prejudices and presuppositional biases continue on to this day. But let us be candid.
Afrocentricism is an appendange of Eurocentricsm.
Both camps are mired in a world view that is only black and white. Europe is a small continent populated by a diversity of widely different ethnicities. Africa is a much larger continent with four times the diversity of ethnic morphotypes. There is more genetic diveristy within the continent of Africa- that is between different African populations than between any other gene groups scattered around the globe.

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You are correct. Although one might agree with Afrocentrism. Afrocentrism is a view that centers on Africa just as Eurocentrism is a view that centers on Europe. Would it not be better to apply Afrocentrism with regards to how Egypt is viewed since it is an African civilization? That said, you are however right that Afrocentrism was first created as a reaction to Eurocentrism. As such radical Afrocentrism is indeed nothing more than a reflection of radical Eurocentrism as exhibited in this forum by a couple of posters.

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This preconception with 'light-skinned' and 'dark-skinned' has a tendency to obscure the greater topics- the history of humanity - the roles of women and the great cooperation and artistic expression between widely divergent cultures -these were hallmarks of civilization.
They still are really. When people argue about the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians,they are generally not familiar with the racial makeup of Eastern Africa much less Northern Africa. The people that believe that the ancient Egyptians were obsessed with being white or black is false naturally. Most Egyptians continue to identify themselves by their religion, region, clan or tribal affinities. They do not really comprehend the western obsession with classifying people in tiny anectdated boxes.

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Of course, but then again that is the issue that plauges the study of Egypt no doubt because among the greatest civilizations of the ancient world it is one located in the African continent. And it is an issue sadly enough, we face all too often here in this forum!

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If one opens their minds to the naturalistic philosophies and artistic expression of the ancient people of the region and places value in the words and deeds of these peoples, the issue of colour vanishes altogether.

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I think many of you will appreciate the great attention to detail we have included in this project. The Egyptian army is made up of different battalions and troops of widely different ethnicities. The Fort Buhen Troops are of one dark brown ethnicity known as the Irthet. Other troops within the Egyptian army are Wawat, Dinka and Saite etc. Each division is made obvious by facial features, face paint, weaponry and regalia.

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We are obviously celebrating the great ethnic diversity of 18th dynasty Egypt- not reducing it to short-sighted Eurocentric notions.

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Secondly, another issue worth discussing is the lack of good work written specifically for actors of colour. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings trilogy very much. But it was pretty shocking how this maek believe world couldn't include a single dark-skinned extra. Even the hobbits were Western European- it is the sort of thing we come to expect from Hollywood. I think Daman Wayans said it best when he stated rather reasonably that the situation is dire. Even though everything is makebelieve the ariters and directors cant make believe that people of colour could be doctors or lawyers or people in a coffee shop for that matter. It is really obvious that the writers and directors have racial issues. If they didn't these people would be fairly represented. They/We are not. Thusly, I am greatly honoured to write and develop such an exciting project- one that enlists the contributions from many underutilized talents.

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Well what do you expect from the movie based on the fantasy of Tolkien (an old white guy) which is further based on Nordic mythology. LOL The only dark people or people of color in the movie were the human allies of Sauron who were Arab-like and what,.. the demonic Urukhai who are 'black-like'?!

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I specifically wrote parts for a few of my favorite actors that work very little. Women have a particularly difficult time in Hollywood. If an actor is over 40 and female they have a difficult time. If they are over 25 and of colour they are going to have an even more difficult time of it.

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Caucasian actresses pop up every year and garner covers and instant recognition fame. But great talents like Tantoo Cardinal and Cicely Tyson are overlooked all too often. Stacey Dash is another actor that know one seems to know what to do with as is Halle Berry. Halle can make mountains move because she is smart, dedicated and blessed with an almost supernatural beauty. But we can all readily appreciate how some of the projects she stars in don't really suit her. The reason?
Very few of these scripts are specifically written for women of colour.

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Lastly, one doesn't need to be a racist to write parts for women of colour to exclusion of Caucasian actresses. One simply has to open up their world view and create worlds where people of different ethnicites and races exist and evolve- that is we adapt to our challenges just like Caucasians do. The major difference is that we people of colour tend to have many more challenges than the average Caucasian might have. A good third of that challenge will be the willful ignorance of other people of colour that subconsiously feel a need to stifle the growth of those around them.

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We are entering a time in space when not utilizing your power will be viewed as criminal.
Have a good long look at the Ethiopian civilization and ask yourself why so little is known about it? So little is ever taught.
We allow people to make light of the plight of the
masses of starving people in Ethiopia. We refuse to acknowledge them in our thoughts and prayers.
When you see a child of Darfur or Somalia or Ethiopia an orphan that has lost her parents and siblings for no good reason at all- you may be inspired as I have to include them in your world view. These stories as I've written of them are
from and for the Old World. From the great history of the ancients perhaps we will transform this guiless, materialistic and violent reality we live in today.

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Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

Yes, I've heard! You never even hear about female actors of color over 40, unless it a 'black movie'!

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Caucasian actresses pop up every year and garner covers and instant recognition fame. But great talents like Tantoo Cardinal and Cicely Tyson are overlooked all too often. Stacey Dash is another actor that know one seems to know what to do with as is Halle Berry. Halle can make mountains move because she is smart, dedicated and blessed with an almost supernatural beauty. But we can all readily appreciate how some of the projects she stars in don't really suit her. The reason?
Very few of these scripts are specifically written for women of colour.

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So I guess this is where you come in. How unfortunate there aren't many others in the 'biz' who are like you.

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One of the most obviously racist things about Hollywood movies that nobody but perhaps blacks want to address is how come whenever a movie with a predominantly black cast is shown, it is viewed or even dismissed as a "black movie" as if it appeals to blacks only; yet practically all movies with predominantly white casts are viewed simply as movies for all?! It all stems from the usual racist view of racializing blacks and other people of color but not whites themselves, and yes the same is true with movies of predominantly Asian or hispanic casting. Perhaps the only movie I could think of that was an exception was 'Apocalypto', but notice how Mayan civilization was demonized and denigrated!

Face the long time fact: Hollywood is racist.

YOU may not be, but it's going be a long while before people like you can change the whole industry.

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Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SEEKING:
Halle Berry might have some problems with Hollywood.


http://www.spreadit.org/2007/10/23/halle-makes-berry-anti-semitic-nose-joke-on-jay-leno/

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Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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It's a quarter to eight time to get it straight.
I joked that if Iman played Nefertiti then
either Eddie Murphy or David Bowie would
be her Pharaoh.

It was Rasol who camped out on Billy Bob (what a name).

Anyway, it was all good fun, son! Thanks for the smiles.

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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
Maahes, also, please ignore my previous suggestion of Billy Bob Thornton as a possible actor, it's just that I thought it was funny that it was even suggested before( it was suggested by alTakruri on the Nile Valley Forum lol).

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Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

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Originally posted by SEEKING:
Halle Berry might have some problems with Hollywood.


http://www.spreadit.org/2007/10/23/halle-makes-berry-anti-semitic-nose-joke-on-jay-leno/

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I heard about that. But it was meant as a joke and she quickly apologized

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Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Are you saying he is a fraud. Or another Hawass!! Not black but African.

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Originally posted by SuWeDi:
Maahes aka Milad Sourial aka Khamsin write this in another forum:

-"As my own family is from Mut (Dahkla) and is somewhere between six and three thousand years old depending on what set of data is accepted- I have to personally take this matter up or bite my tongue.

We are not "black" but are indigenous north east Africans."

-"To my knowledge there was never a single Black ( as in Dinka, Fur or Nyala peoples of Niger, Sudan and Libya) King that ruled in Egypt.

Nor were there many Negroes ( Round Headed) even present in Dynastic Egypt until fairly late in history."

and also...

-"I am acknowledging the great people of Darfur who are truly BLACK."

-"...I am a Red African as have been all my ancestors including those that have been misidentified by well meaning "scholars" that mean to redefine the continent of Africa by invisible lines meant to support antequated theories of cultural imperialism and directional evolution."

-"Anyone who has eyes and has actually studied the human being in question's feaures will recognize the very characteristic attributes of specific East African races. Iman and Anwar Sadat come easily to mind."

-"In Europe and the USA the world is white and black or yellow, all the red people have been shoved into the sea. But we indigenous Egyptians still exist and we are neither black nor white nor anything in between. We cannot exist for no one has acknowledged that we ever existed."


He change his mind since?...hum...

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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Are you saying he is a fraud. Or another Hawass!! Not black but African.

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Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Are you saying he is a fraud. Or another Hawass!! Not black but African.

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Apparenlty so, and that he's BUSTED!!

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Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged |