Maahes I for one believe that anyone who claims Egypt as a purely black civilization is Afrocentric.
Sundiata really? and why is this?
Maahes Because blah blah blah da blah da da doodoodoo dee dee dee so on and so on
Sundiataok. but have you ever considerd that blah blah de da whoop dede doooo daaaah whoop de dooo day from south west asia blah blah bla blah native african blah blah features similar to eastern african blah SOY keita blah.
Maahesoh really? I never realized that blah blah you have a very reasonable blah perspective. I will consider your information thank you for your input.and for explaining this to me.
but thats not how it went this is what happen.
Maahes I for one believe that anyone who claims Egypt as a purely black civilization is Afro-
quote:Originally posted by Nefar: This is how things could of went:
Maahes I for one believe that anyone who claims Egypt as a purely black civilization is Afrocentric.
Sundiata really? and why is this?
Maahes Because blah blah blah da blah da da doodoodoo dee dee dee so on and so on
Sundiataok. but have you ever considerd that blah blah de da whoop dede doooo daaaah whoop de dooo day from south west asia blah blah bla blah native african blah blah features similar to eastern african blah SOY keita blah.
Maahesoh really? I never realized that blah blah you have a very reasonable blah perspective. I will consider your information thank you for your input.and for explaining this to me.
but thats not how it went this is what happen.
Maahes I for one believe that anyone who claims Egypt as a purely black civilization is Afro-
now does that seem reasonable? thats all im saying...
Hi Nefar. Your scenario is very reasonable aside from the end quotes of course. That isn't reasonable at all, but it doesn't come from a lack of trying on my part nor does it sum up anything I've stated.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The foundations of Dynastic Egyptian culture was laid out by the in situ social designs of the predynastic era and remained fairly conservative throughout much of its existence. Cultures do influence one another to some degree or another through conquest, immigration and trade; so, to make a point to that end, barring elaboration that takes it beyond, is like making a mole hill out of nothing.
It would be nice to learn more about the specificities that characterize the *massiveness* of the impact of the "chariot driving foreigns" - that is, how one quantifies this.
As for the Mittani influence on the 18th Dynasty, it is not odd for the advocate to be asked to elaborate on this, but rather, it would be odd if the advocate had no answer to this call. Afer all, one would think that the appeal to Mittani influence in the 18th Dynasty was to bring to the fore something of considerable significance, such that it must have modified the core-culture that provided a base for the 18th Dynasty in ways unprecedented and with such great magnitude.
I'll take this in three parts.
Firstly, in my opinion, the most influential factor that began at the end of the 12th Dynasty was ecological flux. The Canyon of Horns which once had permanent water in the form of a deep river dried up permanently. THe Western Desert underwent rapid dessication as well. But the grasslands of the Near East and Hindu Kush suffered badly as well. If we intuit that this ecological flux had to do with seismic disturbance/vulcanism in the Mediterranean which seems likely, we can envision the rise of the plate beneath the Western Sahara/ drop of the water table as a consequence. Whatever really happened is unknown but anyone with an imagination is struck with awe at the immensity of the natural cataclysm that destroyed Minoan civilization:
The exact dating of the final event, and it must be noted that there were several eruptions before the "big one", is still open to debate. Regardless, this had an enormous impact on the entire globe much less the local region. In the minds of many researchers, myself included, ecological flux enabled a virtual cultural invasion by Minoans, Libyans, Levantine "Asiatics" including but not limited to the ruling elite i.e., Chariot driving Bronze weapon yielding foriegners in Lower Egypt.
In a period of time when crops were scarce or non-existant, the significance of herd animals including Sheep and Goats ( "Asiatic") and Cattle cannot be over emphasized. Without these herds all of Lower Egypt may have starved to death.
No one is absolutely certain what was really going on but by the time of the Hyksos's arrival, large populations of Near Easterners from the Levant and up to Anatolia;and Minoans/Libyans were displaced from their territories, arriving in Egypt- 'the Land of the Gods'.
Now what happened next? I don't know that anyone can speak with great authority on the issue but obviously many have become very interested in the Tempest Stela. The author of the stela is the very same hereditary chief that finally put an end to Hyksos domination over Lower Egypt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Stele HYKSOS PHARAOH e.g. illegitamate foreign ruler that demanded everyone know him as the Per Aa- a physical place and presiding governmental body, not a single person-
Secondly, It is my understanding that the Hyksos period of Egypt was largely responsible for the birth of the 18th Dynasty... Please make use of the bibliography of the following link for more information.
The Hyksos were an important influence on Egyptian history, particularly at the beginning of the Second Intermediate Period. Most of what we know of the nature of the Hyksos depends upon written sources (of the Egyptians), such as the Rhind Papyrus. Also of considerable importance is the systematic excavation of their capital, Avaris (Tell el-Dab'a).
Aamu was the contemporary term used to distinguish the people of Avaris, the Hyksos capital in Egypt, from Egyptians. Egyptologists conventionally translate aamu as "asiatics" The Jewish historian, Josephus, in his Contra Apionem, claims that Manetho was the first to use the Greek term, Hyksos, incorrectly translated as "shepherd-kings". Contemporary Egyptians during the Hyksos invasion designated them as hikau khausut, which meant "rulers of foreign countries", a term that originally only referred to the ruling caste of the invaders. However, today the term Hyksos has come to refer to the whole of these people who ruled Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period of Egypt's ancient history, and had to be driven out of the land by the last ruler of the 17th Dynasty and the earliest ruler of Egypt's New Kingdom.
Josephus claims to quote directly from Manetho, who's original history is lost to us, when he describes the conquest and occupation of Egypt by the Hyksos:
"By main force they easily seized it without striking a blow; and having overpowered the rulers of the land, they hen burned our cities ruthlessly, razed to the ground the temples of gods...Finally, they appointed as king one of their number whose name was Salitis."
Some of this rings true, while other parts seem not to be. It appears that the Hyksos left much of Egypt alone. It is clear that Avaris (Tell el-Dab'a) was occupied by a people who exhibited specifically non-Egyptian cultural traits. We find this in the layout of the town itself, the houses, and particularly the burials, which were intermixed with the living community, unlike those of the Egyptians. While we know that the Hyksos established centers, as their influenced gradually moved towards Memphis along the eastern edge of the Delta, at Farasha, Tell el-Sahaba, Bubastis, Inshas and Tell el-Yahudiyas, very little of this particular culture has been found at other Egyptian sites. At the same time, the Hyksos living in Egypt have been described as "Peculiarly Egyptian". They were great builders and artisans. And little seems to have changed between the Egyptian style of governing, and that of the Hyksos. While the Hyksos imported some of their own gods, they also appear to have honored the Egyptian deities as well, such as Seth, who became assimilated with some Hyksos deities. Of course, we must also recall that Egypt already had somewhat of a history with the "Asiatics", including wars and considerable trade, so it would not be surprising to find some mix of cultures even among the Egyptians of the Delta.
The Hyksos were basically a Semitic people who were able to wrestle control of Egypt from the early Second Intermediate rulers of the 13th Dynasty, inaugurating the 15th Dynasty. Their names mostly come from the West Semitic languages, and earlier suggestions that some of these people were Hurrian or even Hittite have not been confirmed. However, it is not easy to determine their origins within that Asiatic region, and at Tell el-Dab'a, the culture of the people was not static, but rapidly developed new traits and discarded old ones. Yet the reason for, and method of the cultural mixing and rapid development of Asiatics at Tell el-Dab'a remains unclear.
One hypothesis is that the basic population of Egyptians allowed, from time to time, a new influx of settlers, first from the region of Lebanon and Syria, and subsequently from Palestine and Cyprus. The leaders of these people eventually married into the local Egyptian families, a theory that is somewhat supported by preliminary studies of human remains at Tell el-Dab'a. Indeed, parallels for the foreign traits of the Hyksos at Tell el-Dab'a have been found at southern Palestinian sites such as Tell el-Ajjul, at the Syrian site of Ebla and at Byblos in modern Labanon.
Hence, the Hyksos rule of Egypt was probably the climax of waves of Asiatic immigration and infiltration into the northeastern Delta of the Nile. This process was perhaps aided by the Egyptians themselves. For example, Amenemhat II records, in unmistakable language, a campaign by sea to the Lebanese coast that resulted in a list of booty comprising 1,554 Asiatics, and considering that Egypt's eastern border was fortified and probably patrolled by soldiers, it is difficult to understand how massive numbers of foreign people could have simply migrated into northern Egypt. These people migrated, or otherwise moved to the region from the 12th Dynasty onward, and by the 13th Dynasty, this migration became widespread.
The Hyksos did eventually utilize superior bronze weapons, chariots and composite bows to help them take control of Egypt, though in reality, the relative slowness of their advance southwards from the Delta seems to support the argument that the process was gradual and did not ultimately turn on the possession of overwhelming military superiority. Hence, by about 1720 BC, they had grown strong enough, at the expense of the Middle Kingdom kings, to gain control of Avaris in the northeastern Delta. This site eventually became the capital of the Hyksos kings, but within 50 years, they had also managed to take control of the important Egyptian city of Memphis.
Given this slow advance by the Hyksos rulers into southern Egypt, it seems reasonable to infer that the superior military technology of the Hyksos was but an adjunct to their exploitation of the political weakness of the late Middle Kingdom.
However, the Hyksos never really ruled Egypt completely. Their expansion southwards was eventually checked. In fact, at least early on, this may have been the result of a massive plague, for at Tell el-Dab'a we find mass graves with little attention to the burials. Though the ruler of Avaris claimed to be King of Upper and Lower Egypt, we know from a stelae dating to the 17th Dynasty king Kamose, that Hermopolis marked the Avaris' king's theoretical southern boundary, while Cusae, a little further south, was actually the specific boarder point. Yet Southern, or Upper Egypt was reduced to a vassaldom, probably as a result of the effectiveness, eventually, of the Hyksos military forces, at least until the reign of Kamose. Therefore, we do regard them as the legitimate rulers of the whole country during parts of the Second Intermediate Period, considered a chaotic time which the Hyksos at least partially helped to create in Egypt.
Eventually, the Hyksos tolerance of rival claimants to the land beginning in the 15th Dynasty would spell their expulsion by the end of the 17th Dynasty, beginning with the reign of Kamose. By now, the baleful experience of foreign rule had done much to shatter the traditional Egyptian mindset of superiority in both culture and the security of the Egyptian state in the face of external threats.
Yet, Egypt would eventually benefit considerably from their experience of foreign rule, and it has been suggested that the Hyksos rule of Egypt was far less damaging then later 18th Dynasty records would lead us to believe. It would make Egypt a stronger country, with a much more viable military. Because of Egypt's strength and ability to isolate herself from the outside world, cultural and technological growth was often stagnant. Until the Hyksos invasion, the history of Egypt and Asia were mostly isolated, while afterwards, they would be permanently entwined. The Hyksos brought more than weapons to Egypt. It was due to the Hyksos that the hump backed Zebu cattle made their appearance in Egypt. Also, we find new vegetable and fruit crops that were cultivated, along with improvements in pottery and linen arising from the introduction of improved potter's wheels and the vertical loom.
Perhaps one of the greatest contribution of the Hyksos was the preservation of famous Egyptian documents, both literary and scientific. During the reign of Apophis, the fifth king of the “Great Hyksos,” scribes were commissioned to recopy Egyptian texts so they would not be lost. One such text was the Edwin Smith Surgical Papyrus. This unique text, dating from about 3000 BC, gives a clear perspective of the human body as studied by the Egyptians, with details of specific clinical cases, examinations, and prognosis. The Westcar Papyrus preserved the only known version of an ancient Egyptian story that may have otherwise been lost. Other restored documents include the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, the most important mathematical exposition ever found in Egypt.
But it was the diffusion of innovations with more obvious military applications, such as bronze-working, which went far to compensate for the technological backwardness of Middle Kingdom Egypt, and it was these advantages that eventually allowed the kingdom at Thebes to gain back control of the Two Lands.
For the purposes of our film trilogy, the influence of Semitic/Indo-Aryan patriarchs within the Governmental Body/ Per Aa is wrapped up in the burgeoning religious elite cult of the House of Amen. This is not to say Amenism was a false philosophy, but rather, the corruption of self-interest within the clergy of the House of Amen was swiftly derailing centuries of Egyptian progress. Amenhotep III, once a great and innovative man, has fallen into the quagmire created by the kingmakers that chose him above anyone else to rule as soveriegn.
While the Hyksos were ghosts of the distant past to Amenhotep's generation, Assyrian, Mittanian and Hittite vassals could probably recall the so called Hyksos a bit clearer as they were very likely at least peripherally involved in founding various Near Eastern Dynasties. The Hyksos did not become extinct. They were reabsorbed by their homelands, some of which were much enriched by their sacking of Egypt.
Something of interest to any indigenous East African is the issue of matrilinear progression and hereditary chieftaness status of specific regions. When the Hyksos came, they did not bring their own women and like Indo-Aryan chariot drivers, the Hyksos practiced during war time at least- ethnic cleansing. They killed the hereditary chiefs and first born children and took the heiresses as their own wives in order that their sons would be born half-Hyksos. Many authors are of the opinion that the Hyksos were a benevolent presence in the region but I rather doubt the Egyptians felt this way about their new lords. As is attested by the campaigns of Ahmose and his predecesors - there was alot of enmity growing for the foreigners and they were expulsed from Egyptian territories.
Something of interest is that the Hyksos themselves did very little of their own administration. They had kingdoms to control back in the Levant. Indentured servant castes with Semetic sounding names (and remember Ethiopia and Yemen are the cradle and nursery of the first Semitic languages) were the administrators for the Hyksos " Pharaohs". This is very likely the reason that the Egyptians put up with the Hyksos presence for as long as they did. The Indentured servants with names like Yuya and Yey, Aye and Aperel, these were the men responsible for the granaries and even the treasury, the cattle herds and the horses not to mention the chariotry.
The Hyksos were allied with the Kingdoms of Kush- and hence had indentured servants from Ethiopia as well as Palestine. When the final eruption buried the world in a fifteen year virtual winter- the skies of the entire globe choked with ash and ice- all was reversed- the servants of the Hyksos, including Egyptian and Semite turned against their masters and pushed them east.
In other words, two of Egypt's oldest neighbors/ allies had representatives within the Per Aa of the Hyksos, they included Semite and Horn African members as is attested by their names.
These individuals and we might envision some interesting marriages, like that between Yuya and Tuja for example, that were the foundation of an inner-coup de etat against the Hyksos.
Regardless, after the Hyksos had been expulled many Semites or Asiatics with non-Egyptian names, remained behind and they joined the greater forces of the Ethiopian/Puntite/Upper Egyptian forces to subdue the Kush and expul the Hyksos.
I don't see the foreign influence of the Asiatics to be of any more import than that of the Horn Africans in Dynastic Egypt. The Hyksos to be seen in the third and final installment film- working title " The Civil Servant" begins at the beginning of the 18th Dynasty with Henry Simmons as Ahmose 1 who is at odds with Hyksos Pharaoh- and culminates with Horemheb played by Denzel Washington finally ascending beyond his humble origins to become king- only to lose it in a coup detat by his own surrogate sons within the Egyptian army...
Thirdly, I forgot in my digression- the third point is that the position of women within the Per Aa was obviously effected during the reign of the Hyksos and during the 18th Dynasty, women rose to great prominence but hardly that which was promised to them during Ahmose's day.
By the time Nefertiti came to power late in the dynasty, she like her enigmatic husband Akhenaten, were bringing old traditions back to the fore.
Akhenaten restored the purest form of Amenism back to Egypt- by denouncing the House of Amen and placing the Aten back into the view of the illiterate masses- basically saying as a good naturalistic philosopher might, that all the proof of consciousness (the God) that one needs to experience to know divine truth, is to watch the sun ( or moon) move across the sky, transforming the landscape as it passes- not a god in itself but a disc- a disc that projects the light of the god- that all creatures, inanimate rocks, trees and human beings acknowledge in their every waking moment whether they know it or not- this is amenism- the philosophy of becoming- hardly a new concept -but Akhenaten and Nefertiti brought this back from the confusing self-seriving agendas of the kng makers that destroyed Akhenaten's father.
In this story, the 'foreign' yet thoroughly Egyptianized ( centuries at least)let me preface that with this quickly-
in this story, Aanen, Aperel, Aye, these are descendants of high-ranking administrators- of Min and other pivotal Sepat territories that enjoyed the marriage between West ( Africa) and East ( Asia) . Being children of the Kap- for generations their true inter-relatedness is not important so much as it serves to bolster Egypt's influence and power with its vassal states- Mittani- Libya- Sudan, Somalia etc- these children of the Kap are placed into hereditary rule within the Per Aa ( Governmental Body) they are placed there to quantify the influence and power of the figure head and chieftaness. Ok
In this story, the 'foreign' yet thoroughly Egyptianized high ranking clergy members are basically fomenting - colluding to finally free themselves of centuries of Egyptian domination. In their minds they are doing the right thing. Their ethnicity makes it easy to comprehend how different their view points are.
I agree with observations that you haven't carefully examined the contexts of the point(s) and questions in my comment.
Most of us here already realize that trade, conquest and immigration play a role in bidirectional influence to some degree or another; it is something that characterizes just about *any* culture on this planet which isn't isolated. Nobody is denying that; so then what?
The 18th Dynasty pretty much ran along the same traditions set up by [time-wise] the first Dynasty polities. What have the Mittani done to alter this in extraordinary ways? Not even the Hyksos, the 'Libyans', Kushites, Persians and Greeks altered this social set up; in fact, they adopted it. The system stayed that way more or less until the decline of the Dynastic era.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I've skimmed over some of the posts in this thread and I'll just leave the following comment.
Some African Americans are beatdown and have low self-esteem which is why they are so emotional on this thread. They think of themselves as nothing other than the planet earth's one and only victim. These African Americans also like to place Africa and Africans in the same boat as them.
The white man has told them that they are nothing more than descendants of 4'5 pygmies who are mixed due to rape by Whites, Native Americans, and East Asians, and have no culture or history other than being slaves captured from the forrests of "the congo". Unfortunately they are not intelligent enough to resist white propaganda and falsehoods.
So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black" so they can get some semblance of a history or culture and have a temporary sense of fulfillment and selfworth.
Posts: 51 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by oadsnd_mf: I've skimmed over some of the posts in this thread and I'll just leave the following comment.
Some African Americans are beatdown and have low self-esteem which is why they are so emotional on this thread. They think of themselves as nothing other than the planet earth's one and only victim. These African Americans also like to place Africa and Africans in the same boat as them.
The white man has told them that they are nothing more than descendants of 4'5 pygmies who are mixed due to rape by Whites, Native Americans, and East Asians, and have no culture or history other than being slaves captured from the forrests of "the congo". Unfortunately they are not intelligent enough to resist white propaganda and falsehoods.
So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black" so they can get some semblance of a history or culture and have a temporary sense of fulfillment and selfworth.
And of course this all makes sense because blacks are not indigenous to the Nile Valley and were genetically ISOLATED OUT from the populations that formed dynastic Egypt. At least, this is what YOU would have us think. And because of this genetic, cultural and phenotypical ISOLATION of the ancient Egyptian population from the REST of Africa, blacks who make up the REST of the continent, should not consider it part of their history and culture....
Right. Another lame and retarded excuse for blatant distortion of African history, using the excuse that African slaves have no right to identify with anything outside of STRICTLY prescribed definitions of what is black and what is NOT black in Africa. Please spare us the nonsense.
This thread is not about blacks. It is about more general discussions of Egyptian culture. Suffice to say the premise that blacks were NOT part of the population of ancient dynastic Egypt from the very beginning has already been proven false in this thread. There is no need to discuss it further, as I doubt you have any evidence that would OMIT blacks from the ancient populations that inhabited the Nile Valley.
If you have a problem with that, then you can peruse the FACTS for yourself here:
quote:Originally posted by oadsnd_mf: I've skimmed over some of the posts
Then maybe you should try something that you obviously have a painfully hard time doing...which is READING. Your assessment is dangerously cliche, generalized, and over simplistic. You don't address any of the ideas in this thread, but rather zoom in on the self esteem of African Americans, when obviously if you'd actually have READ anything whatsoever, and not merely "SKIM" through a couple of posts, you'd notice that everyone here isn't African American, and the self-esteem/emotional issues seem to be attributable to Maahes, if not anybody else. You reinforce whatever it is you attribute to African Americans by repeating the nonsense over and over again with out taking into consideration that maybe, just maybe what these said AAs are promoting is based more on facts and available data than your braindead, political theories which would be convenient to anybody who is too intellectually lazy or simply too obtuse to take on the challenge of proving them wrong. You obviously fall into the category of intellectual laziness and your post obviously is babble with no thought behind it. Conservative B.S. nonsense which is more of a cop-out than an observation.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black" so they can get some semblance of a history or culture and have a temporary sense of fulfillment and selfworth.
I think you could of used a better example.
people like Marc washington and clyde winters are "the low-self esteem african americans who need to make up there own history in order to feel god about themselvs"
"So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black"
oadsnd_mf you tried to make a point and yet you yourself fell into "the white mans propaganda."
it is not wrong to believe that ancient egyptians were most likely...well "black". it is the very "white mans propaganda" that would have you believe that this is not "right". that somehow this is not "possible".
Posts: 229 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote: I think you could of used a better example.
people like Marc washington and clyde winters are "the low-self esteem african americans who need to make up there own history in order to feel god about themselvs"
"So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black"
oadsnd_mf you tried to make a point and yet you yourself fell into "the white mans propaganda."
it is not wrong to believe that ancient egyptians were most likely...well "black". it is the very "white mans propaganda" that would have you believe that this is not "right". that somehow this is not "possible".
I don't subscribe to the white boy's color game with regards to Africa. There's a reason why there are African Americans who do not use the "black" label with regards to themselves. "Black" is just another way to move the goal posts back, forth, right, and left in order to steal African history, culture, and people. Which is why most Africans outside of the pygmies are ferroted in and out of the "black race" at various occasions by Euros.
Now if the Ancient Egyptians called themselves "black" then that is what they called themselves. However AAs who use the term black as if it is some form of ethnicity should understand that they cannot go around telling other Africans to go by the brainwashing terms that Europeans have applied to them. Africans are the original people who have been around for 150k years and yet you have the so called "black americans" thinking that they have the right to tell Africans what they should call themselves.
From what I understand the bs "black american" term was born in the 1960's by the white news media. Probably in an attempt to obscure African American historical and cultural ties to Africa and its people in that decade. Wonder why?
Posts: 51 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by oadsnd_mf: [QB] Nefar wrote:
quote: I think you could of used a better example.
people like Marc washington and clyde winters are "the low-self esteem african americans who need to make up there own history in order to feel god about themselvs"
"So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black"
oadsnd_mf you tried to make a point and yet you yourself fell into "the white mans propaganda."
it is not wrong to believe that ancient egyptians were most likely...well "black". it is the very "white mans propaganda" that would have you believe that this is not "right". that somehow this is not "possible".
I don't subscribe to the white boy's color game with regards to Africa. There's a reason why there are African Americans who do not use the "black" label with regards to themselves.
If you're not African American, then I have no idea why you try and speak for them. The overwhelming majority willfully identify as Black, and those who do not either have their own personal reasons, or undoubtably just aren't black.
quote:"Black" is just another way to move the goal posts back, forth, right, and left in order to steal African history, culture, and people.
What do you know about Africa, and what is being stolen by referencing a kinship between the dark skinned peoples who inhabit that vast majority of the continent?
quote:Which is why most Africans out side of the pygmies are ferroted in and out of the "black" race at various times by Euros.
What is your obsession with Pygmies, and where'd you receive this information? In addition, why should it matter what Europeans impose on Africans?
quote:Now if the Ancient Egyptians called themselves "black" then that is what they called themselves.
They actually DID. "Kememou" in Mdu Ntr, means Black people. Though it goes without saying that whatever the case may have been, regardless they share cultural and biological affinities with more southernly populations who are identified and self-identify as black. I'm not into creating false dichotomies based on trivialities, unlike you.
quote:However AAs who use the term black as if it is some form of ethnicity should understand that they cannot go around telling other Africans to go by the brainwashing terms that Europeans have applied to them.
^^Written in the 9th Century by a "black" Arab of East African descent, named al-Jahiz.
Obviously you know very little about the term as Africans have labeled themselves as such before "Europe" was ever a geopolitical region, or developed collectively as "the west". In addition, why do you keep discussing African Americans, when many of the responses you are reading in this thread (assuming you've READ any), are not even from African Americans. Besides, that is a straw man as well, since no one defined the COLOR black along ethnic lines. Though to suggest that a dark complexioned African indigenous to the region is in no way affiliated with other dark skinned Africans, indigenous to the same region, is just nonsense.
quote:Africans are the original people who have been around for 150k years and yet you have the so called "black americans" thinking that they have the right to tell Africans what they should call themselves.
Africans can call themselves pink if they so choose. It doesn't give it merit, nor do BAs try and impose these concepts onto continental Africans whom choose to veer away from the term, even if they're darker than the said BA who uses the term. But on the same token, the word or term its self is well defined and African Americans themselves are African, so this is again another false dichotomy. When they label most Africans, they are labeling themselves with the distinctions consisting predominantly of cultural and language shifts.
quote:From what I understand the bs "black american" term was born in the 60's by the white news media.
You obviously don't understand much since the term has been around far longer and this is merely an embrace of the existing term, in order to limit use of terms like colored or Negro (which also means black!)
quote:Probably in an attempt to obscure their historical and cultural ties to Africa and its people in that decade. Wonder why?
American blacks didn't even remotely understand African concepts of identity in the 60s and were busy trying to establish their own. This is foolish. If anything though, this era (and the preceding) sparked and continued the Afrocentric and pan-African movements, so obviously you know very little about both African Americans, and African history. You've also veered away from your initial comments in order to make this reply seem more thought-provoking but you ultimately fell short once again.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ I agree with that. I was a bit hesitant in using the term "black".
Im not African American. im african myself. specifically from egypt. I would like to just use "african" but for some thats not specific enough.
from what i've read so far is that "black", for african Americans, is more of a unifying term
quote:"Black" is just another way to move the goal posts back, forth, right, and left in order to steal African history, culture, and people.
its to late we've already have terms like "black africa". and this was not created by african americans
Posts: 229 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Nefar: ^ whoa where did this come from?
Nowhere, lol! It is undeniable that Egyptsearch is a magnet for intellectually lazy trolls who make it a habit of using overtly foolish cop-outs. I'll take that as a W.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Nefar: from what i've read so far is that "black", for african Americans, is more of a unifying term
Partially, I'd tend to agree with that, though additionally, it's also an observation of what is generally perceived as "Black". People from Africa who resemble AAs themselves more than say, Europeans, are usually considered "Black". I have no problem dropping the term, only with emphasis on exclusion. The term "African" would suit me just fine if associated terms like "Black Africa" didn't apply. But they do, so....
quote:its to late we've already have terms like "black africa". and this was not created by african americans
^Ding, ding, ding! Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tee85: @you all arguing with Maahaes' alias.
Either that or it's Yonis2's alias.
Looks/sounds credible, because the individual came out of nowhere attacking AA, with the motivation/excuse being of just glossing over a few posts of an 11 pages thread.
Surely it has to be an active member under a different alias.
Posts: 391 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Hopefully I can make this my last post and give up my addiction to Egypt Search,
This is what I believe and I may be right or wrong. Don't try to change my mind. If we disagree, then we just diasgree.
Ancient Egypt was originally just a Black as Nubia. That's why they called themsleves the Blacks "Kemetiu". They met Semites and Pale Berbers along the way and mixed creating a dark brown/reddish average for the population.
The mixing was native Egyptian men with pale foreign women. That's why the women in may paintings were lighter. Because, they were foreign.
The Nubians showed their womenvery black with short kinky hair.
^ From Myra's site.
The AEs knew how to paint. The color scheme wasn't symbolic. They liked foreign women.
That's why the DNA results have a high % of E3b Y chromosomes and a much lower % of L1,L2,L3 mtDNAs. If all the invading armies of Egypt in the past 2,000 yrs was responsible alone for the mixed race condition of modern Egypt then, the L1,L2,L2 mtDnas in the study should have been high and the E3b Y chromosome low.
The AE men liked whitish Berber and Middle Eastern women. That's what happen in North African in general.
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Posts: 1115 | From: GOD Bless the USA | Registered: May 2006
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posted
^Geeze, Nefar. Have you private messaged him? If he's genuinely a screen writer who is working on an epic trilogy, then why'd you expect him to spend all of his time on Egypt search discussing a movie that he's already provided substantial information about? His last post wasn't even 24 hours ago.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian: Hopefully I can make this my last post and give up my addiction to Egypt Search,
This is what I believe and I may be right or wrong. Don't try to change my mind. If we disagree, then we just diasgree.
Ancient Egypt was originally just a Black as Nubia. That's why they called themsleves the Blacks "Kemetiu". They met Semites and Pale Berbers along the way and mixed creating a dark brown/reddish average for the population.
The mixing was native Egyptian men with pale foreign women. That's why the women in may paintings were lighter. Because, they were foreign.
The Nubians showed their womenvery black with short kinky hair.
^ From Myra's site.
The AEs knew how to paint. The color scheme wasn't symbolic. They liked foreign women.
That's why the DNA results have a high % of E3b Y chromosomes and a much lower % of L1,L2,L3 mtDNAs. If all the invading armies of Egypt in the past 2,000 yrs was responsible alone for the mixed race condition of modern Egypt then, the L1,L2,L2 mtDnas in the study should have been high and the E3b Y chromosome low.
The AE men liked whitish Berber and Middle Eastern women. That's what happen in North African in general.
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Why can't reddish brown be indigenous to the Nile Valley?
Posts: 290 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
^ It can and it IS. Apparently 'Christian' does not realize that black Africans naturally vary in complexion without admixture!
And this talk of Egyptian men or African men in general having a kind of 'fetish' for lighter skinned foreigners is as ridiculous as it disturbing that he projects modern day black Western (mostly American) social issues onto ancient Africans. Egyptian men married foreign women no more than Egyptian women married foreign men. There was no obsession or favor of light skin as there is today from the effects of white supremacy!! Ironically a Pharaoh's chief wife can only be native if their child is to be pharaoh.
Also, the premise that ancient Egyptians were not black is silly considering all the evidence we have from historical accounts, ethnology, physical anthropology, and genetics.
We even have artwork from the Egyptians themselves.
18th dynasty royals:
Ahmose I
Ahmose Nefertari
Amenhotep III
Tiye
Amenhotep IV (Akhenaton)
Tutankhamun
Hatshepsut
Thutmose III Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tee85: @you all arguing with Maahaes' alias.
Either that or it's Yonis2's alias.
Stupid donkey i never use aliases, i don't need to act as someone else so to say what i want to say. But if that's what you think then why not ask the admin to trace the iP, i live in sweden so lets see if mine is the same as the IP he compares the location of that persons.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tee85: @you all arguing with Maahaes' alias.
Either that or it's Yonis2's alias.
Stupid donkey i never use aliases, i don't need to act as someone else so to say what i want to say. But if that's what you think then why not ask the admin to trace the iP, i live in sweden so lets see if mine is the same as the IP he compares the location of that persons.
Go finish getting your ass HANDED to you by DougM in that other thread.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tee85: [Embarrassed] @you all arguing with Maahaes' alias. Either that or it's Yonis2's alias.
Just to prove my good will and I do want to be your Red African friend, I teach you some of our Indiginous Languages (Not Arabic stupid Bushy apologist)as it relates to the useful term
"IDIOT"
Iziut ( Siwi) meaning Donkey
derives from
eoou ( Copt meaning donkey) zaz ( Copt meaning Asphodel) xht ( Copt meaning Leading) translates roughly to:
"The Donkey is led by the Asphodel."
Do you feel my love yet?
I don't write under cover either.
quote:
quote:
quote:
Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
^Next time you call someone an idiot, a donkey, baboon or "stupid-head" Maahes, I'm reporting you to the Moderators. I'm not so sure that anyone here is looking to be your friend either, and according to the 9th century al-Jahiz, the early Copts weren't "Red Africans", so as one who apparently identifies as such, I'm not sure if it has ever dawned on you why is it that you speak that language while promoting your own quintessence. Thank you nonetheless for your maturity and awe inspiring tolerance.
Happy Thanksgiving! Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Here are a few of your insightfully offensive assertions. Each of these was made by you and you alone.
quote: you strike me as a hypocritical fraud
quote: Simply put then, since as a hypocrite, you deny the existence of race
quote:brainwashed, anti-African
you're a separatist
quote: Your subtlety only exposes your dishonesty
quote: Your "tribal elders" are full of you know what..
quote: Someone exposed you for the racialist mind-raped fraud that you are
quote:
It goes on and on. The moderator hasn't bothered to stuff a cork in your nastiness, I think you should just accept the honour of being described as a Baboon (ancestral spirit), an Iziut ( the sacred donkey that led Ausir to the Elysian fields, e.g. Egypt), an Asphodel ( flowers of the Elysian fields, that is a species of medicinal flower native to Egypt) and an ant lioness- (voracious insect with oversized jaws and endless appetite for worker ants).
Where you choose to see insult you miss an opportunity to learn something about the sense of humour of the Egyptian. If you pretend to know everything there is to be known is known than you miss an opportunity from an indigenous Egyptian. I am offering each and every one of you a window into the culture of our ancestors. Some of you deride and insult me. Sundiata has gone so far as to call me an Arabized nationalist- obviously ignorant to the fact that Arabic is not even our first language in the tribal lands, inspite of the fact that religious wars cost the indigine population most of its families... Willful ignorance, rudeness, cultural imperialistic- and just plain stubborn obtuse hard headedness-
If this is your way then so be it. I can't be bothered with you. There is so much to share with those that are actually interested in the FILM PROJECT.
Sundiata, a few times now you have suggested that everyone ignore me and this thread until I have something intellegent to say. I strongly suggest you follow this suggestion.
Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
While in overall comparison to other peoples of the world all those al~Jahiz lists are blacks (and I adhere to al~Jahiz's listing for who are the eastern hemisphere's blacks). But know that in Africa those blacks may use red, white, or even green to describe themselves perspective to others who exclusively use black.
For instance, even the blackest skinned Fulani is a red. Some blacks also call Fulani the white man of Africa. Doesn't bar Fulani from the ranks of the blacks and it sure in hell doesn't make Europeans out of them. It's just continental nomenclature noted since Africans left written records or outsiders began to record African's concepts of self.
I can't find it now but a forum member posted pictures and text about blacks and reds in her/his country (I think it was Nigeria).
[OFFTOPIC: maybe needs its own thread] And Thanksgiving? Really, other than a day off and an opportunity for family gathering, parade and ballgame watching, what is this Thanksgiving for those from Turtle Island or from Africa, who those originating the holiday did so only as a commemoration for their successful colonization of Turtle Island and enslavement of Africans?
But it'd be ill-mannered of me not to return wishes for happiness regardless of whatever prompts them.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Nefar: ^ I am a little confused
where is Maahes? Maahes please come back and tell us more about the movie.
I would love to Nefar, Shokran
It is frustrating to have been working on a project for so many years and have to sit out the strike. In other words, while we completed the writing some time ago, there is a strike going on at the moment. No film production that cannot be completed by the next strike ( directors and actors guilds) begins... hence my down time and the suggestion by others to visit here and share something about the film story with all of you.
Im going to try a new approach here.
What do any of you know about the cult of dream readers and dream inducement in the New Kingdom?
Dream inducement provides the background of all three stories. Special dream reading priests are in the process of brain washing Egyptians into believing the end is near...
Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- The seed cannot sprout upwards without simultaneously sending roots into the ground. Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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For instance, even the blackest skinned Fulani is a red. Some blacks also call Fulani the white man of Africa. Doesn't bar Fulani from the ranks of the blacks and it sure in hell doesn't make Europeans out of them. It's just continental nomenclature noted since Africans left written records or outsiders began to record African's concepts of self.
^Yes.
quote:Originally posted by Maahes:
quote:Originally posted by Tee85: [Embarrassed] @you all arguing with Maahaes' alias. Either that or it's Yonis2's alias.
No.
Reasonable conjecture was made by 2 a Tee.
quote:Originally posted by Tee85:
quote:Originally posted by Maahes:
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: This Maahes guy is completely irrational. He talks nothing but nonsense.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid that this does in fact seem to be the case..
posted
^ What is the pic of a firey, fire breathing donkey suppose to mean?-- A jackass on fire??
I take it that describes oadsnd_mf. LOL
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: While in overall comparison to other peoples of the world all those al~Jahiz lists are blacks (and I adhere to al~Jahiz's listing for who are the eastern hemisphere's blacks). But know that in Africa those blacks may use red, white, or even green to describe themselves perspective to others who exclusively use black.
For instance, even the blackest skinned Fulani is a red. Some blacks also call Fulani the white man of Africa. Doesn't bar Fulani from the ranks of the blacks and it sure in hell doesn't make Europeans out of them. It's just continental nomenclature noted since Africans left written records or outsiders began to record African's concepts of self.
I can't find it now but a forum member posted pictures and text about blacks and reds in her/his country (I think it was Nigeria).
[OFFTOPIC: maybe needs its own thread] And Thanksgiving? Really, other than a day off and an opportunity for family gathering, parade and ballgame watching, what is this Thanksgiving for those from Turtle Island or from Africa, who those originating the holiday did so only as a commemoration for their successful colonization of Turtle Island and enslavement of Africans?
But it'd be ill-mannered of me not to return wishes for happiness regardless of whatever prompts them.
Perhaps this explains Maahes and his "red rock" and "black rock" stuff. Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The peoples of Egypt/Sudan took their name from the great potter himself.
Amentet
Who is it that comes from the west?
The Western Desert is the ancestral home of at least three ethnic groups including the predynastic tribal clans- Addax, Nyala and Audad. The now arid Western Desert was once very different ecologically speaking. As in other regions within the enormous African Continent- tropical savannah tends to wane and ebb over millenia. This leaves mosiacs of Aciacia scrublands surrounded by ever shifting desert habitats. When the water table beneath the Western Desert fell dramatically the region was less hospitable for human life. The indigenous populations were obliged to migrate elsewhere. Some of the peoples were nomadic and visited seasonally. Others were more or less permanent inhabitants before the great aridification period that occured ~ 5000 years ago.
At some point in time and probably more than once- mass migrations of Red Desert and also Black desert denizens arrived in Kem.t -the land of Khnum.
The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black). These four cultures all contributed something lasting in dynastic Egypt. It should be clear however that the Oryx were the indigenous tribal clan when the first dynasties emerged.
This concept of the origins of peoples has to do with their respective languages, costumes and geographic originations. These ideas are as old as the concept of Khenemu.
The peoples of Egypt/Sudan took their name from the great potter himself.
Amentet
Who is it that comes from the west?
The Western Desert is the ancestral home of at least three ethnic groups including the predynastic tribal clans- Addax, Nyala and Audad. The now arid Western Desert was once very different ecologically speaking. As in other regions within the enormous African Continent- tropical savannah tends to wane and ebb over millenia. This leaves mosiacs of Aciacia scrublands surrounded by ever shifting desert habitats. When the water table beneath the Western Desert fell dramatically the region was less hospitable for human life. The indigenous populations were obliged to migrate elsewhere. Some of the peoples were nomadic and visited seasonally. Others were more or less permanent inhabitants before the great aridification period that occured ~ 5000 years ago.
At some point in time and probably more than once- mass migrations of Red Desert and also Black desert denizens arrived in Kem.t -the land of Khnum.
The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black). These four cultures all contributed something lasting in dynastic Egypt. It should be clear however that the Oryx were the indigenous tribal clan when the first dynasties emerged.
This concept of the origins of peoples has to do with their respective languages, costumes and geographic originations. These ideas are as old as the concept of Khenemu.
And none of what you said reflects anything more than the workings of your imagination.
Namely can you show from facts and evidence that 5,000 - 6,000 years ago any African in the Sahara or Upper Egypt self identified as
quote: The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black).
When you can provide the EVIDENCE that such "clans" existed and SELF IDENTIFIED as RED, WHITE, BLACK according to a DESERT they came from, then please provide it. I doubt you can. This is why I question your claims because native or not, there is no way in the world you can claim to know that they self identified as such.
However, we DO KNOW that the Egyptians identified THEMSELVES with BLACK and foreigners with RED AND with the desert or destruction. RED was NOT a sign or token of ethnicity for OTHER AFRICANS and was almost exclusively associated with Asiatics. All of this is readily proven from facts and evidence from Egypt.
Posts: 8896 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: we have the Red and the Black Desert
And none of what you said reflects anything more than the workings of your imagination.
Namely can you show from facts and evidence that 5,000 - 6,000 years ago any African in the Sahara or Upper Egypt self identified as
quote: The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black).
When you can provide the EVIDENCE that such "clans" existed and SELF IDENTIFIED as RED, WHITE, BLACK according to a DESERT they came from, then please provide it. I doubt you can. This is why I question your claims because native or not, there is no way in the world you can claim to know that they self identified as such.
However, we DO KNOW that the Egyptians identified THEMSELVES with BLACK and foreigners with RED AND with the desert or destruction. RED was NOT a sign or token of ethnicity for OTHER AFRICANS and was almost exclusively associated with Asiatics. All of this is readily proven from facts and evidence from Egypt. [/QB][/QUOTE]
We know? How do we know? What are your sources? What language is this evidence written in? Compiled by whom?
And once again for the fifteenth time Doug M, Red , Black and White are not ethnicities. The original predynastic legend of Khenemu creating all human and animal kind- why don't you go and search out the oldest writings on Khenemu read the original text. Can you read heiroglyphics? If not take the time to learn how to read each of the successive stages of Ancient Egyptian writing and compare it with the pictograph texts written all over the rocks scattered from the White Nile to Libya.
I am not certain who could take the time to teach you to read pictographs on rocks. As these are sacred texts I doubt many tribal elders would be eager to teach anyone as subjective as you anything. We Africans respect our elders. Tribal Elders teach us about the culture of our ancestors verbally and by leading us on long journeys in the desert where they teach us about the "talking stones". We learn because our minds are open. It would be a very short lesson- indeed superfulous - if the person learning from the elder already knew everything there was to be known.
You are an English speaking American. Everything you read is in English. Everything you learn is learned through the filter of discernment of the English culture. The English culture -the English language- do you have any idea how many words there are for red in our language? How many words for black in our language? Do you have any idea how simplistic and generalized Egyptological rationalizations and treatise are by their very nature? Does the Egyptian culture actually interest you? Or are you interested solely in Egyptian history in its racialist fringe?
It is crucial to transliteration -one of the reasons many Egyptological sources are less than accurate- they cannot tell the difference between an "antelope" and an Oryx. they cannot discern the difference between a "cat" and a Caracal. When reading Ancient Egyptian texts, one must have the faculties to discern the significance of each feather, each horn, each animal.
But this is not about you learning anything about Egyptian history. This is just another opportunity for you to leap out of your self-imposed ignorance box and blackify anyone dim enough to take the racialist obsession seriously.
Posts: 152 | From: Boston MA USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Maahes: When you can provide the EVIDENCE that such "clans" existed and SELF IDENTIFIED as RED, WHITE, BLACK according to a DESERT they came from, then please provide it. I doubt you can. This is why I question your claims because native or not, there is no way in the world you can claim to know that they self identified as such.
However, we DO KNOW that the Egyptians identified THEMSELVES with BLACK and foreigners with RED AND with the desert or destruction. RED was NOT a sign or token of ethnicity for OTHER AFRICANS and was almost exclusively associated with Asiatics. All of this is readily proven from facts and evidence from Egypt.
We know? How do we know? What are your sources? What language is this evidence written in? Compiled by whom?
Maahes. Why are you posting a misrepresentation of an actual tomb scene? An altered rendition.
Same tomb, authentic replication.
Denkmaeler plate, KV17
KV 11. Tomb of Ramses III
Egyptian, Lybian, Nehesu, Asiatic
If you'd have taken heed, you'd have noticed that I personally posted for you the primary sources, previously.
Courtesy of Al Takuri:
quote:Of course doesn't matter what one shows the stubborn naysayer whose view is more akin to religious belief than objective factual observation, but anyway ...
This is what Diop and Obenga offered at the UNESCO symposium, that none of the Egyptologist/etc., could dispute, leaving the naysayers flabbergasted. It remains indisputable to this day, has always been such, will always be so.
[presented with thanks to Bonotchi Montgomery and Raymond Davis]
quote:And once again for the fifteenth time Doug M, Red , Black and White are not ethnicities.
Of course not, they are just relative descriptions of natural appearance, which reflects a kinship among geographically contingent populations.
quote: The original predynastic legend of Khenemu creating all human and animal kind- why don't you go and search out the oldest writings on Khenemu read the original text. Can you read heiroglyphics?
Why not summarize the myth and relate to us what it has to do with "Blacks" and "Reds".? In the mean time, can you read the hieroglyphs I've presented to you, courtesy of Al Takuri?
quote:If not take the time to learn how to read each of the successive stages of Ancient Egyptian writing and compare it with the pictograph texts written all over the rocks scattered from the White Nile to Libya.
I'd doubt they wouldn't support Doug's assertions or that they'd answer his questions.
quote:I am not certain who could take the time to teach you to read pictographs on rocks. As these are sacred texts I doubt many tribal elders would be eager to teach anyone as subjective as you anything. We Africans respect our elders. Tribal Elders teach us about the culture of our ancestors verbally and by leading us on long journeys in the desert where they teach us about the "talking stones". We learn because our minds are open. It would be a very short lesson- indeed superfulous - if the person learning from the elder already knew everything there was to be known.
Did you know that archaeologists know how to decipher rock symbols as well? Toby Wilkinson for one used this skill to trace Egyptian origins in the south, noting the origin of the Ka and Crowns to be somewhere in the northern Sudan or Eastern desert.
quote:You are an English speaking American. Everything you read is in English. Everything you learn is learned through the filter of discernment of the English culture. The English culture -the English language- do you have any idea how many words there are for red in our language? How many words for black in our language?
It doesn't matter since the strongest descriptor for "Black" in the ancient Egyptian language was Kem, in which they labeled themselves with as attested to by the primary sources. YOUR language is irrelevant unless of course you're speaking of Coptic.
quote: Do you have any idea how simplistic and generalized Egyptological rationalizations and treatise are by their very nature?
I guess the Ancient Egyptians were just as simple by naming their land Km.t and themselves, Kemmemou.
quote:It is crucial to transliteration -one of the reasons many Egyptological sources are less than accurate- they cannot tell the difference between an "antelope" and an Oryx. they cannot discern the difference between a "cat" and a Caracal. When reading Ancient Egyptian texts, one must have the faculties to discern the significance of each feather, each horn, each animal.
Your off-topic banter seems to be a general theme of yours when responding to comments.
quote:But this is not about you learning anything about Egyptian history. This is just another opportunity for you to leap out of your self-imposed ignorance box and blackify anyone dim enough to take the racialist obsession seriously.
Obviously this can be seen as just another meaningless diatribe from you.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Some minds are closed to factual presentation and I have no intent to pry them open. Perhaps there is an ostrich clan whose members stick their heads in the sand while leaving their arses fully exposed?
Just a quick note to ImageMaster DougM. AEs did apply red to Africans. One of the two great reds were the "Libyans" in the desert to their west. Aamu were the other great red division.
But keep in mind the Intyw and Medjay of the desert to the river's east were not reds. They belonged to the great black Nehhesu while the AEs were the great black Rot Romitu.
These are the dshr.t and km.t communities of AE record.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Maahes:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No it does not. Neither does km.t and dshr.t.
The peoples of Egypt/Sudan took their name from the great potter himself.
Amentet
Who is it that comes from the west?
The Western Desert is the ancestral home of at least three ethnic groups including the predynastic tribal clans- Addax, Nyala and Audad. The now arid Western Desert was once very different ecologically speaking. As in other regions within the enormous African Continent- tropical savannah tends to wane and ebb over millenia. This leaves mosiacs of Aciacia scrublands surrounded by ever shifting desert habitats. When the water table beneath the Western Desert fell dramatically the region was less hospitable for human life. The indigenous populations were obliged to migrate elsewhere. Some of the peoples were nomadic and visited seasonally. Others were more or less permanent inhabitants before the great aridification period that occured ~ 5000 years ago.
At some point in time and probably more than once- mass migrations of Red Desert and also Black desert denizens arrived in Kem.t -the land of Khnum.
The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black). These four cultures all contributed something lasting in dynastic Egypt. It should be clear however that the Oryx were the indigenous tribal clan when the first dynasties emerged.
This concept of the origins of peoples has to do with their respective languages, costumes and geographic originations. These ideas are as old as the concept of Khenemu.
And none of what you said reflects anything more than the workings of your imagination.
Namely can you show from facts and evidence that 5,000 - 6,000 years ago any African in the Sahara or Upper Egypt self identified as
quote: The indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley- the Horn Africans ie the Oryx were joined by the Addax (Red), the Auodad ( White Desert) and the Nyala (Black).
When you can provide the EVIDENCE that such "clans" existed and SELF IDENTIFIED as RED, WHITE, BLACK according to a DESERT they came from, then please provide it. I doubt you can. This is why I question your claims because native or not, there is no way in the world you can claim to know that they self identified as such.
quote:Originally posted by oadsnd_mf: I've skimmed over some of the posts in this thread and I'll just leave the following comment.
Some African Americans are beatdown and have low self-esteem which is why they are so emotional on this thread. They think of themselves as nothing other than the planet earth's one and only victim. These African Americans also like to place Africa and Africans in the same boat as them.
The white man has told them that they are nothing more than descendants of 4'5 pygmies who are mixed due to rape by Whites, Native Americans, and East Asians, and have no culture or history other than being slaves captured from the forrests of "the congo". Unfortunately they are not intelligent enough to resist white propaganda and falsehoods.
So as a result they have to have Ancient Egypt as "black" so they can get some semblance of a history or culture and have a temporary sense of fulfillment and selfworth.
wrong. by the way most african americans do not have any native american blood.recent dna findings,and some do not have any white blood either.in other words some are unmixed blacks. that's all i have to say about that.i am only replying to you.i have not read any else here i very little.
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