posted                      

Diversity and frequency...in that order. Frequency may be a result of genetic drift. So it is taken with a grain of salt.

Of course there is a thing called "undifferentiated". eg U5 in Guinea

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
The origins of a clade are based on both frequency AND diversity. U in general has it's greatest diversity in Arabia with downstream markers found all around in adjacent areas i.e. Central and Southern Asia and in North Africa and Europe.

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

My guess is ...everything started in the Sahara and migrated out...away from the Sahara.

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That seems to be the case for all non-African humans in general.

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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Of relevance to the topic of this thread...

African Archaeological Review

John E. Yellen
National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Virginia 22230

Abstract

Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.” They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Of relevance to the topic of this thread...

African Archaeological Review

John E. Yellen
National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Virginia 22230

Abstract

Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.” They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries.

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Good find. This shows there was in huge parts of
the continent, a common sub-stratum, or "African tradition"
culturally, as the authors affirm. Full citation:

"Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.” They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries."
-- John E. Yellen. 1998. Barbed Bone Points: Tradition and Continuity in Saharan and Sub-Saharan Africa . African Archaeological Review , vol. 15, no. 3, pp. 173-198

----------------------------------------------



Now the above can be added to data from earlier threads- recap:


In 1988 Allison Brooks and John Yellin discovered a bone harpoon point in Katanda, Democratic Republic of Congo.

"Humans in Central Africa used some of the earliest barbed points, like this harpoon point, to spear huge prehistoric catfish weighing as much as 68 kg (150 lb)–enough to feed 80 people for two days. Later, humans used harpoons to hunt large, fast marine mammals" (http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/behavior/katanda-bone-harpoon-point, accessed 0510-2010)
-----------------------------------------------------------

The Wadi Kubbaniya Skeleton: A Late Paleolithic Burial from Southern Egypt
Description and comparison of the skeleton

By J. Lawrence Angel and Jennifer Olsen Kelley 1986

QUOTE:

“It is also similar to that of other desert-adapted or even savannah-adapted populations of Upper Paleolithic to modern times in the range from Morrocco and Egypt to the lake country of East Africa.”

“The proper comparisons would be with the hunting and fishing populations between 20,000 and 8,000 B.P., along and between the Nile drainage, from the mountains and forested terrain of Zaire to the savannah lake country. Northwards, toward the Delta (actual Nile Delta sites obviously are very deeply buried) and finally with the chain of North African populations.”

“If we had Upper Paleolithic to early Mesolithic samples from Egypt, Libya and the northern Sahara, we would probably find a smooth transition from the Ishango-Lothagam-Elementeita proto-Nilotics to the Mecha-Afalou proto- Moors and proto-Berbers.”

“The Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton is a link in a chain of hunting and fishing peoples present in Africa, from 20,000 B.P. to 8,000 B.P. They are the direct ancestors of modern Nilotics, Nubians, Egyptians, probably Libyans and Berbers.”
-----------------------------------------------------------




[b]And as the article by deMenocal and Tierney show
the peoples of this culture as it developed not
only hunted/fished/foraged but were also pastoralists.
One of the most fascinating aspects of the African Humid Period is its impact on North African human sustainability and cultural development (Hoelzmann et al., 2002; Kuper and Kröpelin, 2006). North Africa was nearly completely vegetated during the height of the AHP (Jolly et al., 1998) and populated with nomadic hunter-gatherer communities that increasingly practiced pastoralism (husbandry of cattle, sheep, and goats; Hoelzmann et al., 2002; Kuper and Kröpelin, 2006). The rock art images in Figure 1 depict impressions of this life. Towards the end of the African Humid Period between 7,000 and 5,000 years ago the progressive desiccation of the region led to a widespread depopulation and abandonment of North African sites. These populations did not disappear, however. The large-scale exodus was coincident with the rise of sedentary life and pharaonic culture along the Nile River (a perennial water source) and the spread of pastoralism throughout the continent (Kuper and Kröpelin, 2006)."
--(deMenocal, P. B. & Tierney, J. E. (2012) Green
Sahara: African Humid Periods Paced by Earth's
Orbital Changes. Nature Education Knowledge 3(10):12)


and

Scholars note movement in the area was much easier south to north from East Africa, the SUdan and the Sahara into the Nile Valley than along the more arduous and resource poor Mediterranean coast. QUOTE:

"Paleoanthropologists tend to regard North Africa as one large geographical zone, thus assuming population affinities between the Maghreb and the Upper Nile Valley, are more likely that between the latter and sub-Saharan Africa. However, a quick glance at the map indicates that the distance between the Maghreb and the Nile Valley is larger than between the Nile Valley and Ethiopia, or Kenya. Moreover, north-south population movements along East Africa and the Nile Valley is more likely than an eastbound migration along the winding southern Mediterranean coast. Plentiful sources of water, availability of game and favorable climatic conditions (i.e. no hot and dry ecological zones) probably spurred population movements along this route. However the size of the Mediterranean coastal belt varied during the Middle and Late Pleistocene. Thus during periods of extremely arid conditions, the availability of water and game along the coast was more than likely rather limited. "
-- Pierre M. Vermeersch. 2002. Palaeolithic Quarrying Sites in Upper and Middle Egypt

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tHEN THERE is the pattern of wavy-line pottery seen over a broad area




".. numerous sites of this period, whether fishing settlements or not had one feature in common. From Lake Turkana to Nabta Playa, in Tibestim in the Hoggar, in Niger, whether the first village of Early Khartoum or the seasonally inhabited encampments (which Camps (1974) has grouped together as the 'Saharo-Sudanese Neolithic'), these sites all contained remarkably similar pottery - the earliest to appeat were large round-bottomed vessels made of a coarse fabric, the whole surface covered with decoration before firing and with certain common motifs, notably wavy-line and walking-comb. These forms and decorative styles continued throughout the whole Neolithic in the south Sahara and Sahel- potsof this kind with wavy-line decoration now having been reported as far afield as Mauritania, around 4000bp (Petit Maire 1979)... "
--Thurstan Shaw, ed. 1995. The Archaeology of Africa: Foods, Metals and Towns




More data on the wavy-line pottery complex


The Wavy Line and the Dotted Wavy Line Pottery in the Prehistory of the Central Nile and the Sahara-Sahel Belt

Mohammed-Ali A.S.1; Khabir A-R.M.2 (2003) African Archaeological Review, Volume 20, Number 1, March 2003 , pp. 25-58(34)

"Abstract:

The two type-sites of the Khartoum Mesolithic and Khartoum Neolithic (Khartoum Hospital and Shaheinab), in Central Sudan, were excavated at the end of the 1950s. The ceramics recovered from these sites, characterized by wavy line and dotted wavy line decoration, formed a cornerstone for identifying Mesolithic–Neolithic components along the Central Nile and across the Sahara-Sahel Belt. Moreover, they formed a model for an evolutionary sequence, and suggested a level of cultural uniformity for the Nilo-Sahara-Sahel Belt from the eighth to the fourth millennia BC."

----------------------------------------------------------------------



Lakeside Cemeteries in the Sahara: 5000 Years of Holocene Population and Environmental Change

Sereno PC, et al. 2008. PLoS ONE (2008)

Bottom Line: Called Gobero, this suite of closely spaced sites chronicles the rapid pace of biosocial change in the southern Sahara in response to severe climatic fluctuation.Two main occupational phases are identified that correspond with humid intervals in the early and mid-Holocene, based on 78 direct AMS radiocarbon dates on human remains, fauna and artifacts, as well as 9 OSL dates on paleodune sand. The older occupants have craniofacial dimensions that demonstrate similarities with mid-Holocene occupants of the southern Sahara and Late Pleistocene to early Holocene inhabitants of the Maghreb.Their hyperflexed burials compose the earliest cemetery in the Sahara dating to approximately 7500 B.C.E.

"Abstract: Approximately two hundred human burials were discovered on the edge of a paleolake in Niger that provide a uniquely preserved record of human occupation in the Sahara during the Holocene ( approximately 8000 B.C.E. to the present). Called Gobero, this suite of closely spaced sites chronicles the rapid pace of biosocial change in the southern Sahara in response to severe climatic fluctuation.Two main occupational phases are identified that correspond with humid intervals in the early and mid-Holocene, based on 78 direct AMS radiocarbon dates on human remains, fauna and artifacts, as well as 9 OSL dates on paleodune sand. The older occupants have craniofacial dimensions that demonstrate similarities with mid-Holocene occupants of the southern Sahara and Late Pleistocene to early Holocene inhabitants of the Maghreb. Their hyperflexed burials compose the earliest cemetery in the Sahara dating to approximately 7500 B.C.E. These early occupants abandon the area under arid conditions and, when humid conditions return approximately 4600 B.C.E., are replaced by a more gracile people with elaborated grave goods including animal bone and ivory ornaments.The principal significance of Gobero lies in its extraordinary human, faunal, and archaeological record, from which we conclude the following: The early Holocene occupants at Gobero (7700-6200 B.C.E.) were largely sedentary hunter-fisher-gatherers with lakeside funerary sites that include the earliest recorded cemetery in the Sahara.Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero with a skeletally robust, trans-Saharan assemblage of Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene human populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.

Gobero was abandoned during a period of severe aridification possibly as long as one millennium (6200-5200 B.C.E).More gracile humans arrived in the mid-Holocene (5200-2500 B.C.E.) employing a diversified subsistence economy based on clams, fish, and savanna vertebrates as well as some cattle husbandry.Population replacement after a harsh arid hiatus is the most likely explanation for the occupational sequence at Gobero.We are just beginning to understand the anatomical and cultural diversity that existed within the Sahara during the Holocene."

Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Of relevance to the topic of this thread...

African Archaeological Review

John E. Yellen
National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Virginia 22230

Abstract

Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. **In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.”** They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries.

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Good stuff!

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Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Accordingly, through limited on number of aDNA samples, there is enough data to suggest and to tally with the historical evidence of the dominance by Nilotic elements during the early state formation in the Nile Valley, and as the states thrived there was a dominance by other elements particularly Nuba/Nubians.

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posted                      

quote:

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Early Nilo-Saharan Subsistence and Technologies

The evidence for the timing of the emergence of food production is strikingly clear and consistent in the nilo-saharan stratigraphy. For the Proto-nilo-saharan and Proto-sudanic stages, no food production can be reconstructed. The Proto–northern sudanic language, in contrast, contained vocabulary indicative of the raising specifically of cattle, along with lexicon requiring the use of grains as food, but not diagnostic of their having been cultivated. The succeeding stage, Proto-saharo sahelian, added vocabulary of cultivation along with lexicon indicative of more extensive cattle raising and also, for the first time, terminology descriptive of large, complex sedentary homesteads, including granaries and round houses. The still-later period, Proto-sahelian, added further words to the agricultural and cattle herding lexicon, as well as a set of words relating to goats and sheep. Appendix 3 lays out each of these sets of lexical “documents” according to the linguistic stratum to which they can be traced back.36

The linguistically attested steps in the shift of nilo-saharans to a food- producing economy are exactly those of the archaeology of the earliest cattle raisers of the southern eastern sahara between 8500 and the sixth millennium bCE (see chapter 2):

• first, cattle raising and ephemeral settlements already with pottery;
  then, as of the later eighth millennium, larger, more sedentary settlements
  with granaries and round houses and prima facie evidence of possible
  cultivation; and
  finally, sometime after 7000 bCE, the appearance of sheep and goats.

The evidence that the earlier two strata——the Proto-nilo-saharan and Proto-sudanic—— preceding the Proto–northern sudanic era were pre–food producing is not simply negative. Two positive kinds of evidence exist.

First, in Proto–northern sudanic and Proto-saharo-sahelian, every root word diagnostic of food production for which there is a known etymology——and this means the majority of such terms——derives from an earlier root word of originally non-food-producing connotation.37These word histories, in other words, directly reveal the readaption of old vocabulary to describe new knowledge and practice. This pattern continued in the Proto-sahelian language, except for the adoptions at that period of loanwords for sheep and goats from Afrasian languages. The borrowing of these words demonstrates the spread of these animals to nilo-saharans who were already food producers. The chronological placement—that is, the linguistic stratigraphy—of this evidence is in keeping with the archaeology of the southern eastern sahara, which also places the spread of sheep and goats subsequent to the development of cattle raising (and probably cultivation).

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quote:

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Second, the two deep branches of Nilo-Saharan—Koman and Central Sudanic, which diverged before the Proto–Northern Sudanic period in the stratigraphy— each developed its own vocabularies of food production by two processes:

1. deriving their own new food-producing terms out of earlier Nilo-Saharan non-food-production lexicon; and
2. borrowing key food-producing words from descendant languages of proto– Northern Sudanic.

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quote:

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The latter kind of evidence reveals that the Koman and Central Sudanic development of food production rested on the prior creation of this kind of economy by the Northern Sudanians and their descendants.

For the Proto-Sudanic period, preceding the Northern Sudanic era, a small set of data relating to the economy and technology of the Proto-Sudanic period has been given tentative identification. It consists of three verbs, one meaning “to grind (a tool)” and the others “to grind (grain)” and “to heap up (especially grain),” along with a very, very provisionally proposed noun for a jar or pot of some kind. These terms direct our attention to some of the things we might look for in seeking to identify the archaeology of the immediate pre-cattle-raising ancestors of the proto–Northern Sudanians. They may already have been collectors of wild grains or grasses and would already have been making ground stone tools, and they may possibly have been experimenting with pottery making (see appendix 2).38

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quote:

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What have not been properly investigated as yet are the lexicons of fish and fishing in early Nilo-Saharan. The little we can propose as yet about the material culture of the Proto-Sudanic stratum allow the possibility that the Proto-Sudanians were the instigators of the spread of the Aquatic economy of the tenth to eighth millennia across the Sudan belt. In this scenario the Northern Sudanians could be understood as an offshoot of the Proto-Sudanic community that chose an alternative subsistence response to the changing climate of the era—a strategy adapted to the dry eastern Saharan areas away from the more favored river and lake environments where their sister peoples of the Sudanic branch predominated. In this way we could parsimoniously account for the shared pottery traditions and other features common to both the Aquatic peoples and the eastern Saharan cattle raisers.

The ceramic technology of these peoples directs the attention of historians to a very important story for world history—namely, the global primacy of sub-Saharan Africans in the invention of ceramic technology. Pottery making was already a fully established and not at all incipient technology in the archaeology of the southern half of the eastern Sahara by 8500 BCE, as early as the claimed dates for pottery in Japan. But Saharan pottery making was not even the first ceramic technology in Africa. The earliest known pottery in all of human history comes from West Africa, from the modern-day country of Mali, and dates to the centuries 10,000–9500 BCE. The archaeology of the makers of this pottery belongs to the West African Micro-lithic Complex,39 a set of archaeological traditions everywhere associated with peoples speaking languages of a third African family, niger-Congo. For historians the question still to be answered is, did ceramic technology among nilo-saharan speakers in the eastern and other parts of the sahara diffuse to them a thousand or more years later from far-away West Africa, or were these two separate and independent African developments of this key early technology?

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posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
In most African populations the allele(s) associated or responsible for their LP is either unknown, the African C-14010, one of the other 2 identified alleles associated with LP in Africa, or the European T-13910 allele . Some new studies can provide updated information not available here (some new alleles associated with LP I've been found in various world populations, for example, outside the scope of this thread. The main focus here is the LP phenotype).

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posted                      

quote:

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Saharan rock paintings show bows and arrows, but none are sufficiently well dated to permit unequivocal statements about their introduction into West Africa. Microlithic technology appears in the West African record by 12,000 BP. More significantly, however, is the archaeological culture known as the Ounanian, recorded in modern-day Mali by 9000-10,000 BP (Clark 1980; Raimbeault 1990). Ounanian points look very much like arrow-heads, and it would not be unreasonable to suppose that when bow and arrow hunting began in West Africa it introduced a major technological revolution. Hunters could travel further and shoot animals at greater distances and were probably able to rapidly outcompete the situ gatherers and (perhaps) sprear users.

In a neat case of a match between linguistics, technology, and paleoclimatic evidence, it turns out that there is evidence for the possession of the bow and arrow by Niger-Congo speakers. The evidence is tabulated here because of its importance to the overall argument. Table 3.2 shows evidence for reconstructing "bow" in Niger-Congo.

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posted                      

quote:

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For whatever reason, West Africa was only populated extremely sparsely until the end of the Pleistocene, some 12,000 years ago (Muzzolini 1993).

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quote:

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One feature of the Niger-Congo region is the virtual absence of residual languages. What languages the MSA hunter-gatherers spoke must remain unknown. Only in Southern Africa, where the expanding Bantu-speakers encountered the Khoesan, does a real mosaic of farmers and hunter-gatherers still exist. But within much of the core Niger-Congo area, only Jalaa in Nigeria and Laal in Chad (see Table 8.1 and Map 8.1) seem to be true remnants of an earlier diversity that must have characterised the continent. These fragments both hint at a more ancient stratum of hunting-gathering populations in West Africa, present at the time of the Niger-Congo expansion but almost completely absorbed by them. Niger-Congo must have expanded and assimilated all the resident groups and must therefore have had highly convincing technological or societal tools to bring this about.

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posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:


This show the peopling of the Sahara during the Holocene period (Green Sahara).

It is from this study:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/458.full.pdf

(Reading the part of the study starting with the title: The Peopling of the Sahara During the Holocene is very interesting. I assume people have read it)

The Barbed Points (aqualithic) and Ounanian culture are both ancient indigenous African culture. According to the study, the Aqualithic African culture spread following the expansion of aquatic resources in the Holocene which made the Sahara attractive to populations with existing fishing and riverine hunting skills. The Ounanian culture (Niger-congo speakers) from North West Africa would have spread southward and Eastward following big land animals with their bow and arrow hunting skills.

We already know Ancient Egypt may have been the combination of many ethnic groups distributed along many sepats. The numbering of the sepats starting at one with Nubia in the south. I wonder if the population of Ancient Kemet and Nubia/Kush are not the product further down the line of both those cultures. Ancient Egyptians being closer to Ounanian (Niger-congo speakers) while Kushite closer to Aqualithic (Nilo-saharan) with a lot of mixage involved. Also the Kushite (nilo-saharan) would have been slightly darker in hue than Ancient Egyptians (Niger-congo) in general. Although it must be noted that Ancient Egyptian culture spread from Upper Egypt (south) to Lower Egypt (north). Maybe it's the interaction (admixage) between the descendants of ancestral Ounanians cultures and Aqualithic cultures which laid the foundation of Ancient Kemet which later spreads further north toward Lower Egypt to form the whole Ancient Egyptian territory.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:


This show the peopling of the Sahara during the Holocene period (Green Sahara).

It is from this study:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/458.full.pdf

(Reading the part of the study starting with the title: The Peopling of the Sahara During the Holocene is very interesting. I assume people have read it)

The Barbed Points (aqualithic) and Ounanian culture are both ancient indigenous African culture. According to the study, the Aqualithic African culture spread following the expansion of aquatic resources in the Holocene which made the Sahara attractive to populations with existing fishing and riverine hunting skills. The Ounanian culture (Niger-congo speakers) from North West Africa would have spread southward and Eastward following big land animals with their bow and arrow hunting skills.

We already know Ancient Egypt may have been the combination of many ethnic groups distributed along many sepats. The numbering of the sepats starting at one with Nubia in the south. I wonder if the population of Ancient Kemet and Nubia/Kush are not the product further down the line of both those cultures. Ancient Egyptians being closer to Ounanian (Niger-congo speakers) while Kushite closer to Aqualithic (Nilo-saharan) with a lot of mixage involved. Also the Kushite (nilo-saharan) would have been slightly darker in hue than Ancient Egyptians (Niger-congo) in general. Although it must be noted that Ancient Egyptian culture spread from Upper Egypt (south) to Lower Egypt (north). Maybe it's the interaction (admixage) between the descendants of ancestral Ounanians cultures and Aqualithic cultures which laid the foundation of Ancient Kemet which later spreads further north toward Lower Egypt to form the whole Ancient Egyptian territory.

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In addition, I refer to this thread.


Land-Ocean Interactions: Climate Variability off West Africa for the Last 21, 000 yea


http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008760;p=1#000000

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Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

It seems to be usually agreed that Niger-Congo speakers (sometime called Niger-Kordofanian) originate from a region around the Nuba Mountains/Kordofan in Sudan in East Africa.

Same thing could be said about the haplogroup E-M2 (E1b1a) one of the haplogroup common in Niger-Congo speakers among other haplogroups.

Taken from this book:

We can read:

quote:

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The first expansion of Niger-Congo peoples appears to have stretched from as far east as the Nuba Mountains of Sudan, where proto-Kordofanian would have been spoken, to as far west as Mali, anciently the territory of the Mande and Atlantic-Congo branches. Just how long ago this period of expansion took place remains unknown.

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quote:

---

The ceramic technology of these peoples directs the attention of historians to a very important story for world history—namely, the global primacy of sub-Saharan Africans in the invention of ceramic technology. Pottery making was already a fully established and not at all incipient technology in the archaeology of the southern half of the eastern Sahara by 8500 BCE, as early as the claimed dates for pottery in Japan. But Saharan pottery making was not even the first ceramic technology in Africa. The earliest known pottery in all of human history comes from West Africa, from the modern-day country of Mali, and dates to the centuries 10,000–9500 BCE. The archaeology of the makers of this pottery belongs to the West African Micro-lithic Complex,39 a set of archaeological traditions everywhere associated with peoples speaking languages of a third African family, Niger-Congo. For historians the question still to be answered is, did ceramic technology among nilo-saharan speakers in the eastern and other parts of the sahara diffuse to them a thousand or more years later from far-away West Africa, or were these two separate and independent African developments of this key early technology?

---

quote:

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Using the principle of the phylogeographic parsimony, the resolution of the E1b1b trifurcation in favor of a common ancestor of E-M2 and E-M329 strongly supports the hypothesis that haplogroup E1b1 originated in eastern Africa, as previously suggested [10], and that chromosomes E-M2, so frequently observed in sub-Saharan Africa, trace their descent to a common ancestor present in eastern Africa.

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posted                         

quote:

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The first expansion of Niger-Congo peoples appears to have stretched from as far east as the Nuba Mountains of Sudan, where proto-Kordofanian would have been spoken, to as far west as Mali, anciently the territory of the Mande and Atlantic-Congo branches. Just how long ago this period of expansion took place remains unknown.

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Blench makes it clear that the Kordofanian group lived in Nubia while, as far" west as Mali, anciently the territory of the Mande and Atlantic-Congo branches ". This places the origin of Niger-Congo in West, not East Africa as you claim. Following Welmers, I was the first to discuss a Nubian origin for the Mande speakers. See: Winters, Clyde Ahmad, "The Migration Routes of the Proto-Mande", The Mankind Quarterly 27, no1 (1986a), pages 77-96. In this paper I reconstruct much of the Proto-Mande lexicon.

See more on Niger-Congo origins in my paper:

https://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/3149


I also note the Nubian, East African origin of Mande in my book:




Using genetic, anthropological, linguistic and historical evidence Dr. Clyde Winters explains that ancient Egypt was a multiethnic society in which each of the 42 sepats or nomes (Egyptian administrative centers) was dominated by a different ethnic group, who probably spoke various Niger-Congo languages. It illustrates that because Egypt was a multi-ethnic and multi-lingual society the ancient Egyptian language is related to languages spoken in Black Africa. Egyptian Language: The Mountains of the Moon, Niger-Congo Speakers and the Origin of Egypt illustrates that because of the existence of each sepat originally as an independent state meant that once the sepats were united into Kemit, Egyptian scholars were forced to create a lingua franca to provide the Egyptian people with a single means of communication for governmental, religious, intellectual and commercial purposes. The genetic relationship between ancient Egyptian and Black African languages make it clear that ancient Egypt or Kemit was a Pan-African civilization and that the Egyptian language is a link language used to unite the regional languages formerly spoken in the sepats of ancient Egypt.


You can order the book at:


Kindle Books


CreateSpace e-Store: https://www.createspace.com/4224626

In summary, based on the quote you published, Blench provides no support for an East African origin of Niger-Congo speakers.

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Blench does not support your contention

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Blench does not support your contention

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It's not just my contention unless you think I have anything to do with the book African Languages- An Introduction. But it does make sense since, it also corroborates genetic findings. We almost know for sure E1b1a(E-M2) ancestors were at one point in Eastern Africa considering both their common E-P2 ancestors and/or their common E-M2 ancestors. E-M2(and E-P2 of course, since the P2 mutation is ancestral to M2) is an haplogroup common among Niger-Congo speakers. E-P2 is also common among East African, including Chadic and Cushitic(Somali, Afar, Beja,etc), populations.

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Blench does not support your contention

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It's not just my contention unless you think I have anything to do with the book African Languages- An Introduction. But it does make sense since, it also corroborates genetic findings. We almost know for sure E1b1a(E-M2) ancestors were at one point in Eastern Africa considering both their common E-P2 ancestors and/or their common E-M2 ancestors. E-M2(and E-P2 of course, since the P2 mutation is ancestral to M2) is an haplogroup common among Niger-Congo speakers. E-P2 is also common among East African, including Chadic and Cushitic(Somali, Afar, Beja,etc), populations.

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It is your contention because Blench in African Languages- An Introduction does not situate Mande-West Atlantic speakers in Nubia. Blench adds Kordafanian which is spoken in Nuba hills to Niger-Congo group, and claims this group originated in East Africa.

It does make sense based on my research but not that of Blench as you had mistakenly postulated in your earlier post. Give credit where credit is due.

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
I didn't postulate anything about anybody beside posting quotes from books. I think the quote is from Ehret (in the same book). Anyway, I misunderstood your previous post. But still it allowed me to talk about the origin of both E-P2 and E-M2 carriers (all M2 carriers are P2 carriers). It strongly corroborates that Niger-Congo E-M2 carriers have a large part of their origin in Eastern Africa since both M2 and P2, which is ancestral to M2, have their origin in Eastern Africa.

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• pos·tu·late verb
  
  verb: postulate; 3rd person present: postulates; past tense: postulated; past participle: postulated; gerund or present participle: postulating/ˈpäsCHəˌlāt/
  
  1. suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief. "his theory postulated a rotatory movement for hurricanes"
  synonyms: put forward, suggest, advance, posit, hypothesize, propose; Moreassume, presuppose, presume, take for granted "a theory postulated by a respected scientist"
  

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
I didn't postulate anything about anybody beside posting quotes from books. I think the quote is from Ehret (in the same book). Anyway, I misunderstood your previous post. But still it allowed me to talk about the origin of both E-P2 and E-M2 carriers (all M2 carriers are P2 carriers). It strongly corroborates that Niger-Congo E-M2 carriers have a large part of their origin in Eastern Africa since both M2 and P2, which is ancestral to M2, have their origin in Eastern Africa.

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If you attempted to publish this alledged support of your theory of an East African origin for Niger-Congo, in a thesis, dissertation or research article, based on Ehret and Blench as your source, the peer reviewer of the article or your advisor will claim you misquoted Ehret and Blench once they read the quote. They might say that M2 and etc, was spread to West Africa by East Africans since Blench and Ehret see a West African origin for Niger-Congo, based on the Guinea yam, oil palm, and other crops. Crops of alledged West African--not East African origin.

I have been an advisor on many Master's thesis and PhD dissertation. I am trying to help you in case you are working on an advanced degree. If your sources are disputed, you may give up writing your Master's thesis or PhD dissertation.

Remember your advisor may not agree with your thesis, but if you can support it with the proper citations and analysis it will pass muster. Most people fail to get past the ABD stage because they lack a firm grounding in the review of literature.

Just because you cite authorities--without proper interpretation of the sources you can have your thesis or disseration rejected repeatedly.Remember, when you write the thesis or disseration you are not attending classes so everything you do and write is solely depended on YOU.

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Language phyla do not always form neat, coherent geographical blocs and outlying languages are often important indicators of early dispersals. In the case of Niger-Congo, the main body of languages is in West Africa, but Kordofanian, is in the Nuba Hills in the centre of Sudan (Map 5.1). Is this because the Nuba Hills are the homeland of Niger-Congo and the speakers of West African languages migrated westward, or are the Kordofanian speakers lost West Africans? These questions may eventually be resolved, particularly through the use of ecological reconstructions.

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So again, he mentions Nuba Hills as the possible homeland of Niger-Congo. He calls for other field like ecology to answer that question. Just above I didn't use any ecology but genetic theories and study results, which I think people will agree with me, speak for themselves. So even if Blench and many other linguists don't cite the homeland of Niger-Congo as the **only** possibility. They cite it as one and I can use it. He didn't say Italia or South Africa was a possibility, he said Nuba Hills. Other linguists, as well as yourself, Clyde Winters, as you said in your paper I think, also place the homeland of Niger-Congo(-Kordofanian) in Sudan. For this of course, you also deserve some credit.

Since I'm at it. I want to mention that some linguists and archeologists use this classification of the Niger-Congo(Niger-Kordofanian) family:



Of course, under this classification, the origin of Niger-Congo languages may be in West Africa or at least somewhere between or around Sudan and where they are now. Under this classification, it's the labelled Niger-Kordofanian phyla which has it's origin in Sudan. So we don't really care how the ancient language of Niger-Congo speakers is called. It can be (proto) Niger-Congo, Niger-Kordofanian or even Afro-Egyptian (Negro-Egyptian), the African "supra phylum" of Obenga. I just want to demonstrate (because it is true) that Niger-Congo speakers, and West African populations, where once in Eastern Africa, alongside Nilo-Saharans, Cushitic and Chadic speakers, no matter what their languages was called. This of course helped by the fact that E-P2 and E-M2 are said to have originated somewhere in Eastern Africa.

This is mentioned in the book: Languages of the World: An Introduction (2012) (Cambridge University Press). So the book is recent and from mainstream publisher.

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The Niger-Congo family is typically divided into three branches: Atlantic-Congo, Kordofanian and Mande. However, this classification is not uncontroversial: Some researches treat Atlantic-Congo and Mande as the same branch and, perhaps confusingly, reserve the term Niger-Congo for this branch, referring to the family as a whole as Niger-Kordofanian.

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Beyond "etymological/phylogenetic questions", this is usually the classification of the Niger-Congo language phylum:


Taken from the same book as above ( Languages of the World: An Introduction (2012)).

To finish off, I want to mention that Blench (as some others) also have the theory that Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speakers may have at one time formed one language which he calls Niger-Saharan. Again in the work called"Archeology, Language and the African Past":

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A Niger-Saharan macrophylum?

The idea that Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan were related has a long history in African language studies. Westermann (1911) combined Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan into ‘Sudanic’ in his first synthesis of African lexical data. Edgar Gregersen (1972) put forward both morphological and lexical similarities as evidence for a macro-phylum conjoining Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan, for which he proposed the name ‘Kongo- Saharan’. Creissels (1981) listed the many morphological and lexical similarities between Mande and Songhay, which are too striking and numerous to be due to chance convergence or extensive borrowing, and questioned the division between Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan. Blench (1995a, in press b, d) has presented substantial further lexical and phonological evidence to support this macro-phylum, for which he proposes the name ‘Niger-Saharan’. He suggests that Niger-Congo, rather than being united with Nilo-Saharan at the highest level, is a lower-level branch within Nilo-Saharan – a realignment that recalls Greenberg’s demotion of Bantu in relation to Niger-Congo.

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Of course, I don't know where Blench places the homeland of the Niger-Saharan (he probably doesn't know himself). But again, it doesn't matter. Because linguistically he sees the Niger-Saharan supra phylum, combining Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan, as a possibility. So while he doesn't say anything about the homeland of this new combined language family. I think it fits beautifully in the greater scheme: We know Nilo-Saharan may have their homeland in Eastern Africa(using linguistics). Same thing with Niger-Congo. Combined those 2 theories (and other facts/theories) and you can place the homeland of Niger-Saharan in the same approximate East African location. Niger-Congo or Nilo-Saharan ancestors would have move just to another location within Sudan to create the first division of the Niger-Saharan phylum into two branches, the well known Niger-Congo(Niger-Kordofanian) and Nilo-Saharan sub-families.

This of course, also fits perfectly with the Obenga classification of African languages, which I support. As, with the other African language families (Cushitic, Chadic, Egyptian and now Niger-Saharan) Niger-Saharan would descend from the Afro-Egyptian (Negro-Egyptian) language phylum. And then split into the Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo phyla.

Under this Obenga's classification from the book Origine commune de l'égyptien ancien, du copte et des langues négro-africaines modernes – Introduction à la linguistique historique africaine :

A larger version: http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w513/Amunratheultimate/Misc/Table1Negro-EgyptianLanguagesFamilyTreeb-1.jpg

The major theory brought up by Obenga being the existence of a pan-African language phylum he calls Negro-Egyptian (Afro-Egyptian). I think he also places it around the Sudan region.

This theory also goes in line with genetic studies. E-P2(PN2) carriers, thus large part of Niger-Congo and Cushitic/Chadic speakers, are already combined. They form one group called E-P2 who once lived at the same location (they have the same unique ancestor). We don't know the homeland of the upstream A and B haplogroup. But considering that many Nilo-Saharan speakers carry an A haplogroup and that the homeland of their language family is said to be in or around Sudan. Then we can suppose the homeland of their upstream A haplogroup may also be in the same region. The homeland of the Cushitic and Chadic language family is also said to be somewhere in Eastern Africa.

So there we are. We got the possible homeland of the proposed Afro-Egyptian phylum of Obenga. Somewhere in Eastern Africa. Where almost all modern African language phylums, as well as affiliated haplogroups, seem to have originated!

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The population history of the Nile has been of considerable recent interest and focuses on two competing hypotheses. The first suggests that the Egyptian dynasties developed in situ from the earlier Predynastic and Neolithic populations represented at sites such as el-Badari. The second scenario suggests that migration of people from western Asia led to the development of the Egyptian state (Petrie, 1920, 1939; Kantor, 1965). In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin (Hassan, 1988). Two recent studies provide evidence for population dynamics in the Nile Valley throughout the Holocene. Zakrzewski (2007) demonstrates evidence for broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement . Several recent analyses of dental variation come to essentially the same conclusion (Irish, 2005, 2006; Schillaci et al., 2009). Thus, in the most general terms, there is strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire. However, the diffusion of agricultural technologies into the Nile from other regions, and the subsequent trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

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Main points:

1 - In general, the archaeological evidence suggests that the Egyptian state had an indigenous origin
2 - Craniometry (and Dental variation) demonstrate broad population continuity through time on the basis of craniometric variation, with some level of population movement
3 - Strong evidence for population continuity along the Nile from the late Palaeolithic through the Egyptian Empire with some level of population movement
4 - Trade networks of the Egyptian empire, would have undoubtedly brought with it people and genes from other regions to varying extents through time and space.

So the main point here for us, is the STRONG evidence for population continuity in the Nile region from the late Pleistocene through the Egyptian Empire.

Taken from this study: Body Size, Skeletal Biomechanics, Mobility and Habitual Activity from the Late Palaeolithic to the Mid-Dynastic Nile Valley. Got it from here: (www.) pave.bioanth.cam.ac.uk/pdfs/033-Stock(2011HBTA)NileBiomechSize.pdf (you need to add the www. to the address, the forum doesn't allow me to post the full address)

The study by itself is also interesting as it analyses the consequences on the body of ancient specimens of the transition in the Nile from different lifestyles (hunting-gathering, pastoral, agriculture, etc).

We can also see it here:


The peopling of the Nile is the product of the populations in the A map, from inner Africa, from the South, which expanded in the Sahara and then went back along the Nile to settle down during the desertification of the Sahara in search of greener pastures.

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
Holocene Climate Variability and Cultural Changes at River Nile and Its Saharan Surroundings by J Yletyinen (2009)

LINK

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

Of relevance to the topic of this thread...

African Archaeological Review

John E. Yellen
National Science Foundation, 4201 Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, Virginia 22230

Abstract

Examination of African barbed bone points recovered from Holocene sites provides a context to interpret three Late Pleistocene occurrences from Katanda and Ishango, Zaire, and White Paintings Shelter, Botswana. In sites dated to ca. 10,000 BP and younger, such artifacts are found widely distributed across the Sahara Desert, the Sahel, the Nile, and the East African Lakes. They are present in both ceramic and aceramic contexts, sometimes associated with domesticates. The almost-universal presence of fish remains indicates a subsistence adaptation which incorporates a riverine/lacustrine component. Typologically these points exhibit sufficient similarity in form and method of manufacture to be subsumed within a single African “tradition.” They are absent at Fayum, where a distinct Natufian form occurs. Specimens dating to ca. 20,000 BP at Ishango, possibly a similar age at White Paintings Shelter, and up to 90,000 BP at Katanda clearly fall within this same African tradition and thus indicate a very long-term continuity which crosses traditionally conceived sub-Saharan cultural boundaries.

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The following quotes are from the book: The Oxford Handbook of African Archaeology edited by Peter Mitchell, Paul Lane (2013)

Basically, it tells us people now living in West Africa (Akan, Igbo, Yoruba, etc) come from the Sahara during its desertification.

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In West Africa, there is very little evidence for people south of the Sahara prior to the mid-Holocene, and such evidence as does exist is primarily of small scattered groups of mobile hunter-gatherers, some of whom returned frequently, possibly even seasonally, to the same places.

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Davies(1967) and Shaw (1978) both argued that before the desiccation of the Sahara, not only were Saharan inhabitants not compelled to move southward, but it was virtually impossible for them to do so. Postulated barriers to human occupation in southern West Africa include the difficulty of making a living in the dense rainforest prior to the advent of iron tools, and potentially lethal diseases such as malaria, onchocerciasis, and trypanosomiasis, the latter an added problem to herders because it can be devastating to cattle (Smith 1992). Only when climate zones contracted could people, and especially herders, move south.

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The artefacts found at many early sites support a northern origin for SMA people in southern West Africa. Projectile points are often in a 'Saharan Style' with concave or convex bases, and pottery often bears comb and roulette impressions very similar to types known from the Sahara and the Nile Valley as early as the tenth millennium B.P.

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It's written black on white. People in southern West Africa (Yoruba, Igbo, African-Americans, etc) have a northern origin. A green Saharan origins. They brought with them archaeological artefacts from the Green Sahara period including pottery and else.

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Abstract
Archeological and paleontological evidences point to East Africa as the likely area of early evolution of modern humans. Genetic studies also indicate that populations from the region often contain, but not exclusively, representatives of the more basal clades of mitochondrial and Y-chromosome phylogenies. Most Y-chromosome haplogroup diversity in Africa, however, is present within macrohaplogroup E that seem to have appeared 21 000–32 000 YBP somewhere between the Red Sea and Lake Chad. The combined analysis of 17 bi-allelic markers in 1214 Y chromosomes together with cultural background of 49 populations displayed in various metrics: network, multidimensional scaling, principal component analysis and neighbor-joining plots, indicate a major contribution of East African populations to the foundation of the macrohaplogroup, suggesting a diversification that predates the appearance of some cultural traits and the subsequent expansion that is more associated with the cultural and linguistic diversity witnessed today. The proto-Afro-Asiatic group carrying the E-P2 mutation may have appeared at this point in time and subsequently gave rise to the different major population groups including current speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages and pastoralist populations.

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The subclades of the network some of which are associated with the practice of pastoralism are most likely to have taken place in the Sahara, among an early population that spoke ancestral language common to both Nilo-Saharan and Afro-Asiatic speakers, although it is yet to be determined whether pastoralism was an original culture to Nilo-Saharan speakers, a cultural acquisition or vice versa; and an interesting notion to entertain in the light of the proposition that pastoralism may be quite an antiquated event in human history.17 Pushing the dates of the event associated with the origin and spread of pastoralism to a proposed 12 000–22 000 YBP, as suggested by the network dating, will solve the matter spontaneously as the language differences would not have appeared by then and an original pastoralist ancestral group with a common culture and language50 is a plausible scenario to entertain. Such dates will accommodate both the Semitic/pastoralism-associated expansion and the introduction of Bos taurus to Europe from North East Africa or Middle East.55 The network result put North African populations like the Saharawi, Morocco Berbers and Arabs in a separate cluster. Given the proposed origin of Maghreb ancestors56, 57, 58, 59 in North Africa, our network dating suggested a divergence of North Western African populations from Eastern African as early as 32 000 YBP, which is close to the estimated dates to the origin of E-P2 macrohaplogroup.30, 60 It can be further inferred that the high frequency of E-M81 in North Africa and its association to the Berber-speaking populations25, 30, 32, 60, 61 may have occurred after the splitting of that early group, leading to local differentiation and flow of some markers as far as Southern Europe.30, 60, 62

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