posted                         

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

If you can get the book

Imazighen: The Vanishing Traditions of Berber Women
Margaret Courtney-Clarke; Geraldine Brooks
New York: C. Potter, 1996

it's got at least one pic of an
**archaic admixed** looking woman in
the mountain fastnesses. I've never
seen the type anywhere else in print
or the 'net. It's either overlooked
(intentionally ?) or it's very rare.

It's one of the books of my now
lost personal library. I'll try and
find it and scan the relevant pics.

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OK here it is (finally)

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Even Tukuler admits the woman is still admixed via her fair skin and light colored eyes, though there are women who share her features but are much darker (black).

Take the older black-and-white photo of the Ourilah Kabyle woman here [moved above - T].

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler:

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OK here it is (finally)

[IMG]

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Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:

Yup. But the lighter one really got licked by
the archaic stick. And yes the darker one got
a tap of it too. It's obvious in the both of
them's facial bone structure.

I changed your hi-lite to show my emphasis is
"archaic admixture" not Eurasian admixture.
It's more a case of continuity or atavism
than admixture of course.

As far as Eurasian admixture I can't see where
the lighter one has any historic non-African in
her.

You know my position is some lightening factor
was onboard before the historic era. I don't
see why when far NW Africa was nearly isolated
from continent during the LGAM that indigenous
folk had some at least San light complexions.

No telling what colour the mtDNA HV H and V
were. Also what would keep any Iberians from
crossing the straight during the LGAM?

Historic sources from AE to Greco-Latin all
note light elements among a majority dark
complexioned greater supra-Saharan Africa.

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Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

Genetic evidence for archaic admixture in Africa
Michael F. Hammer

Abstract
A long-debated question concerns the fate of archaic forms of the genus Homo: did they go extinct without interbreeding with anatomically modern humans, or are their genes present in contemporary populations? This question is typically focused on the genetic contribution of archaic forms outside of Africa. Here we use DNA sequence data gathered from 61 noncoding autosomal regions in a sample of three sub-Saharan African populations (Mandenka, Biaka, and San) to test models of African archaic admixture. We use two complementary approximate-likelihood approaches and a model of human evolution that involves recent population structure, with and without gene flow from an archaic population. Extensive simulation results reject the null model of no admixture and allow us to infer that contemporary African populations contain a small proportion of genetic material (≈2%) that introgressed ≈35 kya from an archaic population that split from the ancestors of anatomically modern humans ≈700 kya. Three candidate regions showing deep haplotype divergence, unusual patterns of linkage disequilibrium, and small basal clade size are identified and the distributions of introgressive haplotypes surveyed in a sample of populations from across sub-Saharan Africa. One candidate locus with an unusual segment of DNA that extends for >31 kb on chromosome 4 seems to have introgressed into modern Africans from a now-extinct taxon that may have lived in central Africa. Taken together our results suggest that polymorphisms present in extant populations introgressed via relatively recent interbreeding with hominin forms that diverged from the ancestors of modern humans in the Lower-Middle Pleistocene.

______________________________________________________

Therefore assuming that by looking she is "archaic admixed" this is potentially an admixture of human species indigenous to Africa

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Actually lyinass, I never presumed admixture with Archaic hominids among any of the people in discussion. My conjecture is that they preserved such archaic traits from their ancestors since we know such features were typical of early modern humans!

The earliest known modern human in the Maghreb is Jebel Irhoud of Morocco below.



http://25.media.tumblr.com/a3397616a652b7172c5a724f0d3c4200/tumblr_mfuv0tFFaR1r5jpyco1_1280.png

Jebel Irhoud was contemporary with and bears the same features as Skhul 5 of Israel below:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gYpFeeADEcw/USQjrcEUMwI/AAAAAAAAkz0/eaJxH6UyYms/s1600/skhul_5_big.jpg

Both are anatomically Modern humans and such features are what many anthropologists call "generalized modern".

As for that paper you keep citing, I explained to you before that geneticists don't even know all the nuances of the modern human gene pool or even that of Africans which have the oldest gene pool in the world. Hell, an African American man in South Carolina was recently discovered to have an unknown Y-chromosomal haplogroup. Like the scientists you cite there are already speculations of 'Neanderthal' admixture but the problem is there is no evidence of Neanderthals in West Africa where the guy's ancestry is.

Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
You are correct. Non of the haplotypes are 'European' in origin but they are Southwest Asian. And you're right that Euronuts often use the label 'Near Eastern' to obfuscate the fact that they arose among populations right next door to Africans and were essentially no different from Africans. While mitochondrial hg U, H, and V, and T are rare and occur at appreciable frequencies in North Africa, hg M, N, and R do occur in Sub-Sahara particularly in east Africa. R0 for example which is prevalent in Sudan even among southern Sudanese and M1 and N1 are common in the Horn. Of course that is why Euronuts are attempting to white-wash these people as well. It is a silly game that more educated people are no longer playing.

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You have the right to your own opinion but you can't say I am correct. I completely disagree with you.

Saying U, R or N haplogroups are African haplogroups doesn't change a thing since they are rare in the rest of Africa (and in the southern part of North African countries to a lower degree). I see it only as another way to disconnect Ancient Egypt from the rest of Africa. Linking it more to the Middle East than with the rest of Africa south of the Sahara. Obviously it doesn't make sense because DNA analysis clearly show than Ancient Egyptians are nothing like most modern Egyptians or people inhabiting the coastal region of the country. They probably didn't have any significant amount of those haplogroups.

Also saying haplogroups U, R or N are African haplogroups make us looks like outlier with no logical and academic basis. A desperate attempts to steal other people's haplogroups. All geneticists and a quick look at the distribution of those haplogroups show they have a much higher prevalence outside Africa.

Ancient unadmixed carriers of the E-35/E-78 haplogroups probably looks something like the Masalit people (maybe the picture is Fur people or some other Nilo-Saharan people who looks like Masalit):



Massalit people (and Fur people) possess some of the highest level of M35/M78 in the world. That is 72% (23/32), (E-M215+E-M78 on the graph).

E-35 (E-78) is just another branch of the African E and E-P2 haplogroups.



We can notice Masalit got insignificant amount of foreign haplogroups admixture like J, etc. So their high frequencies of the E-78 haplogroup can only be explained with them being part of the original carrier population of the E-35/E-78 haplogroups. Unlike the Berbers, they probably have little amount of foreign haplogroup admixture. That is haplogroups which didn't originate in Africa. That's not the case with modern coastal Berbers which have a high amount of foreign MtDNA. That is many Berber carriers of E-35 are also carriers of MtDNA and thus foreign SNPs. When a population groups got lets say 40% of MtDNA in their population, it means 40% are from female lineages originating outside Africa. The DNA tribes results also shows significant SNP linkage with West Asia and more limited linkage with so called Sub-Sahara (they cluster with some modern Arabian groups). So their autosomal SNP profiles can be seen more in West Asia than in Africa south of the Sahara. Same thing as their MtDNA (but unlike their E-P2 Y-DNA of course).

Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by xyyman:
I will look was it later. On the road now.....

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I think these "researcher"/ "geneticist" don't even accumulate them as indigenous/ berbers. From a Eurocentric point if view Berbers are supposed to be different looking in the first place. Hence, Lion'S et al..


Here is a documentary on Tunis and her spring revolution.
By a Dutch journalist/ former politician. And some point some of the Tunisians plan on harming him and his team, 11th minute. I hope you can see it, and that it's not blocked to region. Let me know about it.

http://www.uitzendinggemist.nl/afleveringen/1251858


The Aterian and its place in the North African Middle Stone Age (2012)

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Description: Publication year: 2012 Source:Quaternary International Eleanor M.L. Scerri The Aterian is a frequently cited manifestation of the Middle Stone Age (MSA) of North Africa, yet its character and meaning have remained largely opaque, as attention has focused almost exclusively on the typology of ‘tanged’, or ‘pedunculated’, lithics. Observations of technological similarities between the Aterian and other regional technocomplexes suggest that the Aterian should be considered within the wider context of the North African MSA and not as an isolated phenomenon. This paper critically reviews the meaning and history of research of the Aterian. This highlights a number of serious issues with definitions and interpretations of this technocomplex, ranging from a lack of definitional consensus to problems with the common view of the Aterian as a ‘desert adaptation’. Following this review, the paper presents the results of a quantitative study of six North African MSA assemblages (Aterian, Nubian Complex and ‘MSA’). Correspondence and Principal Components Analyses are applied, which suggest that the patterns of similarity and difference demonstrated do not simplistically correlate with traditional divisions between named industries. These similarity patterns are instead structured geographically and it is suggested that they reflect a population differentiation that cannot be explained by isolation and distance alone. Particular results include the apparent uniqueness of Haua Fteah compared to all the other assemblages and the observation that the Aterian in northeast Africa is more similar to the Nubian in that region than to the Aterian in the Maghreb. The study demonstrates the existence of population structure in the North African MSA, which has important implications for t he evolutionary dynamics of modern human dispersals.

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http://waesearch.kobv.de/uid.do;jsessionid=E81786F9CAFC76A81FC261E6C578626C?query=rss_feeds_1818205&pageid=1347942796202-9619325052468898

Nubia Complex strategies in the Egyptian high desert

http://www.academia.edu/1590718/Nubian_Complex_strategies_in_the_Egyptian_high_desert

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Great post of picture. This is what I visualize the Berbers look like..Never been there but most likely these are the people researchers test as indigenous North Africans.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
And what are we to make of the following Maghrebi people?

















One may try to dismiss them, especially the black ones of being of recent Sub-Saharan descent but their features especially their wavy or curly hair and heavy brow ridges contrasts them from say a "Cameroonian". LOL

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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
As I said many times the hypothetical must be filtered out from these genetic studies.
These studies are filled with facts and also a lot of fiction. The trick is know where the facts ends and the BSing begins.

Once you know the MO it is smooth sailing after that. The Table of data is usually the only factual thing in the paper. The conjecture, speculation, fiction and story telling begins soon afterwards. Here is a good one….

For anyone that have a handle on mtDNA Hgs of Europe know that Euros believe that mtDNA hg-H1 is started in Iberia and spread through Europe from there extended also into North Africa, lol!. The funning thing is that absolutely zero H1 were found in Europeans ancient DNA from 2000BC onwards. And we are talking about at least 15 different analysis of aDNA. The only consistent hg found is hg-U. So we have a conundrum. Apparently, up to 2000bc no hg-H1 are to be found in Europe. Not even in Iberia. So now, where does that put the Helocene migration from Iberia to North Africa,…?....nowhere. It never happened. aDNA of Tunisians will tell the story of Tunisians migrating over to Iberia and Sardinia.

====
Ancient DNA Reveals Prehistoric Gene-Flow from Siberia in the Complex Human Population History of North East Europe(2013)

Clio Der Sarkissian1*, Oleg Balanovsky2,3, Guido Brandt4,

Comparison among ancient Eurasian populations Previously described populations of hunter-gatherers of Central/ East Europe (aHG [12], [14]) and Scandinavia (aPWC, [13]) were characterized by high frequencies and diversity of hg U4, U5a and U5b, which caused the two ancient datasets to group outside the cluster of EXTANT European populations on the PCA plot (Figure 2). This matches previous studies that have shown that genetic continuity between hunter-gatherers and present-day \Europeans can be rejected [12–13]. Like other European hunter-gatherers, aUzPo is characterized by high frequencies and diversity of hgs U4 and U5, but was genetically differentiated from aHG and aPWC due to the occurrence of hg C. Despite the fact that high frequencies of hgs U5b and V cluster the aHG and aPWC hunter-gatherer groups on the PCA plot (Figure 2), and that these hgs are also common in modern-day Saami, the ‘Saami motif’ is absent from aPWC and genetic continuity between aPWC and modern-day Saami was rejected [13]…..

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Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

You have the right to your own opinion but you can't say I am correct. I completely disagree with you.

Saying U, R or N haplogroups are African haplogroups doesn't change a thing since they are rare in the rest of Africa (and in the southern part of North African countries to a lower degree). I see it only as another way to disconnect Ancient Egypt from the rest of Africa. Linking it more to the Middle East than with the rest of Africa south of the Sahara. Obviously it doesn't make sense because DNA analysis clearly show than Ancient Egyptians are nothing like most modern Egyptians or people inhabiting the coastal region of the country. They probably didn't have any significant amount of those haplogroups.

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quote:

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Also saying haplogroups U, R or N are African haplogroups make us looks like outlier with no logical and academic basis. A desperate attempts to steal other people's haplogroups. All geneticists and a quick look at the distribution of those haplogroups show they have a much higher prevalence outside Africa.

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quote:

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Ancient unadmixed carriers of the E-35/E-78 haplogroups probably looks something like the Masalit people (maybe the picture is Fur people or some other Nilo-Saharan people who looks like Masalit):



Massalit people (and Fur people) possess some of the highest level of M35/M78 in the world. That is 72% (23/32), (E-M215+E-M78 on the graph).

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Actually we already have a good idea of what the original E-M78 carriers looked like.

'Y-Chromosomal Evidence of the Cultural Diffusion of Agriculture in Southeast Europe'

European Journal of Human Genetics (2009) 17, 820–830; doi:10.1038/ejhg.2008.249; published online 24 December 2008
Vincenza Battaglia et al

The presence of E-M78* Y chromosomes in the Balkans (two Albanians), previously described virtually only in northeast Africa, upper Nile,28, 63 gives rise to the question of what the original source of the E-M78 may have been. Correlations between human-occupation sites and radiocarbon-dated climatic fluctuations in the eastern Sahara and Nile Valley during the Holocene64 provide a framework for interpreting the main southeast European centric distribution of E-V13. A recent archaeological study reveals that during a desiccation period in North Africa, while the eastern Sahara was depopulated, a refugium existed on the border of present-day Sudan and Egypt, near Lake Nubia, until the onset of a humid phase around 8500 BC (radiocarbon-calibrated date). The rapid arrival of wet conditions during this Early Holocene period provided an impetus for population movement into habitat that was quickly settled afterwards.64 Hg E-M78* representatives, although rare overall, still occur in Egypt, which is a hub for the distribution of the various geographically localized M78-related sub-clades.28 The northward-moving rainfall belts during this period could have also spurred a rapid migration of Mesolithic foragers northwards in Africa, the Levant and ultimately onwards to Asia Minor and Europe, where they each eventually differentiated into their regionally distinctive branches.

Two archaeological sites located near Lake Nubia dating to the time period mentioned are Wadi Halfa and Jebel Sahaba.

skull from Wadi Halfa


skull from Jebel Sahaba


Judging by the skulls, the ancestral E-M78 carriers were even more robust in facial form than the modern Masalit.

quote:

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E-35 (E-78) is just another branch of the African E and E-P2 haplogroups.

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Yes, I am well aware of the cladistics of African E as this has been discussed countless times in this forum. Are you aware that E is descended from DE which also gave rise to D in Asia?? DE was recently discovered among over a dozen individuals in West Africa alone. Think about it. If E is African yet D is Asian though both derive from DE which so far has its highest frequency in Africa where do you think the schism between DE and D occur but right next door in Southwest Asia?! Do you realize there are certain indigenous (black) Arabians who carry very ancient forms of D similar those found in Australian aborigines?? Are you aware that before the discover of the dozen or so individuals in Africa who carry DE only a few DE carriers were found in Asia which gave geneticists the idea that DE was 'Eurasian' in origin and therefore E was also?! LOL Therefore even hg E is not safe from being de-Africanized.

quote:

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We can notice Masalit got insignificant amount of foreign haplogroups admixture like J, etc. So their high frequencies of the E-78 haplogroup can only be explained with them being part of the original carrier population of the E-35/E-78 haplogroups. Unlike the Berbers, they probably have little amount of foreign haplogroup admixture. That is haplogroups which didn't originate in Africa. That's not the case with modern coastal Berbers which have a high amount of foreign MtDNA. That is many Berber carriers of E-35 are also carriers of MtDNA and thus foreign SNPs. When a population groups got lets say 40% of MtDNA in their population, it means 40% are from female lineages originating outside Africa. The DNA tribes results also shows significant SNP linkage with West Asia and more limited linkage with so called Sub-Sahara (they cluster with some modern Arabian groups). So their autosomal SNP profiles can be seen more in West Asia than in Africa south of the Sahara. Same thing as their MtDNA (but unlike their E-P2 Y-DNA of course).

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Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lyinass,:

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1003296

Ancient DNA Reveals Prehistoric Gene-Flow from Siberia in the Complex Human Population History of North East Europe(2013)

Clio Der Sarkissian1*, Oleg Balanovsky2,3, Guido Brandt4,


Both the widespread distribution and high variability of hg U in extant and prehistoric populations are consistent with the description of hg U as one of the oldest hgs in Europe. On the basis of modern genetic data, hg U was proposed to have originated in the Near East and spread throughout Eurasia during the initial peopling by anatomically modern humans in the early Upper Palaeolithic (around 45,000 yBP, [5]). It is then plausible that hg U constituted the major part of the Palaeolithic/Mesolithic mtDNA substratum from Southern, Central and North East Europe to Central Siberia. It can also be suggested that the Palaeolithic/Mesolithic mtDNA substratum has been preserved longer in NEE than in Central and southern parts of Europe, where new lineages arrived with incoming farmers during the Neolithisation from the Near East [16]. This is supported by ancient genomic data obtained from hunter-gatherers of Scandinavia [58] and Spain [57], that shows a genetic affinity between Mesolithic individuals and present-day northern Europeans and supports genetic discontinuity between Mesolithic and Neolithic populations of Europe.

The detection of haplogroup H in the Mesolithic site of aUz (one haplotype) is noteworthy. To date, haplogroup H has either been rare or absent in groups of hunter-gatherers previously described. It has not been found in hunter-gatherer mtDNA datasets of eastern Europe [12] and Scandinavia [13], but has been found in two hunter-gatherers of the Upper Palaeolithic sites of La Pasiega and La Chora in northern Spain [20]. The closest match to the ancient H haplotype in aUzPo belongs to sub-haplogroup H2a2 [59], which is more common in eastern Europe [60] with highest frequencies in the Caucasus. Current ancient data is too scarce to investigate the past phylogeography of haplogroup H in full detail. However, together with U4, U5 haplotypes this H haplotype suggests continuity of some maternal lineages in (North) East Europe since the Mesolithic.

________________________________________________________

somehow xyyman thinks this paper says H is African

_________________________________________________________


same article:

the ‘Saami motif’ also occurs at low frequency (below 1%) in a wide range of non-Saami populations in Europe, and haplotypes closely related to the ‘Saami motif’ have even been found in modern Berbers of North Africa [33]. Two origins have been proposed on the basis of archaeological and genetic evidence [24], [32]. First, ancestors of the Saami were suggested to have reached Fennoscandia from Western Europe along the Atlantic cast of Norway as part of the expansion of Mesolithic post-Ahrensburgian cultures (Fosna-Hensbacka

reference 33:

Uralic genes in Europe 1990
Dr. C. R. Guglielmino1,*, A. Piazza2, P. Menozzi3, L. L. Cavalli-Sforza4

Abstract
We have analysed data of three European populations speaking non-Indoeuropean languages: Hungarians, Lapps, and Finns. Principal coordinate analysis shows that Lapps are almost exactly intermediate between people located geographically near the Ural mountains and speaking Uralic languages, and central and northern Europeans. Hungarians and Finns are definitely closer to Europeans. An analysis of genetic admixture between Uralic and European ancestors shows that Lapps are slightly more than 50% European, Hungarians are 87% European, and Finns are 90% European. There is basic agreement between these conclusions and historical data on Hungary. Less is known about Finns and very little about Lapps.

________________________________

mtDNA Analysis Reveals a Major Late Paleolithic Population Expansion from Southwestern to Northeastern Europe 1998

Antonio Torroni1

mtDNA sequence variation was studied in 419 individuals from nine Eurasian populations, by high-resolution RFLP analysis, and it was followed by sequencing of the control region of a subset of these mtDNAs and a detailed survey of previously published data from numerous other European populations. This analysis revealed that a major Paleolithic population expansion from the “Atlantic zone” (southwestern Europe) occurred 10,000–15,000 years ago, after the Last Glacial Maximum. As an mtDNA marker for this expansion we identified haplogroup V, an autochthonous European haplogroup, which most likely originated in the northern Iberian peninsula or southwestern France at about the time of the Younger Dryas. Its sister haplogroup, H, which is distributed throughout the entire range of Caucasoid populations and which originated in the Near East ∼25,000–30,000 years ago, also took part in this expansion, thus rendering it by far the most frequent (40%–60%) haplogroup in western Europe. Subsequent migrations after the Younger Dryas eventually carried those “Atlantic” mtDNAs into central and northern Europe. This scenario, already implied by archaeological records, is given overwhelming support from both the distribution of the autochthonous European Y chromosome type 15, as detected by the probes 49a/f, and the synthetic maps of nuclear data.

________________________________
Now the Saami are black ?

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Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

So you see, it's not a matter of haplogroups or peoples in Africa being "outliers" as you say. The populations of Southwest Asia are or were continuous with Africa especially in prehistoric times.

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Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

Nothing but a lame attempt to disconnect Ancient Egypt from Sub-Sahara Africa and connect it more with Southwest Asia or current coastal North Africa.

Djehuti = WestAsian nut. LOL

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Sure all humans haplogroups originate in Africa but some haplogroups originate outside Africa post OOA migration. Those people were relatively isolated and diverge historically, religiously, culturally, phenotypically and genetically with African people. Still there was always some amount of admixture and interrelationship between African people and people we share geographic borders with in Europe or West Asia (bidirectional). That's true for any people who shares borders with one another especially in recent time with larger population and faster mode of transportation.

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Anyway at the moment, none of the Ancient Egyptian mummy samples (18th Dynasty, 19th Dynasty) clusters with North Africa or people from West Asia, but they do cluster with African south of the Sahara (Great Lake Africans, Southern Africans, West Africans). Ramses III is also said to be e1b1a (E/E-P2/E-M2), which also link Ancient Egypt to Africa south of the Sahara (and their real "brethren" living currently in the Sahara, East Africa and in the south of North African countries).

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Posts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:


Also, didn't you yourself make the claim that just because a clade occurs at a high frequency somewhere doesn't mean it originated there?! LOL


Not that I deny hg J originated in Southwest Asia, but where is the evidence that it originated in the Caucasus?? Last time I checked not only does J1 have its highest frequency in Arabia but underived J* has its highest frequency in southern Arabia specifically Soqotra island. [/QB]

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Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Retards tend to copy and paste stuff without citing their sources or offering explanations.

I merely asked where you're getting the info from since obviously not only do you have penchant for mindlessly copying things but you aren't exactly someone familiar with genetic SNP clades.

Again while the highest frequency of J hgs in general occur in the northern areas of the 'Near East' i.e. the Caucasus and Anatolia, probably due to founder effect. The greatest diversity is still found in Arabia and underived J* is in southern Arabia and in Soqotra. I shouldn't remind you how these indigenous south Arabians look like.

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Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Retards tend to copy and paste stuff without citing their sources or offering explanations.

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Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
This is from Coon in the other thread. He compiled the photos from various anthropological surveys
It is more properly here in the North African Region thread because these are not considered archaic types but are supposed to be general representations of 20th century North Africans.



________1. Kharga Oasis, Egypt_______2. Arab, el Hasa tribe in Cyrenaica, Libya________3. Bourzeinat Tuareg,
__________________________________________________________________________Timbuktu
________4. Algerian Kabyle____________5. Shluh Berber Sous, South Morocco____6. Riffian coast tribe of Beni Itteft,
_________________________________________________________________________North Morocco


.

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And the funny thing is conman Coon considered all of these diverse peoples representatives of his imaginary European "Mediterranean race", for which reason he is not considered anything but a pseudoscientist by modern scholars.

The photos are from Coon's, Races of Europe.

They are pictures of Eurasiatics from all over modern North Africa with varying degrees of "NEGRO" blood, except for Fig. 3 which is a Tuareg who is, of course, mainly of East African stock with a small degree of Eurasiatic.

Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
___________________ __________________________
Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate


it's a wrap

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Genetic evidence of an early exit of Homo sapiens sapiens from Africa through eastern Africa

The mitochondrial haplogroup M, first regarded as an ancient marker of East-Asian origin4, 5, has been found at high frequency in India6 and Ethiopia7, raising the question of its origin.(A haplogroup is a group of haplotypes that share some sequence variations.) Its variation and geographical distribution suggest that Asian haplogroup M separated from eastern-African haplogroup M more than 50,000 years ago.

Two other variants (489C and 10873C) also support a single origin of haplogroup M in Africa.

These findings, together with the virtual absence of haplogroup M in the Levant and its high frequency in the South-Arabian peninsula, render M the first genetic indicator for the hypothesized exit route from Africa through eastern Africa/western India. This was possibly the only successful early dispersal event of modern humans out of Africa.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] This is from Coon in the other thread. He compiled the photos from various anthropological surveys




________1. Kharga Oasis, Egypt_______2. Arab, el Hasa tribe in Cyrenaica, Libya________3. Bourzeinat Tuareg,
__________________________________________________________________________Timbuktu
________4. Algerian Kabyle____________5. Shluh Berber Sous, South Morocco____6. Riffian coast tribe of Beni Itteft,
_________________________________________________________________________North Morocco


They are pictures of Eurasiatics from all over modern North Africa with varying degrees of "NEGRO" blood, except for Fig. 3 which is a Tuareg who is, of course, mainly of East African stock with a small degree of Eurasiatic.

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Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate

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Originally posted by the lioness
it's a wrap

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I don't think so,


http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2148-12-234.pdf

Divorcing the Late Upper Palaeolithic demographic histories of mtDNA haplogroups M1 and U6 in Africa

Erwan Pennarun, Toomas Kivisild, Ene Metspalu, Mait Metspalu, Tuuli Reisberg, Doron M Behar, Sacha C Jones and Richard Villems

BMC Evolutionary Biology 2012, 12:234


[i]"A Southwest Asian origin has been proposed for U6 and M1 [27-29]. Yet, this claim remains speculative unless some novel “earlier” Southwest Asian-specific clades, distinct from the known haplogroups, are found in which the described so far M1 and U6 lineages are nested. Claims for basal mutations shared with M1 have recently been made in the case of haplogroup M51 and M20 (both East Asian-specific clades [40,41]): They share a root mutation (C14110T) with M1.

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Evolutionary history of mtDNA haplogroup structure in African populations inferred from mtDNA d-loop and RFLP analysis.

(A) Relationships among different mtDNA haplogroup lineages inferred from mtDNA d-loop sequences and mtDNA coding region SNPs from previous studies (Kivisild, Metspalu, et al. 2006). Dashed lines indicate previously unresolved relationships.

(B) Relative frequencies of haplogroups L0, L1, L5, L2, L3, M, and N in different regions of Africa from mtDNA d-loop and mtDNA coding region SNPs from previous studies.

(C) Relative frequencies of haplogroups L0, L1, and L5 subhaplogroups (excluding L2 and L3) in different regions of Africa from mtDNA d-loop and mtDNA coding region SNPs from previous studies. Haplogroup frequencies from previously published studies include East Africans (Ethiopia [Rosa et al. 2004], Kenya and Sudan [Watson et al. 1997; Rosa et al. 2004]), Mozambique (Pereira et al. 2001; Salas et al. 2002), Hadza (Vigilant et al. 1991), and Sukuma (Knight et al. 2003); South Africans (Botswana !Kung [Vigilant et al. 1991]); Central Africans (Mbenzele Pygmies [Destro-Bisol et al. 2004], Biaka Pygmies [Vigilant et al. 1991], and Mbuti Pygmies [Vigilant et al. 1991]); West Africans (Niger, Nigeria [Vigilant et al. 1991; Watson et al. 1997]; and Guinea [Rosa et al. 2004]). L1*, L2*, and L3* from previous studies indicate samples that were not further subdivided into subhaplogroups.

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Two other variants (489C and 10873C) also support a single origin of haplogroup M in Africa.

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No southwest Asian specific clades for M1 or U6 were discovered. U6 and M1 frequencies in North Africa, the Middle East and Europe do not follow similar patterns, and their sub-clade divisions do not appear to be compatible with their shared history reaching back to the Early Upper Palaeolithic."

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Relief block with the heads of three Libyans




http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-the-collections/100007165

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If the archaeology of the Sahara’s southern margins remains rela- tively poorly understood, the Maghreb has long been the focus of sustained activity focused on the Pleistocene/Holocene transition (Lubell 2000, 2005). Here and at Haua Fteah in northeastern Libya, the Iberomaurusian industry introduced in Chapter 7 continued to be made into the terminal Pleistocene (McBurney 1967; Close and Wendorf 1990). Several unusual features are of interest, including evidence, rare at this time depth, for sculpture. This takes the form of anthropomorphic and zoomorphic ceramic figurines from Afalou, Algeria, baked from locally available clay to temperatures of 500◦–800◦C (Hachi 1996, Hachi et al. 2002). Dating 15–11 kya, they are complemented by an earlier fragmentary figurine from the nearby site of Tamar Hat (Saxon 1976). Distinctive, too, are the many burials known from these later Iberomaurusian contexts, including apparent cemeteries at Afalou (Hachi 1996) and Taforalt, Morocco (almost 200 individuals; Ferembach et al. 1962). Analysis of these remains (see inset) raises issues of territoriality, limited mobility, and group identity that economic data are still too few to explore further.

Knowing that people hunted Barbary sheep and other large mammals and that they collected molluscs, both terrestrial and marine, is very different from being able to develop this checklist of ingredients into a meaningful set of recipes or menus that could illuminate the details of Iberomaurusian subsistence-settlement strategies.

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The extremely large skeletal samples that come from sites such as Taforalt (Fig. 8.13) and Afalou constitute an invaluable resource for understanding the makers of Iberomaurusian artefacts, and their number is unparalleled elsewhere in Africa for the early Holocene. Frequently termed Mechta-Afalou or Mechtoid, these were a skeletally robust people and definitely African in origin, though attempts, such as those of Ferembach (1985), to establish similarities with much older and rarer Aterian skeletal remains are tenuous given the immense temporal separation between the two (Close and Wendorf 1990). At the opposite end of the chronological spectrum, dental morphology does suggest connections with later Africans, including those responsible for the Capsian Industry (Irish 2000) and early mid-Holocene human remains from the western half of the Sahara (Dutour 1989), something that points to the Maghreb as one of the regions from which people recolonised the desert (MacDonald 1998).

Turning to what can be learned about cultural practices and disease, the individuals from Taforalt, the largest sample by far, display little evidence of trauma, though they do suggest a high incidence of infant mortality, with evidence for dental caries, arthritis, and rheumatism among other degenerative conditions. Interestingly, Taforalt also provides one of the oldest known instances of the practice of trepanation, the surgical removal of a portion of the cranium; the patient evidently survived for some time, as there are signs of bone regrowth in the affected area. Another form of body modification was much more widespread and, indeed, a distinctive feature of the Iberomaurusian skeletal sample as a whole. This was the practice of removing two or more of the upper incisors, usually around puberty and from both males and females, something that probably served as both a rite of passage and an ethnic marker (Close and Wendorf 1990), just as it does in parts of sub-Saharan Africa today (e.g., van Reenen 1987). Cranial and postcranial malformations are also apparent and may indicate pronounced endogamy at a much more localised level (Hadjouis 2002), perhaps supported by the degree of variability between different site samples noted by Irish (2000).

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