quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: If you are saying there was cultural diffusion between Ethiopia/Eritrea and dynastic Egypt in which direction was it coming from and going to?
Likely both ways. As I said today of West, Central and Southern Africans -- the cultural exchange would have been in both directions.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: You know very well the history of Ethiopia/Eritrean writing.
On the other hand, West, Central nor Southern Africa has no descended writing at all from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. But to have traveled to and returned from ancient Egypt does not require West, Central nor Southern Africans to have returned with any form of ancient Egyptian writing.
Food was important. Not writing. Writing does not make anybody any better than anyone else. Otherwise, if particular portions of ancient Egyptian culture were required to prove having been in ancient Egypt, there are also no chariots anywhere else in Africa.
Similarly of pyramid building. They didn't have to return to West, Central nor Southern Africa building pyramids to prove they were in ancient Egypt.
These acid tests are not a reasonable measurement or proof of having lived in Egypt in ancient times.
Could the in situ Copts write or decipher the hieroglyphs?
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here's something I wrote in October 17, 2007 on America Online, prior to publishing my first book two years later...
------------------------------------------------------------ Seeking: Igbo & Amhara Research Partners
Hey, everyone:
Do you know, or are you an Igbo (Nigerian) and/or an Amhara (Ethiopian) who might make a good research partner for a project of mine?
I am finalizing a 19-year research project that investigates the role of specific African ethnic groups in ancient Egypt, Africa. The period I have concentrated on is the 2350-year period between 3100 BC and 750 BC.
Ethiopians are known to have been a part of ancient Egypt. Igbos of today's Nigeria are said to trace their history directly from Egypt. And there must also be other African Ethnic groups that can trace their history from ancient Egypt who I would like to know about.
I am seeking Igbo and Amhara individuals, as well as individuals of other African ethnic groups, who speak their language fluently, to help cross reference and discover African ethnic groups that retain either the royal language of ancient Egyptians or the language of the common Egyptian.
Please respond if you think you might be of assistance to this research project.
I ended up having to do the comparative research alone. Anyone who could have helped me, didn't. So nobody can complain. Still today, nobody has sought to partner with me... only complain.
It's easier to complain and criticize, than to do the difficult work. Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Read the copyright pages of my 23 books. Do you see any African or African-American publishers cooperating with me? No.
You'll only see...
Dover Publications (NY), who gave me written permission to re-print, publisher of many of Wallis Budge's publications, including "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary," and "The Rosetta Stone";
Doug Harper of the Online Etymology Dictionary (www.etymonline.com), who gave me written permission to re-print;
Archaeologist Dr. Otto Schaden and his photographer Heather Alexander, who gave me written permission to re-print;
Jeff Benner of the Ancient Hebrew Resource Center (www.ancient-hebrew.org), who gave me written permission to re-print;
Will Slatery, an editor at middle school textbook publisher/distributor Social Studies School Service (www.socialstudies.com) who suggested and guided me through my writing of 3-book series, "The Ethiopian Culture of Ancient Egypt."
See any black people? No. And nobody black is proposing any collaborative project to me. It's just all compaining.
I'm not trying to be right. I'm attempting to be accurate.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
So there is no sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing in Eritrea/Ethiopia. Glad this is settled.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: You know very well the history of Ethiopia/Eritrean writing.
On the other hand, West, Central nor Southern Africa has no descended writing at all from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. But to have traveled to and returned from ancient Egypt does not require West, Central nor Southern Africans to have returned with any form of ancient Egyptian writing.
Food was important. Not writing. Writing does not make anybody any better than anyone else. Otherwise, if particular portions of ancient Egyptian culture were required to prove having been in ancient Egypt, there are also no chariots anywhere else in Africa.
Similarly of pyramid building. They didn't have to return to West, Central nor Southern Africa building pyramids to prove they were in ancient Egypt.
These acid tests are not a reasonable measurement or proof of having lived in Egypt in ancient times.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: So there is no sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing in Eritrea/Ethiopia. Glad this is settled.
No, I'm just not interested in debating. There's nothing to learn in doing that. Each person only seeks to reinforce their own position.
I learned something very important about potential African migrations in and out of Egypt today. Debates will never lead to discoveries like that.
To learn what I did today, I had to really consider the things that Rain King was posting, even through his anger-filled rants. I had to nave been missing something. So I did the research and discovered the flaw in my point of view.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Is there sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing outside of the Nile Valley region?
Yes, outside of Africa, ancient Greece for one. Ancient Greek writing is simply ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing.
On the left is my retranslation of the underlying text of the ancient Greek English translation of line 26 of the Greek text. You see it says essentially the same thing as my retranslation of the corresponding hieroglyphic text on the right...
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wonder if anyone here can translate the ancient Greek text above with any West African language.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: [QB] Let's say it's true, that certain West Africans migrated from ancient Egypt. Why didn't they bring ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing with them?
Why don't modern Egyptians write in ancient Kemetic hieroglyphs since they are presumed by the mainstream to be the descendants of ancient Egypt? Why don't Copts especially have some form of remnants of "their ancestral" knowledge? The Akan for example have some remnants of the ancestral writing system;
quote: But the ruling-class that could read and write, that's different and maybe those who migrated to West Africa were not the ruling-class
No, some ruling classes certainly did;
Aside from that, DNA evidence shows that every member of the ruling class tested thus far has closest affinity with peoples who fall under the Greenbergian "Niger-Congo"/Bantoid category;
Again cannot say the same for the Tigray.
quote:Also, that leaves out many of the artists and crafts people, many of who could read and write.
Or....perhaps they have the same stylized art?
Rulers Depicted as Giants
Notice how both the Kemetic pharaoh and Dahomey king are depicted as giant rulers, and have one hand sticking out while being served by smaller humans. More proof of this diffusion of people and culture from the Hapi Valley into interior regions of Africa is shown in the appearance of the ancient Kemetic spiritual system being shown in these other African cultures. The Osirian crock and flail were sported by the kings of inner Africa. Notice that the Dahomey king holds the traditional Osirion Crock while the ancient Kemetic figure holds the Flail. It's also note worthy...that the color scheme of the Dahomey (Nigeria) are not depicting "black skinned" people despite us knowing that these people were/are still melaninated "black" Africans. It's also worth noting how these little Damomey citizens are shaped very similarly (even pointy noses) to how the ancient Mesopotamians depicted themselves.
Now what are the odds of these uncanny similarities being found between two unrelated peoples? I would pretty slim to none. If you say that it is likely then perhaps you can provide evidence of the Tigray also having this stylized art shared only between contemporary West African peoples and ancient Kemetic civilization? Again the Ausarian crock and flail on both pieces of art.
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:If West, Central and Southern Africans were in ancient Egypt, and since nobody seemed to bring writing home
Well the Dogon not only brought "writing home", but also brought the sacred Kemetic knowledge of the dog star Sirius B with them;
"The Dogon are an indigenous group of people who currently live in the west African country of Mali. Essentially untouched by outside cultures, they have been able to maintain independence from external influence and continue a civilization that is believed to have begun before 3000 B.C.. Evidence suggests that the Dogon migrated from ancient Egypt to their present location to escape a forced conversion to Islam in the 1500s. Due to their isolation and commitment to preserve indigenous teachings and tradition, they have a unique and vast knowledge of astronomy, biology and social and political philosophy. Each aspect of Dogon life has a practical and spiritual value. They have been able to maintain a unique social harmony among their civilization where murder, theft, suicide and even greed are rare. Disputes are handled by debate in an open forum. Their deep understanding of matter, life and the origin of the universe has sparked the interest of modern scholars and academics."
The Nile Valley and the Sirius Connection
The Kemet story of Osiris and Isis were developed and recalled by other Nile valley civilizations such as Nubia and Kush -- all of which identify the Sirius constellation system as the dog star (Canis Major), a manifestation of Anubu (aka Upuaut or "Opener of the Ways"; Greek: Anubis). In Nile valley creation stories, Anubu is a central actor. He is probably best known for his role in the battle between the brothers Set and Osiris.
quote: -- even skilled crafts people -- does that imply foreigners were not allowed to work in the trades associated with writing?
No West Africans had the most skilled crafts people on Earth. The process for making the centuries old Bronzes of Benin has been linked to the same process used to make automobiles. The art in West Africa is bar none. The Tigray certainly cannot compare in magnitude and detail to the art that was accomplished in West Africa following the destruction of Nile Valley civilization.
quote: That would include artistic painters, carvers and other artists, whose job it was to paint and carve messages on buildings and monuments.
In the picture below look not only at the uncanny resemblance that the Akan individual has with the ancient Kemetic priest, but look at the artistic detail of the architecture behind him.
quote:Were only the ruling-class allowed in the trades associated with writing? What else can explain West, Central and Southern Africans, if they were in Egypt, not bringing writing, painting and carving of hieroglyphics back to West, Central and Southern Africa.
You were redundant when you stated "writing" and later "hieroglyphs", and also incorrect!
Sacred Symbols of the Dogon: The Key to Advanced Science in the Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs
You say that the priest or high class of ancient Kemet were the ones who wrote. Yet you have yet to acknowledge that the content of the knowledge in the writing is directly related to the Dogon. These West Africans utilize (hence not simply a relic) the sacred ancient knowledge of Kemet. This "priest class" from ancient Kemet also has related writing/hieroglyphic symbolism, as many interpreters have pointed out. What other group on Earth has this sacred knowledge, and also claim a direct relationship to ancient Kemet?
quote: In terms of other building trades, such as stone masonry,
In terms of building, West Africa was home to largest manmade structure on Earth prior to the early 1900's.
Record breaking architecture continued to be the norm where ever our people go sir. What is the greatest architecture feat of the Tigray?
quote: According to the Wikipedia article on the archaeology of West Africa...
So Wikipedia is the most credible non biased source to cite on the matter of cultural achievement? The same Wikipedia that bans any person from pointing out the fact that ancient Kemet was a black civilization? That biased Wikipedia? That same Wikipedia is not going to put into any sincere context the nature of these structures that layer South Africa; Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
| IP: Logged |
quote:Then West, Central and Southern Africans could have essentially entered Egypt with their own trading currency, in the form of livestock, sales of livestock, breeding and livestock products (meat, milk, etc.).
West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara, not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.
quote: Even in modern days, we begin learning to read and write at 4 or 5 years old, and are not proficient enough for employment until after several years of college, into our late teens or early 20s. How much more difficult would learning to read and write on a commercial/professional level have been 2500 to 5000 years ago?
"The Ikom monoliths in Nigeria for example, frequently show several nsibidi designs such as carefully rendered concentric circles, spirals, lozenges, and other discrete figures. These have been dated by some scholars to 120-220 AD. (Source: Alok and Emangabe stone monoliths: Ikom, Cross River State of Nigeria,-Ezio Bassani, Arte in Africa (Modena: Edizioni Panini, 1986), 103. ) "
This makes Nsibdi in Nigeria over 600 years older than written English.
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: So there is no sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing in Eritrea/Ethiopia. Glad this is settled.
No, I'm just not interested in debating. There's nothing to learn in doing that. Each person only seeks to reinforce their own position.
I learned something very important about potential African migrations in and out of Egypt today. Debates will never lead to discoveries like that.
To learn what I did today, I had to really consider the things that Rain King was posting, even through his anger-filled rants. I had to nave been missing something. So I did the research and discovered the flaw in my point of view. [/qb]
Awwwwww...Now you gonna pull that one once one of the other big dogs done stepped in yard! Boy you were tryna get a little bit spicy at the end of the last page. I'm glad that you now see that the Bantoid peoples were in fact the center piece of ancient Kemetic civilization, since you clearly don't any smoke with a gunna. lol
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not to my knowledge. The dates of the migrations were done when the Egyptians stopped using the sS-md.w-nTr script. But you do find other clues: e.g., in metallurgy and the transference of local deities.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: So there is no sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing in Eritrea/Ethiopia. Glad this is settled.
Is there sS-md.w-nTr hieroglyphic writing outside of the Nile Valley region?
Although the institutional office of okyeame is believed to be centuries old, the use of figural wooden linguist staffs as insignia is probably a more recent development. Prior to the late nineteenth century, linguist staffs took the form of a simple cane, a tradition likely borrowed from European prototypes in the mid-seventeenth century. During the late nineteenth to early twentieth century, the British gave official staffs, often made with figural finials, to Akan chiefs who represented the colonial authorities. Since 1900, hundreds of figural linguist staffs have been carved not only for linguists but also for representatives of other institutions, such as associations of fishermen, carpenters, and musicians.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
I ended up having to do the comparative research alone. Anyone who could have helped me, didn't. ... Still today, nobody has sought to partner with me... only complain.
It's easier to ... criticize, than to do the difficult work.
Harambe is not something between African peoples. Shoo, the only one here helped me with anything near the precise info I asked for was tL.
But then we're all guilty of flex, me and you too.
Between the various skill sets of over 15 years of ES members there's no reason teams haven't assembled to pursue and answer many human geographic population questions about Africa and other projects no one is going to work on outside the OkeyDoke but ourselves
Each prefers to sit on their piece brick-walled from the others, but no puzzle has but one piece. All the compares and contrasts need synthesis when there's no clear overruling antithesis.
Anyway for whatever it's worth memory recalls Snowden refusing to help or share with Dubois. Why even fill in with more I got mine You get yours mentality from then to now?
All the independent minded Black Scholars I grew up on later ruefully report lack of help/concern from the people they worked so hard to inform on their covered up history etc.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: No, I'm just not interested in debating. There's nothing to learn in doing that. Each person only seeks to reinforce their own position.
I learned something very important about potential African migrations in and out of Egypt today. Debates will never lead to discoveries like that.
To learn what I did today, I had to really consider the things that was posting. I had to nave been missing something. So I did the research and discovered the flaw in my point of view.
Debate = winner over loser driven by Spirit of Contention
Discussion = everyne's a winner driven by Spirit of Cooperation
quote:Then West, Central and Southern Africans could have essentially entered Egypt with their own trading currency, in the form of livestock, sales of livestock, breeding and livestock products (meat, milk, etc.).
West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara, not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.
stop the nonsense
_________________
The earliest known example of a fossil human skeleton found anywhere in West Africa, which is 13,000 years old, was found at Iwo-Eleru in Isarun, western Nigeria, and attests to the antiquity of habitation in the region.[15]
The Dufuna canoe was discovered in 1987 a few kilometers from the village of Dufuna, not far from the Komadugu Gana River, in Yobe State, Nigeria.[16][17] Radiocarbon dating of a sample of charcoal found near the site dates the canoe at 8500 to 8000 years old, linking the site to Lake Mega Chad.[18] It is the oldest boat discovered in Africa, and the second oldest known worldwide
Bingerville (13,000 BP) and Iwo-Eleru (11,000 BP) are the most early microlithic industries in West Africa.[21]
In the 10th millennium BCE, there was development in pyrotechnology and employment of subsistence strategy at Ounjougou, central Mali.[22] Prior to 9400 BCE, Niger-Congo speakers used matured ceramic technology (e.g., pots) in their economy to cook their grain (e.g., Digitaria exilis).[22] And archaeological evidence from central Mali shows that West African peoples had independently invented pottery in the region by that period (by at least 9400 BCE). It is believed that local peoples at that time had begun to become more settled, and to use pottery to store and cook indigenous grains (including pearl millet).[23]
During the Holocene, the Green Sahara underwent the process of becoming a desert and became the Sahara; this occurrence may have contributed to the start of domesticating field crops.[24] Akin to the Fertile Crescent of the Near East, the Niger River region of West Africa served as a cradle for field crop domestication and agriculture in Africa.[24] Yams, rice, sorghum, pearl millet, and cowpea are field crops that originate in Africa.[24] Taming of yams (e.g., D. praehensilis) likely began in the basin of the Niger River between eastern Ghana and western Nigeria (e.g., northern Benin).[24] Taming of rice (e.g., Oryza glaberrima) likely began in the Inner Niger Delta region of Mali.[24] Taming of pearl millet (e.g., Cenchrus americanus) likely began in the region of northern Mali and Mauritania.[24] Taming of cowpeas likely began in the region of northern Ghana.[24]
In West Africa, the wet phase ushered in expanding rainforest and wooded savannah from Senegal to Cameroon. Between 9000 and 5000 BCE, Niger–Congo speakers domesticated the oil palm and raffia palm. Two seed plants, black-eyed peas and voandzeia (African groundnuts) were domesticated, followed by okra and kola nuts. Since most of the plants grew in the forest, the Niger–Congo speakers invented polished stone axes for clearing forest.[25]
During the Green Sahara, at Gobero, there were two groups: the Kiffian and the Tenerian.[26] The Kiffian were hunters who lived approximately 8,000-10.000 years ago.[26] The Tenerian hunted, fished, and herded cattle approximately 4,500-7,000 years ago.[
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Then West, Central and Southern Africans could have essentially entered Egypt with their own trading currency, in the form of livestock, sales of livestock, breeding and livestock products (meat, milk, etc.).
West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara, not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.
stop the nonsense
_________________
The earliest known example of a fossil human skeleton found anywhere in West Africa, which is 13,000 years old, was found at Iwo-Eleru in Isarun, western Nigeria, and attests to the antiquity of habitation in the region.[15]
The Dufuna canoe was discovered in 1987 a few kilometers from the village of Dufuna, not far from the Komadugu Gana River, in Yobe State, Nigeria.[16][17] Radiocarbon dating of a sample of charcoal found near the site dates the canoe at 8500 to 8000 years old, linking the site to Lake Mega Chad.[18] It is the oldest boat discovered in Africa, and the second oldest known worldwide
Bingerville (13,000 BP) and Iwo-Eleru (11,000 BP) are the most early microlithic industries in West Africa.[21]
In the 10th millennium BCE, there was development in pyrotechnology and employment of subsistence strategy at Ounjougou, central Mali.[22] Prior to 9400 BCE, Niger-Congo speakers used matured ceramic technology (e.g., pots) in their economy to cook their grain (e.g., Digitaria exilis).[22] And archaeological evidence from central Mali shows that West African peoples had independently invented pottery in the region by that period (by at least 9400 BCE). It is believed that local peoples at that time had begun to become more settled, and to use pottery to store and cook indigenous grains (including pearl millet).[23]
During the Holocene, the Green Sahara underwent the process of becoming a desert and became the Sahara; this occurrence may have contributed to the start of domesticating field crops.[24] Akin to the Fertile Crescent of the Near East, the Niger River region of West Africa served as a cradle for field crop domestication and agriculture in Africa.[24] Yams, rice, sorghum, pearl millet, and cowpea are field crops that originate in Africa.[24] Taming of yams (e.g., D. praehensilis) likely began in the basin of the Niger River between eastern Ghana and western Nigeria (e.g., northern Benin).[24] Taming of rice (e.g., Oryza glaberrima) likely began in the Inner Niger Delta region of Mali.[24] Taming of pearl millet (e.g., Cenchrus americanus) likely began in the region of northern Mali and Mauritania.[24] Taming of cowpeas likely began in the region of northern Ghana.[24]
In West Africa, the wet phase ushered in expanding rainforest and wooded savannah from Senegal to Cameroon. Between 9000 and 5000 BCE, Niger–Congo speakers domesticated the oil palm and raffia palm. Two seed plants, black-eyed peas and voandzeia (African groundnuts) were domesticated, followed by okra and kola nuts. Since most of the plants grew in the forest, the Niger–Congo speakers invented polished stone axes for clearing forest.[25]
During the Green Sahara, at Gobero, there were two groups: the Kiffian and the Tenerian.[26] The Kiffian were hunters who lived approximately 8,000-10.000 years ago.[26] The Tenerian hunted, fished, and herded cattle approximately 4,500-7,000 years ago.[
White boy read what the fuck I actually said;
" West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara , not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.:
Now where in the fuck is Mali if not in the Sahara?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Oh, those places aren't west africa enough. is what they told me Not even Bingerville I was told today's Rainforesters are responsible for Caption below: replace SCRUB with RECOLONIZING FOREST MOSAIC Nevermind ancient continuous open forest civilization of today's Nigeria. They would of been involved with routes to and from Egypt via Kush and Nubia
Sahel/Savannah Middle Kingdom Era Dhar Tichitt though young is original and may be the start of bi-directional traffic with Egypt via Sahra & coastal N Afr.
The earliest known example of a fossil human skeleton found anywhere in West Africa, which is 13,000 years old, was found at Iwo-Eleru in Isarun, western Nigeria, and attests to the antiquity of habitation in the region. The Dufuna canoe was discovered in 1987 a few kilometers from the village of Dufuna, not far from the Komadugu Gana River, in Yobe State, Nigeria.[16][17] Radiocarbon dating of a sample of charcoal found near the site dates the canoe at 8500 to 8000 years old, linking the site to Lake Mega Chad.[18] It is the oldest boat discovered in Africa, and the second oldest known worldwide In West Africa, the wet phase ushered in expanding rainforest and wooded savannah from Senegal to Cameroon. Between 9000 and 5000 BCE, Niger–Congo speakers domesticated the oil palm and raffia palm. Two seed plants, black-eyed peas and voandzeia (African groundnuts) were domesticated, followed by okra and kola nuts. Since most of the plants grew in the forest, the Niger–Congo speakers invented polished stone axes for clearing forest
Bingerville is a town in south-eastern Ivory Coast. Bingerville (13,000 BP) and Iwo-Eleru (11,000 BP) are the most early microlithic industries in West Africa.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
^^^^ but you are not discussing, you are stating assertions as FACTS... and casting aspersions on "west africans" that you have not yet actually studied.. you never answered my question on whether the Copts could read or write hieroglyphs? I am still waiting...
as far as the settling of the West coast there is an indigenous element that was joined by continued eastward migrations of people from the nile valley and Sudan
The Dogon tells of such groups of little red people that lived in the high escarpments of Dogon country
The Akan, Yoruba ( both Ewe & Fon are subgroups of people from Ile Ife) , Sonnike are from Aswan , Balanta, Bambara, Bamalekie have migration stories that should be studied and taken seriously...
One person who after studying the Akan believed their migration stories and postulated an origin for them in the nile valley was Eva L. E. Meyerowitz.. she is a really good source to start studying
Eva L. E. Meyerowitz: The Akan of Ghana: their ancient beliefs. 164 pp., 54 photos. London: Faber and Faber, Ltd., 1958. 45s.
also
The Jebu in Nigeria are another group who migrated from Sudan
Also, studying the people groups around northern lake chad will be profitable when making Nile valley connections...
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: you never answered my question on whether the Copts could read or write hieroglyphs? I am still waiting...
I am not a Copt. It would be better to ask them. I'm sure you can find plenty online.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: ^^^^ but you are not discussing, you are stating assertions as FACTS... and casting aspersions on "west africans" that you have not yet actually studied..
There are nearly 1 billion Africans in Africa. Why not invite them and let them speak for themselves?
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Awwwwww...Now you gonna pull that one once one of the other big dogs done stepped in yard! Boy you were tryna get a little bit spicy at the end of the last page.
Asar knows full well that Ethiopia/Eritrea has its own writing descended from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. In fact, the earliest so-called Ancient South Arabian script was in fact found in today's Eritrea around 900BC, nearly 200 years before it was found in South Arabia.
That's much different from writing with Latin script or Arabic script, even though both are also descended from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, as is ancient Greek writing and all other writing from the ancient world.
As such, there is no need for me to do side-by-side comparisons of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing and Ethiopian writing. It is unnecessary. Anybody can download comparative charts online.
I don't need to tell him what he already knows. Asar is a very intelligent guy. If he doesn't have a PhD in Linguistics, he should.
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: [qb] Awwwwww...Now you gonna pull that one once one of the other big dogs done stepped in yard! Boy you were tryna get a little bit spicy at the end of the last page.
Asar knows full well that Ethiopia/Eritrea has its own writing descended from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Asar hasn't studied that as far as I know
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Asar hasn't studied that as far as I know
Well, he should. And anyways, I've been offered an honorary PhD. So, I'm sure he has been offered one, too.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: you never answered my question on whether the Copts could read or write hieroglyphs? I am still waiting...
I am not a Copt. It would be better to ask them. I'm sure you can find plenty online.
That is called a copt-out
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara, not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.
I think some of you are not getting what Rain King is arguing. He is arguing that West Africa was unpopulated until Egyptians from dynastic Egypt settled there, the current inhabitants of West Africa are refugees from the fall of native Egyptian dynasties and he is citing Diop who implies that as we can see from the above. Diop says Robert Cornevin who wrote a book on the history of Africa was mistaken about West Africa being inhabited in 10,000 B.C., instead Diop says Central and West Africa are populated by eastern people and the evidence of this are the various cultural and linguistic links he claims, to dynastic Egypt
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Linear A Retranslation Linear A represents the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic language, and is descended directly from it.
"Linear A is a writing system that was used by the Minoans (Cretans) from 1800 to 1450 BC to write the hypothesized Minoan language." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: @Rainman: read again fool:
The earliest known example of a fossil human skeleton found anywhere in West Africa, which is 13,000 years old, was found at Iwo-Eleru in Isarun, western Nigeria, and attests to the antiquity of habitation in the region. The Dufuna canoe was discovered in 1987 a few kilometers from the village of Dufuna, not far from the Komadugu Gana River, in Yobe State, Nigeria.[16][17] Radiocarbon dating of a sample of charcoal found near the site dates the canoe at 8500 to 8000 years old, linking the site to Lake Mega Chad.[18] It is the oldest boat discovered in Africa, and the second oldest known worldwide In West Africa, the wet phase ushered in expanding rainforest and wooded savannah from Senegal to Cameroon. Between 9000 and 5000 BCE, Niger–Congo speakers domesticated the oil palm and raffia palm. Two seed plants, black-eyed peas and voandzeia (African groundnuts) were domesticated, followed by okra and kola nuts. Since most of the plants grew in the forest, the Niger–Congo speakers invented polished stone axes for clearing forest
Bingerville is a town in south-eastern Ivory Coast. Bingerville (13,000 BP) and Iwo-Eleru (11,000 BP) are the most early microlithic industries in West Africa.
The PYGMIES/TWA of West Africa.......I have already addressed on this very page dumbass.
"West Africa is a geographic location not the name of a people. West Africa has Nilo Saharan peoples, Niger-Congo peoples, Twa Peoples, Hausa etc, so who in the Hell is "THE" West African that you are referring to? The Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking populations did not live in West Africa until after 2,000 BC, and that was primarily in the Western Sahara, not the tropical regions. The only people who lived in West Africa during those early periods were the Twa.
"
You need to take you fuckin time and read before you address pink boy.
posted
Notice how y'all keep pointing to West African early development with no evidence of who these people actually were. You people are going strictly by assumptions that these people were Bantoid/Greenbegian "Niger-Congo" speakers (if you even acknowledge that aspect of the argument). You people are more attached to geographic region (i.e calling people "West African" and what not which so asinine when considering the great genetic diversity) then people who should be of the most genetic interest to the majority of us which would be the aforementioned.
Ancient West African foragers in the context of African population history Mark Lipson, Isabelle Ribot, […]David Reich
Nature (2020)
Our knowledge of ancient human population structure in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly prior to the advent of food production, remains limited. Here we report genome-wide DNA data from four children—two of whom were buried approximately 8,000 years ago and two 3,000 years ago—from Shum Laka (Cameroon), one of the earliest known archaeological sites ....However, the genome-wide ancestry profiles of all four individuals are most similar to those of present-day hunter-gatherers from western Central Africa, which implies that populations in western Cameroon today—as well as speakers of Bantu languages from across the continent—are not descended substantially from the population represented by these four people
Family the Niger-Congo speaker was NOT in West Africa until very recently, and we already have DNA to prove who was there. It's a damn shame however that you all (supposedly black folks). could not respect enough to even consider the arguments already laid out by C.A. Diop as demonstrated above. Family....do you all know that based on the KNOWN FACT that pygmies were the original population of West Africa, white supremacist with who are full of assumptions on this have even made the argument that Bantoid peoples aren't even 6,000 years old. They made the asininely assumptions that we MUST have came from West Africa, and therefore the pygmies remains mean that Bantoid/"Niger congo" populations rapidly evolved;
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: you never answered my question on whether the Copts could read or write hieroglyphs? I am still waiting...
I am not a Copt. It would be better to ask them. I'm sure you can find plenty online.
That is called a copt-out
He is trying to disqualify Bantoid/Niger-Congo populations based on this criteria, but when the mainstream's supposed "direct descendants" of the Egyptians the beloved Copts don't have any hieroglyphic knowledge he has nothing to say. He went on a huge tangent about how "writing" is the qualifier for the descendant claim in an attempt to disqualify the aforementioned populations, but doesn't have shit to say when the status qua does not meet his criteria either. He's an intellectual coward, as we can all see on this page. He's a clown, and that I why I cannot respect any claim that makes with his "linguistic knowledge" (more like wishful thinking).
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why not simply hire your own freelance archaeologist and linguist to investigate for you in Africa. I have done just that, having hired a linguist, archaeologist and other PhD experts to help in my investigations.
You can typically hire experts of this quality for $50 to $100 per hour, and you can give them assignments for as few or many hours that you choose. They can even travel around the world for you, as long as you pay their travel and accommodations. Just be sure you require them to provide you with written reports for each assignment you hire them for.
By hiring your own experts, they are loyal to you and what you want to discover. Also, you don't have to rely on so many books, whose information might be outdated. After all, this is a new century and last century's investigative tools were not sophisticated as ours today.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: He went on a huge tangent about how "writing" is the qualifier for the descendant claim
Actually, if you actually read anything I type, your posts led me to do some research and I reversed my position on that. I even credited you with my change in thinking.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Yatunde Lisa: you never answered my question on whether the Copts could read or write hieroglyphs? I am still waiting...
I am not a Copt. It would be better to ask them. I'm sure you can find plenty online.
That is called a copt-out
He is trying to disqualify Bantoid/Niger-Congo populations based on this criteria, but when the mainstream's supposed "direct descendants" of the Egyptians the beloved Copts don't have any hieroglyphic knowledge he has nothing to say. He went on a huge tangent about how "writing" is the qualifier for the descendant claim in an attempt to disqualify the aforementioned populations, but doesn't have shit to say when the status qua does not meet his criteria either. He's an intellectual coward, as we can all see on this page. He's a clown, and that I why I cannot respect any claim that makes with his "linguistic knowledge" (more like wishful thinking).
Exactly! If "Gebt" wanted to "discuss" don't insult your audience by low key shading they are "inferior" it just shows that you are not studying but cheer leading..and don't expect people to buy your book if you all you are going to do is insult their intelligence
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Notice how y'all keep pointing to West African early development with no evidence of who these people actually were. You people are going strictly by assumptions that these people were Bantoid/Greenbegian "Niger-Congo" speakers (if you even acknowledge that aspect of the argument). You people are more attached to geographic region (i.e calling people "West African" and what not which so asinine when considering the great genetic diversity) then people who should be of the most genetic interest to the majority of us which would be the aforementioned.
Ancient West African foragers in the context of African population history Mark Lipson, Isabelle Ribot, […]David Reich
Nature (2020)
Our knowledge of ancient human population structure in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly prior to the advent of food production, remains limited. Here we report genome-wide DNA data from four children—two of whom were buried approximately 8,000 years ago and two 3,000 years ago—from Shum Laka (Cameroon), one of the earliest known archaeological sites ....However, the genome-wide ancestry profiles of all four individuals are most similar to those of present-day hunter-gatherers from western Central Africa, which implies that populations in western Cameroon today—as well as speakers of Bantu languages from across the continent—are not descended substantially from the population represented by these four people
Family the Niger-Congo speaker was NOT in West Africa until very recently, and we already have DNA to prove who was there. It's a damn shame however that you all (supposedly black folks). could not respect enough to even consider the arguments already laid out by C.A. Diop as demonstrated above. Family....do you all know that based on the KNOWN FACT that pygmies were the original population of West Africa, white supremacist with who are full of assumptions on this have even made the argument that Bantoid peoples aren't even 6,000 years old. They made the asininely assumptions that we MUST have came from West Africa, and therefore the pygmies remains mean that Bantoid/"Niger congo" populations rapidly evolved;
Ancient West African foragers in the context of African population history Mark Lipson, Isabelle Ribot, […]David Reich
Nature (2020)
Genetics and archaeology at Shum Laka
Our analyses show that the 4 sampled children from Shum Laka can be modelled as admixed with about 35% ancestry related to huntergatherers from western Central Africa and about 65% from a basal West African source, or—alternatively—as a mixture of ancestry related to hunter-gatherers plus two additional components, one from inside the clade of present-day West Africans and one that splits between East and West Africans. The first component plausibly represents ancestry that has been present in the area since at least the Later Stone Age (prior to 8,000 bp), whereas the second component (or the third in the alternative model) may have its origins farther to the north, given the geography and phylogeny of the other populations we studied (Fig. 4b).
most populations in Cameroon today are more closely related to other West Africans than to the group represented by these individuals.
Additionally, the adolescent male 2/SE II carried an A00 Y chromosome, which suggests both that the concentration of this haplogroup in western Cameroon may have a long history and that A00 was formerly more diverse (given that the Shum Laka sequence falls outside of known present-day variation)12,13. The divergence time of A00 from other modern human haplogroups, of about 300,000–200,000 bp18,19, could support its association either with the component of the ancestry of the Shum Laka individuals that is related to Central African hunter-gatherers or with the deep modern human portion of their West-African-related ancestry.
The presence of deep ancestry in the West African clade is notable in light of the Pleistocene archaeological record5,40, which is limited but includes Homo sapiens fossils dated to about 300,000 bp in northwestern Africa41, as well as an individual with archaic features buried about 12,000 bp in southwestern Nigeria (the oldest known human fossil from West Africa proper)4
___________________________________
Do they say anything about the Twa or pygmies? No, that is Central Africa. Do they say anything about Egyptians migrating to West Africa 2000 years ago? No, actual research papers will demolish you
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
driven by Spirit of Contention 
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic