No your COWARDICE is simply being pointed out, and you're making it out to be "outrage". Again I've stated linguistics is NOT my biggest strength, and YOU KNOW THAT. Despite that fact you continue to try to press me on linguistic issues, WHILE YOU RUN LIKE A B!TCH FROM DR. WINTERS AND AUSAR IMHOTEP. These brothers are going HARD BODY with Bantu/Niger-Congo arguments going as far as connecting it to Mesopotamia and the Indo European Urheimat.
It is not a form of argumentation to keep mentioning Clyde and Ausar. Do you even realize Ausar is hesitant to even post here because of Clyde?
White boy stfu the context has already been given by myself.
quote: They have little agreement on most things and I don't think Ausar talks about connections to Mesopotamia and the Indo European Urheimat.
Yet you made a post implying that you know alot about these posters.
quote: Again, mentioning other people is not an argument
IN REFERENCE TO THEIR ARGUMENTS you fucking troll.
quote:While you're capitalizing letters name one, in a peer reviewed journal. I dare you
He has posted his credentials numerous times. If you don't read what he writes then that ignorance is on you.
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Rain King: "You have not even bought yourself to acknowledge the Bantu affinities of the ancient Kemetic language.
How many times did I state and imply that all the world's languages are related"?
Relax.
That is not a sufficient answer. Very cowardly. The Bantu languages in particular are the center piece of the ancient Kemetic language.
Furthermore....You've already made post in which you genuinely want to believe that Tigray is closer to ancient Kemetic than say Yoruba or Akan. Since that is what you WANT to believe then STAND ON IT. Don't jump off of your square when you see fierce and formidable opposition that will otherwise knock you off.
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Anyway...
Back to the topic. The Lioness, did you see my analysis of the so-called Hyksos?
The TOPIC of this thread is "Ancient Egypt Africa Cultural Diffusion", so why in the fuck are you talking about the Bible, the Hyksos, the Tigray and all from a linguistic standpoint. Absolutely NOTHING from a cultural standpoint. That's why I say that you're here to distract from the white boys ass beating on the subject that he started.
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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"The sistrum was first sued by the Kemetyu's in the ancient Nile Valley. The sistrum was used in spiritual ceremonies and rites passages and festivals. It is played by shaking the instrument like a rattle believed to invoke spirits. In the ancient Nile it was associated with ritual rites in honor of Auset and Heru"
Why has the Tigrayan poster still not shown any Tigray cultural customs that express Ausarian worship since you are implying that they are the descendants of ancient Kemet. The Oromo and Omo would have these affinities, but not the "Puntite" branch who dwelled in the Eastern desert and Arabian peninsula.
posted
To see much more ancient Egyptian hair, clothing and food culture that was written in ancient Egyptian Amarigna/Tigrigna hieroglyphs, download the free PDF edition of my Amazon book, "The Ethiopian Culture of Ancient Egypt: Hairstyle Fashion Food Recipes and Funerals"...
posted
Bantu is a linguistic arbitrary grouping not a people
-------------------- "Nothing hurts a racist more than the absolute truth and a punch to the face" Posts: 101 | From: United States | Registered: Aug 2020
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posted
The oldest living humans, and thus Africans, are Afar Ethiopians, having a fossil record of 4.4 million years.
This crazy Wilhelm Heinrich Immanuel Bleek who invented the word Bantu, decided for himself who certain African groups of people were. But this idiot lived prior to DNA/genetics. Amazing how he idiotically took it upon himself to define African culture (language is culture), just as other European idiots took it upon themselves to define the borders of today's 150+ African countries.
Even in the defining of African country borders, the primary purpose was to keep the various African ethnic groups within the countries' borders at each other's throats, too preoccupied to be at the throats of the Europeans.
DNA research shows 120,000 years ago, Afar Ethiopians (or their close ancestors) went southward to the southern region of Africa. Then 80,000 years ago, Afar Ethiopians (or their close ancestors) went westward, to the western region of Africa. Finally, they went northward and out of the African continent.
So how did we -- all of a sudden -- arrive at supposedly distinct and separate languages from the Ethiopian language?
Are we to believe that each group invented their own language before leaving Ethiopia or the surrounding region? Invented a completely new language group? How did that happen? What an idiotic idea.
Did the Afar leader stand up and address the throngs of people gathered for the particular journey, shouting...
"Alright, listen up everybody... quiet down. As you know, we're leaving this place today. So before we leave, we need to invent a new language. Anyone with ideas for new words, raise your hand and we'll consider your word."
This did not happen. That's an idiotic idea. They didn't have time to invent a new language. They took language with them.
And then some idiot, Wilhelm Heinrich Immanuel Bleek, a German, whose German language itself is rooted in Ethiopian language -- one of the closest European languages to Amarigna/Tigrigna (download my comparison) -- starts dividing and conquering African people further, by dividing Africans by so-called languages.
Now, all of a sudden, this fool is the father of Bantu language. How can he be father of Bantu, when he doesn't even understand his own German language's relationship back to our earliest known Afar Ethiopian ancestors 4.4 years ago? He is not qualified to classify anything.
According to the Wikipedia article on the subject, this idea for the artificial term, Bantu, for the language families and its speakers is "based on the reconstructed Proto-Bantu term for 'people' or 'humans'". As if other African languages or other languages around the world do not have a related word. Especially since all the world's languages are ultimately related back to the Afar Ethiopian language, just as is our DNA.
The idiot completely missed the fact that the ntu/"some (entity)" root also includes Ethiopian language. Take the included group without the b- prefix...
anthu (Chichewa)
andu (Kamba and Kikuyu)
antu (Meru)
andu (Embu)
Ethiopian language has many related words the idiot could have included, but did not...
ante (አንተ) thee (pron.) (Amarigna)
enat (እናት) ancestor (fem.), mother (n.) Amarigna)
nat (ናት) she is (Amarigna)
And I won't even get into the Tigrigna root of the [N]+[T] combination, from which the [T] is sound change from, even from Tigrigna to Amarigna. Well... maybe I will.
In Amarigna...
enat (እናት) ancestor (fem.), mother (n.) Amarigna)
neT'ele (ነጠለ) detached (adj.) (Amarigna) -- this is the word ancient Egyptians referred to as the Ancestors, otherwise pronounced by Egyptologists as Neter
But the Amarigna neT'ele is actually sound change from the Tigrigna nTS'l
Therefore, with the TS/T/D and TS/Z/S pronunciation relationships, this is how the Tigrigna nsu (ንሱ) "he" became the Amarigna ante (አንተ) "thee", the Tigrigna [S] pronunciation changing to [T] pronunciation in Amarigna.
So, African language originally had the Tigrigna [N]+[S] pronunciation combination...
nsu (ንሱ) he, it (Tigrigna)
nsa (ንሳ) she (Tigrigna)
nsKH'a (ንስኻ) you (m) (Tigrigna)
nsKH'i (ንስኺ) you (f) (Tigrigna)
nsom (ንሶም) they (Tigrigna)
nsen (ንሰን) they (f) (Tigrigna)
nsKH'um (ንስኹም) you (Tigrigna)
nsKH'n (ንስኽን) you (f) (Tigrigna)
And since none of the so-called Bantu languages have an [S], but instead the Amarigna-based [T] sound change, this means that the pronunciation change from the Tigrigna [N]+[S] to the Amarigna [N]+[T] had already occurred prior to either the southward or westward group having left the Ethiopia (or surrounding) region.
In other words, the Amarigna [N]+[T] pronunciation sound change from Tigrigna had already occurred prior to 120,000 years ago.
We see a similar pronunciation sound change in European language between the [T] pronunciation and [S] in European language such as English, where the Tigrigna plural [T] ending became the plural [S] ending in English.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
How did some yte man invent a word already existing and used in various NTU root words by Africans from over 3/8ths of the continent?
And that's what ba Ntu is, an African language grouping, not a people not a mode of metal making not a set of facial features and hair texture.
Step 1. [ I] "The verb ኢዩ is to be used when you are defining a person or object."
iye (እየ) I am
iyu (ኢዩ) he is
iya (ኢያ) she is
Step 2. [ I]+[M] and [ I] +[N] "In English, demonstratives can be distinguished in the number of objects ('this' and 'that' = one; 'these' and 'those' = many) and distance to the speaker ('This' and 'these' = near; 'that' and 'those' = far). Thus they are four main demonstratives."
iyum (ኢዮም) they are
iyn (ኢየን) they are (f)
ina (ኢና) we are
Step 3. [N]+[S] (the beginning [ I] pronunciation is dropped) "Subject pronouns are used to substitute the names of the people or things that perform actions. Instead of saying: 'John grabbed the keys'; you could say: 'he grabbed the keys'. Replacing 'John' (a proper noun) with a pronoun ('he'). In English the subject pronouns are: 'He', 'She', 'They', 'You', 'We', and 'I'; these words are divided by person, number and gender; however there are a few exceptions."
posted
Below we can see how we're all linked around the world to the Tigrigna word, ane (ኣነ) me, I, which is the root to [N]+[S] and [N]+[T]...
[N] (I, me from the Tigrigna word ani/"I, me")...
ane (ኣነ) me, I (Tigrigna)
inae (እኔ) (Amharic)
'ana (أنا) (Arabic)
én - I, me (Hungarian)
ni - me, I (Hausa)
ini - I (Shona)
ni - I (Swahili)
unë - I, me (Albanian)
ni - me, I (Basque)
ine - I, me (Chichewa)
nǐ (你) you (Chinese)
ianao - you (Malagasy)
inu - you (Chichewa)
uena - you (Sesotho)
wena - you (Xhosa)
wena - you- (Zulu)
[M] (pronunciation soundchange from [N])...
Āmi (আমি) (Bengali)
emi - I, me (Yoruba)
mī (मी) I, myself (Marathi)
moi - me, I, us (French)
mi - I (Esperanto)
I, me from the Tigrigna word, men (መን) who...
[M]+[N]...
main - I, me (Hindi)
mən - I, me (Azerbaijani)
mina - I, me, myself (Estonian)
minä - I, me (Finnish)
men (Мен) I (Kazakh)
man (Ман) I (Tajik)
men - I (Turkmen)
men - I, me (Uzbek)
mna - I, me (Xhosa)
mina - I, me (Zulu)
mainn - you (Myanmar - Burmese)
[M]+[M] (pronunciation soundchange from men/"who")...
mama (මම) I (Sinhala)
mimi - I (Swahili)
[N]+[N] (pronunciation soundchange from men/"who")...
Nānu ನಾನು() I (Kannada)
naneun (나는) I, me (Korean)
ñān (ഞാൻ) I (Malayalam)
nāṉ (நான்) I (Tamil)
nēnu (నేను) I (Telugu)
nina - you (Zulu)
nín (您) you (Chinese)
Around the world, we are all connected back to Ethiopia's 4.4 million year history.Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Well, actually no. It belongs here, since language is a part of culture. And the invention of writing allowed particular brand of language to spread or diffuse throughout the ancient world.
So, when looking at language around the world, at least for me, it is difficult to know for sure which words were spread through ancient Egyptian writing and which words were naturally existent from 50,000 to 120,000 years of language soundchange.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
The old division made by Sammi Egyptology for mainstream and reasonable critique & new paradigms Ancient Egypt for what most consider non-mainstream no longer holds.
What you see is what you get until a mod with gumption puts his foot down and separates wheat from chaff AS HIS VISION SO DICTATES
But yes I'm guilty of falling back on the old. As it is now I will not contribute to deshret because I don't want to wake up the next morning to find my contributions edited or deleted for no sensible applicable to everyone criteria.
Other ppl post to Egyptology or Kemet even for "History, Race, Sociocultural discussion, alternative theories" to fend TrollMod alterations or even complete axing. I mean discussion's not free there, it's prissy and subject to unfathomable (i like you/I don't like you) censorship.
Mods like you can post there w/o worry. The rest of us ...
In the end who/how/what does it matter really anyway?
Must add, learning some valid things from both Asante and AncientGebts.
posted
I believe that specific ancient Egyptian words definitely transferred to ancient Greece through ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing. Even if ancient Greece had related words prior to the Egyptian words coming into ancient Greece through writing.
We can see some of this by looking at pronunciation and meanings.
In Tigrigna, meTS'e (መጸ ) means to "come, arrive" while lemeTS'e (ለመጸ) in Tigrigna means to "smear, anoint."
But look what happened in ancient Greek, which I believe is due to ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing. In ancient Greece, metse/"come, arrive" ended up in ancient Greek as moutzoúra (μουτζούρα) meaning "smear,", and not "come, arrive" as it should have.
And in ancient Rome, metse/"come, arrive" ended up meaning "exit" in Latin -- just opposite of what it should. Even in Arabic, metse ended up as musha (مسحة) "smear."
So then, I would say this is from the three adopting ancient Egyptian writing, without fully understanding the meaning.
But, look at the English word meet, though, which is metse. It correctly means "come." Therefore, meet, in English could not have come by way of Latin. It is an example of what was likely in English due to soundchange from metse over the 50,000 years since Africans left African and immigrating to what is now Europe.
In other words, meet in English could not have entered the language through either ancient Greece nor ancient Rome, since the definition of both are incorrect.
And look at German, one of the closest European languages to Ethiopian language. German mit correctly means "with, by, including, at,", although more subdued in meaning. Again, this is likely due to soundchange over 50,000 years and, because the meaning of mit is correct, it is impossible to have come from ancient Rome nor ancient Greece.
Plus, it is interesting that even when compared to the English meet, the German pronunciation mit is closer to the Tigrigna metse than the pronunciation of English meet.
This is just one example.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Here's an additional list from around the world. Where the earlier list showed the noun and pronoun I and me, below are the nouns and pronouns person, you, him and her.
It continues my point that there is no such thing as a Bantu language, as the so-called pattern of sound combinations heard in African language also appears around the world.
Like our DNA, all the world's languages are connected by these pronunciation sounds. And these surviving nouns and pronouns survive around the world, being some of the most basic words in our human language.
It also shows how Africentric language research must extend beyond Africa, just as Eurocentric language research must ultimately extend into Africa. It is racist and deceptive, on the part of either side, when the entire world's language is not considered in comparative language research.
[M]+[N]+[T]...
umuntu - person (Zulu)
umuntu - person (Kinyarwanda)
umntu - person (Xhosa)
munthu - person (Chichewa)
mentsh (מענטש) person (Yiddish)
mmadu - person (Igbo)
[M]+[T]+[M]...
mutum - person (Hausa)
[M]+[N]+[M] and [M]+[N]+[N]...
hominem - person (Latin)
mainn - you (Myanmar - Burmese)
[N]+[T], [M]+[T] and [N]+[D]...
ante (አንተ) you (Amarigna)
'ant (أنت) you) (Arabic)
int - you (Maltese)
anh ta - him (Vietnamese)
häntä - him (Finnish)
motho - person (Sesotho)
mtu - person) (Swahili)
andz (անձ) person (Armenian)
hende - her (Danish)
[N]+[N], [M]+[M] and [N]+[M]...
eniyan - person (Yoruba)
nina - you (Zulu)
Nín (您) you (Chinese)
hänen - her (Finnish)
hann - him (Icelanddic)
onun - her (Azerbaijani)
eniyan - person (Yoruba)
munhu - person (Shona)
honom - him (Swedish)
[N] and [M]...
oun - him (Yoruba)
ona - him (Azerbaijani)
onı (оны) him (Kazakh)
onu - him (Turkish)
ona - her (Basonian)
anı (аны) him (Kyrgyz)
ianao - you (Malagasy)
inu - you (Chichewa)
uena - you (Sesotho)
uni - him (Uzbek)
wena - you (Xhosa)
wena - you- (Zulu)
eena - hiim (Sesotho)
hien - him (Luxembourgish)
hana - her (Islandic)
neya (нея) her (Bulgarian)
nya - her (Indonesian)
yena - him (Xhosa)
yena - him (Yoruba)
yemu (ему) him (Russian)
eum - him (Latin)
im - him (Yiddish)
mu - him (Polish)
mu - him (Croatian)
mu - him (Czech)
[ I]...
iye - him (Shona)
iye - her (Chichewa)
ya - her (Igbo)
ew - her (Kurdish - Kurmanji)
ʻo ia - her (Hawaiian)
ia - him (Samoan)
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Ancient Egyptian: ankhu goat, any small domestic animal Ancient Egyptian: ankht goat Northern Soto-Bantu: NKU = sheep
In this instance, the Northern-Soto-Bantu language Nku is the word which defines a sheep.
Example 9: GOAT Gardiner 459 Faulkner 15
Ancient Egyptian: ib kid Ki-Kamba-Bantu: M-BUI = goat
The Proto-Bantu term budi used for a goat in many Bantu languages may be pronounced differently depending on the ending of the word. A kid is a young goat hence the word for a goat could be a suitable substitute for the word kid. Here are a few Bantu pronunciations: m-bushi, m-buzi, m-buti, m-budzi, pudi. M-bui is the closest match with the Ancient Egyptian word. It is derived from the Ki-Kamba-Bantu language. Note the Ancient Egyptians used the prefix i instead of the Bantu prefix m. Thus it is clear that the Ancient Egyptian word would be pronounced as i-bui instead of m-bui. Compare the prefix i with the prefix for the word for dog, i-waa shown below.
Example 10: DOG Gardiner pg 459 E 14 Faulkner pg 12
Ancient Egyptian: iw Ancient Egyptian: iw Luvale-Bantu: Ka-wa = the dog, ‘the barker’
The word for a dog is derived from the repeated sound, wa,wa,wa made by a barking dog. The Proto-Bantu word for a dog is bua. In the Luvale-Bantu language the root is -wa and the prefixed by ka- to give ka-wa, ‘The barker’, a dog. The form u-wa means the state of being a dog. Clearly the Ancient Egyptian letter i acts as a formative prefix to derive the word i-wa for a dog. Thus the Bantu prefix ka is equivalent to the Ancient Egyptian prefix i. Other Bantu forms of the word for a dog are mb-wa, or emb-wa.
The word for a monkey seems to be derived from the word for tail of a monkey. M-kia means tail and seems to fit in with ideas about a monkey having a long tail. Hence the word 'tail' for a monkey.
Question: How does one pronounce the characteristic high-pitched cry of a cat? Is it a miaw, miaow, or miau? The word for a cat in Southern Africa is synonymous to the cry of a cat and is pronounced with the consonant n instead of the consonant m giving a niau or nyau sound. The Kiswahili-Bantu and Bemba-Bantu word nyau or niau mimics the cry of a cat and is used as the word for a cat. Below are three forms which describe possible pronunciations of the word for a cat. The last set of hieroglyphics consists of the feminine form ending with the consonant -t. If one assumes the form miaow instead of the form niau then the feminine form would be given as miaow-ti.
Ancient Egyptian: miw cat Micat
Bemba-Bantu; Kiswahili-Bantu: The cat = niau (nyau)
posted
The Ewe People who live in West Africa today detail their oral traditions and modern culture of coming from Kemet. Right next to the Akan who also have oral traditions dating back to Kemet. Notice how the Ewe too practice AUSARIAN culture to this day through the celebration of Ausar's backbone/Djed.
The Djed represents balance and stability. It has been interpreted as the backbone of the Egyptian god Osiris , especially in the form Banebdjedet (the ba of the lord of the Djedet) . Djedu is the Egyptian name for Busiris, a centre of the cult of Osiris.
EGYPT: Hèdj / hè dj = WHITE ---- EWE: Hè / Hé=WHITE.
EGYPT: TA / TO = LAND ---EWE: TA /TO =LAND (EXAMPLE 1: APU TA = THE BEACH = LAND NEAR THE OCEAN . EXAMPLE 2 : ETOH TO = BEACH = LAND NEAR A LAKE OR RIVER ).
EGYPT: BA = SOUL ----EWE : BA=SOUL (EXAMPLE : DJO LE "BA" DJI NA M = DON T STAY ON MY SOUL .
EGYPT: KA=SPIRIT ---- EWE : KA = SPIRIT (EXAMPLE : AGBE KA = LIVING SPIRIT=LIFE FORCE (KA ANKH IN ANCIENT EGYPT), AND THE SERPENT WHO REPRESENT THE SPIRIT IN ANCIENT EGYPT IS CALL "KA" IN THE NIGHT BECAUSE IT IS IN THE NIGHT THAT PEOPLE SLEEP AND CONNECT THEIR SPIRITS TO THE DREAM WORLD ).
EGYPT: NOU/NOUOU/NOUT/NUN =THE SKY GODESSE ----EWE : NOU/NOUOU=SKY GODESSE (EXAMPLE 1: M TA NOU = I SWEAR TO GOD = M = I -- TA = SWEAR AND YOU TOUCHE THE GROUND/LAND WITH YOUR FINGER -- NOU =SKY GODESSE AND POINT YOUR FINGER TO THE SKY . EXAMPLE 2: NOU IN THE EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHE IS REPRESENT AS A VASE(MUD) AND IN EWE TO SAY LID (TOP OF A VASE WHO CLOSE IT ) YOU SAY "NOU" TOU=VASE CLOSER . EXEMPLE 3 : NOU/NOUOU IS THE MOTHER OF RA THE SUN IN ANGIENT EGYPT , SHE IS THE ONE BRINGT THE SUN EVERY DAY TO NEW LIFE AND IN EWE TO SAY "THE SUN IS OUT OR IT IS DAY " YOU SAY "NOU KE "= NOU OPEN HERSELF BUT IT MEAN TOO" THE MOUTH IS OPEN " AND IN ANCIENT EGYPT YOU CAN SEE IN SOME TEMPLES HOW RA=SUN IS GOING IN THE MOUTH OF GODESSE NOU/NOUT WHICH REPRESENT THE DEAD OF RA = EVENING THUS TO SAY "MOUTH IS OPEN " MEAN THE REBIRTH OF RA ).
EGYPT: RA = THE SUN GOD ---- EWE: RA=DAY THUS SUN (EXAMPLE : MONDAY = DJO "RA" =DAY OF KODJO , TUESDAY = BLA RA = DAY OF ABLA ECT...ALL SEVEN DAYS HAVE " RA" IN IT IN EWE ).
EGYPT: AKHOU / KHOU = SPIRIT OF THE DEAD ---- EWE: EKHOU/KHOU/KOU = DEATH (EXAMPLE: AKHOU / KHOU IN ANCIENT EGYPT REPRESENT THE DEAD DEAD SPIRITS WHO ARE ALLOWED TO RETURN BACK TO THE SOURCE WHO IS GOD RA=THE SUN AND IN EWE DEATH IS "EKHOU/KHOU " BUT IT MEAN ALL SO PIT (CORE) WHICH IS THE SOURCE THUS GOD AND THE SUN IS CALLED IN EWE DO "KHOU" SSOU =THE INDEPENDANT SOURCE / CORE OF FIRE AND THE EWES DO A CEREMONY FOR DEADS SPIRIT 40 DAYS LATER AFTER THEIR DEATH CALLED LU TU = CONTACT WITH THE LIGHT LIKE IN ANCIENT EGYPT WHERE YOU FIND THE SAME CEREMONY IN THE BOOK OF THE COMIN FORTH IN DAY LIGHT (BOOK OF THE DEAD) THUS EKHOU IN EWE AND ANCIENT EGYPT MEAN " THE JOURNEY BACK THE CORE/SOURCE/GOD/RA/THE SUN THAT S WHY THE PYRAMID (THE GRAVES) HAS THIS FORM WHO ELEVATE FROM EARTH AND COME TO ONE POINT ON THE TOP WHO IS THE SOURCE WHERE TO RETURN TO GOD RA IN HEAVEN , THIS FORM OF THE PYRAMID IS SHOWIN PEOPLE THE JOURNEY OF THE DEAD SPIRIT OF PHAROAH TRAVELLING TO THE SKY TO GO BACK TO THE UNIQUE GOD IN HEAVEN ) .
EGYPT: HOU/HU = VERB/ PRONOUNCED WORD =SOUND ---- EWE : HOU/HU/HOUN = SOUND / DRUM THUS WORDS BECAUSE THE SOUNDS OF A AFRICAN DRUM ARE CONSIDERE BY AFRICAN AS THE WORDS AND VOICE OF THE ANCESTOR/GOD .
EGYPT: SIA = PERCEPTION / IMAGINATION ---- EWE : SIA = PERCEPTION /IMAGINATION ( EXAMPLE PERCEPTION MEAN " SEEN " IN YOUR SPIRIT THUS UNDERSTANDING SO IN EWE IF YOU SAY " SIA " TO SOMEBODY YOU ARE ASK HIM/HER IF HE/SHE SEEN /PERCEIVED OR UNDERSTOOD WELL BECAUSE PERCEPTION COMES FROM THE FRENCH VERB PERCER/PERCU WHO MEAN "TO COME THROUGH " A SECRET THUS UNDERSTANDING SO IF YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO UNDERSTAND/KNOW (WARNING) SOMETHING YOU SAY " SIA " AND SIA MEAN PERCEPTION AND IMAGINATION AT THE SAME TIME IN EWE TOO BECAUSE IF YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO PRAISE ( BLOW ) HIMSELF " MA KPO NOU TCHAN SIA " = I M GOING TO SEE THINGS , WITH A VIEW OF YOUR GREAT LIFE EXPERIENCES COMPARED TO A IGNORAND WHO IS PRAISING HIMSELF " LIKE YOU CAN TEACH ME NOTHING I SEEN TO MUCH THINGS IN MY LIFE " BUT BECAUSE YOU USE THE FUTUR TIME TO CONVERSE THE VERB ( I M "DOING" TO SEE THINGS) MEAN "IMAGINATION " / PERCEPTION BECAUSE PERCEPTION (LIKE THE DICTIONNARYS ARE SAYIN) IS THE PRESENT RELATIF TO THE FUTUR SO YOU ARE IMAGINATE OR SEE THINGS WHO KANN HAPPEN OR HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTUR OR WHO IS HAPPENING ( WAIT(EXPECTATION)) IMAGINATION=TRYIN TO SEE IMAGES WHO YOU NEVER SEEN IN YOUR SPIRIT) . EGYPT: MAAT/MA/MAA= BALANCE / EQUALITY / HARMONY THUS FUSION ECT---- EWE : MAA/MA=EQUALITY/BALANCE / FUSION ( EXAMPLE : IN ANCIENT EGYPT MAAT IS THE NETER OF BALANCE/TRUTH/EQALITY ECT AND HIGHES ATTRIBUT OF GOD AND GOD IN EWE IST CALLED MAA WU/MA WU = THE HIGHES TRUTH/ PRECISION ODER THE MUCH TRUTH ) .
EGYPT: HEQA= MAGIQUE / IS A UNIT OF MEASURE OF THE VOLUMES (4,8 LITERS ---- EWE : HEKA/EKA=MAGIQUE / IS A UNIT OF MEASURE OF THE VOLUMES (40 GRAMME) BY THE EWE IT BEEN USE TO MEASURE FOOD LIKE REIS/MAIS AT THE MARKET .
EGYPT: SOKAR=IS A DEITY ---- EWE : SOKA=DEITY OR A GOD FORCE
EGYPT: KAM/KEM = BLACK / COAL / ACCOMPLISHMENT THUS COMPLETLY ---EWE: KA / KAMI=BLACK /COAL AND KEM MEAN COMPLETLY THUS ACCOMPLISHMENT IN EWE ( EXAMPLE : THE HIEROGLYPHE KAM / K M IN EGYPT IS THE REPRESENTATION OF A COAL THUS BLACK AND IN EWE THE WORD " KA" MEAN SPIRIT BUT COAL TOO AND WE KNOW THAT THE KA= SPIRIT IN ANCIENT EGYPT HAS A BLACK COLOR SO IN EWE KA MEAN COAL AND "KA MI" MEAN SMALL COALS WHICH LOOK LIKE COAL POWDER , "MI" IS THE PLURAL OF "M/Mé" WHO MEAN "ME" OR ONE " PERSON " IN EWE (ONE PERSON IS M/MéAND MANY PERSONS ARE "MI" ) SO WHEN THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS USED THE LETTERS " K M " THUS KAM THEY ARE WRITING KA - MI = LITTLE /SMALL COALS (FRAGMENT FROM THE GREAT COAL ) IN PLURAL WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT EGYPT AS (COLLECTIVE PEOPLE) THE LAND OF BLACK PEOPLE (BLACK NATION ) AND THEY ARE WRITING KA-M / Mé WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT OSIRIS = KAM - WUR OR KEM WUR = THE GREAT BLACK , SO THE BLACK EGYPTIANS CHILDEN OF OSIRIS ARE KA-MI = SMALL COALS OF THE BIG GREAT COAL /BLACK WHO IS OSIRIS AND BEFORE WE FORGET KA MEAN SPIRIT IN ANCIENT EGYPT LIKE IN EWE TOO SO "KA MI" MEAN ALL SO CHILDREN OF THE GREAT BLACK SPIRIT = BLACK HUMANS CHILDREN OF OSIRIS/SON OF GOD BECAUSE WE HAVE A "KA"= SPIRIT AS HUMAN BEINGS . NORMALY IN EWE MANY BIG COALS TOGETHER ARE JUST CALLED KA WITHOUT THE PLURAL FORM SO " KA MI" ARE THE SMALL ONES SO WE CAN SEE THE REASON WHY THEY CALLED OSIRIS GREAT BECAUSE HE IS UNIQUE ( BECAUSE THEY SEEN THEIR GOD AS A PARENT AND BECAUSE THEY ARE ONE WITH THEIR GOD OSIRIS BECAUSE IN THE WORD UNIQUE YOU FIND THE WORD UNIFICATION ) AND WHY THEY CALL THEMSELFS "KA MI = SMALL / CHILDREN OF THE GREAT BLACK SPIRIT " BUT WHY DID THEY USE "K M" HIEROGHYPHES TO SAY "KAMI AND KAM" AT THE SAME TIME WITH NO LETTER CHANGES OR ADDICTION ? 1 . BECAUSE YOU DON T USE JUST A SINGLE COAL TO MAKE FIRE IN AFRICA THAT DON T WORK ( REAL WOOD COAL NOT LIKE THE COAL TODAY IN THE SUPERMARKET ) , 2 . WE SEEN THAT IN EWE MANY BIG COALS ARE JUST CALLED " KA" WITHOUT A PLURAL FORM BECAUSE YOU MUST HAVE MANY OF IT TO MAKE ONE FIRE BUT IF YOU WANT TO SAY "COAL POWDER " YOU SAY KA-MI = LITTLE COALS , SO THE NAME WHICH EGYPTIANS USED TO CALL THEMSELFS LIKE "KA MI WOU " = THE BLACK ONES / THOSE WHO ARE BLACK CAN BE EXPLAIN IN EWE BECAUSE THE EGYPTIANS HIEROGLYPHE WHO IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE "W" IS THE PLURAL FORM OF "THAT/THE ONE " SO IF YOU WANT TO SAY "THE ONE" IN PLURAL WHICH IS "THOSE" YOU SAY "W" =WOU BUT I THINK THE REAL PRONOUNCIATION IS "WO" BECAUSE IN EWE " WO" MEAN TOO " THOSE / THE ONES" SO KAMIWO IN EWE MEAN THE SAME THING LIKE IN ANCIENT EGYPT AND K M T = THE NAME OF EGYPT WILL BE " KA MI TA" = LAND OF THE BLACK PEOPLE IN EWE = ( NATION OF BLACK HUMAN BEINGS / THOSE WHO HAVE A KA BECAUSE THE COLOR OF THE SPIRIT IS BLACK AND THEY HAVE BLACK SKIN BECAUSE THE GREAT SPIRIT WHO OSIRIS IS IS SEND FROM "RA" = THE SUN ON EARTH TO GIVE LIFE / SPIRIT TO THE WORLD AND THE SUN IS FIRE SO OSIRIS / THE GREAT KA = SPIRIT WHO THE SUN SEND ON EARTH IS FIRE / LIGHT SHELF OF THE SUN THUS THE COLOR OF LIGHT SHELF / FIRE / KA IS BLACK BECAUSE WHEN FIRE TOUCH THINGS AND BURN THEM IT TURN BLACK LIKE TAN (SUNBATHE/BRONZED) SO THE SPIRIT = KA /SUN LIGHT SHELF MUST BE BLACK IN THE FIRST PLACE IN THE CORE BECAUSE IT GIVE A BLACK COLOR AFTER TOUCHING / GIVING LIFE ) THUS KA=COAL=BLACK/SPIRIT -- MI=THOSE /PEOPLE=MANY PERSON -- TA = LAND ALL TOGETHER = "LAND OF THE BLACK HUMAN BEING " IN EWE LIKE IN ANCIENT EGYPT .
EGYPT: WUR = GREAT ---EWE: WU = MUCH / INFINITE THUS GREAT ( EXAMPLE : LIKE IN THE NAME MAA WU = GOD IN EWE , MAA WU =THE INFINITE TRUTH/BALANCE /JUSTICE /HARMONY /ACCURACY ETC....
EGYPT: AMEN /MIN = THE HIDED / GOD---- EWE : AMé/AME/Mé= THE SOUL BECAUSE GOD IS THE SOUL AND AMé/Mé MEAN ALL SO "INSIDE" THUS HIDE .
EGYPT : AY = IS A NAME OF A PRIEST IN ANCIENT EGYPT ---- EWE : AYI = IS A NAME BY EWE PEOPLE .
EGYPT : MèRI = IS A NAME FOR THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS LAND WHICH MEAN LOVE----EWE : MèRI =IS A NAME BY EWE PEOPLE .
EGYPT : KHAT= MATERIAL BODY = THE TOUCHABLE ---- EWE : KHAT / KAH = TOUCH THUS IT IS RELATIF TO THE MATERIAL BODY BECAUSE IT IS THANK THE BODY IF WE CAN TOUCH IN FIRST PLACE .
EGYPT: HOR / HERU = FALCON NETER ANGEL SON OF OSIRIS WHICH YOU MUST AS A DEAD SPIRIT BEVOR YOU SEE THE FATHER "OSIRIS" MEISTER IN OF THE ROOM OF THE DEADS OR ROOM OF THE 2 MAAT ---- EWE: HOR = IS A VODOO WHICH YOU CALL IF YOU WANT TO TALK WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE DEADS THUS YOU MUST SEE HIM BEFORE YOU CAN GO TO THE ROOM OF THE DEADS TO TALK WITH THEM LIKE IN ANCIENT EGYPT AND THE NAME "HERU" IN ANCIENT EGYPT IS SAY "HéLU / HELU" IN EWE MAYBE THE "R" TURNED TO "L" WITH THE TIME WHEN WORDS ARE NOT CORRECTLY PRONOUNCED BECAUSE A OTHER HAUS (TRIBE) OF EWE PEOPLE IS CALLED PéRA PEOPLE (LIKE THE NAME OF PHAROAH= PER AA / PERAA) BUT THIS NAME (PéRA) TURN TO "PLA" TO ABBREVIATE THIS NAME AND SOME PEOPLE SAY NOW "PéDA" SO WE CAN SEE THAT THE LETTERS "R" CAN TURN TO "L" IN AFRIKA AND YOU CALL THE NAME HéLU IF YOU WANT TO SAY TO SOMEBODY " GOD IS WATCHING YOU " AND HERU IN ANCIENT EGYPT IS THE NETER/ ANGEL ONE WHO HAS THE ALL WATCHING EYE CALLED OUDJAT .
HOTEP
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Where is the cultural overlap for the Tigray?
Are you asking me if Ethiopians wear braids?
French Europeans try to wear braids, but as far as the technique are you IMPLYING with the picture that the Trigray got it as a result of coming from ancient Kemet?
Posts: 160 | From: Ga | Registered: Jun 2020
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posted
Like Dr. Clyde Winters said these West African populations not only have an oral history going to Kemet, but also to Mesopotamia. This is consistent with other linguistic claims of genetic affinity between Greenburgian "Niger-Congo" and those Middle Eastern languages.
This group also like the Wolof must have stayed in Northeastern Africa until the Muslim invasion of 7th century AD, as the historian recounts issues with Arabs and slavery in the Eastern half of the continent. He details how when the Arabs took over Egypt they migrated south into Sudan, where he said the problem followed. We know that the Sudanese populations of the time had war with and defeated the Arabs, but they still made there way in eventually, which lead to an even further southward migration into Absynnia. From there they went to Western Africa. This migration pattern is almost identical to the one cited on page one about the Akan. The time periods/external pressure from which both groups left Kemet is the only difference.
The Tigray or other Ethio-Semitic peoples do not have that same connection to Kemet.
Ancient Origins There are many different schools of thought about the origin(s) of the Ewe tribe, with a school of thought tracing the origin as far back as an earlier settlement in Adzatome, a suburb founded by Ham, the second son of Noa in the Bible; Noa being the progenitor of various tribes. It is here that we learnt about the Biblical Story of the building of the tower of Babel to enable the people get close to God, see Him and pray to Him, followed by God‟s displeasure and the resultant fall of the tower and dispersion of the people into clusters of people speaking various languages instead of the single one that first united them. This story is credited as being the source of a group speaking one language today known as the Ewe language. Where this occurred is placed in Babylon in present Iraq, and various groups left to find new settlements of their own. Settlement in Egypt Oral tradition claims the Ewe people were led by an ancestor called „Gu‟ under whose leadership they settled at the delta of the river Nile, in present day Egypt. Other ethnic groups also settled in Egypt then, including the Jews forced by draught in their land of Canaan. There were cultural exchanges among the various people, with groups adopting practices of others with whom they lived in close proximity. The acts of circumcision of male children, pouring of libation learnt via the worship of the SUN-GOD, out-dooring of new born babies, widowhood rites, kingship and burial of kings and chiefs with their personal effects some customary practices adopted by the Ewes from the Egyptians and the Jews. They also learnt the composition of long songs from the Jews. Settlement in Sudan When it became difficult living in Egypt, just as the Jews left under the leadership of Moses, the Ewes also left under a leader Mi and migrated in a south-westerly direction that brought them into the Sudan where they made settlement for a while close to present day Khartoum. The stay there was short due to drought, famine and slave raids by Arab slave traders who preferred black slaves to their own kind, due to their physique and courage. At the time, there were numerous schools in and around Khartoum and some Ewes took advantage of these schools to become great scholars, merchants and farmers. Settlement in Ethiopia The Ewe people decided to leave Sudan, and going southeastwards went into „‟Abyssinia‟‟, the present day Ethiopia. However, the slave raids continued here and some members were captured and sold and were sent to as far away as India to serve in the courts of their kings and queens. Settlement between Niger Bend and the Middle Reaches of River Senegal As the people were unable to repel the superior weapons of the Arabs and Indians, they finally decided to move out of Ethiopia too. This time, they moved southwestwards into the region between the bend of river Niger and the middle reaches of the river Senegal. All these movements occurred between AD 500 and 1200. Oral tradition has it that they made significant contributions to the rise of the old Ghana Empire, whose capital then was Walata, near Timbuktu. The old Ghana Empire declined and was replaced by the Mali Empire, led by a powerful king: Mari Djata whose state insignia was the Lion which the Ewes call „Dzata‟ and by deduction, the name of the Emperor is said to mean in Ewe ”Amea ɖi Dzata”. The Mali Empire lasted until AD 1513, disintegrating after the death of its powerful ruler Mari Djata, and due to internal and external forces, many sub-ethnic and cultural groups departed from the area, rather than stay to serve under the new overlords, the Songhai, who conquered the old Mali Empire. Whilst residing at the Niger Bend they contributed to the emergence of all three Empires of Ghana, Songhai and Mali. Settlements in Nigeria, Dahomey and Togo After the break-up of the last of these empires and by following the Niger River south-eastwards, the ancestors of the Ewes moved into the present day Nigeria, at the height of the Oyo Empire, settled briefly at Ile Ife in Yoruba-land (Osun State of Nigeria), but moved on at the fall of the Oyo Empire, and going westward, they entered Dahomey (present-day Republic of Benin). It was in Ile-Ife that they revived and perfected the art of divination (afa kaka), which their ancestors abandoned in Mesopotamia. They also settled in Ketu, a Yoruba town in modern day Benin. Ketu is also called Amedzorpe or Mawupe in the accounts. The Yoruba people founded Ketu by the fourteenth century at the latest. Settlements in the Kingdom of Tado At Dahomey they split into three groups. The first group settled at the bank of the Mono River and named that place Tado (Tando or A‟Tando), which became a powerful kingdom and the historical capital. Settlements in the City State of Notsie The second group moved on to settle between the Mono and the Haho Rivers. This settlement became Notsie, in present day Republic of Togo. The third group settled at what then was Adele country where they established the nucleus of what later became the Kingdom of Dahomey, but then called Dogbo-Nyigbo. Some members from this group moved out later to join those already settled at Notsie and in this new settlement, the earlier settlers referred to them as „Dogboawo‟ due to their earlier association with the settlement at Dogbo-Nyigbo. Note that Dogbo is a town between Agbome and Tado. The migrants who left Tado followed a path of a hunter by the name Afotse or Ndetsi, or the ancestor Noin or Da, depending on the version told. All migrants were given a portion of Notsie by their hosts to settle on, to be by themselves. Thus there were various settlements of the Ewe people at Notsie, and they were all semi-autonomous with their own leaders. According to some accounts, at its greatest height, the city of Notsie consisted of thirty-six neighborhoods. The Dogbo quarter therefore had its own leader, same as other Ewe groups. The several and separate quarters were all however ruled by one great King of Notsie. Some of these leaders and Kings were: Adela Blebua, Tsamla, Adela Dzawoe, Ekpe, Adelatorble, Agor and Agorkorli. Some of the original seven quarters are: Tegbe, Tako, Ekli, Agbaladome, Anakpe, and Adime; and the deserted spaces are called Wotsegbeme, Soujafeme, Gbedekordzi, the market place and Azakordzi.
posted
Let's say it's true, that certain West Africans migrated from ancient Egypt. Why didn't they bring ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing with them?
Since most ancient Egyptians could not write, I could see common ancient Egyptians migrating to anywhere in the world, including West Africa.
But the ruling-class that could read and write, that's different and maybe those who migrated to West Africa were not the ruling-class, and therefore would not have necessarily brought writing with them to West Africa.
Also, that leaves out many of the artists and crafts people, many of who could read and write.
It seems that ordinary people would be left. Again, they could have migrated anywhere without taking writing with them, which they would not have been adept at.
So they were ordinary people and that's why ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing is not present in West Africa. That would make 100% sense.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: [QB] Let's say it's true, that certain West Africans migrated from ancient Egypt. Why didn't they bring ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic writing with them?
If I'm not mistaken, Rain King thinks that groups like the Akan are not just people who received Egyptian migrants, that they are those migrants
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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If the claim is that West African, Central African and Southern African languages are all reflected in the hieroglyphic language, then it sounds as if the implication is that only 2000 years ago, all of these three regions of Africa were suddenly populated by ancient Egyptians, during some exodus.
In other words, the claim seems to be West African, Central African and Southern African languages are ancient Egyptian language.
That is different from saying West African, Central African and Southern African languages already had a language that they took to ancient Egypt 5000 years ago, and then 2000 years ago they went back home, leaving their language in the hieroglyphic language.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Assuming that's the case.
If the claim is that West African, Central African and Southern African languages are all reflected in the hieroglyphic language, then it sounds as if the implication is that only 2000 years ago, all of these three regions of Africa were suddenly populated by ancient Egyptians, during some exodus.
In other words, the claim seems to be West African, Central African and Southern African languages are ancient Egyptian language.
That is different from saying West African, Central African and Southern African languages already had a language that they took to ancient Egypt 5000 years ago, and then 2000 years ago they went back home, leaving their language in the hieroglyphic language.
Yes, somebody could claim cultural diffusion but then the question is from what direction
Someone could also claim a variation, that Central Africa was inhabited but West Africa was not or some of it wasn't) and after the fall of dynastic Egypt Egyptian migrants left Egypt, passed through Central Africa and then settled in West Africa. I think this is Rain Kings theory
Posts: 42939 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"Akan people are believed to have migrated to their current location from the Sahara desert and Sahel regions of Africa into the forest region around the 11th century..."
"and many Akans tell their history as it started in the eastern region of Africa as this is where the ethnogenesis of the Akan as we know them today happened."
"Oral traditions of the ruling Abrade (Aduana) clan relate that they originated from ancient Ghana"
"They migrated from the north, they went through Egypt and settled in Nubia (Sudan)"
"Around 500AD (5th century), due to the pressure exerted on Nubia by the Axumite kingdom of Ethiopia, Nubia was shattered, and the Akan people moved west and established small trading kingdoms"
"These kingdoms grew, and around 750AD the Ghana Empire was formed."
"During the Holocene, the Green Sahara underwent the process of becoming a desert and became the Sahara; this occurrence may have contributed to the start of domesticating field crops."
"Akin to the Fertile Crescent of the Near East, the Niger River region of West Africa served as a cradle for field crop domestication and agriculture in Africa."
"Before 5,500 BP, Kordofanian hunters may have traversed from West Africa, along what is now the Wadi Howar, into the Nuba Hills."
"By 400 BC, contact had been made with the Mediterranean civilisations, including that of Carthage, and a regular trade in gold being conducted with the Sahara Berbers, as noted by Herodotus."
But seems they would have simply been traders. In other words, if Diodorus can be believed, Egypt 6000 years ago was desolate of food and people were basically cannibals.
If the Akan, and other West Africans, were able to grow their own food and raise livestock, what would be the purpose of going where there was nothing? And once Egyptians began large-scale farming, then there would have been a reason to travel to Egypt for trade. Otherwise, they would have been better off at home in West Africa, before there was large-scale agriculture in ancient Egypt's Lower Egypt farms.
So, in terms of traders, I can see that. But in terms of ruling founders, I cannot. And since they brought no ruling-class writing back with them, then that seems to keep them in the traders category.
But in terms of being in Egypt, I can see that. I can even see cultural exchange (bringing culture to Egypt and importing culture back to West Africa), that can explain the continued culture of ancient Egypt that is being touted existing in West Africa.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
If West, Central and Southern Africans were in ancient Egypt, and since nobody seemed to bring writing home -- even skilled crafts people -- does that imply foreigners were not allowed to work in the trades associated with writing? That would include artistic painters, carvers and other artists, whose job it was to paint and carve messages on buildings and monuments.
Were only the ruling-class allowed in the trades associated with writing? What else can explain West, Central and Southern Africans, if they were in Egypt, not bringing writing, painting and carving of hieroglyphics back to West, Central and Southern Africa.
In terms of other building trades, such as stone masonry, the architecture of Great Zimbabwe, according to the Wikipedia article...
" Construction on the city began in the 11th century and continued until it was abandoned in the 15th century. The edifices are believed to have been erected by the ancestral Shona". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe
Of course, this is far after the fall of Egypt.
According to the Wikipedia article on the archaeology of West Africa...
"Africa's earliest evidence for domesticated animals comes from the Sahara c. 7000-6000 BCE, and evidence for new cattle herding lifestyles are preserved at both archaeological sites such as Gobero and in Saharan rock art. As the Sahara increased in size due to aridification, early pastoralists migrated south and eastwards into the Niger and Nile valleys, bringing with them herding practices that would also spread throughout eastern and southern Africa. The Savanna Pastoral Neolithic and the Elmenteitan are found in East Africa." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_archaeology
Then West, Central and Southern Africans could have essentially entered Egypt with their own trading currency, in the form of livestock, sales of livestock, breeding and livestock products (meat, milk, etc.). Also, their ability to farm would have provided them a way of producing crops in which to trade in Egypt.
Because of this, potentially they had no reason nor desire to enter the building and construction trades, where certain trades would have afforded them the knowledge of writing they could have transmitted back to regions out of Egypt. Additionally, their ability to pay their own way would have likely made employee work, as well as contract labor, unattractive.
Further explaining their lack of transmitting writing back to West, Central and Southern Africa, would be the amount of time they spend in Egypt. Teaching temporary residents of ancient Egypt was not likely done, as learning to read and write was probably done over too many years.
Even in modern days, we begin learning to read and write at 4 or 5 years old, and are not proficient enough for employment until after several years of college, into our late teens or early 20s. How much more difficult would learning to read and write on a commercial/professional level have been 2500 to 5000 years ago?
And even according to traditional West African education systems, for example, the children were often hired out as apprentices to professional trades people...
"Professions: for example doctors, priests,... civil servants, village heads, chiefs and kings, tax-collectors, heralds, judges, councilors, police and messengers, shrine-keepers, soldiers, etc."
"Vocational training in traditional society is largely run on the apprenticeship system and is a time-honoured device for educating millions of African youths and adults. Usually the children are not trained by their parents but by relatives, master-craftsmen in particular fields or friends in order to ensure discipline and concentration."
"As Archibald Callawy, an authority on the Nigerian appenticeship system, aptly described it: 'This vast apprenticeship training system began as a part of a wider education process in which indigenous societies of Nigeria passed on their cultural heritage from one generation to the next. The skills owned by a family were highly valued, and in some lines such as [natural] medicine, secrets were zealously guarded, as they are indeed today. Evidence of the passing on of skills within families is strong. A Birom blacksmith on the Jos Plateau or a Yoruba one in Ibadan will say that beyond memory... And even an ordinary village will usually show that pottery-making, for example, centres around certain families with the skills taught by a mother to her daughter or niece, or a father to his son or nephew, depending on the customs of the area.'"
From "The History Of Education In Nigeria," by Professor A. Babs Fafunwa, former Professor and Dean of Education of the Faculty of Education of Ife, Nigeria
If ancient Egyptian ruling-class likewise held the arts, trades and crafts within the ruling family, this would further explain how West, Central and Southern Africans could have been in ancient Egypt, yet not brought writing back with them.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
"In trades such as the circumcising of babies, drumming, blacksmithing and weaving, the practices were restricted to certain families. In other words these trades were heredity... However, in the children of the daughters married from these families were given special concessions to practice any of the trades named above. These trades needed a high degree of specialization... It is in these kinds of trades that the apprenticeship system was mostly used."
"... the children were not free to choose the trade of their liking, for they were bound to follow the guidance of their parents. For effective training, parents always apprenticed their children to their relatives, friends or competent craftsmen..."
If true then in ancient Egypt as traditionally in Africa, without a political, family, or social connection to the ruling-class, individuals could not simply take up a writing-related trade, as we can as individuals today.
This then would be part of the West, Central and Southern African culture the West, Central and Southern Africans would have been under in ancient Egypt.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
You know very well the history of Ethiopia/Eritrean writing.
On the other hand, West, Central nor Southern Africa has no descended writing at all from ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. But to have traveled to and returned from ancient Egypt does not require West, Central nor Southern Africans to have returned with any form of ancient Egyptian writing.
Food was important. Not writing. Writing does not make anybody any better than anyone else. Otherwise, if particular portions of ancient Egyptian culture were required to prove having been in ancient Egypt, there are also no chariots anywhere else in Africa.
Similarly of pyramid building. They didn't have to return to West, Central nor Southern Africa building pyramids to prove they were in ancient Egypt.
These acid tests are not a reasonable measurement or proof of having lived in Egypt in ancient times.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
To compare this point in modern times, people come from outside the USA and live here for years -- even generations -- without necessarily adopting the mainstream American culture. It is not a requirement to adopt the culture of the places you visit or live in.
There are even USA-born Americans who cannot read or write. And there are non-USA born Americans who can read and write their own language, but not English.
So it is simply a trap to expect West, Central or Southern Africans who ever lived in or visited ancient Egypt to have adopted the culture there.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Come on Gebts you just said this
Well the truth is, after conducting a little research on the migration history of West Africans this afternoon, I had to revise my thinking.
I no longer expect West, Central or Southern Africans to have adopted any ancient Egyptian culture of any type, in order to prove they were there in ancient times.
Posts: 751 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
I once lived in Washington state, yet when I came back from Washington (1200 miles away), I brought nothing from Washington back with me. Not even a newspaper (i.e., writing). In fact, I brought no evidence of having lived in Washington at all. I don't even believe my credit history shows I lived in Washington.
So how can I expect Africans, or even non-Africans, to have any proof they lived in ancient Egypt. If they lived there, what's the big deal.
West Africans couldn't have lived in ancient Egypt? Everybody else did, including non-Africans.
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posted
If you are saying there was cultural diffusion between Ethiopia/Eritrea and dynastic Egypt in which direction was it coming from and going to?
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