posted
Ok, so I was up in the middle of the night rocking the baby and I got to thinking about women who wear niqab. Just out of curosity does anyone know the answers to the following questions:
* If a woman is wearing niqab and the man comes to see her interested in marriage, does she show her face?
* IF she does show her face - does she only do it if she is interested in him first, otherwise there is no need? I mean if she is considering him as a husband does she then only show her face or how does that work?
* When a woman wearing niqab travels, is her passport with her wearing niqab or not?
* Does a woman who wears niqab wear niqab even around her father in law or brothers in law?
* How does she eat in public?
I've never really paid attention before but for some reason I had these questions recently. Before any of you ask, no I am NOT considering wearing niqab, I am merely curious.
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: 1) If a woman is wearing niqab and the man comes to see her interested in marriage, does she show her face?
2) IF she does show her face - does she only do it if she likes the way he looks first, otherwise there is no need?
3) When a woman wearing niqab travels, is her passport with her wearing niqab or not?
4) Does a woman who wears niqab wear niqab even around her father in law or brothers in law?
5) How does she eat in public?
1) Women in Niqab never show their faces to anyone, not even to their husbands, he has to bang her thru the veil, never knowing what she looks like.
2) See #1.
3) Are you mad?? Women in Niqab are forbidden from travelling.
4) Yes, because there's always a chance some rogue cock could invade her funbox, even by accident. Better safe than sorry.
5) Are you mad?? Women in Niqab are forbidden from eating in public.
Posts: 2404 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: * If a woman is wearing niqab and the man comes to see her interested in marriage, does she show her face?
* IF she does show her face - does she only do it if she is interested in him first, otherwise there is no need? I mean if she is considering him as a husband does she then only show her face or how does that work?
* When a woman wearing niqab travels, is her passport with her wearing niqab or not?
* Does a woman who wears niqab wear niqab even around her father in law or brothers in law?
* How does she eat in public?
From my experience with women wearing niqab, the answers are as follows:
1 and 2. It is a requirement, as mentioned in the hadith, that a man should look at woman he is considering marrying. There are a number of opinions about how much that should or could be, but it seems to be agreed that the minimum he should see is her face and hands. Most women wearing niqab will wait to see if they are interested in the man before they show their face, but I have known of some who prefer to show a photo initially and if things progress, they then show their face later on.
3. It is not allowed to wear a niqab on a passport photo. Those women who do travel wearing niqab are usually asked to go to a curtained off area for a woman to verify that the passport photo is them.
4. Most women wearing niqab will remove it only in front of mahram men, i.e. those they cannot marry. So they would not wear it in front of their father-in-law, but they would with their brothers-in-law.
5. Some women wearing niqab don't eat in public; some chose a quiet corner of a restaurant and remove it, lowering it if a waiter/any other man comes close; others partially lift the niqab up when they want to eat something; and others eat simple food when they go out that isn't covered in sauce and take drinks with straws.
It usually depends on why they wear the niqab or how they understand the that they should live as a Muslim woman as to how much they do or don't restrict their lifestyle.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
Most of the niqab-wearing women I've personally met would take it off at home in my presence but would still leave their hair covered because they considered it haram to show their hair to a non-Muslim woman.
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posted
The women would probably do the same with Muslim women too. Many Muslim women don't take their hijab off when they go to visit anyone or if there are strangers in the house. Sometimes it's a precaution in case a man may come into the room and it saves them having to scramble to find their hijab, other times it just seems more customary, even if there are no men in the house.
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posted
My husband has some cousins who are niqab'd but I was shy to ask them and only one speaks English well enough to understand anyway. I was just curious, thanks for the feedback. BTW, they show hair in front of me when we're all alone, not sure if they would in front of friends or because we're family now. Thanks again.
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posted
Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies (screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way Tafseer Al-Qurtabi) that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."
Surah An-Nur, Verses #30 and #31 ‘And Say to the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)
if there is a gathering indoors with only women present, with no ghair mahrems, then it is permissable to remove the niqab.. The problem with outdoors is that a ghair mahrem has the possibility of turning up,and therefore u would find your self in a difficult situation if the niqab had been removed. so it is permissable indoors of a gathering of just sisters. The other situation is if ones life is at risk, then the lesser of the two evils is taken, but that is only if your life is under threat and is a specific circumstance. You cannot remove it if you fear racial abuse or the possibilty of a threat. i hope the above is clear. You can also check with www.sunnipath.orgsorry this site is under construction BY THE WAY THIS ALSO IS FOR HIJAB TOO .
Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies .
This verse has been discussed on here several dozen times already. Just a comment ... your translation is not correct. The original Arabic verse mentions "cleavages" (juyubihinna) and not "all their bodies".
quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies .
This verse has been discussed on here several dozen times already. Just a comment ... your translation is not correct. The original Arabic verse mentions "cleavages" (juyubihinna) and not "all their bodies".
There is nothing wrong with that translation. It is perfectly acceptable and was written by two well known and respected Scholars Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al Hilali Ph.D. and Dr. Muhammad Mushin Khan printed by Darus Salam.
And no Dalia: The two scholar are not "Free Thinkers" like you and that's why you have a problem with it.
However, The Noble Qur'an translated and printed by Darus Salam is probably on the BEST English translation printed in the world today! With Tafsir from At-Tabaari and Al Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir with comments from Sahih Al Bukhari!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I assume you don't read Arabic, sandhead, otherwise you would know that it does not say "all their bodies" in the verse.
Actually, if I remember correctly, that particular translation even says that "juyubihinna" means "bodies, faces, necks and bosoms" -- this is clearly a distortion of the original Arabic version!
My guess is you're just trying to provoke because I posted a very critical text about that particular translation recently. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: The Noble Qur'an translated and printed by Darus Salam is probably on the BEST English translation printed in the world today!
"...
The most obvious window into the theology taught at Ibn-Saud Islamic University is the Wahhabi Koran, an edition of the Islamic scripture, with commentary, printed in every major European, Asian, and African language in paperback editions that are distributed free or at low cost throughout the world (and are available on the web at www.kuran.gen.tr/html/english3). The fifteenth revised edition of this work was published as The Noble Qur'ân in the English Language by Darussalam Publishers and Distributors in Riyadh in 1996. The translators are Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan, both affiliated with another extremist institution, the Islamic University of Medina, two of whose faculty members are also among the educators being hosted by the State Department.
The Wahhabi Koran is notable in that, while Muslims believe that their sacred text was dictated by God and cannot be altered, the Saudi English version adds to the original so as to change its sense in a radical direction. For example, the opening chapter, or surah, is known as Fatiha, and is recited in Muslim daily prayer and (among non-Wahhabis) as a memorial to the dead. The four final lines of Fatiha read, in a normal rendition of the Arabic original (such as this translation by N.J. Dawood, published by Penguin Books): Guide us to the straight path, / The path of those whom You have favored, / Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, / Nor of those who have gone astray.
The Wahhabi Koran renders these lines: Guide us to the Straight Way. / The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). The Wahhabi Koran prints this translation alongside the Arabic text, which contains no reference to either Jews or Christians.
There is nothing to indicate to the uninformed reader that these interpolations, printed in parentheses, are absent from the Arabic. The reader encountering Islam for the first time, as well as the Muslim already indoctrinated in Wahhabism, is led to believe that the Koran denounces all Jews and Christians, which it does not.
There are, of course, many individuals who are unprepared to read this translation with a critical eye. This is especially true wherever Wahhabis conduct the missionary outreach called dawa--above all in prisons in the United States, Europe, and elsewhere. Indeed, it is to just such readers that this edition is directed. The Wahhabi Koran is also a mainstay of Muslim student groups on campuses throughout the West. ..."
posted
The wahabi Quran is the right translation of the quran based on the authentic Sunna of the prophet. Sunna rejectors want to delude poorly-educated people by their filthy translation.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Ok, so I was up in the middle of the night rocking the baby and I got to thinking about women who wear niqab. Just out of curosity does anyone know the answers to the following questions:
* If a woman is wearing niqab and the man comes to see her interested in marriage, does she show her face?
* IF she does show her face - does she only do it if she is interested in him first, otherwise there is no need? I mean if she is considering him as a husband does she then only show her face or how does that work?
* When a woman wearing niqab travels, is her passport with her wearing niqab or not?
* Does a woman who wears niqab wear niqab even around her father in law or brothers in law?
* How does she eat in public?
I've never really paid attention before but for some reason I had these questions recently. Before any of you ask, no I am NOT considering wearing niqab, I am merely curious.
Here is my reply to your wonderful questions. My wife is a niqabi (masha Allah tabaraka ta'ala) and I can tell you from experience the following answers:
Q: 1 & 2. Newcomer answered this question very well (mashaa Allah). A prospective husband has the right to see his intended. It is recommended. If seeing the face in not enough then what some people do is he will send his mother or sister or a female relative to the women he is intersted in seeing. The since both are women then mother will be able to see more than what the brother is allowed to see and the mother (for example) can verify if there are any physical defects or even any positive characteristics concerning the sister he is interested in seeing. However, niqabis are very cautious as to who will see them and will not most likely show their face unless she is VERY much interested in the intended brother. If she is in the presence of her wali she will be okay with showing her face during the sit-down meeting. This is normal. It also offer a time for both to ask questions and answers of each other about deen and other things.
Q #3: Niqabi photos are not permissible on passports to my knowledge.
Q #4: A niqabi does not wear the niqab around her father-in-law. He can NEVER marry her even if she is divorce from her husband. She will always wear the niqab around her brother-in-law. My brother has never meet my wife face to face. I have never sat with my sister-in-laws face to face either. I know them, have talked with them on the phone briefly but have never physically sat down and had dinner with them etc.
Q#5: A niqabi will eat under her niqab by lifting it up slightly. The same goes for drinking as well. Actually there is nothing really strange about it. You will see them eating popcorn or anything like it's nothing..LOL.
I can only tell you that my wife loves her niqab and will not leave the home without it. Not even to hang clothing outside to dry. She even conceals her eyes as well with the eye netting. When she is outside you can not tell what color she is. What color her hair is. What color her eyes are etc.
My wife's mother is not a niqabi. My wife puts on niqab as her choice NOT mine. I do not force her to do so. She did it before we met and she was (of course) still single.
I hope you will too one day put on niqab. You will see your eman increase for sure.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
The word Bid'ah in Arabic is taken from ‘Al-Bada', that is to create something without precedence. Allah says in the Qur'aan, which translated means: “Badei' (the Originator) of the heavens and the earth.” [Soorah Baqarah (2): 117]
This means that Allah created the heavens and the earth without precedence. He also said: “Say (O Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam): I am not Bid'an (a new thing) among the Messengers.” [Soorah Ahqaf (46): 9]
This means: 'I am not the first of Allah's Prophets to His slaves, many (Prophets) preceded me.’ When it is said that a person has performed a Bid'ah, this means that he has innovated a new thing without precedence.
Bid'ahs in the matters of life, like the new scientific inventions are permissible because originally, what is a matter of life or habit is permissible. The prohibited Bid'ah is to innovate in the religion. This is because the religion is 'Tawqifiyah' which means that religion can only be revealed by Allah and He has completely revealed His religion. Consequently, there is no room for any innovation. As will be manifest and clear from the following text.
Allah Alone has the right to tell us how to worship Him.
Allah says: “Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord (the Qur'aan and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhaamd (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam) and follow not any Auliya (protectors, or helper etc. who order you to associate partners in worship with Allah), besides Him (Allah)…” [Soorah Al-Aa’raf (7): 3]
From the Tafseer (explanation) of this verse, we learn that this verse is a definite statement, explaining the right of Allah Alone; to reveal and command His slaves, the manners of worshipping Him. And how could it be otherwise, when the true meaning of 'Ibaadah' is to worship Allah in the way, which pleases Him, not following one's own desires. As is known from the following verse: "And who is more astray then one who follows his own lust (desires) without the guidance from Allah (revelation)" [Soorah Al-Qasas (28): 50]
In regards to this Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: "I warn you of the newly invented matters (in the religion), and every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in the Hellfire" [An-Nasa'ee]
And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) used to declare at the beginning of his lectures, "….and the best speech is the Speech of Allah, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and the worst of all affairs are the newly invented matters (in the religion)" [Saheeh Muslim]
And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) also commanded us, to reject everything, which has no basis in the religion saying: “Whosoever does an action, which we have not commanded then it must be rejected." [Saheeh Muslim]
"Whosoever introduces into this religion of ours that which is not a part of it then it must be rejected” [Musnad Ahmad]
In this Hadeeth is a clear evidence that every action which is not legislated in the Sharee'ah must be rejected’ [Jaami al-Ulum of ibn Rajab 1/120]
Consequently, every Bid'ah, that is introduced in the religion has to be rejected as for the reason that only Allah and His Messenger (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) have the right to legislate in the Sharee'ah.
The Deen is complete
Allah says in the Qur'aan: "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" [Soorah Maidah (5): 4]
This verse embodies a clear statement that the religion has been completed and so has no need of addition and deletion, and our noble Messenger (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: "There is nothing that Allah ordered you with except that I have ordered you with it, and there is nothing that Allah forbade you from except that I have forbidden you from it" [al-Bayhaqee and others]
And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said, "There is nothing that will take you closer to Paradise but that I have enjoined it upon you, and there is nothing that will take you closer to Hell but that I have warned you from it” [Musnad ash-Shafi'e and others]
So, Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) fulfilled the trust placed upon him by Allah completely, explaining the religion to the people in it's inward and outward form, making clear the lawful from the prohibited, the encouraged from the discouraged, even to the extent that he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) taught us the manners of going to the toilet, the manners of having sex with our partners etc.
Allah also says in His Book, "and We have sent down to you Book (the Qur'aan) as an exposition (explanation) of everything, a guidance, a mercy and a glad tiding for those who have submitted themselves (to Allah).” [Soorah al-Maidah (16): 89]
Hence, Qur'aan contains the explanation of the entire religious principles, tawheed in all it's various categories, even to the extent that it teaches us the manners of sitting in circles, visiting other people’s houses, the correct clothing etc. …
In the light of what has preceded we can now give the formal Sharee'ah definition of bid'ah... "A newly invented way (in beliefs and actions) in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee'ah, by which nearness to Allah is sought, not being supported by any authentic proof, neither in it's foundations nor in the manner in which it is performed." [al-I'tisaam 1/231 of ash-Shaatibee]
Reasons behind the Existence of Bid’ah
(a) IGNORANCE: Whenever people separate from the True Message, knowledge will decrease and ignorance will flourish. The Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) informed us about this adversity when he said: “Whoever lives (long) will witness many differences.” [Abu Dawood]
And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) also said: “Allah does not erase knowledge (from earth) by erasing knowledge from slaves (hearts). Rather, He erases knowledge through the death of scholars. When He leaves (earth) without scholars, people will take the ignorant as leaders (and scholars). They (the ignorant) will be asked and then give fatawah without knowledge. Then, they will be lead, and will lead astray.” [Ahmad]
People of knowledge are those who fight against Bid'ahs. When knowledge and scholars disappear from earth, then Bid'ah will see the light. Bid'ah will then appear and spread.
(b) FOLLOWING ONE'S OWN DESIRES: Whoever shuns the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, and follows his own desires, then pertaining him Allah says: “But if they answer you not (O Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) (i.e. do not believe in your teachings of Islamic Monotheism, nor follow you), then know that they only follow their own lusts. And who is more astray then one who follows his own lust (desires) without the guidance from Allah (revelation)" [Soorah Al-Qasas (28): 50]
“Have you seen him who takes his own desires as his god, and Allah knowing (him as such) left him astray, sealed his hearing and his heart, and put a cover on his sight. Who then will guide him after Allah.” [Soorah Al-Jathiyah (45): 23]
So, following one’s own desires leads one to straying away from the Straight Path and indulging in evil innovation
(c) BLIND FOLLOWING: “When it is said to them: 'Follow peoples opinion blindly prevents one from following the Straight path. Allah said what translated means: “Follow what Allah has sent down.” They say: “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following. Even though their fathers did not understand anything, nor were they guided.” [Soorah al-Baqarah(2): 170]
This is the case today with those who blindly follow a Madh-hab. If they are called to following the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, leaving their traditions, what opposes them, they claim to follow their own Madh-hab, scholars, fathers or grandfathers, which leads them to indulge in many evil affairs known as rituals and traditions, originated from the worst of affairs; Bid’ahs resulting to the final abode in Hellfire.
(d) IMITATING THE KUFFAR: Imitating the Kuffar is what befalls one most in Bid'ahs, because actions of the Kuffar are built only upon corruption and misguidance.
Abu Waqid Al-Laithi (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “We were still new Muslims when we went to the battle of Hunain with the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam). We found that the Mushrikeen had a tree, called ‘That Anwar’, which they revered and on which they hanged their weapons on. When we passed by a similar Sidrah we said: “O Messenger of Allah (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), make for us ‘That Anwar’ as they have.. Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “Allahu Akbar! It is the Sunnan (traditions of the Mushrikeen). You said by He Who has my soul in His Hand, what the children of Israel said to Moses: “Make for us gods as they have gods. He said: 'Verily! You are a people who know not.” [7:138] and he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: You will follow the traditions of those before you (Jews and Christians)” [at-Tirmidhee]
In this hadeeth, we find that imitating the Kuffar (non-believers) is what drove Jews (before them), and some of the companions (radhi allahu anhu), to ask for this ugly matter. They wanted gods to worship and revere other than Allah. This is the case with the majority of Muslims today, imitating the disbelievers, which is an opening to ruthless Bid'ahs in Islam.
Bid’ah is more Beloved to Shaytaan than Sinning Sufyaan ath-Thawree (rahimahullah) said: "Innovations are more beloved to Shaytaan than sin. Since a sin may be repented from but an innovation is not repented” [Sharh Usul I'tiqaad of al-Laalikaa'ee (d.414) no.238]
This is because the innovator believes that he is doing something good and therefore sees no need to repent.
He also said, "…so cling to the original state of affairs" [al-Hilya 6/376] meaning stick to the way of Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) and Companions
Imaam Abu Haneefah (rahimahullah) said, "Stick to the narrations and the way of the salaf, and beware of the newly invented matters for all of it is innovation" [Sawnul Muntaq of as-Suyutee pg.32]
Imaam Maalik (rahimahullah) said, "He, who innovates an innovation in Islam regarding it as something good, has claimed that Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) has betrayed his trust to deliver the message as Allah says: "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion” [Soorah Al-Maidah (5): 4] [al-I'tisaam]
Imaam Ahmad (rahimahullah) said, "The fundamental principles of the sunnah with us are…avoiding innovations and every innovation is misguidance" [Usul as-Sunnah of Imaam Ahmad pg.1]
Bid’ah – Corrupting the Sunnah
We are taught in the revelation that the Sunnah shall become corrupted and this corruption would become the norm (custom), so much so that the people who follow the Sunnah would become as strangers, and those who call to purifying the sunnah would be slandered and reviled (hated).
The Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: "Islam began as something strange, and it shall return as something strange as it began. So (radhi allahu anhu) give glad tidings to the strangers." It was asked, "who are the strangers?" He replied, "Those that purify and correct what the people have corrupted of my sunnah" [Tabaraanee in al-Kabeer [6/202]
And what is this corruption, it is none other than innovation, introducing into the pure religion of Allah, new ways of worshipping Him that He has not taught, blemishing His religion with one’s own whims and desires, something that Allah Himself condemns:
"Or do they have partners with Allah, who have instituted for them a religion which Allah has not allowed.” [Soorah Ash-Shura (42): 21]
The Companion Abdullaah ibn Mas'ud (radhi allahu anhu) laments: “How will it be when the trials overcome you, in which the young grow old and the old grow senile. And the people take the Bid'ah as the sunnah, and when it changes they say: the sunnah has changed. “It was said: When will this be? O Abu Abdur Rahmaan!” He replied: When your speakers are many and your scholars are few, and the wealthy ones are plenty and the trustworthy ones are few." [ad-Daarimee]
How true this statement is today, that the innovations have become so widespread in the religion that the people have taken them to be the Sunnah. And when the true scholar speaks out against these innovations, he is labelled as a 'wahhabi' by the people because to them it seems that he is changing the sunnah. To Allah, we complain of the ignorance of our times!
So, once this topic becomes clear, a truth that none can deny; that all these innovations in the religions are a clear denial of the above mentioned verses and ahaadeeth, for none were done by the Companions (radhi allahu anhu). And in what has preceded is ample evidence for any fair-minded Muslim that all Bid'ah is blameworthy, and in fact a major sin. But unfortunately, the Muslims are in such a state today that the Words of Allah and His Messenger (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) are no longer enough to convince them and certain groups of people have come up with belief that has very frail grounds in the Sunnah. For example, the belief of 'Bid'ah hasanah', i.e. a good Bid'ah, meaning that a scholar can introduce a new action of worship in Islam, which can be considered to be good as long it does not contradict any of the principles of Islam. This belief is completely false and has no basis in the Qur'aan neither in the Sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam).
This issue has been discussed in details, under the title “The Arguments of the Misguided”
Shunning the Bid’ah - Adherence to the Sunnah
The cure for shunning these newly invented matters has been specified in the texts of Qur'aan and the Sunnah: Allah has revealed the religion of Islam unto Prophet Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and made adherence to his way, the cure to misguidance:
“Say… 'And Verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you away from this Path.' [Soorah An'am (6): 153]
Allah also says in the Qur'aan: “Indeed in the Messenger of Allah, you have an excellent example to follow for him, who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much” [ (33): 21]
Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: "I have left behind me two things, if you cling to them you will never go astray. They are the Book of Allah and my Sunnah" [al-Haakim]
And "…and you will live to see great difference, so cling to my sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs after me, even if it be with your teeth" [Bukhare]
Abdullaah ibn Mas'ud (radhi allahu anhu) said: “Follow the sunnah of Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) and do not innovate, for what you have been commanded is enough for you." [Ad-Daarimee]
Hudhayfah bin al-Yaman (radhi allahu anhu) said, "every act of worship that the Companions did not do, do not do it" [Abu Dawood]
The Taabi'ee, the Imaam, az-Zuhree commented, "Clinging to the sunnah is to be saved” as Imaam Maalik (rahimahillah) said, 'like the Ark of Noah', he who embarked upon it was saved, and he who did not was destroyed." [Ad-Daarimee]
Abu Aaliyah said, "Learn Islam, then when you have learned Islam, do not turn away from it to the right or to the left. But be upon the Straight Path and be upon the Sunnah of your Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) and that which his companions were upon…
And beware of these innovations because they cause enmity and hatred amongst you, but stick to the original state of affairs that was there before they divided." [al-Hilya of Abu Nu'aym 2/218]
In these narrations is clear evidence that the way of salvation and safety is to closely follow the Sunnah of our Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and not to deviate from his path, denying the guidance of others, not accepting a corrupted form of the Sunnah.
Allah says: "And whosoever does not contends with the Messenger after guidance has been made clear to him, and follows a way other than the way of the believers, We shall leave in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell, what an evil destination!” [Soorah an-Nisa (4): 115]
Arguments of the Misguided
Know, O noble reader! The saying that some Bid'ahs are good and that not every Bid'ah is a sin, rather some Bid'ahs are good is a clear misguidance. Every example that these misguided bring from the actions of the companions (radhi allahu anhu) to prove their belief of a 'good innovation', is invalid and it just shows their weak understanding of the Sunnah of Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), for all of these examples have a clear basis in the Sharee'ah, or occurred due to necessity, or from ijtihaad. Insha'Allah, we will mention a few of their arguments:
Initially, know that their saying is in opposition to the Hadeeth: “For every Bid'ah is a sin” [Abu Dawood]
The Prophet of Allah (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) clearly stated that all Bid’ahs are sins.
Ibn Rajab says regarding this issue: “The Prophet's (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) saying: “every Bid'ah is a sin” is a unique way of speech that nothing (no Bid'ah) can escape. This is a major rule in this religion. It is similar to Prophet's (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) saying: “Whoever innovates, in this religion of ours, whatever is not of it, is rejected.”
Whoever innovates a matter that has no basis in Islam, and introduced it to the religion, has sinned. The religion disowns whoever does that. This rule applies to all matters of belief, action, and saying, both in public or in secrecy.”
1.When Umar (radhi allahu anhu) was caliph, he collected the Muslims to pray in congregation for taraaweeh prayers and said, "what a good bid'ah this is" [Saheeh Bukhaaree]
Evidence is derived from this for 'bid'ah hasanah' (i.e. Good Bid’ah), but of course they have misunderstood the true intent of Umar (radhi allahu anhu), which can be clearly understood if one were to quote the context of this narration.
When the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) first prayed taraaweeh, the Muslims used to pray taraaweeh individually or in small groups, and then for three nights they prayed in one congregation behind the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and after this he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) stopped them from doing so by saying:
“"I feared that it would become obligatory upon you." So after this again, the Muslims would pray individually or in small groups, and they remained like this throughout the rule of Abu Bakr (radhi allahu anhu) and the beginning of the rule of Umar (radhi allahu anhu). Then Umar (radhi allahu anhu) came to the Mosque and saw the Muslims praying in small groups and so gathered them as one jama'ah to pray behind Ubayy bin Ka'b (radhi allahu anhu) and Tameem ad-Daaree (radhi allahu anhu) and stated the above phrase. [Reported in Bukhaaree, the Muwatta and others]
Firstly: How can the action of Umar (radhi allahu anhu) be considered to be new when the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) did it in his lifetime? Not only this but the Muslims were also in the habit of praying in small groups as well. Hence, the praying of taraaweeh in jamaa'ah was well established in the sunnah and the practice of the Sahaabah (radhi allahu anhu).
Secondly: The Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) gave the reason why he stopped the congregational prayer, for the revelation was still descending, and he feared that praying in obligation might become obligatory upon his nation, and that this might lead to be hard on them.
After the death of Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), the revelation ceased, and this fear was no longer present. Hence, Umar (radhi allahu anhu) re-established the congregation during his rule because he knew his action could not be made obligatory upon the ummah.
Thirdly: All the companions agreed to this action of Umar (radhi allahu anhu), there was a consensus (ijmaa) on this. And the scholars of 'usul' have stated that a consensus cannot occur except when there is a clear text for it in the Sharee'ah.
Fourth: So how do we understand this statement of Umar (radhi allahu anhu), "what a good bid'ah this is" when the action that Umar (radhi allahu anhu) called a bid'ah was done by the Prophet r? Bid'ah here can only be understood in it's linguistic sense and not in it's Sharee'ah sense i.e. when Umar (radhi allahu anhu) said this, he did not mean it in the legal sense that we may understand it today. For how many are the words that mean one thing in the language, but another thing in the Sharee'ah! The linguistic sense is: something new, because praying in one congregation was not present in the rule of Abu Bakr (radhi allahu anhu) and the earlier period of his own rule.
Hence, Abu Yusuf (rahimahullah) said, "I asked Abu Haneefah (rahimahullah) about the taraaweeh and what Umar (radhi allahu anhu) did and he replied, 'the taraaweeh is a stressed sunnah, and Umar (radhi allahu anhu) did not do that from his own opinion, and neither was there in his action any innovation, and he did not enjoin it except that there was a foundation for it with him and authorization from the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam)…" ['Sharh Mukhtaar' as quoted from in 'al-Ibdaa' (pg. 80) of Shaykh Alee Mahfooz]
2.The hadeeth: “Whosoever starts in Islam a good practice (sunnah), he gets the reward of it and the reward of all those, who act on it. And whosoever starts in Islam an evil practice (sunnah), he gets the evil of it and the evil of all those, who act on it." [Saheeh Muslim]
The evidence they derive from this hadeeth is that people can invent new practices in Islam, either good or bad. But were they to take this hadeeth in it's full context then it would not be possible to infer such a thing.
Imaam Muslim(rahimahullah) reported this story from Jareer ibn 'Abdullaah (radhi allahu anhu) who also narrated: "Some people came to Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) wearing woollen garments. He (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) saw that they were in bad shape and in desperate need, so he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) urged the people to give them charity. People were very slow to respond, and it could be seen on his face (that he was upset). Then a man of the Ansaar brought a package of silver, then another came, then after him another and another, and his face was filled with joy. He (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: 'Whoever starts a good thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a reward like that of those who followed him, without detracting it in the least from their reward. Whoever starts a bad thing in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a burden of sin like that of those who followed him, without detracting it in the least from their burden.” [Saheeh Muslim, no. 1017]
Firstly: The word ‘sunnah’ used in the hadeeth must be understood in it's linguistic sense (i.e. practice) not it's sharee'ah sense (i.e. the life example of Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam) because otherwise it would imply that there is something bad in the sunnah.
Secondly: The Companion (radhi allahu anhu) who gave charity, did not do anything new, for giving charity had been legislated from the very early days of Islam as the Makkan surahs prove, rather he was simply implementing a previously legislated matter. So, the statement of the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), 'a good sunnah' was said at a time when the people were reluctant to give charity, so one man gave it and then others followed him - i.e. he renewed a sunnah that was being neglected - this is the meaning of 'good practice' - renewing an existing sunnah.
Hence, we do not stick just to the specific occurrence in the hadeeth, but we generalize it's intent as it's wording is general and as is established in the 'usul'. The intent of this hadeeth is renewing the Sunnah when it has been neglected. This is why the early scholars of Islam included this hadeeth under the chapter ‘The reward of the one who renews the sunnah" [as done by the 4th century Imaam al-Laalikaa'ee in his encyclopedic work detailing the belief of Ahlus Sunnah, 'Sharh Usul I'tiqaad Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah']
Thirdly: The meaning of 'bad sunnah' is to be understood in the similar vein, i.e. the one who renews an evil act, will get it's evil… Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) gave the example of the two sons of Adam (alaihi as-salaam), one killing the other, one who killed got the sin of his action as well the sin of all those who follow hi in killing; without their sins decreasing, an killing had been forbidden from the time of the first Prophet (alahi as-salaam) to the last r
Fourthly: The hadeeth uses the terms 'good' and 'bad', and from what has preceded, it is clear that Islam has already defined in it's totality all that it is good and bad, and if we were to say otherwise, we would then be accusing the religion of incompleteness and deficiency
Some Common Innovations
Imitating the Kuffar nowadays has resulted in many Bid’ah’s. Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “You will follow the ways of those who were before you. (Jews and Christians)”[At-Tirmidhee] Some common Bid'ah today in the Ummah are:
Al-Mawlid - Celebrating the Prophet's (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) birthday The practice of celebrating al-Mawlid (Prophet's birthday) on the 12th day of Rabee' al-Awwal each Hijri year, has no basis in the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, rather this celebration is an imitation of the Christians, resembling their celebration of Prophet Jesus's (alahi as-salaam) birthday, invented in the 4th century of Hijrah through the Shites This practice is known and performed as a sign of one's love for the Messenger of Allah (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam). Although, the Qur'aan has enlightened the issue of loving and establishing the love of the Messenger (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) in a differing way: Allah says: “Say (O Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam): 'If you (really) love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
This verse clarifies the fact that the love of the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) is merely a claim unless the proof of sincerity is exposed, which is to submit and abide to the laws and commands of Allah, revealed to Prophet Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam). In accordance to the above mentioned verse, one who claims to loves the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), then it is for him to obey his (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) commands and follow his (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) Sunnah, for Allah says: “whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain from it” [(59): 7]
And according to the Sunnah of Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), exaggerating his (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) position in calling upon him as is done in these celebrations is not only against his saying but indeed Shirk. Allah says: “ invoke not anyone along with Allah.” [(72): 18]
And he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “Do not exaggerate about me, as the Christians exaggerated about the son of Maryam. I am only a slave, so say “the slave and Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alahi wa-sallm)” [Bukhari]
Celebrating al-Mawlid even if it does not hold calling upon the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) and other sorts of sins; like the mingling of men and women, singing, narrating poems about the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), which contain undeserved praise of the Prophet etc… is an innovation, since this practice as mentioned earlier is not a part of the religion, neither Prophet Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), nor his Companions (radhi allahu anhu) are known to have commemorated this celebration. Rather, when Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) was asked about fasting on Mondays, he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “That is the day on which I was born and the day on which, I was entrusted with the Mission or when I was first given Revelation.” [Saheeh Muslim]
Consequently, one who claims to love the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) and truly thankful to Allah, then according to what has preceded, he must celebrate the birthday of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) as he (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) himself did.
Revering (Tabarruk) from certain places or personal effects Tabarruk means to ask for blessing, by means of which a thing is preserved and protected and increases in goodness. Tabarruk can be asked to Allah Alone, for He is the One who sends down the Barakah and preserves it. Companions (radhi allahu anhu) of Prophet (radhi allahu anhu) used to seek Barakah of Allah by the hairs of Prophet Muhammad (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), and his personal effects. This special status is only for the Prophet and only during his lifetime. After his death, none of his companions (radhi allahu anhu) carried out such practice, to seek Barakah from certain places, people or thing is prohibited and considered Shirk. To believe that Barakah can be reached if one visits or touches certain thing, place or people, or Allah grants Barakah if one visiting some certain thing, place or people is a way to Shirk. From these are hanging, kissing or wearing certain Qur'aanic verses for Barakah, using charms amulets etc..
Bid'ah in Matters of Worship The religion of Islam is 'Tawqifiyah'. No worship can be enacted that has no proof in the religion, as the Prophet (sallallahu alahi wa-sallam) said: “Whoever does what is not of our matter then it is rejected.” [Muslim]
From the many Bid'ah in worship are the following: To converse the Niyyah (intention). It is a very common practice to converse the niyyah in preparation for prayer, like the saying “I intend to pray for Allah such and such rakah…” This act is a Bid'ah, for intention is a matter of the heart and not the tongue and moreover it has no proof from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. Rather, Allah says: “Say: 'Will you inform Allah about your religion? While Allah knows all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth and Allah is all-Aware of everything.” [(49): 16]
A type of Bid'ah in worship is to recite Fatihah in times of celebration or death, hiring people to recite the Qur'aan if death comes to someone, celebrating Israa wa Al-Miraj (ascension of Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam) and Hijrah. Also from these is to perform Umrah specifically in the lunar month of Rajab, Rajab is an ordinary month, there are no special Umrah, prayer or fast in this month, also form these is to specify prayer during the middle night of Sha'baan and to fast during the 15th of this month. Major Bid'ah are building monuments on graves, making graves as mosques, and visiting graves for Baraqah. All these celebrations are not valid in the Shar'iah
And we leave you with the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallhu alahi wa-sallam), "….so he follows my sunnah has been guided, and he who follows the innovations has been destroyed." [Ahmad]
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over theirbodies
The question was raised if the above is a correct translation of the verse. The answer to this specific question is no. There is no mention of "all over their bodies" in the verse. Even if an army of wonderful scholars write volumes upon volumes, the verse still does not say "all over their bodies," period.
Regardless of what the conclusion is about the Islamic dress code, or how strongly one feels about it, you can't put words in God's mouth. It doesn't bode well for a conclusion if this is how people try to substantiate that conclusion. God knows very well how to phrase His verses, thank you.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies .
This verse has been discussed on here several dozen times already. Just a comment ... your translation is not correct. The original Arabic verse mentions "cleavages" (juyubihinna) and not "all their bodies".
I personaly think applys all the same in the end and im not been here to long to know its been talked of before ok .I see if its this way if you choose to cover your head and your and body its your choice in my book never do nothing your not ready of and if your in a room full of family then COVER UP i feel it should apply still my opinion, and if you choose not to wear then its up for debate .In my book dont moan and get on with it.
Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by StickyHairspray: Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59 ‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over theirbodies
The question was raised if the above is a correct translation of the verse. The answer to this specific question is no. There is no mention of "all over their bodies" in the verse. Even if an army of wonderful scholars write volumes upon volumes, the verse still does not say "all over their bodies," period.
Regardless of what the conclusion is about the Islamic dress code, or how strongly one feels about it, you can't put words in God's mouth. It doesn't bode well for a conclusion if this is how people try to substantiate that conclusion. God knows very well how to phrase His verses, thank you.
When i want to die i shall seek you for advice being you have a one to one with him .P.A
Posts: 110 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Oct 2007
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What is the reason for a woman to cover her face?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: Even if an army of wonderful scholars write volumes upon volumes, the verse still does not say "all over their bodies," period.
And even if a army of people (people who are NOT Students of Knowledge who have NEVERED sat down and studied Islaam with a Scholar formally in Islamic University) say that it does not mean "to cover all over thier bodies" it won't change the fact of the actions what and how the sahabiyaat and sahaabah understood the verse.
Here is the my proof from Ibn Abbas (Radiallahu ta'ala anhu) One of the Greatest fuqahaa of the Qur'an and his tafsir of this ayat:
When Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) was asked about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies”
[al-Ahzaab 33:59] –
he covered his face, leaving only one eye showing. This indicates that what was meant by the aayah was covering the face. This was the interpretation of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) of this aayah, as narrated from him by ‘Ubaydah al-Salmaani when he asked him about it.
It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “May Allaah have mercy on the women of the Muhaajireen. When Allaah revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning)
‘and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)…”
[al-Noor 24:31], they tore their aprons and covered their faces with them.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4480)
It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihraam. When they came near, each of us would lower her jilbaab from her head over her face, and when they passed by we would uncover (our faces).” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 1833; Ahmad, 24067
The above shows what was what was understood by those who were with the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wassalaam) when the ayaats came down. They were there to asked the questions directly To the Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)and their actions demonstrate how they understand this ayaat.
Do you Politically Incorrect dispute or disagree with Ibn Abass (RA) and Ayesha (RA) about covering the faces of the Muslimah?
The correct view as indicated by the evidence is that the woman’s face is ‘awrah which must be covered. It is the most tempting part of her body, because what people look at most is the face, so the face is the greatest ‘awrah of a woman. This is in addition to the shar’i evidence which states that it is obligatory to cover the face.
Shaykh Muhammad al-Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The hijaab prescribed in sharee’ah means that a woman should cover everything that it is haraam for her to show, i.e., she should cover that which it is obligatory for her to cover, first and foremost of which is the face, because it is the focus of temptation and desire.
A woman is obliged to cover her face in front of anyone who is not her mahram (blood relative to whom marriage is forbidden). From this we learn that the face is the most essential thing to be covered. There is evidence from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the views of the Sahaabah and the imams and scholars of Islam, which indicates that women are obliged to cover all of their bodies in front of those who are not their mahrams.
Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, 1/ 391, 392)
Those who disagree with covering the face as being fardh bring forth your proof please. Covering the woman's face is as common as wearing shoes. So much so that Allah ordered the woman NOT to cover their faces when in the state of Ihraam.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: You would be amazed how much the eyes say!
What if they're wearing shades
Then they are either saying: "It's a sunny day and I can't see without these" or they are saying, "I choose not to let you see my eyes either. No one has a right to see any part of me that I choose not to let them see." Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: No one has a right to see any part of me that I choose not to let them see.
Hear, hear.
This is the part that is lost on many. They cannot accept the fact that someone chooses to dress in hijab or niqab.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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Most of this site tells the pros and cons of covering the woman's face. I was wondering the reason for doing this I did find the following reason:
quote:The word "haya" is often translated into English as "shyness", but this does not really give a very good idea of its meaning in Arabic. A better, if longer, translation of its meaning might be "keeping private what should be private".
I am asking now: Why should a woman's face be kept private? Why should she conceal her identity?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Most of this site tells the pros and cons of covering the woman's face. I was wondering the reason for doing this I did find the following reason:
quote:The word "haya" is often translated into English as "shyness", but this does not really give a very good idea of its meaning in Arabic. A better, if longer, translation of its meaning might be "keeping private what should be private".
I am asking now: Why should a woman's face be kept private? Why should she conceal her identity?
As I said, the reasons are as many as those that women give for covering their head, if you asked every woman who wears a niqab, she would give you slightly different reasons for why she made the decision. Some do it because they feel that it pleases Allah, others that it is in imitation of the Prophet's wives and they were the best example of Muslim women, others because they interpret the texts to mean that it is a religious obligation, others because they interpret the texts to mean that it is a good things for a Muslim woman to so, others because they feel it is the most modest way to dress, others because they don't like men leering at them, others to not tempt men, others to be valued for their contribution to society and not their physical appearance, others to help them concentrate on religious matters more than worldly matters, others to help them be more modest and conscious of their behaviour...
I could go on, but I think you get the drift.
It's not a case of completely concealing identity, as those who know a woman who wears a niqab can recognize her by the way she walks, her body shape, her shoes, her eyes, the way she holds herself or sits; but it does stop them being public property and letting anyone look at them in a sexual way or judging them for their beauty and looks. This is the way that society often values woman, as can be seen by the ads in the East where they ask for attractive women for positions dealing with the public and in the West where they teach you how to dress and present yourself for work. And how many "ugly" women have you seen in good jobs or in public services or women who do not look the part, even if they may have the right personality and skills to to them? And just wait and see what happens when someone who is not particularly physically attractive posts their photo on ES!
Wearing a niqab makes a statement, "Do not value me by my face, whether I am pretty or not doesn't matter in my relationship with you."
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Wearing a niqab makes a statement, "Do not value me by my face, whether I am pretty or not doesn't matter in my relationship with you."
Then why don't men cover as well? Aren't all of the reasons you give just as valid for a man?
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posted
No, because there is no indication in the religious texts that men should cover their faces, and men aren't judged by society for their looks in the same way as women are.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
I know that Covering face is ranging between favorable ( sunna Ibadah) and Fard ( compulsory Ibadah). Bid'ah is an innovative thing concerning religion and Niqab was done by the prophet wives. It is certainly not innovative.
Posts: 338 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: No, because there is no indication in the religious texts that men should cover their faces, and men aren't judged by society for their looks in the same way as women are.
Granted, I can understand the mentioning of it in religious text as a reason but it does raise the question once again as to why it is in the religious text for the woman to cover her face and not the man.
As far as men not being judged by society for their appearance, are you quite certain about this? Do you think that race or obesity or even a tall man vs a short is not an obstacle for a man in society? Do you not think that men are judged by these things? Come on, be realistic.
Surly you are not implying that a woman fully covered has more opportunities because no one can tell if she is ugly or not; are you?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:why it is in the religious text for the woman to cover her face and not the man.
I think that is due to the fact that girls' bodies and face are more exciting than boys'. It is also said in the religion texts for men to not shave their face but only cut the moustaches. Posts: 338 | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
Ditto!
You forgot to mention hands. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: No, because there is no indication in the religious texts that men should cover their faces, and men aren't judged by society for their looks in the same way as women are.
Granted, I can understand the mentioning of it in religious text as a reason but it does raise the question once again as to why it is in the religious text for the woman to cover her face and not the man.
I believe that you have read many of the justifications for that in all those articles I gave you the link for. And Islam isn't alone as a religion that refers to women covering more of their body than men.
quote:As far as men not being judged by society for their appearance, are you quite certain about this? Do you think that race or obesity or even a tall man vs a short is not an obstacle for a man in society? Do you not think that men are judged by these things? Come on, be realistic.
Did I say that? No, I said that they are not judged in the same way as women. Visual judgement of women is different from that of men, even if you don't want it to be.
quote:Surly you are not implying that a woman fully covered has more opportunities because no one can tell if she is ugly or not; are you?
I mentioned "ugly" women just to make a point about visual judgement of women.
I guess it depends how you define "opportunties" whether wearing a niqab would give you more of them or not. If you are referring to opportunities in terms of work, most women who choose to wear a niqab aren't looking for a wide range of work opportunities as, if they want to work, they have their own criteria of what sort of work would suit their chosen way of life.
However, if they do find work in an environment they feel happy with, they gain the opportunity to work without harrassment or being eyed-up by male colleagues, to work without distraction from office-based gossip about the latest scandals and which fashions they should be wearing, they are often given priority for seats on public transport, treated respectfully by those around them, and helped to maintain their religious beliefs and practices. Although these may not seem important to you, they can be to a working woman who wears niqab.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
Sister I surely hope that you were joking about the above statement. I believe that you are married and I am sure that your husband would not like you publically make those kinds of statements "If" they are in fact true, and the same can be said even if they weren't true. People here already have a views about Islaam and Muslim men and Muslim women that are not pleasant and we should not be adding fuel to the fire. Wa Allahu Alim.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
I believe that FGM is the male solution to cure this problem of women lusting after them . Go figure, in the west men want you to lust after them in these countries men want to punish you for it. As I see it, women have to cover up because arab men cannot seem to control their urges so it becomes our responsiblity. However, men can walk around anyway they see fit and women are either expected to not have those urges or they have been butchered to not feel them- All because of ignorance.. They would seriously have to kill me before I would wear one of those things Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
I believe that FGM is the male solution to cure this problem of women lusting after them . Go figure, in the west men want you to lust after them in these countries men want to punish you for it. As I see it, women have to cover up because arab men cannot seem to control their urges so it becomes our responsiblity. However, men can walk around anyway they see fit and women are either expected to not have those urges or they have been butchered to not feel them- All because of ignorance.. They would seriously have to kill me before I would wear one of those things
It is obvious (walhamdulillah) that your views are COMPLETELY different from Islaam. Just because someone is Arab doesn't give him the license to represent Islaam. However, it is unfortunate that SOME Arabs do misrepresent their religion.
Again there is a huge difference today between Culture, Race, Nationalaity and Islaam.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
With a name like Smuckers , you are mistaken. A man body or face is generally not so appealing as the female body or face. That can be proved by countless facts. A man can be attracted to all female body with no exceptions.
Posts: 338 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
Sister I surely hope that you were joking about the above statement. I believe that you are married and I am sure that your husband would not like you publically make those kinds of statements "If" they are in fact true, and the same can be said even if they weren't true. People here already have a views about Islaam and Muslim men and Muslim women that are not pleasant and we should not be adding fuel to the fire. Wa Allahu Alim.
That's kind of you to care about my marriage and husbands' feelings...I have, in fact, made this statement before in front of him and others and it was (as is this discussion) merely for discussion/argument sake. We cannot deny that women have eyes and sexual needs/thoughts the same as men. Why is it only the men who are protected against seeing it? At mecca the men go around wearing less than is normally allowed, do you not think women look at the muscles and/or curves or their arms/shoulders/chest? Of course we do! We are tempted as much as anybody. I will be the first to say that I think men would cheat or have a sexual relationship out of wedlock based on sight and women based on feeling, but that still doesn't stop the women from looking and thinking. It's difficult enough for us to avoid other things haram in this life without having to be thinking, 'wow he looks very nice and masculine, ohhh oops, once more about the kaaba'. (ok that was more for drama). My point is that we have eyes and we think just as much as the men do, it's just that few will really admit it. Somewhere we were told to believe it is only the men who have impure thoughts..humph.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
The degree of sexual desire should be taken into consideration. A woman if even saw a naked guy will not be affected as a male will be.
Posts: 338 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: I disagree, I find the male face much more appealing, then again I'm not lesbian. I always wondered the same thing, why is the male figure considered so much less desirable? To whom? I don't gawk and stare at a woman the way I would a man, and believe me there is plenty about a man's legs that get my attention the same as with his arms/chest/shoulders, etc. God help me when I visit Mecca.
I believe that FGM is the male solution to cure this problem of women lusting after them . Go figure, in the west men want you to lust after them in these countries men want to punish you for it. As I see it, women have to cover up because arab men cannot seem to control their urges so it becomes our responsiblity. However, men can walk around anyway they see fit and women are either expected to not have those urges or they have been butchered to not feel them- All because of ignorance.. They would seriously have to kill me before I would wear one of those things
It is obvious (walhamdulillah) that your views are COMPLETELY different from Islaam. Just because someone is Arab doesn't give him the license to represent Islaam. However, it is unfortunate that SOME Arabs do misrepresent their religion.
Again there is a huge difference today between Culture, Race, Nationalaity and Islaam.
Sure I agree with this^.Of course my views are not the same as islam, I am not muslim. Actually I find it to be only insecure shitheads would beat their wives, only self-important ignorant scum of the earth would want their wives and daughters to lose part of their womenhood and cover them and hide them like property.
I should have clarified this that I am talking about these kind of men, cause I know many kind loving muslim men that would rather kill themselves than to hurt the woman that they love-my SH being one of them.
Women have the same rights as a man, sands.You argue frequently about the hijab in islam, and yes this is your right to do. However, I dont see this as a mans right of decision. This is personal to a woman. The niquab does nothing to hide a woman, it makes her stand out more!The whole problem is countries like saudi arabia Require woman to do this- religion is a personal choice and men shouldnt be allowed to make this decision for them nor ridicule or degrade them when they chose not to wear it.
Posts: 1121 | From: Too crazy to look at a freakin map to find out.. | Registered: Sep 2006
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