posted
A Muslim man may have upto 4 wives. However, you will be amazed at how many concubines he is allowed to have.
Q: Do you know how many concubines a Muslim man is allowed to have?
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"Breaking the chains of slavery of mind is far more difficult than breaking the chains made of iron."
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Sands,I know what rape is, but please give me your definition of rape. Isn't forcing oneself on a woman captured in war rape?
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"You have to understand that many people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."
posted
Q: Do you know how many concubines a Muslim man is allowed to have?
None
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So far all of you are wrong with the partial exception of "Undercover". Captives of war are considered as concubines.
So how many can a Muslim man have?
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: So far all of you are wrong with the partial exception of "Undercover". Captives of war are considered as concubines.
What does rape, then, have to do with these religious conflicts? Unfortunately, everything. The Islamic legal manual ‘Umdat al-Salik, which carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, stipulates: “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” Why? So that they are free to become the concubines of their captors. The Qur’an permits Muslim men to have intercourse with their wives and their slave girls: “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves” (Sura 4:23-24).
After one successful battle, Muhammad tells his men, “Go and take any slave girl.” He took one for himself also. After the notorious massacre of the Jewish Qurayzah tribe, he did it again. According to his earliest biographer, Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad “went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for [the men of Banu Qurayza] and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.” After killing “600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900,” the Prophet of Islam took one of the widows he had just made, Rayhana bint Amr, as another concubine.
Emerging victorious in another battle, according to a generally accepted Islamic tradition, Muhammad’s men present him with an ethical question: “We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl [coitus interruptus] with them.” Muhammad told them: “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.’” When Muhammad says “it is better that you should not do it,” he’s referring to coitus interruptus, not to raping their captives. He takes that for granted.
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: So far all of you are wrong with the partial exception of "Undercover". Captives of war are considered as concubines.
posted
Question: Suppose a war breaks out and many people are taken prisoners. So can they be kept as slaves?
Answer: The answer to this question is 'No'.
One aspect, which clearly goes against making slaves of prisoners are the prevalent international laws and treaties, which are agreed upon by all Muslim as well as non-Muslims nations of the contemporary world. These laws and treaties have considerably changed the status of the prisoners of wars as well as any territory that is conquered during such aggression. No Muslim country remaining faithful to its international contracts and agreements can make slaves of its prisoners of wars, just as other nations cannot make slaves of the citizens of an Islamic state.
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Question: Suppose a war breaks out and many people are taken prisoners. So can they be kept as slaves?
Answer: The answer to this question is 'No'.
One aspect, which clearly goes against making slaves of prisoners are the prevalent international laws and treaties, which are agreed upon by all Muslim as well as non-Muslims nations of the contemporary world. These laws and treaties have considerably changed the status of the prisoners of wars as well as any territory that is conquered during such aggression. No Muslim country remaining faithful to its international contracts and agreements can make slaves of its prisoners of wars, just as other nations cannot make slaves of the citizens of an Islamic state.
Come on Undercover..you know the sandman don't believe in these kinds of treaties manmade laws that contradict ALLAH's laws.
It is common knowledge that countries lie all the time..take torture for example..the USA does it in the dark but on paper the Geneva convention they say they don't do it.
So trust me those little paper treaties that are against the Allah's laws are good for toilet paper.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The Qur’an permits Muslim men to have intercourse with their wives and their slave girls: “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves” (Sura 4:23-24).
I also suggest we shred the Quran.This book must have been written by Joooz. Slavery, concubines, floggings? Islam is a merciful religion. It never teaches those things that are in the Quran!
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: His real name is Samuel Sandanyahu.
I don't believe it. I am sure he changed his name to sound more Muslim after converting to Islam. Isn't that right, SITS??
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Sands is a joo trying to make Islam look bad. His real name is Samuel Sandanyahu.
It took me a while, but now I think I have to agree with this
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posted
During the time the Quran started to be revealed the majority had slaves and concubines. Islam brought new laws on how to treat those slaves, to treat them as a 'brother', as one of you.
Islam couldnt do away with slavery in one night (or verse) so it gave laws in how to treat them and to free them also.
It would have been disaster to free all slaves in one go as they would starve to death. Slaves became 'workers' or 'servants' and were given rights. Including rights to freedom.
Islam is against slavery and Alhamdulillah it is now almost none existant in the world, although not completely.
No Muslim of today should 'own' slaves. It is not of Islam.
Anyone trying to keep Islam in the dark ages, like sands, has an agenda which is not of Quran and not of Islam.
Allah gave Muslim men of the time an allowance of up to 4 wives, but also said one is better for you. Most men have gone into a fuzzy daze after reading you can have 4 and the part about one being better for you does not get into thier brain cell after this.
Islam allows NO concubines.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman, whether he has a wife or wives or he is not married.
A slave woman with whom a man has intercourse is known as a sariyyah (concubine) from the word sirr, which means marriage.
This is indicated by the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and this was done by the Prophets. Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) took Haajar as a concubine and she bore him Ismaa’eel (may peace be upon them all).
Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also did that, as did the Sahaabah (companions), the righteous and the scholars. The scholars are unanimously agreed on that and it is not permissible for anyone to regard it as haraam or to forbid it. Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner who is going against the consensus of the scholars.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” [al-Nisa’ 4:3]
What is meant by “or (slaves) that your right hands possess” is slave women whom you own.
The responses are handled by Sheikh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid, using only authentic, scholarly sources based on the Quran and sunnah, and other reliable contemporary scholarly opinions. References are provided where appropriate in the responses.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: The responses are handled by Sheikh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid
... who also says that female captives of war can be treated as slaves, i.e., owned or distributed or given as presents, and that it is ok to have sex with them, even if the *slave* or the wife objects.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: During the time the Quran started to be revealed the majority had slaves and concubines. Islam brought new laws on how to treat those slaves, to treat them as a 'brother', as one of you.
Islam couldnt do away with slavery in one night (or verse) so it gave laws in how to treat them and to free them also.
It would have been disaster to free all slaves in one go as they would starve to death. Slaves became 'workers' or 'servants' and were given rights. Including rights to freedom.
Islam is against slavery and Alhamdulillah it is now almost none existant in the world, although not completely.
No Muslim of today should 'own' slaves. It is not of Islam.
Anyone trying to keep Islam in the dark ages, like sands, has an agenda which is not of Quran and not of Islam.
Allah gave Muslim men of the time an allowance of up to 4 wives, but also said one is better for you. Most men have gone into a fuzzy daze after reading you can have 4 and the part about one being better for you does not get into thier brain cell after this.
Islam allows NO concubines.
I have to ask where is your proof from Quran that there is not such than as mink yameen (what your right hand possess)?
I will use your logical that the above verse in not abrograted. So bring forth the proof/adaleel/evidence to say that having captive of wars is no longer valid please.
Ayisha wrote:
quote:Islam couldnt do away with slavery in one night (or verse) so it gave laws in how to treat them and to free them also.
And after 23 of preaching Islam and after Allah said that today I have peferected your religion, completed my favor on you and choosen Islaam as your way of life..when did Allah say Slavery is abolished in the Quran before that..again please show us.
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: So far all of you are wrong with the partial exception of "Undercover". Captives of war are considered as concubines.
Why do you like the idea of slaves / concubines? What do you like about the idea of female captives of war being forced to have sex with their "conquerors" against their will? Why does this appeal to you so much?
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-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: So far all of you are wrong with the partial exception of "Undercover". Captives of war are considered as concubines.
Why do you like the idea of slaves / concubines? What do you like about the idea of female captives of war being forced to have sex with their "conquerors" against their will? Why does this appeal to you so much?
Its not a matter if it appeals to me. It is a matter whether is is legistated in the Quran.
I might just need a maid to clean up my house or wash my camels for example..or to cook for my large family.
The point is whether the Quran allows them today in the year of 1428H or not..I want proof from Quran which says that it is not lawful in Islaam...Thank you.
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posted
Does this mean that Islam says if you have a maid you can f*ck her?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Okay, girls, any volunteers out who would like to join SITS' harem??? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Leito: A maid isn't a slave!!!
Tayyib mashi..a slave or better yet minka yameen how's and the minka yameen can clean my house and do the service that a maid does and more!
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Does this mean that Islam says if you have a maid you can f*ck her?
No you can't with the except if she is your minka yameen then you can.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: During the time the Quran started to be revealed the majority had slaves and concubines. Islam brought new laws on how to treat those slaves, to treat them as a 'brother', as one of you.
Islam couldnt do away with slavery in one night (or verse) so it gave laws in how to treat them and to free them also.
It would have been disaster to free all slaves in one go as they would starve to death. Slaves became 'workers' or 'servants' and were given rights. Including rights to freedom.
Islam is against slavery and Alhamdulillah it is now almost none existant in the world, although not completely.
No Muslim of today should 'own' slaves. It is not of Islam.
Anyone trying to keep Islam in the dark ages, like sands, has an agenda which is not of Quran and not of Islam.
Allah gave Muslim men of the time an allowance of up to 4 wives, but also said one is better for you. Most men have gone into a fuzzy daze after reading you can have 4 and the part about one being better for you does not get into thier brain cell after this.
Islam allows NO concubines.
I have to ask where is your proof from Quran that there is not such than as mink yameen (what your right hand possess)?
I will use your logical that the above verse in not abrograted. So bring forth the proof/adaleel/evidence to say that having captive of wars is no longer valid please.
Ayisha wrote:
quote:Islam couldnt do away with slavery in one night (or verse) so it gave laws in how to treat them and to free them also.
And after 23 of preaching Islam and after Allah said that today I have peferected your religion, completed my favor on you and choosen Islaam as your way of life..when did Allah say Slavery is abolished in the Quran before that..again please show us.
Verses that raise the status of slaves to that of equals
002.177 YUSUFALI: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves;
002.221 YUSUFALI: Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.
Freeing slaves
004.092 YUSUFALI: Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave.........
005.089 YUSUFALI: Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom......
058.003 YUSUFALI: But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered,- (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other...........
024.033 YUSUFALI: Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),
There are also many many hadith on the subject that im sure you will find of benefit
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posted
Ayisha give me the ayaat that says slavery is forbidden please.
Also the ayaat(s) that says having minka yameen slave girls/right hand possessions/concubines are forbidden today please.
The ayats keep talking about when a believer does something wrong to free a slave. There must be slaves in order for kifarah (forgiveness) to be given.
Please give the ayat that says it is forbidden for a Muslims to have slaves?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Does this mean that Islam says if you have a maid you can f*ck her?
No you can't with the except if she is your minka yameen then you can.
Why would a man ever marry then? What is the difference in this and sex outside of marriage?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Ayisha give me the ayaat that says slavery is forbidden please.
Also the ayaat(s) that says having minka yameen slave girls/right hand possessions/concubines are forbidden today please.
The ayats keep talking about when a believer does something wrong to free a slave. There must be slaves in order for kifarah (forgiveness) to be given.
Please give the ayat that says it is forbidden for a Muslims to have slaves?
sands dont you understand? Allah makes it clear how to treat the 'slaves' you have already 1400+ years ago and He also makes it clear there are many opportunities to free them as that is more righteous.
I suppose if you dont WANT to be more righteous then you could hang onto the verses as they are and take that as you are allowed slaves. Slave girls, or concubines are the same as any slaves. One does not now days HAVE slaves and it was Islam that helped to do that. Allah tells you to treat them as your brothers, therefore they are not your slaves. Allah allows and encourages you to marry them, therefore they will not be slaves they will be wives of husbands.
If you dont think Islam abolished slavery, or at least started the ball rolling on that, then you know even less about Islam than I thought.
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posted
Quran is a test sands, this is why you should make your own understanding of it. Some will read that they can have 4 wives and stick with that allowance, others will read 'but one is better for you' and understand. Some will read all about slaves and being able to have sex with them as they like, but others will read the real message that we are all equal and chosing what is more righteous is better. Also that you have no right to have sex with those who want to remain chaste. If they are believers they will of course want to remain chaste. Islam does not allow sex outside marriage, if you think Allah is allowing you sex outside marriage with slave girls then you are not treating them equally as believers are you.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I see you can't show a the ayat were haveing a minka yameen is forbideen. Thank you.
BTW there ware many Muslim Populated countries that still have slaves..Mauritina and Sudan there are others but we won't go into that now.
Also Allah allowed and still alllow for a Muslim Man to have sex with his minka yameen so the issue about having sex out of married does not apply to minka yameen.
Last point. Allah says don't force your minka yameen into prostitution did didn't say that you can have sex with your own minka yameen.
Anyway thanks for your incite.
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I might just need a maid to clean up my house or wash my camels for example..or to cook for my large family.
And why does this person have to be a slave? So you feel it would be right if you (aka the *owner*) have sex with her?
Why not pay someone to clean your house and your camels and cook for your family? That way you would not only be treating the person justly who works for you, but would also help them partly or completely supporting their family members!
The same goes if you want to have sex with someone other than your wife. Better be honest about it and pay a prostitute instead of claiming God wants you to have sex with a maid / slave.
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I might just need a maid to clean up my house or wash my camels for example..or to cook for my large family.
And why does this person have to be a slave? So you feel it would be right if you (aka the *owner*) have sex with her?
Why not pay someone to clean your house and your camels and cook for your family? That way you would not only be treating the person justly who works for you, but would also help them partly or completely supporting their family members!
The same goes if you want to have sex with someone other than your wife. Better be honest about it and pay a prostitute instead of claiming God wants you to have sex with a maid / slave.
This is why I don't have to marry her..and if I reach the 4 wife quota then a minka yameen will do just fine and I don't have to offer any mahr:
quote:And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” [al-Nisa’ 4:3]
BTW how was the workout? Did you release some of that build-up tension?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: This is why I don't have to marry her..and if I reach the 4 wife quota then a minka yameen will do just fine and I don't have to offer any mahr:
[QUOTE]And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice” [al-Nisa’ 4:3]
I think it says you can marry them, not just use them Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I see you can't show a the ayat were haveing a minka yameen is forbideen. Thank you.
BTW there ware many Muslim Populated countries that still have slaves..Mauritina and Sudan there are others but we won't go into that now.
Also Allah allowed and still alllow for a Muslim Man to have sex with his minka yameen so the issue about having sex out of married does not apply to minka yameen.
Last point. Allah says don't force your minka yameen into prostitution did didn't say that you can have sex with your own minka yameen.
Anyway thanks for your incite.
thats right sands, you can marry 4 women, have sex with your slaves that your right hand possesses, and that will of course mean male and female slaves wont it? you have to kill every non-believer you come across, be rude and obnoxious to all people because YOU are 'righteously' doing as ordered. what have I missed? Oh yes, beat your wife, blow yourself up as long as you take a few innocents with you....oh but they aren't innocent are they as they are kafr. anything else?
The Quran is a BOOK, in it there is a MESSAGE, some get it some dont, you dont get it as a whole and that is obvious.
now get thee behind me shaytan!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: I see you can't show a the ayat were haveing a minka yameen is forbideen. Thank you.
BTW there ware many Muslim Populated countries that still have slaves..Mauritina and Sudan there are others but we won't go into that now.
Also Allah allowed and still alllow for a Muslim Man to have sex with his minka yameen so the issue about having sex out of married does not apply to minka yameen.
Last point. Allah says don't force your minka yameen into prostitution did didn't say that you can have sex with your own minka yameen.
Anyway thanks for your incite.
thats right sands, you can marry 4 women, have sex with your slaves that your right hand possesses, and that will of course mean male and female slaves wont it? you have to kill every non-believer you come across, be rude and obnoxious to all people because YOU are 'righteously' doing as ordered. what have I missed? Oh yes, beat your wife, blow yourself up as long as you take a few innocents with you....oh but they aren't innocent are they as they are kafr. anything else?
The Quran is a BOOK, in it there is a MESSAGE, some get it some dont, you dont get it as a whole and that is obvious.
now get thee behind me shaytan!
No need to resort to name calling. I don't believe in killing innocent people. Not a fan of suicide boming at all i.e. it is haram in its current form. Not into physical violence with women, nor homosexuality.
But sex with UNLIMITED minka yameen..now that's a whole different story..Allah is truly Ar Rahmanir Raheem.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: BTW how was the workout?
Thank you for asking. I'm very relaxed and in a great mood. It's amazing what a bit of weightlifting can do ... all my muscles feel as if I had a good massage. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: BTW how was the workout?
Thank you for asking. I'm very relaxed and in a great mood. It's amazing what a bit of weightlifting can do ... all my muscles feel as if I had a good massage.
Yes from your last few post since you've been back..you sound relax walhamdulillah..Good glad to hear that Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: This is why I don't have to marry her..and if I reach the 4 wife quota then a minka yameen will do just fine and I don't have to offer any mahr:
And why would you want to marry four wives and have sex with even more?
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: This is why I don't have to marry her..and if I reach the 4 wife quota then a minka yameen will do just fine and I don't have to offer any mahr:
And why would you want to marry four wives and have sex with even more?
It's like weightlifting i.e very relaxing!
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posted
Do women get to have sex with there slaves in Islam too?
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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