No, It is not important to have full knowledge and understanding of the Christian bible. God accepts you where you are.
Personally, I know about the Old Testament but I have studied the New Testament.
You do miss out if you don't read it for yourself. Many/Most Christians never read the Bible fully but just know bits and pieces of it. You get a much clearer picture to study if for yourself.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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The 'hair' thingy did appear in the commentary section of the Saheeh International, and another Wahabi-approved translation I can't recall at this moment
The Hilali-Khan translation. They deliberately mistranslate "juyubihinna" ("their bosoms / cleavages") and insert their interpretations into the translation.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) ... (24:31)
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (33:59)
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I understood the 'covering the bossom bit' without having to refer to my Bukhari or Muslim quite well, but I couldn't find the 'hair' bit anywhere as I consulted my own NJ Dawood and A Yusuf Ali translations. The 'hair' thingy did appear in the commentary section of the Saheeh International, and another Wahabi-approved translation I can't recall at this moment
I also understood the covering the bosom bit perfectly well too, it was when I started reading Tafsir and M Muhsin Khan translation of Quran that covering all but one eye to see with came into it. Hair is NOT mentioned anywhere in Quran and this comes from misusing the word Khimar which is a 'covering' like a tablecloth covers a table completely - so I have been told. The thing is, if Allah says take your tablecloth and cover your bed, is He saying you NEED to have a tablecloth or is He saying the important thing is to cover your BED? The other thing was 'so you will be recognized and not molested' because ALL women wore a head cover (loose) as it was protection from the hot sun, they didnt necessarily cover the bosom though. Even prostitutes, Christians and Jews wore a khimar. If you cover everything but one eye to see with then you are not going to be recognized as anything but a black blob, you could be a man or a woman as has been used in other countries to gain access to rape, rob, or murder.
** Disclaimer: No offense was meant in putting prostitutes in the same sentence as Christians and Jews!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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A couple of points that were brought up in the Saheeh International...
- Arabic terms apparently carry multiple meanings - modern meanings can't be used to interpret the original text; classical use of terms must be used
I do understand that the Qur'an is best read in Arabic, but I also thought that if all these English renditions that had come out were not up to par, then such translations would not have survived the years
I also read somewhere that the original text is missing the verb 'markings' of sorts, and therefore leaving some passages open to mystery, or interpretation
Any thoughts on the above? Thanks again in advance
-------------------- ...'knock on the sky and listen to the sound'...Zen saying Posts: 62 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by MrMoussaka: A couple of points that were brought up in the Saheeh International...
- Arabic terms apparently carry multiple meanings - modern meanings can't be used to interpret the original text; classical use of terms must be used
I do understand that the Qur'an is best read in Arabic, but I also thought that if all these English renditions that had come out were not up to par, then such translations would not have survived the years
I also read somewhere that the original text is missing the verb 'markings' of sorts, and therefore leaving some passages open to mystery, or interpretation
Any thoughts on the above? Thanks again in advance
Yes some Arabic terms do carry multiple meanings in the same way some English terms do and it depends on the sentence and context its used in
Example: Mary made a bow before the king Mary wore a bow in her hair
Not a great example and it is more complex than that, but there is a good example of one Arabic word which describes the foetus.
Ayn-Lam-Qaf = to adhere to, hang, love, leech, have an attachment, cling, hold fast, pertain, catch, concern, become attached by love, suspend, fasten a thing, cleave, clot of blood, germ-cell, fertilised female ovum. alqun/ilqun - precious thing. alaqatun - true love, attachment. ilaqatun - love, affection.
alaqah n.f. (pl. alaq) 22:5, 23:14, 23:14, 40:67, 75:38, 96:2
allaqa vb. (2) pcple. pass. f. mu'allaqatun 4:129
The word means something hanging, a clot of blood, something suspended etc etc Alaqah is mentioned in the above verses regarding the foetus but mu'allaqatum is the verse it tells men not to leave a woman 'hanging' as in waiting.
The original text had no diacrital markings at all and no chapter or verse numbers either, which throws out the 'mathematical miracle of Code 19' Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I have read the Quran several times when I am on break from uni or work. I asked a saudi friend what the exact translation of the 'khimar' was and even SHE said that it said nothing about hair, face, eyes ect; it DID mention bosom. I have been praying and do not cover my hair but dress as I always have, modestly but appropriately. I do not try to attract attention to myself but neither do I hide away. Many of the hadith are absurd and childish so I refuse to associate them wit my faith. Declaring someone 'not muslim' or 'ignorant' is expressly forbidden in the Quran and so is backbiting. Ayisha and Dalia have been poite but firm, some others on this thread have been needlessly insulting and offensive. I am genuinely looking for PROOF that hadith is required and so far haven't found a single shred of evidence for it and LOTS of evidence against. I am sorry if this offends anyone but it is what I have discovered through honest investigation and questioning. Before you attack me I have been going to 'Quran' womens group at my uni and I have spoken to people here about it too.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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sorry for the MANY spelling mistakes in that post, I have just finished exams and my brain is melting!
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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oohh hope the exams went well Stephie! I remember after my Law exam I walked home crying thought I had done awful as couldnt remember cases but only failed by 2 marks If I hadnt felt so bad while IN the exam convinced I failed, I could have done more and made up those 2 marks
I hate exams!
As for the proofs of hadith, I am sure 7seas can help you understand that but you will have to declare yourself and who and what you are before he will speak to you, so dont hold your breath Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I think they went well hopefully, but it didn't help that two were on the same day! This page has helped me 'cause I can get honest opinions. I have noticed that some of my 'sisters' have had the same thoughts as me but would never act on them due to cultural pressures. One of my hijabi friends has told me she doesn't believe any of the hadith stuff and doesn't want to wear hijab but that her family would disown her and she wouldn't be able to make a 'good' marriage if she went with her real beliefs Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: One of my hijabi friends has told me she doesn't believe any of the hadith stuff and doesn't want to wear hijab but that her family would disown her and she wouldn't be able to make a 'good' marriage if she went with her real beliefs
Sadly, there are many born Muslims who decide to not follow hadith but feel they can't tell their families / friends / community about it for fear of being ridiculed, rejected, called kaffirs and so on. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: One of my hijabi friends has told me she doesn't believe any of the hadith stuff and doesn't want to wear hijab but that her family would disown her and she wouldn't be able to make a 'good' marriage if she went with her real beliefs
Sadly, there are many born Muslims who decide to not follow hadith but feel they can't tell their families / friends / community about it for fear of being ridiculed, rejected, called kaffirs and so on.
That sounds so dramatic Dalia.. I have never heard of that.
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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Well, I know many people who have made such experiences. It's not dramatic, it's a simple fact.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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7seas, you have been ignoring my questions.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:
Where did I say I reject the message?
The Qur'an mentions 25 prophets by name. So why don't you ask us to add all of them to the shahada?
Why do you keep repeating questions that have been answered before?
Can you tell me how the Qur'an explains the hadith which says women are deficient in intelligence and religion?
Can you tell us how the Qur'an explains the hadith that says Muhammad stoned a fornicating monkey to death?
Can you tell us how the Qur'an explains the hadith which says a nation being led by a woman will never prosper? Do you think God made a mistake when he told us about the queen of Sheba?
... If you make a statement, you need to be able to back it up with proof, otherwise you lose your credibility. If, as you say, the Qur'an explains ahadeeth, it should be no problem at all for you to answer them.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Well, I know many people who have made such experiences. It's not dramatic, it's a simple fact.
Well, what are you? Are you a muslim or not?
When you answer this simple question I am asking that needs a yes/no answer I can continue answering your questions you have asked upove.
Otherwise, You are not a genuine and you are not credible to state that about muslims.
what an idiotic statement! is she not allowed to know people in this situation because she doesnt want your labels on her?
i dont know why I am wasting time with your type of mentality, your sort never answer questions and claim its everyone else. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by pinkmoon: hijab is an order from God
That's your opinion. I am convinced it's not. [Wink]
Are you a muslima then Dalia ?? [Confused] Or is it just that you are not convinced as an observer ? [Big Grin] [Roll Eyes] ask yourselves why dalia has such probem in answering the most basic question?
why is she desperate to question muslims yet keep her own religion closed?
she is very strange
VERY STRANGE
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2009
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I AM THE ONE QUESTIONING FELLOW MUSLIMS! I started this thread in the attempt to clarify requirements of deen, so far, the only people who have given me straight forward advice based one the Quran are Dalia and Ayisha. Others have either been condescending/insulting, ignored the questions, quoted hadith at me (which is what I am questioning in the first place) or quoting the Quran but ignoring context! 7 started out seeming to want to help but then lost track. Please people, I need answers NOT BICKERING!!!
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: I AM THE ONE QUESTIONING FELLOW MUSLIMS! I started this thread in the attempt to clarify requirements of deen, so far, the only people who have given me straight forward advice based one the Quran are Dalia and Ayisha. Others have either been condescending/insulting, ignored the questions, quoted hadith at me (which is what I am questioning in the first place) or quoting the Quran but ignoring context! 7 started out seeming to want to help but then lost track. Please people, I need answers NOT BICKERING!!!
I don't think I neither insulted people nor ignored the questions here Stephie, I prefered giving up posting, because the only reality for such kind of debates is, people choose believing what they would like to believe (like you and me), noone can change other's opinion..
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: I AM THE ONE QUESTIONING FELLOW MUSLIMS! I started this thread in the attempt to clarify requirements of deen, so far, the only people who have given me straight forward advice based one the Quran are Dalia and Ayisha. Others have either been condescending/insulting, ignored the questions, quoted hadith at me (which is what I am questioning in the first place) or quoting the Quran but ignoring context! 7 started out seeming to want to help but then lost track. Please people, I need answers NOT BICKERING!!!
Stephie, actually The answer to your question Why we follow Hadith.
As A sunni Muslim, I am believer of Quran and I don not deny Sunna/Hadith/Hikma.
You are not obliged to follow All of the stuff in Hadith. Because there are some stuff in Hadith that is not Obligatory but If you do it you get more rewards.
But Don't Reject authentic Hadith If you find difficulty in understanding ask about it those who knows better. and DO your researches and your best to understand.
As for Quran, The more you read it , the more you will understand the message clearly.
But DON'T Reject Any proved Text from the Prophet of Allah.
Sunni Muslim believes in Quran and Hadith to be a source of Islamic knowledge.
We can't reject any proved thing. because basically the core of Islam is that you submit and then work on your belief and improve it by good deeds.
Posts: 173 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2010
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I've read parts of this book before. There is some pretty disturbing stuff in there.
A`ishah (May Allah be pleased with her) narrated that the Prophet (PBUH) said, "There is no emigration after the conquest (of Makkah) but only Jihad [(striving and fighting in the cause of Allah) will continue] and good intention.* So if you are summoned to fight, go forth.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
*. Intention according to An-Nawawi: It means that goodness which ceased to continue by the cessation of emigration can still be obtained by Jihad and by intending accomplishing good deeds.
Commentary. When a country or a region is regarded as Dar-ul-Islam (land of Islam), it is not necessary to migrate from it to some other place. It is, however, obligatory to emigrate from such regions which are Dar-ul-Kufr (land of infidels) and where it is difficult to adhere to Islamic injunctions. It is also evident from this Hadith that when it is not necessary to migrate from one Islamic country to another then it is also not permitted by the Shari`ah to leave an Islamic country to settle permanently in Dar-ul-Kufr only for the reason that the latter has plenty of wealth and social welfare. Unfortunately, Muslims today are afflicted with this disease. The transfer of their capital and talent to Dar-ul-Kufr is indeed very disturbing because on one side these two factors are lending support to the economy of Bilad-ul-Kufr (countries of infidels) and on the other, obscenity and indecency that are common in such countries, are becoming increasingly common among the Muslims too.
Another highly important reason for the prohibition of migration of Muslims to Dar-ul-Kufr is that it goes against the spirit as well as their readiness for Jihad fi sabilillah (striving and fighting in the way of Allah). This spirit and readiness must be kept always alive so that the Muslims may respond at once to the call of Jihad whenever the need for it arises anywhere.
In another narration of Muslim, Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: 'Woman has been created from a rib and will in no way be straightened for you; so if you want to benefit from her, you will benefit from her while crookedness remains in her. If you attempt to straighten her, you will break her, and breaking her is divorcing her".
Commentary: The words (Istawso bi' nisa') mean, take care of your wives. Whatever is the formation of the words of the Hadith, it stresses the importance of kind treatment to wives because woman is not only weaker than man by nature, but also less intelligent. On account of his being more intelligent and having greater patience, man should be more forgiving in his dealing with her. The secret of a pleasant family life lies in this advice of the Prophet (PBUH) with its emphasis on kind treatment to wives.
In another narration: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is above the heaven becomes displeased with her until he (her husband) becomes pleased with her". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
Commentary: This Hadith makes it abundantly clear that obedience of the husband is compulsory on the wife. If, in the absence of any lawful reason, she refuses to obey the orders of her husband, she will be liable to the Wrath and Curse of Allah until she returns to obedience. This Hadith has a stern warning for those women who do not care for the displeasure of their husbands because of their bad temperament, stubbornness and habit of dominating their husbands.
Usamah bin Zaid (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "I am not leaving behind me a more harmful trial for men than women". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
Commentary: According to this Hadith, women and their beauty are the greatest and most disastrous mischief for men. This fact can be easily verified by observation. Men are generally constrained to take to corruption and unfair means of income to fulfill undue demands of their wives. If women learn to lead a simple life, men will not need much to make money through unlawful means. Similarly, it is women who compel men to hold all kinds of meaningless customs and ceremonies on marriage parties and thereby violate Islamic injunctions, and incur more expenses. If women go by the Islamic injunctions, the marriages would become a greater source of happiness and pleasure.
`Aishah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) returned once from a journey, and saw a curtain which I had hung along a platform with some pictures on it. The colour of his face changed. He tore it up and said, "O `Aishah, the most tormented people on the Day of Resurrection are those who contend with Allah in terms of creation.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
Commentary: Here, too, we are told that lapses in religious matters may be resented vehemently. The Shari`ah condemns both the making of human portraits and their decoration in homes and, if displayed as sacred objects, they may be read as polytheistic manifestation. Besides, orthodox `Ulama' and researchers are of the opinion that making or keeping of any type of picture is forbidden and unlawful. The rule equally applies to a hand-made picture and a camera photograph, provided it is that of an animate object. Yet, making or keeping pictures of inanimate objects, both of mineral and vegetable kingdoms, is permissible. However, one is at liberty to get oneself photographed in an unavoidable situation. For instance, photographs are indispensable to passports, identity cards and similar other necessities of modern times in which man is helpless and we can not assert that he is inclined to satisfy his taste or to get himself photographed as a token of permissibility. Indeed, it is the requirement of international law. So, up to this extent he will not be called to account. Yet, he cannot be justified in overstepping this limit.
`Abdullah bin Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "There will be discrimination after my death and there will be other matters that you will disapprove.'' He was asked: "O Messenger of Allah! What do you command us to do when we are encountered with such happenings?'' He answered, "Give what is due from you and supplicate to Allah for your rights.'' [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].
Commentary: There are two aspects of this Hadith. On the one hand, people are advised to put up patiently with the transgressive behaviour of rulers as well as their nepotism or monopolization of all the national resources. On the other hand, rulers are warned to ward off a capricious conduct of life, lest they should face the Wrath of Allah.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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My problem 7 is that none of the hadith HAVE been proven , to use a term from my home country, 'Beyond a reasonable doubt'. I have read extensively and according to history/hadith all of them were compiled well after the death of the Prophet, often by people who had never actually MET him so effectively it is all heresy and rumor (which we are warned against in the Quran). A lot of the hadith have internal inconsistencies(even those by one narrator), so if I add hadith to what is supposed to be a text that is easy to understand/obey then I am effectively committing shirk. This is what I fear and why I am asking all of these questions, hijacking the board to pursue a vendetta against other members does not help answer my questions. I do appreciate the links and non-hadith quotes that are given, because they give me other roads to explore... but please stay on topic and remember that Allah knows best so if you do not agree with someone let Allah decide.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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One more comment on what I quoted above ... I never understood why the hadith about woman being created from a rib has even been classified as sahih when it clearly contradicts the Qur'an, which states that man and woman have been created from a single nafs (4:1). There is no mentioning of women being created from a rib anywhere in the Qur'an.
quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH:
A lot of the hadith have internal inconsistencies(even those by one narrator), so if I add hadith to what is supposed to be a text that is easy to understand/obey then I am effectively committing shirk. This is what I fear
Not sure why you're posting this link, or what it has to do with my posting.
I've read that sort of crap dozens of times. The ship / captain analogy is simply silly and can't be applied to relationships.
Allaah The Exalted, in His Wisdom, has assigned a role for each member of the family so that there would be no arguments concerning who should do what. If a sailboat has two leaders, each will want to follow a path, leading ultimately to chaos and even a crash. In the same manner, how many times have your parents fought over some decision because each had their own point of view and wanted to apply it? This is precisely why it is preferable to have one leader for each household.
Likewise, the justifications the author gives for propagating polygamy are illogical and have nothing whatsoever to do with what the Qur'an says on the issue. But this has been discussed here numerous times ...
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I do recognize the messenger, he who delivered the Quran to us, I have never denied his existence, importance or influence. The only thing that I really question is the crop of rumors and half remembered stories that have been added to the message. It would be as if I asked you about the words/actions of Queen Victoria (or similar monarch/statesman), the only way you could find out is if you went to a book/scholar. If she had refused to allow her actions/words to be recorded then there would be no reliable record of any of that. There is a simple reason why eye-witness evidence is not considered totally reliable, because the memories of people are not totally accurate. If you ask someone about something that happened ten years ago, even if it was VERY important to them, they will be unlikely to be capable of repeating it word for word. If you add personal bias and politics to this mess then it gets even worse. Hadith are fundamentally unreliable as they are hearsay; the Quran is direct from the Prophet, his message, memorized word-for-word with his oversight, in his lifetime, with his blessing, thus it is totally reliable and trustworthy.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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6 It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
posted
Stephie, the collection of Hadith went through a methodology. There are a lot of hadith scholars who can answer your questions about Hadith collection.
Also there are a lot of books to read about it.
Posts: 173 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2010
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But I am NOT disobeying the Messenger, I am following the perfect hadith that HE DIRECTLY narrated, there are no flaws in it, no contradictions and no evil or mistreatment of ANYONE. All people are given rights and protections in the Quran (as long as they do not forfeit them by waging war on the believers) there is no humiliation or arbitrary declarations that this or that is evil based on the words of someone other than the prophet.In the Quran, women are not declared evil, incompetent or weak; they are not told to be slaves, servants or pets of their male relatives. Hadith contain all of the evils that Islam is accused of and all of the contradictions and weaknesses, they seem to be responsible for every conflict that has arisen between Muslims since the Prophet brought the message. Where in the Quran does it say to follow anything other than the Hadith of God(Quran)? It actually says the contrary, that there is no other hadith that are worth following. The more I read the more it becomes clear to me that Hadith are evil that has been tacked onto the Quran. I am sorry if I offend anyone but I do not believe that God would want me to make myself miserable in order to follow him. Giving up my right to think for myself (the TOTAL subjugation to my husband advocated in Hadith) while in the Quran, consultation is the ideal; Locking myself in my home or in a tent with 'one eye visible if necessary', when the Quran states only modesty and respect for oneself and family; extremism in the denial of everything from music to art and laughter (hadith again) when the Quran stresses moderation,understanding and true faith. I will continue to follow the Hadith of the Prophet and his edicts as outlined in the Quran. If I go to hell then that is my fate, Allah knows my heart and intentions, if I go to Heaven, again Allah knows best. I hope that Allah has mercy on everyone who tries their best according to their own understanding and investigation.
Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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7seas, we should be very careful who we take as spiritual advisors. Several of the books / texts you recommend have been written by Salafi scholars. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Let us mention these verses 039.023 YUSUFALI: Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful HADITH in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.
039.027 YUSUFALI: We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.
039.029 YUSUFALI: Allah puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah! but most of them have no knowledge.
039.036 YUSUFALI: Is not Allah enough for his Servant? But they try to frighten thee with other (gods) besides Him! for such as Allah leaves to stray, there can be no guide.
039.041 YUSUFALI: Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.
039.043 YUSUFALI: What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?"
039.045 YUSUFALI: When Allah, the One and Only, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust and horror; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Let us mention these verses 039.023 YUSUFALI: Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful HADITH in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah: He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.
039.027 YUSUFALI: We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.
039.029 YUSUFALI: Allah puts forth a Parable a man belonging to many partners at variance with each other, and a man belonging entirely to one master: are those two equal in comparison? Praise be to Allah! but most of them have no knowledge.
039.036 YUSUFALI: Is not Allah enough for his Servant? But they try to frighten thee with other (gods) besides Him! for such as Allah leaves to stray, there can be no guide.
039.041 YUSUFALI: Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.
039.043 YUSUFALI: What! Do they take for intercessors others besides Allah? Say: "Even if they have no power whatever and no intelligence?"
039.045 YUSUFALI: When Allah, the One and Only, is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are filled with disgust and horror; but when (gods) other than He are mentioned, behold, they are filled with joy!
Ok, I know That Allah send us the most beautiful Hadith and I believe so.What is your point?
Posts: 173 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2010
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Stephie, The way of Islam is not full of flowers.and you should know that.
People will talk about you and make fun on you.
It is in Quran and Hadith 214 Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah." Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!
and The solution is Zekr Allah and asking forgiving "And O my people! Ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn to Him (in repentance): He will send you the skies pouring abundant rain, and add strength to your strength: so turn ye not back in sin!"
posted
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The (Hell) Fire is surrounded by all kinds of desires and passions, while paradise is surrounded by all kinds of disliked undesirable things." (Book #76, Hadith #494)Posts: 173 | From: Egypt | Registered: May 2010
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quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Ok, I know That Allah send us the most beautiful Hadith and I believe so.What is your point?
my point?
What is your point of the verses you posted?
My point is that you keep pushing verses of follow the prophet to claim they mean hadith when it is clear from MY verse that Allah Alone is all you need and the MESSAGE the MESSENGER brought. Allah clearly tells you not to go off in another direction following other than that which He gave you. That is my point. If you have a problem with thet then say so.
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Stephie, The way of Islam is not full of flowers.and you should know that.
7seas, I don't understand what this statement has to do with the points that were being raised here. Could you kindly explain?
And don't you find it insulting to suggest that men are "more intelligent than women", as has been stated in the book you recommended? Where in the Qur'an does it say that? And why does the commentator interpret the hadith about the crooked rib to mean that? Even if we assume for the sake of argument that the hadith is authentic -- it doesn't mention anything about intelligence.
quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The (Hell) Fire is surrounded by all kinds of desires and passions, while paradise is surrounded by all kinds of disliked undesirable things." (Book #76, Hadith #494)
ahh good old Abu huraira
Bukhari Vol.4, Book 055, Hadith # 635.
Narated By Abu Huraira : The Prophet said, "Solomon (the son of) David said, 'Tonight I will sleep with SEVENTY ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for "Allah's Cause.' His companion said, 'If Allah will.' But Solomon did not say so; therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half child." The Prophet further said, "If the Prophet Solomon had said it (i.e. 'If Allah will') he would have begotten children who would have fought in Allah's Cause." Shuaib and Ibn Abi Az-Zinad said, "Ninety (women) is more correct (than seventy)."
so his story then changes
Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 78, Hadith # 634.
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Solomon once said, 'Tonight I will sleep with NINETY women, each of whom will bring forth a (would-be) cavalier who will fight in Allah's Cause." On this, his companion said to him, "Say: Allah willing!" But he did not say Allah willing. Solomon then slept with all the women, but none of them became pregnant but one woman who later delivered a half-man. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if he (Solomon) had said, 'Allah willing' (all his wives would have brought forth boys) and they would have fought in Allah's Cause as cavaliers."
Then, bless his little story book:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 74i: Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Once Solomon, son of David said, '(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah's Cause.' On that a (i.e. if Allah wills) but he did not say, 'Allah willing.' Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. By Him in Whose Hands Muhammad's life is, if he had said, "Allah willing', (he would have begotten sons) all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah's Cause."
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 561: Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Prophet Solomon who had sixty wives, once said, "Tonight I will have sexual relation (sleep) with all my wives so that each of them will become pregnant and bring forth (a boy who will grow into) a cavalier and will fight in Allah's Cause." So he slept with his wives and none of them (conceived and) delivered (a child) except one who brought a half (body) boy (deformed). Allah's Prophet said, "If Solomon had said; 'If Allah Will,' then each of those women would have delivered a (would-be) cavalier to fight in Allah's Cause." (See Hadith No. 74 A, Vol. 4).
could never make his mind up Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: ahh good old Abu huraira
could never make his mind up
65 If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?" 66 Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. 67 The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse. 68 Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
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In the Quran, women are not declared evil, incompetent or weak; they are not told to be slaves, servants or pets of their male relatives.
Exactly. The Qur'an makes it clear that God does not prefer anyone based on gender, skin color etc. But according to hadith, women are lacking in intelligence and reason, are not fit to be leaders of families, companies, or states and should be obedient to the males in their lifes. They don't have the right to refuse sex with their husbands and their entry into paradise depends on whether their husbands are pleased with them or not.
Those contradictions are so glaringly obvious, it never ceases to amaze me how people can believe all this stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH:
Where in the Quran does it say to follow anything other than the Hadith of God(Quran)? It actually says the contrary, that there is no other hadith that are worth following.
Exactly. Which is the point some of us have been trying to make throughout this thread.
quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH:
Giving up my right to think for myself (the TOTAL subjugation to my husband advocated in Hadith) while in the Quran, consultation is the ideal; Locking myself in my home or in a tent with 'one eye visible if necessary', when the Quran states only modesty and respect for oneself and family; extremism in the denial of everything from music to art and laughter (hadith again) when the Quran stresses moderation,understanding and true faith.
Human beings need freedom, art, music and laughter in order to stay psychologically healthy and develop their spirituality. Art and music are gifts from God, it makes me really sad that people believe they should be contrary to faith and that artists will be thrown into hellfire.
quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH:
I am sorry if I offend anyone but I do not believe that God would want me to make myself miserable in order to follow him. I will continue to follow the Hadith of the Prophet and his edicts as outlined in the Quran. If I go to hell then that is my fate, Allah knows my heart and intentions, if I go to Heaven, again Allah knows best.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Human beings need freedom, art, music and laughter in order to stay psychologically healthy and develop their spirituality. Art and music are gifta from God, it makes me really sad that people believe they should be contrary to faith and that artists will be thrown into hellfire.
57 O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts,- and for those who believe, a guidance and a Mercy. 58 Say: "In the bounty of Allah. And in His Mercy,- in that let them rejoice": that is better than the (wealth) they hoard. 59 Say: "See ye what things Allah hath sent down to you for sustenance? Yet ye hold forbidden some things thereof and (some things) lawful." Say: "Hath Allah indeed permitted you, or do ye invent (things) to attribute to Allah." 60 And what think those who invent lies against Allah, of the Day of Judgment? Verily Allah is full of bounty to mankind, but most of them are ungrateful. 61 In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Qur'an,- and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing,- We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record. 62 Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve; 63 Those who believe and (constantly) guard against evil;- 64 For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
Abu Hurayra, came from Yemen in the seventh year of Hijra and converted to Islam. He stayed in the company of the Prophet Muhammed less than two years. He narrated more than 5000 hadiths, actually 5374 hadiths, from this less than two years company, (Compare this with the relatively few hadiths narrated by Aysha, Abu Baker, or Omar, for example, after very long company of the prophet). Most of his narrated hadiths are called the "Aahad" hadiths, i.e. hadiths only witnessed by one person, this one person was Abu Hurayra himself. Some of the Prophets companions (Sahaba) and Aysha, the Prophet's wife, accused him of being a liar, telling lies about the prophets just to make up hadiths and gain some status. Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, the second guided Khalifa threatened Abu Hurayra to send him to exile if he does not stop telling hadiths about Muhammed, he did stop until Omar's assassination then started again. He kept telling hadiths to please the Khalifa of the Muslims then, including the time he lived in the Royal Palace of Mu"aawiyah in Syria. Abu Hurayra told his audience that he is telling them hadiths that if he ever mentioned when Omar was alive, he would be given several lashes.
Abu Jaafar Al Iskafy mentioned that the Khalifa, Mu'aawiyah, chose some of the people, including Abu Hurayra to tell fabricated stories and hadiths about Ali Ibn Abu Talib, the Prophet's cousin, to degrade him. Abu Hurayra lived in Mu'aawiyah's Royal Palace then and served him including serving his political views. He produced some of the hadiths that demean and insult Ali Ibn Abu Talib, and make him in a lower grade to Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, only for the pleasure of Mu"aawiyah.
During Mu'aawiyah's rule, many hadiths, with the help of Abu Hurayra were invented that support the view that the Imam or Khalifa, should be obeyed just like God or the messenger, contradicting the rule of the Quran that all the matters should be democratic by consultation.(Do not forget that Abu Hurayra was living in the Khalifa's Royal Palace at the time.)
Many of the hadiths that were narrated by Abu Hurayra contradict the other hadiths, including his own narrated hadiths and other people's hadiths and contradict the Quran and contradict common sense.
Abu Hurayra narrated hadiths after Kaab Al Ahbar, who was a Jewish convert who tried to explain the Quran by using the corrupted books of the Jews. He produced some of the most outrageous hadiths that is full of contradiction to the Quran, taken from false stories in the Torah.
The Islamic historians told the story of Abu Hurayra after given the governorship of Bahrain, got very rich in two years, so Omar called him back and told him "You, the enemy of Allah, you stole the money of Allah. I made you the Emir of Bahrain when you did not even have a pair of shoes, Where did you get all this money (400,000 Dirham)??" The history indicates that Omar took 10,000 Dirham from him.(Abu Hurayra admitted for only 20,000 Dirham)
Abu Hurayra was the one accused most of fabricating hadiths. Aysha, the Prophet's wife always accused him of telling inaccurate or incomplete stories and of fabricating hadiths that she never heard the prophet saying them. Abu Hurayra is well known for his prejudice against the women and the dogs. He produced some of the most insulting hadiths to Muslim women, and hadiths that call for the killing of the dogs . If we apply the rigid criteria claimed to be used by the Scholars like Bukhary and Moslem, for accepting those who narrated hadiths, Abu Hurayra will be the first one to fail the test and his hadiths will be the first to be counted among the fabrications.
Aysha and Abu Huraira at odds
In the famous book "Taa'oueel Mukhtalaf Alhadith" by Ibn Qutaiba Al-Dinory, the story of Aysha (the Prophet's wife) telling Abu Hurayra; "You tell ahadiths about the prophet Muhammed that we never heard them from him" He answered (as Bukhary reported); "You (Aysha) were busy with your mirror and make up" She (Aysha) answered him; "It is you who were busy with your stomach and hunger. Your hunger kept you busy, you were running after the people in the allies, begging them for food, and they used to avoid you and get away from your way, and finally you would come back and pass out in front of my room and the people think you were crazy and step all over you."
The number of Hadiths collected by Abu Hurayra in comparison to Aysha, Abu Baker, Umar and Ali (Taken from a book entitled Hadith Literature: It's Origin, Development, & Special Features by Muhammed Zubayr Siddiqui) are:
1. Abu Hurayra 5374
4. "Aysha Umm al-Mu"minin 2210
10. Umar Ibn al-Khattab 537
11. Ali Ibn Abi Talib 536
31. Abu Bakr al-Siddiq 142
First number indicates rank ...second number indicates number of Ahadith given.
Compare the numbers of Hadiths given by Abu Baker by that of Abu Hurayra while keeping in mind that Abu Baker accompanied the Prophet for about 23 years, while Abu Hurayra accompanied the Prophet for less than 2 years.
57 O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts,- and for those who believe, a guidance and a Mercy. 58 Say: "In the bounty of Allah. And in His Mercy,- in that let them rejoice": that is better than the (wealth) they hoard. 59 Say: "See ye what things Allah hath sent down to you for sustenance? Yet ye hold forbidden some things thereof and (some things) lawful." Say: "Hath Allah indeed permitted you, or do ye invent (things) to attribute to Allah." 60 And what think those who invent lies against Allah, of the Day of Judgment? Verily Allah is full of bounty to mankind, but most of them are ungrateful. 61 In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Qur'an,- and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing,- We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record. 62 Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve; 63 Those who believe and (constantly) guard against evil;- 64 For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
What do these verses have to do with my statements about music and art? Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say art and music are forbidden. Are you suggesting God forgot to mention it? Remember, He says the Qur'an is complete, easy to understand and contains every detail. God also says that He does not run out of words and did not leave anything out of the book.
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say art and music are forbidden. Are you suggesting God forgot to mention it? Remember, He says the Qur'an is complete, easy to understand and contains every detail. God also says that He does not run out of words and did not leave anything out of the book.
Do you believe in Quran to be complete, easy to understand?
If yes , Show us that what you say below is required for human being in Quran.
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*:, art Human beings need freedom, art, music and laughter in order to stay psychologically healthy and develop their spirituality. Art and music are gifta from God, it makes me really sad that people believe they should be contrary to faith and that artists will be thrown into hellfire.
quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Do you believe in Quran to be complete, easy to understand?
If yes , Show us that what you say below is required for human being in Quran.
7seas, you have ignored all the questions I asked you on this and the previous page. So could you please answer those first? I would really appreciate that, and I'll be happy to give you my opinion on your above questions afterwards.
It's perfectly fine if you post verses, but I did not understand which relation they had to my statements, and I asked you for clarification. I assume you must have seen some significance in regards to the subject, but I fail to see it.
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: ahh good old Abu huraira
could never make his mind up
65 If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?" 66 Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. 67 The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse. 68 Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
what has this got to do with abu huraira not being able to tell the truth or make his mind up?
Look at them, you are a hadithists, do you believe ALL the above? How? they are 4 hadith from the same man about the same thing and each one is different!
The hypocrite is you, I am here defending Gods Book while you are trying to make someone go off in another direction following hadith by men who cant decide on a number of wives! How the hell would abu huraira even KNOW about solomon and how many wives he slept with in one night anyway? he wasnt there!
The evidence against hadith and this man in particular are much that I cannot take ANY word he says as part of ANY religion.
The verses are clear in that we follow ALLAH ONLY through the messages that ALL prophets gave from Allah, NOT some man inventing lies against the prophet 200 years after his death. if you cant see that then you are one of the losers that God made blind.
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what has this got to do with abu huraira not being able to tell the truth or make his mind up?
Look at them, you are a hadithists, do you believe ALL the above? How? they are 4 hadith from the same man about the same thing and each one is different!
Are you making Fun of Sayyedna Abu Huraira the companion of the Prophet.
Actually in Quran, The companions of the prophet are honoured. And you are making fun of People who Allah in Quran has honoured.
Ayisha, you are turning the discussion into a fight.
The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes) and of those who gave them aid, and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well- pleased is Allah with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity.
If you have studied different types of hadiths, Matns, Manat Al hadith, Dalael Al hadith, You cant be asking a question Like that. Hadith/sunna is a deep sceince.
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