posted
Hikma is Sunna of the Prophet. I dont believe we need to discuss this since It is clear. ( but If you dont believe it, consider reading the full Quran one more time)
one hadith to explain a verse in Quran
It is whose who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong,'dhulm'that are(truly) in security for they are on(right) guidance (6:82).
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) understood the word 'dhulm' in its general sense to mean every wrong doing, even if it be little. On this account the verse is regarded as dubious and they said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of us did not involve his faith with obscurity?" He (SAW) said; It is not that. It is only the 'shirk'(3). Have you not heard what Luqman said: Verily Shirk is a very great sin (dhulm) (31:13). The two shaikhs have recorded it with others.
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quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Hikma is Sunna of the Prophet. I dont believe we need to discuss this since It is clear. ( but If you dont believe it, consider reading the full Quran one more time)
I think you should read it all one more time.
So Allah taught Jesus the sunnah of prophet Muhammed? 003.048 YUSUFALI: "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
003.079 YUSUFALI: It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's": on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."
Abraham asked God to teach the sunnah of prophet Muhammed? 002.129 YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
There are more
quote:one hadith to explain a verse in Quran
It is whose who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong,'dhulm'that are(truly) in security for they are on(right) guidance (6:82).
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) understood the word 'dhulm' in its general sense to mean every wrong doing, even if it be little. On this account the verse is regarded as dubious and they said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of us did not involve his faith with obscurity?" He (SAW) said; It is not that. It is only the 'shirk'(3). Have you not heard what Luqman said: Verily Shirk is a very great sin (dhulm) (31:13). The two shaikhs have recorded it with others.
which 2 sheikhs? give reference to this hadith
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quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Hikma is Sunna of the Prophet. I dont believe we need to discuss this since It is clear. ( but If you dont believe it, consider reading the full Quran one more time)
one hadith to explain a verse in Quran
It is whose who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong,'dhulm'that are(truly) in security for they are on(right) guidance (6:82).
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) understood the word 'dhulm' in its general sense to mean every wrong doing, even if it be little. On this account the verse is regarded as dubious and they said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of us did not involve his faith with obscurity?" He (SAW) said; It is not that. It is only the 'shirk'(3). Have you not heard what Luqman said: Verily Shirk is a very great sin (dhulm) (31:13). The two shaikhs have recorded it with others.
If one reads the verse previous to that one its pretty obvious to any with a brain what this one is about, did they really need to have that clarified?
Please provide where this hadith is from and whether it is sahih or not as I cant find it.
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posted
Ayisha, The sunna of the prophet muhammed differs from the sunna of the prophet Jesus of course.
Ayisha,
If you are true believer in Quan ( all the verses) It is clear here in the verse you are ignoring that what the prophet teaches is to be followed and can't be ignored.
44 (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
quote:Originally posted by 7seas: Ayisha, The sunna of the prophet muhammed differs from the sunna of the prophet Jesus of course.
thats what you claim, Allah claims otherwise as its Allah that gave all the prophets the WISDOM and the WISDOM is in Quran and the BOOKS Allah gave the previous prophets. Did Allah also give Moses WISDOM that was added as hadith to Torah which Allah WARNS AGAINST? (changed with their tongues)
quote:Ayisha,
If you are true believer in Quan ( all the verses) It is clear here in the verse you are ignoring that what the prophet teaches is to be followed and can't be ignored.
Oh please dont try that 'if you are a true believer' crap with me. I Am a believer in Quran, ALL verses, thats why I follow no other hadith but that one. You obviously dont believe that Muhammed was to recite the Quran AND THATS ALL HE WAS TO RECITE. You are telling me if I am a believer in Quran I should follow hadith! that makes NO SENSE.
quote:44 (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
he was to recite the message, yes 'explain' if they needed to know what colour cow to sacrifice but everything he was given is in Quran, not in another 10 volumes called hadith that no one is even sure came from him and were not collected till over 200 years after his death and many clearly contradict Quran and in one he himself even says DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING FROM ME BUT QURAN! so which hadith DO you follow?
sorry could not find the source of the hadith in English..
well that doesnt translate to English anything you said
can you give me a hadith number? It appears to be Bukhari, or is it just something some sheikh made up?
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Hikma is Sunna of the Prophet. I dont believe we need to discuss this since It is clear.
( but If you dont believe it, consider reading the full Quran one more time)
I posted this previously, but don't remember where. Anyway ...
I did a root search for ح ك م / ha-ka-ma and came across several verses that use the word حكمة / hekma. I can see that -- if you're intent on doing so -- you might interpret *hekma* as *sunna* in particular verses where it's used in conjunction with Mohammed. However, the word is used throughout the Qur'an, and in some verses it would not make any sense at all to translate it as *hadith* or *sunna*.
It is not possible to replace *hekma* with *the prophet's sunna* in the following verses, for example:
Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
Am yahsudoona alnnasaAAala ma atahumu Allahu min fadlihifaqad atayna ala ibraheema alkitabawaalhikmata waataynahum mulkan AAatheeman [4:54]
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel
By Allah's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not Allah Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But Allah is full of bounty to all the worlds.
We strengthened his kingdom, and gave him wisdom and sound judgment in speech and decision.
Washadadna mulkahu waataynahualhikmata wafasla alkhitabi [38:20] (This is referring to David.)
"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
Thalika natloohu AAalayka mina al-ayatiwaalththikri alhakeemi [3:58]
Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.magic.'
OdAAu ila sabeeli rabbika bialhikmatiwaalmawAAithati alhasanati wajadilhumbiallatee hiya ahsanu inna rabbaka huwa aAAlamubiman dalla AAan sabeelihi wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena [16:125]
Mature wisdom; but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not.
Understanding al-Hikmah is to comprehend much of the essence of Islam. Al-Hikmah is a universal tool that can be applied to any situation or matter to produce sound judgments and sound results. The Holy Qur'an provides supreme guidance to Muslims. Some of the guidance is specific while others are general in nature. Not every detail of life was specifically addressed in the Holy Qur'an or the Sunnah (tradition) of Prophet Muhammad (p). The Qur'an and the Sunnah cannot possibly address every issue with its various circumstance for all times, all people and all places. Today there are many things that did not exist at the time of the Prophet, as will be in the future. Al-Hikmah, in this case, can be used to answer many of the questions and concerns regarding these matters and the religious opinions for them. To fully understand this concept, let us examine the definition of al-Hikmah, and then move on to apply it to a particular case.
Some scholars interpret the word 'hikmah' in verse 2:129 above as the Tradition or Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (p). Imam Shafi'i defines al-Hikmah in this way. Other scholars, such as the great Muslim scholar Ibn al-Qay'im al-Jawziyah explained in his book Madarij al-Salikeen, 'hikmah' can be defined scientifically and practically as follows:
a) Scientific Definition:
– To Know and understand the genuine nature of matters – The knowledge of relating results to causes as relevant to the physical composition – Understanding the function of a matter as relevant to Allah's natural law (qadarun), and revealed law (shar'an).
b) Practical Definition:
– Doing what is required in the right manner, at the right time, and in the right place.
These definitions express Hikmah's powerful and dynamic mechanisms, which can be applied to any matter, at any time, place and circumstance. According to the scientific definition, the religious decision on a matter is implemented after obtaining full knowledge surrounding the matter in question (qadarun), and by understanding the Islamic jurisprudence (shar'an). When a religious decision regarding a matter is not known, the decision can be found by first, obtaining the natural composition and circumstances of the element in question and second, by simply applying the Islamic grand rule, "harm shall not be caused nor inflected," 'la dhrara wa la dherar.'
Translations of the Qur'an are interpretations of the holy book of Islam in languages other than Arabic.
Please don't take me for a fool.
I think it goes without saying that every translation is also an interpretation of sorts since some words have multiple meanings and it depends on the context and the understanding of the translator how he eventually choses to translate a particular word. No need to elaborate on that since it should be clear to any thinking person, or anyone who speaks any other than his / her native language.
However, what Hilali and Khan have been doing is adding interpretations that have nothing to do with the original text at all. We have discussed this on one of the previous pages and in other threads on here before.
Let me repeat a couple of examples:
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) ... 24:31
Every native speaker, everyone who knows Arabic and knows how to use an Arabic dictionary will be able to tell you that juyubihinna means "their bosoms / cleavages". Jayb means, among other things: breast, cleavage, sinus (in mathematical terms), pocket, casket. By no means can it be translated as "a person's whole body, face, neck, bosom, etc.", as has been done above. So the translators have added their very personal interpretation instead of just translating the word.
In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists). The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything). Guide us to the Straight Way The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). 1:1-7
There is no mentioning of Jews or Christians whatsoever in that verse; the insertions are the translators' additions, and very dangerous and misleading ones at that.
What Hilali and Khan have been doing is an attempt to mislead readers who don't know any Arabic and are being made to believe that the insertions are actually in the text.
So quoting this particular translation in order to "prove" that hikmah means "Muhammad's sunna" does not make any sense at all.
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The most obvious window into the theology taught at Ibn-Saud Islamic University is the Wahhabi Koran, an edition of the Islamic scripture, with commentary, printed in every major European, Asian, and African language in paperback editions that are distributed free or at low cost throughout the world (...). The fifteenth revised edition of this work was published as The Noble Qur'ân in the English Language by Darussalam Publishers and Distributors in Riyadh in 1996. The translators are Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Muhammad Muhsin Khan, both affiliated with another extremist institution, the Islamic University of Medina, two of whose faculty members are also among the educators being hosted by the State Department.
The Wahhabi Koran is notable in that, while Muslims believe that their sacred text was dictated by God and cannot be altered, the Saudi English version adds to the original so as to change its sense in a radical direction. For example, the opening chapter, or surah, is known as Fatiha, and is recited in Muslim daily prayer and (among non-Wahhabis) as a memorial to the dead. The four final lines of Fatiha read, in a normal rendition of the Arabic original (such as this translation by N.J. Dawood, published by Penguin Books): Guide us to the straight path, / The path of those whom You have favored, / Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, / Nor of those who have gone astray.
The Wahhabi Koran renders these lines: Guide us to the Straight Way. / The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). The Wahhabi Koran prints this translation alongside the Arabic text, which contains no reference to either Jews or Christians.
There is nothing to indicate to the uninformed reader that these interpolations, printed in parentheses, are absent from the Arabic. The reader encountering Islam for the first time, as well as the Muslim already indoctrinated in Wahhabism, is led to believe that the Koran denounces all Jews and Christians, which it does not.
There are, of course, many individuals who are unprepared to read this translation with a critical eye. This is especially true wherever Wahhabis conduct the missionary outreach called dawa--above all in prisons in the United States, Europe, and elsewhere. Indeed, it is to just such readers that this edition is directed. The Wahhabi Koran is also a mainstay of Muslim student groups on campuses throughout the West.
Distortions of the text stating or implying that God has condemned the Jews and Christians are scattered throughout the Wahhabi Koran. Notably, they invert the meaning of the several verses that express respect for the "People of the Book," the Jews and Christians. Thus, verse 2:62 in its authentic form states: Believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans--whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right--shall be rewarded by their Lord. (The Sabaeans were followers of an ancient religion impossible to identify clearly today.) In the Saudi English translation, this passage is footnoted to declare, No other religion except Islam will be accepted from anyone, although no such statement appears in the Arabic.
The standard translation of verse 3:113 reads: There are among the People of the Book some upright men who all night long recite the revelations of God and worship Him, who believe in God and the Last Day, who enjoin justice and forbid evil.
The Saudi translation again inserts verbiage hostile to non-Muslims. In the Wahhabi Koran, the upright Jews and Christians turn out to be those who convert to Islam: those enjoining Islamic Monotheism and following Prophet Muhammad and not opposing Prophet Muhammad. To repeat, where the Arabic text actually praises pious Jews and Christians, the Wahhabi English version praises only Jews and Christians who become Muslims.
The original verse 5:65 says of the Jews and Christians: If they observe the Torah and the Gospel and what is revealed to them from their Lord, they shall enjoy abundance.
The Wahhabi edition adds that, in addition to Jews' observing the Torah and Christians' the New Testament, both must accept the Koran--that is, become Muslims--which nowhere appears in the Arabic text and conflicts with traditional Islamic theology. Mainstream Islam treats the Torah, the New Testament, and the Koran as different books. Wahhabism, by contrast, treats the Jewish and Christian scriptures as primitive editions of the Islamic text.
And, inevitably, the Wahhabi Koran adds language aggravating Muslim-Jewish controversies. Verse 17:1 refers to the night journey, an out-of-body experience in which the Prophet Muhammad was taken on a magical steed to a site called in the standard text the farther Temple. The Wahhabi translation alters this to stake the Islamic claim to Jerusalem. It refers to Muhammad's journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem).
Contempt for non-Muslims suffuses Saudi translations of the Islamic holy book. It is a matter of some urgency, then, that federal and state correctional institutions stop allowing the use of the Wahhabi Koran in Islamic teaching. Every prison warden in America should examine his library and replace this volume with an accurate translation.
posted
I am going to say my final thoughts about this issue for ever .
I will establish a pattern here for all of the messengers,remember 2:136 "Say (0 Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishac (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to AI-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ja'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'lsa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).""
Now let me go to Jesus .
verse 3:48 "And He (Allah) will teach him ['Isa (Jesus)] the Book(Al-Kitab ) and AI-Hikmah , (and) the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)."
So from the verse ,Jesus is given 4 different things: 1-The book(Al-Kitab) 2-Al_hikmah(Wisedom ) 3-Tourah . 4-Injeel.
Obviously the word "Al-Kitab" in the verse has some other meaning other than Al-Hikmah and Injeel .
so simply all of them are part of the message no one of them can be exluded .
The word Al-Hikmah can not mean the wisdom in the Book (what book any way !!),because repetiton was not used and isn't used in Arabic and if done is considered the worst style in Arabic. In fact if you read Old Arabic you find no reptition at all .
The word wisdom here can mean one and only one thing ,the wisdom of Jesus himself ,nothing else.
So any messenger should have these 4 things .
Now ,similarly prophet Muhammad PBUH was given them .
And Allah SAW say in 33:34
"And remember (0 you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AI-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things."
So there 2 different things are RECITED in the house of the prophet : 1-Ayato Allah (the verses of Allah ) which is Quran with no doubt. 2-Al-Hikmah
And the questions are :does any body was permitted to stay in the prophet's houses?
Does the prophet listen to songs ?
Does the prophet's wives enjoyed singing or songs ?
The answer to the above 3 questions is a resounding NO.
So Al-Hikmah in this place can have one and only one meaning which is the " WORDS of the prophet Muhammad PBUH."
which mean his Hadith (Hadith means speech )
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posted
WISDOM is not something recited to you. It has nothing to do with words. This is wisdom, please try to use some wisdom to understand it:
a) Scientific Definition:
– To Know and understand the genuine nature of matters – The knowledge of relating results to causes as relevant to the physical composition – Understanding the function of a matter as relevant to Allah's natural law (qadarun), and revealed law (shar'an).
b) Practical Definition:
– Doing what is required in the right manner, at the right time, and in the right place.
Even IF some of the prophet Muhammeds WISDOM is in the hadith, which it undoubtedly would be IF the hadith we have is ALL from HIM, they are collected by blah blah 200+ years blah blah contradictions blah blah all been said countless times before. The Quran is FULL of wisdom BUT it needs humans to BE WISE and use some WISDOM to not go off looking elsewhere for the WISDOM. It requires you to THINK.
sadly no one can be taught wisdom in a few years or a few words, you either have it or you dont, some dont even gain any.
The prophet Muhammed was A WISE MAN.
one who is WISE has WISDOM
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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verse 3:48 "And He (Allah) will teach him ['Isa (Jesus)] the Book(Al-Kitab ) and AI-Hikmah , (and) the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)."
So from the verse ,Jesus is given 4 different things: 1-The book(Al-Kitab) 2-Al_hikmah(Wisedom ) 3-Tourah . 4-Injeel.
Obviously the word "Al-Kitab" in the verse has some other meaning other than Al-Hikmah and Injeel .
so simply all of them are part of the message no one of them can be exluded .
The word Al-Hikmah can not mean the wisdom in the Book (what book any way !!),because repetiton was not used and isn't used in Arabic and if done is considered the worst style in Arabic. In fact if you read Old Arabic you find no reptition at all .
The Book = Torah, Gospel, Quran = THE BOOK from GOD
People of THE BOOK = Jews People of THE BOOK = Christians People of THE BOOK = Muslims
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posted
As has been pointed out repeatedly, God makes no distinction between messengers.
Thus, there are no different versions of hikmah / wisdom. The wisdom that Jesus preached was the very same wisdom Abraham, Moses, David, Muhammad and all the others preached as well. So it makes no sense to interpret / translate hikmah as a specific version of wisdom that was only given to Muhammad and is only contained in narrations about him.
This is so simple and logical, I really don't understand why people don't get it ... do they believe God changed his mind about what constitutes wisdom? Did God give Muhammad a different version of wisdom than he gave other prophets? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense at all. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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It is whose who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong,'dhulm'that are(truly) in security for they are on(right) guidance (6:82).
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) understood the word 'dhulm' in its general sense to mean every wrong doing, even if it be little. On this account the verse is regarded as dubious and they said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of us did not involve his faith with obscurity?" He (SAW) said; It is not that. It is only the 'shirk'(3). Have you not heard what Luqman said: Verily Shirk is a very great sin (dhulm) (31:13). The two shaikhs have recorded it with others.
This is the hadith: Narrated 'Abdullah: When the following Verse was revealed: "It is those who believe and confuse not their belief with wrong (worshipping others besides Allah.)" (6:83), the companions of Allah's Apostle asked, "Who is amongst us who had not done injustice (wrong)?" Allah revealed: "No doubt, joining others in worship with Allah is a great injustice (wrong) indeed." (31.13)
Slight difference in that you said it was Muhammeds words quoting Luqman when it was Allahs words in a very clear verse. if one reads Quran then that hadith you gave is not needed to explain anything.
The actual verse: 031.013 YUSUFALI: Behold, Luqman said to his son by way of instruction: "O my son! join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing."
Your hadith makes it look as though verses from Allah came from Muhammed himself, did Muhammed tell Allah what to say?
This hadith contradicts that one and Quran: Volume 1, Book 2, Number 13:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
"Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children."
so does this one: Volume 1, Book 2, Number 14:
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."
This one Volume 1, Book 2, Number 21:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of Hell will go to Hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from Hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted"
contradicts this verse:
027.065 YUSUFALI: Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).
The hadith is saying Muhammed knew what will happen in the future and on the day of judgement when the verse clearly says only Allah knows those things.
What Muhammed knew and recited he got from Allah, not from himself. He spoke what Allah told him to, and all that is in Quran.
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: As has been pointed out repeatedly, God makes no distinction between messengers.
Thus, there are no different versions of hikmah / wisdom. The wisdom that Jesus preached was the very same wisdom Abraham, Moses, David, Muhammad and all the others preached as well. So it makes no sense to interpret / translate hikmah as a specific version of wisdom that was only given to Muhammad and is only contained in narrations about him.
This is so simple and logical, I really don't understand why people don't get it ... do they believe God changed his mind about what constitutes wisdom? Did God give Muhammad a different version of wisdom than he gave other prophets? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense at all.
God did not change his mind ,ages change and this in turn needs new thought .This is the idea since Islam brought a brand new Book it had to be accompanied by a new legislation .
Secondly,the word wisdom is a translation of Al-Hikmah ,and sorry we can't use a translator's idea about Al-hikmah to conduct a genuine discussion .
the most important is that there are 2 things which are recited at the prophet's house 1-Quran 2-Al-hikmah
So what is Al-Hikmah that is RECITED in the prophet's houses ?
Remember ,it is RECITED .
I can not find any meaning other that the prophet's Speech .
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verse 3:48 "And He (Allah) will teach him ['Isa (Jesus)] the Book(Al-Kitab ) and AI-Hikmah , (and) the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)."
So from the verse ,Jesus is given 4 different things: 1-The book(Al-Kitab) 2-Al_hikmah(Wisedom ) 3-Tourah . 4-Injeel.
Obviously the word "Al-Kitab" in the verse has some other meaning other than Al-Hikmah and Injeel .
so simply all of them are part of the message no one of them can be exluded .
The word Al-Hikmah can not mean the wisdom in the Book (what book any way !!),because repetiton was not used and isn't used in Arabic and if done is considered the worst style in Arabic. In fact if you read Old Arabic you find no reptition at all .
The Book = Torah, Gospel, Quran = THE BOOK from GOD
People of THE BOOK = Jews People of THE BOOK = Christians People of THE BOOK = Muslims
Again sorry .The word book (Al-Kitab )in Arabic can mean "writing "
so when Allah says teach him the book ,means teach him how to write .
And Muslims are not called people of the book ,this usage isn't in the Quran or Hadith ,is it from your shear imagination or what ? Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: As has been pointed out repeatedly, God makes no distinction between messengers.
Thus, there are no different versions of hikmah / wisdom. The wisdom that Jesus preached was the very same wisdom Abraham, Moses, David, Muhammad and all the others preached as well. So it makes no sense to interpret / translate hikmah as a specific version of wisdom that was only given to Muhammad and is only contained in narrations about him.
This is so simple and logical, I really don't understand why people don't get it ... do they believe God changed his mind about what constitutes wisdom? Did God give Muhammad a different version of wisdom than he gave other prophets? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense at all.
God did not change his mind ,ages change and this in turn needs new thought .This is the idea since Islam brought a brand new Book it had to be accompanied by a new legislation .
brand new book that repeatedly uses the old Books as guidence and repeatedly confirms those books? Brand new book that tells of the SAME wisdom being taught/given to all the prophets? What new legislation is there?
quote:Secondly,the word wisdom is a translation of Al-Hikmah ,and sorry we can't use a translator's idea about Al-hikmah to conduct a genuine discussion .
Dalia wasnt using a translators idea, you were in your use of Khan translation which adds his own idea what it means and where you get the idea that wisdom means words of the prophet instead of wisdom
quote:the most important is that there are 2 things which are recited at the prophet's house 1-Quran 2-Al-hikmah
So what is Al-Hikmah that is RECITED in the prophet's houses ?
Remember ,it is RECITED .
I can not find any meaning other that the prophet's Speech .
Where does it say that wisdom is RECITED in the prophets house?
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verse 3:48 "And He (Allah) will teach him ['Isa (Jesus)] the Book(Al-Kitab ) and AI-Hikmah , (and) the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)."
So from the verse ,Jesus is given 4 different things: 1-The book(Al-Kitab) 2-Al_hikmah(Wisedom ) 3-Tourah . 4-Injeel.
Obviously the word "Al-Kitab" in the verse has some other meaning other than Al-Hikmah and Injeel .
so simply all of them are part of the message no one of them can be exluded .
The word Al-Hikmah can not mean the wisdom in the Book (what book any way !!),because repetiton was not used and isn't used in Arabic and if done is considered the worst style in Arabic. In fact if you read Old Arabic you find no reptition at all .
The Book = Torah, Gospel, Quran = THE BOOK from GOD
People of THE BOOK = Jews People of THE BOOK = Christians People of THE BOOK = Muslims
Again sorry .The word book (Al-Kitab )in Arabic can mean "writing "
so when Allah says teach him the book ,means teach him how to write .
Jesus already knew how to write. you said above you didnt know what book, now you decided it means teach him to write? did you forget this was about Jesus and not Muhammed?
quote:And Muslims are not called people of the book ,this usage isn't in the Quran or Hadith ,is it from your shear imagination or what ?
its your imagination that its not in the book. Didnt Allah give the book to muhammed as well as Moses and Jesus?
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posted
033.034 YUSUFALI: And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them).
Thats Allah's Wisdom, it is not something recited but part of the recitation as teh Quran (the recitation) is full of Wisdom, and as its Allah's Wisdom then it cannot possibly be the sunnah of the prophet but the sunnah of Allah which is the ONLY Sunnah that is mentioned in Quran and the ONLY Sunnah you should be following.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Dalia wasnt using a translators idea, you were in your use of Khan translation which adds his own idea what it means and where you get the idea that wisdom means words of the prophet instead of wisdom
What kind of logic is this ?!
The translation is his understanding of the text ,so inserting his own words is his right since it is his translation (understanding)
quote:brand new book that repeatedly uses the old Books as guidence and repeatedly confirms those books? Brand new book that tells of the SAME wisdom being taught/given to all the prophets? What new legislation is there?
Something like this
3:93
"All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for himself before the Taurat (Torah) was revealed. Say (0 Muhammad): "Bring here the Taurilt (Torah) and recite it, if you are truthful.""
So the Torah has a brand new legislation ,Also the bible had this new legislation
3:50
"And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me."
Also the Quran has this property .
Ages change and Legislation must go with this matter.
quote:Where does it say that wisdom is RECITED in the prophets house?
Again wisdom is your understanding ,it is Al-Hikmah
33:34
""And remember (0 you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AI-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things."
BTW ,Yusuf Ali was wrong in his translation because the original Arabic does not contain His ,it only contain the word Al-Hikmah
Jesus already knew how to write. you said above you didnt know what book, now you decided it means teach him to write? did you forget this was about Jesus and not Muhammed?
Who told you that Jesus knew how to write ?! No one except me and Ibn Katheer !!!
I did not forgot that the verse is taking about Jesus ,it is about the word itself
The book can mean ;the bible;the torah ;the Koran ;the preserved board ,writing.
See ? It is a maze in Arabic ,so how could you decide what meaning ?
quote: its your imagination that its not in the book. Didnt Allah give the book to muhammed as well as Moses and Jesus?
You did not get what I asked you ,the question where did you get that "people of the book "can mean Muslims ?
IS this usage exist in the Koran ? In the Hadith maybe ?
where did you get this usage?
Is it Ayisha's usage or what?
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Dalia wasnt using a translators idea, you were in your use of Khan translation which adds his own idea what it means and where you get the idea that wisdom means words of the prophet instead of wisdom
What kind of logic is this ?!
Normal logic
quote:The translation is his understanding of the text ,so inserting his own words is his right since it is his translation (understanding)
But that contradicts what you said here:
quote:"Secondly,the word wisdom is a translation of Al-Hikmah ,and sorry we can't use a translator's idea about Al-hikmah to conduct a genuine discussion ."
So what sort of logic are you using?
quote:
quote:brand new book that repeatedly uses the old Books as guidence and repeatedly confirms those books? Brand new book that tells of the SAME wisdom being taught/given to all the prophets? What new legislation is there?
Something like this
3:93
"All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for himself before the Taurat (Torah) was revealed. Say (0 Muhammad): "Bring here the Taurilt (Torah) and recite it, if you are truthful.""
So the Torah has a brand new legislation ,Also the bible had this new legislation
3:50
"And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me."
Also the Quran has this property .
You have shown me where the gospel had this but avoided showing where Quran had this.
quote:
quote:Ages change and Legislation must go with this matter.
not a lot of Gods legislation has changed from Torah to Quran, thats why Quran repeatedly confirms what is in the Torah and Gospel, as I said before.
quote:
quote:Where does it say that wisdom is RECITED in the prophets house?
Again wisdom is your understanding ,it is Al-Hikmah
33:34
""And remember (0 you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AI-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things."
everything in bold is NOT there and has been ADDED to the Words of God!
quote:BTW ,Yusuf Ali was wrong in his translation because the original Arabic does not contain His ,it only contain the word Al-Hikmah
You come here adding words all over the place to Allahs words then you dare to complain that one word is not there in Ali translation??? really what LOGIC are you using?
here are MANY translators to that verse: Pickthal And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.
Arberry And remember that which is recited in your houses of the signs of God and the Wisdom; God is All-subtle, All-aware.
Shakir And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the communications of Allah and the wisdom; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware.
Sarwar Wives of the Prophet, remember the revelations of God and Words of wisdom that are recited in your homes. God is Most Kind and All-aware.
H/K/Saheeh And remember what is recited in your houses of the verses of Allah and wisdom. Indeed, Allah is ever Subtle and Acquainted [with all things].
Malik Remember the revelations of Allah and wise sayings which are recited in your homes, surely Allah is aware of even the finest mysteries.[34]
Maulana Ali** And remember that which is recited in your houses of the messages of Allah and the Wisdom. Surely Allah is ever Knower of subtilties, Aware.
Free Minds And mention all that is being recited in your homes of God's revelations and the wisdom. God is Sublime, Expert.
Qaribullah And remember that which is recited in your houses of the verses of Allah and the Wisdom. Allah is the Subtle, the Knower.
George Sale And remember that which is read in your houses, of the signs of God, and of the wisdom revealed in the Koran; for God is clear-sighted, and well-acquainted with your actions.
JM Rodwell And recollect what is rehearsed to you in your houses of the Book of God, and of wisdom: for God is keen-sighted, cognisant of all.
Asad And bear in mind all that is recited in your homes of God's messages and [His] wisdom: for God is unfathomable [in His wisdom], all-aware. [For the meaning of the term latif as applied to God, especially in combination with the term khabir, see note on 6:103.]
Khalifa** Remember what is being recited in your homes of GOD's revelations and the wisdom inherent therein. GOD is Sublime, Cognizant.
Hilali/Khan** And remember (O you the members of the Prophets family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AlHikmah (i.e. Prophets Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Quran and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, WellAcquainted with all things.
QXP Shabbir Ahemd** And bear in mind all that is recited in your homes of Allah's Messages and Wisdom, for, Allah is Sublime, Aware.
you see only Khan ADDS his own words to make the verse different to every other translator.
It is Allahs verses being recited which contain Allahs WISDOM
The verse is saying remember what was recited from the verses of Allah and the WISDOM OF THE VERSES, not that the Wisdom was recited, you have agreed Wisdom is understanding, one does not RECITE understanding, the understanding comes from the WISDOM IN THE VERSES
Jesus already knew how to write. you said above you didnt know what book, now you decided it means teach him to write? did you forget this was about Jesus and not Muhammed?
Who told you that Jesus knew how to write ?! No one except me and Ibn Katheer !!!
excuse me? Jesus was a RABBI, he was EDUCATED.
quote:I did not forgot that the verse is taking about Jesus ,it is about the word itself
The book can mean ;the bible;the torah ;the Koran ;the preserved board ,writing.
See ? It is a maze in Arabic ,so how could you decide what meaning ?
By using my brain and thinking and looking up what Allah said is EASY and not a MAZE you seem to think it is.
You have already said The Book is NOT Torah or Bible and not Quran, now you are saying it could be?
I am saying it COULD BE your 'preserved board' which is ALL of Allahs message which is Torah, Gospel AND Quran.
quote:
quote: its your imagination that its not in the book. Didnt Allah give the book to muhammed as well as Moses and Jesus?
You did not get what I asked you ,the question where did you get that "people of the book "can mean Muslims ?
I have just explained that, use your brain and some thought, open you mind.
quote:IS this usage exist in the Koran ? In the Hadith maybe ?
where did you get this usage?
Is it Ayisha's usage or what?
Logic.
quote:Note:why the heck am I not receiving notifications?!!!!
maybe nobody loves you? Maybe you are using the wrong one of the many email addresses you use on this board?
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: But that contradicts what you said here:
It does not ,it is called Khan's translation so it is his right to insert whatever he sees deliver his understanding .
quote:You have shown me where the gospel had this but avoided showing where Quran had this.
Are you serious ?!
Al-Haj is a brand new legislation ,Al-Wudo' is a brand new legislation ,........etc in fact there are uncountable number of legislations introduced in Islam .
quote: not a lot of Gods legislation has changed from Torah to Quran, thats why Quran repeatedly confirms what is in the Torah and Gospel, as I said before.
No ,Koran talks about the original Torah ,and The bible that were revealed to Moses and Jesus PBUH ,not the corrupted version .
quote: everything in bold is NOT there and has been ADDED to the Words of God!
Ayisha what's wrong with you ?
The translation itself is not the words of God!!
here is khan's with no addition
"And remember , that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AI-Hikmah . Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.""
With no HIS,it is only Al-Hikmah .
I posted the Arabic version ,the verse is addressing the prophet's wives
quote:Originally posted by Rahala: it is called Khan's translation so it is his right to insert whatever he sees deliver his understanding .
Uhm, yes ... but the point was that we should not use his translations as a proof for anything, since they are just his personal opinions / intepretations.
Which is what you said in one of your previous posts:
quote:Originally posted by Rahala: sorry we can't use a translator's idea about Al-hikmah to conduct a genuine discussion .
From the bible?! the obsolete book in the view of Koran ?
and what version of the bible are you using ?
Sorry ,there are more than 70 DIFFERENT versions of the bible .
quote:I have just explained that, use your brain and some thought, open you mind.
It is about the usage Ayisha ?
Usage.
Can you use the word "dance" to mean "fire" ?
I think this usage hasn't been invented yet .
The usage you trying to give "people of the book " wasn't used before and will not used to denote Muslims.
quote:maybe nobody loves you? Maybe you are using the wrong one of the many email addresses you use on this board?
Actually found it in the spam box , believe it or not I have one and only one account on this board.
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: But that contradicts what you said here:
It does not ,it is called Khan's translation so it is his right to insert whatever he sees deliver his understanding .
So its ok for Khan, even if his understanding is not right but its not ok for Ali to put His when meaning Allah's Wisdom which is obvious from the Arabic?
You are contradicting yourself yet again Rahala
"Secondly,the word wisdom is a translation of Al-Hikmah ,and sorry we can't use a translator's idea about Al-hikmah to conduct a genuine discussion ."
"Yusuf Ali was wrong in his translation because the original Arabic does not contain His ,it only contain the word Al-Hikmah "
Khan is wrong to add those words as the original Arabic does not contain them AT ALL.
quote:
quote:You have shown me where the gospel had this but avoided showing where Quran had this.
Are you serious ?!
Al-Haj is a brand new legislation ,Al-Wudo' is a brand new legislation ,........etc in fact there are uncountable number of legislations introduced in Islam .
Pilgrimage has been going on since Abraham, so has cleaning oneself before prayer, they are not new, try another.
quote:
quote: not a lot of Gods legislation has changed from Torah to Quran, thats why Quran repeatedly confirms what is in the Torah and Gospel, as I said before.
No ,Koran talks about the original Torah ,and The bible that were revealed to Moses and Jesus PBUH ,not the corrupted version .
Torah was revealed to Moses, not the 'Bible', the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Where does it say these Books are corrupted?
quote:
quote: everything in bold is NOT there and has been ADDED to the Words of God!
Ayisha what's wrong with you ?
The translation itself is not the words of God!!
here is khan's with no addition
"And remember , that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and AI-Hikmah . Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.""
With no HIS,it is only Al-Hikmah .
with no additions is NOT Khan translation though is it, as Khan added:
(0 you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), (i.e. Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the Sunnah).
What Khan actually added to the verse is more words then were in the verse without and you are complaining about Ali adding His when translating Al Hikmah to mean ALLAH'S WISDOM?
Rahala logic indeed!
quote:I posted the Arabic version ,the verse is addressing the prophet's wives
again the verse does not contain the possessive HIS only Al-Hikmah
I know who its addressing but Al Hikamh is what Allah taught the prophet so it is ALLAH'S WISDOM and not, and cannot be, 'Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways,' as Khan ADDED, so Ali is RIGHT and Khan is WRONG for adding words that were not there in the original text. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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From the bible?! the obsolete book in the view of Koran ?
where does Quran say it is obsolete?
002.089 YUSUFALI: And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
quote:and what version of the bible are you using ?
Sorry ,there are more than 70 DIFFERENT versions of the bible .
I use translations as there are many as there are also many of Quran, do you think that each translation says something totally different? The different 'versions' do not mean there is something totally different in them, they are all translations of the Bible just like you use Khan translation of Quran and I use Ali translation.
quote:
quote:I have just explained that, use your brain and some thought, open you mind.
It is about the usage Ayisha ?
Usage.
Can you use the word "dance" to mean "fire" ?
are you insane?
quote:I think this usage hasn't been invented yet .
usage was invented ages ago rahala, no good you trying to re-invent it, try the 'wheel' that will surely blow peoples minds
quote:The usage you trying to give "people of the book " wasn't used before and will not used to denote Muslims.
Did Allah give muhammed The Book or not?
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: are you insane?
You should be asking yourself
quote: Did Allah give muhammed The Book or not?
Depending on the meaning of the book ! I pointed before the book can mean several meanings .
quote:I use translations as there are many as there are also many of Quran, do you think that each translation says something totally different? The different 'versions' do not mean there is something totally different in them, they are all translations of the Bible just like you use Khan translation of Quran and I use Ali translation.
really !!
seems interesting knowing that some christians say that Jesus is God ,others say that he is son of God ,and others say that he is not God at all !!
quote: where does Quran say it is obsolete?
This is the biggest joke in history !!
The Torah was talking about prophet Muhammad but the jews changed that so Allah warned them
2:79
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from AIIMl," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby."
not only this
2:75
"Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah [the Taurat (Torah)], then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?"
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So its ok for Khan, even if his understanding is not right but its not ok for Ali to put His when meaning Allah's Wisdom which is obvious from the Arabic?
No ,I use copy/paste Khan's translation since i have it as electronic copy .
And it is not obvious from the Arabic ,it just says Al-Hikmah and does not say Allah's Hikmah .
And Wisdom can't be in the Quran ,because Quran is so wise ,if we say that wisdom in the Koran then there are some parts of the Koran are not wise ,which can not be true .(assuming Al-Hikmah means wisdom !!)
And I said before the Arabs and the Arab style forbid repetition of meaning in the same sentence.
quote: Pilgrimage has been going on since Abraham, so has cleaning oneself before prayer, they are not new, try another
I said Al-wudu'.الوضوء
Jesus and Moses PBUH did not do any Haj ,this is new in the light that Islam has a new legislation from the most last message.
quote: Torah was revealed to Moses, not the 'Bible', the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Where does it say these Books are corrupted?
Look up ^
quote: I know who its addressing but Al Hikamh is what Allah taught the prophet so it is ALLAH'S WISDOM and not, and cannot be, 'Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways,' as Khan ADDED, so Ali is RIGHT and Khan is WRONG for adding words that were not there in the original text.
so Ali is right in inserting words not in the text God's words ?!
Typical Ayisha insane logic .
I do not want to be trapped in the this .
the main point is :
In the Arabic version ,Allah says that 2 thing are recited in the houses of the prophet 1-Quran 2-Al-hikmah
And they can not be the same for the reasons I pointed before .
Let's see how are you going to escape from this .
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Depending on the meaning of the book ! I pointed before the book can mean several meanings .
did Allah teach Muhammed The Book or not? Answer: YES He did! = muslims are also 'people of The Book'
quote:
quote:I use translations as there are many as there are also many of Quran, do you think that each translation says something totally different? The different 'versions' do not mean there is something totally different in them, they are all translations of the Bible just like you use Khan translation of Quran and I use Ali translation.
really !!
seems interesting knowing that some christians say that Jesus is God ,others say that he is son of God ,and others say that he is not God at all !!
You mean like some Muslims say kill all the kafr and some say follow sunnah of Muhammed when they are not in Quran either? Odd that people read from the same book and get different meanings so it is NOT right for one to ADD his own meaning to the translations is it!
quote:
quote: where does Quran say it is obsolete?
This is the biggest joke in history !!
The Torah was talking about prophet Muhammad but the jews changed that so Allah warned them
2:79
"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from AIIMl," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby."
this is where they ADDED hadith of Moses to the book and said it was from Allah the same as you ADD hadith of Muhammed and say that is from Allah. The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testement, not the rest of the Old Testement. Khan is a good example of one who writes the book with his own hand and says it is from Allah.
Also this does not say Torah and Gospel are obsolete as Quran CONFIRMS them and considering what we have NOW as Torah and Gospel is what we had THEN why would Allah CONFIRM those books if He knew they were obsolete or changed? He clearly tells you what they did, and you are STILL doing it with Quran.
quote:not only this
2:75
"Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah [the Taurat (Torah)], then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it?"
Bolded is what Khan adds
002.075 YUSUFALI: Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
Not a lot different to what you and many Muslims do with Quran, it has not changed the actual Quran though has it? Just some people pervert its meaning BY ADDING THEIR OWN MEANING, like Khan does.
Also this is perverting it ORALLY, with their tongues, not changing the actual words from God, just like you do in saying Hikmah is sunnah or Muhammed when its clearly WISDOM from God.
This verse tells you the same: 003.078 YUSUFALI: There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
which is again what Khan is doing and what you are doing by adding hadith (ORAL, with tongues)
You still have not shown me where Allah says these books are obsolete as you claimed or shown me any verse that tells you NOT to look at these books as they are changed.
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So its ok for Khan, even if his understanding is not right but its not ok for Ali to put His when meaning Allah's Wisdom which is obvious from the Arabic?
No ,I use copy/paste Khan's translation since i have it as electronic copy .
And it is not obvious from the Arabic ,it just says Al-Hikmah and does not say Allah's Hikmah .
does it say sunnah of prophet Muhammed and hadith? NO. who taught Muhammed the Wisdom? ALLAH, so whose Wisdom is it? ALLAH's
quote:And Wisdom can't be in the Quran ,because Quran is so wise ,if we say that wisdom in the Koran then there are some parts of the Koran are not wise ,which can not be true .(assuming Al-Hikmah means wisdom !!)
Hikmah means wisdom, dont start running in circles saying it means something else, it means WISDOM.
Allah is Wise, His Wisdom is in Quran. He taught Muhammed and all prophets His Wisdom, He did not teach them the prophets sunnah or hadith.
039.001 YUSUFALI: The revelation of this Book is from Allah, the Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Is Allah full of the prophets sunnah?
043.004 YUSUFALI: And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.
is the Mother of the Book full of the prophets sunnah?
043.084 YUSUFALI: It is He Who is Allah in heaven and Allah on earth; and He is full of Wisdom and Knowledge.
Is Allah full of the prophets sunnah?
046.002 YUSUFALI: The Revelation of the Book is from Allah the Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.
Allah full of the prophets sunnah?
045.002 YUSUFALI: The revelation of the Book is from Allah the Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.
quote:And I said before the Arabs and the Arab style forbid repetition of meaning in the same sentence.
What has that got to do with anything?
quote:
quote: Pilgrimage has been going on since Abraham, so has cleaning oneself before prayer, they are not new, try another
I said Al-wudu'.
Jesus and Moses PBUH did not do any Haj ,this is new in the light that Islam has a new legislation from the most last message.
Wudu is cleaning/purifying before prayer, its been going on since longgggggg before Muhamme, its not new.
Hajj/Pilgrimage 022.026 YUSUFALI: Behold! We gave the site, to Abraham, of the (Sacred) House, (saying): "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or stand up, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer). 022.027 YUSUFALI: "And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; 022.028 YUSUFALI: "That they may witness the benefits (provided) for them, and celebrate the name of Allah, through the Days appointed, over the cattle which He has provided for them (for sacrifice): then eat ye thereof and feed the distressed ones in want. 022.029 YUSUFALI: "Then let them complete the rites prescribed for them, perform their vows, and (again) circumambulate the Ancient House."
The above was said TO ABRAHAM
002.125 YUSUFALI: Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer).
003.097 YUSUFALI: In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.
Hajj/Pilgrimage is not new.
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quote: Torah was revealed to Moses, not the 'Bible', the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Where does it say these Books are corrupted?
Look up ^
look up for a clearer meaning
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quote: I know who its addressing but Al Hikamh is what Allah taught the prophet so it is ALLAH'S WISDOM and not, and cannot be, 'Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways,' as Khan ADDED, so Ali is RIGHT and Khan is WRONG for adding words that were not there in the original text.
so Ali is right in inserting words not in the text God's words ?!
by YOUR Logic if its ok for Khan to add his interpretion to make the reader think it means something that Allah did not even put there, then it must be ok for Ali to clarify it is the Wisdom of Allah by adding 'his' to the verse.
quote:Typical Ayisha insane logic .
normal logic which you do not have the capacity to follow.
quote:I do not want to be trapped in the this .
I dont blame you, you have shown your inabilities, lack of thought and lack of knowledge clearly yet again.
quote:the main point is :
In the Arabic version ,Allah says that 2 thing are recited in the houses of the prophet 1-Quran 2-Al-hikmah
And they can not be the same for the reasons I pointed before .
Let's see how are you going to escape from this .
escape? LOL you are running. The recitation that Muhammed gave of the verses WHICH CONTAIN THE WISDOM OF ALLAH and are FROM ALLAH. In light of the many other verses I have given containing the word HIKMAH this CANNOT mean the sunnah of the prophet and no amount of twisting, adding and re-twisting will make it mean that.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Rahala: ^You did not get what I am saying .
Quran can't contain wise parts (again assuming Al-hikmah means wisdom )becuase if it contains wise parts then there are unwise parts of it .
Quran is all wise,not parts of it .
the only one saying parts is you, it is clear to anyone with a brain and can read it is FULL of Wisdom. 36:2
do you understand what FULL means?
you are contradicting yourself all over the place and getting in a right state. Nice to have you back Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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but everything he was given is in Quran, not in another 10 volumes called hadith that no one is even sure came from him and were not collected till over 200 years after his death and many clearly contradict Quran and in one he himself even says DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING FROM ME BUT QURAN! so which hadith DO you follow? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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