quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: pablo, if vwvwv is a robot then it has a good grasp of basic Christianity and the intricacies thereof. From what it has written on this thread, I cannot imagine what any Muslim could write to honestly contradict it! But then, I'm not Muslim and I realise that out thought patterns are very different when it comes to this sort of discussion. Furthermore, if vwvwv is not a robot and is indeed the former "unfinished thought": welcome back!
Thank you Ourluxor. This person always insults and attacks posters when she realises she cannot debunk their arguments.
Have you noticed how she always encourages and applauds posters (i.e Dalia) to post copy and pastes, as long as their content agrees with her views?
She keeps repeating like a parrot that she is ignoring me, yet she mentions my name in every post of hers.
Oh dont talk wet woman! I mentioned your name once! Dalia posts and is able to discuss THAT post and doesn't resort to spamming a thread with post after post as you do. You are UNABLE to discuss or debate.
This is my LAST post to you.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Don't let Ayisha get you down, She is notorious for insulting and attacking the posters when she can't refute what they say.
All you have to do is ask her why in the Quran it only speaks about what Men will get in Islamic Heaven and her true colors show. Since she can't refute that the Quran speaks about Women and other things that Male Muslims get in Heaven she will Insult you and then run. Another thing that sets her off is when you bring up the age of Ayisha. I refuted a while back a Article she posted that claims Ayisha was not nine when muhammad consumated his marriage with her. I posted a Article that refuted her long article word for word. After reading it she decided that she was too busy "Working" to refute it back. The truth is she could NOT refute it so she went back to her MO of Insults and attacks. Sad really.
All I can say is there is plenty of people who love to read your posts that don't post so keep up the good work and let the Haters Hate.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: So you pick up the sahih hadith same how you pick up Tomato in the market, taking the good one and leaving the bad one, trying to close your eyes that all Tomatos are in one basket and sold by same man.
posted
i really dont know what u r talking about? that loads of posts just gott me confused.
if u have any Question or DIGS from any thing u copy and past in here im ready to answer and kick ur arse . i am the door ayisha was talking about hahah.
she told u dont let the door hit ur ass . but i am the door who will kick ur ass Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Personally I am not interested in kicking anybody's ass, neither I am interested in exchanging insults with you. Just trying to understand your point of view. So here's my question.
You said: "only the true hadith i believe in which is matching Quraan."
I explained to you that the Quran contains plenty of verses that match the hadith that freshsoda posted. Do you agree with that? If not why/explain.
For example the Quran says:
"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
"5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
"8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them"
"Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them"
"O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers"
and many more
You also said: Originally posted by pablo_7777: "Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) the most tolerant human being came on earth ever."
I asked you, what about the numerous ahadith that show Muhammad ordering assassinations, torturing prisoners and so on?
On what basis do you deny these hadiths (if you do), I mean, do you have access to a different version of the history of the same events that contradicts all those narrations collected by Bukhari, Muslim etc?
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posted
You will not get logic answers vw. only you will get a big basket full with good tomatos on the top while the spoiled ones are hidden. Islam is peace, Mohammed was the most tolerant human being, we love christians, we respect freedom of beliefs. You buy it as a good tomatos, take it to home and then you discover the truth later When you have terrible smell and you found you was being cheated.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Then what is the point in asking the question if you have already decided what the answer will be and your reaction to it?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Opsssssssss I think im late. My sister gave a birth ( Mashaa Allah ) day before yesterday that’s why I was with her.
First I want to know in what religion u believe in ? I respect all beliefs. As u knew that im a Muslim so I need to know what is ur religion.
. I hope if I find an open minded person to talk to. I mean VW ayisha..
quote: "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
I don’t know whats wrong with this verse . although u used poor translation . But may be because he didn’t find the right word. which shows how poor is ur language.
FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Second: God didn’t prescribe to fight .
When God saw that the unbeliever hurt Muslims and torture them then God said .
so God didn’t prescribe to fight. but the nonbeliever forced THE MUSLIMS to fight back. And to show u that. fight was not prescribed . that God said ( But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you) that is the medication which tastes horrible which will let u survive.
(كُتِب)By the way PRESCRIBED is not the perfect word for( here the meaning of this verse is that the nonbeliever forced u to fight back and u hate to fight. but u need to fight back Just to survive. The evidence that fighting never been allowed before in Islam. first episode finished Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: Opsssssssss I think im late. My sister gave a birth ( Mashaa Allah ) day before yesterday that’s why I was with her.
First I want to know in what religion u believe in ? I respect all beliefs. As u knew that im a Muslim so I need to know what is ur religion.
. I hope if I find an open minded person to talk to. I mean VW ayisha..
quote: "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
I don’t know whats wrong with this verse . although u used poor translation . But may be because he didn’t find the right word. which shows how poor is ur language.
FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Second: God didn’t prescribe to fight .
When God saw that the unbeliever hurt Muslims and torture them then God said .
so God didn’t prescribe to fight. but the nonbeliever forced THE MUSLIMS to fight back. And to show u that. fight was not prescribed . that God said ( But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you) that is the medication which tastes horrible which will let u survive.
(كُتِب)By the way PRESCRIBED is not the perfect word for( here the meaning of this verse is that the nonbeliever forced u to fight back and u hate to fight. but u need to fight back Just to survive. The evidence that fighting never been allowed before in Islam. first episode finished
in DEFENSE are the words you are looking for here pablo.
quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: Opsssssssss I think im late. My sister gave a birth ( Mashaa Allah ) day before yesterday that’s why I was with her.
First I want to know in what religion u believe in ? I respect all beliefs. As u knew that im a Muslim so I need to know what is ur religion.
. I hope if I find an open minded person to talk to. I mean VW ayisha..
quote: "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
I don’t know whats wrong with this verse . although u used poor translation . But may be because he didn’t find the right word. which shows how poor is ur language.
FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Second: God didn’t prescribe to fight .
When God saw that the unbeliever hurt Muslims and torture them then God said .
so God didn’t prescribe to fight. but the nonbeliever forced THE MUSLIMS to fight back. And to show u that. fight was not prescribed . that God said ( But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you) that is the medication which tastes horrible which will let u survive.
(كُتِب)By the way PRESCRIBED is not the perfect word for( here the meaning of this verse is that the nonbeliever forced u to fight back and u hate to fight. but u need to fight back Just to survive. The evidence that fighting never been allowed before in Islam. first episode finished
God didn't tell Christians to fight back. He said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. A much harder thing to do.
Congratulations on your sisters baby!
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: Opsssssssss I think im late. My sister gave a birth ( Mashaa Allah ) day before yesterday that’s why I was with her.
First I want to know in what religion u believe in ? I respect all beliefs. As u knew that im a Muslim so I need to know what is ur religion.
. I hope if I find an open minded person to talk to. I mean VW ayisha..
quote: "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
I don’t know whats wrong with this verse . although u used poor translation . But may be because he didn’t find the right word. which shows how poor is ur language.
FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Second: God didn’t prescribe to fight .
When God saw that the unbeliever hurt Muslims and torture them then God said .
so God didn’t prescribe to fight. but the nonbeliever forced THE MUSLIMS to fight back. And to show u that. fight was not prescribed . that God said ( But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you) that is the medication which tastes horrible which will let u survive.
(كُتِب)By the way PRESCRIBED is not the perfect word for( here the meaning of this verse is that the nonbeliever forced u to fight back and u hate to fight. but u need to fight back Just to survive. The evidence that fighting never been allowed before in Islam. first episode finished
God didn't tell Christians to fight back. He said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. A much harder thing to do.
This is after the years of persecution of Christians and burning of witches and God decided the believers should fight back against the pagan oppressors. It shows they WERE turning the other cheek as it clearly says He prescribes a thing they do not LIKE to do, which is to fight.
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FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Pablo, I am Christian. You said elsewhere that Islam fullfills Christianity. Yet Jesus prescribes a completely different kind of medicine to what Muhammad prescribes.
Instead of fighting Jesus prescribes forgiveness. For Christians forgiveness is the final step towards victory without violence. The important thing to remember is that we forgive as much or as more for our own sakes as for the sakes of those we forgive. Our forgiveness may or may not weaken the hold that evil has on our adversaries, but it will unfailingly offer us protection against that evil spreading into our own hearts. In the normal course of events, evil grows and festers inside people until they lash out and harm others. If those others respond in kind, evil is able to spread and reproduce by growing in the hearts of the victims. If, however, the victims are forgiving, the cycle of evil is disrupted.
When we execute a murderer, we often believe we are destroying evil. The opposite, however, is true. Although we may be killing the person who housed the evil and gave it form, we are providing another home for that same evil in our own hearts and souls. We murder people on behalf of the state, and in so doing we become evils new host.
The only true way to destroy evil is to drive it out with love.
What Jesus is asking to do is neither to approve of horrible things, nor to change our minds about what we consider wrong. Rather, he is instructing us to give up on revenge, to be mindful of our own flaws, and to place everything in Gods hands. What do we do in the face of remorseless, implacable evil? We deny it a place in our own hearts. In the end, who our adversaries are and what they have done to us is irrelevant. We forgive others as much for our own benefit as for theirs.
One question that I was never able to get an answer for is: if Allah wants to kill the unbelievers, why he does not do it himself? It should be easy for him to kill them, maim them, burn them, and strike them with all sorts of disasters and calamities. Why instead he asks his messenger and his zealot devotees to do his dirty work?
Is it perhaps that he is incapable to do it on his own? Or is it that he is no god at all but the figment of Muhammad's mind, a convenient scarecrow that would give the self acclaimed prophet unlimited power to plunder.
Muhammad claimed that the disbelief in Allah was the greatest crime punishable by death. Who benefited from this? He was the only contact between Allah and his followers.
Disobedience to him meant disobedience to God. Would really God's self esteem be hurt if these primates of the Earth did not recognize and praised him? Would he really be so offended that he would burn people eternally? That is an absurd preposition. But it gave Muhammad the same power as God to do anything he wished with no one to question him. He got the cart blanch to kill anyone, to demand his followers to go and fight even their own allies, relatives and friends and bring 20% of the booty to him. It gave him right to sleep with any number of women and choose the youngest and the prettiest of the captive women. The more he exalted Allah the more his power grew. Allah was an excuse that empowered a power hungry man to rise from poverty to absolute dominance and make him even dream of conquering the great kingdoms of Persia and Byzantine.
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posted
The truth is that the Meccans, did not opress Muslims neither drive the Muslims out of their homes.
They emigrated on their own volition and because of Mohammad’s insistence, and Pablo I have the verses to prove it if you like.
The truth is that despite the fact that Muhammad constantly insulted the religion of the Quraish and infuriated them with his abrasive behavior there is not a single incidence of physical violence or persecution against him or his followers recorded in Islamic annals.
Muslims today would not tolerate any criticism against their religion. But Arabs prior to Muhammad were more tolerant. They used to live with the Jews and Christians in harmony without any sign of religious animosity between them. Yet the ultimate test of tolerance came when Muhammad started to taunt their gods. Despite that kind of libeling the Quraish evinced incredible degree of tolerance and although being offended, never harmed Muhammad or any of his cohorts.
Compare this to the treatment of the Baha’is in Iran. Baha’is do not insult Muhammad or his Allah, they do not reject the Imams nor disagree with any part of Quran. All they say is that their messenger is the Promised One of the Muslims. This is nothing compared to Muhammad’s affronts of the beliefs of the people of Quraish. Nevertheless Muslims have not spared any act of atrocity against the Baha’is. They killed many of them, jailed them, tortured them, beat them, denied them of their human rights and treated them with utter inhumanity. None of that was done against Muhammad and his followers in Mecca even though he constantly accosted their gods with showers of taunts and would imprecate their sacred beliefs as if daring them to persecute.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:God didn't tell Christians to fight back. He said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. A much harder thing to do.
so dont take medication for cancer.
these following verses are in bible. and i dont believe that Jesus said that, so i think some verses in bible have been distorted.
The "full" quote, according to the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translation of the Bible, reads (Jesus speaking):
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB).
IF U WANT TO READ MORE THAT U CAN OPEN UR BIBLE WHICH ON TH SHELF. OR visit that site.
posted
I post the verse that describes how Muhammad used to taunt the beliefs of Quraish.
When the Meccans had enough of it and could no more stand Muhammad’s mocking of their deities, a body of their elders repaired to Abu Talib, the uncle of the Prophet and complained:
“This Nephew of thine hath spoken opprobriously of our gods and our religion: and hath abused us as fools, and given out that our forefathers were all astray. Now, avenge us thyself of our adversary; or, (seeing that thou art in the same case with ourselves,) leave him to its that we may take our satisfaction.”
Abu Talib spoke to them softly and assured them he would counsel his nephew to be more deferential. But Muhammad would not change his proceedings. So they went again to Abu Talib in great vexation; and warned him that if he would not restrain his nephew from his offensive conduct, they would have to restrain him themselves. They added thus:
“and now verily we cannot have patience any longer with his abuse of us, our ancestors, and our gods. Wherefore either do thou hold him back from us, or thyself take part with him that the matter may be decided between us.”
And Pablo, this is all that is recorded about the persecution of the Muslims in Mecca. The above is a warning but falls short of issuing a threat. In fact until Abu Talib was alive and even after his death until Muhammad stayed in Mecca no harm was inflicted upon him and nor any of his followers suffered persecution.
The only physical violence reported against a Muslim is the beating of Omar of his own sister who had embraced Islam, which led to his own acceptance. This however cannot be called a real religious persecution but a family violence as Omar was an irritable man with an unpredictable temper who would lose his composure easily and resort to violence. Yet even this hadith may not be true because in another Hadith narrated by Omar himself he describes his story of conversion to Islam differently.
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posted
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Pablo, did Jesus kill anyone?
No. Instead he said:
52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
The sword in the verse you posted is a metaphore. It indicates that following Jesus may not bring peace to a family, but may "split" it up. We can not say the same about Muhammad's sword, because of his life and his actions.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: so dont take medication for cancer.
By cancer you mean disbelief?
dont twist what i said. i said medication for cancer. i never call u names cos u have a different beliefs.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: can u tell me. what was the religion of Qureesh?
Pablo, prior to Islam, Arabia was what we'd call today a multi-cultural soiciety. They believed in many Gods, so they were Polytheists. Pagan and polytheistic religions are naturally more tolerant of others' beliefs.
Same with Arabia. Prior to Islam, Arabs were tolerant people. Religious animosity was unheard of. People fought over honor or other silly things, much like everywhere else but never over religion.
In fact they had specific months of the year that they regarded as sacred and never fought in those months. Even the thieves and highway rubbers respected the lives of people in those sacred months. Despite their differences all the Arabs gathered together and worshipped their gods. No one disparaged another person's deity.
They allowed anyone to preach their faith including Muhammad. They intermarried with Jews and Christians and never thought people are najis (filthy, impure, untouchable) for what they believe. Women were respected. They could travel alone. They could own and run their own businesses as in the case of Khadijah, they could even lead an army as in the case of Aisha. Khadijah, prior to marring Muhammad was a businesswomen who had made a fortune running her own trading business and who had many men at her service. Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? I guess not.
But gradually, as the teachings of Muhammad started to sink, the newer generations thought these practices belonged to the jahiliyah (the age of ignorance) and abandoned them. Arabs were cultured and their society was a much more humanistic one than what it became after Muhammad.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
look. if i want to find digs and snap it . make sure i will find it. if u r arguing and debating for the sake of arguing so please stop bothering ur self and bugging me.
if u really trying to find the truth . so we can talk and discuss. but if u want only to find digs to snap and get the meaning of Quraan and hadith out of its context. please save ur energy.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
By cancer you mean disbelief? [/qb][/QUOTE]dont twist what i said. i said medication for cancer. i never call u names cos u have a different beliefs. [/qb][/QUOTE]
Tell me what you mean then.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
u still dodnt tell me what was the religion of Qureesh. but any way they were pagan . worshiping any thing and everything like stone, statues, . even they were making their gods from dates to eat it afterwords. they showed no respect even to their gods.
if u have any bad idea about how bad ISLAM treat women. so u r wrong.
dont judge ISLAM and QURAAN with what people do now a days.
read Quraan and understand it well then u can judge what u read. but please u have to understand it well and dont read it to find digs. i dont want to know what will be the result but it is only for ur self.
women i know do everything. they drive and study, go abroad to study, work.
they r equal in islam.
if there are some Muslims treat them as they r not equal so it is the fault of people themselves not the fault of ISLAM.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: if u really trying to find the truth . so we can talk and discuss.
I want to find the truth. But to convince me you will have to back up your arguments with evidence.
I don't think you are interested in backing up your statements, you just want to accept Islam without questioning.
I just find it strange when someone claims Islam is the most tolerant religion on earth, when all evidence suggest otherwise.
Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Don't take it personally though. I don't mean to insult you as a person or your culture. I just find Islam false. I hope you are able to differentiate these two.
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posted
i think i gave u the evidence which shows that Islam is the most tolerant religion on earth.
tell me. have u ever question the bible? i think no.
but believe me i asked lots of questions and always find the answer which convince me and make me satisfied.
i say thank God im a Muslim.
do u think if islam is violent i would be a Muslim?
just open ur mind and ur heart and understand the meaning of Islam.
by the way it is not very far from Christianity. but the distorted versos in bible make every one in doubt.
i wanna give u an example.
every on has his own interests . i like driving or reading or swimming or drinking or parting or or or..........
do u think i have to find the religion which suites me even if it was wrong ?
or to find the true words which might meet my interests or not and follow it?
i think every one rejecting islam is because u r not allowed to drink or have sex before u get married.
people dont find it right for them . and they never thought if what they do is right or wrong. all what they want is do anything whenever they want even if it was wrong.
for me its completely different coz i want to find the right thing to do.
i dont need to find a religion suites me but the most important is what i do suite the religion which i believe it is right. if yes so i feel really happy and satisfied
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
i think i showed u the evidence but i think u didnt bother to read it KING.
do u think ur God is a liar?
quote: (He said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies)
quote:
(The "full" quote, according to the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translation of the Bible, reads (Jesus speaking):
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB).)
quote:
can u tell me which one of these 2 vrsos is right?
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
The question is that if really God is displeased from anyone can't he punish him and why he needs one of his creatures tell him what to do? If there is an injustice done, shouldn't God be the judge? Who are we to tell God what are his duties?
Why non of Muhammad's enemies suffered any harm until he actually went and destroyed them physically?
Btw, in nowhere the humanist say that "oppression in the name of national security is acceptable". Oppression under no pretext is acceptable by the chapter of human rights. However, Oppression in the name of Islam is acceptable.
When Muhammad orders
Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191) this is oppression. When he asks them to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123) or slay them (Q. 9: 5) and fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) just because they want to have the freedom of belief this is oppression. When he asks the Jews and Christians to accept Islam or pay Jaziyah feeling subdued and humiliated (Q. 9: 29) and taxes them up to 50% of their income as he did in Kheibar, this is oppression. When Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam will be accepted (Q. 3: 85) this is oppression. When he call the non-believers najis (impure untouchable) (Q. 9: 28) and says they will go to hell (Q. 5: 11), this is oppression. When Muhammad orders his followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193), it is oppression. When it causes hate of the non-Muslims by telling stupid stories that they will go to hell and will drink boiling water (Q. 14: 17) this is oppression. When he asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that “they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter” (Q.5: 34) this is oppression. When he uses fear mongering by tales like “As for the disbelievers for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” (Q. 22: 9) this is oppression. When Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (Q. 9: 23), (Q. 3: 28), this is oppression. When it asks the Muslims to “strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor (Q. 25: 52), be stern with them because they belong to hell (Q. 66: 9) this is oppression. When Muhammad demands his follower to “strike off the heads of the disbelievers”; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” (Q. 47: 4) this is oppression. When he says women are inferior to men and they are deficient in intelligence, and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (Q. 4:34) this is oppression. When he says that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (Q. 66:10) and maintains that men have an advantage over the women (Q. 2:228), it is oppression. when he denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (Q. 4:11-12), and regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the court (Q. 2:282) this is oppression. This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Polygamy and polyamory with the slave grills and women captured in wars (Q. 4:3) is rape and oppression. The whole Islam is oppression.
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posted
what u wrote is too much for me to read quickly. but u really got the meaning out of its context.
i will talk about the first verse u wrote here.
quote: When Muhammad orders
Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191)
i think u read (Q.2:191) and took it out of its context. if u read ( Q.2:190 )Fight in the cause of Allah THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
please read Quraan and dont get it out of its context.
what is the harm when it says fight those who fight u?
please be careful when u get evidences.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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FIGHTING IS PRESCRIBED: MEDICATION IS PRESCRIBED: I think u wouldnt take medication for cancer unless u have cancer. And after the doctor who knows more than u( PRESCRIBE). So if u don’t have cancer then doctors will not FORCE U AND prescribe that medication for u and that is a kind of mercy other wise u will die . SO CANCER FORCED U TO TAKE MEDICATION. NOT THE DOCTOR.
Pablo, I am Christian. You said elsewhere that Islam fullfills Christianity. Yet Jesus prescribes a completely different kind of medicine to what Muhammad prescribes.
Instead of fighting Jesus prescribes forgiveness. For Christians forgiveness is the final step towards victory without violence. The important thing to remember is that we forgive as much or as more for our own sakes as for the sakes of those we forgive. Our forgiveness may or may not weaken the hold that evil has on our adversaries, but it will unfailingly offer us protection against that evil spreading into our own hearts. In the normal course of events, evil grows and festers inside people until they lash out and harm others. If those others respond in kind, evil is able to spread and reproduce by growing in the hearts of the victims. If, however, the victims are forgiving, the cycle of evil is disrupted.
When we execute a murderer, we often believe we are destroying evil. The opposite, however, is true. Although we may be killing the person who housed the evil and gave it form, we are providing another home for that same evil in our own hearts and souls. We murder people on behalf of the state, and in so doing we become evils new host.
The only true way to destroy evil is to drive it out with love.
What Jesus is asking to do is neither to approve of horrible things, nor to change our minds about what we consider wrong. Rather, he is instructing us to give up on revenge, to be mindful of our own flaws, and to place everything in Gods hands. What do we do in the face of remorseless, implacable evil? We deny it a place in our own hearts. In the end, who our adversaries are and what they have done to us is irrelevant. We forgive others as much for our own benefit as for theirs.
One question that I was never able to get an answer for is: if Allah wants to kill the unbelievers, why he does not do it himself? It should be easy for him to kill them, maim them, burn them, and strike them with all sorts of disasters and calamities. Why instead he asks his messenger and his zealot devotees to do his dirty work?
Is it perhaps that he is incapable to do it on his own? Or is it that he is no god at all but the figment of Muhammad's mind, a convenient scarecrow that would give the self acclaimed prophet unlimited power to plunder.
Muhammad claimed that the disbelief in Allah was the greatest crime punishable by death. Who benefited from this? He was the only contact between Allah and his followers.
Disobedience to him meant disobedience to God. Would really God's self esteem be hurt if these primates of the Earth did not recognize and praised him? Would he really be so offended that he would burn people eternally? That is an absurd preposition. But it gave Muhammad the same power as God to do anything he wished with no one to question him. He got the cart blanch to kill anyone, to demand his followers to go and fight even their own allies, relatives and friends and bring 20% of the booty to him. It gave him right to sleep with any number of women and choose the youngest and the prettiest of the captive women. The more he exalted Allah the more his power grew. Allah was an excuse that empowered a power hungry man to rise from poverty to absolute dominance and make him even dream of conquering the great kingdoms of Persia and Byzantine.
quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: i say thank God im a Muslim.
do u think if islam is violent i would be a Muslim?
just open ur mind and ur heart and understand the meaning of Islam.
There are many Muslims that idealize Islam, and obviously you are one of them. They only chose to follow the good parts of Islam. But what we discuss here is whether Quran is divine or not. Again, this forum is about religion and we scrutiny and judge all religions. Judging by its ambiguous message and his Prophet it is obvious that it is not from God.
Quran preach both good and bad things. The good things is believe in one God, inner peace, the security you feel etc. I can see that. The bad part is the hidden agenda of its founder and the fact that many times instead of guiding people, it misguides them. Sometimes it is good when someone else criticizes our religion, because more often than not we do not realize that some bad practises of our culture stem from religious beliefs..
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quote:God didn't tell Christians to fight back. He said to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. A much harder thing to do.
so dont take medication for cancer.
these following verses are in bible. and i dont believe that Jesus said that, so i think some verses in bible have been distorted.
The "full" quote, according to the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translation of the Bible, reads (Jesus speaking):
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB).
IF U WANT TO READ MORE THAT U CAN OPEN UR BIBLE WHICH ON TH SHELF. OR visit that site.
Pablo, We know these. The Bible is full of parables. It talks about the word of God as the sword. If Jesus wanted us to use a literal sword don't you think that he would give some examples of this.
quote: Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: i think i gave u the evidence which shows that Islam is the most tolerant religion on earth.
tell me. have u ever question the bible? i think no.
I have questioned, both the Bible and the deity of Jesus. Everyone should question. Only those who want the truth are willing to question. Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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Pablo, We know these. The Bible is full of parables. It talks about the word of God as the sword. If Jesus wanted us to use a literal sword don't you think that he would give some examples of this.
quote: Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
[/QB]
sword or word? u cant distort it any more .
if he wanted to say word of God he would have said word of God.
i think God is never Wrong, what do u think? Oro
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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[/QUOTE]The "full" quote, according to the New American Standard Bible (NASB) translation of the Bible, reads (Jesus speaking):
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB
quote: [QUOTE]
any way i didnt ever say Jesus said that. i cant believ that Jesus (PBUH)would say that.
so what u said that jesus never use the sword that means he never said sowrd.
from here u can recognize that BIBLE has been distorted . so it is not divine.
Posts: 305 | From: egypt | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by pablo_7777: what is the harm when it says fight those who fight u?
As Mahatma Ghandi said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
Self-defense or not it doesn't matter. It isn't the job of a representative of God to prescribe fighting in self defense. Self defense is a natural instict, you don't need Muhammad to tell you that. Are you telling me that before Islam, people did not fight in self-defense? Sp what's new?
Muhammad said nothing new. Jesus realised what a powerful weapon love and forgiveness is. More powerful and persuasive than the strongest weapons. It removes fear.
It is important to note however, that “those who wage war against Allah and his messenger” is referred to those who do not accept Muhammad’s claim to prophethood. The “enemies” of Islam are not necessarily those who take arm against Muslims. Any person who resists the invitation to accept Islam is an enemy and is waging war against Allah and his messenger and should receive punishment. For example people like me who have never hurt a single Muslim nor intend to do so but am using my laptop to expose Islam are considered as “waging war against Allah and his Messenger”.
Do you agree that people should be executed, crucified, their hands and feet chopped from opposite sides because they decide to leave Islam after finding it a false doctrine? Muslims should fight against such people. But if they come to Islam and repent then they can be forgiven. In Iran hundreds of Bahais were given this chance to come to Islam and recant and repent from being Bahais. Since they did not oblige they were tortured and executed. Though this may seem to you justice, in reality it is the acme of injustice.
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