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I haven't kidnapped anyone. I really can't discuss this situation on here. My husband used to say 'you can read Shakespeare to a monkey for 100 years, and at the end of it, he will still be a monkey'
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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Jessie, There is a solution to this problem. Palestinians need to go get jobs and try to support their families. Take off the silly looking ski masks, put up the AK 47s and act like civilized people. they look like a bunch of wackos running around making threats and shooting their guns in the air. The longer they fight THE MORE THEY LOSE, its as simple as that. Frankly, I lost all respect for the palestinians when they turned down the '99 deal Clinton brokered. Israel is taking a harder and harder line, as they should. If theis keeps up they will end up as little more than slaves in their own land. The war can no longer be won and enough is enough.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Clearly you know zilch about the situation. Go get jobs???? Hey maybe they could grow olives or something? Oh no, Israelis are shelling their farmland every day. Or maybe export things, oh no, Israel doesn't let them do that either. I'm not here to teach you, but take a few hours out from checking under your trailer for A-rabs, and read the history of this conflict.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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We all know the history of the conflict Jessie. The problem is that there is no longer a conflict....its been over for years. Many of these Palestinians have a head full of concrete and are to ignorant to understand that they are playing right into Israel's hands. Obviously the economy is not great but all of this militancy is not helping. You know full well that the United States and UK will never allow Israel to lose even IF the Palestinians had the power to defeat them....which they do not. The point is you have to accept reality and move on. If they do not the Israelis will destroy them and nobody will care. Thats just a fact.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: I haven't kidnapped anyone. I really can't discuss this situation on here. My husband used to say 'you can read Shakespeare to a monkey for 100 years, and at the end of it, he will still be a monkey'
why are you compareing yourself with a monkey????
have a lil self esteem, and start useing your brain, and heart...why in the world do you support kidnapping?
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Yeah, those Palestinian politicians need to be released now, [personally don't consider the soldier a kidnap victim really - more pow] I hope the Palstinian children being held in Israeli prisons are sent home to their families, and I hope the dorky looking IDF kid is ok and gets to go home too. My heart doesn't go out to soldiers who get captured in fire fights, that's the job isn't it, but I have never wanted anyone dead. [reread that last statement] I have tried, tried, tried, to talk to Americans over the years, it's like arguing with my dog. You are just out of your depth. 'Send us your poor huddled masses....' Yeah send us your misfits, saddos, fanatics and psychos. And this is what you get 200 years later. You believe politicians who are clearly deranged because it suits you to do so. Did you know the word 'gullible' isn't in Webster's dictionary?
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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jessie, you still can't grasp this basic basic truth...
For (****ALL****) have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
israel and palistinians need to CHANGE their ways..and do unto each other as they would have done unto themselfs...
thats it in a nut shell...untill they learn that..the holy land will continue to be a sideshow on the world stage.
isreal gave palistinians gaza just a while ago..and now the palistinians want more. and while israel and palitine play tit for tat...they continue to build nothing but hatred for each other.
lets break this cycle of hatred..just as a heel crushes a serpents head.
what goes around comes around..
what I want to see jessie, is you to befreind a jewish person, and treat them "exactly as you wish to be treated"
untill you do this..you cannot see the light..
as I said before, evil begets evil...I want you personally to break this chain of hatred..I want you to do your part.
-------------------- The ground at Calvary's Cross is level Posts: 1172 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jessie, You may be aware that Israel is arresting Palestinian government officials as we speak. They also stated last night that if the young soldier was killed they would kill the palestinian prime minister. We are entering a new phase of this conflict. Israel is justifily fed up and the price will be brutal if the palestinians do not start acting like civilized people. If this keeps up there will be no palestinian government, is this what you want?
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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"isreal gave palistinians gaza just a while ago.." Huh??? Where do you hear this garbage, on Oprah? Gaza is in Palestine, always has been. I have a few Jewish friends, they are mostly [not all] utterly horrified at the terrorism of Israel.
"They also stated last night that if the young soldier was killed they would kill the palestinian prime minister."
The PALESTINIANS need to act like civilised people????
LOL
Please READ what you wrote here and think a while.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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I may be in Egypt, but I can't just pop next door to chat to Palestinians you know. Have you protested to your dumb president abut the US sending billions in money and arms to Israel, while Americans are on welfare? Have you protested to the pretend Israeli government about the 2000 missiles a month[you paid for them] they have been sending into Gaza for months, often killing innocent civilians. Was the Israeli soldier CAPTURED manning a missile launcher? I am going to try to find out.
I DO hope he gets home safely, I'm a mother, I empathise, so please stop this 'mom and pop' personalisation, it's a big thing, it's political, not personal.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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3. it is personal....there is either right or wrong..and I pray both israel and palistinians can someday understand what Im talking about..
there are no grey areas about this..
I want you to make a cardboard sign right now, on it write, "ISRAEL AND PALITINIANS WAKE UP! FOR JUDGEMENT DAY WILL COME AND YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!"
then I want you to hand out bibles to everyone you met in alex, and demand they read the good news with an open and honest heart!
remeber all of us stand "alone" before Christ on Judgement day...
-------------------- The ground at Calvary's Cross is level Posts: 1172 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Shouldn't be out spraying graffiti on abortion clinics or down the library tearing pages out of Darwin? Oh god, it's contageous, I'm getting personal.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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jessie, The first thing any person has to do is evaluate their enviorment and cope with it. Palestinians have no ability to do that. At this point it does not even matter who is wrong or right. They'll either accept the best deal they can get or they will suffer and the suffering will increase as time goes by. I was a strong supporter of a Palestinian state , as were many, until they turned down the Clinton deal in '99. They are not going to win our support or a state of their own with suicide bombers and car bombs. Frankly at this point I do not care what happens to them. Freedome is a responsibility and they have to show that they are deserving.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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I am myself alarmed at the increasing violence in that part of the world. Last summer I breathed a sigh of relief when Israel left Gaza..as tough as it was, they stuck to their deal to return the land to the Palestinian people. Now...?? I am wondering what will become of it now. They cannot rely on Egypt or Syrian security forces to control the borders to ensure their own safety. So, they must do as they are doing I suppose. But, why? For the sake of peace and the future of the children...can they (both sides)not stop this insanity?
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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The Israelis have stopped the insanity gypsy. What do you want them to do? they are simply not going to give up land they already control aside from gaza and most of the west bank. Evbery war has a winner and a loser. They fought the good fight and lost, its time now to make a deal. They lack the money and the military power to change the situation. All they will do is get more palestinians killed and make Israel stronger and stronger. My guess is that they are too ignorant to survive and have their own state.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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I understand your point..but for the most part I believe that as humans we can should embrace and love one another, I agree with you that the Palestinian people will certainly suffer and lose more and more up against the Israeli forces...but what will happen---? First we will see, that the young minds who are easily influenced around the world will have more fuel to add to the fire already burning..and the hatred will spread to help their fellow muslim brothers...This will create an even greater problem for Egypt..and Syria...and cause infighting and divide those who reside in these places even moreso. For the innocent, white, christian or jewish kidnapping victim and their families...and the same for an innocent palestinian killed in a bombing..the impact is great...and so...therein lies the problem. One kidnapping...can draw out the largest forces and biggest fears for a nation. The instability will ignite further hatred...and soon enough our peaceful Egypt will see more and more terrorist actions within. Just recently there was a rally by the brotherhood in Cairo at a mosque calling for Holy war...this will not end at all. What shall we do? Not much can be done at this point I agree...except to take a stand for Love. Not hate...not war, but love. Maybe then, when we can love one another..as neighbours will this world be a better place. I know this sounds like idealist BS but that is me and only my opinion. There are decent and hard working human beings on both sides of the political fence and I understand there is hurting and pain everywhere..or else this wouldn't have started in the first place. I wish we could do something--really! So everywhere there could be peace once and for all.
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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I am with you but I think things will get much worse before they get better. For one thing Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan Syria etc could all give the palestinians a small chunk of their land and that would solve the problem. The problem is ...they won't. I really wonder how much those nations really care about the Palestinians? Talk is cheap, wouldn't you say.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Definitely....I would agree...Talk is cheap. But you know--actions speak much louder than words...and by loving another irregardless of his religion..and my nation..being a predominantly peaceful nation... serving as a peacekeeping force for the most part...I hope that sets the stage for the rest of the world to follow. As a peaceful and loving Canadian I reside among people of all nations and religions in my own birth country...and by my own actions--I will hopefully impart love upon others and somehow make a difference here or there. But will this work on a grand scale...or not? There is a movie PAY IT FORWARD..and sadly while there was an enoromous impact...the reality was that the suffering for the individual was great.
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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Keep it up gypsy but be careful that your love of peace does not make you blind to the evil of Islamic terror.
Remember the British lady that had devoted her life to helping poor Iraqis. She had her guts cut out while she was still alive. Remember Nick Byrd who had his head cut off ver slowly so it would be more painful. Remember the two American soliders last month who had their balls cut off and shoved in their mouth and then had their hearts and eyes cut out and their bodies burned.
See, the America haters scream about some guy being spanked at Abu Graib but never say anything about the evil things the other side does. People like jessie support this stuff. Don't let the anti war lefties make you blind to what is really happening in the world.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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You know...you couldn't have said it better. The facts...the reality, the visual you give here--might give everyone a wake up call. But, you know being a nurse...and wanting to always see the best in everyone...sort of leads me into situations that are not always safe. This being said, it is a calling not one for everyone I admit. But, this was my point...one kidnapping or one torture...can cripple the higher powers that be...why? Because of the fear and the uncertainty of where these terrorists live and walk and breathe and here even in my peaceful nation only blocks from my own home--they arrested 50 less than three weeks ago. But, this doesn't change the way I feel. There are good and evil everywhere. I just cannot get inside the minds of these guys...I wonder at the way in which they passionately kill not only others but their own selves for their cause. What can a simple and peaceful person do to get into that dark place that their souls are living?
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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"People like jessie support this stuff. Don't let the anti war lefties make you blind to what is really happening in the world. "
I take being an 'anti war' person as a compliment. I know, you meant it as an insult, haha, what a world we live in........
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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No violence of any kind should be condoned. That is the way I think, and I raise my chilren to think. It is hard to remain neutral..and kind and loving when all around you is falling to pieces...but that in itself is the legacy we will leave behind us.
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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there is nothing remarkable in cherishing merely our own people with the due attentions of love, but that one might become perfect who should do something more than heathen men or publicans, one who, overcoming evil with good, and practicing a merciful kindness like that of God, should love his enemies as well.... Thus the good was done to all men, not merely to the household of faith. (Quoted in Harnack 1908: 1:172-173)
This was revolutionary stuff. Indeed, it was the cultural basis for the revitalization of a Roman world groaning under a host of miseries.
-------------------- The ground at Calvary's Cross is level Posts: 1172 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Excellent article Mike. Such thoughtful responses you make. There is a saying that has to do with... "When all around you is rushing around in circles...and you fear you will be unable to keep up..stand still!" or something like that...perhaps someone knows which poem I am referring to??
Found this lovely poem online....take a read..and how his sentiments reflect that of ours...the human spirit is so full of hope.
John M. Ford's poem
110 Stories
This is not real. We've seen it all before. Slow down, you're screaming. What exploded? When? I guess this means we've got ourselves a war. And look at -- Lord have mercy, not again. I heard that they went after Air Force One. Call FAA at once if you can't land. They say the bastards got the Pentagon. The Capitol. The White House. Disneyland. I was across the river, saw it all. Down Fifth, the buildings put it in a frame. Aboard the ferry -- we felt awful small. I didn't look until I felt the flame. The steel turns red, the framework starts to go. Jacks clasp Jills' hands and step onto the sky. The noise was not like anything you know. Stand still, he said, and watch a building die. There's no one you can help above this floor. We've got to hold our breath. We've got to climb. Don't give me that; I did this once before. The firemen look up, and know the time. These labored, took their wages, and are dead. The cracker-crumbs of fascia sieve the light. The air's deciduous of letterhead. How dark, how brilliant, things will be tonight. Once more, we'll all remember where we were. Forget it, friend. You didn't have a choice. That's got to be a rumor, but who's sure? The Internet is stammering with noise. You turn and turn but just can't turn away. My child can't understand. I can't explain. The towers drain out from Boston to LA. The cellphone is our ganglion of pain. What was I thinking of? What did I say? You're safe? The TV's off. What do you mean? I'm going now, but not going away. I couldn't touch the answering machine. I nearly was, but caught a later bus. I would have been, but had this awful cold. I spoke with her, she's headed home, don't fuss. Pick up those tools. The subway job's on hold. Somebody's got to pay, no matter what. I love you. Just I love you. Just I love -- The cloud rolls on; I think of Eliot. Not silence, but an emptiness above. There's dust, and metal. Nothing else at all. it's airless and it's absolutely black. I found a wallet. I'm afraid to call. I'll stay until my little girl comes back. You hold your breath whenever something shakes. St. Vincent's takes one massive trauma case. The voice, so placid, till the circuit breaks. Ten minutes just to grab stuff from my place. I only want to hear them say goodbye. They could be down there, buried, couldn't they?
My friends all made it, and that's why I cry. He stayed with me, and he died anyway. We almost tipped the island toward uptown. Next minute, I'm in Macy's. Who knows how. I really need to get this bagel down. He'd haul ass, that's what Jesus would do now. A fighter plane? Dear God, let it be ours. We're scared of bombs and so we're loading guns. Who didn't have a rude word for the towers? The world's hip-deep in junk that mattered once. Hands rise to heaven as asbestos falls. The air is yellow, hideously thick. A photo, private once, on fifty walls. A candle in a teacup on a brick. They found -- can you believe -- a pair of hands. Oh, that don't hurt. Well, maybe just a bit. The Winter Garden's shattered but it stands. A howl is Mene Tekeled in the grit. Some made it in a basement, so there's hope. The following are definitely known . . . You live, is how you learn that you can cope. Yes, I sincerely want to be alone. Don't even ask. That's what your tears are for. The cats are in a shelter; we are not. Pedestrians rule the Roeblings' bridge once more. A memory of home is what we've got. Tribeca with no people, that's plain wrong. It's just a shopping bag, but who can tell? Okay, okay, I'm moving right along. The postcards hit two dollars, and they sell. Be honest, now. You're proud of living here. If this is Armageddon, make it quick. Today, for you, the rose is free, my dear. We're shooting down our neighbors. Now I'm sick. I can't do that for fifty times the fare. A coronary. Other things went on. It goes, like, something mighty, and despair. All those not now accounted for are gone. Here is the man whose god blinked in the flash, Whose god says sinful people should be hurt, The man whose god is kneeling in the ash, The man whose god is dancing on the dirt. Okay, I ate at Windows now and then. This fortune-teller went to Notre Dame? They knocked 'em down. We'll stack 'em up again. Oh, I'd say one or two things stayed the same. Some nights I still can see them, like a ghost. King Kong was right about the Empire State. I'd rather not hear what you'll miss the most. A taller building? Maybe. I can wait. I hugged the stranger sitting next to me. So this is what you call a second chance. One turn aside, into eternity. This is New York. We'll find a place to dance.
With resolution wanting, reason runs To characters and symbols, noughts and ones.
Posts: 53 | From: Canada | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by mike rozier: ...lets break this cycle of hatred..just as a heel crushes a serpents head...
And the serpent bites the heel, thus both man and serpent die.
Yet with all the mess that you're starting in the Egyptology section, which one are YOU?? Serpent or man?
Posts: 26248 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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"I will put enmity (hatred, opposition) between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (the woman's seed) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15).
I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel; “As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”; Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel, Since God is marching on. Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.
quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Jessie, There is a solution to this problem. Palestinians need to go get jobs and try to support their families. Take off the silly looking ski masks, put up the AK 47s and act like civilized people. they look like a bunch of wackos running around making threats and shooting their guns in the air. The longer they fight THE MORE THEY LOSE, its as simple as that. Frankly, I lost all respect for the palestinians when they turned down the '99 deal Clinton brokered. Israel is taking a harder and harder line, as they should. If theis keeps up they will end up as little more than slaves in their own land. The war can no longer be won and enough is enough.
you really ARE quite racist, palestinians had jobs and the soceity was very good before their homes and land were stolen. you act as if they deserved what happened to them and that the only solution for everything now is to ignore facts and choose to be inhumane based mostly on the fact that their beliefs don't jive with your own?
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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OOOH Smuckers, thank goodness I'm not here on my own. Can't believe these people. Weird. God, even Condie is getting antsi about the PR implications of this. I'd been thinking that this kind of thing was a small neocon, christian fundamentalist, armageddonist, trailer trash way of thinking, but it looks so 'entrenched' so 'known as fact' [if that makes sense?] Is this really a wide spread opinion in the west?
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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Jessie, you and smuckers have been spending too much time on left wing socialist blogs. The palestinians lack the money and the military assests to achieve their goals. When you inject all of this emotionalism into your foreign policy views it cluods the issues. Everyone has a right, including the palestinians, to fight for their position. The problem is that when you reach a point where those goals are unattainable then it is time to stop. For examply, would it not be absurd for american indians to continue to fight for their lost land?
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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I get it, hope that opinion doesn't come back and bite you on the ass one day, ....or maybe I hope it does.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
posted
well yes Jessie, might is right in the most important sense and it always has been, always will be. Alexander the Great asked Aristotle, "teacher, when do I go to war?" Aristotle replied that you go to war when what you gain by conquest out weighs what you spend. Aristotle also said that the human condition was based on lust, rage and greed. I am affraid he has been proven corect over and over again.
The winner between the jews and Palestinians will be the one who is stronger and has more power. It simply has to be that way. Now, as an American I have to ask myself which position I should take? The answer to that is that i will support the side that is most helpful to the United States. That is the ONLY consideration that can work for any nation in the long run.
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[14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. [15] Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. [16] Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. [17] Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. [18] If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. [19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
-------------------- The ground at Calvary's Cross is level Posts: 1172 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by jessie: OOOH Smuckers, thank goodness I'm not here on my own. Can't believe these people. Weird. God, even Condie is getting antsi about the PR implications of this. I'd been thinking that this kind of thing was a small neocon, christian fundamentalist, armageddonist, trailer trash way of thinking, but it looks so 'entrenched' so 'known as fact' [if that makes sense?] Is this really a wide spread opinion in the west?
I believe when you have an adminstration that has such control over the media the way this one does it isn't surprising the wide spread opinion of (at least) america. Now even America is saying if Hamas releases the solgier that this will all end??? where were they when Israel was bombing families on the beach or flattening entire towns and stacking up the Palestinian bodies? I am the first to say I hope no harm comes to the captured man, it's just amazing to me the way people never think about the fact that Israel has an established country and military (thanks to the aid of countries that aided them) and Palestinian has no real country and no real military so they are militants no matter who is in charge....
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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smuckers, the reason the palestinians are in this position is because of their own hard headedness. They had an opportunity to have a palestinian state in '99 and turned it down. The more they fight the weaker their position becomes. half a loaf is better than nothing but my guess is that its too late now for them to salvage much. If theis keeps up the jews will end up with more and more land. the other problem the Palestinians have is that the other arab nations give them lip service but little else.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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you’re wasting your time. Arguing the Palestine/Israel problem with common North Americans will get you nowhere. I have been reading this thread and burning with disbelief and even on several occasions actually clicked the post reply button and prepared a few replies to the ignorant comments but then common sense kicks in and I realized who I’m speaking with. The media in North America is sooooo one sided, diluted and propagandist that most North Americans have absolutely no idea what is happening. Its no surprise to me that the masses of Americans have this view, what more can I expect of a people that allowed its election system to be hijacked twice consecutively and allows its hijackers then to go to other countries to give them democracy lol while no such thing exists here. Don’t waste your time.
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Hi Jessie, no you are not alone on this. Having lived and worked in the area for a couple of years in the late 70s/ early 80s, have seen a lot of changes, ups and downs, rights and wrongs etc. When the peace treaty was signed in 1978/79 (Cant remember exactly when), we really thought there would be peace. How wrong we were. But why doesnt the rest of the world seem to care about the palestinians? They have their homes taken from them, jobs taken away, land stolen, schools closed, walls built like a ghetto. Why does Israel receive funding from the USA? Makes me angry.
Posts: 1056 | From: UK, Middle East & Europe | Registered: Jun 2006
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I think sometimes that the 'ghettoism' of the Palestinians is due to a deep dark psychological problem amongst not just Israelis but diaspora Jews.[This has been mentioned by many eminent psychologists in Israel too.] 'The jackboot is on the other foot now?' US funding? Simple, political bribe.Media bribe.Military strategy. Turning a blind eye to the funding of the IRA was political bribery too. Americans will dispute this, until they hear it on Oprah.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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redshift, our electorial system was not "hijacked twice," we had a couple of close elections. In 1960 when we had another close election it was the republicans accusing the democrats of stealing the election. Even if the elections had gone the other way our mideast policy would have been the same. As for Palestine there would be no gain for the United States in supporting the Palestinians. Israel is a solid and dependable american ally in the region. In fact, next to the British Israel has been, and I suspect will continue to be our closest ally.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'm British by birth, but do not consider myself an ally of the USA.
Posts: 1056 | From: UK, Middle East & Europe | Registered: Jun 2006
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You may not Dawn but that does not change the fact that the united states and UK are joined at the hip. The American people and government are very pro british. We share a common language and culture and almost always work together. I think it is a deep seated alliance all tied up in the 'mother country' thing. If the british were attacked the united staes would be there as we always have been.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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ISRAEL IS ACTING LIKE THE WORST OF TERRORISTS
The day before the Palestinian assault on the Israeli army post that resulted in the capture of the Israeli soldier, the Israeli army kidnapped two Palestinian civilians: a doctor and his brother, from their home in Gaza.
A Black Flag
By Gideon Levy Haaretz (Israeli newspaper) | July 2, 2006
A black flag hangs over the "rolling" Israeli operation in Gaza. The more the operation "rolls," the darker the flag becomes. It is not legitimate to cut off 750,000 people from electricity. It is not legitimate to call on the 20,000 Palestinians of Beit Hanun and Beit Lahia to run from their homes and turn their towns into ghost towns. It is not legitimate to kidnap half a government and a quarter of a parliament.
A state that takes such steps is no longer distinguishable from a terror organization. The harsher the steps, the more monstrous and stupid they become, the more the moral underpinnings for them are removed.
Everything must be done to win Gilad Shalit's release. What we are doing now in Gaza has nothing to do with freeing him. It is a widescale act of vengeance, the kind that the IDF (Israeli army) and Shin Bet (domestic secret police) have wanted to conduct for some time, mostly motivated by the deep frustration that the army commanders feel about their impotence against the Qassams and the daring Palestinian guerilla raid. There's a huge gap between the army unleashing its frustration and a clever and legitimate operation to free the kidnapped soldier.
To prevent the army from running as amok as it would like, a strong and judicious political echelon is required. Until the weekend lull, it appeared that each step proposed by the army and Shin Bet had been immediately approved for backing.
The only wise and restrained voice heard so far was that of the soldier's father, Noam Shalit, of all people. That noble man called at what is clearly his most difficult hour, not for stridency and not for further damage done to the lives of soldiers and innocent Palestinians. Against the background of the IDF's unrestrained actions and the arrogant bragging of the latest macho spokesmen, Maj. Gen. Yoav Gallant of the Southern Command and Maj. Gen. (res.) Amos Gilad, Shalit's father's voice stood out like a voice crying in the wilderness.
Sending tens of thousands of miserable inhabitants running from their homes, dozens of kilometers from where his son is supposedly hidden, and cutting off the electricity to hundreds of thousands of others, is certainly not what he meant in his understated emotional pleas. It's a shame nobody is listening to the soldier's father, of all people.
The legitimate basis for the IDF's operation was stripped away the moment it began. It's no accident that nobody mentions the day before the attack on the Kerem Shalom fort, when the IDF kidnapped two Palestinian civilians, a doctor and his brother, from their home in Gaza. The difference between us and them? We kidnapped civilians and they captured a soldier, "we are a state and they are a terror organization." How ridiculously pathetic Amos Gilad sounds when he says that the capture of Shalit was "illegitimate and illegal," unlike when the IDF grabs civilians from their homes. How can a senior official in the defense ministry claim that "the head of the snake" is in Damascus, when the IDF uses the exact same methods?
True, when the IDF and Shin Bet grab civilians from their homes - and they do so often - it is not to murder them later. But sometimes they are killed on the doorsteps of their homes, although it is not necessary, and sometimes they are grabbed to serve as "bargaining chips," like in Lebanon and now, with the Palestinian legislators. What an uproar there would be if the Palestinians had grabbed half the members of the Israeli government. How would we label them?
Collective punishment is illegitimate and it does not have a smidgeon of intelligence. Where will the inhabitants of Beit Hanun run? With typical hardheartedness the Israeli military reporters say they were not "expelled" but that it was "recommended" they leave, for the benefit, of course, of those running for their lives. And what will this inhumane step lead to? Support for the Israeli government? Their enlistment as informants and collaborators for the Shin Bet? Can the miserable farmers of Beit Hanun and Beit Lahia do anything about the Qassam rocket-launching cells? Will bombing an already destroyed airport do anything to free the soldier or was it just to decorate the headlines?
Did anyone think about what would have happened if Syrian planes had managed to down one of the Israeli planes that brazenly buzzed their president's palace? Would we have declared war on Syria? Another "legitimate war"? Will the blackout of Gaza bring down the Hamas government or cause the population to rally around it? And even if the Hamas government falls, as Washington wants, what will happen on the day after?
These are questions for which nobody has any real answers. As usual here: Quiet, we're shooting. But this time we are not only shooting. We are bombing and shelling, darkening and destroying, imposing a siege and kidnapping like the worst of terrorists and nobody breaks the silence to ask, what the hell for, and according to what right?
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