posted
As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
The problem with "your" definition is that it is a construct straight out of Arab and European colonialism and color line scheme.
Of course you are wrong, not all Africans adhere to this rubbish so it cannot be a problem between "Africans" and AA. Only problem is your blind acceptance of colonial definitions and lack of knowledge of Nile Valley history.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
The problem with "your" definition is that it is a construct straight out of Arab and European colonialism and color line scheme.
Of course you are wrong, not all Africans adhere to this rubbish so it cannot be a problem between "Africans" and AA. Only problem is your blind acceptance of colonial definitions and lack of knowledge of Nile Valley history.
You think most Africans think like you or must think like you.
Man I was just in the jungles of the South Sudan, in areas where people still walk naked and have no influence whatever from Europeans and Arabs, and they called me white, why are you so white?, they said
Mind you, I am darker than Obama.
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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posted
anyone in america that has black in them are concidered black! my friend she is 1/2 molato but she conciders hherself black to blacks and white to whites! depends on her friends!! i always tell her dont be scared to be who u are! if u was down south u cant be both u would be black cas u have black nappy hair! shes so confused about who she is its not funny!! to me shes a friend. i dont look at her color but if i did i would see someone black! and my dad always taught us if u aint white u aint right!! well i do not agree i have many black friends!! if yr black u should be proud of who u are!!white too.or arab!!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
The problem with "your" definition is that it is a construct straight out of Arab and European colonialism and color line scheme.
Of course you are wrong, not all Africans adhere to this rubbish so it cannot be a problem between "Africans" and AA. Only problem is your blind acceptance of colonial definitions and lack of knowledge of Nile Valley history.
You think most Africans think like you or must think like you.
Man I was just in the jungles of the South Sudan, in areas where people still walk naked and have no influence whatever from Europeans and Arabs, and they called me white, why are you so white?, they said
Mind you, I am darker than Obama.
You are 48 and should by now know the folly of wild generalizations. Your original post generalized about "Africans" thinking a certain way as opposed to AA. That is rubbish. Now, I have no way of knowing what you say about some jungle in Sudan is true. I only know of my experience with many Africans, adn they don’t define black or white in that way.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
The problem with "your" definition is that it is a construct straight out of Arab and European colonialism and color line scheme.
Of course you are wrong, not all Africans adhere to this rubbish so it cannot be a problem between "Africans" and AA. Only problem is your blind acceptance of colonial definitions and lack of knowledge of Nile Valley history.
You think most Africans think like you or must think like you.
Man I was just in the jungles of the South Sudan, in areas where people still walk naked and have no influence whatever from Europeans and Arabs, and they called me white, why are you so white?, they said
Mind you, I am darker than Obama.
You are 48 and should by now know the folly of wild generalizations. Your original post generalized about "Africans" thinking a certain way as opposed to AA. That is rubbish. Now, I have no way of knowing what you say about some jungle in Sudan is true. I only know of my experience with many Africans, adn they don’t define black or white in that way.
In a discussion just a week ago in a sudanese forum, a north sudanese called me halabi, meaning white, although he saw my picture and it is darker than Obama.
I am in Khartoum called "ahmar" red or "asfar", yellow, never black. Most Sudanese, even northerners are much darker in skin than people like me , coming orignially from upper Egypt. This is public info there of the different colours of people, you won't know it, since you are in jamaica.
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: AMR1 do you consider will smith "black"?
Yes, he is defintely not like Jermiah Wright, who looks like the current residents of Egypt, more than any other place.
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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posted
As was predicted we are going round in circles now with how some Africans define black and white. I can't verify what you say about the Sudanese forum, and it is not even necessary to do so since I know that is not how all Africans (including Sudanese) see black and white, which was your original premise.
So with all that said, what do you really want to say to the world AMRI? Honestly. That we must accept your definition of color?
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right? And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
Excellent point AMR1!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: [qb] You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right?
I didn't say anything of the sort since I'm not even fully convinced that Mr. Wright is predominantly Black or not, but if you would demonstrate to me the percentage of his ancestry that is not original among Black people, then I can make a fair judgment. If you're asking me does he LOOK Black to ME, then I'd say yes, he resembles people whom I'd consider Black and who have demonstrable Black/non-white African ancestry.
As far as him being recognized as such in Dakar and Lagos, I couldn't care less since I speak English. The English term for Black may vary from another term which resembles the one I use as a synonym, but isn't as flexible or reflective of the exact definition in the context of the way it is used. I'm not a literalist and believe that such a basis on literal interpretation of a said color is child-like.
quote:And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
A "few" is not the majority and you're entitled to your opinion, but where I live, such is ridiculous so please don't try to forcefully impose this view on AAs, including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know
Who's an "arab-black"? Don't apply your narrow minded concepts on me, "black boy". And i could look like whoopi goldberg or Wesly snipes even idi amin and still have the rights to label myself as how i want. So don't try to impose your plantage mentality on others you indoctrinied fool. By the way i laughed hard on your "blacker skin than most AA's" even if such was the case would that suppose to be something to be ashamed off? Now talk about unconscious self-hate, i bet your those type of "blacks" that roam around and comment on "good hair" you see on other "blacks"
I don't even know how this imbecile with severe anger management problems managed to drag me into a thread and discussion i have nothing to do with, "obsessed with AA's" boo bo bu. lol
Maybe he's still frustrated of mandote owning him on the eritrean thread. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that. [/QB]
Ok he will be offended because he consider himself black and won't like some one else to tell him what he is.
So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt?
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that.
Ok he will be offended because he consider himself black and won't like some one else to tell him what he is.
Exactly, since it is self-evident that he resembles the majority of Africans (most of who he considers "Black") more so than he does the majority of Europeans (most of whom he considers "white")
quote:So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt?
I'm not sure most AAs even concern themselves with Modern Upper Egyptians. Though notwithstanding that many northern sudanese and southern Egypians directly descend from ancientEgypt, is it fair only to acknowledge my initial point about Mr. Wright as it extends to other AAs I believe. It isn't so much that AAs seek to impose their view (as you are doing), but to prevent dichotomies that they deem illogical. In other words, phenotypically and by color, when AAs see pictures of AEs or review studies describing various physical attributes, they see a people whom resemble themselves. One can digress ad infinitum the various shades and features seen among Africans while nit picking which belongs in which category and according to who, but one can't blame AAs for taking a more realistic and simplistic approach to identity. If they see a people whom are more similar to themselves than to all other groups they see themselves surrounded by, then obviously, categorically (not necessarily "racially"), they will choose to use the same terms for them that they use to describe themselves as not to be so complicating or confusing to what they see with their own eyes.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that.
Ok he will be offended because he consider himself black and won't like some one else to tell him what he is.
So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt? [/QB]
So you are now the official spokesperson for the people of upper Egypt and North Sudan? LOL Don't you think that is a little presumptuous? At least from his posts Sundiata never claimed to speak for anyone but himself. Come on man, you are 48 you should act better.
It would be useful to know that the definition of "black" Sundiata adhere to was accepted by black Egyptians even in Marcus Garvey's time since he got his early race education on Pan Africanism from a black Egyptian. So stop trying to essentialise the people of NA. We know they all aren't as ignorant as you.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: As an African, who lived UNTIL 16 IN THE SUDAN and 1/3 of his adult life in the Sudan and the rest in the USA. I am 48 today. I like to say the following, may be the problem between us Africans and African Americans in regard to colour is simple.
We see Jeramiah Wright or Obama, Haille Perry as anything but black, for us to be black, you have to be a pure negroic person with negroic features or leaning to almost literally black colour.
In the other hand Reverand Wright and light skin African Americans will probably kill any one who would call him/them white.
I would add that this is also true in many other regions like LatinAmerica.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up? Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ? Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
Posts: 40 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right? And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
If he were to walk down the streets of Barranquilla Colombia they would not call him black.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up? Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ? Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
You make some very interesting observations.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up?
Maybe you should ask the people who bring it up to an obsessive degree, or those who sense sensitivity as sensitivity may be a feeling that they're used to. Why you're asking me, I have no idea though. Good luck with finding the answer.
quote:Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ?
Obviously there are other Africans on here besides AMR1 and Yonis, so your claims of accusation against ALL Africans who contribute to this forum is overstated in my view, and of course I browse enough to have a qualified opinion on that. Though as far as the accusations against these two specific individuals, I feel history will attest to the fact that it is warranted. Maybe you should ask what is their obsession with African Americans in that they attribute their bitter frustrations to them in every other socio-political bait thread, and not focus your questioning on the African Americans and their counter-parts who respond accordingly to these obsessions.
quote:Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
No, it is that AAs for the most part aren't willing to be taunted by every mindwashed weirdo who seeks to question them on a concept that they didn't even patent. It is evidently spiteful when one speaks disparagingly on those whose purpose is to unify, or speak in unifying terms. A respectful disagreement on worldview is always welcome, but to impose that view and criticize those who don't hold it, is the ultimate dogma. AMR1 accuses some AAS of the same, but I respectfully disagree as was explained above.
quote:Originally posted by USA: [QUOTE]Originally posted by AMR1: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
quote:So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right?
And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
quote:If he were to walk down the streets of Barranquilla Colombia they would not call him black.
If they spoke English they would as the ENGLISH definition of a Black person is clear. Otherwise, they'd be "redefining". Different languages hold different concepts, it is all relative and no one claims that social labels are an exact science, so I don't see your point. "Black" entails someone of predominantly African descent with relatively dark pigment, usually a hue that approaches medium to dark brown. No one is literally Black so this is a redundant conversation.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Again here is the folly of colorism: typical example: African American and Arab Sudanese, some Southern Africans as well are obsessed by colorism...you will find that kind of attitude among people exposed culturally and ethnically to non Africans...but for many Africans...they can't care less about what AMR1 is saying about Blackness in Sudan or what some AA say about Blackness in America or Blackness in South Africa...it's difficult to relate to to those cultures for the average Africans...on top of that those are definitions that only apply to the regions mentioned above...that's it...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:on top of that those are definitions that only apply to the regions mentioned above
That's a lie not only in Africa, but as it concerns the rest of the diaspora. Besides, I've seen you use the term "Black African" on more than one occasion so that must obviously mean that you're from one of the three regions you cite above (?)..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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If you are actually an African, you are a very self-hating one
For one why using the Term negroic (negroid) which are offensive and outdated terms to start off with in describing Africans, but have a problem with the Term Black or Kem when it come to the Black Egyptians
This is another thread which is going nowhere because AMR1 posting then evading and not answering questions.
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:I've seen you use the term "Black African" on morethan one occation
Correct in order to make a distinction with other Africans who have foreign ancestry...but it's subjective...since those same Africans are often viewed either as Black or Metizto in the Americas...again colorism is subjective and the label Black or White is vague all over the world...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up? Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ? Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
You're right, AMR1 his color definitions are similar to Latin American's "racial democracy" color scheme (so there goes his view of it as an "African" phenomena).
But as they are increasingly discriminated against no matter their shade, many Latin American blacks have come to see the folly of this racial democracy sham and are organising more along definitions similar to what Sandiat and myself hold.
This because racial definitions are constructs and keep evolving with situations, they are not concepts set in stone for us to draw lines in the sand between them and say one is 'African" and other "AA" and never should twain meet. That is rubbish and for a man of his age he should know better.
I don't think it too harsh to say he is confused based on his posts, that is what we have to go by anyway. Given his views on AE and use of "negriod" he fits definition of an intellectual dinosaur. It find it incredible with the amount of information today on AE, genetic studies etc, as a black man, he still holds firm to these out dated views. This obviously informs his views on color and AA.
But like Sundiata said the original premise about literal Black makes this whole discussion redundant anyway.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:I've seen you use the term "Black African" on morethan one occation
Correct in order to make a distinction with other Africans who have foreign ancestry...but it's subjective...since those same Africans are often viewed either as Black or Metizto in the Americas...again colorism is subjective and the label Black or White is vague all over the world...
The point is that YOU use the term as well, so to criticize Americans and South Africans who do nothing more than adhere to the same terminology that YOU yourself as a self-described African use, is a bit disingenuous, if not hypocritical. The reason you use it notwithstanding, you still find it useful. I agree though that it is subjective but I assume that most people understand that..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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I am a person who thinks that too much emphaisis is placed on the color of your skin. *ALL* people need to be proud of what ethnicity they are.
I get tired of reading posts from clearly Black people demeen there own selves. *Wake Up* this is part of the plan of the powers that be. Keep us divided on petty things like just who is Black and who is White. We have to move past these differences and realize that we are being fooled to talk about these things instead of uniting. Our world is underattack by the evil men. We the ordinary *PEOPLE* are the majority whether Black, White, Arab , Jew. We have to stop these divisions and talk about us as just one people. It is too bothersome to see blacks infighting over just who is black. You must be above this trap, and realize that it is a *trap*. While the ordinary people are busy arguing between each other the evil people are gaining more and more power. The President of the U.S.A. was proven to of done the devil sign. People we are all underattack the satanist are becoming more and more bold. George Bush, his wife, and the president of Italy were all caught doing the devil sign. These people are *ALL* our enemies they are into the promotion of satanic cults. The dollor Bill of the US has the pyramid with a eye on it. This is a clear cultic symbol. We the people are under attack. We all must unite before it is too late. Stop the color bias and realize that we need unity, coperation, working together and raising the future(children) to be able to change the world. Our values are under attack. Ask yourself why the govenernment puts a petty drug dealer away for a long time in jail, meanwhile a childmolester barely stays in jail and is out. Ask yourself who hurts society more, the drug dealer, or the Molester who ruins the life of a child. Who is more important. The governemet does this on purpose they are lenient on the pervert because they want children to be attacked. Look att all the child molester entertainers. Mikeal Jackson did not serve jail time nor did R Kelly. Also to bring to your attention how serious it is there was back in the 80's a cult that was under a school. The teachers used the Childrens in there cultic practises. They forced the kids to kill animals and drink blood. This is *WAR*
Trust me when I say that the goverenment is trying to corrupt children. Look at music. We have music singing about suicide you have kids singing these songs thinking suicide is okay. We have songs about touch you body which is another song targeted towards kids. The next song you will probably hear is a person promoting Rape.
We Are underattack and need to fight back as one people. We have people walking around promoting death, skull and bones. We have Homeless people saying they are free masons. They are attacking and converting the poor to there evil cults. We as a people must stop the division on color and ethnicity and realize we all in this together. Division is what they use to have us preoccupied while we are hating each other they spread more and more of the devil's hands. We can fight back, but we need to unite and stop this senseless bickering. This is getting more serious. There is evil and good in everything. This war is split. We must fight for Good. The only way we have a chance at winning this war is if we spread the truth. Remember people Freedom, One People, One Love, Bless.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:The reason you use it notwithstanding, you still find it useful.
Sure when you want to make a distinction between African with non African ancestry...that's useful...but those same people with foreign ancestry are viewed as white or black depending on the situation...although I don't adhere to AMR1 ideology he's not lying, there are some similarities with what happens in Latin America, the States have a different view about colorism..
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that.
Ok he will be offended because he consider himself black and won't like some one else to tell him what he is.
So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt? [/QB]
I was wondering when you would get to the REAL point of your post. Took you long enough to get here. And all that for what, just to say Egyptians were Mulattos : a person of mixed white and black ancestry. But now, you have to tell us all: Where did the "White" component come from, and when?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: including Mr. Wright himself who I'm pretty sure would take offense to that.
Ok he will be offended because he consider himself black and won't like some one else to tell him what he is.
So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt?
I was wondering when you would get to the REAL point of your post. Took you long enough to get here. And all that for what, just to say Egyptians were Mulattos : a person of mixed white and black ancestry. But now, you have to tell us all: Where did the "White" component come from, and when? [/QB]
I have married to an Upper Egyptian like me whose family lived in the Sudan for generations. We lived in America together, from 1994-2007, that is besides my High school and College time in America, 1975-1984. We are called African Americans there, except in Virginia, where the white lady at the MVA asked us where are you from, we said North Africa, and she wrote besides our paper Caucasians, although remember I am darker than Obama and my wife is like Jeramiah Wright's skin colour and we belong to the same clan.
So I am honestly concerned with the difference of concept of colour between people from African origin and history.
In the others subject you raised, I think migration to Egypt from non indigneous Egyptians started 200000 years ago, through Egypt to the the East and than some came back to Africa to and through Egypt from libya and the levant. It stopped from the North with the Arabian gulf, becoming a better place to go than Egypt in the 1970's. But the migration from the South to Egypt has not stopped, and that would tilt todays EgyptianS to darker skin people in the near future. EXCEPT MIGRATION TRENDS CHANGE AGAIN
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I'm curious as to what is the problem and why is there so much focus on AA's? It seems to me that AA's are not bringing these problems to the board/thread but those who have hatred for AA's.
Let us try to simplify the problem or even figure out what is the root to the problem ...
1.)AA's call themselves BLACK and because the least amount of the AA population have extremely light skin, all of them shouldn't call themselves BLACK.
2.) Blacks call themselves African Americans? Does the word African in front of American pose a problem?
3.) We have the crowd who doesn't like for AA's to call themselves BLACK and then we have the crowd who don't like for BLACKS to call themselves African Americans ...
4.) Those who have African ancestry should totally avoid or reject their Africa heritage because their hue does not live up to the 'purist' philosophy of what constitutes black or white for that matter. Thus those who have African Heritage along with European heritage should reject both and proclaim a new race such as mulatto. huh! We all know that they can't do that because there is no such thing as race. Secondly, there is class of people who have different admixtures and levels of mixing. Some are Native America and African, Asian/African, Oceania/African as myself so do I call myself a MESTIZO AND OR CABLINASIAN--> (ca = Caucasian bl = Black in = Indian asian = Asian)? I just recently found out on my fathers mother side, I have a 5th generation European grandfather though I'm as dark as Africans. Logically, Cablinasian would fit my discription because I have Asian, African, Native American & European in my blood. Yet I choose to call myself African American and if i was in Africa you wouldn't know the difference.
Here is the problem with # 4:
1.) CA's & AA's would bury this individual with there intellectual sophistication on matter of history and genetics. They rip a whole in this person for not accepting their African Heritage, yet some wish this to be the case.
2.) Europeans would laugh in his/her face for even thinking about calling themselves white and thus hang him/her or tie a rope around their necks and drag them through city hall until their think tank severs from their body.
3.) If they call themselves muwallad (Arabic for mixed person), Mulatto or some other degrading name, then it seems both parts would be satisfied. Many light-skinned AA's, as they choose be identified would not go for this and you can be sure that those who choose to call themselves Euros wouldn't go for it. Thus they are stuck in limbo because their are those who choose not to allow them to make their own choice as to how they want to be seen.
Current statistics suggest that 72 to 75% e.g. 3/4 of AA's don't have any European ancestry. What this suggest is that these Blacks have no difference in them then the current residence of West, Central and Southern Africans. So then the question I ask to foolish ones /// Why shouldn't these African American be identified as Black, tho it is necessary to call West, Central and Southern Africans Blacks?
Secondly, if their heritage can be traced to Africa through genetics and historical documentation, then why can't they use the name African American? They identify themselves as Americans as well because they are residents of America, but they are acknowledged genetically and historically as Africans living in a foreign land. The word African is not just a geographical term, but it deal with genetics, history, and linguistics (Americans have accepted some words that are West African ... example the word 'guy' and more). They have no European DNA flowing through their vein yet they cannot identify with their ancestors who were stripped from Africa .... hummm ...
Its funny how when some research African living in other areas that have been far removed from Africa, they are readily identified as African living in a foreign land, but those living in the Americas can get no acknowledgment from some Africans.
This is not about color or the label of AA, this is about a personal issue with people who accept their African heritage no matter what their percentage of African it is, and likewise accept each other no matter how light or dark their skin may be.
People who have nothing better to do trip over such foolish issues and people like USA strive to cause strife between DA's & CA's (Diaspora & Continental Africans). It is a waste of time to focus on the little people, but it is time well spent focusing on the bases of Egyptology & Ancient Egypt forum on this site.
Peace!~
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
AMR1 - Sorry to say; you are not only a victim of Caucasian race politics, but also a victim of Caucasian education.
On the matter of the woman in Virginia: because of your complexion, she was assuming (probably correctly) that you are partly of Turkish ancestry. Therefore, she thought herself being nice, by giving you the benefit of the doubt. And that's O.K. I have no problem with that, you can be whatever you want to be.
My problem comes about, when people like you, and people like the pure blood Turks and other Europeans of north Africa, then want to turn around and claim Egyptian or Mesopotamian heritage. You want to be seen as White, but still claim credit for the accomplishments of pure Black people. As you have no doubt seen from the threads on this board, we are not going to let you do that.
As to the laughable history that you recited, do you really believe that, or was that just something to say? That's a serious question: I am constantly perplexed by the inability of some, to comprehend (get their minds around), some of the concepts discussed on this board. To me; the inability to believe that the people who enslaved you, and destroyed your civilizations, might lie to you about your history: it's well, just sad.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Moreover, AMRI amd his ilk are not descendants of the indigenous peoples of ancient Khem or Kush. If they were, they could not have forgotten their history and replaced the memory with such contempt and hatred for all things African (Khemitic, Kushite and Phutite), in order to embrace the cultures and religions of West Asian and European invaders, slavers and settler/colonisers.
Having said this, as a West African, this will be all I have to say on a Thread started by an 'African' that has no immediate blood ties, if at all any, to the descendants of the Middle Passage that curently reside in the Caribbean and Americas.
Posts: 387 | From: England, UK | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Jo Nongowa - While I understand and agree with your sentiment, I don't agree with your statement. You are forgetting the effect of religion. For over a thousand years, Islam was the religion of, and controlled by the Turks. Do you think that they were teaching the glories of Blacks?
Of course not, they were doing the same thing that the Whites who took over the Hebrew religions were doing. They were teaching that they were the creators of all, therefore the earlier creators must have been just like them, White. How many Black Jesus' have you seen, even in Black Churchs?
Which brings me back to my earlier point. With all the information currently available, which clearly demonstrates that all the ancients were Black, which necessarily includes the Hebrews, why do so many have a problem with a Black Jesus. Think about that; To me it demonstrates the Stockholm syndrome to an extreme degree.
Which means that all considerations of own: including race, family, group, history, are subservient to, and projected onto, the one who has power over you, the White man.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by USA: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up?
Maybe you should ask the people who bring it up to an obsessive degree, or those who sense sensitivity as sensitivity may be a feeling that they're used to. Why you're asking me, I have no idea though. Good luck with finding the answer.
quote:Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ?
Obviously there are other Africans on here besides AMR1 and Yonis, so your claims of accusation against ALL Africans who contribute to this forum is overstated in my view, and of course I browse enough to have a qualified opinion on that. Though as far as the accusations against these two specific individuals, I feel history will attest to the fact that it is warranted. Maybe you should ask what is their obsession with African Americans in that they attribute their bitter frustrations to them in every other socio-political bait thread, and not focus your questioning on the African Americans and their counter-parts who respond accordingly to these obsessions.
quote:Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
No, it is that AAs for the most part aren't willing to be taunted by every mindwashed weirdo who seeks to question them on a concept that they didn't even patent. It is evidently spiteful when one speaks disparagingly on those whose purpose is to unify, or speak in unifying terms. A respectful disagreement on worldview is always welcome, but to impose that view and criticize those who don't hold it, is the ultimate dogma. AMR1 accuses some AAS of the same, but I respectfully disagree as was explained above.
quote:Originally posted by USA:
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
quote:So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right?
And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
quote:If he were to walk down the streets of Barranquilla Colombia they would not call him black.
If they spoke English they would as the ENGLISH definition of a Black person is clear. Otherwise, they'd be "redefining". Different languages hold different concepts, it is all relative and no one claims that social labels are an exact science, so I don't see your point. "Black" entails someone of predominantly African descent with relatively dark pigment, usually a hue that approaches medium to dark brown. No one is literally Black so this is a redundant conversation.
Perhaps there is some history on this subject that I as a new poster am unaware of, but the unnessarily defensive answers just stood out to me. Just witness my post regarding Alicia Keys in another thread, it got quoted over and over all with the same type of defensiveness.
In my experience, I don't think other nationalities try to impose their views on blackness on AA's, they just comment, compare/contrast on the different ways this label evolved and is used. Sometimes one's own ethnocentric views on this are apparent, such as a thread I read on here about the 'white' Asians and the "black' Asians???
Now to address your Colombian/AA post:
I think you missed the main point. Here is a very brief and generalized summary of what I mean:
In the USA: Due to the One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a manicheastic way, which developed a bi-polar white or black dichotomy. This rule was developed and imposed by the Eurodescendants upon AA's to keep black and white seperate. One drop of black blood made you black.
In LatinAmerica: No One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a color continuum. One drop of black blood did not make you black, it made you something else. Likewise no reverse onedroppism, one drop of white blood made you something else.
To use a crayon example I read on another forum: Gray is composed of black and white. Gray is neither black or white. In the USA, Gray was called black. In LatinAmerica, gray was called gray.
Thus if a sufficiently mixed/lighskinned (Jeremiah Wright, Alicia Keys, etc.) AA who is considered black in the USA is in Colombia (just randomly standing there) and someone yells out "el negro", they would completely miss them.
That was the main point. But you are correct in the observation that if let's say Alicia Keys went on concert in Colombia, they know she is an American singer, so they would not use their definition of black on her and call her AfroAmericana (the USA term). But is she was a native Colombian, they wouldn't label her black.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Apr 2008
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1-I am darker than Obama, my kids look identical to the people in the pictures of the tombs of Egypt and you tell me, you have nothing with Ancient Egypt, Mike.
2-I know I have berber blood, which has European blood, I know 300 years ago, we got an Arab blood in our family. But this does not make us, the direct descendants of Ancient Egypt?, plus others.
3-Neither do I think my darker colour make me directly related to Ancient Egyptians than fair skin Egyptians. Because I know I have a Nubian blood. The fair skin Egyptians probabbly don't have Nubian blood or less of it, but more mixed with Northern neighbours. Mixed with Nubians versus Europeans does not give me more rights to Egypt than the other Egyptians, mixed more with Europeans .
4- Egypt was never a pure race.
All explorations show that people moved out of Africa and back to Africa for 200 thousand years, through Egypt, so how can Egypt ever be of a pure race?
Egypt is not Congo to be able to stay pure, it is sitting in the most or at least one of the most important passage of human migrations through History.
Posts: 1090 | From: Merowe-Nubia | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: AMR1 - Sorry to say; you are not only a victim of Caucasian race politics, but also a victim of Caucasian education.
On the matter of the woman in Virginia: because of your complexion, she was assuming (probably correctly) that you are partly of Turkish ancestry. Therefore, she thought herself being nice, by giving you the benefit of the doubt. And that's O.K. I have no problem with that, you can be whatever you want to be.
My problem comes about, when people like you, and people like the pure blood Turks and other Europeans of north Africa, then want to turn around and claim Egyptian or Mesopotamian heritage. You want to be seen as White, but still claim credit for the accomplishments of pure Black people. As you have no doubt seen from the threads on this board, we are not going to let you do that.
As to the laughable history that you recited, do you really believe that, or was that just something to say? That's a serious question: I am constantly perplexed by the inability of some, to comprehend (get their minds around), some of the concepts discussed on this board. To me; the inability to believe that the people who enslaved you, and destroyed your civilizations, might lie to you about your history: it's well, just sad.
The lady in Virginia was following the rules, she saw we are clearly a family that would be called black in America.
But in her booklet, in Virgnia DMV, any one who is North African is a Cacusian. That was in 1996. Some complained, may be they changed it by now.
They have been programed, they can't help themselves.
quote:Originally posted by USA:
In LatinAmerica: No One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a color continuum. One drop of black blood did not make you black, it made you something else. Likewise no reverse onedroppism, one drop of white blood made you something else.
To use a crayon example I read on another forum: Gray is composed of black and white. Gray is neither black or white. In the USA, Gray was called black. In LatinAmerica, gray was called gray.
Thus if a sufficiently mixed/lighskinned (Jeremiah Wright, Alicia Keys, etc.) AA who is considered black in the USA is in Colombia (just randomly standing there) and someone yells out "el negro", they would completely miss them.
That was the main point. But you are correct in the observation that if let's say Alicia Keys went on concert in Colombia, they know she is an American singer, so they would not use their definition of black on her and call her AfroAmericana (the USA term). But is she was a native Colombian, they wouldn't label her black. [/QB]
USA - what you say is technically correct, but at the same time, it is dis-ingenious. The population demographics of Latin America is of a mixed-race people. Except for Chile, though Whites have the power and wealth, the majority is non-white. Therefore racial politics could not possibly be the same.
If on the other hand, you are trying to suggest that there is no racial discrimination in Latin America, then you are sadly mistaken. Additionally, Latin America has the greatest incidence of racially obsessed and confused people in the world.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by USA: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up?
Maybe you should ask the people who bring it up to an obsessive degree, or those who sense sensitivity as sensitivity may be a feeling that they're used to. Why you're asking me, I have no idea though. Good luck with finding the answer.
quote:Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ?
Obviously there are other Africans on here besides AMR1 and Yonis, so your claims of accusation against ALL Africans who contribute to this forum is overstated in my view, and of course I browse enough to have a qualified opinion on that. Though as far as the accusations against these two specific individuals, I feel history will attest to the fact that it is warranted. Maybe you should ask what is their obsession with African Americans in that they attribute their bitter frustrations to them in every other socio-political bait thread, and not focus your questioning on the African Americans and their counter-parts who respond accordingly to these obsessions.
quote:Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
No, it is that AAs for the most part aren't willing to be taunted by every mindwashed weirdo who seeks to question them on a concept that they didn't even patent. It is evidently spiteful when one speaks disparagingly on those whose purpose is to unify, or speak in unifying terms. A respectful disagreement on worldview is always welcome, but to impose that view and criticize those who don't hold it, is the ultimate dogma. AMR1 accuses some AAS of the same, but I respectfully disagree as was explained above.
quote:Originally posted by USA:
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
quote:So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right?
And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
quote:If he were to walk down the streets of Barranquilla Colombia they would not call him black.
If they spoke English they would as the ENGLISH definition of a Black person is clear. Otherwise, they'd be "redefining". Different languages hold different concepts, it is all relative and no one claims that social labels are an exact science, so I don't see your point. "Black" entails someone of predominantly African descent with relatively dark pigment, usually a hue that approaches medium to dark brown. No one is literally Black so this is a redundant conversation.
Perhaps there is some history on this subject that I as a new poster am unaware of, but the unnessarily defensive answers just stood out to me. Just witness my post regarding Alicia Keys in another thread, it got quoted over and over all with the same type of defensiveness.
In my experience, I don't think other nationalities try to impose their views on blackness on AA's, they just comment, compare/contrast on the different ways this label evolved and is used. Sometimes one's own ethnocentric views on this are apparent, such as a thread I read on here about the 'white' Asians and the "black' Asians???
Now to address your Colombian/AA post:
I think you missed the main point. Here is a very brief and generalized summary of what I mean:
In the USA: Due to the One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a manicheastic way, which developed a bi-polar white or black dichotomy. This rule was developed and imposed by the Eurodescendants upon AA's to keep black and white seperate. One drop of black blood made you black.
In LatinAmerica: No One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a color continuum. One drop of black blood did not make you black, it made you something else. Likewise no reverse onedroppism, one drop of white blood made you something else.
To use a crayon example I read on another forum: Gray is composed of black and white. Gray is neither black or white. In the USA, Gray was called black. In LatinAmerica, gray was called gray.
Thus if a sufficiently mixed/lighskinned (Jeremiah Wright, Alicia Keys, etc.) AA who is considered black in the USA is in Colombia (just randomly standing there) and someone yells out "el negro", they would completely miss them.
That was the main point. But you are correct in the observation that if let's say Alicia Keys went on concert in Colombia, they know she is an American singer, so they would not use their definition of black on her and call her AfroAmericana (the USA term). But is she was a native Colombian, they wouldn't label her black.
It's all a matter of domestic culture/customs and it's interpretation, we are all raised in different societies and all societies have different views on different matters. That's why i find it redicoulas when some posters here speak of "Africans don't, or Africans do think this way" since Africa has never had a monolithic opinion on anything(neither has Asia or europe). What might be obvious in Sudan or Eritrea can be seen as strange and weird in Djibouti or Kenya. Also i personally have noticed that some posters here have no tolerance for others way of thinking on "racial"/ethnical matters but think that their opinion is suppose to be universal and selfevident, basically it's their way or the highway. Which is quite an infantile approach if you think about it, reminds me of fascism and cultural imperialism.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt?
If you're not Black and you're not White, then what are you?
Posts: 262 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Jo Nongowa wrote: ^ What's your point?
They have been programed, they can't help themselves.
quote:Originally posted by USA:
In LatinAmerica: No One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a color continuum. One drop of black blood did not make you black, it made you something else. Likewise no reverse onedroppism, one drop of white blood made you something else.
To use a crayon example I read on another forum: Gray is composed of black and white. Gray is neither black or white. In the USA, Gray was called black. In LatinAmerica, gray was called gray.
Thus if a sufficiently mixed/lighskinned (Jeremiah Wright, Alicia Keys, etc.) AA who is considered black in the USA is in Colombia (just randomly standing there) and someone yells out "el negro", they would completely miss them.
That was the main point. But you are correct in the observation that if let's say Alicia Keys went on concert in Colombia, they know she is an American singer, so they would not use their definition of black on her and call her AfroAmericana (the USA term). But is she was a native Colombian, they wouldn't label her black.
USA - what you say is technically correct, but at the same time, it is dis-ingenious. The population demographics of Latin America is of a mixed-race people. Except for Chile, though Whites have the power and wealth, the majority is non-white. Therefore racial politics could not possibly be the same.
If on the other hand, you are trying to suggest that there is no racial discrimination in Latin America, then you are sadly mistaken. Additionally, Latin America has the greatest incidence of racially obsessed and confused people in the world. [/QB]
Your first sentence " USA - what you say is technically correct" directly answers my post and confirms that it is on point.
The rest of your post is the typical response I previously stated (full of assumptionts of things I've not addressed or implied/stated) Much wrong with what you said but this is off topic.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AMR1: So why you African Americans are trying to impose on me and my people of upper Egypt and North Sudan that you are black, while I consider myself neither black or white and neither were my ancestors in ancient Egypt?
If you're not Black and you're not White, then what are you?
He's a northern sudanese. It's not necessery to chose between these two social constructs. As if the world is all about "white" or "black" and no room for anything else. Try to see things beyond your own backyard for once, geez.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by USA: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Sundiata: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
What is it with these sensitive highly defensive replies whenever this subject is brought up?
Maybe you should ask the people who bring it up to an obsessive degree, or those who sense sensitivity as sensitivity may be a feeling that they're used to. Why you're asking me, I have no idea though. Good luck with finding the answer.
quote:Why is it that everytime I read a post from a non-USA view of how they socially define black and/or comment on the US's definition of it they immediately get accused of: 1) Self-Hate 2) Wanna be/worshipping Arabs or Whites 3) Confused mixed person ?
Obviously there are other Africans on here besides AMR1 and Yonis, so your claims of accusation against ALL Africans who contribute to this forum is overstated in my view, and of course I browse enough to have a qualified opinion on that. Though as far as the accusations against these two specific individuals, I feel history will attest to the fact that it is warranted. Maybe you should ask what is their obsession with African Americans in that they attribute their bitter frustrations to them in every other socio-political bait thread, and not focus your questioning on the African Americans and their counter-parts who respond accordingly to these obsessions.
quote:Is it that AA's think that their 'blackness' is being challenged? Or somehow diminished?
No, it is that AAs for the most part aren't willing to be taunted by every mindwashed weirdo who seeks to question them on a concept that they didn't even patent. It is evidently spiteful when one speaks disparagingly on those whose purpose is to unify, or speak in unifying terms. A respectful disagreement on worldview is always welcome, but to impose that view and criticize those who don't hold it, is the ultimate dogma. AMR1 accuses some AAS of the same, but I respectfully disagree as was explained above.
quote:Originally posted by USA:
quote:Originally posted by AMR1: You brain drained Black Arabs kill me with your obsession with AAs. Yonis for one, has bigger, dried up lips and Blacker skin than most AAs I know (his face looks like a fat black prune), yet somehow is offended by his own "Blackness". It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
quote:So you are saying if Jeramiah Wright walks the streets of Dakar, or Lagos, he will be considered black, right?
And I am from the few Africans who will consider him almost white?
quote:If he were to walk down the streets of Barranquilla Colombia they would not call him black.
If they spoke English they would as the ENGLISH definition of a Black person is clear. Otherwise, they'd be "redefining". Different languages hold different concepts, it is all relative and no one claims that social labels are an exact science, so I don't see your point. "Black" entails someone of predominantly African descent with relatively dark pigment, usually a hue that approaches medium to dark brown. No one is literally Black so this is a redundant conversation.
Perhaps there is some history on this subject that I as a new poster am unaware of, but the unnessarily defensive answers just stood out to me. Just witness my post regarding Alicia Keys in another thread, it got quoted over and over all with the same type of defensiveness.
In my experience, I don't think other nationalities try to impose their views on blackness on AA's, they just comment, compare/contrast on the different ways this label evolved and is used. Sometimes one's own ethnocentric views on this are apparent, such as a thread I read on here about the 'white' Asians and the "black' Asians???
Now to address your Colombian/AA post:
I think you missed the main point. Here is a very brief and generalized summary of what I mean:
In the USA: Due to the One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a manicheastic way, which developed a bi-polar white or black dichotomy. This rule was developed and imposed by the Eurodescendants upon AA's to keep black and white seperate. One drop of black blood made you black.
In LatinAmerica: No One Drop/Hypodescent rules, social race evolved/developed in a color continuum. One drop of black blood did not make you black, it made you something else. Likewise no reverse onedroppism, one drop of white blood made you something else.
To use a crayon example I read on another forum: Gray is composed of black and white. Gray is neither black or white. In the USA, Gray was called black. In LatinAmerica, gray was called gray.
Thus if a sufficiently mixed/lighskinned (Jeremiah Wright, Alicia Keys, etc.) AA who is considered black in the USA is in Colombia (just randomly standing there) and someone yells out "el negro", they would completely miss them.
That was the main point. But you are correct in the observation that if let's say Alicia Keys went on concert in Colombia, they know she is an American singer, so they would not use their definition of black on her and call her AfroAmericana (the USA term). But is she was a native Colombian, they wouldn't label her black.
It's all a matter of domestic culture/customs and it's interpretation, we are all raised in different societies and all societies have different views on different matters. That's why i find it redicoulas when some posters here speak of "Africans don't, or Africans do think this way" since Africa has never had a monolithic opinion on anything(neither has Asia or europe). What might be obvious in Sudan or Eritrea can be seen as strange and weird in Djibouti or Kenya. Also i personally have noticed that some posters here have no tolerance for others way of thinking on "racial"/ethnical matters but think that their opinion is suppose to be universal and selfevident, basically it's their way or the highway. Which is quite an infantile approach if you think about it, reminds me of fascism and cultural imperialism.
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It goes with out saying that AMR1's Arab bias is at the root of his infatuation with lighter skinned people than himself, so I'd let him slide. He merely submits to Arab peer pressure and is willfully submissive to their ideology, which is why he takes the comments of a handful of Africans and caricatures the entire continent while imposing his distorted concepts on AAs and other continental Africans as if we/they need to adhere to them.
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