quote:Originally posted by Bogled-booty: So basically you are arguing that although "Moses" was African none of the stories, themes, concepts in a script, ascribed to his authorship, is African. LOL And this is not being ANTI-AFRICAN?!? LOL
Again, I never said "non". But in terms of actual spritual beliefs and mythologies, can you point out any concepts that are African as in Egyptian?? You tried to in the previoius page of this thread but failed miserably. Sorry but acknowledging Hebrew mythology as Asian is not being "anti-African".
quote:LOL You have not "proven" anything dumbass. All you have done is present one source of influence on the Hebrew culture, while forgetting there were many sources. What a bird brain you are.
LOL The only dumbass is YOU, since you can't figure out that Ebla is NOT a source of "influence" but a very source of Hebrew culture including spiritual beliefs, period! What roach brain you are for not getting this! By the way, the link you cite to only proves my point. Again no one denys Egyptian influence in terms of certain traditions but the core spiritual beliefs that make Judaism what it is is Asian.
quote:And of course forgetting also that according to their own tradition, the founder of Judaism (i.e. Hebrew mythology) was African.
Nope. Moses is considered the author of the Torah, but the myths and stories of the Torah documenting the history and origins of the Hebrew stem from Asia not Egypt or Africa where they lived for a time. The word "Hebrew" itself is associated with the eponymous ancestor Eber who is said to come from Haram (Syria). Again, the Ebla texts are clear source of all these religious traditions and myths, NOT Egypt!
quote:The Ebla tablets you like to inflate were written in a Sumerian script, religion of the region primarily Canaanite. So its basically a Sumerian import. So whatever Biblical similarities in these near eastern civilizations [especially around this time] can easily be attributed to ancient Egypt we know that Sumerian and Canaan cosmology (creation myth etc) is to large extent an outgrowth of ancient Egypt, see Massey, Diop, Barashango just to name a few. There was no near eastern civilization around this time that can claim independence and purity from ancient Egypt.
Nope. Of course the Ebla texts were written in Sumerian script since the people of Ebla had no script of their own however the actual language it was expressed in was Canaanite showing that the early Hebrews were essentially Canaanites. And we know that Canaanite and definitely Sumerian myth is NOT an outgrowth of Egypt but is independent! The only thing Diop and Massey are right about is that Semitic language and culture are derived from Africa but pre-Egyptian Africa via Afrasian!! Again, appeal to authority on Africanist scholars cannot save you! Diop and others were right about some things but wrong about others. Of course no doubt me pointing out some of their errors makes me "anti-African" in your eyes doesn't it?? Even though you are really just a punk-ass white boy pretending to be Afrocentrists and hiding your jewphobia behind the likes of Diop and Massey! LOL
quote:These "Asian" civilizations did not spring up independent and autonomous from the worlds first civilization in the Nile Valley and you are alone in arguing this - well you have company in Lefkowitz your teacher Not Out Of Africa.
Don't you mean Lefkowitz YOUR beloved mistress who you love mentioning so often, not I!! Actually her premise was about Greek civilization springing independently, I'm talking about Southwest Asia!! And I never said Southwest Asian civilization developed independently as well since we all know the neolithic development there was also a result of African forbearers likely proto-Semitic speakers!
quote:Sorry mary, the Hebrews were influenced by Africa [in fact they say their founder/law giver was African and indirectly from Africa through places like Sumer and Canaan. And of course according to their own tradition, the founder of Judaism (i.e. Hebrew mythology) was African. LOL
Sorry sodomized wap, but I'm not "Mary" and I never denied Hebrews influenced by Africa. What I do deny or rather acknowledge any absent evidence of is that Hebrew mythology and cosmology is Egyptian when it clearly is not! I presented all the evidence above yet all you do now is try to 'Egyptianize' those sources when there is non to speak of like the desperate little liar you are! LOL Oh and all the gremlins sticking their tongues out certainly won't help either.
quote:See sources above moron.
What sources? You just cite the names of authors. How about citing their works that verify anything! My oh my, one would think you would at least know how to properly cite actual works or writings, but apparently I overestimated your dumbass.
quote:Other stuff like monotheism, genesis, proverbs, serpent and staff symbolism, temple structure, rituals, laws, Ark of the Covenant, a literate priesthood? I already defeated you with them.
LOL Really? where?! It's been explained to you in several pages already that Monotheism came about much later in Israel and Egyptians weren't even monotheistic! I've proven to you that the Genesis story is West Asian and not Egyptian, serpents are not sacred in Judaic belief, rituals are Canaanite so are laws including dietary restrictions against certain animals which the Egyptians didn't have. Literate priesthood, all the ancient peoples of the Levant had that. The only thing you have is 'Proverbs' and temple structures which I never denied.
quote:LOL This is a lie of course, not even the defenders of the Elba tablets say this.
Then let me correct myself-- The Garden of Eden, the Flood, and the names of Patriarch ancestors and tribal settlements are found in Elba. Are any of these found in Egypt??
quote:Already exposed this straw.
Exposed it where?? You realize that true monotheism happend much later in Israelite history, before that they were henotheistic acknowledging the existence of other deities-- non of which by the way were Egyptian.
[quoter]Oh how it must pain you to admit this much while condescendingly down playing their relevance. You are the liberal version of Dirk, Kemp et al. I have indeed succeeded in exposing your lilly white liberal racist ass! LOL [/QUOTE]LMAO
The ONLY thing you succeed in doing is psychologically PROJECTING!! The only white liberal here is obviously YOU who gets insulted everytime someone has somethng negative to say about your European heritage! Don't even play wap! Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: But in terms of actual spritual beliefs and mythologies, can you point out any concepts that are African as in Egyptian??
Pretending you weren't beatdown on this before won't help you.
quote: Ebla is NOT a source of "influence" but a very source of Hebrew culture including spiritual beliefs, period!
Again, not even the defenders of the texts say this.
quote:the early Hebrews were essentially Canaanites.
No! You don't say!
quote:And we know that Canaanite and definitely Sumerian myth is NOT an outgrowth of Egypt but is independent!
Not true. Diop, Massey, Breasted, Barashango, Van Sertima etc etc all contradict you. Early "Asian" civilisations were black and heavily influenced by Nile Valley/ Africa.
quote: Again, appeal to authority on Africanist scholars cannot save you!
Dismissing them without being able to back up your position (like you did Prof. James) never saved you! LOL
quote: Of course no doubt me pointing out some of their errors makes me "anti-African" in your eyes doesn't it??
No, you dismissing them without evidence makes you anti-African.
quote: I've proven to you that the Genesis story is West Asian and not Egyptian
No you haven't. LOL
quote: serpents are not sacred in Judaic belief
This is a straw.
quote: rituals are Canaanite so are laws including dietary restrictions
LOL Yet another straw. Hebrew tradition says all this was introduced by and AFRICAN, not a Canaanite.
quote: Literate priesthood, all the ancient peoples of the Levant had that.
Straw.
quote: The only thing you have is 'Proverbs' and temple structures which I never denied.
A lie.
quote: Then let me correct myself
You mean let you take your foot out of your mouth! Go ahead, it's not like it's the first time for you. LOL
quote: The Garden of Eden, the Flood, and the names of Patriarch ancestors and tribal settlements are found in Elba.
Poor you, relying on old debunked news. The initial media sensationalism over the Elba texts have since been deflated (see Chavalas and Younger, 2003). Sorry, you have in no way "proven" that "the religious and spiritual traditions of Jews can all be traced to their Hebrew ancestors at Elba" much less your other imbecilic claim of an African author of the Torah copying "Asian" stories and giving it to the Hebrews. LOL
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bogle: Diop, Massey, Breasted, Barashango, Van Sertima etc etc all contradict you. Early "Asian" civilisations were black and heavily influenced by Nile Valley/ Africa.
What bioanthropological evidence supports your claim that early Southwest Asian civilizations were established by people with an Africoid phenotype?
Posts: 7083 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Early SW Asian looked like black people, with cosmology similar to their kin in Africa/Nile Valley. Again, if you have evidence that by the time the Sumerians (civilisation) came on the scene they morphed into whites or white Arab-looking please post it.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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I've posted these three works time and time again but they go ignored (or feared) because they deflate the lie that Hebrew theology is not African.
quote: Edward H. Sugden Israel's debt to Egypt London: The Epworth Press, 1928
W.O.E Oesterley The Wisdom of Egypt & the Old Testament In the Light of the Newly Discovered 'Teaching of Amen-Em-Ope London/New York; Toronto: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge; Macmillan, 1927.
T. Eric Peet Egypt and the Old Testament Boston: Small, Maynard & Co., 1923
The biggest lie is assigning the Arabian Peninsula and the abutting lands north up to the Taurus/Zagros mountain chains as part of the Asian continent when geologically they are not. This lie is what allows for removing the Hebrews and other Semitic speakers from their African context.
Europe on the other hand is a part of Asia, yet no one but no one ever questions Europe as a separate continent all of its own.
Show me the Siberians, Kamchakta, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Phillipinos, Malays, Laotians, Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Myanmar, Tibet or Nepal peoples who even remotely have a language, culture or religion minutely approaching that of the Israelites.
posted
I've posted these three works time and time again but they go ignored (or feared) because they deflate the lie that Hebrew theology is not African.
quote: Edward H. Sugden Israel's debt to Egypt London: The Epworth Press, 1928
W.O.E Oesterley The Wisdom of Egypt & the Old Testament In the Light of the Newly Discovered 'Teaching of Amen-Em-Ope London/New York; Toronto: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge; Macmillan, 1927.
T. Eric Peet Egypt and the Old Testament Liverpool: University Press of Liverpool ltd., 1922 Boston: Small, Maynard & Co., 1923
Europe on the other hand is a part of Asia, yet no one but no one ever questions Europe as a separate continent all of its own.
Show me the Siberians, Kamchakta, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Phillipinos, Malays, Laotians, Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Myanmar, Tibet or Nepal peoples who even remotely have a language, culture or religion minutely approaching that of the Israelites.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Truth is, ever since page two on this thread Mary never had an argument to begin with. She exposed herself when she tried to dismiss Prof. James as silly [without being able to back it up of course] as well as the massive Egyptian influence on Judaism and Greek classical philosophy. Apart from her reliance on lies, straws, old disproven exaggerations and thread evasions, she got nothing. Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^ LOL Truth is of course there is no "Mary" here. "Mary" is the imaginary Jewish lady you run from in your mind. This is DJEHUTI a man and true scholar. Now address me unless you are too scared. Who do fear more? Me or your Lady Jew??
quote:Originally posted by Bogled booty: Pretending you weren't beatdown on this before won't help you.
LOL Um I wasn't! Pretending I somehow got a "beatdown" from you definitely won't save your sorry ass! Again, tell me what Hebrew mythologies are Egyptian in origin?? We've gone over this in the last page but apparently you are too stubborn and too stupid to admit defeat!
quote:Again, not even the defenders of the texts say this.
LOL Really and what "defenders" do you speak of?? I smell the stench of desperate face-saving lies! Ebla is actually the very first evidence of Hebrew/Israelite people.
quote:No! You don't say!
Well, I've said alot of things, but apparently they all fly over your sexually abused little mind.
quote:Not true. Diop, Massey, Breasted, Barashango, Van Sertima etc etc all contradict you. Early "Asian" civilisations were black and heavily influenced by Nile Valley/ Africa.
Again I never said early West Asian civilizations weren't black but obviously they were still Asian. And as far as heavily influenced by Africa it's called Semitic. But that is besides the point that the mythological traditions and spiritual beliefs are still in situ derived and not Nile Valley unless you can prove this and not cite authors with vague statements that I never disputed, like the desperate loser you are!
quote:Dismissing them without being able to back up your position (like you did Prof. James) never saved you! LOL
LOL Of course because I don't need saving unlike YOUR sorry ass! You see I don't dismiss any Africanist scholar entirely. It depends on the position and point. Even many here agree that while some of these early Africanist scholars were correct on some things they were inaccurate about other things. It all depends on what it is and last time I checked non of these scholars say that wholesale ancient Israelite or other Asian cultures were mere rip-offs of Egyptian culture, dickfungus!
quote:No, you dismissing them without evidence makes you anti-African.
But I provided the evidence you, fool!
quote:No you haven't. LOL
Yes I have! Again on the previous page or has your dumb ass forgotten?!
quote:This is a straw.
No your whole argument is a straw and one covered in excrement and anal mucus no doubt from being stuffed in your over-sodomizedass!
quote:LOL Yet another straw. Hebrew tradition says all this was introduced by an AFRICAN, not a Canaanite.
LOL by an African I suppose you mean Moses, of course he and the Israelites technically were Africans in that they've been living in Africa but that does not negate the fact that they were originally from the Levant or the fact that these traditions are specific to peoples in the Levant and NOT indigenous Egyptians or Africans! Which makes YOUR argument the broken straw! LMAO
quote:Straw.
Is what YOUR argument was from the start and a broken one at that! LOL
quote:A lie.
Is all you have to make yourself feel good!
quote:You mean let you take your foot out of your mouth! Go ahead, it's not like it's the first time for you. LOL
Nope! I've never done that. You see, I need to be specific because I know your subtle slimyass (no doubt from all the lubricants) loves to distort my words unless I put them in specific context like you did with many of my quotes.
quote:Poor you, relying on old debunked news. The initial media sensationalism over the Ebla texts have since been deflated (see Chavalas and Younger, 2003). Sorry, you have in no way "proven" that "the religious and spiritual traditions of Jews can all be traced to their Hebrew ancestors at Ebla" much less your other imbecilic claim of an African author of the Torah copying "Asian" stories and giving it to the Hebrews. LOL
Poor YOU cuz you are too stupid to realize that you were debunked again on the previous page of this thread. Again I urge you to take a look to jog up that boggled mind of yours. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I've posted these three works time and time again but they go ignored (or feared) because they deflate the lie that Hebrew theology is not African.
quote: Edward H. Sugden Israel's debt to Egypt London: The Epworth Press, 1928
W.O.E Oesterley The Wisdom of Egypt & the Old Testament In the Light of the Newly Discovered 'Teaching of Amen-Em-Ope London/New York; Toronto: Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge; Macmillan, 1927.
T. Eric Peet Egypt and the Old Testament Boston: Small, Maynard & Co., 1923
The biggest lie is assigning the Arabian Peninsula and the abutting lands north up to the Taurus/Zagros mountain chains as part of the Asian continent when geologically they are not. This lie is what allows for removing the Hebrews and other Semitic speakers from their African context.
Europe on the other hand is a part of Asia, yet no one but no one ever questions Europe as a separate continent all of its own.
Show me the Siberians, Kamchakta, Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Phillipinos, Malays, Laotians, Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Myanmar, Tibet or Nepal peoples who even remotely have a language, culture or religion minutely approaching that of the Israelites.
I understand what you are saying Takruri. I know that Europe is merely a subcontinent of Asia and I never denied that. I also know that the Arabian peninsula and Levant all the way of to the Zagros is geologically part of the African plate although now that it is melded with Asia now which is another reason why the seperation of human populations from African to non-African even though humans just entered that area only relatively recently is more absurd! And I'm sure you also know that I acknowledge that that Semitic language and culture is also African and I deny no connection between the Semitic cultures of Hebrews Arabs and others to Africa, but the issue is whether Hebrew culture entirely is a direct by product of Egypt, which of course it isn't! It's obvious the jew-frightened fag just wants to discredit ancient Jewish culture.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Boggled-booty in another thread: i'm not the one claiming purity you jewish nazi (zionist). how idiotic! lol
LMAO Just because I claim I'm not of recent African ancestry means I claim some racial purity, moron!! Speaking of idiotic, I can't help but notice your typical white liberal jewphobic remark of "jewish nazi (zionist)" which is a self-contradiction if ever there was one! You realize that Jews are the victims of nazims and zionism itself only sprang from the oppression of nazis?! So how can zionism be nazism?? That's like some one calling an Africanist black a KKK! LOL
But I don't expect your ignorant dumb white degenerate-ass to know anything. Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: Really and what "defenders" do you speak of??
Yep, just as I thought. No clue about the texts.
quote: But that is besides the point that the mythological traditions and spiritual beliefs are still in situ derived and not Nile Valley unless you can prove this
I, great jew, Evergreen already beat you down on this. However it can never constitute "proof" to people like you or Lefkowitz; your Not Out Of Africa ideology precludes this.
quote: last time I checked non of these scholars say that wholesale ancient Israelite or other Asian cultures were mere rip-offs of Egyptian culture
Neither did I, you desperate lying Philipino. LOL
quote: Yes I have
Dufus, you have in no way proven that the Hebrew "genesis story" was "Asian". You show similarities to "Asian" mythology, I showed Egyptian similarities.
quote:of course he and the Israelites technically were Africans in that they've been living in Africa but that does not negate the fact that they were originally from the Levant or the fact that these traditions are specific to peoples in the Levant and NOT indigenous Egyptians or Africans!
So again your position is that an African, "technically", gave "technically Africans" Asian stories. You defeated jackass! LOL
quote: Poor YOU cuz you are too stupid to realize that you were debunked again on the previous page of this thread. Again I urge you to take a look to jog up that boggled mind of yours.
Yep, just as I thought. No answer to the fact that you were peddling wild exaggerations long debunked. LOL
quote:Semitic language and culture is also African
Wow. Great Jew is truly great. Only he can force this about-face from a stubborn jackass like you. What ever happned to your Hebrew cultre=Asian (Ebler/Syria) not Egyptian/African squirming?
quote:the issue is whether Hebrew culture entirely is a direct by product of Egypt
WAAHAHAHAH
No that is not the issue Mary and you know it! That is your straw after you were thoroughly thrashed!!! LOL
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: You realize that Jews are the victims of nazims and zionism itself only sprang from the oppression of nazis?! So how can zionism be nazism??
Zionism predated Nazism you ignorant jackass; and they are mirror ideologies hence their alliance during WW2. Aren't you tired of looking like an imbecile Mary?
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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How is it now melded with Asia when the Taurus/Zagros chain is there as a solid geographical barrier separating the original languages and cultures? The only reason the people aren't so separated is that EurAsians passed the Daryal Gorge to invade the Arabian plate. The fact is Islam partially semitized Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, western Pakistan and the 'Russian-stans' more thoroughly than did transposed Israelites and their way of life.
Of course ancient Israel 'spirituality' was not 100% borrowed from Egypt. But none of it came from Asia except the names of the angels came from Persia. What's true is that large parts of it are a joint heritage of the Arabian plate peoples of the Tigris, Euphates, and Orontes.
But that was before Egypt. After becoming a nation in Egypt and alledgedly being led by a former prince of Egypt (which is the greater part of their history) there is a decided Egyptian bent to much of the way of life. The milk and meat regulations, menstrual taboo, and the like are familiar all along the Great Rift the geological/geographical feature uniting the Arabian plate with NE Africa unlike the way the mountains keep Asia apart from the Arabian Plate.
I know it's easier said then done yet we have to try hard not to allow trollers to goad us into hasty rash statements.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
I understand what you are saying Takruri. I know that Europe is merely a subcontinent of Asia and I never denied that. I also know that the Arabian peninsula and Levant all the way of to the Zagros is geologically part of the African plate although now that it is melded with Asia now which is another reason why the seperation of human populations from African to non-African even though humans just entered that area only relatively recently is more absurd! And I'm sure you also know that I acknowledge that that Semitic language and culture is also African and I deny no connection between the Semitic cultures of Hebrews Arabs and others to Africa, but the issue is whether Hebrew culture entirely is a direct by product of Egypt, which of course it isn't!
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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LMAO @ Great Jew taking on stubborn Mary who is trying to sneak in Asia through the back door. You fight for your Asia girl! lol
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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I apologize if anyone already mentioned this but apparently according to Mohamed Moses was black. I wouldn't really care and I'd have to ask why did Mohamed find it important to tell everyone this but perhaps that was the Arabic way of saying Moses was African/Egyptian. Also importantly some Muslims hold Moses and Mohamed on the same level but opinions differ between people
quote:Another reason we are raising this awareness of the appearance of the original Arabs is so that it can be clear to all who are prejudice against dark skin and all who look down on dark skin that they are prejudice against and looking down on the Prophet Mohamed's people and family and they are also prejudice against and looking down on other prophets. I have proven on this website that the Arabs were a black-skinned people. All Muslims should also know that the Prophet Moses was black-skinned because the Prophet Mohamed described him as black-skinned. What I am saying here on this website are not things that I have made up. Everything that I am saying is written clearly in the reliable books of the past. The question is, why are people ignoring these things?
quote:To the Jews Muhammad was indebted for almost all the stories and many of the laws in the Quran. This, with strange misunderstandings, gives a large part of pre= Christian religious history. Moses, e. g., was a black man! Abraham is represented as directing his children about Islam, the true religion, and is accounted the first Penitent (Hanif), the founder of the Muslim faith in its present form.
quote:6. We protest Muhammad's being revered over Abraham, Jesus, Moses, and all of God's prophets and messengers. God bless and honor them all!
7. We also protest the fact that the terms "the prophet" and "the messenger" are only used for Muhammad, giving him preference over God's other prophets and messengers.
quote:8. Lastly we protest against belief in the Hadeeth as absolutely true accounts of Muhammad's words and his companions' words, because they not only contradict each other but they also contradict the Koran. The Koran says that Muhammad revealed nothing but the Koran. There are also Hadeeths that say that any saying other than the Koran that came from Muhammad's mouth should be erased. With all of the above in mind ProGod.org questions why anyone would still insist that Muhammad's, or any of God's messengers', examples can be accurately found in these Hadeeths?
posted
^ We are talking about the origins of Hebrew or ancient Israelite religious mythology and beliefs. Boggled-ass claims it comes from the Nile Valley but as can be read in the past several pages it doesn't. This not to say there was no Egyptian influence at all on Israelite tradition, but as far as actual mythology including cosmology and cosmogony it is obviously Canaanite with obvious Mesopotamian motifs.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The most well researched and best book on this topic is the book below winner of the 1993 "Best Scholarly Book in Archaeology" awarded by the Biblical Archaeological Society ___________________________
EGYPT, CAANAN, AND ISRAEL IN ANCIENT TIMES BY DONALD B. REDFORD
Princeton University Press (September 20, 1993)
ISBN-10: 0691000867
512 pages __________________________
In this book Redford argues that the experiences of the Hyksos in Egypt became a central foundation of myths in Canaanite culture, leading to the story of Moses. He further argues that many of the details in the Exodus story are more consistent with the 7th century BC, long after the time of King David, rather than the era when the event is described as having taken place. He also provides evidence in the book of dissenting arguments.
you can search some of the book here on Amazon link:
Donald B. Redford (born September 2, 1934) is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies at Pennsylvania State University. He is married to Susan Redford, who is also an Egyptologist currently teaching classes at the university. Professor Redford has directed a number of important excavations in Egypt, notably at Karnak and Mendes. Along with his wife Susan Redford, he is the director of the Akhenaten Temple Project. Redford's work in editing The Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt, published in 2001, earned the American Library Association's Dartmouth Medal for a reference work of outstanding quality and significance. Since 2006 he is also in the editorial board of RIHAO.
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and indirectly from Africa through places like Sumer and Canaan. And of course according to their own tradition, the founder of Judaism (i.e. Hebrew mythology) was African. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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