posted
This post should be directed towards Arrow99..I haven't denied any of the genetic evidence of African ancestory in Greece. I was commenting on the need to push this over and over again to Europeans that want to deny it that's all and the ethics of Afrocentricity.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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the Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, indicating that these genes had their origin in West Africa. - Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP
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^ It is of the utmost importance according to historians:
One can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters (McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia - Larry Angel.
It's 'your' posts that are devoid of 'importance', Arrow.
No importance, no relevance, no substance and no meaning.
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The quote you posted from Larry Angel does not make the issue of historical importance. Even if all this silliness were correct it would still not be important, certanily not to the historical era. In terms of pre history you do not have enough data to fill up a thumble.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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You listen rasol. You seem to have a real problem reading the english language. I did not argue with Larry Angel. I said the topic was of little or no historical importance. Even if all of your radical afrocentric rascist babble on the subject were correct IT STILL WOULD NOT BE IMPORTANT to the historical era.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: More from the same thread mentioned above: The Sir Arthur Evans labelled "Captain of the Blacks" fresco. In this repro they've deliberately excluded the head of the first black runner but you can see it on p.137 if you have The Image of the Black in Western Art vol. 1.
I have the book. Sorry I took so long.
Late Minoan II art [Frank Snowden] Dated 1500-1450 B.C. [Source]
.
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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The earliest inhabitants were the Cycladic Greeks and Minoan Greeks. The islanders were essentially Greeks. They were heavily influenced if not almost identical culturaly to Egyptians.
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I must also report that there is a white asiatic group of people that were found in northern cyprus and in several regions in anatloia.
They are white but display two anomalies. One they have tight curly hair like African Negro but are not ata all related. The have mesomorphic bodies and mediteranean features ie medium length faces with rounded heads. From several pictures and from several paintings I am starting to get the idea that these easily tanning individuals were depicted as black despite being of this Anatlian type of stock possibly asiatic. They share teh same features with several Meso-American and South American tribes.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Jan 2007
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Negro is the classic endomorphic black negro, the typical mesomorphic Europeans have also a very small group of Afro type hair. Tight curly hair and yet their features and body are all typical european. They can have many generations of children without any having such hair and then many generations later it appears. The colour of the skin is consistant with mediteranean Europeans ie they tan much more easily and darker but in cold places can turn as white as scandinavians. The typical longer face found in mediteranean people along with slightly asiatic light frame are indicative of this almost extinct group. They are thought to be the early Cycladic people or Sea People. The Tight Curly hair has nothing to do with coming out of africa theory, it just happens that of the three human types Lybian, European and Asian that all three can develop characteristics of any group. That is why we are all ultimately of the same ancestoral family.
All this is suggesting that even if the Cycladic Greeks had the same culture as Egypt it doesnt mean that Africa developed its culture indepednantly from Greece. Infact Minoans and Mycenae as well as Cycladi Greeks were probably instrumental in the development of the Egyptian civilisation. In otherwords you could also say at several points in develeopment of civilisation that the Egyptian culture was like the Cycladic and proto-Hellenic culture. However, it is clear from history and from archaeology that Egypt became what it was not because of African society and civilisation but due to the fact many civilisations passed through Egypt again towards 3000-500BC. It was the re-unifiaction of peoples in Egypt that ultimately created a surge of great development in EGypt and Africa during this period.
So in accordance with what has been traditionally considered as part of early pagan faith the Greeks were always where they are today. They never came from anywhere. If you are talking at the very very begining then egypt would possibly be their closest starting point. Although what was Egypt? was it all the lands to its East that border with teh Med? Did the term Egypt initially mean all the eastern med including Greece and the islands?Was Egypt only the southern or northenr part of the nile?
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quote:Originally posted by Ephestion: Negro is the classic endomorphic black negro,
^ The 'new' foolishness.
This is typical of the nonsense rhetoric of race - in which people throw arcane terms around hoping no one notices that they haven't a clue as to what the terms actually mean.
One of the things that make toying with you fun "professor" is that you are a Eurocentrist pseudo scholar who is probably ignorant of almost every facet of scholarship that might be associated with and actual college degree ['probably' you are and american high school flunk out].
All scientific theory is rooted in probability.
When a scientist states that something is 'probably' true, it is a very strong statement.
It must be based on a *preponderence* of evidence - ie - probability - not a lack of evidence.
In science - a lack of evidence means that you do not even have, a proper theory.
But then, you don't understand even elementary principals of science do you?
Here I'll show you:
30 years ago, anthropologist Larry Angel said there was probably a migration from Africa to Greece in the Neolithic.
Genetics has confirmed that Larry Angel was probably right.
Now, you probably hate this fact.
But, you probably don't understand genetics.
You are probably also extremely lazy and will never bother to read Larry Angel's study - beyound what I 'spoon feed you'.
But then, you're probably and idiot who hasn't a prayer of refuting Larry Angel's work even if you read it.
Deep down, you probably know this, and that is one reason you don't even bother to read it.
It would be like Forest Gump reading Albert Einstein, probably a waste of his 'precious' time.
For all these reasons, all of your pleading posts in all probability accomplish nothing except to make you look like the empty headed racist fool you probably are.
But don't feel insulted, after all...I said 'probably'.
Like Professor Angel, I base probability on the case evidence.
And having said that, I rest my case.
Good day Professor.
I never said what a good post this was, but although hore isn't the brightest apple in the bunch, or really that bright of an apple to begin with, you made a good point.
A common fallacy is that science is absolute.
It's not, but close, and that that's a truth.
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Originally posted by Ephestion: Negro is the classic endomorphic black negro,
^ The 'new' foolishness.
This is typical of the nonsense rhetoric of race - in which people throw arcane terms around hoping no one notices that they haven't a clue as to what the terms actually mean.
posted
Yup, the ancient Greeks were black. Everyone is black. The earth is black. black is black. Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black. Lets rename this forum to BlackSearch and discuss the blackness of black in everything relating to blacks in every topic about anything black. Hey wait a minute! Those smiley icons to the left seem to have a black african origin or some sort of influence because some of them are darker which means... Oh wait computers were developed by blacks in Africa and exported across the lands to...oh crap im black and I just built a pyramid! Thank you Black jesus!!!! Damn the Eurocentrists for forcing me to type in the english language but how could that be when English is African in origin! The Eurocentrists are actually European blacks keeping their African brothers down. Stop Black on Black crime. Peace out! Word Posts: 32 | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Supercar
quote:
The archaeological evidence points to only a few reasonable certainties about Minoan history. Around 3000 BC, Crete was settled by a people who probably came from Asia Minor, who, by 2000 BC was already living in cities, trading with other nations in the Mediterranean, and employing a hieroglyphic system of writing, probably derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics. This hieroglyphic writing would eventually evolve into a linear script. They built magnificent palace centers at Knossos, Phaistos, and Kato Zakros; these palaces seem to have dominated Cretan society. We have no idea what language they spoke, but they certainly spoke a non-Hellenic language (that is, a language not closely related to Greek) and probably spoke a non-Indo-European language. "
You are right they did speak a none Indo-European language.
There is evidence for the Minoan language. The language they spoke was related to the Mande group of languages. These Mande speakers formerly occupied a large part of the Fezzan ( in modern Libya)before they migrated to the Niger river valley. The Mande languages are members of the Niger-Congo Superfamily of languages.
Every since Arthur Evans discovered the Hieroglyphic and Linear A writing of Crete there has been a search for the authors of this writing.
Some Grecian traditions indicate that Libyans (called Garamante) formerly lived on Crete. This suggest that some of the Eteocretans may have spoken one of the ancient languages of Libya.
A major group from Libya that settled Crete were the Garamante. Robert Graves in (Vol.1, pp.33-35) maintains that the Garamante who originally lived in the Fezzan fused with the inhabitants of the Upper Niger region of West Africa.
This theory is interesting because the chariot routes from the Fezzan terminated at the Niger river. In addition, the Cretan term for king "Minos", agrees with the MandeManding word for ruler "Mansa". Both these terms share consonantal agreement : M N S.
The name Garamante, illustrates affinity to Mande morphology and grammar. The Mande language is a member of the Niger-Congo group of languages. The name for the Manding tribe called "Mande", means Ma 'mother, and nde 'children', can be interpreted as "Children of Ma", or "Mothers children " (descent among this group is matrilineal) .
The word Garamante,can be broken down into Malinke-Bambara into the following monosyllabic words Ga 'hearth', arid, hot'; Mante/Mande , the name of the Mande speaking tribes. This means that the term: Garamante, can be interpreted as "Mande of the Arid lands" or "Arid lands of the children of Ma". This last term is quite interesting because by the time the Greeks and Romans learned about the Garamante, the Fezzan was becoming increasingly arid.
Keftiu
The Egyptians called the Cretans Keftiu. There is agreement between the Keftiu names recorded by Egyptian scribes (T.E. Peet, "The Egyptian writing board BM5647 bearing Keftiu names". In , (ed.) by S Casson (Oxford, 1927, 90-99)), and Manding names.
Keftiu The root kef-, in Keftiu, probably is Ke'be, the name of a Manding clan , plus the locative suffix {i-} used to give the affirmative sense, plus the plural suffix for names {u-}, and the {-te} suffixial element used to denote place names, nationalities and to form words.
On the Egyptian writing board there are eight Keftiu names. These names agree with Manding names:
Keftiu....... Manding
sh h.r........ Sye
Nsy ..........Nsye
'ksh .........Nkyi
Pnrt Pe,..... Beni (name for twins)
'dm ..........Demba
Rs............. Rsa
This analogy between Keftiu and Manding names is startling.
In conclusion, the evidence of similarity between Keftiu names and names from the Manding languages appear to support Graves view that the Eteocretans, who early settled Crete may have spoken a language similar to the Mande people who live near the Niger. Conseqently, there is every possibility that the Linear A script used by the Keftiu, which is analogous to the Libyco Berber writing used by the Proto-Mande .
See:
C. A. Winters, "The influence of the Mande scripts on ancient America", de l'IFAN>, t59, serB, no.1, (1977) pp.941-967.
C.A. Winters, "The ancient manding Script", In , (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, ( London: Rutgers University Press Transaction Press , 1981) pp.208-214), may be written in an aspect of the Manding (Malinke/Bambara) language.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Tutemkasret
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genetics makes no links between any black Africans and historicc Greeks , of any kind. I asked you to prove that over and over and all you could say is that the genes are there with NO specifics to prove your case.
The roots of Greek civilization was African. The original founders of Grecian civilization were dark pigmented Pelasgians.
Although these people of the Heroic age came from diverse origins, the Aryan-Greeks called them Pelasgians. According to the Greeks, the first man was Pelasgus--ancestor of the Pelasgians. The Pelasgians were a combination of different Black tribes called Achaeans, Cadmeans, Leleges, Carians or Garamantes.
The term Pelasgian was applied to all these pre-Hellenic inhabitants of Greece. R.J. Hopper, in The Early Greeks, noted that "indeed the classical Greeks believed in the separate existence of diverse ethnic elements side by side, and thought particularly of the Pelasgians in this connection".
According to tradition, the Pelasgians inhabited Arcadia and many Aegean Islands. These Blacks took their own writing to Greece which was later used by the Aryan-Greeks. According to Herodotus quadrigas or four-horse chariots were introduced to Greeks by the Libyans .
The Aryan-Greeks adopted the language of the Pelasgians and Egyptians. The linguistic evidence shows that there was a differentiation of Greece into East Greek and West Greek. The Black Greeks spoke East Greek (Achaioi or Achaean). West Greek was spoken by the Dorian or Aryan Greeks. The earliest Aryan tribe called Ionians spoke a dialect of East Greek called Aeolic.
Many classical scholars teach the world that the Greek language is entirely Indo-European. This view of Greek is wrong.
Dr. Anna Morpurgo Davies, has made it clear that "less than 40% of the words which have an Indo-European etymology". According to Dr. Davies, 52.2 % of the Greek terms in Chantraine's Dictionnaire Etymologique de la langue Grecque (1968) have an unknown etymology. The mixed nature of the Greek language results from the early settlement of the Aegean by Blacks from Africa, especially Egypt and Libya.
Some of these words are of African origin. Robert K.G. Temple, in The Sirius Mystery, shows that many of the most common words of the Greek vocabulary are of Egyptian origin. Diop (1991) has also discussed the Egyptian origin for many Greek terms.
Given the fact that the Greek language lacks full cognation with Indo-European languages proves that Indo Europeans were not the founders of Greecian civilization. To know Greece, we must look to Egypt and the rest of Africa to explain the origin of this civilization.
There is also genetic evidence that supports and African origin for the Greeks. Check out this papers:
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks.
Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K,Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gomez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V,Martinez-Laso J.
Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@...
HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances,neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese,Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by AlexandertheConqueror: Yup, the ancient Greeks were black. Everyone is black. The earth is black. black is black. Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black Black. Lets rename this forum to BlackSearch and discuss the blackness of black in everything relating to blacks in every topic about anything black. Hey wait a minute! Those smiley icons to the left seem to have a black african origin or some sort of influence because some of them are darker which means... Oh wait computers were developed by blacks in Africa and exported across the lands to...oh crap im black and I just built a pyramid! Thank you Black jesus!!!! Damn the Eurocentrists for forcing me to type in the english language but how could that be when English is African in origin! The Eurocentrists are actually European blacks keeping their African brothers down. Stop Black on Black crime. Peace out! Word
^ No need to act foolish 'Alexander'. No one says the ancient Greeks were black persay, BUT there is evidence that they share mixed ancestry-- some of which is from Africa.
Such evidence came first from physical anthropology where there are skeletal remains dating from the Neolithic around the Aegean all the way to mainland Greece. These remains showed African affinity.
Recent evidence in the form of genetics first from Spanish immunologist Arnaiz-Villena in his study of HLA genes in Greeks. We also have genetic studies showing the origins of sickle cell anemia in Greeks to be also of African origin. And finally the African Y-chromosomal lineage E3b was also found among the Greek population. All of these genes and/or genetic markers all date from the same time period as the skeletal remains-- the Neolithic. The Neolithic was the very time period that agriculture and animal domestication was introduced to Europe, specifically Greece!
Now, at first glance you may think this all a bunch of Afrocentric nonsense but I assure you these are all facts and not everyone on this forum is black, let alone Afrocentric (that includes ME)!
Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Sigh, this is a thread to get straight to the point cause when we made the point in passing mention, the fool littered the forum with foolishness, so we exposed him as a fool.
What's you problem fool?
I feel you but you don't feel us.
The fact of blackness in some of the great cultures of the world is one of the most suppresed "facts" in the world.
Here, we don't except that trash.
I do however tire of nubians, dynastic European races, and nubian caucasoids.
quote:Originally posted by Alexander the pointless: Yup, the ancient Greeks were black. Everyone is black. The earth is black. black is black. [...] Lets rename this forum to BlackSearch and discuss
What a great idea! Glad we could be of service to you to help foster such an idea.
quote:Originally posted by Alexander the pointless:
[...]The Eurocentrists are actually European blacks keeping their African brothers down. Stop Black on Black crime.
Word G.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Recent evidence in the form of genetics first from Spanish immunologist Arnaiz-Villena in his study of HLA genes in Greeks. We also have genetic studies showing the origins of sickle cell anemia in Greeks to be also of African origin. And finally the African Y-chromosomal lineage E3b was also found among the Greek population. All of these genes and/or genetic markers all date from the same time period as the skeletal remains-- the Neolithic. The Neolithic was the very time period that agriculture and animal domestication was introduced to Europe, specifically Greece!
Now, at first glance you may think this all a bunch of Afrocentric nonsense but I assure you these are all facts and not everyone on this forum is black, let alone Afrocentric (that includes ME)!
To be honest, I am skeptical of the Arnaiz-Villena study. The Greeks cluster even closer to sub-Saharans than Siwa Egyptians, when simple geography would dictate the reverse! I can't argue with the other data though.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Recent evidence in the form of genetics first from Spanish immunologist Arnaiz-Villena in his study of HLA genes in Greeks. We also have genetic studies showing the origins of sickle cell anemia in Greeks to be also of African origin. And finally the African Y-chromosomal lineage E3b was also found among the Greek population. All of these genes and/or genetic markers all date from the same time period as the skeletal remains-- the Neolithic. The Neolithic was the very time period that agriculture and animal domestication was introduced to Europe, specifically Greece!
Now, at first glance you may think this all a bunch of Afrocentric nonsense but I assure you these are all facts and not everyone on this forum is black, let alone Afrocentric (that includes ME)!
To be honest, I am skeptical of the Arnaiz-Villena study. The Greeks cluster even closer to sub-Saharans than Siwa Egyptians, when simple geography would dictate the reverse! I can't argue with the other data though.
There lies the problem. To be skeptical of something, you ought to know what you are specifically disagreeing with. Sounds to me like the skepticism driven by dogma instead of science.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Professor "Arrow"-head wrote: And you base all of these contentions on PROBABLY and yet claim to be some sort of scholar
^ So here we have Professor Arrow, a self-described scholar not understanding that all science is based on probability, and not absolutes [as is the case with some religous doctrine].
So he attacks Professor Larry Angel's use of the word 'probably', and imagines it to be a form of doubt-casting on Angel's scholarship...when it actually evidences Arrow's own dubious intellect.
Yes probably....and given the precense of Benin Hbs sickle-cell autosome, and 24% African paternal ancestry in modern Greece.... Angel was probably right.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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^ Of course, but as to T-rex's question I can see that the study depends on what type of genes is being studied. Simply put, the African genes that Greeks possess are not shared by *all* African groups.
Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Where do these genes come from - if not from Africa?
Or better yet, since these genes ARE African, how did Greeks inherit them- if not from Africans?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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victoria rowell with her biological mixed race daughter,who somewhat resembles my mixed race cousin,must be the prominence of the teeth.
No shock to imagine greeks having remote african origins.If within my own family the overt africaness has dissapated within one generation it can also in them.
our african ancestry is the damara from namibia,the mpondomise from the eastern cape,the khoisan,and one from zanzibar.Though my cousin does not have damara ancestry.
I can't tell if lauding up the afro-asiatic origins of greece is an attempt to diminish the enormous achievements of those descended from the germanic,celtic,slavic groups who have contributed so much to our current state? That seems to be the fear though of many.
Or is it simply a desire on our part [those of us of african ancestry] to have a stronger presence within history because we are so largely dismissed?
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Supercar [QUOTE]
Keftiu
The Egyptians called the Cretans Keftiu. There is agreement between the Keftiu names recorded by Egyptian scribes (T.E. Peet, "The Egyptian writing board BM5647 bearing Keftiu names". In , (ed.) by S Casson (Oxford, 1927, 90-99)), and Manding names.
Keftiu The root kef-, in Keftiu, probably is Ke'be, the name of a Manding clan , plus the locative suffix {i-} used to give the affirmative sense, plus the plural suffix for names {u-}, and the {-te} suffixial element used to denote place names, nationalities and to form words.
On the Egyptian writing board there are eight Keftiu names. These names agree with Manding names:
Keftiu....... Manding
sh h.r........ Sye
Nsy ..........Nsye
'ksh .........Nkyi
Pnrt Pe,..... Beni (name for twins)
'dm ..........Demba
Rs............. Rsa
This analogy between Keftiu and Manding names is startling. Black Greeks
Clyde Winters
^^Up
Interesting post,those Keftiu heads remind me of Akan heads -
posted
Africa is the germ of the world.What did the whitest of white [the germanic,baltic groups et al] contribute before being blessed [literally] with mediterranean influence which has an afro-asiatic root.It's like saying your grandmother has no value or contribution to your current existence.
The lithuanians and other balts have the highest blonde populaces in europe [yes more than sweden] yet what enormity did they contribute? they did'nt even have a written language till the 16th century,and only thanks to hordes of religious foreigners and Roman Catholicism - they were the last to give way to this influence.They currently enjoy the highest suicide rate in the world.
The same story across europe,religious foreigners come and the wood huts come down.
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Most of us accept the idea that man spread out of Africa to thge rest of the world. The problem is that the argument rasol and others want to make here is beside the point. What they are trying to do is imply that Africa is the germ of the modern world. Thats the MOTIVE for their argument and where they end up at the end of the day. They skip over tens of thousands of years like it was a generation. The hard xold reality is that nothing positive ever came out of Africa. If African civilization as we know it made any meaningful contribution to the world how did it miss totally Africa generally? Fact is classical Greeks are not black africans, they are europeans. Every single Greek scholar bar none states that their culture was home grown. To attach any sort of African tag on an area of Greece is nutty stuff that will never be accepted by serious scholars. It would be tragic if it were not so comical. We have people on this board who are critical of Dr Hawass because he does not support their narrow, racist, bigoted views even though he has a PHD and they lack even a BA. Really, its the argument of losers. People who feel that they are not a part of the modern world and see themselves as victims. "Nothing is my fault, its the fault of the evil, colonialist Europeans." Since I have no place in the system I will simply attack it. The problem is the system doess not care. If the eurocentrists are really as bad as they are presented here why should they listen now?
quote:I can't tell if lauding up the afro-asiatic origins of greece is an attempt to diminish the enormous achievements of those descended from the germanic,celtic,slavic groups who have contributed so much to our current state?
This thread is about their ancestry (they share genes with non Afrisan-speaking populations and Afrisan speaking folks alike btw).
We've pointed out their African ancestry.
How would pointing out the presence of African ancestry in Greeks "diminish the [modern] achievements" of another group of people (from elsewhere than Africa)? Also, "lauding up" is an interesting choice of words.
quote:Or is it simply a desire on our part [those of us of african ancestry] to have a stronger presence within history
I don't think we (Africans) need a bigger presence historically speaking!!
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
ARROW99: - Fact is classical Greeks are not black africans, they are europeans. Every single Greek scholar bar none states that their culture was home grown.
That is not true; and your saying it, can only mean that you are relying on high school text books.
If African civilization as we know it made any meaningful contribution to the world how did it miss totally Africa generally?
What you mean is, how did it miss "Sub-Sahara" Africa. The answer is; nobody knows. And no doubt, that is the reason why you find the accomplishments of the others so hard to believe. But nonetheless, their accomplishments WERE the basis for modern civilization.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Or is it simply a desire on our part [those of us of african ancestry] to have a stronger presence within history because we are so largely dismissed?
^ How about a desire to tell the truth, with regards to the heterogeneous origins of so called Western civilisation, as opposed to propagating the myth of the Aryan model of history?
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Or is it simply a desire on our part [those of us of african ancestry] to have a stronger presence within history because we are so largely dismissed?
^ How about a desire to tell the truth, with regards to the heterogeneous origins of so called Western civilisation, as opposed to propagating the myth of the Aryan model of history?
I very much agree with you Rasol and enjoy your posts.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:I can't tell if lauding up the afro-asiatic origins of greece is an attempt to diminish the enormous achievements of those descended from the germanic,celtic,slavic groups who have contributed so much to our current state?
This thread is about their ancestry (they share genes with non Afrisan-speaking populations and Afrisan speaking folks alike btw).
We've pointed out their African ancestry.
How would pointing out the presence of African ancestry in Greeks "diminish the [modern] achievements" of another group of people (from elsewhere than Africa)? Also, "lauding up" is an interesting choice of words.
quote:Or is it simply a desire on our part [those of us of african ancestry] to have a stronger presence within history
I don't think we (Africans) need a bigger presence historically speaking!!
I 'm not a conventional person so far as language goes.I was saying that it appears to be the unfounded fear of some that pointing out a foreign foundation for greece somehow diminishs the achievements of their ancestors who inherited/stole? the greek and roman model of civilization.I don't know why else they are so resolved to not accept an african component in the greeks??
As to why Sub-Saharan africa does'nt have "civilization" .I believe it's largely due to religious fanatics never getting as far and deep into sub-saharan africa.This seems to be the way "civilization" was introduced across tribal europe.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
in the vague modern sense of the word - material culture....mega buildings and whatnot.My khoisan and mpondo ancestors were not huge on it as were a large chunk of pre-christian europe and i'm proud of the fact.
You're preaching to the choir.
but I apprecicate you pointing out my ignorance.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Actually the early Greeks spok a language kindred to the Etruscans in Italy. They were not connected to any civilization in Africa.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Actually the early Greeks spok a language kindred to the Etruscans in Italy.
That is probable. It is more likely the early (pre-Hellic) Greeks spoke languages associated with a peoples called Pelasgians and others from Asia Minor. The actual theory is that the Etruscans themselves ultimately originate from Asia Minor so early Pre-Hellic and Etruscans were likely closely related.
quote:They were not connected to any civilization in Africa.
Actually yeah, since we discussed in past threads the influence Egypt had on early Greek civilization, not to mention threads like this which discuss the Neolithic roots which were partly derived from Africa.
Posts: 26237 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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