posted
Right, but their language does seem related to the etruscan language. There does, increasingly, seem to be a tie between these groups. They may well be the same people.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: OK, I'll bite the bait. What do you mean? It seems you're presenting mythography and mythory. Would
you care to 1) define "sub-Saharan Africa" and 2) qualify "civilization," please.
Without your private take on those terms I fail to make anything rational out of your on face valueless false and silly claim.
quote:Originally posted by humanityiloveyou: As to why Sub-Saharan africa does'nt have "civilization" .
I think he means like tax records and written records and a work force etc. written language and agriculture. The stuff that Sumeria has, which seems to be the basis for Civilization.
Posts: 152 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I'm not pretending it was not answered. Refresh my memory, what dig was it that ypou said showed the interaction of large numbers of Africans and Greeks? Did I miss that post?
You have yet to prove tht the people you spoke of were even still Africans when they arrived (if they did) but since you can't tell me when all this took place I'll excuse that.
All you know how to do is call names and nobody cares about that.
So now your contention is...
The African didn't leave the continent of Africa until they began looking like Europeans..., Is that what you are trying to tell us?...
You might as well start with that..., Because you are not making much sense anyway....
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: there is no evidence, probably is not fact, its probably. Thats the MO you guys use all of the time
Probably, could be, might be, etc Its the same kind of logic that the UFO people use. greeks are not Africans. Africans have nothing to do with western civilization aside from cheap labor and resources. Africa hsitorically has been a backwater from the beginning, how could they contribute to what anyone else was doing. Thats not a diss, just a fact. Even today the place is a disease infected mud hole that survives on American and European loans and welfare.
Hey, Ca ca from the Caucas mountains.... You can't equate ancient traditions with Poverty...
What you should be doing is equating the poverty that is obvious with the colonial baggage that has PARASITICALLY sucked on Africa's traditions as well as resources....,
When the damn Europeans learn to pay for resources instead of stealing it, Africa's wealth will grow enormously again...,
Stop masterbating over the Europeans so called acheivements when their very existence is a PARASITICAL one!....,
The opulents of European nationalistic "splendor" is due in "whole" from the colonial and continued raping mainly of Africa and other continents....,
If tomorrow Africans regain complete control of ALL the continents resources, within less than 5 years... EUROPE WOULD CEASE TO EXIST!....,
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Go argue with the Classical Studies school in Athens, I've made my points, enough is enough. have a great holiday and new year.
iF YOU COULD HAVE PROVED YOUR POINT, YOU WOULD HAVE ALREADY!....
So good night.
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
All I have done is quote standard history at it's most basic level. Only the radical fringe will ever accept this political revisionism you guys preach.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: All I have done is quote standard history at it's most basic level. Only the radical fringe will ever accept this political revisionism you guys preach.
Honey, you cannot win from this Djehuti con-artist using 20 nicks at the same time!
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
It is not a matter of winning. The points I have made are history as defined by Classical scholars. In the end only their views will detwemine what is accepted history and what is something else altogether.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I'm not pretending it was not answered. Refresh my memory, what dig was it that ypou said showed the interaction of large numbers of Africans and Greeks? Did I miss that post?
You have yet to prove tht the people you spoke of were even still Africans when they arrived (if they did) but since you can't tell me when all this took place I'll excuse that.
All you know how to do is call names and nobody cares about that.
So now your contention is...
The African didn't leave the continent of Africa until they began looking like Europeans..., Is that what you are trying to tell us?...
If so it's mighty funny the past banned Texan member Hore/Arrow99/Celt/AmericanHammer/Patriot would say that - it was actually a radical fringe afrocentrist theory that attempted to explain whites by saying that the were albino Africans forced out of Africa (either rejected by 'mean' melanated Africans or outcompeted).
quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I'm not pretending it was not answered. Refresh my memory, what dig was it that ypou said showed the interaction of large numbers of Africans and Greeks? Did I miss that post?
You have yet to prove tht the people you spoke of were even still Africans when they arrived (if they did) but since you can't tell me when all this took place I'll excuse that.
All you know how to do is call names and nobody cares about that.
So now your contention is...
The African didn't leave the continent of Africa until they began looking like Europeans..., Is that what you are trying to tell us?...
If so it's mighty funny the past banned Texan member Hore/Arrow99/Celt/AmericanHammer/Patriot would say that - it was actually a radical fringe afrocentrist theory that attempted to explain whites by saying that the were albino Africans forced out of Africa (either rejected by 'mean' melanated Africans or outcompeted).
Are you about to give credence to the nonsense that the NATION OF ISLAM was trying to preach as a biblical hysteria?...
I hope not... It's not going to wash...., The NOI was called on the carpet for such bafoonary years ago BY Afrocentrists, I might add....
And as expected... TONED down that rediculous rhetoric...., They knew better...., But at the same time.... So did many Jewish scholars who tried to historically justify a biblical myths of the Jewish experience... A biblical history plagerized by the Egyptian(African) experience and Mythology systems....,
TOTAL PLAGERIZATION....,
I know better than to think that you believe that Noah truly created an Ark!...,
There is no way you would think that, right?....,
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I don't give credence to any such theory, did it appear so from my post? Obviously I was rideculing Professor Hore...
By the way, I'll Sleep When You're Dead (the member), I can see from a nerve I recently touched that we have yet another a-gang alias on the loose. Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): I don't give credence to any such theory, did it appear so from my post? Obviously I was rideculing Professor Hore...
By the way, I'll Sleep When You're Dead (the member), I can see from a nerve I recently touched that we have yet another a-gang alias on the loose.
OK, maybe I may have got it wrong concerning what you were trying to say... If I'm wrong, I apologize.....,
But what the hell are you referring to about this gang thing?...,
This is got to be interesting....,
But seriously... I truly apologize if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say....,
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
The cretans were tested to be anatolian no details were given on the dna data which is dubious,so I can't make any conclusions.
I've seen six ancient skulls reconstructed from crete [Thera or Knossos I can't recall] they gave them white skin/long hair, they all looked very broad flat nose,big mouth et al.The men to be very general resembled modern day pacific islanders/tongans,the women looked like the modern day bantu africans. They bared no resemblance to the profile based frescoes so who knows.
Some frescoes :
These heads are marked as minoan from the National Archeological Museum of Athens but honestly I don't know what to make of them.
one of the reconstructed skulls - minoan princess - they gave her fair skin,blue eyes et al.
I think the cretans and other aegeans like the rest of the "civilised" ancient world were multiracial societies to be overly general - european,indian,african and semite and those combining all four.
Posts: 70 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 2008
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the other "half" is answered in the work of Giovanni Semerano [as with the med gene pool] the second source is in africa and the near east.
Posts: 70 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ta Setis revenge: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tee85: [qb] Nope, I think he's bothered that East African men were obviously boinking "Greek" women.
They seemed to continue boinking them well into the later periods.
quote:Originally posted by Ta Setis revenge: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tee85: [qb] Nope, I think he's bothered that East African men were obviously boinking "Greek" women.
They seemed to continue boinking them well into the later periods.
There's nothing more dear to a honest white woman's heart than a Black truncheon.
Even I as a white man know that. My wife, even though she has been faithful, I know she occassionally lusts for something more substantial. It's just a reality we have to live with.
Posts: 15 | From: Ivory Tower | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): "But what the hell are you referring to about this gang thing?"
was talking to another member who knows what I'm talking about.
Again.. My Apologies....,
This is why I avoided posting in this forum for such a long time after joining.....,
I have been studying more and more in this website before I am confortable to reply..., Though I feel that I am pretty versed on the subject of Egyptology for a admirer...,
This place is like WASET to me!...., And I just got excepted!..., ...lol....,
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Yep, many of these guys have no class and even less education. You cannot make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Yep, many of these guys have no class and even less education. You cannot make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.
I don't eat swine!.....,
Posts: 81 | From: Newark, Nj | Registered: Aug 2008
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The civilization of ancient Greece flowered more than 2500 years ago but it influences the way we live today. Greece is a peninsula in southeastern Europe. The people of the region attempted to explain the world through the laws of nature. They made important discoveries in science. They developed democracy, where people govern themselves rather than being ruled by a king. The Greeks also valued beauty and imagination. They wrote many stories and plays that continue to be performed today. The ancient Greeks developed a great deal of what we take for granted. This is why Greece is often known as the Cradle of Western Civilization.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: It is not a matter of winning. The points I have made are history as defined by Classical scholars. In the end only their views will detwemine what is accepted history and what is something else altogether.
But apparently you deny the findings of those same scholars which show the origins of Greek civilization do not stem from Classical times but further back into Archaic times that is the Bronze Age and earlier Neolithic. This thread has explicitly shown you what those roots are-- Asia and Africa!
quote: Yep, many of these guys have no class and even less education. You cannot make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.
Yet I see in your case even as a so-called 'professor', education has made little difference in your racist and biased point of views. Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by humanity: The cretans were tested to be anatolian no details were given on the dna data which is dubious,so I can't make any conclusions.
Can you name or cite this DNA study?? I think more specifics and details are in order. What genetic haplogroups or other signatures did they carry? There has to be more than just merely 'Anatolian', especially since Crete is not to far away from the African coast.
quote:I've seen six ancient skulls reconstructed from crete [Thera or Knossos I can't recall] they gave them white skin/long hair, they all looked very broad flat nose, big mouth et al. The men to be very general resembled modern day pacific islanders/tongans,the women looked like the modern day bantu africans. They bared no resemblance to the profile based frescoes so who knows.
Judging by the frescoes alone, the Minoans were a heterogenous group, and certainly they had Africans among them as anthroplogists have shown throughout the decades and not only among the people of Crete but among other Aegean populations as well. Again, non of which is surprising considering that Africa is just on the otherside of the Mediterranean.
quote:Some frescoes :
These heads are marked as minoan from the National Archeological Museum of Athens but honestly I don't know what to make of them.
one of the reconstructed skulls - minoan princess - they gave her fair skin,blue eyes et al.
I think the cretans and other aegeans like the rest of the "civilised" ancient world were multiracial societies to be overly general - european, indian, african and semite and those combining all four.
^ Disregarding the fact that 'race' doesn't really exist anyway, since when does a "civilized" society in the ancient world have to be "multiracial"?? The ancient Egyptians were among the most advanced civilization yet they were predominantly if not entirely African. Also, what did Indians have to do with the Aegean?? According to all anthropological studies, the populations that made up the Aegean were of three main groups-- Africans, Western Asians, and Europeans-- with emphasis on Africans and Western Asians who brought Neolithic culture and thus the origins of civilization to Europe. Something that people like patriot are so desperate to deny.
Humanity, I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning to get a better understanding.
And lastly, it's not surprising that despite such features of Minoan crania such as broad nose and wide mouths the artists still gave the reconstructions such 'white' appearances.
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The silly aspect of this is that none of these dopey theories can tie a single thread to Plato, Socrates, Sophocles, Aristotle or any of the others....not a thread from some distant mist or mythical negroids.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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Over the weekend I read some references to Appiah (1992), Malik and Nederveen Pieterse by R. Reedijk (2000) which state that only around 1770 the Black was found to be inferior based on his looks. That only at the beginning of the nineteenth century race was seen in connection to colour.
In my research: late eighteen century, pre-revolutionary France, needed 'scientific evidence' to discredit the Blue Blood (=Black Blood) myth, symbolised by a Moor, a Classical African. So all the hatred went just against this symbol of despotic oppression: the Moor.
Somehow I see old cultures only rising when different peoples start pooling their resources.
quote:Originally posted by humanity: The cretans were tested to be anatolian no details were given on the dna data which is dubious,so I can't make any conclusions.
I've seen six ancient skulls reconstructed from crete [Thera or Knossos I can't recall] they gave them white skin/long hair, they all looked very broad flat nose,big mouth et al.The men to be very general resembled modern day pacific islanders/tongans,the women looked like the modern day bantu africans. They bared no resemblance to the profile based frescoes so who knows.
Some frescoes :
These heads are marked as minoan from the National Archeological Museum of Athens but honestly I don't know what to make of them.
one of the reconstructed skulls - minoan princess - they gave her fair skin,blue eyes et al.
I think the cretans and other aegeans like the rest of the "civilised" ancient world were multiracial societies to be overly general - european,indian,african and semite and those combining all four.
The archaeological evidence points to only a few reasonable certainties about Minoan history. Around 3000 BC, Crete was settled by a people who probably came from Asia Minor, who, by 2000 BC was already living in cities, trading with other nations in the Mediterranean, and employing a hieroglyphic system of writing, probably derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics. This hieroglyphic writing would eventually evolve into a linear script. They built magnificent palace centers at Knossos, Phaistos, and Kato Zakros; these palaces seem to have dominated Cretan society. We have no idea what language they spoke, but they certainly spoke a non-Hellenic language (that is, a language not closely related to Greek) and probably spoke a non-Indo-European language. "
There is evidence for the Minoan language. The language they spoke was related to the Mande group of languages. These Mande speakers formerly occupied a large part of the Fezzan ( in modern Libya)before they migrated to the Niger river valley. The Mande languages are members of the Niger-Congo Superfamily of languages.
Every since Arthur Evans discovered the Hieroglyphic and Linear A writing of Crete there has been a search for the authors of this writing.
Some Grecian traditions indicate that Libyans (called Garamante) formerly lived on Crete. This suggest that some of the Eteocretans may have spoken one of the ancient languages of Libya.
A major group from Libya that settled Crete were the Garamante. Robert Graves in (Vol.1, pp.33-35) maintains that the Garamante who originally lived in the Fezzan fused with the inhabitants of the Upper Niger region of West Africa.
This theory is interesting because the chariot routes from the Fezzan terminated at the Niger river. In addition, the Cretan term for king "Minos", agrees with the MandeManding word for ruler "Mansa". Both these terms share consonantal agreement : M N S.
The name Garamante, illustrates affinity to Mande morphology and grammar. The Mande language is a member of the Niger-Congo group of languages. The name for the Manding tribe called "Mande", means Ma 'mother, and nde 'children', can be interpreted as "Children of Ma", or "Mothers children " (descent among this group is matrilineal) .
The word Garamante,can be broken down into Malinke-Bambara into the following monosyllabic words Ga 'hearth', arid, hot'; Mante/Mande , the name of the Mande speaking tribes. This means that the term: Garamante, can be interpreted as "Mande of the Arid lands" or "Arid lands of the children of Ma". This last term is quite interesting because by the time the Greeks and Romans learned about the Garamante, the Fezzan was becoming increasingly arid.
Keftiu
The Egyptians called the Cretans Keftiu. There is agreement between the Keftiu names recorded by Egyptian scribes (T.E. Peet, "The Egyptian writing board BM5647 bearing Keftiu names". In , (ed.) by S Casson (Oxford, 1927, 90-99)), and Manding names.
Keftiu The root kef-, in Keftiu, probably is Ke'be, the name of a Manding clan , plus the locative suffix {i-} used to give the affirmative sense, plus the plural suffix for names {u-}, and the {-te} suffixial element used to denote place names, nationalities and to form words.
On the Egyptian writing board there are eight Keftiu names. These names agree with Manding names:
Keftiu....... Manding
sh h.r........ Sye
Nsy ..........Nsye
'ksh .........Nkyi
Pnrt Pe,..... Beni (name for twins)
'dm ..........Demba
Rs............. Rsa
This analogy between Keftiu and Manding names is startling.
In conclusion, the evidence of similarity between Keftiu names and names from the Manding languages appear to support Graves view that the Eteocretans, who early settled Crete may have spoken a language similar to the Mande people who live near the Niger. Conseqently, there is every possibility that the Linear A script used by the Keftiu, which is analogous to the Libyco Berber writing used by the Proto-Mande .
See:
C. A. Winters, "The influence of the Mande scripts on ancient America", de l'IFAN>, t59, serB, no.1, (1977) pp.941-967.
C.A. Winters, "The ancient manding Script", In , (ed.) by Ivan van Sertima, ( London: Rutgers University Press Transaction Press , 1981) pp.208-214), may be written in an aspect of the Manding (Malinke/Bambara) language.
posted
^^^Sorry Egmond: While your theory is "politically correct" it is unfortunately historically "way off". Crete is the "oldest" of the Mediterranean/European civilizations, dating beyond 8,000 B.C. At that time, Whites had not even begone to think about migrating westward - they reached Europe at about 1,200 B.C. Likewise Indians - who are a hybrid of Dravidian and invading Arians - did not yet exist.
The choices for Cretan ethnicity are as follows: Descendants of the Khoisan Grimaldi - who entered Europe through Gibraltar at about 45,000 B.C. and subsequently migrated Eastward, reaching Eastern Siberia at about 25,000 B.C. At the time of Crete's founding, these people had inhabited Anatolia for thousands of years, (we know this because artifacts).
The other choice is Nile valley people migrating northward, this may be the best choice: once again, because of the artefactual record - that is because in Crete (as far as I know), no artifacts have been found with the Grimaldi signature: that is, Goddess figures (or as some say; Venus figures) of Steatopygia Females. This trait has allowed scientist to track Grimaldi's across Europe and Asia - It is absent in Crete.
It may also be telling; that the FIRST city in Greece - "Mycenae" was a joint undertaking between Crete and Egypt, at about 2,000 - 1600 B.C.
Note: There is no such thing as a Semite people; this is White-man B.S. used to confuse the issues of race. The Amorite ethnic group - to which Hebrews belong - originated in Anatolia. These were a pure-Black people. The current group of people; thought of as Semite: happened as a result of racial mixing after Whites had conquered all of the western civilizations.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Egmond - knowing your interest in European Blacks of the middle ages; I thought that you might be interested in this.
The web page is in Russian, and the browser translation is very poor, but I managed to get the following.
Saint Prince Theodore of Smolensk and Yaroslavl, called the “Black” aka Theodore Stratélate; was born during terrible years for Russians: the time of the Mongolian invasion, about 1237-1239. With the saint Baptism, he accepted the name of the saint martyr Theodore Stratélate who was considered among the great Russian prince-warriors.
Prince Theodore was famous for his military exploits. In 1239, by the prayers of the Very Holy Mother of God, the saint Merkourios martyr-warrior delivered Smolensk which was going to fall vis-a-vis Batu, the Theodore child was not in the city. They had taken him along and hidden him in a sure place during the war. In 1240, his father, prince Rostislav, mourrut died. His older brothers, divided the paternal grounds between them, allocating to the Theodore child the small possession of Mozahisk. He passed its childhood there, and studied the Holy Scriptures, the Offices of church and military science.
In 1260, prince Theodore was married to Maria Vasilievna, girl of the saint prince Basile de Yaroslav), and Theodore became thus prince de Yaroslav. They had a son named Michael, but holy Theodore quickly became widowed. He spent most of his time in military campaigns, and his son was raised by his mother-in-law, the Xénia princess.
If you are going to look into this, you might also investigate:
Ivan Grekov Saint Alexandre Nevsky and Saint Theodore Stratelate on the bottom of Laure de Saint Alexandre Nevsky 18th. century
Battle of the defenders of Novgorod against Souzdaliens. 15th. century old middle. Novgorod.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^ Ignoring the pseudo-afro-nonsense above...
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: The silly aspect of this is that none of these dopey theories can tie a single thread to Plato, Socrates, Sophocles, Aristotle or any of the others....not a thread from some distant mist or mythical negroids.
There is nothing "dopey" about it. Blacks (despite your racist fantasies) are indigenous to all of Africa including North Africa. From there, they expanded into the Mediterranean during the Neolithic. You are right that there is no direct link between these blacks and the scholars of the Classical period, but there is an indirect link in which these Neolithic peoples were the ones who brought civilization if not the roots of civilization to Greece from which Archaic Greek civilization was born and was the predecessor of Classical Greek civilization.
If you still can't accept that then that is your problem, not ours.
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It's as nutty as a fruitcake Djehuti and you know better. You show me one thread, one single connection between some genetic marker and the acomplishments of classical Greece. Fact is you cannot do it. You cannot even tell me who these people were.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): ! /Celt/AmericanHammer/Patriot would say that - it was actually a radical fringe afrocentrist theory that attempted to explain whites by saying that the were albino Africans forced out of Africa (either rejected by 'mean' melanated Africans or outcompeted).
I realize it's difficult for your mainstream scholars to comprehend, but while your goals are to merge and integrate with Europeans, this type of speculation makes less sense then Africans turning white due to having no food.
A perfect example of a classic type 2 Albino with pale skin, very little or no melanin production, eye color (translucence), poor eyesight, weak hair, Extremely low infertility rate (Known to have consulted with fertility clinics), poor bone formation (no ass, skinny boy build), hairy face (compensating for no melanin), all meeting primary symptoms as defined by; International Albinism Research Center. True, whether you realize it or not.
Notice hairy face and solar induced skin damage
BTW:
Since it's not expected whites really know anything about the Nation Of Islam outside of what's printed in the mainstream press, it's only expected that any attempt at presenting real facts will be wrong or badly skewed due to white fear. FYI, the NOI has NEVER stated whites were albino, but rather they claimed that whites were result of a genetic experiment merging man with pig (pink), performed by a MAD black African scientist 10 thousand years ago. LOL, even that sounds more plausible compared to, they just ran out of food. LMAO!!!
Another Albino. Notice, he doesn't have any food, but he damn sure has glasses to aid the mole-like vision in his Albino eyes.
This Albino's skin has so little melanin, his face tears like toilet tissue paper when impacted. The source of his unusually thin skin is due to the body compensating for internal cooling due to a lack of melanin to preform this function. Otherwise, with thicker, melanin-less skin, he would not radiate heat as effectively, and as as result, he would simply overheat and die.
Lastly, the reason provided for the migration, was NOT that Albinos were FORCED out, but rather, due to their low life expectancy living in the African climate, which even to you should be apparent, not a suitable environment for a person lacking solar radiation protecting melanin. A migration to the European environment, which although not ideal for melanin-less people (confirmed by increasing cases of Skin cancer in European whites/Albinos), was much more environmentally friendly then Africa. Unlike Hammer, I have provided more then adequate validating data confirming whites are indeed, variates of Albinos.
Case closed!
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote: this type of speculation makes less sense then Africans turning white due to having no food.
Who says they ran out of food? The only way for you continue spewing your nonsense is to act like you don't understand, or just simply lie and distort the words of others
Europeans didn't "lose" food, they adopted a new way of growing their food(agriculture), instead of hunting for it, nitwit.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
And they stop eating fish and drinking goat milk also.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
^^^Like I said the only way for you continue spewing your nonsense is to act like you don't understand, or just simply lie and distort the words of others
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I distorted nothing. For your theory to be even remotely possible, this is what needed to happen. They replaced Vitamin D rich ready made foodstuffs with LOW Vitamin D foodstuff made available from mass agricultural sources. Note that fish (seafood) are the richest sources of Vitamin D, followed by Goat's milk. Where Goat's milk has more Vitamin D per volume then Cow's milk.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Remotely possible? Guy this is scientifically proven and mainstream accepted. Early Europeans were hunter gatherers fishers herders, and when agriculture spread, they gave up hunting to grow their own food, in doing so, weren't provided with adequate amounts of Vitamin D that their hunter gatherer diet provided them with. So gradually they began evolving and became lighter, in order to produce vitamin d through synthesis of UV under darker skies in Europe.
Sorry kid Africans didn't migrate directly from Africa into Europe when they advanced OOA, this simply never happened and is more wishful thinking on your part.
You're proposing they migrated into Europe and became a permanent albino population, but how do you propose this?
The genes which caused Europeans to lose their pigmentation only switched on 6-12kya. Are you saying Europe wasn't populated until 6kya?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Yes, and Europeans residing in coastal areas simply stopped eating fish, while all Europeans stopped drinking Goat's milk. I get it. You call it "evolving", so why do all doctors call it, "regression"? Is it possible to evolve backwards into a defect?
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Fish was not the only food provided in a hunter gatherers diet. Stopped drinking goats milk? Where do you come up with these idiotic theories?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Doesn't matter much what other foodstuffs they consumed. Only a FEW foods have ample Vitamin D at all. The majority of foods such as corn, ice, tomatoes, pork, chicken, have very little, or absolutely no Vitamin D. Why do you think taht even today, whites fortify EVERYTHING with HUGE doses of Vitamin D.
For example, for YOU to obtain YOUR daily allowance of Vitamin D from consuming chickens, you'd need to eat approximately 20-30 chickens per day, and that STILL would not meet YOUR daily requirement. I'm using YOU as an example, because as a black man, MY daily recommended Vitamin D allowance is somewhere between 30-50% lower then YOUR need. Your need parallels that of a typical Albino who cannot convert Vitamin D from UVb and as a result, must obtain the majority from supplemental sources.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Doesn't matter much what other foodstuffs they consumed.
Actually it does. Can you tell me what a hunter gatherers herders fishers diet consists of?
quote: Only a FEW foods have ample Vitamin D at all. The majority of foods such as corn, ice, tomatoes, pork, chicken, have very little Vitamin D.
Corn is grown, ice?, tomatoes are grown, pork comes from the domesticated pig, chicken is domesticated, this is an agriculturist diet, and yes it consists of very little vitamin D, thanks for proving my point.
quote: For example, for YOU to obtain YOUR daily allowance of Vitamin D from consuming chickens, you'd need to eat approximately 20-30 chickens per day, and that STILL would not meet YOUR daily requirement. I'm using YOU as an example, because as a black man, MY daily recommended Vitamin D allowance is somewhere between 30-50% lower then YOUR need.
This is redundant as I am not white so you can pull this pseudo nonsense somewhere else.
quote: Your need parallels that of a typical Albino who cannot convert Vitamin D from UVb and as a result, must obtain the majority from supplemental sources.
Under darker low Uv environments a European can synthesize UV to produce Vitamin D, are you saying an albino has this same ability?
Btw...since this thread is about Greece, and has nothing to do with your idiotic theory, you can bring your nonsense back to this other imbecilic tread and continue this there
posted
Save us both some trouble going around in circles. Here is the National Institute of Health Website. On this page they list foods rich in Vitamin D. Note, the list contains NO agricultural products. None at all!!! Overlook the CEREAL, because it is MODERN cereal, meaning it was no available to Europeans. This is FORTIFIED as are ALL manufactured agricultural products today. Since Goat milk isn't consumed much in the US, it is not shown, but it's vitamin D content falls directly in between Cow's Milk and Sardines at around approx. 180 IUs, or approx 2x the concentrations of Cow's milk.
The highest concentrations of Vitamin D being in all forms of fish, some higher then others. So, if it is as you say, the result would be an extremely low Vitamin D deficiency in Europeans leading to exceedingly high birth defects (bone malformations), extremely high deaths due to simple bone breakages and infections, rickets, and extremely low mortality rates. There would be 100s of thousands if not millions of recovered archaeological evidence to support it. Meaning, before they "turned white", there would have been a few hundred years of brittle bones and extremely high death rates associated with extreme bone disease.
Not surprisingly, Albinos already have these traits well before your European Agricultural revolution.
quote:On this page they list foods rich in Vitamin D. Note, the list contains NO agricultural products. None at all!!!
Lol dummy an agriculturalists diet is not a high vitamin D producing diet, thanks for proving my point again.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
LOL, got you frustrated and calling names like a little white girl already. LMBAO!!
But a coastal fishing diet is! Thanks for proving MY point. Not to mention, you lack the required above mentioned archaeological evidence which if your theory is correct, should be abundantly available in European skeleton remains. You got it, post it! LOL, that should keep your pale butt busy for a few minutes searching your favorite source, WIKI.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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I am laughing at you because you keep on refuting yourself and don't even realize.
quote:But a coastal fishing diet is!
Is what? Rich in vitamin D enough to retain or regain melanin? Please prove this.
quote: Not to mention, you lack the required above mentioned archaeological evidence which if your theory is correct, should be abundantly available in European skeleton remains. You got it, post it!
This is a strawman argument since nowhere does it state Europeans started to die off from losing a Vitamin D enriched diet. Prove that they started to die off and then we can talk.
Dr. Richard G. Klein, a paleoanthropologist at Stanford, said that it was hard to correlate the specific gene changes in the three populations with events in the archaeological record, but that the timing and nature of the changes in the East Asians and Europeans seemed compatible with the shift to agriculture. Rice farming became widespread in China 6,000 to 7,000 years ago, and agriculture reached Europe from the Near East around the same time.
Skeletons similar in form to modern Chinese are hard to find before that period, Dr. Klein said, and there are few European skeletons older than 10,000 years that look like modern Europeans.
That suggests that a change in bone structure occurred in the two populations, perhaps in connection with the shift to agriculture. Dr. Pritchard's team found that several genes associated with embryonic development of the bones had been under selection in East Asians and Europeans, and these could be another sign of the forager-to-farmer transition, Dr. Klein said.
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Dr Mark Thomas, UCL Biology: "The ability to drink milk is the most advantageous trait that's evolved in Europeans in the recent past.
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Health status of the Neolithic population of Alepotrypa Cave, Greece
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Titre du document / Document title Hemochromatosis : A Neolithic adaptation to cereal grain diets Auteur(s) / Author(s) NAUGLER Christopher ; Résumé / Abstract
The Neolithic period in Europe marked the transition from a hunter-gatherer diet rich in red meat to an iron-reduced cereal grain diet. This dietary shift likely resulted in an increased incidence of iron deficiency anemia, especially in women of reproductive age. I propose that hereditary hemochromatosis and in particular the common HFE C282Y mutation may represent an adaptation to decreased dietary iron in cereal grain-based Neolithic diets. Both homozygous and heterozygous carriers of the HFE C282Y mutation have increased iron stores and therefore possessed an adaptive advantage under Neolithic conditions. An allele age estimate places the origin of the HFE C282Y mutation in the early Neolithic period in Northern Europe and is thus consistent with this hypothesis. The lower incidence of this mutation in other agrarian regions (the Mediterranean and Near East) may be due to higher dietary intakes of the iron uptake cofactor vitamin C in those regions. The HFE C282Y mutation likely only became maladaptive in the past several centuries as dietary sources of iron and vitamin C improved in Northern Europe.
Biological Perspectives on Human Pigmentation By Ashley H. Robins
Rickets have been described sporadically in European skeletal material(predominately from Scandinavia and Hungary)dating from the Neolithic period until medieval times. (Wells 1975)Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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