quote:That's because again, lineage does not correlate with phenotype.
That was the whole point of this post. Lol
quote:It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
------------
quote: posted by Djehuti specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%. But Amhara and Tigre do not represent most Ethiopians, let alone all of Ethiopia.
Yea that's why I asked, aren't the studies on East Africans only done on certain tribes in certain countries I.e, not all East Africans are 40% West Asian, Just like not all African Americans are 30% European.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
^That claim: "There are West Asian J lineages among some Ethiopians, specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%."
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Explorateur: ^That claim: "There are West Asian J lineages among some Ethiopians, specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%."
Oh ok, so what are the actual percentages? Since this is one thing Euro-centrists love to mention, since I already know it was only a few tribes that exhibited admixture, if any, now it would be great to know the actual percentage in Ethiopians, I can't seem to find any other studies.
Anyway, point is features of East Africans can not be attributed to outside influence, being that this influence should have affected skin color and skeletal elongation as well, which it didn't.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well it is a matter of precision; whatever the study might be, that percentage must obvioulsy only reflect the sample size of the tested parties.
As for Eurocentrists making a mole hill out of misreading some study, they do so, because they know next to nothing about how population genetics studies work, and never set foot in Ethiopia.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
personally, I would rather see Dijmon Houson in the staring role as Taharqa. In fact for the past 5 years I have been invisioning a film about Taharqa (with Dijmon Houson) that would be made by one of Hollywoods Black elite such as Will Smith.
But with that said, Will Smith could work out just fine. They have makeup now that can give him a realistic darker hue if authenticity is what they are after & if he is open to it.
I just hope my man Dijmon Houson is in it, as well as Idris Elba,who I think would also make a great Taharqa. Posts: 135 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Goddamn!! look at the curves on that sh1t. NICE!!! Although not a butt/chest man. Prefer tall ones with legs. But that is nice. Don't like the red hair un-natural stuff .
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
No the Ancient Egyptians looked like the people of Sudan and the indigenous people of Egypt.
Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt?
quote:
Your warped fantasy of Ancient Egyptians being Ethiopians
What? I said they generally looked like modern day Ethiopians. I didn't say they were Ethiopians.
quote: What does a stereotypical black person look like?
Like Will Smith - idiot.
As for Ethiopians - whenever I see Egyptian Art I am reminded of them.
Don't know if I have seen depictions of Egyptians with such curves though:
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chiwetel Ejiofor. Is that the black English dude in Serenity(the bad guy) and Sci-Fi about the last black pregnant girl.
If it is him? Excellent/convincing actor for the lead role.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't know about Serenity but he was in Children of Men(movie about the black pregnant girl).
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I don't talk to wall paintings and I hope you don't either. The point is that the people of Sudan are not on average as LIGHT as Will Smith. So tell THEM he is a PERFECT example of an ancient Kushite. Sorry, but many of them would LAUGH at you. Sudanese are some of the DARKEST people on average in Africa and everyone knows it, including the ancient Egyptians. It is a patently ABSURDLY STUPID statement to claim that modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs. AND only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese. So what is the point? Are you living in fantasy land and ready for HOLLYWOOD to give you your reality. Hollywood is FANTASY BABY. If you want to see what ancient Kushites looked like, then the BEST place to go IS SUDAN and nowhere else. People quibbling over this are RETARDED because movies are not about HISTORICAL ACCURACY and nobody should treat this as anything more than movie magic. The fact that some are SO CONCERNED about it shows how much POWER HOLLYWOOD has over the minds of those who should know better. F*CK hollywood. It is a business and they don't care one bit about historical truth. In fact it is an agent of propaganda and those FOOLS who believe in it and rely on it for their "reality" deserve to B.S. that they get.
This isn't about Will Smith, it is about SUDAN. Sudanese in Sudan around the region of ancient Kush are NOT on average as light as Will Smith. And the colors on the ancient Egyptian tombs only show that some Kushites were very dark and others weren't, just like in Sudan today. There is nothing to change that fact. Will Smith is on average much lighter than the AVERAGE person from Sudan, who IS the closest to the ancient Kushites.
All your wailing and antics are simply childish. In fact, compared to the darkest Sudanese, even Damon Honsou is relatively light. You need to learn something about the actual people of Sudan before posting your gibberish, which has no bearing on the FACTS. Will Smith is NOT Sudanese and is a light skinned African AMERICAN. The two are not one and the same, even if they are both black peoples.
Relatively lighter [than the darkest side of the spectrum] Brown skin as a non-average doesn't equate such as being an outliner. What evidence do you have that it would have been rare or "unlikely" that an ancient northeast African Kushite would hold this complexion? What complexion was Taharqa then? Why work with hypotheticals? It's also funny how you don't talk to wall paintings, but you speak for them, ala "they'd laugh at you" (of course assuming that they'd chase your ridiculous straw man). Only a "RETARD" would imply that *any* modern population or individual can be a"perfect" representation of what *any* ancient population looked like overall, physically. Only a "RETARD" would post pictures of ancient and modern Sudanese who exhibit various brown complexions, then turn around and make the generalized, half true claim that "Sudanese are among the darkest people in the world", which is true, but means nothing considering in context, the indigenous bioethnic diversity also present there (you have no point). Only a mentally deluded junky will attribute such a hideously misplaced claim such as "modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs" (wtf?) to someone who never made it. And ONLY a spaced out loon will call his own self a retard, by stating: "only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese". Hence, you are the only one who "argues" this.
Disregarding the rest of your misdirected mumbo jumbo/straw man infested babble, I guess I should make clear my point.
It seems to me Doug, that some individuals above all else, do possess a unique and valued understanding about issues and topics relevant to Africana studies discourse, yet on occasion can seem about as misguidedly ignorant, petty, and racially obsessed as those they most often criticize. It seems remarkably apparent to me the inherent prejudice expressed, ala in the fashion of Spike Lee's "School Daze". Of course Will Smith isn't Sudanese. He's an American actor playing in an American movie, and is physically a Black man. He's playing a character. A role. An African man playing another African. Why you can't comprehend that is beyond me and not my problem. As stated, again, show me a portrait of Taharqa presenting him as someone "too black" to be played by another black man. A true monolithic negro of sorts.
If you're mad though that a modern Sudanese man wasn't casted in an American film, then just say that. Otherwise you seem like a race baiting, skin color obsessed weirdo.
The evidence is in Sudan itself and needs no explaining. Will Smith is much lighter than the average Sudanese from the region of Kush. That is a FACT. Period. Whether he makes this movie or not or plays the part of Tarharqa that still will be a fact. ALL movies even those portraying WHITE historical figures have been critiqued on whether or not certain actors are "more suitable" for certain roles. It is part of movie making. The fact that Will Smith is not as dark as many Sudanese does not mean he is not black, that is just YOU making a retarded strawman argument. Nobody said Will wasn't black. I just said that he IS NOT as dark as many Sudanese and NOT as dark as most ancient Kushites, including Tarharqa. And like I said, it is a movie and therefore I don't expect it to be 100% historically accurate to begin with and I certainly do not expect it to tell a TRUE history of Egypt and Kush, regardless of whether Will Smith or any other black man decided to take it on. I don't rely on hollywood to tell African history. Will Smith is a force in hollywood in terms of money making power and if he can pull of something that is more accurate than standard hollywood stuff about Africa, especially the nonsense about Egypt, then fine. But I am not expecting any sort of ground breaking and B.S. smashing anti-eurocentric film here. The fact that it is about Tarharqa makes it even more likely that it ISN'T going to address those "hard" issues. That right there should tell you something.... And just to let you know, many African Americans actually think the Egyptians were white or mixed, possibly even Will. And even more unfortunate is the fact that many of them actually suck up everything they see in movies as being faithful and accurate.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: "Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry"
How this number miraculously jumped from 20% to 30% is beyond me, but I will say that the above point is lost on me.
Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
quote: Besides, how is this any different than Eurocentric claims that East Africans are 40% non-African?
It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
Besides aren't the studies where East Africans being mixed is only certain tribes of certain countries? And most are wrong since M1 and U6 was falsely classified as Eurasian?
No offense whatsoever brotha man, but L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza isn't the only geneticist in history and this still doesn't address why these figures keep bouncing around from as much as 15 - 30%, yet you guys' seem comfortable in running with this 30% figure as some kind of unwaverable truth. Parra et al. 1998 estimated as much as a 20% admixture and Smith (2004) estimated 16-19%. You also seem unaware of the implications of my question. How is this any different than the claims of Eurocentrics who cite that East Africans are 40%? Phenotype has nothing to do with it.
....................
As for the movie and people still complaining about a Black man casted to play another Black man, frankly, you people need to get a life, and I'm sorry I went there but it is freakishly odd to me the critiques being flung around against something that is otherwise commendable.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
--------------------------- Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt? ---------------------------
You can injece "pure" as a strawman all that you want. I'll leave that for the posters that match your lower level of intellect.
The indigenous people of Egypt and the Sudanaese are who the ancient egyptians looked like. Not the Ethiopians that apparently you like to use to pleasure yourself.
-------------------------- Like Will Smith - idiot. --------------------------
What is stereotypical about Will Smith?
I'm noticing that alot of these race loons tend to be these horny pathetic individuals who use "mixed" to further enhance their how shall we say it? Their self-pleasuring pleasure.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Knowledgeiskey.. I must be frank. You DID imply that Will Smith's appearance is due to admixture and that a so-called mixed Negro would resemble the Egyptians more so than he would any Kushite. I'm not sure how else to interpet such a view other than to conclude that you assume the ancient Egyptians to have been a mixed people. Yes, you've tried to clarify your statement but in the process you contradict what you've already stated and implied (as with the above post). Freudian slip, perhaps?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: You DID imply that Will Smith's appearance is due to admixture
I said it most likely due to admixture. What's your point? I never said Egyptians are mixed, sorry kid.
quote: and that a so-called mixed Negro would resemble the Egyptians more so than he would any Kushite.
Never said that, but anyway what I said was not because he is mixed, but because he is a lighter brown skin, whereas Nubians are usually darker,(as I said, I've seen Nubians depicted lighter but usually they're darker), this doesn't make one more African than the other, those are your thoughts and not mine, please don't attribute your thoughts to me.
quote:I'm not sure how else to interpet such a view other than to conclude that you assume the ancient Egyptians to have been a mixed people.
Wow, then maybe you need to attend a language arts class immediately, because you've came to the WRONG conclusion and made an ASS-umption. Anyone who as any kind of brainpower, who reads my comments would know you're simply projecting.
quote: Yes, you've tried to clarify your statement but in the process you contradict what you've already stated and implied (as with the above post). Maybe it was a Freudian slip?
I made myself clear the first time, Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is medium brown tone as were most Egyptians, NOT because he is mixed, sorry you had a miscommunication, and it's not my fault that you listen to trolls like xxy and argyle. You should choose better co-signers next time. Anyway it seems to me, many people agree with what I said, and it seems, like I said, the only ones who agree with you, are trolls. Why do you think this is?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Told you the guy is a . . .fraud. I can smell them out.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe you when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your own folly.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Perhaps you think you can smell them out because you're a Fraud yourself? Stop projecting on others xyy
^^^With a beak like that, I am pretty sure you can smell everything. Follow your nose....... Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
There you go insulting the man's nose. and what is wrong with a aquiline nose? Not having one myself but I don't see a problem with it.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your folly.
Or you can just read the original comment again. I guess with 4th graders I have to be more specific.
"Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion?"
^^^^^Let's make this clear for the kids, WILL SMITH COULD PLAY A BETTER EGYPTIAN BECAUSE HE IS A LIGHTER TONED BROWN, AS WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, AND NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE MIXED. I DO NOT THINK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE MIXED AT ALL.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There you go insulting the man's nose. and what is wrong with a aquiline nose? Not having one myself but I don't see a problem with it.
Please, like I said before, you don't fool anyone(well at least not me) you're transparent, figuratively and literally speaking.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your folly.
Or you can just read the original comment again. I guess with 4th graders I have to be more specific.
"Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion?"
^^^^^Let's make this clear for the kids, WILL SMITH COULD PLAY A BETTER EGYPTIAN BECAUSE HE IS A LIGHTER TONED BROWN, AS WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, AND NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE MIXED. I DO NOT THINK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE MIXED AT ALL.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues. You seem panicky as if you were on the verge of being exposed. Even a 4th grader can realize the mistakes you've made given your subjective reasoning process, in "maybe" Will Smith is mixed, and "maybe" the Egyptians looked like him but were not mixed, yet he's playing the role of a Kushite, and we all know Kushites don't look "mixed", like ancient Egyptians and Will Smith did/do.
Also, posting some photo of another actor, as if by circular argumentation you look to conclude based on your own premise that Taharqa looked like him, then that can be attributed only to your own naivette and only lowers your marketing value as an aspiring scholar.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud
Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Even a fourth grader can realize the mistakes you made given your subjective reasoning process, in "maybe" Will Smith is mixed, and "maybe" the Egyptians looked like him but were not mixed,
Actually no, "maybe" is because many lighter skinned African Americans, NOT AFRICANS in general. African Americans are NOT the only AFRICANS outside of AFRICA. When you see a lightskin African from a Hispanic country wouldn't you think he's mixed? Man, please many Caribbean African descended Hispanics look exactly like African Americans, and these Caribbean African descended Hispanics are mixed.
quote: yet he's playing the role of a Kushite, and we all know Kushites don't look "mixed", like ancient Egyptians and Will Smith did/do.
Lmao Sun, are you describing your own feelings?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ausar: While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
I understand the feeling and agree that Smith is not the best who could be chosen. But most people don't know who Djimon Honsou is or even the Black British guy...he's even less known. It's GOOD that Will Smith is doing this because it can maximize viewers to a subject that they (for the most part) know nothing about. Whereas just picking someone because he's the darkest may not do that.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:I made myself clear the first time, Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is medium brown tone as were most Egyptians,
According to who? I mean, going by such logic, Will Smith would be equally suited to play Ghandi. This, albeit after considering the stylistic convention of Egyptian portraiture, greco-Roman descriptions, and melanin extraction from mummified remains, I see no evidence to support your assertion that the ancient Egyptians were "medium" brown, or any skeletal evidence suggesting the Egyptians (especially southern) to be phenotypically distinct from the Kushites [in, how can Smith resemble one but not the other?]. Keita, Zakrzewski, and others actually contradict you. So in other words, your argument is petty and misguided.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: I mean, going by such logic, Will Smith would be equally suited to play Ghandi.
Oh come on, let's not be silly. Again your applying your own logic.
quote: So in other words, your argument is petty.
No, actually your argument is petty, because there is like 30 posts which agree with me, yet you're attacking me? Lol. And ones that agree with you are, hmmmm, TROLLS? Okay then.
Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
A darker skinned actor should play Taharqa. I like Will Smith. He's the highest paid actor in America right now. I guess that means he's the highest pain actor in the world with billions of dollars worth of box offfice receipts.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
I understand the feeling and agree that Smith is not the best who could be chosen. But most people don't know who Djimon Honsou is or even the Black British guy...he's even less known. It's GOOD that Will Smith is doing this because it can maximize viewers to a subject that they (for the most part) know nothing about. Whereas just picking someone because he's the darkest may not do that.
Good points
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
Correct. Which is another reason why the concept of 'race' is spurious. You can't tell a persons ancestry soley by their looks. This is also the reason why the so-called 'purity' of whites not only in America but in Europe and other parts of the world is in question. Admixtue works both ways.
posted
^Akoben, for one of the few moments I've taken your posts seriously, devoid of any personal attacks (from me OR you), you actually make a lot of sense.
@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Notice how these frauds will rail against Eurocentric misconceptions of Africans yet fall back on said Eurocentrics? LOL Cavalli-Sforza on Caucasian "admixture" in Ethiopians.
I knew akoben/argyle were one and the same. Damned shame.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
Talk about lack of comprehension. I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
quote: Actually no, "maybe" is because many lighter skinned African Americans, NOT AFRICANS in general. African Americans are NOT the only AFRICANS outside of AFRICA. When you see a lightskin African from a Hispanic country wouldn't you think he's mixed? Man, please many Caribbean African descended Hispanics look exactly like African Americans, and these Caribbean African descended Hispanics are mixed.
In your failed attempt at being practical you never once consider that maybe many Africans who were involved in the trans-atlantic slave trade favored his complexion. It's just one skin tone out of many and I personally don't understand the obsession. You are working with probabilities that no one can measure. You are being hypothetical and demand that you be taken seriously. Why?
quote: Lmao Sun, are you describing your own feelings?
No, I'm describing the dangerous implications of your naivette in this instance.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed.
Wow, a lot of distortion, I only posted two pictures on this page, what are you talking about elsewhere? Pictures which are/were from my first reply on this topic, on the other hand, you thought the pictures that were being posted were from me, no need to lie.
I never said as a direct result of Will Smith's admixture he would best suit to play Taharqa <<This is your distortion of what I said.
Again what I said was, since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian. Then I said Will Smith is most likely mixed-NOT DIRECT ADMIXTURE- being that he is an A.A and light skinned.
NEVER did I say since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian <<<<Again this is your misinterpretation of what I said.
But enough with the misinterpretations of what YOU thought I meant, and stick to the facts. Simple as that.
Like I said
quote: Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Oh come on, let's not be silly. Again your applying your own logic.
No, yours, since you are emphasizing skin complexion. So-called "medium brown". I'm not aware of any other criteria you'd apply. Notwithstanding that your opinion is based on an unfounded premise.
quote: No, actually your argument is petty, because there is like 30 posts which agree with me, yet you're attacking me? Lol. And ones that agree with you are, hmmmm, TROLLS? Okay then.
Lmao @ who agrees with who as per argument from imaginary authority and as if to assume that I'm some type of hot headed newb {or alt} looking to make a "name" for myself. Facts stand that I'm not challenging any facts presented by YOU or anyone who so-called "agrees" with you (since you've presented none), but your subjective opinion and seemingly naive approach to African biohistory (at least in this thread).
quote:Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
I agree that no matter what you MEANT, you left open yourself for criticism due to your inartful wording. Feel free to clarify but looking for flaws or chalking it up to accusing others {rather condescendingly) of not comprehending you, only takes away from your credibility. Dig?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues.
quote: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Talk about lack of comprehension. [Roll Eyes] I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
Sure you were.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
I am going to leave you right here, with my first post that you misinterpreted.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed.
Wow, a lot of distortion, I only posted two pictures on this page, what are you talking about elsewhere? Pictures which are/were from my first reply on this topic, on the other hand, you thought the pictures that were being posted were from me, no need to lie.
I never said as a direct result of Will Smith's admixture he would best suit to play Taharqa <<This is your distortion of what I said.
Again what I said was, since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian. Then I said Will Smith is most likely mixed-NOT DIRECT ADMIXTURE- being that he is an A.A and light skinned.
NEVER did I say since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian <<<<Again this is your misinterpretation of what I said.
But enough with the misinterpretations of what YOU thought I meant, and stick to the facts. Simple as that.
Like I said
quote: Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
A lot of this is going over your head and whether you cop-out without explaining yourself or not, I will further reply and lay off the implications since you don't even understand exactly what you said and how most will perceive it. More simply then I'll repost a question I had in objection to one of your claims on which your entire opinion is based.
since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian.
From my understanding, the evidence, based on greco-Roman testimony, extraction of melanin from mummified remains, tropical body plan [which by inference alludes to tropical adaptation and thus, dark skin], and an understanding of Egyptian stylistic convention in contrast to realism (as seen in the Armana period for example), seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Knowledgewhiskey/Mary got caught trying to sneak in updated "true negro" fantasises. Didn't take too long for the frauds to expose themselves. LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Again misinterpretations, I said light-er brown tone than a Nubian, not light brown. Are you saying Will Smith is light brown? Therefore him playing an Egyptian would make Egyptians light brown? There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than. Understand?
Example: Will Smith is a lighter brown tone than Wesley Snipes, now, this does not mean I am saying Will Smith is light brown.
^^^^By your logic you would take it as I was saying Will was light brown.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ LMAO @ whiskey trying to wiggle his way out of his s**t!
There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than.....blah blah blah...got caught stereotyping...blah blah blahPosts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues.
quote: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Talk about lack of comprehension. [Roll Eyes] I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
Sure you were.
LOL. Are you serious? You're that obtuse? Ha! Way to save face on something so trivial. More pettyness from you?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: [QB] posted by sundjata
quote:seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Again misinterpretations, I said light-er brown tone than a Nubian, not light brown. Are you saying Will Smith is light brown? Therefore him playing an Egyptian would make Egyptians light brown? There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than. Understand?
Semantics. I know exactly what you said. "lighter brown", "meduim brown", it's all obsfucation. It all boils down to Will Smith not being Black enough, or since he's "probably" mixed, not negro enough to play the Sudanese Taharqa, even though YOU don't even know what Taharqa's complexion was nor can explain effectively how Smith resembles Egyptians more so than Kushites, what the dichotomy between Egyptians and Kushites were [in evidence], and why the emphasis on skin color alone?
quote:Example: Will Smith is a lighter brown tone than Wesley Snipes
Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
quote:^^^^By your logic you would take it as I was saying Will was light brown.
Such an interpretation is subjective. Harping on the nuance of how "dark" you think he is, is irrelevant. The comparisons and attributions are what's sloppy.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:LOL. Are you serious? You're that obtuse? Ha! Way to save face on something so trivial. More pettyness from you?
Yea ok, sure like I said. You thought I was calling you a fraud, why else would you mention name calling and attacks towards you, which I never did? Which was actually towards xxyman and NOT you.
quote:Semantics. I know exactly what you said. "lighter brown", "meduim brown", it's all obsfucation. It all boils down to Will Smith not being Black enough, or since he's "probably" mixed, not negro enough to play the Sudanese Taharqa, even though YOU don't even know what Taharqa's complexion was nor can explain effectively how he resembles Egyptians more so than Kushites, what the dichotomy between Egyptians and Kushites were [in evidence], and why the emphasis on skin color alone?
Yea yea, stop with the nonsense. I never said Will Smith was not black enough or "negro" enough to play Taharqa. I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture being that he is an African American, through 300 years, his ancestors might have mixed. Again making it clear to you, I never said since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian. I said that because of his lighter brown skin tone he would
quote:Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
An example of how I meant it from the beginning Will Smith is a lighter brown than most depictions of the Nubians, whereas most depictions of Egyptians show a more brown-reddish hue, like Will, both Ancient Egyptians/Nubians are still African 100%.
quote: Such an interpretation is subjective. Harping on the nuance of how "dark" you think he is, is irrelevant. The comparisons and attributions are what's sloppy.
No, harping on the misinterpretations of what you thought I meant is nauseating.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic