Since majority of it bearers are Caucasians.West Asia is poblated also by Caucasians
So the Africans of the Great Rift Valley are "Caucasians"? If so, why?
quote:
quote:You do realize that Hg K has on average, its widest distribution in the Great Rift Valley areas on the African side and the nearby areas across the Red Sea, don't you? If so, does this say anything to you?
Yes, and also on Persia and West Asia.
Well, what's stopping you from answering the remainder of the question: If so, does this say anything to you?
quote:
quote:Secondly, what is your source, *besides wikipedia?
DNA Sites.
For the second time: name your source(s), with citation.
quote:
quote:Thirdly, is Hg K's incidence that much substantial in any case, to justify portraying the Fula as though they live amidst a large settler population of "white people", which is what your comparison to AAs suggests?
That AA also have white gnes on them,dsepite being only a little percertage.
Nonsense. I suggest you re-read my question, and answer it accordingly.
You're welcome. I just hope you read it, and more importantly, understand what is being related; otherwise, there is no point offering material that will go right over someone's head.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: So the Africans of the Great Rift Valley are "Caucasians"?By that link it is suggesting that all humans originated in Africa, yes, I know we humans originated in Africa and some of them moved out of Africa to other places,mutating in different phenotypes as adaptation to living in those places, hence the origin of what people call"races" or human variation, creating Caucasians and mongolids, then some Caucsians made a back migration to Africa, marrying the native african and adquiring the native African phenotype as they continue breeding with the native population.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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So the Africans of the Great Rift Valley are "Caucasians"? If so, why?
By that link it is suggesting that all humans originated in Africa, yes, I know we humans originated in Africa and some of them moved out of Africa to other places,mutating in different phenotypes as adaptation to living in those places, hence the origin of what people call"races" or human variation, creating Caucasians and mongolids, then some Caucsians made a back migration to Africa, marrying the native african and adquiring the native African phenotype as they continue breeding with the native population.
You don't find it odd that your reply is talking about something that has nothing to do with what you just cited?
And you obviously given up on all other requests to verify your claims, as you've dropped addressing them altogether. Maybe you shouldn't be making claims you are not prepared to backup, right?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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So the Africans of the Great Rift Valley are "Caucasians"? If so, why?
By that link it is suggesting that all humans originated in Africa, yes, I know we humans originated in Africa and some of them moved out of Africa to other places,mutating in different phenotypes as adaptation to living in those places, hence the origin of what people call"races" or human variation, creating Caucasians and mongolids, then some Caucasians made a back migration to Africa, marrying the native african and adquiring the native African phenotype as they continue breeding with the native population.
You don't find it odd that your reply is talking about something that has nothing to do with what you just cited?
And you obviously given up on all other requests to verify your claims, as you've dropped addressing them altogether. Maybe you shouldn't be making claims you are not prepared to backup, right?
The letters in bold are the answers to your question.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Nonsense. I suggest you re-read my question, and answer it accordingly.
African Americans aren't pure Africans, not like the majority in west Africa, who had only sub-saharan ancestry and intact phenotype.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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So the Africans of the Great Rift Valley are "Caucasians"? If so, why?
By that link it is suggesting that all humans originated in Africa, yes, I know we humans originated in Africa and some of them moved out of Africa to other places,mutating in different phenotypes as adaptation to living in those places, hence the origin of what people call"races" or human variation, creating Caucasians and mongolids, then some Caucasians made a back migration to Africa, marrying the native african and adquiring the native African phenotype as they continue breeding with the native population.
You don't find it odd that your reply is talking about something that has nothing to do with what you just cited?
And you obviously given up on all other requests to verify your claims, as you've dropped addressing them altogether. Maybe you shouldn't be making claims you are not prepared to backup, right?
The letters in bold are the answers to your question.
It dances around the question. Try again: Are Africans of the Great Rift Valley "caucasians"? Yes or no.
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: For the second time: name your source(s), with citation.
So, the national geographic site told you that the Fulani have K2 in so and so incidences, and which is considered "white ancestry"? Where?
quote:African Americans aren't pure Africans, not like the majority in west Africa, who had only sub-saharan ancestry and intact phenotype.
Drop your obsession with African Americans for a minute, and focus on the Fulani, whom you compared to the former, will you; deja vu....
First of all, since when did Hg K become synonymous with "white ancestry"? The same question may be asked about your so-called West Asia.
You do realize that Hg K has on average, its widest distribution in the Great Rift Valley areas on the African side and the nearby areas across the Red Sea, don't you? If so, does this say anything to you?
Secondly, what is your source, *besides wikipedia?
Thirdly, is Hg K's incidence (which for some odd reason you equate with "white ancestry") that much substantial in any case, to justify portraying the Fula as though they live amidst a large settler population of "white people", which is what your comparison to AAs suggests?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Prmiddleeastern Exactly what ancestry or Haplogroups are "WHITE"?
Can we call all mutations that are YAP+ (Particularly Haplogroup D) "Black" Ancestry?
Looking at the latests reconstruction of the "Earliest European" what can you draw from that regarding the "AGE" of such "White People"
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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The mutations from F to T are "White"ancestry, F* is the Proto-Caucasid Man, the original "white" who migrated outside Africa and ancestor of all Caucasians.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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white ancestery are you kidding me what aabout NO haplogroup from which descendent haplogroup O which is mongolid no way around it about haplogroup q which natiave americans carry again mongolid most if them dont even carry slc24a5 meaning thaey are not white you cant denay that haplogroup q descendents from f so calling it caucasian is not the right term or white white people carry slc24a5 the balkan v13 guys are much more white to me than haplogroup t and j1 in sudan somalia e3b1c1
quote:Nonsense. I suggest you re-read my question, and answer it accordingly.
African Americans aren't pure Africans, not like the majority in west Africa, who had only sub-saharan ancestry and intact phenotype.
You know this about African-Americans according to who? And who says the "majority" of West Africans have only "sub-saharan" ancestry and "intact phenotype"?? What does a West African "intact phenotype" look like anyway?
Are you aware of the very people of this discussion - Fulani - whom many African-Americans share lineage with?? Add to that Songhai and Hausa, ALL of whom at one time occupied areas ABOVE/WITHIN the Sahara stretching all the way past Sudan?
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: white ancestery are you kidding me what aabout NO haplogroup from which descendent haplogroup O which is mongolid no way around it about haplogroup q which natiave americans carry again mongolid most if them dont even carry slc24a5 meaning thaey are not white you cant denay that haplogroup q descendents from f so calling it caucasian is not the right term or white white people carry slc24a5 the balkan v13 guys are much more white to me than haplogroup t and j1 in sudan somalia e3b1c1
Thanks for the correction, F is the Eurasian man.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: It dances around the question. Try again: Are Africans of the Great Rift Valley "caucasians"? Yes or no.They are part caucasian or have little Caucasian percentage.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: So, the national geographic site told you that the Fulani have K2 in so and so incidences, and which is considered "white ancestry"? Where?
Yes, it is white ancestry because also the Phoenicians beared that haplogroup and it came from West Asia,Caucasid land.
quote:Drop your obsession with African Americans for a minute, and focus on the Fulani, whom you compared to the former, will you;
Fulani had a little white percentage from a Caucasid haplotype.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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So, the national geographic site told you that the Fulani have K2 in so and so incidences, and which is considered "white ancestry"? Where?
Yes, it is white ancestry because also the Phoenicians beared that haplogroup and it came from West Asia,Caucasid land.
You have a tendency to answer your citations with some totally off-topic drivel. I asked you this [even though it is right above]: So, the national geographic site told you that the Fulani have K2 in so and so incidences, and which is considered "white ancestry"? Where?
But now that you mentioned it,
1)What evidence do you have that suggests K2 emerged in your so-called "West Asia"; where specifically in that area, and in which specific population?
2)When did it emerge; were "white people" around then, and if so, according to what tangible evidence?
3)Just because some non-African group presumably happens to share a clade, makes it "white ancestry"; on what planet does that make sense?
"West Asians" share P2 markers with mainland Africans; does this then make P2 "white ancestry", per your reasoning?
----
Ps - I know that you probably won't learn this from browsing wikipedia, but Fulani are not confined to one region; rather they are spread across western Africa, with some refuge in Sudan. So a small Fulani sample in say, Cameroon, is not the sum total of what Fulani is in Cameroon itself, let alone elsewhere. An no, they don't live amidst settler "white caucasoids". Have you learned something new today? I hope so.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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samuel because the pheonician carry k2 y haplogroup doesnt make that white marker k2 in lebanon is 4.7% e1b1b1c1 -m34 is 4% in lebanon they are in the same frequency the pheonicians also carry m34 thats why we see it in cyprus and sicily check the pheonician genes research go to the supplemental data about f euroasian agree but not white since some of F descendents are mongolid i gave you examples haplogroup o and haplogroup Q which is related to haplogroup R is also mongolid native americans and chinese dont look white sorry man they just dont e3b1c1
Posts: 371 | From: egypt | Registered: Feb 2009
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prmiddleeastern aka "prmix" from the race loon forums wrote: ------------------------------ Yes, I would do when I find one with that ancestry. ------------------------------
Translation: I won't do it because I know that if I do I will wind up getting my fat down syndrome looking ass kicked. I also won't do it because it ruins my race fantasies and mythologies.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: prmiddleeastern aka "prmix" from the race loon forums wrote:Translation: I won't do it because I know that if I do I will wind up getting my fat down syndrome looking ass kicked. I also won't do it because it ruins my race fantasies and mythologies.
yes I would, and how do you know that much about me, do you go spying on these forums, my "savior of the black phenotype"(Nothing against ethnicities but you aren't the spokeperson for anyone)
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:T is a rare haplogroup in Europe (less than 1% of the population). It originated around the Red Sea (maybe in Ethiopia) at least 30,000 years ago, making it one of the oldest haplogroups found in Eurasia. It is most common in north-east Africa and the west coast of the Arabian peninsula, where it accounts for approximately 5 to 8% of the male lineages. Besides these regions and Europe, T is found as far as southern India, Russia, Tanzania and Cameroon. Its highest density is actually found among the Fulbe people of Cameroon (18% of the population). Within Europe there are a few pockets with surprisingly high densities of haplogroup T, like the town of Sciacca in Sicily (18%), on the Spanish island of Ibiza (17%) or Serbia (7%). The populations of Italy, Portugal, Greece, and (oddly enough) Estonia, all have between 3 and 4% of haplogroup T.
The spread of haplogroup T in Europe is closely linked to the expansion of E1b1b from Egypt and the Near East to the Balkans and Danube basin. Its presence around the Mediterranean can be attributed to the Phoenicians colonisation (1200-800 BCE). The pocket in Estonia might be due to a founder effect in the region's Jewish population. Among famous people, Thomas Jefferson belonged to haplogroup T.
I found this new origin information on this site, you are right about the Native African origin of this haplogroup, this suggests it moved to Eurasia from Ethiopia.
2)
quote:When did it emerge; were "white people" around then, and if so, according to what tangible evidence?
There were pigmented caucasians(mediteranean phenotype)but in the case of T, as the "new" origins say, they were Native African.
3)
quote:Just because some non-African group presumably happens to share a clade, makes it "white ancestry"; on what planet does that make sense?
It is the origin of the clade that makes its ancestry.
quote:"West Asians" share P2 markers with mainland Africans; does this then make P2 "white ancestry", per your reasoning?
It depends were P2 originated.
----
quote:Ps - I know that you probably won't learn this from browsing wikipedia, but Fulani are not confined to one region; rather they are spread across western Africa, with some refuge in Sudan. So a small Fulani sample in say, Cameroon, is not the sum total of what Fulani is in Cameroon itself, let alone elsewhere. An no, they don't live amidst settler "white caucasoids". Have you learned something new today? I hope so. [/QB]
Yes, about the African origin of Y-DNA T.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: samuel because the pheonician carry k2 y haplogroup doesnt make that white marker k2 in lebanon is 4.7% e1b1b1c1 -m34 is 4% in lebanon they are in the same frequency the pheonicians also carry m34 thats why we see it in cyprus and sicily check the pheonician genes research go to the supplemental data about f euroasian agree but not white since some of F descendents are mongolid i gave you examples haplogroup o and haplogroup Q which is related to haplogroup R is also mongolid native americans and chinese dont look white sorry man they just dont
Clade Origins is what makes its ancestry, not what populations carry the clades and yes F is Eurasian.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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prmiddleeastern wrote: -------------------------- yes I would, and how do you know that much about me, do you go spying on these forums, my "savior of the black phenotype"(Nothing against ethnicities but you aren't the spokeperson for anyone) --------------------------
ha ha ha heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Folks, this is a king sized strawman.
Let's see you go around on race loon forums putting your down syndrome face on your posts and then you actually try to accuse someone of following you around?
downy aka prmiddleeastern is a typical participant in the race loon forums.
He obsesses African Americans/Africans and needs desperately to have any of them who doesn't fit his racial fantasy of what an African looks like, to be this fantasy of being "mixed".
You see the fantasy is created because Africans who are deemed to have a similar look to the Ancient Egyptians cannot possibly be unmixed Africans because if they were it would be bad news for the Eurocentrists.
There would be no way for the Euros to lay claim to Ancient Egypt. The "mixed" myth in the mind of the Eurocentrist will allow him to lay such claim to an African culture and history.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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my immpresion is that samuel is a racist who hates africans is hate is even more to the e1b1b1 because it actuley left africa and fucked is white bitches in western asia iberia and the balkan as somalid v13 said well the europids are also enemy of the somalid race so i define him as enemy along the neo-negroid e3a both wants to dipresed the somalid race e1b1b1 e3b1c1
Posts: 371 | From: egypt | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: samuel because the pheonician carry k2 y haplogroup doesnt make that white marker k2 in lebanon is 4.7% e1b1b1c1 -m34 is 4% in lebanon they are in the same frequency the pheonicians also carry m34 thats why we see it in cyprus and sicily check the pheonician genes research go to the supplemental data about f euroasian agree but not white since some of F descendents are mongolid i gave you examples haplogroup o and haplogroup Q which is related to haplogroup R is also mongolid native americans and chinese dont look white sorry man they just dont
Clade Origins is what makes its ancestry, not what populations carry the clades and yes F is Eurasian.
Ok then so you are incorrect by calling an ancestral marker "White" right? There is no place such as "Whitistan" Ask yourself really, where do "White" People come from. How long have they been around. Now how long have such markers been around.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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downy aka prmiddleeastern is a typical participant in the race loon forums.
He obsesses African Americans/Africans and needs desperately to have any of them who doesn't fit his racial fantasy of what an African looks like, to be this fantasy of being "mixed".
You see the fantasy is created because Africans who are deemed to have a similar look to the Ancient Egyptians cannot possibly be unmixed Africans because if they were it would be bad news for the Eurocentrists.
There would be no way for the Euros to lay claim to Ancient Egypt. The "mixed" myth in the mind of the Eurocentrist will allow him to lay such claim to an African culture and history.
That is a very unassertive assumption form your part. Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: my immpresion is that samuel is a racist who hates africans is hate is even more to the e1b1b1 because it actuley left africa and fucked is white bitches in western asia iberia and the balkan as somalid v13 said well the europids are also enemy of the somalid race so i define him as enemy along the neo-negroid e3a both wants to dipresed the somalid race e1b1b1 e3b1c1
Another unassertive assumption. Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by astenb: Ok then so you are incorrect by calling an ancestral marker "White" right? There is no place such as "Whitistan" Ask yourself really, where do "White" People come from. How long have they been around. Now how long have such markers been around. [/QB]
They come from West Asia, where the variation first appeared, as the Asian variation(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese) first appeared in Asia.But Caucasians were pigmented when they lived in West Asia(Arabs, Persians), but got their depigmentation when going up north to Europe because of the cold climate and different environment, so Europe could be called Whitistan because that is where the white skin mutation ocurred. Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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what your point so the palestinians are europeans since 99% of them carry slc24a5 derived allel and also 57% of them carry slc45a2 derived alle which is the european varient your assumapation that middle eastern were pigmented is not correct only arabians are more dark the levant were i live i see palestinians every day they are white evidence by the above slc24a5 and slc45a2 e3b1c1
quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: what your point so the palestinians are europeans since 99% of them carry slc24a5 derived allel and also 57% of them carry slc45a2 derived alle which is the european varient your assumapation that middle eastern were pigmented is not correct only arabians are more dark the levant were i live i see palestinians every day they are white evidence by the above slc24a5 and slc45a2 e3b1c1
Palestinians are half pigmented, they don't have blonde hair and blue eyes,yes, they are caucasians(The levantines)but not euro white.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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yes i know the europeans consider only them as white they are racist i would say that in western asia in terms of pigmanation the levantines i mean palestinians are the closest to europeans in terms of the slc24a5 and slc45a2 infact southern europoeans such sardinians carry close frequency to palestinians in terms of slc24a5 and slc45a2 derived allels ps. glad you admit they are caucasians but you say they are not white you cant be caucasian if you are not white explain to me the diffrence between caucasian and white dont tell me aboput blue eyes and blond hair since southern europeans such iberians southern italians and greeks are not that blond or blue eye at all e3b1c1
posted
e3b1c1: The term white comes from color of skin, Southern Euros are caucasic euros but not white euro, the correct term is caucasian, caucasian is the phenotype, white is only the skin color,as native African should be the correct term and not black because not all Native Africans are black, neither the Asians can be called yellow because not all of them are yellow.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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ok southern european are caucasian like the levantines who are caucasians but not white about native african dont worry any one knows that morrocans and algerians are natiave africans but no one call them black my m81 cousins there usually have european mtdna such h1 , h3 , v, who diffused from iberia and other euroasian mtdna who diffused from west asia abouth the egyptions no onew call them black jjust those afrocentric dudes in this forum northen egyptions are more closer to levantines in terms of mtdna and the slc24a5 slc45a2 derived allels e3b1c1
quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: that morrocans and algerians are natiave africans but no one call them black
They came from the Middle East, they live in Africa but their phenotype is not native to Africa, but the Sub-saharid phenotype is.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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understand your point but even the native m81 cousins look mediterreanean phenotypicly ask any anthropologist will tell you that they are very diffrent from the subsharid phenotyp even thats why e1b1b1 is defined as medeterreanean acording to the genetic atlas site as oposed to the neo-negroid e3a becuase the e1b1b1 many of them are mediterreanean phenotypicly e3b1c1
quote:Originally posted by astenb: Ok then so you are incorrect by calling an ancestral marker "White" right? There is no place such as "Whitistan" Ask yourself really, where do "White" People come from. How long have they been around. Now how long have such markers been around.
They come from West Asia, where the variation first appeared, as the Asian variation(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese) first appeared in Asia.But Caucasians were pigmented when they lived in West Asia(Arabs, Persians), but got their depigmentation when going up north to Europe because of the cold climate and different environment, so Europe could be called Whitistan because that is where the white skin mutation ocurred. [/QB]
WHEN did this happen? How long ago?
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: understand your point but even the native m81 cousins look mediterreanean phenotypicly ask any anthropologist will tell you that they are very diffrent from the subsharid phenotyp even thats why e1b1b1 is defined as medeterreanean acording to the genetic atlas site as oposed to the neo-negroid e3a becuase the e1b1b1 many of them are mediterreanean phenotypicly e3b1c1
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no ediot as said your hate for e1b1b1 is well pronanunced ther guy in picture is from the horn of africa he is probably m78-v32 not m81 since this clade absent from this area m81 is north west african clade whioch also exists in iberia antonio banderas is m81 he look mediterreanean no way around it e3b1c1
quote: E1b1b1b (E-M81) is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in the Maghreb, dominated by its sub-clade E-M183. It is thought to have originated in the area of North Africa 5,600 years ago.[1][42] It is colloquially referred to as the "Berber marker" for its prevalence among Mozabite, Moyen Atlas, Kabyle and other Amazigh groups, E-M81 is also quite common among North African Arab groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 80% in the Maghreb. This includes the Saharawish for whose men Bosch et al. (2001) reports that approximately 76% are M81+.
posted
count on me i know to recognize e3b member and i can asure you that he is m81 in case you didnt know were did he born i tell you were in malaga in this country 11.5% m81 in malaga so there is a big chance i am right about my gusse call me crazy but i think saddam husein was also e3b member m78-v22 i am willing to bet on it that if he had done dna tests i will be right as i talled i can recognize racialy an e3b member count on me ps. thanks for the map it is from wikpedia it shows m81 and you also see it in iberia in canatabraia and andalucia from were banderas family came at least we agree that he look mediterreanean e3b1c1
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i dont no you tell me what i wanted to show you that e3b exist also in population who look caucasian thats all you said taht maybe you are r1b or e3b i dont belive you are an e3b as i siad i feal that you have hate for e3b generally i think you are r1b but m81 was also among the conquistadors who conquer puerto-rico and mexico it is found in those country also e3b1c1
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Evergreen Writes: We need to do a better job correlating phenotype to genetics. The earliest, pre-Last Glacial Maximum Europeans entered Europe with dark skin, long limbs and crania similar to modern "Sub-Saharan" Africans.
Evergreen Posts:
Paleoamericans in a Late Pleistocene context: assessing morphological affinities M. Hubbe et al.
Recent consensus, supported by fossil, genetic and archaeological evidence, suggests that modern humans originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded northward to Europe and eastward into Asia between ca. 60-30 ky. Under this scenario, the morphological differentiation seen across human geographic populations today is recent and probably occurred during the Holocene. Early American skeletons have a distinct and well described cranial morphological pattern from Late Holocene Americans. This has previously been proposed to indicate an early migration wave into the Americas, preceding colonization by Late Holocene American groups. If this interpretation is correct, Paleoamericans should show morphological similarities to earlier, generalized Late Pleistocene modern humans. Here we place Paleoamericans in the context of Late Pleistocene human variation, exploring their morphological affinities and testing for dispersal scenarios of recent human group. Our samples comprise a large set of Paleaomerican crania from Southand Mesoamerica, African and Eurasian Late Pleistocene specimens and Howell’s worldwide series of modern humans. Twenty-four linear measurements, adjusted for size, were analyzed using Principal Components Analysis, Canonical Variates Analysis, Mahalanobis distances (D2) and cluster analysis. Morphological distances among groups were also compared to distance models representing distinct dispersion scenarios, using Mantel correlation tests. Results show Paleoamerican samples grouping with Upper Paleolithic Eurasians and recent African groups. Furthermore, the best fitting dispersal scenario to the morphological distances is one that considers Paleoamericans as an early expansion into the Americas, preceding much of the current human geographic diversification.
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by e3b1c1: i dont belive you are an e3b as i siad i feal that you have hate for e3b generally
No, I don't have hate for E3b, but I don't like trying to separate a subclade from another and saying it is superior one of another clade.
quote:i think you are r1b but m81 was also among the conquistadors who conquer puerto-rico and mexico it is found in those country also
How do you know it, you haven't even seen my phenotype and you already say that I am r1b? can you determine a person's haplogroup by looking at his phenotype?
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Evergreen: Evergreen Writes: We need to do a better job correlating phenotype to genetics. The earliest, pre-Last Glacial Maximum Europeans entered Europe with dark skin, long limbs and crania similar to modern "Sub-Saharan" Africans.
Evergreen Posts:
Paleoamericans in a Late Pleistocene context: assessing morphological affinities M. Hubbe et al.
Recent consensus, supported by fossil, genetic and archaeological evidence, suggests that modern humans originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded northward to Europe and eastward into Asia between ca. 60-30 ky. Under this scenario, the morphological differentiation seen across human geographic populations today is recent and probably occurred during the Holocene. Early American skeletons have a distinct and well described cranial morphological pattern from Late Holocene Americans. This has previously been proposed to indicate an early migration wave into the Americas, preceding colonization by Late Holocene American groups. If this interpretation is correct, Paleoamericans should show morphological similarities to earlier, generalized Late Pleistocene modern humans. Here we place Paleoamericans in the context of Late Pleistocene human variation, exploring their morphological affinities and testing for dispersal scenarios of recent human group. Our samples comprise a large set of Paleaomerican crania from Southand Mesoamerica, African and Eurasian Late Pleistocene specimens and Howell’s worldwide series of modern humans. Twenty-four linear measurements, adjusted for size, were analyzed using Principal Components Analysis, Canonical Variates Analysis, Mahalanobis distances (D2) and cluster analysis. Morphological distances among groups were also compared to distance models representing distinct dispersion scenarios, using Mantel correlation tests. Results show Paleoamerican samples grouping with Upper Paleolithic Eurasians and recent African groups. Furthermore, the best fitting dispersal scenario to the morphological distances is one that considers Paleoamericans as an early expansion into the Americas, preceding much of the current human geographic diversification.
This confirms Brace 2005 as to Europeans, and Hanihara 1996 as to early West Asians looking ike africans. So here again, we have a distant population grouping with Africans and with older Europeans (who looked like Africans).
According to Tishkoff the OOA sequence is deep sub-Saharan Africa - to -> N.E. East Africa (which is sub-saharan via Ethiopia, Kenya or Somalia) and -> then other non-African populations.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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i dont know top determain all the haplogroups only by pheonotype but e3b i can determain show me a picture and i will tell you if you are e3b or not ps. i know how to recognize e3b e3b1c1
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So how then do we classify Andaman Islanders, Fijians, New Hebridians and New Guineans? Throw into that mix too the Asutralian Aborigenese and the now exticnt Tasmanians? None of these 2 groups is E3a or E3b. rather they are classified as Asia in terms of Hgs.
But back to North Africa. I have been to Casa Blanca in Morocco a few times. I have also flown on Air Maroc a few times too. Thus I have a pretty good idea of what the average Moroccan looks like. The average Moroccan looks like the average person in the Dominican Republic--with a sizable number looking like some Malians, Chadians, etc.
So what's all the fuss about North Africans and their supposed genotypes. To round things off: Kaddafi claims that 1/3 of Libya is "black" as he put it.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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lamin wrote: ---------------------------- But back to North Africa. I have been to Casa Blanca in Morocco a few times. I have also flown on Air Maroc a few times too. Thus I have a pretty good idea of what the average Moroccan looks like. The average Moroccan looks like the average person in the Dominican Republic ----------------------------
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Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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the morrocaNS ARE NOT BLACK THEY ARE MEDITERREANEAN THEY LIVE NEXT TO THE MEDITERREANEAN SEA THE EVOLUTION OF M81 WAS MAINLY IN NORTH WEST AFRICA CLOSE TO THE COAST THE DEVOLPED MEDITEREANEAN PHENOTYPE WHICH IS DIFFRENT FORM THE NEO-NEGROID E3A PHEONTYPE MANY MORROCANS COULD PASS AS PORTUGUASE OR SPANIARDS SINCE M81 ALSO MIGRATED DURING NEOLITHIC PERIODS TO IBERIA THROUGH THE STRAIT OFF GIBRALTAR E3B1C1
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