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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: It's in the up bringing Avee..plus another un-official Jamaican saying out of many one Black people...[/QUOTE
Is that why your presidents have been white looking since Jamaica got it's independence? Shouldn't you be sing the one human race song instead? Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009
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Don't let people like fawal bait you people.
Brada showed that there is North Africans who believe in unity, thats enough for me.
Also let me add that we should not stop people from marrying the people they love. Love is God's greatest weapon given to us. All women are beautiful and to marry outside your "Race" is not a problem. We must realize that love knows no bounds.
Lets continue the sayings of the Jamaicans, "out of Many One People" We are all part of the human race and we should not try and stop people from marrying the person that they love.
GAS you really need to tone down your anger towards other Humans.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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I sing and love the One Human Race song, Something you should really try to accept. Whites are your brothers and sisters. They are not the enemy. The enemy is the Elite that controls our countries and pits us against each other. They try and mind control us and this is how they can steal from the people, since we are too busy hating on each other to unite and fight for our God given rights.
Be easy with the Human race.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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sayz who? from Norman Manley Hugh Sherer Micheal Manley were what you would mixed.. Eddie Seaga of Syrian decent,PJ Paterson dark-skinned,Portia Simson relativly dark-skinned and female,Golden Lite skinned..sooo waddda ya talking about?
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: sayz who? from Norman Manley Hugh Sherer Micheal Manley were what you would mixed.. Eddie Seaga of Syrian decent,PJ Paterson dark-skinned,Portia Simson relativly dark-skinned and female,Golden Lite skinned..sooo waddda ya talking about?
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Yup everyone except Edward Seaga is of very recent African decent who did marry a sista btw..look Jamaica is a small azz Island you cannot escape having family member who is liter or Darker than you are..as folks hails from every corner of the globe..but one would be hard pressed to find any incidence of race riots after slavery dispite the divide and conquer that the Brits had in place with their color cast system..after the Brits pulled down the union Jack and sailed back to England they really did try to reverse the effects of the color cast system...plus there was always a pro-back pro black to Africa movement in place in Jamaica..after all Jamaica is the home of the Moroons,Garvey Rasta and Bob Marley,Peter Tosh.Soo is Jamaica an Island paradise of racial harmony??? naaw but they really try to be. The class thing is way sharper...that's why a minority of North Africans carrying similar sentiments is worth my time.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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I sing and love the One Human Race song, Something you should really try to accept. Whites are your brothers and sisters. They are not the enemy. The enemy is the Elite that controls our countries and pits us against each other. They try and mind control us and this is how they can steal from the people, since we are too busy hating on each other to unite and fight for our God given rights.
Be easy with the Human race.
Peace
Are you white? I have nothing against white people if they are not meddling in the affairs of Africa resulting in the suffering of my people. You can't help who you fall in love with? Nonsense. That is a cope out.
All these successful black American roll models could not help falling in love with white women/men or is it a status symbol to have a white woman/man on your hand? No wonder other races look down on the black race. While other races are fighting to preserve their gene pool only the black race desires to lose it. http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos.htmlPosts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009
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Limme say one thing if there is no mutual respect and undrestanding in regards to culture between individuals of different cultures and faith then they shouldn't intermarry..I am not a fan of the race thing but that's because my take on that is... there is non-such biologically but culture and color is real so is racism..but that's just me.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Yup everyone except Edward Seaga is of very recent African decent who did marry a sista btw..look Jamaica is a small azz Island you cannot escape having family member who is liter or Darker than you are..as folks hails from every corner of the globe..but one would be hard pressed to find any incidence of race riots after slavery dispite the divide and conquer that the Brits had in place with their color cast system..after the Brits pulled down the union Jack and sailed back to England they really did try to reverse the effects of the color cast system...plus there was always a pro-back pro black to Africa movement in place in Jamaica..after all Jamaica is the home of the Moroons,Garvey Rasta and Bob Marley,Peter Tosh.Soo is Jamaica an Island paradise of racial harmony??? naaw but they really try to be. The class thing is way sharper...that's why a minority of North Africans carrying similar sentiments is worth my time.
LOL! Where do they hail in Africa? So you buy the one drop rule,aye? This is where true black nationalist will not see eyes to with you people. So, why you are not singing one human family song instead of egypt was a black civilization, de blaak man founded the chinese dynasty, de blaak man be the creator of indian civilization,De moors be black and nonsense like that. Wanna be a black nationalist you have to forget white pussy and what ever have you in between. Ok, you may have some non-black DNA but you can commit to the black cause by not procreating with non-blacks to futher dilute whatever black you have left. These mongrels black are bring in to this world will be an addition to the people intent on destroying African people. We've seen coloureds in South Africa siding with there white fathers. If there was a racial war in SA it is possible the mongrels will fight for the white side.
Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009
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LOL all you want...and not you anguish..yes I do get suckered all the time don't I. ..but I am talking to ms thang...who thinks she is Blackr than thou..again I what did i say about mutual RESPECT between individuals of different cultures or you will produce shi!t head kids..mixed marriage is not something one enters in casually especially coming from different back grounds I am for who ever is of African decent and self-ID as such..one drop rule or no rule. Almost forget Jamaicans hail from All over Africa as west as Senegal or even Islands off shore to as far east as Madagascar Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. Me say war.Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: LOL all you want...and not you anguish..yes I do get suckered all the time don't I. ..but I am talking to ms thang...who thinks she is Blackr than thou..again I what did i say about mutual RESPECT between individuals of different cultures or you will produce shi!t head kids..mixed marriage is not something one enters in casually especially coming from different back grounds I am for who ever is of African decent and self-ID as such..one drop rule or no rule. Almost forget Jamaicans hail from All over Africa as west as Senegal or even Islands off shore to as far east as Madagascar Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. Me say war.
You are talking to a 6,2" black man. Not a woman. I don't get your posts are you doing patwa?
Posts: 87 | From: Sweden | Registered: Sep 2009
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That defintiely goes to show where your intellect drowned...
Hilarious! You accuse me of resorting to ad-hominem attacks, yet you do exactly the same! Why don't or any of the others here even bother to refute the main points in that video? Could it be due to the fact that despite all these so called "studies" that prove the blackness of the Moors and by extension all of North Africa, there is absolutely not one smidgen of artistic evidence to support that notion? All the art that is contemporaneous with the Andalusian Period, almost exclusively show the Moors to be Caucasian and not Negroid. All the art from Ancient Carthage and Numidia show their inhabitants to be of Mediterranean extraction and not Black African. Finally the Egyptians, to whom Afrocentrist are obsessed with trying to blackwash, show the Ancient Libyans as being creme white. Yet still, in the face of all this evidence, Afrocentrists insist that the Ancient and Medieval Maghreb, was one big giant Negroland. Pathetic really.
quote:You were called out on this lie before, yet you still promote it kid? Did you somehow magically remember the mainstream scholar who stated that modern Egyptians are the same as ancients?
Or is this simply the product of Mathilda's biased handy work that you're citing? Please say it aint so...lol
Btw, don't even dare to mention Keita either, because as I noted the last time when you tried to use him to your bolster your argument, he was not saying anything near to what you were implying.
And of course afterwards you went missing from that thread lol.
How about you start answering some of my questions and stop with the games. Just what exactly are your qualifications? Do you have any formal training in the disciples that you claim to be expert in? Just who exactly is the "kid?" I've seen your myspace, back when you went under the moniker "knowledgeiskey718" and you and I are practically the same age! You must hate yourself don't you, being Afro-Latino and all. You know the white Americans will never accept you as one of their own, due to the Negroid blood flowing through your veins, and although the blacks claim to embrace you(mostly due to the fact that they'll claim anything, thats just how desperate they are) you know that they're secretly jealous of the fact that you have soft hair, light skin, and handsome(i.e. Caucasoid) features. So how do you compensate for this? You go rouge, and embrace the most fringe tenets of Afrocentric historiography, all in a desperate attempt to prove your blackness. Sad!
quote:Fawal for someone who claims not to have any time to debate the issues you do exert alot of energy expressing your own subjective opinions informed by hopelessly outdated themes. I mean "Nubians incidentally, have been found to have mostly Caucasian genes".
How funny! Try to bait me into a new thread, just because you can't string together a coherent rebuttal to my last post.
Posts: 138 | From: تونس | Registered: Feb 2009
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If Mansa Musa, Queen Nzinga et al were so great, why did they leave behind absolutely NOTHING as a testament to their glory?
Like say, this 14th century map rendition of Italian origin. Mind you, this was at a time when western Europe was not geopolitically on the map in all the major trade networks around the world [Rome was long gone]...
LMFAO!!! A map! Really! Is that the best you could do? You were better off making a point with this over-sized mudhut:
And you yourself pointed out that that map was of Italian origin. The thing that I've always found quite peculiar about that rendition of the Catalan Map is the fact that Mansa Musa is shown as being significantly darker skinned than he is shown in the original map. But then again Afrocentrists will simply claim that the original was "whitened up" by eurocentrists hell bent on erasing Black African history.
Posts: 138 | From: تونس | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bob_01: [QBWhat's wrong with a black man marrying a Hispanic or Native womanThose peoples do not make up the dominant classes. For that reason, it seems rather limited to knock that.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Thanks agent 018 for answering my question on what evidence you have that the woman in question is "native". lol
Anansi, GAS is using text book provocateur tactics: take advantage of any division in the ranks of the enemy.
Becoming rather obvious.
Every thing. If you love your what you are(race) marrying out side your race should be a no no. Should a make conscious decision not marrying outside your kind no matter how you feel about a non black woman/man. That is how you preserve your race. I have had my share of white women. Some wanted to procreate with me but I refused. Settle for a woman from my country and "tribe". Am happy.... Here are African Americans cream dela cream, roll models for black children. All have white wives and girl friends. Pathetic.
How cute. Change the train of conversation as soon as you see your little friends are in a jam. But I do like that last link that you provided though. It resonates quite well with a point that I made in an earlier thread: NO respectable man of status wants a black b*tch on his arm!
Posts: 138 | From: تونس | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote: there is absolutely not one smidgen of artistic evidence to support that notion?
Stop derailing my thread you sneaky cracker. Now I demand you to list a significant and notable n cracker civilization in ancient Scandinavia comparable to Egypt, Nubia, and Ghana.
Your race of demonic mass murderers, rapists, and thieves are a failed devilish pig **** race. Your filthy pig-skinned race of DEMONIC mass murderers keep lying about Egypt and the Moors being crackers. Egypt, Nubia and Ghana were Black civilizations that were thriving thousands of years and light years ahead of Northern Europe, dumb ****. You White supremacist bloodsuckers lie that every one of these civilizations were White because they have no ancient civilization of their own. Before 1500 AD Europe was **** and you were burning you own scientists alive before the Moors gave you the light of civilization. The Moors , Malians, Kushites, Nubians, and Egyptians were scientifically advanced and had more civility then the repulsive crackers and ALL OF these groups were Black. In your retarded cracker rant, you cite a youtube video from a retarded CRACKER animal WHORE who has no credentials at all. Meanwhile we cite sources from S.o.Y keita and other scholars. I challenge you to name a civilization and an amazing accomplishment that took place in ancient Scandinavia. In your silly cracker rant, you asked what the Malians accomplished. Well stupid ****, the Malians found out the rotation of the earth and unlike you stupid,disgusting, pig-skinned fucks they didn't mass-murder their scientists for doing so. Whites are the only race that have ever mass-murdered their own so-called scientist. Why?
quote:t the height of its power, Mali had at least 400 cities, and the interior of the Niger Delta was very densely populated. One of the cities, Timbuktu rose from obscurity to great commercial and cultural importance. It became a centre of learning, one of the foremost centres of Islamic scholarship in the world.
The mosque of the University of Sankore was highly distinguished for the teaching of Koranic theology and law, besides other subjects such as astronomy and mathematics.
In the 14th century, Timbuktu had an estimated population of 115,000 people. Typically, 25,000 were at university and 20,000 were at school. London, by contrast, had a total 14th century population of 20,000 people.
Similarly, Old Djenne, one of the early cities that date back to 250 BC (the city was part of the old Ghana Empire and passed on to the Mali Empire when Ghana fell), had a population of 20,000 people. London, again, would wait another 700 years to reach this figure.
Also, old astronomical manuscripts from the medieval desert collections in Mali and Mauritania show that the Africans knew about the lunar cycle and its shadows long before any European thought about it. In 2002, Michael Palin, a BBC programme maker, returned from Timbuktu to report that the Great Mosque of Timbuktu "has a collection of scientific texts that clearly show the planets circling the sun. They date back hundreds of years ... It is convincing evidence that the scholars of Timbuktu knew a lot more than their counterparts in Europe".
If Mansa Musa, Queen Nzinga et al were so great, why did they leave behind absolutely NOTHING as a testament to their glory?
Like say, this 14th century map rendition of Italian origin. Mind you, this was at a time when western Europe was not geopolitically on the map in all the major trade networks around the world [Rome was long gone]...
LMFAO!!! A map! Really! Is that the best you could do? You were better off making a point with this over-sized mudhut:
And you yourself pointed out that that map was of Italian origin. The thing that I've always found quite peculiar about that rendition of the Catalan Map is the fact that Mansa Musa is shown as being significantly darker skinned than he is shown in the original map. But then again Afrocentrists will simply claim that the original was "whitened up" by eurocentrists hell bent on erasing Black African history.
Answer my question cracker. Name a fucking notable civilization located in ancient Scandinavia.
Crannog dwelling typical of most of Europe up to 500 AD:
That defintiely goes to show where your intellect drowned...
Hilarious! You accuse me of resorting to ad-hominem attacks, yet you do exactly the same! Why don't or any of the others here even bother to refute the main points in that video?
There were no ad-hominems just simply speaking the truth, since Mathilda is incredibly biased and bigoted when doing her research, and so I see right through you if this is who you adhere to, understand?
And the reason no one bothers with Mathildas videos is because she has to approve comments posted to her board of which you don't really know if it would ever be posted due to her biased approach, basically if she doesn't like what you say she'll simply block you.
Whereas here, you can come express your thoughts as you want to, there's no moderation here, but you damn well better be sure your feelings are backed by actual evidence other than your own flaming emotions (all you mathildites know how to do)!!
Because you're going to be called out on it!!
quote:Originally posted by fawal: Could it be due to the fact that despite all these so called "studies" that prove the blackness of the Moors and by extension all of North Africa, there is absolutely not one smidgen of artistic evidence to support that notion? All the art that is contemporaneous with the Andalusian Period, almost exclusively show the Moors to be Caucasian and not Negroid. All the art from Ancient Carthage and Numidia show their inhabitants to be of Mediterranean extraction and not Black African. Finally the Egyptians, to whom Afrocentrist are obsessed with trying to blackwash, show the Ancient Libyans as being creme white. Yet still, in the face of all this evidence, Afrocentrists insist that the Ancient and Medieval Maghreb, was one big giant Negroland. Pathetic really.
If you really want to discuss the Moors, then there are plenty of threads that deal with it here at ES you can post in...where you won't be moderated or deleted for having opposing views.
quote:Originally posted by fawal:
quote:You were called out on this lie before, yet you still promote it kid? Did you somehow magically remember the mainstream scholar who stated that modern Egyptians are the same as ancients?
Or is this simply the product of Mathilda's biased handy work that you're citing? Please say it aint so...lol
Btw, don't even dare to mention Keita either, because as I noted the last time when you tried to use him to your bolster your argument, he was not saying anything near to what you were implying.
And of course afterwards you went missing from that thread lol.
How about you start answering some of my questions and stop with the games. Just what exactly are your qualifications? Do you have any formal training in the disciples that you claim to be expert in?
Where did I ever profess to be an expert in any of the disciplines discussed? Do tell...or is this just a strawman distraction?
You're telling me you don't posses the intellectual capacity that would provide you with an ability to produce an unbiased analytical interpretation of scholarly papers, especially when you've been reading them for years?
Now back to the question you ran away from last time and seem to be doing now;
Which mainstream scholars profess that modern Egyptians are the same as ancient Egyptians?
What's taking you so long?
quote:Originally posted by fawal: Just who exactly is the "kid?" I've seen your myspace, back when you went under the moniker "knowledgeiskey718" and you and I are practically the same age!
Perhaps you meant my youtube page, not myspace. And I call you a kid because the way you speak is the way a child with no common sense or manners would speak, on top of the fact that all the bigoted nonsense you ramble on and on about blacks this black that, I'm pretty sure you're as quiet as a mouse around black people.
quote:Originally posted by fawal: You must hate yourself don't you, being Afro-Latino and all.
Not at all. But you seem to like going off topic..
quote:Originally posted by fawal: You know the white Americans will never accept you as one of their own, due to the Negroid blood flowing through your veins,
Lol, you're obviously projecting lil fellow, you're the one who thinks he's "white" and wants to be accepted by "white" society...not me!
quote:Originally posted by fawal: and although the blacks claim to embrace you(mostly due to the fact that they'll claim anything, thats just how desperate they are) you know that they're secretly jealous of the fact that you have soft hair, light skin, and handsome(i.e. Caucasoid) features.
First, you don't know me, second, what the hell are "Caucasoid" features?
Would you like to take a crack at answering this question?
What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
quote:Originally posted by fawal: So how do you compensate for this? You go rouge, and embrace the most fringe tenets of Afrocentric historiography, all in a desperate attempt to prove your blackness. Sad!
What fringe tenets of Afrocentrism do I embrace? Do tell...
The ancient Egyptians being indigenous tropically adapted Africans coming from the south to north, is far from Afrocentric historiography, it's actually been proven time and time again, through the numerous mainstream studies provided and discussed here time and again.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Mindovermatter, he ignored my sources. Unlike him I cited real professionals in this field not some stupid youtube video.
"In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the Ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa."
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeastern African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semitic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egypt in a close relationship with languages spoken today in north Eastern Africa as far west as Chad and South to Somalia. Archeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread North eastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early neolithic (also known as Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in the later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons."
"The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Nubians incidentally, have been found to have mostly Caucasian genes.
Cracker I challenge you you find a reliable source to support this retarded cracker claim. You fucking crackers are so inbred you all keep repeating the same bullshit. What did your "people" do before 1,500 AD? They burned their "scientists" at the stake, they were primitive, barbaric, cruel, sadistic, rapacious, prone to mass rape (vikings), and backward. You crackers do realize that virtually all of the accomplishments from Northern Europe came in the past 500years, when outsiders like the Moors translated scientific texts. The crackers now lie and say alien built the pyramids because when it became obvious the crackers had nothing to do with Egypt they tried to make up any absurd excuse to discredit Black people.
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That italian map is showing the Prestor John that is no Mansa Musa they the europeans were looking for this royal king with many riches and who was a christian alot of u african americans have alot of **** twisted and alot of your top african american scholars are to emotional and on a quest of finding who they really are rather than finding facts. The only scholars i respect and love are john clarke and John G Jackson. Afrocentrics and Eurocentrics have no glory
Posts: 410 | From: Al-Ard | Registered: Jun 2009
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Fawal you belong to a devilish race of pig-skinned mass-murderers, you disgusting ignorant, ****. The cracker ‘people’ or pig excrements in that barbaric savage shithole known as Northern Europe produced nothing even remotely close to the glories of Nubia, Egypt, and Ghana. Rather then answer my question about a notable civilization present in that retarded dump known as ancient Scandinavia; you ignorantly claim the Nubians and Egyptians were mostly Caucasians. Dumb ****, I know lying and stealing comes natural to crackers, but at least try to stop. Neither the Egyptians nor the Nubians belonged to your barbaric, cruel, sadistic, rapacious, subhuman Caucasoid race. Ignorant cracker animal, youtube is not a scholarly source for scientific evidence. I know crackers are inherently anti-science, judging by how you crackers burned the Moorish scientific texts, and mass murdered your own so-called scientists; but you need to at least try to cite scientific sources from qualified anthropologists. You accuse mindovermatter of not having qualifications when that retarded cracker animal (Mathlida) is a housewife who also has no qualifications. I don’t even know why you brought that **** up. I don’t have any qualifications in this field and your ignorant pig-skinned ass doesn’t either.
But unlike your mass-murdering, raping, pig-skinned ass, I actually cite sources from those who are qualified … not some cheap youtube video.
"The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Cracker enough with the lies. Ancient Europeans were retarded, mass-rapists, and mass murderers and nothing even vaguely resembling a sophisticated ancient civilization has ever emerged in that retarded part of the world. You can talk about how Malians built oversized mudhuts all you want. At the end of the day the Malians discovered the rotation of the planets and unlike you barbaric assholes they didn't fucking mass-murder their own scientists for doing so.
Tell me Fawal, why on earth did you cracker animals mass murder your own scientists? Why are crackers the only 'people' who have ever done such an atrocity. I mean what on earth did the vicking crackers produce that makes them such much greater than the Malians, Egyptians, and Nubians?
quote: Not only were the pagan Vikings notoriously enthusiastic about the concept of rape as sport – the historical account of a Viking chieftan's funeral makes for truly appalling reading – but....... http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47735
Let's compare to Egypt
quote: He was the world's first named architect who built Egypt's first pyramid, is often recognized as the world's first doctor, a priest,. scribe, sage, poet, astrologer, .......
Cracker ****, what makes the raping Vikings better than the ancient Egyptians WHO WERE BLACK(see my sources in the previous posts)?
Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2009
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no society ever run by black people has been functional. Nigeria should be a tropical paradise with the vast resources they have but quite the opposite is true. Blacks take over large cities like Detroit and turn them into corrupt sewers. At some point we have to be realistic here.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: no society ever run by black people has been functional. Nigeria should be a tropical paradise with the vast resources they have but quite the opposite is true. Blacks take over large cities like Detroit and turn them into corrupt sewers. At some point we have to be realistic here.
Why don't you answer the questions posed to Alcoholic, redneck?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Here I present 5 simple questions for the afronuthugger to address, let's see if he passes or fails....
1) What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
2) What is a "Negroid/Negro"? What are the cranial features associated with "Negroid", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Negroid" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
3) Are uniparental markers (Y and Mtdna) indicative of phenotype?
4) What is the difference between a tropically adapted individual and a cold adapted individual?
5) How long were anatomically modern humans living in Africa before successfully populating the world, and what non African population is closest cranio facially speaking to early AMH coming from Africa who also harbor the oldest OOA genetic lineages?
Additional two question: Can you list a civilization prior to the 1000AD that was present in Northern Europe? Was agriculture developed in this region?
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Lol, you're obviously projecting lil fellow, you're the one who thinks he's "white" and wants to be accepted by "white" society...not me!
That one does describe Fawal well. This troll is better off joining the white supremacist group. I swear, I should laugh more, when Turks (that I know) look down and despise those failed states in Maghreb.
You can join your adolescent cousins prostituting on the streets of Tel Aviv. I'll imagine soon - especially with Al Qaeda still said to be around - you'll be accepted as white. If not, you can simply just end your life, Fawal. Reincarnation may exist and it could end up becoming your lucky day.
PS: The idea that we ride on Ancient Egypt or the Sudanic complex, is preposterous. I don't think we're afraid to suggest that many primitive (forming the majority, by the way) societies exist. On the other hand, Northern Europeans cannot embrace their near-exclusive barbarian past. That is, unless, the Greeks and Romans were downright slanderous.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Hammer: no society ever run by black people has been functional. Nigeria should be a tropical paradise with the vast resources they have but quite the opposite is true. Blacks take over large cities like Detroit and turn them into corrupt sewers. At some point we have to be realistic here. Why don't you answer the questions posed to Alcoholic, redneck?
lol... Quite understandably, the bogus "hammer" fails to mention one of the most well known white people. They were/are notorious for turning urban areas into sewers of corruption, violence and substance abuse- the white Irish. [quote from a white observer]
more white "leadership" at work...
Crowds of miserable Irish darken all our towns. The wild Milesian features, looking false ingenuity, restlessness, unreason, misery and mockery, salute you on all highways and byways. The English coachman, as he whirls past, lashes the Milesian with his whip, curses him with his tongue; the Milesian is holding out his hat to beg. He is the sorest evil this country has to strive with. In his rags and laughing savagery, he is there to undertake all work that can be done by mere strength of hand and back; for wages that will purchase him potatoes.
He needs only salt for condiment; he lodges to his mind in any pighutch or doghutch, roosts in out houses; and wears a suit of tatters, the getting off and on of which is said to be a difficult operation, transacted only in festivals and the hightides of the calendar. The Saxon man if he cannot work on these terms, finds no work. He too may be ignorant; but he has not sunk from decent manhood to squalid apehood; he cannot continue there . . . There abides he, in his squalor and unreason, in his falsity and drunken violence, as the ready-made nucleus of degradation and disorder. (182-83; ch. 4)"
--Roger Swift, 2001, THOMAS CARLYLE, CHARTISM, AND THE IRISH IN EARLY VICTORIAN ENGLAND.
So much for white "role models" presuming to lecture blacks ....
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Here I present 5 simple questions for the afronuthugger to address, let's see if he passes or fails....
1) What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
2) What is a "Negroid/Negro"? What are the cranial features associated with "Negroid", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Negroid" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
3) Are uniparental markers (Y and Mtdna) indicative of phenotype?
4) What is the difference between a tropically adapted individual and a cold adapted individual?
5) How long were anatomically modern humans living in Africa before successfully populating the world, and what non African population is closest cranio facially speaking to early AMH coming from Africa who also harbor the oldest OOA genetic lineages? [/qb]
Additional two question: Can you list a civilization prior to the 1000AD that was present in Northern Europe? Was agriculture developed in this region? [/QUOTE]
lol... Perhaps yet another reading of "Mein Kampf" will allow our white "role model" insight into the answers..
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^ The sub-intellectual troll even uses non-technical terms such as "Caucasoid" and "Negroid". If this nonsense is the height that originates from his forums, I wonder, is Egyptology even a valid field?
That's why I stick to biologists and geneticist on the matter of understanding ancient diversity. As for the Moors, Fawal, the moron's, absolutist position is not even reinforced. Most Historians would suggest that Moors represented a variety of peoples, who the Europeans viewed as competitors in economic trade.
These people would include "sub-Saharan" peoples who were concentrated in Mali and elsewhere. I swear, I wonder, why doesn't the moron just end his life? He can't assimilate in America and seems to ignore white slavery that involved the Barbary Coast as a major trade post. You wouldn't expect change to occur as suggested by mainstream Egyptian media:
quote:Upper class Egyptians, often fairer than their poorer compatriots, invariably look down on lower class Egyptians who tend to be darker in complexion. There is a subtle correlation between lower income and darker complexion. The Egyptian upper classes and elites tend to be noticeably lighter in complexion than their poorer and working class compatriots. "They labour in the sun," is sometimes the cynical explanation.
But, a more accurate explanation would be that Egypt has for thousands of years been ruled by foreign, and lighter-skinned, invaders -- ***Persians, Greeks, Romans****, Arabs, ****Turks****, the French and British. A large section of the pre-revolutionary Egyptian elite could trace their ancestry to Balkan, Caucasian and Turkish roots. Moreover, Napoleon Bonaparte's French expedition was notorious for sowing its seeds in places like the Delta city of Mansoura whose women are reputedly "exceptionally beautiful"; in Egyptian common parlance that means fair-skinned, with ****light-coloured eyes and hair.**** Link
What next? Al-Ahram is an Afrocentric journal, and keep in mind, Persians are pretty "dark", suggesting the off-white "Caucasoids" you speak of, represent a recent foreign characteristic. I don't see Egyptian press in denial about this, but somehow you do.
Tunisians et al, are more-or-less identical to Persians and Turks. I see these groups everyday unlike Americans who originate from mono-cultural cities. Egyptians, on average, are noticeably much darker. That doesn't mean that those in NW Africa aren't descendant of those earlier peoples in the region. Regardless, without doubt, the dominant phenotype (assuming, all are pale) represents recent foreign, non-African/Saharan element.
Get over it. The fool hasn't even posted anything of substance from his "great" forum. Due to the high concentration of trolls here, I don't we want to be facing with a series of Eurocentric tools on that side either. Our position suggesting that Ancient Egyptians or Nubians (who are dark as hell) form a cluster with East Afican groups is far from an exaggeration.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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interesting: . Questions of identity came to fore in the 20th century as Egyptians sought to free themselves from British occupation, leading to the rise of ethno-territorial secular Egyptian nationalism (also known as "Pharaonism"). After Egyptians gained their independence from Britain, other forms of nationalism developed, including secular Arab nationalism (including pan-Arabism) and Islamism.
"Pharaonism" has its roots in the 19th century and rose to prominence in the 1920s and 1930s. It looked to Egypt's pre-Islamic past and argued that Egypt was part of a larger Mediterranean civilization. This ideology stressed the role of the Nile River and the Mediterranean Sea. Pharaonism's most notable advocate was Taha Hussein. It became the dominant mode of expression of Egyptian anti-colonial activists of the pre- and inter-war periods:“ What is most significant [about Egypt in this period] is the absence of an Arab component in early Egyptian nationalism. The thrust of Egyptian political, economic, and cultural development throughout the nineteenth century worked against, rather than for, an "Arab" orientation... This situation—that of divergent political trajectories for Egyptians and Arabs—if anything increased after 1900.[24] ”
In 1931, following a visit to Egypt, Syrian Arab nationalist Sati' al-Husri remarked that "[Egyptians] did not possess an Arab nationalist sentiment; did not accept that Egypt was a part of the Arab lands, and would not acknowledge that the Egyptian people were part of the Arab nation."[25] The later 1930s would become a formative period for Arab nationalism in Egypt, in large part due to efforts by Syrian/Palestinian/Lebanese intellectuals.[26] Nevertheless, a year after the establishment of the League of Arab States in 1945, to be headquartered in Cairo, Oxford University historian H. S. Deighton was still writing:“ The Egyptians are not Arabs, and both they and the Arabs are aware of this fact. They are Arabic-speaking, and they are Muslim —indeed religion plays a greater part in their lives than it does in those either of the Syrians or the Iraqi. But the Egyptian, during the first thirty years of the [twentieth] century, was not aware of any particular bond with the Arab East... Egypt sees in the Arab cause a worthy object of real and active sympathy and, at the same time, a great and proper opportunity for the exercise of leadership, as well as for the enjoyment of its fruits. But she is still Egyptian first and Arab only in consequence, and her main interests are still domestic.[27]
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Originally posted by Bob_01: [qb] [...]
lol... Perhaps yet another reading of "Mein Kampf" will allow our white "role model" insight into the answers..
Hammer is nothing but a Lace-curtain Irish and/or Redneck. He's acting all high, because he belongs to the first generation, who can read or write in the English language. Damn donkey needs to be sent back to the barn and remember where his people originated from.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Hammered can be dealt with easily just throw in a couple of Greek myths about some of the founding fathers of pre-classical Greece..ex the legend of Danaus,the founders of the oracle of Dodona and scientific findings like Benin hbs in Greek populations and watch him pop a vain in his head... Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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If Mansa Musa, Queen Nzinga et al were so great, why did they leave behind absolutely NOTHING as a testament to their glory?
Like say, this 14th century map rendition of Italian origin. Mind you, this was at a time when western Europe was not geopolitically on the map in all the major trade networks around the world [Rome was long gone]...
LMFAO!!! A map! Really! Is that the best you could do?
It certainly beats your best effort: look at your post. Short of weeping, what more is it?
If this simple map is not testament of the man's glory in the then remote corner of the globe (Europe), at a time when Europeans were not traveling, not part of any major trade networks of the globe, and in their so-called socio-cultural "dark age" going by Eurocentric mentality, then what does? How does a person like that, a nobody get to be known so far away across the sea, for nothing? That I have to literally drag you to reach this basic common sense, so you can see just how misinformed you are about the power of my response against your weakling emotive complaints, is telling.
quote: And you yourself pointed out that that map was of Italian origin.
Precisely, and the significance of that simple thing, is what's intriguingly lost on you.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:LMFAO!!! A map! Really! Is that the best you could do? You were better off making a point with this over-sized mudhut:
NO!! but they were quite right to use the material at hand that's genius..if we were to build a base on the moon today the cheapest and easiest way would be to use the materials at hand. But here is more stuff for you to denigrate posted 15 December, 2009 06:17 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A comment By Explorer about some people even here on E/S not realizing that stone structures exist south of the desert and that Zimbabwe is not the be all..inspired me to bump this thread.
Here is some more pics and drawings:
http://www.walata.org/eng/conoce_historia.htmThis is known as the Dhar Tichitt-Walata culture, a unique neolithic culture dating from between BC 2000 and the third century BC. No less than 400 settlements, some of them complete cities, made up this group of towns Debre Damo Monestary Axumite era. Thulamela was a counterpart of Mapungubwe and Great Zimbabwe that displayed similar architectural design and method.
Terraced hill, entranceway of Khami, capital of the Torwa StateKhami was the capital of the Torwa State and the successor of Great Zimbabwe. The techniques of Great Zimbabwe were further refined and developed. Elaborate walls were constructed by connecting carefully cut stones forming terraced hills The best known building of the period in the region is the ruined or eight century BC multi-story tower at Yeha in Ethiopia, believed to have been the capital of D'mt. Ashlar masonry was especially dominant during this period And look what folks can do with mud. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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What is the point in debating this dude?? Can't you the game and bait tactic he is using. I mean anyone that replies to the Musa map with "thats it" is clearly not even worth the effort. Do as Mindovermatter did and openly challenge him instead of the usual portrayal of African Architecture and art...that proves nothing and leads no where.
Give this Arab **** a true debate
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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My fellow Blacks, there is a problem in this world, greater than all other problems; and that problem, my friends, is the White Race.
Has the White man ever gone any where without bringing death, destruction, and disease in his wake? Is there even a single continent or country on this Earth, including his own, where the White man has not committed numerous attrocities and genocides?
For the first 5,000 years of recorded history, the White animal was content to live on his own shitty continent, running around raping, pillaging, and murdering each other like the animals they are.
The white swine were living in caves while EVERY other race on the face of the Earth had great civilizations and cultures. In Africa, there was Egypt, Nubia, Kush, Aksum, Zimbabwe, Mali; in Asia there was Israel, Pheonicia, Babylon, Persia, India, China, Japan; and the Americas had Aztec, Olmec, Mayan, and Incan civilizations. Meanwhile, Europe had primitive huts and cannibalistic tribes roaming across the continent, and nothing else.
The first civilizations in Europe were Greece and Rome. However, neither of these civilizations were White in origin, for the savage Indo-European animals merely stole from the non-White natives who they conquered. Greek civilization was stolen from the Pelasgians, who were racially linked to Levant Arabs, while the Etruscans, who were the basis of Roman civilization, were from what is now Turkey.
Furthermore, both the Greek "civilization" and the Roman "civilization" were far inferior to the Black Egyptians. The Greek and Roman savages were known for their practice of faggotry, pedophilia, and bestiality. The Spartans, who are often considered as heroic by White crackers, were known to be a bunch of flaming faggots who had sex with young boys. Alexander the (not so) Great, who conquered the Middle East not through military might or strategy, but through trickery and mass murder(which is the known cracker method of waging warfare) was a raging homo who had numerous male lovers. Most of "Greco-Roman" philosophy, science, and mathematics, was stolen from either Persians or Black Egyptians, while the "Greek" alphabet was based off the Pheonicians. Likewise, Romans stole all of their knowledge from Greeks, and were thus also greatly indebted to the superior Black master. Cracker supremacists make up for this by claiming that all of those groups were "Mediterranean Caucasoids". However, science has proven that the Mediterranean Race is a myth; that the so called Southern "European" is a mongrel with large amounts of Semetic and Negroid blood; and, finally, that the Egyptians were Black, and that the Pheonicians and Persians were most closely related to the modern inhabitants of these areas, NOT to cracker animals.
After the Roman "civilization" fell, Europe collapsed into the dark ages for a thousand years. It was only when the Black African Moors invaded and imposed civilization on you beasts, that the Renaissance began.
For the past 500 years, the cracker albino has gone around the world, raping, enslaving, and genociding the superior non Whites.
You animals have almost completely exterminated not one but TWO entire genetically distinct races of people: the Native Americans and the Australian Aborigines. You worthless savages have reduced Africa to ruins, and introduced your barbaric cultural practices(i.e. faggotry, pedophilia, bestiality, misogyny, burning of "witches", etc.) to the native Africans. You primitive, inferior apes have exterminated numerous Black African tribes, taking away the native Afrikan religions and languages, and imposing your hideous, guttural tribal speak known as English, and your barbaric, false religion known as Christianity.
You disgusting, wicked, pigskinned untermenschen have started two World Wars, and have helped to establish the racist, terrorist, genocidal, illegitimate nation of Israel. In the past twenty years, you blue eyed devils have waged three wars in the Middle East: The Gulf War, the Afghanistan War, and the Iraq War. You have imposed the embargo which killed over 500,000 Iraqi children, and which that kike whore Madeleine Albright said was "worth it" to punish Saddam Hussein. In the Iraq War, you have looted and destroyed the priceless treasures of the ancient Mesopotamian civilization. Soon, you beasts will be invading Iran, and will undoubtedly rape and murder hundreds of thousands of Iranian women and children, just as you have done to Iraq and Afghanistan. Even the so called liberal pacifist Democrats are a bunch of blood thirsty sociopaths, such as Hillary Clinton who said in a speech that she would "obliterate" Iran, if necessary, to defend the terrorist cracker supremacist nation of Israel.
All of this is more than enough to prove that Fawal belongs to a hideous, barbaric, wicked, devilish, murderous, hateful, demonic entity.
Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Do as Mindovermatter did and openly challenge him instead of the usual portrayal of African Architecture and art...that proves nothing and leads no where.
Alrighty then I guess I'll have to wait in line cause Anguish and Mind got first dibs..
Fawal The saying Black as a Moor who are euros taking about?
Where did Almoravids came from what river?
What DNA tells about the Amazigh people and their origins.
To what language family do the above belongs to.
“When tired of each noblest matron, (Gildo) hands her over to the Moors. These Sidonian mothers, married in Carthage City, must needs be mate with barbarians. He thrusts upon me an Ethiopian son-in-law. This hideous hybrid affects the cradle.”
The above Quote from Claudian...to what people was he refering to? and what part of Africa?
The answers to any of these is quite simple..it's a give away damnit..all you have to be is honest.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:There were no ad-hominems just simply speaking the truth, since Mathilda is incredibly biased and bigoted when doing her research, and so I see right through you if this is who you adhere to, understand?
And the reason no one bothers with Mathildas videos is because she has to approve comments posted to her board of which you don't really know if it would ever be posted due to her biased approach, basically if she doesn't like what you say she'll simply block you.
Whereas here, you can come express your thoughts as you want to, there's no moderation here, but you damn well better be sure your feelings are backed by actual evidence other than your own flaming emotions (all you mathildites know how to do)!!
Because you're going to be called out on it!!
quote:If you really want to discuss the Moors, then there are plenty of threads that deal with it here at ES you can post in...where you won't be moderated or deleted for having opposing views.
Yeah right! Way to dodge having to actually address the points in that video. I'm going to ask you again, and hopefully this time I'll get a response out of you: If the the Moors were Black Africans, then why is it exactly that all the art that is contemporaneous with the Andalusian period shows them to be non-Black? How is it exactly that the Ancient Carthaginians and Numidians were Black Africans when their art show them as non-Black? Why is it exactly that Ancient Egyptians showed the Ancient Libyans as creme white? I've read through those old threads on the Moors and they're full of all sorts of nonsensical circular reasoning - people are using Gregorian portraits that date hundreds of years after the Medieval Period as some sort of "proof" that the Moors were black-Africans, when the very art they themselves left behind clearly shows that they were not!
quote:Where did I ever profess to be an expert in any of the disciplines discussed? Do tell...or is this just a strawman distraction?
You're telling me you don't posses the intellectual capacity that would provide you with an ability to produce an unbiased analytical interpretation of scholarly papers, especially when you've been reading them for years?
Now back to the question you ran away from last time and seem to be doing now;
Which mainstream scholars profess that modern Egyptians are the same as ancient Egyptians?
What's taking you so long?
What strawman distraction? I don't see how thats such an invalid question. You all expect people to take your word over that of the seasoned egyptologist, anthropologist, or archeologist in the field as it concerns matters on North African historiography; I don't see why its such blasphemy to inquire as to what qualifications you all actually have. Because the harsh reality is, that most in the academic world do not agree with any of you. The sentiments expressed on this site are that of a fringe minority. If you all truly believe that the "work" that you all do here is propelling any form paradigm shift your sadly mistaken.
quote:Lol, you're obviously projecting lil fellow, you're the one who thinks he's "white" and wants to be accepted by "white" society...not me!
LMFAO! What projecting! North Africans have been classified as white since ages ago. My residency permit lists my race as white. Whenever I travel to Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece or Cypress, I'm often times mistaken for a local. Afrocentrists just hate the fact that North Africans are seen as such, due to the fact that it automatically puts their claim to the civilizations of the north in jeopardy.
quote:What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
Oh please! Caucasian does not exist, yet the even more vague terms "Black African" and "Tropically Adapted" do? I mean really, you all apply those two terms so loosely, all in a desperate attempt to claim some remnants of civilization. Most of the people that you all use as examples of black Africans in North Africa (and even the Near East!) look like whites dipped in bronze.
quote:What fringe tenets of Afrocentrism do I embrace? Do tell...
The ancient Egyptians being indigenous tropically adapted Africans coming from the south to north, is far from Afrocentric historiography, it's actually been proven time and time again, through the numerous mainstream studies provided and discussed here time and again.
Main Tenets of Afrocentrism: 1) The Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. 2) Ancient Egypt was the fount of modern day Western Civilization. 3) Blacks were responsible for the spread of agriculture amongst the Fertile Crescent. 4) Blacks were the progenitors of Greek Civilization. 5) The Etruscans either were, or had a sizable, Negroid population. 6) The Carthaginians and Numidians either were, or had a sizable, Negroid population. 7) Hannibal was a Negro. 8) Nefertiti was a Negress. 9) al-Andalus was the product of the collective efforts of Medieval blacks. 10) Afro Americans have a right to lay claim to a history that does not, in any way shape or form, belong to them. 11) There is a systemic conspiracy amongst Western Academy to hide "the true history of blacks" as a means of maintaining racial superiority. 12) Whites invented AIDS as a means of genocide against blacks. 13) There is a solidarity amongst all the dark skin peoples of the world, and as such, Afro Americans have the right to claim the histories of the Dravidians(Elam), Pacific Islanders(Khermer), and Native Americans(Olmecs) as products of their own. 14) There is a systemic effort by Western Powers, driven mostly through overt racism, to keep Black African states economically disenfranchised. 15) There is minimal, if any, Eurasian admixture in the Nubians, Sudanese, Ethiopians and Somalis. 16) The modern day descendants of various ancient peoples have little, if any say, in how their history ought to be interpreted.
I could go on for hours on that list, but I'll stop right there. If you believe at least ten out of those sixteen that I have listed, you are an Afrocentrist! And the notion that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans is far from mainstream. Only Afrocentrists believe that.
Posts: 138 | From: تونس | Registered: Feb 2009
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Why can't this cracker answer any of my questions? I want to know an ancient civilization that emerged Scandinavia than can compare to Egypt, Nubia and Ethiopia.
quote:And the notion that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans is far from mainstream. Only Afrocentrists believe that.
Bullshit!
"In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas."
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the Ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa."
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeastern African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semitic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egypt in a close relationship with languages spoken today in north Eastern Africa as far west as Chad and South to Somalia. Archeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread North eastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early neolithic (also known as Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time). Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in the later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons."
"The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."
Posts: 248 | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:There were no ad-hominems just simply speaking the truth, since Mathilda is incredibly biased and bigoted when doing her research, and so I see right through you if this is who you adhere to, understand?
And the reason no one bothers with Mathildas videos is because she has to approve comments posted to her board of which you don't really know if it would ever be posted due to her biased approach, basically if she doesn't like what you say she'll simply block you.
Whereas here, you can come express your thoughts as you want to, there's no moderation here, but you damn well better be sure your feelings are backed by actual evidence other than your own flaming emotions (all you mathildites know how to do)!!
Because you're going to be called out on it!!
quote:If you really want to discuss the Moors, then there are plenty of threads that deal with it here at ES you can post in...where you won't be moderated or deleted for having opposing views.
Yeah right! Way to dodge having to actually address the points in that video. I'm going to ask you again, and hopefully this time I'll get a response out of you: If the the Moors were Black Africans, then why is it exactly that all the art that is contemporaneous with the Andalusian period shows them to be non-Black? How is it exactly that the Ancient Carthaginians and Numidians were Black Africans when their art show them as non-Black? Why is it exactly that Ancient Egyptians showed the Ancient Libyans as creme white? I've read through those old threads on the Moors and they're full of all sorts of nonsensical circular reasoning - people are using Gregorian portraits that date hundreds of years after the Medieval Period as some sort of "proof" that the Moors were black-Africans, when the very art they themselves left behind clearly shows that they were not!
Again, if you want to discuss the Moors then go into the threads intended for such, because I didn't make ANY comment about the Moors instead I laughed at your source which is Mathilda. I'm still laughing because you still don't get it.
quote:Originally posted by fawal:
quote:Where did I ever profess to be an expert in any of the disciplines discussed? Do tell...or is this just a strawman distraction?
You're telling me you don't posses the intellectual capacity that would provide you with an ability to produce an unbiased analytical interpretation of scholarly papers, especially when you've been reading them for years?
Now back to the question you ran away from last time and seem to be doing now;
Which mainstream scholars profess that modern Egyptians are the same as ancient Egyptians?
What's taking you so long?
What strawman distraction? I don't see how thats such an invalid question. You all expect people to take your word over that of the seasoned egyptologist, anthropologist, or archeologist in the field as it concerns matters on North African historiography;
Sorry, but are you slow? What we discuss here is the work of mainstream Egyptologists anthropologists etc...that is why you can't refute it and have still failed to show us the scholars who maintain that modern Egyptians were same as the ancients right...whats taking you so long?
Which mainstream scholars profess that modern Egyptians are the same as ancient Egyptians?
quote:Originally posted by fawal: I don't see why its such blasphemy to inquire as to what qualifications you all actually have.
Actually it's a strawman distraction from actually addressing what mainstream scholars say about the areas in question.
quote:Originally posted by fawal: Because the harsh reality is, that most in the academic world do not agree with any of you. The sentiments expressed on this site are that of a fringe minority. If you all truly believe that the "work" that you all do here is propelling any form paradigm shift your sadly mistaken.
Really? So where does the following derive its information indicating ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa?
And can you refute it?
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
quote:Lol, you're obviously projecting lil fellow, you're the one who thinks he's "white" and wants to be accepted by "white" society...not me!
LMFAO! What projecting! North Africans have been classified as white since ages ago. My residency permit lists my race as white. Whenever I travel to Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece or Cypress, I'm often times mistaken for a local. Afrocentrists just hate the fact that North Africans are seen as such, due to the fact that it automatically puts their claim to the civilizations of the north in jeopardy.
No, you're not white and would not be in America where this classification of white derives. North Africa was not the same as it is now as it was in ancient times, modern coastal north Africans have a significant amount of Eurasian ancestry...mostly on the Maternal lineages, which means Africans were taking your wanna be white southwest Asians and Euros as wives...
quote:Originally posted by fawal:
quote:What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
Oh please! Caucasian does not exist, yet the even more vague terms "Black African" and "Tropically Adapted" do? I mean really, you all apply those two terms so loosely, all in a desperate attempt to claim some remnants of civilization. Most of the people that you all use as examples of black Africans in North Africa (and even the Near East!) look like whites dipped in bronze.
I asked you if you can answer the question about what cranial features are indicative of "Caucasoid" not to go off topic about what terms some people use and do not use.
I didn't ask you if it was a valid term I asked you to explain what "Caucasoid" features are and when and where they arose, amongst what population, obviously you can't answer it..
If you gather the courage to do so, the question is right here...
What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
quote:Originally posted by fawal:
quote:What fringe tenets of Afrocentrism do I embrace? Do tell...
The ancient Egyptians being indigenous tropically adapted Africans coming from the south to north, is far from Afrocentric historiography, it's actually been proven time and time again, through the numerous mainstream studies provided and discussed here time and again.
Main Tenets of Afrocentrism: 1) The Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. 2) Ancient Egypt was the fount of modern day Western Civilization. 3) Blacks were responsible for the spread of agriculture amongst the Fertile Crescent. 4) Blacks were the progenitors of Greek Civilization. 5) The Etruscans either were, or had a sizable, Negroid population. 6) The Carthaginians and Numidians either were, or had a sizable, Negroid population. 7) Hannibal was a Negro. 8) Nefertiti was a Negress. 9) al-Andalus was the product of the collective efforts of Medieval blacks. 10) Afro Americans have a right to lay claim to a history that does not, in any way shape or form, belong to them. 11) There is a systemic conspiracy amongst Western Academy to hide "the true history of blacks" as a means of maintaining racial superiority. 12) Whites invented AIDS as a means of genocide against blacks. 13) There is a solidarity amongst all the dark skin peoples of the world, and as such, Afro Americans have the right to claim the histories of the Dravidians(Elam), Pacific Islanders(Khermer), and Native Americans(Olmecs) as products of their own. 14) There is a systemic effort by Western Powers, driven mostly through overt racism, to keep Black African states economically disenfranchised. 15) There is minimal, if any, Eurasian admixture in the Nubians, Sudanese, Ethiopians and Somalis. 16) The modern day descendants of various ancient peoples have little, if any say, in how their history ought to be interpreted.
I could go on for hours on that list, but I'll stop right there. If you believe at least ten out of those sixteen that I have listed, you are an Afrocentrist!
I didn't ask you to list the tenets of Afrocentrism, I asked you to show me where and what tenets I adhere to, since you accused me of adhering to such, obviously you were talking out your ass...
quote:Originally posted by fawal: And the notion that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans is far from mainstream. Only Afrocentrists believe that.
Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food. ---Chris Ehret
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You are just promoting more voodoo. These crazy black egypt ideas are not even promoted as an alternative. You guys have produced a complete phoney set of ideas that have no basis in fact and no following.
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^^ Absolutely no basis in fact at all.. "patriot".. ---------------------------------------
Recent studies find the ancient Egyptians had a tropical body plan like sub-Saharan 'black' Africans and were not cold-adapted like European type populations. Tropical body plans also indicate darker-skin.
QUOTE: "The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the "super-Negroid" body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.
a 2008 Study puts the ancient Egyptians closer to US Blacks than whites:
Quotes:
"Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices are significantly higher in ancient Egyptians than in American Whites (except crural index among females), i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... Many of those who have studied ancient Egyptians have commented on their characteristically ''tropical'' or ''African'' body plan (Warren, 1897; Masali, 1972; Robins, 1983; Robins and Shute, 1983, 1984, 1986; Zakrzewski, 2003). Egyptians also fall within the range of modern African populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993), but close to the upper limit of modern Europeans as well, at least for the crural index (brachial indices are definitely more ''African'').. In terms of femoral and tibial length to total skeletal height proportions, we found that ancient Egyptians are significantly different from US Blacks, although still closer to Blacks than to Whites.
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range. In general, recent studies of skeletal variation among ancient Egyptians support scenarios of biological continuity through time. Irish (2006) analyzed quantitative and qualitative dental traits of 996 Egyptians from Neolithic through Roman periods, reporting the presence of a few outliers but concluding that the dental samples appear to be largely homogeneous and that the affinities observed indicate overall biological uniformity and continuity from Predynastic through Dynastic and Postdynastic periods.
Zakrzewski (2007) provided a comprehensive summary of previous Egyptian craniometric studies and examined Egyptian crania from six time periods. She found that the earlier samples were relatively more homogeneous in comparison to the later groups. However, overall results indicated genetic continuity over the Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic periods, albeit with a high level of genetic diversity within the population, suggesting an indigenous process of state formation. She also concluded that while the biological patterning of the Egyptian population varied across time, no consistent temporal or spatial trends are apparent. Thus, the stature estimation formulae developed here may be broadly applicable to all ancient Egyptian populations.." ("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf, (Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-55
Older limb studies find the same:
"In this regard it is interesting to note that limb proportions of Predynastic Naqada people in Upper Egypt are reported to be "Super-Negroid," meaning that the distal segments are elongated in the fashion of tropical Africans.....skin color intensification and distal limb elongation are apparent wherever people have been long-term residents of the tropics." (C.L. Brace, 1993. Clines and clusters..")
"An attempt has been made to estimate male and female Egyptian stature from long bone length using Trotter & Gleser negro stature formulae, previous work by the authors having shown that these rather than white formulae give more consistent results with male dynastic material... When consistency has been achieved in this way, predynastic proportions are founded to be such that distal segments of the limbs are even longer in relation to the proximal segments than they are in modern negroes. Such proportions are termed "super-negroid"...
Robins (1983) and Robins & Shute (1983) have shown that more consistent results are obtained from ancient Egyptian male skeletons if Trotter & Gleser formulae for negro are used, rather than those for whites which have always been applied in the past. .. their physical proportions were more like modern negroes than those of modern whites, with limbs that were relatively long compared with the trunk, and distal segments that were long compared with the proximal segments. If ancient Egyptian males had what may be termed negroid proportions, it seems reasonable that females did likewise." (Robins G, Shute CCD. 1986. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions. Hum Evol 1:313-324. Ruff CB. 1994.)
Modern anthropology shows that the ancient Egyptians are well within the range of tropical Africa, contradicting older research in the 1990s that sought to deny any relationship. The anthropologist below, Nancy Lovell was recommended by Mary lefkowitz in Black Athena Revisted.
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
The ancient Badarians were quite representative of ancient Egyptians as a whole and showed clear links with tropical Africans to the south. They have been sometimes excluded in studies of the ancient Egyptian population, which shows continuity in its history, not mass influxes of foreigners until the late periods.
Quotes: "As a result of their facial prognathism, the Badarian sample has been described as forming a morphological cluster with Nubian, Tigrean, and other southern (or "Negroid") groups (Morant, 1935, 1937; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Nutter, 1958, Strouhal, 1971; Angel, 1972; Keita, 1990). Cranial nonmetric trait studies have found this group to be similar to other Egyptians, including much later material (Berry and Berry, 1967, 1972), but also to be significantly different from LPD material (Berry et al., 1967). Similarly, the study of dental nonmetric traits has suggested that the Badarian population is at the centroid of Egyptian dental samples (Irish, 2006), thereby suggesting similarity and hence continuity across Egyptian time periods. From the central location of the Badarian samples in Figure 2, the current study finds the Badarian to be relatively morphologically close to the centroid of all the Egyptian samples. The Badarian have been shown to exhibit greatest morphological similarity with the temporally successive EPD (Table 5). Finally, the biological distinctiveness of the Badarian from other Egyptian samples has also been demonstrated (Tables 6 and 7).
These results suggest that the EDyn do form a distinct morphological pattern. Their overlap with other Egyptian samples (in PC space, Fig. 2) suggests that although their morphology is distinctive, the pattern does overlap with the other time periods. These results therefore do not support the Petrie concept of a \Dynastic race" (Petrie, 1939; Derry, 1956). Instead, the results suggest that the Egyptian state was not the product of mass movement of populations into the Egyptian Nile region, but rather that it was the result of primarily indigenous development combined with prolonged small-scale migration, potentially from trade, military, or other contacts.
This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK. A possible explanation is that the Egyptian state formed through increasing control of trade and raw materials, or due to military actions, potentially associated with the use of the Nile Valley as a corridor for prolonged small scale movements through the desert environment. (Sonia R. Zakrzewski. (2007). Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501-509)
Ancient Egyptians most related to other Africans and are part of a Nilotic continuity rather than something Mediterranean or Middle Eastern
"Certainly there was some foreign admixture [in Egypt], but basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times... [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990.. et al.,)... The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East African Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions.." (Frank Yurco, "An Egyptological Review," 1996 -in Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers, Black Athena Revisited, 1996, The University of North Carolina Press, p. 62-100)
African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. Attempts to deny this are rooted in racism and error. African people, particularly SUB-SAHARAN Africans, vary the most in how they look, more so than any other population in the world.
"Estimates of genetic diversity in major geographic regions are frequently made by pooling all individuals into regional aggregates. This method can potentially bias results if there are differences in population substructure within regions, since increased variation among local populations could inflate regional diversity. A preferred method of estimating regional diversity is to compute the mean diversity within local populations. Both methods are applied to a global sample of craniometric data consisting of 57 measurements taken on 1734 crania from 18 local populations in six geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, East Asia, Australasia, Polynesia, and the Americas. Each region is represented by three local populations.
Both methods for estimating regional diversity show sub-Saharan Africa to have the highest levels of phenotypic variation, consistent with many genetic studies." (Relethford, John "Global Analysis of Regional Differences in Craniometric Diversity and Population Substructure". Human Biology - Volume 73, Number 5, October 2001, pp. 629-636)
# "In addition, craniometric variation also shows agreement with genetic data in showing highest levels of diversity in sub-Saharan Africa than in other geographic regions (Relethford and Harpending, 1994). Further, there is a clear decline in levels of craniometric variation as geographic distance from East Africa increases (Manica et al., 2007; von Cramon-Taubadel and Lycett, 2008; Betti et al., 2009)." -- John H. Relethford* (2010). Population-Specific Deviations of Global Human Craniometric Variation From a Neutral Model. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 2010
"The living peoples of the African continent are diverse in facial characteristics, stature, skin color, hair form, genetics, and other characteristics. No one set of characteristics is more African than another. Variability is also found in "sub-Saharan" Africa, to which the word "Africa" is sometimes erroneously restricted. There is a problem with definitions. Sometimes Africa is defined using cultural factors, like language, that exclude developments that clearly arose in Africa. For example, sometimes even the Horn of Africa (Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea) is excluded because of geography and language and the fact that some of its peoples have narrow noses and faces.
However, the Horn is at the same latitude as Nigeria, and its languages are African. The latitude of 15 degree passes through Timbuktu, surely in "sub-Saharan Africa," as well as Khartoum in Sudan; both are north of the Horn. Another false idea is that supra-Saharan and Saharan Africa were peopled after the emergence of "Europeans" or Near Easterners by populations coming from outside Africa. Hence, the ancient Egyptians in some writings have been de-Africanized. These ideas, which limit the definition of Africa and Africans, are rooted in racism and earlier, erroneous "scientific" approaches." (S. Keita, "The Diversity of Indigenous Africans," in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Clenko, Editor (1996), pp. 104-105. [10])
Modern DNA studies find even though some African peoples look different, they are genetically related through the PN2 transition clade of the Y-chromosone. Haplogroup E links numerous peoples together even though they don't look exactly the same.
"But the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse. African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other, but not with others who are phenotypically similar. The individuals in the morphologically or geographically defined 'races' are not characterized by 'private' distinct lineages restricted to each of them." (S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. "Conceptualizing human variation," Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20 (2004)
"Recall that the Horn-Nile Valley crania show, as a group, the largest overlap with other regions. A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being ''racially'' different, with ''racially'' implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAPþ derived haplogroup E or III) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa (see Semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant African populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.." (S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689, 2004.) keita2004neanalysis.htm
"Africa contains tremendous cultural, linguistic and genetic diversity, and has more than 2,000 distinct ethnic groups and languages.. Studies using mitochondrial (mt)DNA and nuclear DNA markers consistently indicate that Africa is the most genetically diverse region of the world." (Tishkoff SA, Williams SM., Genetic analysis of African populations: human evolution and complex disease. Nature Reviews Genetics. 2002 Aug (8):611-21.)
DNA of some modern Egyptians found a genetic ancestral heritage to East Africa: "The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population." (Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)
Tishkoff et al on Africa having the most genetic diversity:
"Africa contains tremendous cultural, linguistic and genetic diversity, and has more than 2,000 distinct ethnic groups and languages (see online link to Ethnologue). Studies using mitochondrial (mt)DNA and nuclear DNA markers consistently indicate that Africa is the most genetically diverse region of the world(TABLE 1).However,most studies report only a few markers in divergent African populations, which makes it difficult to draw general conclusions about the levels and patterns of genetic diversity in these populations (FIG. 1). Because genetic studies have been biased towards more economically developed African countries that have key research or medical centres, populations from more underdeveloped or politically unstable regions of Africa remain undersampled (FIG. 1). Historically, human population genetic studies have relied on one or two African populations as being representative of African diversity, but recent studies show extensive genetic variation among even geographically close African populations, which indicates that there is not a single 'representative' African population." -- Tishkoff NATURE REVIEWS | GENETICS VOLUME 3 | AUGUST 2002
"Genetic studies that attempt to recover the biological history of the species have generally found that there is a split between their restricted African samples and "the rest of the world." These approaches conceptualize human population history as a series of bifurcations with each node being relatively uniform. The "Africans" usually used are either the short statured Aka or Mbuti, Khoisan speakers, or West African stereotype s, in keeping with a socially, not scientifically constructed concept of African. Studies using individuals as the unit of analysis evince a different pattern. A select subset of Africans called the "group of 49" forms a unit versus the rest of humankind. However the latter individuals ("rest of humankind") also includes non-East African sub-Saharans. Hence there is no "racial" split. As has been stated, the idea that human variation can be described as being structured by subspecies(races) that are treated as lineages is fundamentally false. In actuality, also, although averages are used, the gene studies usually give us histories that are not necessarily the same as population histories." Writing African History Chapter 4, Physical Anthropology and African History, Shomarka Keita University of Rochester Press p.134
Continent wide African DNA linkages "The most extensive pan-African haplotype (16189 16192 16223 16278 16294 16309 16390) is in the L2a1 haplogroup. This sequence is observed in West Africa among the Malinke, Wolof, and others; in North Africa among the Maure, Hausa, Fulbe, and others; in Central Africa among the Bamileke, Fali, and others; in South Africa among the Khoisan family including the Khwe and Bantu speakers; and in East Africa among the Kikuyu. Closely related variants are observed among the Tuareg in North and West Africa and among the East African Dinka and Somali." (-- Bert Ely , Jamie Lee Wilson , Fatimah Jackson and Bruce A Jackson. (2006). African-American mitochondrial DNAs often match mtDNAs found in multiple African ethnic groups. BMC Biology 2006, 4:34)
"It is of interest that the M35 and M2 lineages are united by a mutation - the PN2 transition. This PN2 defined clade originated in East Africa, where various populations have a notable frequency of its underived state. This would suggest that an ancient population in East Africa, or more correctly its males, form the basis of the ancestors of all African upper Paleolithic populations - and their subsequent descendants in the present day." (--Bengston, John D. (ed.), In Hot Pursuit of Language in Prehistory: Essays in the four fields of anthropology. 2008. John Benjamins Publishing: pp. 3-16)
Egyptian Y-chromosome haplotypes show preponderance is with African clusters not Europe or the Near East
Recent DNA studies of the Sudan show genetic unity and linkage between the Sudanic, Horn, Egyptian, Nubian and other Nilotic peoples, confirming earlier skeletal/cranial studies and historical data. (Yurco (1989, 1996), Keita (1993,2004, 2005) Lovell (1999), Zakrewski (2003, 2007) et. al). Of note is that DNA data shows that some peoples linked to one of the oldest Egyptian populations, the original Copts, have a significant frequency of the B-M60 marker, indicating early colonization of Egypt by Nilotics in the state formation period.
QUOTES:
"Haplogroup E-M78, however, is more widely distributed and is thought to have an origin in eastern African. More recently, this haplogroup has been carefully dissected and was found to depict several well-established subclades with defined geographical clustering (Cruciani et al., 2006, 2007). Although this haplogroup is common to most Sudanese populations, it has exceptionally high frequency among populations like those of western Sudan (particularly Darfur) and the Beja in eastern Sudan... Although the PC plot places the Beja and Amhara from Ethiopia in one sub-cluster based on shared frequencies of the haplogroup J1, the distribution of M78 subclades (Table 2) indicates that the Beja are perhaps related as well to the Oromo on the basis of the considerable frequencies of E-V32 among Oromo in comparison to Amhara (Cruciani et al., 2007)...
These findings affirm the historical contact between Ethiopia and eastern Sudan (1998), and the fact that these populations speak languages of the Afroasiatic family tree reinforces the strong correlation between linguistic and genetic diversity (Cavalli-Sforza, 1997)."
"Genetic continuum of the Nubians with their kin in southern Egypt is indicated by comparable frequencies of E-V12 the predominant M78 subclade among southern Egyptians." [Hassan et al. Y-chromosome variation.." Am J. Phy Anthro. v137,3. 316-323
"The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation, something that conforms both to recorded history and to Egyptian mythology." Source: (Hisham Y. Hassan 1, Peter A. Underhill 2, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza 2, Muntaser E. Ibrahim 1. (2008). Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese: Restricted gene flow, concordance with language, geography, and history. Am J Phys Anthropology, 2008. Volume 137 Issue 3, Pages 316 - 323)
Older research notes the physical makeup of the original Copts, now confirmed by recent DNA data above: "In Libya, which is mostly desert and oasis, there is a visible Negroid element in the sedentary populations, and at the same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt, whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological studies have shown that the Negroid element was stronger in predynastic times than at present, reflecting an early movement northward along the banks of the Nile, which were then heavily forested." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. "Populations, Human")
Haplogroup E3A and E3B represent more than 70% of the Y-chromosones on the African continent, with varying proportions found in different parts of the continent. In some African populations for example, E3B exceeds 80%. Migrations out of Africa, are responsible for the spread of E3b to Europe. Non-Africans thus acquired a sub-set f African genes through this migration.
"In Europe, the overall frequency pattern of haplogroup E-M78 does not support the hypothesis of a uniform spread of people from a single parental Near Eastern population... The Y chromosome specific biallelic marker DYS271 defines the most common haplogroup (E3a) currently found in sub-Saharan Africa. A sister clade, E3b (E-M215), is rare in sub-Saharan Africa, but very common in northern and eastern Africa. On the whole, these two clades represent more than 70% of the Y chromosomes of the African continent. A third clade belonging to E3 (E3c or E-M329) has been recently reported to be present only in eastern Africa, at low frequencies.. The new topology of the E3 haplogroup is suggestive of a relatively recent eastern African origin for the majority of the chromosomes presently found in sub-Saharan Africa."
"In conclusion, we detected the signatures of several distinct processes of migration and/or recurrent gene flow associated with the dispersal of haplogroup E3b lineages. Early events involved the dispersal of E-M78d chromosomes from eastern Africa into and out of Africa, as well as the introduction of the E-M34 subclade into Africa from the Near East. Later events involved short-range migrations within Africa (E-M78? and E-V6) and from northern Africa into Europe (E-M81 and E-M78ß), as well as an important range expansion from the Balkans to western and southern-central Europe (E-M78a). This latter expansion was the main contributor to the present distribution of E3b chromosomes in Europe."
(Cruciani, F, et. al. (2004) Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa, Am J Hum Genet. 74(5): 1014-1022.)
Somalis link much more heavily with African populations such as those in Kenya and Ethiopia than Middle Eastern or European ones according to DNA evidence. Eurasian genes only accounted for about 15% of the mix among Somalis, typically associated with recent Arab influence. On such key common DNA markers as E3b1, Europeans only weighed in at 5%, and Middle Easterners at approximately 6%. The overwhelming link of Somalis- over 85% of the total is with Africans. Kenya and Ethiopia are located in "sub-Saharan" Africa.
"The high frequency (77.6%) of haplogroup E3b1 was characteristic of male Somalis. The frequency of E3b1 was significantly lower in Ethiopian Oromos (35.9%), Ethiopian Amharas (22.9%), Egyptians (20.0%), Sudanese (17.5%), Kenyans (15.1%),10 Iraqis (6.3%), Northern Africans (6.1%), Southern Europeans (0.5-5.1%) and sub-Saharan populations." (Sanchez et al.,(2005) High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males, Eu J of Hum Genet (2005) 13, 856-866)[/i]
More on Haplogroup E here: from GENEBASE: http://www.genebase.com/app/item.php?aiId=35 "E1 is the predominant subclade, while E2 is much less frequent. Within E1, E1b1 (defined by SNP P2) is the most abundant and widespread representative, and accounts for most of Haplogroup E worldwide. E1b1 lineages vary in abundance over Africa and three main regions are evident from the distribution peaks of three subclades: E1b1a (SNP M2) in Sub-Saharan Africa, E1b1b1a (SNP M78) in East Africa and E1b1b1b (SNP M81) in Northwest Africa. The difference in geographic location of Haplogroup E subclades also aligns with distinct language groups supporting the idea that there is prevailing father to son transmission of language in Africa. "
------------------------------------------------------------------ Simplistic "race percentage" models are dubious in Africa which has the highest genetic diversity in the world. That diversity proceeded from deeper sub-Saharan Africa, to East and N.E. Africa, then to the rest of the globe. All other populations, including Europeans and "Middle easterners" carry this diversity which was built into Africa to begin with. Africans thus don't need any "race mix" to look different. Their diversity is built-in and supplied the whole globe. Any returnees or "backflow" to Africa looked like Africans. (Brace 2005, Hanihara 1996, Holliday 2003).
" These studies suggest a recent and primary subdivision between African and non-African populations, high levels of divergence among African populations, and a recent shared common ancestry of non-African populations, from a population originating in Africa. The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopian Jews and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow. The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999)." [Tishkoff et al. (2000) Short Tandem-Repeat Polymorphism/Alu Haplotype Variation at the PLAT Locus: Implications for Modern Human Origins. Am J Hum Genet; 67:901-925]
Data on Ethiopian peoples like the Oromo are underreported even though they make up the largest group percentage wise in the Ethiopian population, (50%) and are often pooled with others, hiding and obscuring their overall contribution to the Ethiopian gene pool.
"This difference, not revealed in the study by Passarino et al. (1998), in which the Oromo were underrepresented, might reflect distinct population histories." (--Semino, et al. (2002). Ethiopians and Khoisan Share the Deepest Clades of the Human Y..")
"These data, together with those reported elsewhere (Ritte et al. 1993a, 1993b; Hammer et al. 2000) suggest that the Ethiopian Jews acquired their religion without substantial genetic admixture from Middle Eastern peoples and that they can be considered an ethnic group with essentially a continental African genetic composition." (Cruciani, et. al Am J Hum Genet. 2002 May; 70(5): 1197-1214. "A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-Chromosome Haplotypes)
"An earlier generation of anthropologists tried to explain face form in the Horn of Africa as the result of admixture from hypothetical “wandering Caucasoids,”.. but that explanation founders on the paradox of why that supposedly potent “Caucasoid” people contributed a dominant quantity of genes for nose and face form but none for skin color or limb proportions." --CL Brace, 1993
[Afrocentric critic Mary Leftokwitz says Egypt was peopled by persons from sub-Saharan Africa:
"Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North. See Bruce G. Trigger, "The Rise of Civilization in Egypt," Cambridge History of Africa (Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1982), vol I, pp 489-90; S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54. (Mary Lefkotitz (1997). Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth as History. Basic Books. pg 242) [/QB][/QUOTE]
In Black Athena Revisited, Lefkowitz finds similarity between Egyptians and Sudanics and recommends the work of conservative anthropologist Nancy Lovell for more research on the subject.
Quote: "not surprisingly, the Egyptian skulls were not very distance from the Jebel Moya [a Neolithic site in the southern Sudan] skulls, but were much more distance from all others, including those from West Africa. Such a study suggests a closer genetic affinity between peoples in Egypt and the northern Sudan, which were close geographically and are known to have had considerable cultural contact throughout prehistory and pharaonic history... Clearly more analyses of the physical remains of ancient Egyptians need to be done using current techniques, such as those of Nancy Lovell at the University of Alberta is using in her work.."
Lefkotitz cites Keita 1993 in Not Out of Africa. Here is Keita on the Jebel Moya studies?
"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Jebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have 'donated' people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese." [/img] S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54
Hereis the work of the anthropologist so strongly recommended by Lefkowitz, Nancy Lovell:
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
and
"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332)
Obviously, this shows that the Egyptians were completely white, and how foolish the Afrocentrists are to reject this notion. After all Afrocentric critic Mary Lefkowitz recommends Lovell's research..
The same Nancy Lovell recommended by Lefkowitz studied dental traits among some high status persons of the key Egyptian Naqada group and found that they resembled the peoples of Nubia.
T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of cranial and dental morphological traits and evidence for endogamy in ancient Egypt" American journal of physical anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt.
Lefkowitz warns against Eurocentric "racial" analysis as to the Egyptians and Nubians.
Quote: "The Nubian tribute-bearers are painted in two skin tones, black and dark brown. These tones do not necessarily represent actual skin tones in real life but may serve to distinguish each tribute-bearer from the next in a row in which the figures overlap. Alternatively, the brown-skinned people may be of Nubian origin, and the black-skinned ones may be farther south 9Trigger 1978, 33). The shading of skin tones in Egyptian tomb paintings, which varies considerably, may not be a certain criterion for distinguishing race. Specific symbols of ethnic identity can also vary. Identifying race in Egyptian representational art, again, is difficult to do- probably because race (as opposed to ethnic affiliation, that is, Egyptians versus all non-Egyptians) was not a criterion for differentiation used by the ancient Egyptians...
Northern Egypt shows more physical variation than the south, but not necessarily as part of any significant 'race' mix, but local, built-in variation. They were closer to southerners than any other peoples. In comparisons with "Middle Eastern" populations of the same ancient period, the Egyptians link more closely with other Africans than the Middle Easterners. Africans vary in how they look because they have the highest built-in molecular diversity to begin with.
QUOTE(s): "..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." (Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)
"Individuals from different geographical regions frequently plotted near each other, revealing aspects of variation at the level of individuals that is obscured by concentrating on the most distinctive facial traits once used to construct ''types.''The high level of African interindividual variation in craniometric pattern is reminiscent of the great level of molecular diversity found in Africa." (S.O.Y Keita. Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689, 2004.)
Quote on northern Egypt analysis- the Qarunian (Faiyum) remains (c. 7000 BC) "The body was that of a forty-year old woman with a height of about 1.6 meters, who was of a more modern racial type than the classic 'Mechtoid' of the Fakhurian culture (see pp. 65-6), being generally more gracile, having large teeth and thick jaws bearing some resemblance to the modern 'negroid' type." (Beatrix Midant-Reynes, Ian Shaw (2000). The Prehistory of Egypt. Wiley-Blackwell. pg. 82)
Modern studies show diversity in how people look is heavily based on distance from sub-Saharan Africa, not merely climate. In genetically diverse Africa, broad-nosed people live on the cool or cold mountain slopes of East Africa or the hot, dry Sahara, and narrow-nosed peoples like many Fulani like in the wet tropics of West Africa. Yellowish-skinned San tribes live in the hot zones of Southern Africa.
"The relative importance of ancient demography and climate in determining worldwide patterns of human within-population phenotypic diversity is still open to debate. Several morphometric traits have been argued to be under selection by climatic factors, but it is unclear whether climate affects the global decline in morphological diversity with increasing geographical distance from sub-Saharan Africa. Using a large database of male and female skull measurements, we apply an explicit framework to quantify the relative role of climate and distance from Africa. We show that distance from sub-Saharan Africa is the sole determinant of human within-population phenotypic diversity, while climate plays no role. By selecting the most informative set of traits, it was possible to explain over half of the worldwide variation in phenotypic diversity. These results mirror those previously obtained for genetic markers and show that 'bones and molecules' are in perfect agreement for humans." (Distance from Africa, not climate, explains within-population phenotypic diversity in humans. (2008) by: Lia Betti, François Balloux, William Amos, Tsunehiko Hanihara, Andrea Manica, Proceedings B: Biological Sciences, 2008/12/02)
Analysis of skeletal and cranial remains reveals that the ancient Egyptians of the early Dynastic and pre-Dynastic phases, link closer to nearby Saharan, Sudanic and East African populations than Mediterranean and Middle Eastern peoples. Greeks, Romans, Hyskos, Arabs and others were to appear later in Egyptian history. Craniometric studies generally place ancient Upper Egyptian populations closer to the range of tropical Africans in the Nile Valley and East Africa than to Mediterraneans, or Middle Easterners.
QUOTE(s): S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54
"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Kebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have 'donated' people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese." (Keita 1993)
"When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian series are more similar overall to other African series than to European or Near Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian) series." (Keita 1993)
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )
"Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans." (S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 20-33)
"There is no archaeological, linguistic, or historical data which indicate a European or Asiatic invasion of, or migration to, the Nile Valley during First Dynasty times. Previous concepts about the origin of the First Dynasty Egyptians as being somehow external to the Nile Valley or less native are not supported by archaeology... In summary, the Abydos First Dynasty royal tomb contents reveal a notable craniometric heterogeneity. Southerners predominate. (Kieta, S. (1992) Further Studies of Crania From Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 87:245-254)"
"The predominant craniometric pattern in the Abydos royal tombs is 'southern' (tropical African variant), and this is consistent with what would be expected based on the literature and other results (Keita, 1990). This pattern is seen in both group and unknown analyses... Archaeology and history seem to provide the most parsimonious explanation for the variation in the royal tombs at Abydos.. Tomb design suggests the presence of northerners in the south in late Nakada times (Hoffman, 1988) when the unification probably took place. Delta names are attached to some of the tombs at Abydos (Gardiner, 1961; Yurco, 1990, personal communication), thus perhaps supporting Petrie's (1939) and Gardiner's contention that north-south marriages were undertaken to legitimize the hegemony of the south. The courtiers of northern elites would have accompanied them.
Given all of the above, it is probably not possible to view the Abydos royal tomb sample as representative of the general southern Upper Egyptian population of the time. Southern elites and/or their descendants eventually came to be buried in the north (Hoffman, 1988). Hence early Second Dynasty kings and Djoser (Dynasty 111) (Hayes, 1953) and his descendants are not buried in Abydos. Petrie (1939) states that the Third Dynasty, buried in the north, was of Sudanese origin, but southern Egypt is equally likely. This perhaps explains Harris and Weeks' (1973) suggested findings of southern morphologies in some Old Kingdom Giza remains, also verified in portraiture (Drake, 1987). Further study would be required to ascertain trends in the general population of both regions. The strong Sudanese affinity noted in the unknown analyses may reflect the Nubian interactions with upper Egypt in predynastic times prior to Egyptian unification (Williams, 1980,1986)..." (S. Keita (1992) Further Studies of Crania From Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 87:245-254)
"When the Elephantine results were added to a broader pooling of the physical characteristics drawn from a wide geographic region which includes Africa, the Mediterranean and the Near East quite strong affinities emerge between Elephantine and populations from Nubia, supporting a strong south-north cline. (Barry Kemp. (2006) Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilization. p. 54)
Gene flow into the Nubian area during the Neolithic was not from reputed "wandering Caucasoids" but from tropical, Sub-Saharan types.
"Prior to the Neolithic, populations of the Nile Valley in Nubia are very robust, and, because of a gap in the fossil record, it is difficult to connect them to later populations. Some have postulated a local evolution, due to diet change, while others postulated migrations, especially from the Sahara area. But between 5000 and 1000 BC, many cemeteries have supplied a large amount of skeletons, and the anatomical characters of Nubian populations are easier to follow-up. Twenty-seven archaeological samples (4 at 5000 BC, 5 at 4000 BC, 10 at 3000 BC, 3 at 2000 BC, 5 at 1000 BC), and 10 craniofacial measurements, have been considered. While cerebral skull is fairly stable, facial skull displays several regular modifications, and specially a reduction of facial and nasal heights, a broadening of the nose, and an increase of prognathism, while bizygomatic breadth is unchanged. These features illustrate a trend towards a growing resemblance with populations of Sub-Saharan Africa living in wet environments. However, paleoclimatological studies show that Nubia experienced an increasing aridification during that period. It is then unlikely that such a morphological change could be related to any local adaptive evolution to environment. Random drift is also unlikely, because the anatomical trend is relatively uniform during these millennia. It then seems more plausible that these changes correspond to the increasing presence of Southern populations migrating northward." -- Froment, A. (2002) Morphological micro-evolution of Nubian Populations from, A-Group to Christian Epochs: gene flow, not local adaptation. Am J Phys Anthropol [Suppl] 34:72.
Afrocentric critic Froment also notes: "Black populations of the Horn of Africa (Tigré and Somalia) fit well into Egyptian variations." (Froment, Alain, Origines du peuplement de l’Égypte ancienne: l’apport de l’anthropobiologie, Archéo-Nil 2 (Octobre 1992), 79-98)
Afrocentric critic C. Loring Brace's 2005 study groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations. Brace's study shows that the closest European linking with Africans in Egypt or Nubia are Middle Stone Age Portugese and Neolithics, OLDER populations more closely resembling AFRICANS than modern Europeans. Early Neolithic populations, like the Nautifians, in what is now Israel, show sub-Saharan 'negroid' affinities. (Brace, et al. The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form, Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2006 January 3; 103(1): p. 242-247.)
"The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo, Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample, both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians, and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel. When those samples are separated and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1, there clearly is a tie between them that is diluted the farther one gets from sub-Saharan Africa" (Brace, 2005)
"The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants, although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa... Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig. 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This placement suggests that there may have been a Sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians (the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic), .. When canonical variates are plotted, neither sample ties in with Cro-Magnon as was once suggested. The data treated here support the idea that the Neolithic moved out of the Near East into the circum-Mediterranean areas and Europe by a process of demic diffusion but that subsequently the in situ residents of those areas, derived from the Late Pleistocene inhabitants, absorbed both the agricultural life way and the people who had brought it." (Brace, 2005)
Both skeletal/cranial and DNA studies by other authors confirm that some Neolithics did not derive from the Near East. They most likely resembled African populations. Hence comparisons using older European Neolithics versus Africans are comparisons with older prehistoric Europeans who looked more like Africans, than modern 'white' Europeans, as shown by Brace (2005), and Hanihara (1996) also, who states "Early West Asians looked like Africans."
"The absence of mtDNA haplogroup J in the ancient Portuguese Neolithic sample suggests that this population was not derived directly from Near Eastern farmers. The Mesolithic and Neolithic groups show genetic discontinuity implying colonisation at the Neolithic transition in Portugal." (CHANDLER, H.; SYKES, B.; ZILHÃO, J. (2005) - Using ancient DNA to examine genetic continuity at the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition in Portugal, in ARIAS, P.; ONTAÑÓN, R.; GARCÍA-MONCÓ, C. (eds.) - «Actas del III Congreso del Neolítico en la Península Ibérica», Santander, Monografías del Instituto Internacional de Investigaciones Prehistóricas de Cantabria 1, p. 781-786.)
"Early Europeans still resembled modern tropical peoples - some resemble modern Australian and Africans, more than modern Europeans.. Nor does the picture get any clearer when we move on to the Cro-Magnons, the presumed ancestors of modern Europeans. Some were more like present-day Australians or Africans, judged by objective anatomical observations." (Christopher Stringer, Robin McKie (1998). African Exodus. Macmillan, p. 162)
Early Europeans, as recently as 6,000-9000 years ago, looked somewhat like Africans in terms of retained 'tropical' characteristics. Cold adaptation was to bring about several physical changes over time from the initial Out of Africa migrations to Europe. Retained traces of 'tropical' characteristics, indicate a "large African role in the origins of anatomically modern Europeans." (Holliday and Churchill 2003).
"Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess "tropical" body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. .. results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions." (Holliday, Trenton (1997) Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins. Journal of Human Evolution, Volume 32, Issue 5, 1997, Pages 423-447)
".. while the Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans have significantly higher (i.e., tropically-adapted) brachial and crural indices than do recent Europeans, they also have shorter (i.e., cold-adapted) limbs. The somewhat paradoxical retention of "tropical" indices in the context of more "cold-adapted" limb length is best explained as evidence for Replacement in the European Late Pleistocene, followed by gradual cold adaptation in glacial Europe." (Holliday, Trenton (1999) Brachial and crural indices of European Late Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic humans. Journal of Human Evolution. Volume 36, Issue 5, May 1999, Pages 549-566)
"Stature, body mass, and body proportions are evaluated for the Cheddar Man (Gough's Cave 1) skeleton. Like many of his Mesolithic contemporaries, Gough's Cave 1 evinces relatively short estimated stature (ca. 166.2 cm [5' 5']) and low body mass (ca. 66 kg [146 lbs]). In body shape, he is similar to recent Europeans for most proportional indices. He differs, however, from most recent Europeans in his high crural index and tibial length/trunk height indices. Thus, while Gough's Cave 1 is characterized by a total morphological pattern considered 'cold-adapted', these latter two traits may be interpreted as evidence of a large African role in the origins of anatomically modern Europeans." (TRENTON W. HOLLIDAY a1 and STEVEN E. CHURCHILL. (2003). Gough's Cave 1 (Somerset, England): an assessment of body size and shape, Bulletin of the Natural History Museum: Geology, 58:37-44 Cambridge University Press)
More data showing early Europeans were tropically adapted types like Africans "Body proportions are under strong climatic selection and evince remarkable stability within regional lineages. As such, they offer a viable and robust alternative to cranio-facial data in assessing hypothesised continuity and replacement with the transition to agro-pastoralism in central Europe. Humero-clavicular, brachial and crural indices in a large sample (n=75) of Linienbandkeramik (LBK), Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age specimens from the middle Elbe-Saale-Werra valley (MESV) were compared with Eurasian and African terminal Pleistocene, European Mesolithic and geographically disparate recent human specimens. Mesolithic Europeans display considerable variation in humero-clavicular and brachial indices yet none approach the extreme "hyper-polar" morphology of LBK humans from the MESV. In contrast, Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age peoples display elongated brachial and crural indices reminiscent of terminal Pleistocene and "tropically adapted" recent humans. These marked morphological changes likely reflect exogenous immigration during the terminal Fourth millennium cal BC. Population expansion and diffusion is a function of increased mobility and settlement dispersal concomitant with significant technological and subsistence changes in later Neolithic societies during the late fourth millennium cal BCE." -- Gallagher et al. "Population continuity, demic diffusion and Neolithic origins in central-southern Germany: the evidence from body proportions." Homo. 2009;60(2):95-126. Epub 2009 Mar 4.
Early West Asians looked like Africans. Thus any ancient returnees or "backflow" from West Asia back to Africa is by people who look like Africans to begin with. Brace 2005 shows this as to Europeans. Hanihara 1996, demonstrates this below as to West Asians (i.e. 'Middle easterners'). Also see above.
quote: "Distance analysis and factor analysis, based on Q-mode correlation coefficients, were applied to 23 craniofacial measurements in 1,802 recent and prehistoric crania from major geographical areas of the Old World. The major findings are as follows: 1) Australians show closer similarities to African populations than to Melanesians. 2) Recent Europeans align with East Asians, and early West Asians resemble Africans. 3) The Asian population complex with regional difference between northern and southern members is manifest. 4) Clinal variations of craniofacial features can be detected in the Afro-European region on the one hand, and Australasian and East Asian region on the other hand. 5) The craniofacial variations of major geographical groups are not necessarily consistent with their geographical distribution pattern. This may be a sign that the evolutionary divergence in craniofacial shape among recent populations of different geographical areas is of a highly limited degree. Taking all of these into account, a single origin for anatomically modern humans is the most parsimonious interpretation of the craniofacial variations presented in this study." (Hanihara T. Comparison of craniofacial features of major human groups. Am J Phys Anthropol. 1996 Mar;99(3):389-412.)
Older studies often show misclassification or exclusion of Nile Valley remains deemed 'negroid'. Although clearly of the "African" type, such remains were frequently relabeled "Mediterranean."
"Analyses of Egyptian crania are numerous. Vercoutter (1978) notes that ancient Egyptian crania have frequently all been lumped (implicitly or explicitly) as Mediterranean, although Negroid remains are recorded in substantial numbers by many workers... "Nutter (1958), using the Penrose statistic, demonstrated that Nagada I and Badari crania, both regarded as Negroid, were almost identical and that these were most similar to the Negroid Nubian series from Kerma studied by Collett (1933). [Collett, not accepting variability, excluded "clear negro" crania found in the Kerma series from her analysis, as did Morant (1925), implying that they were foreign..." (S. Keita (1990) Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 83:35-48)
Different features among Africans, particularly EAST AFRICANS, like narrow noses are not due to different "race" mixes but are part of the built-in physical diversity and variation of African peoples. Narrow noses appear in the oldest African populations for example, in Kenya's Gamble Cave complex. East Africans like Somalians or Kenyans do not need any outside race "mix" or migration to make them look the way they do.
QUOTE(s): ".. all their features can be found in several living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in a number of body proportions.. There is every reason to believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'. Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be closely related to the populations of Europe and western Asia.. In skin colour, the Tutsi are darker than the Hutu, in the reverse direction to that leading to the caucasoids. Lip thickness provides a similar case: on an average the lips of the Tutsi are thicker than those of the Hutu." [Jean Hiernaux, The People of Africa (1975), pgs 42-43, 62-63)
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range: only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....." - Jean Hiernaux, "The People of Africa" 1975 p.53, 54
"Prehistoric human crania from Bromhead's Site, Willey's Kopje, Makalia Burial Site, Nakuru, and other localities in the Eastern Rift Valley of Kenya are reassessed using measurements and a multivariate statistical approach. Materials available for comparison include series of Bushman and Hottentot crania. South and East African Negroes, and Egyptians. Up to 34 cranial measurements taken on these series are utilized to construct three multiple discriminant frameworks, each of which can assign modern individuals to a correct group with considerable accuracy. When the prehistoric crania are classified with the help of these discriminants, results indicate that several of the skulls are best grouped with modern Negroes. This is especially clear in the case of individuals from Bromhead's Site, Willey's Kopje, and Nakuru, and the evidence hardly suggests post-Pleistocene domination of the Rift and surrounding territory by "Mediterranean" Caucasoids, as has been claimed. Recent linguistic and archaeological findings are also reviewed, and these seem to support application of the term Nilotic Negro to the early Rift populations." (Rightmire GP. New studies of post-Pleistocene human skeletal remains from the Rift Valley, Kenya. Am J Phys Anthropol. 1975 May;42(3):351-69. )
"....inhabitants of East Africa right on the equator have appreciably longer, narrower, and higher noses than people in the Congo at the same latitude. A former generation of anthropologists used to explain this paradox by invoking an invasion by an itinerant "white" population from the Mediterranean area, although this solution raised more problems than it solved since the East Africans in question include some of the blackest people in the world with characteristically wooly hair and a body build unique among the world's populations for its extreme linearity and height.... The relatively long noses of East Africa become explicable then when one realizes that much of the area is extremely dry for parts of the year." (C. Loring Brace, "Nonracial Approach Towards Human Diversity," cited in The Concept of Race, Edited by Ashley Montagu, The Free Press, 1980, pp. 135-136, 138)
"The .... excavations at Gogoshiis Qabe (Somalia) uncovered eleven virtually complete and articulated primary burials...Closest morphological affinities are with early Holocene skeletons from Lake Turkana, Kenya...and Lake Besaka, Ethiopia.." (S. Brandt, (1986) The Upper Pleistocene and early Holocene prehistory of the Horn of Africa. Journal African Archaeological Review. Volume 4, Number 1, Pages 41-82 )
"The role of tall, linearly built populations in eastern Africa's prehistory has always been debated. Traditionally, they are viewed as late migrants into the area. But as there is better palaeoanthropological and linguistic documentation for the earlier presence of these populations than for any other group in eastern Africa, it is far more likely that they are indigenous eastern Africans. ... prehistoric linear populations show resemblances to both Upper Pleistocene eastern African fossils and present-day, non-Bantu-speaking groups in eastern Africa, with minor differences stemming from changes in overall robusticity of the dentition and skeleton. This suggests a longstanding tradition of linear populations in eastern Africa, contributing to the indigenous development of cultural and biological diversity from the Pleistocene up to the present." (L . A . SCHEPARTZ, "Who were the later Pleistocene eastern Africans?" The African Archaeological Review, 6 (1988), pp. 57- 72)
Recent study shows ancient Egyptians physically more like tropically adapted Black Americans than White Americans, confirming older studies that show today's Egyptians in general are closer to US blacks than Northern Europeans, and Southern Europeans as well.
QUOTE(s): "We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites... Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical... Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks. ..brachial indices are definitely more 'African'... There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains." ("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf, (Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-55
Africa is the most genetically diverse region in the world with the original man being from East Africa according to conservative scholars:
"Africa contains tremendous cultural, linguistic and genetic diversity, and has more than 2,000 distinct ethnic groups and languages.. Studies using mitochondrial (mt)DNA and nuclear DNA markers consistently indicate that Africa is the most genetically diverse region of the world." (Tishkoff SA, Williams SM., Genetic analysis of African populations: human evolution and complex disease. Nature Reviews Genetics. 2002 Aug (8):611-21.)
" In other words, all non-Africans carry M168. Of course, Africans carrying the M168 mutation today are the descendants of the African subpopulation from which the migrants originated.... Thus, the Australian/Eurasian Adam (the ancestor of all non-Africans) was an East African Man." (Linda Stone, Paul F. Lurquin, L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Genes, Culture, and Human Evolution: A Synthesis, Wiley-Blackwell: 2006, pg 108)
The Natufians, early inhabitants of the Sinai - Israel- Palestine area, and reputed pioneers of several Neolithic agricultural and technological developments, appear to have had "Negroid" affinities. Important Natufian sites include Mt. Carmel, Jericho and several others.
"Against this background of disease, movement and pedomorphic reduction of body size one can identify Negroid (Ethiopic or Bushmanoid?) traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters (McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the unknown predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians....". (Biological Relations of Egyptians and Eastern Mediterranean Populations during pre-Dynastic and Dynastic Times. J. Lawrence Angel. Journal of Human Evolutiom. 1972:1, 1, Pg 307)
"The Mushabians moved into Sinai from the Nile Delta, bringing North African lithic chipping tecniques." ("Pleistocene connections between Africa and Southwest Asia: an archaeological perspective. O. Bar-Yosef. African Archaeological Review. 5 (1987) Pg 29)
"It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa... Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used... This placement suggests that there may have been a Sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians (the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic.." (C.L Brace, et. al. 2005. The Questionable contribution of the Neolithic...)
Early inhabitants of the general Natufian Israel area show limb proportions suited to tropical peoples- similar to sub-Saharan's homeland
"However, the real revelation came when Erik [Trinkhaus] inserted his data on the Cro-Magnons of Europe and the Skhul-Qafzeh skeletons from Israel into the equations. In this case, he got a figure of 85 percent for the shinbone-thighbone ratio. Not only were they unlike the Neanderthals, but these people actually fell at the other extreme in their readings on the limb thermometer. The predicted average temperature of origin for folk with an 85% shin-thigh fraction, indicating much longer extremities relative to trunk length - was about 20 degrees higher than the Neanderthals', suggesting a subtropical- if not tropical- homeland!" (African Exodus By Christopher Stringer, Robin McKie, McMillan: pg 79-83)
The 1993 'Clines and Clusters' study by C.L. Brace, et. al. has been used to minmize or downplay the realtionship between Egypt and its African neighbors. For example it:
--Created an "African" or "sub-Saharan" group, but excluded the Maghreb (including parts of the Sahara and Sahel), the Sudan and the Horn area (Ethiopia and Somalia) even though these latter two are BELOW the Sahara, and thus "sub-Saharan".
--Excluded the Badari, and Naqada I and II, key Egyptian groups, thus obscuring the Sudanic/Saharan character of numerous early samples, noted in several earlier analyses. Ignored the formative range of the Saharans on Egypt, from the megaliths and cattle cults of the Nabta Playa to early mummification practices was ignored.
--Excluded the Nubian population of the Badari and early Naqada period, including the rich remains of the well documented Qustul culture, near the present Sudanese-Egyptian border, again obscuring the close relationship between the two peoples.
--Created a vague "Bronze Age" grouping of Nubians, and a "modern" group of medieval samples, an era long after the dynasties and when Nubia had experienced more gene flow of that and the later Arab incursions, beginning in the 700s. Sampling thus ignored the early Badari/Naqada Nubians, jumped the 25th Dynasty era, and shifted to the medieval era in the age range of the Arab conquests. Used Somalian samples that were modern, and thus within the range of recent gene flow (such as the Arab era), particularly on the coast.
--The result was a "comparison" finding that the ancient Egyptians had no relationship "at all" to other "sub-Saharan" peoples and were relatively distant from the Nubians and Somalians. peoples. This finding has been undermined by the subsequent research of several scholars, including limb proportion studies.
QUOTE(s):
"However, Brace et al. (1993) find that a series of upper Egyptian/Nubian epipalaeolithic crania affiliate by cluster analysis with groups they designate "sub-Saharan African" or just simply "African" (from which they incorrectly exclude the Maghreb, Sudan, and the Horn of Africa), whereas post-Badarian southern predynastic and a late dynastic northern series (called "E" or Gizeh) cluster together, and secondarily with Europeans. In the primary cluster with the Egyptian groups are also remains representing populations from the ancient Sudan and recent Somalia. Brace et al. (1993) seemingly interpret these results as indicating a population relationship from Scandinavia to the Horn of Africa, although the mechanism for this is not clearly stated; they also state that the Egyptians had no relationship with sub-Saharan Africans, a group that they nearly treat (incorrectly) as monolithic, although sometimes seemingly including Somalia, which directly undermines aspects of their claims. Sub-Saharan Africa does not define/delimit authentic Africanity." (S.O.Y. Keita. "Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data". Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
Brace carefully excluded the Badari- a key native pre-dynastic group that led into the dynasties, and suggested possible European immigration to ancient Egypt. Keita put this to the test and found that the excluded group matched up more closely with Africans than Europeans.
"An examination of the distance hierarchies reveals the Badarian series to be more similar to the Teita in both analyses and always more similar to all of the African series than to the Norse and Berg groups (see Tables 3A & 3B and Figure 2). Essentially equal similarity is found with the Zalavar and Dogon series in the 11-variable analysis and with these and the Bushman in the one using 15 variables. The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithm is employed (see Figures 3 and 4).. In none of them did the Badarian sample affiliate with the European series."(S.O.Y. Keita. Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data. Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
More on the biased and skewed 'true negro' model
"Another example of the use of a socially constructed typological paradigm is in studies of the Nile Valley populations in which the concept of a biological African is restricted to those with a particular craniometric pattern (called in the past the 'True Negro' though no 'True White' was ever defined). Early Nubians, Egyptians, and even Somalians are viewed essentially as non-Africans, when in fact numerous lines of evidence and an evolutionary model make them a part of African biocultural/biogeographical history. The diversity of 'authentic' Africans is a reality. This diversity prevents biogeographical/biohistorical Africans from clustering into a single unit, no matter the kind of data." (The Persistence of Racial Thinking and the Myth of Racial Divergence, S. O. Y. Keita, Rick A. Kittles, American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 99, No. 3 (Sep., 1997), pp. 534-544)
"..presents all tropical Africans with narrower noses and faces as being related to or descended from external, ultimately non-African peoples. However, narrow-faced, narrow-nosed populations have long been resident in Saharo-tropical Africa... and their origin need not be sought elsewhere. These traits are also indigenous. The variability in tropical Africa is expectedly naturally high. Given their longstanding presence, narrow noses and faces cannot be deemed `non-African."(S.O.Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993), page 134 )
"Another example of the use of a socially constructed typological paradigm is in studies of the Nile Valley populations in which the concept of a biological African is restricted to those with a particular craniometric pattern (called in the past the 'True African' though no 'True White' was ever defined). Early Nubians, Egyptians, and even Somalians are viewed essentially as non-Africans, when in fact numerous lines of evidence and an evolutionary model make them a part of African biocultural/biogeographical history. The diversity of 'authentic' Africans is a reality. This diversity prevents biogeographical/biohistorical Africans from clustering into a single unit, no matter the kind of data." ---Keita and Kittles. "The Persistence of Racial Thinking and the Myth of Racial Divergence." American Anthropologist 99, no. 3 (September 1997): 534-544
Hair and the 'true negro' "Strouhal (1971) microscopically examined some hair which had been preserved on a Badarian skull. The analysis was interpreted as suggesting a stereotypical tropical African-European hybrid (mulatto). However, this hair is grossly no different from that of Fulani, some Kanuri, or Somali and does not require a gene flow explanation any more than curly hair in Greece necessarily does. Extremely "woolly" hair is not the only kind native to tropical Africa." --(S. O. Y. Keita. (1993). "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54)
Sampling bias and the true negro. In some Nile Valley research sampling bias persists such as drawing samples from the far north of Egypt, boscuring the region's genetic complexity. The stereotypical "true negro" type is still used to artifically separate related peoples and obscure a fuller, more accurate picture of African genetic diversity. Sampling bias appears both in DNA studies (noted by Keita) and in cranial studies (noted by Egyptologist Barry Kemp).
QUOTE(s):
Keita on DNA studies drawing samples from the far north, an area with more foreign settlement and gene flow
"However, in some of the studies, only individuals from northern Egypt are sampled, and this could theoretically give a false impression of Egyptian variability (contrast Lucotte and Mercier 2003a with Manni et al. 2002), because this region has received more foreign settlers (and is nearer the Near East). Possible sample bias should be integrated into the discussion of results." (S.O.Y. Keita, A.J. Boyce, "Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation1," History in Africa 32 (2005) 221-246 )
Egyptologist Barry Kemp on the worldwide CRANID database that used northern samples near the Mediterranean as "representative" of the ancient Egyptians, and classifying them in a "European" direction, while excluding key historic sites further south..
"If, on the other hand, CRANID had used one of the Elephantine populations of the same period, the geographic association would be much more with the African groups to the south. It is dangerous to take one set of skeletons and use them to characterize the population of the whole of Egypt." (Barry Kemp, Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation, Routledge: 2005, p. 55)
One of the oldest remains from Upper Egypt, shows strong sub-Saharan affinities, and early northern Egypt also shows sub-Saharan affinities through cultural traits- the 'Nubian complex' of technology and production.
"The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures.. The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible. Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations." (PINHASI Ron, SEMAL Patrick (2000). The position of the Nazlet Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations. Journal of human evolution. 2000, vol. 39, no3, pp. 269-288 )
"..Middle Paleolithic and the transition to the Upper Paleolithic in the Lower Nile Valley are described... the Middle Paleolithic or, more appropriately, Middle Stone Age of this region starts with the arrival of new populations from sub-Saharan Africa, as evidenced by the nature of the Early to Middle Stone Age transition in stratified sites. Throughout the late Middle Pleistocene technological change occurs leading to the establishment of the Nubian Complex by the onset of the Upper Pleistocene." (Van Peer, Philip. Did middle stone age moderns of sub-Saharan African descent trigger an upper paleolithic revolution in the lower nile valley? Anthropologie. vol. 42, no3, pp. 215-225)
Dental studies provide evidence that the ancient Egyptian population maintained a high degree of continuity into the early, mid and late Dynastic periods. A key ancient group, the Badari, found to link to tropical African metrics, was excluded by such studies as Brace (1993) but dental research shows they link well with later pre and Dynastic populations. J. Irish's 2006 dental study examined the ancient Badarian people excluded by Brace and found that they were a "good representative of what the common ancestor to all later predynastic and dynastic Egyptian peoples would be like." His dental results show that:
QUOTE:
"Despite the difference, Gebel Ramlah [the Western Desert- Saharan region] is closest to predynastic and early dynastic samples from Abydos, Hierakonpolis, and Badari.."
the Badarians were a "good representative of what the common ancestor to all later predynastic and dynastic Egyptian peoples would be like"
"A comparison of Badari to the Naqada and Hierakonpolis samples .. contradicts the idea of a foreign origin for the Naqada (Petrie, 1939; Baumgartel, 1970)"
Evidence in favor of continuity is also demonstrated by comparison of individual samples. "Naqada and especially Hierakonpolis share close affinities with First-Second Dynasty Abydos.. These findings do not support the concept of a foreign dynastic ''race''"
"Thus, despite increasing foreign influence after the Second Intermediate Period, not only did Egyptian culture remain intact (Lloyd, 2000a), but the people themselves, as represented by the dental samples, appear biologically constant as well."
(Joel D. Irish (2006). Who Were the Ancient Egyptians? Dental Affinities Among Neolithic Through Postdynastic Peoples. Am J Phys Anthropol. 2006 Apr;129(4):529-43.)
Africans have the highest dental diversity "Previous research by the first author revealed that, relative to other modern peoples, sub-Saharan Africans exhibit the highest frequencies of ancestral (or plesiomorphic) dental traits... The fact that sub-Saharan Africans express these apparently plesiomorphic characters, along with additional information on their affinity to other modern populations, evident intra-population heterogeneity, and a world-wide dental cline emanating from the sub-continent, provides further evidence that is consistent with an African origin model." (Irish JD, Guatelli-Steinberg D.(2003) Ancient teeth and modern human origins: an expanded comparison of African Plio-Pleistocene and recent world dental samples. Hum Evol. 2003 Aug;45(2):113-44. )
Recent dental analyses show that reductions in tooth wear among ancient Nile Valley populations due to routine evolutionary processes and better food preparation techniques- contradicting claims of sweeping European or Middle Eastern influxes into the Nile Valley.
quote: "The study of ancient Egyptian skeletons from Amarna, Egypt reveals extensive tooth wear but very little dental crowding, unlike in modern Americans. In the early 20th century, Percy Raymond Begg focused his research on extreme tooth wear coincident with traditional diets to justify teeth removal during orthodontic treatment. Anthropologists studying skeletons that were excavated along the Nile Valley in Egypt and the Sudan have demonstrated reductions in tooth size and changes in the face, including decreased robustness associated with the development of agriculture, but without any increase in the frequency of dental crowding and malocclusion. For thousands of years, facial and dental reduction stayed in step, more or less. These analyses suggest it was not the reduction in tooth wear that increased crowding and malocclusion, but rather the tremendous reduction in the forces of mastication, which produced this extreme tooth wear and the subsequent reduced jaw involvement. Thus, as modern food preparation techniques spread throughout the world during the 19th century, so did dental crowding. This research provides support for the development of orthodontic therapies that increase jaw dimensions rather than the use of tooth removal to relieve crowding."
--Rose JC, Roblee RD. (2009) Origins of dental crowding and malocclusions: an anthropological perspective. Compend Contin Educ Dent. 2009 Jun;30(5):292-300.
Older dental studies contradicting claims of mass European or Middle Easter influxes, confirmed by modern cranial analysis.
"However, as is well known and accepted, rapid evolution can occur. Also, rapid change in northeast Africa might be specifically anticipated because of the possibilities for punctuated microevolution (secondary to severe micro-selection and drift) in the early Holocene Sahara, because of the isolated communities and cyclical climatic changes there, and their possible subsequent human effects. The earliest southern predynastic culture, Badari, owes key elements to post-desiccation Saharan and also perhaps "Nubian" immigration (Hassan 1988). Biologically these people were essentially the same (see above and discussion; Keita 1990). It is also possible that the dental traits could have been introduced from an external source, and increased in frequency primarily because of natural selection, either for the trait or for a growth pattern requiring less energy. There is no evidence for sudden or gradual mass migration of Europeans or Near Easterners into the valley, as the term "replacement" would imply. There is limb ratio and craniofacial morphological and metric continuity in Upper Egypt-Nubia in a broad sense from the late paleolithic through dynastic periods.." -- S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54.
"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Jebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have 'donated' people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese."
"An examination of the distance hierarchies reveals the Badarian series to be more similar to the Teita in both analyses and always more similar to all of the African series than to the Norse and Berg groups (see Tables 3A & 3B and Figure 2). Essentially equal similarity is found with the Zalavar and Dogon series in the 11-variable analysis and with these and the Bushman in the one using 15 variables. The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithm is employed (see Figures 3 and 4).. In none of them did the Badarian sample affiliate with the European series." --(S.O.Y. Keita. Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data. Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005) S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54[/i] ------------------------------
Ancient Egyptian civilization was indigenous with continuity among its peoples, not an influx of Middle Easterners, Europeans or other outsiders like Arabs until relatively late in history
QUOTE(s): "Some have argued that various early Egyptians like the Badarians probably migrated northward from Nubia, while others see a wide-ranging movement of peoples across the breadth of the Sahara before the onset of desiccation. Whatever may be the origins of any particular people or civilization, however, it seems reasonably certain that the predynastic communities of the Nile valley were essentially indigenous in culture, drawing little inspiration from sources outside the continent during the several centuries directly preceding the onset of historical times..." (Robert July, Pre-Colonial Africa, 1975, p. 60-61)
"overall population continuity over the Predynastic and early Dynastic, and high levels of genetic heterogeneity, thereby suggesting that state formation occurred as a mainly indigenous process." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2007). "Population continuity or population change: Formation of the ancient Egyptian state". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 132 (4): 501-509)
"the peoples of the steppes and grasslands to the immediate south of Egypt domesticated cattle, as early as 9000 to 8000 B.C. They included peoples from the Afroasiastic linguistic group and the second major African language family, Nilo-Saharan (Wendorf, Schild, Close 1984; Wendorf, et al. 1982). Thus the earliest domestic cattle may have come to Egypt from these southern neighbors, circa 6000 B.C., and not from the Middle East.[148] Pottery, another significant advance in material cultural may also have followed this pattern, initiatied "as early as 9000 B.C. by the Nilo-Saharans and Afrasians who lived to the south of Egypt. Soon thereafter, pots spread to Egyptian sites, almost 2,000 years before the first pottery was made in the Middle East." (Christopher Ehret, "Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture," in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 25-27)
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies show some to be linked physically to Nubian types, and some documented royal officials are clearly "Negroid' like Pepi-seneb, an eminent scribe c. 2745 BC. Some royal New Kingdom mummies also show melanin frequencies consistent with Negroid origin.
# Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.
quotes: "In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults." (An X-ray atlas of the royal mummies. Edited by J.E. Harris and E.F. Wente. (The University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 1980.) Review: Michael R. Zimmerman, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, Volume 56, Issue 2 , (1981) Pages 207 - 208)
"While the Upper Nile Egyptians show phenotypic features that occur in higher frequencies in the Sudan and southward into East Africa (namely, facial prognathism, chamaerrhiny, and paedomorphic cranial architecture with specific modifications of the nasal aperature), these so-called Negroid features are not universal in the region of Thebes, Karnak, and Luxor." (Kennedy, Kenneth A.R., T. Plummer, J. Chinment, "Identification of the Eminent Dead: Pepi, A Scribe of Egypt," In Katherine J. Reichs (ed.), Forensic Osteology, 1986.)
X-Ray analysis of some royal mummies reveal strong Nubian affinities, also confirming Egyptologist Frank Yurco's findings as to such affinities. "The late XVII Dynasty and XVIII Dynasty royal mummies display the strongest Nubian affinities. In terms of maxillary protrusion as measured by SNA, the mean value for these Pharaohs is 84.21 comparable to that of African Americans. .. They exceed the latter in terms of ANB and SN-M Plane, but are closer to Caucasians in regards to SNB. However, the ability of SNA and SNB to predict maxillary and mandibular protrusion respectively has been questioned. Some studies suggest that measuring prognathism from the Frankfort horizontal would produce more reliable results (See RM Ricketts, RJ Schulhof, L Bagha. Orientation-sella-nasion or Frankfort horizontal. Am J Orthod 1976 Jun;69(6):648-654; also JW Moore. Variation of the sella-nasion plane and its effect on SNA and SNB. J Oral Surg. 1976 Jan; 34(1): 24-26).
In regards to head shape, the late XVII and XVIII dynasty mummies are very close to Nubian samples intermediate between the Mesolithic and Christian periods. The zygomatic arches are almost always vertical or forward and not receding."
--James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
2009 study finds the Nubians were ethnically the closest population to the ancient Egyptians not Europeans or Middle Easterners, confirming Egyptologist Frank Yurco's data from the 1980s and 1990s. Quotes: "The Mahalanobis D2 analysis uncovered close affinities between Nubians and Egyptians. Table 3 lists the Mahalanobis D2 distance matrix... In some cases, the statistics reveal that the Egyptian samples were more similar to Nubian samples than to other Egyptian samples (e.g. Gizeh and Hesa/Biga) and vice versa (e.g. Badari and Kerma, Naqada and Christian). These relationships are further depicted in the PCO plot (Fig. 2).
The clustering of the Nubian and Egyptian samples together supports this paper's hypothesis and demonstrates that there may be a close relationship between the two populations. This relationship is consistent with Berry and Berry (1972), among others, who noted a similarity between Nubians and Egyptians.
Both mtDNA (Krings et al., 1999) and Y-Chromosome data (Hassan et al., 2008; Keita, 2005; Lucotte and Mercier, 2003) indicate that migrations, usually bidirectional, occurred along the Nile. Thus, the osteological material used in this analysis also supports the DNA evidence.
On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations (Morant, 1935 G. Morant, A study of predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari based on measurements taken by Miss BN Stoessiger and Professor DE Derry, Biometrika 27 (1935), pp. 293–309.Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. (Hassan, 1986) and (Hassan, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990).
Nutter (1958) noted affinities between the Badarian and Naqada samples, a feature that Strouhal (1971) attributed to their skulls possessing “Negroid” traits. Keita (1992), using craniometrics, discovered that the Badarian series is distinctly different from the later Egyptian series, a conclusion that is mostly confirmed here. In the current analysis, the Badari sample more closely clusters with the Naqada sample and the Kerma sample. However, it also groups with the later pooled sample from Dynasties XVIII–XXV.
The reoccurring notation of Kerma affinities with Egyptian groups is not entirely surprising. Kerma was an integral part of the trade between Egypt and Nubia.
However, the archaeological evidence actually showed slow change in form over time (Adams, 1977) and the biological evidence demonstrated a similar trend in the skeletal data (e.g. Godde, in press; Van Gerven et al., 1977). These conclusions negate the possibility of invasion or migration causing the shifts in time periods. The results in this study are consistent with prior work; the Meroites and X-Group cluster with the remaining Nubian population and are not differentiated.
Gene flow may account for the homogeneity across these Nubian and Egyptian groups and is consistent with the biological diffusion precept. Small geographic distances between groups allow for the exchange of genes. The similarities uncovered by this study may be explained by another force, adaptation.. resemblance may be indicative of a common adaptation to a similar geographic location, rather than gene flow Egypt and Nubia have similar terrain and climate. Because of the similarity between and the overlapping of the two territories that would require similar adaptations to the environment, common adaptation cannot be discounted.
Gene flow appears likely between the Egyptians and Nubians, although common adaptations to a similar environment may have also been a factor in their cranial similarities. This study does not rule out the possibility that in situ biological evolution occurred at other times not represented by the samples in this analysis. "
-- Godde K. (2009) An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development? Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404.
German Institute for Archaeology -excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. In several of the noble specimens: "The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin." (Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues", Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13) Nubians are no "prequisite" for dark skin in ancient Egypt.
Nubians were ethnically the closest people to the Egyptians. Conflict between the two were typical clashes between kingdoms without the simplistic "racial" models drawn by some 20th century writers. Quote 1: "The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred. (Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
- Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
Yet more mainstream research shows the ancient Egyptians did not practice the racism of today's whites, and that Nubians and Egyptians mingled and intermarried freely despite OFFICIAL state dogma regarding foreign "enemies."
"..the Egyptians did not engage in the kind of racial prejudice seen in modern times. Modern racism largely revolves around differences in skin color. In particular, dark skin color was (and with some groups unfortunately still is) a sign of inferiority, regardless of individual achievement and sophistication. Miscegenation, or racial intermarriage, was considered immoral. At its worst, skin color distinguished between slaves and slaves and free people in the American South. In contrast, the ancient Egyptians, and indeed ancient Mediterranean peoples in general, did not make skin color a definitive criterion for racial discrimination (Snowden 1983). Slavery was not connected to race or even class. Royce (1982) notes that ethnic definitions stressing phenotype can inhibit the ability of individuals to cross ethnic boundaries, but the separation of language and culture (costume, hair style, etc) from biological phenotype (skin color, facial features), in social practice if not ideology, meant that foreigners could cross ethnic boundaries.
For example, Nubians like solider and royal confidant Mahirper achieved high position in Egyptian society as long as they assimilated to Egyptian cultural norms. Mahirper was raised at the Egyptian court with the future Pharaoh, and so may have been son of a Nubian prince. He held the important military title 'Fanbearer to the Right of the King." he was buried in the valley of the Kings, a privilege reserved only for kings and there immediate relatives. the burial itself was quote Lavish, with, among other things, high -quality coffins and expensive jewelry, reflecting Mahirper''s wealth and position.. In his Book of the Dead, he appears in every way Egyptian, except for his skin color and facial features (phenotype), which fit the Nubian stereotype.. In a similar way, Nubian mercenaries who settled in Egypt during the First Intermediate Period (c. 2150-2050 B.C.) were depicted on Egyptian funerary stelae in Egyptian dress with their Egyptian wives, but with Nubian physiognomy... Nubians, Asiatics and other peoples married freely with the Egyptians, and slaves were sometimes adopted into Egyptian families, at least among the elite. Asiatic gods and goddesses even found a place in the Egyptian pantheon (Redford 1992). It was the cultural identity of immigrants to Egypt that mattered to their success in Egyptian society, not their skin color or ancestry. Even when foreigners remained culturally foreign, more prosaic sources allowed that foreigners could act in positive ways and be incorporated into the civilized sphere. the ancient Egyptian construction of ethnic identities this reflects cultural chauvinism more than racism."
--Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 22-24
One of Egypt's greatest dynasties, the 12th, originated from dark-skinned Nubian stock, according to conservative Egyptologist F. Yurco (1989). The 12th Dynasty ruled approximately 1000 years BEFORE the well known "black" 25th Dynasty. Quote 2:
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
"Among the foreigners, the Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians. In the late predynastic period (c. 3700-3150 B.C.E.), the Nubians shared the same culture as the Egyptians and even evolved the same pharaonic political structure." - (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
Ancient Egyptian religion closer to the religion of African regions than to Mesopotamia, Europe or the Middle East
QUOTE(s): Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508 "A large number of gods go back to prehistoric times. The images of a cow and star goddess (Hathor), the falcon (Horus), and the human-shaped figures of the fertility god (Min) can be traced back to that period. Some rites, such as the "running of the Apil-bull," the "hoeing of the ground," and other fertility and hunting rites (e.g., the hippopotamus hunt) presumably date from early times.. Connections with the religions in southwest Asia cannot be traced with certainty." "It is doubtful whether Osiris can be regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis, or whether Hathor is related to the "Great Mother." There are closer relations with northeast African religions. The numerous animal cults (especially bovine cults and panther gods) and details of ritual dresses (animal tails, masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of African origin. The kinship in particular shows some African elements, such as the king as the head ritualist (i.e., medicine man), the limitations and renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide), and the position of the king's mother (a matriarchal element). Some of them can be found among the Ethiopians in Napata and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic tribes (Shilluk)." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed. Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian Religion" , pg 506-508)
Egyptian dynastic civilization based from the 'darker' south (Upper Egypt) not the north (Lower Egypt)
QUOTE(s): "While not attempting to underestimate the contribution that Deltaic political and religious institutions made to those of a united Egypt, many Egyptologists now discount the idea that a united prehistoric kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."
"While communities such as Ma'adi appear to have played an important role in entrepots through which goods and ideas form south-west Asia filtered into the Nile Valley in later prehistoric times, the main cultural and political tradition that gave rise to the cultural pattern of Early Dynastic Egypt is to be found not in the north but in the south.": The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 1, From the Earliest Times to c. 500 BC, (Cambridge University Press: 1982), Edited by J. Desmond Clark pp. 500-509
"..the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." (Source: Shaw, Thurston (1976) Changes in African Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in African Studies since 1945. p. 156-68. London.)
Egyptian state founded from the south, and indigenous in character. Egyptians dominated Palestine in some eras.
"What is truly unique about this state is the integration of rule over an extensive geographic region, in contrast to other contemporaneous Near Easter polities in Nubia, Mesopotamia, Palestine and the Levant. Present evidence suggests that the state which emerged by the First Dynasty had its roots in the Nagada culture of Upper Egypt, where grave types, pottery and artifacts demonstrate an evolution of form from the Predynastic to the First Dynasty, This cannot be demonstrated for the material culture of Lower Egypt, which was eventually displaced by that which originated in Upper Egypt. Hierarchical society with much social and economic differentiation, as symbolized in the Nagada II cemeteries of Upper Egypt, does not seem to have been present, then, in Lower Egypt, a fact which supports an Upper Egyptian origin for the unified state. Thus archaeological evidence cannot support earlier theories that the founders of Egyptian civilization were an invading Dynastic race from the east.."
"Egyptian contact in the 4th millennium B.C. with SW Asia is undeniable, but the effect of this contact on state formation is Egypt is less clear... The unified state which emerged in Egypt in the 3rd millenium B.C. however, was unlike the polities in Mesopotamia, the Levant, northern Syria, or Early Bronze Age Palestine- in sociopolitical organization, material culture, and belief system. There was undoubtedly heightened commercial contact with SW Asia in the 4th millennium B.C., but the Early Dynastic state which emerged in Egypt is unique and religious in character." (Bard, Kathryn A. 1994 The Egyptian Predynastic: A Review of the Evidence. Journal of Field Archaeology 21(3):265-288.)
"From Petrie onwards, it was regularly suggested that despite the evidence of Predynastic cultures, Egyptian civilization of the 1st Dynasty appeared suddenly and must therefore have been introduced by an invading foreign 'race'. Since the 1970s however, excavations at Abydos and Hierakonpolis have clearly demonstrated the indigenous, Upper Egyptian roots of early civilization in Egypt.
Contact between northern Egypt and Palestine was overland, as evidence in northern Sinai demonstrates.. Israeli archealogists suggest that this evidence represents a commercial network established and controlled by the Egyptians as early as EBA Ia, and that this network was a major factor in the rise of the urban settlements found later in Palestine EBA II. Naomi Porat's technological study of ceramics from EBA sites in southern Palestine clearly demonstrates that in EBA Ib strata many of the pottery vessels used for food preparation were probably manufactured by Egyptian potters using Egyptian technology but local Palestinian clays. In EBA Ib strata there are also many storage jars made from Nile silt and marl wares, which must have been imported from Egypt. Not only did the Egyptians establish camps and way stations in northern Sinai, but the ceramic evidence also suggests that they established a highly organized network of settlements in southern Palestine where an Egyptian population was in residence." (Ian Shaw ed. (2003) The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt By Ian Shaw. Oxford University Press, page 40-63)
Much older scholarship shows cultural similarities between ancient Egypt and the rest of Africa, contradicting claims of Middle Eastern inspiration.
--Specific central African tool designs found at the well known Naqada, Badari and Fayum archaeological sites in Egypt (de Heinzelin 1962, Arkell and Ucko, 1956 et al). Shaw (1976) states that "the early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are essentially African and early African social customs and religious beliefs were the root and foundation of the ancient Egyptian way of life." Pottery evidence first seen in the Saharan Highlands then spreading to the Nile Valley (Flight 1973). Art motifs of Saharan rock paintings showing similarities to those in pharaonic art. A number of scholars suggest that these earlier artistic styles influenced later pharaonic art via Saharans leaving drier areas and moving into the Nile Valley taking their art styles with them (Mori 1964, Blanc 1964, et al)
--Earlier pioneering mummification outside Egypt. The oldest mummy in Africa is of a black Saharan child (Donadoni 1964, Blanc 1964) Frankfort (1956) suggests that it is thus possible to understand the pharaonic worldview by reference to the religious beliefs of these earlier African precursors. Attempts to suggest the root of such practices are due to Caucasoid civilizers from elsewhere are thus contradicted by the data on the ground.
--Several cultural practices of Egypt show strong similarities to an African totemic clan base. Childe (1969, 1978), Aldred (1978) and Strouhal (1971) demonstrate linkages with several African practices such as divine kingship and the king as divine rainmaker.
--Physical similarities of the early Nile valley populations with that of tropical Africans. Such connections are demonstrated in the work of numerous scholars such as Thompson and Randall Mclver 1905, Falkenburger 1947, and Strouhal 1971. The distance diagrams of Mukherjee, Rao and Trevor (1955) place the ancient Badarians genetically near 'black' tribes such as the Ashanti and the Taita. See also the "Issues of lumping under Mediterranean clusters" section above for similar older analyses.
--Serological (blood) evidence of genetic linkages. Paoli 1972 for example found a significant resemblance between ABO frequencies of dynastic Egyptians and the black northern Haratin who are held to be the probable descendants of the original Saharans (Hiernaux, 1975).
--Language similarities which include several hundred roots ascribable to African elements (UNESCO 1974)
--Ancient Egyptian origin stories ascribing origins of the gods and their ancestors to African locations to the south and west of Egypt (Davidson 1959)
--Advanced state building and political unity in Nubia, including writing, administrative apparatus and insignia some 300 years before dynastic Egypt, and the long demonstrated interchange between Nubia and Egypt (Williams 1980)
--Newer studies (Wendorf 2001, Wilkinson 1999, et al.) confirm these older analyses. Excavations from Nabta Playa, located about 100km west of Abu Simbel for example, suggest that the Neolithic inhabitants of the region were migrants from Sub-Saharan Africa, based on cultural similarities and social complexity which is thought to be reflective of Egypt's Old Kingdom
--Other scholars (Wilkinson 1999) present similar material and cultural evidence- including similarities between predynastic Egypt and traditional African cattle-culture, typical of Southern Sudanese and East African pastoralists of today, and various cultural and artistic data such as iconography on rock art found in both Egypt and in the Sudan.
Assorted demic diffusion theories holding a mass influx of Europeans or Middle Easterners to Africa bringing cattle and agriculture to the natives is not supported by credible evidence. Indigenous development is most likely.
"Furthermore, the archaeology of northern Africa DOES NOT SUPPORT demic diffusion of farming from the Near East. The evidence presented by Wetterstrom indicates that early African farmers in the Fayum initially INCORPORATED Near Eastern domesticates INTO an INDIGENOUS foraging strategy, and only OVER TIME developed a dependence on horticulture. This is inconsistent with in-migrating farming settlers, who would have brought a more ABRUPT change in subsistence strategy. "The same archaeological pattern occurs west of Egypt, where domestic animals and, later, grains were GRADUALLY adopted after 8000 yr B.P. into the established pre-agricultural Capsian culture, present across the northern Sahara since 10,000 yr B.P. From this continuity, it has been argued that the pre-food-production Capsian peoples spoke languages ancestral to the Berber and/or Chadic branches of Afroasiatic, placing the proto-Afroasiatic period distinctly before 10,000 yr B.P."
Source: The Origins of Afroasiatic Christopher Ehret, S. O. Y. Keita, Paul Newman;, and Peter Bellwood Science 3 December 2004: Vol. 306. no. 5702, p. 1680
Recent studies of the Siwa Berber population in Egypt, puts them closer to sub-Saharan populations that other populations.
"Admixture values based on Alu/STR combinations indicate that sub-Saharan flow in North Africa ranged from 16% (North East Moroccan Berbers) to 35% (remaining samples) with the exception of Siwa berbers who showed the highest admixture value (51%)" -- --Gonzalez et al on the Siwa (Egyptian Oasis) Berbers. "Population Relationships in the Mediterranean Revealed by Autosomal Genetic Data" 2009, Amer Jrn Phy. Anth.
When claims of European or 'Mediterranean' migrant influx to ancient Egypt before the Hyskos/Greek/Roman era are analyzed research data conclusively debunks them. Quote from "Early Nile Valley Farmers From El-Badari"
Male Badarian crania were analyzed using the generalized distance of Mahalanobis in a comparative analysis with other African and European series from the Howells?s database. The study was carried out to examine the affinities of the Badarians to evaluate, in preliminary fashion, a demic diffusion hypothesis that postulates that horticulture and the Afroasiatic language family were brought ultimately from southern Europe. (The assumption was made that the southern Europeans would be more similar to the central and northern Europeans than to any indigenous African populations.) The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. This suggests that the Badarians were more affiliated with local and an indigenous African population than with Europeans. (S.O.Y. Keita. "Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data". Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
The Sahara and the Sudan seem to have provided a major source for the genesis of Egyptian civilization contributing many of its unique elements.
QUOTE(s): "a critical factor in the rise of social complexity and the subsequent emergence of the Egyptian state in Upper Egypt (Hoffman 1979; Hassan 1988). If so, Egypt owes a major debt to those early pastoral groups in the Sahara; they may have provided Egypt with many of those features that still distinguish it from its neighbors to the east." Journal of Anthropological Archaeology 17, 97-123 (1998), "Nabta Playa and Its Role in Northeastern African Prehistory," Fred Wendorf and Romuald Schild.
"Over the last two decades, numerous contemporary (Khartoum Neolithic) sites and cemeteries have been excavated in the Central Sudan.. The most striking point to emerge is the overall similarity of early neolithic developments inhabitation, exchange, material culture and mortuary customs in the Khartoum region to those underway at the same time in the Egyptian Nile Valley, far to the north." (Wengrow, David (2003) "Landscapes of Knowledge, Idioms of Power: The African Foundations of Ancient Egyptian Civilization Reconsidered," in Ancient Egypt in Africa, David O'Connor and Andrew Reid, eds. Ancient Egypt in Africa. London: University College London Press, 2003, pp. 119-137)
"Sub-Saharan" genetic elements found as far afield as the Turkish and Greek regions
F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
"Following the numerous interactions among eastern Mediterranean and Levantine populations and regions, caused by the introduction of agriculture from the Levant into Anatolia and southeastern Europe, there was, beginning in the Bronze Age, a period of increasing interactions in the eastern Mediterranean, mainly during the Greek, Roman, and Islamic periods. These interactions resulted in the development of trading networks, military campaigns, and settler colonization. Major changes took place during this period, which may have accentuated or diluted the sub-Saharan components of earlier Anatolian populations. The second option seems more likely, because even though the population from Sagalassos territory was interacting with northeastern African and Levantine populations [trade relationships with Egypt (Arndt et al. 2003), involvement of thousands of mercenaries from Pisidia (Sagalassos region) in the war around 300 B.C. between the Ptolemaic kingdom (centered in Egypt) and the Seleucid kingdom (Syria/Mesopotamia/Anatolia), etc.], the major cultural and population interactions involving the Anatolian populations since the Bronze Age occurred with the Mediterranean populations form southeastern Europe, as suggested from historical and genetic data."
""In this context it is likely that Bronze Age events may have facilitated the southward diffusion of populations carrying northern and central European biological elements and may have contributed to some degree of admixture between northern and central Europeans and Anatolians, and on a larger scale, between northeastern Mediterraneans and Anatolians. Even if we do not know which populations were involved, historical and archaeological data suggest, for instance, the 2nd millennium B.C. Minoan and later Mycenaean occupation of Anatolian coast, the arrival in Anatolia in the early 1st millennium B.C. of the Phrygians coming from Thrace, and later the arrival of settlers from Macedonia in Pisidia and in the Sagalassos territory (under Seleucid rule). The coming of the Dorians from Northern Greece and central Europe (the Dorians are claimed to be one of the main groups at the origin of the ancient Greeks) may have also brought northern and central European biological elements into southern populations. Indeed, the Dorians may have migrated southward to the Peloponnese, across the southern Aegean and Create, and later reached Asia Minor."
Ancient Egyptian language is part of the Afrasian or Afroasiatic group which has its origins in Africa, and together with other archaeological evidence firmly makes it an African culture. Acording to mainstream research:
QUOTE(s):
"Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots. The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt. The ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Afrasian family (also called Afroasiatic or, formerly, Hamito-Semitic). The speakers of the earliest Afrasian languages, according to recent studies, were a set of peoples whose lands between 15,000 and 13,000 B.C. stretched from Nubia in the west to far northern Somalia in the east. They supported themselves by gathering wild grains. The first elements of Egyptian culture were laid down two thousand years later, between 12,000 and 10,000 B.C., when some of these Afrasian communities expanded northward into Egypt, bringing with them a language directly ancestral to ancient Egyptian. They also introduced to Egypt the idea of using wild grains as food." (Christopher Ehret (1996) "Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture." In Egypt in Africa Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press)
"Ancient Egypt belongs to a language group known as 'Afroasiatic' (formerly called Hamito-Semitic) and its closest relatives are other north-east African languages from Somalia to Chad. Egypt's cultural features, both material and ideological and particularly in the earliest phases, show clear connections with that same broad area. In sum, ancient Egypt was an African culture, developed by African peoples, who had wide ranging contacts in north Africa and western Asia." (Morkot, Robert (2005) The Egyptians: An Introduction. Routledge. p. 10)
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ANCIENT EGYPTIANS AND HAIR ----------
Mummification actices and dyeing of hair Hair studies of mummies note that color is often influenced by environmental factors at burial sites. Brothwell and Spearman (ref in Fletcher's works-1963) point out that reddish-brown ancient color hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. Other causes of hair color "blonding" involve bleaching, caused by the alkaline in the mummification process. Color also varies due to the Egyptian practice of dyeing hair with henna. Other samples show individuals lightening the hair using vegetable colorants. Thus variations in hair color among mummies do not necessarily suggest the presence of blond or red-haired Europeans or Near Easterners flitting about Egypt before being mummified, but the influence of environmental factors. --------
Egyptian practice of putting locks of hair in mummy wrappings.
Racial analysis is also made problematic by the Egyptian practice of burying hair, in many "votive or funerary deposits buried separately from the body, a practice found from Predynastic to Roman times despite its frequent omission from excavation reports." (Fletcher 2002) In examining hair samples Fletcher (2004) notes that care is needed to determine what is natural scalp hair, versus hair from a wig, versus hair extensions to natural locks. Tracking the exact source of hair is also critical since the Egyptians were known to have placed locks of hair from different sources among mummy wrappings. (The Search for Nefertiti, By Joann Fletcher, HarperCollins, 2004, p. 93-94, 96; Joann Fletcher, ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS, THE OSTRACON THE JOURNAL OF THE EGYPTIAN STUDY SOCIETY, VOLUME 13, NUMBER 2; SUMMER 2002) -------------------------------------------------------------
Hair for wigs often obtained through trade not mass waves of "Caucasoid" migrants.
The use of wigs made of varying hair also complicates attempts at 'racial' analysis. Fletcher (2002) shows that many Egyptian wigs have been found with what is defined as straighter 'cynotrichous' hair. This however is hardly a marker of massive European or Near Eastern presence or admixture. Fletcher notes that the Egyptians often eschewed their own personal hair, shaving carefully and using wigs widely. The hair for these wigs was often obtained through trade. Indeed, "hair itself being a valuable commodity ranked alongside gold and incense in account lists from the town of Kahun." Egyptian trading links with other regions is well known, and a prized commodity like straighter 'cynotrichous' hair could have been easily obtained via the Sahara, Levant, the Maghreb, Mediterranean contacts, or even the hair of Asiatic war captives or casulaties from Egypt's numerous conflicts. -------------------------------------------------------------
Red-headed Ramses- routine for genetic variability in Africa not "whiteness"
Rameses came along comparatively late in Egyptian history, when outsiders toEgypt like the Hyskos were increasing in the region. Detailed microscopic analysis during the 1980s (Balout 1985) identified some of the hair of Egyptian Pharoah Rameses II as being a yellowish-red. Such a finding should not be surprising given the wide range of physical variability in Africa, the most genetically diverse region on earth, out of which flowed other population groups. Indeed, blondism and various other hair shades are not unknown in East Africa or Nubia, particularly in children, nor are such hair color variants uncommon in dark-haired or dark skinned populations like the Australians. (Hrdy 1978) Given the range of genetic variability in Africa, a red-haired Rameses is hardly unusual. Rameses' reign, in the 19th Dynasty, came over 1,500 years after the Egyptian state had been established, and after the Hyskos interlude. Such latecomers to Egypt, like the Hyskos, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs etc would add their own genetic strands to the nation's mix. Whatever the blend of genes that occurred with Rameses, his hair offers little supposed "proof" of a "white" or "Nordic" Egypt. If anything, X-rays of several royal mummies by mainstream scientists show that the Egyptians pharoahs and other royals had several uncomfortable 'Negroid' leanings. (http://www.geocities.com/nilevalleypeoples/xraymummies1.htm) -------------------------------------------------------------
Red hair can be readily produced by dark-skinned populations- just check out Australia and pheomelanin
The finding of Rameses "red" hair also deserves further scrutiny. The analysis found evidence of dyeing to make the hair yellowish-red, but some elements were untouched by the dye. These elements of yellowish-red hair in Balout's study, were established on the basis of the presence of pheomelanin, a red-brown polymeric pigment in the skin and hair of humans. However, pheomelanin can also be found in persons with dark brown or even black hair as well, which gives it a reddish hue. Most natural melanins contain sulfur, which is typically associated with pheomelanin. In scientific tests of melanin, black hair contained as much as 5% sulfur, 3% lower than the 8.8% found in Irish red hair, but exceeding the 2.3% found in Scandinavian blond hair. (Jolles, et al. 1996) Thus the yellowish-red hair discovered on Rameses is well within the range of human variation for dark haired people, whatever the exact gene combination that led to the condition.
As noted above, such variation began with ancient African populations. Most red hair is found in northern and western Europe, especially in the British Isles, and even then it appears in minor frequencies in Europe- some 4% of the population. It is unlikely such populations had any major contact or influence in the ancient Nile Valley. The analysis on Rameses also did not show classic "European" red hair but hair of a light red to yellowish tinge. Black haired or dark-skinned populations are quite capable of producing such yellowish-red color variants on their own, as can be seen in today's east and northeast Africa (see child's photo above). Nor is such color variation unusual to Africa. Native dark-skinned populations in Australia, routinely produce people witn blond or reddish hair. .
The analysis also found Rameses' hair to be cymotrich or wavy, again a characteristic quite within the range of overall African or Nile valley physical and genetic diversity. A "pure" Nordic type of straight hair was thus not established for Rameses. Hence the notion of white Europeans or red-headed Caucasoids from other areas flowing into ancient Egypt to add hair variation is dubious. Inflows occurred during the Greek and Roman eras but reddish or brown hair is within the range of African variation. Genetic studies (Tishkoff 2009, 2000) show Africans have the highest diversity in the world. Skeletal/cranial studies confirm the pattern. Relethford (2001) shows that ".. methods for estimating regional diversity show sub-Saharan Africa to have the highest levels of phenotypic variation, consistent with many genetic studies." (Relethford, John "Global Analysis of Regional Differences in Craniometric Diversity and Population Substructure". Human Biology - Volume 73, Number 5, October 2001, pp. 629-636) Hanihara 2003 notes that [significant] "..intraregional diversity are present in Subsaharan Africans.." While ancient Egypt had gene flow in various eras, hair variations easily fall under this pattern of built-in, indigenous diversity, as well as the above noted cultural practice of using wigs with hair from different places obtained through trade.
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Joann Fletcher, ANCIENT EGYPTIAN HAIR AND WIGS, THE OSTRACON THE JOURNAL OF THE EGYPTIAN STUDY SOCIETY, VOLUME 13, NUMBER 2; SUMMER 2002
The Search for Nefertiti, By Joann Fletcher, HarperCollins, 2004, p. 93-94, 96
Brothwell. D., and R. Spearman 1963 The hair of earlier peoples. In: Science in Archaeology. D. Brothwell and E. Higgs, eds. Thames and Hudeon, London, p. 427-436
Daniel Hrdy 1978- Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262)
Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa," American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 83:35-48 (1990
Hair Styles and History, by Cyril Aldred, The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin, New Series, Vol. 15, No. 6 (Feb., 1957), pp. 141-147)
L. Balout, C. Roubet and C. Desroches-Noblecourt, and was titled La Momie de Ramsès II: Contribution Scientifique à l'Égyptologie (1985).
Formation and Structure of Human Hair: Biology and Structure, By Pierre Jollès, Helmut Zahn, H. Höcker, Birkhäuser, 1996, pp. 200-225
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NUBIA AND EGYPT- Nubians and Egyptians were so close in various eras that they were virtually indistinguishable
“The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred. (Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
- Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
Yet more mainstream research shows the ancient Egyptians did not practice the racism of today's whites, and that Nubians and Egyptians mingled and intermarried freely despite OFFICIAL state dogma regarding foreign "enemies."
"..the Egyptians did not engage in the kind of racial prejudice seen in modern times. Modern racism largely revolves around differences in skin color. In particular, dark skin color was (and with some groups unfortunately still is) a sign of inferiority, regardless of individual achievement and sophistication. Miscegenation, or racial intermarriage, was considered immoral. At its worst, skin color distinguished between slaves and slaves and free people in the American South. In contrast, the ancient Egyptians, and indeed ancient Mediterranean peoples in general, did not make skin color a definitive criterion for racial discrimination (Snowden 1983). Slavery was not connected to race or even class. Royce (1982) notes that ethnic definitions stressing phenotype can inhibit the ability of individuals to cross ethnic boundaries, but the separation of language and culture (costume, hair style, etc) from biological phenotype (skin color, facial features), in social practice if not ideology, meant that foreigners could cross ethnic boundaries.
For example, Nubians like solider and royal confidant Mahirper achieved high position in Egyptian society as long as they assimilated to Egyptian cultural norms. Mahirper was raised at the Egyptian court with the future Pharaoh, and so may have been son of a Nubian prince. He held the important military title 'Fanbearer to the Right of the King." he was buried in the valley of the Kings, a privilege reserved only for kings and there immediate relatives. the burial itself was quote Lavish, with, among other things, high -quality coffins and expensive jewelry, reflecting Mahirper''s wealth and position.. In his Book of the Dead, he appears in every way Egyptian, except for his skin color and facial features (phenotype), which fit the Nubian stereotype.. In a similar way, Nubian mercenaries who settled in Egypt during the First Intermediate Period (c. 2150-2050 B.C.) were depicted on Egyptian funerary stelae in Egyptian dress with their Egyptian wives, but with Nubian physiognomy... Nubians, Asiatics and other peoples married freely with the Egyptians, and salves were sometimes adopted into Egyptian families, at least among the elite. Asiatic gods and goddesses even found a place in the Egyptian pantheon (Redford 1992). It was the cultural identity of immigrants to Egypt that mattered to their success in Egyptian society, not their skin color or ancestry. Even when foreigners remained culturally foreign, more prosaic sources allowed that foreigners could act in positive ways and be incorporated into the civilized sphere. the ancient Egyptian construction of ethnic identities this reflects cultural chauvinism more than racism."
--Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 22-24
Integration of Nubian and egyptian elites in some eras
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies." - (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
The pharaohs that forbid the movement of certain Nubian tribes into Egypt were themselves of negroid origin according to conservative mainstream Egyptologist Frank Yurco..
Quote:
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
Applying a consistent 'race' model that interprets war between Egyptians and Nubians as 'racial' the Egyptians also pursued 'racial' wars against whites from the Middle East.
RAMESES II. SLAYING THE "whites" BEFORE RA, THE TUTELARY DEITY OF THE GREAT TEMPLE OF ABÛ-SIMBEL..
THE DISCOURSE OF AMEN-RA, LORD OF THRONES.
Thou hast struck off the heads of the Asiatics, and their children cannot escape from thee. Every land illuminated by thy diadem is encircled by thy might; and in all the zone of the heavens there is not a rebel to rise up against thee. The enemy bring in their tribute on their backs, prostrating themselves before thee, their limbs trembling and their hearts burned up within them."
Campaign against "white" Mittani in parts of Lebanon:
"He is a king valiant ... Naharin which its lord had deserted out of fear ... I hacked up its towns and villages and I set fire to them ... I carried off their inhabitants ... also their herds of cattle ... I felled all their plantations and their fruit trees ...I had many vessels ... built on the mountains of God's Land in the neighborhood of the Lady of Byblos ... then on that mountain of Naharin, my Majesty erected my stela, carved out of the mountain on the western side of the Euphrates.."
Conquest against and tribute from "white" Palestine:
"Tribute of the princes of Retenu, who came to do obeisance ... to the souls of his majesty... Now every harbor at which his majesty arrived was supplied with loaves and with assorted loaves, with oil, incense, wine, f[ruit] ---- abundant were they beyond everything ...
Tribute from 'white' Lebanon:
The chieftains, lord of Lebanon, construct the royal ships in order that people may sail south in them to bring all the marvels of the "Garden" to the palace. LPH. ... The chieftains of Retjenu (Retenu) who drag the flagpoles by means of oxen to the shore, it is they who come with their dues to the place where his majesty is, to the Residence in ...... bearing all the fine products brought as marvels of the south and being taxed for tribute annually as (with) all bondsmen of his Majesty."
Operations against more 'white' 'Troglodytes':
"Then my Majesty made them take their oaths of allegiance as follows: never again shall we do anything evil against Menkheperre (another name for Thutmose III), may he live forever ... Then my Majesty had them set free on the road to their cities*). They went off on donkeys for I had seized their chariotry. I captured their inhabitants for Egypt and their property likewise." [W. Helck transl. by B. Cummings (1982), `Urkunden der 18. Dynastie', `Egyptian Historical Records of the Later 18th Dynasty']
"His majesty proceeded northward, to overthrow the Asiatics (Mntyw-Stt). His majesty arrived at a district, Sekmem (Skmm) was its name. His majesty led the good way in proceeding to the palace of `Life, Prosperity, and Health (L.P.H.,' when Sekmen had fallen, together with Retenu (Rtnw) the wretched, while I was acting as rearguard." [Breasted, `Records', Vol. I, Sec. 680] Time of Seti the Great - Presentation of Syrian Prisoners and Precious Vessels to Amon
"Smiting the Troglodytes, beating down the Asiatics (Mn·t·yw), making his boundary as far as the `Horns of the Earth', as far as the marshes of Naharin (N-h-r-n)." [Ibid., Vol. III, Sec. 118;]
"Slaying of the Asiatic Troglodytes (Ynw-Mn·t·yw [Menate, Manasseh]), all inaccessible countries, all lands, the Fenkhu of the marshes of Asia, the Great Bend of the sea (w'd-wr)."
Booty seized from "white" Caananites:
".... 340 living prisoners; 83 hands; 2,401 mares; 191 foals; 6 stallions; ... young ...; a chariot, wrought with gold, (its) pole of gold, belonging to the chief of `M-k-ty' (as the land around Jerusalem was called); .... 892 chariots of his wretched army; total, 924 (chariots); a beautiful suit of bronze armor, belonging to the chief of Jerusalem; .... 200 suits of armor, belonging to his wretched army; 502 bows; 7 poles of (mry) wood, wrought with silver, belonging to the tent of that foe. Behold, the army of his majesty took ...., 297 ...., 1,929 large cattle, 2,000 small cattle, 20500 white small cattle." [JBRE, `Records', Vol. II, Sec. 435; See also the following sections.]
Tribute from "white" Assur/Assyria "The tribute of the chief of Assur (Ys-sw-r): genuine lapis lazuli, a large block, making 20 deben, 9 kidet; genuine lapis lazuli, 2 blocks; total, 3; and pieces, [making] 30 deben; total, 50 deben and 9 kidet; fine lapis lazuli from Babylon (Bb-r); vessels of Assur of hrrt- stone in colors, ---- very many." "Tribute of the chief of Assur: horses ---. A ---- of skin of the M-h-w as the [protection] of a chariot, of the finest of --- wood; 190(+x) wagons --- --- wood, nhb wood, 343 pieces, carob wood, 50 pieces; nby and k'nk wood, 206 pieces; olive oil, ------.." [BREASTED, Vol. II, Sec. 446, 449]
"Whites" put to slave labor in Egypt.
from Project Guttenberg full text of: A HISTORY OF EGYPT FROM THE EARLIEST TIMES TO THE PERSIAN CONQUEST BY JAMES HENRY BREASTED, II, 760-1, 773. 2 II, 761.
Inscription "the Asiatics of all countries came with bowed head, doing obeisance to the fame of his majesty."
book text:
"Thutmose's war-galleys moored in the harbour of the town; but at this time not merely the iceaUh of Asia was unloaded from the ships; the Asiatics themselves, bound one to another in long lines, were led down the gang planks to begin a life of slave- labour for the Pharaoh (Fig. 119). They wore long matted beards, an abomination to the Egyptians ; their hair hung in heavy black masses upon their shoulders, and they were clad in gaily coloured woolen stuffs, such as the Egyptian, spotless in his white linen robe, would never put on his body.
Their arms were pinioned behind them at the elbows or crossed over their heads and lashed together ; or, again, their hands were thrust through odd pointed ovals of wood, which served as hand-cuffs. The women carried their children slung in a fold of the mantle over their shoulders. With their strange speech and uncouth postures the poor wretches were the subject of jibe and merriment on the part of the multitude ; while the artists of the time could never forbear caricaturing them. Many of them found their way into the houses of the Pharaoh's favourites, and his generals were liberally rewarded with gifts of such slaves; but the larger number were immediately employed on the temple estates, the Pharaoh's domains, or in the construction of his great monuments and buildings."
------------ [quotes from --Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 28-31)
"The Instruction for King, Merikare takes a similar tone for peoples in the north (Lichtheim 1973: 10404):
Lo the miserable Asiatic, He is wretched because of the place he's in: Short of water, bare of wood, Its paths are many and painful because of mountains. He does not dwell in one place, Food propels his legs, He fights since the time of Horus.. He does not announce the day of combat, Like a thief who darts about a group..
Asiatics are both cowardly and pitiful, leading a marginal existence, constantly fighting but with nothing ever settled. They are also sly and ultimately treacherous, attacking without warning. This passage characterizes Asiatics as both primitive and threatening.. In this case, the passage reflects Egypt's combination of colonial domination and outright military conflict..
Merikare goes on (Lichtheim 1976: 103-104)
The Asiatic is a crocodile on its shore It snatches from a lonely road, It cannot seize a populous town.
"Along the same lines, the Prophecy of Neferti (c. 1950 BC) portrays Asiatic immigrants as a flock of rapacious birds descending on Egypt, taking advantage of civil wars of the First Intermediate Period (c. 2150 - 2050 BC) to infiltrate parts of the rich Egyptian delta (Lichtheim 1973: 141):
A strange bird will breed in the delta marsh, having made its nest besides the people.. All happiness is vanished, The land is bowed down in distress, Owing to those feeders, Asiatics who roam the land..
--Stuart Tyson Smith. (2003) Wretched Kush: ethnic identities and boundaries in Egypt's Nubian empire. Routledge, pp. 28-31
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conservative Egyptologist Frank Yurco, shows that the 12th Dynasty was of the negroid type, of Upper Egyptian and Nubian origin. The 12th Dynasty is one of Egypt's greatest, and was in place approximately 1000 years before the 25th dynasty. Yurco also shows that the Nubians were ethnically the closest people to the Egyptians.
Quote: "the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
"Among the foreigners, the Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians. In the late predynastic period (c. 3700-3150 B.C.E.), the Nubians shared the same culture as the Egyptians and even evolved the same pharaonic political structure." - (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Are you white? I have nothing against white people if they are not meddling in the affairs of Africa resulting in the suffering of my people. You can't help who you fall in love with? Nonsense. That is a cope out.
All these successful black American roll models could not help falling in love with white women/men or is it a status symbol to have a white woman/man on your hand? No wonder other races look down on the black race. While other races are fighting to preserve their gene pool only the black race desires to lose it. http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos.html
Could part of the issue be that Hollyweird is dominated by white folks? Let's examine this a bit: for instance, if we are to look at black female celebrities, will we see more of the same, or will it be vastly different?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by fawal: What strawman distraction? I don't see how thats such an invalid question. You all expect people to take your word over that of the seasoned egyptologist, anthropologist, or archeologist in the field as it concerns matters on North African historiography; I don't see why its such blasphemy to inquire as to what qualifications you all actually have. Because the harsh reality is, that most in the academic world do not agree with any of you. The sentiments expressed on this site are that of a fringe minority. If you all truly believe that the "work" that you all do here is propelling any form paradigm shift your sadly mistaken.
...
And the notion that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans is far from mainstream. Only Afrocentrists believe that.
For you to criticize us for not being in agreement with mainstream science is throwing stones from a glass house, because you yourself have fringe beliefs. Most scientists don't endorse the racist beliefs you've articulated on this board several times, or for that matter even endorse your notion of "race". I should know, I've taken a physical anthropology class at my college, and both the professor and our textbook made it explicitly clear that "race" is not a useful concept for describing human variation. You could argue that there's some PC conspiracy afflicting the scientific community, but that would be no less outlandish than the idea that there is a racist conspiracy on the part of scientists to deny African achievement.
Frankly, I don't think you really give a damn about the scientific consensus on any issue. You only agree with the consensus (or rather your perception of what the consensus is) when you think it supports your prejudices. If it doesn't, you write it off as "political correctness". You are not truly interested in what science has to say. You are interested only in finding rationalization for your racism.
The fact of the matter is that you are the fringe lunatic in this debate. The scientific evidence I've seen shows that a) "race" is not a useful construct for describing variation within our subspecies (you do know that we are all one subspecies, right?) and b) the ancient Egyptians were a tropically adapted African people originating from south of the Sahara, the part conventionally described as "black Africa".
BTW, I don't know why you think your northwest African brethren are that much superior to other Africans anyway. I can't think of anything impressive the Berbers accomplished on their own without intervention from the Carthaginians, Romans, and Arabs---certainly not anything comparable with, say, Mali or Nubia.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by fawal: NO respectable man of status wants a black b*tch on his arm!
Referring to black women as "bitches"...if that doesn't prove you're a racist troll, I have no idea what would.
BTW, I am a white man, and I think black women are the most beautiful type of women to have ever evolved. Now, I don't mind if other men have different preferences, but if you dare denigrate black women like you just did, you'll end up on my hate list.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: when we are to busy producing non-black children.
'white' + 'white' = 'white' 'white' + Black = Black Black + Black = Black Black + Asian = Black Black + Hispanic of any phenotype = Black Anything + Black = Black
Any questions?
quote:Global Afrikan Supremacy.
Would the oppressed lift up and become the oppressor themselves to become that which they fought so hard against (and died) for so long...in the bigger picta, is no more than just a role reversal my youth....Black People are better than that!
htp
I myself do NOT go along with that "one drop rule" and fail to see where anyone in this thread got that "one drop" crap from what I said above. I am talking immediate as in one parent and one parent. Nowhere did anyone see me type:
'white' + 'white' + 'black' = black and other such nonsense....
Further, no one on this board has been appointed the Ambassador of Blackness and it is disheartening that a youth who says he loves his people so much sounds EXACTLY like the oppressors he rails against....to include using their racist terminology.
htp
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
^^ Some on this forum have expressed doubts about the reputed "High School Junior" who they maintain may be yet another white guy fronting as the stereotypical "black militant" - a common dodge among our 'Aryan' deep thinkers.. Time will tell if this is so.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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Shouldn't you be
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I don't see how thats such an invalid question. You all expect people to take your word over that of the seasoned egyptologist, anthropologist, or archeologist in the field as it concerns matters on North African historiography; I don't see why its such blasphemy to inquire as to what qualifications you all actually have. Because the harsh reality is, that most in the academic world do not agree with any of you. The sentiments expressed on this site are that of a fringe minority. If you all truly believe that the "work" that you all do here is propelling any form paradigm shift your sadly mistaken. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
and it is disheartening that a youth who says he loves his people so much sounds EXACTLY like the oppressors he rails against....to include using their racist terminology.
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