posted
I'm having a discussion about the biology of the Greeks on another forum, and I want to ask, how do we know the black and Asian genes found in the Greeks date back to ancient times? How do we know they weren't the product of mixture with Turks and other people who conquered Greece in historical times?
Posts: 7094 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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^Sometimes I get the feeling that I missed out on a LOT, I wish I had discovered this forum earlier
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Come on man, six years here, and you're still asking the same damn questions?
Sorry, the search engine doesn't work any more.
Use google's site:egyptsearch.com facility. As for your question, it's rather obvious that when observing cranial or skeletal of Anatolian peoples, we were dealing with people, who approximated with African peoples.
At that time, cold adapted traits of Europeans have developed. Regardless, this population shows up, and as foreign admixture with European indigenous women occurs, we see a rather the population that we see today develop. Obviously that is simplified, but it seems like additional maternal ancestry entered when Greeks likely took slaves from Northern Europe.
However, African presence in Greece continued, with not just Egypt, the Phoenicians (who must've included many Africans, at least) but African migrants of today. As we know, most sources state that the uni-parentals we discuss arose during the Neolithic. That is what was dated in studies measuring gene flow:
quote: E1b1b (E3b) originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene (Underhill et al. 2001). E1b1b (E3b) lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers, during the Neolithic expansion (Hammer et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al., 2001). [Cruciani et al., 2004, pp. 1014-1015]
Too lazy to pick out studies. I have access to two academic institutions, and one professional; and yet all three have a shitty search facility. Should try out Google Scholar, but it too isn't perfect.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Also, ask them, why do Greeks think they have more European in them? Sounds rather inane. Eastern groups such as Armenians and Kurds, from what I've seen, are much lighter. That is even affirmed in reflectance studies, where Kurds have much higher albedos than Turks.
Once better sampled are used, with Kurdish pool expanded to include those in Eastern Anatolia and Armenia, I'm certain you'd a lighter population to the East. The Greeks aren't even that light, especially when I know scores of Central Asians and even South/West Asians who were much more pale in complexion. If anything, Turks would've lightened them up, since Turkic people are often disturbingly pale.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Actually, the reason I brought this up is because my opponents think that modern Greeks have little ancient Greek blood. If African and Asian genes in the Greek gene pool can be dated to ancient times, that would refute them.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Actually, the reason I brought this up is because my opponents think that modern Greeks have little ancient Greek blood. If African and Asian genes in the Greek gene pool can be dated to ancient times, that would refute them.
Are these Greeks American or something? Ancient Greeks are MORE Europen now than before due to extensive European maternal gene flow due to Balkan slavery. That has substantially influenced the ancient population. Refer to that: the event was not that different from the trans-Atlantic counterpart, but had greater influence since these women were part of herems.
Remember, according to physical data, Neolithic skeletal samples - specific or general - showed rather strong sub-Saharan affinities. The population were essentially Africans, who mated with European, cold adapted, mates. This coincided with African uni-parental markers which began to enter during the Neolithic. African slave ancestry and what not would likely pass to through the maternal line.
Saying that Greeks today, like Maghrebians, are likely at their height of European-ity. The Aryan pool being attenuated is really bunk. Herodotus was pointing to Africa, as a source of technology, also, Blacks within "Greece' during the early periods of Greece, and he is considered the Father of History. Only retards such as Horemheb would seriously consider that we seek further scholarly support for data that is already translated for a layman population. We are not looking at Old English, or Greek literature!
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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If one calls haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3B) a "black lineage" (which arose in the Horn of Africa 26,000 years ago among what we would certainly describe today as "black" people.) And if one calls J2 an Asian lineage (which it certainly is, a SouthWest Asian "middleEAstern" lineage) then well over 90% of it came in the Meso and Neolithic, which predates classical Greece and Mycenean Greece by several millennium.
Take me to this Forum where you are talking with and I'll be glad to educate the peons.
Posts: 143 | From: The United States Of America (sadly) | Registered: Mar 2009
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BTW there is NO recorded documentation of people from the South ("semites", "North Africans" "Blacks" etc) settling the Southern Balkans in large numbers in historic times. Interestingly enough genetics seems to show very little admixture from the south during historic times (perhaps in a magnitude of 2-3%)
However the same thing cannot be said about Northern Admixture in Greeks. It is a well documented and well recorded fact that he Slavs and (to a lesser degree) Albanians settle amduring the Holy Orthodox Empire (Byzantium).
Also, trying to say Greeks should be in the same ethnic category as certain Europeans like Balts, Finns, Germans etc, and NOT with the people who live just 125 miles across the Aegean from them (The Turks) is simply ideological nonsense.
I can hardly accept Greeks being in the same ethnic or racial group as Icelanders and Swedes and not with other people of the East Mediterranean.
Posts: 143 | From: The United States Of America (sadly) | Registered: Mar 2009
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It's a simple answer: "Hedging your bets." If they fail at substantiating "Black China" they will jump to "Black India." If that one fails too then they will jump to "Black Arabia." If they are met with more failures then, like a parasite jumping from host to host, "Black Greece" will be the new frontier.
By now you should realize there is not a single history these mudhut builders won't claim (not even the Eurocentrist is that embolden and shamless). If you don't believe me, ask them - Is there a history that the Negro cannot legitimately claim? If they say yes, ask for the name of the civilization(s) or culture(s). At least you will have them on record, in the event at some later date, they do claim it. You can then show how dishonest they are.
These Loons are pathetic.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Why anyone in egyptsearch would give a damn about Greece confuses me.
quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: It's a simple answer: "Hedging your bets." If they fail at substantiating "Black China" they will jump to "Black India." If that one fails too then they will jump to "Black Arabia." If they are met with more failures then, like a parasite jumping from host to host, "Black Greece" will be the new frontier.
By now you should realize there is not a single history these mudhut builders won't claim (not even the Eurocentrist is that embolden and shamless). If you don't believe me, ask them - Is there a history that the Negro cannot legitimately claim? If they say yes, ask for the name of the civilization(s) or culture(s). At least you will have them on record, in the event at some later date, they do claim it. You can then show how dishonest they are.
These Loons are pathetic.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Why anyone in egyptsearch would give a damn about Greece confuses me.
Then again, why are *YOU* here? What's your purpose? All you've done in troll the forum beating on strawmen and claims that most, if not all ES posters don't believe and haven't made.
Posts: 2596 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: It's a simple answer: "Hedging your bets." If they fail at substantiating "Black China" they will jump to "Black India." If that one fails too then they will jump to "Black Arabia." If they are met with more failures then, like a parasite jumping from host to host, "Black Greece" will be the new frontier.
By now you should realize there is not a single history these mudhut builders won't claim (not even the Eurocentrist is that embolden and shamless). If you don't believe me, ask them - Is there a history that the Negro cannot legitimately claim? If they say yes, ask for the name of the civilization(s) or culture(s). At least you will have them on record, in the event at some later date, they do claim it. You can then show how dishonest they are.
These Loons are pathetic.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Why anyone in egyptsearch would give a damn about Greece confuses me.
Bitch shut up...Don't Speak unless I tell you that you can speak...Now get back to the Quiz:
1) What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
2) What is a "Negroid/Negro"? What are the cranial features associated with "Negroid", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Negroid" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
3) Are uniparental markers (Y and Mtdna) indicative of phenotype?
4) What is the difference between a tropically adapted individual and a cold adapted individual?
5) How long were anatomically modern humans living in Africa before successfully populating the world, and what non African population is closest cranio facially speaking to early AMH coming from Africa who also harbor the oldest OOA genetic lineages?
Shut up and get to it boy!!
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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You must be a Clyde Winters flunky if you stand here and act like you never heard the claim of a "Black Chine," "Black Arabia" or "Black india" posted on Egyptsearch.com.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Then again, why are *YOU* here? What's your purpose? All you've done in troll the forum beating on strawmen and claims that most, if not all ES posters don't believe and haven't made.
quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: You must be a Clyde Winters flunky if you stand here and act like you never heard the claim of a "Black Chine," "Black Arabia" or "Black india" posted on Egyptsearch.com.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Then again, why are *YOU* here? What's your purpose? All you've done in troll the forum beating on strawmen and claims that most, if not all ES posters don't believe and haven't made.
Moron, how many people actually believes what Winters says? take your arguments to him and man up instead of being a coward and talking about fictitous "Afronuts," no one else here is afraid of Clyde.
Posts: 2596 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic: You must be a Clyde Winters flunky if you stand here and act like you never heard the claim of a "Black Chine," "Black Arabia" or "Black india" posted on Egyptsearch.com.
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Then again, why are *YOU* here? What's your purpose? All you've done in troll the forum beating on strawmen and claims that most, if not all ES posters don't believe and haven't made.
Bitch I said GET TO YOUR DAMN QUIZ...Did I say you can SPEAK BITCH...Im Going to Choke Your ASS Bitch..Shine my Shoes and Answer the quiz. You aint nothing but a Dam 2 dollar Prostitute I tell you when to speak BITCH now Get to your quiz!!!
1) What is a "Caucasian/Caucasoid"? What are the cranial features associated with "Caucasian", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Caucasians" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
2) What is a "Negroid/Negro"? What are the cranial features associated with "Negroid", when and where did these cranial features associated with "Negroid" arise, and amongst what group/population of people?
3) Are uniparental markers (Y and Mtdna) indicative of phenotype?
4) What is the difference between a tropically adapted individual and a cold adapted individual?
5) How long were anatomically modern humans living in Africa before successfully populating the world, and what non African population is closest cranio facially speaking to early AMH coming from Africa who also harbor the oldest OOA genetic lineages?
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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