WHEN: 6-12kya WHERE: Northern regions above 45 lat. In dark regions. Even Mike Jr agrees with this. WHY: no need for UV protection and need to get more vit D. HOW: This is be debated. MK et al - suggest it is via OCA ie Albino genetic defect. Mike Jr says NO!!
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posted
Meanwhile in the real world, we note the following wherein early humans in Europe during the upper paleolithic retained tropical indices similar to recent Africans while the late upper paleolithic and mesolithic samples cluster with recent Europeans...
quote: Body proportions in Late Pleistocene Europe and modern human origins*1
Trenton W. Holliday
Department of Anthropology, The College of William and Mary, P.O. Box 8795, Williamsburg, Virginia 23187-8795, U.S.A.
Abstract
Body proportions covary with climate, apparently as the result of climatic selection. Ontogenetic research and migrant studies have demonstrated that body proportions are largely genetically controlled and are under low selective rates; thus studies of body form can provide evidence for evolutionarily short-term dispersals and/or gene flow. Following these observations, competing models of modern human origins yield different predictions concerning body proportion shifts in Late Pleistocene Europe. Replacement predicts that the earliest modern Europeans will possess “tropical” body proportions (assuming Africa is the center of origin), while Regional Continuity permits only minor shifts in body shape, due to climatic change and/or improved cultural buffering. This study tests these predictions via analyses of osteometric data reflective of trunk height and breadth, limb proportions and relative body mass for samples of Early Upper Paleolithic (EUP), Late Upper Paleolithic (LUP) and Mesolithic (MES) humans and 13 recent African and European populations. Results reveal a clear tendency for the EUP sample to cluster with recent Africans, while LUP and MES samples cluster with recent Europeans. These results refute the hypothesis of local continuity in Europe, and are consistent with an interpretation of elevated gene flow (and population dispersal?) from Africa, followed by subsequent climatic adaptation to colder conditions. These data do not, however, preclude the possibility of some (albeit small) contribution of genes from Neandertals to succeeding populations, as is postulated in Bräuer’s “Afro-European Sapiens” model.
Then we can move forward and examine Cheddar man from th European Mesolithic who is noted to be similar to recent European for the most part while also retaining some indications of tropical adaptations, clear evidence of the African origin of modern Europeans. One will also note that DNA was extracted from Cheddar Man and he has a direct modern day descendant who lives not too far from the site Cheddar Man was found, guess what? The modern descendant is white.
quote:Gough's Cave 1 (Somerset, England): an assessment of body size and shape TRENTON W. HOLLIDAY a1 and STEVEN E. CHURCHILL a2
Abstract
Stature, body mass, and body proportions are evaluated for the Cheddar Man (Gough's Cave 1) skeleton. Like many of his Mesolithic contemporaries, Gough's Cave 1 evinces relatively short estimated stature (ca. 166.2 cm [5′ 5′]) and low body mass (ca. 66 kg [146 lbs]). In body shape, he is similar to recent Europeans for most proportional indices. He differs, however, from most recent Europeans in his high crural index and tibial length/trunk height indices. Thus, while Gough's Cave 1 is characterized by a total morphological pattern considered ‘cold-adapted’, these latter two traits may be interpreted as evidence of a large African role in the origins of anatomically modern Europeans.
Cheddar Mans modern day descendant. Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Still havent found that source yet that says darkerskinned individuals don't suffer from vitamin D deficiencies and that they require less time in the sun to acquire enough UV than lighterskinned individuals? Whats taking so long MK?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Nutritional rickets among children in the United States: review of cases reported between 1986 and 2003
quote:Reports of hypovitaminosis D among adults in the United States have drawn attention to the vitamin D status of children. National data on hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available. Reports from 2000 and 2001 of rickets among children living in North Carolina, Texas, Georgia, and the mid-Atlantic region, however, confirmed the presence of vitamin D deficiency among some US children and prompted new clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence. We reviewed reports of nutritional rickets among US children <18 y of age that were published between 1986 and 2003. We identified 166 cases of rickets in 22 published studies. Patients were 4-54 mo of age, although in 17 studies the maximal age was <30 mo. Approximately 83% of children with rickets were described as African American or black , and 96% were breast-fed. Among children who were breast-fed, only 5% of records indicated vitamin D supplementation during breast-feeding. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recently recommended a minimal intake of 200 IU/d vitamin D for all infants, beginning in the first 2 mo of life. AAP recommends a vitamin D supplement for breast-fed infants who do not consume at least 500 mL of a vitamin D-fortified beverage. Given our finding of a disproportionate number of rickets cases among young, breast-fed, black children, we recommend that education regarding AAP guidelines emphasize the higher risk of rickets among these children. Education should also emphasize the importance of weaning children to a diet adequate in both vitamin D and calcium.
INTRODUCTION
Recent studies reported high rates of hypovitaminosis D among adolescents and adults in the United States, particularly among black subjects ( 1 - 3 ). National data on the prevalence of hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available; however, published reports from 2000 and 2001 of cases of clinical nutritional rickets among young children living in North Carolina ( 4 ), Texas ( 5 ), Georgia ( 6 - 8 ), and the mid-Atlantic region ( 9 ) confirmed the presence of severe vitamin D deficiency among some US children and stimulated renewed interest in the disease and new American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence ( 10 ).
Results
Most studies provided the sex and racial/ethnic distribution of cases, indicating that overall 54% of cases (80 of 148 cases) with reported sex were male and 83% (138 of 166 cases) were African American or black,4%nonwhite (of African American or Indian decent), 6% white, 2% Hispanic, 2% Alaskan native, and 1% Middle Eastern, Asian, or unknown. The 5 studies that reported cases among white children were reports from northern states, ie, Washington, Minnesota, New York, Connecticut, and New Hampshire (18, 23, 27, 30, 32)
Keep on denying it...but I've debunked y'all years ago.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: De-pigmentation
WHEN: 6-12kya WHERE: Northern regions above 45 lat. In dark regions. Even Mike Jr agrees with this. WHY: no need for UV protection and need to get more vit D. HOW: This is be debated. MK et al - suggest it is via OCA ie Albino genetic defect. Mike Jr says NO!!
xyyman, Consider this; There is a huge difference between being "De-pigmented" and having the Autosomal recessive mutution; Albinism.
The Mongrel and INUIT are gracefully de-pigmented relative to their natural African state.
Also note, unlike Europeans, both of the above DO NOT have severely compromised immunity systems which would indicate a natural environmental adaptation over time.
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ Good work Mike. I agree with your Asian theory although I still believe Albinos migrated there from Africa where the first Albinism mutation occurred.
I thought that I had just proven that your theory was the only one that holds water - by disproving the others.
Re-read and let me know if there is a hole in my logic.
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Also note, both of the above DO NOT have severely compromised immunity systems which would indicate a natural environmental adaptation over time.
These Eskimos want to know why they need to take Vitamin D supplements ever since they changed their diets, and why they've developed Vitamin D deficiencies such a rickets etc...if they're environmentally adapted like you say, why?
Come on MK don't let these Eskimos down, they really need your help and want to hear your melanin theory as it pertains to them, why they're supposed to be environmentally adapted but rely heavily on a vitamin D rich diet and if diet is not met supplements are needed. Why Mk, why? LOL
For centuries, Inuit living in Canada's Arctic spent months without sunlight, and lifetimes wearing thick, fur clothing that blocked the sunlight from their dark skin.
Mother Nature provided vitamin D in other ways. Instead of making it through sun exposure, the Inuit got a healthy dose from traditional foods that happen to be rich in vitamin D: the skin of Arctic char; seal liver; the yolks of bird and fish eggs; and seal, walrus and whale blubber.
But as the Arctic has changed, so have eating habits. While seal and char (trout) are still staples in Nunavut's isolated communities, walrus and whale consumption have been in decline for 30 years.
The result is ****vitamin D deficiency***, which surfaces as ***rickets*** , a disease most Canadians might be surprised to hear still exists in Canada. Thirty-one new cases of rickets were discovered in the first five years of Nunavut's creation.
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Also note, both of the above DO NOT have severely compromised immunity systems which would indicate a natural environmental adaptation over time.
These Eskimos want to know why they need to take Vitamin D supplements ever since they changed their diets, and why they've developed Vitamin D deficiencies such a rickets etc...if they're environmentally adapted like you say, why?
Come on MK don't let these Eskimos down, they really need your help and want to hear your melanin theory as it pertains to them, why they're supposed to be environmentally adapted but rely heavily on a vitamin D rich diet and if diet is not met supplements are needed. Why Mk, why? LOL
For centuries, Inuit living in Canada's Arctic spent months without sunlight, and lifetimes wearing thick, fur clothing that blocked the sunlight from their dark skin.
Mother Nature provided vitamin D in other ways. Instead of making it through sun exposure, the Inuit got a healthy dose from traditional foods that happen to be rich in vitamin D: the skin of Arctic char; seal liver; the yolks of bird and fish eggs; and seal, walrus and whale blubber.
But as the Arctic has changed, so have eating habits. While seal and char (trout) are still staples in Nunavut's isolated communities, walrus and whale consumption have been in decline for 30 years.
The result is ****vitamin D deficiency***, which surfaces as ***rickets*** , a disease most Canadians might be surprised to hear still exists in Canada. Thirty-one new cases of rickets were discovered in the first five years of Nunavut's creation.
Once you have proven that those affected with rickets advances to Albinism your Red Herring may gain a little credibility, and I may take your argument seriously.
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^^Lol nice try, but I'm not the one who says rickets leads to albinism so this is not my job to prove, what I have proven is that darkerskinned populations need more vitamin D supplemental medicines than their lighterskinned counterparts in northern latitudes where there is less sun due to the high levels of melanin, and that these lighterskinned individuals require less time in the sun due to this lack of melanin. It has been proven here that the further away from the equator the lighter you are, with the exception of the Eskimo (remember northeast Asians are also pale, something you never discuss) where I have proven that Eskimos who are darker on average than a European but extremely lighter than an African on average retains this level of melanin due to their vitamin D rich diets. I have proven to you that they're not environmentally adapted and rely heavily on this vitamin D intake. Again nice try. lol.
So basically no answers to why they rely so heavily on this viatmin D wherein if were to lose it through their diets suffer from deficiencies, if they're environmentally adapted as you say? Why are they so heavily dependant on this intake? No answers huh? Lol go back in the corner and give it up already you dunce.
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What about the following, no answers or refutations either?
Meninarmer aka MK continues to get trounced as usual. *yawn* too easy.
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Still havent found that source yet that says darkerskinned individuals don't suffer from vitamin D deficiencies and that they require less time in the sun to acquire enough UV than lighterskinned individuals? Whats taking so long MK?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Nutritional rickets among children in the United States: review of cases reported between 1986 and 2003
quote:Reports of hypovitaminosis D among adults in the United States have drawn attention to the vitamin D status of children. National data on hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available. Reports from 2000 and 2001 of rickets among children living in North Carolina, Texas, Georgia, and the mid-Atlantic region, however, confirmed the presence of vitamin D deficiency among some US children and prompted new clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence. We reviewed reports of nutritional rickets among US children <18 y of age that were published between 1986 and 2003. We identified 166 cases of rickets in 22 published studies. Patients were 4-54 mo of age, although in 17 studies the maximal age was <30 mo. Approximately 83% of children with rickets were described as African American or black , and 96% were breast-fed. Among children who were breast-fed, only 5% of records indicated vitamin D supplementation during breast-feeding. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recently recommended a minimal intake of 200 IU/d vitamin D for all infants, beginning in the first 2 mo of life. AAP recommends a vitamin D supplement for breast-fed infants who do not consume at least 500 mL of a vitamin D-fortified beverage. Given our finding of a disproportionate number of rickets cases among young, breast-fed, black children, we recommend that education regarding AAP guidelines emphasize the higher risk of rickets among these children. Education should also emphasize the importance of weaning children to a diet adequate in both vitamin D and calcium.
INTRODUCTION
Recent studies reported high rates of hypovitaminosis D among adolescents and adults in the United States, particularly among black subjects ( 1 - 3 ). National data on the prevalence of hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available; however, published reports from 2000 and 2001 of cases of clinical nutritional rickets among young children living in North Carolina ( 4 ), Texas ( 5 ), Georgia ( 6 - 8 ), and the mid-Atlantic region ( 9 ) confirmed the presence of severe vitamin D deficiency among some US children and stimulated renewed interest in the disease and new American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence ( 10 ).
Results
Most studies provided the sex and racial/ethnic distribution of cases, indicating that overall 54% of cases (80 of 148 cases) with reported sex were male and 83% (138 of 166 cases) were African American or black,4%nonwhite (of African American or Indian decent), 6% white, 2% Hispanic, 2% Alaskan native, and 1% Middle Eastern, Asian, or unknown. The 5 studies that reported cases among white children were reports from northern states, ie, Washington, Minnesota, New York, Connecticut, and New Hampshire (18, 23, 27, 30, 32)
Keep on denying it...but I've debunked y'all years ago.
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: ^^Lol nice try, but I'm not the one who says rickets leads to albinism so this is not my job to prove, what I have proven is that darkerskinned populations need more vitamin D supplemental medicines than their lighterskinned counterparts in northern latitudes where there is less sun due to the high levels of melanin, and that these lighterskinned individuals require less time in the sun due to this lack of melanin. It has been proven here that the further away from the equator the lighter you are, with the exception of the Eskimo (remember northeast Asians are also pale, something you never discuss) where I have proven that Eskimos who are darker on average than a European but extremely lighter than an African on average retains this level of melanin due to their vitamin D rich diets. I have proven to you that they're not environmentally adapted and rely heavily on this vitamin D intake. Again nice try. lol.
So basically no answers to why they rely so heavily on this viatmin D wherein if were to lose it through their diets suffer from deficiencies, if they're environmentally adapted as you say? Why are they so heavily dependant on this intake? No answers huh? Lol go back in the corner and give it up already you dunce.
LOL, how do you disprove the fact that Whites share common symptoms and appearances with Albinos by discussing Rickets when you confirm there is no data supporting Rickets advancing to Albinism?
LMAO, you'd better call up Rasol to help you out. Ever since he's run away you have been floundering around like a fish out of water. Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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Vitamin "D" has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING specific to any particular race. He has you chasing your tail.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: MK - I edited my post to include a picture of a Tarim mummy and a description of same.
Would you please compare the description of a Tarim to a classic type 2 Albino.
Mike, According to the give descriptions, these nomads may have been anywhere between OCA1-OCA2, and perhaps even OCA3 depending on how much breeding they did with others, such as the farmersw they encountered.
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: MK - You are following a Red herring.
Vitamin "D" has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING specific to any particular race. He has you chasing your tail.
LOL, I told this fool that over a year ago. First he was on the "Europeans didn't eat fish" groove. Once this was debunked, in frustration he moved onto the Vitamin D Red Herring.
It's not much and irrelevant but it's all he's got and he is fearful of letting it go. Poor little 4-eyed dude.
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But in truth: Pastoral nomads herd animals and produce animal products. The nomads' diet includes grain and other agricultural products, but they must purchase or trade for these from agriculturists. There is, therefore, always contact between sedentary or semisedentary farmers and nomads. Nomads have often supplemented pastoralism with other economic activities suited to their migratory life-style, e.g., trading, smuggling, and transporting animals and goods.
Please note: THAT IS A DIET LOADED WITH VITAMIN "D"!!!
The lion:Mike, question, what were these foods :LOADED with vitamin D?
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
Well what about SUNSHINE you say:
Quote: The climate of Central Asia is continental-dry, with plenty days of sunshine, short mild winter, early sunny spring, long hot summer and mild and most enjoyable autumn.
CONCLUSION:
WHITES COULD NOT HAVE TURNED WHITE IN CENTRAL ASIA EITHER!!! [/QB]
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They fled to the caves because the last ice age came suddenly. The last ice age was an extinction level event.This is supported by the fact that some mammoths have been found frozen with food in their mouths indicating a quick freeze.
Also you must remember that the ice age lasted for years and many of the cave entrances were probably impassable until the earthquakes that occured after 2000.
They would not have lost their hair. The build up of melanin in their bodies would have migrated to the hair, since it would not be distributed in the skin.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Haha. You can tell when a person is backpedaling because a topic on melanin is suddenly moved around Vitamin D and rickets, and Bears.
LOL, what is an Albinoist? Is that even a word? Whatever! I am no Albinoist. I am however a recently enrolled fan of melanin. How could one not be? Whites are huge melanin fans also!
Clyde, I agree with the cave theory HOWEVER, why did they resort to cave living IF They were black and protected from radiation? I can see a temporary shelter from some surface level catastrophic event such as the 1908 meteor strike in Tunguska, Siberia which yielded an explosive energy roughly on order of 60 A-bombs. This type of major high energy particle event could definitely explain why Jews have so many genetic defects, and would also explain WHY the inhabitants would flee to the caves and remain there for so long.
Also, following thousands of years of living in a dark cave, wouldn't the inhabitants shed their hair since it would no longer be needed for UV protection as is shown in your example photos?
My guess is that they were Albino before they entered the caves, and that is the reason why they entered them in the first place. The caves provided them protection from the Sun OR they were forced to migrate there to escape some extinction level event. Other events which could cause massive genetic damage are; Star Nova, Nebula Collision, outer planetoid collision such as we just witnessed on Jupiter, all of which shoot off massive lethal gamma and x-ray particles. These particles would easily cause mass extinction and the only way of escaping the bombardment is to find a deep dark cavern.
Otherwise, I don't see why a black people would permanently shelter themselves in a cave.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] For the more astute. What can we learn or infer from this chart.
I will start off. The indigenous people of Egypt and South African are of the same color. Why. ?
xyyman - Come-on Dude, that is a map of WHAT???? I mean really, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT REPRESENT??? The ANCIENT WORLD - HELL NO!!! The MODERN WORLD - HELL NO!!! i.e. There are NO dark skinned people in the North??? That is just plain stupid - get a grip!!!
What, every-time some dumb-assed White boy comes out with some bullsh1t, you just lap it up without even thinking about it?
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the Lion; Could you PLEASE stay out of this - please!!! The stupidness of you question indicates that - as usual - you can't or won't read what is posted. So you ask a dumb-assed question that has already been answered.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: the Lion; Could you PLEASE stay out of this - please!!! The stupidness of you question indicates that - as usual - you can't or won't read what is posted. So you ask a dumb-assed question that has already been answered.
Mike, milk in Western countries is fortified. The only food that has significant levels of vitamin D is fish. So if you're saying that Central Asian Nomads had regular supplementation of their diets by trading for fish you are an idiot. You didn't answer the question because it exposes your flawed reasoning.
yes grasshopper, even MK knows that Asians were on the planet before the white man
I am NOT saying that there were no people living in Caves in Europe. What I AM saying is that they were NOT White people.
We know that Neanderthal lived in Caves when possible, so probably did Grimaldi - note his Cave paintings.
But these were all Black people!
Note the evidence!
Eulau, Germany. The 4,600-year-old graves
Lichtenstein Cave Germany (3,000 ya) same people.
In England - Cheddar Man is the name given to the remains of a human male found in Gough's Cave in Cheddar Gorge, Somerset, England. The remains date to approximately 12,700 B.C. It is Britain’s oldest complete human skeleton - his Mtdna is U5 - also found in the Lichtenstein Cave.
But even if they were White, it still wouldn't work. If they stayed in their caves - they would STARVE. They had to go out to find food.
Once in the Sunlight, if nothing else, the reflected Sunlight from Snow would be extremely strong.
Note: White people get very bad Sunburns from Sun reflected off of Snow.
And as all the White people have said: Whites only need a few minutes of this.
So you see, there is just no way for it to work. Whites came North as Whites - Albinos!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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So what did these ancient White people look like?
We don't have to guess, there are lots of sources.
Tarim Mummy - 1,800 B.C. Many of the mummies have been found in very good condition, owing to the dryness of the desert and the desiccation it produced in the corpses. The mummies share many typical Caucasoid body features (elongated bodies, angular faces, recessed eyes), and many of them have their hair physically intact, ranging in color from blond to red to deep brown, and generally long, curly and braided.
Herodotus - The Budini of Gelonus (east-central Ukraine), whom he describes as (they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair).
The Greek writer "Xenophanes" circa 500 B.C. is quoted as writing quote: Thracian's say that theirs (Gods) have blue eyes and red hair"
Boudicca, the elected queen of the Iceni in Britain, was described as huge of frame and terrifying in aspect, with a mass of bright red hair that fell to her knees.
The Roman author Tacitus commented on the "red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia (Scotland)", which he connected with some red haired Gaulish tribes of Germanic and Belgic relation.
What do ALL of these Ancient White people have in common?
ALBINISM!!!
The gene OCA2, when in a variant form, the gene causes the pink eye color and hypopigmentation common in human albinism. Different SNPs within OCA2 are strongly associated with blue and green eyes.
Hair color is the pigmentation of hair follicles due to two types of melanin, eumelanin and pheomelanin. Generally, if more melanin is present, the color of the hair is darker; if less melanin is present, the hair is lighter. Blond hair can have almost any proportion of phaeomelanin and eumelanin, but both only in small amounts. More phaeomelanin creates a more golden blond color, and more eumelanin creates an ash blond.
Blond hair is common in many European peoples, but rare among peoples of non-European origin. Many children born with blond hair develop darker hair as they age.
Red hair ranges from vivid strawberry shades to deep auburn and burgundy, and is the rarest fully distinct hair color on earth. It is caused by a variation in the Mc1r gene and believed to be recessive. Red hair has the highest amounts of phaeomelanin and usually low levels of eumelanin, and is the rarest natural human hair color.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Clarification, Before I get a dumb question on this.
Quote from above: "The Roman author Tacitus commented on the "red hair and large limbs of the inhabitants of Caledonia (Scotland)", which he connected with some red haired Gaulish tribes of Germanic and Belgic relation."
The Huns were a nomadic pastoral people from Eastern Asia, they invaded Europe in about 370 A.D. and created an enormous empire; which reached as far west as Germany. They were possibly the descendants of the Xiongnu who had been northern neighbors of China three hundred years before.
The Huns may have stimulated the Great Migration, a contributing factor in the collapse of the Roman Empire. They formed a unified empire under Attila the Hun, who died in 453 A.D; their empire broke up the next year.
The Migration Period, also called the Barbarian Invasions or Völkerwanderung (German for "wandering of the peoples"), was a period of human migration that occurred roughly between the years 300 to 700 A.D. It marked the transition from Late Antiquity to the Early Middle Ages. These movements were catalyzed by profound changes within both the Roman Empire and the so-called 'barbarian frontier'. Migrating peoples during this period included the Goths, Vandals, Bulgars, Alans, Suebi, Frisians, and Franks, among other Germanic, and Slavic tribes.
The migration-period peoples who would coalesce into a "German" ethnicity were the Saxones, Frisii, Franci, Thuringii, Alamanni and Bavarii. By the 800s A.D, the territory of modern Germany, had been united under the rule of Charlemagne. Much of what is now Eastern Germany remained Slavonic-speaking (Sorbs and Veleti).Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: They fled to the caves because the last ice age came suddenly. The last ice age was an extinction level event.This is supported by the fact that some mammoths have been found frozen with food in their mouths indicating a quick freeze.
Also you must remember that the ice age lasted for years and many of the cave entrances were probably impassable until the earthquakes that occured after 2000.
They would not have lost their hair. The build up of melanin in their bodies would have migrated to the hair, since it would not be distributed in the skin.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Haha. You can tell when a person is backpedaling because a topic on melanin is suddenly moved around Vitamin D and rickets, and Bears.
LOL, what is an Albinoist? Is that even a word? Whatever! I am no Albinoist. I am however a recently enrolled fan of melanin. How could one not be? Whites are huge melanin fans also!
Clyde, I agree with the cave theory HOWEVER, why did they resort to cave living IF They were black and protected from radiation? I can see a temporary shelter from some surface level catastrophic event such as the 1908 meteor strike in Tunguska, Siberia which yielded an explosive energy roughly on order of 60 A-bombs. This type of major high energy particle event could definitely explain why Jews have so many genetic defects, and would also explain WHY the inhabitants would flee to the caves and remain there for so long.
Also, following thousands of years of living in a dark cave, wouldn't the inhabitants shed their hair since it would no longer be needed for UV protection as is shown in your example photos?
My guess is that they were Albino before they entered the caves, and that is the reason why they entered them in the first place. The caves provided them protection from the Sun OR they were forced to migrate there to escape some extinction level event. Other events which could cause massive genetic damage are; Star Nova, Nebula Collision, outer planetoid collision such as we just witnessed on Jupiter, all of which shoot off massive lethal gamma and x-ray particles. These particles would easily cause mass extinction and the only way of escaping the bombardment is to find a deep dark cavern.
Otherwise, I don't see why a black people would permanently shelter themselves in a cave.
Yes, that is plausible. Although, if the entrance/exits were blocked, what would they have eaten all that time? Oh, LOL..I see the picture you have there. They became cannibals. Interesting. But was this enough to sustain them? Are there any studies of the dietary effects of a long term cannibalistic only diet minus any kind of veggies? That could very well explain their present "Kill All with pleasure and glee" mindset.
Still, I'm not convinced the transformation from black to white could occur in that short of a time span. Thousands of years exclusively living in a deep cave represents 15, maybe 20 generations, or more. Their reproduction ability would have been greatly impaired within 3-4 generations and major, major defects would have begun around that time also.
This merits more study. Have these caves yielded any graves, bones, paintings, etc.?
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I have no other choice but to rely on “white boys” to provide the data because unfortunately there aren’t that many of us doing this kind of work. We can at least “look” at the data.
So to continue: The map is a correlation of UV distribution and hue of INDIGENOUS peoples of the world. Looking at it “from face value “a few things stand out.
1. The people of far north(Europe) are exposed to less UV and as expected they are light skin/white/depigmented. This applies to Asians also. 2. The people around the same latitude on BOTH sides of the equator (AFRICA) have the same amt of UV radiation and skin tone. . .as expected. Thus Sans and other southern Africans are similar in color to many Egyptians and other Saharans. A mixture of light brown/dark brown and black peoples.
BUT the kicker is : north East Asians, around the Bering Strait are very light. Yet, Central Americans are relatively dark!!!!!!
What is the significance???? Put on your thinking caps.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] For the more astute. What can we learn or infer from this chart.
I will start off. The indigenous people of Egypt and South African are of the same color. Why. ?
xyyman - Come-on Dude, that is a map of WHAT???? I mean really, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT REPRESENT??? The ANCIENT WORLD - HELL NO!!! The MODERN WORLD - HELL NO!!! i.e. There are NO dark skinned people in the North??? That is just plain stupid - get a grip!!!
What, every-time some dumb-assed White boy comes out with some bullsh1t, you just lap it up without even thinking about it?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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They had drawings in the caves because they were originally temples.
Once the ice came they would not have been able to exit the caves due to the cold.
Due to the cold and lack of fire wood they would have went deeper into the caves.They may have been able to keep warm by burning mainly lichens.
At first they may have eaten any animals they took into the caves with them.
Over time they would have ate what ever they could find in the caves. There are many sources of food in caves. Over time man would have developed ways to manage the food resources to provide enough food to feed themselves. Eventually they may have eaten each other to provide other food resources.
As you probably know archaeologists have found human bones in caves that appear to have been the result of human exploitation.
Cannibalism may have been common among some ancient populations
quote:
Anthropologists such as Tim D. White suggest that cannibalism was common in human societies prior to the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic during the Middle Paleolithic, based on the large amount of “butchered human" bones found in Neanderthal and other Middle Paleolithic sites.[18] Cannibalism in the Middle Paleolithic may have occurred because of food shortages.[19] However it is also possible that Middle Paleolithic cannabalism occurred for religious reasons which would coincide with the development of religious practices thought to have occurred during the Upper Paleolithic.[20][21]
Nonetheless it remains possible that Middle Paleolithic societies never practiced cannibalism and that the damage to recovered human bones was either the result of ritual post-mortem bone cleaning or predation by carnivores such as Saber tooth cats, lions and hyenas.[21]
Have you ever noticed how Europeans can think of the most horrible creatures in their imagination and put them in books and movies. Creatures that other populations can not imagine.
I believe that these creatures may be race memories, Europeans access from the memories they have of their former experiences in the caves.
As pointed out above there are other food resources in caves but, some people may have wanted to use humans as a source of food. .
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: They fled to the caves because the last ice age came suddenly. The last ice age was an extinction level event.This is supported by the fact that some mammoths have been found frozen with food in their mouths indicating a quick freeze.
Also you must remember that the ice age lasted for years and many of the cave entrances were probably impassable until the earthquakes that occured after 2000.
They would not have lost their hair. The build up of melanin in their bodies would have migrated to the hair, since it would not be distributed in the skin.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Haha. You can tell when a person is backpedaling because a topic on melanin is suddenly moved around Vitamin D and rickets, and Bears.
LOL, what is an Albinoist? Is that even a word? Whatever! I am no Albinoist. I am however a recently enrolled fan of melanin. How could one not be? Whites are huge melanin fans also!
Clyde, I agree with the cave theory HOWEVER, why did they resort to cave living IF They were black and protected from radiation? I can see a temporary shelter from some surface level catastrophic event such as the 1908 meteor strike in Tunguska, Siberia which yielded an explosive energy roughly on order of 60 A-bombs. This type of major high energy particle event could definitely explain why Jews have so many genetic defects, and would also explain WHY the inhabitants would flee to the caves and remain there for so long.
Also, following thousands of years of living in a dark cave, wouldn't the inhabitants shed their hair since it would no longer be needed for UV protection as is shown in your example photos?
My guess is that they were Albino before they entered the caves, and that is the reason why they entered them in the first place. The caves provided them protection from the Sun OR they were forced to migrate there to escape some extinction level event. Other events which could cause massive genetic damage are; Star Nova, Nebula Collision, outer planetoid collision such as we just witnessed on Jupiter, all of which shoot off massive lethal gamma and x-ray particles. These particles would easily cause mass extinction and the only way of escaping the bombardment is to find a deep dark cavern.
Otherwise, I don't see why a black people would permanently shelter themselves in a cave.
Yes, that is plausible. Although, if the entrance/exits were blocked, what would they have eaten all that time? Oh, LOL..I see the picture you have there. They became cannibals. Interesting. But was this enough to sustain them? Are there any studies of the dietary effects of a long term cannibalistic only diet minus any kind of veggies? That could very well explain their present "Kill All with pleasure and glee" mindset.
Still, I'm not convinced the transformation from black to white could occur in that short of a time span. Thousands of years exclusively living in a deep cave represents 15, maybe 20 generations, or more. Their reproduction ability would have been greatly impaired within 3-4 generations and major, major defects would have begun around that time also.
This merits more study. Have these caves yielded any graves, bones, paintings, etc.?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: ^^Lol nice try, but I'm not the one who says rickets leads to albinism so this is not my job to prove, what I have proven is that darkerskinned populations need more vitamin D supplemental medicines than their lighterskinned counterparts in northern latitudes where there is less sun due to the high levels of melanin, and that these lighterskinned individuals require less time in the sun due to this lack of melanin. It has been proven here that the further away from the equator the lighter you are, with the exception of the Eskimo (remember northeast Asians are also pale, something you never discuss) where I have proven that Eskimos who are darker on average than a European but extremely lighter than an African on average retains this level of melanin due to their vitamin D rich diets. I have proven to you that they're not environmentally adapted and rely heavily on this vitamin D intake. Again nice try. lol.
So basically no answers to why they rely so heavily on this viatmin D wherein if were to lose it through their diets suffer from deficiencies, if they're environmentally adapted as you say? Why are they so heavily dependant on this intake? No answers huh? Lol go back in the corner and give it up already you dunce.
LOL, how do you disprove the fact that Whites share common symptoms and appearances with Albinos by discussing Rickets when you confirm there is no data supporting Rickets advancing to Albinism?
First of all you're miles away from proving Europeans are albinos. Just because they share symptoms doesn't make it so, sorry, just like East Asians who you are scared to discuss are also just as pale as Europeans. Secondly, where did I dispute that "whites" share common symptoms with albinos by discussing rickets? You semi-illiterate strawman jackass. Stop making things up, or perhaps your reading comprehension or lack thereof really has you thinking I did.
Again for the thousandth time and unrefuted after all of these years, the point about rickets is that darkerskinned populations with their high level of melanin are at a disadvantage in climates where there is less sunlight, hence suffer from vitamin D deficiencies such as rickets , and the only way that humans in the past were able to cope with this was to become lighter (East Asians, Europeans) in order to allow more sun to get passed their highly melanized skin or to compensate somewhat with a rich vitamin D diet, like the Eskimos who are extremely dependent on this vitamin D intake , and who are not that much darker than Europeans to begin with.
What's taking you so long to disprove this if its false like you say?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Tried posting the pic but it is too large.
I have no other choice but to rely on “white boys” to provide the data because unfortunately there aren’t that many of us doing this kind of work. We can at least “look” at the data.
So to continue: The map is a correlation of UV distribution and hue of INDIGENOUS peoples of the world. Looking at it “from face value “a few things stand out.
1. The people of far north(Europe) are exposed to less UV and as expected they are light skin/white/depigmented. This applies to Asians also. 2. The people around the same latitude on BOTH sides of the equator (AFRICA) have the same amt of UV radiation and skin tone. . .as expected. Thus Sans and other southern Africans are similar in color to many Egyptians and other Saharans. A mixture of light brown/dark brown and black peoples.
BUT the kicker is : north East Asians, around the Bering Strait are very light. Yet, Central Americans are relatively dark!!!!!!
What is the significance???? Put on your thinking caps.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] For the more astute. What can we learn or infer from this chart.
I will start off. The indigenous people of Egypt and South African are of the same color. Why. ?
xyyman - Come-on Dude, that is a map of WHAT???? I mean really, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT REPRESENT??? The ANCIENT WORLD - HELL NO!!! The MODERN WORLD - HELL NO!!! i.e. There are NO dark skinned people in the North??? That is just plain stupid - get a grip!!!
What, every-time some dumb-assed White boy comes out with some bullsh1t, you just lap it up without even thinking about it?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: BUT the kicker is : north East Asians, around the Bering Strait are very light. Yet, Central Americans are relatively dark!!!!!!
What is the significance???? Put on your thinking caps.
The significance here it that Native Americans migrated into the Americas before East Asians lost their pigmentation. Plain and simple.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: michael1010 - Your turn, the facts are in front of you.
Debunk!
You know, like the thread title says: The Melanin Scholars: Let's Debunk these Fools
The melanin pseudo scholars have been debunked. Since it's been proven that highly melanized skin is at a clear disadvantage in lower UV environments compared to those with less pigment. Debunked.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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MAYBE, but check the time line. Does it correlate.
I was thinking that . . . .
They REGAINED there pigmentation. Now that could blow the Albino Theory out of the water.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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MAYBE, but check the time line. Does it correlate.
I was thinking that . . . .
They REGAINED there pigmentation. Now that could blow the Albino Theory out of the water.
There is DNA evidence from remains that matches with modern native Americans from 13,000 B.C.E. (15kya), hence were most likely in the Americas before the East Asians lost their pigmentation. Agriculture arose in East Asia 7,500 B.C.E. a few thousand years before it reached Europe from southwest Asia, which is compatible with the genes selected for pale skin being identified around this same time.
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: LOL, I told this fool that over a year ago. First he was on the "Europeans didn't eat fish" groove. Once this was debunked, in frustration he moved onto the Vitamin D Red Herring.
Stop making things up to suit your pseudo nonsense.
For the intelligent individuals on this board, this clown is talking about the point (again for the hundredth time) about eating fish which was included in early humans hunter gatherers diet, is the same situation as the Eskimos who never adopted agriculture and depend on their high intake of Vitamin D through their hunter gatherers diet (as noted if to change their diets develop vitamin D deficiencies, which has recently happened and are now being encouraged to take supplements), I.e. meats, fish, whale blubber etc...this is the same case in early Europe. Early humans in Europe were also hunter gatherers and consumed similar diets as Eskimos I.e., rich in vitamin D, but when agriculture spread into Europe, Europeans left this hunter gatherer diet and lifestyle which had previously provided them with a lot of vitamin D, to an agricultural diet wherein their was not enough vitamin D in it, hence with melanized skin without a diet of vitamin D and in environments where there is less sun, these individuals became lighter by natural selection and spread throughout the population probably through genetic drift and sexual selection. With their diet rich in vitamin D through a hunter gatherers diet, modern day Eskimos and early Europeans had no need to be pale or to become lighter than they were, unless they lose/lost this diet which happened in Europe, but not the arctic. Eskimos are still hunter gatherers to this day, Europeans left their hunter gatherer lifestyle thousands of years ago.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: The melanin pseudo scholars have been debunked. Since it's been proven that highly melanized skin is at a clear disadvantage in lower UV environments compared to those with less pigment. Debunked.
I must have missed that part, could you go over it again SLOWLY, I don't want to miss it this time.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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No need to get all hot and huffy about whta I actually know and experience. Scientific research is often done properly, but very often it is badly done and comes up with bogus results.
I repeat: I know lots and lots of people in a very mosquito-challenged area and I don't know anybody with sickle-cell disease. Nothing beats experience--you know.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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You are completely impotent without Rasol covering your front. When we began this debate it was Rasol who came forward with REAL debatable papers that actually helped me tremendously to getting closer to this truth. Unfortunately, after I smashed that European hogwash, your leader ran away and left you alone. You've been clinging to this Vitamin D Herring ever since, and this too has long been refuted.
Than you attempted to use that hunter/gatherer argument, and that Europeans didn't have access to foodstuffs, goat's milk, and animal liver. We smashed this argument by posting scientific papers showing they had access to ALL of the above.
Your most recent desperate argument is that Asians are pale too, so what about them and Europeans. Well MatterOverMind, Albinism is comprised of many other symptoms other than paleness, right? What are they? I'm sure you know them all by now, 1 years later.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ MatterOverMind,
You are completely impotent without Rasol covering your front. When we began this debate it was Rasol who came forward with REAL debatable papers that actually helped me tremendously to getting closer to this truth.
Rasol debunked you, as have I and am currently doing now.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Unfortunately, after I smashed that European hogwash,
Only in your head.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: your leader ran away and left you alone.
Actually he left well after you were debunked, and he is not my leader but I do take what he has to say with ten times more credibility than you, because he was able to back up everything he says, on the other hand you never do.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: You've been clinging to this Vitamin D Herring ever since, and this too has long been refuted.
Herring and refuted? How many times must you be told that just because you SAY something is refuted doesn't make it so?
How is it a herring that darkerskinned populations suffer from vitamin D deficiencies more so than their lighterskin counterparts due to their highly mealnized skin, and due to this fact of higly melanized skin protecting against harmful UV rays essentially being natures sunscreen, is also why the lowly melanized individuals require less time in the sun to allow enough UV rays into the skin for synthesis of vitamin D since they don't have all that melanin blocking their skin, and so lighterskin is selected for in northern climates?
Where have you refuted this? You never have, all you do is jump around in circles. Lol, I have been asking you for a source for years now, but yet to receive one, go figure.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Than you attempted to use that hunter/gatherer argument, and that Europeans didn't have access to foodstuffs, goat's milk, and animal liver.
Sorry kid, but never said they didnt have access to "foodstuffs" that couldve compensated for their lack of vitamin D, aince as explained they were fricken hunter gatherers for millenia before they adopted agriculture, so of course the food sources were available you dunce, but what happened was they adopted agriculture and left this hunter gatherers lifestyle which in turn provided their communites with more food and their population increased ten fold due to this new abundance of agriculture you nitwit.
Btw, goats milk? Really? Are you seriously going to use this argument again knowing the goat wasn't domesticated in Europe until after agriculture reached Europe? Jeez.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: We smashed this argument by posting scientific papers showing they had access to ALL of the above.
You never smash anything but your own brain.
Anyway, great we know they had access to the food thwy were eating it for millenia, now show me any papers that say that after Europeans adopted agriculture they kept up intesively with their former hunter gatherers lifestyle, will you?
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Your most recent desperate argument is that Asians are pale too, so what about them and Europeans.
It's actually not a new argument, you try to make it out to seem that way, because you have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time, in previous debates all that I am saying now has already been said, you just never fully address anything to have noticed, you then disappear for months and come back spouting the same nonsense you were already debunked on, saying you actually debunked us. LOL
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Well MatterOverMind, Albinism is comprised of many other symptoms other than paleness, right? What are they? I'm sure you know them all by now, 1 years later.
Ok? What's your point? Are you trying to bring this study back up wherein I made you look like a jackass, because it states that albinism is relatively common in "Caucasian" populations and in Japan, which right off the bat relatively common means not everybody has it, so your premise that all "Caucasians" are albinos is mooted by your own source (over a year ago), or the part where they say it might exist not only in Japan but all over the world as well? Lmao
quote:The A481T mutant allele is relatively common in the Caucasian population as well as in Japan, indicating that a number of subclinical patients of OCA2 might exist not only in Japan, but also all over the world.
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quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: The melanin pseudo scholars have been debunked. Since it's been proven that highly melanized skin is at a clear disadvantage in lower UV environments compared to those with less pigment. Debunked.
I must have missed that part, could you go over it again SLOWLY, I don't want to miss it this time.
Can you read? It has been proven time and again, that highly melanized skin is at a clear disadvantage in lower UV environments compared to those with less pigment, hence melanin is not superior in this low UV environment, no need for it, melanin theory debunked.
1) Melanized skin is superior to de-melanized skin in tropical or high UV environments.
2)De-melanized skin is superior to melanized skin in environments where there is less UV due to the incessant need of Vitamin D by anatomically modern humans which is naturally acquired by UV rays hitting the skin activating synthesis of Vitamin D. Which is otherwise prolonged by melanized skin, and results in deficiencies.
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: Nutritional rickets among children in the United States: review of cases reported between 1986 and 2003
quote:Reports of hypovitaminosis D among adults in the United States have drawn attention to the vitamin D status of children. National data on hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available. Reports from 2000 and 2001 of rickets among children living in North Carolina, Texas, Georgia, and the mid-Atlantic region, however, confirmed the presence of vitamin D deficiency among some US children and prompted new clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence. We reviewed reports of nutritional rickets among US children <18 y of age that were published between 1986 and 2003. We identified 166 cases of rickets in 22 published studies. Patients were 4-54 mo of age, although in 17 studies the maximal age was <30 mo. Approximately 83% of children with rickets were described as African American or black , and 96% were breast-fed. Among children who were breast-fed, only 5% of records indicated vitamin D supplementation during breast-feeding. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recently recommended a minimal intake of 200 IU/d vitamin D for all infants, beginning in the first 2 mo of life. AAP recommends a vitamin D supplement for breast-fed infants who do not consume at least 500 mL of a vitamin D-fortified beverage. Given our finding of a disproportionate number of rickets cases among young, breast-fed, black children, we recommend that education regarding AAP guidelines emphasize the higher risk of rickets among these children. Education should also emphasize the importance of weaning children to a diet adequate in both vitamin D and calcium.
INTRODUCTION
Recent studies reported high rates of hypovitaminosis D among adolescents and adults in the United States, particularly among black subjects ( 1 - 3 ). National data on the prevalence of hypovitaminosis D among children are not yet available; however, published reports from 2000 and 2001 of cases of clinical nutritional rickets among young children living in North Carolina ( 4 ), Texas ( 5 ), Georgia ( 6 - 8 ), and the mid-Atlantic region ( 9 ) confirmed the presence of severe vitamin D deficiency among some US children and stimulated renewed interest in the disease and new American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) clinical guidelines to prevent its occurrence ( 10 ).
Results
Most studies provided the sex and racial/ethnic distribution of cases, indicating that overall 54% of cases (80 of 148 cases) with reported sex were male and 83% (138 of 166 cases) were African American or black,4%nonwhite (of African American or Indian decent), 6% white, 2% Hispanic, 2% Alaskan native, and 1% Middle Eastern, Asian, or unknown. The 5 studies that reported cases among white children were reports from northern states, ie, Washington, Minnesota, New York, Connecticut, and New Hampshire (18, 23, 27, 30, 32)
Keep on denying it...but I've debunked y'all years ago.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Mindless one - While I was waiting for your response; I remembered that you had commented on how "PALE" those Northern East Asians were. So here are some photos of those "Pale" Northern East Asians.
Inuit Women, photo by Edward Curti
Chief of the Attu Islanders
ALTAIC people
CHUKCHI people
DOLGAN people
Koryak people
Nanai people
I would like to finish with THIS!!! "REAL" Inuits - aren't they??? I wonder if this is what Mindless had in mind. I guess you can't really be East Asian in Mindless ones mind, unless you have a White daddy or momma. Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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