posted
Correct me if I am wrong but the cultures that are most similar to Egypt are actually to the South rather than Semitic or European.
From Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex of Egypt we find the closest related peoples as we travel down the Nile rather than into Libya, Palestine or into Europe.
The invasion theories and master race concepts have been absolutely shattered by actual evidence.
RIP
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
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The Sahara and the Sudan seem to have provided a major source for the genesis of Egyptian civilization contributing many of its unique elements. Nile Valley civilisation is based upon the culture of indigenous Africans who concentrated into the Nile from the Western Sahara, northern Sudan, and the Horn of Africa. Thus, the oldest examples of mummification come from the southwestern sahara; the oldest example of pharaonic kingship come from Ta-Seti; the oldest examples of heiroglyphic writing from Ta-Seti and Ta-Shemu (Upper Egypt) and are based on the rock art from the once wet sahara dating back to before the Nile Valley was populated.
Also, Ancient Egyptian religion closer to the religion of African regions than to Mesopotamia, Europe or the Middle East.
Posts: 98 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Feb 2010
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^ Correct Khufu. This is an established FACT in Egyptology yet Euronuts are in denial of all this. Speaking of which...
quote:Originally posted by Spiralbrains: Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
Sorry, but your erroneous notions were already corrected in this thread here. The precursors to hieroglyphs were found in the Sudan and Sahara among rock pictographs. The complex cemetery or tombs were also first found in the Sudan associated with the cult of divine kingship also African in origin. And you must be joking about mudbrick as that is the most common architecture in Africa other than huts. The earliest evidence of mudbrick by the way is in the Khartoum Mesolithic of Sudan.
For more info you can go here.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: It has been established by mainstream academia that proto-hieroglyphs of the Nile Valley predate Sumerian Cuneiform by several centuries. Indeed, one could argue the other way around-- that Egyptian influenced Sumerian writing!
He [Gunther Dreyer] concluded his presentation by noting similarities between specific Egyptian and Mesopotamian objects and suggesting that perhaps there is an initial influence of Egyptian writing on Mesopotamia because there are signs on Mesopotamian objects that are only "readable" from the standpoint of the Egyptian language, but not the Mesopotamian language. - Mario Beatty, "Too Much Stuff": Recent Finds in Predynastic Egypt
By the way, the earliest proto-hieroglyphs are to be found in Sayalah and Qustul sites which correspond to the 'Nubian' kingdom of Ta-Seti.
quote:Originally posted by Spiralbrains: Basalt statuette known as 'MacGregor Man', Ancient Egyptian, predynastic period, 3250 B.C.
Looks like a sculpture i would expect from Sumer.
How is the statue above Sumerian-like? One simple-minded poster claims the eyebrows are thick, yet thick eyebrows alone don't mean anything. Besides, in Sumerian art the eyebrows meet in the middle to form a kind of 'uni-brow'. Here the brows are totally separate by a space in between. Also, Egyptians during dynastic period are depicted with thick eyebrows along with black skins. Sumerian men wore round hats, but theirs were a little taller with thick brims to them. The statue above is more so a tight fitting cap the kind worn by gods like Ptah or high ranking Egyptians or even Puntite men further south in Africa. The full beard means nothing since many men including Africans can wear full beards. But notice what the man is wearing. It might be hard to see because of the dark colored stone and poor lighting, but the figure is wearing a penis-sheath. Such penis sheaths were common attire of predynastic Egyptian men and is also worn by 'tribal' Africans today further south in the Sudan and Ethiopia.
As for the overall style of the statue. It looks not much different from other Nagada statue of a male figure, one without a penis sheath.
And here is a reconstruction from Egyptologists of what the statue above looked like with its head as well as what the entire Naqada settlement may have looked like.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I think the artifacts presented reveal that Egypt owes some of its debt to Sumerian and or Near Eastern influence.
The motif of the 'hero' wrestling with beasts was at first thought to be Sumerian also as that is where it frequently appeared...
Until that it was discovered in Saharan rock art dating back thousands of years earlier.
Details from a tomb painting from Hierakonpolis, from prehistoric Egypt's Naqada culture. A new study suggests the Naqada people, the earlier Badarians and the later Egyptians were essentially the same group. The painting shows a procession of boats, one of which has an awning "sheltering a figure who is probably the ruler and the person for whom the tomb was built," writes Toby Wilkinson in the book Predynastic Egypt. The artwork shows "the ruler engaged in various activities—including a ritual water-borne procession, perhaps an ancestor of some of the later festivals of kingship," Wilkinson writes, and "sought to express the multiple roles of the king in relation to his people and the supernatural." Remarkable, he adds, "is the number of features characteristic of classic Egyptian art," present already 300 years before pharaohs inaugurated classic Egyptian civilization by unifying the land around 3,100 B.C. A man holding apart two wild animals in the lower left is a type of "hero" or "master of the beasts" figure found in other artworks of its time, Wilkinson adds.
By the way, the Narmer Palette dates back to around 3,100 B.C. whereas the Uruk cylinder seal dates back to around 3,000 B.C. Thus the Narmer palette with its depiction of 'serpopards' is a full century earlier than the Uruk one. Add this to Egypt's trade with Mesopotamia and it is more than coincidence.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Behold the Narmer Palette. The very symbolic including totemic nature of the palette as well as the scenes and rituals they depict are very African.
In both sides of the palette at the top there is Narmer’s name a totemic one of the catfish flanked by two water buffaloes with the faces of women, likely protective goddesses.
^ On this side above is shown a procession with Narmer wearing the deshret or red crown that resembles a Nile lily with his sandal bearer behind him. Because kings in Africa were considered divine, the fact that he is marching barefoot means his is consecrating the ground. In front of Narmer is either a woman or a man unusually dressed in feminine attire wearing a dress that covers his chest as well as long hair, probably a wig. Because of this, many think it is a shaman. In front of this person is four standard bearers. In the first standard is a totem of a placenta, the second bears a jackal reclined on something, and the front two are birds perhaps hawks. In front of these are decapitated bodies lined up in a row. Below in the second register are two leonine creatures with long serpent like necks intertwined, each neck noosed by a man. This represents the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt. In last register below a bull symbolizing the king rams into a fort breaking it while trampling on an enemy.
^ On this side we see the king in the forefront wearing his own hedjet (white headdress) which resembles a bull penis, wielding his pear-shaped mace about to strike an enemy down which he grips by the hair. This is a classic smiting pose as depicted all throughout the dynastic period. However, such a scene may originate in the ritual of human sacrifice as such rituals were common to many other divine kings in Africa. The sandal-bearer stands in the background holding a kettle of water used as ablutions to cleanse the king after his ritual sacrifice as seen in other African cultures and first cited by Diop. Above the helpless enemy is the symbol of the delta with the head of a man. A hawk is perched above grabbing out the breath of life from the Delta’s nostrils. In the register below are two men who represent enemy cities.
Posts: 26307 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
Go here if you wish to rid yourself of your assinine ignorance, that you so frequently display. I dare you to come to that thread and debate us with that non-sense.
There is absolutely nothing European or West Asian about Egypt. The things you mention are objects, and have zip to do with the fundamental African characteristics of Ancient Egyptian culture.
quote: Unlike that of Mesopotamia, Early Dynastic society in Egypt did not crystallize into a number of distinct, autonomous city-states, but rather “assumed the form of a single, united, but rural domain of an absolute monarch” (Frankfort 1948: 50; cf. Baines and Yoffee 1998: 208–209). Royal ceremony centred upon the body of the king, in which an immortal god was incarnated and personified. It consisted primarily in the erection and maintenance of permanent funerary monuments, and in a cycle of more ephemeral, revelatory displays, which celebrated his active role in binding the inhabited land to an ordered image of the cosmos (Frankfort 1948: 45, 79–139; cf. Baines 1995: 129–135, 1997). During the Old Kingdom, elite status was expressed in the idiom of proximity and access to the king’s person, which provided the primary locus of political authority in the land (Helck 1954; cf. Baines 1999), and the transmission of landed property was regulated to a significant extent by participation in mortuary cults. These linked the ritual maintenance of a sensory life for the king and the elite to the dispensation of privileges and resources among their living dependants (Kemp 1983: 85–96; Roth 1991).
Increasing scholarly interest in developing or reviving accounts of Egyptian state formation based upon African models of political development constitutes more than an intellectual engagement with current social agendas. It also represents a frustration with the inability of existing models of social evolution, developed principally in relation to the archaeological record of South West Asia, to account for the distinguishing features of Egyptian political culture outlined above (cf. Fairservis 1989). In the remainder of this chapter, I highlight these shortcomings, and seek to outline the basis of an alternative account of early state formation, placing Egypt’s development within the context of the Nile Valley as a whole, and drawing particularly upon recent archaeological discoveries in Central Sudan.
And..
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Similarities between early neolithic burials in Middle Egypt and Central Sudan extend beyond the treatment and ornamentation of the corpse to the deposition of functionally similar artefacts within graves: principally a range of cosmetic articles and implements, and small pottery vessels. Stone palettes, accompanied by grinding pebbles and pigments for the production of body paint, are typical grave goods in both regions. While Egyptian palettes of this period are usually made of siltstone and grooved for suspension (Baumgartel 1960: 55–57), those of Central Sudan are sandstone or porphyry, and are not grooved (Geus 1984: 30; Krzyzaniak 1991: 523; Lecointe 1987).
And elsewhere in the same book..
quote:The suite of grave goods found in Badarian cemeteries also included cosmetic implements carved from bone and ivory. Combs make their first appearance at this time, as do spatulas, probably used with small ivory vessels and hollowed tusks for mixing and manipulating fluids. The distribution of these artefact types, including cosmetic palettes, within graves does not correspond with any obvious social grouping based upon age or sex (cf. Anderson 1992; Castillos 1982). Damp conditions in the Khartoum region have caused bone and ivory to decompose far more rapidly than on the desert fringes of Middle Egypt, a factor which must be taken into account in considering the apparent absence of similar objects in Khartoum Neolithic burials (see Geus 1984: 23, fig. 55; Lecointe 1987: 73). Stone mace-heads make their first appearance in Central Sudanese burials at this time (Krzyzaniak 1991: 523, fig. 11.4; Lecointe 1987: figs. 5, 7); they are not widely reported from contemporary cemeteries in Egypt, but were to b ecome a standard g rave good there during later neolithic (Naqada I–II) times (Cialowicz 1987).
posted
^What thread that you linked? You mean the one where you and the others debunk yourselves by trying to prove that dynastic Egypt just came out of nowhere overnite because a bunch of cow herders decided they had enough of the bulls#!t?lol....
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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And where is a picture of that saharan desert rock art you keep talking about where the hero is wrestling with two beasts?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: ^What thread that you linked? You mean the one where you and the others debunk yourselves by trying to prove that dynastic Egypt just came out of nowhere overnite because a bunch of cow herders decided they had enough of the bulls#!t?lol....
You have defective reading comprehension? The material in my thread says that the ancestral cultural and political hallmarks that would typify AE until its demise were already in place, as is evidenced by their rich burial objects among other things, despite the absence of permanent dwellings.
Where the phuck did you get the idea that it came ''out of nowhere overnight''?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
^ We all know about the cemetaries that predate the rise of AE by a few generations. So tell us about them. What rich burial objects connect them and other more southernly Africans to the rise of AE?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Spiralbrains and other Euronuts idiots are too scared to discuss the very basis of Egyptian culture-- that it is AFRICAN.
That's why they don't go near the thread we linked to like the plague.
Keep running from the truth, little boy.
Indeed All they can do is yap about so called Mesopotamian figures, cylinder seals and chariots, when non of the above are hallmarks that typify AE, or would cause it to collapse when removed. Contrast that with the fundamental hallmarks of AE, that when removed (usually by the same Eurasians that were supposed to have built Ancient Egypt), threathened Egypts very survival. Beside making the point that Eurasian immigration was obviously detrimental to Ancient Egypt, it is also notable that several times in AE's history, it required intervention of Africans to restore said devastating effects.
Contrast the usual superficial cultural features summoned by the usual dessidents with the rich cultural traits that they share(d) with other Africans, and it becomes quite visible what they're reduced to; talking about the appearance of trivial Middle Eastern objects, that occur in the reverse direction as well, ie, Egyptian objects in Middle Eastern areas.
All one has to do is look at the sphinx figures that occur (read: were copied) ubiquitously in ancient middle eastern civi's, often, with nemes and all.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: ^ We all know about the cemetaries that predate the rise of AE by a few generations. So tell us about them. What rich burial objects connect them and other more southernly Africans to the rise of AE?
Come on son! You are no factor here, what makes you think I'm interested in anything other than debunking your shitty assertions??
Don't think you're going to drag me down 6/7 page threads like you did with the others in the Cillinder thread, using idiotic questions. Yo ass can't even comprehend what you read anyway.
posted
So tell us about the vital more southernly African essentials for the rise of ancient Egypt Kalonji.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: ^ We all know about the cemetaries that predate the rise of AE by a few generations. So tell us about them. What rich burial objects connect them and other more southernly Africans to the rise of AE?
Come on son! You are no factor here, what makes you think I'm interested in anything other than debunking your shitty assertions??
Don't think you're going to drag me down 6/7 page threads like you did with the others in the Cillinder thread, using idiotic questions. Yo ass can't even comprehend what you read anyway.
LOL
Cillinder thread? What's a cillinder?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I mean what are the vital sub-saharan essentials that define ancient Egypt kalonji? Where can we find those essentials already prevalent in the sub-saharan prior to the rise of ancient Egypt?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I'm not trying to be a smart you know what, I'm trying to put this altogether. These cow herders had some fancy funerary objects they buried and then abrakadayum, up sprung Egypt. Is there any burial practices to the far south that relate somewhat to the burial habits of these first proto-Egyptians?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
A said closest in cultural affinities which is relative and not discreet.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Oldest Egyptian writing is found in Southern Egypt and not Northern. Heiroglphs are truly an African writing system and unique to the Nile valley peoples.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: ^ We all know about the cemetaries that predate the rise of AE by a few generations. So tell us about them. What rich burial objects connect them and other more southernly Africans to the rise of AE?
Come on son! You are no factor here, what makes you think I'm interested in anything other than debunking your shitty assertions??
Don't think you're going to drag me down 6/7 page threads like you did with the others in the Cillinder thread, using idiotic questions. Yo ass can't even comprehend what you read anyway.
LOL
Its about time someone realized this poster is not here for academic discussion. Probably just mathilda trolling here due to the competition she has with E.S
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: [qb] Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
Go here if you wish to rid yourself of your assinine ignorance, that you so frequently display. I dare you to come to that thread and debate us with that non-sense.
What fundamental African characteristics of Ancient Egyptian culture?
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
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^ Egypt is by definition an African culture due to its locale. The burden of proof to the contrary is on those that would argue that it is an imported culture.
For example, the oldest mummification practices are found in the Sahara of Africa and not amongst Eurasian people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: ^ We all know about the cemetaries that predate the rise of AE by a few generations. So tell us about them. What rich burial objects connect them and other more southernly Africans to the rise of AE?
Come on son! You are no factor here, what makes you think I'm interested in anything other than debunking your shitty assertions??
Don't think you're going to drag me down 6/7 page threads like you did with the others in the Cillinder thread, using idiotic questions. Yo ass can't even comprehend what you read anyway.
LOL
Its about time someone realized this poster is not here for academic discussion. Probably just mathilda trolling here due to the competition she has with E.S
Yeah, I bet she got her Caucasian Libyan mummies that predate Uan from there as well. I don't mind debates, but I'm just not with the games. Want an example of what I'm talking about when I say ''games''? Look at this turds request right after I gave him the link to the very info he's asking for:
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: [qb] Then where are the Hieroglyphs to the techno-complex like those of Egypt find to the south?
The cultural affinities between Egypt and to the south can easily be explained by trade and slight influence the same way Egyptian chariots, egyptian wheel, mudbrick building etc can be explained via trade and influence from the Near East
Go here if you wish to rid yourself of your assinine ignorance, that you so frequently display. I dare you to come to that thread and debate us with that non-sense.
What fundamental African characteristics of Ancient Egyptian culture?
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