quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Is this the brown guy that lead all those other brown guys into battle against the Visigoths of Spain?
Tariq was said to have belonged to the Nafzawa. Interesting what the Berber of Jebel Nafusa or Nafzawa look like today.
Just like the rest of the Zanata Girl of Jebel Nafusa black and beautiful or brown in beautiful - take your pick.
The so-called non-Negro Mediterranean of Sergi.
Sergi writes of " the oases of Nefzana, the Berbers of Wed-Suef to the west by the Ruegha or inhabitants of Wedh Righ, and the Berbers of Sus in Morocco." in his Te Mediterranean Race, saying "although of very dark complexion these people differ essentially from the Negroes..." They call themselves Khomri..." p 82 I guess similar to the ancient Egyptians.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Black short haired Moors are pictured all over Europe by the hundreds in statues, carvings and in paintings with bands of some sort wrapped around their black and near black heads.
Is there something that you can not put together here in your head - like 2 and 2 and if so, why not?!
German depiction of Moors
Dana this painting shows straight long haired people defending a castle. What is your conclusion about the numbers of blacks who had afro kinky hair compared to whites in medieval Europe not including Spain?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Black short haired Moors are pictured all over Europe by the hundreds in statues, carvings and in paintings with bands of some sort wrapped around their black and near black heads.
Is there something that you can not put together here in your head - like 2 and 2 and if so, why not?!
German depiction of Moors
Dana this painting shows straight long haired people defending a castle. What is your conclusion about the numbers of blacks who had afro kinky hair compared to whites in medieval Europe not including Spain?
I personally could care less since that's what happens when blacks absorb Nordics. There are very few Moors depicted black with straight hair in Germany or any where else for that matter.
Fact is the faces of these Moors are a lot more Negroid than I would have expected them to be up close given their long hair.
I am sure you would agree. Unless you are going to say they are some kind of Australoid like the Greek.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Depictions of the Moors done in real time from some people that were actually there, and not some fantasy dreamed up by modern day wishful thinkers. Images that have been shown to you time and time again, yet you still refuse to see the truth.
posted
dana, basic question, let's take an earlier period, 1st century AD Europe. What is the population of Europe at that time, blacks in proportion to whites? What is your guess? Was one of these groups a vast majority at that time?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: dana, basic question, let's take an earlier period, 1st century AD Europe. What is the population of Europe at that time, blacks in proportion to whites? What is your guess? Was one of these groups a vast majority at that time?
No lets NOT take an earlier period. Have no idea, and don't care.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Alright - to troll along with you. How about 8- 15 percent black. I think there could have been black remnant populations among the Danes, Scots or Pictae, Thracians and Britons since Romans mention Blackamoors there. Others mention the Erembi Nigri in Spain near Cadiz. The Sabir Huns or Hunagurs were described as black and short with long hair though. of course 'Ethiopians" still lived on the Rioni in Jerome's time, land of Colchis. Some early scholars believe there were some black kara Vlachs or MoroVlachs and early representatives of gypsies of Xinti that could have been more or less black, judging from their modern appearance ( many are dark brown) in Bulgaria. Southern Italian had some Sicani and other people who were probably related to original neolithic people or the Pelasgians. All minorities but nonetheless there.
Satisfied?!
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Alright - to troll along with you. How about 8- 15 percent black. I think there could have been black remnant populations among the Danes, Scots or Pictae, Thracians and Britons since Romans mention Blackamoors there. Others mention the Erembi Nigri in Spain near Cadiz. The Sabir Huns or Hunagurs were described as black and short with long hair though. of course 'Ethiopians" still lived on the Rioni in Jerome's time, land of Colchis. Some early scholars believe there were some black kara Vlachs or MoroVlachs and early representatives of gypsies of Xinti that could have been more or less black, judging from their modern appearance ( many are dark brown) in Bulgaria. Southern Italian had some Sicani and other people who were probably related to original neolithic people. All minorities but nonetheless there.
Satisfied?!
those 8-15% figures seem high. Allison Blakeley, a black historian Chair of African American Studies at Boston University wrote in an essay for the American Historical Association:
Africa and Africans have had an influence on European thought and culture far disproportionate to the size of the small black population (which, for example, approached 150,000 in the Iberian peninsula in the 16th century, and by the 18th amounted to just several thousand in France, a few thousand in the Netherlands, and several hundred scattered through Germany, Scandinavia, and Russia; only in the 20th century would the combined numbers reach the hundreds of thousands). The most striking example of that disproportionate influence can be seen in the 20th century, in Soviet Russia, which as part of its messianic role chose Black Africa and blacks in America as symbols for the Communist championing of the downtrodden; elected blacks as honorary members of the Moscow City Council; and named a mountain after Paul Robeson. A strong case can also be made that blacks have had influence in and on Europe primarily as symbols of European achievement, rather than in their own right. A graphic example was the curious widespread use of "Moors' heads" in the coats of arms of hundreds of European towns and families in medieval and early modern Europe. European attitudes about Africa and Africans have played a significant role in helping Europeans to define themselves.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Alright - to troll along with you. How about 8- 15 percent black. I think there could have been black remnant populations among the Danes, Scots or Pictae, Thracians and Britons since Romans mention Blackamoors there. Others mention the Erembi Nigri in Spain near Cadiz. The Sabir Huns or Hunagurs were described as black and short with long hair though. of course 'Ethiopians" still lived on the Rioni in Jerome's time, land of Colchis. Some early scholars believe there were some black kara Vlachs or MoroVlachs and early representatives of gypsies of Xinti that could have been more or less black, judging from their modern appearance ( many are dark brown) in Bulgaria. Southern Italian had some Sicani and other people who were probably related to original neolithic people. All minorities but nonetheless there.
Satisfied?!
those figures seem high. Allison Blakeley, a black historian Chair of African American Studies at Boston University wrote in an essay for the American Historical Association:
Africa and Africans have had an influence on European thought and culture far disproportionate to the size of the small black population (which, for example, approached 150,000 in the Iberian peninsula in the 16th century, and by the 18th amounted to just several thousand in France, a few thousand in the Netherlands, and several hundred scattered through Germany, Scandinavia, and Russia; only in the 20th century would the combined numbers reach the hundreds of thousands). The most striking example of that disproportionate influence can be seen in the 20th century, in Soviet Russia, which as part of its messianic role chose Black Africa and blacks in America as symbols for the Communist championing of the downtrodden; elected blacks as honorary members of the Moscow City Council; and named a mountain after Paul Robeson. A strong case can also be made that blacks have had influence in and on Europe primarily as symbols of European achievement, rather than in their own right. A graphic example was the curious widespread use of "Moors' heads" in the coats of arms of hundreds of European towns and families in medieval and early modern Europe. European attitudes about Africa and Africans have played a significant role in helping Europeans to define themselves.
I am very curious as to why you would ask me about the 1st century and then quote somebody talking about the 16th.
I am also certain that when the Professor says "blacks" she is only referring to the non-Berber and non-Arabian African inhabitants of Europe. Like you and others, hse has been told that the early berbers and Arabians were other than the jet black people many of them were but we know differently don't we.
Palermo in Sicily under Islamis control was called the "Gate of the Blacks" Bab es Sudan in the 10th century for a reason. All of the thousands of black Muslims there. There were also at one point 10s of thousands of black Arabs in Eastern European countries.
Of course, this is a long time after the 1st century when there were probably a greater percentage of African and Afro-Asiatic descended people than later.
Funny I would have thought 150,000 was a bit high for the 16th century in Iberia - even if she is only talking of African slaves. Of course Euronuts on this board have been saying there were no blacks aside from slaves too, pointing to "genetic evidence'.
If she has evidence of blacks being a group that high in number in the 16th c. when blacks were pushed into places like Auvergne, France and Holland she sure has a lot more evidence than I've seen.
THANKS FOR INFORMING US HERE AT EGYPTSEARCH! Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: i am curious as to why you would ask me about the 1st century and then quote somebody talking about the 16th. Funny I would have thought 150,000 was a bit high for the 16th century in Iberia.
He mentions the 16th as being the peak of blacks in Europe, Spain specifically. In places like England, France, germany and Scotland the number were much less.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
Of course, this is a long time after the 1st century when there were probably a greater percentage of African and Afro-Asiatic descended people.
Precisely the opposite, as noted the increase of blacks into Europe, mostly in Spain was primarily due to the Islamic conquest beginning in 711 comprised of blacks and non-blacks. Later, slaves were also imported from Ethiopia and other places and dubbed "Moors". Some became freed men and achieved some things. These are used as mascots in the heraldry and are certainly Christianized versions, black heads with European crowns sometimes, usually not turbans which rwould have referred to the Islamic culture, the Isamic component that was tha basis of the conquest, removed. Black heads with European crowns in the heraldry, generic not representing actual black Euroepan kings. Also keeping in mind that the trans Atlantic slave trade begins in about 1411 and was authorized by Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.
I bring this up because Mike, Ironlion, Marc, Egmond, Malibudsul all think 1st century Europe was majority black. Was there a dark skinned person who was a Scottish king AD with straight hair? Possibly. Was there a dark skinned person who was a Scottish king AD with afro type hair? It seems unlikely. I don't see any evidence for it. Some people seem to wish to be a European king.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I bring this up because Mike, Ironlion, Marc, Egmond, Malibudsul all think 1st century Europe was majority black.
In all fairness to the one weh name Malibudsul, I think he's just following the others mentioned....
There is a saying: Nuh follow fool tun eediat....lol....
There is no shortage of "yes man" and "yes gyal" in the world btw...
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Some people seem to wish to be a European king.
No they wish to put blacks wherever there's greatness. It is their basic discontent for themselves, as well as for whites.
I made a thread proving to them that gospel music originated from the Highlands of Scotland, and now it's a must for them to portray the ancient Scots as being black. If nothing great would have came from Scotland, then they would say there you go whitey, you can have it.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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Watch how desperate they become every time they think one of us has mentioned a possible connection between Egypt and either Europe or the Middle East. Suddenly those places become originally inhabited by a people that were black with negroid features. And yet to each and every one of them, race doesn't exist. It only exists when it suits their own agenda. But when one of us point out possible European features in the Egyptian mummies, the word race becomes a very broad definition or has no meaning at all. These people are funny to watch.
Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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Why do these 9,000 year old plastered skulls from the Middle East have basic features common among the average European? If these features were commonplace in the Middle East 9,000 years ago, then what the hell were a bunch of negroes doing running around Europe at the same time and a long time thereafter? I mean, the word for today people is, commonsense.lol
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] There is no shortage of "yes man" and "yes gyal" in the world btw...
To my horror and shocking surprise, you're absolutely right Posts: 525 | From: Terra | Registered: Oct 2008
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^I've posted firsthand accounts of what the Moors looked like in general. Any more questions? Posts: 527 | From: usa | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Why do these 9,000 year old plastered skulls from the Middle East have basic features common among the average European? If these features were commonplace in the Middle East 9,000 years ago, then what the hell were a bunch of negroes doing running around Europe at the same time and a long time thereafter? I mean, the word for today people is, commonsense.lol
Come-on Simple Girl, you're a degenerate lying Albino, so surely you must know what other degenerate lying Albinos are capable of - you know, fake artifacts - LYING!
Skulls from Jericho PPNB, ca. 7000? , under house floor, human skulls covered with plaster and with cowrie shell inlays
quote:Godfrey Higgins says in the first Volume of Anacalypsis, “In my Essay on The Celtic Druids, I have shewn, that a great nation called the Celtae, of whom the Druids were the priests, spread themselves almost over the whole earth, and are to be traced in their rude gigantic monuments from India to the extremity of Britain. Who these can have been but the early individuals of the black nation of whom we have been treating I know not, and in this opinion I am not singular.
The learned Maurice says, "Cushites, i.e. Celts, built the great temples in India and Britain, and excavated the caves of the former." And the learned Mathematician, Ruben Burrow, has no hesitation in pronouncing Stonehenge to be a temple of the black, curly-headed Buddha." ...
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:These are used as mascots in the heraldry and are certainly Christianized versions, black heads with European crowns sometimes, usually not turbans which rwould have referred to the Islamic culture, the Isamic component that was tha basis of the conquest, removed. Black heads with European crowns in the heraldry, generic not representing actual black Euroepan kings.
Lioness again I told you and others that you have to look at the individual coat of arms and the purpose they served for arms with the names .Morrison,Moor,Black,Blackman,Dunn, Noir and other derivative there of indicate founders,most likely converts Moors were stationed there in Palermo one of their base of operations was called Bab Es Soudan or gate of the Blacks by Ibn Hawkal 827 ad Fedrick II of the Hohenstaufen dynasty,developed close relationships with these Blacks in Sicily he retained a Moorish Chamberlain who was constantly in his presence,He also solicited the aid of the Moors of Palermo in his intense struggle with the Papacy,he also recruited an Elite guard unit of 16,000 Black troops.
The above King was a German what do you suppose happen to all those high ranking blacks? they became part of the White/Christian nobility for generations to come and yes some of their descendants became Bishops,Cardinals,Mayor and maybe even a King or two,and don't get it twisted Cardinals and Bishops during that era were extremely powerful figures they were used by the Pope to bring down kings,not merely sprinkling water on people.
Icons showing Balthazar,Sir Maurice are in a different category for these types are mythic or legendary..and of course you have the bound Moor,of Moor's head on a pike or the off with your head Moors.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:DUFF, a surname adopted from the Celtic, in which language the word means BLACK. Sibbald, in his History of Fife, says, " that as NIGER and RUFUS were names of families amongst the Romans, from the COLOUR AND COMPLEXION OF MEN , so it seems Duff was, from the SWARTHY AND BLACK COLOUR OF THOSE OF THE TRIBE," or clan of Macduff.
quote:DUFF, king of Scotland, son of Malcolm the First, succeeded Indulph in 961. The name was Odo, according to Pinkerton. By the Celtic part of his subjects he was surnamed Duff, or THE BLACK.
-The Scottish nation; or, The surnames, families, literature, honours, and biographical history of the people of Scotland (1877) by William Anderson
Posts: 150 | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:There is another old word used by the Anglo-Saxons to denote black or brown-black the word sweart. The personal names Suart and Sueart may have been derived from this word, and may have originally denoted people of a dark-brown or black complexion. Some names of this kind are mentioned in the Domesday record of Buckinghamshire and Lincolnshire. These may be of Scandinavian origin, for the ekename or nickname Svarti is found in the Northern Sagas. 3 Halfden the Black was the name of a King of Norway who died in 863. The so-called black men of the Anglo-Saxon period probably included some of the darker Wendish people among them, immigrants or descendants of people of the same race as the ancestors of the Sorbs of Lausatia on the borders of Saxony and Prussia at the present day
-Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race : a study of the settlement of England and the tribal origin of the Old English people(1906) by Thomas William Shore
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quote:There is, in addition, evidence that points to Norwegians of a brunette appearance as another source whence brown-complexioned people may have come into England. On the south-east coast of Norway, and here and there on the coast farther north, a population is met with which differs from the usual Norwegian type, and this has been referred by anthropologists to a very ancient settlement there of the pre-historic brown race that survives in the highlands of Central Europe, and is known as the brown Alpine race. 1 This race is believed to have extended before the dawn of history much further northwards in Germany
-Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race : a study of the settlement of England and the tribal origin of the Old English people by Thomas William Shore(1906)
Posts: 150 | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:DUFF, a surname adopted from the Celtic, in which language the word means BLACK. Sibbald, in his History of Fife, says, " that as NIGER and RUFUS were names of families amongst the Romans, from the COLOUR AND COMPLEXION OF MEN , so it seems Duff was, from the SWARTHY AND BLACK COLOUR OF THOSE OF THE TRIBE," or clan of Macduff.
This fits in well with what I said in another thread that Roman era Blacks were the origin of some of these families before the Islamic era, Hardrian and Severus Septimius stationing troops at the Scottish border,that after their tour was up some would settle there most likely marrying local women some from the local Romanized elite who would seek their favor.They would be granted land as part of their severance package along with money they would be in fact land lords and given that they are veterans they would be protectors and men of influence with far ranging contacts through-out the Roman empire for business in fact they would not differ significantly from many ex-military men today who resides in countries they were stationed in.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Dana, more of that tapestry showing what must be the onslaught of the German Migration Period following the death of Attila and also of Atieus - the great general who was successful at keeping the Germans at bay.
With both of them gone, the flood of whites into Europe began in earnest. I'd guess the Moors were likely San / Khoisan:
quote:These are used as mascots in the heraldry and are certainly Christianized versions, black heads with European crowns sometimes, usually not turbans which would have referred to the Islamic culture, the Isamic component that was tha basis of the conquest, removed. Black heads with European crowns in the heraldry, generic not representing actual black European kings.
Lioness again I told you and others that you have to look at the individual coat of arms and the purpose they served for arms with the names .Morrison,Moor,Black,Blackman,Dunn, Noir and other derivative there of indicate founders,most likely converts Moors were stationed there in Palermo one of their base of operations was called Bab Es Soudan or gate of the Blacks by Ibn Hawkal 827 ad Fedrick II of the Hohenstaufen dynasty,developed close relationships with these Blacks in Sicily he retained a Moorish Chamberlain who was constantly in his presence,He also solicited the aid of the Moors of Palermo in his intense struggle with the Papacy,he also recruited an Elite guard unit of 16,000 Black troops.
The above King was a German what do you suppose happen to all those high ranking blacks? they became part of the White/Christian nobility for generations to come and yes some of their descendants became Bishops,Cardinals,Mayor and maybe even a King or two,and don't get it twisted Cardinals and Bishops during that era were extremely powerful figures they were used by the Pope to bring down kings,not merely sprinkling water on people.
name some.
you come into threads made by people who believe medieval Europe was predominantly black.
The german coat of arms you put up is of one of the the Bishops of Freisling, Johann Franz Ecker von Kapfing.
Does this mean he or any of the Bishops of Friesling were black moors and looked like the head in this coat of arms? No more than Benedict of today is his coat of arms
Ernest of Bavaria (1554-1612) Prince-Elector-Archbishop of Cologne Reign: April 1583 – 17 February 1612 German: Ernst von Bayern, Kurerzbischof von Köln Titles of Ernest of Bavaria: Prince-Elector-Archbishop of Cologne Prince-Bishop of Freising Prince-Bishop of Hildesheim Prince-Bishop of Liège Prince-Abbot of Stavelot-Malmedy Prince-Bishop of Münster . Buried: Cologne Cathedral Predecessor: Gebhard Truchsess von Waldburg Successor: Ferdinand of Bavaria Royal House: House of Wittelsbach and House of Habsburg Father: Albert V, Duke of Bavaria Mother: Anna von Habsburg
1528 Portrait of Philipp von der Pfalz, Bishop of Freising
________________________________________________
where are the portraits of all these dark black nobles who look like the emblems on ther heraldry?
you think all of these white people of medieval Europe are suddenly going to let themselves be ruled over by some exotic looking dark black African with an afro? They were already importing our people as slaves, stop the madness. Let's get a little perspective here on the overall complection of medieval Europe. The number of blacks in Germany at this time was under a thousand. Iberia was the only place where they were a significant minority approaching 150,000 out of millions. I'm not saying every black person in Northern Western medieval Europe was a slave. Some were freed men and a few attained a little bit of status (of course the ones who renounced Islam and coverted) Some may have been Africans who traveled on their own accord into Europe. The people on many of these herladry items were generic representations, many of them Ethiopian and not Moors at all. They were certainly not indigenous Europeans.
Well what about all the Grimaldi skeletons found? That's two skeletons, very short people, they found in France 25kys years old, skin and hair type unknown. -certainly not contemporary to AD Europeans
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
This thread is pure comedy. We have the Afronuts quote mining and distorting Godfrey Higgings, David MacRitchie and now Thomas Willis Shore. This is despite the fact none of these authors supported Afrocentrism.
Afronuts dig up 19th century or early 20th century authors and then twist their views. Very odd indeed. Makes you look retarded.
Next time actually buy and read the works you try to distort...
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
Johannes Morus viceroy of Sicily. Alessandro De Medici Duke of Florence
Need I go on??..Like I said above some of these that bare the name Moor on their coat Of Arms were founder that does not mean their off-spring should look anything like them, hint Abraham Hannibal whose blood help fuel some of Europe's nobles today..looked nothing like their 4X time granddaddy I gave you the example of ex Black Roman soldiers,if they happen to be non Black ex Roman soldier the same would hold true and you would have noo problem with that, you just have a problem with blackness especially if they turn up in European high circles.
But lets be clear here I am not one for swarming Europe with murderous Black nobles only to be un done by equally murderous White peasants. But that does not mean that Blacks were absent or played only the role of slaves and menial in ancient and medieval Europe. A Christian A Black and a Noble.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^No lion, This is the worst! Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.
SO THIS IS WHAT THE ANCIENT BRITISH LOOKED LIKE!!!!
Cass, give it up, you are tripping over your own tongue.
After I have established that there was a noble and royal elite in Europe who self-identified as Black, coming from Africa, who ruled whites untill 1848, I have wondered what they really might have looked like, based on the personal descriptions and images. I noticed that black and brown skins went together with brown or blond hair. I have seen middle age images which show brownskinned blonds. Recently I read that king William II of Orange Nassau was deeply brown tanned with blond hair. I do not think his browness comes from tanning, as the family was brown and black of skin, and his great-great grandfather stadhouder William IV was very, very prognastic, with black skin. So when I read that European Blacks were Australoid looking, well there is my answer. The European Blacks were all types of Black and coloured people who freely married among themselves. They did not marry the whites, who were the outcasts, and were used as shoe leather. This explains the hatred of Blacks by whites today, because they were despotically oppressed by a Black identified elite.
[Princess Marianne of Orange-Nassau (1810-1883), the sister of King William II of Orange Nassau: the darkest image yet, there are even photographs that show her as white, yet she must have been very brown of complexion, with dark hair.]
[Pricess Alexandrine of Prussia, Marianne's daughter]
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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I don't know wher you got the title or the source of this picture. What we see is a white woman a black knight and two crests below. Who is the Christian, the woman? Is the knight not also a Christian? No he's a "Moor" as we will see below. Who's the "noble"? I just see two coats of arms below. One of the "Moors" is blindfolded, that means there person is a captive. The illustration comes form medieval artists who were both uniformed and were also making up semi mythological stories.
The Palazzo Zaguri a palace was built between the fourteenth and fifteenth century by the house of Messer Antonio Pasqualino , originally from Milan, who amassed great wealth with the silk trade. You can see the Zaguri name in the right crest above. Norman knight puppet
Saracen Puppet
The Puppet Theatre (OPRA by Pupi in Sicilian) is a type of puppet theater , whose main characters are Charlemagne and his paladins. The exploits of these characters are handled through the reworking of the material contained in novels and poems of the Carlovingian cycle. The puppets are precisely those puppets (from the Latin "Pupus" meaning child). The work is typical of the Sicilian tradition of cuntastorie ("storyteller" in Italian). The Puppet Theatre established itself in southern Italy and Sicily in particular between the second half of the nineteenth century and the first half of the twentieth. Today, the richest collection of puppets can be seen at the International Puppet Museum Antonio Pasqualino and to the Ethnographic Museum in Palermo Sicilian Giuseppe Pitre.
The performances of the Opera dei Pupi are inspired by Sicily’s turbulent history, works of literature, folklore and comedy. The characters in the Opera dei Pupi impersonate heroes of southern Italy’s history as Norman knights against the Saracens.
Saracen was a term used by the ancient Romans to refer to a people who lived in desert areas in and around the Roman province of Arabia, and who were distinguished from Arabs. In Europe during the Middle Ages the term was expanded to include Arabs, and then all who professed the religion of Islam.The expansion of the meaning occurred first among the Byzantine Greeks and then among the Latins. By the time of the Crusades, beginning in 1095, a "Saracen" had become synonymous with a "Muslim" in European chronicles
The municipal coat of arms reflects the crest of the Paganis, a family of Milanese patricians which owned several estates in Rovello as well as a villa that has been renovated over the centuries; its current residents are members of the Porro family. The coat of arms depicts a blindfolded Moor imprisoned during the Crusades within a fortress. The laurel branches extol the city while serving as a reminder of vast oak forests which surrounded the village until the mid-19th century. Note the blindfolded Moor in the Zaguri coat of arms in the illustration at top. lower right. Nobles aren't blindfolded, prisoners are. ______________________________________________
Muslim Period in Sicily
In 826, Euphemius the commander of the Byzantine fleet of Sicily forced a nun to marry him. Emperor Michael II caught wind of the matter and ordered that general Constantine end the marriage and cut off Euphemius' nose. Euphemius rose up, killed Constantine and then occupied Syracuse; he in turn was defeated and driven out to North Africa. He offered rule of Sicily over to Ziyadat Allah the Aghlabid Emir of Tunisia in return for a place as a general and safety; an Islamic army of Arabs, Berbers, Moors, Cretans and Persians was sent.The conquest was a see-saw affair; the local population resisted fiercely and the Arabs suffered considerable dissension and infighting among themselves. It took over a century to complete the conquest (until 965), Syracuse in particular resisting almost to the end. Throughout this reign, continued revolts by Byzantine Sicilians happened especially in the east and part of the lands were even re-occupied before being quashed. Agricultural items such as oranges, lemons, pistachio and sugar cane were brought to Sicily, the native Christians were allowed nominal freedom of religion with jaziya (tax on non-Muslims, imposed by Muslim rulers) to their rulers for the right to practise their own religion. However, the Emirate of Sicily began to fragment as inner-dynasty related quarrels took place between the Muslim regime. By the 11th century mainland southern Italian powers were hiring ferocious Norman mercenaries, who were Christian descendants of the Vikings; it was the Normans under Roger I who conquered Sicily from the Muslims.After taking Apulia and Calabria, he occupied Messina with an army of 700 knights. In 1068, Roger Guiscard and his men defeated the Muslims at Misilmeri but the most crucial battle was the siege of Palermo, which led to Sicily being completely in Norman control by 1091. Many historians have recently argued that the Norman conquest of Islamic Sicily (1060–91) was the start of the Crusades.Palermo continued on as the capital under the Normans. Roger's son, Roger II of Sicily, was ultimately able to raise the status of the island, along with his holds of Malta and Southern Italy to a kingdom in 1130.During this period the Kingdom of Sicily was prosperous and politically powerful, becoming one of the wealthiest states in all of Europe; even wealthier than England.
By the time the The Palazzo Zaguri palace was built between the fourteenth and fifteenth century, the time of the coat of arms we see at the top of the post, the Muslim period was long gone about 300 years. At this point, when the Islam in Sicily had long since been a threat, Moors in the art take on a quaint nostalgic quality, safely coverted to Christianity, defeated in the crusades, combined into a generic for any African and then placed like mascots, anonmously, into the heraldry. And obviously actual Moors would not have had European crowns on their heads. Likewise Moors would not have European style metal armour yet they sometimes get depicted this way. Were there some black Africans around who were not slaves who assimilated and accomplised a few things? Yes. Europe A.D. predominantly black? That's a ridiculous fantasy.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I have printed these texts. It seems that the Black people on this forum are afraid of their own findings and cannot free their minds from mental slavery. The whites are horrified by the idea that Europe was a Black civilisation where Blacks called the shots and ruled and oppressed white people. So we get all this hairsplitting definition of who or what was Black. Strange, as Blacks you have to look at your own family to find a variety of Black types. It's not like one blacker sister will have to move out of the house, and live with the jet black people, so her 'fair' siblings can remains fair and less offensive to whites. Then none of you responded to my Jane austen and Charlotte bronte threads, following your white masters voice, that Blacks should not reserach whites. White boys and girls can research anything, but Blacks should limit themselves to slaves, that is black carribean slaves: their ancestors, or Spanish Muslim Blacks. I have been printing this over and over again, but yall seem to be some kind of American Black donkeys.
The European elite was Black, not because they come out Black after craniometry: their identity was Black and superior over any white trash they considered shoe leather material.
Yall is stupid Black trash.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: . I have printed these texts. It seems that the Black people on this forum are afraid of their own findings and cannot free their minds from mental slavery. The whites are horrified by the idea that Europe was a Black civilisation where Blacks called the shots and ruled and oppressed white people. So we get all this hairsplitting definition of who or what was Black. Strange, as Blacks you have to look at your own family to find a variety of Black types. It's not like one blacker sister will have to move out of the house, and live with the jet black people, so her 'fair' siblings can remains fair and less offensive to whites. Then none of you responded to my Jane austen and Charlotte bronte threads, following your white masters voice, that Blacks should not reserach whites. White boys and girls can research anything, but Blacks should limit themselves to slaves, that is black carribean slaves: their ancestors, or Spanish Muslim Blacks. I have been printing this over and over again, but yall seem to be some kind of American Black donkeys.
The European elite was Black, not because they come out Black after craniometry: their identity was Black and superior over any white trash they considered shoe leather material.
Yall is stupid Black trash.
And YOU are a deluded mentally-ill renk disgusting c*ck-tekkin f*ggot....who, like most battyman, feel that while everyone else should respect your asspinion, you have no respect for the opinions of others (i.e, who don't agree with you)...No one responded to that Jane Austen sh*t because no one here but you really too much cares about it and/or what you may or may not have 'discovered' about it....YOU ARE NOT THE AMBASSADOR OF BLACKNESS to decide who is a houseni*ga and who isn't all because Black Folks don't agree with your asspinions, you deh pon some real scunt....so stop friggin bawling bout who and who not reading what like some lil gyal....either go bout your bizniz and STFU and continue to do your thing and let those who ignore you ignore you or go bout your bizniz and STFU and don't continue to do your thing...either way, no one here really gives too much of a f*ck....yuh gwan like ah big p*ssy gyal scorned more time...guh drown ina yuh man's bathwater you pink massengil duppy.... Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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[I always have this idea that if you fight aganinst discrimination and oppression, you include all minorities in your struggle. How can a Black who studied racism, be homophobic? Or does not speak out against the trade in women.]
To ignore has gotten a new meaning. These days you give off a tirade to show how much you ignore a person. Well, its clear I have tweaked a weak spot with you dear, by cursing out THE HOUSE NIGGER crowd on this forum. I did not call no names, yet the house nigra outed herself. I have already laied out my ideas why a stupid, middle aged black bitch, with bad teeth, and overweight should be so jealous about men who manage to get the big dicks she so terribly craves. It's the way of the world, gays have been here forever, even Leviticus alerts us to this fact. Apparently to be a good housenigger a nigra also has to be against gays too. God knows the most clever people in this world are gay or bi-sexual. And they, the white arch-enemy always deal with Black opponents by digging into their private lives, to attack them. Quite interesting.
D'Alencon was swarthy and gay as a goose. Loved the cross dressing too.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights: And YOU are a deluded mentally-ill renk disgusting c*ck-tekkin f*ggot....who, like most battyman, feel that while everyone else should respect your asspinion, you have no respect for the opinions of others (i.e, who don't agree with you)...No one responded to that Jane Austen sh*t because no one here but you really too much cares about it and/or what you may or may not have 'discovered' about it....YOU ARE NOT THE AMBASSADOR OF BLACKNESS to decide who is a houseni*ga and who isn't all because Black Folks don't agree with your asspinions, you deh pon some real scunt....so stop friggin bawling bout who and who not reading what like some lil gyal....either go bout your bizniz and STFU and continue to do your thing and let those who ignore you ignore you or go bout your bizniz and STFU and don't continue to do your thing...either way, no one here really gives too much of a f*ck....yuh gwan like ah big p*ssy gyal scorned more time...guh drown ina yuh man's bathwater you pink massengil duppy....
This is what you are not getting....
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Doug las means black man in Gaelic. Some will claim it means black river but river is glais, not glas in Gaelic. Dubh or Doug means black. And "glas" means man or person, in Gaelic. Check it up yourself.
Now read the following story about one of the Douglases of Scotland:
"Barbour, the poet, dwells fondly upon this period in the life of Douglas, whom he describes as cheerful, courteous, dutiful, and of a generous disposition, insomuch, that he was esteemed and beloved by all; yet was he not so fair, adds the same discreet writer, that we should much admire his beauty. He was of a somewhat grey or swarthy complexion, and had black hair, circumstances from which, especially among the English, he came to be known by the name of the Black Douglas..."
Dana, more of that tapestry showing what must be the onslaught of the German Migration Period following the death of Attila and also of Atieus - the great general who was successful at keeping the Germans at bay.
With both of them gone, the flood of whites into Europe began in earnest. I'd guess the Moors were likely San / Khoisan:
Iron, this thread is producing some unique, very interesting information! I particularly like this image posted earlier,
Any more information on the image?
. .
Marc
That picture is one of the images used to represent Crennuns, the horned god of the Celts, the owner of the forests. I prolly have to go digging into my archives to see what more interesting information to pull up for you. I will get back shortly.
Much respect
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Douglas is a very very common surname for many caribbeans. Many of them have jokingly claimed to have royal scottish lineage..........Now I thought 11th or 12th century medieval families took the name from the douglas river in south lanarkshire.scotland...... . . Does anyone have additional supporting information on the Douglas of the 8th century quote ? I would like to know exactly what large possessions. Mr douglas was granted in the 8th century.
Source...
Ringrose's Heraldry: The Relation of the Science with History, Poetry and the Arts..Jerome Arthur Ringrose. . .
quote:There were three hundred Cushite settlements along the west coast of Africa, and extending as far north as Norway, Ireland, and Scotland.
quote:It is said that the first people in Ireland were the Formatians. They were a dark, stunted race, utterly savage, using rough, unwrought stone implements. So far as can be learned, they did not know the use of fire. It is said they came from Africa on ships.
quote:They first buried their dead in caves, and when the caves were not available they placed their dead in long barrows or graves in a row. Some such barrows were 400 feet long and 50 feet wide. They were an African people, and there appears evidence that they sometimes practiced cannibalism.
-Riddles of prehistoric times (1911) by James H. Anderson
quote:The primitive race of Scotland was long-skulled, short in stature, and probably very dark in complexion
- RENFREWSHIRE (1912) by FREDERICK MORT, M.A., B.Sc., F.G.S. Fellow of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society Late Lecturer in Geology, Glasgow University
quote:The earliest inhabitants of Britain probably crossedfrom the continent of Europe when it was connected to these islands by a land-bridge.
quote:From their stone weapons they are called palaeolithic (ancient stone), and their nearest representatives in modern times are believed to be the Bushmen of Africa.
-LANARKSHIRE (1910) by FREDERICK MORT, M.A., B.Sc., F.G.S. Fellow of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society Late Lecturer in Geology, Glasgow University
Posts: 150 | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:From the moment the Aryans set foot in India they were strenuously opposed by the aborigines of the country, who were then a powerful well-organised race, living under a social system of great antiquity; they were governed by recognised rulers, some of whom possessed strong forts and had amassed considerable wealth. These aborigines are frequently referred to in Vedic writings as the black-skinned, vile, noseless, sullen, and despised people, who nevertheless fought with great courage for their lands and homes
quote:He adds this was the race who, in the early neolithic period, ' occupied the British Isles, and the area west of the Rhine, and north of the Alps. A short dark-complexioned people, with black hair and eyes, and long skulls.' These people also inhabited the Spanish Peninsula, and are best known as the Iberian or Mediterranean race. Professor de Mortillet calls them the Laugerians, other authorities Afro-Europeans
-Origin and Character of the British People (1900) by Nottidge Charles MacNamara
NOTE:This explains the various examples of Crowned Moors in European heraldry and is represented and recorded in the German "Wild Men & Moors" tapestry
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