posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

Dienekes has caught wind of this, and to his credit he seems to have revised his opinion on the AEs' affinities:

Forensic analysis of King Tut and his relatives

---

LMAO @ that charlatan!

He didn't revise his opinion before despite all the other evidence via skeletal and genetic via PN2 and Benin HBS but now he revises based on 8 STR loci. How noble of him.

quote:

---

Evergreen Writes:

Hell will freeze over before he admits:

Pictorial evidence in Greek art, as well as the statements of classical Greek authors strongly suggest that the ancient Greeks occupied an intermediate position in the phenotypic continuum between Northern Europeans and "Ethiopian" people. It is also clear that there was variation within ancient Greece itself: geographic, temporal, and even perhaps social aspects of this variation may have existed. But these qualitative observations are no substitute for the harder type of evidence that can be provided by authentic ancient DNA.

---

Of course.

---

Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] :: Goddamn . . While I still have my reservations about DNA Tribes, /QB]

---

Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by astenb:
^ Why are you acting retarded?
Why dont you address the genetic analysis of the ANCIENT mummy remains?

---

Please..
i doubt about the validity of this study since the phenotype and the ostelogic studies (aswell as HISTORY) are supporting an Upper Egyptian/North Sudan origin of the amarna mummies.
Bejas shares a tight closeness with them.

I dont think that they're is a group of Beja looking bantus in inner Africa...
lets talk about "convergent evolution" then...

---

But that is RETARDED given the evidence we have at hand. There is similar evidence that tells us Jews in Southern African that LOOK JUST LIKE THEIR BANTU SPEAKING NEIGHBORS carry significant Frequencies of Haplogroup J? There is evidence the tells us some Central Africans (LOOKING JUST LIKE THEIR Central African NEIGHBORS) Carry very high levels of presumable "Eurasian" Male lineages...sometimes encompassing nearly the ENTIRE male line.

It doensnt matter what your feeble mind "thinks" is possible, This is what has be demonstrated by Genetics.

You have people that LOOK LIKE THIS and have "Asian DNA"



If this is possible OUTSIDE of Africa then you best believe that someone INSIDE the African continent can have that same phenotype and have any combination of autosomal ancestry that exists nearly anywhere on the continent. And Please, you speak of "ostelogic studies" - Do you actually know what those studies state? LOL YOU, (Like Manu who has long disappeared) need to go back and read all the studies and ever bit of information that has been posted in this thread. Look at what the markers are used for and you can check them YOURSELF even among Sudanese STR markers WHICH INCLUDE 2 Beja groups!

ALso in that study, Why do the 2 Beja groups sit close to Nilotics?
While your at it research how Eastern Sudanic speakers were absorbed by the Beja and Eastern Sudanic (Nilo-Saharan) Loan words into Proto-Egyptian......See you in a month from now.

Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
Huh?

A
Put in the 8STR and plug ANY combination of number to the other unknown STRs and you end up with Sub-saharan African. Funny thing is Levantine is so low down on the list.

Next . . .the early Europeans. LOL!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] :: Goddamn . . While I still have my reservations about DNA Tribes, /QB]

---

---

Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

• Hb S can be informative of either African or Indian
  ancestry. Hb S can pinpoint a particular African
  region, either greater SW Nigeria region (Benin
  haplotype), greater Sene-Gambian W.Africa region
  (Senegal haplotype), greater central Africa (Bantu
  haplotype) or the Cameroon locality (Cameroon haplotype).
  See the thread African, or Near Eastern and Southern European connections via HbS.
  
  
  Adapted from Ragusa et al 1990
  
  Which haplotype did the pre-dynastic mummies have and
  did Tut have sickle cell or did he succumb to malaria?

---

LMAO!

i thought TUT had the Benin sickle cell which seems to be inexistant in Southern Africa?

---

Hb S and miniSTRs are different types of informative
DNA. Modern Egyptians mainly have Benin Hb S and that
fact is extrapolated to ancient Egyptians and hence Tut.

One must know how to read DNAtribes Table 1 MLIs
if one wishes to comment on or apply its information.
It tells us Tut most likely matches Southern Africa
and the African Great Lakes but it does not exclude
Tropical West Africa the 3rd likeliest match.



Tut's Tropical West Africa MLI score is 314.
That's higher than both the SA and AGL scores for Amenhotep III.
It exceeds all mummies' Southern Africa scores except Thuya's.
It exceeds all mummies' African Great Lakes scores except Akhenaton's.

popSTR shows actual population frequencies with Tut's miniSTR alleles
* D13S317=12 is of high frequency in TWA
* D2S1338=16,26 of high frequency in TWA
* D18S51=19 is of high frequency in TWA

Tut has 4 TWA high freq alleles including two
allele pairs. Tut having Benin Hb S only agrees
with miniSTR. They both are mutually supportive.

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

• As when looking into DNAtribes last month it still
  holds their arriving at group assignments is not
  a statistical mystery. Once a good size number
  of global samples exist it's simple interpolation.
  
  Each sample has it's own profile of alleles.
  Certain regions will have a higher number of
  the same or very near the same profilee over
  samples in a limited geography. Unlike not for
  profit peer reviewed scientific reports, DNAtribes
  is not publishing the allele data associated with
  the geographies.
  
  For customer paid reports DNAtribes uses either
  15, 21 or 27 STR autosomes to assign a profile
  which is then checked against so many individual
  populations in their database.
  
  For the Amarna mummy article DNAtribes used
  a stripped down 8 loci profie which in this
  case we know includes D13S317, D7S820, D2S1338,
  D21S11, D16S539, D18S51, CSF1PO, FGA. We know
  the values of these polymorphic microsatellites and
  anybody can compare and match these to a pop db
  (eg., DNAtribes lets on that both D18S51=19 and
  D21S11=34 are African specific markers by frequency).
  
  a Identified as Tiye
  b Identified as Akhenaten
  
  
  I am confident of the basic validity of DNAtribes'
  findings on the nDNA STR lineages of the Amarna
  mummies but I do note their Table 1 indices for
  Yuya do not list the Americas populations circled
  on Yuya's regional analysis map Appendix Figure 3.
  Perhaps it is just a glitch.
  
  
  
  
  
  I see no reason to distrust DNAtribes' science behind
  the region matching in their January 1, 2012 article.
  
  I commend DNAtribes for not making a press release
  touting their find the way less reputable companies
  have done even though DNAtribes' analysis is without
  doubt based on the actual raw data (not screen shots)
  of Hawass and the Egyptian laboratories report as in
  JAMA. 2010;303(7):638-647.
  
  .

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
but I do note their Table 1 indices for
Yuya do not list the Americas populations circled
on Yuya's regional analysis map Appendix Figure 3.
Perhaps it is just a glitch.

---

quote:

---

Modern diaspora populations with substantial African
ancestry:

African (Spain) (132)
African-American (194)
African-American (258)
African-American (383)
African-American (Alabama, U.S.A.) (124)
African-American (Bahamas) (157)
African-American (California, U.S.A.) (200)
African-American (Canada) (358)
African-American (Connecticut, U.S.A.) (100)
African-American (Florida, U.S.A.) (94)
African-American (Illinois, U.S.A.) (153)
African-American (Indiana, U.S.A.) (190)
African-American (Jamaica) (194)
African-American (Minnesota, U.S.A.) (150)
African-American (New York, U.S.A.) (150)
African-American (South Carolina, U.S.A.) (98)
African-American (Trinidad) (80)
African-American (U.S.A.) (210)
African-American (U.S.A.) (7419)
African-American (Virginia, U.S.A.) (199)
Afro-Brazilian (100)
Afro-Caribbean (Abaco, Bahamas) (111)
Afro-Caribbean (Eleuthera, Bahamas) (112)
Afro-Caribbean (Exuma, Bahamas) (92)
Afro-Caribbean (Grand Bahama, Bahamas) (133)
Afro-Caribbean (Long Island, Bahamas) (87)
Afro-Caribbean (United Kingdom) (190)
Afro-Colombian (123)
Afro-Ecuadorian (104)
Amazonian (Brazil) (100)
Amazonian (Brazil) (100)
Araraquara, Brazil (55)
Bahia, Brazil (150)
Brazil (137,161)
Brazilian (13000)
Brazilian (100)
Brazilian (162)
Brazilian (695)
Brazilian (Santa Catarina, Brazil) (160)
Cape Verde (100)
Cape Verde (107)
Garifuna (Black Carib) (Bajamar, Honduras) (52)
Garifuna (Black Carib) (Corozal, Honduras) (57)
Garifuna (Black Carib) (Iriona, Honduras) (65)
Haiti (111)
Jamaica (119)
Mato Grosso do Sul, Brazil (208)
Mixed (South Africa) (97)
Moroccan (Belgium) (205)
New Providence, Bahamas (221)
Northern Rio de Janeiro State, Brazil (494)
Paraiba, Brazil (323)
Parana, Brazil (4076)
Pernambuco, Brazil (546)
Puerto Rican (Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A.) (205)
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (300)
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (234)
Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil (104)
Sao Paolo (Brazil) (100)
Sao Paolo (Brazil) (100)
Sergipe, Brazil (752)

---

http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-africa.html

The biggest Mesoamerican peak seems to be located where Belize is, a nation with a substantial presence of diasporal Africans. The lefthand North American peak (Arizona?) is marked by several symbols on their diasporal population map, I see in it (the vague symbol sandwitched between the two triangles) either a Latin American or African diasporal symbol.

The right hand (North American) peak is positioned where even more diasporal population symbals are jammed, but in that region (Minnesota, South Dakota??) several diasporal African and Latin American symbols can be found as well, with the diasporal African symbol perhaps the closest to where that right hand North American peak is (Note that their ''population with substantial African ancestry'' list includes African Americans from Minnesota):

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
I always thought that the Egyptians were more Nilotic then Afrasan and the way they built there houses is just one clue to this FACT.

---

Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omo Baba:

The Armana mummies family tree

---

Akhenaten and the Younger Lady are full sibs.
Amenhotep III is their father, Tiye their mother.
Compare and contrast the mother and children.
We must be careful when making statements
about their DNAtribes MLI scores and geographies.



This has nothing to do with Omo Baba but some are
making the mistake of imagining the high MLI scores
means the mummy belongs to that geography when
all that's implied is the mummy's profile and/or
alleles are the same as found in certain current
populations located in those geographies.

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omo Baba:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
What I also getting at is. .

If DNATribes can take published data (JAMA) and come to that conclusion why couldn’t or wouldn’t other genetic testing companies do the same thing.

In fact why can’t the layman? I am coming across a few sites that can process this type of data. I know DNA Tribes says that they have sometype of “proprietary” type software algorithm but that should not be too difficult for other experts in the field to duplicate or simulate.

---

You can also try PopAffiliator. It only take a minimum of 9 STR loci though but adding a 9th STR data as dummy won't be difficult if you know what you're doing.

http://cracs.fc.up.pt/~nf/popaffiliator2/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by astenb:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
Huh?

A
Put in the 8STR and plug ANY combination of number to the other unknown STRs and you end up with Sub-saharan African. Funny thing is Levantine is so low down on the list.

Next . . .the early Europeans. LOL!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] :: Goddamn . . While I still have my reservations about DNA Tribes, /QB]

---

---

Wowzers, its that strong huh? Can you link me to the site where you input that data. I have seen a few, many are very tedious

---

Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omo Baba:

The Armana mummies family tree

---

Akhenaten and the Younger Lady are full sibs.
Amenhotep III is their father, Tiye their mother.
Compare and contrast the mother and children.
We must be careful when making statements
about their DNAtribes MLI scores and geographies.



This has nothing to do with Omo Baba but some are
making the mistake of imagining high MLI scores
means the mummy belongs to that geographic when
all that's implied is the mummy's profile and/or
alleles are the same as found in certain current
populations. [/QB]

---

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:

LOL, No Wonder Perahu has caught ghost lately, I guess he has no where to turn to now that his idol Dienekes has changed his mind about the Egyptians. LOL

---

What do you mean? What have your heard about Pair'onuts? Just curious. I couldn't help but notice he is awfully silent and so is Castrated after his 'capoid' debunking.

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

Speaking of Great Lakes affinities...

I recall Ehret saying in his Civilizations of Africa that early Afrasan people lived in houses with flat roofs and rectangular floor plans whereas early Nilo-Saharan people lived in round-walled houses similar to most people's stereotype of a "sub-Saharan" hut. The remains of early predynastic Egyptian houses have been described as round-walled, which is more similar to the Nilo-Saharan than Afrasan building style; it wasn't until Naqada II when houses with rectangular plans became predominant. This along with the Great Lakes genetic affinity found in the Amarna mummies convinces me that the Egyptians were originally of Nilo-Saharan heritage and that the Afrasan influences came later.

---

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
I always thought that the Egyptians were more Nilotic then Afrasan and the way they built there houses is just one clue to this FACT.

---

Linguistics aside, I too have long perceived a particularly close relationship between the Egyptians and Nilotic peoples. They not only share the same semi-nomadic cattle-herding heritage but the very institution of divine kingship which was so fundamental to Egyptian civilization was of Sudanic origin according to Ehret. Then you have the super-"negroid" limb proportions which are characteristic of Nilotes. The Egyptians may have adopted a language and some cultural traits from Afrasans, but the Nilotic component is probably older.

---

Posts: 214 | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by astenb:

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

Huh?

A
Put in the 8STR and plug ANY combination of number to the other unknown STRs and you end up with Sub-saharan African. Funny thing is Levantine is so low down on the list.

Next . . .the early Europeans. LOL!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

:: Goddamn . . While I still have my reservations about DNA Tribes,

---

---

Wowzers, its that strong huh? Can you link me to the site where you input that data. I have seen a few, many are very tedious

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by africurious:
If you think about it, 1 language had to serve as the national language and that would've been determined either by the language of the politically dominant group at dynastic formation or/and the language(s) spoken by the majority or otherwise major portion of AE inhabitants.

---

Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:

but I do note their Table 1 indices for
Yuya do not list the Americas populations circled
on Yuya's regional analysis map Appendix Figure 3.
Perhaps it is just a glitch.

---

The smaller New World peaks seen on Yuya's MLI map are likely explicable by the presence of African ancestry in some of the populations that reside there:

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri:
If so, then should not be unique to Yuya.

What African allele does Yuya have
but none of the other mummies have
that his should show in New World blacks
but none of the other mummies show there
except his daughter the Elder Lady (Tiye?)?

---

If I'm reading this right, this explanation fits Yuya perfectly, as he does appear to have alleles from his parents or (great)grandparents not seen in members of his offspring listed above. Some (eg, D7S820=6) only resurface in Tut's stillborn, not considered by DNA Tribes, while others are unique to him, from him downwards (eg, D13S317=13, D16S539=10, FGA=25, D18S51=12).

The same can be said about some of Thuya's alleles.

Why do you re-list the symbols?

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

---

Originally posted by africurious:
If you think about it, 1 language had to serve as the national language and that would've been determined either by the language of the politically dominant group at dynastic formation or/and the language(s) spoken by the majority or otherwise major portion of AE inhabitants.

---

I've entertained the possibility that the Egyptians were originally predominantly Nilotic but were somehow conquered or otherwise politically dominated by a small number of Afrasans circa Naqada II, roughly like how the Anglo-Saxons conquered the Celts in Britain. Unfortunately this scenario sounds disturbingly like Petrie's Dynastic Race hypothesis even if the hypothetical invaders were African rather than Asiatic.

---

Its not that simple. Dont think of it in terms of the conquerors and the conquered. It is the long term presence of Afraisan speaking people probably along the red sea coast/hills his pushing West toward the Nile Valley and the LONGER term occupation of Nilo-Saharan speakers in the Sahara pushing East toward the Nile. The constant advance, retreat and mixture of these two groups. Nilo-Saharan were the first cattle pastoralist and spread this technology to Afriasians while the opposite is true for Ovacaprines (linguistic evidence). An image is not substitute but :




All Afraisians are not the same. And all Nilo-Saharans in the Nile valley were not the same. - See Tishkoff for details.

Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KING:
osirion

Are you saying that if they did more genetic testing on Cushites, we would see greater links to The Great Lakes regions and Southern Africa?

From what I recollect, the Egyptians had Benin Hap G which is non-existant in the Horn.

How would more studies on Cushites help open up the picture.

Peace

---

Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omo Baba:
^Actually Tut's stillborn did not inherit D7S820=6 from Yuya since he never passed it on to his daughter the Elder Lady (KV35EL).

---

Thanks for the correction.

@ Xyyman:

C'mon son, how you gon' say there is no similarity? This is exactly why you accused every newcomer and their momma of being Rasol, after he left; you don't recognize the patterns. Gotta look at the patterns baby! (said in Cole's voice, Gears of War 3)

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:
You know what??!! I have a gut feeling that Tut and his male line is Y-DNA Haplogroup A. In that Hassan et al study I believe there was 10% Hg-A in Northern Sudan. If these people came from so far south, most likely they are HG-A.

Now that is a going to be a bitch!!! Hope that don’t cause no beef with us PN2. LOL!!

I still don’t get it. Why it took so long to find this out, the data and all the tools and info was out there since Feb 2010. Is was as simple as taking the publish data (JAMA) and plugging it into one of the many “free” profiler software out there. And bingo!! Tut’s population identity.


What were Kieta and all these top level experts on AEians identity doing all this time??


BTW – I never once believed Tut was R1b. It made absolutely no fugkhing sense. Even when Clyde was trying to explain it away.

What is a shocker is that they align with South Africans first over Great Lakes people. Never believed they were Horner either.

Here is another twist. Now if Tut was R1b then that makes R1b a South African lineage. . .right? LOL!

---

Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:
Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.

---

Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by xyyman:

You know what??!! I have a gut feeling that Tut and his male line is Y-DNA Haplogroup A. In that Hassan et al study I believe there was 10% Hg-A in Northern Sudan. If these people came from so far south, most likely they are HG-A.

Now that is a going to be a bitch!!! Hope that don’t cause no beef with us PN2. LOL!!

I still don’t get it. Why it took so long to find this out, the data and all the tools and info was out there since Feb 2010. Is was as simple as taking the publish data (JAMA) and plugging it into one of the many “free” profiler software out there. And bingo!! Tut’s population identity.


What were Kieta and all these top level experts on AEians identity doing all this time??

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manu:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:
Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.

---

This is going to be very predictable: They are going to spam Tutsis.

---

This is what i exactly thought!
LMAO but they still dont look like northern cushites...

---

Afar Man


Bantu or west african (Jamacian)


They do look similar

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manu:
They do not look similar at all. Different hair-texture, different mouth and jaw shape, and a very different nose.

---

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by asante:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Manu:

quote:

---

Originally posted by KoKaKoLa:
Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.

---

This is going to be very predictable: They are going to spam Tutsis.

---

This is what i exactly thought!
LMAO but they still dont look like northern cushites...

---

Afar Man


Bantu or west african (Jamacian)


They do look similar

---

i dont think so..

---

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged |