quote: Didnt « Genetics » demonstrate that Tut carried the Y-R HG? I bet you were all mad, fussing, cussing and denying, right?
No, White folks bullshitting with a screenshot of god knows what TRIED to tell us king Tut was R1b.
quote: Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.
You are looking at it DUMBO. It has been slapping you in the face for like 8 pages now.
GENETIC RESULTS Tell me THESE people do. That is the MAIN point you cannot grasp! It doesnt matter how a population looks, genetics tells us who the population is closest to. Tut to me looks like a Buck tooth Somalian....HIS DNA is not similar to a buck tooth Somalian.....WHY because MORE than 3000 years ago his DNA was similar to some of the the people that were LEAVING the Nile Valley during the time he lived. Those ancestors are not concentrated in Somalia, but clustered around the Great Lakes area. I dont comment on the Genetic link with South African Bantu because I dont know about that. The Great Lakes sample though is specifically the Karamoja that I have pointed out.
quote: Nilotics ..or bantus? Make up your mind.. these 2 are differents.. its obvious that Bejas have more in common with Nilotics than they have with Bantus (who are inexistant in North Africa).
Bantu? NO WAY!
I have already pointed out that ancestry closer matching to Great Lakes is more prominent in the mummies than "Southern African" in whatever form it would be. You are so childish you think Ancient Egyptians only have ONE simple line of ancestry. YOu dont even know what you are looking at when its right in front of your face.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Man, guess what? There are little yellow circles unnoticeable 'till you zoom. This is really interesting stuff. What say ye?
Already seen them. Can't miss them when you zoom in on the New World with the intention to try to correlate those peaks with the triangles, circles and other legend symbols on that other map that displays DNA tribes' native and diasporal samples. I've been looking into those New World peaks on Yuya's map ever since you mentioned them in your writeup on P1 of this thread.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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People should be cautious with results obtained from low resolution STR analyses.
8 MiniFiler STRs not a matter of insufficient resolution.
A greater number of loci will only zero in on an ethnic group found in a region pointed to by the lesser number loci. They will indicate no new or additional major geographies.
Apparently even a 6 STR profile is enough to distinguish all of the below major ethnic origins per Lowe et al (2001).
ABSTRACT We report the use of DNA profiles from six STR loci for inferring the ethnic origin of a crime stain and discuss how such inference may be used as intelligence information to reduce the expected number of interviews to resolve a case. To enable this work, databases have been created for five British ethnic groups (Caucasians, Afro-Caribbeans, Indian sub-continentals, Southeast Asians and Middle Easterners) that together comprise 99.7% of the UK population.
Alex L Lowe, Andrew Urquhart, Lindsey A Foreman, Ian W Evett Inferring ethnic origin by means of an STR profile Forensic Science International; Volume 119, Issue 1 , Pages 17-22, 1 June 2001.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.
This is going to be very predictable: They are going to spam Tutsis.
This is what i exactly thought! LMAO but they still dont look like northern cushites...
Afar Man
Bantu or west african (Jamacian)
They do look similar
i dont think so..
Yes they do i dont get what the big problem is?
Like indicated Manu..they dont look similar.
_Different hairtype _Different noses _Different skin (color) _Different foreheads _Mavado is subject of a pronounced prognasthism
Different hair type - well so do these afar men
Different noses Yes the afar mans nose is wider
Different Skin color- Bitch are crazy blind or just plain stupid?
Forhead and prognasthism yes but im not saying they are identical im saying they look similar if you cannot see this im starting to question if your even african at all?
Posts: 1064 | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
^ Can you guys stop with this off-topic nonsense, and actually discuss the genetic results of these mummies instead.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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There is no point in arguing about these results. They are obviously flawed.
According to some low res STR analyses the Beja are 100% South Sudanese/Nilotic, which is obviously bullshit.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Manu:
quote:[/b]Originally posted by alTakruri:[/b]
8 MiniFiler STRs not a matter of insufficient resolution.
A 15 STR analysis claims the Beja are like pure Nilotes.
We report the genotypes of the 15 Identifiler microsatellite markers for 498 individuals from 18 Sudanese populations representing different ethnic and linguistic groups. The combined power of exclusion (PE) was 0.9999981, and the combined match probability was 1 in 7.4 × 1017. The genotype data from the Sudanese populations was combined with previously published genotype data from Egypt, Somalia and the Karamoja population from Uganda. The Somali population was found to be genetically distinct from the other northeast African populations. Individuals from northern Sudan clustered together with those from Egypt, and individuals from southern Sudan clustered with those from the Karamoja population. The similarity of the Nubian and Egyptian populations suggest that migration, potentially bidirectional, occurred along the Nile river Valley, which is consistent with the historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia.
And D21S11=34 in Sudan is 0.009.
Posts: 314 | From: Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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Very conflicting results between these two studies regarding the Beja.
Who told you those are the same Beja? Every sample will come out different just as "Egyptian Arabs" from Southern Egypt will be different from "Egyptian Arabs" in Port Siad.
There is Southern Egyptian STR data that you can find HERE
Go ahead and put in the STR data of the 18th dynasty and tell me if they are closer to them or the other samples available.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Yeah ive seen it. LMAO! This is a complete non-sense!
Let's be real.
1) Bejas are not nilotics 2) Amarna mummies were not from the Great lakes..Cape town..or even the pits of hell!
Until higher resolution analyses are done on these mummies many members here will continue to believe this crap.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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There is no point in arguing about these results. They are obviously flawed.
According to some low res STR analyses the Beja are 100% South Sudanese/Nilotic, which is obviously bullshit.
Yeah ive seen it. LMAO! This is a complete non-sense!
Let's be real.
1) Bejas are not nilotics 2) Amarna mummies were not from the Great lakes..Cape town..or even the pits of hell!
Nobody here has said the Amarna mummies are from the great lakes region. The entire conversation has gone over your puny head.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by astenb: Who told you those are the same Beja? Every sample will come out different just as "Egyptian Arabs" from Southern Egypt will be different from "Egyptian Arabs" in Port Siad.
There is Southern Egyptian STR data that you can find HERE
Go ahead and put in the STR data of the 18th dynasty and tell me if they are closer to them or the other samples available.
The Beja are quite homogeneous. Tishkoff et al. did not find any significant difference between two distant Beja groups.
As for the low res STR stuff, I think it's pretty useless for regional analyses.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by astenb: Who told you those are the same Beja? Every sample will come out different just as "Egyptian Arabs" from Southern Egypt will be different from "Egyptian Arabs" in Port Siad.
There is Southern Egyptian STR data that you can find HERE
Go ahead and put in the STR data of the 18th dynasty and tell me if they are closer to them or the other samples available.
The Beja are quite homogeneous. Tishkoff et al. did not find any significant difference between two distant Beja groups.
Listen up Lummox, NOT all Beja are the same just as not all Nubians are the same. I have actually been in the country and seen the difference between the Nubians. Not all Nilo-Saharans are the same....some are autosomally West African...more Horn African or Southern Sudanese.....or even something else.
Secondly You are intellectually LAZY and dont know what is going on. WHY have you NOT compared the Amarana STR data with that of the Southern Egyptians? You dont want to do the work and research....you are looking for someone to spoon feed you the answer you want to hear.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
The Beja live in a relatively small area of Sudan, they are obviously not that different from each other. Are you retarded?
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by asante: Different hair type - well so do these afar men
EH...Still not nappy...
quote:Different noses Yes the afar mans nose is wider
Yeah probably...in your dreams
quote:Different Skin color- Bitch are crazy blind or just plain stupid?
They dont have the same skin color.... The Afar man skincolor is not so different from the ones of the Dravidians...
quote:Forhead and prognasthism yes but im not saying they are identical im saying they look similar if you cannot see this im starting to question if your even african at all?
Puh-lease! Im african and i dont see similarities between the two.
Dude, the first two on the right are nappy. They are the definition of nappy.
Better comparison.
Bantu from Mozambique
Dravidians
Oh yes, the skin color is so different.
Posts: 116 | From: Birmingham, AL | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Manu: The Beja live in a relatively small area of Sudan, they are obviously not that different from each other. Are you retarded?
The "Beja" live in Egypt, Sudan, Eritrea AND Ethiopia.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by astenb: The "Beja" live in Egypt, Sudan, Eritrea AND Ethiopia.
I believe the same error is happening to these Amarna mummies.
Fvck your "beliefs"
EVen if they are low res, shouldnt the Results match with Southern Egyptian STRs? Actually maybe they do? Why dont you check the data with the Southern Egyptian data? I cant believe you haven't done that. Why are you sitting here argument when you could be doing the research directly at the source.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Very conflicting results between these two studies regarding the Beja.
Actually when comparing the same thing and presented in similar graphics Bibiker 15 IdentiFiler STRs fig. 6 and Tishkoff 848 microsatellites fig. S4 both cluster Beja (Hadendowa, BanuAmir) and Nilots (Dinka, Shiluk, Nuer, Nyimang) together.
Below is a zoom in on Beja & Nilots shown above
Below see Bibiker's 15 STRs confirming Tishkoff's 848 u-sats on Beja and Nilot Sudanese.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Actually when comparing the same thing and presented in similar graphics Bibiker 15 IdentiFiler STRs fig. 6 and Tishkoff 848 microsatellites fig. S4 both cluster Beja (Hadendowa, BanuAmir) and Nilotes (Dinka, Shiluk, Nuer, Nyimang) together.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Figure S4 from Tishkoff is not a PCA chart at all - so it's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Look at the structure and PCA results of that study.
The Beja do not cluster anywhere near Nilotes, which is highly conflicting with Babiker et al.'s low resolution STR study.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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Look at the map. Beja have assorted mixture of other Africans.
So what? That was not even the point.
We were talking about whether different Beja sub-groups were similar (which they are, according to Tishkoff, two geographically distant Beja groups were identical).
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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Look at the map. Beja have assorted mixture of other Africans.
So what? That was not even the point.
We were talking about whether different Beja sub-groups were similar (which they are, according to Tishkoff, two geographically distant Beja groups were identical).
I think you're confused.
You were wondering why Beja cluster with Nilo-Saharans weren't you? On the map Kenya NS, Tanzania NS, Kenya AA, Tanzania AA, and Ethiopia AA have nearly identical African population component (Purple) with the Beja if you discount the North African component (Blue).
I mostly agree with you. A minor correction to the Tishkoff plot, Het/Homozygousity is on the X-axis only. A high heterozygousity implies low homozygousity and vice versa. This plot is a correlation of the two genetic distance measures of which past group population expansions and bottleneck events may be inferred. Both Beja groups are closest to each other and then next to the Beta Israel Ethiopians. This is obviously not shown in the Tishkoff figure and is not comparable to a PC or MDS plot.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Now Show me pics of BANTUS that look like Afars,Bejas, Oromos and Somalis. Please make me laugh.
This is going to be very predictable: They are going to spam Tutsis.
The problem is Tutsis are still Bantu with no admixture from the Horn. Also they are not the only ones. There several other Bantu groups including a people in the Congo whom European colonizers even considered 'Hamitic'. Either way, what does it matter to you? ALL are African peoples including the ancient Egyptians. I don't know what the hell you're arguing about.
Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I mostly agree with you. A minor correction to the Tishkoff plot, Het/Homozygousity is on the X-axis only. A high heterozygousity implies low homozygousity and vice versa. This plot is a correlation of the two genetic distance measures of which past group population expansions and bottleneck events may be inferred. Both Beja groups are closest to each other and then next to the Beta Israel Ethiopians. This is obviously not shown in the Tishkoff figure and is not comparable to a PC or MDS plot.
Thanks.
Babiker et al.'s low res STR analyses on the Beja are indeed highly conflicting with those of Tishkoff et al.
Most posters here take the DNAtribes low res STR analyses as gospel for dogmatic/ideological reasons. It's quite obvious that they are too low res for accurate regional analyses.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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posted
The irony. You've been protesting the results since they first came out. Your arguments are all ad hoc which is why you didn't present that study in the first place (you were scouring the net for anything that you thought would agree with you and obfuscate things).
quote:Originally posted by Manu:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Actually when comparing the same thing and presented in similar graphics Bibiker 15 IdentiFiler STRs fig. 6 and Tishkoff 848 microsatellites fig. S4 both cluster Beja (Hadendowa, BanuAmir) and Nilotes (Dinka, Shiluk, Nuer, Nyimang) together.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Figure S4 from Tishkoff is not a PCA chart at all - so it's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Look at the structure and PCA results of that study.
The Beja do not cluster anywhere near Nilotes, which is highly conflicting with Babiker et al.'s low resolution STR study.
Surely you are comparing apples to oranges then since DNAtribes did not use a PCA plot so any extrapolation on your part is just pseudo-babble.
About your "low resolution" test:
"The combined power of exclusion (PE) was 0.9999981, and the combined match probability was 1 in 7.4 × 1017."
^As applied to regional affiliation, the results are not in doubt. Please refute the math and try again. Besides, Astenb's point is sound. You have no proof that either Beja sample was representative or that if pooled they'd prove homogenous. This is wild speculation and wishful thinking on your part. Beja-speakers are diverse and live over a wide geographical expanse. Your crap argument falls short for these reasons.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^What DNAtribes can accomplish with the standard base 15 STR profile:
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.:
^"Low resolution" my azz. But I give it up to Manu for trying so hard to defend his ideological beliefs.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Manu: Low resolution STR analyses have shown the Beja to be unmixed Southern Sudanese Nilotes.
While High(er) resolution STR analyses show them to be typical Northern Cushites.
We can conclude from this that low resolution STR studies (i.e. this recent DNAtribes analysis) AREN'T RELIABLE).
You people only continue to believe they are highly accurate for dogmatic/ideological reasons.
You don't even know what you're talking about. Unlike Tishkoff, the object of the study was not looking for levels of "admixture" or ancestral clusters. The reason Tishkoff and co used so many markers is because they were comparing thousands of individuals from nearly 200 extant populations! Besides, as noted, you've presented nothing to show that those Beja matches are inaccurate even IF Tishkoff found slightly different results from a DIFFERENT (and larger?) sample.
Here we are concerned with seven related mummies and based on their STR profiles and probability rates associated with these analyses there is no doubt their closest "match" is with extant Africans. The pooled samples DNAtribes use are skewed and more microsatellite data is needed to pin point particular population affinities, but the regional matches are without question and you have no statistics to refute it so stop whining.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
Both of the graphs from Bibiker and Tishkoff are representative of genetic distance measurements. The Beta Israel are the truncated BE in the below.
Bibiker and Tishkoff made graphs (i.e., a plot of x and y axis measures) that though from different methodologies display the same fact that genetic distances distinctly cluster Beja and Nilot Sudanese together.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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The Beja do NOT cluster with South Sudanese people on STRUCTURE and PCA analyses.
You do not even understand what you are showing us.
Please carefully read the description below that graph, then we can continue to discuss things (HINT: homozygousity has nothing to do with genetic distance).
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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posted
You need glasses and a working brain. If this was a PC/MDS plot, the Hadandawa/Banuamir Beja diamonds would be next to or overlapping with the Beta Israel closest.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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Why dont you check the data with the Southern Egyptian data?
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