quote:Whether there was an actual battle for Lower Egypt and whether the palette is an accurate portrayal of such a battle OR that the palette is purely symbolic is what in speculation. But there is no doubt the Palette describes conflict between a victorious Upper Egypt and a defeated Lower Egypt.
Indeed, the explanation of Narmer's enemies being Egyptians fits well with their goatee beards, which likely denotes that they were of (Northern) Egyptian royal descend. Along with the papyrus symbolism, later myths about a Lower Egyptian pre-dynastic kingdom, supposedly on par with an upper Egyptian one, the sudden association of the Upper Egyptian red crown, with Lower Egypt, it presents a strong case for the hypothesis that the Egyptians created the idea of a pre-dynastic Lower Egyptian kingdom, to make things fit the way they pre-conceived the world. This merging of actual history, and fiction, had to start somewhere, and judging by the fact that the Red crown suddenly became associated with Lower Egypt in the Proto-dynastic period, we would expect to see art work reflecting this story about a lower Egyptian kingdom, being violently subdued, in a way they remembered it later on.
Of course, the Narmer palette just depicts random conflict, and has nothing to do with the above. Forget about placing narrative artwork in a wider context, and taking into account what was happening in Egypt at the time. Asiatics are more exciting. Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: don't pay attention to Djehooti's lies about ther being "no doubt" read what Ian Shaw said in Oxford History of Ancient Egypt:
Okay?! And please cite exactly where I am contradicted!! I never said the palette depicted a real event, twit! I merely said the palette depicted Lower Egyptians as the enemy. Funny how your source even confirms that the enemies portrayed were Lower Egyptians and NOWHERE did it say anything about them being Asiatics, dummy!
quote:close thread
3 points lioness
Apparently you missed the part where Troll Patrol said he HAS seen images on Ramses temple of native Egyptians being smitten, and we just told you several times that pharaohs acknowledged domestic enemies as well as foreign ones enough to be included in the 7 bows!
closed mind = 0 points for lyinass! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: As the knowledgable people know, Egyptians were smited all the time by Pharaoh's.
Yes, this is why you will find a temple by Ramses dedicated to this.
It would be interesting to see this, as I haven't heard about it, but it would certainly not be an anomaly. There are many depictions of Egyptian rebels and warlords getting the boot from their king.
What happens when you click on those links I posted?
Well some times you do see images on the net taken be foreigners. But its forbidden to take pics in that temple. Like it is in many temples.
I will email you about it.
When I clicked the link it redirected me to the root source of the webpage.
It contains the same hi res image of the other side of Narmers palette I posted earlier. I was wrong though, the priest figure is not the only one sporting fine hair strands. Two of the smaller figures in front of him are displaying the same fine hair strands, in the back of their necks.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: As the knowledgable people know, Egyptians were smited all the time by Pharaoh's.
Yes, this is why you will find a temple by Ramses dedicated to this.
It would be interesting to see this, as I haven't heard about it, but it would certainly not be an anomaly. There are many depictions of Egyptian rebels and warlords getting the boot from their king.
What happens when you click on those links I posted?
Well some times you do see images on the net taken be foreigners. But its forbidden to take pics in that temple. Like it is in many temples.
I will email you about it.
When I clicked the link it redirected me to the root source of the webpage.
It contains the same hi res image of the other side of Narmers palette I posted earlier. I was wrong though, the priest figure is not the only one sporting fine hair strands. Two of the smaller figures in front of him are displaying the same fine hair strands, in the back of their necks.
This link does work.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This shows how ignorant you are of the symbolism. The head growing out of the papyrus is symbolic of the DELTA i.e. Lower Egypt.
I'm quite familiar with the often made Upper Egypt-Lower Egypt conflict narrative about the Narmer Palette, and the symbols you referenced may well speak to that, but if I recall, you said that you were one of the people who link the Pharaohs adversaries with "Libyans"; so, where and how do they come into this picture?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Ancient Egypt: a very short introduction By Ian Shaw
I may have missed it: Does the Narmer Palette have hieroglyphs spelling out the "Tehenu", and where?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ancient Egypt: a very short introduction By Ian Shaw [/QB]
Interesting info but I am still having problems digesting the symbols. The catfish smiting three rows of foreign captives identified with the same word tjehenw. Can you zoom in on these areas and post them here espeacially the word tjehenw. In the mean timeI will continue try to locate these symbols. Thanks
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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Looks like someone really knew how to braid hair back then.lol!
That same thought ran across my mind also.
There is a theory about fiber plant wigs. But I think it was braided hair.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Ivory cylinder from Hierakonpolis (Ashmolean Mus. E3915) Memphis was the ideal location for controlling all the Delta as well as the important trade routes to the Sinai and Canaan; the Libyans (and the western Delta inhabitants) were at hand too; Narmer took 120.000 prisoners and 1.822.000 cattle and goats from this region according to his Hierakonpolis macehead reliefs
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Comb, Amarna, Dynasty 18, reign of Akhenaten (1353-1336 BCE), Wood
Egyptians carved double-sided combs much like modern examples with thick teeth on one side and fine teeth along the other. Ancient hairstyles, especially those of women, were often quite elaborate. Combs like this would have been used for both natural hair and for wigs which were worn by both men and women. Photo: University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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After reading your essay which according to you the AE was of Nordic orign is not true. Most archeologist now agree that the Pharaonic civilization is entirely indigenous. Inregards to the Libyans you mentioned that in ancient Greek literature the Libyans are also described as red haired or blonde and during that era I can see that being true. I beleive these were a minority which lived on the libyan coast who later called themselves Libyans. The indigenous Libyans had and african origin and their language was Afro-Asiatic however there seems to have been some white foreigners who settled on the Libyan coast throughout ancient Libyan history. This can be seen in the Seti and Ramses tombs in which the Libyans appears on the tombs as a racial mixed offspring. If you have mixed races then there has to be pure races and that indigenous pure race of libyans were african.
The assertion of Narmar was a Nordic libyan however to me seems to be far fetch however at least one figure on the platte could fit into your agenda of thinking and it is this figure which motivated me to start this thread. If this figure is an white Libyan which I have seen in the latter dynasties 18 and 19th but its the first time I have ever seen one especailly in the predynasty era. As a matter of fact never seen one in the old dynasties either.
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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posted
Let's not allow the trolls to side-track us from the topic which is Narmer's Palette and NOT the ethnic identity of Egyptians or Libyans who were obviously Africans and not Asiatics and definitely not Nords!!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
This shows how ignorant you are of the symbolism. The head growing out of the papyrus is symbolic of the DELTA i.e. Lower Egypt.
I'm quite familiar with the often made Upper Egypt-Lower Egypt conflict narrative about the Narmer Palette, and the symbols you referenced may well speak to that, but if I recall, you said that you were one of the people who link the Pharaohs adversaries with "Libyans"; so, where and how do they come into this picture?
I didn't say they were Libyans per-say but my theory is that the predynastic Delta people were of Libyan origin that is from directly west of the Delta and not necessarily Tehenu who were Libyans proper who were located southwest of the Delta. I'll explain this all in Takruri's thread soon enough.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Looks like someone really knew how to braid hair back then.lol!
In fact they still do.
Hmmm, do I see a club there in the sand?
LOL I think this belongs in the DNATribes thread showing more connections to peoples around the Great Lakes.
quote:
Modern Egyptian girl.
Wow. Didn't know modern Egyptians were that in tune with their ancient [African] heritage outside of the rural villages. No doubt this would piss off the Arab Muktabas.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ancient Egypt: a very short introduction By Ian Shaw
Interesting info but I am still having problems digesting the symbols. The catfish smiting three rows of foreign captives identified with the same word tjehenw. Can you zoom in on these areas and post them here espeacially the word tjehenw. In the mean time I will continue try to locate these symbols. Thanks
The Egyptian word for catfish is 'narmer' which was the name of the dynasty 0 king. You see, the Egyptian kings like so many other African kings and chieftains were totemic using the names of animal or plant totems. Tjehenw is the Egyptian name for Libyans or rather a group of Libyans they were in contact with during predynastic times.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ And exactly what's your point lying b|tch??! GTFOH if you have nothing intelligent to contribute! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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1. The Top register: In the center are the glyphs "Nar"(catfish) - "mer" (chisel) encased in the serekh or glyph for royal palace. This central hieroglyph is flanked on both sides by [African] water buffaloes with the faces of women. The water buffalo is the totem of Bat a goddess of the 7th nome of Upper Egypt who is said to have two faces and is no doubt a protective deity of the king Narmer is from Upper Egypt.
2. The central register from left to right: There is a man in the background presumably the king's servant. He holds the king's sandals on his left arm while he holds a kettle on his right hand. There is a star glyph behind the servant's head which is symbolic of Seshat goddess of knowledge and matron of writing and records along with another glyph beneath it. This may suggest the servant is also a scribe. The king, Narmer himself is of course at the forefront in his royal attire wearing the royal hedjet (white headdress) of Upper Egypt and a short skirt with a tassel in back that looks like an ox's tail. The ox's tail is a common adornment of kings in Africa either worn on the back of their skirts in the case of east African kings or held by hand as accessory by West African kings and chieftains. Even Narmer's skirt is decorated four ox heads with streamers coming down. He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand. This same ritual of human sacrifice by the king is seen many cultures of Africa including West Africa where Diop has pointed out the same custom where the king's servant would hold the king's sandals as well as a kettle of water used for ablutions to cleanse the king after his sacrifice. Right above the kneeling foe is the glyph for marsh land (the Delta) that is a piece of land with papyrus growing out. The glyph has the head of a man which no doubt represents the god of the Delta (in Egyptian belief, land deities are usually male). A hawk symbolic of the Upper Egyptian god Mentu (or Heru) is perched on the papyrus and holds a rope like object whose end attaches to the nose of the Delta god. The Egyptians like many Africans believed the nose is where the breath of life usually enters. This indicates that Mentu or Heru has literally dominated the life of the Delta. The glyphs behind the sacrificial victim's head are translated as "was shu", meaning 'first' or 'number one' and 'water' or 'lake'. Some scholars say this was the name of the victim while others think it may describe the actual place of the sacrifice or both-- the man being sacrificed is the ruler of the area.
3. The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face. The first glyph from the left represents a fortress or town and then the second glyph represents being thrown down or overthrown.
1. The Top Register: (The same as the front side)-- the central hieroglyphs of the king's name 'Narmer' encased in a serekh and flanked by Bat's faces.
2. The 2nd Register from left to right: There is an unidentified glyph encased in a box just above the servant's head. Again the servant goes about holding the kings sandals on his left arm and a kettle in his right hand his personal glyph of Seshat and another glyph in front of him. After which is king Narmer this time wearing the the royal deshret (red headdress) of Lower Egypt while holding his mace in his left hand and a flail in his right hand across his chest in royal fashion. The glyphs for his name appear in front of his face. After that there is a figure with long hair and female's attire indicating that it is either a woman (perhaps the king's queen or princess) or a cross-dressing shaman (king's priest) holding a ritual object of her own with two ends hanging over. The glyphs for Djet or Thet appear in front of him/her. Then there are four men who are standard bearers. Each standard bearing a totem. The first is a placenta and umbilical cord indicative of birth and beginnings, the second is a jackal standing on something, and the last two are birds presumably raptors of some kind. Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet. Above the mutilated bodies is a glyph that probably means gate and then a bird (perhaps Mentu or Heru). There is a boat with its sails down perhaps indicating a journey down river and right above is again the bird this time perched on the glyph was meaning "first" or "prime".
3. The Third Register: Two men, one flanked on each side and each holding a rope tied the neck of a feline animal with a long serpentine neck. The creatures serpent necks entwine. According to Wally, the twisting long necks represent the word "Kaes" or "Kasu" which means 'to bind or fetter,' Qes/Kes - restrain, bind. This is obviously symbolic of the union of the two lands-- Upper and Lower Egypt.
4. The Bottom Register: Lastly a male ox or bull rams into and smashes a fortress while trampling on a man. The bull is symbolic of king Narmer who like all other Egyptian kings (as well as other African kings) carries the epithet of "Great Bull".
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: ^^^ apparently you are too dumb to get the point,
lyinass productions
Apparently YOU are dumb if you think I can understand some obtuse point YOUR lyingass tries to make with two pictures and no words. B|tch we all know your game and it ain't working. Get back to topic or leave. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand...
The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face....
Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet....
Notice how none of this is put into the context of a civil war
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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1. The Top register: In the center are the glyphs "Nar"(catfish) - "mer" (chisel) encased in the serekh or glyph for royal palace. This central hieroglyph is flanked on both sides by [African] water buffaloes with the faces of women. The water buffalo is the totem of Bat a goddess of the 7th nome of Upper Egypt who is said to have two faces and is no doubt a protective deity of the king Narmer is from Upper Egypt.
2. The central register from left to right: There is a man in the background presumably the king's servant. He holds the king's sandals on his left arm while he holds a kettle on his right hand. There is a star glyph behind the servant's head which is symbolic of Seshat goddess of knowledge and matron of writing and records along with another glyph beneath it. This may suggest the servant is also a scribe. The king, Narmer himself is of course at the forefront in his royal attire wearing the royal hedjet (white headdress) of Upper Egypt and a short skirt with a tassel in back that looks like an ox's tail. The ox's tail is a common adornment of kings in Africa either worn on the back of their skirts in the case of east African kings or held by hand as accessory by West African kings and chieftains. Even Narmer's skirt is decorated four ox heads with streamers coming down. He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand. This same ritual of human sacrifice by the king is seen many cultures of Africa including West Africa where Diop has pointed out the same custom where the king's servant would hold the king's sandals as well as a kettle of water used for ablutions to cleanse the king after his sacrifice. Right above the kneeling foe is the glyph for marsh land (the Delta) that is a piece of land with papyrus growing out. The glyph has the head of a man which no doubt represents the god of the Delta (in Egyptian belief, land deities are usually male). A hawk symbolic of the Upper Egyptian god Mentu (or Heru) is perched on the papyrus and holds a rope like object whose end attaches to the nose of the Delta god. The Egyptians like many Africans believed the nose is where the breath of life usually enters. This indicates that Mentu or Heru has literally dominated the life of the Delta. The glyphs behind the sacrificial victim's head are translated as "was shu", meaning 'first' or 'number one' and 'water' or 'lake'. Some scholars say this was the name of the victim while others think it may describe the actual place of the sacrifice or both-- the man being sacrificed is the ruler of the area.
3. The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face. The first glyph from the left represents a fortress or town and then the second glyph represents being thrown down or overthrown.
1. The Top Register: (The same as the front side)-- the central hieroglyphs of the king's name 'Narmer' encased in a serekh and flanked by Bat's faces.
2. The 2nd Register from left to right: There is an unidentified glyph encased in a box just above the servant's head. Again the servant goes about holding the kings sandals on his left arm and a kettle in his right hand his personal glyph of Seshat and another glyph in front of him. After which is king Narmer this time wearing the the royal deshret (red headdress) of Lower Egypt while holding his mace in his left hand and a flail in his right hand across his chest in royal fashion. The glyphs for his name appear in front of his face. After that there is a figure with long hair and female's attire indicating that it is either a woman (perhaps the king's queen or princess) or a cross-dressing shaman (king's priest) holding a ritual object of her own with two ends hanging over. The glyphs for Djet or Thet appear in front of him/her. Then there are four men who are standard bearers. Each standard bearing a totem. The first is a placenta and umbilical cord indicative of birth and beginnings, the second is a jackal standing on something, and the last two are birds presumably raptors of some kind. Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet. Above the mutilated bodies is a glyph that probably means gate and then a bird (perhaps Mentu or Heru). There is a boat with its sails down perhaps indicating a journey down river and right above is again the bird this time perched on the glyph was meaning "first" or "prime".
3. The Third Register: Two men, one flanked on each side and each holding a rope tied the neck of a feline animal with a long serpentine neck. The creatures serpent necks entwine. According to Wally, the twisting long necks represent the word "Kaes" or "Kasu" which means 'to bind or fetter,' Qes/Kes - restrain, bind. This is obviously symbolic of the union of the two lands-- Upper and Lower Egypt.
4. The Bottom Register: Lastly a male ox or bull rams into and smashes a fortress while trampling on a man. The bull is symbolic of king Narmer who like all other Egyptian kings (as well as other African kings) carries the epithet of "Great Bull".
Thanks Djehuti for your informative post wish I was here to carry on this conversation. Most of the time I am unable to visit this site because of my wife and kids however when time permitts I will be here. My curiosity is genuine and appreciate any ifo on this Narmar palette. My understanding is that you believe the decapitated head represents a God not and individual and the smiten foes have libyan origins from the west. Interesting. Question what tribe are these Libyan people from and could they be of mixed ancestry or not. Next were do the Anu people fit into this event. I was thinking about them today but it seems like this palette occur after them am I right. Just a thought. Thanks again
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Let's not allow the trolls to side-track us from the topic which is Narmer's Palette and NOT the ethnic identity of Egyptians or Libyans who were obviously Africans and not Asiatics and definitely not Nords!!
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti:
This shows how ignorant you are of the symbolism. The head growing out of the papyrus is symbolic of the DELTA i.e. Lower Egypt.
I'm quite familiar with the often made Upper Egypt-Lower Egypt conflict narrative about the Narmer Palette, and the symbols you referenced may well speak to that, but if I recall, you said that you were one of the people who link the Pharaohs adversaries with "Libyans"; so, where and how do they come into this picture?
I didn't say they were Libyans per-say but my theory is that the predynastic Delta people were of Libyan origin that is from directly west of the Delta and not necessarily Tehenu who were Libyans proper who were located southwest of the Delta. I'll explain this all in Takruri's thread soon enough. [I]
Djehuti please post it here or give me the site of the Takruri's thread. Thanks
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: my theory is that the predynastic Delta people were of Libyan origin that is from directly west of the Delta and not necessarily Tehenu who were Libyans proper who were located southwest of the Delta. I'll explain this all in Takruri's thread soon enough. [I]
Djehooti agrees with me that they are not Egyptians.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand...
The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face....
Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet....
Notice how none of this is put into the context of a civil war
lioness please explain thanks
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ivory cylinder from Hierakonpolis (Ashmolean Mus. E3915) Memphis was the ideal location for controlling all the Delta as well as the important trade routes to the Sinai and Canaan; the Libyans (and the western Delta inhabitants) were at hand too; Narmer took 120.000 prisoners and 1.822.000 cattle and goats from this region according to his Hierakonpolis macehead reliefs
The circumstances from which the final unification arose can't be known: they might have been ferocious warfares or pacific relations cemented by marriages; but the relevant fact is that several years after these events had happened,the early kings of Egypt still held memory of the ancestral importance of centers as Nwbt (Naqada) and Nekhen (Hierakonpolis) so that they made the temples built therein object of worship and commemoration.
Furthermore, although it appears very likely that the 'conquest' of the Delta by the Upper Egypt chiefs had begun generations before Narmer, no evident sign of war-like activities can be inferred by the attestation of Ka and Scorpion in Lower Egypt.
The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear : Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event.
The most famous artifact of the Unification period is NARMER Palette which evidences the characters of the warrior god-king. Victorious over Delta peoles he wears the Red Crown of Lower Egypt; many discussions have been made about two main arguments concerning Narmer Palette's actual meaning: a sort of chronicle of Egypt Unification, or of a mere retaliation and rebels punishment; the symbolic representation of the king power; the origin of the defeated enemies: Libyans, western Delta inhabitants, eastern Delta rebels, Sinai bedawins, Asiatics.
Narmer macehead seems to depict a post bellic event; no traces of battle in course but the prisoners and the booty of war are shown (cattle in an enclosure) and enumerated.
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
We always told that people at the Delta are most mixed. lol
quote:
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos,"
By contrast an excavated set of around 300 burials from Tell el-Dab'a in the northeast delta belonging to a group considered to be Palestinian immigrants living in the late Middle Kingdom/Second Intermediate Period (1750 BC-1550 BC) have physical characteristics which group them more closely with ancient populations from the Near East and at a greater distance from those from Elephantine...
Barry J. Kemp.
Bye bye...
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand...
The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face....
Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet....
Notice how none of this is put into the context of a civil war
lioness please explain thanks
the remark is for people that think that everybody on the palette is an Egyptian in a civil war leading to national unity of upper and Lower Egypt.
If you read the descriptions in books they all seem to refer to "enemies" and you would think that if it was Egyptians against Egyptians they would make that clear. If the end result was unification and if the person being grabbed by Narmer is another Egyptian than he is not representing a permanent "enemy". You wouldn't promote unification by humilating the other side by showing them decapitated and about to be hit on the head. I believe the person on the palette was an ongoing enemy.
Possibly a Syrian or Libyan. Libyans however, typically have a side lock of hair that hangs down. If the person being grabbed is Libyan maybe it was at a time before this side lock was worn as a hair style. Based on looks it looks like a Syrian to me or Syrian Hittite. Who they are will probably be forever uncertain.
It seems like one can keep their afrocentrisity in tact be they Egyptians or Foreigners. I'm not sure what the bunched up panties are all about
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear : Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event."
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
It is not clear who the enemies are on the palette and if the person being grabbed by Narmer is an Egyptian or foreigner.
What you have above is a professor's essay for a course at the University of Quebec.
I recommend you go to the major Egyptology books for sources on the Narmer palette. Don't let me warn you again
Looks like someone really knew how to braid hair back then.lol!
In fact they still do.
Hmmm, do I see a club there in the sand?
LOL I think this belongs in the DNATribes thread showing more connections to peoples around the Great Lakes.
quote:
Modern Egyptian girl.
Wow. Didn't know modern Egyptians were that in tune with their ancient [African] heritage outside of the rural villages. No doubt this would piss off the Arab Muktabas.
Be my guest. Go ahead.
They do,
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^^^Troll Patty, your're getting real emotional know with the random kiddie pictures.
Djehootie on my team now. He says the were Libyans. But it's o.k. he says the real Libyans were pitch black and listened to Jay-Z so it's o.k.. You don't have to have a tantrum
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^Troll Patty, your're getting real emotional know with the random kiddie pictures.
Djehootie on my team now. He says the were Libyans. But it's o.k. he says the real Libyans were pitch black and listened to Jay-Z so it's o.k.. You don't have to have a tantrum
This British piece of racist sh*t above, is jealous of children who descent from ancient Egyptians and go visit sitescenes to learn about their history and original culture. Your frustration has taken new hights, Brith.
Ps. This is what Egyptian children in general look like, which you obviously hate for a reason. Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Troll Patty why are you upset? All I'm saying is that the Narmer palette is showing victory over enemies. In this thread we are talking about who the eniemies were not who the Egyptians were So why are you crying?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Troll Patty why are you upset? All I'm saying is that the Narmer palette is showing victory over enemies. In this thread we are talking about who the eniemies were not who the Egyptians were So why are you crying?
AT THIS PIECE OF RACIST BRITISH SH*T ABOVE.
YOU HAVE NO MORE EXCUSES, SO YOU WENT ON HATING EGYPTIAN CHILDREN THE DESCENDANTS OF ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WHO ARE VISITING THE SITE-SCENES AND LEARNING ABOUT THEIR HISTORY!!!
IT'S A CRYING SHAME!
IT'S NOT ME WHO HAS THE PROBLEM, IT'S YOU. DON'T YOU GET IT? LOL
quote:Originally posted by the Get sh*tty:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
"The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear : Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event."
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
It is not clear who the enemies are on the palette and if the person being grabbed by Narmer is an Egyptian or foreigner.
What you have above is a professor's essay for a course at the University of Quebec.
I recommend you go to the major Egyptology books for sources on the Narmer palette. Don't let me warn you again
thank you,
lyin' ass
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. On a wall of a temple to Amun at Medinet Habu, in Thebes, Pharaoh Ramesses III (1184–1153 B.C.) pummels an enemy.
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. The center of a seventh-century B.C., 8-inch-wide silver bowl from Idalion, on Cyprus, also shows a king about to strike an enemy with a mace.
Description
Plaster cast of the 'Narmer Palette' (Cairo, Egypt). The original executed in greywacke or schist was discovered by Quibell in 1894 in Kom el-Ahmar (Hierakonpolis). The decoration commemorates the victories of Narmer. Each side is surmounted by Hathor-heads flanking a serekh containing the royal name. Reverse: Narmer, wearing the white-crown, followed by a sandal-bearer, brandishes a mace and prepares to strike a captive, before - a Horus-falcon surmounts a cluster of Delta-vegetation and holds a prisoner, below - two slain enemies are represented. Obverse - Narmer, wearing the red-crown, followed by sandal-bearer and officials and standard-bearers, proceeds to the Temple of Horus and inspects two rows of bound and decapitated enemies, the circular grinding area is enclosed by the serpentine necks of two mythological quadruped beasts, tethered and held by attendants, below - the king is portrayed as a bull trampling on an enemy and destroying a fort.
quote:Originally posted by Ethiop: Thanks Djehuti for your informative post wish I was here to carry on this conversation. Most of the time I am unable to visit this site because of my wife and kids however when time permits I will be here. My curiosity is genuine and appreciate any info on this Narmar palette...
No problem. I myself can't spend as much time on this forum as I want due to work and/or social life, but I will continue to post in this thread as long as the discussion remains. Though if you want to discuss this without further interference from psycho trolls with an agenda. You can private message me.
quote:..My understanding is that you believe the decapitated head represents a God not and individual and the smiten foes have libyan origins from the west. Interesting...
It's not a decapitated head but rather a head attached to the ground of papyrus reeds. The ground of papyrus represents marshlands or the Delta. That there is a head attached means the delta is personified as the god of the region. The smitten foes are obviously native Delta people. The problem is that for so long people have speculated them to be Asiatic or of Asiatic origin when there is much more evidence showing that Delta inhabitants are of Libyan or rather western origins instead.
quote:..Question what tribe are these Libyan people from and could they be of mixed ancestry or not. Next were do the Anu people fit into this event. I was thinking about them today but it seems like this palette occur after them am I right. Just a thought. Thanks again
There is no way of knowing what tribe these people are though some scholars suggest the glyphs of the guy being sacrificed might represent the name of his particular tribe or community. As for mixed ancestry, mixed with who? Again what evidence is there to suggest they were mixed? The so-called Anu people are farther south and these were the ancestors of Upper Egyptians.
quote: Djehuti please post it here or give me the site of the Takruri's thread. Thanks
I will post the info in Takruri's thread as soon as I get the time and will give the link in this thread when I do.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: He stands barefoot to make the mark the ground sacred as he prepares to make a sacrifice to the gods holding his sacrificial weapon the mace raised in his right hand while he holds the hair of his enemy groveling on the ground with his left hand...
The bottom register: There are two fallen naked enemies each with a glyph in front his face....
Then there are ten decapitated enemies in two rows of five, each body having his head placed between his feet....
Notice how none of this is put into the context of a civil war
B|tch how stupid are you??!! AGAIN, I will repeat... How the f*ck can this be a "civil war" when Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt were 2 SEPARATE COUNTRIES in the first place?!! This was a war of conquest and unification! Even the most elementary school book texts say Egypt was the result of union between 2 lands-- Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt! Even throughout the rest of dynastic times, Kmt (Egypt) was referred to as the 2 lands!
Now if you can't understand this simple concept, then I can't help you.
quote: Djehooti agrees with me that they are not Egyptians.
Swenet is in the other camp
lyinass prodcuctions
Stop putting words in other peoples' posts, worm! When have I ever agreed with your lyingass!
The defeated peoples WERE Egyptians in that they were Lower Egyptians! Just as the conquering Narmer were Upper Egyptians. Your dumb ass just can't understand that these were two different countries that were united to form what many know as dynastic Egypt, you dumb twit!
quote: the remark is for people that think that everybody on the palette is an Egyptian in a civil war leading to national unity of upper and Lower Egypt.
Again read my above posts. You seem to be missing the very definition of civil war! Lower Egypt and Upper Egypt were two entirely different countries, two entirely different cultures, etc. Even in the 'Tale of Sinuhe' which takes place in the 12th dynasty, Sinuhe an Egyptian officer from the Delta upon visiting Upper Egypt says he could barely understand the language of the people there, and remarks about how different the appearance and customs are as if he is visiting another country!!
quote:If you read the descriptions in books they all seem to refer to "enemies" and you would think that if it was Egyptians against Egyptians they would make that clear. If the end result was unification and if the person being grabbed by Narmer is another Egyptian than he is not representing a permanent "enemy". You wouldn't promote unification by humiliating the other side by showing them decapitated and about to be hit on the head. I believe the person on the palette was an ongoing enemy.
LMAO Clearly you know little of history for there are many occasions where rulers would kill and humiliate people of their own country to establish authority let alone another country which was the case precisely! Also you seem to be stuck in this retarded mindset that enemies can only be foreign as we debunked your nonsense on the first page of this thread already!!
quote:Possibly a Syrian or Libyan. Libyans however, typically have a side lock of hair that hangs down. If the person being grabbed is Libyan maybe it was at a time before this side lock was worn as a hair style. Based on looks it looks like a Syrian to me or Syrian Hittite. Who they are will probably be forever uncertain.
The Tjemehu Libyans who wore side locks first appeared during the New Kingdom. The only Libyan group known during the time of Narmer are the Tjehenu. The people conquered by Narmer are NEITHER but natives of the Delta! My original point is that Delta natives are descendants of Libyans from farther west not that they are Libyans exactly. And there is actual evidence to support my claim than those of yours that they are of Asian descent! Your opinions on them looking Syrian are just that and nothing more. It is not based on evidence but rather idiocy!
quote:It seems like one can keep their afrocentrisity in tact be they Egyptians or Foreigners. I'm not sure what the bunched up panties are all about
LOL It seems no one's panties are bunched up but YOURS, you lying worm!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: The circumstances from which the final unification arose can't be known: they might have been ferocious warfares or pacific relations cemented by marriages; but the relevant fact is that several years after these events had happened,the early kings of Egypt still held memory of the ancestral importance of centers as Nwbt (Naqada) and Nekhen (Hierakonpolis) so that they made the temples built therein object of worship and commemoration.
Furthermore, although it appears very likely that the 'conquest' of the Delta by the Upper Egypt chiefs had begun generations before Narmer, no evident sign of war-like activities can be inferred by the attestation of Ka and Scorpion in Lower Egypt.
The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear : Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event.
The above info cited by the lyinass is correct, and DEBUNKS her dumb ass that it was a civil war because these were two different countries! The point is that there is no way of knowing whether the palette depicts an actual event OR was merely symbolic of the king's power of the people of the area. The point is the Palette DOES depict people of the Delta!
quote:The most famous artifact of the Unification period is NARMER Palette which evidences the characters of the warrior god-king. Victorious over Delta peoples he wears the Red Crown of Lower Egypt; many discussions have been made about two main arguments concerning Narmer Palette's actual meaning: a sort of chronicle of Egypt Unification, or of a mere retaliation and rebels punishment; the symbolic representation of the king power; the origin of the defeated enemies: Libyans, western Delta inhabitants, eastern Delta rebels, Sinai bedawins, Asiatics.
Narmer macehead seems to depict a post bellic event; no traces of battle in course but the prisoners and the booty of war are shown (cattle in an enclosure) and enumerated.
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
The only thing the Narmer Palette says about the defeated people is that they live in the Delta. There is no ethnic connotation or reference at all, and you are correct that the Narmer macehead is similar in showing defeated enemies.
quote:
We always told that people at the Delta are most mixed. lol
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline of variation along the Nile Valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into Palestine."
By contrast an excavated set of around 300 burials from Tell el-Dab'a in the northeast delta belonging to a group considered to be Palestinian immigrants living in the late Middle Kingdom/Second Intermediate Period (1750 BC-1550 BC) have physical characteristics which group them more closely with ancient populations from the Near East and at a greater distance from those from Elephantine...
Barry J. Kemp.
Yes, and such info was presented countless times in this forum but apparently it flies over Simpleton minds and lyinass brains. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Ethiop: Thanks Djehuti for your informative post wish I was here to carry on this conversation. Most of the time I am unable to visit this site because of my wife and kids however when time permits I will be here. My curiosity is genuine and appreciate any info on this Narmar palette...
No problem. I myself can't spend as much time on this forum as I want due to work and/or social life, but I will continue to post in this thread as long as the discussion remains. Though if you want to discuss this without further interference from psycho trolls with an agenda. You can private message me.
quote:..My understanding is that you believe the decapitated head represents a God not and individual and the smiten foes have libyan origins from the west. Interesting...
It's not a decapitated head but rather a head attached to the ground of papyrus reeds. The ground of papyrus represents marshlands or the Delta. That there is a head attached means the delta is personified as the god of the region. The smitten foes are obviously native Delta people. The problem is that for so long people have speculated them to be Asiatic or of Asiatic origin when there is much more evidence showing that Delta inhabitants are of Libyan or rather western origins instead.
quote:..Question what tribe are these Libyan people from and could they be of mixed ancestry or not. Next were do the Anu people fit into this event. I was thinking about them today but it seems like this palette occur after them am I right. Just a thought. Thanks again
There is no way of knowing what tribe these people are though some scholars suggest the glyphs of the guy being sacrificed might represent the name of his particular tribe or community. As for mixed ancestry, mixed with who? Again what evidence is there to suggest they were mixed? The so-called Anu people are farther south and these were the ancestors of Upper Egyptians.
quote: Djehuti please post it here or give me the site of the Takruri's thread. Thanks
I will post the info in Takruri's thread as soon as I get the time and will give the link in this thread when I do.
Well thanks I think I have alittle bit better understanding about the Narmar paltte. Your Interpretation of the palette was useful and maybe you are right in what you are saying, it does make sense. Yes I think I will email you. You seem like a very knowledgable individuals and I am sure there are more here like you here. These are the kind of people which I like to have a dialogue with. Especailly when you have an enviroment in which none of your friends know absolutly nothing about what is being discussed on the board. So yes I am a loner in that sense.
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. The center of a seventh-century B.C., 8-inch-wide silver bowl from Idalion, on Cyprus, also shows a king about to strike an enemy with a mace.
Nice picture, never seen this image before. Its a keeper!!!!!!!!
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. On a wall of a temple to Amun at Medinet Habu, in Thebes, Pharaoh Ramesses III (1184–1153 B.C.) pummels an enemy.
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. The center of a seventh-century B.C., 8-inch-wide silver bowl from Idalion, on Cyprus, also shows a king about to strike an enemy with a mace.
Description
Plaster cast of the 'Narmer Palette' (Cairo, Egypt). The original executed in greywacke or schist was discovered by Quibell in 1894 in Kom el-Ahmar (Hierakonpolis). The decoration commemorates the victories of Narmer. Each side is surmounted by Hathor-heads flanking a serekh containing the royal name. Reverse: Narmer, wearing the white-crown, followed by a sandal-bearer, brandishes a mace and prepares to strike a captive, before - a Horus-falcon surmounts a cluster of Delta-vegetation and holds a prisoner, below - two slain enemies are represented. Obverse - Narmer, wearing the red-crown, followed by sandal-bearer and officials and standard-bearers, proceeds to the Temple of Horus and inspects two rows of bound and decapitated enemies, the circular grinding area is enclosed by the serpentine necks of two mythological quadruped beasts, tethered and held by attendants, below - the king is portrayed as a bull trampling on an enemy and destroying a fort.
Troll Patty you are so caught up in emotion you are not making sense. Above you show Egyptian kings striking their enemies. How does this in any form or fashion contradict what I've been saying? In fact it supports what I've been saying, that Narmer is shown striking his enemies (but that is not even the main point) You seem unable to comprehend the topic of conversation. Everybody agrees that in all this pieces an Egyptian king is smiting his enemies, the topic is not that it's who are the enemies ? and your above post does not address who they were. Try to focus, perhaps puff on a blunt to calm down.
____________________________________________
Don't take my word for it. Take the word of lioness team member Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
Delta natives are descendants of Libyans from farther west
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. On a wall of a temple to Amun at Medinet Habu, in Thebes, Pharaoh Ramesses III (1184–1153 B.C.) pummels an enemy.
The Narmer Palette boasts one of the earliest depictions of a king smiting his enemies. In the second and first millennia B.C., this image symbolized royal power throughout the eastern Mediterranean. The center of a seventh-century B.C., 8-inch-wide silver bowl from Idalion, on Cyprus, also shows a king about to strike an enemy with a mace.
Description
Plaster cast of the 'Narmer Palette' (Cairo, Egypt). The original executed in greywacke or schist was discovered by Quibell in 1894 in Kom el-Ahmar (Hierakonpolis). The decoration commemorates the victories of Narmer. Each side is surmounted by Hathor-heads flanking a serekh containing the royal name. Reverse: Narmer, wearing the white-crown, followed by a sandal-bearer, brandishes a mace and prepares to strike a captive, before - a Horus-falcon surmounts a cluster of Delta-vegetation and holds a prisoner, below - two slain enemies are represented. Obverse - Narmer, wearing the red-crown, followed by sandal-bearer and officials and standard-bearers, proceeds to the Temple of Horus and inspects two rows of bound and decapitated enemies, the circular grinding area is enclosed by the serpentine necks of two mythological quadruped beasts, tethered and held by attendants, below - the king is portrayed as a bull trampling on an enemy and destroying a fort.
Troll Patty you are so caught up in emotion you are not making sense. Above you show Egyptian kings striking their enemies. How does this in any form or fashion contradict what I've been saying? In fact it supports what I've been saying, that Narmer is shown striking his enemies (but that is not even the main point) You seem unable to comprehend the topic of conversation. Everybody agrees that in all this pieces an Egyptian king is smiting his enemies, the topic is not that it's who are the enemies ? and your above post does not address who they were. Try to focus, perhaps puff on a blunt to calm down.
It appears you have the problem!!!!!
quote:
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos,"
By contrast an excavated set of around 300 burials from Tell el-Dab'a in the northeast delta belonging to a group considered to be Palestinian immigrants living in the late Middle Kingdom/Second Intermediate Period (1750 BC-1550 BC) have physical characteristics which group them more closely with ancient populations from the Near East and at a greater distance from those from Elephantine...
Barry J. Kemp.
quote:
The circumstances from which the final unification arose can't be known: they might have been ferocious warfares or pacific relations cemented by marriages; but the relevant fact is that several years after these events had happened,the early kings of Egypt still held memory of the ancestral importance of centers as Nwbt (Naqada) and Nekhen (Hierakonpolis) so that they made the temples built therein object of worship and commemoration.
Furthermore, although it appears very likely that the 'conquest' of the Delta by the Upper Egypt chiefs had begun generations before Narmer, no evident sign of war-like activities can be inferred by the attestation of Ka and Scorpion in Lower Egypt.
The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear : Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event.
The most famous artifact of the Unification period is NARMER Palette which evidences the characters of the warrior god-king. Victorious over Delta peoles he wears the Red Crown of Lower Egypt; many discussions have been made about two main arguments concerning Narmer Palette's actual meaning: a sort of chronicle of Egypt Unification, or of a mere retaliation and rebels punishment; the symbolic representation of the king power; the origin of the defeated enemies: Libyans, western Delta inhabitants, eastern Delta rebels, Sinai bedawins, Asiatics.
Narmer macehead seems to depict a post bellic event; no traces of battle in course but the prisoners and the booty of war are shown (cattle in an enclosure) and enumerated.
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
Delta natives are descendants of Libyans from farther west
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
"The interpretation of the Narmer Palette seems clear: Narmer is represented wearing both Egyptian crowns; he conquers lands and overthrows the enemy. He is inspecting the victims of his war. The Narmer Palette deals with a war, but also dramatically indicates one of the most important events in the history of Ancient Egypt : the unification of the two lands, the first attestation of this event."
REFERENCES
Midant-Reynes, Béatrix, 1992. Préhistoire de l’Égypte. Des premiers hommes aux premiers pharaons, Paris : Armand Colin Éditeur.
It is not clear who the enemies are on the palette and if the person being grabbed by Narmer is an Egyptian or foreigner.
l'ass
REpost!lol
Furthermore,
An alternative interpretation for this symbol that has sometimes been forwarded, would be that each papyrus plant represents the number 1000 and that the falcon-king subdued 6000 enemies.
The papyrus plant was indeed used in later hieroglyphic writing to write the number 1000, but it was drawn in a somewhat different manner than the papyrus plants on the palette. Furthermore, it is not so certain that the signs used at the very beginning of hieroglyphic writing, have the same phonetic or even ideographic meaning. The alternative interpretation seems a bit too far-fetched.
Narmer strikes down a foe. Many Egyptologists have been tempted to interpret this scene as the conquest of Lower Egypt by Narmer.
Two dead enemies, symbolising conquered towns, are represented underneath Narmer's feet.
Narmer inspects a heap of beheaded corpses, likely to represent slain enemies after the battle.
The taming of wild animals has often been viewed as a metaphor for the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Topic Closed
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
AT THIS PIECE OF RACIST BRITISH SH*T ABOVE. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
B|tch how stupid are you??!! AGAIN, I will repeat... How the f*ck can this be a "civil war" when Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt were 2 SEPARATE COUNTRIES in the first place?!! This was a war of conquest and unification! Even the most elementary school book texts say Egypt was the result of union between 2 lands-- Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt! Even throughout the rest of dynastic times, Kmt (Egypt) was referred to as the 2 lands!
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