yes, it was a term applied loosely and not by the people themselves
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: ]Dje, Doug, Jari, Dana et al can one of you recap the African presence among the Moorish armies, or provide a link to such?
yes, there was an African precence as shown here:
Moorish Army Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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yes, it was a term applied loosely and not by the people themselves
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: ]Dje, Doug, Jari, Dana et al can one of you recap the African presence among the Moorish armies, or provide a link to such?
yes, there was an African precence as shown here:
Moorish Army
Mathilda,
Now, even your companion Peter Frost wrote. In the following ranking about the image above (While he at times is prejudice.)
Descriptions of human complexion as 1 "white," 2 "brown" or 3 "black" would correspond in modern usage to 1 "fair," 2 "tan" or 3 "swarthy."
Medieval Europeans had no awareness of belonging to a "white" race, if only for want of contact with other races.
Now, there are many paintings on the St James and the "moorish slaying" event. Here is another one. And there are even more. All showing different form each other. How is that possible? lol
Let us study the location and event little closer, where did it take place, and who lived there. To really understand the proposition.
So who were the Numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum and why are they so important to the Black British community? Our key evidence for this unit is a 4th century inscription, found in 1934 at the village of Beaumont two miles east of Burgh-by-Sands on the banks of the River Eden, and known as the Beaumont inscription. Translated from the Latin it reads:
To Jupiter Best and Greatest and the Majesty of our two Emperors, to the Genius [guardian spirit] of the numerus of Aurelian Moors, Valerianus’ and Gallienus’ own, Caelius Vibianus, cohort-tribune in charge of the above-mentioned numerus, [set up this altar] through the agency of Julius Rufinus, senior centurion.
^later in history the term became associated with Islam. This is why you will find derivatives associating with Islam.
Real Duth History, owner: The Royal Library at The Hague.
Early 13th century.
Made between 1296 and 1578
Abu'l-Walid Ibn Rushd, also known as Averroes (1126-1198)
An elegiac passage from the thirteenth century Primera cronica general (Chapter 559 General Chronicle of Spain) recounts the events of 711 for what is construed as the (temporary) downfall of “Spain” in that year. The text testifies that semantic transformation of “Moor” was not nearly as benign as some readers have assumed: their faces were black as pitch, the handsomest among them was black as a cooking pot, and their eyes blazed like fire; their horses swift as leopards, their horsemen more cruel and hurtful than the wolf that comes at night to the flock of sheep. The vile African people… (Smith 1988:19)
Here the historiography sponsored by Alphonso X of Castile shares a vocabulary developed across the Pyrenees in the early twelfth-century Chanson de Roland, wherein the Saracen Abisme is stigmatized as brutish on account of his race (“In all that host was none more vile than he, With evil vice and crimes he’s dyed full deep...And black is he as melted pitch to see. Better he loves murder and treachery Than all the gold that is in Galicie...” (emphasis mine) [Song of Roland, 113; Sayers 1975: 108].
These are dipictions of Ottoman Turks and Persians the way they displayed themselves. May I remind you Turks knew about Moors.
I also explained to you longtime ago, it's not about the color complexrion to me. But it becomes a problem when white folks such as yourself are ignoring the fact of dark skinned African presence. And the historical metaphor and etymology.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty: So who were the Numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum and why are they so important to the Black British community? Our key evidence for this unit is a 4th century inscription, found in 1934 at the village of Beaumont two miles east of Burgh-by-Sands on the banks of the River Eden, and known as the Beaumont inscription. Translated from the Latin it reads:
the Moorish cavalry employed by the Romans is important to the Black British community?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty: Real Duth History, owner: The Royal Library at The Hague.
Early 13th century.
what are you trying to show here? Charlemagne in battle with Muslims. Each side faces each other and clashes in the middle. If you look at the faces on the far left and far right you see the differnt sides. For example the second figure from the right holds a curved Muslim sword
posted
The painting below was mere an example on how there are many expression on the same event. I said there there plenty more, besides this one and the two by you.lol
It's purely metaphorical.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty:
Troll Patty this is by Jose Casado, 19th century
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty: So who were the Numerus Maurorum Aurelianorum and why are they so important to the Black British community? Our key evidence for this unit is a 4th century inscription, found in 1934 at the village of Beaumont two miles east of Burgh-by-Sands on the banks of the River Eden, and known as the Beaumont inscription. Translated from the Latin it reads:
the Moorish cavalry employed by the Romans is important to the Black British community?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patty: Real Duth History, owner: The Royal Library at The Hague.
Early 13th century.
what are you trying to show here? Charlemagne in battle with Muslims. Each side faces each other and clashes in the middle. If you look at the faces on the far left and far right you see the differnt sides. For example the second figure from the right holds a curved Muslim sword
Now here is a Arabic painting from Iraq. On how they portayed themselves. This is obviously not black. Unless you've got your panties in a bunch again.
Early Persian painting by Persians themselves, around the same period as the late Moorish conquest.lol
You folks love to denial blacks in history. You will even go as far as creating a false identity on the internet. Calling yourself a black woman (man). I have encountered into this quite often.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:what are you trying to show here? Charlemagne in battle with Muslims. Each side faces each other and clashes in the middle. If you look at the faces on the far left and far right you see the differnt sides. For example the second figure from the right holds a curved Muslim sword
lol at this pseudo babble.
It's the portrait of a battle, you except each one the stand in a line? lol
Idiot, it is a early 13th century portrayal own by the Royal Dutch Library. And it clearly states the fight between Moorish prince and Karel De Grote.
An elegiac passage from the thirteenth century Primera cronica general (Chapter 559 General Chronicle of Spain) recounts the events of 711 for what is construed as the (temporary) downfall of “Spain” in that year. The text testifies that semantic transformation of “Moor” was not nearly as benign as some readers have assumed: their faces were black as pitch, the handsomest among them was black as a cooking pot, and their eyes blazed like fire; their horses swift as leopards, their horsemen more cruel and hurtful than the wolf that comes at night to the flock of sheep. The vile African people… (Smith 1988:19)
Here the historiography sponsored by Alphonso X of Castile shares a vocabulary developed across the Pyrenees in the early twelfth-century Chanson de Roland, wherein the Saracen Abisme is stigmatized as brutish on account of his race (“In all that host was none more vile than he, With evil vice and crimes he’s dyed full deep...And black is he as melted pitch to see. Better he loves murder and treachery Than all the gold that is in Galicie...” (emphasis mine) [Song of Roland, 113; Sayers 1975: 108].
As seen above, the word Moor obviously became associated with Islam and Muslims. When early in history it was not. Why would a people with the same color complexion name other Moros? Unless the became islamized and converted to Islam!
Gees....lol at this imposter black woman.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:what are you trying to show here? Charlemagne in battle with Muslims. Each side faces each other and clashes in the middle. If you look at the faces on the far left and far right you see the differnt sides. For example the second figure from the right holds a curved Muslim sword
lol at this pseudo babble.
It's the portrait of a battle, you except each one the stand in a line? lol Idiot, it is a early 13th century portrayal own by the Royal Dutch Library. And it clearly states the fight between Moorish prince and Karel De Grote.
jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple etnicities involved.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
As seen above, the word Moor obviously became associated with Islam and Muslims. When early in history it was not. Why would a people with the same color complexion name other Moros? Unless the became islamized and converted to Islam!
Yes we are in agreement. The term was used loosely to mean brown and dark skinned Muslims.
But later "Moors" were stereotyped as being pitched black Africans often Ethiopians who were not even part of the Moorish culture at all. They were merely dark skinned Africans This is what you see in the heraldry and they also cut them off from being associated directly with Islam, for example showng a pitch black person's head with a Western crown on it. This type of thing has nothing to do with Moors who conquered Iberia it has to do with Christianizing Africans not even from the North
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Most modern peoples of northern Egypt and most northern maghrebis are descendants from the Levant, Slavs and Turks. They have resorted to skin whitening creams like their Turkish, Syrian and Iranian related kinsmen in Arabia. lol! See video.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
quote:Yes we are in agreement. The term was used loosely to mean brown and dark skinned Muslims.
But later "Moors" were stereotyped as being pitched black Africans often Ethiopians who were not even part of the Moorish culture at all. They were merely dark skinned Africans This is what you see in the heraldry and they also cut them off from being associated directly with Islam, for example showng a pitch black person's head with a Western crown on it. This type of thing has nothing to do with Moors who conquered Iberia it has to do with Christianizing Africans not even from the North
It's the REVERSE lying dummy! Moor as derived from the Greek word Maure meant BLACK but over time eventually changed to mean darker skinned Muslims and then Muslims of all shades. Go back and do research dumb worm!
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: [qb] jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
yes, what the Europeans called "Moor" at the time of the Crusades included a variety of ethnicities, various shades of brown skinned people living in NA.
Because you can cpaitalize the word BLACK does not mean older conceptions of what it means are the same as 19th century "negro" racial conceptions of the term.
Hence in older versions of what black meant compared to Europeans the following people could all be considered "blacks". Even in Holland today schools with a lot of brown skinned Turks and a much lesser amount of "black North Africans" get called "black schools" This also shows that the concept of what "black" means in some Euroepan countries, even today, differs from the American concept.
we also have this term "blackamoor". When "black" is used in this form it means a pitched black stereotype, not of people from North Africa at all but stereoype characters representing "exotic Africans" such as:
of this anonymous generic "Moor" who has been de-Islamified with a European crown:
^^^this type of thing comes later, the former enemy now trasformed into a cute mascot of black Africans in general, not even people from the North
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: [qb] jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
yes, what the Europeans called "Moor" at the time of the Crusades included a variety of ethnicities, various shades of brown skinned people living in NA.
Because you can cpaitalize the word BLACK does not mean older conceptions of what it means are the same as 19th century "negro" racial conceptions of the term.
Hence in older versions of what black meant compared to Europeans the following people could all be considered "blacks". Even in Holland today schools with a lot of brown skinned Turks and a much lesser amount of "black North Africans" get called "black schools" This also shows that the concept of what "black" means in some Euroepan countries, even today, differs from the American concept.
]
The term black is not being used to refer to Turks as black. When black is being used the mean people of African descent. As always was.
The term in schools is no more then a political climate, because they high percentage of foreigners in these school, labeling them as negative. Not because of the ethnic background. You dimwit.
You act as you are an expert on Dutch politics and history.lol
The term Moor became an association with Islam. When it was used earlier in history as an ethnographic definition for the African.
The Netherlands has been known for centuries as a tolerant country and a safe haven for refugees. At the same time there are still plenty of images in Dutch culture that preserve racist stereotypes of Black people. Zwarte Piet (one of Saint Nicholas’s attendants) and the negerzoen (a chocolate mallow whose name in Dutch means literally: Negro kiss – a name that was officially discarded last year) are examples of this type of surreptitious stereotyping. In his book entitled Blacks in the Dutch World, the American historian Allison Blakely investigates how this representation evolved over the centuries. He is currently working on a book on the Afro-Arabic diaspora in Europe. On Monday 26 November he will visit the University of Groningen where he will give an English-language lecture with the title ‘Afro-Europe: Rhetoric or Reality?’ (4.30-6 p.m.).
The representation of the zwarten (Blacks), negers (Negroes) or moren (Moors) in the Netherlands is multi-faceted, ambiguous, and occasionally even paradoxical. For centuries, this kind of image fired people’s imagination at a time when there was almost no Black population in the Netherlands. We still encounter this image of the zwarte or moor in folklore, the visual arts, literature and religious traditions. It varies from slave, uncivilized savage, devil, bogeyman or clown to the dignified Black king in the Christmas story. Many images are united in the figure of Zwarte Piet, who arose from Christian and heathen traditions but is also a moor who symbolizes, in conjunction with Saint Nicholas, the meeting of East and West. The same applies to the image of the Gaper (the Moor’s head on the sign outside a chemist’s shop), the Smoking Moor in the tobacco advert, or the Black bogeyman in many children’s songs.
These have little to do with realistic images based on experiences with Black fellow citizens, but are rather expressions illustrating how the general public and artists regarded these Black ‘savages’. It was only with the advent of large groups of people from the Netherlands Antilles and Surinam, and against a backdrop of the economic crisis in the 1970s, that racial discrimination began to become a problem in the Netherlands.
In his rich book Blacks in the Dutch World: the Evolution of Racial Imagery in a Modern Society (1994), Allison Blakely analyses the origins of racial stereotypes against the background of the industrial, scientific and agrarian revolutions in the Western World. Racial ideology in the Netherlands is closely linked to its colonial past and prominent role in the slave trade. Blakely argues that humanism and liberalism are no guarantee against the development of racial bias. To obtain a better understanding of the origins of racial prejudice in the Netherlands and Europe, it is essential to make a historical analysis of the representation of this group in society.
His study is still extremely topical. The spring of 2008 will witness the publication of a Dutch translation of his book, entitled Negers in Nederland. Hoe de zwarten in Nederland worden afgeschilderd, published by Uitgeverij Synthese.
Allison Blakely (1940) is a professor of African and American Studies and European and Comparative History at Boston University. In 1988 he won the American Book Award for his book Russia and the Negro. He is currently in Europe to perform a new study on the history of the Black population in Europe: ‘The Emergence of Afro-Europe’.
quote:what are you trying to show here? Charlemagne in battle with Muslims. Each side faces each other and clashes in the middle. If you look at the faces on the far left and far right you see the differnt sides. For example the second figure from the right holds a curved Muslim sword
lol at this pseudo babble.
It's the portrait of a battle, you except each one the stand in a line? lol Idiot, it is a early 13th century portrayal own by the Royal Dutch Library. And it clearly states the fight between Moorish prince and Karel De Grote.
jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple etnicities involved.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
As seen above, the word Moor obviously became associated with Islam and Muslims. When early in history it was not. Why would a people with the same color complexion name other Moros? Unless the became islamized and converted to Islam!
Yes we are in agreement. The term was used loosely to mean brown and dark skinned Muslims.
But later "Moors" were stereotyped as being pitched black Africans often Ethiopians who were not even part of the Moorish culture at all. They were merely dark skinned Africans This is what you see in the heraldry and they also cut them off from being associated directly with Islam, for example showng a pitch black person's head with a Western crown on it. This type of thing has nothing to do with Moors who conquered Iberia it has to do with Christianizing Africans not even from the North
Stop the lies....and excuses.
An elegiac passage from the thirteenth century Primera cronica general (Chapter 559 General Chronicle of Spain) recounts the events of 711 for what is construed as the (temporary) downfall of “Spain” in that year. The text testifies that semantic transformation of “Moor” was not nearly as benign as some readers have assumed: their faces were black as pitch, the handsomest among them was black as a cooking pot, and their eyes blazed like fire; their horses swift as leopards, their horsemen more cruel and hurtful than the wolf that comes at night to the flock of sheep. The vile African people… (Smith 1988:19)
Here the historiography sponsored by Alphonso X of Castile shares a vocabulary developed across the Pyrenees in the early twelfth-century Chanson de Roland, wherein the Saracen Abisme is stigmatized as brutish on account of his race (“In all that host was none more vile than he, With evil vice and crimes he’s dyed full deep...And black is he as melted pitch to see. Better he loves murder and treachery Than all the gold that is in Galicie...” (emphasis mine) [Song of Roland, 113; Sayers 1975: 108].
posted
I swear y'all, this lyinass worm's feign of stupidity at times seems too all authentic.
The dummy does not understand that the word Moor was originally applied to BLACKS only because the very word Moor meant black NOT "brown" or "tan" or "tawny"!! The etymology of the word moor and its Greek ancestor maure were told to the lyinass b|tch too many times. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I swear y'all, this lyinass worm's feign of stupidity at times seems too all authentic.
The dummy does not understand that the word Moor was originally applied to BLACKS only because the very word Moor meant black NOT "brown" or "tan" or "tawny"!! The etymology of the word moor and its Greek ancestor maure were told to the lyinass b|tch too many times.
other jackass, Maure is Roman, Maurisi is Greek.
The name Moor derives from the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BCE in what is now northern central and western part of Algeria and a part of northern Morocco.The Maure (Moors) were trading partners of Carthage, founded by Phoenicians. During the second Punic war between Carthage and Rome, two Moorish Numidian kings took different sides, Syphax with Carthage, Masinissa with the Romans.
posted
The citation above we see all over the Internet. And according to Wikipedia pseudo scholars, appears to come from the book: Michael Brett and Elizabeth Fentress, The Berbers at 25 & 77; Gabriel Camps, Les Berbères (Edisud 1996) at 20–21, 25
Now, can anyone of you help me to find the word Maure in this book, because I couldn't find it.
However, we can only wonder why these two authors didn't subscribe to the etymology of the word Maure. As is historically recorded. What was the motif, what was the intention? Why didn't they mention any of this...(see below)
Αἰθίοψ, οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς, ίδος, ἡ (Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl. Αἰθιοπῆες Il.1.423, whence nom. Αἰθιοπεύς Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):— properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28. 2. a fish, Agatharch.109.
II. Adj., Ethiopian, Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα Hdt.3.19; γῆ A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος, α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός, ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:— Subst. Αἰθιοπία, ἡ, Hdt., etc.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: The citation above we see all over the Internet. And according to Wikipedia pseudo scholars, appears to come from the book: Michael Brett and Elizabeth Fentress, The Berbers at 25 & 77; Gabriel Camps, Les Berbères (Edisud 1996) at 20–21, 25
Now, can anyone of you help me to find the word Maure in this book, because I couldn't find it.
However, we can only wonder why these two authors didn't subscribe to the etymology of the word Maure. As is historically recorded. What was the motif, what was the intention? Why didn't they mention any of this...(see below)
Αἰθίοψ, οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς, ίδος, ἡ (Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl. Αἰθιοπῆες Il.1.423, whence nom. Αἰθιοπεύς Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):— properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28. 2. a fish, Agatharch.109.
II. Adj., Ethiopian, Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα Hdt.3.19; γῆ A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος, α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός, ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:— Subst. Αἰθιοπία, ἡ, Hdt., etc.
The word Mavri/Mauri is a derogatory word for blacks in Greek today.
The word Mauri is related to the word blackberry in latin - Morulus. "The image of the Black in western Art: From the early Christian era to the' age of discovery': From the demonic threat to the incarnation of sainthood." Harvard University Press.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I swear y'all, this lyinass worm's feign of stupidity at times seems too all authentic.
The dummy does not understand that the word Moor was originally applied to BLACKS only because the very word Moor meant black NOT "brown" or "tan" or "tawny"!! The etymology of the word moor and its Greek ancestor maure were told to the lyinass b|tch too many times.
other jackass, Maure is Roman, Maurisi is Greek.
The name Moor derives from the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BCE in what is now northern central and western part of Algeria and a part of northern Morocco.The Maure (Moors) were trading partners of Carthage, founded by Phoenicians. During the second Punic war between Carthage and Rome, two Moorish Numidian kings took different sides, Syphax with Carthage, Masinissa with the Romans.
Syphax
Masinissa
bitch
National Geographic has the top coin as a Roman general. This guy looks actually more like a Swede. Do these look like Zaghawa or Tuareg to u, Lyin_ss.
The early Moorish people according to the List of Provinces of Diocletian dated to approx. the 4th c. A.D. included the Mauri Bavares whom some scholars think were ancestral to the Bafour. See Hrbek, I. (1988). The emergence of the Fatimids. In Africa from the Seventh to the Eleventh century UNESCO General History of AFrica, (pp. p. 313).
They also included Mauri Gentiani or Quinque Gentiani of the Kabyle region who separated themselves into 5 tribes like the Tuareg and Beja or Cushites; Mauri Baqautes, whom Carcopino claimed were probably the Bargwata (a Masmuda people) undoubtedly originally related to peoples further west in Fezzan or Libya and Chad who named their towns and people Borgu and Bargawa etc. Carcopino, 1940, p. 387-388 in Le fin du Maroc Romain. Melanges d’archeologie et d’histoire. 57 pp. 349-448. 9
And Mauri Mazikes were "an Ethiopian people" of the Expositio Totius Mundi living in the desert. The Mazices are mentioned by the 4th century Roman Vegetius as a sub-clan of the “Laguatan”, who were “Mauri” in the Syrtica region of Libya (D.J. Mattingly, p. 290). The Laguatan or Leuathes Mauri are the Tuareg. of course this is before the Tuareg had slaves or mixed with Turks in Zeila and Murzuk and Syrians in Libya as mentioned in the manuscripts of Bornu. In Rome “every other slave was called Amasix, Maxyx, Maxitanus or simply Max” (Wendt, It Began in Babel, 1962, p. 66).
Lying _ss I don't know how u even have the time to go back and forth between the Eurowacky sites and this one. lol!
Did Snowden not say the word Mauri was used synonymously for Niger.
Lyin_ss u must understandthat much that has been written and studied about the Berbers has come from a period before it was known that a tremendous influx of slaves that had been brought into Morocco FROM EURASIA whom the Masmuda a black people and the Zanata a black people mixed with.
Let us not forget that even ibn Khaldun claimed most people in his day believed Berbers were descendants of the Canaanites and had received their black color from a curse. He claimed the Zanata were the largest group of Berbers in his time.
Rogers wrote that St. Jerome said the Romans knew of 3 Ethiopian peoples Nubians Moors and pygmies. Now I will have to find that in Jerome. I don't know where Jerome mentions this off hand, but it would not be much different than what other Romans said at the time.
Uh oh - a cursory glance on the internet brings us this by swarthy Silius Italicus.
"on his hot steed unused to curb or reign, a black Numidian prances o'er the plain"
quoted by from Records of Roman History by Francis Hobler Vol.1, 357 p. 1860 . Google it!
Are those the Numidians u were talking about Lying _ss?
I agree with you Numidians and Mauri two peas in a pod. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: The citation above we see all over the Internet. And according to Wikipedia pseudo scholars, appears to come from the book: Michael Brett and Elizabeth Fentress, The Berbers at 25 & 77; Gabriel Camps, Les Berbères (Edisud 1996) at 20–21, 25
Now, can anyone of you help me to find the word Maure in this book, because I couldn't find it.
However, we can only wonder why these two authors didn't subscribe to the etymology of the word Maure. As is historically recorded. What was the motif, what was the intention? Why didn't they mention any of this...(see below)
Αἰθίοψ, οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς, ίδος, ἡ (Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl. Αἰθιοπῆες Il.1.423, whence nom. Αἰθιοπεύς Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):— properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28. 2. a fish, Agatharch.109.
II. Adj., Ethiopian, Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα Hdt.3.19; γῆ A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος, α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός, ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:— Subst. Αἰθιοπία, ἡ, Hdt., etc.
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: [qb] jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
yes, what the Europeans called "Moor" at the time of the Crusades included a variety of ethnicities, various shades of brown skinned people living in NA.
Because you can cpaitalize the word BLACK does not mean older conceptions of what it means are the same as 19th century "negro" racial conceptions of the term.
Hence in older versions of what black meant compared to Europeans the following people could all be considered "blacks". Even in Holland today schools with a lot of brown skinned Turks and a much lesser amount of "black North Africans" get called "black schools" This also shows that the concept of what "black" means in some Euroepan countries, even today, differs from the American concept.
of this anonymous generic "Moor" who has been de-Islamified with a European crown:
^^^this type of thing comes later, the former enemy now trasformed into a cute mascot of black Africans in general, not even people from the North
First off during the crusades the predominant term in literature is Saracen.
They are usually represented in that period "as black or bluish- black in skin color" and of gigantic stature. See P. Brown , A Companion to Medieval English literature and culture, c.1350-c.1500 (2007) p. 260.
Oops another cursory glance and what do we have here Silius Italicus 2:439-40 speaking of "a black Moor's horrifying sister with burnt skin" African Athena: New Agendas p.242, published, 2011.
Guess the Garamantes weren't the only burnt up people in North AFrica.
Good refs and time to make copies. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: [qb] jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
yes, what the Europeans called "Moor" at the time of the Crusades included a variety of ethnicities, various shades of brown skinned people living in NA.
Because you can cpaitalize the word BLACK does not mean older conceptions of what it means are the same as 19th century "negro" racial conceptions of the term.
Hence in older versions of what black meant compared to Europeans the following people could all be considered "blacks". Even in Holland today schools with a lot of brown skinned Turks and a much lesser amount of "black North Africans" get called "black schools" This also shows that the concept of what "black" means in some Euroepan countries, even today, differs from the American concept.
of this anonymous generic "Moor" who has been de-Islamified with a European crown:
^^^this type of thing comes later, the former enemy now trasformed into a cute mascot of black Africans in general, not even people from the North
First off during the crusades the predominant term in literature is Saracen.
They are usually represented in that period "as black or bluish- black in skin color" and of gigantic stature. See P. Brown , A Companion to Medieval English literature and culture, c.1350-c.1500 (2007) p. 260.
Oops another cursory glance and what do we have here Silius Italicus 2:439-40 speaking of "a black Moor's horrifying sister with burnt skin" African Athena: New Agendas p.242, published, 2011.
Guess the Garamantes weren't the only burnt up people in North AFrica.
Good refs and time to make copies.
“Itinerarium Peregrinorum”, a primary source chronicling the English participation in the third crusade in the “Holy Land” in the years between 1189-1192. It speaks of the observed Saracens and one passage from this narrative mentions that amongst the opponents of the Europeans crusaders in “the Holy Land” were – "a fiendish race, forceful and relentless, deformed by nature and unlike other living beings, black in color, of enormous stature and inhuman savageness. Instead of helmets they wore red coverings (i.e. turbans) on their heads, brandishing in their hands clubs bristling with iron teeth, whose shattering blows neither helmets nor mailshirts could resist. As a standard they carried a carved effigy of Muhammad... "
The red turbaned black giants were undoubtedly the Azd people from the Hijaz. The same people that fought in the early Moorish battles with the French.
That is why they are called black and giants - Lyin_ss.
Umm ...and a cursory glance at the internet and what do have HERE?!
"...as kings (European kings) wore crowns, so the chiefs of the Arabs wore red turbans ...brought to the desert from Harah, from the desert, red turbans which nobles among the Arabs wore" See E. W. Lanes, Arabic English Lexicon, 2003 p. 2058
Time to copy to my files. And guess its time for "the Queen of cut and paste" as one Euronut has called me - to make her rounds. lol!
That one I got to admit I didn't expect to find right off the bat. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
And in case u r wondering if the red turbaned black men coming from al Harrah were really BLACK it will be good to remind you of what Al Jahiz the so-called black iraqi wrote in the 9th century of the populations of al Harrah in Arabia. "...all the peoples settled in the Harra, aside from the Banu Sulaim are black..." from The Essays, 860 AD.
"Al Harrah is a large basaltic volcanic field in northwestern Saudi Arabia near the Jordanian border. It covers an area of 15,200 km2" brought to u by Wikipedia Euronut historians' favorite posting spot.
Al -harrah Land of Medina and the clans of Khazraj, Azd, Aus, and the original tribes of the Adnanites, Ghatafan, Sulaym, Hawazin, Mansur, Quaysh, Kinanah and other of the clans of the early and true Arabs who entered Spain AND SETTLED THERE before the 11th century.
Good luck with explaining away that one, Euronut lover.
"The people of this country are stalwart and fine looking, and their limbs and faces are of a VERY DARK PURPLE COLOR..." written by Ma Huan 14th century documenter for admiral and Chinese Muslim Zheng He on the Arabs between northwest Saudi Arabia (Mecca) and southern Saudi Arabia (Jizan) From the document Ying-Yai Sheng "The Overall Survey of the Ocean’s Shores" See p. 173 fn. 1 published http://faculty.washington.edu/qing/huan_ying-yai_sheng-lan%5B1%5D.pdfPosts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL And the Lyinass worm again gets busted!
It seems she is trying to 'lighten up' the Moorish invasion of Europe so to speak by making the black presence less than it really was.
Funny how the actual topic of this thread is not even about the Moorish invasion of Europe but of Moorish homelands in the Maghgreb in relation to other Africans further south, yet she manages to interject her silly lies anyway.
Dje, Doug, Jari, Dana et al can one of you recap the African presence among the Moorish armies, or provide a link to such?
Yes I will have to go back to my earlier posts though.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL And the Lyinass worm again gets busted!
It seems she is trying to 'lighten up' the Moorish invasion of Europe so to speak by making the black presence less than it really was.
Funny how the actual topic of this thread is not even about the Moorish invasion of Europe but of Moorish homelands in the Maghgreb in relation to other Africans further south, yet she manages to interject her silly lies anyway.
Dje, Doug, Jari, Dana et al can one of you recap the African presence among the Moorish armies, or provide a link to such?
Yes I will have to go back to my earlier posts though.
From the book, The Moors, the Islamic West 7th to 15th century A.D., we learn, “the first Berber tribe to convert to Islam appears to have been the powerful lowland Masmuda…”(Nicolle & McBride, 2001, p. 6).
The geographer al-Ya‘qubi spoke of “established Berber tribes and clan-like structures in the Valencia region as early as the ninth century” and at the turn of the 10th century a Mahdi named Al Qitt was able to raise an army of 60,000 Berber men in Andalus.
See (Fromherz, A, North Africa and the Twelfth-century Renaissance: Christian Europe and the Almohad Islamic Empire, North Africa and the Twelfth-century. Islam and Christian–Muslim Relations, 20(1), 43–59. p. 45; Guichard, 1992, p. 684). Guichard, P. (1992). The social history of Muslim Spain from the conquest to the end of the Almohad re´gime (early 2nd/8th-early 7th/13th centuries), in: S. K. Jayyusi (Ed.) The Legacy of Muslim Spain, pp. 679–708 (Leiden: E.J.Brill).
Of course both Abu Shama and Nasir Khusroes (11th c. )document the Masmuda as "blacks" in the Arabic dialect. Their were 20,000 Masmuda in the Fatimid army according to Yaacov Lev, (1987) “Army Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt” International Journal of Middle East Studies, 19(3), 337-365. p. 342.
The Almohade dynasty was of course a Masmuda dynasty which flourished between 1056 and 1147. After taking over the Almoravid (Tuareg, Fulani, Zaghai/Songhai) Andalusian territories they transferred the Almoravid capital to Seville from Cordoba.
Along with the Masmuda, the Zanata were among the 10,000 mostly Berber troops that first set out to conquer Spain under Tariq Ibn Ziyad in the 8th century. According to Pierre Guichard’s, “Social History of Muslim Spain” they left their names all over the region of Andalus. "… names of present day towns and large villages, such as Mequinenza in Aragon, Adzaneta in the Valencia region and Azuagha in the south of the present province of Badajoz, still, for instance, recall the tribal names Miknasa, Zanata and Zuwagha, of Maghribi origin. There were undoubtedly many other such cases in the geography of al-Andalus. In fact the geographer al –Istakhri, from the first half of the 4th/10th century, indicates, along the stages of the road from Cordoba to the Lower Frontier, in regions on the two sides of the Guadiana between the Guadalquivir and Duero valleys, districts or localities bearing the names of the Miknasa, Hawwara and Nafza Berber tribes" (1992, p. 685).
Abdulwahid Dhanun Taha in his book, Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North Africa and Spain (1988), mentions that a “huge” proportion of the Zenata were in fact a group known as the Jarawa - sometimes written Jawara (p. 24).
During one of the ethnic conflicts amongst the Moors in Andalusia, the Maghrawa were awarded territories north of Cordoba (Larsson, G. 2003, Ibn García's shu’ūbiyya letter: Ethnic and theological tensions in medieval al-Andalus. Leiden and Boston: Brill. p. 48, fn. 40). Al- Dimashqi of the (14th century?) calls the Maghrawa, a branch of “Sudan” whom he designates “son of Ham”(Hopkins & Levtzion, 2000, Corpus of early Arabic sources for West African history. Princeton, NJ: Markus Weiner Publishers, p. 212).
By the 11th century the Zenata clans of Nafzawa who named Jebel Nafusa and Miknassa “were settled between the region of Galicia and the city of Cordova” in Andalusia (Bakhit, M.A, 2000, p. 290). The Banu Yafran (Ifuren Tuareg, the brethren of Nafzawa) were settled in Jaen. Miknassa were also living in the Ville de los Pedroches to the northwest of Cordoba and in the Saragossa region where the place name of Mequinensa still recalls its one time inhabitants (Makki, 1992, The political history of al-Andalus. In: S. K. Jayyusi (Ed.), The Legacy of Muslim Spain, pp. 679–708. Leiden: Brill. p. 56; Ilahiane, Historical dictionary of the Berbers. Lanham/MD: Scarecrow Press, p. 87).
Mones wrote in his article, “The Conquest of North Africa and Berber Resistance” that “the Zanata (or Zanatians) inhabited Cyrenaica and Tripolitania, extending southward as far as Djabal Nafusa and the oases of Fezzan, the predominant confederations of kabilas being those of the Hawwara, Luwata, Nafusa, and Zaghawa” (In M. Fasi, & I. Hrbek (Eds.), Africa from the 7th to the 11th Century (pp. 224-245). UNESCO p. 228).
Leo Africanus mentioned the founders of the Almoravid dynasty (1062–1150) - the Lamtuna (Kel Aulamidden Tuareg of Niger) portion of the Sanhaja, - Leo Africanus says, were Sanhaja “from out of the desert of Numidia” and founders of the city of Marrakesh.
Levtzion says that “in spite of the inter-tribal tension in the desert, thousands of Juddala and Massufa took part in the military exploits of the Almoravids in the Maghrib and in Spain” (Hopkins & Levtzion, 2000, p. 212). The Massufa were a major Tuareg tribe.The Juddala or Goddala were the combined people of places like Takrur, the Fulani (Bani Warith) and the Zaghai or Songhai who were the Zanega mentioned in some texts.
It is important to note that the Zaghai or Zaghawa were considered an important portion of tboth the Sanhaja and Zanata Berbers perhaps the bulk of the Zanata.Harold MacMichael in his Tribes of Northern and Central Kordofan says that the 12th century Idrisi in his, The Tribes of Northern and Central Kordofan said the Zaghawa were Berbers and connected them with the Sodraya. Sidrata who named the Syrtic region of Libya. (MacMichael, 1967, p.106)
There is reason to believe "the Berbers" were essentially the groups now called Tuareg, NiloSaharans (Zaghai/Zaghawa/Songhai) and Fulani or Fulitani.
The Masmuda were probably a combination of Zaghai and Tuareg as well as Africanus makes the Gomara people originally from the Bardoa of Libya.
Like Marrakesh, all of the north African "towns" of the western Maghreb such as Sijilmassa, Aghmat, Fez, Meknes, Oran etc. had been founded and settled by the Berbers mentioned previously.
Th
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass b|tch: other jackass, Maure is Roman, Maurisi is Greek.
Yes and BOTH share the same root which means BLACK, trick!
quote:The name Moor derives from the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BCE in what is now northern central and western part of Algeria and a part of northern Morocco.The Maure (Moors) were trading partners of Carthage, founded by Phoenicians. During the second Punic war between Carthage and Rome, two Moorish Numidian kings took different sides, Syphax with Carthage, Masinissa with the Romans.
Syphax
Masinissa
1. You forgot to cite your source again, plagiarizing twit!
2. I suppose you posted those (UNPAINTED) portraits of Numidians in form of minted coins as proof they weren't black, and you basis is what? Their features?? How many times must we tell you, trick, that there are plenty of blacks in Africa both in the north as well as "Sub-Sahara" who have such features.
North African (Moor)
Sahelian African
African far south of the Sahara
If all these African men above had their profiles on ancient coins, no doubt you would use their coins as proof that they are somehow non-black! LOL
Brada has recently shredded your coin argument in another thread with his post of Ethiopian coinage.
Your Lyinass Productions are destroyed!
quote:Bitch
Is exactly what YOU are! A lying ass bitch, who keeps making the SAME stupid ass arguments over and over and over again no matter how many times they are debunked!! Dozens of threads have been made on the topic of Moors, and in every one where you try to argue that some Moors weren't black you FAIL! Why?? Because Moor means BLACK and the use of the word was synonymous with BLACK. And all the lying and coins of keen featured Africans in the world can change that. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: The citation above we see all over the Internet. And according to Wikipedia pseudo scholars, appears to come from the book: Michael Brett and Elizabeth Fentress, The Berbers at 25 & 77; Gabriel Camps, Les Berbères (Edisud 1996) at 20–21, 25
Now, can anyone of you help me to find the word Maure in this book, because I couldn't find it.
However, we can only wonder why these two authors didn't subscribe to the etymology of the word Maure. As is historically recorded. What was the motif, what was the intention? Why didn't they mention any of this...(see below)
Αἰθίοψ, οπος, ὁ, fem. Αἰθιοπίς, ίδος, ἡ (Αἰθίοψ as fem., A.Fr.328, 329): pl. Αἰθιοπῆες Il.1.423, whence nom. Αἰθιοπεύς Call.Del.208: (αἴθω, ὄψ):— properly, Burnt-face, i.e. Ethiopian, negro, Hom., etc.; prov., Αἰθίοπα σμήχειν 'to wash a blackamoor white', Luc.Ind. 28. 2. a fish, Agatharch.109.
II. Adj., Ethiopian, Αἰθιοπὶς γλῶσσα Hdt.3.19; γῆ A.Fr.300, E.Fr.228.4: Subst. Αἰθιοπίς, ἡ, title of Epic poem in the Homeric cycle; also name of a plant, silver sage, Salvia argentea, Dsc.4.104:— also Αἰθιόπιος, α, ον, E.Fr.349: Αἰθιοπικός, ή, όν, Hdt., etc.; Αἰ. κύμινον, = ἄμι, Hp.Morb.3.17, Dsc. 3.62:— Subst. Αἰθιοπία, ἡ, Hdt., etc.
The word Mavri/Mauri is a derogatory word for blacks in Greek today.
The word Mauri is related to the word blackberry in latin - Morulus. "The image of the Black in western Art: From the early Christian era to the' age of discovery': From the demonic threat to the incarnation of sainthood." Harvard University Press.
That could be, I don't kow about it.
But it reminds me of Italians calling black Americans mullah. The word Mullah has an Afrasian Arabic root. Meaning teacher!
By any chance, they simply have forgotten about the actual meaning of these words, in how is was applied once.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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But it reminds me of Italians calling black Americans mullah. The word mullah has an Afrasian Arabic root. Meaning teacher!
By any chance, they simply have forgotten about the actual meaning of these words, in how it was applied once.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
^ Actually, the Italian word 'moula' has nothing to do with the Arabic word 'mullah' but is merely a direct descendant of the Latin word 'maure'. The differences are only the result of phonetic shifts such as the consonant 'r' to 'l' and obvious shifts in vowels. A derogatory Italian slang word for black person is 'moulinyan' which has the same root word but is actually the word for eggplant! Another Italian word for eggplant is 'melanzana'. Obviously the color description of this vegetable is not purple but a color much darker!
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: The word Mavri/Mauri is a derogatory word for blacks in Greek today.
The word Mauri is related to the word blackberry in latin - Morulus. "The image of the Black in western Art: From the early Christian era to the' age of discovery': From the demonic threat to the incarnation of sainthood." Harvard University Press.
LOL That's funny considering that in Latin derived languages, 'negro' became a derogatory word for blacks and out of respect, the word was restricted to black colored objects as opposed to people. (Btw, I learned all this from language sources cited by Takruri) So instead the preferred word used for black people in Latin based languages is 'moro' and it's variations.
Of course all of this linguistic evidence runs counter to the claims of the lyingass worm! LOL I suppose the Latin word for blackberry 'morulus' simply meant 'brown' or 'tawny' North African berry! LMAOPosts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^That could be, I don't know about it.
But it reminds me of Italians calling black Americans mullah. The word mullah has an Afrasian Arabic root. Meaning teacher!
By any chance, they simply have forgotten about the actual meaning of these words, in how it was applied once.
Umm...Wow patrol. I don't know where u got ur info but - Im thinking your thinking of the word "Mouli", which is short for "moulinyan". This has nothing to do with the word Mullah. an Islamic teacher. "Mouli' or "Moulinyan" meant eggplant because of the color of the eggplant.
Believe me when an Italian or Sicilian speaks of a "Mouli" he is not talking about a teacher.lol!
The word "Mavri" in Greek has the same meaning it had in the past - a black person. But it has come to mean something more derogatory than that. The same change has occurred for Nigra and the N word since the 19th century U.S. for the same reasons. The word was originally just the common Scottish pronunciation for Neggar (German) or Negro (Spanish) all meaning simply black or the black.
White Americans became offended by its usage by common southern whites in the U.S. because of the way blacks were treated. Among southerners the word wasn't originally a derogatory term for blacks or whites just the regional pronunciation for the more WASPY (Anglo Saxon Protestant) sounding "Negro".
Thus, after the Civil Rights era when southern whites met Blacks in the military and became friendly with them they would quite innocently ask things like:
What do Nig_ers like to be called?.lol!
The same thing occurred for the words colored or "cullu'ed" and Negro ussed by blacks and whites in the 1960s. Now many white people are still offended by the term Negro while blacks especially older blacks don't understand the problem, and of course younger whites think they are offending somebody when they use it. But there was a time and not that long ago when "black" was the "fighting word".
People don't realize that the word "gypsy" is considered very offensive to Romanies and the word Falasha is very offensive to the Beta Israel in Ethiopia.
The latter of course was not originally offensive, but an ethnic name.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ Interesting short expose on historical trends in ethnic word usage. Takruri has posted such commentary on several occasions. Either way it all boils down to Moor meaning BLACK.
Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: ^That could be, I don't know about it.
But it reminds me of Italians calling black Americans mullah. The word mullah has an Afrasian Arabic root. Meaning teacher!
By any chance, they simply have forgotten about the actual meaning of these words, in how it was applied once.
Umm...Wow patrol. I don't know where u got ur info but - Im thinking your thinking of the word "Mouli", which is short for "moulinyan". This has nothing to do with the word Mullah. an Islamic teacher. "Mouli' or "Moulinyan" meant eggplant because of the color of the eggplant.
Believe me when an Italian or Sicilian speaks of a "Mouli" he is not talking about a teacher.lol!
The word "Mavri" in Greek has the same meaning it had in the past - a black person. But it has come to mean something more derogatory than that. The same change has occurred for Nigra and the N word since the 19th century U.S. for the same reasons. The word was originally just the common Scottish pronunciation for Neggar (German) or Negro (Spanish) all meaning simply black or the black.
White Americans became offended by its usage by common southern whites in the U.S. because of the way blacks were treated. Among southerners the word wasn't originally a derogatory term for blacks or whites just the regional pronunciation for the more WASPY (Anglo Saxon Protestant) sounding "Negro".
Thus, after the Civil Rights era when southern whites met Blacks in the military and became friendly with them they would quite innocently ask things like:
What do Nig_ers like to be called?.lol!
The same thing occurred for the words colored or "cullu'ed" and Negro ussed by blacks and whites in the 1960s. Now many white people are still offended by the term Negro while blacks especially older blacks don't understand the problem, and of course younger whites think they are offending somebody when they use it. But there was a time and not that long ago when "black" was the "fighting word".
People don't realize that the word "gypsy" is considered very offensive to Romanies and the word Falasha is very offensive to the Beta Israel in Ethiopia.
The latter of course was not originally offensive, but an ethnic name.
Hummm, I guess I heard some rumours.
Let's pretend I never mentioned it.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting short expose on historical trends in ethnic word usage. Takruri has posted such commentary on several occasions. Either way it all boils down to Moor meaning BLACK.
we assume when you say BLACK you mean of African descent only
BLACK
NOT BLACK
correct me if I am wrong
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting short expose on historical trends in ethnic word usage. Takruri has posted such commentary on several occasions. Either way it all boils down to Moor meaning BLACK.
we assume when you say BLACK you mean of African descent only
BLACK
...
correct me if I am wrong
Dunce, you are wrong as usual.
It was a universal Muurish civilization!
I gonna help you now:
Muurs from New Guinea:
Muurish King Kamehameha of Hawaii:
Muurish India, Andaman;
Muurish Greece, Greece
Muurish China, Beijin:
Any Muurs questions??
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Interesting short expose on historical trends in ethnic word usage. Takruri has posted such commentary on several occasions. Either way it all boils down to Moor meaning BLACK.
we assume when you say BLACK you mean of African descent only
Actually not necessarily. The word was of course at times used for Indians, Arabians and sometimes the early gypsies a lot because of their color, as well as certain other people extending across Asia that were the color of black Africans. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^ The lying worm knows that! She just wants to play her game of stupidity again and then post a light-skinned man of probably mixed African descent along with a Native American man of the same complexion as part of her senseless and specious picture spam game.
Too bad for her we won't play her dumb games. She is just upset that the Latin word for blackberry morulus is not a reference to "brown" or "tawny" and neither is the modern Italian slur against blacks moulinyan whose root descends from maure.
Lyinass productions flushed down the toilet again. Posts: 26246 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ The lying worm knows that! She just wants to play her game of stupidity again and then post a light-skinned man of probably mixed African descent along with a Native American man of the same complexion as part of her senseless and specious picture spam game.
Too bad for her we won't play her dumb games. She is just upset that the Latin word for blackberry morulus is not a reference to "brown" or "tawny" and neither is the modern Italian slur against blacks moulinyan whose root descends from maure.
Lyinass productions flushed down the toilet again.
In other words Djehootie was stumped again afraid to answer the question so he waited until someone else tried. Ironlioned came up with, hey never mind this Peruvian look at the Papua New Guinian, he's a Moor , I mean Muur. Then dana said:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: we assume when you say BLACK you mean of African descent only
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Actually not necessarily. The word was of course at times used for Indians, Arabians and sometimes the early gypsies a lot because of their color, as well as certain other people extending across Asia that were the color of black Africans.
dana Djehootie needs a clear opinion to copy not some historical "at times was used for" or "not necessarily" or "he's Black but not on weekends" I'm asking you today, not "at times" or was used by some people sometimes I'm asking you today is this man Black or not Black? Djehootie needs to be able to have an answer to this simple yes or no question. He always gets stumped by this dilema and needs your guidance.
Also Ironed, we are dealing with the man above, not Papua New Guinians, not Chinese people, not Greeks. Please try to stay focused and deal with this man in particular or simply let dana handle it. I realize you have an urge to post on Blacks of Finland but please create a new thread for that
SECOND QUESTION, dana:
are both these men Berbers? please nothing fancy , just yes or no, thanks
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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If you follow the mast of the ship upward to the headline text it points to " morus"
Saint James Moorslayer, 15th century
"Moor" is not a precise term or ethnicity. It is a term imposed by Europeans and imposed loosely.
Studying the second picture what do we see, a man with decapitated limbs and head. Looking at his uniform. It looks somewhat European in style. Likely it was a knight.
That's what I thought, Patrol.lol! When LyinG _ss is photo spamming u never know what deception she's going to throw at you. Sword looks a little Muslim though.
Getting back at the Spanish armor, we can see the striking similarities.
Spanish armor that is decorated with inlays or "damascene" is a tradition that was learned from the Muslims.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: "Berber" is another loose term imposed by later outsiders
this is a Libyan off the tomb walls of Ramesses, deal with it
How many times are u going to post paintings that have been modified from their original character Lying A.lol!
Ummm and didn't you post that picture elsewhere a different color.
Faded paint not withstanding... Uve proved my point.
Dealt with. And you lose. This is fun!lol!
This should be part of my course on how to make a Euronut Lover frustrated 101.lmbo!
Hello Dana. I am new to this form and have found some extraordinary info here. The images above concerns me here. I thought the image post by lioness the first image was authentic. The picture you presented of the Libyan is darker. How can you tell if its been modified. I always thought this was the original pic in Ramses 111 tomb
Notice the Libyan on the wall to the right. Not trying to you are wrong but just need to understand. If you pic is right then I am very concern about the pic which I have shown. Do you have the original pic of Ramses tomb which shows the Libyan in the color hue in your pic. Just making a geniune inquirer. Thanks Ethiop
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
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Hello Dana. I am new to this form and have found some extraordinary info here. The images above concerns me here. I thought the image post by lioness the first image was authentic. The picture you presented of the Libyan is darker. How can you tell if its been modified. I always thought this was the original pic in Ramses 111 tomb
Notice the Libyan on the wall to the right. Not trying to you are wrong but just need to understand. If you pic is right then I am very concern about the pic which I have shown. Do you have the original pic of Ramses tomb which shows the Libyan in the color hue in your pic. Just making a geniune inquirer. Thanks Ethiop
Both pictures are authentic. Settings on the camera and lighting conditions may vary. A picture may come out yellowed. A painting also may be darkened by dirt or faded by exposeure to light. Some photos are taken in good lighting, others in dim lighting. Sometimes if a photo is reproduced in a book the way the book is printed can change the colors. There are many variables
The Libyan at the top of this post is a lower resolution digital enlargement of the following photo's figures:
Left figure enlarged Right figure enlarged
Your 4 figure photo above appears to be from the same series as this below both with more accurate, less yellowed color:
There are at least 140 known "tribal networks" in Libya, many of which subdivide into several clans and groups. These are not fully documented and detailed information about them and their divisions remains sketchy. see this link:
As with ancient Egypt some Libyans are shown light skinned others darker:
"These be the Libyan tribes whereof I am able to give the names; and most of these cared little then, and indeed care little now, for the king of the Medes. One thing more also I can add concerning this region, namely, that, so far as our knowledge reaches, four nations, and no more, inhabit it; and two of these nations are indigenous, while two are not. The two indigenous are the Libyans and Ethiopians, who dwell respectively in the north and the south of Libya. The Phoenicians and the Greek are in-comers."
"Westward of the river Triton and adjoining upon the Auseans, are other Libyans who till the ground, and live in houses: these people are named the Maxyans. They let the hair grow long on the right side of their heads, and shave it close on the left; they besmear their bodies with red paint; and they say that they are descended from the men of Troy." Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lyinass: [qb] jackass you in this photo you can hardley even make out the prince's face. You don't even know what you are looking at. >>You think the man in red is army of one in this picture? dumbass
You are the racist looking for purity. I am the one saying that there were multiple ethnicities involved.
LOL Who said anything about "purity" lying snake. Of course there were multiple ethnicities but make no mistake Moor means BLACK and the invasion of Spain was done primarily by Moorish (BLACK) North Africans even if the Arabs imported white European slaves or others.
yes, what the Europeans called "Moor" at the time of the Crusades included a variety of ethnicities, various shades of brown skinned people living in NA.
Because you can cpaitalize the word BLACK does not mean older conceptions of what it means are the same as 19th century "negro" racial conceptions of the term.
Hence in older versions of what black meant compared to Europeans the following people could all be considered "blacks". Even in Holland today schools with a lot of brown skinned Turks and a much lesser amount of "black North Africans" get called "black schools" This also shows that the concept of what "black" means in some Euroepan countries, even today, differs from the American concept.
we also have this term "blackamoor". When "black" is used in this form it means a pitched black stereotype, not of people from North Africa at all but stereoype characters representing "exotic Africans" such as:
of this anonymous generic "Moor" who has been de-Islamified with a European crown:
^^^this type of thing comes later, the former enemy now trasformed into a cute mascot of black Africans in general, not even people from the North
you do realize N. Africa is still over 50% black right? Well you wouldn't know that because you search flickr for pictures instead of actually doing research or having been to the place.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ The lying worm knows that! She just wants to play her game of stupidity again and then post a light-skinned man of probably mixed African descent along with a Native American man of the same complexion as part of her senseless and specious picture spam game.
Too bad for her we won't play her dumb games. She is just upset that the Latin word for blackberry morulus is not a reference to "brown" or "tawny" and neither is the modern Italian slur against blacks moulinyan whose root descends from maure.
Lyinass productions flushed down the toilet again.
In other words Djehootie was stumped again afraid to answer the question so he waited until someone else tried. Ironlioned came up with, hey never mind this Peruvian look at the Papua New Guinian, he's a Moor , I mean Muur. Then dana said:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: we assume when you say BLACK you mean of African descent only
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Actually not necessarily. The word was of course at times used for Indians, Arabians and sometimes the early gypsies a lot because of their color, as well as certain other people extending across Asia that were the color of black Africans.
dana Djehootie needs a clear opinion to copy not some historical "at times was used for" or "not necessarily" or "he's Black but not on weekends" I'm asking you today, not "at times" or was used by some people sometimes I'm asking you today is this man Black or not Black? Djehootie needs to be able to have an answer to this simple yes or no question. He always gets stumped by this dilema and needs your guidance.
Also Ironed, we are dealing with the man above, not Papua New Guinians, not Chinese people, not Greeks. Please try to stay focused and deal with this man in particular or simply let dana handle it. I realize you have an urge to post on Blacks of Finland but please create a new thread for that
SECOND QUESTION, dana:
are both these men Berbers? please nothing fancy , just yes or no, thanks
Both are berber, one is the descendant of European slaves I would assume and the other is a african/berber/amazigh Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Both are berber, one is the descendant of European slaves I would assume and the other is a african/berber/amazigh [/QB]
It's ignorant to say the man is descended from slaves. He may be he may not be
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Hello Dana. I am new to this form and have found some extraordinary info here. The images above concerns me here. I thought the image post by lioness the first image was authentic. The picture you presented of the Libyan is darker. How can you tell if its been modified. I always thought this was the original pic in Ramses 111 tomb
Notice the Libyan on the wall to the right. Not trying to you are wrong but just need to understand. If you pic is right then I am very concern about the pic which I have shown. Do you have the original pic of Ramses tomb which shows the Libyan in the color hue in your pic. Just making a geniune inquirer. Thanks Ethiop
Both pictures are authentic. Settings on the camera and lighting conditions may vary. A picture may come out yellowed. A painting also may be darkened by dirt or faded by exposeure to light. Some photos are taken in good lighting, others in dim lighting. Sometimes if a photo is reproduced in a book the way the book is printed can change the colors. There are many variables
The Libyan at the top of this post is a lower resolution digital enlargement of the following photo's figures:
Left figure enlarged Right figure enlarged
Your 4 figure photo above appears to be from the same series as this below both with more accurate, less yellowed color:
There are at least 140 known "tribal networks" in Libya, many of which subdivide into several clans and groups. These are not fully documented and detailed information about them and their divisions remains sketchy. see this link:
As with ancient Egypt some Libyans are shown light skinned others darker:
Thanks lioness for your input
Posts: 48 | From: US | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't know why this thread was moved..?? It was never meant to be about if the Moors were black, but thanks to the Lioness who came to my thread with the malicious intent of disruption and disorder managed to ruin my thread.
disrespectful filth! No where do I post to her threads with offtopic ****..Have nothing to contribute, can't answer the original requests presented to her, but will bog my thread down with irrelevant b.s.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Don't know why this thread was moved..?? It was never meant to be about if the Moors were black, but thanks to the Lioness who came to my thread with the malicious intent of disruption and disorder managed to ruin my thread.
disrespectful filth! No where do I post to her threads with offtopic ****..Have nothing to contribute, can't answer the original requests presented to her, but will bog my thread down with irrelevant b.s.
you have got to be kidding. You started this thread quoting me, mentioning my name. The first four posts are your posts in a row. The third one says:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Lioness, when you say "Moors did to Songhai" you support or uphold the idea that Moors=North Africans and Sonhai=Sudanis or "Negros" correct??
___________________^^^^ "It was never meant to be about if the Moors were black"
yeah right jari
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: SECOND QUESTION, dana:
are both these men Berbers? please nothing fancy , just yes or no, thanks
Berber today is the name of a people who speak the Berber-dialect - so I personally wouldn't know. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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