I owe some of you a apology. I thought when you guys talk of black ruling families in Europe, I though, man these guys are on some extra stuff. BUT, Like the saying goes, WE don't believe until a white man says it LOL.
Anyway, you are going to have to read between the lines in some of this. It starts off telling you what color the Al Mohavids were "black skinned" is what it says. THEN it talks about a specific family and while they don't come out and say "negro", notice that when the speak of the origin of the Gusman family they then cut to someone playing chess and placing a BLACK Knight on the chess board.
I am going to dedicate a year of my life to learning formal Spanish. I am very interested to see what these people have wrote about Africans ruling over them during that time period of the Moors.
posted
^The inability of some to grasp the concept has interested me for some time now.
Not to say that one shouldn't be skeptical when presented with new ideas. On my own part, when presented with the concept of Europeans being Albinos, I didn't believe it, until MK proved it to me several years ago. Then I successfully went on to find proofs of my own.
Point being, when it was proved to me, I believed it. Proofs of Black rule in Europe have been posted here for a long time now, yet you admit that you couldn't believe it until an Albino said it was so.
It would probably be helpful to all Black researchers to understand your inherent resistance to these concepts. If you can analyze your feelings, please share your thoughts. If you feel uncomfortable in the open forum, please sent an IM.
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I have yet to see anything on these forums that would pass for true scholarship on the subject. It was little more than flickr pictures and a bunch of babble. I have no hard time believing something when the SCHOLARSHIP is there. In the instance of this video, this person is able to present family records, i.e. primary sources attesting to the fact. She didn't pull out a flickr picture and say HEY, look blacks ruled Europe. Anyone believing something like that should have their head examined. Now I would like to see more scholarship detailing how deep this thing goes.
I should add, its like when Clyde Winters made the claim that Elam was inhabited by black people. I didn't believe him either at first. THEN later on he posted a primary source i.e. the writings of Rawlinson detailing what he found and used to crack cunieform and who he felt the people of Elam were based on his use of certain languages to crack that Elamite writing. Once I saw that, I said well, OK there is nothing else to talk about, he provided proof.
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Certainly you must know, that I know, you answer is completely illogical and bogus. We reconstruct European history with bits and pieces out of necessity, not choice. Whatever you are, you're not so stupid as to not to understand that.
So what's the point of this farce?
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posted
Quote: THEN later on he posted a primary source i.e. the writings of Rawlinson detailing what he found and used to crack cunieform and who he felt the people of Elam were based on his use of certain languages to crack that Elamite writing. Once I saw that, I said well, OK there is nothing else to talk about, he provided proof.
Buffoon - how would cuneiform and language prove race?
I ask again: what's the point of this farce?
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posted
Rawlinson wants to crack cuneiform. He then uses a African Language to decipher it. Rawlinson then writes book about the subject and mentions in the foot notes: he feels the people were Africans because of the physical appearance of the royal mummies & the language, it becomes rather clear.
Hope that helps you understand.
Again scholarship as opposed to flickr picture and far fetched stories. One I can get behind (scholarship) and the other (flickr pictures and conjecture) I cant.
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And there are others with the Moor motif but not the sir name, they may yet be others that don't have either,and I gave the example of Abraham Hannibal,yes it was a very complex picture,also keep in mind the vid on Mexican Blacks posted by Jari although they liked to mix it up they also have this thing called the Limpieza De Sangre of cleansing of the blood
"It was the Spaniards who gave the world the notion that an aristocrat's blood is not red but blue. The Spanish nobility started taking shape around the ninth century in classic military fashion, occupying land as warriors on horseback. They were to continue the process for more than five hundred years, clawing back sections of the peninsula from its Moorish occupiers, and a nobleman demonstrated his pedigree by holding up his sword arm to display the filigree of blue-blooded veins beneath his pale skin--proof that his birth had not been contaminated by the dark-skinned enemy." Robert Lacey, Aristocrats. Little, Brown and Company, 1983, p. 6.
Procedure to judge Purity of Blood The earliest known case judging Limpieza de Sangre comes from the Church of Cordoba, that explained the procedure to judge the purity of blood of a candidate as follows: Kneeling, with his right hand placed over the image of a crucifix on a Bible, the candidate confirmed not being either of either Jewish or Moorish extraction. Then the candidate provided the names of the parents and grandparents, as well as places of birth. Two delegates of the council, church or other public place would then research the information to make sure it was truthful. If the investigation had to be carried out of Cordoba, a person, not necessarily a member of the council would be appointed to examine the witnesses appointed by the candidate. This researcher would receive a sum per diem according to the rank of the person, the distance traveled and the time spent. Having collected all the reports, the secretary or the notary must read them all to the council and a vote would decide whether the candidate was approved. A simple majority was sufficient, after which the candidate had to promise to obey all the laws and customs of the Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre#Procedure_to_judge_Purity_of_Blood So it was a reaction to the domination by Africans/Arabs that the above came about to make sure that they did not find their way back into power and to get their lands back,see the vid posted over at ESR. http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pav&action=display&thread=907
But like I explained in another thread all coat of arms have to be looked at individually for sure some are not family founders but captives or on the losing side, enemies of those families encountered in battle.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Do not take my words as an attack on you or anyone else. This Mike character took things to some weird place. All i am saying is, it seems the documentation is out there. The problem is, it is in languages most of us do not know. So we have resulted to relying on secondary sources and pictures to try and prove our points. We need to employ a more scientific approach. It could even mean money for some of us if we can turn this research into published books. I would love to see us starting to learn German, Spanish, French etc and finding these documents, to fully flesh out these theories and turn them into solid facts. It is a very very interesting subject (royal families in Europe are of African origin), and one that begs soooo many questions. Like, if it is a fact that most or all of the royal families in Europe are of African descent two questions arise: did the descendants know of this fact or was it quietly forgotten over time? IF they did know, how do they reconcile this with the European attack and subjugation of Africa and its pillage? It is a amazing topic, with some very interesting implications.
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posted
TypeZeiss I know it's no attack just asking questions and some damned good ones at that, but I'll put it like this all the European High nobles and royals are related,the question of some of them hiding their genealogies,well yes that was answered by the old lady in that vid, but they never ceased to have blacks entering into their families even after the time of the reconquest, look at the Medici family for instance,and again the descendants of Abraham Hannibal ended up in British royals,so yes they knew some kept records, But here is something to think about the later ones do not necessarily considered themselves Blacks and may have no sympathy for anything African,the question is should we who are blacks self identified be gushing over them.
And let me introduce you guys to a new word Mixed Racist. ..racism doesn't end because people mix with other people as some mistakenly believe if one has to devalue one side of your heritage then that's racist.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
The Murabitin, or Almoravids as they were known in Spain, originated as a fundamentalist Islamic sect among the Afro-Berbers of Western Sahara shortly before 1050. As inhabitants of the deep desert they owned few horses and fought almost entirely as infantry, though combat on camelback was also recorded. Later Almoravids reportedly had 30,000 thoroughbred camels, saddled and ready for war. At first, however, they adopted phalanx formations in which a front rank knelt behind long spears and tall shields of tanned oryx skin while rear ranks threw javelins. Later Almoravid cavalry also used long, almost body covering shields. Such tactics were essential static, supposedly never retreating nor even pursuing a defeated foe. A minority wore mail hauberks, and all relied on curved daggers for close combat. The name Murabitin probably reflected this immobility and formation, rather than the rabat or fortress with which it is often associated. Traditional Berber and Saharan tactics had long relied on a barricade or laager of camels from which tribesmen launched repeated charges. Like nomad tactics everywhere, this avoided undue casualties among a scarce manpower. The dedicated Almoravids, however, accepted heavy losses, thus for years proved virtually invincible, particularly after they had won allies among richer northern Saharan cavalry tribes. The role of such horsemen was now to break and pursue a weakened foe, which in turn added flexibility to Almoravids tactics. From the earliest day flags played a leading part in battlefield control, again perhaps reflecting greater discipline compared to other North African armies. Although the first Almoravid leader regarded war-drums as pagan devices, later Almoravid forces made great use of them, particularly in Iberia where they terrified the Christians and panicked their horses. The most characteristic feature of the Almoravid warrior was, however, his litham or face veil. The Almoravids were said to regard the mouth as unclean and to refer to unveiled peoples as’ the fly-mouthed’.
Yusuf ibn Tashfin , second Almoravid leader and man destined to conquer Andalus, reorganised these armies. Original Almoravid forces had been a tribal confederation, but yusuf changed the command structure and created a personal force of black slaves and foreigners. His bodyguard consisted of 500 non-Berber horsemen, including Arabs, Turks and Europeans, supported by a further 2,000 black African cavalry. Christian mercenaries as well as converted Spanish prisoners continued to fight for the Almoravids and their successors both in Andalus and North Africa throughout the late 11th and 12th centuries.
Cavalry also became more important than camel-mounted troops, particularly when operating in Andalus. There the high number of black Africans in Almoravid armies, many recruited from Senegal on the southern frontier of the empire, had a terrifying effect on Christian morale- as did the use of massed drums, unusual forms of bow, enormously long leather shields, bamboo spears and other unfamiliar weapons. A continuing use of large number camels also unsettled the Spaniards’ horses, in fact, such animals had been known in southern Andalus since at least the 10th century. Above all the Spaniards were completely out-manoeuvred by highly mobile Almoravids, leading them to believe their foes were more numerous than they really were. Even in Iberia, however, the Almoravids ultimately relied on an infantry phalanx, which now served as a safe haven from which cavalry could emerge and to which they would return. This was not, of course, new tactics; the Almoravids had refined it. They also gave their horsemen greater freedom of action. Yet the elite status of mounted troops should not be over emphasised, as there are reports of men riding mules in battle when horses were unavailable.
In Andalus the Almoravids not only checked the Christian advance, but also rolled it back a short way. They also took over or rendered tributary all the taifa states, and strengthened an already growing sense of jihad. This concept of Holy Wars was, however, almost entirely concerned to defend Islam rather than to extend it. On the other hand an atmosphere of jihad eroded traditional Andalusian toleration. Such erosion accompanied growing Crusader ideas on the Christian side of the frontier. Persecution of the Andalusian Mozarabs increased and a habit of head-hunting was introduced, to be rapidly copied by the Christians. The Muslim frontier was strengthened, being defended by local militias and religious volunteers backed up by Almoravid units. Strategic cities like Cacares were garrisoned by what can only be described as Muslim ‘monk-soldiers’. Such men, in a long-established Islamic tradition, dedicated part of their lives to these duties before returning to their families.
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: TypeZeiss I know it's no attack just asking questions and some damned good ones at that, but I'll put it like this all the European High nobles and royals are related,the question of some of them hiding their genealogies,well yes that was answered by the old lady in that vid, but they never ceased to have blacks entering into their families even after the time of the reconquest, look at the Medici family for instance,and again the descendants of Abraham Hannibal ended up in British royals,so yes they knew some kept records, But here is something to think about the later ones do not necessarily considered themselves Blacks and may have no sympathy for anything African,the question is should we who are blacks self identified be gushing over them.
And let me introduce you guys to a new word Mixed Racist. ..racism doesn't end because people mix with other people as some mistakenly believe if one has to devalue one side of your heritage then that's racist.
Good post and good points, and yes the old woman did say that. But it seemed to me as if she had no problem acknowledging that heritage and it seems as if it was rediscovered. So i was/am curious, do these people with these blood lines still know? In the case of royals did they know all along? Have they forgotten?
For me, this isn't a issue of feelign proud because white royals have African blood. This for me, helps to fit another piece of the puzzle in one of my theories. I have said many times, I believe there was a black African empire that expanded from India, to parts of Europe (specifically where they are using ge'ez based writing script), down to Arabia, parts of Africa etc. I do not believe these were separate groups, but one solidified empire, united under one banner. I believe these people (Europeans) have gone out of their way to erase this history/fact. The video in the original post speaks about how in Spain they worked over time to erase African history there, so it isn't a far stretch to think the victors (Europeans) may have done the same thing in terms of this African civilization, I believe was erased.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The Murabitin, or Almoravids as they were known in Spain, originated as a fundamentalist Islamic sect among the Afro-Berbers of Western Sahara shortly before 1050. As inhabitants of the deep desert they owned few horses and fought almost entirely as infantry, though combat on camelback was also recorded. Later Almoravids reportedly had 30,000 thoroughbred camels, saddled and ready for war. At first, however, they adopted phalanx formations in which a front rank knelt behind long spears and tall shields of tanned oryx skin while rear ranks threw javelins. Later Almoravid cavalry also used long, almost body covering shields. Such tactics were essential static, supposedly never retreating nor even pursuing a defeated foe. A minority wore mail hauberks, and all relied on curved daggers for close combat. The name Murabitin probably reflected this immobility and formation, rather than the rabat or fortress with which it is often associated. Traditional Berber and Saharan tactics had long relied on a barricade or laager of camels from which tribesmen launched repeated charges. Like nomad tactics everywhere, this avoided undue casualties among a scarce manpower. The dedicated Almoravids, however, accepted heavy losses, thus for years proved virtually invincible, particularly after they had won allies among richer northern Saharan cavalry tribes. The role of such horsemen was now to break and pursue a weakened foe, which in turn added flexibility to Almoravids tactics. From the earliest day flags played a leading part in battlefield control, again perhaps reflecting greater discipline compared to other North African armies. Although the first Almoravid leader regarded war-drums as pagan devices, later Almoravid forces made great use of them, particularly in Iberia where they terrified the Christians and panicked their horses. The most characteristic feature of the Almoravid warrior was, however, his litham or face veil. The Almoravids were said to regard the mouth as unclean and to refer to unveiled peoples as’ the fly-mouthed’.
Yusuf ibn Tashfin , second Almoravid leader and man destined to conquer Andalus, reorganised these armies. Original Almoravid forces had been a tribal confederation, but yusuf changed the command structure and created a personal force of black slaves and foreigners. His bodyguard consisted of 500 non-Berber horsemen, including Arabs, Turks and Europeans, supported by a further 2,000 black African cavalry. Christian mercenaries as well as converted Spanish prisoners continued to fight for the Almoravids and their successors both in Andalus and North Africa throughout the late 11th and 12th centuries.
Cavalry also became more important than camel-mounted troops, particularly when operating in Andalus. There the high number of black Africans in Almoravid armies, many recruited from Senegal on the southern frontier of the empire, had a terrifying effect on Christian morale- as did the use of massed drums, unusual forms of bow, enormously long leather shields, bamboo spears and other unfamiliar weapons. A continuing use of large number camels also unsettled the Spaniards’ horses, in fact, such animals had been known in southern Andalus since at least the 10th century. Above all the Spaniards were completely out-manoeuvred by highly mobile Almoravids, leading them to believe their foes were more numerous than they really were. Even in Iberia, however, the Almoravids ultimately relied on an infantry phalanx, which now served as a safe haven from which cavalry could emerge and to which they would return. This was not, of course, new tactics; the Almoravids had refined it. They also gave their horsemen greater freedom of action. Yet the elite status of mounted troops should not be over emphasised, as there are reports of men riding mules in battle when horses were unavailable.
In Andalus the Almoravids not only checked the Christian advance, but also rolled it back a short way. They also took over or rendered tributary all the taifa states, and strengthened an already growing sense of jihad. This concept of Holy Wars was, however, almost entirely concerned to defend Islam rather than to extend it. On the other hand an atmosphere of jihad eroded traditional Andalusian toleration. Such erosion accompanied growing Crusader ideas on the Christian side of the frontier. Persecution of the Andalusian Mozarabs increased and a habit of head-hunting was introduced, to be rapidly copied by the Christians. The Muslim frontier was strengthened, being defended by local militias and religious volunteers backed up by Almoravid units. Strategic cities like Cacares were garrisoned by what can only be described as Muslim ‘monk-soldiers’. Such men, in a long-established Islamic tradition, dedicated part of their lives to these duties before returning to their families.
No need to reinvent the wheel, you have already been dealt with here linkPosts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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typeZeiss I realize that the idea that Blacks of African ancestry started royal families in Europe an the royal families they started are represented my Moor heads in some heraldry might be an attractive idea for some even though these royal familes later sanstioned the trans Atlantic slave trade. It possible that some members of white European familes had illegitimate children with black attendants. But the idea that the coats of arms that had Moors on them represented memebers of those families is a lie. If you look at any one of thos coats of arms the use of a Moor's head and other images is symbolic. If you look at portraits of te members of those familes they are not pitch black people who wear bandanas and men with earrings. They never put family members, black or white on the coats of arms. The thing they did put on the coats of arms were as symbolic as wildmen who appeared on some coats of arms. If you look into the mythology of the wildman in European herladry such a primitive naked forest person would not be capable of doing anything sophisticated like organizing or being in a royal family, tying his shoes. Yet they used them in the heraldry. It's symbolic just like the use of the Moors head. Were there some Moors in Europe? Yes but they were not founders of European royal families
The Fugger family dynasty began in the mid-14th century with a modest textile business in the Swabian town of Augsburg. Over the next two hundred years the family amassed one of the greatest fortunes of all time. Through banking and mining interests they acquired the wealth and assets of the Florentine House of Medici and exerted great influence over the Holy Roman Empire and the royal courts of Europe. Like the Medici, the Fuggers were also significant patrons of the arts during the Renaissance. The roots of the German Fugger surname lie in the kingdom of Bavaria. The name is derived form the middle high German word "fucker" meaning "sheep shears" (fun fact-lioness)
^^^^ Here's the primary link on the Fugger family dynasty but let's look at the following Coat of Arms first:
Coat of Arms, Fugger family
^^^^ So what does this mean? The Fugger family was black right?
Of course not. Look at how this coat of arms appears, at the top of the following portraits of members of the Fugger family:
On each of these portraits we see Germanic white people of the Fugger family with each of their individual names written in the oval borders. So what is the black black woman doing in the Fugger family Coat of Arms wearing a mitre (bishop's hat?).
The answer applies to all the European heraldry where you see Moors. They don't represent members of the given family they are mascot-like religious/political symbols. The Moors never invaded Germany. The number of blacks in Germany in the 14th century was very few and certainly no artistocratic family of Europe was black. However some blacks were employed as attendants
So what is the nature of the symbolism of this black woman in the Fugger Coat of Arms wearing a Bishops hat? What the fug is it? The exact symbolism is uncertain but it goes back to the former Counts of Kirchberg
" The arms show the arms of the former Counts of Kirchberg. The black figure probably is the black bride as mentioned in the biblical Black Madonna, derived from the line in the biblical Book Song of Songs 1:5 "I am black but comely, O daughters of Jerusalem, ...".
The oldest image of the arms of the Counts of Kirchberg below shows the Black Madonna holding a fleur-de-lys (stylized lily emblem) this was in later images changed to a mitre (Bishop's hat), This was done when Eberhard von Kirchberg became Bishop of Augsburg in 1407."
" Another story states that the arms of the counts simply showed ther devotion to St. Mary and thus showed St. Mary holding her symbol, a fleur-de-lys. In 1273 Emperor Rudolf is said to have punished the Lords of Kirchberg by changing the figure into a black figure as a symbol of shame.
In any case, the arms have been shown during the centuries with a black female and the arms were also taken as such in the arms of the famous Fugger family, when they acquired the county in 1507." _____________________________________________________
Whatever the proper story is the concept is the same blacks used in European heraldry are symbolic they don't represent the appearance of the family members that use these symbols in their coats of arms. The same is true today the Black Madonnas still exist in European churches. Does this mean that the people praying to those madonnas revere black people as a people? Obviously not, later the descendants of these people enslaved blacks. The Fuggers of the 14th century also did not revere blacks as a people and this coat of arm does not mean they did. However they may not have been racist against blacks at this time. More virulent racism was a propaganda tool that was later employed to exploit Africans for labor when Atlantic slave trading developed
But they must have whitened the above portraits right? That doesn't make sense becasue if the did that most certainly would have also whitened the Moor above the family member appearing in the Coat of Arms.
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When all of this process is compromised, from stage 1 on, natural selection is no longer the dominate rudder of the process. Now, it becomes a game of Russian Roulette with combinations of randomly mutated DNA.
Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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posted
Lioness like I said each arms has to be looked at individually and you sure as hell did not look at Fairbairns book of Heraldry for names and descriptions,but o well continue with your cookie cutter response.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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THE MARQUESSES OF DROGHEDA WERE THE PENULTIMATE LANDOWNERS IN COUNTY KILDARE WITH 16,609 ACRES
From two brothers, SIR EDWARD and SIR THOMAS MOORE, knights (descendants of the Moores of Moore Place, Kent), who went over to Ireland, in the reign of ELIZABETH I, sprang the house of Drogheda and the extinct house of Charleville and Tullamore.
SIR EDWARD MOORE, the elder brother, obtained, for his services, from the Queen, a lease of the dissolved abbey of Mellefont, with its appurtenances, County Louth, which he made the principal place of his abode; and so it continued that of his descendants until their removal to Moore Abbey, County Kildare, the seat of the Viscounts Loftus of Ely, which devolved upon the Earl of Drogheda.
Sir Edward's surviving son Garret was created 1st Viscount Moore.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: What a silly little mulatto boy you are, did you really think such childish nonsense would fly here?
*chuckle* oh and "I have no idea what you are talking about" all you want. But take such stupidness somewhere else.
Lioness, this boy needs training!
Whoa,mike111! New info is always startling and often unsettling,especially when it invalidates previous 'truths.' It needs an individual with emotional strength and a certain period to allow for a psychological readjustment. Think back to the Middle Ages:when it was discovered the earth was round not flat,how did people respond?
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
Yes,but not all of us were fortunate enough to start off so well grounded. I remember reading about AE Encyclopedia Brittanica in the early 90s. There is continued reference to 'periods of degeneracy.'You know what that means-it wasn't til the internet era I figured things out. I've just rewatched the video and have a comment and a question: From which documentary was it? The countess makes an extremely revealing comment;many families like hers whitened themselves. Consider the implications!Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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As European power ascend those on the loosing side had to blend and bow to the new order the old ruling classes had to sell out or move anything other than that you could face the inquisition. also please check brother Jose Piementa Bay vid lectures.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^The inability of some to grasp the concept has interested me for some time now.
Not to say that one shouldn't be skeptical when presented with new ideas. On my own part, when presented with the concept of Europeans being Albinos, I didn't believe it, until MK proved it to me several years ago. Then I successfully went on to find proofs of my own.
Point being, when it was proved to me, I believed it. Proofs of Black rule in Europe have been posted here for a long time now, yet you admit that you couldn't believe it until an Albino said it was so.
It would probably be helpful to all Black researchers to understand your inherent resistance to these concepts. If you can analyze your feelings, please share your thoughts. If you feel uncomfortable in the open forum, please sent an IM.
This is what I'am thinking about for a long time now: why can't supposedly educated and rational people not respond to facts and reason. We do have to admit that not only whites resist our logic, so we cannot pin this shortcoming only on whites. But as they dominate it becomes important. As I'm have been posting away on a Belgium site for the past years, I have noticed that this inability to think logical manifests itself in all areas in live. It's impossible to reason with them, about anything. That why I have to assume they are a genocidal, murderous nation. There is again full blown slavery in the Netherlands, they exploit Poles and Romanians, paying them €3 where €8 is the norm: people are actually talking about a 'slavery free' stamp on slavery free champignons. The governement who is supposed to maintain the law cannot go and fine these champignon growers. We are talking about it, it's in all the papers, but we cannot stop it. People, even those who are busy finding human rights violation at the other side of the globe, go about their business while in their own back yard and front yard slavery prevails. Not to mention the trade in women.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
This is the problem Brada most researchers fail to study the roots of ancient Black History. They allow people who are against ancient Afrocentric history to define what the history is, and the authors associated with the study of Afrocentric social science.
Although I learned historical and sociological research methods at University, I had to learn Afrocentric methods from reading J.A. Rogers and W.E.B. DuBois and observing how they conducted their research.
Today it is unnecessary to learn these methods on you own. I have wrote a detailed account of the Afrocentric research methods here:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
Yes,but not all of us were fortunate enough to start off so well grounded. I remember reading about AE Encyclopedia Brittanica in the early 90s. There is continued reference to 'periods of degeneracy.'You know what that means-it wasn't til the internet era I figured things out. I've just rewatched the video and have a comment and a question: From which documentary was it? The countess makes an extremely revealing comment;many families like hers whitened themselves. Consider the implications!
Well it isn't about being well grounded. My family is from Sierra Leone, so I have not had the issue of being taken from my culture and needing to find strength in myself via past deeds, like Africans mating with Europeans. To be honest I don't care that much. I just found it interesting, but it doesn't validate me. The scholarship on this forum, relating to the subject has been piss poor up to this point, with little more than flickr pictures and wikipedia quotes and tons of conjecture. None of that means anything to me. I can accept ANYTHING, even aliens, IF someone provides sold proof with primary sources, other wise, for me, it gets placed on the back burner.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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As European power ascend those on the loosing side had to blend and bow to the new order the old ruling classes had to sell out or move anything other than that you could face the inquisition. also please check brother Jose Piementa Bay vid lectures.
Dr. Bey's series is very good. He is also a very gracious person. I have emailed him previously and he was very prompt in responding, and with good information to boot.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
This is the problem Brada most researchers fail to study the roots of ancient Black History. They allow people who are against ancient Afrocentric history to define what the history is, and the authors associated with the study of Afrocentric social science.
Although I learned historical and sociological research methods at University, I had to learn Afrocentric methods from reading J.A. Rogers and W.E.B. DuBois and observing how they conducted their research.
Today it is unnecessary to learn these methods on you own. I have wrote a detailed account of the Afrocentric research methods here:
Anyone inteested in the structyre of Africalogical research methods should consult this paper.
.
Afrocentric research
1. Get book 2. Look in book for words Black, Dark, Swarthy 3. Declare the discussed people to be Black/Negro 4. Write Whites out of history to make it like they don't exist/didn't exist & write Blacks in their place. 5. Declare anyone who fights against having their history stolen either racist if White or any race other than Black or House Negro/Uncle Tom if Black.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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As European power ascend those on the loosing side had to blend and bow to the new order the old ruling classes had to sell out or move anything other than that you could face the inquisition. also please check brother Jose Piementa Bay vid lectures.
Seeing the entire video really shows how eurocentric it is. In the beginning it talks about the "Berbers" who over run Spain, and claims nothing great really happens because the are nothing more than "tribes men". Then the Arabs come in and fix everything and bring enlightenment. Then the "black skinned" fundamentalist come in and bring havoc. Never mind, these same "black skinned" people form the Sahara are the same as the original Berbers (who were also black skinned).
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
Yes,but not all of us were fortunate enough to start off so well grounded. I remember reading about AE Encyclopedia Brittanica in the early 90s. There is continued reference to 'periods of degeneracy.'You know what that means-it wasn't til the internet era I figured things out. I've just rewatched the video and have a comment and a question: From which documentary was it? The countess makes an extremely revealing comment;many families like hers whitened themselves. Consider the implications!
Well it isn't about being well grounded. My family is from Sierra Leone, so I have not had the issue of being taken from my culture and needing to find strength in myself via past deeds, like Africans mating with Europeans. To be honest I don't care that much. I just found it interesting, but it doesn't validate me. The scholarship on this forum, relating to the subject has been piss poor up to this point, with little more than flickr pictures and wikipedia quotes and tons of conjecture. None of that means anything to me. I can accept ANYTHING, even aliens, IF someone provides sold proof with primary sources, other wise, for me, it gets placed on the back burner.
Native Africans and their naive arrogance towards the Muurish diaspora... Gee!
Listen up fellow, pictures are PRIMARY SOURCES!
Those European authors to whom you give so much credence, and designate as experts and scholars are actually biased SECONDARY SOURCES!
Artefacts, pictures of artefacts, bones, contemporary paintings .. those are PRIMARY SOURCES.
If you study those sources, your eyes will open, and you can reach your own conclusion.
Right now you are blinded and confused by a racist albino controlled academia.
Wake up and live!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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1. Get book 2. Look in book for words Black, Dark, Swarthy 3. Declare the discussed people to be Black/Negro 4. Write Whites out of history to make it like they don't exist/didn't exist & write Blacks in their place. 5. Declare anyone who fights against having their history stolen either racist if White or any race other than Black or House Negro/Uncle Tom if Black.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: kikuyu22 non of this information is exactly new one only had to read authors and researchers like Edward Scobie,J.A Rogers, Jose Pimienta Bey and others I had been reading since my late teens,and all these researchers were kind enough to name their sources,hence the Fairbairn's book of heraldry I got from Rogers yrs ago from Nature Knows No Color Line,so the info has always been here for over 60-70 yrs.
Yes,but not all of us were fortunate enough to start off so well grounded. I remember reading about AE Encyclopedia Brittanica in the early 90s. There is continued reference to 'periods of degeneracy.'You know what that means-it wasn't til the internet era I figured things out. I've just rewatched the video and have a comment and a question: From which documentary was it? The countess makes an extremely revealing comment;many families like hers whitened themselves. Consider the implications!
Well it isn't about being well grounded. My family is from Sierra Leone, so I have not had the issue of being taken from my culture and needing to find strength in myself via past deeds, like Africans mating with Europeans. To be honest I don't care that much. I just found it interesting, but it doesn't validate me. The scholarship on this forum, relating to the subject has been piss poor up to this point, with little more than flickr pictures and wikipedia quotes and tons of conjecture. None of that means anything to me. I can accept ANYTHING, even aliens, IF someone provides sold proof with primary sources, other wise, for me, it gets placed on the back burner.
Native Africans and their naive arrogance towards the Muurish diaspora... Gee!
Listen up fellow, pictures are PRIMARY SOURCES!
Those European authors to whom you give so much credence, and designate as experts and scholars are actually biased SECONDARY SOURCES!
Artefacts, pictures of artefacts, bones, contemporary paintings .. those are PRIMARY SOURCES.
If you study those sources, your eyes will open, and you can reach your own conclusion.
Right now you are blinded and confused by a racist albino controlled academia.
Wake up and live!
I see we have a issue of not understanding the meaning of words. In order for us to converse we must use words in their proper context/meaning. I speak English and I understand words defined properly via a dictionary. We can't go around making up meanings to suit our ill formed opinions.
quote:Primary sources provide first-hand testimony or direct evidence concerning a topic under investigation. They are created by witnesses or recorders who experienced the events or conditions being documented. Often these sources are created at the time when the events or conditions are occurring, but primary sources can also include autobiographies, memoirs, and oral histories recorded later. Primary sources are characterized by their content, regardless of whether they are available in original format, in microfilm/microfiche, in digital format, or in published format. Primary sources can be found in nearly all of Yale's twenty-two libraries as well as at the Peabody Museum of Natural History, the Yale Center for British Art, and the Yale Art Gallery. See the “Tools for Discovery” page for tips on identifying materials relevant to your research.
Many of the paintings and statues I have seen posted here were created AFTER the fact. The information used to back up the pictures were taken from Wikipedia, which generally amounts to some know-nothing spouting whatever they think makes sense, in their uneducated minds. Isn't it Dana from these forums who is on a crusade to try and fix some of the entries on Wikipedia (Dana forgive me if it isn't you)? That place is a terrible place for informations.
As for the "authors" you mentioned, what are you on about? I have not mentioned ANY authors in this thread, so I assume you are speaking out of emotions, and not basing statements on facts. I have read Diop, Bernal, Van Sertima, Jochanan etc etc. With the exception of Jochnanan, I appreciate the scholarship of the above mentioned. Jochanan likes to fly loose with the facts sometimes, which then makes me question a lot of his work, or I should say the portions of his work which may not coincide with the findings of others; but that's another story.
I have also read from non "afrocentric" writers like Massey, Churchward, Budge, Breasted, Rawlinson etc etc. I generally read these Europeans and temper their Eurocentrism with information I have learned from our great scholars like Diop and the like. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water. These Europeans have advanced some information, but it takes us knowing our history as Africans, to be able to sort out the good from the bad info. Also, I will have you know that Dr. Clark and Van Sertima have both often sited both Massey and Churchward as two men whose work they greatly appreciated. Massey to me, while acknowledging Africa as the home of civilization, gives a very eurocentric interpretation to facts and also inserts such bizarre conjecture, that it turns me off. Anyway, we have the facts know on SOME of the authors I enjoy reading etc.
Now, did African's have great empires? Yes! Did we teach the world the sciences and civilization, ummm yep! Did Africans rule over Spain and Southern France, Sicily and God knows where else? Yes to that one too. However, I am not going to tie something to we, Africans just because it sounds good, or because it helps to boost someones diminished self esteem. What I will do is get behind something that has good scholarship OR someone who makes a hypothesis based on good scholarship. Someone bringing me secondary pictures painted after the fact and screaming hey look, black people are the base of European aristocracy, isn't going to cut it for me. Bring me primary sources, bring me some family that say hey, we have the records that shows great, great, great grand pa's real name was Babatunde, and he was from Africa, then ok, I will take that. But Wikipedia and Flickr, ummm nope.
Someone mentioned J.A. Rogers and the like in connection to this topic. I have no problem from reading his work as well, as long as he uses primary resources, other wise I pass. But its not like I care about this topic all that much. For me, in the grand scheme of things, some white family with African roots isn't important. Or I should say, it doesn't affect me in anyway shape or form. But I do like to give credit, where credit is due.
P.S.
I am not sure what a "muurish diaspora" is, so I am not sure what you are talking about on that one. I think this is more of the made up, pseudo history? I have nothing against African people regardless of where on the planet we find them. What I do have something against, is those with slave mentalities. Those making up history or facts and espousing hatred of people because of their origin or color of skin, are slaves in my opinion. It is a reaction to slavery and hence something that directly relates to their sense of inferiority, which stems from Eurocentric society. Hence those thinking they are free because they buy in to these outlandish notions are really just living out a slave culture. It isn't until we embrace ourselves as sons and daughters of Africa, our true African history, culture, and live that out, will we be free. My words sound confusing, I am sure, but hopefully the shackles will be removed one day and you will get my meaning.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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DHDoxies Afrocentric research is not Afro-eccentric research two different things and too bad the two had became blurred by opponents of the original discipline, but for the purpose of this thread please point out what your objections are exactly who went wrong, why and where but painting with abroad brush does not advance knowledge.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Brada, my objections are when Afro-centrics start claiming the histories & identities of other races. Such as claiming the identities of the Celts, Vikings, Danes, Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Normans, Picts, Mayans, Incas, Olmecs, etc. Poo pooing the accomplishments of others or making it seem as if the other races accomplished nothing. Trying to tell others what their identities & history are and are not. I also do not like it when my own people (Whites) try to do it to others. As far as who went wrong & why & where I couldn't tell you because I don't read Afro-centric literature.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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But DHDoxies if you have never read the literature how can you be hostile to the discipline at large,and don't get me wrong there is a lot of Afro-eccentrism here and else where,but you have to know what is what.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Brada, my objections are when Afro-centrics start claiming the histories & identities of other races. Such as claiming the identities of the Celts, Vikings, Danes, Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Normans, Picts, Mayans, Incas, Olmecs, etc. Poo pooing the accomplishments of others or making it seem as if the other races accomplished nothing. Trying to tell others what their identities & history are and are not. I also do not like it when my own people (Whites) try to do it to others. As far as who went wrong & why & where I couldn't tell you because I don't read Afro-centric literature.
No,dhdoxies. Just no.Watch the video. A Spanish noblewoman,a Countess admits her 12th century was black and that her family revised this info(whitened)and also also families have done so. You may quarrel with the scholarship here but isn't that what several have been saying all along? You really should watch the video for yourself. Only then will you understand no-one is stealing history rather reclaiming it. Ideally if you have any objections take it up with the Countess herself. I think she's better placed than all of us to know the real race of her ancestors -don't you??
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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Egmond Codfried !!! calling people names again what you lonely??.. itching for a fight??.. Jane Austen or Steve Austen was blk European royals had Blue balls Okay now shoo!!.. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Coconut african-americans, Fake Asian and European writers will never define OUR history.
You can trick the novices on this site because they have failed to study J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.
I have taught research for years. I have taught my students that a good hypothesis is self-generating.
The Afrocentric study of ancient history (ASAH) is based on four hypotheses confirmed by 200 years of research.
The paradigms for ASAH predicted four hypotheses that were unknown at the time the "Ancient Model" of history was developed, to guide the development of scientific knowledge for the africalogical study of early history. These propositions based on the "Ancient Model" are:
(1) If Blacks founded civilization in Asia and Africa , they may have influenced civilization in the Americas.
(2) If Blacks founded civilization in West Asia, Africa and Europe, archaeological data will support their earlier presence in these regions of the world.
(3) If Blacks founded the first civilizations, they also invented writing and other elements of social and scientific technology.
(4) If Blacks founded civilization they probably founded civilization throughout Asia and Europe.
Given the two empirical paradigms and four predicted hypothesse related to the "Ancient Model", africalogical ancient history research increase the precision of the application of afrocentric research methods and scope of research in this area .
These hypotheses make Afrocentric researchers falsificationists. The falsificationists seeks to confirm or disconfirm the four ASAH hypotheses.
Euronuts always claim that Afrocentrism lacks a scientific base but they never provide counter evidence falsifying the four ASAH.
Knowledge is cumulative. In other words we build new knowledge on the research of the giants in our field. From your lack of knowledge about DuBois' it is clear you have no recognition of the fact that what you guys are writing about has already been discussed formerly, and your job should be confirming or disconfirming what these giants wrote.
I teach educational philosophy on occasion. In this class I just don't talk about contemporary educators I also talk about the Greek philosophers.
Charlie I have posted the following previously. I hope you will read it this time and begin to recognize that what Mike, Marc and I write about is part of a 200 year tradition of Afro-American scholarship. Learn to respect your own scholars. Don't let white supremacy continue to blind you to the truths of history.
Afrocentrism, is a mature social science that was founded by Afro-Americans almost 200 years ago.
These men and women provided scholarship based on contemporary archaeological and historical research the African/Black origination of civilization throughout the world. These Afro-American scholars, mostly trained at Harvard University (one of the few Universities that admitted Blacks in the 19th Century) provide the scientific basis the global role played by African people in civilizing the world.
Afrocentrism and the africalogical study of ancient Black civilizations was began by Afro-Americans.
Edward Blyden
The foundation of any mature science is its articulation in an authoritive text (Kuhn, 1996, 136). The africalogical textbooks published by Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) provided the vocabulary themes for further afrocentric social science research.
The pedagogy for ancient africalogical research was well established by the end of the 19th century by African American researchers well versed in the classical languages and knowledge of Greek and Latin. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) in the Freedom Journal, were the first African Americans to discuss and explain the "Ancient Model" of history.
These afrocentric social scientists used the classics to prove that the Blacks founded civilization in Egypt, Ethiopia, Babylon and Ninevah. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) made it clear that archaeological research supported the classical, or "Ancient Model" of history.
Edward Blyden (1869) also used classical sources to discuss the ancient history of African people. In his work he not only discussed the evidence for Blacks in West Asia and Egypt, he also discussed the role of Blacks in ancient America (Blyden, 1869, 78).
By 1883, africalogical researchers began to publish book on African American history. G.W. Williams (1883) wrote the first textbook on African American history. In the History of the Negro Race in America, Dr. Williams provided the schema for all future africalogical history text.
Dr. Williams (1883) confirmed the classical traditions for Blacks founding civilization in both Africa (Egypt, Ethiopia) and West Asia. In addition, to confirming the "Ancient Model" of history, Dr. Williams (1883) also mentioned the presence of Blacks in Indo-China and the Malay Peninsula. Dr. Williams was trained at Howard.
A decade later R.L. Perry (1893) also presented evidence to confirm the classical traditions of Blacks founding Egypt, Greece and the Mesopotamian civilization. He also provided empirical evidence for the role of Blacks in Phoenicia, thus increasing the scope of the ASAH paradigms.
Pauline E. Hopkins (1905) added further articulation of the ASAH paradigms of the application of these paradigms in understanding the role of Blacks in West Asia and Africa. Hopkins (1905) provided further confirmation of the role of Blacks in Southeast Asia, and expanded the scope of africalogical research to China (1905).
This review of the 19th century africalogical social scientific research indicate confirmation of the "Ancient Model" for the early history of Blacks. We also see a movement away from self-published africalogical research, and publication of research, and the publication of research articles on afrocentric themes, to the publication of textbooks.
It was in these books that the paradigms associated with the "Ancient Model" and ASAH were confirmed, and given reliability by empirical research. It was these texts which provided the pedagogic vehicles for the perpetuation of the africalogical normal social science.
The afrocentric textbooks of Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) proved the reliability and validity of the ASAH paradigms. The discussion in these text of contemporary scientific research findings proving the existence of ancient civilizations in Egypt, Nubia-Sudan (Kush), Mesopotamia, Palestine and North Africa lent congruency to the classical literature which pointed to the existence of these civilizations and these African origins ( i.e., the children of Ham= Khem =Kush?).
The authors of the africalogical textbooks reported the latest archaeological and anthropological findings. The archaeological findings reported in these textbooks added precision to their analysis of the classical and Old Testament literature. This along with the discovery of artifacts on the ancient sites depicting Black\African people proved that the classical and Old Testament literature, as opposed to the "Aryan Model", objectively identified the Black\African role in ancient history. And finally, these textbooks confirmed that any examination of references in the classical literature to Blacks in Egypt, Kush, Mesopotamia and Greece\Crete exhibited constancy to the evidence recovered from archaeological excavations in the Middle East and the Aegean. They in turn disconfirmed the "Aryan Model", which proved to be a falsification of the authentic history of Blacks in early times.
The creation of africalogical textbooks provided us with a number of facts revealing the nature of the afrocentric ancient history paradigms. They include a discussion of:
1) the artifacts depicting Blacks found at ancient sites
recovered through archaeological excavation;
2) the confirmation of the validity of the classical and Old
Testament references to Blacks as founders of civilization in Africa and Asia;
3) the presence of isolated pockets of Blacks existing outside Africa; and
4) that the contemporary Arab people in modern Egypt are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The early africalogical textbooks also outlined the africalogical themes research should endeavor to study. A result, of the data collected by the africalogical ancient history research pioneers led to the development of three facts by the end of the 19th century, which needed to be solved by the afrocentric paradigms: (1) What is the exact relationship of ancient Egypt, to Blacks in other parts of Africa;
(2) How and when did Blacks settle America, Asia and Europe;
(3) What are the contributions of the Blacks to the rise, and cultural expression ancient Black\African civilizations;
(4) Did Africans settle parts of America in ancient times.
As you can see the structure of Afrocentrism were made long before Boas and the beginning of the 20th Century.In fact , I would not be surprised if Boas learned what he talked about from the early Afrocentric researchers discussed in this post.
As you can see Afro-Americans have be writing about the Global history of ancient Black civilizations for almost 200 years. It was Afro-Americans who first mentioned the African civilizations of West Africa and the Black roots of Egypt. These Afro-Americans made Africa a historical part of the world.
Afro-American scholars not only highlighted African history they also discussed the African/Black civilizations developed by African people outside Africa over a hundred years before Bernal and Boas.
Your history of what you call "negrocentric" or Black Studies is all wrong. It was DuBois who founded Black/Negro Studies, especially Afro-American studies given his work on the slave trade and sociological and historical studies of Afro-Americans. He mentions in the World and Africa about the Jews and other Europeans who were attempting to take over the field. Hansberry There is no one who can deny the fact that Leo Hansberry founded African studies in the U.S., not the Jews.Hansberry was a professor at Howard University.
Moreover, Bernal did not initiate any second wave of "negro/Blackcentric" study for ancient Egyptian civilization. Credit for this social science push is none other than Chiek Diop, who makes it clear that he was influenced by DuBois.
DuBois
These scholars recognized that the people of ancient Greece, Southeast Asia and Indo-China were African people. When giants in study of Afrocentrism discussed Blacks in Asia they were talking about people of African descent. So when you claim that these civilizations should be outside the study area of Afrocentric scholars you don't know what you're talking about.
These researchers used anthropological, archaeological historical and linguistic evidence to support their conclusions. It is only natural that these well founded hypotheses developed by these scholars can be supported by population genetics.
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Winters, C.A. (1984b). Blacks in Ancient America, Colorlines, 3(2), 27-28.
Winters, C.A. (1984c). Africans found first American Civilization , African Monitor, l , pp.16-18.
_________.(1985a). "The Indus Valley Writing and related
Scripts of the 3rd Millennium BC". India Past and
Present, 2(1):13-19.
__________. (1985b). "The Proto-Culture of the Dravidians,
Manding and Sumerians". Tamil Civilization,3(1):1-9.
__________. (1985c). "The Far Eastern Origin of the Tamils",
Journal of Tamil Studies , no.27, pp.65-92.
__________.(1986). The Migration Routes of the Proto-Mande.
The Mankind Quarterly,27 (1), 77-96.
_________.(1986b). Dravidian Settlements in Ancient Polynesia.
India Past and Present, 3 (2), 225-241.
__________. (1988). "Common African and Dravidian Place Name
Elements". South Asian Anthropologist, 9(1):33-36.
__________. (1989a). "Tamil, Sumerian, Manding and the Genetic
Model". International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics,18(1):98-127.
__________. (1989b). "Review of Dr. Asko Parpola's 'The Coming of the Aryans'",International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 18(2):98-127.
__________. (1990). "The Dravido-Harappan Colonization of Central Asia". Central Asiatic Journal, 34(1/2):120-144.
___________. (1991). "The Proto-Sahara". The Dravidian Encyclopaedia, (Trivandrum: International School of Dravidian Linguistics) pp.553-556. Volume l.
----------.(1994). Afrocentrism: A valid frame of reference, Journal of Black Studies, 25 (2), 170-190.
_________.(1994b). The Dravidian and African laguages, International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (1), 34-52.
________.2007. Afrocentrism Myth or Science.www.lulu.com Here
Woodson, C.G. & Wesley, C.H. (1972). The Negro in Our History. Washington, D.C. Associated Publisher.
Get up off your knees and learn from the Afro-American scholars who began the study of Blacks in ancient history.
In conclusion, Afrocentrism is a mature social science. A social science firmly rooted in the scholarship of Afro-American researchers lasting almost 200 years. Researchers like Marc Washington, Mike and I are continuing a tradition of scholarship began 20 decades ago. All we are doing is confirming research by DuBois and others, that has not been disconfirmed over the past 200 years.
Aluta continua.....The struggle continues.....
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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IF anyone here who lives in NYC and has never been to the Author A Schomburg Research Center is committing a crime IMHO I had attended many lectures looked at so many papers there hats off to the Puerto Rican at whose feet Dr Clark said he sat.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Kikuyu, I have watched that video. I take it that like Mike, Marc, Clyde & ilk you believe that all the European ethnicities besides the Slavs, Vandals & Goths were Black then. Of course that woman would know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone.
Brada I don't read Afro-centric literature because it seems to me they all say the exact same thing. I'd like to see one Afro-centric who did not claim that the groups I named were not Black as I have yet to see one.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Brada I don't read Afro-centric literature because it seems to me they all say the exact same thing. I'd like to see one Afro-centric who did not claim that the groups I named were not Black as I have yet to see one.
Then you can never know what's being said, and there are plenty but if you were to asked me Brada do you think the Vikings were Blacks my answer would be no,if you asked me were there any Black Vikings I would say maybe,if you asked were there contacts between Blacks and Vikings my answer would be most definitely yes.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DHDoxies: [QB] Kikuyu, I have watched that video. I take it that like Mike, Marc, Clyde & ilk you believe that all the European ethnicities besides the Slavs, Vandals & Goths were Black then. Of course that woman would know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone. Dhdoxies,there is a reason I'm attempting to engage you and not AngloWTFever or lioness. I doubt you have an agenda or emotional problems and are a decent person who has simply been miseducated as I myself once was.
Do you think its time to at least review previously deeply held beliefs about European history?
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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You are right Kikuyu, I don't have an agenda or any of that. I'm simply defending the history & identities of my people. If we just gave our history & identities to another group we'd be no better than Esau of the Bible despising our heritage. Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: You are right Kikuyu, I don't have an agenda or any of that. I'm simply defending the history & identities of my people. If we just gave our history & identities to another group we'd be no better than Esau of the Bible despising our heritage. Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Listen up. A totally neutral entity,in this case a Spanish noblewoman has just validated what many have been saying on ES or years.She's not an Afrocentric,neither does she have an agenda of any sort. You yourself said she would "know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone." Therefore the question still remains to be answered: Do you think its time to at least review previously deeply held beliefs about European history?Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: You are right Kikuyu, I don't have an agenda or any of that. I'm simply defending the history & identities of my people. If we just gave our history & identities to another group we'd be no better than Esau of the Bible despising our heritage. Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Listen up. A totally neutral entity,in this case a Spanish noblewoman has just validated what many have been saying on ES or years.She's not an Afrocentric,neither does she have an agenda of any sort. You yourself said she would "know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone." Therefore the question still remains to be answered: Do you think its time to at least review previously deeply held beliefs about European history?
kikuyu22 - You are not paying attention.
Note Doxie's quote:
Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Blacks have been so conditioned to accept that very same situation, that they don't understand that others would find it intolerable.
Doxie is not as dumb as you think, she understands that to admit Black rule of Europe and the Americas, also means that she would have to admit that Albinos did that very same thing to Blacks.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: You are right Kikuyu, I don't have an agenda or any of that. I'm simply defending the history & identities of my people. If we just gave our history & identities to another group we'd be no better than Esau of the Bible despising our heritage. Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Listen up. A totally neutral entity,in this case a Spanish noblewoman has just validated what many have been saying on ES or years.She's not an Afrocentric,neither does she have an agenda of any sort. You yourself said she would "know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone." Therefore the question still remains to be answered: Do you think its time to at least review previously deeply held beliefs about European history?
Ok Kikuyu, you'll have to explain what you mean.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: You are right Kikuyu, I don't have an agenda or any of that. I'm simply defending the history & identities of my people. If we just gave our history & identities to another group we'd be no better than Esau of the Bible despising our heritage. Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Listen up. A totally neutral entity,in this case a Spanish noblewoman has just validated what many have been saying on ES or years.She's not an Afrocentric,neither does she have an agenda of any sort. You yourself said she would "know the race of her own ancestors better than anyone." Therefore the question still remains to be answered: Do you think its time to at least review previously deeply held beliefs about European history?
kikuyu22 - You are not paying attention.
Note Doxie's quote:
Leaving our children without an identity, heritage, or homeland. Leaving them walking lost in this world not knowing who they are & where they came from, not knowing their place in this world making them virtual slaves.
Blacks have been so conditioned to accept that very same situation, that they don't understand that others would find it intolerable.
Doxie is not as dumb as you think, she understands that to admit Black rule of Europe and the Americas, also means that she would have to admit that Albinos did that very same thing to Blacks.
Mike, nobody stole your ancestral homeland (Africa) it is still there waiting should you decide to go there, Whites however only have Europe (our ancestral land)which you are trying to steal from us leaving us without a homeland, you have an identity the identity of whatever African tribe you descend from and these days its easy to find out which one or ones, However you are trying to steal White's identities leaving us with nothing, you have a heritage that is that of an African, however you are trying to steal ours from us, again leaving us with nothing. Of course since you HATE WHITE PEOPLE Mikey you wouldn't give a crap. BTW Again Mike stop with the racist epithets.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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