I tried meeting a guy in real life after we met on the net. He sent me a picture in which he seemed tall, slim and good-looking. He turned out to be ugly, fat and one head shorter than me! Given that I'm 5ft4, this is quite a performance. We had a coffee together and a conversation which was not nearly as nice as our virtual ones used to be. Then we parted, not before I asked him for the name and number of the photographer - that guy is a genius
Lori
Lori, would you have met this man if you had known what he actually looked like? You obviously found him interesting enough online to want to meet him. Do you think your apparent disappointment in his appearance had a bearing on how you interacted with him in person?
I have one female friend I have met from an online friendship, who is a real sweetheart but with some real issues, I feel I got to know her very well over the net, but had never seen her. I had formed an image in my mind, based on what she had said about herself. The reality was completely different from the virtual. But she was still the same person I had conversed with for over a year.
posted
lol, trust me Adoula.... real meetings are definitely not always disappointing Posts: 1196 | From: www.spiritofthenile.com | Registered: Jun 2002
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My Goodness I was unable to sign in yesterday & I see I should make it a point to come at least once a day as we have a very active board here! Brvo everyone!!
Monica.... I cant tell you all my secrets now can I? LoL!!! Ok, all kidding aside, I have been friends with my special man for a year and 1/2 & "involved" with him for just under a year.
When I say I am "preparing" I mean that for myself, I feel I should to take this very slowly & learn what I can about the culture of Egypt, try to at least speak enough arabic to be able to get by in a store or market, with cab drivers ect.
My habbi loves me dearly & I know will take excellent care of me but he does still have to go to work! LoL he cant be with me every second of the day & I would like to feel confident enough to say go to his favorite market & purchase things to make his favorite meal. Or suprise him by showing up at his office or meeting him for lunch and being to get there on my own!
Our relationship now is based in reality as we plan to spend the rest of our lives together, how will I make our "Fantasy" become "Reality? well, well.... *blushes* LoL
We are a very loving couple, we do little things for eachother to help the distance feel less. For instance I sent him a watch with a note... I told him when he hears the ticking of the second hand, he should to not think of it as seconds, but as the beating of my heart to him. His reply was, each second that goes by is one second less I have to spend without you! (Awwwwwww @ both of us LoL)
When the "Virtual" Relationship is a springboard for the "Reality" then I can find no fault with it.
As a matter of fact I cannot find fault with the people who like only to have a virtual relationship, as long as they are up front & honest about what they are looking for so that no one gets hurt.
As I said in my previous post, I am for love 100%, I pray that everyone has their eyes & heart open to catch it when God blesses you with true love.
As for the people who stated something about the people being ugly when they met them or not at all like their pic, I am sorry for that. I have never been one to "Judge a book by it's cover" I would far rather meet someone without seeing their face & get to know who that person is from the inside out, the fall for a handsome face.
To me, there are no ugly people, just additudes of people who need someone kind to smile upon them & help them to see their is another way to be. Happiness is not painful! But some say it is infectious!
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Lori, would you have met this man if you had known what he actually looked like? You obviously found him interesting enough online to want to meet him. Do you think your apparent disappointment in his appearance had a bearing on how you interacted with him in person?
I have one female friend I have met from an online friendship, who is a real sweetheart but with some real issues, I feel I got to know her very well over the net, but had never seen her. I had formed an image in my mind, based on what she had said about herself. The reality was completely different from the virtual. But she was still the same person I had conversed with for over a year.
Just curious Lori
Well, Shareen, it depends what you meet the people for. If you have been conversing with someone with romantic intentions, there must be attraction when you meet in person otherwise it won't work. Sorry all those who lecture on the insignifficance of looks, but physical attraction is the most politically and socially incorrect thing in the world and if it doesn't exist, you can't force it or replace it.
Please note that what makes someone ugly to one person makes the same person attractive to another, so looks are really subjective.
As for the preservation of the friendship, the guy lied about other things too, such as his job and other stuff. Would you like to be friends with someone who lied about 90% of the time?
posted
When you want a fantasy, you dream up a prince or princess, all wonderful. No person or relationship can live up to that dream.
When you marry, you acquire a package: some good, some bad, some wonderful, some horrible. As long as the good outweighs the bad, there is little to no horrible, and reciprocity and compromise rule the marriage, that is a good-enough marriage for many people.
Romantic love or lust can last a few weeks or even a few years, but, unfailingly, the bubble will burst and lust or romantic love will begin to wane... Some couples stay in the relationship or marriage, but others leave the relationship and go back into the singles' world in search of chemistry. lovers, and romantic love. Many psychologists call these love junkies or lust junkies.
Some people do become veritable love junkies. They need the excitement of chemistry to feel happy about and intoxicated by life. Once this initial rush of chemicals wanes, the relationship crumbles and they are off again, seeking another chemical high from infatuation.
Many adults go through life in a series of six-month to three or four year relationships. Some do this even if they are married. In fact, if these love junkies stay married, they are quite likely to seek affairs to fuel their chemical highs.
posted
" When someone makes you feel good about being who you are, that is the person you want to be with more and more."
Posts: 247 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jamilah: " When someone makes you feel good about being who you are, that is the person you want to be with more and more."
Bravo Jamilah, This may answer part of Monica question about how much looks is important.
Let's face it. Looks are important to some people. But, what is more important than looks to you? A personality? Money?
I think looks do matter, but they come below attitude and willingness to approach in the scale of importance. I look for what's inside that's what matters most.
I see that women are attracted to certain physical features - height, muscularity, hair, face, eyes, but it makes absolutely no sense to beat oneself up because one lacks these characteristics.
However, it is important to look the best you can, I think the most important part of the looks issue is wearing nice clothes which you feel comfortable in. If you feel in yourself that you look great, than that goes a long way towards instilling the confident attitude that you need.
Physical appearances aren't so important as long as you are comfortable and confident.
As for getting a woman's opinion about my appearance, I have all these physical features - height, muscularity, hair, face, eyes .
But unfortunately it was the Egyptian hot sun which affected me.............lol
posted
Mmm, clever, open-minded, handsome, good looking, etc... but why then you mind of meetings in real life??? confused:
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: As for getting a woman's opinion about my appearance, I have all these physical features - height, muscularity, hair, face, eyes .
posted
Jamilah, Many choose meeting electronically thinking the distance provides a cushioning from the usual pains of a relationship. This is not true. Both have some risk.
To my mind virtual is enough when you don't want any commitments toward someone and it's enough if you're interested in this person and like talks with him and if it's long-distance relationships and that's really great way of communication but if you are in the same city and talk only by Net that's not right because i believe that there is lack of physical emotions which you can get only from such kind of meetings!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Good point Jamilah,
Do U think virual is enough??
Hey Monica, Shareen, msjen, Fanta, Lori, and all, join us. We need your opinion.
posted
Agree, even sometimes i think which one is more risky...
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Jamilah, Many choose meeting electronically thinking the distance provides a cushioning from the usual pains of a relationship. This is not true. Both have some risk.
posted
Hi Adoula, It's great to get some clues about your appearance, I am sure it will increase the candidates for a real meeting
Personally I believe that virtual is not enough and must be carried to real(if possible). I belive pc screen cant replace the romance of watching movie together or a dinner with the candle light. (Is such romance still exist by the way)Maybe the reason why online relations raise can be this, because we lost the hope in real life...
Best wishes,
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Good point Jamilah,
Do U think virual is enough??
Hey Monica, Shareen, msjen, Fanta, Lori, and all, join us. We need your opinion.
posted
Hi Fanta, Thanks for your nice comment about my appearance... And am always having my dinner (alone....lol) every night in the city park at Heliopolis area........lol
The same point, Where is true love in our life?
True love transcends all limitations. It is the reality underlying human life in all its manifestations. Therefore, true love is the key to world peace and harmony.
More than that, true love is the source of joy and happiness.
But where is it? May be this is the reason behind the go to virtual!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by Monica: Adoula, when we meet it will not be disappointing, don't worry... he he he!!!!This is how I look But.. you don't care about looks, do you?
Seriously, that's another point I wanted to discuss: how important are looks, when you are virtual? [This message has been edited by Monica (edited 27 January 2004).]
Well, may be it would be fun..But I must ask msjen first, she tried before....lol
------------------ Regards adoula777@yahoo.com
[This message has been edited by Adoula (edited 28 January 2004).]
You're welcome..Seems we are similar about the dinner places but you are more lucky because parks here are too cold in this season
I think what you say is true.Maybe when we stop hoping for true love in real, we start searching for the virtual love. Because we can use our imagination and fantasies to shape the relation as we always dream.
But my mind is still busy with a question of where is true love? Hope to find the answer
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Hi Fanta, Thanks for your nice comment about my appearance... And am always having my dinner (alone....lol) every night in the city park at Heliopolis area........lol
The same point, Where is true love in our life?
True love transcends all limitations. It is the reality underlying human life in all its manifestations. Therefore, true love is the key to world peace and harmony.
More than that, true love is the source of joy and happiness.
But where is it? May be this is the reason behind the go to virtual!!!!!!!
posted
I'm waiting for my true love and i'm always opened may be this or that one is... nobody knows... but i believe that there is my soulmate walking in the world..........
Posts: 247 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I guess virtual would be enough, UNTIL you feel a sort of 'need' that surpasses the satifaction you are getting from beautiful caring, kind and fabulous 'typed' words, and at that point, you need to take a decision 'to meet or not to meet'...
And I mean clearly MEET in an open area, where there would be an extension to the virtual 'clean romance'.
Then, if the chemistry is equal to the one the virtual generated, another decision would be to meet again and again, until the two feel comfortable enough and sure enough to make a commitment. And by commitment I don't necessarily mean 'let's get married' right away. It could be a 'promise' and then take it from there...bringing us to the real life situations. And, here is where fear creeps in...
As per the appearance, I know for a fact that some so 'handsome'and so 'gorgeous' people etc...are a total blaaah in person, so since we all have certain standards, wether everyone likes this statement or not, we will have to weigth how important is 'appearance' vs 'all the qualities we are looking for'. What do you think?
HisCrazyLove mentionned something within that frame of mind, and I like that! Also I'd like to wish her more beautiful words from her presently virtual, soon-to-be, real love!!!
It's your turn friends, but please answer the question in regards with the virtual 'affairs' that some 'married' people are having, what's the solution for that 'trend' people??? in Egypt and elsewhere of course! My suggestion is:
Spouses should initiate a 'virtual' romance together!!! And the woman (since she is considered the 'evil one' by some) could initiate it by finding out her husband's ICQ or 'other' email or whatever, and start this virtual romance as if she was 'another' woman...what about that? Or that could be interpreted as 'cheating' in disguise, or wearing a mask maybe ? But then she would be in 'competition' only with herself; but that could be so positive because she would learn constructively what are the secrets/fantasies that her husband is hiding and maybe make them happen and ...woow that could be the most romantic journey, fusing virtual/fantasy and reality with the spouse you are committed to!
Input needed from all please
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Good point Jamilah,
Do U think virual is enough??
Hey Monica, Shareen, msjen, Fanta, Lori, and all, join us. We need your opinion.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 16 April 2004).]
posted
heeeey...read the 'Monica' thread, msjen described me, so kindly !!! Where is that girl? I know she has a very tough working schedule and I predict that she will eventually quit her job and let her 'real' friends' go to be back on ES with her 'virtual' ones...I know I know!!! She is that type of a friend, you see
Adoula, it would certainly be fun to meet you in person! OOps I meant it would certainly be great to meet ME in person
AND, I just noticed you are giving away your whereabouts at dinner time 'And am always having my dinner (alone....lol) every night in the city park at Heliopolis area' That's fusing virtual and real, in a way I guess!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Well, maybe it would be fun..But I must ask msjen first, she tried before....lol
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).]
You are certainly right, lies are uglier than ugly! But if you had the opportunity, would you still go virtual again before meeting for real?
Monica
quote:Originally posted by Lori: Well, Shareen, it depends what you meet the people for. If you have been conversing with someone with romantic intentions, there must be attraction when you meet in person otherwise it won't work. Sorry all those who lecture on the insignifficance of looks, but physical attraction is the most politically and socially incorrect thing in the world and if it doesn't exist, you can't force it or replace it.
Please note that what makes someone ugly to one person makes the same person attractive to another, so looks are really subjective.
As for the preservation of the friendship, the guy lied about other things too, such as his job and other stuff. Would you like to be friends with someone who lied about 90% of the time?
Your point of spouses in virtual romance make me remember a story I read a while ago. I am not so sure if it was real or joke but wanted to share with you. There was a married couple who had problems with their marriage.The husband was spending hours in the net and had a friend whom he talks about his problems in marriage and desires in life.His online girl friend was perfect and matches all he was dreaming of. He said he is thinking to get divorce from his wife and want very much to see her. He had a conversation with his wife. He told her that their relation is not working and he found his other half who can understand him very well. His wife didnt say anything and they agreed to get separate. He shared everything with his online friend and they decide to meet in the next day. Guess what?!?! His perfect online friend was his wife
quote:Originally posted by Monica:
Spouses should initiate a 'virtual' romance together!!! And the woman (since she is considered the 'evil one' by some) could initiate it by finding out her husband's ICQ or 'other' email or whatever, and start this virtual romance as if she was 'another' woman...what about that? Or that could be interpreted as 'cheating' in disguise, or wearing a mask maybe ? But then she would be in 'competition' only with herself; but that could be so positive because she would learn constructively what are the secrets/fantasies that her husband is hiding and maybe make them happen and ...woow that could be the most romantic journey, fusing virtual/fantasy and reality with the spouse you are committed to!
Input needed from all please
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).][/B]
posted
Monica, I have also notice that dinner directions of adoula and was searching for a map to find a way to Heliopolis area
Ohhh dont misunderstood I am just trying to find out and want to enlighten all of us about the difference between virtual and real friendship
quote:Originally posted by Monica: AND, I just noticed you are giving away your whereabouts at dinner time 'And am always having my dinner (alone....lol) every night in the city park at Heliopolis area' That's fusing virtual and real, in a way I guess!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).][/B]
You are certainly right, lies are uglier than ugly! But if you had the opportunity, would you still go virtual again before meeting for real?
Monica
Dear Monica,
Like you, I meet people online all the time. Mostly people from the Egypt boards, who are... in Egypt and therefore difficult to meet. I would not mind meeting anyone for real.
I do not need to look for love online therefore no longer flirt online, and I guess here is the big difference.
Many people when they are online they have a bit of a composite personality. A bit of their visible persona, a bit of their secret selves and a bit of the person they want to be but are not.
This last part is the most difficult to deal with when you meet the person for real. And the more impressive they want to be, the more inflated this part is.
Friendship meetings are easier because there's no need to bluff.
posted
Wot an easy decision: the real thing, of course!
for nothing in the world would i exchange a real relationship for some sort of dream/ ficticious relationship. let's face it - that's what it is UNTIL you meet!
benefits of on-line relationship: - romance (if that's what you're after) - secrecy
benefits of real relationship: - companionship, friendship - senses (ohhhh, back to this chemistry subject again...) - real-time responses, no need to type them in or put up with a camera (that can easily hide certain un-niceities) - honesty
ok that's an initial list (brainstorming), sure i could come up with a million more reasons for REAL relationships after giving it a bit of thought!
Monica, didn't we talk about this part-time thing? Now that would be a compromise, right?
posted
Sorry I cant respond as often as you would like me too Adoula! Lol, we dont have net access at work, so I have to wait until the evening when all my chores are done. But... my response... Virtual is enough up to a point. If you are looking for long term then it can never be enough. It is enough when circumstances dictate that you cannot be in a real relationship, but a virtual "romance" needs to be made "real" at some point. Only then will it be enough.
Posts: 1196 | From: www.spiritofthenile.com | Registered: Jun 2002
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Friendship, that is music to my ears! Actually isn't it a great base to start a super romance in general?
quote:Originally posted by Lori: Dear Monica,
Like you, I meet people online all the time. Mostly people from the Egypt boards, who are... in Egypt and therefore difficult to meet. I would not mind meeting anyone for real.
I do not need to look for love online therefore no longer flirt online, and I guess here is the big difference.
Many people when they are online they have a bit of a composite personality. A bit of their visible persona, a bit of their secret selves and a bit of the person they want to be but are not.
This last part is the most difficult to deal with when you meet the person for real. And the more impressive they want to be, the more inflated this part is.
Friendship meetings are easier because there's no need to bluff.
posted
Fanta, I'm telling you, we need to get on the road to Heliopolis -that's where the plane lands by the way - and check out our virtual friend Adoula!
quote:Originally posted by fantachero: Monica, I have also notice that dinner directions of adoula and was searching for a map to find a way to Heliopolis area
Ohhh dont misunderstood I am just trying to find out and want to enlighten all of us about the difference between virtual and real friendship
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).]
[I'm wearing my 'researcher' hat these days and while downloading, and printing I can answer and answer and answer ]
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Oh, and please forgive me if I dont respond to all the replies, I dont have much time, and just pick out what I can answer quickly.
About that part time thing we discussed, I believe it's still the best arrangement, but now shall it be a part time virtual/fantasy or a part time reality?
As long as it's part time I guess, to keep the romance going!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).]
What is true love, and soulmate to you? Just curious and trying to figure what it all means! And wonder, could it be only a fantasy?
quote:Originally posted by Jamilah: I'm waiting for my true love and i'm always opened may be this or that one is... nobody knows... but i believe that there is my soulmate walking in the world..........
On looks... It comes down to what YOU feel is the "right" or "acceptable" look of a person. For me, as I said before it's the heart & soul I look for.
I dont believe there is any one person who can look at themselves in a mirror & be completly happy with what they see until they have made peace with themselves, until the other aspects of their lives are in order. I may not be a beauty queen, so to speak, but my smile warms the soul of my habbi, my eyes sparkle when he makes me laugh, so? whats more we need?
Smiles & laughter are cathcing I believe & whats more wonderful then making someone smile? Whats more magic then hearing someone laugh? It's beautiful music
One more thing about how someone looks I feel I must add here... WHat if you found your perfect looking ma/ woman & something happened? God forbid some accident hurt their face? They no longer "Looked" they way they used to? Then what? Im sorry to speak so harshly, but it's a point that many never consider.
On true love / soulmates... My Grandmother told me a story growing up of a "split-apart" It was also told in a movie once but anyhow here it is...
When God makes a soul it is made 1/2 male & 1/2 female, before comming to earth in the form of a baby it is split in 1/2. Each happiness, each sorrow, each test you go through in your lives prepare you to meet you "split-apart". When you are once again joined as one you cannot be seperated.
I knew I found my true love, my soulmate, my split apart when i had a feeling of "comming home" when I am with him. I feel complete. *Sigh* I am a very lucky woman!
ok ok enough rambleing for now...
Hugs my friends!
HCL
[This message has been edited by HisCrazyLover (edited 28 January 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Monica: Fanta, I'm telling you, we need to get on the road to Heliopolis -that's where the plane lands by the way - and check out our virtual friend Adoula! [This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 January 2004).]
Is msjen will be coming with U too to Heliopolis? So we can all meet with Adoula
------------------ in love with Misr. Aisha
[This message has been edited by aishazahran (edited 29 January 2004).]
posted
sharing, caring, being for each other, uplifting, helping, passion, obsession, deep emotions, nearness, longing for each other, understanding, respect, responsobilities, trust, etc... etc... etc... You think i want too much and it can be only in fantasy?
quote:Originally posted by Monica: Jamilah, cara amica,
What is true love, and soulmate to you? Just curious and trying to figure what it all means! And wonder, could it be only a fantasy?
This is a great post and make me believe that true love exist.I am not hearing good stories these days and I really missed the happy love stories. Your happiness and excite make hope seeds grow in my self once again
quote:Originally posted by Jamilah: Yes, this is true because it hurts a lot when people lie Some people want to be open and open their heart to another but they even can not imagine with what kind of false they will meet face-to-face... Yes, it's all nice and beautiful but i don't understand just one thing why people lie...
I agree that lie hurts a lot but in real life. I'm not sure that people have to tell the truth in virtual relatioship. Virtual love doesn't mean meeting face-to-face. If you want to have a moment for flying in the clouds a little lie won't harm...
posted
Katarina, i was talking about real relationships.
quote:Originally posted by Katarina: I agree that lie hurts a lot but in real life. I'm not sure that people have to tell the truth in virtual relatioship. Virtual love doesn't mean meeting face-to-face. If you want to have a moment for flying in the clouds a little lie won't harm...
Yes, if you already decided for yourself that you are not going to meet with this person you talk to virtualy
posted
Well Monica, u opened up a sensitive issue regarding virtual thoughts to our married folks, i think ( which must not be right but this is what i am thinking) that after marriage , virtual thoughts must be faced with self control although it will creat a case of mal content towards the other partner in life, and heey folks, if u r married after love, how can u ever leave the love of your life and escape into a virtual dream, may be i ma not realistic cuz i am not married yet. but i guesss when i love and marry , my own virtual dream will be with my beloved sweetheart the moment which she is not there. ( silly right?) but this is me.
posted
heeey folks you are wonderful and active, i suddenly found out that my last reply was so late. i am sorry for my late reply monica. do u know folks, it is very amusing sitting and watching your replies, it really gives me hope that life is still as i want , and there are some pl who gives their hearts chances to think, jamilah, i find my self protesting by nature about comaring or frouping love with lust in any phrase, sorry dear, but i guess u r grouping with contradictions, love is so sencere . lust is so low. Adoula: i guess we share a lot of things man , especially dinner alone, but i do it in maadi ,and sometimes instead of being alone, i go to the club for some action ,as dinner alone is so depressing. about your gathering : look folks, like all others in my age ( which is 27 ) i had a lot of on-line friends , which we agre real friends now, thanks god, we are more like brothers and sisters, we even visit at homes now))) so put friendship is ur target now, and belive me, it is a precious one, then who knows , you may find romance in the way waiting for any couple of u. but have patient, u have such a wonderul virtau l friendship here, don't spoil it up, wait for a while till ur firndship really be a part of you , which u can not afford to loose, then go for real , now u will have a strong base, which will face any change in minds god bless u , u really cheers me up))
posted
Ok, BobBoss, let me explain you something, i was talking about this virtual "romantic love" where everibody lies to each other and fable themselves and their life, i'm sorry but to my mind they creat then a dreamy character and want each other to fall in love with it. And you call it love?
quote:Originally posted by BoBBoSS: jamilah, i find my self protesting by nature about comaring or frouping love with lust in any phrase, sorry dear, but i guess u r grouping with contradictions, love is so sencere . lust is so low.
Interesting comment! Would you mind telling us a bit in regards with the virtual lies that make a virtual romance feel good?!
Do you mean lie about who you are, or about how you look, or about what you do in real life, or about the fact that you are committed in real life?
Thanks! Curious Monica
quote:Originally posted by Katarina: I agree that lie hurts a lot but in real life. I'm not sure that people have to tell the truth in virtual relatioship. Virtual love doesn't mean meeting face-to-face. If you want to have a moment for flying in the clouds a little lie won't harm...
Nice to see your post friend, no need to apologize, I have to admit that this thread has been very active and it's really interesting to see how people picture the virtual/fantasy vs the real.
I guess if someone is romantic by nature, it will probably be a romantic journey either way!
When you say 'lust' is so low, you mean it's a cheap thrill to have a relationship just for lust! I agree meya meya. In some cases people think it's better than nothing, but of course when you have high standards it's important not to give them up for 'thrills' right?
Which brings us to self-respect.
If no emotions are involved then we can't call the relationship romantic, but rather plain and simple and only cyber sex - and that is a totally different story. But it makes me think, is that what attracts the 'married' or 'committed' people that in many cases break the heart of a whole family for some cyber sex?
Or is it just a combination of all those very 'impossible' fantasies turned almost 'possible' behind the screen?
Never ending questions indeed!
It's wonderful that you are cheering up when on ES, same here friend!
Talk to you later! Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 29 January 2004).]
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
.
But.. you don't care about looks, do you?
to be back on ES with her 'virtual' ones...I know I know!!! She is that type of a friend, you see 
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