who would ask the love of our life to wear the Hajab being a non-Muslim in Egypt? In the beginning, everything seems strange and different in Egypt in the eyes of foreigners. What my husband did for a very long time in the beginning of our life in Cairo
1) he always tried to translate and explain everything that was said in front of me by his friends and family, so I would not feel anything 'funny' is being said. Once even he critized my mom in law for making a joke about a bad mother-in-law that included a 'bad'face. As I did not understand any Arabic he critized her (in front of the neighbours - kaman), explained and apologized to me.
3) he never left me alone for fear I may feel lonely and get homesick
4) he tried everything to read my lips for anything I might wish for
5) he did never push me or ask me to behave as if I were Egyptian, or Muslim
6) and we talked, talked, talked

I suggest: ask her to come and stay for a while to get to know the people and the country, she'll be conviced fast that Egypt is certainly not a dangerous place to live in! tell us more about her and her nationality, maybe we can come up with some Forums or sites where foreign ladies can meet each other to exchange information and experiences... or even meet her in person.

All the best and keep us updated,

I am married to an Egyptian for just over a year now and living here in Egypt. I love it, there are many things I have had to adjust to but my husband has tried to make it as easy for me as possible. Also the rest of his family have taken me to their hearts and I truly appreciate their love and kindness and anything I have had to give up is worth it for this.

I don't wear hijab, i am not a muslim nor has my husband every asked me to. i do dress respectfully but in Western clothes although I do have some lovely galabeyas I sometimes wear.

So far I have found Egypt like coming home, certain things are bad and hurt but this is true in every country and the good foar out weigh the bad.

If you have the loving support of your husband and his family then your life here will be fantastic and I can't recommend it enough.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vito:
Akshar,
thanx alot for ur words,it means alot to me,,and i hope it means also for her .
i totally agree that any place in the world has the good and bad things,,,
really here the good things is not little and i think its much more than bad things.
I think here ppl atleast live in save,,
freedome here has different meaning than european countries,but when u understand it well it will b enough...
really u helped me alot showing for my girlf how it is not impossible to live in here,mayb also u helped me to show the same for other girls that want to live here or afraid from love with egyption..
i hope really that we all understand the type of people here in Egypt and how we have different minds and thoughts,as there r some bad ppl who lower the image of Egypt as there r good people who can b trusted,
Tell Me Akshar what is ur country? and what things truelly u want here in Egypt but its not existing?i mean what is worth thing here in Egypt?

---

What is there about Egypt that I didn't get in the UK. that is a big question.

In the UK it was all rush and hurry and material possessions. You worked long and hard but for what. You crammed your house full of gadgets and ornaments for what. There was never any time. I had a good job, I was an IT consultant and Chairman of my trade association. I appeared on TV and radio. BUT

when I was here I felt like I came home, the warmth and sincerity of the people, the history and culture, the simple life.

Then moving here and becomming part of Mahmoud's family what joy. I swear to God I have more love from my mother in law than from my real mother. A couple of times I have been ill and everyone dropped what they were doing and rushed round to my home to cook and clean and look after my daughter.

They so appreciate me and care about me.

It is so safe here my daughter can walk down the street in complete saftey something she could never do in London. As she goes down she sees a cousin, an uncle relative after relative. Everyone knows her and says hello. She is so happy here.

I think Egypt has the secret that we in the West have lost, family life is the true happiness not a DVD player. I feel more femimine here, more cared for, more appreciated, more relaxed.

Of course I also love the history so that is a big bonus for me.

First of all it’s an unbelievable thing you are doing now for this forum. I hoped that one day someone positive from Egypt will appear here and show another side of the coin.
I write because you reminded me a man who I met in Egypt and those stories here were one of the hints which destroyed my internal order and I lost my faith in the person I met.
So, it can be sometimes very powerful tool of influencing people’s minds.
Of course his behaviour also caused it.
Anyway, I believe that if 2 people really love, respect each other, they always find a way to communicate. So do you. So do I.
I wish you all the best and I’m sure you will succeed in every field of your life.

All what I know is that we must trust other people. Not be stupid and blind etc. I have a problem with it, but TRUST is a key word.

Words are words but our doings always tell the truth. And you are doing it.

Again, I believe in you and the girl you love.
Meeting a person you love and she loves you is happiness. Creating something good with his/ her is our choice, will, and work. If you want good relationship with one another you must stop for a while and talk to them and create your own picture of the world and relationship . I do believe that people can make miracles. We must remember you are 1 world and she is 1 different world. And now you need to create common world out of those 2 - despite all the differences.

By the way, I’m too busy to be here so often, but that’s right that Monica and all people here are great. Very individual and strong personalities who have both sensitivity and sensibility.
All the best for both of you!
And everybody here!
PS The society we live in, create enormous load of negative thoughts. It influence everybody.That’s why it’s so difficult to change it. It takes time. But here is so much sunshine.

More testimonials of well treated women like those of karin and Akshar are needed to at least IMPROVE, the reputation of our Egyptian men - which is, after all, highly linked to the intelligence of women that befriend them!

It's an insult to the intelligence of an Egyptian woman, when a foreigner questions the decency of her Egyptian/fiancé/ husband.

Thanks for your good words gebo, take care

Monica
Vito: thanks

QUOTE]Originally posted by gebo:
Hello Vito,

First of all it’s an unbelievable thing you are doing now for this forum. I hoped that one day someone positive from Egypt will appear here and show another side of the coin.

By the way, I’m too busy to be here so often, but that’s right that Monica and all people here are great. Very individual and strong personalities who have both sensitivity and sensibility.
All the best for both of you!
And everybody here!
PS The society we live in, create enormous load of negative thoughts. It influence everybody.That’s why it’s so difficult to change it. It takes time. But here is so much sunshine.

[/QUOTE]

This is a Vito’s profile but ... Monica, you attract my attention - too. The most funny thing is that our name has something in common…I know you’ve got much more interest and experience with Egypt in general.

i think Egyptians are sometimes brainwashed by the media into believing what they have here is second best or not good enough and this is so far from the truth.

You have a great country with many years of history and culture. Your warmth and generosity are amazing. You have some of the most amazing scenary the lush Nile valley, the stark deserts, the crystal Red sea. And yet so many yearn for what the West has to offer.

Honestly in my opinion the West has nothing to offer.

Today I went out and my daughter hadn't returned home. I left her a note saying i had gone to a lecture. The entire evening i did not even think about her. I wasn't worried or concerned. She left the house at 3 and I returned at 9:30. When I came home she was outside our flats with my mother and father in law drinking tea and chatting in Arabic. she hadn't even seen the note but knew where I had gone because my father in law said I went with a notebook so she remembered the lecture. The lecture was amazing and so enjoyable. Now where else could i have done that, no where in the West could I have gone out having no idea where my daughter was or leaving her alone in our flat.

My story just happened. Don't feel sory.I just draw the right conclusion and I wrote you about it before.
Nothing hapen without reason.

Of course, I’ve experienced and I still do - many beautiful moments and know some wonderful people. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother about anybody around me and do not write any messages. If people help you, you help them. Perhaps I’m not so “socialized” but the more experience I get the more open and sensitive for people around me I’m.
Wish you the same.
You know I want a man who will be with me for me, for love and have similar values not just a “somebody –husband”. Perhaps I’m also not – standard like in my mind.
Sometimes it takes time. Education is also important for me, but it also cost some efforts.

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 16 March 2004).]

As I am currently living in Alabama - one neighbor of Mississippi - I can't say that they are less educated. Yes there are people with more and less education but you find them anywhere, even in NYC.

I also can not agree with you on the term that people in rural areas more interested in seeing new faces. This is here definitely not the case. People like to stay by themselves, they are not interested where you coming from (and I am coming from Europe) and need a long time to warm up.

Not so in Egypt: People actually coming running towards you and bombarding you with questions and invitations.

By the way: To which other countries have you traveled?

By the way, of course in NYC no one looks at each other and its not because of time, no because its just simply that all Americans are more or less foreigners in their own country. You have all different-looking people in one place. The father or the grandmother came from Europe, Asia, Africa etc. Americans like to forget this sometimes....

I did not mean blacks at all.. But for the sake of people interpreting it differently from what I meant, I deleted it.

I simply commented on the article Vito posted not what it is like in Egypt. As i can tell from other posts, it is not like that and that's why I said I think it is overrated.

Also, as far as NYC not looking at each other... as you can see it was a joke...

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 16 March 2004).]

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 16 March 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

Well I replied to your comments ..... and I am still wondering.....

---

I have not time for haivng people twisting what I did and did not imply.

Katrina, thanks for your reply. But I can see that you sent out comments of racial prejudice. Well you don't need to go into further details here.

Hopefully you don't feel the same about Egyptian people when you are coming to visit them one day .....

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 16 March 2004).]

Well, Katrina, how come if you didn't offend anyone with your post WHY did you delete it then????

First, the intent of is was to help Vito understand what a person who did not grow up in Egyptian culture may view perceptions described in the artcile he attached. Perhaps the one he loves may relate to that and he could understand it better himself. This whole post is to help Vito to grow in his relationship and overcome difficulties growing it and have a happy end, not any other issues. So if smth may lead to such discussion, it defeats the purpose.

Secondly, in general in life, I do not to pick up fights that are not worth fighting. There are millions of other great things to do, different topics to talk about. If I see someone who forms a view, makes a conclusion by taking smth out of the context and its intended purpose, I just do not fight about it.

Moreover, I wanted to help Vito. Vito, you read it. So mission is accomplished right?

But to understand the difficulty between White and Black inside the United States - and in many areas rascism is hidden and they do not prefer even to live in the same neighborhoods - you really have to experience yourself.

But anyway this is a board about Egypt so lets keep it like that.

Have a good day!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vito:
Its accomplished successfully.
I hope that i was not a reason for any fights,anyway i have also no time for fights,i respect tigerlily alot but just i wanted to show the importance of your help to me,and that u didn't mean any if Tiger thinks,,,
So thanx again for your help and thanx for calling me intelligent,
Tigerlily,
why don't just you help and give me your opinion in this? i'll be very glad if i hear your point of view..
Thanks

---

Vito,

You are the sweetest. Do not worry. You did not start any fights. Actually thanks for the article. It was interesting. I learned some Arabic words

I just read your other post. Don't worry. You are so sweet and you are right. Do not try to persuade. But it is very sweet of you, really. We are here to help you if you have any questions. Remember that

We want you to have a happy end love story

Katy

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 18 March 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vito:
Ok now i'll cry from Hapiness

---

WOW, Awesome. What is happening?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vito:

Just i wanna mention that i'm totally understand the look of most of egyptians to other foreiners specially women,,
i believe that we have different cultures than Europ...
Most of egyptian men look 2 foreign woman as they r easy hunt for sex..
i agree that of course also some foreign girls help in this look,,anyway it has many reasons i'll not go into it,,
i am just talking abt if there is bad egyptians so is it law for all egptians to be bad as well,,,
I'm In True Love with some foreigner gurl,,,
i really love her and wish that she could b my wife but the problem is that she discovered that Egypt is very danger place to live in,,i agree with some of this,,but sure not all,
She is really good but she is afraid from ppl look and believes here,,she will not just put Hegab and try to live here,
If anyone Could just show that Egypt its not that bad and that she can live here in safety specially that i am with her,So i'll be greatful,
i don wanna lose a girl that really love because of some silly ppl here in my country..............thank u

---

Well you're one of the silly ppl, if she doesn't want to wear a head scarf, she won't. Don't even try to pursuade her to. Understand what the Quran says about coersion, bullying her to cover her head is coersion.

Remember if these foreign women are giving out sex freely, remember THE MISR MEN ARE GIVING IT OUT FREELY TOO!!! Don't place the blame squarely on the woman, it takes a man and a woman to get it on. Take a look at that woman in Nigeria (Nawal) who had a baby out of wedlock. They are waiting to stone her as soon as her baby is weaned. She says it's her ex-husband's baby. Are they testing the paternity? Is a man going to be stoned as well? NO!!! this is why people don't appreciate Islam and find it degrading to women. Islam is not degrading to women, the pre-Islamic cultures that refuse to properly practice the Shria are the ones to blame. So don't go blaming the western woman, if you won't hold the Arab man accountable as well.

And trying to force her to live in Misr won't work either. I am moving to Misr out of my own will. He doesn't want me to go but I will. The Arab culture is crushing to the western woman. And if you haven't lived in western for at least 5 years and have tried to make American friends while living there you won't ever know how to relate to her.

For her sake and yours, give up, let her go, most of these relationships don't work.

I would know. It's a stiffling prison to married to an Arab (christian or muslim). I am far more used to patriarchial cultures and a loss of personal freedoms than most Western women.

------------------
Amy the Loud Norge-American

quote:

---

Originally posted by katrina:
Vito,

comment about wearing "Hajab". This would be quite a culture shock for a foreign woman in general and for a Russian woman as well. I know quite a few Russian women and Eastern Europeans as well. Many women there are very feminine and they take very good care of their appearance. It is not considered as lack of modesty.They dress smarter than majority of American women.

---

Watch it Katrina!! Where is the moderator here? I have seen alot of skin on my fellow students who are Russian in college. I don't consider their dress exactly smarter. Liz Claiborne, Talbots, and Anne Klein would be a shock factor for their mode of dress. Don't get me wrong many American's dress sloppy. But with amazing amount of expendable income and more American women in the high ranks of Management in American corporatation versus Russian women in Russian corporations, you can't really judge us without sounding childish. Besides I hear many Russian classmates speak of trying to meet a rich man to take care of her and not wanting to build a career. If I American woman said this in college, she would lose friends and men wouldn't speak to her anymore.

quote:

---

I can not speak for Egyptian women as I have never been to Egypt, only saw Cairo, Luxor, Alexandria, and more on TV.

Russians are mostly Orthodox Christians. Out of respect and modesty to God and religion, Russian (or Orthodox Christians in general, copts probably do that, right?) women do cover heads with scarfs when visiting church, unlike people in other Christian denominations. I bet she would agree with that, but wearing the thing in public... Women in general dress smartly not to seduce or whatever, we want to look beautiful for ourselves!

Where do you live and why it is important to you that she would wear this Hajab?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 12 March 2004).]

---

And as an American in Minnesota we dress beautifully for ourselves as well. I grew up in a upscale suburb and have a medical administrator for a mother. At 14 if I left the house to go somewhere in public she'd made sure my clothes matched, pressed, shoes polished, earings and a subtle amount of makeup and lipstick. As well as no hair out of place. No not the debutant look or a OC look, but I did look presentable. Jean and sneakers for occasional school use only.

For a woman or young lady to look appriopriate it enables her to prepare for a successfull life professionally, socially, and progressively.

When I was in Egyt last summer the village women who worked outside of the home in professional jobs looked the best, but always with a head scarf.

Scared me stiff to see so many women in their 50's not dressing to the 9's. Women here in Minnesota dress the best in their life in their 50's. Again expendable income and professional success. I saw nothing but black head dressings down to their knees! Major shock.