[This message has been edited by frienda (edited 30 May 2005).]

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,

I am an American women going to visit my boyfriend in Egypt this August primarily to meet his parents. I met him while I was living in Alex in Feb. studying Fusha and the Quran. (I've lived a very free spirited lifestyle, so one day i decided to live in egypt)He has not pressured me into marriage to obtain US residency. In fact, I've been the one pressuring him, because I don't want to continue a long distance relationship for more than a year. He is a very talented jeweler with so much to offer, that it would be a shame for him to continue working in egypt for 6 days a week 12 days and making chicken scratch for money. he could make much more money living here in the US than he could ever in Egypt(i work for major fashion magazine, so i know). He would like for me to live in Egypt with him,even though he once dreamed of living in america, but gave up on the idea a while back when he felt that there was no hope in him ever achieving this goal. I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public. Anyway, now that I've convinced him to move to America, I will be meeting his parents. What will they ask me or think of me since i'm an American women, a model, and Texan, at that!? I will also be converting to Islam in August so I guess that's one positive thing that his parents will appreciate. Also, why do Egyptian women get so angry when they find out that one of their men is interested in a foreigner? They have all given me this talk about him using me and i proudly answered to them that i would be more than willing to rescue him out of this opressive Egyptian lifestyle.Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,

I am an American women going to visit my boyfriend in Egypt this August primarily to meet his parents. I met him while I was living in Alex in Feb. studying Fusha and the Quran. (I've lived a very free spirited lifestyle, so one day i decided to live in egypt)He has not pressured me into marriage to obtain US residency. In fact, I've been the one pressuring him, because I don't want to continue a long distance relationship for more than a year. He is a very talented jeweler with so much to offer, that it would be a shame for him to continue working in egypt for 6 days a week 12 days and making chicken scratch for money. he could make much more money living here in the US than he could ever in Egypt(i work for major fashion magazine, so i know). He would like for me to live in Egypt with him,even though he once dreamed of living in america, but gave up on the idea a while back when he felt that there was no hope in him ever achieving this goal. I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public. Anyway, now that I've convinced him to move to America, I will be meeting his parents. What will they ask me or think of me since i'm an American women, a model, and Texan, at that!? I will also be converting to Islam in August so I guess that's one positive thing that his parents will appreciate. Also, why do Egyptian women get so angry when they find out that one of their men is interested in a foreigner? They have all given me this talk about him using me and i proudly answered to them that i would be more than willing to rescue him out of this opressive Egyptian lifestyle.Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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Orginally posted by egyptianbeast:

ur the most stuck up girl ive ever heard from
there are a few texans on this board, i think nooralhaq is also from dallas but whoa r u very full of urself. i dont even think u know it. ur triracial, what races r u? also u think his culture is oppressive but he might find urs a little oppressive there too. did u think of this? how did u meet him? how is it u think so much of urself and you want to become muslim? i dont get u what is ur point to this post?

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Originally posted by american gal:
From the sound of your post, it doesn't sound like you should have to convince his parents of anything. You've already told us how beautiful and fashionable you are. Oh, yes, and of course you are rescuing him from his society (how very noble of you). No doubt, if you share this info. with them, they will kneel down in front of you and thank God that you've arrived. Oh, and in case they fail to see how wonderful you are, you should probably tell them their country isn't beautiful and that you, of course, know that because you have traveled the world. That will surely win them over. Why don't you also offer some fashion advice to his mother because, since she's Egyptian, she needs it, right? When I met my fiance's parents (also from Alex), they took to me right away because I was respectful and open and oh, yes, not quite so stuck on myself. And guess what? I didn't have to convert to Islam to win them over. Good luck to your boyfriend, sounds like he needs it, not you...

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american gal, i couldnt have said it better. thank you for standing up for egypt and the egyptians.

best

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Originally posted by american gal:
From the sound of your post, it doesn't sound like you should have to convince his parents of anything. You've already told us how beautiful and fashionable you are. Oh, yes, and of course you are rescuing him from his society (how very noble of you). No doubt, if you share this info. with them, they will kneel down in front of you and thank God that you've arrived. Oh, and in case they fail to see how wonderful you are, you should probably tell them their country isn't beautiful and that you, of course, know that because you have traveled the world. That will surely win them over. Why don't you also offer some fashion advice to his mother because, since she's Egyptian, she needs it, right? When I met my fiance's parents (also from Alex), they took to me right away because I was respectful and open and oh, yes, not quite so stuck on myself. And guess what? I didn't have to convert to Islam to win them over. Good luck to your boyfriend, sounds like he needs it, not you...

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Spot on

I should think any Egyptian reading the original post would be horrified to think of someone like that marrying their son. All the Egyptians I have met are very proud of their country, their culture and their clothes. What an incredibly shallow woman, good luck to her boyfriend he is going to need all the luck he can get.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Stuck up I'm not, realistic I am. You cannot honestly in your heart think of Egypt as being non-oppressive! I lived with the locals and had only Egyptian friends when I lived over there. They, including the women, told me about how there government is continusouly letting them down in many regards especially employment and the forgotten feminist movement. I looked at Egypt when i first arrived through a completly non-biased view and came out with a very different picture in the end. i realised how lucky i am to live in a country where freedom of religion and state are seperate, because this is the only way a democracy is made. you can argue it all you want but this is the truth. call me pro-Bush, I don't care,but this is the ONLY way democracy is ever achieved. my question again, is what his parents will ask me and what they will think of me? i would like to know more about the dowry(the financial worth of the bride) and how to calculate it. i know being an american is already a drawback in their respect toward me. will they ask for pictures of my family, friends, etc.? i just want to make him mom approve of me, and i don't know how to go about it. as he told me, he cannot live with the idea that he married someone that his mom did not approve of. so yes, it's very important that she approve of me. you asked for my race, i am Asian, Black and Hispanic. I have always had an interest in Islam and I decided on a whim to see how an Islamic country functions socially and economically. i met my boyfriend, when i went to shop for a ring at a posh store and i asked for an English speaker. any other questions?

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Okay, you say that you are realistic. Then you need to cut the pro Bush crap, drop the posh store act, and use some common sense! You came here asking for advice. There are many here, that are more than willing to help. But people like you make it very difficult! After reading a post like yours, my first thought is how once AGAIN, I will try and explain, that ALL Americans are not like you!

I have no idea what kind of friends you were hanging out with in Egypt, or what type of women you spoke to, but I can assure you that for the most part, women are quite happy and content with their lives here.

I was appalled at how easily you put down on a country, in which you were not only a guest, but met your future husband in. I was shocked to read that you are a mixture of Asian, Black, and Hispanic. How ironic that these three races, face the most obstacles in America! I won't even go into what the women have to endure! So please, if your concern is for oppressed women, then start by helping them!

Well, in only two messages, you found the way to offend the whole world!!!

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,

I am an American women going to visit my boyfriend in Egypt this August primarily to meet his parents. I met him while I was living in Alex in Feb. studying Fusha and the Quran. (I've lived a very free spirited lifestyle, so one day i decided to live in egypt)He has not pressured me into marriage to obtain US residency. In fact, I've been the one pressuring him, because I don't want to continue a long distance relationship for more than a year. He is a very talented jeweler with so much to offer, that it would be a shame for him to continue working in egypt for 6 days a week 12 days and making chicken scratch for money. he could make much more money living here in the US than he could ever in Egypt(i work for major fashion magazine, so i know). He would like for me to live in Egypt with him,even though he once dreamed of living in america, but gave up on the idea a while back when he felt that there was no hope in him ever achieving this goal. I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public. Anyway, now that I've convinced him to move to America, I will be meeting his parents. What will they ask me or think of me since i'm an American women, a model, and Texan, at that!? I will also be converting to Islam in August so I guess that's one positive thing that his parents will appreciate. Also, why do Egyptian women get so angry when they find out that one of their men is interested in a foreigner? They have all given me this talk about him using me and i proudly answered to them that i would be more than willing to rescue him out of this opressive Egyptian lifestyle.Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,
I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public.

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frienda, how would you feel if i go on an american forum and say that i've been to many beautiful places and america is not one of them??? this is a site about egypt, and there are many egyptians here, what exactly did you gain from hurting the feelings of many egyptians? you could have just said i prefer to settle in the us because i'm happier there. you didnt have to go on about how there are so many beautiful places and egypt is not one of them??!!
further, what is that crap about you not being able to wear fashionable clothes in egypt. i know that many egyptians from the lower classes do not pay much attention to the way they dress. but thats because they are struggling to make ends meet. however if you look at the women in the upper class and upper middle class. you would be surprised at how much attention they give to their clothes and their impeccable sense of fashion. for god's sake my univerity was like a freaking fashion show. so unless your idea of fashionable clothes are hot shorts, you can be as fashionable as you want in egypt.
further, not everybody is happy in america. america is a great country with beautiful things but it also has its vices. the best example of that, is mel gibosn. his fater moved him and his siblings to australia when he was 10 because he was unhappy in the US and was worried about his children.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
frienda, how would you feel if i go on an american forum and say that i've been to many beautiful places and america is not one of them??? this is a site about egypt, and there are many egyptians here, what exactly did you gain from hurting the feelings of many egyptians? you could have just said i prefer to settle in the us because i'm happier there. you didnt have to go on about how there are so many beautiful places and egypt is not one of them??!!
further, what is that crap about you not being able to wear fashionable clothes in egypt. i know that many egyptians from the lower classes do not pay much attention to the way they dress. but thats because they are struggling to make ends meet. however if you look at the women in the upper class and upper middle class. you would be surprised at how much attention they give to their clothes and their impeccable sense of fashion. for god's sake my univerity was like a freaking fashion show. so unless your idea of fashionable clothes are hot shorts, you can be as fashionable as you want in egypt.
further, not everybody is happy in america. america is a great country with beautiful things but it also has its vices. the best example of that, is mel gibosn. his fater moved him and his siblings to australia when he was 10 because he was unhappy in the US and was worried about his children.

ps: i've also been blessed to go to many places in europe as well as australia, and singapore, and i still think egypt is a beautiful country.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
frienda, how would you feel if i go on an american forum and say that i've been to many beautiful places and america is not one of them??? this is a site about egypt, and there are many egyptians here, what exactly did you gain from hurting the feelings of many egyptians? you could have just said i prefer to settle in the us because i'm happier there. you didnt have to go on about how there are so many beautiful places and egypt is not one of them??!!
further, what is that crap about you not being able to wear fashionable clothes in egypt. i know that many egyptians from the lower classes do not pay much attention to the way they dress. but thats because they are struggling to make ends meet. however if you look at the women in the upper class and upper middle class. you would be surprised at how much attention they give to their clothes and their impeccable sense of fashion. for god's sake my univerity was like a freaking fashion show. so unless your idea of fashionable clothes are hot shorts, you can be as fashionable as you want in egypt.
further, not everybody is happy in america. america is a great country with beautiful things but it also has its vices. the best example of that, is mel gibosn. his fater moved him and his siblings to australia when he was 10 because he was unhappy in the US and was worried about his children.

ps: i've also been blessed to go to many places in europe as well as australia, and singapore, and i still think egypt is a beautiful country.

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Originally posted by frienda:
I did'nt mean externally. Externally Egypt is a beautiful country with clean beaches, beautiful architecture and nice weather. However, I made this comment in regards to the abundant social and economical problrems this country has. The unemployment rate is around 35-40%. The majority of people who do work, still have a difficult time making ends meet because of inflation and rising housing costs. My boyfriend makes 2500LE per month (which he said is good in egypt standards) and he still cannot afford a new vehicule, an apartment and pay for costs for a proper marriage. He can have one of the other but not all three. I spoke to several University graduates, one who graduated with a Law degree and he is making 400LE per month working at an internet cafe (because he can't find a job in his field). Unfortunatley, I don't see these economic problems subsiding. I fear that the economy will get even worse and thus create an even greater divide between rich and poor. If you are rich in Egypt, yes, your life will be very Westernized and well traveled but for the rest of the population (90%) they live in poverty and without any hope that there government will help them out in any way. The social class divide is so immense that no you cannot move to a different class level like you can in a Western country. Do you not think these are problems? You have to be fooling yourself if you don't find any fault in this. I'm assuming that you are from the Upper Class. You are very lucky and fortunate because 90% of your people still can't eat three meals a day. As for the fashion comment, no you cannot wear what you want in Egypt. More than ever, women are starting to fully veil themselves in order to avoid harrassment from the men. The Quran states for the believers to lower their gaze but somehow men tend to disregard this phrase and feel that it's okay to harrass a women verbally and physically. Its very double standard. I know at night my Islamic studies teacher warned me to fully veil myself in order to avoid being attacked. The only real way I could walk alone free of harrassment in Egypt was if I wore a khimar during daytime and a khimar with a niqab at night. This is not equality no matter how you phrase it. I agree America and the West does have problems, but we open to independent thought and dress.

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i know that these problems do exist egypt, and i never argued that they dont. what bothered me was the way you expressed it. and by the way yes you can be fashionable in egypt. and a waoman can be veiled and fashionable, i know many women who are veield and dress very nicely. also sexual harrasment has nothing to do with the way you dress. i've known girls who are covered from head to toes and are harrased in the streets. weve discussed that in another thread you can check it out.
besides there are many many double standards in the US too.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,

I am an American women going to visit my boyfriend in Egypt this August primarily to meet his parents. I met him while I was living in Alex in Feb. studying Fusha and the Quran. (I've lived a very free spirited lifestyle, so one day i decided to live in egypt)He has not pressured me into marriage to obtain US residency. In fact, I've been the one pressuring him, because I don't want to continue a long distance relationship for more than a year. He is a very talented jeweler with so much to offer, that it would be a shame for him to continue working in egypt for 6 days a week 12 days and making chicken scratch for money. he could make much more money living here in the US than he could ever in Egypt(i work for major fashion magazine, so i know). He would like for me to live in Egypt with him,even though he once dreamed of living in america, but gave up on the idea a while back when he felt that there was no hope in him ever achieving this goal. I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public. Anyway, now that I've convinced him to move to America, I will be meeting his parents. What will they ask me or think of me since i'm an American women, a model, and Texan, at that!? I will also be converting to Islam in August so I guess that's one positive thing that his parents will appreciate. Also, why do Egyptian women get so angry when they find out that one of their men is interested in a foreigner? They have all given me this talk about him using me and i proudly answered to them that i would be more than willing to rescue him out of this opressive Egyptian lifestyle.Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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WOW
I'm an African American Muslimah in the states longing for the day that hubby and i live in Egypt to escape the likes of the OP.
Materialism and snobbery does not equal piece of mind.

Is it Animosity African American women really feel or just PITY??????

I would never think to insult my hubby and his culture by making such narrow minded comments about the clothing, customs or economics of his country.

Yeh so the jobs don't pay what you think he is worth. But how much money do you really need if you live a life debt free, interest free and your parents had the forsight to build a flat for you and your spouse to be so you could live communally, avoiding expensive child care cost and actually spending time doing what Allah wants you to do??? Worship and pray 5 times per day, make the Hajj, live piously. Participate in Ramadan Give the Zakat, make dahwah etc.. etc...
Fashion magazines, near nude models, texas politics and bling bling don't play into this.

I hope you are not choosing Islam on a whim too.

A hoochie in Hijaby is all Egypt needs.
EEEEK!!!

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Originally posted by frienda:
Hello everyone,

I am an American women going to visit my boyfriend in Egypt this August primarily to meet his parents. I met him while I was living in Alex in Feb. studying Fusha and the Quran. (I've lived a very free spirited lifestyle, so one day i decided to live in egypt)He has not pressured me into marriage to obtain US residency. In fact, I've been the one pressuring him, because I don't want to continue a long distance relationship for more than a year. He is a very talented jeweler with so much to offer, that it would be a shame for him to continue working in egypt for 6 days a week 12 days and making chicken scratch for money. he could make much more money living here in the US than he could ever in Egypt(i work for major fashion magazine, so i know). He would like for me to live in Egypt with him,even though he once dreamed of living in america, but gave up on the idea a while back when he felt that there was no hope in him ever achieving this goal. I told him that I could never make Egypt my permanent home. I've been very blessed to have lived and worked in some of the most beautiful places in the world, and sorry is Egypt is not one of them. Plus, all my friends nor i could not fathom the idea of me not wearing fashionable clothing in public. Anyway, now that I've convinced him to move to America, I will be meeting his parents. What will they ask me or think of me since i'm an American women, a model, and Texan, at that!? I will also be converting to Islam in August so I guess that's one positive thing that his parents will appreciate. Also, why do Egyptian women get so angry when they find out that one of their men is interested in a foreigner? They have all given me this talk about him using me and i proudly answered to them that i would be more than willing to rescue him out of this opressive Egyptian lifestyle.Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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I think I am going to have to agree with most others in this board. I am also from Dallas, and marrying a Egyptian man at the end of this year (I will, however, be living in Egypt). Pardon me, it is just my opinion, but it does seem as if you lack a little bit of a realistic outlook on this entire situation.

I respect the fact that you want to convert to Islam, and commend you for the great obstacle you have yet to overcome. It is quite a struggle, just wearing Hijab in Dallas is a Jihad, believe me. I would, however; caution you against making such a leap of faiths for reasons only to please your fieancee and appease your mother in law. You should do it for personal reasons first and if you do it for anybody else, you will never stick to it. It is a life changing decision and should not be entered into lightly.

As far as the fashionable aspect of things in Egypt, what things your mother in law might want from you. Look, it doesn't matter. Dallas, as you know, is the height of shopping and restaurants and fine things, especially within the South. Honestly, just between you and me, these things don't matter. If we focus on them they make us shallow and people will begin to wonder WHO we really are (you will begin to question this one day too, espeically as a Muslimah). Do you plan to cover? Do you plan to pray 5 times a day? Do you plan to make Hajj one day? Do you plan to make Zakat? If these are your plans in the future then the things you mentioned about the physical aspect of your concerns are nothing more than superficial. Don't confuse yourself with how you look and who you are. Your husband will want you to be a good person, and BELIEVE ME, you will want nothing less from him (inshallah he is).

With regards to your mother in law, just be yourself. If you are good, she will see it. However, if you are superficial and see the physical as opposed to the persons soul (espeically your own) she will know. Women are women and mothers in law are not stupid dependant upon their nationality. She loves her son, with all her heart. He is her pride and joy and she will want nothing less for them than what he deserves. Is he worth it ? Then be that person. Make him happy, show his mother you will love and care for her son, perhaps never as good as she might want or be able to do, but insofar as a wife can.

I know of a couple of jewelers within Dallas from overseas, and they do well. If you do decide to bring him there, please implant him quickly and yourself with the Richardson Masjid so he can be near a large Muslim Community. He will need to be around others like himself. He will have a large culture shock, after all, this is not the midwest. He will deal with ugly things here, and it will be an easier transition for him to be around Muslims who know and understand him. Believe me, you will only be able to do so much.

In the end, be prepared that he will miss his family tremendeously. Your marriage life with him in Dallas will not what you pictured growing up. He will not go to clubs with you, he will not attend the movies every weekend, going to large functions often where women walk around half clothed might not please him if he is a good Muslim.

Over time, as he gets used to America and Dallas, in general, where we have high crime rates and child abudction and molestations daily, he will begin to be vocal. Over time he will not see America as you see it, this bright shining beacon on the hill, he will begin to realize everything has a price and perhaps where he came from and his culture and his own people are better suited for him.

Then again, he might adjust very nicely and never have problems, you two might live happily ever after and you stop wearing makeup, doing your hair and covering yourself from head to toe everyday even in the blistering hot Dallas heat of sometimes 110-115 degrres. It's not a joke my friend and it is a lifestyle change. Everything will be, both for you and for him.

My suggestion, go slowly. Know him at least a year and a half, talk to him everyday, find out about his heart, how he thinks and let him see the REAL you. If you bring him here and things don't work out, it might be devestating for him. Also, do you realize how difficult it is go get a young Muslim man a visa even for marriage anymore in USA? It's not like a trip to the fair, easy and simple. Dallas has one of the toughest immigration offices in the country and you are looking at YEARS of HOMELAND SECURITY problems and red tape if he is able to come.

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Originally posted by Nooralhaq2005:
I think I am going to have to agree with most others in this board. I am also from Dallas, and marrying a Egyptian man at the end of this year (I will, however, be living in Egypt). Pardon me, it is just my opinion, but it does seem as if you lack a little bit of a realistic outlook on this entire situation.

I respect the fact that you want to convert to Islam, and commend you for the great obstacle you have yet to overcome. It is quite a struggle, just wearing Hijab in Dallas is a Jihad, believe me. I would, however; caution you against making such a leap of faiths for reasons only to please your fieancee and appease your mother in law. You should do it for personal reasons first and if you do it for anybody else, you will never stick to it. It is a life changing decision and should not be entered into lightly.

As far as the fashionable aspect of things in Egypt, what things your mother in law might want from you. Look, it doesn't matter. Dallas, as you know, is the height of shopping and restaurants and fine things, especially within the South. Honestly, just between you and me, these things don't matter. If we focus on them they make us shallow and people will begin to wonder WHO we really are (you will begin to question this one day too, espeically as a Muslimah). Do you plan to cover? Do you plan to pray 5 times a day? Do you plan to make Hajj one day? Do you plan to make Zakat? If these are your plans in the future then the things you mentioned about the physical aspect of your concerns are nothing more than superficial. Don't confuse yourself with how you look and who you are. Your husband will want you to be a good person, and BELIEVE ME, you will want nothing less from him (inshallah he is).

With regards to your mother in law, just be yourself. If you are good, she will see it. However, if you are superficial and see the physical as opposed to the persons soul (espeically your own) she will know. Women are women and mothers in law are not stupid dependant upon their nationality. She loves her son, with all her heart. He is her pride and joy and she will want nothing less for them than what he deserves. Is he worth it ? Then be that person. Make him happy, show his mother you will love and care for her son, perhaps never as good as she might want or be able to do, but insofar as a wife can.

I know of a couple of jewelers within Dallas from overseas, and they do well. If you do decide to bring him there, please implant him quickly and yourself with the Richardson Masjid so he can be near a large Muslim Community. He will need to be around others like himself. He will have a large culture shock, after all, this is not the midwest. He will deal with ugly things here, and it will be an easier transition for him to be around Muslims who know and understand him. Believe me, you will only be able to do so much.

In the end, be prepared that he will miss his family tremendeously. Your marriage life with him in Dallas will not what you pictured growing up. He will not go to clubs with you, he will not attend the movies every weekend, going to large functions often where women walk around half clothed might not please him if he is a good Muslim.

Over time, as he gets used to America and Dallas, in general, where we have high crime rates and child abudction and molestations daily, he will begin to be vocal. Over time he will not see America as you see it, this bright shining beacon on the hill, he will begin to realize everything has a price and perhaps where he came from and his culture and his own people are better suited for him.

Then again, he might adjust very nicely and never have problems, you two might live happily ever after and you stop wearing makeup, doing your hair and covering yourself from head to toe everyday even in the blistering hot Dallas heat of sometimes 110-115 degrres. It's not a joke my friend and it is a lifestyle change. Everything will be, both for you and for him.

My suggestion, go slowly. Know him at least a year and a half, talk to him everyday, find out about his heart, how he thinks and let him see the REAL you. If you bring him here and things don't work out, it might be devestating for him. Also, do you realize how difficult it is go get a young Muslim man a visa even for marriage anymore in USA? It's not like a trip to the fair, easy and simple. Dallas has one of the toughest immigration offices in the country and you are looking at YEARS of HOMELAND SECURITY problems and red tape if he is able to come.

Naturally, all of these are my own opinions having been born and grown up in the same place you have. If you do decide to change your life for the better, become a Muslimah, do it honestly within your heart. You will never be happier, believe me. One day you will look around at your neighborhood, and the women, and see things you never saw before. Prepare yourself for the blinders to come off and for lots of hard work both within your religion and within your culturally diverse marriage. I wish you the best of luck.
Take care.
(p.s. this is Nooralhaq, I lost my password, had to open a new user name, Salaam to all)

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ISLAM is a Lifestyle in order to be true to yourself and the faith you will don a new identity and possible even a new name too.

Submission has a funny way of minimizing the creation and exhalting the Creator.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Thank you for your information. Many of my American friends have warned me that there is a huge possibility that he might find that America is not suited for him. One of the things my friends have emphasized that he will not appreciate is the fact that women are so liberated and powerful here whereas in Egypt they are still second class in terms of employment and living independently, also he will not like the whole gay scene that is prevalent here. The majority of my friends are gay males and they feel that this will be a huge problem. They don't and including some of my family members want me to continue this relationship because they think that I am dating "down". I personally don't feel that he'll have a difficult time adjusting here. However, I do want him to take a tourist visa so he can come visit me in the fall. This way, he could see this country first before making the committment of leaving his life in Egypt. My boyfriend is very Westernized and none of his female family members practice hijab. That is to not say that he is not a good Muslim but he is not a practicing Muslim. He drinks alcohol, smokes hashish, has'nt stepped foot in a mosque in years, he can't recall the last time he prayed 5 times a day, was in a sexual and emotional relationship with a divorced woman with a child for 3 years and took me to dance clubs and theaters quite frequently . He is very image oriented and is very blunt about his woman having to match his standards (when we were out in public in Alex it was mandatory that I wear full makeup). In other words, he's a Dallas Metrosexual! I will look into the Richardson Masjid as well as Al-Amir and the other young Muslim hangouts as soon as I find out what his mother will think of me when I see her in August.
As far as studying Islam, this desire has been ongoing since the time i lived in London (2001) and met many Muslims (mostly French Algerians) and they were very kind to me. I've had a very wild, beautiful, confusing, painful and full of wonders lifestyle (i'm 25) that most women would die to have, yet I've still never felt fulfilled. Going to Egypt and observing the good parts of Islamic behavoir brought much needed clarity and pursued me more into converting. However, I still don't think it was enough for me to want to live in Egypt. Will I practice hijab and wear head to toe covering here in America? No i will not. One is because of my job(i work for a fashion magazine) and two i would be losing a part of my personal identity if I did that. I need a certain amount of materialistic goods to feel satisfied, simple as that. Also, one thing that i have learned from dating numerous men is that your partner should appreciate who you are and not try to change your core personality. Again, thank you for your help. Since you live in Dallas, we should meet up. Tell me more about how you met your fiance and all the tribulations of that(the visa process, his family, etc.). Thanks.

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Frienda,

Well after reading your reply I think I see things with you much clearer.

I slightly understand the type of lifestyle you prefer and I am familiar with the things you mentioned in a cultural way. The gay scene here in Dallas is downtrodden with many things I don't agree with. However, my agreement with those things is not of concern to you.

I wonder, if his family is not 'practicing' Muslims and he does not, why is it necessary for you to fake being Muslim? I say 'fake being Muslim' because that is what you will be doing. Will you say, 'I converted to Islam but did the same things I did before I was Muslim?'. Also, being Muslim is an act, there are too many who claim to be Muslim that don't live that way. Same with Christians, same with any religion.

You are young now but we must look ahead, 10, 20, 30 years ahead and think about how much we will change, our tastes, our preferances, our principals and lifestyles. Do you really think marrying an Egyptian man who claims to be Muslim but drinks, smokes hash, sleeps with questionable women and prefers you to wear FULL makeup when you are out together to look the part will still be your desire in 20 years? What happens when you don't look the part anymore? What happens when you have children with this man?

What happens if he delves deeper (and more faithfully) into his religion as he ages? I think a deeper issue also is the fact that many men overseas will marry a woman for a visa specifically and believe me this happens OFTEN. Would you not want someone who is honest with his Allah and good to begin with? The stakes seem somehow against you my friend and if I were you and looking into the future, I would be very nervous.

It seems to me you are involved in a lifestyle that celebrates many bad things, drugs, alcohol, acts against God. I just fear you care more about what his mother 'thinks' of you (not what you really are) and less about what God thinks of you. How can that be?

Also, on that subject, I'm curious why you two want to marry each other? I'm guessing he is handsome, you are pretty. Ok, we have the mutual attraction thing down. Good. But what qualities do you see in a man who likes to show you to other men like meat? What qualities do you see in a man who gets drunk and does drugs? If your family should think anything, they should think this is marrying 'down'. The same for his family. Please don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to disrespect you at all, and forgive me if I did please. It just seems so strange to me the entire thing.

I thought I might be able to help you since we are from the same place. But I must admit, like any place else, we are so different. I am looking through the glass at your situation in a religious way and you seem to be looking out of the glass in a much different way. Perhaps as LIFEAGIFT said earlier you are two peas in a pod. Perhaps you are a lot alike and you will both mature and find enlightenment together. That is an optimistic way of looking at. However, I must admit the more realistic way to look at it is simply that this is a relationship (marriage) of convenience and fun and seems to be being taken as a joke, not something serious. There are some things in this life we don't spit on, some things in this life we don't take lightly and marriage is definitely one of those things. We don't spit on marrige. And entering into it for the ability to have and go to clubs and hang out with gay men and get drunk and do drugs and be as far from God as you can just seems like spitting on the institution. I know you must think I am very short sighted, and perhaps I am, but I cannot end without saying this:
if you love this man, the best thing you could do for him is to bring him back to his religion. Perhaps his family doesn't practice the way they should, but that isn't a reason to pull him further from the way he was raised to think is normal. If you really loved him, you might encourage him to it more seriously and be honest with himself and God. He would (in the end) find a new love for you not found in any clubs, under any makeup, in any drink or with any other woman.

I appreciate your offer to get together to chat, but to be honest with you and myself, I just don't think that would be possible. We are such different people and you would not like what I had to say and most likely I would not like what you have to say. I think you probably have a very good heart and I hope your plans to enter into marriage with this man will be successful. Honestly, with all my heart I hope the best for you both and I also hope you think at least a little about what I have told you openly here today.
Take care.

Instead of looking at his annual salary, or the brand of clothes people wear on the streets- you need to look at the goodness in their hearts and as an American learn from that. We Americans are so distanced from our families and what morality and values are and often only look at labels and money. Its a shame that you have fallen into this.

If you are truly converting to Islam than you need to take a long look at the person inside you. I am not doing this- I am Catholic and my future husband respects that as I respect his belief in Islam. I think taking him away from his home just because of your idea of an annual salary or what clothes are worn on the street is only going to lead to a miserable life for both of you.

I am very open minded,opinionated,humorous, outgoing,accepting of the human oddities that abound in Western life, strangely ambitious and a complete free spirit who engages in a laissez faire lifestyle. All of the above mentioned, do not coincide with Islam. So, see my core personality would have to change and this would be very demeaning for my soul. As my mom said "why purchase clothing from Wal-Mart when you can afford Neiman Marcus and Harrods?" In other words, she feels that I would be downgrading myself and my soul if I lived in Egypt.

I would like to know how many of the women who are from Western countries, have actually lived in Egypt on their own as an unescorted single female? When I moved there, I did not have a place to live, nor could I speak any Arabic. The only thing I had going for me was my smile and a positive attitude. This got me through. I would just like to mention to those American girls moving over there, that Egypt is completely different to live than to visit. On a visit, you are only able to see the beauty of it, but not the social oppressions that lie underneath. Please realize that freedom (in terms of speech, dress and behaviour) will be a past tense in your vocabulary. If you are a happy go lucky who smiles at everyone and thinks life is simply perfect like I do, please beware. You will soon lose that smile and replace it with a frown. Anyone female looking happy on her own will cause many disruptions. Please read "Culture Shock, Egypt" (written by a Dallasite female who does business in Egypt) for preparation of how you will have to behave. Have you walked the streets alone unescorted in Egypt? This is very scary, and my features are not Caucasian.

Also, how did you all meet these men and is he able to afford a lifestyle that is similar to yours here in the West?

Also on the topic of inequality, racism there is very prevalent not only for those that are non-Islamic, but to those who are not full Arab . Just ask anyone from the huge African community in Cairo they will tell you that Egyptians are racist.Egypt might be located in the African continent, but they want NOTHING to do with Africa nor it's people. Sorry, but this is true.

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
Frienda, I think you should stick with a man of your own. Why having an Egyptian man as a husband if you don't want to truly understand his religion and cultural background? Go and look for someone who might not put so much restrictions on your current lifestyle in the future. Grant it problems are already there and they will not go away once you are married. Even if you talk together about many things and want to find the way in the middle - the reality will look different.

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I must say a few positive things about you.

For one you didn't move there to join a man you met on the internet. Nor did you join a young man half your age in Egypt.

And one not so positive, yet not an entire negative either.

You are forgetting here that Egypt is a very impoverished country right now. And you are from an affluent class in America. You are used to having people respond to your privilage and making sure you don't met any detracting events that America has to offer.

I grew up affluent and then spent most of my twenties very poor. People treat you differently when you leave a comfort zone and people in Egypt wont cater to you like people will in Dallas. For that you are forgiven. By me at least.

Finally you already had a impression of what it would be like to live in Egypt. You read that book "culture clash" which I had read 2 years after marrying my husband and 1 year after taking a trip to Egypt.

I never experienced anything you noted above. Yet I was being ushered around by my Father in law a very respected man in Egypt. So I don't recieve any of the incidous flirtations and ugly sexual harrassment. I managed to snag a good socail status instantly by having the in-laws I have.

Mind you that as a affluent foreigner in Egypt that sees herself as a Southern Belle, what you experienced is entirely easily forseeable. You must choose whether you want to turn your impression as a learning point or a barrier. And the socail class, education and reputation of your future in laws will dictate how you are treated in Egypt far more than your attitude.

quote:

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Originally posted by frienda:

I am very open minded,opinionated,humorous, outgoing,accepting of the human oddities that abound in Western life, strangely ambitious and a complete free spirit who engages in a laissez faire lifestyle. All of the above mentioned, do not coincide with Islam.

what exactly does not coincide with islam? being humorous, and ambitous? Islam my dear encourages people to reach the highest level of knoweledge and status they can reach in their life. and where in islam does it say you cant be humours? girl where do you get that stuff from? really if
]his is your understanding of islam,then do not convert, because what you said is a very superficial look on what islam is really about

I would like to know how many of the women who are from Western countries, have actually lived in Egypt on their own as an unescorted single female? When I moved there, I did not have a place to live, nor could I speak any Arabic. The only thing I had going for me was my smile and a positive attitude. This got me through. I would just like to mention to those American girls moving over there, that Egypt is completely different to live than to visit. On a visit, you are only able to see the beauty of it, but not the social oppressions that lie underneath. Please realize that freedom (in terms of speech, dress and behaviour) will be a past tense in your vocabulary. If you are a happy go lucky who smiles at everyone and thinks life is simply perfect like I do, please beware. You will soon lose that smile and replace it with a frown. Anyone female looking happy on her own will cause many disruptions. Please read "Culture Shock, Egypt" (written by a Dallasite female who does business in Egypt) for preparation of how you will have to behave. Have you walked the streets alone unescorted in Egypt? This is very scary, and my features are not Caucasian.

again a load of bull. women in egypt are not confined in their homes they go about as any man. and if its for sexual harrasment, yeah that is a problem, but as i said before it has nothing to do with the way a woman dresses. and at least an egyptian woman can walk around without being mugged or raped like in the US (there' a rape in the US every 2 minutes)

Also on the topic of inequality, racism there is very prevalent not only for those that are non-Islamic, but to those who are not full Arab . Just ask anyone from the huge African community in Cairo they will tell you that Egyptians are racist.Egypt might be located in the African continent, but they want NOTHING to do with Africa nor it's people. Sorry, but this is true.

we egyptians do not want to be african, because we dont feel that we are. we feel that we are more arab, our language, traditions etc. not becuase we dont want to do anything with them.

look frienda, you dont like egypt? fine i cannot force you to like it. you dont want to live with your future husband here? great i hope you have the best life in the US inshallah. but please please put in consideration that there are Egtypains on the forum who get very insulted from the way you speak
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Men jacking off at pictures of women in Victorias Secret.
Girls fondled in elementry school by their peers and teachers.
Schizophrenic messages regarding the right to life.
Spending $3000/ pupil in school yet $35k on prisoners each year.
Being th most progressive country in the world with rural southern communites that have literacy rates of a third world nation.
Homelessness in the wealthiest nation.
Millions without access to healthcare in the wealthiest nation.
Black men still being lynched in TEXAS.
Questionable chads and missing absentee ballots.

I luv America but err huh, alll that glitters isn't GOLD!!!!

Egypt as a government i am sure everybody knows about that. But when you come to a country its not the government wich should get your attention. Go deeper in. walk the streets, talk to the people, observe their life.
I love egypt and not for their government but for itself.
When you walk near the bridge qasr il nil and you see people walking , families together. And you hear the arabic music in the background (all from modern music like amr diab to om koulthoum) and of course the famous potato seller on the bridge, all of that gives you life. In the summer at 3 oclock in the morning you will see people walking in the streets and having fun (without necesserly be affected by alcohol). There so much life there.
I agree with you theres a lot of people that are poor in egypt, but still they are so positive and they try to have fun with the little they have. I have never seen so strong women as the egyptians. they are educated and they would never let anyone push them down. I wish i had some of the strength that they have.
You say they harass you, mmmmm, I am not wearing this burka thing you talked about and I never get harassed..I got harassed more in Norway than in egypt. Of course they will say something to you..THAT IS EVERYWHERE. If you go to italy they do the same, if you go to spain or greece or turkey or syria and etc. This is everywhere. But i think you are exagerating a bit. I was out till 12 oclock at night with my friend without anyone bothering us. If you show them that you dont care they will not bother you more than to say some few silly words.
And as for the fashion, I have never seen more fashionable muslim women than in egypt! Thats why i wanted to start designing clothes there, cause they are well aware of fashion. A woman in the age of 50 or 60 is more fashionable than me! And i mean fashionable in the islamic way, that she still weares hijab and still cover herself in a good way but still very VERY fashionable. Go see the emirates, they are very eurpeanized. BUT DO THEY KNOW FASHION! NOPE! they wear long abayas...and under that.well I dont know...they have strange taste for clothing!
I went one time to our drivers house, and this is a small house with three bedrooms in a very poor village. four brothers who are married and a mother lives there in this tiny house! But I have never met so sweet and polite people as them. They opened their doors to us. Made us this delicious egyptian food and still everytime we come to egypt they invite us there. Even they have a hard life, they still smile and still are very welcoming. (this is really rare, and i have been to many arabic countries). Egypt has its bad sides, but so does USA and so does norway too. If you find it a shame that so many people are homeless or iliterate or so many orphans...then why dont you do something about it. You say you are a writer in a fashion magazine, so write about it then! so the people will be more aware of it and maybe they will start helping. And you say you cant be fashionable and at the same time be a muslim, mmmm, the most fashionable in Norway is the muslim girls, I am very fashionable, I design my own clothes. but I still wear hijab and do my 5 times a day prayers.

Regarding how my fiance will support me in a lifestyle I am used to. I supported myself all these years, why am I going to have a man support me now. For your information- he owns two businesses so I wanted him to do this, he would. However, he respects my indiviuality and independance.

There is oppression and racism in every society- even America! Its what YOU as an individual choose to do. You might be a nice person, but unfortunately you are so busy listing how beautiful you are and that you depend on your face and smile to get through life. Well, maybe that is the problem.

You know that song-"Midnight Train to Georgia"- if you listen to that and relate than you will understand why I choose to go to Egypt. I am not blind in thinking life will be perfect and rosy- life no matter where you are is like that. However, I choose to face these everyday obstacles of life and the future journey with my soulmate.

I read more on your man and it doesnt sound like he has a grasp on true Islam as you do. Drugs, alcohol, and pre-marital sex are not condoned. This is with Christianity as well. If this is life you want, then I hope that you stay safe- I made the mistake of living a Crazy life in my early 20's and it is fun at first but then it only brings pain and loneliness. Also, when you meet your true love, you will understand that all these material things you talk about will not matter.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Thank you for your information. Many of my American friends have warned me that there is a huge possibility that he might find that America is not suited for him. One of the things my friends have emphasized that he will not appreciate is the fact that women are so liberated and powerful here whereas in Egypt they are still second class in terms of employment and living independently, also he will not like the whole gay scene that is prevalent here. The majority of my friends are gay males and they feel that this will be a huge problem. They don't and including some of my family members want me to continue this relationship because they think that I am dating "down". I personally don't feel that he'll have a difficult time adjusting here. However, I do want him to take a tourist visa so he can come visit me in the fall. This way, he could see this country first before making the committment of leaving his life in Egypt. My boyfriend is very Westernized and none of his female family members practice hijab. That is to not say that he is not a good Muslim but he is not a practicing Muslim. He drinks alcohol, smokes hashish, has'nt stepped foot in a mosque in years, he can't recall the last time he prayed 5 times a day, was in a sexual and emotional relationship with a divorced woman with a child for 3 years and took me to dance clubs and theaters quite frequently . He is very image oriented and is very blunt about his woman having to match his standards (when we were out in public in Alex it was mandatory that I wear full makeup). In other words, he's a Dallas Metrosexual! I will look into the Richardson Masjid as well as Al-Amir and the other young Muslim hangouts as soon as I find out what his mother will think of me when I see her in August.
As far as studying Islam, this desire has been ongoing since the time i lived in London (2001) and met many Muslims (mostly French Algerians) and they were very kind to me. I've had a very wild, beautiful, confusing, painful and full of wonders lifestyle (i'm 25) that most women would die to have, yet I've still never felt fulfilled. Going to Egypt and observing the good parts of Islamic behavoir brought much needed clarity and pursued me more into converting. However, I still don't think it was enough for me to want to live in Egypt. Will I practice hijab and wear head to toe covering here in America? No i will not. One is because of my job(i work for a fashion magazine) and two i would be losing a part of my personal identity if I did that. I need a certain amount of materialistic goods to feel satisfied, simple as that. Also, one thing that i have learned from dating numerous men is that your partner should appreciate who you are and not try to change your core personality. Again, thank you for your help. Since you live in Dallas, we should meet up. Tell me more about how you met your fiance and all the tribulations of that(the visa process, his family, etc.). Thanks.

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Of course, I would have to have a translator and a man to assist me in all this, since the majority of those business are owned by men. This is where my boyfriend comes in. If I could get him over here we could open up a business and he would be able to support his family back at home and we in turn could support the amazingly creative designers in Egypt. We both have had a lifelong dream of opening up our own shop with electic goods.

When I first met him, I did not even consider him in helping me open up a store, but as time went on and i found out how close our personalities were, I found out that he was the missing pea in my pod. Now i think you will understand why it is so important for his mothers approval of me. We are both needing this very badly. Like he said before, "he can't imagine marrying someone that his mother did not approve of".

As for me converting to Islam, I can be Islamic, but my life would more likely resemble the Muslims pictured in Cleo and Louge magazine, this is how he lives his life is in Egypt.

As for him finding someone else here who is a born Muslim, that is real possiblity, as all my Muslim friends have warned me. This is why its a necessity that I fill out a prenuptial agreement to forsake any financial loss on my part.

How did you meet your fiancee? Also, if any other American girls who are married to an Egyptian man and live in Egypt are reading this, can you please tell me your personal stories of how you met your fiance/husband. i'm very intrigued by how many responses i have gotten from American women living in Egypt and I have tons of questions to ask you all. my email address is: jadoredarphin@yahoo.fr

many thanks!

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Originally posted by Nooralhaq2005:
Frienda,

Well after reading your reply I think I see things with you much clearer.

I slightly understand the type of lifestyle you prefer and I am familiar with the things you mentioned in a cultural way. The gay scene here in Dallas is downtrodden with many things I don't agree with. However, my agreement with those things is not of concern to you.

I wonder, if his family is not 'practicing' Muslims and he does not, why is it necessary for you to fake being Muslim? I say 'fake being Muslim' because that is what you will be doing. Will you say, 'I converted to Islam but did the same things I did before I was Muslim?'. Also, being Muslim is an act, there are too many who claim to be Muslim that don't live that way. Same with Christians, same with any religion.

You are young now but we must look ahead, 10, 20, 30 years ahead and think about how much we will change, our tastes, our preferances, our principals and lifestyles. Do you really think marrying an Egyptian man who claims to be Muslim but drinks, smokes hash, sleeps with questionable women and prefers you to wear FULL makeup when you are out together to look the part will still be your desire in 20 years? What happens when you don't look the part anymore? What happens when you have children with this man?

What happens if he delves deeper (and more faithfully) into his religion as he ages? I think a deeper issue also is the fact that many men overseas will marry a woman for a visa specifically and believe me this happens OFTEN. Would you not want someone who is honest with his Allah and good to begin with? The stakes seem somehow against you my friend and if I were you and looking into the future, I would be very nervous.

It seems to me you are involved in a lifestyle that celebrates many bad things, drugs, alcohol, acts against God. I just fear you care more about what his mother 'thinks' of you (not what you really are) and less about what God thinks of you. How can that be?

Also, on that subject, I'm curious why you two want to marry each other? I'm guessing he is handsome, you are pretty. Ok, we have the mutual attraction thing down. Good. But what qualities do you see in a man who likes to show you to other men like meat? What qualities do you see in a man who gets drunk and does drugs? If your family should think anything, they should think this is marrying 'down'. The same for his family. Please don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to disrespect you at all, and forgive me if I did please. It just seems so strange to me the entire thing.

I thought I might be able to help you since we are from the same place. But I must admit, like any place else, we are so different. I am looking through the glass at your situation in a religious way and you seem to be looking out of the glass in a much different way. Perhaps as LIFEAGIFT said earlier you are two peas in a pod. Perhaps you are a lot alike and you will both mature and find enlightenment together. That is an optimistic way of looking at. However, I must admit the more realistic way to look at it is simply that this is a relationship (marriage) of convenience and fun and seems to be being taken as a joke, not something serious. There are some things in this life we don't spit on, some things in this life we don't take lightly and marriage is definitely one of those things. We don't spit on marrige. And entering into it for the ability to have and go to clubs and hang out with gay men and get drunk and do drugs and be as far from God as you can just seems like spitting on the institution. I know you must think I am very short sighted, and perhaps I am, but I cannot end without saying this:
if you love this man, the best thing you could do for him is to bring him back to his religion. Perhaps his family doesn't practice the way they should, but that isn't a reason to pull him further from the way he was raised to think is normal. If you really loved him, you might encourage him to it more seriously and be honest with himself and God. He would (in the end) find a new love for you not found in any clubs, under any makeup, in any drink or with any other woman.

I appreciate your offer to get together to chat, but to be honest with you and myself, I just don't think that would be possible. We are such different people and you would not like what I had to say and most likely I would not like what you have to say. I think you probably have a very good heart and I hope your plans to enter into marriage with this man will be successful. Honestly, with all my heart I hope the best for you both and I also hope you think at least a little about what I have told you openly here today.
Take care.

[This message has been edited by Nooralhaq2005 (edited 28 May 2005).]

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Why do you want to hear from other Americans marrying Egyptians? To find a way to convince his mother to accept you? Is that the reason? From the many Americans and Europeans I have encountered married to Egyptians, none of them have sounded like you, had the selfish intentions of you- so Im not sure what you hope to gain from us.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Thank you for detailed response. In terms of how I view this future marriage, you do have a point when you mention convenience. When I went to Egypt, I was amazed at how fashionable the clothing stores were(even though you'll never see them worn in public) and how damn affordable everythig was even when I paid retail. JB Collection, Bella Donna, Maxima on the Alex Corniche, Rim shoes and every store in the Roushdy neighborhood to name a few were so stylish. I've shopped the world and I have never received so many compliments until i purchased this Egyptian wardrobe. The fabric qualities, colours and attention to detail were magnifiscent. I have long wanted to open up a clothing store here in Dallas because as you know we Dallas women are very superficial and this kind of clothing would sell like hotcakes here. Going there made me realise that I would love to open a store with clothing and jewelry that is made and designed in Egypt. Wholesaling clothing from Egypt and selling them at a triple markup rate here in America would make a healthy profit and great buisness.

Of course, I would have to have a translator and a man to assist me in all this, since the majority of those business are owned by men. This is where my boyfriend comes in. If I could get him over here we could open up a business and he would be able to support his family back at home and we in turn could support the amazingly creative designers in Egypt. We both have had a lifelong dream of opening up our own shop with electic goods.

When I first met him, I did not even consider him in helping me open up a store, but as time went on and i found out how close our personalities were, I found out that he was the missing pea in my pod. Now i think you will understand why it is so important for his mothers approval of me. We are both needing this very badly. Like he said before, "he can't imagine marrying someone that his mother did not approve of".

As for me converting to Islam, I can be Islamic, but my life would more likely resemble the Muslims pictured in Cleo and Louge magazine, this is how he lives his life is in Egypt.

As for him finding someone else here who is a born Muslim, that is real possiblity, as all my Muslim friends have warned me. This is why its a necessity that I fill out a prenuptial agreement to forsake any financial loss on my part.

How did you meet your fiancee? Also, if any other American girls who are married to an Egyptian man and live in Egypt are reading this, can you please tell me your personal stories of how you met your fiance/husband. i'm very intrigued by how many responses i have gotten from American women living in Egypt and I have tons of questions to ask you all. my email address is: jadoredarphin@yahoo.fr

many thanks!

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Originally posted by tracey2BNegypt:
Actually from the sound of conveniance, it sounds like both of you are using each other. This definitely does not sound like a love match, but rather what you can get out of each other.

Why do you want to hear from other Americans marrying Egyptians? To find a way to convince his mother to accept you? Is that the reason? From the many Americans and Europeans I have encountered married to Egyptians, none of them have sounded like you, had the selfish intentions of you- so Im not sure what you hope to gain from us.

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Originally posted by frienda:

As for me converting to Islam, I can be Islamic, but my life would more likely resemble the Muslims pictured in Cleo and Louge magazine, this is how he lives his life is in Egypt.

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I am sorry did i miss something here, you surely mean you want to be a Muslim like in the Koran, not some glossy magazine.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Absolutely it's a marriage out of convenience, not once have I mentioned love now have I? Why do I want to gain from you all? Nothing in fact, I'm just extremely intrigued how you could leave your life here for another country that is the extreme of how you were raised. i would also like to know your families reactions. like i said previously, i'm intriuged by the human oddities, and well you all are one of them.i have lived with aboriginals in the outback, begged for money in england and almost ended my life in the Newfoundland. There is nothing that surprises me, until I meet you gals. i think it's amazing that you are leaving this fucked up (no, I don't have any shame in admitting this) yet amazing country called America for something more stable and blunt country such as Egypt. Honestly, this intrigues me. I love change and all that goes on with it, and you all are the clear epitome of this. not once have i disrespected your opinion to move to Egypt, now have I? I have to admit, my life here in america has been crazy filled with drugs, extreme wealth, and a plethora of other things, and when i lived in egypt I realised that no, I don't need drugs to make me happy. i admit, this was such a good feeling. being back in america and in dallas society, i'm back to my old ways unforutnately. i love the fact that you all have made the decision to change your life entirely for something that is so unpredictable. i know i will never be able to, but i respect the fact that you all have. like i mentioned before, please email me when you have a chance. by the way, i spoke to my boyfriend earlier and his mom saw the photos of me (dammit, i was half-clothed, for a print ad). this is what she said, "she looks very interesting, bordering on Asian, and I don't think she knows much about Islam, however, I want you to know that I think there is a possibility that she would like Islam after all", so who knows, inshallah everything will be cleared in August. email me when you have a chance. sorry if this email does not make any sense, i just came from a huge party and I'm a tad bit messed up at the moment.

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Well girl if you think there is any chance that his mother is going to approve of a girl who can write the above, forget it.

We had a huge party last year http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/party.htm 2000 people worshiping God and having nothing stronger than tea.

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Originally posted by frienda:
Absolutely it's a marriage out of convenience, not once have I mentioned love now have I? Why do I want to gain from you all? Nothing in fact, I'm just extremely intrigued how you could leave your life here for another country that is the extreme of how you were raised. i would also like to know your families reactions. like i said previously, i'm intriuged by the human oddities, and well you all are one of them.i have lived with aboriginals in the outback, begged for money in england and almost ended my life in the Newfoundland. There is nothing that surprises me, until I meet you gals. i think it's amazing that you are leaving this fucked up (no, I don't have any shame in admitting this) yet amazing country called America for something more stable and blunt country such as Egypt. Honestly, this intrigues me. I love change and all that goes on with it, and you all are the clear epitome of this. not once have i disrespected your opinion to move to Egypt, now have I? I have to admit, my life here in america has been crazy filled with drugs, extreme wealth, and a plethora of other things, and when i lived in egypt I realised that no, I don't need drugs to make me happy. i admit, this was such a good feeling. being back in america and in dallas society, i'm back to my old ways unforutnately. i love the fact that you all have made the decision to change your life entirely for something that is so unpredictable. i know i will never be able to, but i respect the fact that you all have. like i mentioned before, please email me when you have a chance. by the way, i spoke to my boyfriend earlier and his mom saw the photos of me (dammit, i was half-clothed, for a print ad). this is what she said, "she looks very interesting, bordering on Asian, and I don't think she knows much about Islam, however, I want you to know that I think there is a possibility that she would like Islam after all", so who knows, inshallah everything will be cleared in August. email me when you have a chance. sorry if this email does not make any sense, i just came from a huge party and I'm a tad bit messed up at the moment.

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it sounds like you have your head on straight and realistically. i think you said you are also going to egypt in august to be with your fiance, as i am. i tried to look up you email cause i thought it would be cool if we could chat about our new life in egypt. my email is t_cyrene_t@yahoo.com if youre interested. thanks and if i dont hear from you- good luck with everything!
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Originally posted by tracey2BNegypt:
Hi american gal-

it sounds like you have your head on straight and realistically. i think you said you are also going to egypt in august to be with your fiance, as i am. i tried to look up you email cause i thought it would be cool if we could chat about our new life in egypt. my email is t_cyrene_t@yahoo.com if youre interested. thanks and if i dont hear from you- good luck with everything!

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[/B][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by Umm Laura:
Frienda.... please come to Egypt to be with your man.... we need somebody as graceful, giving, an wonderful as you.....It's actually amazing that Egypt has survived this long without you...
You would also be such a benefit to the muslim community if you converted.... you could teach the poor downtrodden unfashionable muslim women how to look glamorous and fashionable!!!

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Originally posted by frienda:

Is it similar to the animosity Black women feel when they see a Black man dating a White women? I'm triracial, so I know this animosity is very existent in American culture.

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I find it ignorant of you to single out Black women in America as feeling animosity as if they somehow invented the concept of racism. How about the animosity coming from white men, or even other white women or black men that despise seeing interracial couples period. And I can tell you that the Black mothers of those mixed relationships are ten times more likely to accept the relationship, than the white father!(Guess whose coming home to dinner)And he is more comfortable bringing her into his "hood" than he would be parading her around some 'all white' redneck bar.

And as a Black woman married to an Egyptian,(living in Egypt) I can assure you that kind of racial prejudice doesnt exist in Egypt the way it does in the states. And Egyptian women are not angry when they see an Egyptian man with a foreigner, that may all be up in that head of yours.

If you are a serious convert, and dress the part, you would find them all treating you with the utmost respect. I see the red carpet rolled out for the newly converted especially if you are sincere, you'll find many muslimahs willing to assist you in your dean, and treating you with sisterly love no matter what your nationality.

I think what they don't like, and I can hardly blame them, is anybody looking down their nose at them, the way you are doing right now. And here you are a tripple minority of mixed heritage, I would thin you'd be a little more sensitive.

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Originally posted by lifeAgift:
WOW
I'm an African American Muslimah in the states longing for the day that hubby and i live in Egypt to escape the likes of the OP.
Materialism and snobbery does not equal piece of mind.

Is it Animosity African American women really feel or just PITY??????

I would never think to insult my hubby and his culture by making such narrow minded comments about the clothing, customs or economics of his country.

Yeh so the jobs don't pay what you think he is worth. But how much money do you really need if you live a life debt free, interest free and your parents had the forsight to build a flat for you and your spouse to be so you could live communally, avoiding expensive child care cost and actually spending time doing what Allah wants you to do??? Worship and pray 5 times per day, make the Hajj, live piously. Participate in Ramadan Give the Zakat, make dahwah etc.. etc...
Fashion magazines, near nude models, texas politics and bling bling don't play into this.

I hope you are not choosing Islam on a whim too.

A hoochie in Hijaby is all Egypt needs.
EEEEK!!!

[This message has been edited by lifeAgift (edited 28 May 2005).]

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As for dressing the part, i did, I wore a hijab with loose extra large linen clothing and this did not help me one bit.

being a minority in america, i still had not been treated so poorly and with disrespect until I went to Egypt. i cried myself to sleep for the first two weeks of arriving. I've never encountered so much racism,sexism, sexual and physical harrassment in my life. take in mind when i mention this, i mean when i was unescorted. if your escorted 24/7 you won't be experiencing much of what i said. I even had a Rosa Parks moment and thank goodness the police interfered or else I would have been beat up by a gang of men because i refused to move from my bench where i was happily eating my yogurt.

I had a good talk with my Islamic studies instructor, and she suggested that I wear a khimar with a Niqab and that I change my mannerisms (never smile because it made me look friendly, never give eye contact to men and walk with my head down). This worked, but still, this was such a contradiction to my personality.

some of the women were friendly, most of them were in their 40's and up. the young girls were very hateful toward me. they would simply give me hateful glances and stares. my islamic instructor said that perhaps it was because they could tell by my features that I was not Egyptian nor completely Arabic, so in there eyes I was just another Western hussy. i believe it, that evil eye was not good.

all in all my experience was poor. i did meet some nice and humble people, but the disrespect that they have for their own people and myself was very difficult to overlook. glad to know that you're experience has been perfect. i just can't tolerate people treating me like poop so perhaps thats why i did'nt fully enjoy my stay. take care and best wishes.

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Originally posted by Habiba1:
I find it ignorant of you to single out Black women in America as feeling animosity as if they somehow invented the concept of racism. How about the animosity coming from white men, or even other white women or black men that despise seeing interracial couples period. And I can tell you that the Black mothers of those mixed relationships are ten times more likely to accept the relationship, than the white father!(Guess whose coming home to dinner)And he is more comfortable bringing her into his "hood" than he would be parading her around some 'all white' redneck bar.

And as a Black woman married to an Egyptian,(living in Egypt) I can assure you that kind of racial prejudice doesnt exist in Egypt the way it does in the states. And Egyptian women are not angry when they see an Egyptian man with a foreigner, that may all be up in that head of yours.

If you are a serious convert, and dress the part, you would find them all treating you with the utmost respect. I see the red carpet rolled out for the newly converted especially if you are sincere, you'll find many muslimahs willing to assist you in your dean, and treating you with sisterly love no matter what your nationality.

I think what they don't like, and I can hardly blame them, is anybody looking down their nose at them, the way you are doing right now. And here you are a tripple minority of mixed heritage, I would thin you'd be a little more sensitive.

BTW, no one chooses a month when they will convert,(i.e. you said August) it just happens, something tells me you're doing it just to impress his family, and they will see through it, and he may resent you for it.

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Originally posted by frienda:
It's not ignorant about what I mentioned. It's very uncommon to see White men with Black women, it's allways the other way around. Read Ebony and Jet magazine, about 6 of their 12 issues a year have a subject in relation to this.

As for dressing the part, i did, I wore a hijab with loose extra large linen clothing and this did not help me one bit.

being a minority in america, i still had not been treated so poorly and with disrespect until I went to Egypt. i cried myself to sleep for the first two weeks of arriving. I've never encountered so much racism,sexism, sexual and physical harrassment in my life. take in mind when i mention this, i mean when i was unescorted. if your escorted 24/7 you won't be experiencing much of what i said. I even had a Rosa Parks moment and thank goodness the police interfered or else I would have been beat up by a gang of men because i refused to move from my bench where i was happily eating my yogurt.

I had a good talk with my Islamic studies instructor, and she suggested that I wear a khimar with a Niqab and that I change my mannerisms (never smile because it made me look friendly, never give eye contact to men and walk with my head down). This worked, but still, this was such a contradiction to my personality.

some of the women were friendly, most of them were in their 40's and up. the young girls were very hateful toward me. they would simply give me hateful glances and stares. my islamic instructor said that perhaps it was because they could tell by my features that I was not Egyptian nor completely Arabic, so in there eyes I was just another Western hussy. i believe it, that evil eye was not good.

all in all my experience was poor. i did meet some nice and humble people, but the disrespect that they have for their own people and myself was very difficult to overlook. glad to know that you're experience has been perfect. i just can't tolerate people treating me like poop so perhaps thats why i did'nt fully enjoy my stay. take care and best wishes.

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I hope your dealings with the people you had contact with in Egypt was just bad luck. As you know, if someone came to the wrong part of Dallas, South Dallas, Balch Springs, or walked down Oak Lawn Avenue at midnight on a Saturday night, perhaps if they ventured into some places most of us who have lived here all of our lives would rather not, they might come away with the idea of America (or Dallas for that matter) as being these horrible things.

Find the North Dallas of Egypt, find the Highland Park, the Richardson the quaint Rowlett and Rockwall areas and find the people there who represent their countries well.

On that note, you might be leery of the fact that this man surrounds himself with questionable people. We surround ourselves with friends that reflect our own selves sometimes.

As far as the race issue, I think that's dead. You will never find more racism than here in America and I have been guilty of it and I have been victim of it. Most of us have in some fashion. You live in Dallas, which means since you are not white I doubt very seriously if you are the minority. Texas has one of the largest Hispanic populations in the country (other than Southern California) and I feel with you. My mother is Mexican American (white father) so I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly from african americans, from white people, from hispanics, just about everyone. It is not hate specific to one race. At the same time I have seen such beautiful affection and friendship in all of these races as well. Sometimes it is all about the good we try to find rather than the bad. The same might be said for Egypt, and I would caution you against formulating a picture in your mind based on some bad people you had contact with there. If you do that, you will have to leave Dallas pretty quickly, too, and good luck finding any place in the world free of these things.
I wish you luck.