quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You're just mad because even those who can fck anything wouldn't fck you!
I Would not like to be fcked by anything and everything. Thats egyptian tradition and Im not egyptian!!!!! If it still has a pulse and some coins- FCK IT!!
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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tibe u should respect the egyptian culture much more than that especially than u r married to an egy , i wouldnt enter a danish forum to curse their different traditions or what i dislike there
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quote:Originally posted by egyptian7: tibe u should respect the egyptian culture much more than that especially than u r married to an egy , i wouldnt enter a danish forum to curse their different traditions or what i dislike there
Respect is something that people earn - it doesnt come for free. And i didnt come here to curse anything i was discussing football until i got attacked just for having the view that egyptian football sucks. I like many of the players but they do not have the standard of great football nations.
Thats my honest opinion and im very allowed to have that. Im not gonna bullsh!t you with ear gas like EGYPT ia so great and i think they are gonna go all the way at the world cup ect ect ect when i really do know that they are probaly not gonna do very well - and so is Denmark. We are most likely never gonna get even close to the final. Truth might be hard to face but facts is not to be ignored eventhough it might hurt a few sensitive egyptian egos.....
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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B!tch please! don't flatter yourself with this visa thing, of all places in the world Denmark is the least desired, you can thank your great cartoonist who f0cked yall up i give it 10 years and you will be on the 3rd world list! I dare you if you can go to downtown Cairo and say "hey people i'm from Denmark", don't forget to say that you suck cox and lick a$$ holes for living, they'll hook ya up!
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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Originally posted by Tibe still working: Yes they r all gigolos. They fck anything and everything for money and a visa (With Gabr as a sole exception ). Then they are probaly married to a cousin also and have 10 inbreeded kids with mutiple disorders...... Eyptians when they are best
Are you positively sure this is 100% true ?? Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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This thread started with Tibe saying the Egyptain football were crap - So what? My husband (who is Egyptain) would most probably agree with her but that's ok because he is Egyptain, right?
Some of the comments/insults on this thread shows what kind of people 'some' of you are. Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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Look in the other threads, Happybunny, it g r o w s!!!Some people think it is okay to use this language as soon as you d i s a g r e e with them. If you think it is truly sad that a former russian stabs a pregnant woman to death, but don't think it is a setup from the German gouvernment who tries to swipe it under the carpet, then you also will be all this filth. Not much really is necesarry to become a target. Just disagree and your husband will be called a gigolo, you will be called a pig or a cow, and your country will be a fascistic racist state based on a still unclear revolution. I think this means that all the people are bad...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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This started as a topic about a football match and has degenerated into personal insults. If someone has a different view then air it no problem but taking it to the lowest level is just wrong Hey QM off topic did you enjoy the final? Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Of Course! I felt sad for Roddick, but I think after a week or so he still can be proud of what he did. I'm not exactly a Roddick-fan, but what he did was fantastic. And it took so loooooong...to be honest, I don't like this 2 games difference instead of a tiebreak.
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I agree QM. I would have liked to see the under dog win! He should be very proud of himself. I never realised that they didn't do the tie breaker in the 5th at Wimbledon Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by happybunny: This thread started with Tibe saying the Egyptain football were crap - So what? My husband (who is Egyptain) would most probably agree with her but that's ok because he is Egyptain, right?
Some of the comments/insults on this thread shows what kind of people 'some' of you are.
True, and that includes me, i don't mind being labeled as whatever in your book for responding back to her, i don't think it was necessary for her to degrade us (egyptian men) the way she did, sorry i had to let her know what time it is! Really some people need serious help, either a doctor or a d!ck!
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by young at heart: I agree QM. I would have liked to see the under dog win! He should be very proud of himself. I never realised that they didn't do the tie breaker in the 5th at Wimbledon
It's a Grand Slam rule.We often use the pro-set instead as a final set. Or the winning-point; as soon as it is advantage, only one point is needed.
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Roddick was in tears, he done such effort to beat the world number 1, but it was so clear how pissed off he was..I think if it were not for his naive mistakes (lack of concentration) he could easily have beaten Federer. He's still got a future ahead of him, with Nadal in his way of course. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: B!tch please! don't flatter yourself with this visa thing, of all places in the world Denmark is the least desired, you can thank your great cartoonist who f0cked yall up i give it 10 years and you will be on the 3rd world list! I dare you if you can go to downtown Cairo and say "hey people i'm from Denmark", don't forget to say that you suck cox and lick a$$ holes for living, they'll hook ya up!
Nice when people show their real colour. Didnt expect y to understand the provocative irony of my post. They bash and degrate my egyptian husband so i degrate the entire egyptian males by agreeing with them. Dont forget my sweet love is egyptian - and his a fine piece of work. BTW most people in Denmark (and most of the rich and developed countries in europe) dont like more foreigners in our country so its a bonus if the cartoons scarred the 3. world countries.
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe still working: BTW most people in Denmark (and most of the rich and developed countries in europe) dont like more foreigners in our country so its a bonus if the cartoons scarred the 3. world countries. [/QB]
Tibe still provoking Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe still working: BTW most people in Denmark (and most of the rich and developed countries in europe) dont like more foreigners in our country so its a bonus if the cartoons scarred the 3. world countries.
Tibe still provoking [/QB]
Yes to immigrants with educations and desires to work and integrate.
No to immigrants with the impression that europe floats with milk and honey without y have to work for it - or their 8-10-12 children which is not allowed to attend normal schools out of fear that they will become "too european like".
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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Yes to immigrants with educations and desires to work and integrate.
No to immigrants with the impression that europe floats with milk and honey without y have to work for it - or their 8-10-12 children which is not allowed to attend normal schools out of fear that they will become "too european like".
Have to agree with Tibe on this point
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Yes to immigrants with educations and desires to work and integrate.
No to immigrants with the impression that europe floats with milk and honey without y have to work for it - or their 8-10-12 children which is not allowed to attend normal schools out of fear that they will become "too european like".
Have to agree with Tibe on this point
SO I would like to ask what do you think about your colonialist ancestors? Do you sometimes feel sorry as they got all the mines and wealth of today's 3rd world countries?
Just a sincere question.
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: B!tch please! don't flatter yourself with this visa thing, of all places in the world Denmark is the least desired, you can thank your great cartoonist who f0cked yall up i give it 10 years and you will be on the 3rd world list! I dare you if you can go to downtown Cairo and say "hey people i'm from Denmark", don't forget to say that you suck cox and lick a$$ holes for living, they'll hook ya up!
Nice when people show their real colour. Didnt expect y to understand the provocative irony of my post. They bash and degrate my egyptian husband so i degrate the entire egyptian males by agreeing with them. Dont forget my sweet love is egyptian - and his a fine piece of work. BTW most people in Denmark (and most of the rich and developed countries in europe) dont like more foreigners in our country so its a bonus if the cartoons scarred the 3. world countries.
Real color??? are you stupid? where on this forum did i come off as Mr. gentleman? I hate idiots like you when you start some bullsh!t and can't keep it up then you're starting to blame people for reacting, it's so sad that we have to deal with your ignorance and lack of sense when you're trying to prove something! Yea, there are some men in Egypt specially those who live in small villages marry their cousins, how many? a freaking handful, big deal!!, now go ahead and make a federal case out of it and keep throwing it in our faces in every thread! If you actually read the history you will know that ancient Egyptians actually married their siblings NOT cousins, is that f0cked up?? YES, but apart from this they still established a great civilization and when you remember them you will never think of what they did. Now if a man locks up their own daughter in the basement for 20 some years and..... This is what i call SICK, you don't see that a lot in our culture. I'm not saying we're the best but if you want people to respect your culture show some respect and accept others then the world will be a better place!
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From the day India became a target of Muslim invaders its people began to be enslaved in droves to be sold in foreign lands or employed in various capacities on menial and not-so-menial jobs within the country. To understand this phenomenon it is necessary to go into the origins and development of the Islamic system of slavery. For, wherever the Muslims went, mostly as conquerors but also as traders, there developed a system of slavery peculiar to the clime, terrain and populace of the place. For example, simultaneously with Muhammad bin Qasims invasion of Sindh in early 8th century, the expansion of Arab Islam had gone apace as far as Egypt, North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula in the West, as well as in Syria, Asia Minor, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Khurasan, Sistan and Transoxiana. In all these countries Muslim slave system grew and developed in its own way. There was constant contact between India and most of these countries in the medieval times. For example, as early as during the reigns of the slave sultans Iltutmish and Balban (1210-86), there arrived at their courts in Delhi a large number of princes with their followers from Iraq, Khurasan and Mawar-un-Nahr because of the Mongol upheaval. Many localities in Delhi and its environs were settled by these elites and their slaves, soldiers and scholars. In Balbans royal procession 500 Sistani, Ghauri and Samarqandi slave-troops with drawn swords used to march by his side pointing to the fact that a large number of foreign slaves from these lands had come to India in 13th-14th centuries. When the Mughals launched their conquest of India, there was the establishment of the Ottoman Empire in Turkey which at its height included present-day Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania and several other contiguous countries. Then there was the Safavid empire in Iran. The Ottoman Empire traded with Europe and imported there indispensable stock of slaves. (Slav, as the word indicates), supplied by merchants, sometimes Jewish, from Verdun, Venice or elsewhere in Italy. Other slaves were brought from black Africa, eastern Europe and Turkish Central Asia. The Mughals of India had very close contacts with the Turkish Ottoman and Iranian Safavid empires. This contact certainly included exchange of slaves and ideas on slavery. But any attempt in this area of study, which is so vast and labyrinthine, is bound to deflect us from our main theme which is restricted to India. We shall therefore confine ourselves to the barest particulars of the beginnings of the institution outside India which will suffice for understanding the Muslim slave system in India in the medieval period.
Prophet Muhammad found slavery existing in Arabia, and recognised it in the Quran. The origins of Muslim slave system can thus be traced to Arabia, the original Muslim homeland, and the regions into which Islam spread. Quranic injunctions, Islamic conquests and Muslim administrative institutions gave it a continuity and legitimacy. According to T.P. Hughes, Slavery is in complete harmony with the spirit of Islam That Muhammad ameliorated the condition of the slave, as it existed under the heathen law of Arabia, we cannot doubt; but it is equally certain that the Arabian legislator intended it to be a permanent institution. D.S. Margoliouth elaborates on the theme adding that On the whole the Prophet did something to alleviate the existence of the captives manumission was declared by him to be an act of piety and murder or maiming of slaves was to be punished by retaliation. In one of his last sermons, Muhammad exhorted his followers thus: And your Slaves! See that ye feed them with such food as ye eat yourselves; and clothe them with the stuff ye wear. And if they commit a fault which ye are not inclined to forgive, then sell them, for they are the servants of the Lord, and are not to be tormented. His first orthodox biographer, Ibn Ishaq, however mentions a transaction which set a precedent for Islamic slave trade at a later, stage: Then the apostle sent Sad b. Zayd Al-Ansari with some of the captive women of B Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons. The women had been made captive after their menfolk had been slaughtered en masse in the market place at Medina.
Status of Slaves in Islam
The appeal of Muhammad contained some fundamental perceptions about the status of slaves in Islam. It recognised the slave as the property of the master. A slave could be sold but, being a Muslim or servant of the Lord, was not to be treated harshly. Here it needs to be observed that in the early days of Islam it was the scum of the society the flocked to the standard of Muhammad and became his fighting force. Koran acknowledges so distinctly that the followers of the Prophet were the lowest of the people. Arabian aristocracy �requested him to send away this scum before they would argue with him, (as did the Turkish ruling classes treat the early Muslim converts in India). But the mission of Muhammad was to spread his creed and any non-humane regulations would have presented a very unfavourable picture of Islam to the captives. This would have discouraged proselytization. On conversion also Muslim slaves could not be treated badly for that again would have been damaging to the reputation of the new creed and galling to the lives of the new converts. How these injunctions were later on followed or flouted by Muslim invaders and rulers in other countries is a different matter. In the original land of Islam, in Arabia, it was enjoined not to treat the slaves harshly; instead the masters were encouraged to utilize to the best the services of men slaves and enjoy the intimate company of women slaves.
This tolerant treatment was not without conditions. A slave was the property of his master. His tenor of life was determined by the latter. For example, he could not marry without the masters permission. Although he was free to move from place to place, he could not hold pleasure parties nor pay visits to friends. A slave could not bestow aims or grant a loan or make a pilgrimage. If he managed to accumulate any property, it was inherited not by his sons but by the master. In theory a slave could purchase his freedom, but bond of freedom was granted to a slave in return for money paid, and until full money was paid there was no total redemption. A slave should not seek his emancipation by running away, The slave who fled from his master committed an act of infidelity, says Muhammad.
The emancipation of slaves was not unknown in pre-Islamic Arabia. It was an old custom among the Arabs of more pious disposition to will that their slaves would be freed at their death. To Muhammad, the freeing of a slave was an act of charity on the part of the master, not a matter of justice, and only a believing slave deserved freedom.
In short, slavery in Islam is a permanent and perennial institution. As Margoliouth points out, the abolition of slavery was not a notion that ever entered the Prophets mind.The fact remains,writes Ram Swarup that Muhammad, by introducing the concept of religious war and by denying human rights to non-Muslims, sanctioned slavery on an unprecedented scale (and on) such massive proportions. Zubair, a close companion of the Prophet, owned one thousand slaves when he died. The Prophet himself possessed at least fifty-nine slaves at one stage or another, besides thirty-eight servants, both male and female. Mirkhond, the Prophet�s fifteenth century biographer, names them all in his Rauzat-us-Safa. The fact is that slavery, tribute, and booty became the main props of the new Arab aristocracy. The Slavery of Islam is interwoven with the Law of marriage, the Law of sale, and the Law of inheritance, of the system, and its abolition would strike at the very foundations of the code of Muhaminadanism.
Extension of Islamic Slavery
Islamic slave system spread and developed wherever Muslim rule was established. Ghulam or quallar (slave) was the creation of the Safavid state. Mamluks were found in Egypt. In the Ottoman empire they were called kapi-kulus. �Kapi-kulu were recruited originally from the Sultan's share of prisoners of war, and subsequently from a periodical levy (depshrime) of Christian boys. Most of the youths entered the Janissary corps. Christian slaves were drawn from the ranks of the Georgian, Armenian and Circassian prisoners or their descendants. Black slaves, natives of East Africa, were called Zanj. Majority of slaves who penetrated and flourished in India were Turks.
Immediately after its birth, Muhammadanism entered upon a career of aggressive and expansionist conquest. Its Caliphs conquered extensively and set up autocratic governments based on the tenets of Islam rather than democratic governments based on the will of the people. Conquests required large armies; despotic governments could not be run without a train of bureaucrats. From the ninth to the thirteenth century in particular it was a period of feverish activity in Muslim Asia; empires were established and pulled down; cities were founded and destroyed. In other words, the whole of Central Asia, Transoxiana and Turkistan was a very disturbed region in the medieval period. Armies and bureaucrats were needed in large numbers to administer the ever expanding dominions of Islam. The Turks came handy for such services.
Turkish Slaves
The Abbasids had built up a very large empire with capital at Baghdad,and its provinces were administered by their Turkish slave officers and Turk mercenary troops. Caliph al-Mutasim (833-842 C.E.) introduced the Turkish element into the army, and he was the first Caliph to have Turkish slaves under his employment. For it was soon discovered that the young slaves acquired from Turkistan and Mawar-un-Nahr formed an excellent material for such a corps.
Turks is a generic term comprehending peoples of sundry denominations and tribes. The Turkistan of the medieval historians was an extensive country. It was bounded on the east by China, on the west by Rum or Turkey, on the north by the walls of Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog) and on the south by the mountains of Hindustan.23 The Turks as a people were both civilised town-dwellers and the migratory tribes trekking across the desert or wilderness. With the extension of the Muslim frontier to the north and west of Persia one tribe after another, like Turks, Tartars, Turkomen and even Mongols and Afghans came under subjection. They attracted the attention of their conquerors by their bravery and spirit of adventure. They were acquired in groups and droves as slaves. The Caliphs of Islam also purchased Turkish slaves to manage their far-flung empire. The Turkish slaves helped the cause of Islam through their fighting spirit.
But as their numbers grew, they became unmanageable. For example, Caliph al-Mutasims own guard was of 4000 Turks; the number later rose to 70,000 slave mercenaries.With time the tyranny, lawlessness and power of the Turks went on increasing.The unscrupulous policy of religious persecution followed by the Caliph Mutawakkil was responsible for the alienation of the subject races. His own son entered into a conspiracy with the Turks, which ended in the Caliphs murder in 861. The Caliph Mutadid (892-902) was unable to suppress the power of the Turks. The final decline of the Caliphate set in just after the murder of Muqtadir in 932 C.E. The Turkish soldiers made and murdered Caliphs at their pleasure.As the Caliphal empire disintegrated, in the third century of Islam, its provincial governors became independent.
But technically these Turkish governors were only slaves and their tenure of power rested on military force and chance-victory and not on any moral foundations. On the other hand, the Caliphs were objects of respect. The first four Caliphs were directly related to Muhammad. Muawiyah, the founder of the Ummayad Caliphate, was a cousin of Abbas, an uncle of the Prophet. Abbas himself was founder of the Abbasid Caliphate. The Turkish slaves, therefore, considered it politic to keep a sort of special relationship with the Caliph: they went on paying him tribute and seeking from him recognition of their sovereignty. That is how, in course of time, their political power was firmly established.
Footnotes:
1 Minhaj, 598-99; Farishtah, I, 73, 75. 2 Barani, 57-58.
3 Cambridge History of Islam, II, 524. The word slave, observes Ram Swarup, �is derived from Stavs, the Slavonic peoples of Central Europe. When they were captured and made bondsmen, they gave birth to die word �slave��, The word as Revelation: Names of Gods, 23; also J.H. Kremers, The Legacy of Islam, 101.
4 Dictionary of Islam, 596, 600.
5 Margoliouth, Mohammed and the Rise of Islam, 461-62.
6 Cited in Muir, The Life of Mahomet, 473.
7 The Life of Muhammad: A translation of Ibn Ishaq�s Sirat Rasul Allah by A. Gillaume, CUP, Karachi (1955), Eighth Impression, 1987, 466.
8 Margoliouth, 98 quoting Quran, 11:27.
9 Ibid., 97
10 Ibid., 406-407; Quran, 4:3, 4:24, 4:25, 23:6; Muir, Life of Mahomet, 334-35, 365, 421.
11 Hughes, Dictionary of Islam, 598.
12 Sahib Muslim, Hadis, 3584, 3585, 3595.
13 Quran, 24:33.
14 Ram Swarup, Understanding Islam through Hadis, 76.
15 Margoliouth, Mohammed and the Rise of Islam,, 461.
16 Ram Swarup, op.cit., 75.
17 Hughes, Dictionary of Islam, 600.
18 Cambridge History of Islam, I, 280 and n., 342.
19 Ibid., 415, also 407.
20 Ibid.. 129-30, 179.
21 Ruben Levy, The Baghdad Chronicle, Cambridge, 1929, 13.
22 Hamdullah Mustaufi, Tarikh-i-Guzidah, ed. E.G. Browne, London, 1910, 318.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Again, lengthy, boring and pointless!!!! Grow up and come up with something more positive or i would have to talk about the brutal history of your pirate ancestors Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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Slavery and conquering is from all times. The Egyptians had slaves, the Greecs, the Romans, the Huns, etc. We ALL have brutal histories, the only thing needed is to go a lttle bit more back in times. The Ottomanes made an empire by conquering others, including Egypt. So, talking about ancestors has no use. Thats what I meant to say with this. And btw, I don't think I have pirate ancestors. I don't know where you get all this bullshit from, and it's even not of your business who I am and who my ancestors were....
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Yes to immigrants with educations and desires to work and integrate.
No to immigrants with the impression that europe floats with milk and honey without y have to work for it - or their 8-10-12 children which is not allowed to attend normal schools out of fear that they will become "too european like".
Have to agree with Tibe on this point
SO I would like to ask what do you think about your colonialist ancestors? Do you sometimes feel sorry as they got all the mines and wealth of today's 3rd world countries?
Just a sincere question.
My sincere answer is that i will not be held responsible for something that happend several of 100 years before my birth! Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: Slavery and conquering is from all times. The Egyptians had slaves, the Greecs, the Romans, the Huns, etc. We ALL have brutal histories, the only thing needed is to go a lttle bit more back in times. The Ottomanes made an empire by conquering others, including Egypt. So, talking about ancestors has no use. Thats what I meant to say with this. And btw, I don't think I have pirate ancestors. I don't know where you get all this bullshit from, and it's even not of your business who I am and who my ancestors were....
But why talking about slavery here though???
Posts: 380 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2009
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Because the colonist ancestors were brought in. I wanted to make clear that every nation has a not-so-nice past, by times. The Greecs, The Romans, the Egyptians, the Huns, the Norseman, the Germans, the Spanish, the English, The Dutch, the French, the Portugese, the Chinese and so on. They all did it or still do it. And at last: why should we feel ashamed of what ancestors have done? I cannot help it. The only thing I can do, is be a good person. And if everyone should do that, then there was no problem...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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My husband (who is Egyptain) would most probably agree with her but that's ok because he is Egyptain, right? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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