posted
Hi I came home from Sharm el sheik yesterday, first time dowm there. I stayed at a very nice hotel in Nama Bay with my boyfriend. The hotel had a delicate looking spa- center and I decided to try one hour of massage. I felt awkward about it when I saw who was going to give me massage; a young quite good looking egyptian. He gave me more than massage, or at least he tried to, I had to stop him from getting in my pents and doing other kinds of more "sexual massage". I am really shocked about this experience. I am from Norway and I never expected this type of unproffesional treatment. It was confusing too, because the guy was very charming and gave me a lot of compliments, and I have to admit I was really charmed by him and have been thinking a lot about him since it happened. He said he used to have a girlfriend from Switzerland and also he told me som BS about how important it was to give massage to erotic spots on the body, to make the best effect of the massage. The next day he come up to me and by boyfriend while we were on the beach, and he asked if I liked the massage and wanted more. How dare he after what he did????? My boyfriend was really angry too as I told him what happened. The whole episode made me quite sad, I felt like he just wanted to use me. At the same time I can't stop thinking about if he just really liked me, was I something special to him? It may sound stupid, but it was something about him that also made me loose my breath a little bit. But- having seen this page and read all the messages about egyptian men, I sadly have to realize that he probably looked at me like a piece of meat.... Or what do you think?? Please give me some answers, they don't have to be long. I am just very confused.
Posts: 6 | From: norway | Registered: Feb 2005
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Hej Krissy, Just keep to your own BF. It sounds really bad a good looking egyptian masseur in Sharm. You will be better off forgetting him, I think you realized it yourself already. Posts: 523 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2004
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Oh krissy why did you not complain to the management and stop this from happening again to another woman. Could you not E'mail or fax them now. Don't you see that basically you have been assulted no wonder you feel confused. Just be absolutely sure in your mind it meant nothing to him. Things like this just have to be reported you would not put up with it in your own country so don't ever in Egypt.
To anyone else out there looking for a professional massage I would say never never go to an Egyptian man. It is not right in their religion to touch a woamn in this way and in any case few have the right sort of training. The better hotels contract in European staff because of this very problem.
You really should name and shame. It is disrespectful for a Muslim Egyptian Man to talk to a woman other than his wife let alone give massages to another woman. You should still report this. It is a pity you did not have the courage to do it at the time. A similar thing happened in Luxor, but at a hairdresser's would you believe. The guy was carted off and did not return to that job.
Come on girl, put the word out and stop this pervert from doing it to someone else. You are lucky you have an understanding boyfriend. LOL
posted
Ladies, let's not get so americanly sexually harrassed, please. A woman's body us one of nature's wonders, a real beauty to behold. No wonder some poor less experienced male species just subdue to its call. I am not saying anyone should be allowed anything he/she wishes, unless both wish it, but nature certainly did not set rules or borders to pleasure, we humans have done that ourselves (have no idea, why, actually). Nothing about it can't be any more disgusting than the person in question might be (and they come in all shapes and sizes). It is simply human nature calling, sometimes answered, sometimes not. Peace!
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Ladies, let's not get so americanly sexually harrassed, please. A woman's body us one of nature's wonders, a real beauty to behold. No wonder some poor less experienced male species just subdue to its call. I am not saying anyone should be allowed anything he/she wishes, unless both wish it, but nature certainly did not set rules or borders to pleasure, we humans have done that ourselves (have no idea, why, actually). Nothing about it can't be any more disgusting than the person in question might be (and they come in all shapes and sizes). It is simply human nature calling, sometimes answered, sometimes not. Peace!
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NEVERMIND, Get real!!!'This girl went for a MASSAGE... She was ASSAULTED!!! Not Misenterpreted.... Assaulted!! These guys don't get 'carried away'.. he knew exactly what he was doing! He needed his face slapped!!! Krissy.... don't start getting all romantic on this... this guy was prostituting himself...was probably after a big bonus!! he needs to be reported to the hotel!!!
[This message has been edited by Samia (edited 21 February 2005).]
posted
Originally posted by Samia: NEVERMIND, Get real!!!
hmm... am I not pretty close to?
This girl went for a MASSAGE... She was ASSAULTED!!! Not Misenterpreted....
hmm... I understand she was loved.. with hands . We humans never touch what we do not like or what gives us bad feelings, right?
These guys don't get 'carried away'.. he knew exactly what he was doing!
Basically, he was doing her good... :P, no seriously it is good to get aroused, it enlivens your blood circulation, and from health point of view it is not important who does it.
He needed his face slapped!!!
That i maybe even agree, too, but only because we have these unfathomable silly rules that tell us to do that. No other reason to slap a person who is essentially doing a good thing. Now that is what I call losing touch with reality for us, humans.
he needs to be reported to the hotel!!!
Oh, probably, but again, what a shame, that we happen to think so
(no hard feelings sami, please, am just trying some out-of-the-box thinking here)
posted
Oh, and i almost forgot... Can we all, I mean the interested ones, get the name of the hotel, pliiz B) Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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Krissy, hva er det som gjّr at du tror at han likte deg??? for guds skyld det hele skjedde under en sه kort opphold over massasje benken! det er ingen grunn for ه tenke noe annet enn at han rett og slett skulle fه et stykke av kaka! sهnn er det med egyptiske men stortsett, sوrlig nهr det gjelder hvite og blonde turister!
posted
i slapped a man coz he tried to kiss me only,i dont know how u catched yourelf to make worse for smth like this even! maybe the truth is that u liked it,even u say it yourself! By the way,forget!You are surely nothing serious at all for him,just another tourist who can touch her,and even f... her if she is more easy! Posts: 1134 | From: NoNe oF uR BuSiNeS | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hi again thanks for all the responses. I have written an email to the hotel and I have called the travel agency, they said they would contact the hotel about it. It feels good to stand up for my self....
Posts: 6 | From: norway | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Really well done krissy for sending that Email and for naming him here. I have always thought of that as being a very respectable hotel but I feel sure they will take serious action.
Can't say where or with whom, but I deal with many hotel complaints. This is not one of 'my' hotels. I would be very interested to hear how the hotel responds to you.
Congratulations on having the courage to follow it up.
Sonomod, I absolutely agree with what you said. Good for you I don't think you will be tackled if some of these guys read your response.
I feel a lot better about it now, just regret that I didn't tell him to ... off when it happened! Haven't heard anything from the hotel yet. I found the hotel's email address on the internet, I hope it will be read by the right persons and not just some manchauvinist ho decides to but in the junk (there were almost only men working at the hotel.) Thanks to everybody here for support.
I wouldn't mind seeing a male massageur (or what you call it in english)in Norway after this as I think the chances of the same thing happening here is very slim. I got the impression that the Egypt guy must have done this many times and that he was used to "willing" women, at least I don't know where he got his confidence from. I realize he was trying to manipulate me, trying to make me want him as much as possible. At first I thought something like "ok this is unusual but maybe the egyptians are more pyshical then we're used to up north", but when he suddenly tried to take my underwear off and touch my breast, I told him to stop. He did but tried to kiss me a few minutes later (not a real try but hi put his mouth only a centimeter away from my face, as he wanted me to take the first move.) Just unbelivable!!!
posted
It is getting to sound moire and more like good film scenario or something, you know "The taming of the untameable" or something, a fiery arab trying to tame some strong nordic female blood :). I guess it simply about his ego enjoying that women turn into mush between his hands. Men all do enjoy the ego thing, to be conquerors and winners, they just choose different playgrounds. So it leaves any female even 2 opportunities, both nice: (1) to enjoy the taming game (and maybe go try tame him instead and see him going all mushy, ah?) ; (2) still, to happily enjoy all the skills nicely offered to you. This latter will demand that you do not think too highly of his (or any male's) opinion of you, which is a bit degrading for the male sex but I believe they will survive. The way of us, women, eventually is to do what is good for us, and think less of the standards men have trained us to follow and believe in. Because otherwise we too often just do what is good for men, and bow to their opinion of us. Can't we have an own opinion of ourselves and what is good for us, and stick to it.
But the story does offer a good scenario :). I hope you can remember it with a slight chuckle, dear krissy. Myself I kind of love dominant male characters, though, must be the case of modern men all being so mushy around here...
posted
P.S. Forgot to add: they should probably relocate him to Alf Leila.. etc., and label the service more informatively. Does not fit in under "relaxation" or "spa" thing, I think :))) but under "entertainment"...? well, maybe :)))
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Originally posted by Samia: NEVERMIND, Get real!!!
hmm... am I not pretty close to?
This girl went for a MASSAGE... She was ASSAULTED!!! Not Misenterpreted....
hmm... I understand she was loved.. with hands . We humans never touch what we do not like or what gives us bad feelings, right?
These guys don't get 'carried away'.. he knew exactly what he was doing!
Basically, he was doing her good... :P, no seriously it is good to get aroused, it enlivens your blood circulation, and from health point of view it is not important who does it.
He needed his face slapped!!!
That i maybe even agree, too, but only because we have these unfathomable silly rules that tell us to do that. No other reason to slap a person who is essentially doing a good thing. Now that is what I call losing touch with reality for us, humans.
he needs to be reported to the hotel!!!
Oh, probably, but again, what a shame, that we happen to think so
(no hard feelings sami, please, am just trying some out-of-the-box thinking here)
dude, or lady. Have u ever been charged with sexual harassment?
Posts: 22 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
The sensual massage does sound pretty scary! However, I have received massages here in the states, but by women, and that was uncomfortable enough! If a man walked in the room, I would politely stand up and excuse myself promptly!
This is all scary, best bet, get married & have your husband do the massaging.. lol. Take care.
Posts: 1706 | From: Dallas, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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samia i was referring to "nevermind." He/she seems to be defending a massuer who used his job to make sexual passes at a woman, in a manner that's too disgusting for words...even if u have mental problems.
I agree with your post on this thread. The masseur should be reported to the hotel and the police. COULD U TELL ME WHAT WOULD AN EGYPTIAN WOMAN"S REACTION BE IF SHE WAS IN KRISSY"S PLACE?
Posts: 22 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2005
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The masseur wouldn't do it to an Egyptian woman!! I am a muslim woman... if this happened with me,(which it woulldn't, I hate massages and I definitely wouldn't go to aman for one!!)this guy would be coming out with a seriously bleeding nose!!! But I agree.. Neverminds answer is just giving the impression a lot of Egyptian guys have already, that European women are cheap meat!!! Posts: 4238 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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but closer to the truth is that i find it necessary that women rise rise rise their self-esteem until they feel at least equal! no small dirty mind s hands can dirty the pure holy me, while he might get the holy experience required for his soul, and a lasting image to haunt him for many days still to come...
feel your power and stand strong.. AND do exactly what is good for YOU does not have to sound so tooth-to-tooth, but for the sake of clarity here.
Our bodies are the source of power, not something to be ashamed of, sisters, so be forgiving to the ones who subdue to it
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: oh sweet indulgence in words, sami...
while he might get the holy experience required for his soul, and a lasting image to haunt him for many days still to come...
Our bodies are the source of power, not something to be ashamed of, sisters, so be forgiving to the ones who subdue to it
nevermind, would u put your post in simple english ? i ain't being sarcastic. u r actually justifying the massuer? saying that the massuer in question is not all that bad, because he simply "subdued" to her body? her "source of power" ?
u said: "so be forgiving to the ones who subdue to it." Do u mean: it is okay for a guy to start touching a woman simply because he has an urge? it is not his fault, but he is simply "subduing" to yr body? do u have an example other the one on this thread?
[This message has been edited by egyptguy (edited 23 February 2005).]
posted
Oh, egyptguy but why do you make love to a woman? because it is the "proper" thing to do? because religion tells you so (islam actually has many darling rules about pleasing a woman so i do not mind at all)? or because she drives you mad with her sights and movements and you feel a blinding desire.. aso aso
I personally would prefer the last to the knowledge that my dear partner or husband is simply performing the "proper" thing, you know, out of pure sense of responsibility
posted
nevermind, between a man and wife is totally different to having someone touch you up during a massage because he cant keep his hands to himself, nothing islamic about that!!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
so licenced sex,i.e. the one that you have informed your government about, is on some reasons more "pure" than unlicenced sex, i.e. if your government does not know about that. So sex is a kind of government thing? an administrative ritual or something?
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nevermind: so licenced sex,i.e. the one that you have informed your government about, is on some reasons more "pure" than unlicenced sex, i.e. if your government does not know about that. So sex is a kind of government thing? an administrative ritual or something?
no, it's a consentual thing. she was paying him for a service - a massage. he overstepped his boundary by suggesting sex and acting inappropriately without any provocation from her.
what the hell is wrong with you? next you'll be telling us rapists can't "help" themselves when they attack 60 year old grandmothers.
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: next you'll be telling us rapists can't "help" themselves when they attack 60 year old grandmothers.
Rapists don't ask and that's the difference. Forcing makes the difference, in any area of human interaction, BTW.
Why i am spending time here with this subject is because of 2 alarming tendencies: (1) women do not think or care of themselves, we care of men (as a rule), while men think & care of themselves (as rule).
When the girl was approached with suggestions, what was her first thought? Was it: hmm.. will it be good for me? I bet not. It was: oh, what will he think of me, and secondly, oh, what will my boyfriend think. What will 2 men think! then only (maybe) her. As if what a male person thinks of us plays any role! Their opinion doesn't make us (but it does now becaue we believe so). The guy ther never even considered the gir'ls opinion because he simply didn't care of her opinion, it was insignificant to him if the girl would think he is a rascal so what, it's just a girl's thinking. Then why do we, women, lay so much importance to what guys (ex-cu-se me-e) think of us. Who are they to be allowed to think anything at all?
Why do we always think of all sexual encounters that men will profit from these, why do not we choose to profit from these because clearly the sexual contentedness and ability to derive pleasure is one reason that makes men so high-opinioned of themselves. Time to take some of it back, ladies.
And boyfriends are not for massages, I do believe a few strategic muscles are really not the ultimate virtue of male species. Physical pleasure can be given to us by anyone pressing the correct nereve endings and we should really stop thinking this is the ultimate intimacy between two persons. it is mostly just most convenient to have one sex partner per time, because of all complications, but a human can really have numerous very satisfying sexual partners, while it is really really difficult to find soul intimacy and a soul partner, so this I think the most important loyalty factor - not physical loyalty but loyalty of soul. Sharing the secrets, the dreams, the deepest beliefs, or keeping them to yourself, that makes the decisive difference for real intimacy.
(2) human part of interaction is rapidly disappearing in all kinds of service encounters. the services are all being reglemented by authorities to a point where you enter them as if you'd enter an automate that will perform everything that is described on its label, then spit you out at the other end, no emotions, no extras, no influence of the sharm and abilities of your own person or that of the service provides playing any role here the way it was in the business in the old times--you wanted good service, you needed to act nice. Now you just act the way you please but still expect the service provider be nice to you. The system is providing us with excuse to be worse humans... no this cannot be positive tendency in the long run.
Esp. the EU is now strongly going in that slippery direction. We are close to a point where a customer marches in, not saying a word, and expects the service provider launch the announced service (probably defined by a number combination in the service menu, just point with your finger) automatically, perform it to the letter or the way customer has interpreted your offer (or a complaint will result) then pay and march out. The customer will not need to exercise any personality in trying to guarantee the quality of service and trying to get a personally tailored service, because the system is doing it for him/her. And we do not get any tailored or personal services any more, soon, we'll get mass produced industrial services the way we get hamburgers at McDonalds. No old charming ways of walking into a workshop, discussing your needs, letting yourself be reconvinced maybe because the professional knows best, then getting something one-of-a-time, exactly for you.
The result?? Strong and strengthening systems, weak and weakening personalities who cannot stand up for themselves. E.g. the norwegian girl here could have simply slapped the man or told him to change his behaviour PRONTO! thus actually standing up for herself, behaving like a strong person. But she is already a person weakened by strong consumer protection systems (and ideology) thus she simply files a complaint, letting the system go to war with the guy. An Orwell's 1984 in its makings..
(sorry to the heroine here, just used it for the illustration)
أخبار أخرى المجلس التشريعي الفلسطيني يقر حكومة قريع
إيران ترفض مشاركة واشنطن في المحادثات النووية
سوريا "سوف تنسحب من لبنان"
رئيس وزراء الصومال في المنفى يتجه إلى الصومال
وايت قال إن "الأشباح" جزء من الماضي قال الرهينة السابق تيري وايت لدى وصوله إلى بيروت التي اختطف فيها قبل سنوات إنه لا يشعر بأي خوف من كونه في لبنان لأول مرة منذ تحريره من الأسر عام 1992.
وكان وايت يعمل كمبعوث أسقف كانتربري الخاص، واحتجز في بيروت على يد جماعة حزب الله لمدة خمس سنوات.
وقال وايت في تصريح لـ جي أم تي في: "اعتقدت أنني قد أشعر ببعض الخوف حين أصل، لكن هذا لم يحدث."
وأضاف: "لو كانت هناك أشباح فقد واجهناها وتعاملنا معها منذ سنوات."
وسوف يلتقي وايت أثناء زيارته بصغار يستفيدون من برنامجY-Care الذي يعمل لحسابه، ويساهم في الاستعدادات الجارية للاحتفال بمرور 20 سنة على إنشاء المنظمة.
مستبعد وقد بدأت مأساة وايت عام 1987 حين احتجز بينما كان يحاول التفاوض نيابة عن أسقف كانتربري لإطلاق سراح رهائن.
وقضى معظم سنوات احتجازه في حجز انفرادي مظلم وهو مقيد إلى حائط.
وقال وايت إن "لبنان تغير كثيرا منذ كنت هناك، لدي ذكريات عن مدينة محطمة، أرى أنه بني الآن".
ولدى سؤاله عن شعوره لو التقى بالأشخاص الذين أخذوه رهينة، قال وايت إن ذلك "مستبعد كثيرا".
وأضاف: "أعرف أن الأمريكيين طرحوا مكافأة قدرها مليون دولار لمن يأتي بهم، ولا أعتقد أنهم سيأتون للقائي طالما بقيت المكافأة."
ثم استدرك: "لكنني لا أمانع في الالتقاء بهم، سيكون من المشوق رؤيتهم بعد هذه السنين."
ارسل هذا الموضوع لصديق نسخة سهلة الطبع
إقرأ ايضا في الشرق الأوسط
اخترالمجلس التشريعي الفلسطيني يقر حكومة قريعإيران ترفض مشاركة واشنطن في المحادثات النوويةسوريا "سوف تنسحب من لبنان"رئيس وزراء الصومال في المنفى يتجه إلى الصومالانفجار مستودع للأسلحة في جنوب السودانإدانة عسكريين بريطانيين بإساءة معاملة سجناء عراقيينمقتل 10 في انفجار سيارة ملغومة في تكريتكرامي مستعد للاستقالة بشروطالسعودية ستعلن أسماء المشتبه في تورطهم بهجمات إرهابيةالسجن14 عاما لصحفي إيراني من كتاب الإنترنتزيباري: أي هجوم على سوريا أو إيران سيؤثر سلبا على بغدادالقوات الأمريكية تشن هجمات على الأنبارالائتلاف العراقي الموحد يرشح الجعفري لرئاسة الحكومةعلاوي يشكل جبهة معارضة في العراقإسرائيل ترحب بالسفراء العرب الجددمنظمة دولية تتهم مصر بتعذيب المعتقليناتهام رجل بـ"التآمر لقتل بوش"سورية تؤيد إجراء تحقيق في اغتيال الحريريمحمد عاصم سفيرا جديدا لمصر في إسرائيلالسعودية تحذر من الإسراع باتهام سورية باغتيال الحريريبوش: الناتو يوافق على إرسال قوات إلى العراقالمئات يتظاهرون في القاهرة ضد مبارك
posted
nevermind, no idea what you on about and whats governments got to do with it? ...............confused.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I've sent a mail to the management of the hotel asking them to purge their hotel and egypt of such f... kind of Stupid Guys . we can't deny that we love women BUT we don't assulate them and i won't allow to my self to watch them destroying egypt's tourism . thank you very my dear k. and i'm so so sorry for you . then how could you think that it might be love ? and even if it is ! are not you with a man ? then in such case not the first thing you do is to tell your BF .and when ? after you Enjoyed up the F.. Guy ? . anyway seems that you have no enough experience . but this kind of people is not only in egypt , it's everywhere , even he was calm but other guys FORCE women for their bodies !
Posts: 43 | From: HURGHADA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lifetimeenjoy: even he was calm but other guys FORCE women for their bodies !
Hmm... u know when you live long enough up north here where u are FORCED to force yourself on men if you ever want to have any partnership at all, u might actually enjoy the strong arab will.
No kind of will up here, men just living like cabbages, like sometime rain happens to them and sometimes sun .. and sometimes, rarely, a woman.. My true word!
posted
Hey , Hey , Hey The Hotel managment has sent me a mail Read it /
Dear Mr. Sherif,
Have a good day from Novotel Sharm El sheikh,
Thank you very much for your below e-mail concerning the Spa complaint, please we need the guest name and the date of her stay in the hotel in order to investigate and take the necessary action regarding this matter.
Please provide us with this details as soon as you can, and please advise how did you get this complaints??
Thank you and best regards,
Nihal El Maghraby Executive Secretary Novotel Sharm El Sheikh h1715@accor.com please give me these data dear to send it to them as soon as possible .
posted
hey you Krissy ! don't put me in such a Position didn't you read what i've done ??? send me the Required details please the hotel is gonna act as soon as they make sure !!!
Posts: 43 | From: HURGHADA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
[nevermind, for the life of me i cannot fully understand what u r saying But please answer:
1. would u have enjoyed being in Krissy's place?? i.e. being sexually touched by a masseur?
2. do u find uninvited physical contact by a man exciting? e.g. how about being hit on by a taxi driver? would u like a cab driver to put his hand on u affectionately while taking u to yr destination?
3. u say u r up north. where? please be straight FRANK
Posts: 22 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by lifetimeenjoy: hey you Krissy ! don't put me in such a Position didn't you read what i've done ??? send me the Required details please the hotel is gonna act as soon as they make sure !!!
Lifetimeenjoy, with all due regard I think you have a problem here, imagining you are set to solve other people's problems for them, playing a kind of god for them. U see, this is exactly the kind of thinking that the US practices in the world--setting them to be the sole ones who know what is good or bad, what should be done, and finally, forcing their solution on others. It is part of respect to another human being that you let him/her take care of own life him/herself. If Krissy wishes to disagree here, it's up to her of course, but this is how it works in general among people otherwise--know the limits and do not intrude in another's business of living.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Lifetimeenjoy, with all due regard I think you have a problem here, imagining you are set to solve other people's problems for them, playing a kind of god for them. U see, this is exactly the kind of thinking that the US practices in the world--setting them to be the sole ones who know what is good or bad, what should be done, and finally, forcing their solution on others. It is part of respect to another human being that you let him/her take care of own life him/herself. If Krissy wishes to disagree here, it's up to her of course, but this is how it works in general among people otherwise--know the limits and do not intrude in another's business of living.
Happy beginnning of March, everyone!
lifetimejoy didn't seem to me like someone who is trying to run someone's else business but his motivation as he himself said was " i won't allow to my self to watch them destroying egypt's tourism " that goes with the famous quote "‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’", History teach this.
quote:Originally posted by Troubles101: ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’", History teach this.
..which is exactly what keeps them good. Now we need to get the other half (evil one) also do nothing, instead of supporting the evil philosophy of INTRUDING or any other way of forcing oneself on others. But good try, Troubles :)
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Now we need to get the other half (evil one) also do nothing, ...
Excuse me how do you get the other half doing nothing ?
You say "no we need to" , excuse me but this statment itself puts you in the same box with lifetimejoy.
As for the good half, Do you think they shouldn't speak up when seeing someone's rights are being abused ? is that what the victim needs or the abuser?
Your understanding of freedom and tolerance seems very immature and contradicting to me
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
hmm... am I not pretty close to?
. We humans never touch what we do not like or what gives us bad feelings, right?
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