quote:Originally posted by Left.Side.Lying.State.Of.Mind: I'm tired of it.
And you'll be tired for a long time. There is alot of immense give and take in cross-culture parenting.
It takes a long time to see what the benefits are, because these benefits don't jump out in your face and scream "hey look this is benefital".
Sometimes giving in on a big thing in the beginning allow you to make demands in the future with alot less "debate".
Getting on board in the beginning will make you less of a pirate later on. Instead of coasting along, trailing behind a clippership in a dingy doesn't quite make you a force to be recogned with. I rather be second in command and wait for the captian to get nerved in puberty and hand over command at that point. Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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I theoretically know what the benefits to having an *international* kid will be, but who knows what real life will bring? My parents have already had multiple heart attacks over the fact my child will have dual citizenship, God willing. (Why isn't American citizenship good enough for your kid?)
But I agree with my husband, who wants to give his children the best education/life experiences possible so that they can be successful in either the U.S., Egypt, or both. Figuring out how to do this will definitely be an interesting journey.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No newcomer, this isn't your first username and I did keep half of what shumza had deleted for you, ExpatinCAI, and others.
but because those threads weren't duplicated by internetarchive.org or another username that hates me; I can't repost without appearing uncredible.
Now what what was my first username, again, please remind me...so I guess that would that have been before 2002...and when was it that you joined ES and when was it that shumza was here? Do please show all those threads where I supposedly gave you all those details of my personal life, if you can really find them that is...I'd love to see them
Yet you know very well I don't have a second person that most Orfi wives or what is other known as "Retirement Bitches" will accept as credible so I can't share those threads.
ES has been around since 1998.
You have a perfound dislike for Egyptian women and naturally you aren't handling this co-wife thing very well. Most older second wives don't!
Sonomod...either put up or shut up! Unless you have any evidence to back up what you are saying, which I know you don't because it's not true...I have never written (in this username or any other) what you are claiming that I have, and why would I am not an older second wife (and if I was it would be none of your business, nor are you be in any position to judge mine or anyone else's life choices)!...I suggest that the latter option is preferable.
The burden of proof is on the accuser and you don't have any...and the longer you carry on all these stupid accusations the more you lose any possible credibility that you may once have had.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: Actually its not so bothersome. The chance that Corv would actually marry a Foreigner is slim to none.
When he went off about it, he was probably high, and probably in shock over how graphic western sex is. I don't think he could actually handle the sexual habits of a foreign woman and thats shock probably keeps him off these boards. Unless he is high.
You would think the shock of many Egyptian traditions customs would keep foreign women at bay, but it doesn't. It appears as if they don't have alot of options outside of these online/vacation relationships. Foreign women willing to put up with anything.
Sex anywhere is graphic because simply it's sex & that's the way it should be, you know. If Corv was shocked by it then it's him....... I understand that some Egyptians are not comfortable with their bodies that they dont get totally naked or that some couples are so religious that they do what they have to do while partly clothed or "god knows", maybe fully clothed but didnt that happen in europe in the middle ages & still happens in different parts of the world too?........ it is not only islamic.
It is also an individual/ couple thing & can not be something an entire nation does..... like you cant say that Egyptinas dont do oral sex because some do.
Forgot to mention, but i dont remember where I heard it happens but some women go so far as cover their faces during sex....... & it has nothing to do with islam
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too? Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
I Have!!! you have to be 76 if you are a day Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
I'm guessing she must have seen mine too, how else would she have got it so spot on that I'm an Egyptian male with a bone to pick? I don't know how she does it? Posts: 463 | From: Other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
I'm guessing she must have seen mine too, how else would she have got it so spot on that I'm an Egyptian male with a bone to pick? I don't know how she does it?
has your husband found out about this yet? Didnt he notice you were male?
Ahhh must be due to the 'hole in the sheet' thing Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: a guy in a gallibiya with its hem neatly tucked in his teeth.
ROFL
Dont know how she knew that! I never posted a pic thats for sure! But at least thats flesh to flesh and there isnt any need for holes in sheets! Nor is there any need to look at a mouthful of yellow and rotting teeth! Posts: 33 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Lol Ayisha, we may have to make him provide the proof!
Proof always available. Previously you may have been right about there being no Bronzed Adonis' in Nottingham but I moved here a couple of weeks ago............
BA x
Posts: 40 | From: Nottingham | Registered: Nov 2006
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You got it for me leave a message on my phone she call me She cry alot of tears nuh like a real salami Listen up now shorty wants me to meet her mommy From the first time she saw me Yo I give give some a write love letter When I'm around everyting seem betta Woman fi get romance everytime Let chill run dung dem spine tink yuh mind
Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom
She lose it fi real when mi touch har touch har Tek it real slow nah rush har rush har Tonight mi a go stone and chiney brush har Neva had it like this some well waan buss har Touched her and she lusted I can see it on her face She's shakin I can feel it when she is in my embrace, she seh
Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom
Verse 2: Baby Cham Zoom, zoom, zoom zoom, zoom Rudeboy lovin mi give har mek a rod go Boom, boom, boom boom, boom Messin around and makin out in di car WOO!!! Buy har gifts di odda day just because My game so tight it's like I ain't got no flaws When clubbin and I paid for har whole entourage And my sweetheart plus I give a mean foot massage Valentines upon us we wine under the moon I lay pedals from the front door leading to the bedroom, she cry
Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom
My love is perculating, cause I'm anticipating Your lovin we be sharing, you got me, ha, ha
She hit mi wicked like cricket cricket When she lose har hips and flick it flick it She seh she love when she and di rudeboy kick it Mek she scream all night and mi have har ticket Di play around ting homegirl nah in it Seen alot of guys tryin but guess who win it She love di marathon she nuh like one minute She waan slow motion till she reach har limit Touched her and she lusted I can see it on her face She's shakin I can feel it when she is in my embrace, she seh
Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom
Feelin weak, in my knees, lost my mind, baby please No control, oooh fire with my baby give me stuff like this Feelin weak, in my knees, lost my mind, baby please No control, oooh fire with my baby give me stuff like this (She Cry)
Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom Boy you make my heart go boom boom boom You know when you get me hot it go boom boom boom When you touch me like that it go boom boom boom You show when you hit the spot it go boom boom boom
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Lol Ayisha, we may have to make him provide the proof!
Proof always available. Previously you may have been right about there being no Bronzed Adonis' in Nottingham but I moved here a couple of weeks ago............
BA x
well that explains things then you must be the first and only one.
I will have to make enquiries through those who can sniff out a Bronzed Adonis there and see what I can come up with Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Black and beautiful Pink is fruitful G-string wid chains ta pull Show off cute girl Put up your hand and take hold your bull Silver wear you no want no wool Tell your man a when your cups are full Now Show Off
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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chimps I cant make out what song this is? is it a song?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Lol Ayisha, we may have to make him provide the proof!
Proof always available. Previously you may have been right about there being no Bronzed Adonis' in Nottingham but I moved here a couple of weeks ago............
BA x
well that explains things then you must be the first and only one.
I will have to make enquiries through those who can sniff out a Bronzed Adonis there and see what I can come up with
Point them my way - always happy to entertain.....
Posts: 40 | From: Nottingham | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shareen: Lol Ayisha, we may have to make him provide the proof!
Proof always available. Previously you may have been right about there being no Bronzed Adonis' in Nottingham but I moved here a couple of weeks ago............
BA x
well that explains things then you must be the first and only one.
I will have to make enquiries through those who can sniff out a Bronzed Adonis there and see what I can come up with
Point them my way - always happy to entertain.....
OK i have reports back from my 'sniffer' agents "slightly bronzed adonis last seen in town centre standing under the Christmas lights hoping to top-up a tan" could that be you?
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: Actually its not so bothersome. The chance that Corv would actually marry a Foreigner is slim to none.
When he went off about it, he was probably high, and probably in shock over how graphic western sex is. I don't think he could actually handle the sexual habits of a foreign woman and thats shock probably keeps him off these boards. Unless he is high.
You would think the shock of many Egyptian traditions customs would keep foreign women at bay, but it doesn't. It appears as if they don't have alot of options outside of these online/vacation relationships. Foreign women willing to put up with anything.
"The medieval Church was obsessed with sex to a quite painful degree. Sexual issues dominated its thinking in a manner which we should regard as entirely pathological. It is hardly too much to say that the ideal which it held out to Christians was primarily a sexual ideal.
This ideal was a highly consistent one and was embodied in a most elaborate code of regulations. The Christian code was based, quite simply, upon the conviction that the sexual act was to be avoided like the plague, except for the bare minimum necessary to keep the race in existence. Even when performed for this purpose it remained a regrettable necessity. Those who could were exhorted to avoid it entirely, even if married. For those incapable of such heroic self-denial there was a great spider's web of regulations whose over-riding purpose was to make the sexual act as joyless as possible and to restrict its performance to the minimum - that is, to restrict it exclusively to the function of procreation. It was not actually the sexual act which was damnable, but the pleasure derived from it - and this pleasure remained damnable even when the act was performed for the purpose of procreation, a notion which reached its crudest expression with the invention of the chemise carouse, a sort of heavy nightshirt, with a suitably placed hole, through which a husband could impregnate his wife while avoiding any other contact .153 The belief that even within marriages the sexual act should not be performed for pleasure, still persists to the present day, more especially in the Catholic Church, where it remains official doctrine; it was publicly reasserted by the Popes once again, while this book was being written."
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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The catholic church love guilt. The more guilt and shame, the hotter the sex! They have led the way on sexual inhibition for centuries. Got to give them credit, where credit is due. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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My mom always said to me that she'd rather sit on the couch with a good book and a hot cup of tea than have sex. lol.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: [QB] My mom always said to me that she'd rather sit on the couch with a good book and a hot cup of tea than have sex. lol.
she must have been missing alot Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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OK i have reports back from my 'sniffer' agents "slightly bronzed adonis last seen in town centre standing under the Christmas lights hoping to top-up a tan" could that be you?
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Nope not me, your Honour. I've been on the sunbed all evening!
BA x
Posts: 40 | From: Nottingham | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bronzed Adonis: OK i have reports back from my 'sniffer' agents "slightly bronzed adonis last seen in town centre standing under the Christmas lights hoping to top-up a tan" could that be you?
Nope not me, your Honour. I've been on the sunbed all evening!
Are you one of these men that use to walk around with a faky tan all year? Also colour your hair???
BA x [/QB][/QUOTE]
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bronzed Adonis: OK i have reports back from my 'sniffer' agents "slightly bronzed adonis last seen in town centre standing under the Christmas lights hoping to top-up a tan" could that be you?
Nope not me, your Honour. I've been on the sunbed all evening!
BA x [/QB][/QUOTE]
You sure? Cos my mate was topping up too, and there were definitely no bronzed adonis's there! You wouldnt have been anywhere near Arnold would you? My sis said she saw something vaguely resembling bronzed....... but it wasn't quite Adonis
Posts: 1196 | From: www.spiritofthenile.com | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
No I haven't seen your picture. Why do you ask?
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: Actually its not so bothersome. The chance that Corv would actually marry a Foreigner is slim to none.
When he went off about it, he was probably high, and probably in shock over how graphic western sex is. I don't think he could actually handle the sexual habits of a foreign woman and thats shock probably keeps him off these boards. Unless he is high.
You would think the shock of many Egyptian traditions customs would keep foreign women at bay, but it doesn't. It appears as if they don't have alot of options outside of these online/vacation relationships. Foreign women willing to put up with anything.
"The medieval Church was obsessed with sex to a quite painful degree. Sexual issues dominated its thinking in a manner which we should regard as entirely pathological. It is hardly too much to say that the ideal which it held out to Christians was primarily a sexual ideal.
This ideal was a highly consistent one and was embodied in a most elaborate code of regulations. The Christian code was based, quite simply, upon the conviction that the sexual act was to be avoided like the plague, except for the bare minimum necessary to keep the race in existence. Even when performed for this purpose it remained a regrettable necessity. Those who could were exhorted to avoid it entirely, even if married. For those incapable of such heroic self-denial there was a great spider's web of regulations whose over-riding purpose was to make the sexual act as joyless as possible and to restrict its performance to the minimum - that is, to restrict it exclusively to the function of procreation. It was not actually the sexual act which was damnable, but the pleasure derived from it - and this pleasure remained damnable even when the act was performed for the purpose of procreation, a notion which reached its crudest expression with the invention of the chemise carouse, a sort of heavy nightshirt, with a suitably placed hole, through which a husband could impregnate his wife while avoiding any other contact .153 The belief that even within marriages the sexual act should not be performed for pleasure, still persists to the present day, more especially in the Catholic Church, where it remains official doctrine; it was publicly reasserted by the Popes once again, while this book was being written."
never heard or read that before, but I don't have any European in me. Its all Norsk.
No if you went and read the two threads I posted then you'd understand that this practice originates as Hebrew custom.
Since I don't know any Americans, Canadians or Europeans who **** through a hole in a sheet or night shirt; that must mean the Hebrew tradition has phased out. But it hasn't phased out in the Middle East.
Go back and read the threads.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: never heard or read that before, but I don't have any European in me. Its all Norsk.
No if you went and read the two threads I posted then you'd understand that this practice originates as Hebrew custom.
Since I don't know any Americans, Canadians or Europeans who **** through a hole in a sheet or night shirt; that must mean the Hebrew tradition has phased out. But it hasn't phased out in the Middle East.
Go back and read the threads.
I read the thread several times & I know what I am talking about
You misinterpreted the intention of my post, it has nothing to do with you & it was not an attack on you
My point is...... it's not an islamic practice & I was giving an example of where it USED to happen (medival times)........ & it still happens in different parts of the world, & not just a jewish tradition, have you seen the movie "Like water for chocolate"? it's a maxican movie & you will see a scene like that..... I havent seen it yet but that scene was quite famous
I dont know anyone in Egypt who does that through a hole either
Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: never heard or read that before, but I don't have any European in me. Its all Norsk.
No if you went and read the two threads I posted then you'd understand that this practice originates as Hebrew custom.
Since I don't know any Americans, Canadians or Europeans who **** through a hole in a sheet or night shirt; that must mean the Hebrew tradition has phased out. But it hasn't phased out in the Middle East.
Go back and read the threads.
I read the thread several times & I know what I am talking about
You misinterpreted the intention of my post, it has nothing to do with you & it was not an attack on you
My point is...... it's not an islamic practice & I was giving an example of where it USED to happen (medival times)........ & it still happens in different parts of the world, & not just a jewish tradition, have you seen the movie "Like water for chocolate"? it's a maxican movie & you will see a scene like that..... I havent seen it yet but that scene was quite famous
I dont know anyone in Egypt who does that through a hole either
CAT, go back and quote me where I said it was an Islamic practice.
I dare you.
Yeah I saw that movie, don't remember it at all; the sex scenes were so, well, fake.
It might've been used in medieval times, within a select population. But from the medieval acounts witnessed by Middle Easterns of the Franj, their impressions of European sex mores put the Franj down a few species next to dogs. And yes I am that weird and tripped up that I would find a chronicler who mentioned Franj sex habits on numerous occassions. Even so far as to mention that 3rd or 4th generation Occidentials started immitating Arab marital gender relations.
So from the account you noted above isn't anything like what the Levantine Arabs had witnessed of the occupying Occidental or Franj (French).
You catch my drift?
If you had taken the time to read the threads and read "sacredtext.net" perfumed garden then you will see how the Shaykh Nefwazi describes how Egyptians of his time need to cast off Jewish marital practices.
Edward Lane noted in his two volumes "Customs, Manners of Modern Egyptians" how books like the Perfumed Garden were sold every Friday in front of the Mosque after prays or how peddlers sold these books door to door. Often the authors were Sheiks themselves delivery fatwas books door to door. And these books were the most read genre of their time.
I am sorry to say this, but most westerners don't screw like in th movie, "Chocolate like water". A medieval text isn't how westerners screw today.
Cripes actually when I have had my nightly rest I will go look up the background of this hyperlink you posted on medieval euro sex.
Remember that nuclear phycist/pychologist you had posted before on "narcissm" or something like that.
I hope you didn't buy Gordon Rattray Taylor book. Because I am sure I'll find something on him.
In the meantime before I turn in I'll repost the thread material so you can see it for yourself since you won't open up the hyperlinks.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: CAT, go back and quote me where I said it was an Islamic practice.
I dare you.
Yeah I saw that movie, don't remember it at all; the sex scenes were so, well, fake.
It might've been used in medieval times, within a select population. But from the medieval acounts witnessed by Middle Easterns of the Franj, their impressions of European sex mores put the Franj down a few species next to dogs. And yes I am that weird and tripped up that I would find a chronicler who mentioned Franj sex habits on numerous occassions. Even so far as to mention that 3rd or 4th generation Occidentials started immitating Arab marital gender relations.
So from the account you noted above isn't anything like what the Levantine Arabs had witnessed of the occupying Occidental or Franj (French).
You catch my drift?
If you had taken the time to read the threads and read "sacredtext.net" perfumed garden then you will see how the Shaykh Nefwazi describes how Egyptians of his time need to cast off Jewish marital practices.
Edward Lane noted in his two volumes "Customs, Manners of Modern Egyptians" how books like the Perfumed Garden were sold every Friday in front of the Mosque after prays or how peddlers sold these books door to door. Often the authors were Sheiks themselves delivery fatwas books door to door. And these books were the most read genre of their time.
I am sorry to say this, but most westerners don't screw like in th movie, "Chocolate like water". A medieval text isn't how westerners screw today.
Cripes actually when I have had my nightly rest I will go look up the background of this hyperlink you posted on medieval euro sex.
Remember that nuclear phycist/pychologist you had posted before on "narcissm" or something like that.
I hope you didn't buy Gordon Rattray Taylor book. Because I am sure I'll find something on him.
In the meantime before I turn in I'll repost the thread material so you can see it for yourself since you won't open up the hyperlinks. [/QB]
Cool down lady
It's okay.... no daring or anything like that....... I am learning
will read something until you wake up Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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o strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
By Agence France Presse (AFP)
Monday, January 09, 2006
CAIRO: An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars. According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of the prestigious Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage."
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
Soad Saleh, who heads the women's department of Al-Azhar's Islamic studies faculty, pleaded for "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" and rejected the claim that nudity during intercourse could invalidate a union. During the live televised debate, Islamic scholar Abdel-Moti dismissed the fatwa, saying: "Nothing is prohibited during marital sex, except of course sodomy."
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but they should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested that they cover up with a blanket during sex. - AFP
Now the Quranic passage this has been attributed to, and I did spend some time looking through my notes to find my scribbles on this, along with all those nasty soundvision.com forum print outs: Chapter two: Al-Baqarah 102=
And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon, Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angels) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no one save by Allah's leave. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew.
Now I understand that this brought about alot of distress. I am actually glad at the responses I got.
Now the woman who carries your 'worms' through gastation and gives birth to the man's children cannot do the kind of things that westerners do.
Actually I have had some very juicy conversations with Muslimahs who thought that all westerners make love like porn stars do. Why? Because we don't have the type of sexual practices that married people who are muslim do.
Naturally on an English language forum dedicated to Egypt where most of the members are women who married men half their age are members. This type of experience won't happen. Unless you have his child. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well then there is a fatwa that dispells the practice.
Let me repost some of the excerpts from Nawal al-Saadawi's book "Daughter of Isis" autobiography. So many things in this book helped to explain customs and beliefs that my husband holds dear despite most Egyptians on this forum and other forums have never heard of. I am not surprised, many times I had raised a question of this practice or custom only to be told by Egyptians on these English language Egy-boards that Egyptians are no different from westerners. Its damning to read these books I have read. Sometimes these forums really only keep khawagaas more ignorant. Hurts more than helps!
This is from Fedra of that thread hyperlink I posted above: I had a reform Jewish acquaintance who mentioned that some Orthodox Jews do have sexual intercourse using a sheet with a hole in it. At least she knew someone who did. I also read that such a practice is based on a misreading of the "Kitzur Shulchan Aruch" a poor source for information on mainstream Orthodox opinion on sexual matters and that most consider that to be an incorrect practice without Rabbinic agreement. I am Egyptian and I have never heard that such a practice exists in Egypt. Even if it does exist it is not the norm it is an exception.
And now the excerpts from that book "Daughter of Isis"
Now about that Nawal El-Saadawi autobiography "Daughter of Isis" page 22,
"Her memory stopped all of a suden with her feet, as she came to a halt on the threshold of the bedroom. She could see the yellow brass bed with its four posts and a tall, broad-shouldered man standing upright like one of the posts. She had never seen his face before. From behind the shutters she could glimpse only the back of his thick neck, its shaven with a razor blade, his head surrounded by a turban like that of the Fikki reciting verses from the Qur'an in the cementary for the souls of the dead in exchange for a few dry cakes.
After a moment, she would be lying on the bed in this man's arms, her eyes closed, being impregnated with her first child, without taking off her clothes or opening her eyes, so that she could give birth to that child nine months later, followed by another impregnation before she had time to wean the first, again in the dark of night without taking off her clothes, or pressing on the switch to see the face of the man who climbed over her. So year after year, in the dark of the night, my mother became pregnant ten times, gave birth to nine children, and induced an abortion with the tenth before she had reached the age of thirty, without ever having known that thing which is described as sexual pleasure. Then she died, a young woman, holding my hand in her hand, her childish honey-colored eyes looking at me with astonishment, discovering that, for the first time in her life, she was holding my hand, that her five fingers were folded around it in the same way as my small fingers had clutched her hand when I lay beside her on the bed, the night I was born."
So it is there a fellow Deltan saw the same type of marital relations customs my husband holds to. Possibly ignorantly, but its his custom. And I cannot expect him to change. He is who he is.
Now same book different chapter, actually near the end of the book Nawal's memory takes on a different hue, but her parent's marriage has matured and there are no longer loads of small children in their home, page 271 of "Daughter of Isis"
I used to see them sitting on the veradah, sipping orange or lemon juice as though getting drunk on it, laughing with a laughter that filled every corner of the house. Sometimes they would play cards or backgammon, or chess. My mother always lost and my father would then swell up like a peacock, stretched out his long legs, and begin to remember his heroic mements. The revolution of 1919 always came out first, then when he had graduated with honours from Dar Al-Ouloum, and finally how he had succeeded in marrying my mother despite the obstacles put in his way by her father, Shoukry Bey.
My mother would laugh, toss her golden chestnut hair behind her neck and say: "Do you remember, Sayed, when my late father told you to marry Fahima instead of Zaynab, and you said either Zaynab or nothing?" Then she would laugh softly again and again with that sound like water flowing interruptedly from a delicate porcelain jug. Then she'd ask, 'But why Zaynab, Sayed. Had you ever seen what I looked like?" My father's eyes shone as he followed the contours of her faminine body sitting besides him. 'Where was I going to see you, Zaynab? But my mother Hajja Mabrouka described you to me in detail and sometimes the ear loves before the eye.' At this stage love would have reached a peak, so father and mother would get up and disappear into their room. From behind closed door would come whispers, then a crackling sound from the bed mingled with sounds of laughter, gasps, and long sighs, like sobs and laughter chasing one another.
Now eventhough these married people followed this custom of remaining dressed through sexual intercourse and sex was a chore to impregnate Zaynab, they managed to love each other deeply. All through the book Nawal remarks how deep their love was and how lucky she was a child. That both her parents were devoted to each other as well as the children. It sounds like quite a love story despite remaining dressed through sex!
And the continueal references to Hebrew practices; this is on page 240 same book as above describing Hajja Mabrouka death, a Deltan peasant woman who's own mother or grandmother was from Gaza (Palestine). Hajja Mabrouka is the most heavily cemented character in Nawal's book who espouse so much of the traditionalism that vents from my husband and the women in his family. So many references to Judeo-Christian practice exumes from Hajja Mabrouka.
And now Hajja Mabrouka last words:
And Sittil Hajja went one like that from the moment she woke up at dawn until sun set. She would fall silent for a little while, and we would say, it's over, she's dead, but a moment later she'd come back and recite the verse of Yasseen and talk to Azareen* as though he was standing in front of her: 'Keep away, Azrareen, untill my son gets here, I want to see him before I die, and you'll never take me away, Azrareen, until I've seen my son Al-Sayed. Get up, Fatna, and go see why your brother hasn't got here yet and you, lad, yes you, child, yess you, Na'eema, chase the flies away from your face so that your uncle will say that you are a pretty girl, and a clean one too. And you, Negaya, take the water jar and go fill it from the river because the water in the za'laa is almost finished.'
......'Shoo away from me, Azrareen, my God take you.'..........
.......but Sittil Hajja had make up her mind that one way or another she would not let Azrareen come anywhere near her until she had seen her son.......
*Azrareen means the angel of death. The way illiterate village or town people pronounce 'Israel.'
Eventhough the political issues with the modern republic of Israel continues to boil, Deltans might not recognize these Judeo-Christian tendancies in their customs. And I have heard binladenism Mullahs denounce Egyptians ways as being too "Jewish". Sorry I really couldn't find these comments online, but I do know many Arabs (whether North Africans or Gulf Arabs) who consider Egyptians too "Jewish" in nature. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Get reading CAT, before I dig up some dirt on this Gordon guy.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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"In America, the Creationists have been quick to exploit the deficiencies of the Darwinian explanation. But is there not a third possibility? The answer emerging from recent scientific work is "Yes." "Darwinism," says Gordon Rattray Taylor, "is not so much a theory as a subsection of some theory as yet unformulated."
Nope not me, your Honour. I've been on the sunbed all evening!
Are you one of these men that use to walk around with a faky tan all year? Also colour your hair???
BA x [/QB]
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Tan has faded (it's been a harsh couple of weeks) and no fake colour in this hair!
quote:Originally posted by Shareen: [QUOTE] You sure? Cos my mate was topping up too, and there were definitely no bronzed adonis's there! You wouldnt have been anywhere near Arnold would you? My sis said she saw something vaguely resembling bronzed....... but it wasn't quite Adonis
Nope sorry - my travels took me nowhere near Arnold! And it couldn't have been me if it wasn't Adonis....... Posts: 40 | From: Nottingham | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: [QB] Here's the most telling article:
o strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
By Agence France Presse (AFP)
Monday, January 09, 2006
CAIRO: An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars. According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of the prestigious Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage."
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
Soad Saleh, who heads the women's department of Al-Azhar's Islamic studies faculty, pleaded for "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" and rejected the claim that nudity during intercourse could invalidate a union. During the live televised debate, Islamic scholar Abdel-Moti dismissed the fatwa, saying: "Nothing is prohibited during marital sex, except of course sodomy."
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but they should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested that they cover up with a blanket during sex. - AFP
posted
It isn`t that long ago that issue`s like this were common in Europe.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
And it still is, by elderly people. By topics like this people will get the impression that Western country`s are more progressive then they are in real. In the US movies are still being censored on sex-items. From one side in some states children from 16 are allowed to carry a gun, drive a car, but they`re not allowed to use alcohol and a pair of nude brest are covered by a black beam. In Europe they don`t know this kind of censorship, but it isn`t the way that everything is accepted and normal! Personally I still have problems with women who give their baby`s brestfeeding in public, however some women think it`s normal. Sex in all forms is something between 2 people and as long as they agree themselves, I don`t think anybody has the right to have a meaning about that, it`s personal and private!
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
There is no perfect society. We can all learn from each other's progress and mistakes. Within each country, there is a broad spectrum of views and tolerated behaviours.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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I don't agree with breastfeeding in public - sorry but that's how i feel.
oral sex hmm close your eyes and open your mouth or stick your tongue out and you will have a nice surprise!!!
is sex better with the light on or off?
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
English is not my first language, so excuse me... By censored I mean the black beams to cover body-parts. And about the sex; I told you. It`s something private, and I don`t understand what you mean by saying this...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
By saying wot? Is sex better with the lights on or off?
how do you 'use' alcohol?? i thought people drunk alcohol not use it.
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: [QB] Here's the most telling article:
o strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
Sono, all I can say to you from what I read so far that, it is hard to tell what two people do in private, not everybody likes to talk about it & people are very different concerning this issue....... some people are shy, some are religious, some are graphic, some are conservative in bed......... & clearly not everyone in Egypt follows these fatwas.
Nobody here can have an answer for your old question "naked in distress" I can see that everybody on the forum tried to help by adding their personal experience or views because this is a personal subject. Some turned it into a joke.
in the end if your husband as well as other Egyptian men like to do that..... it doesnt mean that the vast majiority of Egyptians do the same. Clearly, people are different.
And also I will agree with you that, yes some Egyptians do cover up while having sex & honestly I dont know how many, & i have never met or known anyone who does that......
besides, not many people like to talk about it..... a veiled friend of mine who recently got married once told me when i was joking with her that she should tell me all, that it's haram to tell or talk about your sexual experience with your husband...... you should keep it private..... I was disappointed Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: [QB] Here's the most telling article:
o strip or not to strip? Egyptian clerics debate sex
Sono, all I can say to you from what I read so far that, it is hard to tell what two people do in private, not everybody likes to talk about it & people are very different concerning this issue....... some people are shy, some are religious, some are graphic, some are conservative in bed......... & clearly not everyone in Egypt follows these fatwas.
Nobody here can have an answer for your old question "naked in distress" I can see that everybody on the forum tried to help by adding their personal experience or views because this is a personal subject. Some turned it into a joke.
in the end if your husband as well as other Egyptian men like to do that..... it doesnt mean that the vast majiority of Egyptians do the same. Clearly, people are different.
And also I will agree with you that, yes some Egyptians do cover up while having sex & honestly I dont know how many, & i have never met or known anyone who does that......
besides, not many people like to talk about it..... a veiled friend of mine who recently got married once told me when i was joking with her that she should tell me all, that it's haram to tell or talk about your sexual experience with your husband...... you should keep it private..... I was disappointed
And 85% of society you'll won't speak to in such an intimate fashion.
Even veiled Muslimahs will speak, but with family and close friends only on this topic.
You know very well how seriously Egyptians take these fatwas, and its a really old practice so why argue with a ruling that has been around for ions?
I have seen recent fatwas in newsarticles are the same fatwas I have read in detail about in a history book on the Fatimids. For many westerners with immense change, social revolution and new governing bodies; its hard to believe that a society can hold onto to its practices as arduently as Egypt has.
Alot of elite Egyptians don't want to discuss or even acknowledge that their society is deeply entrenched in such old traditions.
Well what do you know, the Chinese, Indians and Koreans are the same. But most outsiders never learn how deeply entranched their traditions are, because the Chinese, Koreans, and Indians don't divulge these traditions.
You've heard of the "blue wall of silence" well old cultures have the same wall.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): By saying wot? Is sex better with the lights on or off?
how do you 'use' alcohol?? i thought people drunk alcohol not use it.
In my language you can say "using" and "drinking" both. I don`t understand your questions about sex, told you in my opinion it`s private.Above that, what difference does make knowing that?
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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and the reference to sex was a joke/ rhetorical question you know
HAHAHAHAH LMAO, ROFL,
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
No I haven't seen your picture. Why do you ask?
Because I'm fugly Posts: 3128 | From: Not Your Heaven | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa:
quote:Originally posted by *The Dark Angel* aka CAT:
quote:Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa: No I didn't embellish your age. I have seen a pic of you in a hijab and I used to read another forum, before they closed it to non-members. Besides you have a grandson who is 15 years old.
OMG, have you seen my picture too?
No I haven't seen your picture. Why do you ask?
Because I'm fugly
Probably not. there are certain personality aspects that fugly people give off online.
Insistance that looks and appearances don't matter is one of those aspects. Its a well known fact that first impressions are appearance laden, to the point that 70% of first impressions are your looks.
Fugly people don't like this ugly truth, even though research shows that fugly people are far more critical of others appearances than beautiful people.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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