posted
My friend is considering being a 2nd wife while she is getting situated in Egypt. If she does, she says she will live on her own. She says she needs him around temporarily due to the harrasment. She is retiring in Egypt.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
My Mum is retired here and she is never harassed, who the hell would harass someone about to retire!!!
That sounds to me like a feeble justification rather than a logical reason!
Is she only temporarily harassed or will it only occur once a month when wife number one is having women's things going on? Or the other monthly issue of 'one week till pay day'.
Why marry him if all she wants is to saved ad hoc from unlikely harassment....
EEE... I have read it all lol The unshockable is shocked.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
I would like to remind everyone that the lady has not agreed and that she is thinking about it.
Talking to them both I feel that there feelings for each other are true and this is why no decision has yet be made.
However I feel from my conversations with the lady that she will not agree even though she loves him. This is because she has raised the point that she is not strong enough to think of her man with another especially due to her previous experiences. Plus she has not had a family yet and so wishes to as she is still young enough.
Whatever they both decide I will be there for them as I know it must be difficult for them both.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
One thing I have always said to girls on here contemplating any involvement here with someone they are unsure of is do not accept anything from a dude here that you wouldn't accept in their own country.
Being a Mistress... sorry, part of a cultural love triangle, is not the best way to go if she has experienced being another woman or a cheated party in the past.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: My egyptian friend say that this lady would live with him in Hurghada whilst his other wife would live in the village.
My friend has put me in contact with this lady. She appears very nice and sensible and has told me exactly the same as him.
She has told me that she loves him but she has not agreed to be his second wife. He has asked her to think about it for a time before she make her final decision.
So who will support and provide for her in Hurghada? does he himself live in Hurghada or 'the village'? Will his other wife even KNOW about her? will his parents? sounds like a bit on the side to me and because its Egypt he will have to marry her to be with her. This kind if in UK would be off shagging anything with a hole while the poor wife 'in the village' knows bugger all.
quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: I would like to remind everyone that the lady has not agreed and that she is thinking about it.
Talking to them both I feel that there feelings for each other are true and this is why no decision has yet be made.
However I feel from my conversations with the lady that she will not agree even though she loves him. This is because she has raised the point that she is not strong enough to think of her man with another especially due to her previous experiences. Plus she has not had a family yet and so wishes to as she is still young enough.
Whatever they both decide I will be there for them as I know it must be difficult for them both.
her experiences which im assuming he knows about as she will have told him everything about how bad men are? he has found a lovely victim to manipulate there.
She is young and able to have kids, so why isnt he presenting her to mother and saying 'THIS is the one I want', has she even been introduced to his parents as his intended number 2?
Tell your friend to get some self esteeme and kick him into touch, she is worth way more than that and if he loved her as she loves him he would stop being (a) a spineless prick; or (b) what Penny said. Really there are plenty of single men out there that would appreciate her more and not play on her insecurities and I think thats what hes doing.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by unsure: She says she needs him around temporarily due to the harrasment.
And how exactly would being a second wife prevent her from being harassed? He is hardly going to accompany her every single time she goes outside, no? Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by unsure: She says she needs him around temporarily due to the harrasment.
And how exactly would being a second wife prevent her from being harassed? He is hardly going to accompany her every single time she goes outside, no?
My point exactly! What the hell goes through people's minds.
We have one lass wanting to be a bit of fluff and another wanting a hero who won't see her!
I swear... if I didn't know of any normal healthy relationships here I would question every western woman I met here!!!
Please, if I ever post anything like this you will track me down and kick me back into reality! Promise?
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Ayisha, I typed exactly the same then figured it was all mentioned on page 1. cba to read back!
This girl seems besotted by 'the dream'... when 'the reality'... is being pushed aside.
Am I odd, am I strange... does anybody else think that these women are insane?
I am too tired to pussy foot and be polite... FFS women!!! GET A GRIP.
These women are the reason we women who live here are seen as meat, cash cows, stupid and whores!!! I am going to burn a bra!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
I have suggested to them both that they be together without the girl in the village being a wife.
I think this is what the lady is truly hoping for and why she stalls so much. I hope she does push this with my egyptian friend as I believe they could be good together. I think she feels bad as they will have to wait for her divorce.
Have explained to them both the story of the other egyptian man that I have spoken to who is really unhappy in his life with the arranged marriage.
Ayisha I can confirm that he lives in Hurghada the rest I do not know.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Of course this lady truly hopes she gets what she wants, we are designed to get what we want. But, sometimes you have to admit defeat.
Does she understand the types of marriages in Egypt. will she marry MOJ or Urfi?
Without the village wife, does she understand the connotations of the fall out for him? Will she know the truth of the goings on? Can she speak Arabic to understand his 1 million calls a day? If she marries MOJ does she know of the 'pre-nups' she can add? Is she employable here? Does she know the cost of a god international education for her desired family?
How many 'real life' days have they spent together?
Not that I care so much but does this lady actually see past the blinkers and his words?
I cannot understand why any woman would contemplate a life move based on a guy in Hurghada, who sounds like a typical arse! I am sure there will be more stories after the summer hols.
Obviously we may be wrong, he may be salt of the earth and we are just judging based on our knowledge... please keep in touch.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Ayisha, I typed exactly the same then figured it was all mentioned on page 1. cba to read back!
This girl seems besotted by 'the dream'... when 'the reality'... is being pushed aside.
Am I odd, am I strange... does anybody else think that these women are insane?
I am too tired to pussy foot and be polite... FFS women!!! GET A GRIP.
These women are the reason we women who live here are seen as meat, cash cows, stupid and whores!!! I am going to burn a bra!
We're not in the sixties anymore! But you're right, sometimes I cannot believe my eyes if I read how a certain group of women agrees in being fooled. They step into misery with their eyes open wide, holding the hand from their exotic boyfriend believing every word of bullshit he speaks.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: Ayisha I can confirm that he lives in Hurghada the rest I do not know.
Kazz tell us what job he does in Hurghada and we will tell you the realities of the economics she and her future children will face.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
When me amd my friends got to know this egyptian man a few years ago he was selling various trips at the hotel where we stayed.
I assume he is still doing this as he has not said otherwise. I just know that he was no longer at our hotel. When we met up with him this year we met him at coffee shop etc.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Ok Kazz I'm sure this guy is very nice and good to sit and have a coffee with, and put the world to rights with but the reality is in Egyptian society he is at the bottom of the heap.
The economic reality is he will be very lucky if he makes LE 1,000 ( and I'm being very generous about that figure and assuming he is the best of the best at his job LOL). So you don't need me to spell out the realities of what this lady would be facing trying to support a family in Hurghada on this sort of income.
Actually I have never ever ever met an unmarrried guy from this level of society in Egypt that didn't say he wants the virginal bride. SO my big concern would be he is smelling a divorce settlement in the air and will be quite happy to have a foot in two camps for which this lady is going to have to pay for.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
so wife number 1 gets a house provided for her in the village, which will be close to or above his mum and dads house, she gets the gold and she gets totally supported financially by him. Wife number 2 will have to rent her own flat in Hurghada for him to live in free, she will be required to work or she will not eat or have a flat, she will support him knowingly or otherwise while his income goes back to support wife number 1.
Penny was being very generous with his salary too and wife number 2 can earn more than him being a foreigner so will be convinced its a good option for a life in an exotic Red Sea resort.
She will be a secret (from the family) wife unless the family see how well she supports the rest of them.
If and when kids come along, thats when she will know the truth of the situation but it will be too late.
Saying all that there ARE Egyptian/Foreign marriages in Hurghada with kids, I have seen them but I dont know their situation.
of course he could be genuine.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Saying all that there ARE Egyptian/Foreign marriages in Hurghada with kids, I have seen them but I dont know their situation.
Yes there were in Sharm as well but all the ones I knew had husband's in seniour executive roles in the hotels or had their own businesses. They could afford to educate the children in the British school, the wives worked by choice, and certainly none of the men had a second wife stuck in a village.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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I can see how confusing things can now be if you get involved in a different culture.
The only thing that is different is that the lady will not come out of the divorce with anything as her husband has left them in debt. This is why she is living with her family (parents and grandparents in one house). She has explained this to the Egyptian man and he has many times mentioned that he knows she has nothing to me and her.
Unless of course he does not really believe this.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Somtimes in life you have to just face the fact that love alone is not enough to sustain a long term relationship. Especially if there are going to be children involved.
You seem well intended Kazz so if you really want to help this lady open her eyes to the realities of what she would be facing even without another wife in the village.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
If she's gonna do this, she's probably going to want to visit this village because dads take their daughters back home for good when they're about 12 - and hawks over them until they're married.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
My Mum is retired here and she is never harassed, who the hell would harass someone about to retire!
Just about everyone with a drop of testosterone, in my experience! At least where I live. But mostly rich Cairo tourists. And not difficult to fend off, luckily. Go figure.
In my experience of friends with family pressure to marry, they seem to cope ok. If really pushed, they'll do the whole engagement bit, and later, mutually agree that it won't work. On here, I find it a little condescending to imply that it is only the young man that may have doubts.I've met a few girls here who have conspired with their 'fiance' to get out of an arranged marriage.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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I talked to my friend today and she confessed that she is considering being a cowife because she wants to have sex with him. He told her he can only have sex if he is married. She don't want a MOJ marriage and he won't agree to Urfi marriage so she is leaning towards an Islamic marriage for a while.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
That is of course tue, too, MNME . Though the main concern by now perhaps is if the man should avoid the arranged marriage at all, or if the lady from outside should help him avoid it at all, at her own cost. And he has not even seen the girl, he might indeed like her!
Another working (for a while) option seems to be if both leave to live outside and support themselves with salaries there. Though it again shows mostly that the man is not very well established here or does not believe much in attaining success here, in Egypt. And the few cases that I know... I personally am not sure if love prevails in those marriages or if the guys still just wanted to get the visa or "see the world", and are now putting up with it all for some more years, until a better option arrives. Even though they may have kids a s o. So these are all very "open-ended" marriages, to my best knowledge.
Any idea where the guy is from? Because that also tells a lot. E.g. does any one know a successful marriage to anyone upper from Cairo??? Unless woman is a self-converted muslimah or something to that effect.
And the girl should indeed go visit that place, or a similar place, to see with own eyes the life the guy is used to. Had my FIL been more "savvy" then the best thing for "frightening" off this marriage of ours would have been not opposing it with all his might, but welcoming me in their house! God knows if I had still been so sure after that! Especially the relationship of men and women, how tasks and responsibilities are divided - stil pisses me off ever other day to see how men just lounge around while women scrub and service! And how those men are supposed to be able to take decisions of utmost importance to their families and kids... without even as much common sense as women have.
But by now it is too late - already said the "till death us apart", so here I am . If it gets too awful, I just shout at them - no one understands anything, even I shout in Arabic, so they just think it is female "lability" or something. PMS, if they knew what PMS is. And nothing ever changes, not during these generations we are having now, but I do get to let off some steam. Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I will talk to the lady again but I think she is aware of a lot of things you have all said but feelings are a hard thing to not follow as quite often heart rules your head.
I will also speak to the Egyptain man and try to explain to him the difficulties in what he has asked of her.
In my talks with both of them I will only state the facts as I do not want to sway their final choice or be blamed if they feel they make the wrong one.
Nevermind you asked where he is from. I cannot recall the name of the village but his family are farmers in the Nile Delta somewhere. Last year he did show me on his phone a map of where he came from.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
He-he-he shall we be neighbours, then? But no one with 2 wives here in Shebin, I think. Kafr el Sheikh is where they might have such attitudes. Or somewhere else deep inside.
Farmers are definitely very low, very uneducated mostly. Unless they are large-scale farmers who use paid help and are more like small business owners actually. But the ones here around sleep with their cows under same roof, some. Survive on very primitive economy, with barely any cash at home - mostly growing and preparing all their food themselves. TV is perhaps the only electrical gadget in their houses. They eat from low tables, sitting on earth, and somtimes sleep, too.
She should really visit...
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Kafr el Sheikh is where they might have such attitudes. Or somewhere else deep inside.
She should really visit...
Yes a visit has to be the answer. I have been to Kafr el Sheikh and it's exactly as you describe plus all the ducks and chickens live in as well. It is the mentality that would be so hard to cope with and if a guy has grown up in a place like this he is never going to be what we westerners call ' open minded' he won't have a clue what that means...how can he?
That said I have really fond memories of my time there but then I was not looking to marry a villager.
I did know of a few of these type of marriages to village folk back in my time in Sharm but no none of them lasted, a few of the guys even got to the Uk but couldn't cope with the shock that you had to work!
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Why doesn't she just do an urfi marriage, bang him and ruin his life, then get on with hers?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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Tell her to take him up onto a roof top, check there is no one else up there having sex and go for it. That is what the young lovers in Cairo do!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
I have spoken to the Egyptian man again but have to say I am more confused now.
He has just admitted to me that he has met the girl he is to marry.
When he told me this I said that you told me and the other lady that you will not meet until after Ramadam. His reply is that they will sign contracts then and that the marriage will be legal.
What does this mean? Is he already married?
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Kazz75, he is not married yet but probably engaged. The Egyptian marriage goes through several stages. First, the families meet to propose and to get to know each other. During this getting together a groom will give a ring to a bride (she may refuse him after some time by returning the ring). Then, after some time, they make an engagement party. Then, they sign an agreement - this will indicate that they are formally married. Then, there will be a big wedding party - the couple will spend their first night after this.
May be some people here will correct me, but this is what I observed in our family.
Posts: 132 | From: Alex | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Does it matter whether the papers he signs are arrangements or legal documents? The principle is the same and the principle is he will be off shagging another women anytime soon... wow, what a declaration of love to his MSN girl.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Kazz he is going to marry her....that's it...nothing to be confused about. This village boy is not going to go against his family.
He probably does know her, it is very common to marry cousins to keep land and property in the family or if not she will be from within a close circle of friends families.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
No I understand that he will marry her due to expectations etc.
What I did not understand is the fact that he said he will sign the contract after Ramadan and the marriage will be legal. This saying made me think that there is already some marriage in place.
I am just asking for my own curiosity as visit Egypt a few times a year.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
A marriage in Egypt is legal only if it is a civil ceremony performed at a local marriage court. You can have a religious ceremony later.
Islamic Marriage in Egypt:
Couples must have: Consent of both families to the marriage. Consent of both the bride and groom to the marriage. The groom must have financial means to support a wife and family by providing a furnished apartment. Bride accompanied by her guardian when she signs the marriage contract. Presence of witnesses. Payment of the bride's wedding gift. Public declaration of the marriage.
Kazz... just Google it.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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She said that the Egyptian man has just called her to find out if she has made her decision as he needs to move forward with his life.
He has also told her that the arranged wife to be has found out about her and is not sure that she is going to proceed with the marriage.
Myself and the English lady were just wondering what the implications would be if the Egyptian girl decides to refuse him now.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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She is meant to have found out because the lady called him a few times when he was in the village with his family and she also sent him messages. Some of which came through during one of their meetings.
His family is aware he has English friends.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I'll take Penny's "come on ladies" one step further and call bullsh!t.
He was supposed to meet the fiancée during Ramadan. No, he knows who she is. No, he knows who she is, meets with her, and yucks it up on his mobile while he's with the future fiancée he's never met. Even better, the future fiancée he's never met now has to make some big life decisions so this terrific catch can get on with his life.
Meanwhile, the English drama queen is sitting back, putting two people through changes because she wants to spread her legs for him.
It's women like this English woman who make Egypt hard for the rest of us - the western women who aren't sluts.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Stayingput I think this is rather harsh on the English woman (my know friend). She is not like that at all. If she just wants to spread her legs for him as you so put it, then she would not have cared about any of this and just said yes to him.
It is not her fault that the other girl has to make decisions because until lately she did not know the circumstances.
From my conversations she cares deeply for him and she is not just an online girl friend. She has actually spent time with him.
It is my friend he has asked to make a decision so that he can plan his future.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I still can't work out why on earth this woman hasn't run a mile? Is she so insecure that she will happily be this player's mistress, or should I say "legal mistress", as that is all that marriage would mean?
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
WK this woman is in love. She is not happy at all with the situation and knows she should move on but is finding it hard to do so. She has not agreed to him. I think she hopes he grows a back bone and stands up for what he wants.
I have friends in similar situations in the UK with men from their own country.
Stayingput if you read my earlier post you would see she is not with her husband and is in the process of getting a divorce. A lot of people meet thier new partners in this period of time.
Yes, he is engaged and I would not say she is working him if anything it is the other way around (This is hard for me to say as he is also my friend)as she only recently found this out.
I think you need to get your head out of the gutter, we do not all just get involved with relationships just for sex. They are made up of a lot more than that.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I realise this and believe she will gradually. I have to say I still do not doubt the feelings they have for each other but I now understand how different people expect and follow different ways.
He said to me his family would kill him. This is why he's worried that the egyptian girl will not go ahead.
I asked originally what would be the implications (for all of them) if she refused this. Does anyone know the answer?
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
This is not what he said this is my saying. I meant by this that he would be in big trouble with his family.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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We're not in the sixties anymore! But you're right, sometimes I cannot believe my eyes if I read how a certain group of women agrees in being fooled. They step into misery with their eyes open wide, holding the hand from their exotic boyfriend believing every word of bullshit he speaks.
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