posted
I have just returned from my vacation in Egypt.
Whilst there I met up with my friend who told me that he is to be married. This marriage has been arranged for him and he has not yet met his wife to be. He will meet her at the festival after Ramadam.
This friend is in love with someone else.
Does he have to go through with this arranged marriage or can he somehow get out of it?
I ask this as also spoke to another Egyptian man who is already in an arranged marriage and he is so unhappy.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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According to Islamic law there is no valid marriage without consent from both parties. Cultural law is a bit trickier and depends on family and the persons willingness to rebel a bit. Good luck anyway Posts: 195 | From: Nottingham, England | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: According to Islamic law there is no valid marriage without consent from both parties. Cultural law is a bit trickier and depends on family and the persons willingness to rebel a bit. Good luck anyway
Islamic Law?
Would you mind posting which Juriprudence tradition, which fatwa, or which Surah defines "arranged marriages" without consent as illegal?
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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Yes he has to go through it. People get married for different reasons in Egypt than we do in the west. It can work well or badly, same as for us.
Worldwide the statistics for arranged marriages are better than love matches.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Technically he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. Just because his family wants him to or some people in his culture practice this custom, doesn't mean that he has to.
And as Stephie ELH has stated, it goes against Islam to force anyone into marriage. Both parties need to consent. Of course (obviously), if they aren't Muslim then this does not apply.
Really it just depends on how he wants to handle things with his family and what kind of relationship he is okay with having with them. If they want to disown him because he doesn't want to marry someone they chose for him, that's really their issue and not his. Of course he can try to please his parents, which would be pleasing to Allah, but there is no "has to" in this situation.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Stephie_ELH: According to Islamic law there is no valid marriage without consent from both parties. Cultural law is a bit trickier and depends on family and the persons willingness to rebel a bit. Good luck anyway
Islamic Law?
Would you mind posting which Juriprudence tradition, which fatwa, or which Surah defines "arranged marriages" without consent as illegal?
This is not an arranged marriage as such it is more a forced marriage if he doesnt 'want' to marry the girl. According to islam and the Nikah ceremony each party is asked and each party can refuse, on refusal the marriage is not valid.
An arranged marriage can be arranged but only with each party's consent.
The young man does NOT 'have to' marry anyone he does not want to marry and neither does the girl. In Islam no one can be forced into marriage and both have a right to refuse.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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His family have only recommended a girl for him to potentially marry,He will go and sit with her for a few days under their parents watch,to see how they agree with each other.
If they both do not want to marry,then it can not be forced.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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I believe he wants to make his family etc. happy and follow their wishes as they are important to him.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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I have never been into any Islamic country but aranged marriages do also take place here in Australia within the various Islamic communities. I acknowledge that young Muslims living in Islamic countries don't have enough leeway or flexibility with their parents over there. However, I find it inexcusable that their counterparts here in Australia try to have it both ways. They disobey their parents' marriage choices(and other directives) for them, but they don't exactly want to let go of all the priveleges of living with their elders...instead of being financially independent and doing their own laundry and cooking
As I said, young Muslims in Egypt and other Islamic countries have probably next to no room for flexibility with their elders, but I find this lack of backbone with their Western counterparts to be quite disappointing
-------------------- ...'knock on the sky and listen to the sound'...Zen saying Posts: 62 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2010
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Arranged marriages in Islamic communities happen mostly in Pakistan, or between British Pakistani and Pakistani, where the whole marriage is arranged by the family even down to who you will marry and you meet for the first time on the wedding day. The majority of British Pakistani males take a wife from Pakistan, marry her and bring her back to UK.
This boy the OP is talking about is claiming to be forced into a marriage he doesnt want but will go along with his family's wishes, or not. He should speak up and say he loves someone else and propose marrying the one he wants and allow the family to look at that option and give the girl a chance to find another.
It is also not common that she, or her family, find the man, its normally the man or his family that find the girl. Its more normal for the man to find a girl he likes and then contact her family, not the other way round.
I have recently been close to 2 people in the situation of finding a partner. My sis in laws family were approached by the family of a boy with a wish he wanted to marry my sis in law. My hubby and brothers then contacted and met the man and his family then he was allowed to meet my sis in law, she agreed to marry him. Another is a friend of my hubby who had seen a girl with friends and contacted my hubby as this girl is from his village. Hubby contacted the brother and a meeting is arranged.
It is not normal for a family to tell a man or boy he 'has' to marry a particular girl, he will be approached and has every right to say no.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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But if they are that kind of family then if he wants to be a part of them he has to do what they say. It is not just a case of turning down a marriage but "divorcing" from your family. The families that do this kind of thing are wrong and unIslamic but they exist
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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Can i add - that although not forced - the arranged marriage may have to go ahead.....it can cause great rifts in the families, of the aunts, uncles, cousins and also the entire village. The arranged marriage is expected from when mere children. Although, some go ahead, they are not of the choosing of the individual.- Its just expected...The love is not at the forefront, but eventually they have to learn to love or divorce...But by then, they have probably a kid or two... The arguments, the battles and the pressure on the man is a burden.. my HB has had to fight his brothers, his sisters and he is constantly battling with me, because although i am his choice, i feel inside im losing the battle.
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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alright if there is a difference between forced and arranged marriages, show me the Surah, the fatwa or whatever.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: alright if there is a difference between forced and arranged marriages, show me the Surah, the fatwa or whatever.
common sense Amy, one is forced the other is arranged
Isn't it obvious I am not taking your word for it?
She never stated in her original post that it was "forced" you decided to insert the word "forced" :
quote:Whilst there I met up with my friend who told me that he is to be married. This marriage has been arranged for him and he has not yet met his wife to be. He will meet her at the festival after Ramadam.
This friend is in love with someone else.
Does he have to go through with this arranged marriage or can he somehow get out of it?
I ask this as also spoke to another Egyptian man who is already in an arranged marriage and he is so unhappy.
Now I want to see the actual Fatwa, Surah and Juriprudence ruling in regards to "arranged" or "forced" marriages.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: alright if there is a difference between forced and arranged marriages, show me the Surah, the fatwa or whatever.
common sense Amy, one is forced the other is arranged
Isn't it obvious I am not taking your word for it?
isnt it obvious I dont care if you are or not?
quote:She never stated in her original post that it was "forced" you decided to insert the word "forced" :
quote:Whilst there I met up with my friend who told me that he is to be married. This marriage has been arranged for him and he has not yet met his wife to be. He will meet her at the festival after Ramadam.
This friend is in love with someone else.
Does he have to go through with this arranged marriage or can he somehow get out of it?
I ask this as also spoke to another Egyptian man who is already in an arranged marriage and he is so unhappy.
Now I want to see the actual Fatwa, Surah and Juriprudence ruling in regards to "arranged" or "forced" marriages. [/QB]
he doesnt want to go through with it, he loves another, if he has to do it then he is forced.
If you want to see any fatwa or whatever, look it up as I would. I dont care one way or the other if you do or not really. if you are not sure on the words 'forced' and 'arranged' then look in a dictionary
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: alright if there is a difference between forced and arranged marriages, show me the Surah, the fatwa or whatever.
common sense Amy, one is forced the other is arranged
Isn't it obvious I am not taking your word for it?
isnt it obvious I dont care if you are or not?
quote:She never stated in her original post that it was "forced" you decided to insert the word "forced" :
quote:Whilst there I met up with my friend who told me that he is to be married. This marriage has been arranged for him and he has not yet met his wife to be. He will meet her at the festival after Ramadam.
This friend is in love with someone else.
Does he have to go through with this arranged marriage or can he somehow get out of it?
I ask this as also spoke to another Egyptian man who is already in an arranged marriage and he is so unhappy.
Now I want to see the actual Fatwa, Surah and Juriprudence ruling in regards to "arranged" or "forced" marriages.
he doesnt want to go through with it, he loves another, if he has to do it then he is forced.
If you want to see any fatwa or whatever, look it up as I would. I dont care one way or the other if you do or not really. if you are not sure on the words 'forced' and 'arranged' then look in a dictionary [/QB]
Have you noticed the original poster is not the dude in the arranged marriage, but an outsider who has not met or discussed the arranged marriage with anyone but him?
The original post used the term "arranged" and not "forced" inserting the word "forced" is at your liberty not the actual word used by the dude in the arranged marriage.
Ayisha you don't seemed concerned with the reality of what Islam states and its laws outlined in regards to this matter. You'd rather project your personal feelings and disregard Islam entirely.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: alright if there is a difference between forced and arranged marriages, show me the Surah, the fatwa or whatever.
common sense Amy, one is forced the other is arranged
Isn't it obvious I am not taking your word for it?
isnt it obvious I dont care if you are or not?
quote:She never stated in her original post that it was "forced" you decided to insert the word "forced" :
quote:Whilst there I met up with my friend who told me that he is to be married. This marriage has been arranged for him and he has not yet met his wife to be. He will meet her at the festival after Ramadam.
This friend is in love with someone else.
Does he have to go through with this arranged marriage or can he somehow get out of it?
I ask this as also spoke to another Egyptian man who is already in an arranged marriage and he is so unhappy.
Now I want to see the actual Fatwa, Surah and Juriprudence ruling in regards to "arranged" or "forced" marriages.
he doesnt want to go through with it, he loves another, if he has to do it then he is forced.
If you want to see any fatwa or whatever, look it up as I would. I dont care one way or the other if you do or not really. if you are not sure on the words 'forced' and 'arranged' then look in a dictionary
Have you noticed the original poster is not the dude in the arranged marriage, but an outsider who has not met or discussed the arranged marriage with anyone but him?
the poster is discussing it here isnt he/she?
quote:The original post used the term "arranged" and not "forced" inserting the word "forced" is at your liberty not the actual word used by the dude in the arranged marriage.
sorry OP, *waves at Kazz75* I wrongly took him not wanting to marry someone he doesnt love but doing it to please his parents so they dont disown him as being forced into it. I dont know how I could have come to that conclusion!
quote:Ayisha you don't seemed concerned with the reality of what Islam states and its laws outlined in regards to this matter. You'd rather project your personal feelings and disregard Islam entirely.
No Amy I looked it up, you would rather be more concerned in a fight rather than look it up for yourself. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Kazz there are some good debates and discussions on the topic on Hudu tv - this is about misconceptions -you can get it on pc - the arranged marriages do go ahead, and the difference between "forced" and "arranged" is translated in brief terms from the Sheik - what you make of it is your transpertation of whats being said. As i said misconceptions....
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by shalamar: Can i add - that although not forced - the arranged marriage may have to go ahead.....it can cause great rifts in the families, of the aunts, uncles, cousins and also the entire village. The arranged marriage is expected from when mere children. Although, some go ahead, they are not of the choosing of the individual.- Its just expected...The love is not at the forefront, but eventually they have to learn to love or divorce...But by then, they have probably a kid or two... The arguments, the battles and the pressure on the man is a burden.. my HB has had to fight his brothers, his sisters and he is constantly battling with me, because although i am his choice, i feel inside im losing the battle.
This is an excellent post... the marital arrangement may have been in the planning for over a decade and your friend may simply just be following what is EXPECTED of him by his family.
I have a friend who has been told he has 6 months to find a bride or his family will find one for him. This guy at least has options but he is EXPECTED to be married by now and one way or another he will be.
I also know a guy who married a woman he did not love (or barely know) becasue the family arranged it and he is now off having affairs!!! They have a 10 month old son too now... poorl little man growing up in loveless home
And I also have a female friend who has men paraded around her living room by her parents for her to decide if they are good enough for her to marry, the last guy was of a high class, good money, respectable profession and was well spoken, when I asked why she did not take him she told me he was too short You gotta love it here.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Cheekyferret this is exactly what is happening.
My friend he was given a time to find someone. He did not do this within the timescale so family started to look for him.
Since this time he has found someone but the family has already found someone they feel is appropriate. It does not help that the person he wants is in the progress of getting a divorce.
The other man I spoke to who is unhappily married is in contact with another lady he has feelings for. I do not know how far this relationship has gone though as do not know him that well.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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Unfortunately Kazz he can only get out of this agreement if he is prepared to shame, hurt and potentially lose his family. And families here are pinnacle and loyalty is a priority.
On the reverse side of the coin I also know Egyptians who are allowed to date, fall in love and live their life as they desire.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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Last night I spoke to my friend again about his situation.
He has told me that he is going ahead with his arranged marriage but has asked the other lady to be his second wife.
Is this possible? and if so how?
I do not understand this as I believe that if you love someone it should just be the two of you.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: He has told me that he is going ahead with his arranged marriage but has asked the other lady to be his second wife.
posted
Yes its possible if he's Muslim. How? he marries one then the other.
Is the other lady a foreigner?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Of course this is possible. He just has another point of view on the institution of marriage...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: He just has another point of view on the institution of marriage...
He is simply a spineless coward who doesn't have the guts to face his family and is looking for an easy way out.
It's not the first time I hear about this sort of thing, and I have no respect whatsoever for this type of man.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Has he told his family and future bride he plans to have a second wife? Another case of wanting to have your cake and eat it.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: Yes, I believe the other lady is foreign.
If the lady does agree, will both marriages be legal or what? How do you marry one and then the other?
He will marry the arranged one with a party and declare it to the world in the proper manner then he will marry the other one by orfi contract, unless he marries the foreign one first in the embassy marriage then the arranged one after. If he marries the arranged one first he cannot marry the foreign one in the embassy marriage after as they wont accept polygamy. The second one to the foreigner will be legal in Egypt yes, and the next 2 if he chooses to have his full quota of 4 wives. He will tell the foregin wife he is marrying the other for children and her for love, I assume she has money, I mean in Egypt terms not in foreign terms. He SHOULD tell or ask the arranged wife if he can marry the second one, although they dont always bother with that part.
quote:He tell me he is going ahead with arranged marriage because he does not want to disrespect his family.
he is disrespecting them by lying to them but then what is disrespect to an Egyptian is not the same to the rest of the world. Basically, he doesnt want to lose the cash cow and the Egyptian wife will most likely agree anyway as she will benefit.
quote:I am just trying to understand his thinking?
dont even bother trying.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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He says he wants the other one because he loves her and wants her to be with him. He has also mentioned that they have discussed having children together.
From what my friend has told me this lady does not really have anything for example she does not have savings or her own home (she is living with family). She does have a job but if she chooses to be with him she will have to give this up.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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It will envietably be a decision that will be of benefit to his family, and himself - i am first wife - although, in years to come will I still be holding on to that status? No one knows, families differ regarding the depths they go to with their precious sons, some let them marry the foreigner believing it will bring into the family a buffer in which to live in comfort. hence the "cash cow " but, however through constant pressure and the need for a heir to the family name, the son will no doubt buckle -unless he escapes the clutches into another country, or another area where he is not part of the relentless greed.
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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Well my friend married an Egyptian man, the visa was denied to USA, and they agreed to divorce because she wouldn't move to Egypt. He has remarried and asked her if she moves to Egypt one day will she be his second wife.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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Most Egyptian women aren't enthousiastic when husband wants a wife besides them, but what can they do? If they refuse their only option is divorce and most women are not the situation that they can live an independant life... In my opinion the man in such a situation is the selfish one, he wants it all and does not care about the feelings of his wife.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Ayisha you are spot on that is forced marriage not arranged. Not only Muslims do arranged marriages other cultures do too my friends are Indian, Sikh and Hindu both do that sort of marriage. My friend she is Sikh marrying arranged marriage and she is happy.
Posts: 816 | From: london | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kazz75, is "this lady" perhaps you?? never mind, it does not matter but she must be from outside, because with an Egyptian girl of course she does not have savings or home and of course she is staying with parents! Even - how is she allowed to work??? Not that they aren't allowed but that makes it a very uneven union indeed if one side is enlightened enough to let their daughter work outsied of home, while the other still lives deep in the jungle of patriarchial relationships..
For a girl from outside.. first concern is if the young man is honest. It is quite often also a nice excuse for keeping a comfortable distance (or getting rid of) a one-week girlfriend - that "my family is forcing me to marry another".
While, if it isn't, it depends of if the young man wishes to stand for himself and his love (is the love/lady worth it, for him) or NOT. If he subdues to the family all too easily, the lady probably is not worth enough, and this lady, IMHO should not cry but be happy she has got rid of him so easily.
While if both find that separation is unthinkable, there are ways. A trickle can dissolve a mountain, it just takes more time . Most importantly the young man should stay calm, if can, in ANY situation, and demonstrate admirable capacity of taking wise decisions . Basically - impress the elders. If he laments and otherwise behaves as a youngster, no one will listen to him or take his will seriously. And his lady should of course come over very ladylike, even from afar. Like an untouched regal flower. it can be conveyed by photos or small gifts to the family if those will be accepted (even if noit, they still convey the message). Very welcome if lady has elders from own side who look impressive and can come in to help "arrange" this alternative "arrangement". Like talk over the phone - a nice bass, even if they do not understand what it says, still conveys a lot, or also appear in pictures. Use photos made in museums - a regal piece of furniture accidentally captured on the background does not harm! IMPRESS them with everything that impresses an Egyptian, which is mostly money, status, and regal manners.
Now, consider also the family of the "arranged" bride. Because they are probably already waiting for that groom, and if this groom is now denied to them, there will be hard feelings. If the guy's dad cannot be convinced, find someone else who has at least a bit of authority in the family, or anyone, literally, because to some extent it is sheer physical mass that counts - so even a couple of friends with whom he goes and talks to the bride's side, "letting them in" to the "secrets of the new generation" and how you really need to make your own choices or whatever. But beware - he might spot the arranged bride there and actually like her!
Finally, lots of couples have an orfi marriage, live together and refuse to go back to the family until the family accepts the marriage. Which many times has happened when the first grandchild appears .
In all other aspects - love is more a decision than a feeling, so once you decide to love, you can love and live with anyone. And in arranged marriages the couple are more similar in their background so also in their expectations. While in love relationships, when the first feelings fade, then what is left is that the guy wants one thing and the girl something totally different. Especially true about mixed marriages between a not so wealthy Egyptian and someone comfortasbly off, from outside. Because he will never be able to offer his wife all she really wants or also care to think it is important - because himself he has got by with much less. Simple things like to go out of house for a dinner or a drink, or visit someone (who is not a relative , go to a concert, read a book or a magazine, all civilized pleasures may become a point of disagreement or misunderstanding.
So, before "this lady" takes any serious action or gives any advice to the guy, the two should sit down and totally discuss their future life. What is a normal day or week for the man, and for the woman. Who cleans, who cooks, whose responbsibility are the kids, what is the importance of TV/music/books/theatre for either side, what does an acceptable home look like and where is it situated, and WHO pays for it.
Because if the man will (pay), the strain of it all may be just too much for him, unless the lady smuggles him to UK and finds a job for him that lavishly pays for the UK living standards, even if modest in UK scale, that are dear to her heart. He may be willing to offer anything to her, but in real life, stress will eat him before he is able to.
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thanks for your feed back Nevermind. It was very informative.
What I do not understand is if my friend was using the arranged marriage line to distance or even to get rid of this lady why would he then propose the second wife option. He also talked to her about about some aspects of their life together if she accepted this proposal.
He has also continued to keep contact with her. Surely he would have now stopped this or ignored her if he was not interested or trying to distance himself.
Of course you can never know anyone 100% but I and others do feel he is genuine and is caught up in an awkward situation. I might be wrong of course.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Kazz75: Thanks for your feed back Nevermind. It was very informative.
What I do not understand is if my friend was using the arranged marriage line to distance or even to get rid of this lady why would he then propose the second wife option. He also talked to her about about some aspects of their life together if she accepted this proposal.
He would propose the second wife option so she will think he 'really loves' her and that he has no choice but to marry this other girl 'for his family honour' basiclaly keeping this foreigner on a string at his beck and call. If she refuses she loses him, if she accepts he has a reason to not 'be with her' full time.
quote:He has also continued to keep contact with her. Surely he would have now stopped this or ignored her if he was not interested or trying to distance himself.
of course he has kept contact, he may need her later when he is not 'happy' with his Egyptian wife or needs money or help from her. Foreigners are a valuable 'asset' even if they claim to have no money and one that adores him even though he's 2 timing her with another woman - or man in some cases - is more valuable as she will do anything/believe anything. Even if they 'dont want you' they dont let go easily.
quote:Of course you can never know anyone 100% but I and others do feel he is genuine and is caught up in an awkward situation. I might be wrong of course.
Of course I have answered above based on your questions and 'general' mind of 'some' Egyptians and my own experience, certainly not all. If you and others that know him think his situation is genuine then you are the ones that know him better, naturally.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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I understand everything you say from reading subjects here and other various places that this thinking/behaviour is very common.
What I can not get my head around is the fact that he wants her to live with him. Surely this will mean they will be together, not just when he wants i.e at his beck and call(one and two weeks a year). Also if he just wants money, would he not want her to remain in UK so that she has funds.
Me and my friends do feel he is genuine but then we are all from UK and do not necessarily understand egyptian mentality.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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For not so few men (or what) MORE! is always better . How many are those in the world who are married to one but also keep a lover by the side? The notion of having "family" with one but love with another is not so strange at all, not even outside of Egypt. Nothing wrong for a man to live with two wives, and even officially!
Also, he may be genuine, indeed, but as much as I have noticed, only very "simple" people nowadays have several wives. The two I know are one a truck driver my husband sometimes uses, and a horse driver in Zamalek I once talked to (not living in Zamalek - working there! The horse driver had family (kids, troubles etc) with an Egyptian, but he had also married a Sudanese beauty, for other simple pleasures.
So - it is simple minds, with little education, who find it acceptable nowadays. Is the girl from outside also so simple? The most likely life style I see is that she stays at home while he goes out to work, then comes in, eats and collapses in front of TV for the rest of the evening. Does she really want that for the rest of her life? Or is he "upwardly mobile" then at least they might achieve the life style of nouveaux riche in Egypt, with perhaps a babysitter or some home help.
What about trying to find a soul mate instead, who shares your dreams??? and can also make them true, realistically.
At least with Muslim you can have a divorce, so technically, she might try it, if she is financially free enough to be without job and move between countries, if things do not work out. But by no means should they have any kids before they know they are indeed satisfied with each other, because kids complicate it a lot in every way. Being a second wife also means the girl from outside will have to live in the man's house, with or near his family, and that all income the man gets, will be shared between them. meaning that there will be 3 mouths from the beginning, and more when the 1st wife no doubt will have kids (ASAP!). Also the attention and support of all extended family will be on the wife wqith kids, the "real" wifw, who will also be the happier one, because for her the living standard, will be much more acceptable. She will not miss much. So she will be the happy and respected wife, Mother, whom everyone loves and helps, while the 2nd wife even if she did not choose to do housework and only lived with the man for pleasure, will live much below what she is used to, materially but especially culturally, and also pretty much in social isolation. Well to put it bluntly, what the "village" would think is that one is his wife and the other one is his wh..e. Depending of from where the man comes from, where they would live.
These are just some possibilities of course, and who finds fault in this thinking please feel free to tell so .
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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I understand everything you say from reading subjects here and other various places that this thinking/behaviour is very common.
What I can not get my head around is the fact that he wants her to live with him. Surely this will mean they will be together, not just when he wants i.e at his beck and call(one and two weeks a year). Also if he just wants money, would he not want her to remain in UK so that she has funds.
Me and my friends do feel he is genuine but then we are all from UK and do not necessarily understand egyptian mentality.
So he wants all 3 to live together in the home he will provide? a bedroom for each wife? Will he also provide the gold for wife number 2, the big wedding party etc? Will he be totally supporting both wives and any children from both? will wife number 1 even agree to this considering wife number 2 has? will his family, whom he is marrying this girl to please, support his decision to have 2 wives?
as for remaining in UK to acquire money, dont you know all Europeans replenish their banks each time we visit the toilet?
Would wife number 2 be required to work? wife number 1 wont.
The lady in question needs to step back and look at the bigger picture. As nevermind has said she will be living in a way that is fine for a week or so, even a month or so, but what about when she misses the small details of her own lifestyle she has now? he cant possibly afford to keep her anywhere near that standard unless he is rich by Egyptian standards. Wife number 1 will accept how they will live as thats all she has known, what she may desire has never been an issue in her life, but not the same for wife number 2.
I am not dissing Egyptians, or Egyptian women, its how it is.
Does wife number 2 speak Arabic? She needs to or it wont be too long before she sits listening to him talking to wife number 1 and feels she is talked about, she has no way of knowing or responding to that unless she knows Arabic. Does wife number 1 speak English? How will the 2 wives live in the same house and learn to get along when wife number 1 (the real wife as has been said) is completely at ease with his family and wife number 2 is not due to language and cultural barriers?
There is a lot to take into account, not just 'lerve' but to make this work as a lasting thing needs more than most western woman could or even SHOULD consider. What about night-time romps? how is wife number 2 going to feel hearing her husband whom she loves making love to another woman in the next room? Would she accept that back home?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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No personally I could not do this. It would kill me to share my husband with another.
My egyptian friend say that this lady would live with him in Hurghada whilst his other wife would live in the village.
My friend has put me in contact with this lady. She appears very nice and sensible and has told me exactly the same as him.
She has told me that she loves him but she has not agreed to be his second wife. He has asked her to think about it for a time before she make her final decision.
Posts: 51 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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One here, one there - comfy... . No, never marry one that does not have the guts to fight for you. Never.
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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I agree with Ayisha and NM. Wifey 1 and wifey 2 (and possibly 3 & 4) will not have the same rights, they will not be treated equally and the inevitable problems that will arise will cause pain, hurt, jealousy and anger. None of which are healthy.
NM... NEVER marry a guy who doesn't have the guts to fight for you ... NEVER.
Tell this lady to envisage her future 10 years down the line. Financially and emotionally. I am all for living in the moment but I do also believe in planning ahead when it comes to matters of the heart (and wallet).
Egyptian mentality... I have 18 years knowledge of it and still do not fathom it.
Over time, ask your friend to seriously ask why he would do this to her, what really is floating his boat to want to ask her to do something which to us Westerners is outside the realm of normality. Also, ask her to question why the other women is so happy to adhere to this agreement...
He HAS to understand that if he wants her to accept his culture he has to accept hers.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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My friend has put me in contact with this lady. She appears very nice and sensible and has told me exactly the same as him.
Another village mummy's boy that wants his cake and eat it, but more fool her to give it to him.
Why do some women think so little of themselves? but if you can't value yourself at least for godsake value your future children.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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