posted
You're missing my point. "Most" Fulani's may be "West" Africans, but it could possibly be that a small influential band came from the East and created "Fulani." If ALL Fulani were characterized by E3a then that's different, but by your own words you said "most" and most isn't ALL.
I brought up the Zulus as a case in point because all those who are Zulus "technically" aren't Zulus. They NOW speak the same language but that was a result of conquest. The original Zulu were a small group of individuals whose origins was in the Nile Valley and Sudan. They are NOW the dominant group in South Africa but all of the current Zulus are not really Zulus: they were incorporated into the Zulus.
This is why SOY Keita always stresses that DNA tells you little and people put too much weight on DNA.
The Yoruba are all not "Yoruba." They are from various parts of West and Central Soudan. Some come from the actual Sudan. Some come from Egypt and had ancestors in Greece. I have posted on this forum before research that proves Niger-Congo speakers were in Ancient Greece and that the Igbo in particular were in ancient Ireland and Greece as the Linear A writing is based off the Ogem script which can only be read in Igbo.
This is why Energy states that they have affinities with ancient Greek culture because they were in ancient Greece, as well as the Nile Valley. Some else also posted a scientific article stating a large percentage of Greeks have Sub Saharan genes. You can't dismissed these things and will have to reconcile it somehow.
I don't argue ALL West Africans come out of the Nile Valley between 3000 BCE and the present. I argue SOME have and we can clearly demonstrate non accidental relationships between West Africans and AE; including the Fulani. So I think we have to expand our research areas and not solely rely on genetics when geneticists inform us that dna actually tells us very little in regards to the whole story.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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Point taken. The founding fathers of any nation are likely to be and remain its elites unless somehow usurped.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: This is why Energy states that they have affinities with ancient Greek culture because they were in ancient Greece, as well as the Nile Valley. Some else also posted a scientific article stating a large percentage of Greeks have Sub Saharan genes. You can't dismissed these things and will have to reconcile it somehow.
More research needs to be done here. I certainly haven't seen any concrete evidence of this, save for cultural similarities with Egypt.
I am personally convinced that those who founded the civilisation of AE are of the same "ilk" (not talking about genes but worldview) that founded the Yoruba civilisation.
Posts: 368 | From: Oxford | Registered: Jan 2008
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It's one thing to say cultural "similarities" between cultures: hair style, dress, concept of God, etc. But it is a totally different thing when Linear A can be read with Niger-Congo words and Linear A matches exactly the ancient Igbo script we now call Ogem. It's a totally different thing when you have "sub-saharan" Genes in a large percentage in Greek populations. These aren't "similarities," these are exactitudes and cannot be explained away by "chance similarity."
You cannot by way of osmosis create a writing script that can be read by Niger-Congo speakers. That's impossible. With this evidence you have to concede that what we call West Africans not only had a footing in the NIle Valley but in ancient Greece.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Ancient Egypt, like all other great African civilizations, was not the sole creation of a single ethnic group, but rather a collective collaboration of many African peoples, held together by a central government; at times ethnic tensions would plunge the nation into chaos, on other occasions, chaos would be due to other social tensions. Yet it remains the longest historical civilization in human history.
But the history of civilizations is always told as the history of its ruling class or its founders; in Ancient Egypt we have the Anu and later the Mesnitu ruling class obscuring the reality that Ancient Egypt was no different in its ethnic composition than modern Nigeria or Ethiopia, except perhaps with a greater sense of identity as a nationality.
Asiatic myths trumps African reality
It is a given that peoples emigrate from their homelands for a myriad of reasons. Emigrations out of historic Egypt into Asia, based almost entirely on biblical mythology, are readily accepted as historical fact - The Hebrews were enslaved in Egypt for four hundred years, were led out of there by this guy with an Egyptian name, who had a magical stick that parted the "Red" Sea...
On the reality side, of Africans emigrating from historic Egypt back into Africa, based upon tons of historical, cultural, linguistic, ad infinitum, evidence; this natural phenomena becomes "controversial"
Now look at the following quote, one that places the origin of the Fulani safely in the 'upper Nile region,' which ignores the historical reality that the Fulani were Egyptian nationals prior to their emigration into the upper Nile region,
quote: Fulani history Some historians believe the Fulani emerged from a prehistoric pastoral group that originated in the upper Nile region around 3500 B.C. As the climate of the Sahara grew increasingly harsh, population pressures drove them to migrate slowly west and south in search of better grazing lands. By the eleventh century the Fulani emerged as a distinct people group in the Sénégambia Valley. Over the next 400 years they journeyed back east, but south of the Sahara, which had become an inhospitable desert. Traditionally most Fulani are shepherds or cattle herders, but over time some settled down and, by the nineteenth century, had established a series of kingdoms between Sénégal and Cameroon. The Fulani have myths about how the nomads and settled rulers emerged...
...for starters here's some linguistic data comparing Fulani / Mdu Ntr...
I - mi / mi (update) you - on / un we - en / un they - be / bu (people) to be bad - bonude / boone bad - boni / bon death; to die - maayde;maayude / maati, moute, moout, mouti last year - rawanen / snouf; ronpe eye - yitere / eirti blessing - barka / baraka cow - nagge / naga father - baaba / baba ... the evidence is inexhaustible...
posted
Please don't try to compund the discussion. I want to maintain respect for you.
The topic is the "Egyptian Origin of the Fulani". I am NOT saying that ALL African groups should lay claim to AE.. . . but maybe they should.
But my point is simple. E3a STARTED in East Africa. And they still make up at least 25% of East Africans. You are saying that since the Fulanis are E3a they cannot be East African in origin. Do you see how idiotic that logic is?
I am not saying the Fulanis orginated from AE. I don't know enough about the migration patterns, culture or history of ALL Africans of old.
But looking at the genetics and geographic data I wouldn't rule it out.
I don't want to go the route of Argie - but I always feel uncomfortable with non-Africans defending Africans. But have an appreciation for what you have contributed and the "sort of" objective ways you have paticupated in these discussions.
And you do know a lot more than me about my ancestors.
quote:Originally posted by KING: xyyman
There is more to Africa then AE.
Yes some groups in west Africa may have come from the East of Africa like the Tuareg, but I don't think trying to make out like ALL or even most West Africans have there Origins in AE is something that should be championed.
Also as for e3a, Most of that probably comes from the Bantu migration.
As for E3a being found in AE....Probably. But we have to wait until they decide to show us just what markers the AE had.
Peace
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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For all those who want to depend on genetics to rule Fulani out of ancient Egypt, please consider the following points.
1, The Fulani as already stated are in more than 19 countries in Africa and some of these countries lie outside West Africa. The home of the Fulani is West Africa but they are also found in East and central Africa as well.
2. The Fualni were the movers and shakers in all the great civilization in Africa after ancient Egypt, notably the Ghana Empire, the Songhai Empire and the Mali Empire. The great learning centre of Timbuckto was their baby.
3. You may have heard of Arabs trading Negroes as slaves long before the white man set foot in Africa. The truth is it was the Fulani and not the Arabs. Fulani are Arabs when it suits them.
4. When it was time to spread Islam from West Africa all the way to parts of East Africa, the driving force was Fulani and not Arab.
5. When it was time to ship millions of Negroes across the Atlantic into slavery in the Americas the driving force was again the Fulani. Ever heard of the Fulani jihad? Many haven't but if ever you wanted to know where all the slaves came from, the answer is to learn about the Fualni jihad and how it destabilized West Africa.
6. Today through the Sultan of Sokoto, (Fulani Empire) the Fulani have jurisdiction over -----------------------------------------------------
If you look at the far reaching influence the Fulani have had in shaping West Africa all the way to the Sudan, you might begin to appreciate the meaning behind the statement they are in 19 countries in Africa form East to West. With this amount of presence alone, it would be ludicrous to rely on genetic markers and say other Africans were migrants in ancient Egypt but the Fulani were absent. What exactly were the borders of ancient Egypt? This question needs answered because the Egypt we have now is how the white man divided up Africa in 1844. The borders of modern Egypt are not the same as the geographical area of ancient Egypt. If the borders of ancient Egypt extended further south beyond modern Egypt, then ancient Egypt would have extended into known Fulani territory and thus place the Fualni in ancient Egypt. Personally I believe the borders of ancient Egypt extended all the way into the Sudan and West Africa and the Fulani were the key players of the ancient Egyptian Empire.
Looking at the evidence, the Fulani alongside the Akans, were not only present in ancient Egypt but were actually the ancient Egyptians.
I welcome all dissenting views. Let's hear the argument to the contrary.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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Listen up brotha. This is the 21st Century. we/man, really Europeans, have mapped the human genome. Valueable information has and can be obtained from it.
We know ALL man came from Africans Euroepans are a sub-set of Africans We know the genetic markers of different ethnics groups throughout the world.
WE DO NOT HAVE TO RELY ON "PICTURES" ANYMORE. Pic spamming is par se.. . ie old school.
We know now that Europeans markers never entered Africa until recently. In fact it was the other way around. Africans entering Europe.
etc . . . etc . . . etc
MAKE USE OF THE KNOWLEDGE AND DATA OUT THERE. . . .PLEASE!!!
Agreed genetics tells part of the story. But It is really valueable
regards Diasporean
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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xyyman the white man as you said mapped out the human genome but he has NEVER used it to tell his own history and from all indications has no desire to go down that road. Neither has any human race, yet you wanna use gene mapping to tell the black man's history?
Not a clever move brotha, not clever at all.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: It's one thing to say cultural "similarities" between cultures: hair style, dress, concept of God, etc. But it is a totally different thing when Linear A can be read with Niger-Congo words and Linear A matches exactly the ancient Igbo script we now call Ogem. It's a totally different thing when you have "sub-saharan" Genes in a large percentage in Greek populations. These aren't "similarities," these are exactitudes and cannot be explained away by "chance similarity."
You cannot by way of osmosis create a writing script that can be read by Niger-Congo speakers. That's impossible. With this evidence you have to concede that what we call West Africans not only had a footing in the NIle Valley but in ancient Greece.
posted
I said to tell "part" of the story. I said this to Rasol sometime ago. Doe she know the migration pattern of Ancient Africans"
THAT will help tell the whole story.
Despite the illogical premise from King. Fulanis may well be descendents of AE. After all iiregardless of their “looks”. There carry East African markers ie E3a. And from what Shady is saying below along with Wally and others, Fulani’s share vastly similar cultural traits to AE.
quote:Originally posted by Energy:
xyyman the white man as you said mapped out the human genome but he has NEVER used it to tell his own history and from all indications has no desire to go down that road. Neither has any human race, yet you wanna use gene mapping to tell the black man's history?
Not a clever move brotha, not clever at all.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Shady Aftermath: Point taken. The founding fathers of any nation are likely to be and remain its elites unless somehow usurped.
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: This is why Energy states that they have affinities with ancient Greek culture because they were in ancient Greece, as well as the Nile Valley. Some else also posted a scientific article stating a large percentage of Greeks have Sub Saharan genes. You can't dismissed these things and will have to reconcile it somehow.
More research needs to be done here. I certainly haven't seen any concrete evidence of this, save for cultural similarities with Egypt.
I am personally convinced that those who founded the civilisation of AE are of the same "ilk" (not talking about genes but worldview) that founded the Yoruba civilisation.
Shady Aftermath you wanna see some similar culture of Africans and people far away in India? You know Clyde Winters tends to talk about Dravidian in South India having a lot in common with people in West Africa. Guess what? He is right.
Look at the following videos. Just close your eyes and listen to these Hausa Fulani sing their local folk songs. You would think you are listening to Indians but in truth this is pure West African Hausa-Fulani.
The following is Hausa-Fulani at play. NOTE! Let me stress this again. This is NOT India music nor is it a copy of India music style. This is how these Hausa-Fulani people sing their folk songs NATURALLY.
posted
Have you all ever stop to think that Fulani may be from West Africa and in ancient times migrated to Egypt and for various reasons were forced to back-migrate across the Soudan?
People keep forgetting that a lot of the West Africans used to live in what is now the Sahara. When it started drying they were forced to migrate. Some moved south. Some moved west and others went east.
The problem with people trying to study history is they over simplify the nature of human existence. They forgot about the complexity and the diverse ways things can happen. We assume that ALL the Fulani need to be from AE in order to claim roots there and that is not the case.
Take for instance what happened in Katrina. Due to the hurricane many people migrated to Texas. Others migrated to North Carolina and as far away as California. But what people fail to realize is that some of these people migrated from these regions to New Orleans.
Not everyone in New Orleans, LA is from Louisiana. They are not one single organism migrating like schools of fish. We can say the same for the Fulani or the Hausa or the Yoruba or Songye or Mbochi people of Africa. The problem here is over simplification.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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The thing is, the ancient Egyptians do clearly identify themselves as to who they are. They do so in the Egyptian book of the dead and the people they claim to be are in West Africa. Why this is ignored I have no idea.
My premise is what they claim to be is being ignored because because self-serving scientists and historians want to go with genetics and because the gene mapping does not agree with what the dead is saying, they ignore it.
Well, another approach is to look for the Hebrews in Africa because once you find the Hebrews you would find the ancient Egyptians close by. This is because, the historical account in the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day. The people the Hebrews live with in Africa are again in West Africa, namely the Akan and the Fulani.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Have you all ever stop to think that Fulani may be from West Africa and in ancient times migrated to Egypt and for various reasons were forced to back-migrate across the Soudan?
Has this ever been mentioned by Diop or any of the others as to Fulani?
Posts: 124 | From: Zurich | Registered: May 2009
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Originally posted by Energy: If you have the information, just cut and paste it, it is that simple. Alternatively, if its in a book, you scan the relevant info onto you computer and link to it. Why would you direct someone to a link when you can simply cut, paste and highlight the relevant points? By directing me to a link you just admitted you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!
To illustrate the point, when I wanted to show how diverse the looks of the Fulani are, I got a video of images of Fulani people to prove it.
Two scientific studies given you show that the Fulani are primarily West African. You have failed to refute either one with credible research. Anyone can claim anything in some video. We again ask, where is your credible research evidence that the Fulani are not primarily West African? After 4-5 posts on the topic you have beat around the bush and failed to produce anything credible. Still waiting..
WRONG! I have asked Zarahan to substantiate his claims whereby he limits the Fulani to West Africa.
lol.. this is a bogus red herring, and you are obviously now trying to wriggle out of your failure to provide credible evidence. I did not "limit the Fulani to West Africa." i said- quote: "As for the Fulani, most of their genes cluster with West African groups. End of story." Trying to wriggle out of your failure with strawman arguments and bogus attribution of statements supposedly made wont work. Two studies showing the Fulani group primarily with West africans genetically have been presented. We again ask you to produce credible evidence to the contrary.
I mean, how can the genes of the Fulani only cluster with West Africans and have a Caucasoid (European) component at the same time?
Again you openly distort and misrepresent. I again quote what I wrote: "As for the Fulani, most of their genes cluster with West African groups. End of story." Do you see anything in there about Fulani "only" clustering with West Africans? King's data also shows high clustering rates - quote: "Fulani in Niger have E3a at 71% and the Fulani in Nigeria have it at 100%." Again, it is clear that most Fulani cluster with West Africans- in some areas it is virtually 100% - in others about 70% but still an overwhelming percentage. Do you see anything in there about "only" clustering with West africans?
What relevance has E3a got to do with who the Fulani are and how far spread afield they are in Africa?
As King has shown with his reference, most Fulani group with E3a carriers. E3a is primarily found in West Africa. You would know this if you understood what you were talking about. Here is King's reference again. Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1181964
Unless you wanna say only the Fulani carry E3a and no one else does. That would be absurd. Those Genetic markers are only relevant when you are talking to non-Africans, for example, Eurocentrics and white people and want to prove to them ancient Egyptians were black but the same information becomes completely USELESS when talking to continental Africans like me who have no need to prove my identity.
lol.. Research on E3a has nothing to do with "proving the Egyptians were black." It is simply the primary patterning of the data in question among West Africans. It is again obvious that you do not know what you are talking about, and whether or not you are allegedly "continential African" does not have the slightest bearing on the matter at hand.
Now where does that leave your bold claim that the Fulani are E3b and it originates in West Africa? Your own source says EAST AFRICA and not West Africa.
You are obviously trading again in bogus red herrings. Here you attribute yet again a false claim to King. King did not say Fulani were E3b, but referred to E3a. He gave you specifically a study that showed their grouping with E3a carriers. Yet you make a knowingly false claim. No one is being fooled.
Ahmad obviously you did not read the information at the link provided by BrandonP. The evidence there is not based on pictures and statutes as you claim. Try to be an honest debater.
You should follow your own advice about "honesty" for with both me and King you openly lie about what we said.
Your pattern of distortion can also be seen in other threads where you claim:
The Bible does confirm that the Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.
It shows nothing of the sort. Here again you do not know what you are talking about or are engaging in yet another gross exaggeration and distortion. Egypt was not "ethnically cleansed" by Assyria or Babylonia in the Bible. Can you back up your claim about this alleged "ethnic cleansing' on Egypt in the Bible? Don't think you will escape by quoting Isaiah. Isaiah notes conflict between Assyria and Egypt and the taking of captives. This is routine warfare 101. It does not record any "ethnic cleansing" or depopulation of Egypt, nor does it record any removal of the population of all Egypt or even the "cleansing" of half of Egypt in favor of "new people." Your notion is nonsense. But let's give you a change to come clean. We ask you to back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.." Still waiting...
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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You mean you spend all about half an hour to tell me what I know first hand as an African? I don't need genetics to tell me that most Fulani are in West Africa. Its you who failed to read and comprehend simple English that says the Fulani are in 17 different countries spreading from West Africa, central Africa to the Sudan in East Africa. If you had acknowledged that Fulani are in West, central and East Africa you would not have heard a peep from me. As it is, you just limited the fulani to West Africa and that my friend is a BIG LIE and you had to be corrected.
quote:Originally posted by Energy: The thing is, the ancient Egyptians do clearly identify themselves as to who they are. They do so in the Egyptian book of the dead and the people they claim to be are in West Africa. Why this is ignored I have no idea.
My premise is what they claim to be is being ignored because because self-serving scientists and historians want to go with genetics and because the gene mapping does not agree with what the dead is saying, they ignore it.
Well, another approach is to look for the Hebrews in Africa because once you find the Hebrews you would find the ancient Egyptians close by. This is because, the historical account in the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day. The people the Hebrews live with in Africa are again in West Africa, namely the Akan and the Fulani.
Where in the Bible does it say that the ancient Hebrews never returned to Israel, or that the entire population moved to Egypt when attacked by Babylon? This is one crazy claim.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: The Bible does confirm that the Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.
It shows nothing of the sort. Here again you do not know what you are talking about or are engaging in yet another gross exaggeration and distortion. Egypt was not "ethnically cleansed" by Assyria or Babylonia in the Bible. Can you back up your claim about this alleged "ethnic cleansing' on Egypt in the Bible? Don't think you will escape by quoting Isaiah. Isaiah notes conflict between Assyria and Egypt and the taking of captives. This is routine warfare 101. It does not record any "ethnic cleansing" or depopulation of Egypt, nor does it record any removal of the population of all Egypt or even the "cleansing" of half of Egypt in favor of "new people." Your notion is nonsense. But let's give you a change to come clean. We ask you to back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.." Still waiting...
Don't cluster everything together from all over the place in one posting. Start a new thread on this and I would be happy to debate the issue with you.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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^^ No, you made the claim, and you also mention the ancient Hebrews again in this thread. Again we ask:
(1) that you back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.."
(2) that you back up your claim saying: "the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day."
Still waiting...
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Where in the Bible does it say that the ancient Hebrews never returned to Israel, or that the entire population moved to Egypt? This is one crazy claim.
It says so in the book of Jeremiah chapters 42 and 43. Also 2 Kings chapter 25.
Obviously you are IGNORANT of what is in the Bible yet you label what you have no knowledge about as, 'crazy?' Whew!
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: ^^ No, you made the claim, and you also mention the ancient Hebrews again in this thread. Again we ask:
(1) that you back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.."
(2) that you back up your claim saying: "the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day."
Still waiting...
Who is "WE?" Learn to speak for yourself Zarazan and not for everyone.
I made that statement in another thread. If you had a problem with it you should have mentioned it then and not bring it up here where it has no relevance to this discussion.
Alternatively you can always start a new thread on the topic and I would be happy to discuss it with you.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Have you all ever stop to think that Fulani may be from West Africa and in ancient times migrated to Egypt and for various reasons were forced to back-migrate across the Soudan?
Has this ever been mentioned by Diop or any of the others as to Fulani?
I didn't say it was fact. I proposed it as a possibility given the fact that we know people populated the Sahara and due to desertification were forced to migrate. There are numerous studies that confirm this. I bring up the question, is it possible that the "proto" Fulani (in part) were in the ancient Sahara and a portion of them went into Egypt while a good majority stayed in central and west Africa? This would be more realistic than to think for a second that a nomatic people only stayed in west Africa in ancient times.
Remember, Mansa Musa left from far west Africa to visit Mecca in more historically recent times. Are we to believe that other west Africans couldn't have made this trip?
There is an article written for the Ankh Journal that speaks on Fulani and Egyptian similarities that we can't say is chance. I need to find it and post the link. If you can't read French than you can still peep the pictures.
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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Listen zarahan, you sound like someone with a bruised ego. Get a grip of yourself. Calm down, and start this thread about the sacking of ancient Egypt by invaders and I promise to discuss it fully with you. OK!
CLAIM 1:- failure. (1) that you back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.."
CLAIM 2- failure. (2) that you back up your claim saying: "the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day."
Your Jeremiah and Kings reference do say the remnant of Judah moved to Egypt but this is a remnant of one tribe- Judah, not all Hebrews as a whole. And where does it say that Hebrews never returned to the land as you asserted? In fact, Israel as such did return to their land a number of years after Jeremiah. Quote Jeremiah 43: "but Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the captains of the forces, took all the remnant of Judah.." So your claim is still unsubstantiated.
Indeed, you now make a 3rd claim: that the Hebrews in Egypt became the Fulani of West Africa. And you also say these Hebrews became the Akan of West Africa too?
Friend, you have some heavy lifting to do to prove these claims.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: ^^Yoiu still havent backed up your claims.
CLAIM 1:- failure. (1) that you back up your claim that the Bible shows that the "Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land.."
CLAIM 2- failure. (2) that you back up your claim saying: "the Bible makes it very clear that when ancient Israel was attacked by the Babylonians, the Hebrews fled their homeland and took refuge with the ancient Egyptians. They never returned to Israel. They stayed in Africa up to this day."
Your Jeremiah and Kings reference do say the remnant of Judah moved to Egypt but this is a remnant of one tribe- Judah, not all Hebrews as a whole. And where does it say that Hebrews never returned to the land as you asserted? In fact, Israel as such did return to their land a number of years after Jeremiah. Quote Jeremiah 43: "but Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the captains of the forces, took all the remnant of Judah.." So your claim is still unsubstantiated.
Indeed, you now make a 3rd claim: that the Hebrews in Egypt became the Fulani of West Africa. And you also say these Hebrews became the Akan of West Africa too?
Friend, you have some heavy lifting to do to prove these claims.
Oh please, you obviously need more time to comprehend what you are reading from the Bible.
Let me make it easy for you.
First of all Israel was twelve tribes. Then they broke into two. One part was the ten tribe Kingdom and the other half which was the two tribe was called the house of Judah or Jews.
After the war with the Assyrians which the ten tribe kingdom lost, the Assyrians took the remnant of the ten tribe into exile. They are the ones usually referred to as the lost tribes. After they took the ten tribe into exile, the Assyrians populated the land with new people.
Later on the two tribe also went to war with Babylon and lost. It is the remnant of the two tribe aka the Jews that fled to Africa after the Babylonish invasion.
Meanwhile, members of the two tribe that went into exile in Babylon later returned and rebuilt Israel. After the death of Christ they too went to war with the Roman Empire and lost. They were also taken into exile and new people moved into their land.
I hope this brief summary helped.
quote: Indeed, you now make a 3rd claim: that the Hebrews in Egypt became the Fulani of West Africa. And you also say these Hebrews became the Akan of West Africa too?
LOL! Where did I say that? Are you sure you are not seeing things? Just cut and paste where I made that claim.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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I respect what you have to say and I think you know allot more about your ancestors then you give yourself credit for.
Moving on.
If we go by your premise and say that Fulanis carry a east African Marker which is E3a. Then that means there is really no west African markers and ALL West Africans are actually East Africans and no one has there origins in the West.
Let me just add The E3a mutation most likely arose in the central Saharan region, which explains why the East African populations from the Horn of Africa and upwards don’t have as much of this haplotype. That is not to say the E3a haplotype doesn’t occur at a relatively smaller level, but when compared to central, southern and western African regions, studies in the aforementioned regions show less. In fact in Egypt, E3a occurs more in the Upper Egyptian populations than the Northern portion of the country.
Earlier we had a study like this:
"There exists a west-to-east as well as a south-to-north clinal distribution with respect to E3a-M2.
Bamileke and Benin display the highest frequencies of E3a (100% and 95.0%, respectively), Kenya and Tanzania show intermediate values, and Oman (7.4%) and Egypt (2.8%) exhibit relatively low percentages of this subclade.
In sub-Saharan Africa, the east-to-west clinal distribution of E3b-M35 is inverse to that displayed by E3a-M2. The percentage of these M35 haplogroups is 35% in Tanzania and Egypt, whereas it is less than half of that value in Oman and Kenya. The level of this mutation is very low in the Tutsi and the Hutu samples (less then 3% in both) and drops to zero in the more western populations of Cameroon and Benin… From the above, as you can see the E3a has the highest frequencies in West African sample of Benin and Central African sample of Bamileke. Whereas the frequency drops as one moves to Northeast Africa. You must however note that, the Northernmost population of Egypt is sampled here, not the southern portions of the country. Nevertheless the M2 still occurs there. This could well be an indicator that earlier migrations to the Nile Valley, to the lowermost Nile region, predated the mutation of the M2. Low frequencies here may have been due to contribution of a later migration to the Northernmost Nile. Within Egypt itself, higher frequencies of E3a occurs in the southern populations than the northern ones. compared to central and western Africa, the frequency is still low in this area.
What must be understood is that E3b is Highest in East Africa and drops in Sub-Saharan West Africa. As you move to Northwest Africa, and indeed North Africa, E3b frequencies are high again.
Lets read what this study states about E3a in East Africa:
“..Kenya is the northern limit of E3a-M2, whereas J-12f2, described as a marker of the Neolithic expansion (Semino et al. 2000), extends southward only as far as Ethiopia…Although the E3a-M2 subclade is prevalent in our East African groups (Tutsi, Hutu, Kenya, and Tanzania) as well, these collections contain several additional Y-chromosomal types and, thus, demonstrate a much higher level of NRY diversity. Therefore, unlike its hegemony in the west, E3a-M2's contribution to the genetic landscape of East Africa was not great enough to completely erase pre-existing Y haplogroups and may have been diluted further by subsequent migratory movements from the north involving other Y chromosomes…When taken in context with previous studies, the current NRY data seem to reflect the linguistic boundaries demarcating southern Kenya as **the northern limit** of the Bantu speakers as they progressed eastward through the Central African corridor and southward along the Swahili coast. Kenya displays an E3a-M2 frequency of 52%, whereas the more northern populations, such as Ethiopia (Underhill et al. 2000; Semino et al. 2002), the Ethiopian Jews (Cruciani et al. 2002), and Sudan (Underhill et al. 2000), are characterized by frequencies close to or at zero.…”
Above quotes are all from a University of Chicago studies
E3a mutation must have occurred in western-central Saharan region, which as a result of the deserting of the area, led to migrations south, to the West African, central and Southern African regions, while others went to the Nile Valley.
And what are we to think of the West African saharan rock art that shows people like the Proto Fulani who lived in that Region around the time of AE
I would say Xyyman that E3a at the most has it's origin in the Central Sahara as do most if not all West Africans. This can account for why we find E3a in Modern Egyptians, and probably why the Benin hapgroup in ancient Egyptian remains.
Also I think you should read this thread to understand a little more about the Saharan Rock Art:
posted
zarahan it's past midnight here in London. I have to go to bed as I have work to do tomorrow. Thanks for the quick-fire chat. I enjoyed it.
I really want to discuss this other subject about the sacking of ancient Egypt with you so if you are game we can start on it tomorrow. Good night and God bless.
posted
I can't really go with your theory of ancient Egypt being ethnically cleansed and the population replaced. Sure I see Egyptian defeats in the historical record, and I see various foreign enemies posting garrison and such in Egypt but nothing as extensive as you claim. But if you have more info, by all means go ahead and post it.
On the Fulani I have no objection to any link with the Nile valley as long as the info is accurate. In the past too often it was claimed that a white influx of some sort made up most of their genes. How they got their small percentage of non-African gene markers is still an open question, but in any event, they are firmly and overwhelming a West African population. Perhaps a case can be made for movement of the Fulani via the Sahara, into both West Africa and the Nile Valley, but they are still West African.
On the Hebrews if as you say, "The people the Hebrews live with in Africa are again in West Africa, namely the Akan and the Fulani" I still think you have heavy lifting to prove that one. But again, if you have more detailed info, by all means it can't hurt to put it out there. It would be ironic if there are Hebrew elements in West Africa, just as they are among the Falasha in Ethiopia, although again, the Falasha group most closely with African groups. Quote:
: “..the Ethiopian Jews acquired their religion without substantial genetic admixture from Middle Eastern peoples and that they can be considered an ethnic group with essentially a continental African genetic composition." (Cruciani, et. al "A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa)
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
^ Indeed, this is just the usual attempt of trying to attribute West African culture achievement to Nile Valley people. They don't realize how insulting they are being to these West African cultures.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
DO WE KNOW THE MIGRATION PATTERN OF ANCIENT AFRICANS???
One can conclude that E3a, carried by the Fulanis, were present in AE during it's inception
from NG --
Between 50,000 and 15,000 years ago the desert area west of the Nile was inhabited sparsely, if at all, due to the region's aridity. During this period a succession of cultures flourished on the banks of the Nile. As rains came in from equatorial Africa in the early Holocene, the desert became less arid, and people moved into the Sahara from all directions. Between 10,000 and 6,000 B.C. archaeological evidence has been interpreted to suggest that the number of people living along the Nile fell. At the same time, in the desert west of the river there is evidence of an increase in population and of pastoral societies that built large stone megaliths and sculptures, developed astronomical knowledge, made the earliest known pottery in Africa, and, likely, domesticated cattle. There are rock paintings of people and animals, sometimes using themes that also appear later in Egypt, along with other aspects of the culture. After the climate again grew more arid after 6000 B.C. there is evidence for migration back into the Nile Valley.
also from ancestry.com:
Haplogroup E3a may have originated in North Africa, and spread south into Sub-Saharan
Africa. In North Africa, it is common among Berbers, Tunisians and Moroccan Arabs. This
paper, entitled "Origin, Diffusion and Differentiation of Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the
Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in The Mediterranean Area", discusses the
origin and spread of the subclade (described here as E-M2).
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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you mentioned that the Zulus migrated from the Sudan? That is the first I heard of this. Where did that information come from.
In one paper King posted it mentioned that, I believe it was Coon or some old racist fart, the Zulus and other Southern Africans (Bantus) were as handsome and light as Southern Europeans.
I am just trying to get my hands around the migration patterns of Africans
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I agree pics . . . .or video don't mean jack. . . on their own.
But the only FACT with your premise is. . .
QUOTE from Zaharan: As for the Fulani, most of their genes cluster with West African groups..
As I said many times. We as black people should always scrutinize the conclusion and inferences from these studies. Let them do the work and we draw our own inferences.
Does cluster= origin?????
As you can from my previous post about the time of the AE inception E3a was moving out of north and east Africa to South and West Africa. That MAY explain some of the cultural links of the Fulanis with AE.
Do we know enough about the migration patterns of Africans.
I am with Argie on this:
What is a West African?????
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
That E3a was and is present in the upper Nile Valley is not in dispute. The fact is we not only have E3a but autosomal genetic traits that tie Fulani to other West Africans and not Nile Valley folk! As for the separation of populations between the regions of North Africa and Sub-Sahara, we know this to be invalid since the Sahara did not always exist and North Africa was once fertile. If there is a connection between northeast Africans including those of the Nile Valley and northwest Africans, why can't it be a shared neolithic Saharan origin, instead of saying attributing all these west African groups to Egypt?!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Just wanted to be sure you (and others) weren't taken in by that blanket physical description they gave of 'the' Fulani phenotype that's been pushed for decades trying to make Fulani into some group unlike 'typical' Africans. One could easily say the same of any ethnic African group, that they stand out from the other Africans around them .
Fulani recognize as Fulani any who claim to be so and can show derivation from or intimate association with people known as a branch of the parent stock from centuries ago, especially Futa Toro or old Tekrour, whether or not they retained pulaaku and/or Fulfulde (Hausa-Fulani in particular are swiftly losing it as a mother tongue as are the eastern Takruri.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Altk. That was from Encyclopedia Britannica. They tend to be less bias than NG or other Encyclopedias.
BTW - I assume it is the language AND culture that group these people?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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you mentioned that the Zulus migrated from the Sudan? That is the first I heard of this. Where did that information come from.
In one paper King posted it mentioned that, I believe it was Coon or some old racist fart, the Zulus and other Southern Africans (Bantus) were as handsome and light as Southern Europeans.
I am just trying to get my hands around the migration patterns of Africans
You need to read Credo Mutwa's Indaba my Children and also Jordan Ngubane's Conflict of Minds. There are other works in which I need to find it. I will post it when I find it. You might also want to check The Restatement Of Bantu Origin and Meru History. Alfred M M'Imanyara
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Got me crossed eyed DJ. What are you saying?
What AUTOSOMAL trait? Haven't read the entire thread but enlighten us. What genetic trait besides the sex haplo-group?
What autosomal trait are localized to West Africa?
I have never been to the continent but from what I read earlier some of these Fulani's can be mistakenly be taken for stereotypical East Africans.
The conclusion. These autosomal features are found both in the EAst and West of the continent.
Correct me????!!!
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: That E3a was and is present in the upper Nile Valley is not in dispute. The fact is we not only have E3a but autosomal genetic traits that tie Fulani to other West Africans and not Nile Valley folk! As for the separation of populations between the regions of North Africa and Sub-Sahara, we know this to be invalid since the Sahara did not always exist and North Africa was once fertile. If there is a connection between northeast Africans including those of the Nile Valley and northwest Africans, why can't it be a shared neolithic Saharan origin, instead of saying attributing all these west African groups to Egypt?!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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** West African Fulbe ** This one starts with Fulani flute and evolves into an eclectic near trance gumbo of sahel/savannah vocals, instruments, rhythm and stylings.
And mind you there is modern Hausa-Fulani music infused with raga stylings but that's just what it is, a modern fusion.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
From Mali, a cinematic look at the various peoples, Bambara, Peul (Fulani), etc. It evokes traditional African religious, cultural, social concepts. This will give you a feel for the reality of Keme, Kush; of ancient African civilizations.
Watch Yeelen on You Tube; the entire film is in 10 min segments, which you can either download or view sequentially...
This is a very non-Hollywood type film made in 1987 by Souleyman Cisse:
quote:Originally posted by zarahan: On the Hebrews if as you say, "The people the Hebrews live with in Africa are again in West Africa, namely the Akan and the Fulani" I still think you have heavy lifting to prove that one. But again, if you have more detailed info, by all means it can't hurt to put it out there.
The Bible makes it clear in the book of Isaiah the Israelites fled to the ancient Egyptians for refuge. I am sure you'd agree given this large group of refugees, any group of Africans that were the ancient Egyptians, who played host to these refugees would remember them and pass it down in their oral history.
In line with this, Deham and Clapperton (1826, AppendixxII: 165) published a historical account in which Mohammed Bello the Sultan of the Fulani Empire had this to say about their neighbors;
The inhabitants of this province (Yarba), it is supposed, originated from the remnant of the children of Canaan, who were of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the West of Africa, was as it is stated, in consequence of their being driven by Yaa-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia, to the Western coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reached Yarba, where they fixed their residence. On their way they left, in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed all the tribes of Soodan, who inhabit the mountains, are originated from them.
The full account is in the Infakul Maisuri of Sultan Mohammed Bello, he died in 1837.
The point here is, the Sultan was justifying his aggressive wars against the Hebrews in West Africa and he claims they are not Africans at all but from the land of Canaan and therefore had to be brought under his rule.
The question is; 'How did he know his enemies are from the land of Canaan?' Answer; through oral history handed down from his ancestors of course. The ancestors in this case being the 'host' to whom the ancient Israelites fled to for refuge. The 'host' who the Bible identified as the ancient Egyptians. Therefore Mohammed Bello by that statement showed he is directly descended from the ancient Egyptians. Bello being the supreme ruler of ALL the Fulani, thus shows the Fulanii as the ancient Egyptians.
quote: It would be ironic if there are Hebrew elements in West Africa, just as they are among the Falasha in Ethiopia, although again, the Falasha group most closely with African groups. Quote:
: “..the Ethiopian Jews acquired their religion without substantial genetic admixture from Middle Eastern peoples and that they can be considered an ethnic group with essentially a continental African genetic composition." (Cruciani, et. al "A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa)
The Falashians are not Hebrews. If you read further on from the chapters in Jeremiah it tells you the condition of the Hebrews when they left Israel, they were HARD-CORE idol worshippers who worshipped myriads of gods. This is not the case with the Falasha. The Falasha don't worship idols.
Apart from that the Israelites that fled to Africa retained their name as Hebrews. Why would they change their name? The Falasha are called Falasha and not Hebrew. The people in West Africa on the other hand kept their name, Hebrew. The name is pronounced the same way as any Rabbi would pronounce it.
Note. Hebrew is a translation into English of the original name of the Israelites. The designation of the Israelites in the Hebrew language is not called Hebrew. The name, 'Hebrew' is just an English translation of the original.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Got me crossed eyed DJ. What are you saying?
What AUTOSOMAL trait? Haven't read the entire thread but enlighten us. What genetic trait besides the sex haplo-group?
What autosomal trait are localized to West Africa?
I have never been to the continent but from what I read earlier some of these Fulani's can be mistakenly be taken for stereotypical East Africans.
The conclusion. These autosomal features are found both in the EAst and West of the continent.
Correct me????!!!
Okay, a study of autosomal chromosomes on African populations was posted here years ago, I believe by Rasol, and the conclusion is that Fulani are no different from other West Africans where as they are different from east African groups. While autosomes are recombinant and thus can't give you any information on specific lineages they can tell you about certain affinities about a general population. And overall there is nothing to suggest that they are an immigrant group from Egypt but are indigenous to the area!!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Makes sense. IF that was the case then that should be the end of the discussion.
Anyone has this study????
There are un-answered questions irregardsless.
1. Did the study determine that the East African Fulanis also cluster with West Africans? I believe Energy stated that they can found across the Sahara belt. East to West. See where I am going with this?
2. If they share the same language and culture then where was the point of origin?
3. From what Altk and others are saying seems like they originated from the around the Eastern Sahara. Same as the AE. That may explain the similarities in culture and language words.
4. Look like one group went East/North and the other West/South. . .to escape the expanding Sahara.
Again. . .anyone have this study DJ is talking about? You vets should have it. . . . why start the thread to begin with if this study was posted before?
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Got me crossed eyed DJ. What are you saying?
What AUTOSOMAL trait? Haven't read the entire thread but enlighten us. What genetic trait besides the sex haplo-group?
What autosomal trait are localized to West Africa?
I have never been to the continent but from what I read earlier some of these Fulani's can be mistakenly be taken for stereotypical East Africans.
The conclusion. These autosomal features are found both in the EAst and West of the continent.
Correct me????!!!
Okay, a study of autosomal chromosomes on African populations was posted here years ago, I believe by Rasol, and the conclusion is that Fulani are no different from other West Africans where as they are different from east African groups. While autosomes are recombinant and thus can't give you any information on specific lineages they can tell you about certain affinities about a general population. And overall there is nothing to suggest that they are an immigrant group from Egypt but are indigenous to the area!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Let's be clear about what I'm saying. From this threads beginning my position on this topic is:
quote: Wait a minute. My position is that the first cultural-archaeological evidence for Fulani traits appear in Late Stone Age Sahara at Tassili n'Ajjer in southeast Algeria.
. . . .
Despite the ethno-archaeological fact of Fulani cultural attributes first appearing in Late Stone Age south east Algeria, some continue to posit an Ancient Egyptian origin as late as the 12th or even the 18th dynasty. Now how anachronistic can an argument be then that?
In general the current Sahara, sahel, savannah and most woodland West African ethnies were resident in the Green Sahara from which they moved south and southwest to where they are now found.
...
Everything we historically know about the Fulani leads us to the conclusion of a Green Saharan origin followed by nature generated southwest drift over the millenia to the Hodh and the Senegal, from whence in recent written historic times they consciously migrated eastward settling in the Nile Valley no more that 200 years ago at best.
I hope I am understood. I do favor the idea that the once Fertile 'Sahara' was the home to many a people who moved north, east, south, and southwest to in time become one of the human components making up the present ethnies bordering and beyond the now arid Sahara Desert.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 3. From what Altk and others are saying seems like they originated from the around the Eastern Sahara. Same as the AE. That may explain the similarities in culture and language words.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Let's be clear about what I'm saying. From this threads beginning my position on this topic is:
quote: . . . . from whence in recent written historic times they consciously migrated eastward settling in the Nile Valley no more that 200 years ago . . ..
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 3. From what Altk and others are saying seems like they originated from the around the Eastern Sahara. Same as the AE. That may explain the similarities in culture and language words.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
So there you have it. West Africans with stereotypical East African features.
BTW - Anyone have the study DJ referenced.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Don't let these people turn your head around right after Sukkot. The Fulani are descended from the Hyksos/Shepherd Kings/Israelites.
When the Fulani slaves came to America in the early 1800's they claimed Egypt. They were IN SLAVERY. Many of the Egyptian discoveries weren't even done yet. I go by them. They had no reason to lie.
Energy and xyyman got it all backward. First of all the Fulani were enslaved by the Manden who were the real movers in shakers in the West african kingdoms. The Tuareg began Ti-N-Buk-Too!
The Manden created N'Ghana, Mali, N'Gabou, and Songhai is related to Manden.
The Fulani were enslaved along the far Western Coast of Africa by the Mande. Our ancestor Prince AbdurRahman Diallo was enslaved fighting the Hebos (Igbos) in Nigeria. He ended up in Mississipi. He came from Fuuta Djallon.
The Nigerian Fulani are not all E1b1a. They have the R1b-P25 Y chromosome which is identical to the Sephardic Jews and other Euro/ME groups. The Fulani of Cameroon, the Adamawa Woodaabe came from Nigeria. They all have R1b Y chromosomes in the majority. Then the left these areas and went to Sudan were 60+ % of Fulbe and 50+% of Hausa are R1b!
Good Grief! Get your facts straight.
The mtDNA of the Fulbe from their mothers is similar to the Mandenka and Serer. They speak their mother's tongue which is from the northern branch of West Atlantic like Wolof and Serer.
The R1b M 173 Y chromosome found in Israel to Egypt to East Africa is concentrated in the Fulbe and has been found in African American men in small percentages.
Posts: 1115 | From: GOD Bless the USA | Registered: May 2006
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In his article Milk Allergy and Lactose Intolerance (May 2002), Dr Steinman gives the following figures for lactose intolerance for children over 5 years old: "90-95% of black individuals and 20-25% of white individuals throughout the world". In fact, the picture is much more complicated. Many Asian populations, especially people from Far East, have rates of lactase deficiency approaching 100%. Additionally, there are a few groups in Africa, such as the Fulani, who have relatively low rates of lactose intolerance (around 20-25 percent). Conversely, some European populations like the Swedes are almost completely lactose tolerant (apx. 4% deficiency). Given that most of the world does not fall neatly into 'black' or 'white' categories, such variation is important. In fact, the world average for lactose intolerance is probably much closer to the 90-95% range given for 'blacks.'
Nevertheless, the Fulani are West Africans i.e. Black people and got caught up in the slave trade.
Posts: 1115 | From: GOD Bless the USA | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: al Takruri!!!
My God! My God!
Don't let these people turn your head around right after Sukkot. The Fulani are descended from the Hyksos/Shepherd Kings/Israelites.
When the Fulani slaves came to America in the early 1800's they claimed Egypt. They were IN SLAVERY. Many of the Egyptian discoveries weren't even done yet. I go by them. They had no reason to lie.
Energy and xyyman got it all backward. First of all the Fulani were enslaved by the Manden who were the real movers in shakers in the West african kingdoms. The Tuareg began Ti-N-Buk-Too!
The Manden created N'Ghana, Mali, N'Gabou, and Songhai is related to Manden.
The Fulani were enslaved along the far Western Coast of Africa by the Mande. Our ancestor Prince AbdurRahman Diallo was enslaved fighting the Hebos (Igbos) in Nigeria. He ended up in Mississipi. He came from Fuuta Djallon.
The Nigerian Fulani are not all E1b1a. They have the R1b-P25 Y chromosome which is identical to the Sephardic Jews and other Euro/ME groups. The Fulani of Cameroon, the Adamawa Woodaabe came from Nigeria. They all have R1b Y chromosomes in the majority. Then the left these areas and went to Sudan were 60+ % of Fulbe and 50+% of Hausa are R1b!
Good Grief! Get your facts straight.
The mtDNA of the Fulbe from their mothers is similar to the Mandenka and Serer. They speak their mother's tongue which is from the northern branch of West Atlantic like Wolof and Serer.
The R1b M 173 Y chromosome found in Israel to Egypt to East Africa is concentrated in the Fulbe and has been found in African American men in small percentages.
You threw a lot of stuff in there. But we need a little something called. . . . . evidence. Without it . . .it is all BS and fairytale. I am a black man and have no problem saying I am E3a, decendant of slaves from. . .I was told West Africa.
These are the facts about me. From the evidence provided thus far it seems like the Fulani's are NOT what/who you think they are.
Looks like they came from the same ancestral peopels as AE(ie Saharans). share the same aquiline features. ALL ARE BLACK AFRICANS.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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