"It is interesting to note that the oldest so-called naturally preserved body, or natural mummy of an Egyptian ever found - "Ginger"... This body (now in the British Museum), dating from 3400B.C. was almost perfectly preserved in a shallow grave in the hot, dry sands near Gebelein [Per Hathor] in Southern Upper Egypt"
A modern artificially(Henna?) colored Hair on an admixed East African(notice gray hair on the sides) and 'Ginger' 3400BCE Predynastic mummy.
Ginger's natural wheat to copper skin tone is well preserved. Blood pools mostly in muscle tissue after death and is restricted by the bent joints. Also note the greatest decay is in the large blood engorged muscle tissues. Ginger's hair color after death is probably the result of UV exposure and his natural brown hair would have been similar to the other Predynastic mummies -
You claim the East African man is "admixed" but you say the same for jet-black Nubians who according to you are "60% cockazoid"! LOL
Henna usually leaves a reddish hue not blonde and as I just pointed out hair among some black Africans does actually turn somewhat blonde in old age when pigment is lost before they turn gray or white. Speaking of which, the same process happens in decomposition of hair after a person's death where eumelanin is the first to be lost while phaelomelanin or light pigment may still be retained. This process explains 'Ginger' who as a Nile Valley African living in Chalcolithic times would never have been an actual red-head, you moron.
By the way, Ausar and Wally are two different people, dummy. The former is an ACTUAL EGYPTIAN from Upper Egypt and guess what, even openly acknowledges that he and his people are black and African. So get off that cockasian nonsense.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You always mistake me for other people whether its wally or others. You can continue if you wish.
I came to Egyptsearch with an open mind and a love for Egyptology. Its too bad this website has been reduced to what it is today.
I admit you are a step above most racialists that have posted here. You have set the standard for Mediterranean power and pride. I commend you. Please continue to post here.
I am not Wally or Jari nor any other poster on this message board.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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You always mistake me for other people whether its wally or others. You can continue if you wish.
I came to Egyptsearch with an open mind and a love for Egyptology. Its too bad this website has been reduced to what it is today.
I admit you are a step above most racialists that have posted here. You have set the standard for Mediterranean power and pride. I commend you. Please continue to post here.
I am not Wally or Jari nor any other poster on this message board.
I also came here with an interest in AE to discuss with intelligent reasoning people not sock puppet trolls. You have admitted in the past of not moderating which is good for freedom of opinion but at least control the sock puppets who take up some bandwidth. If the mods don't do this they will be accused of creating puppets to incite interest and to increase ES ad revenue. These sock puppet trolls not the auto spam are turning people away.
Posts: 644 | Registered: May 2010
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^ YOU are the only sockpuppet troll here-- a sockpuppet of Dienekes Pontikos that is! For it is YOU who keeps posting racialist nonsense of Cockasoid peoples responsible for not only Egypt but Nubia and every advanced culture on the African continent, even though you get DEBUNKED every time!
Unlike your mentor Pontikos or your mistress Mathilda, at least posters are allowed a voice no matter how insane their sayings might be as is the case with you. So stop your b|tching. You're just mad cuz you get whipped here more times than a "negro" slave in an antebellum south plantation! Don't blame Ausar or any moderator for that problem! LOLPosts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You always mistake me for other people whether its wally or others. You can continue if you wish.
I came to Egyptsearch with an open mind and a love for Egyptology. Its too bad this website has been reduced to what it is today.
I admit you are a step above most racialists that have posted here. You have set the standard for Mediterranean power and pride. I commend you. Please continue to post here.
I am not Wally or Jari nor any other poster on this message board.
I also came here with an interest in AE to discuss with intelligent reasoning people not sock puppet trolls. You have admitted in the past of not moderating which is good for freedom of opinion but at least control the sock puppets who take up some bandwidth. If the mods don't do this they will be accused of creating puppets to incite interest and to increase ES ad revenue. These sock puppet trolls not the auto spam are turning people away.
LOL do you really still think me and Ausar are the same person. Grow up!!
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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^You're so stuck on AE not being black or not looking black that you missed the point. He is not showing a resemblance in features or phenotype. He is showing a resemblance in culture. The similarities is the grassland, boat, and spear. If the whites wanted to portray AE, they could have easily found similarities within modern day egypt, sudan, or somewhere in Africa instead of drawing a picture displaying a convincing culture yet depicting them as white. Where in Europe you find that lifestyle? [/QUOTE]
Betty Boo is on point here, some more on the Reed Boats..
Photos show local workers in transportation of reeds for construction of Thor Heyerdahl's boat RA March 24th. The boat builders are men of the Beduma people who live on the Northern shore of Lake Chad, "because they are the greatest living experts on the construction and sailing of reed boats. The papyrus reeds used in the boat-building are brought by river boat from the Nile marshes of the Sudan and are stockpiled in the shadow of some minor pyramids before processed for the uses in "ship yard" a few miles south of Giza.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Non-prophet, I have no control over so-called sock puppet accounts. I have no authority over the ancient Egypt section. I cannot ban people. I will ask you again to stop invoking my name and stop trying to connect me to other posters.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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^ Dienekes' sockpuppet, I mean Nonproof, is of the mentality that because so many people here disagree with his twisted views then they must be aliases of the same person. LOL I'm telling you, this boy is living in a fantasy land-- the same land where he gets "caucasian" Egyptians and 60% "caucasian" Nubians. LOLPosts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^You're so stuck on AE not being black or not looking black that you missed the point. He is not showing a resemblance in features or phenotype. He is showing a resemblance in culture. The similarities is the grassland, boat, and spear. If the whites wanted to portray AE, they could have easily found similarities within modern day egypt, sudan, or somewhere in Africa instead of drawing a picture displaying a convincing culture yet depicting them as white. Where in Europe you find that lifestyle?
Betty Boo is on point here, some more on the Reed Boats..
Photos show local workers in transportation of reeds for construction of Thor Heyerdahl's boat RA March 24th. The boat builders are men of the Beduma people who live on the Northern shore of Lake Chad, "because they are the greatest living experts on the construction and sailing of reed boats. The papyrus reeds used in the boat-building are brought by river boat from the Nile marshes of the Sudan and are stockpiled in the shadow of some minor pyramids before processed for the uses in "ship yard" a few miles south of Giza.
[/QUOTE]
The first line being mentioned in Doug's post was
Doug M "Obviously most features labeled as "caucasian" have absolutely nothing to do with Europe or the Caucasus mountains. " (picture of Indian people)
When you start a post like that it is natural to assume that the topic is features.
He also says in the same post:
"This (river fishing) scene that they deliberately distort is a scene that has been found all across Africa since time immemorial with Africans hunting and fishing among reeds and lilies in lakes and rivers that have been there for thousands of years. Not to mention those that came and went due to temperature and environmental changes."
-he said the scene is deliberately distorted not saying how in a post whose first line is on features.
"One day, last spring, I was helping my son navigate the web to research Mesopotamia, specifically Ur. I was really surprised about the photos we found. There were lots of pictures of reed boats and houseboats gathered in a water-community. Many anthropologists believe that the Tigris and Euphrates water communities have changed little in the last several thousand years."
Marsh Arab region,reed islands,wetlands, Iraq
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You are slow, the point is not Reed Boats in particular anyone can post reed boats, the whole point is the Style of Reed Boats native to the Nile Valley is also Native to other Parts in Africa specifically the Chad River Basin where I quote..
"The boat builders are men of the Beduma people who live on the Northern shore of Lake Chad, "because they are the greatest living experts on the construction and sailing of reed boats."
Also the Type of Reeds used by Egyptians was Papyrus Reed which is obviously different than the Reed Boats in your Arabian Pic..
]Cyperus papyrus (papyrus sedge or paper reed) is a monocot belonging to the sedge family Cyperaceae. It is a herbaceous perennial native to Africa, and forms tall stands of reed-like swamp vegetation in shallow water.
Cyperus papyrus or the Papyrus Plant was the Flower and Symbol of Lower Egypt, and the Nymphaea caerulea, or Egyptian Lotus the Symbol for Upper Egypt both are native to Africa...
Open Lotus Flower Columns(Representing Upper Egypt)
Hey Jari, you know the Lyingass is just helplessly desperate. She will try to connect Egypt to anything outside of Africa first before its African neighbors whom it is closely related to.
As for the Nile reed boats, it just gets worse for her!...
Nubian (Mesolithic) Boat
Discovery The earliest evidence for an ancient boat on the Nile is a rock art pictograph that dates to the Mesolithic. The El Salha Archaeological Project of the Italian Institute for African and Oriental Studies has been working in the central Sudan since the fall of 2000. The project's priority is the archeology of the Mesolithic and Neolithic cultures of this region of the Nile Valley. Of great interest to maritime archeology is an elongated burial mound on the west bank of the Nile, 25 km south of Omdurman. Beneath this Post-Meriotic burial and disturbed deposits was a compact, homogeneous layer of the Khartoum Mesolithic. Diagnostic gastropods were in this layer and radiocarbon dating delineates a time span of 7050 to 6820 BC.
An important artifact that speaks to the early history of boat design and ship building was found in the Khartoum Mesolithic layer. A recognizable outline of Nile boat had been cut into a granite pebble. This is the oldest known representation of a Nile boat, and the oldest depiction of a boat that is more advanced in design than a canoe. The dating of this pictograph pushes back the earliest evidence for Nile boats by 3,000 years. Boat Design / Steering Some detail and aspects of boat construction can be inferred from the image on the granite pebble, as first reported by D. Usai and S. Salvatori in December, 2007. The back half of the boat image is in the best state of preservation. A steering system and cabin are situated at the approximate center of the boat. A composite steering system can be discerned with a tiller placed at a greater than 45° angle with a long pole ending in an ovoid blade. Tiller and pole with blade are fixed to the top of a vertical yoke. Boat and steering system design resemble those painted on the walls of Badarian huts and pottery jars. There are similarities with some boats depicted in rock engravings in Nubia (Sudan); and those painted on walls and pottery in the Gerzan and Nagada cultures of Predynastic Egypt. “In particular the image of a steering gear fixed to a vertical pole inserted in the stern upper hull can be found in boat rock engravings from the Abka region in Sudanese Nubia; and from Akkad which is south of the third Cataract on the left bank of the Nile in the Northern Dongola Reach. The blade strongly resembled those of the boat of El Khab. This kind of composite helm was still in use on Egyptian ships built during the New Kingdom. The dome-like cabin on the upper hull is also a well known feature on boat representations dating to the Gerzean and Predynastic periods in Egypt and Nubia.” The Khartoum Mesolithic boat may be said to represent the end of important, coordinated developments in boat design. The specific features of the boat depicted on the rock from the 16 D-5 site must have been designed earlier in the Nubian Mesolithic. As this approach to hull design, cabin layout and steering mechanism are found on boats thousands of years later, it had been judged the best possible architecture for small and medium size Nile boats during the Khartoum Mesolithic. As the first and best choice in Nile boat nautical architecture, this design persisted in boat building tradition for several thousand years. Slight modifications would produce either a fishing or cargo boat...
By the way, contrary to what the Lyingass says column construction was part of some Sub-Saharan traditions, particularly West Africa. I have seen sketches and art reproductions made by European explorers showing such columns (before they were destroyed by European colonial forces).
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lyingfool: "This (river fishing) scene that they deliberately distort is a scene that has been found all across Africa since time immemorial with Africans hunting and fishing among reeds and lilies in lakes and rivers that have been there for thousands of years. Not to mention those that came and went due to temperature and environmental changes."
-he said the scene is deliberately distorted not saying how in a post whose first line is on features.
Of course Doug had no need to explain how the picture was distorted. Just look at it!
^ White people dressed in African garb, wearing African braided hair styles, and sailing on an African reed boat in an African swamp! LOL
Nothing like reality.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^Great data- Djehuti and Jari. I guess it shows that European obsession with "consuming" Ancient Egypt. They have not only done it figuratively but literally as well. According to the book below, so obsessed were Europeans with eating the dead bodies of ancient Egyptians for healing, when Egyptian material ran short they created fake mummies out of executed European criminals, aged, poor and those dead of hideous diseases, "seasoned" them with sand, bitumen and sunlight, and then passed their flesh off as the flesh of Egyptian mummies- an early example of "pharmaceutical" fraud? Even today among white occultists, the powdered flesh of Egyptians mummies apparently can still be purchased..
Egyptian mummies. 2004. by Carol Andrews
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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LOL That is as disturbing as it is hilarious Zarahan. Imagine white Europeans cannibalizing black Africans! And yet the former called the latter "savages" and "cannibals"! Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^Indeed. And to stay on topic the only puppets would be those fake mummies created by Europeans as part of their medical science.
Speaking of which, another aspect to this European obsession is Mummy Mania, not only consumption of flesh but a fascination with mummies in popular white culture as documented in film, books, art etc.. On the darker side, mummy mania means that the remains of native peoples are kept in European museums like wares on display, even while generally, the remains of excavated Europeans from past are not treated in the same manner, and are reburied. The author below notes the contradiction.
Why are not these remains repatriated to their place of origin? They have already been analyzed at length, with extensive photography, DNA and other measurements already taken and on the books. Why are Europeans hanging on to these remains of native peoples of the Nile valley? And why are some native Egyptians collaborating with the Europeans to this end, after so long? Note I never said these remains should not be studied, but why keep them on display decade after decade- for some Egyptian remains well nigh a century in European hands?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^You're so stuck on AE not being black or not looking black that you missed the point. He is not showing a resemblance in features or phenotype. He is showing a resemblance in culture. The similarities is the grassland, boat, and spear. If the whites wanted to portray AE, they could have easily found similarities within modern day egypt, sudan, or somewhere in Africa instead of drawing a picture displaying a convincing culture yet depicting them as white. Where in Europe you find that lifestyle?
Betty Boo is on point here, some more on the Reed Boats..
Photos show local workers in transportation of reeds for construction of Thor Heyerdahl's boat RA March 24th. The boat builders are men of the Beduma people who live on the Northern shore of Lake Chad, "because they are the greatest living experts on the construction and sailing of reed boats. The papyrus reeds used in the boat-building are brought by river boat from the Nile marshes of the Sudan and are stockpiled in the shadow of some minor pyramids before processed for the uses in "ship yard" a few miles south of Giza.
The first line being mentioned in Doug's post was
Doug M "Obviously most features labeled as "caucasian" have absolutely nothing to do with Europe or the Caucasus mountains. " (picture of Indian people)
When you start a post like that it is natural to assume that the topic is features.
He also says in the same post:
"This (river fishing) scene that they deliberately distort is a scene that has been found all across Africa since time immemorial with Africans hunting and fishing among reeds and lilies in lakes and rivers that have been there for thousands of years. Not to mention those that came and went due to temperature and environmental changes."
-he said the scene is deliberately distorted not saying how in a post whose first line is on features.
"One day, last spring, I was helping my son navigate the web to research Mesopotamia, specifically Ur. I was really surprised about the photos we found. There were lots of pictures of reed boats and houseboats gathered in a water-community. Many anthropologists believe that the Tigris and Euphrates water communities have changed little in the last several thousand years."
Marsh Arab region,reed islands,wetlands, Iraq [/QUOTE]
^I said where in europe you find that lifestyle. Ancient Egyptians weren't white nor were they iraquis from euphrates or tigris river.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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^^Ancient reed boats are reported in Corfu, Greece. According to one website: "These reed boats of northwestern of Corfu are remarkably like those found on lakes Sana (Budge 1960) and Zwai(Doresse 1959) of Ethiopia." -- Sordinas A (1970) "Stone implements from northwestern Corfu", Anthropological Research Center , University of Memphis.
Do you think the European museums should return the remains of the Nile Valley natives? How come they don't have as many European bodies on museum display? Why is King Tut of Egypt's body hauled around, but not say, King Alfred the Great of Britain, or Augustus Caesar of Rome?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: How many here have heard of Mapungubwe?
quote: The apartheid regime remained tight lipped for more than 40 years. The evidence was only made public a few years after the first democratically elected government came into power (1994)
Mapungubwe was home to an advanced culture of people. The civilization thrived as a sophisticated trading center from around 1200 to 1300 AD. It was the center of the largest kingdom in the sub-continent, where a highly sophisticated people traded gold and ivory with China, India and Egypt. The region had a population of more than 5 000 inhabitants.
With the advent of radiocarbon dating in the 1950's, it was discovered that nearby Bambandyanalo had been settled 300 years before Mapangubwe, in about 1000 AD, and that its people had been in continuous occupation for 200 years. Archeologists also uncovered human burials that contained glass beads and copper bracelets along with profusely decorated pottery bowls, pots and beakers. Animal burials consisting of skulls or jawbones also contained copper ornaments, seashells and pottery fragments.
Gold was mined in haematite at Ngwenya, and iron ore and copper at Phalaborwa. Virtually all the copper and tin deposits of the Northern Transvaal were worked, and hundreds of workings remain.
From this site a massive collection of artifacts was recovered and hidden in South African and European museums. They show a spectacular array of various pottery, bead and ivory cultural artifacts which suggest extensive trade in and outside of Africa, with Asia. But of course, they lied about these things and still are. Blombos cave comes to mind here as well as another example of things hidden until after apartheid, but I am sure there is more that is being hidden.
Keep in mind that these are the same sort of tiny glass beads that are found all over Africa from East Africa, to South Africa to West Africa. And they want us to believe this simply was an Asian import. This is obviously untrue. There was trade but the traditions for bead making in Africa are too ancient to have started with Asian imports.
And on top of that the beads made in Egypt are 5000 years old and were not being made in 1000AD. So any similarities to those beads are older than that.
quote: The Mapungubwe Museum collection is a dynamic collection, its main purpose being to serve as a conservation, research, education and public information resource which is essential to the interpretation and dissemination of knowledge on Mapungubwe in all its diversity. The main body of the museum collection consists mainly of the cultural objects or artefacts associated with Mapungubwe, which includes a small portion of specifically declared national heritage objects. The Mapungubwe National Heritage Collection includes 174 declared heritage objects associated with most of the Iron Age settlements known as Mapungubwe Hill, the Southern Terrace, K2 and Bambandyanalo It was gazetted on 10 October 1997 on account of its archaeological and historical importance under the auspices of the former National Monuments Council, now known as the South African Heritage Resources Agency (SAHRA). The museum collection is protected as an official repository of heritage objects complying with national and international museum policy and professional standards of the South African Museums Association and the International Council of Museums. The Mapungubwe collection, both on exhibition and in storage, comprises mainly original archaeological objects or artefacts made available for exhibition, conservation and research purposes. The collection consists of metal objects and fragments of gold, copper and iron, ivory, bone tools, animal bones, trade glass beads, marine and terrestrial shells, organic materials such as fragile fibres, seeds, charred sorghum and millet, clay figurines, a few dinosaur fossil remains, Chinese celadon fragments, low-fired ceramics and thousands upon thousands of potsherds and animal bone fragments. This collection does not exist in isolation; its management and conservation is influenced by several cultural, academic, heritage and educational trends, specialisation by other tertiary institutions, government, public and private organisations with similar interests in this unique collection, and the care of the archaeological site itself as a National and World Heritage Site.
Keep in mind that when you hear the word African trade bead you should remember that Africans trading beads (and everything else) goes back into prehistory. When Europeans use the term they are referring to the trade of European beads in Africa. The purpose of this trade is similar to the purpose of other European activities in Africa, which is to dominate trade in Africa. As a result of the trade as well as conquest, older traditions were lost and many replaced with European trade crafts. This happened in the area of textiles, metalwork, beads and everything else. Europeans like to take advantage of this fact to pretend that Africans weren't practicing these things before they came and started trading, but that obviously is not the case.
But again, this is obvious given the large number of artifacts held in both public and private collections from Across Africa, most of which acquired during the early colonial era.
quote: And to follow up on this, Europeans are still doing research on these beads found in Southern And East Africa, tying them to trade with Asia and Egypt. However, we must keep in mind that this is still prone to lies and half truths. African bead traditions go back at least 100,000 years and encompassed a wide variety of styles and materials, so it is impossible to claim that all this originated with trade from Asia or anywhere else. The Egyptian tradition is but one expression of a more ancient African tradition, not vice-versa.
quote: The majority of glass beads found in Sub-Saharan Africa pre dating European contact are from Indian or Sri Lankan origin with a recent paper (Dussubieux et al. 2008) demonstrating contact between Kenyan sites and Chaul in the West coast of India for the 9th to the 19th century. Previously analysed samples from the East coast of Africa and Madagascar could potentially fit this group but further work is still needed. Whether Chaul was the single port for trade in glass beads or if it was part of several competing ports on that coast is still unknown. Data from a site in South Africa, near the borders with Botswana and Zimbabwe, has tentatively assigned some beads to Islamic 8th century compositions[19]. This suggests that the old camel caravan routes that connected this region to Egypt and the Mediterranean were still in use even for glass at a site with easy access, via the Limpopo river, to the Indian Ocean trade and therefore to the West Indian glass that seem to be the most common.
However, one thing that this research does show is that Africa was not isolated from the outside world and it also should be pointed out that trade was a two way affair, bearing ideas and technologies in both directions. Hence just like Europeans try and play up influence of outsiders on Africa, they need to point out the fact of African influence on outsiders, which goes back to time immemorial.
All traditional ZULU beadwork, excluding items used by ritual specialists, relates in someway to courtship and marriage. According to Regina Twala (African Studies, Volume 10, no 3 1951, pp 113 - 123), it also helps to regulate behaviour between individuals of opposite gender. This exclusively feminine craft has an inituitive fluency found only in inspired forms of poetry and visual art. Beadworkers are unware of a "system" such as that imposed upon language by spelling rules and grammar.
However, no true art is without discipline, so ZULU craftswomen accept certain fundamentals:
* Beadwork communicates between unrelated males and females, avoiding the discomfort of direct initial discourse on the sensitive subject of personal relations.
* Beadwork flows from females, the designers and manufactures, to males - their traditional clients.
* Men wear beadwork to show involvement with women they may marry, incestuous implications preclude beaded gifts from mothers, sisters and daugters.
* Beadwork symbolism is encoded within a limited number of colours and geometric figures.
* Colour symbols have alternative values but those assigned to geometric figures are constant.
* Values assigned to colours are in groups of positive and negative alternatives, excepting white, which has no negative connotation.
* Symbolic coding is influenced by a number of factors
1. The combination and arrangement of colours. 2. The use and nature of an object. 3. The deliberate breaking of rules by which these factors operate. ... It utilizes one basic geometric figure - THE TRIANGLE - and, where this craft was studied, a maximum of seven colours.
Interpreting beadwork is much like understanding the ZULU language when one has mastered the grammar and aquired a reasonable vocabulary; but meaning is often obscured by the wealth of poverbs and imagery. This also applies to beadwork, which combines art and linguistic logic. The Triangle
The three corners of a triangle represents FATHER, MOTHER and CHILD. As a basic unit of design it can:
* Be inverted, apex pointing downward. This signifies the unfulfilled man principle (Unmarried man) or...
* Be positioned with the apex pointing downwards, signifying the unfulfilled female principle (Unmarried woman).
* Join with another along the base to form a diamond (stylised egg, a universal fertility symbol) representing the complete female principle (Married Woman).
* Be positioned with apexes meeting, an hourglass shape, symbol of the complete male principle (married man).
quote: The Altes Museum organizes an exhibition showing the Swiss sculptor’s passion for ancient Egypt: Unlike other modern artists, Alberto Giacometti (1901-1966) lived obsessed by Egyptian aesthetics. The Altes Museum in Berlin celebrates the Egiptomania of Alberto Giacometti through twelve sculptures and two sketches by the Swiss sculptor, which today share the same space with the bust of Nefertiti and other works from the museum’s extensive Egyptian collection.
Cult of the Artist: Giacometti, the Egyptian, creates risky analogies between the mute and serene pose of ancient statues from the distant past and the famous elongated sculptures forged in the twentieth century. This experiment is the fruit of labor of two Egyptian art enthusiasts, Wildung and Christian Klemm, members of the sculptor’s foundation in Zurich, who stressed the “Egyptian” in Giacometti, as seen in the “structure” of his works, “the intensity in the gaze” of his characters, and “the spatial distribution of his figures.”
Next to Nefertiti, a muse for Berliners who see in her the most beautiful woman in this city, the spectator finds a bust of Annette Arm, the flesh and blood muse who Giacometti met in Geneva and whom he married in 1949, back in Paris, the city that most inspired him and where he lived for many years. The statuette on a large pedestal, 1952, shows clear plastic symmetries with the figure of an Egyptian gravedigger dating from 1850 BC. The most monumental work of Giacometti in this show is that of the Marching Man, which is oddly contrasted with a wooden figure only ten centimeters in height from 1900 BC. Equally curious parallels exist between the Cube in bronze by the sculptor, with engravings, and the granite statue in the form of a cube of Senenmut, full of hieroglyphics.
And while on south Afica, look at this traditional form of Zulu "step" dancing, which normally occurs with shield and spear, which is part of the rites of passage, manhood rituals and fraternal bonding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0340CiEUN0s&feature=relatedPosts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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The statuette on a large pedestal, 1952, shows clear plastic symmetries with the figure of an Egyptian gravedigger dating from 1850 BC. The most monumental work of Giacometti in this show is that of the Marching Man, which is oddly contrasted with a wooden figure only ten centimeters in height from 1900 BC. Equally curious parallels exist between the Cube in bronze by the sculptor, with engravings, and the granite statue in the form of a cube of Senenmut, full of hieroglyphics.
Good info Doug. It would be interesting to see how other European artists used ancient Egyptian styles and themes. Giacometti dealt with the subject in a serious way, with the most arduous work. At the other end of the pole is cheap kitsch, cheap, tasteless imitations for popular consumption. Both sides bracket Egyptomania in art. Hollywood and film art of course, shows some of the worse tendencies.
Ausar - what is the general art scene in Egypt today as regards use of the ancient heritage? Is there a lot of kitsch for the tourist trade, or more serious work? or a mix?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Analytical psychology (or Jungian psychology) is the school of psychology originating from the ideas of Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung. Its aim is wholeness through the integration of unconscious forces and motivations underlying human behavior. Depth psychology, including archetypal psychology, employs the model of the unconscious mind as the source of healing and development in an individual. Jung saw the psyche as mind, but also admits the mystery of soul, and used as empirical evidence, the practice of an accumulative phenomenology around the significance of dreams, archetypes and mythology. --Wiki article on Jungian psych
Some white girls seem to be cashing in. Warrior Priestess-com below offers books, CDs among other things, and urges women to find the "warrior priestess within.." under a general "Goddess" rubric.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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To keep it quite simple, the ancient tradition was that the universe was black and represented the infinite substance of creation and the will force of the creator. This substance was eternal and present in all things. Through this substance comes all life and manifestation in the material universe. That manifestation from the infinite will is symbolized by the sun as the radiation and emanation of infinite will power in creation. This substance is eternal in that it is present in all things and no matter how it is transformed from one form to another. In other words, energy is neither created or destroyed. This process of transformation is the fundamental law of creation and as part of this is the process life and death or creation and destruction as a part of the infinite cycle of the universe. And as the substance of the universe is the eternal flesh of the creative will, all life continually feeds on it as the source of their sustenance and energy. Hence the idea of the god of the sacrifice, the lamb and the blood of the lamb as symbolic of the eternal nature of life and creation. Within this form of symbolism black is symbolic of creation, birth and the earth as the divine substance of the earth and the universes that is consumed for continued power and longevity as the nutrient for one's growth and power. Now, this is easily twisted into an occult fetish to feed on the black child, the black seed and the "consumption" of black life literally, spiritually, culturally and physically. Hence the use of black babies in occult rituals (which continues to this day), the use of black women in occult rituals as symbolic of the infinite womb (the feminine principle of creation in the universe). The use of black males in occult rituals as symbolic as symbolic of the infinite seed force of creation (the male principle of creation in the universe). That is seen as the divine power of creation and as part of the divine sacrifice needed to give an individual, group or culture longevity. That is a distortion and corruption of the Osirian drama as played out in Western esoteric circles and societies.
This is also seen in Christianity is the cult of the sacrifice, featuring the god of the sacrifice through which the shedding of blood symbolizes the purification of the pagan and empowerment (non European) of the followers of the cult (European). This focuses on the "flesh and blood" of Christ being devoured as the epitome of the worship of the god of the sacrifice. But in reality it is the actual literal practice of the sacrifice of the pagan, non Christians or those who are deemed as blasphemous or a threat that is the basis of the real power and expansion of the church. Hence the literal and ritual cannibalism of other people and cultures as a sacrifice to the Christian church on the altar of the god of sacrifice. No different that what the Mayans were doing 1000 years ago.
Now none of this is no coincidence as it is documented that ancient Europeans practiced cannibalism. But the idea of the sacrifice as a sacred ritual was practiced in other cultures as well and attained a symbolic function for the social and political life of these groups a long time ago. The only difference here is that by extension the doctrine of Christianity does not allow for those other religions to exist and therefore they must be sacrificed and their people destroyed or consumed for Christianity to grow and thrive. And that is the actual literal doctrine of Christianity that has been in place for the last 1000 years.
So yes there are many doctrinal, social and cultural forces that promote the actual cannibalization of black life and culture amongst Europeans.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: Originally posted by Bettyboo: ^Well we need to start our own independent studies and forums discussing European and question whether south eastern europeans are really white or mullato and incessantly talk about how much black and nonwhite blood they have in them. We need to separate the white europeans with thick dark hair or those with wavy, curly, or frizzy hair from the true white race who are blonde thin,flat hair europeans. We need to make a distinction between those white europeans with high bridge long noses and those with stubbier noses. We need to investigate the blood line of russians, finnish, and slavs to see how much mongol and other asian blood they have in them. We need to discuss if the white race of the caucus region are really white or meditteranean and asian stock and if they qualify to be white because they look the total opposite of the true white nordic race.
You have a point there Betty. Why is it that so many white scholars want to lump true white Nordic people with people like dark-skinned Indians or Turks or dark Middle Eastern Jews/Moors /Arabs and call them all "Caucasian?" The term originally refers to elements from the Caucasus mountains of Europe. Or why are the using the label "Eurasian" so much these days? Are they ashamed of being white, or want to "darken" white people in the name of political korrectniss? [sic]
How about in the name of being ancient Egyptian and Berber?lol! And actually I think Mikey has already started this kind of forum. Anyone caring to join him can go right on ahead. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Of course this obsession can be neatly summed up in the phrase Egyptomania.
Speaking of "consuming" ancient Egypt, for some whites, the knowledge that it is African seems to be eating them.
Did Asia or Africa or the diverse South/Central America have a full force archeological movement?
Nope!
What it appears to be is African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA that are consumed with Ancient Egypt, trying to own it as a way of erasing a millennial of being second class citizens or outright slaves.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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^^^ BS. Below was posted in another thread on the lame BS claim you advance. African Americans don't need "clearance" from you or anyone else on the question of Egypt.
Too often, assorted whites and others seem to think it is their business to "tell" blacks what to think about the Nile Valley. But in face, blacks have every right to study and comment upon Egypt. They don't need anyone's "permission" just as Britons need no permission from anyone to study ancient Greece. The Sahara was once a fertile greenbelt reaching across 1/3 of Africa. It is from the Saharan and Sudanic peoples that Egyptian civilization sprung, the same Sahara that gave birth also to many of the West African civilizations. The Saharan/Sudanic inheritance, not to mention the deep-rooted PN2 DNA clades knit a vast number of African peoples together. Furthermore the early Dynastic civilization was dominated by peoples with a tropical body plan as proved by modern analysis, not cold-adapted people like Europeans. ANd it is the "darker" south of Egypt that conquered the north to usher in the Dynastic era.
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The "debate" question oft heard as to "Egyptian influence on the rest of Africa" should be flipped on its head. THE STARTING POINT IS ALWAYS AFRICA, NOT EGYPT. Too often it falsely claimed or alleged that those who challenge Eurocentric concepts are trying to "appropriate" the glory of Egypt as if such glories appeared out of thin air. Students of African history have nothing to "appropriate." The starting point is Africa, particularly the Saharan zone, an African foundation and African genesis. The Nile Valley was shaped heavily by this foundation, and that shaping also extended to other parts of Africa, from the North to the West. Any "appropriation" is from the Sahara and/or Sudan to the Nile Valley. Behind that is the evolutionary thread from sub-Saharan Africa to East Africa and on to the rest of the globe. Claims that alleged 'Afrocentrists' seek "inspiration" from Egypt are bogus in this sense. The original "inspiration" was from the Saharan foundations, indigenous development on the ground, that eventually morphed into the NV TROPICAL civilization. Informed African Americans don't need to "trace their history" back to Egypt as part of some "psych" project. They always begin with the African foundations, and trace forward from there.
Another favorite Eurocentric dodge is to make invidious comparisons between Egyptian civ and "black" Africa. But since Egypt civ grew out of the Saharan/Sudanic roots of "black" Africa, and can be clearly seen and documented, such "comparisons" are starkly irrelevant. The close relations between the Nubians and the Egyptians also make such deliberately individuous "comparisons" doubly irrelevant.
In any event the Sahara-gendered civilizations were tropical civilizations without the need for any "cold climate" inspiration.
And African Americans do not need "permission" from self-styled Arab nativists, alleged Egyptian natives/nativists, or white people to study and comment on Egypt. Native Egyptians should be proud of Egyptian civilization, but "Black Americans" don't need their "permission" to study Ancient Egypt, nor are they bound by whatever localized prejudices and biases currently exist in modern Egypt against Sudanics or other Africans, whether Arab inspired or not. All that doesn't mean a thing.
The data on the ground is what is important, not whether self-styles "native gatekeepers" give "approval" or "clearance" to study ancient Egypt. Too often such self-styled native gatekeepers seems to conceive of Egypt as being created out of thin air, perchance from some alien "ancient astronauts" descending on the Nile - anything but the indigenous tropical Africans that populated the Nile Valley- and indeed too often there is even objection to mentioning the word 'African" - as if it's some sort of dread bogeyman.
Most informed African-Americans however generally see through such nonsense, and do not conceive of Egypt as being created out of thin air. They begin at the Saharan zone, which providing the main source for the peopling of the Nile Valley, and laid the foundation and was the genesis of the Nile Valley Civilization. The above criticism does not apply to clear-eyed natives of Egypt who accept the African foundations or Ancient Egypt. or the closeness of Nubians to Egyptians as routine history, devoid of any need for ethno-nationalist hysteria.. Too often however self-styled "fundamentalists" presume to dictate to Black Americans what they are supposed to read or think about Ancient Egypt, but to repeat, said African Americans don't need anyone's permission. Data on the ground is what is important, not "feelings" or rhetoric from elsewhere.
To the extent that said Black Americans present a more accurate and balanced picture of the Nile Valley's African peoples, then they are truer and more faithful heirs and guardians of the foundations laid by said peoples, than current day "fundamentalists" who deny and distort that heritage.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^^^^ but she has a point(somewhat), Europeans in the 19th century invented Archeology and eventually Egyptology and digging up Monuments and tombs that were buried in sand.
So it begs to question if not for 19th century Europeans would "West Africans" and even Nile Valley people themselves be interested in Ancient Egypt...??
I ask this becuase prior to the 19th century ld things were not valued in the same sense as they are today esp. in Muslim Arabized society, the so called Pagan/Kaffir structures were outright defaced, and destroyed by the so called "Black Man's Religion" and the So called "African" "Prophet" Muhammed...Look at Nubia and the Aswan Dam...
In my opinion if not for Euros these Muslims would have flooded more than just Nubian Temples..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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A fair point- the scholarship of Europe deserves fulsome credit. But it does not explain why the interest and/or obsession runs so deep. The scholarship is a tool of the obsession. Why is Egyptology not some muted field like Chaldean studies or something, rather than a culture wide fascination thru multiple centuries? The books referenced offer a variety of reasons from curiosity,to religious reasons, to appropriation of Egyptian prestige to add to one own's culture's prestige.
And on scholarship, it could be argued that the Egyptians left their own documentation - in their temples, tombs, buildings, sculptures, pottery, paintings and even inscribed tools, etc which modern men today now merely study. In other words, any line of credit being given must be given to the Egyptians first for their accomplishments. If others study them fine, but their credit is a distant second to the main subject- people who already documented their own history, on their own terms, according to the criteria they saw fit, without help or permission from anyone else.
And yes Nile Valley peoples have been very interested in ancient Egypt. The Kushites if you remember were interested enough to almost conquer the country as early as the 17th dynasty, long before the 25th, and native Egyptians were always interested in their heritage prior to the Islamic conquest and intrusions of other foreigners.
West Africans were also interested. One of the best known black writers and historians of the 19th century- Edward Blyden, a West African, visited Egypt in 1866 and had a virtual epiphany on seeing the Great Pyramids for himself, expounding on the "enterprising Sons of Ham." The biblical references to Egypt, which Blyden's comment touches on shows that he did not necessarily need 19th century Egyptology to become what some call an early father of Afrocentrism. Blyden flipped current racist religious teaching on its head. Moses pronounced no curse of Ham, as claimed by later Jewish, Arab and white theologians. He writes of Egypt (Mizraim) as being a descendant of Ham. If blacks were descendants of Ham as everyone said in Blyden's day, then Blyden logically saw black kinship with the Egyptians. He didn't need Egyptologists to confirm his thinking. He could arrive at it just by reading the writings of Moses and refusing to accept racist interpretations of those writings- plus he saw the pyramids for himself. Another West African who wrote on the topic is James 'Africanus' Horton. So yeah, literate "West Africans" would be and were interested, without any prompting from Egyptology per se.
PS: what do you mean "African Prophet" Muhammed? He was a Arab, and quite distinct from dark Africans, as I have seen some Arabists carefully point out to various Farakhanites.
quote:Did Asia or Africa or the diverse South/Central America have a full force archeological movement? Nope! What it appears to be is African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA that are consumed with Ancient Egypt, trying to own it as a way of erasing a millennial of being second class citizens or outright slaves.
Trying to own nothing Kemet is African period,replacing lies with the truth is called correction,how often has the question been asked even on this very board what is Africa's contribution to world history and civilization.. the reaction of your average Euro-centric is a blank steer or a smirk, while the answer is the very foundations of your own history and civilizations,so deep it is that your religions, art,architecture,Laws,medicine, mathematics all stems from them, and the them were non other than the ancestors of some of those African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA.
And slavery??? no AAs or Caribbeans I know wants to erase that past as part of our identity is depended on that history,how else could I be proud of my immediate ancestors valiant struggle against slavery after-all we made the the British say uncle...the Maroons that is,or King Zumbi Quilombos — Our forefathers bequeathed to us the oral tradition! telling one to the other the history of a people, that is, a group of black slaves who fled from the plantations in the northeastern region of Brazil and founded an independent village. That place of difficult access, called Palmares, rests in Serra da Barriga, which, today in the State of Alagoas, was at that time a capitancy of the state of Pernambuc
Erase all that interesting and important history that help make the world as we know it.. are you kidding??Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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I think that white people intuitively know that their ancestors had something to do with ancient Egypt. The question ought to be.....Are black people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: I think that white people intuitively know that their ancestors had something to do with ancient Egypt. The question ought to be.....Are black people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?
Bullcaca. there is no way on God's green earth my ancestors had anything to do with ancient Egypt.
Personally I think you are some ghetto guy not of Caucasian extraction who's created a "white girl" troll character for this racist amusement.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Did Asia or Africa or the diverse South/Central America have a full force archeological movement? Nope! What it appears to be is African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA that are consumed with Ancient Egypt, trying to own it as a way of erasing a millennial of being second class citizens or outright slaves.
Trying to own nothing Kemet is African period,replacing lies with the truth is called correction,how often has the question been asked even on this very board what is Africa's contribution to world history and civilization.. the reaction of your average Euro-centric is a blank steer or a smirk, while the answer is the very foundations of your own history and civilizations,so deep it is that your religions, art,architecture,Laws,medicine, mathematics all stems from them, and the them were non other than the ancestors of some of those African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA.
And slavery??? no AAs or Caribbeans I know wants to erase that past as part of our identity is depended on that history,how else could I be proud of my immediate ancestors valiant struggle against slavery after-all we made the the British say uncle...the Maroons that is,or King Zumbi Quilombos — Our forefathers bequeathed to us the oral tradition! telling one to the other the history of a people, that is, a group of black slaves who fled from the plantations in the northeastern region of Brazil and founded an independent village. That place of difficult access, called Palmares, rests in Serra da Barriga, which, today in the State of Alagoas, was at that time a capitancy of the state of Pernambuc
Erase all that interesting and important history that help make the world as we know it.. are you kidding??
Dude there has to be something known of African history which could bring pride to African Americans.
Because lineage cannot often be traced for African Americans they make up myths to satisfy curiousity. Religiousity and refering themselves as a "Lost Tribe of Israel" in Southern Baptist tradition is also a great myth.
Nothing you stated confirms or denies that African Americans have created this myth of their heritage because so few academics, historians have taken the time to research the lineages of African Americans.
Diversion is a tactic of the delusional.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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metinoot Personally I think you are some ghetto guy not of Caucasian extraction who's created a "white girl" troll character for this racist amusement.
Please don't pass off that Simple minded one on us!! she belongs to you guys we have enough idiots we don't want yours as well.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: I think that white people intuitively know that their ancestors had something to do with ancient Egypt. The question ought to be.....Are black people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?
Bullcaca. there is no way on God's green earth my ancestors had anything to do with ancient Egypt.
Personally I think you are some ghetto guy not of Caucasian extraction who's created a "white girl" troll character for this racist amusement.
You got that right. I'm just some black ghetto guy having fun.lol Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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Metinoot pride is only part of it,one can only take bragging rights so far but information is key and yes we have plenty of it Afrocentrism is sometimes confused with what Al~Takuri calls Afro-eccentrism the two are not one and the same,have you taken the time to look at the connections that stretches from the Nile to the Niger? http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006511 GO here^..and Africans were taken from all parts of Africa and ended up in the new world some from as far as Madagascar, so ancient Israelites not with standing although Jews exists anciently in all parts of Africa as Africans..Ethiopians and Lembas of Southern Africa as well as those in West Africa to name a few, so never say never.
Mentinoot Dude there has to be something known of African history which could bring pride to African Americans. Because lineage cannot often be traced for African Americans they make up myths to satisfy curiousity. Religiousity and refering themselves as a "Lost Tribe of Israel" in Southern Baptist tradition is also a great myth. Nothing you stated confirms or denies that African Americans have created this myth of their heritage because so few academics, historians have taken the time to research the lineages of African Americans. Diversion is a tactic of the delusional.Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: I think that white people intuitively know that their ancestors had something to do with ancient Egypt. The question ought to be.....Are black people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?
Bullcaca. there is no way on God's green earth my ancestors had anything to do with ancient Egypt.
Personally I think you are some ghetto guy not of Caucasian extraction who's created a "white girl" troll character for this racist amusement.
You got that right. I'm just some black ghetto guy having fun.lol
Thats exactly why the moniker "A Simple Girl" as chosen.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: A fair point- the scholarship of Europe deserves fulsome credit. But it does not explain why the interest and/or obsession runs so deep. The scholarship is a tool of the obsession. Why is Egyptology not some muted field like Chaldean studies or something, rather than a culture wide fascination thru multiple centuries? The books referenced offer a variety of reasons from curiosity,to religious reasons, to appropriation of Egyptian prestige to add to one own's culture's prestige.
And on scholarship, it could be argued that the Egyptians left their own documentation - in their temples, tombs, buildings, sculptures, pottery, paintings and even inscribed tools, etc which modern men today now merely study. In other words, any line of credit being given must be given to the Egyptians first for their accomplishments. If others study them fine, but their credit is a distant second to the main subject- people who already documented their own history, on their own terms, according to the criteria they saw fit, without help or permission from anyone else.
And yes Nile Valley peoples have been very interested in ancient Egypt. The Kushites if you remember were interested enough to almost conquer the country as early as the 17th dynasty, long before the 25th, and native Egyptians were always interested in their heritage prior to the Islamic conquest and intrusions of other foreigners.
West Africans were also interested. One of the best known black writers and historians of the 19th century- Edward Blyden, a West African, visited Egypt in 1866 and had a virtual epiphany on seeing the Great Pyramids for himself, expounding on the "enterprising Sons of Ham." The biblical references to Egypt, which Blyden's comment touches on shows that he did not necessarily need 19th century Egyptology to become what some call an early father of Afrocentrism. Blyden flipped current racist religious teaching on its head. Moses pronounced no curse of Ham, as claimed by later Jewish, Arab and white theologians. He writes of Egypt (Mizraim) as being a descendant of Ham. If blacks were descendants of Ham as everyone said in Blyden's day, then Blyden logically saw black kinship with the Egyptians. He didn't need Egyptologists to confirm his thinking. He could arrive at it just by reading the writings of Moses and refusing to accept racist interpretations of those writings- plus he saw the pyramids for himself. Another West African who wrote on the topic is James 'Africanus' Horton. So yeah, literate "West Africans" would be and were interested, without any prompting from Egyptology per se.
PS: what do you mean "African Prophet" Muhammed? He was a Arab, and quite distinct from dark Africans, as I have seen some Arabists carefully point out to various Farakhanites.
European interest has done as much harm as good in Egypt. For one they destroyed and stole a lot of artifacts from Egypt in the name of "treasure hunting" in the beginning their explorations. It was only later that conservation has become more prevalent and professional. Then there is the whole creation of the crackpot racial theories they created as part of their racist cult that became part of their "academic" discourse. And to top it all off, the institution of Egyptology itself has not and will not ever publicly say that ancient Egypt was a creation of black Africans. This institution was built and paid for by white European money to portray the ancient Egyptians as white. No matter how many scholarly articles come out saying that they were black Africans, the mainstream media and Egyptology itself will never ever acknowledge it or admit it in public. This is notwithstanding the fact that they now full well that this is the truth.
Posts: 8890 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: A fair point- the scholarship of Europe deserves fulsome credit. But it does not explain why the interest and/or obsession runs so deep. The scholarship is a tool of the obsession. Why is Egyptology not some muted field like Chaldean studies or something, rather than a culture wide fascination thru multiple centuries? The books referenced offer a variety of reasons from curiosity,to religious reasons, to appropriation of Egyptian prestige to add to one own's culture's prestige.
And on scholarship, it could be argued that the Egyptians left their own documentation - in their temples, tombs, buildings, sculptures, pottery, paintings and even inscribed tools, etc which modern men today now merely study. In other words, any line of credit being given must be given to the Egyptians first for their accomplishments. If others study them fine, but their credit is a distant second to the main subject- people who already documented their own history, on their own terms, according to the criteria they saw fit, without help or permission from anyone else.
And yes Nile Valley peoples have been very interested in ancient Egypt. The Kushites if you remember were interested enough to almost conquer the country as early as the 17th dynasty, long before the 25th, and native Egyptians were always interested in their heritage prior to the Islamic conquest and intrusions of other foreigners.
West Africans were also interested. One of the best known black writers and historians of the 19th century- Edward Blyden, a West African, visited Egypt in 1866 and had a virtual epiphany on seeing the Great Pyramids for himself, expounding on the "enterprising Sons of Ham." The biblical references to Egypt, which Blyden's comment touches on shows that he did not necessarily need 19th century Egyptology to become what some call an early father of Afrocentrism. Blyden flipped current racist religious teaching on its head. Moses pronounced no curse of Ham, as claimed by later Jewish, Arab and white theologians. He writes of Egypt (Mizraim) as being a descendant of Ham. If blacks were descendants of Ham as everyone said in Blyden's day, then Blyden logically saw black kinship with the Egyptians. He didn't need Egyptologists to confirm his thinking. He could arrive at it just by reading the writings of Moses and refusing to accept racist interpretations of those writings- plus he saw the pyramids for himself. Another West African who wrote on the topic is James 'Africanus' Horton. So yeah, literate "West Africans" would be and were interested, without any prompting from Egyptology per se.
PS: what do you mean "African Prophet" Muhammed? He was a Arab, and quite distinct from dark Africans, as I have seen some Arabists carefully point out to various Farakhanites.
Well I think the obsession with Egypt stems from the fact that Egypt is such a mystery. I mean Greece and Rome are interesting but not really Mysterious, Egypt has an allure to it and it was such a brilliant civilization. Egypt was the worlds first world power, while the Greeks and Romans were figuring out how to build Strawhuts.
Also Egypt is the perfect place to build an Empire because of the desert and climate(little Rain) alot of Temples and such were preserved.
That is the only thing I can think of.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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The problem is that European academics did not stop at ancient Egypt. When tracing the history of western Africa and portions of Central Africa you will find that many sophisticated groups from these regions were given fake lineages from so-called Hamitic groups. A good example of this is the Yoruba which many scholars tried to attribute to wandering 'Hamitic caucasoids.'' Even the Zulu people were called ''Hamitic caucasoids.''
The stealing of African history does not just stop at ancient Egypt.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Did Asia or Africa or the diverse South/Central America have a full force archeological movement?
Nope!
No. The whole discipline of archaeology was started by Europeans to learn more about their own ancient history. But when they discovered that non-Europeans had cultures even older, well that's when the disciplined boomed and it became a self-righteous way of claiming other cultures' heritages for themselves.
quote:What it appears to be is African Americans and African immigrants to EU and USA that are consumed with Ancient Egypt, trying to own it as a way of erasing a millennial of being second class citizens or outright slaves.
LOL I don't think so. Many African Americans I know claim ancient Egypt because they know it is part of their African history. Doing so does not erase their relatively recent history of oppression and discrimination anymore than it does for Jews' even longer history of discrimination and oppression even though the Bible and Christianity was written and based on them. Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simpleton: I think that white people intuitively know that their ancestors had something to do with ancient Egypt. The question ought to be.....Are black people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time).
Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons...
Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization."
Donald Redford (2001) The Oxford encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p. 28
^ There you go straight from the mind of a WHITE EUROPEAN who is an expert in the field of Egyptology. According to him Egyptian arose from indigenous Africans. There is not a word of European involvement at all. LOL
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: Bullcaca. there is no way on God's green earth my ancestors had anything to do with ancient Egypt.
Personally I think you are some ghetto guy not of Caucasian extraction who's created a "white girl" troll character for this racist amusement.
I'm afraid you're wrong, metinoot. Apparently not many whites are as proud of their European heritage as you are and need the imaginary accomplishments of ancestors elsewhere for their self-esteem.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The problem is that European academics did not stop at ancient Egypt. When tracing the history of western Africa and portions of Central Africa you will find that many sophisticated groups from these regions were given fake lineages from so-called Hamitic groups. A good example of this is the Yoruba which many scholars tried to attribute to wandering 'Hamitic caucasoids.'' Even the Zulu people were called ''Hamitic caucasoids.''
The stealing of African history does not just stop at ancient Egypt.
Right you are, Ausar! This is the point that many fail to realize. That because ancient Egypt was shown to be an African culture closely related to other African cultures, Western scholars could not help but try to white-wash the rest of Africa. Thus whenever an African culture had any similarities to Egypt (and there were A LOT) a wandering "caucasian" race had to be invoked giving rise to advanced culture in that region.
This is the reason why there are crazies like Pontikos and others who claim theories like "indigenous caucasoid Africans". Thus the question, 'Are white people too obsessed with ancient Egypt?' is just the main issue of an even larger problem: 'Are white people too obsessed with ancient AFRICA?'. The answer is obviously they are! Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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No doubt as Jari says there are is a mix of factors including curiosity and a sense of wonder at such an ancient culture. On the other hand..
According to von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" the sarcophagus lid above from the Mayan culture represents an "ancient astronaut" ascending to the stars in his spaceship. Such ancient aliens could in similar manner, explain the advances of the Egyptians....
lol
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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The authors below expose much of the ideology behind geogrpahical labels and divisions and offer up their own "world regions" model - including interestingly an "African-American" zone. Their "African-America" includes not just the West Indies but the entire Caribbean and North-Eastern Brazil. North America remains and Ibero-America emerges.
Ehret's term 'Afrasan" also seems a more accurate descriptor for the language group that had 5 out of 6 members emerge in Africa.
The Myth of Continents: A Critique of Metageography Martin W. Lewis and Kären E. Wigen. 1997 ----------------------------------------- Review blurb: If you consider geography an objective science, think again. According to Martin W. Lewis and Karen E. Wigen, even the concept of continents is open to interpretation. Why, for example, do Europeans consider their little peninsula a whole continent while the vast territories of India and China are mere subcontinents? Contrast this worldview with that of the Indian mapmakers who depicted South Asia as the world's largest land mass and Europe as marginalized "hat-wearing islands." During the Cold War, the world was even further divided, this time into first, second, and third worlds. But how you classify the various regions of the world, Lewis and Wigen posit in The Myth of Continents, depends very much on where you happen to be standing at the time.
Having bravely exposed the ethnocentrism at the heart of geography, Lewis and Wigen then offer up their own division of the globe based on "world regions" rather than continents. Under such a scheme, Europe would become Western Eurasia, while the Western Hemisphere would become North America, Ibero-America, and African-America (divisions based on linguistic, cultural, and/or racial criteria). Whether or not you agree with the authors' division of the world, The Myth of Continents is a lively and thought-provoking exploration of a subject many of us take for granted. After reading this book, you'll never look at a map of the world in quite the same way. ----------------------------------------
Said authors criticize 'Afrocentrists" as being unable to decide onthe boundaries of Africa or using unrealistic boundaries, but offer up yet another version of the same "sub-Saharan" model in their World Regions approach.
Djehuti, Ausar, Doug, Explorer, etc what model would you all propose as a replacement for the current "Sub-Saharan' one? If you were writing a geography book, what new format would you use?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan: what about pg 218? What do you have that's substantive to add?
sorry I don't quote from white people's books, that only gives them more attention validating their obsession. basically we need whites out of Egyptology.
I'm calling for a boycott of quoting any research by white authors.
Let's stop talking and take action.
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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A modern artificially(Henna?) colored Hair on an admixed East African(notice gray hair on the sides) and 'Ginger' 3400BCE Predynastic mummy.
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