posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Libyans are one of the predominant ancient Maghrebian ethnicities.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

As I said before there was a long stretch over 1000 years of no eveidence of human habiation in the Maghreb. They might find some in the future.
Long haired Nomadic tribes are mentioned by the Greeks but Sea people and other foreigners had been entering the region hundreds of years before Herodotus.

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

[an]Other ignorant statement[]
* Carthage is not distinct from Phoenicia

---

if you mean Carthage had no relation to Phoenica you are misleading the people

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Other ignorant statements

* Angus McBrides total fantasy Tichitt Phoenicia trade

---

please follow the thead, Son of Ra introduced that picture, it's his fault, my post remark was

"The illustration portays Phoenicians traders trading with Mandé merchants of the Pre-Imperial Mali in the 10th c
I'm not sure that happened, would need to see another source verifying it."

Where were you when he first posted that?

please explain about the total fantasy, I don't know much about it. I suppose there are timeline issue ?

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Carthage was founded by Phoenicians (Canaanites
-- K*na`ani per their own nomenclature). Over
time Carthage's colonists fused with the native
Imazighen to birth the unique Punic civilization.\

---

Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Truthcentric


You believe Hannibal was African?

---

Don't think there's hard evidence either way, but I do have another recent drawing of him that portrays him as more African:



And an earlier, more dynamic picture of him brandishing his battle ax:

"I shall use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome!"

---

Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
So where's your primary documental evidence
from the Latin Roman authors that his moms
was Italian not just a Roman citizen?

Use a little logic. If he was raised by
a 'Tally mommi he would not have
a nearly unintelligible accent that
Romans made fun of when he spoke Latin would he?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Gafsian is more correct than Capsian.
The type site is at Gafsa not Capsa.

It's a matter of self-determinative
agency in applying terminology more
appropriate to Africa than to Euros.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Build a straw man knock it down.
Absolutely nothing I ever said
or anything to do with anything
I ever said.

Now if I call you a disengenious
photo spammin' twit don't run to
Sammy again and have him wipe what
you don't like the way you did last
month behind me puttin' fire up under
yr ass in the Who These People and
the Kefti threads. Ya hear? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Another point you tried to slink away from is
a - vacant post-Gafsian Maghreb
b - inhabited post-Gafsian Maghreb
which one? You know it can't be both.

---

^^^"All or nothing" mentality

---

Yes, outlining your all or nothing submentality

Direct quote

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

After North African Capsian culture there is 1-2000 year gap of no evidence of human habitation settlements in the Maghreb
Possibly there were some nomads around.
The Capsians were the last hunter gatherer culture about 10,000 to 6,000 BCE.

---

Fact is, you know bupkis about the Gafsian.

Compare what you wrote yesterday to what you
wrote in July

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Capsian cultutre 8000 bc – 2,700 BC.
(other sources 8000-4000 BC)

---

.

Proof positive you don't know what you
talkin bout just frontin frauds as you
go along with newbies getting sucked in
by your one day this next day that bullshit.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

[an]Other ignorant statement[]
* Carthage is not distinct from Phoenicia

---

if you mean Carthage had no relation to Phoenica you are misleading the people

---

Of course Carthage is distinct from Phoenicia....


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

over
time Carthage's colonists fused with the native
Imazighen to birth the unique Punic civilization.

Carthaginians were less Phoenician than Canadians,
Americans, South Africans, or Australians are English.

---

How do you know that, Carthaginians were less Phoenician than Canadians,
Americans, South Africans, or Australians are English?

Even people who argue a healthy indigenous African input would not go that far.

The Sahara: A Cultural History
By Eamonn Gearon

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri

---

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
We do have this coin from Italy dating to 208-207 BC, which is within Hannibal's lifetime. Could it show a contemporary's portrait of him?

---

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:


^^^Interesting.

---

quote:

---

The sandstone escarpment of the Dhar Tichitt in South-Central Mauritania was inhabited by Neolithic agropastoral communities for approximately one and half millennium during the Late Holocene, from ca. 4000 to 2300 BP. The absence of prior evidence of human settlement points to the influx of mobile herders moving away from the “drying” Sahara towards more humid lower latitudes.

---

--Augustin F.C. Holl
Volume 341, Issues 8–9, August–September 2009, Pages 703–712


Coping with uncertainty: Neolithic life in the Dhar Tichitt-Walata, Mauritania, (ca. 4000–2300 BP)


Another thread by Jari on; Tichitt-Walata Oldest Stone West African Settlement

quote:

---

Legend holds that Carthage was founded around 825 BC by Queen Dido who had fled from the city of Tyre to escape her murderous brother Pygmalion. Archaeological evidence confirms that Phoenician traders from Tyre founded the city of Qart-Ḥadašt—or "New City," as Carthage was known in its native language—in the second half of the ninth century BC.

---

--Dickinson College Commentaries


http://dcc.dickinson.edu/nepos-hannibal/carthage-early-history

---

Good post Troll Patrol and yeah I've seen that thread by Jari. Tichit Walata was very old, yet very advanced for its time.

And man Carthage must have been amazing. Just look at this pic.

Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
reliable information on ancient Carthaginian architecture proved surprisingly hard to come by, especially since the Romans utterly destroyed the original city before rebuilding it in their own style.

---

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Carthage was founded by Phoenicians (Canaanites
-- K*na`ani per their own nomenclature). Over
time Carthage's colonists fused with the native
Imazighen to birth the unique Punic civilization.\

---

Do we actually know whether the people living in the Carthage area before the Phoenicians were actually Berbers? How do we know they weren't, say, related to Mandinkas or some other Niger-Congo West African people?

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
So where's your primary documental evidence
from the Latin Roman authors that his moms
was Italian not just a Roman citizen?

Use a little logic. If he was raised by
a 'Tally mommi he would not have
a nearly unintelligible accent that
Romans made fun of when he spoke Latin would he?

---

Don't just nitpick everything I say without puting forward something for the people to grasp as an alternative.
I haven't read the primary sources on this accent thing. There is an element of logic to what you are saying but you have said nothing about if his moms also had an accent, what she had an accent and what type of accent she had.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Gafsian is more correct than Capsian.
The type site is at Gafsa not Capsa.

It's a matter of self-determinative
agency in applying terminology more
appropriate to Africa than to Euros.

---

Authors of modern books on North Africa, professional anthropologists working today, as far as I know are not using this term.
So therefore when people who come to Egyptsearch to learn stuff and hear you use all these obscure terms you think are more proper dont know what you are talking about and might lose interest

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Build a straw man knock it down.
Absolutely nothing I ever said
or anything to do with anything
I ever said.

Now if I call you a disengenious
photo spammin' twit don't run to
Sammy again and have him wipe what
you don't like the way you did last
month behind me puttin' fire up under
yr ass in the Who These People and
the Kefti threads. Ya hear?

---

^^^ egocentic theory

I complained to ausar in a pm about the deletion, he didn't know who did it

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

Another point you tried to slink away from is
a - vacant post-Gafsian Maghreb
b - inhabited post-Gafsian Maghreb
which one? You know it can't be both.

---

^^^"All or nothing" mentality

---

Yes, outlining your all or nothing submentality

Direct quote

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

After North African Capsian culture there is 1-2000 year gap of no evidence of human habitation settlements in the Maghreb
Possibly there were some nomads around.
The Capsians were the last hunter gatherer culture about 10,000 to 6,000 BCE.

---

Fact is, you know bupkis about the Gafsian.

Compare what you wrote yesterday to what you
wrote in July

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Capsian cultutre 8000 bc – 2,700 BC.
(other sources 8000-4000 BC)

---

.

Proof positive you don't know what you
talkin bout just frontin frauds as you
go along with newbies getting sucked in
by your one day this next day that bullshit.

---

as I said ther are various sources with differnt dates. Instead of soley nit picking put forward a date.
You don't want't to because my point stiil stands.

If you look at 8000 bc – 2,700 BC. it fits within
10,000 to 6,000 BCE.

Different sources define these cultures differently and there are dating issues.

give dates for the people

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

[an]Other ignorant statement[]
* Carthage is not distinct from Phoenicia

---

if you mean Carthage had no relation to Phoenica you are misleading the people

---

Of course Carthage is distinct from Phoenicia....


Carthage was founded by Phoenicians

---

"distinct" could mean anything, semantics.
America is distinct from Britain
Alaska is distinct from Peru
France is distiinct from Belgium

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

over
time Carthage's colonists fused with the native
Imazighen to birth the unique Punic civilization.

Carthaginians were less Phoenician than Canadians,
Americans, South Africans, or Australians are English.

---

How do you know that, Carthaginians were less Phoenician than Canadians,
Americans, South Africans, or Australians are English?

Even people who argue a healthy indigenous African input would not go that far.

The Sahara: A Cultural History
By Eamonn Gearon

quote:

---

Originally posted by alTakruri

---

^^^ you posted this. Are you convinced these people were fully indigenous deep rooted Africans?
I suppose it's possible but it seems to be hard to know for sure [/QB]

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
We do have this coin from Italy dating to 208-207 BC, which is within Hannibal's lifetime. Could it show a contemporary's portrait of him?

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Um...Yeah you can clearly see the paint has faded off.



@Truthcentric

Some people say that can be a Nubian. Also you said maybe the Carthaginians could have been related to Niger Congo people. Well the people of Tichitt Walata were Sonnike people who are infact Niger Congo type people and those same people traded with the Carthaginians as seen in the OP.

Also does any have even more sources about trade between Carthaginians and West Africans or just their relations?

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
We do have this coin from Italy dating to 208-207 BC, which is within Hannibal's lifetime. Could it show a contemporary's portrait of him?

---

why of the Carthegian coins that have people and elephants on them would that one in particular be Hannibal?

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Carthage was founded by Phoenicians (Canaanites
-- K*na`ani per their own nomenclature). Over
time Carthage's colonists fused with the native
Imazighen to birth the unique Punic civilization.\

---

Do we actually know whether the people living in the Carthage area before the Phoenicians were actually Berbers? How do we know they weren't, say, related to Mandinkas or some other Niger-Congo West African people?

---

quote:

---

The extremely large skeletal samples that come from sites such as Taforalt (Fig. 8.13) and Afalou constitute an invaluable resource for understanding the makers of Iberomaurusian artifacts, and their number is unparalleled elsewhere in Africa for the early Holocene. Frequently termed Mechta-Afalou or Mechtoid, these were a skeletally robust people and definitely African in origin, though attempts, such as those of Ferembach (1985), to establish similarities with much older and rarer Aterian skeletal remains are tenuous given the immense temporal separation between the two (Close and Wendorf 1990). At the opposite end of the chronological spectrum, dental morphology does suggest connections with later Africans, including those responsible for the Capsian Industry (Irish 2000) and early mid-Holocene human remains from the western half of the Sahara (Dutour 1989), something that points to the Maghreb as one of the regions from which people recolonised the desert (MacDonald 1998).

Turning to what can be learned about cultural practices and disease, the individuals from Taforalt, the largest sample by far, display little evidence of trauma, though they do suggest a high incidence of infant mortality, with evidence for dental caries, arthritis, and rheumatism among other degenerative conditions. Interestingly, Taforalt also provides one of the oldest known instances of the practice of trepanation, the surgical removal of a portion of the cranium; the patient evidently survived for some time, as there are signs of bone regrowth in the affected area. Another form of body modification was much more widespread and, indeed, a distinctive feature of the Iberomaurusian skeletal sample as a whole. This was the practice of removing two or more of the upper incisors, usually around puberty and from both males and females, something that probably served as both a rite of passage and an ethnic marker (Close and Wendorf 1990), just as it does in parts of sub-Saharan Africa today (e.g., van Reenen 1987). Cranial and postcranial malformations are also apparent and may indicate pronounced endogamy at a much more localised level (Hadjouis 2002), perhaps supported by the degree of variability between different site samples noted by Irish (2000).

---

quote:

---

Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18], [26], [27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb




Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.





Table 3. Nine human populations sampled for craniometric analysis ranging in age from the Late Pleistocene (ca. 80,000 BP, Aterian) to the mid-Holocene (ca. 4000 BP) and in geographic distribution across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara [18], [19], [26], [27], [54].
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002995.t003

---

quote:

---

The older occupants have craniofacial dimensions that demonstrate similarities with mid-Holocene occupants of the southern Sahara and Late Pleistocene to early Holocene inhabitants of the Maghreb.

---

quote:

---

These early occupants abandon the area under arid conditions and, when humid conditions return ~4600 B.C.E., are replaced by a more gracile people with elaborated grave goods including animal bone and ivory ornaments.

---

quote:

---

Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero with a skeletally robust, trans-Saharan assemblage of Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene human populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.

---

quote:

---

Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.


Plot of first two principal components extracted from a mean matrix for 17 craniometric variables (Tables 4, 7) in 9 human populations (Table 3) from the Late Pleistocene through the mid-Holocene from the Maghreb and southern Sahara. Seven trans-Saharan populations cluster together, whereas Late Pleistocene Aterians (Ater) and the mid-Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-m) are striking outliers. Axes are scaled by the square root of the corresponding eigenvalue for the principal component. Abbreviations: Ater, Aterian; EMC, eastern Maghreb Capsian; EMI, eastern Maghreb Iberomaurusian; Gob-e, Gobero early Holocene; Gob-m, Gobero mid-Holocene; Mali, Hassi-el-Abiod, Mali; Maur, Mauritania; WMC, western Maghreb Capsian; WMI, western Maghreb Iberomaurusian.

---

quote:

---

Craniometric data from seven human groups (Tables 3, 4) were subjected to principal components analysis, which allies the early Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-e) with mid-Holocene “Mechtoids” from Mali and Mauritania [18], [26], [27] and with Late Pleistocene Iberomaurusians and early Holocene Capsians from across the Maghreb (see cluster in Figure 6). The striking similarity between these seven human populations confirms previous suggestions regarding their affinity [18] and is particularly significant given their temporal range (Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene) and trans-Saharan geographic distribution (across the Maghreb to the southern Sahara).

---

quote:

---

Trans-Saharan craniometry. Principal components analysis of craniometric variables closely allies the early Holocene occupants at Gobero, who were buried with Kiffian material culture, with Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene humans from the Maghreb and southern Sahara referred to as Iberomaurusians, Capsians and “Mechtoids.” Outliers to this cluster of populations include an older Aterian sample and the mid-Holocene occupants at Gobero associated with Tenerean material culture.

---

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Cod. Pal. graec. 398
Sammelhandschrift
Konstantinopel, letztes Viertel 9. Jh.


http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpgraec398/0002?sid=3d6a00a90c066a58266b5b4df61e4472

---

Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
Cod. Pal. graec. 398
Sammelhandschrift
Konstantinopel, letztes Viertel 9. Jh.


http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpgraec398/0002?sid=3d6a00a90c066a58266b5b4df61e4472

---

^^^Not to sound dumb? But is that a manuscript? What is it about???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:



At the moment, there are only two copies, dating back to the ninth and the fourteenth centuries. The first of these manuscripts is known as the Palatinus Graecus 398 and can be studied in the University Library of Heidelberg. The other text is the Vatopedinus 655; parts of it are in the British Museum in London and in the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris.


[...]


At the below webiste on the right column is commentary on the above text, about what old places names mentioned correspond to West African place names we know today:

http://www.livius.org/ha-hd/hanno/hanno02.html

---

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Troll Patrol

Thanks.

Also is your PM box full? Because I wanna PM you something.

---

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^ typical Troll Patrol answer. Son Ra asks him what is the manuscript about and Troll Patrol's answer is "yes lioness mentioned it"

Is that an answer to the question?

What if someboy doesn't feel like reading 10 pages you post because they don't know what the 10 pages are supposed to be about.

I supposeldy posted this. If I did I don't even remember what it was about

Son of Ra what is it about I forgot ?

---

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

I admit I was rushed when posting earlier today.
Looked like you were talking about the Tjemehu
from Ramses III tomb KV11, if not accept my apology.



It doesn't matter what other depictions show
the Tamehu painted in KV11 are not dark. Also
other TMHHW of the Book of Gates scene 30 are
lite brite. See them in Merneptah KV8 and in
Seti KV17.

If I give these links will you click them to learn more?

Yurco & Hornung vs. Ampim & Lepsius (Again?? Yes, again!)

BG 4:5 vg30 as in KV11 tomb of Rameses III


Tjehenu the earliest known Libyans to the AE were
uniformily painted dark. Tjemehu otoh varied in
complexion. Also Temehu in New Kingdom times was
apparently genetic for Libyan and could include
Libu/Rebu, Meshwesh, and others.

IMO it's piss poor methodology to refuse to see
what's plainly right in front of your eyes because
it seems to support cauca-whatever presence in Africa.

We don't need that kind of African studies, it'd
be as false and groundless as the works of the
Eurocentric Africanists you rail against.

Maybe you and certain others need a feel good
history but I'd rather have it as close to what
it was as we can reconstruct it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Tukuler

What??? It seems you can't read or grasp the argument at hand.

1. I said the coins could be of a Nubian people, because Nubians were known for supplying Carthage with their elephants, so I heard. And I also heard those coins could be of a Nubian person. Had nothing to do with hieroglyphics. Truthcentric was the one that brought up the coins.
2. I said the paint was faded...Well because it is and you can clearly see some of the darker colors on it. Not only that, I said it because some people would use that painting as proof of pale Skin Caucasoid roaming Africa, which is not rare because Eurocentrics always love to post faded paintings as representatives of pale skin people being in Africa. Most paintings I've seen on the Libyans, they were brown skinned no different from the Ancient Egyptians.

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


also saying that some Libyans were dark doesn't prove that the darker Libyans in Egyptian art were indigenous Africans.

They may have been they may not have been.

The man above is an example of a dark person who is not necessrily primarily of African ancestry,
So saying "the paints faded" doesn't apply

The early history of the berbers is a question mark

---

quote:

---

The Garamantes flourished in southwestern Libya, in the core of the Sahara Desert ~3,000 years ago and largely controlled trans-Saharan trade. Their biological affinities to other North African populations, including the Egyptian, Algerian, Tunisian and Sudanese, roughly contemporary to them, are examined by means of cranial nonmetric traits using the Mean Measure of Divergence and Mahalanobis D(2) distance. The aim is to shed light on the extent to which the Sahara Desert inhibited extensive population movements and gene flow. Our results show that the Garamantes possess distant affinities to their neighbors. This relationship may be due to the Central Sahara forming a barrier among groups, despite the archaeological evidence for extended networks of contact. The role of the Sahara as a barrier is further corroborated by the significant correlation between the Mahalanobis D(2) distance and geographic distance between the Garamantes and the other populations under study. In contrast, no clear pattern was observed when all North African populations were examined, indicating that there was no uniform gene flow in the region.

---

quote:

---

Origin & Etymology of Garama:

It is far from sure to ascertain the etymology of the name Garama or Garamantes, but we do have a few suggestions to explore. As it is often the case, the Greeks preserved a considerable amount of Libyan history in their borrowed mythology, which Roberts Graves (in his Greek Myths) rightly compares to corrupted polit.


Origin & Etymology of Garama:

It is far from sure to ascertain the etymology of the name Garama or Garamantes, but we do have a few suggestions to explore. As it is often the case, the Greeks preserved a considerable amount of Libyan history in their borrowed mythology, which Roberts Graves (in his Greek Myths) rightly compares to corrupted political cartoons; and therefore one can wade through its chapters in search of forgotten clues. The Greeks knew of the Garamantes’ ancestor Garamas as ‘the first of men’, which is a reference to the antiquity of this legendary people. According to the Greek Olympian creation myth the Earth’s first children of semi-human form were the hundred-handed giants Briareus, Gyges and Cottus, but according to Robert Graves the Libyans claim that Garamas was born before the Hundred-handed Ones. Robert Graves further relates that the name Garamantes is derived from the words gara, man, and te, meaning ‘Gara’s state people’; where Gara is the Goddess Ker or Q’re who went on to become the Italian divinatory goddess Carmenta (‘Car the Wise’).　He also points out that the Garamantian settlement of Amon was　joined with the Northern Greek settlement of Dodona in a religious league which, according to Sir Flinders Petrie, may have originated as early as the third millennium BC. The Garamantes connection with Amon is further indicated by the　Nasamones, whose ancestor Nasamon himself descended from the legendary Garamas, the ancestor of the Garamantes, who appeared in mythology as the Son of the Sun and who offered Mother Earth a sacrifice of the sweet acorn.

This obscure history was the source of confusion. Dr. M. S. Ayoub (Fezzan, p.19), in quoting　Apolionius of Rhodes, relates a Greek legend which refers to Garama as the grandson of the Cretan King Minos, who was born on the shores of Lake Tritonis in Libya, and concludes that the Garamantes had been living on the shores between present-day Zuwarah in Libya and Gabes in Tunisia (p. 45), an area that includes the legendary Lake Tritonis, where Libyan Poseidon allegedly ruled Atlantis; in total agreement, Dr. Ayoub relates, with lbn Khaldun who stated that Germanah (Germa) was first settled by the Laguanten tribe, who also inhabited the coastal regions of Tripolitania; before he went on to add that they fled the coastal region and immigrated to Fezzan as a result of the Phoenicians' arrival. In support of his confused supposition Dr. Ayoub says: "On the mountain of Zenkekra in Germa, people are drawn with plumes on their heads which resembles drawings in Egyptian texts showing the maritime peoples." There is no doubt that the plume is a Libyan feature generally agreed on by most scholars and in fact the Egyptians themselves always represented Libyan gods and goddesses with plumes, as in the case of Libyan Amen, Libyan Ament and Libyan Shu, long before the arrival of the sea-people. Moreover there are a number of scholars who argue to the contrary - in that the Cretans themselves were a Libyan colony. It has been already stated that a Libyan settlement was expelled from their homes in the now called Egyptian Delta during the forced unification of Egypt, by Menas, and subsequently left for Crete between 4000 and 3000 BC, long way before the Minoan or Cretan civilisation was created. The same view was maintained by Robert Graves; by Elinor W. Gadon (The Once & Future Goddess); by Sir Arthur Evans (1901), the discoverer of the Cretan civilisation itself; and by Professor Flinders Petrie who pointed out that the similarity between certain Cretan characters and the prehistoric Libyan and Egyptian early forms of writing was not the work of coincidence.

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https://www.facebook.com/touareglibya/posts/337275616361029

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ as usual

make a point in YOUR OWN WORDS first like normal posters do and then post quotes after that

I could go into that same quote you out up and make four differnt conclusions from it

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As usually I debunk you with peer reviewed scholarship. And even a source directly from a popular Tuareg Facebook group.

You are a stupid, untraveled Appalachian.

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ as usual

make a point in YOUR OWN WORDS first like normal posters do and then post quotes after that

I could go into that same quote you out up and make four differnt conclusions from it

---

As usually I debunk you with peer reviewed scholarship.

---

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ as usual

make a point in YOUR OWN WORDS first like normal posters do and then post quotes after that

I could go into that same quote you out up and make four differnt conclusions from it

---

As usually I debunk you with peer reviewed scholarship.

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that's right usually you follow me around and dont make your own threads, real talk

---

Let's get real here.

If people post in their own words, you'll dismiss them as untrue etc...

And at the same time you will C/P wiki pages, pseudo blogs. Etc...


You are a joke! A African American woman impostor. A liar, a deceiver! And it hurts you, every time when I destroy your so-called white supremacy. And in your delusional mind you think you really can fool peeps here. BIGOT!

quote:

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The Garamantian civilization flourished in modern Fezzan, Libya, between 900 BC and 500 AD, during which the aridification of the Sahara was well established. Study of the archaeological remains suggests a population successful at coping with a harsh environment of high and fluctuating temperatures and reduced water and food resources. This study explores the activity patterns of the Garamantes by means of cross-sectional geometric properties. Long bone diaphyseal shape and rigidity are compared between the Garamantes and populations from Egypt and Sudan, namely from the sites of Kerma, el-Badari, and Jebel Moya, to determine whether the Garamantian daily activities were more strenuous than those of other North African populations. Moreover, sexual dimorphism and bilateral asymmetry are assessed at an intra- and inter-population level. The inter-population comparisons showed the Garamantes not to be more robust than the comparative populations, suggesting that the daily Garamantian activities necessary for survival in the Sahara Desert did not generally impose greater loads than those of other North African populations. Sexual dimorphism and bilateral asymmetry in almost all geometric properties of the long limbs were comparatively low among the Garamantes. Only the lower limbs were significantly stronger among males than females, possibly due to higher levels of mobility associated with herding. The lack of systematic bilateral asymmetry in cross-sectional geometric properties may relate to the involvement of the population in bilaterally intensive activities or the lack of regular repetition of unilateral activities.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

Here's another mask for ya, enjoy!


Fig. 204. Mask of a Negro. Mid 4th century BCE.
Terracotta. H: 22.5 cm. London, British Museum.

Before anyone blames me for the caption
it's directly from Snowden's chapter in
Image of the Black in Western Art vol 1
the original edition not the new one

For other ancient Africa Minor blacks see
Algerian mosaics. Three of the images there
are from Europe, these blacks are most likely the
closest Africans to Europe, i.e., "Libyans."

quote:

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Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I was just browsing Google image search for Carthaginian artifacts, and apparently they made masks with evidence for facial scars!

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
[Let's get real here.

If people post in their own words, you'll dismiss them as untrue etc...

And at the same time you will C/P wiki pages, pseudo blogs. Etc...


You are a joke! A African American woman impostor. A liar, a deceiver! And it hurts you, every time when I destroy your so-called white supremacy. [/QB]

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Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
[Let's get real here.

If people post in their own words, you'll dismiss them as untrue etc...

And at the same time you will C/P wiki pages, pseudo blogs. Etc...


You are a joke! A African American woman impostor. A liar, a deceiver! And it hurts you, every time when I destroy your so-called white supremacy.

---

the proper way to do thinks is make a point in your own words and then if you feel it necessary to back that point with references.
(Except if you are starting a new thread and post an article to be discussed)

If you wrote a book the entire thing would be a bibliography-realer talk [/QB]

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

I don't have a scanner and so can't post page 81
from J. A. Rogers' Sex and Race Vol. 1 but here's
a sampling of like coinage.










Numismaticists notes on this coin

quote:

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ETRURIA, Arretium (?), The Chiana Valley. Circa 208-207 BC. Æ
Quartuncia (5.34 gm). Head of an African right / Indian elephant
standing right, bell around neck; M below. SNG ANS 39-41; BMC Italy
pg. 15, 19; SNG Copenhagen 47; Robinson, NumChron 1964, pl. V; SNG
Morcom 45; Laffaille 1. Good VF, well centered, choice dark green
patina. Rare. Exceptionally well preserved and probably one of the
finest known of the type. ($750) This enigmatic issue has been much
discussed. It was Sestini in 1816 who first indicated their area of
circulation in and around the Chiana (Clanis) valley and lake
Trasimeno, dominated by the cities of Arezzo, Chiusi and Cortona. The
traditional attribution of the issue to 217 BC, as representing the
propaganda of Hannibal’s approach to Etruria, was modified by Robinson
(op. cit.), who saw it as a provocative seditious type of Arretium,
which was in a state of high tension with Rome in 209/8, in the hoped
for arrival of Hasdrubal from Spain with reinforcements. However, the
reverse depicts an Indian rather than African elephant with a bell
around its neck reminiscent of the elephant/saw aes signatum issue
(Crawford 9/1) of about 250-240 BC and associated with the battle of
Maleventum (soon to be called Beneventum) in 275 BC when the captured
elephants of Pyrrhus were brought to Rome in triumph. A similar Indian
elephant is also depicted as a symbol on the Tarantine nomos issue
(Vlasto 710-712), indicating the presence of Pyrrhus in the city in
282-276. The Barcid coinage of New Carthage (Villaronga CNH, pg. 65,
12-15) and that of Hannibal in Sicily (SNG Cop. 382) clearly depict
African elephants belonging to the elephant corps from about 220 BC.
As Maria Baglione points out in "Su alcune parallele di bronzo
coniato," Atti Napoli 1975, pg.153-180, the African/elephant issue
shares control marks with other cast and struck Etruscan coins of the
region, she quotes Panvini Rosati in ‘ Annuario dell’accademia Etrusca
di Cortona XII’, 1964, pg. 167ff., who suggests the type is to be seen
as a moneyer’s badge or commemorative issue in the style of Caesar’s
elephant/sacrificial implements issue of 49/48 BC (Crawford 443/1).
The elephant, an attribute of Mercury/Turms, is an emblem of wisdom
and is also a symbol of strength and of the overcoming of evil.

Triton V Sale, 15 Jan 2002, lot 2.

Lot sold for USD 1600.

Used by permission of CNG, www.historicalcoins.com

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Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Tukuler:
Right now I have very little
my ext stg directory got
trashed -- costs >$800
to maybe restore only
parts of it

I m starting from scratch
except for what I can
salvage from ES TNV ESR

sorry

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My advice, get yourself a Server, with hotswap backup and private cloud station. A Synology for example.


A two bay is efficient enough.





A direct and cheap solution to your problem could be a: USB 2.0 IDE & SATA recovery.

quote:

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From these radiated a complex network of surface channels, some of which could be traced directly to settlement sites with Garamantian and Roman pottery, strikingly confirming the Garamantian date of the foggaras previously postulated on the basis of a much broader spatial association with ancient settlements.


[...]


To this end, we have conducted survey in two main zones, examining in detail the escarp- ment between the Royal Cemetery and Zinkekr ̄a, a linear distance of 4.5 km, along which we have logged >5,500 burials, and on the west side of the T ̄aqallit promontory where we have recorded 4,000 burials in a sector of c. 4 km length.

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Tukuler

Yes I was talking about the Tjemehu IIRC they were depicted as no different from the Ancient Egyptians. Correct me if I am wrong.




And I already seen the thread in the first link. And what do you mean feel good history??? Are you implying that to me?

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If I'm not mistaken, the above dressed as Egyptians are Egyptians including govenors of Dakhla and or Kharga and oasis, Libyan regions the Egyptians had taken control of.


Maybe somebody can take a crack at this>

Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

^ it looks a bit like proto-Tifinagh. And considering the presence of the Garamantes this is likely. It's also precisely what I have cited earlier on in the; "Origin & Etymology of Garama".

quote:

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The Tuareg (also Twareg or Touareg, Berber: Imuhagh, besides regional ethnyms) are a Berber nomadic pastoralist people. They are the principal inhabitants of the Saharan interior of North Africa.[2][3] They call themselves variously Kel Tamasheq or Kel Tamajaq ("Speakers of Tamasheq"), Imuhagh, Imazaghan or Imashaghen ("the Free people"), or Kel Tagelmust, i.e., "People of the Veil".[4] The name Tuareg was applied to them by early explorers and historians (since Leo Africanus).[citation needed]

The origin and meaning of the name Twareg has long been debated with various etymologies advanced, although it would appear that Twārəg is derived from the "broken plural" of Tārgi, a name whose former meaning was "inhabitant of Targa" (the Tuareg name of the Libyan region commonly known as Fezzan. Targa in Berber means "(drainage) channel", see Alojali et al. 2003: 656, s.v. "Targa").

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Tukuler

Yes I was talking about the Tjemehu IIRC they were depicted as no different from the Ancient Egyptians. Correct me if I am wrong.




And I already seen the thread in the first link. And what do you mean feel good history??? Are you implying that to me?

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quote:

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The Garamantes flourished in southwestern Libya, in the core of the Sahara Desert ~3,000 years ago and largely controlled trans-Saharan trade.

Their biological affinities to other North African populations, including the Egyptian, Algerian, Tunisian and Sudanese, roughly contemporary to them, are examined by means of cranial nonmetric traits using the Mean Measure of Divergence and Mahalanobis D(2) distance.

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quote:

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The area around Gobero consists of Cretaceous sandstones that are likely to exhibit 87Sr/86Sr = 0.709–0.710, based on strontium isotope signatures from similar bedrock and archaeological human remains in Egypt and Libya [46], [47].

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Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged |