posted
There were certainly black people in northern Africa, no argument there.
I meant that the apparent presence of KhoiSan features in northern Africa surprised me, because I hadn't noticed it before.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:Zenata (Berber: Ijenaden) are a major old Berber ethnic group of North Africa. They were an umbrella-group encompassing probably hundreds of large linguistically or genealogically related Berber tribes in the north, center and east of Berber North Africa (excluding the Nile valley of Egypt). Zenata Berbers were the founders of several Berber empires, kingdoms and princedoms in North Africa.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: what are you doing, he said "non white" ??
White Berber
That is what is roaming on the Internet as the white Berber, indeed. But that's not the problem. Because Berbers can have and are light complected too. But euronuts exclude the people such as those posted above post, and in this thread.
Hence this elderly woman with baby look exceptional.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Zenata (Berber: Ijenaden) are a major old Berber ethnic group of North Africa. They were an umbrella-group encompassing probably hundreds of large linguistically or genealogically related Berber tribes in the north, center and east of Berber North Africa (excluding the Nile valley of Egypt). Zenata Berbers were the founders of several Berber empires, kingdoms and princedoms in North Africa.
Little is known about the history of the Gourara region of the Algerian Sahara. In 1987 it was home to over 60,000 Zenete, Bedouin, and Sudanese peoples in about one hundred oasis settlements.
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Zenata (Berber: Ijenaden) are a major old Berber ethnic group of North Africa. They were an umbrella-group encompassing probably hundreds of large linguistically or genealogically related Berber tribes in the north, center and east of Berber North Africa (excluding the Nile valley of Egypt). Zenata Berbers were the founders of several Berber empires, kingdoms and princedoms in North Africa.
Little is known about the history of the Gourara region of the Algerian Sahara. In 1987 it was home to over 60,000 Zenete, Bedouin, and Sudanese peoples in about one hundred oasis settlements.
To you that is! Stop your rubbish! The people have settled these regions for thousands of years, lying hog. All you try to do is discredit the history of the local indigenous people, with these pathetic outlandish and laughable arguments. lol smh
You are a racist and literally to more you type the dumber and dishonest you look.
Portrait of the Tuareg poetess Dassine Oult Yemma (poems written in a special alphabet, the Tifinagh, which is founded upon the ancient Libyan writing)wearing a characteristic Terouet pendant. 1885 - 1930. Hoggar, Algeria)
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: stop having emotional knee-jerk reactions
LOL it's you with the emotional knee-jerk reactions. Trying discredit indigenous people you don't know jack about. Also looking for excuses, to coverup your hideous lying behavior is your favorite pastime.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Circular concentrations of stone fragments or pebbles occur widely in the Sahara, mostly on the great alluvial plains or along the foot of the escarpments. They are interpreted as fireplaces, but associated archaeological remains are usually scarce. More than 50 radiocarbon dates indicated that these features are of neolithic age, ranging fromca 9000 toca 3500 bp, with a maximum occurrence at 5800–5000 bp. In some regions they are extremely rare, elsewhere their density may exceed 30 per square kilometre. There are several reasons for attributing these fireplaces to neolithic cattle herders.
Palaeoecological evidence from neolithic fireplaces in the Sahara
posted
You should be ashamed of yourself for putting up those disgusting racist pictures of Obama on page one, you are a true low life. I think you should ask those to be removed by Tukuler
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You should be ashamed of yourself for putting up those disgusting racist pictures of Obama on page one, you are a true low life. I think you should ask those to be removed by Tukuler
You should be ashamed of ignoring the history and existence of the "black North Africans". Which you constantly try to battle/ challenge. (Typical Internet hype).
I posted those images so you can see, that your argument is a non-argument. It was you who posted on Obama, while this is about Northwest Africa and the first tribal confederations. So yes, it's beyond stupid. And it was racist republicans who created these images images on President Obama, not me. So don't get it twisted.
posted
"Circular concentrations of stone fragments or pebbles occur widely in the Sahara..."
Hey, they may be 'tent-lip' stones, stones around a tipi or yurt holding down the fabric or skin, especially in windstorms and in sand. Same thing in North America prairies, old tipi rings still found under later layers. They'd re-use them year after year. Later wooden pegs were used more.
Tent-lip = tipi rim/ring, in Aztec called "tentli"
Beduins have square-base tents, but traditional Berbers and early Arabs had round tents, like yurts but with tensional ropes outside (Asian yurts lack external ropes).
Note: Andaman folk had large conical communal huts, largest fit 150 people and 2 dugout canoes,
[linked to Papuan Yali Pygmies "honai" lodge and Sandawe "Sandu"/Xanadu(Mongol) and Sami "goati" conical huts ]
also square sheds with heaths at corners, also lean-to's, but NOT woven dome huts with broadleaf shingling(!). By height, they're Pygmy, but by culture, they're 1/2 Pygmy, 1/2 KhoiSan. They spent 1/2 year in deep rainforest(pigs, fruit, honey), 1/2 year on beaches(sea turtles, dugongs, clams, crabs, fish, cicada grubs).
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: what are you doing, he said "non white" ??
White Berber
That is what is roaming on the Internet as the white Berber, indeed. But that's not the problem. Because Berbers can have and are light complected too. But euronuts exclude the people such as those posted above post, and in this thread.
Hence this elderly woman with baby look exceptional.
I highly highly doubt any indigenous African population was ever any lighter complected than the San. And its always amazed me that slavery is the magic bullet explaining dark people in North Africa (in a continent predominated by dark people) yet pale people are to be taken as native without question (and Barbary and other slave trades that involved white slaves ignored)
Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey: I highly highly doubt any indigenous African population was ever any lighter complected than the San. And its always amazed me that slavery is the magic bullet explaining dark people in North Africa (in a continent predominated by dark people) yet pale people are to be taken as native without question (and Barbary and other slave trades that involved white slaves ignored) [/QB]
why are the San lighter?
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
LOL at that supposed African American woman ^ above, with white obsession. smh The San has been spoken about numerous times on Egypt-Search over the years, yet here is the same question again by the same person. lol
quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: what are you doing, he said "non white" ??
White Berber
That is what is roaming on the Internet as the white Berber, indeed. But that's not the problem. Because Berbers can have and are light complected too. But euronuts exclude the people such as those posted above post, and in this thread.
Hence this elderly woman with baby look exceptional.
I highly highly doubt any indigenous African population was ever any lighter complected than the San. And its always amazed me that slavery is the magic bullet explaining dark people in North Africa (in a continent predominated by dark people) yet pale people are to be taken as native without question (and Barbary and other slave trades that involved white slaves ignored)
Cosigned.
But I do feel light complexion arose in North Africa (based on science, La Brana specimen). Not white as in modern terms, like the people in the picture above. But light complexion as what people consider in modern terms consider light skin black. A historical fact is that the white slaves (and other incoming populations) intermingled with the native population. This has shifted the demography.
See, lioness will demand people to answer to questions, but with it's vice versa it's crickets ...
He (they) doesn't show markers/ traits of the average KEL. IT'S NONSENSE TO TRY TO PASS HIM OFF AS IF THIS IS THE CASE. IT'S JUST ANOTHER LIE ON YOUR BEHALF, A LIE YOU HAVE MAINTAINED FOR 6 YEARS. Eurocentrix always had this tendency of lying and make the indigenous people into something else. Do tell, from what Tuareg sub-group is he (they). lol
The problem is that you try to speak on people's behalf you literally don't know nothing about. You're a trip. Yet, dare to speak on diversionary? lol
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: LOL at that supposed African American woman ^ above, with white obsession. smh The San has been spoken about numerous times on Egypt-Search over the years, yet here is the same question again by the same person. lol
quote:Originally posted by Punos_Rey:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] what are you doing, he said "non white" ??
White Berber
That is what is roaming on the Internet as the white Berber, indeed. But that's not the problem. Because Berbers can have and are light complected too. But euronuts exclude the people such as those posted above post, and in this thread.
Hence this elderly woman with baby look exceptional.
I highly highly doubt any indigenous African population was ever any lighter complected than the San. And its always amazed me that slavery is the magic bullet explaining dark people in North Africa (in a continent predominated by dark people) yet pale people are to be taken as native without question (and Barbary and other slave trades that involved white slaves ignored)
Cosigned.
But I do feel light complexion arose in North Africa (based on science, La Brana specimen). Not white as in modern terms, like the people in the picture above. But light complexion as what people consider in modern terms consider light skin black. A historical fact is that the white slaves (and other incoming populations) intermingled with the native population. This has shifted the demography.
Yet the ancient Mauretanii were described as literally black skinned by the Romans...and Kabyles along the Mediterranean Coast just a few centuries ago were described as ranging from brown to very dark. This could've been reinforced by gene flow from the Sahara/Sahelian regions.
“The Kabyles or Kabaily of Algerian and Tunisian territories…besides tillage, work the mines contained in their mountains…They live in huts made of branches of trees and covered with clay which resemble the Magalia of the old Numidians…They are of middle stature, their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black.” Written in The Encyclopedia Britannica: Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and General Literature Henry G. Allen Company p. 261 Volume I 1890.
Posts: 574 | From: Guinee | Registered: Jul 2014
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posted
I recall Keita in his 1990 "Studies of Crania from Northern Africa" study described ancient Northwest Africans like the Carthaginians as having heterogeneous cranial features---meaning a mix of African, European, and intermediate affinities. That to me paints a mixed population in ancient times. I do not think he included any modern Maghrebi samples for comparison though.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: I recall Keita in his 1990 "Studies of Crania from Northern Africa" study described ancient Northwest Africans like the Carthaginians as having heterogeneous cranial features---meaning a mix of African, European, and intermediate affinities. That to me paints a mixed population in ancient times. I do not think he included any modern Maghrebi samples for comparison though.
That's because Carthage was a mixed society. It wasn't even founded by Africans, but the Phoenicians. And at that that Carthage was only truly densely populated settled area in Northwest Africa.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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They started in the north of rainforest, antelope/yam cultivation Akafula -> (a)ka.bhyle
“The Kabyles or Kabaily of Algerian and Tunisian territories…besides tillage, work the mines contained in their mountains…They live in huts made of branches of trees and covered with clay which resemble the Magalia of the old Numidians…They are of middle stature, their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black.” Written in The Encyclopedia Britannica: Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and General Literature Henry G. Allen Company p. 261 Volume I 1890.
Posts: 2021 | From: Miami | Registered: Aug 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: I recall Keita in his 1990 "Studies of Crania from Northern Africa" study described ancient Northwest Africans like the Carthaginians as having heterogeneous cranial features---meaning a mix of African, European, and intermediate affinities. That to me paints a mixed population in ancient times. I do not think he included any modern Maghrebi samples for comparison though.
That's because Carthage was a mixed society. It wasn't even founded by Africans, but the Phoenicians. And at that that Carthage was only truly densely populated settled area in Northwest Africa.
If it was a mixed society they whould have found segregated samples. As you suggest this is not the case. A supposed mixed/ intermediate type is logic seen from an evolutionary stage.
Hear him out on Phoenicians:
The Battle of Adwa: An interview with Raymond Jonas
They started in the north of rainforest, antelope/yam cultivation Akafula -> (a)ka.bhyle
“The Kabyles or Kabaily of Algerian and Tunisian territories…besides tillage, work the mines contained in their mountains…They live in huts made of branches of trees and covered with clay which resemble the Magalia of the old Numidians…They are of middle stature, their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black.” Written in The Encyclopedia Britannica: Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and General Literature Henry G. Allen Company p. 261 Volume I 1890.
@ Punos_Rey, Exactly.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Nodnarb: I recall Keita in his 1990 "Studies of Crania from Northern Africa" study described ancient Northwest Africans like the Carthaginians as having heterogeneous cranial features---meaning a mix of African, European, and intermediate affinities. That to me paints a mixed population in ancient times. I do not think he included any modern Maghrebi samples for comparison though.
That's because Carthage was a mixed society. It wasn't even founded by Africans, but the Phoenicians. And at that that Carthage was only truly densely populated settled area in Northwest Africa.
If it was a mixed society they whould have found segregated samples. As you suggest this is not the case. A supposed mixed/ intermediate type is logic seen from an evolutionary stage.
Hear him out on Phoenicians:
The Battle of Adwa: An interview with Raymond Jonas
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Phoenicians were rapidly absorbed by the Afri and other nearby coastal Africans for the genesis of Punic Carthaginians, the unilinear reckoning applied by Arabized Berber lineaged N Afrs today accounts for post-3rd generation Carthaginians Lebanese identity and adapted culture.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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E derives from Africa, correct? So, would you say most Tuareg (from North and West Africa) have very little admixture?
Posts: 200 | From: Akahara | Registered: Aug 2012
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a chart of YDNA, yet direct below it is a female who represents mtDNA
I posted so because, E-M81 is the Berber gene, euronut. Do you think she doesn't have anything to do with the biological composition of E-M81, while her father copulated with her mother, which makes the autosomal? Euronut! Always looking for dumb excuses. SMH how dumb are you...? lol
Instead of arguing over stupid stuff, respond to my question.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: There is no such thing as a berber gene. The Siwas don't even carry M81
lol stop your nonsense excuses. I did not come up with the term Berber gene. Siwas are Northeast Berbers relating to Central African Berbers, east. E-M81 is Northwest, also relating to Central African Berbers, west.
Instead of arguing over stupid stuff, respond to my question.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^ you have linked a post with two photos but there is no question on it.
Typical transparent lyingass derail.
Repost of the question, to the lying beast.
"Do tell, from what Tuareg sub-group is he (they). lol "
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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He (they) doesn't show markers/ traits of the average KEL. IT'S NONSENSE TO TRY TO PASS HIM OFF AS IF THIS IS THE CASE. IT'S JUST ANOTHER LIE ON YOUR BEHALF, A LIE YOU HAVE MAINTAINED FOR 6 YEARS. Eurocentrix always had this tendency of lying and make the indigenous people into something else. Do tell, from what Tuareg sub-group is he (they). lol
This guy is a Kel Ahaggar Tuareg, All this stuff you are saying about he " doesn't show markers/ traits of the average KEL" and "trying to pass off" is racist bullshit on your part.
So you can tell by looking he's not a Tuareg. You can tell by looking he is not an M81 carrier. You are racist
Here's another Hoggar berber:
______________________
2010 Aug; 18(8): 915–923. Published online 2010 Mar 17. doi: 10.1038/ejhg.2010.21 PMCID: PMC2987384 Linking the sub-Saharan and West Eurasian gene pools: maternal and paternal heritage of the Tuareg nomads from the African Sahel
Luísa Pereira,1
Y chromosome pool in Tuareg
From the 20 branches of the Y chromosome tree, which could be discriminated by the analyses performed, only 7 were observed in our Tuareg population sample (Supplementary Material SM7). Again, from this perspective of Y chromosome diversity, TTan is closer to sub-Saharan populations than the other two Tuareg populations, presenting 5.6% of the old AB lineages and 44.4% of E1b1a, whereas TGor and TGos have, respectively, 16.7 and 9.1% of E1b1a. Curiously, TTan also presents the highest frequency (33.3%) of West Eurasian R1b lineages whereas TGor presents only 5.6% of lineage K* (xO,P), and TGos presents none. There were no instances of the Eurasian J haplogroup in the Tuareg, which is otherwise frequent in North Africa (an average of 20% see Arredi et al45), and attains the highest frequency in the Middle East (around 50% see Semino et al)46.
The dominant haplogroup in TGor (77.8%) and TGos (81.8%) is E1b1b1b, which has a much lower frequency in TTan (11.1%). This haplogroup reaches a mean frequency of 42% in North Africa, decreasing in frequency from 76% in Morocco to ∼10% in Egypt.45 Arredi et al45 dated this haplogroup in North Africa from 2800 to 9800 YBP, associating its expansion with the Neolithic demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic-speaking pastoralists from the Middle East.
The low level of diversity attained in the Tuareg populations (see Supplementary Material SM8) is consistent with a model of population constancy, although it can also be due in part to the ascertainment bias in the selection of a few Y-SNPs. Haplotype diversities and mean number of pairwise differences were very low in TGor and TGos, being among the lowest values observed in many populations, but TTan showed much higher levels of diversity.
MDS of FST distances based on available Y-SNP West Eurasian and African population data sets shows, as in the case of mtDNA, separation of the West Eurasian-North African and sub-Saharan populations (Figure 4). A certain separation between the Iberian and Near Eastern groups can be explained by the absence of samples from the Central Mediterranean for the Y-NRY data set. However, though the Tuareg groups from the Niger bend (TGor and TGos) belong clearly on the West Eurasian side, the Tuareg from central Niger lean towards sub-Saharan variability.
The mtDNA pool of the Tuareg
A total of 48% of the mtDNA haplotypes observed in the Tuareg populations could be ascribed to sub-Saharan haplogroups. Another 39%, however, were of West Eurasian ancestry (non-L types in Table 1), which is a substantial proportion considering the sub-Saharan geographical location. In fact, it has been observed that in typical North African populations there is a gradient of increasing frequency of West Eurasian lineages ranging from around 50–75% in the northernmost locations.34 The Tuareg's neighbours, however, have a markedly smaller proportion of West Eurasian haplotypes (22% in Western Chad Arabs, 8% in Shuwa Arabs from North-eastern Nigeria, 7% in the Buduma from South-eastern Niger and 6% in the Kanuri from North-eastern Nigeria).35 The remaining 13% of Tuareg haplotypes belong to the typical East African haplogroup M1.
Furthermore, we noticed some differences in the distribution of West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups between Tuareg groups. Most of the West Eurasian haplogroups (30 out of 35 sequences, amounting to 6 out of 9 HVS-I haplotypes) and the East African M1 (11 out of 12 sequences but amounting to only 2 out of 3 HVS-I haplotypes) are observed in the two Tuareg populations – TGos and TGor – located within the bend of the Niger. Tuareg from the Republic of Niger, TTan, have much higher proportion of sub-Saharan (81%) haplogroups than of West Eurasian (16%) and East African (3%) ones. These differences in haplogroup distribution led to statistically significant genetic distances when comparing HVS-I haplotypes between Tuareg from Mali (TGos) with those from the Republic of Niger (TTan) (FST=0.048; unadjusted P-value=0.009), as well as Tuareg from Burkina Faso (TGor) with those from the Republic of Niger (TTan) (FST=0.064; unadjusted P-value=0.000), whereas Tuareg from Mali (TGos) and from Burkina Faso (TGor) are not statistically different (FST=0.012; unadjusted P-value=0.234). Similarly, analysis of MDS based on FST distances and using a large database of West Eurasian and African mtDNA sequences has shown a very good separation of the sub-Saharan and West Eurasian-North African gene pools (Figure 2). Only some East African populations are closer to the West Eurasian samples, respectively, to the North African populations analysed here. This picture is a good representation of FST values as the normalized raw stress is very low (0.01165). However, the analysed Tuareg populations are divided between two gene pools: like the sample from Libya,5 the groups located within the bend of Niger (TGor and TGos) fall into the West Eurasian gene pool, whereas the Tuareg from the Republic of Niger (TTan) and the Tuareg sample from the Watson's data set3, 4 are permeated by the sub-Saharan mtDNA gene pool.
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
"So you can tell by looking he's not a Tuareg. You can tell by looking he is not an M81 carrier. You are racist".
Says the dumb racist hog who knows nothing about the indigenous population. Stop your forsaking racist nonsense. You posting people of Hoggar to me is merely but hilarious. smh
Years ago I had to explain the climate of the Sahara to you. lol
You have posted that "paper" over 15 times. And it was responded to over 15 times as well. This supposed west Eurasian gene pool he speaks of, likely is local to the region. As was posted multiple times before, racist hog. But even if it came from the supposed "Middle East", it still was the same people.lol
But the actual question is still unanswered. What sub group is that man you posted part of? He is very unusual for a supposed Tuareg.
quote: All the haplogroup H mtDNAs found in 5,743 subjects from 43 populations were then screened for diagnostic markers of subhaplogroups H1 and H3. This survey showed that both subhaplogroups display frequency peaks, centered in Iberia and surrounding areas, with distributions declining toward the northeast and southeast—a pattern extremely similar to that previously reported for mtDNA haplogroup V.
Furthermore, the coalescence ages of H1 and H3 (~11,000 years) are close to that previously reported for V. These findings have major implications for the origin of Europeans, since they attest that the Franco-Cantabrian refuge area was indeed the source of late-glacial expansions of hunter-gatherers that repopulated much of Central and Northern Europe from ~15,000 years ago.
[...]
As a result, it is likely that the dissection of H into subhaplogroups of younger age might reveal previously unidentified spatial frequency patterns, which in turn could be correlated to prehistoric and historical migratory events. However, until now, haplogroup H has been only partially resolved genealogically (Herrnstadt et al. 2002) allowing for the identification of 11 subclades (H1–H11) (Quintáns et al. 2004; Loogväli et al. 2004), the phylogeography of which has been evaluated only in rare instances (Tambets et al. 2004). Therefore, the objective of this study is to provide new information concerning the molecular dissection of haplogroup H and to determine whether its subhaplogroups do indeed show such spatial patterns.
To achieve this objective, the first step consisted in the complete sequencing of 62 mtDNAs performed as described by Torroni et al. (2001b). Fifty-four of the mtDNAs that were chosen for complete sequencing harbored −7025 AluI and −14766 MseI, two well-known diagnostic RFLP markers of haplogroup H. In addition, for the choice of these mtDNAs, we also took into account the nature and extent of the sequence variation observed in a preliminary sequence analysis restricted to the control region; the objective being to include the widest possible range of haplogroup H internal variation. The remaining eight mtDNAs were chosen because the RFLP analysis and control-region sequencing had suggested that they belonged to haplogroups that were closely related to H. Thus, their complete sequences would allow the definition of the branching order of the entire superhaplogroup HV.
Figure 1 Most-parsimonious tree of complete (pre-HV)1, HV*, HV1, pre-V, and H mtDNA sequences. The tree, rooted in haplogroup R, includes 62 mtDNAs (1–62) sequenced in this study and illustrates subhaplogroup affiliations. Phylogeny construction was performed ...
Figure 2 Geographical locations of populations surveyed for haplogroup H (top) and its spatial frequency distribution (bottom). Frequency values for populations 1–43 are from table 1, whereas those for populations 44–63 are from the literature, ...
[...]
Finally, to determine whether the haplotype shared by the nine mtDNAs could, by itself, play a role in the expression of the A1555G mutation, we analyzed in detail its shared mutations: A93G, A95C, and T8258C. The first two (93 and 95C) are located in the control region, and their association is sporadically seen in other Eurasian haplogroups but very frequently in some African haplogroups—for example, in L0a, L1c, and L2c (Alves-Silva et al. 2000; Ingman et al. 2000; Mishmar et al. 2003)
--Alessandro Achilli, Chiara Rengo, [...], and Antonio Torroni
The Molecular Dissection of mtDNA Haplogroup H Confirms That the Franco-Cantabrian Glacial Refuge Was a Major Source for the European Gene Pool
The fact that you are saying he is very unusual for a Tuareg show that you are not even considering his "sub group" and do not respect the diversity of the Tuareg culture, it's a culture not a race and don't know what the kel confederations are. You don't know what is unusual for this region, you don't know what you are talking about. Secondly I put up the genetics and you can't deal with that either. So it's time for you to go home
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: The dates for subhaplogroups H1 and H3 (13,000 and 10,000 years, respectively) in Iberian and North African populations allow for this possibility. Kefi et al.’s (2005) data on ancient DNA could be viewed as being in agreement with such a presence in North Africa in ancient times (about 15,000–6,000 years ago) and with the fact that the North African populations are considered by most scholars as having their closest relations with European and Asian populations (Cherni et al. 2008; Ennafaa et al. 2009; Kefi et al. 2005; Rando et al. 1998). However, considering the general understanding nowadays that human settlement of the rest of the world emerged from eastern northern Africa less than 50,000 years ago, a better explanation of these haplogroups might be that their frequencies reflect the original modern human population of these parts of Africa as much as or more than intrusions from outside the continent. The ways that gene frequencies may increase or decrease based on adaptive selection, gene flow, and/or social processes is under study and would benefit from the results of studies on autosomal and Y-chromosome markers.
--Frigi et al
quote: However, the remaining 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.
--María Cerezo (2013) Reconstructing ancient mitochondrial DNA links between Africa and Europe
quote: Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this 'real-time' genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.
--Brotherton P1, Haak W, Templeton J,
Nat Commun. 2013;4:1764. doi: 10.1038/ncomms2656.
Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.
The fact that you are saying he is very unusual for a Tuareg show that you are not even considering his "sub group" and do not respect the diversity of the Tuareg culture, it's a culture nit a race and don't know what the kel confederations are. You don't know what is unusual for this region, you don't know what you are talking about. Secondly I put up the genetics and you can't deal with that either. So it's time for you to go home [/QB]
lol Your genetics is POLITICAL! Basically calling everything found outside of Africa, "Eurasian", for political convenience.
Indigenous people from Hoggar don't look like that dude, racist clown. It's obvious that you hate indigenous African people. Especially of darker complexion. But how the hell will you know, what people from the region on average look like, a clown who did not even know about the Sahara climate. Not for nothing you racist clowns post that mans image all over your forums to support your racist agenda. lol
quote:This site has been called Gobero, after the local Tuareg name for the area. About 10,000 years ago (7700–6200 B.C.E.), Gobero was a much less arid environment than it is now. In fact, it was actually a rather humid lake side hometown of sorts for a group of hunter-fisher-gatherers who not only lived their but also buried their dead there. How do we know they were fishing? Well, remains of large nile perch and harpoons were found dating to this time period.
LOL So where do you think that is going to be? lol
See, after everthing I've posted, it shows your hogwash mentality.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Did you know that the Tuareg enlsave people and have classes on their groups
This is a book about indigenous rights:
Although the above refers Algeria this is why many Malians have issues with the Tuareg. Their nobles are slave masters
Try researching this topic, Tuareg enslaving other people and let us know what your findings are. Similarly the Beidane in Mauritania
Posts: 42920 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Although the above refers Algeria this is why many Malians have issues with the Tuareg. Their nobles are slave masters
Try researching this topic, Tuareg enslaving other people and let us know what your findings are.
Yep, here you go again. "They were slaves". The "black non-Tuaregs". lol
Btw, lol at the searching option you used: "Dag Rali Negro". LOL
Try European slaves in North Africa in genetic studies. lol
Whites enslaved other whites, nowhere it's that big of a deal.
Ironically the Tuareg have root deep within Africa, and other African ethnic groups such as the Beja, all over the Sahara and Sahel, for thousands upon thousands of years. And how the language and culture arose from the South. Yet, for some funny reason, Tuaregs are now whites from Eurasia enslaving the black African, the "non-Tuareg". Although the average Tuareg is black. lol
Does your European "author" speak of that as well? lol Howcome the author doesn't speak of European slaves in North Africa, or invasion of the Ottoman? Humm...lol
So, according to that "European"/ white author the following people are descents of slaves. Although evidence shows that Tuareg originated from the South. As will be shown in the following post. lol
posted
Repost, for Jeremy Keenan, and the imposter "African American black woman" called lioness. LOL
See how lioness "the supposed African American woman" always and repeatedly ignores this, again. lol
quote:This site has been called Gobero, after the local Tuareg name for the area. About 10,000 years ago (7700–6200 B.C.E.), Gobero was a much less arid environment than it is now. In fact, it was actually a rather humid lake side hometown of sorts for a group of hunter-fisher-gatherers who not only lived their but also buried their dead there. How do we know they were fishing? Well, remains of large nile perch and harpoons were found dating to this time period.
quote:Our results reveal that Berber speakers have a foundational biogeographic root in Africa and that deep African lineages have continued to evolve in supra- Saharan Africa.
Forensic reconstruction Resin, University of Chicago and Project Exploration
Figure 6. Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Ghat or Gat (both: gät) [key], walled town, SW Libya, in an oasis in the Sahara, near the Algerian border. It formerly was an important caravan center. Ghat was captured by the Ottoman Turks in 1875, by the Italians in 1930, and by the French in 1943, during World War II.
quote: A Brief History of the Ottoman Empire in Algeria
Features
With the Regency of Algiers as its principal center, the Ottoman Empire ruled an area referred to as Ottoman Algeria in the Maghreb between 1525 and the French invasion of Algiers in 1830. The Regency of Algiers was established by Ottoman Turkish admiral Hayreddin Barbarossa in around 1525 when he captured the city of Algiers which soon became the base from which the Ottoman Empire attacked European shipping in the Mediterranean in acts of piracy. In capturing Algiers, the Ottoman Empire drove out the Hafsid and Zianid dynasties, as well as any Spanish forces in the North African region under its control.
The Spanish had considerable influence along the North African coastline from 1496 until the privateer brothers Aruj and Khair ad Din, or Barbarossa (Red Beard) made their presence known when moving their base of operations from Tunisia to Algiers which they captured in 1516. Aruj lost his life during his invasion of Tlemcen in 1518, whereupon Barbarossa became military commander of Algiers. Barbarossa made a deal with the Ottomans that in exchange for their assistance in fighting the Spanish, his dominions would be acknowledged as being under Ottoman authority. However, in 1519 the Spanish retook Algiers before Ottoman troops arrived to assist Barbarossa, who in turn recaptured the city in 1525. Barbarossa took possession of the Peñón of Algiers - the small island off the coast of Algiers under Spanish rule at the time – in 1529, where he dismantled the Spanish fortifications built on the island.
With 2,000 Turkish troops and artillery supplied by the Ottomans, Algiers became the base of military operations against Spain and Morocco. The Ottoman Empire secured their presence in the Maghreb with an administration in Algiers under appointed Pashas, or governors, with three-year terms of office. At this time the main source of revenue for the Regency of Algiers was from piracy, with Catholic shipping being the main target and the Christians captured being sold as slaves. The continued piracy on European, and later American, ships led to repeated attacks on Algiers by Spain, Denmark, France and England, with the invasion by the French in 1830 eventually bringing the Ottoman rule of Algiers to an end. The French ruled for 132 years before Algeria gained independence in 1962.
quote:" ...in the old sources the terms Berber, Sanhaja, Massufa, Lamtuna and Tuareg are often used interchangeably"
--Marq de Villiers and Sheila Hirtle ( 2009). Timbuktu: The Sahara's Fabled city of Gold, p. 271.
quote:Some of the worst enemies of the Tuareg people are Westerners who make their livelihood by spreading fear and hatred for an entire population that they do not know. Several days ago, USA Today published an article [1] by a young American reporter who wrote that “Tuaregs have long kept slaves,” and implied that Tuaregs are still “taking slaves” today and holding them captive. This is incorrect. The Tuaregs do not own slaves today, and do not capture people or hold them as slaves. The reporter based her article largely on propaganda she heard from one individual in southern Mali.
The key to understanding why people in southern Mali are spreading such propaganda is contained in the USA Today writer’s own observation: “Human Rights Watch said the Malian army and black African civilians are holding all Tuaregs and Arabs responsible for the recent months of terror and human rights abuses, whether or not they participated in the crimes.” In order to report truthfully on the situation in Mali, the writer should have taken her cue from the fact that the Bamako government, the Malian army, and various people in the south are vilifying “all Tuaregs,” who live mainly in the north.
[...]
-- Prof. Barbara A. Worley, The University of Massachusetts
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