posted
Again. The elephant in the room. We have Oceanian Haplogroup C in Africa. West Africa. Less than 10%...but still present in West Africa!!! Again we are back to Mende? And it looks like East Africa also..Tanzania?
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I suspected they are hiding data....or studies. I have never seen any study showing C in Africa. I have seen DE in Nigeria but C....?
They are definitely holding out!!!!
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So Nat Geo finds haplogroup C and doesn't trace the branch to see if its near the base or maybe they did and that is why they didn't add a back migration arrow. If its basalish I would assume it originated in Africa. If its down stream from west Asia you would have evidence of a back migration. If its downstream form North America I would lean toward precolumbian contact. Its the same with mtDNA N.
Some old school Atlantic travel. Olmecs and Tichitt?
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That is right. They need to confirm if it is at the base
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Most of the mutations here analyzed belong to the African portion of the MSY phylogeny, which is comprised of haplogroups A1b, A1a, A2, A3 and B [16]. Through phylogenetic mapping it was possible to identify 15 new African haplogroups and to resolve one basal trifurcation (Figure 1). A new deep branch within the ‘‘out of Africa’’ haplogroup C was also identified (Figure S1).
Haplogroup A1b. The P114 mutation, which defines haplogroup A1b according to Karafet et al. [14], had been detected in central-western Africa at very low frequencies (in total, three chromosomes from Cameroon) [16,19].
[...]
‘‘Out of Africa’’ haplogroups. All Y-clades that are not exclusively African belong to the macro-haplogroup CT, which is defined by mutations M168, M294 and P9.1 [14,31] and is subdivided into two major clades, DE and CF [1,14]. In a recent study [16], sequencing of two chromosomes belonging to haplogroups C and R, led to the identification of 25 new mutations, eleven of which were in the C-chromosome and seven in the R-chromosome. Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (sample 33 in Table S1), and positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT (Figure 1 and Figure S1). Six haplogroup C chromosomes (samples 34–39 in Table S1) were analyzed for the eleven haplogroup C- specific mutations [16] and for SNPs defining branches C1 to C6 in the tree by Karafet et al. [14] (Figure S1). Through this analysis we identified a chromosome from southern Europe as a new deep branch within haplogroup C (C-V20 or C7, Figure S1). Previously, only a few examples of C chromosomes (only defined by the marker RPS4Y711) had been found in southern Europe [32,33]. To improve our knowledge regarding the distribution of haplogroup C in Europe, we surveyed 1965 European subjects for the mutation RPS4Y711 and identified one additional haplogroup C chromosome from southern Europe, which has also been classified as C7 (data not shown). Further studies are needed to establish whether C7 chromosomes are the relics of an ancient European gene pool or the signal of a recent geographical spread from Asia. Two mutations, V248 and V87, which had never been previously described, were found to be specific to haplogroups C2 and C3, respectively (Figure S1). Three of the seven R-specific mutations (V45, V69 and V88) were previously mapped within haplogroup R [34], whereas the remaining four mutations have been here positioned at the root of haplogroups F (V186 and V205), K (V104) and P (V231) (Figure S1) through the analysis of 12 haplogroup F samples (samples 40–51, in Table S1).
[...]
Supporting Information
Figure S1 Structure of the macro-haplogroup CT. For details on mutations see legend to Figure 1. Dashed lines indicate putative branchings (no positive control available). The position of V248 (haplogroup C2) and V87 (haplogroup C3) compared to mutations that define internal branches was not determined. Note that mutations V45, V69 and V88 have been previously mapped (Cruciani et al. 2010; Eur J Hum Genet 18:800–807).
--Fulvio Cruciani et al.
Molecular Dissection of the Basal Clades in the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree
Also,
quote:"haplogroup CF and DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations that successfully colonized Asia. While not proof, the DE and CF bifurcation (Figure 8d ) is consistent with independent colonization impulses possibly occurring in a short time interval."
--Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild - 2007
Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations
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posted
Niiice Ish!!! I forgot about this paper. Re-Reading it now. Getting down on yDNA C in Africa!
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With Italy having so many deep clades I would tend to agree. Keeping in mind, IIRC, La Brana was yDNA C. Oceanian?
Abstract One hundred and forty-six previously detected mutations were more precisely positioned in the human Y chromosome phylogeny by the analysis of 51 representative Y chromosome haplogroups and the use of 59 mutations from literature. Twenty-two new mutations were also described and incorporated in the revised phylogeny. This analysis made it possible to identify new haplogroups and to resolve a deep trifurcation within haplogroup B2. Our data provide a highly resolved branching in the African-specific portion of the Y tree and support the hypothesis of an origin in the **north-western** quadrant of the African continent for the human MSY diversity.
Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (******sample 33 ******in Table S1), and positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT (Figure 1 and Figure S1).
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posted
WoooWW!! Always good to re-read these papers every few years. Sometimes we miss things...like this...Do you know the DE sample is ...South African? In my Table. Wow. More proof that the bridge to Oceania may have been across the Indian Oceanian. I have downloaded some papers on Malagasy and preparing to post on these Tribal groups in Madagascar. I did not know that Madagascar has many "different" human configuration but all speak the same language. I did not know that there was a raging debate back in the 1800s-early 1900's that these Malagasy "negros" were not Africans but Oceanians. I was shocked. The lies we were told. Where did these Europeans come up with Indonesians canoeing 4000miles to Africa??!!?....GTFOH!! lol! In fact reading these old papers Many authors at the time did NOT believe that BS hypothesis. I am not the only one. I will post when I have time.
Anyways back on topic Quote: ‘‘Out of Africa’’ haplogroups. All Y-clades that are not exclusively African belong to the macro-haplogroup CT, which is defined by mutations M168, M294 and P9.1 [14,31] and is subdivided into two major clades, DE and CF [1,14]. In a recent study [16], sequencing of two chromosomes belonging to haplogroups C and R, led to the identification of 25 new mutations, eleven of which were in the C-chromosome and seven in the R-chromosome. Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (******sample 33 ******in Table S1), and ***positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT ***(Figure 1 and Figure S1). Six haplogroup C chromosomes (samples 34–39 in Table S1) were analyzed for the eleven haplogroup C specific mutations [16] and for SNPs defining branches C1 to C6"
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posted
National Geographic has a shit ton of unpublished data collected by Spencer wells when he went around the planet studying the Y-chromosome. The movie can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_xTG6VXlIQ
He collected the data in the early 2000's. This was prior to the many consumer dna testing companies that you see today. This data was only LATER used in their Nat Geo Genographic DNA product you see today. Therefore many of the maps you see are only according to published data in addition to their own personal data that is unpublished.
If someone where is good in photo manipulation.....I have dozens of Heat maps of all of their different Y-dna and Mtdna. The Heatmaps (orange) are one image. The Globe Map (in Blue) are a separate background image and the heatmap must be overlayed transparent onto the background image giving you the combined image you see above.
If anyone is interesting in putting all the data together I can put it on a file share and grant you access. Just Reply.....and dont waste everyones time, If you dont know how to do it...the data is nearly meaningless just looking at it. Optimally you want a program where you can add 100's of images IN BULK and individually onto ONE static background image with certain alignment parameters so the heatmaps sync with the actual map image.
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So....if I understand the hypothesis correctly ......Indonesian women took their 4ft Canoes, loaded it with plants and animals and decided to travel 4000miles of open Ocean to get some black love and hook up with black men. HA! HA! HA! Lol! Only Europeans can come up with such a nonsensical hypothesis. And only stupid black people would believe it.
------------------- Quote Genomic landscape of human diversity across Madagascar - Denis Pierrona
"Overall, Y chromosome lineages of African origin are much more frequent in Madagascar than are lineages of East Asian origin (70.7 vs. 20.7%), in contrast to the mtDNA lineages (42.4 African origin vs. 50.1% East Asian origin) (Fig. 2B and Fig. S1). Other Y chromosome lineages with uncertain origins are also present; some of these (R1a, J2, T1, G2) are also present in the Middle East and may reflect the Muslim influence on Madagascar and the Comoros (23, 24). Haplogroup R1b, characteristic of western Europeans, is present in low frequency (0.9%), suggesting a limited paternal contribution from western Europeans." ---------------------
I would like to get my hands on the dataset to look at the R1a and R1b and T1(Ethiopian?). What do you think ElMaestro? Where is the dataset? I couldn't find it. It went Vuuusssh!!! Gone!
edit: So it was "NOT" Indonesian men making the trip it was Indonesian women!!! SMH! WT....F!
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That reminds me About the discussion I had with Cass/Dead before the paper on Malawi -Hora was fully published. There was speculation about Hora was a Caucasian and carried Caucasian DNA. Then he brought up or I brought up another paper he was supposed to dig up for me. The paper was titled about an ancient "Chinese" man found South Africa....So there you have it. It is all coming together now.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [Q] May be the “bone” guys can help me out here also. I am now getting into this. Looks like, The idea I have of an ancient connection (or land mass) between Southern Africa and Asia is not new. I am trying to get my hands on these papers..
DD’Eden, anyone. • Dart, R. A. (1952). "A Hottentot from Hong Kong: pre-Bantu population exchanges between Asia and Africa". South African Journal of Medical Sciences. 17. pp. 117–42. • Dart, R. A. (1955). "Foreign Influences of the Zimbabwe and Pre-Zimbabwe eras". N []
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: [QB] National Geographic has a shit ton of unpublished data collected by Spencer wells when he went around the planet studying the Y-chromosome. The movie can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_xTG6VXlIQ
He collected the data in the early 2000's. This was prior to the many consumer dna testing companies that you see today. This data was only LATER used in their Nat Geo Genographic DNA product you see today. Therefore many of the maps you see are only according to published data in addition to their own personal data that is unpublished.
If someone where is good in photo manipulation.....I have dozens of Heat maps of all of their different Y-dna and Mtdna. The Heatmaps (orange) are one image. The Globe Map (in Blue) are a separate background image and the heatmap must be overlayed transparent onto the background image giving you the combined image you see above.
If anyone is interesting in putting all the data together I can put it on a file share and grant you access. Just Reply.....and dont waste everyones time, If you dont know how to do it...the data is nearly meaningless just looking at it. Optimally you want a program where you can add 100's of images IN BULK and individually onto ONE static background image with certain alignment parameters so the heatmaps sync with the actual map image.
I don't know if my photoshop skills are capable of all of that. I would like to see all of them to help create something simpler.
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posted
^He said hit him up...I am curious to see it also.
Anyways.. Europeans in total confusion....What does this remind you of? Pagani! Stating "Eurasian" Elements were in West Africa BEFORE East Africa!!
Quote: ------- RAYMOND A. DART-Recent Discoveries Supplemented the accumulating skeletal information and have rendered possible such a general Survey of peoples living on the African continent I put forward in " Racial Origins" (1937B). I showed that the Bantu are constituted from a Bush and Negro matrix, but that before they fused, the Bush race had already been infiltrated with Brown (Mediterranean racial elements and the Negro with Nordic elements. Further, for the last thousand years or more , Asiatics of both Armenoid and Mongoloid character have been absorbed into the racial complexity which confront us in the modern African population.
More recently in order to understand how and when a Nordic element could have passed across the Sahara belt and fused with the Negro stock** prior to** its pouring down the eastern half of Africa to form our modern Bantu, I have analysed the available records of crania ranging over the last seven millennia and excavated in the Nile valley. It seemed that such an extensive southward Nordic migrations I had postulated could not have occurred without affecting the population of Egypt in some obvious fashion. In point of fact I have discovered sufficient anatomical evidence to indicate not one, but at least four such south-eastward movements of principally Nordic peoples into the Egyptian valley, and to demonstrate that they occurred rhythmically at intervals of approximately two thousand years onwards from the time of the Last Ice Age. -------------
Yes! Europeans are all confused.
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posted
There you have it…..Since the 1800s some Europeans had acknowledge the fact that Europeans are a subset of Africans. I am surprised you “experts” on Anthropology hadn’t posted on Dart.
McEvoy and Dart. Genetics and Anthropology
Dart
McEvoy Quote
“While the exact bias is difficult to estimate (Sved et al. 2008), it appears that post-divergence migration rates from Africa to Europe would need to be approximately CONSTANT because we observe consistent ratios of TF and TLD at different genetic distances. Thus, the observations are suggestive that GREATER MIGRATION TO EUROPE FROM SUB-SAHARAN AFRICAN HAS BEEN A LONG-TERM PHENOMENON. Y-chromosome and mtDNA lineages are generally highly differentiated between continents, making them powerful genetic markers of intercontinental migration. Most of the lineages that are characteristic of sub-Saharan Africa are absent in Europe (and vice versa) (Cavalli-Sforza and Feldman 2003; Underhill and Kivisild 2007). However, the coalescent time and geographic distribution of the Y-chromosome E3b (E-M215) haplogroup points to a late Pleistocene migration from Eastern Africa to Western Eurasia via the Nile Valley and Sinai Peninsula ;20–25 KYA (Cruciani et al. 2004, 2007; Luis et al. 2004). “
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@Sage....?? This may explain some of the "shorty" alleles found in the Amarnas!!
Where am I going with this? We need to do our own independent data analysis. We have seen that the Mainstream media and publications have a concerted effort to lie and deceive the novice reader. Some researchers have broken rank. Dart, Sergi, McEvoy, Arnaiz-Villens etc...... Some have been ridicule …but modern genetics is proven them to be right all along.
Will modern genetics make liars of historians? So far it has done a great job.
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posted
DD’Eden, anyone. • Dart, R. A. (1952). "A Hottentot from Hong Kong: pre-Bantu population exchanges between Asia and Africa". South African Journal of Medical Sciences. 17. pp. 117–42.
Not sure what xyyman is claiming, but Admiral Cheng Ho brought his Chinese fleet to Kenya and some Chinese were left there, I would expect he brought some natives back to China. What is the Hottentot dated at?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
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posted
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @Sage....?? This may explain some of the "Shorty" alleles found in the Amarnas!! .
OK Mensamind, please expand.
I haven't really looked into it. Just assumed it was from "Dancer of the God" officiants. Somewhat similar to but not at all like the case of Nabo & queen Marie-Thérčsa.
@DD East Africans traveled to China on their own too. The Sung Shi mentions two visits by an ambassador Zengjiani of Zenjistan 200 years before Marco Polo.
posted
If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @Sage....?? This may explain some of the "Shorty" alleles found in the Amarnas!! .
OK Mensamind, please expand.
I haven't really looked into it. Just assumed it was from "Dancer of the God" officiants. Somewhat similar to but not at all like the case of Nabo & queen Marie-Thérčsa.
@DD East Africans traveled to China on their own too. The Sung Shi mentions two visits by an ambassador Zengjiani of Zenjistan 200 years before Marco Polo.
Zang@Persian: black ~ zanj@Arb Zanz.ibar = black.coast
Yes, there were long distance travels by many traders etc. by then. I wasn't sure if Xyyman meant far earlier.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
If so, IMO there might have been small nomadic H&G groups. Both were in the Rift valley, Mbuti dialect was spoken in the southern mountains by 'pygmoids'.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants?
4' no, 24' or 40' maybe. Men may have been killed off? Huricane during monsoon? By then much sailing was done, but Madagascar wasn't near the usual coastal route.
Uganda swamp had banana phytoliths from Malaya 4ka, long before Malagasy est'd.
You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
Dart was early Paleoanthropologist. To me, no doubt at all, no sailboats then, just coracles/dome shields/shelters.
Note: possibly the Hottentot brought there ridgeback hunting dogs from Africa. If so, then the Phu Quoc Island ridgeback dog was not indigenous to Vietnam/Cambodia, which would demolish my hypothesis the dog domestication began there and moved west & north. But it is possible the dogs were taken from there by Chinese fleet to Africa instead.
posted
We know the domestication of Dogs took place in Africa.....This has been cited many times over the last few months
How quickly we forget...
"men may have been killed off"....SMH
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
Wikipedia reports that A3b2 is 3% of modern Egypt and LO is looks like 5%.
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quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: DD’Eden, anyone. • Dart, R. A. (1952). "A Hottentot from Hong Kong: pre-Bantu population exchanges between Asia and Africa". South African Journal of Medical Sciences. 17. pp. 117–42.
Not sure what xyyman is claiming, but Admiral Cheng hed Ho brought his Chinese fleet to Kenya and some Chinese were left there, I would expect he brought some natives back to China. What is the Hottentot dated at?
Such thing like generations can be measured and traced back by TMCA.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
Wikipedia reports that A3b2 is 3% of modern Egypt and LO is looks like 5%.
Fourty2 tribes, I'm not a geneticist, what populations are high in A3b2 & LO? Mbuti & San?
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
Wikipedia reports that A3b2 is 3% of modern Egypt and LO is looks like 5%.
Perhaps this comes at handy:
ancient DNA results from Kush and the Tasian site of Kadruka (precusor to Badarian/Naqada):
From Genetic Patterns of Y-chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Variation, with Implications to the Peopling of the Sudan (Hassan 2009)
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posted
@DD M13 is yDNA A. So what Ish is showing you is that the KhoiSan/MButi Haplgroup has been in AE since the Neolithic in fact it is the predominant yDNA since the Neolithic with the only other showing being YAP either E1b1b or E1b1a or something similar.
To Sage's question, this is agreement Amarna analysis. With certain genetic material pre-dominant in Khoi_San and Mbuti being present the Amarnas. That is why the brown component is so high in Somalis and Southern African looking at the Abusir mummies.
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xyyman, see this, sent me in response to your note
"Perhaps the most bizarre of Dart’s typological papers discussing Khoekhoe individuals was the one published in 1952 entitled A Hottentot from Hong Kong in which he compared African archaeological skeletons to skeletons of south Chinese individuals excavated from the old mine compounds of Johannesburg."
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posted
The branch of LO, LOa that overlaps Egypt is frequent with Mbuti and Biaka. Wiki has an write up on M13/A3b2. I might add the Neolithic Sudan to it.
A-M31 The subclade A-M31 has been found in approximately 2.8% (8/282) of a pool of seven samples of various ethnic groups in Guinea-Bissau, especially among the Papel-Manjaco-Mancanha (5/64 = 7.8%).[17] An earlier study, Gonçalves et al. 2003, reported finding A-M31 in 5.1% (14/276) of a sample from Guinea-Bissau and in 0.5% (1/201) of a pair of samples from Cabo Verde.[23] The authors of another study have reported finding haplogroup A-M31 in 5% (2/39) of a sample of Mandinka from Senegambia and 2% (1/55) of a sample of Dogon from Mali.[5] Haplogroup A-M31 also has been found in 3% (2/64) of a sample of Berbers from Morocco[6] and 2.3% (1/44) of a sample of unspecified ethnic affiliation from Mali.[10]
They were also among Beyoko's 42 leaked OK A-M13 L3f Ok A-M13 L0a1 OK B-M150 L3d OK E-M2 L3e5 OK E-M2 L2a1 OK E-M123 L5a1 OK E-M35 R0a OK E-M41 L2a1 OK E-M41 L1b1a OK E-M75 M1 OK E-M78 L4b OK J-M267 L3i OK R-M173 L2 OK T-M184 L0a
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Like I said, I never looked into Mbuti or Click speakers as far as the prehistoric Lower Nile Valley goes. So I appreciate the lesson you all are teaching me.
'STR'ing the Amarna's revealed some Mbuti and Biaka Shorty predominant alleles. There were alleles shared between Amarnas and San but pretty much pan-African.
That informed layman K4-13 STRUCTURE graph indicated a San component in Natufians but it had no Shorty samples.
I'd like to look into this brown you're talking about. Please cite. Thx.
posted
Brown component? This was discussed many times over.
While they had us focusing on the “red” component(which is not really YRI because it is found outside of Africa prior to the Abusir period) and we overlooked the brown. Notice the brown component is found in Palestinians but it is really an East African component found in indigenous South Africans also including Sandwe and Ethiopian Jews and Somalis. In fact Iberians carry a lower frequency. It has higher frequency in Makrani than Iberians. This brown component has highest frequency in Bediouns. Note also it is the largest of the three components found in Abusirs.
It is also found in Mota, Makrani and Neolithic Levant. Understand the significance???!!!
Remember Makrani of the Indus Valley. Are we talking IVC?
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That brown Abusir component is non-existent in the Basque, but present in the Canary Islanders(ancient), not present in Northern Europeans but neither in modern French and English. Understand how these Europeans play games and try to deceive us.
So they spin the “Abusir is less sub-saharan” they mean the British, French and Nordics are also included But Mota, Makrani and the entire Eastern portion of the Africa are related to the Abusirs unlike the Nordics and French and British and Basque. Lol! They can’t keep a straight face when they lie. SMH!
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Tukuler
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posted
Y invite me then make it hard to pitch in?
Can you just please tell me where to find the STRUCTURE you're referencing please, that's if u wanme 2 cents pon it. I don't have it handy and I ain't a go fishin'.
Here. U may like this 118 yr old ol skool anthro hipped us to Gulfer blacks backinnadays
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posted
I know these older anthropology classification are half bs but how could they determine the guy on the left was mixed?
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Tukuler
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posted
Please don't take this personally or take it the wrong way please.
Modern genetic studies are vindicating what the Early Black Scholars handed down to black people who accept building upper stories. Of course there's those prefer ignoring them and digging their own individual foundations starting all the way back to Square One Basement while other peoples progress from generation to generation building their skyscrapers from floor to floor.
Make no mistake those ol skool anthros were colonial European in worldview. Our task is to separate baby from dirt from bathwater from tub, retaining the tub, drawing fresh bathwater as needed, and getting the dirt off the next baby (repeat ad infinitum).
In other words me myself couldn't give a rats rear end why Deniker says admixed. That's his biz. I see a Makrani black indigenous to the Gulf, period. He no doubt on my part has goodly amounts of that STRUCTURE brown Xyyman's talkin' 'bout. Maybe one day he'll gimme that reference so I can do a redux or two on it. HINT Mensa HINT get a clue and come on through.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Y invite me then make it hard to pitch in?
Can you just please tell me where to find the STRUCTURE you're referencing please, that's if u wanme 2 cents pon it. I don't have it handy and I ain't a go fishin
Skip right to the SUPP that has the mass of data and all populations in ADMIXTURE.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
This was the Anu people.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: If I am undersatnding Dart correctly...he is stating that Khoi-San/MButi types people existed in pre-dynastic Egypt.
@DD What do you think? Indonesian women navigated to Africa in 4ft Canoes bringing the animals and plants? You know that R. Dart agrees with your view that Pygmies migrated from Africa to Asia keeping to a tropical belt?
This was the Anu people.
Dr. Winters, I generally accept your hypotheses as possible or plausible, but I have already shown that the "Anu proto-pygmies" has no evidential reality.
The Paleo-Pygmies that kept to the tropical rainforest belt did not wear woven clothing but perhaps pounded bark loincloths, did not construct square houses on square lots, rather dome huts in round camps, did not herd grazing sheep or other animals in the open but drove forest prey into traps/nets.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: xyyman, tukuler: 'Onge' of Andamans is 100% brown in table, or is that a different color?
I did one redux weighted by majority and plurality brown, will post soon enough.
Yes, the Onge brown is NOT the same brown that shows up to ~98% in the Natufians. Zooming the STRUCTURE @ 6400% in Adobe and looking at Mota Man you can see the 2 browns. And in a few other pops you can see other colors between the 2 browns.
posted
co-signed. Onge is a different brown. I believe this was discussed before in that other thread. That is why I have the question mark over Onge
Interestingly, Mota has BOTH shades of brown. Mota is 4000year old is sub-saharan Africa to the East.......
Also Makrani has BOTH Shades of brown in trace amounts but the stunner is that Makrani has the larger portion of blue and large portion of pink!! Significance? Makrani although "Negros" are NOT RECENT Africans, they are Neolithic. That are NOT related to extant East Africans. They may be part of the Neolithic package that migrated to the Harrapan Valley
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Unless there's a 3rd Brown then Onge Brown is in these three individual ancient samples • 5% Armenian Chalcolithic • 12% Armenian Middle late bronze • 8% Europe Late Ballers
And oh my stars and garters Is that Chipewa (AmerInd) Pink in one Natufian? No, not the Natufian with both browns.
I'm labeling that Natufian brown component Erythrea, where I think it originated then moved into the Levant as the African element of the Natufians and persists even in diasporic 'Jewish' populations at higher frequencies than in their hosts.
The Makrani samples show Volta-Niger (Yoruba) Red and Erythrea Brown substrata. Volta-Niger is miniscule in the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer so is at least that old. But I think it could've layered Baluchistan around Late Neolithic/'Chalcolithic' since it peppers other continents that era.
posted
So how do you discribe these in between African populations that still exist for people how have no idea of them? Unlike other dark skin groups who maybe older these Neolithic people are interesting because of their in between status.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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posted
Also interesting is that the light blue component is found at 60% in Makrani. This frequency is shared with Adygei and Kalash. Two populations that is an anomaly in "Asia". Makrani has pink component also.
Makrani are NOT SSA slaves!!!
Keep in mind this is a "supervised" Cluster Chart! Meaning the SNPs were deliberately chosen by the researchers but nevertheless the information obtained is fascinating.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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and LO is 
looks like 5%.
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